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Fewer than half of Brits support retaining the monarchy – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,956
    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Telegraph reporting Reeves might raise income tax and cut a corresponding amount from employees NI.

    That seems more plausible to me than a straightforward rise.

    Interesting if it's a straight fiscal swap or not. Cutting NICs by 3ppt and raising Income Tax by 3ppt sounds fair but would actually increase revenues.
    Pensioners would not be happy, they pay income tax but not NI (maybe they should pay both but they don't now) so would be a clear tax rise for pensioners.

    After the winter fuel debacle I suggest Starmer and Reeves avoid Skegness, Bexhill, Eastbourne etc unless they want to be pelted with rotten fruit
    Separate IT tax rate for basic rate pensioners, held at the current level.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,163
    edited October 29
    Income tax rate would rise at all levels, additional rate tax set to increase to 47% from 45% for the highest earners so would be at its highest level since Brown was PM
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/10/29/keir-starmer-opens-door-to-income-tax-increase/
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,550
    I'm really hoping I'm free of MS Teams tomorrow....
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,575

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    Mail...

    Chancellor Rachel Reeves has admitted to breaking housing regulations after unlawfully renting out her family home for £3,200 a month without a licence after moving in to No 11. She has tonight referred herself to the Independent Ethics Adviser

    https://x.com/HarriLine/status/1983625152819818749

    Why would she need a licence to rent out a property?
    Its in the article linked,

    Southwark Council, the local authority, requires that private landlords in certain areas - including where her house is located - obtain a ‘selective’ licence to rent out their property. But tonight she admitted that she was unaware of the licencing requirement and, following inquiries by the Mail, applied for the licence.

    This has applied to most private residential properties rented to single families or unrelated tenants in the borough, since November 2023.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15239797/Rachel-Reeves-broke-law-renting-family-home-Downing-Street.html
    Surely her agency must have told her? Or is she renting without an agency to a family friend?
    ‘Since becoming Chancellor Rachel Reeves has rented out her family home through a lettings agency.'

    She claims nobody from the agency told her.
    If the agency can prove they did tell her she's deep in the mire. If not, I reckon she'll be ok.
    Southwark can apparently force her to pay back the rent to the tenant. Or fine her up to £30k.

    Or just say “oops it was an oversight, file the paperwork and we’ll let you off”

    I wonder which option the Labour controlled council will select for the Labour chancellor who has the ability to allocate or withhold central government grants to Southwark council
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,806
    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Telegraph reporting Reeves might raise income tax and cut a corresponding amount from employees NI.

    That seems more plausible to me than a straightforward rise.

    Interesting if it's a straight fiscal swap or not. Cutting NICs by 3ppt and raising Income Tax by 3ppt sounds fair but would actually increase revenues.
    Pensioners would not be happy, they pay income tax but not NI (maybe they should pay both but they don't now) so would be a clear tax rise for pensioners.

    After the winter fuel debacle I suggest Starmer and Reeves avoid Skegness, Bexhill, Eastbourne etc unless they want to be pelted with rotten fruit
    A good move but come the GE it will be "Labour increased Income tax by 3%" no one will mention the NI reduction.

    They'll need to shut Janet Street Porter in a sound-proof room for everyone's safety!!!
    They should livestream Rachel Reeves telling her first to give everyone a laugh.

    Note: this will also hit outside IR35 consultants

    Did this comparison yesterday, which explains the issue caused by demographics, longer life expectancy, etc
    Your reminder that pensions are paid from current tax receipts. All £s in 2025 values
    Year In Work (m) State Pensioners (m) Workers/Pensioner State Pension (2025 £) Cost/worker (£)
    2025 34.2 13.1 2.69 11973 4583
    2000 27.5 11.5 2.39 6709 2807
    1975 24.9 8.0 3.13 4712 1507

    https://adviser.royallondon.com/technical-central/rates-and-factors/state-pension/
    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator
    ONS for in work, no of state pensioners is from google, doesn't seem to be regularly recorded by ONS

    Far from perfect, but shows the trend
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,625
    eek said:


    nico67 said:

    Telegraph reporting Reeves might raise income tax and cut a corresponding amount from employees NI.

    That seems more plausible to me than a straightforward rise.

    That at least mitigates the furore over breaking a manifesto pledge .
    This was floated at least a month ago - how is it now a massive Telegraph story???

    They've got to post something every day - repeating a story from a month ago is fine provided their readers have forgotten about it.

    See the Daily Express and its loop between a bad winter, Princess Di and Brexit...
    "Have the papers arrived yet Faulty?"
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,189
    edited October 29
    OTOH they have saved so much time cumulatively over the years - decades, now - that Westminster must be weeks behind. Holyrood can easily afford the odd few hours.

    Though they ought to devise the voting equivalent of cash, with pen and paper, and a way of doing the recording, as a backup.

    Edit: I recommend tokens with names on them, put in locked jars, and decanted later to record who did what.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,189
    HYUFD said:

    Income tax rate would rise at all levels, additional rate tax set to increase to 47% from 45% for the highest earners so would be at its highest level since Brown was PM
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/10/29/keir-starmer-opens-door-to-income-tax-increase/

    Fairy stories from the DT. Are you sure you're grown up? Can you cope without a teddy and a nightlight?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,189
    ohnotnow said:


    nico67 said:

    Telegraph reporting Reeves might raise income tax and cut a corresponding amount from employees NI.

    That seems more plausible to me than a straightforward rise.

    That at least mitigates the furore over breaking a manifesto pledge .
    This was floated at least a month ago - how is it now a massive Telegraph story???

    School holidays and the work experience students are running the place?

    Admittedly, hard to tell the difference between them and the regulars.
    Work experience AIs surely.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,692

    nico67 said:

    Telegraph reporting Reeves might raise income tax and cut a corresponding amount from employees NI.

    That seems more plausible to me than a straightforward rise.

    That at least mitigates the furore over breaking a manifesto pledge .
    I don't know how the numbers work out but the clever approach would be to increase ICT by x% and reduce employees NI by x+0.5% and still raise revenue.

    There must be a value of x that does that given all those (like me now) whose income is not from employment.
    That was the suggestion behind reducing employee NI to zero over a parliament and increasing income tax.

    In fact, because there is a smaller tax base for NI, you could reduce NI *faster* than you increase income tax - in percentage terms. So you could do revenue neutral on PAYE employees and just increase tax on others. And still bring in an increased tax take.

    I wonder they will do about pensions and basic rate of tax? I would increase the personal allowance to match the pension - so no basic pensioners pay tax. I would keep the old rate of IT tax (before the NI transfer) for those over the pensionable age. So only pensioners on 50K+ would pay more.
    At which point you've just removed 95% of the increased income tax revenue...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,621
    edited October 29
    The next lever that will be pulled against removals....the French don't provide proper support when they return.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/france-aslyum-seeker-accomodation-uk-ff8rfpmfs
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,625

    The Green Party
    @TheGreenParty

    🚨BREAKING : The Green Party has passed 150,000 members 🥳

    https://x.com/TheGreenParty/status/1982749151625388418


    I'm late to this, so not breaking - two days old, but even so.

    Is there any point now in Corbyn leaving his allotment?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,724
    Finnish world shotgun champion Kim Leppänen took on FPV drones simulating attacking him.
    He failed on the first straight-on attack, not prepared for the high speed of the FPV.
    He successfully adapted but he is the best shooter in the world, and you don’t get a redo in Ukraine.

    https://x.com/GrandpaRoy2/status/1983582779616194960
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,621


    The Green Party
    @TheGreenParty

    🚨BREAKING : The Green Party has passed 150,000 members 🥳

    https://x.com/TheGreenParty/status/1982749151625388418


    I'm late to this, so not breaking - two days old, but even so.

    Is there any point now in Corbyn leaving his allotment?

    More time to appear in Panto....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,625
    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:


    nico67 said:

    Telegraph reporting Reeves might raise income tax and cut a corresponding amount from employees NI.

    That seems more plausible to me than a straightforward rise.

    That at least mitigates the furore over breaking a manifesto pledge .
    This was floated at least a month ago - how is it now a massive Telegraph story???

    School holidays and the work experience students are running the place?

    Admittedly, hard to tell the difference between them and the regulars.
    Work experience AIs surely.
    It's written by the pol editor!!!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,547
    edited October 29

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    Mail...

    Chancellor Rachel Reeves has admitted to breaking housing regulations after unlawfully renting out her family home for £3,200 a month without a licence after moving in to No 11. She has tonight referred herself to the Independent Ethics Adviser

    https://x.com/HarriLine/status/1983625152819818749

    Why would she need a licence to rent out a property?
    Its in the article linked,

    Southwark Council, the local authority, requires that private landlords in certain areas - including where her house is located - obtain a ‘selective’ licence to rent out their property. But tonight she admitted that she was unaware of the licencing requirement and, following inquiries by the Mail, applied for the licence.

    This has applied to most private residential properties rented to single families or unrelated tenants in the borough, since November 2023.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15239797/Rachel-Reeves-broke-law-renting-family-home-Downing-Street.html
    Surely her agency must have told her? Or is she renting without an agency to a family friend?
    ‘Since becoming Chancellor Rachel Reeves has rented out her family home through a lettings agency.'

    She claims nobody from the agency told her.
    If the agency can prove they did tell her she's deep in the mire. If not, I reckon she'll be ok.
    Southwark can apparently force her to pay back the rent to the tenant. Or fine her up to £30k.

    Or just say “oops it was an oversight, file the paperwork and we’ll let you off”

    I wonder which option the Labour controlled council will select for the Labour chancellor who has the ability to allocate or withhold central government grants to Southwark council
    The question is, assuming there is a referral, can ethics supremo Sir Laurence Magnus see the Reeves case differently from Rayner's?

    ETA if it is referred, then Hills, Ladbrokes and Corals are 7/1 against a 2025 exit (caution: there is not a great deal of 2025 left).
  • isamisam Posts: 42,925
    Aunty Semitism 🤣


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,189
    edited October 29
    eek said:


    nico67 said:

    Telegraph reporting Reeves might raise income tax and cut a corresponding amount from employees NI.

    That seems more plausible to me than a straightforward rise.

    That at least mitigates the furore over breaking a manifesto pledge .
    This was floated at least a month ago - how is it now a massive Telegraph story???

    They've got to post something every day - repeating a story from a month ago is fine provided their readers have forgotten about it.

    See the Daily Express and its loop between a bad winter, Princess Di and Brexit...
    Your hypoithesis reminds me irresistibly of the novel Kramer's War by Derek Robinson about a shot down USAAF pilot creating havoc in the occupied Channel Islands in WW2 in the fond belief that that was what the Allies wanted. There's a character in there, a very elderly and mentally ill/incapacitated army officer, whose nurse carefully gives him old copies of the Times every day on a strict cycle to keep him happy that it's still 1939 and thje cricket is on at Lords. (In the end, the 'hero' meets and disabuses him, on which said officer (ret) toddles down the drive way and meets a German in coal scuttle helmet with predictable results.)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,621
    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,189
    edited October 29

    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:


    nico67 said:

    Telegraph reporting Reeves might raise income tax and cut a corresponding amount from employees NI.

    That seems more plausible to me than a straightforward rise.

    That at least mitigates the furore over breaking a manifesto pledge .
    This was floated at least a month ago - how is it now a massive Telegraph story???

    School holidays and the work experience students are running the place?

    Admittedly, hard to tell the difference between them and the regulars.
    Work experience AIs surely.
    It's written by the pol editor!!!
    Oops. But paywalled. Well, from what we are told by another Speccy chap, they'll be one and the same soon.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,625
    isam said:

    Aunty Semitism 🤣


    While he's widow twatting about Polanksi has pulled in 150k members and is up in the polls to neck and neck with Labour.

    There is a tide in the affairs of man...

    No wonder Sultana broke the agreement and tried to get things moving before she was supposed to.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,388
    edited October 29

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Telegraph reporting Reeves might raise income tax and cut a corresponding amount from employees NI.

    That seems more plausible to me than a straightforward rise.

    Interesting if it's a straight fiscal swap or not. Cutting NICs by 3ppt and raising Income Tax by 3ppt sounds fair but would actually increase revenues.
    Pensioners would not be happy, they pay income tax but not NI (maybe they should pay both but they don't now) so would be a clear tax rise for pensioners.

    After the winter fuel debacle I suggest Starmer and Reeves avoid Skegness, Bexhill, Eastbourne etc unless they want to be pelted with rotten fruit
    Separate IT tax rate for basic rate pensioners, held at the current level.
    That would be an insanely unfair policy. And would lead us down an inevitable route to high taxes on the young and low taxes for the old, leading to the eventual economic collapse of the UK and possible civil war.

    90% chance I reckon.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,956
    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Telegraph reporting Reeves might raise income tax and cut a corresponding amount from employees NI.

    That seems more plausible to me than a straightforward rise.

    Interesting if it's a straight fiscal swap or not. Cutting NICs by 3ppt and raising Income Tax by 3ppt sounds fair but would actually increase revenues.
    Pensioners would not be happy, they pay income tax but not NI (maybe they should pay both but they don't now) so would be a clear tax rise for pensioners.

    After the winter fuel debacle I suggest Starmer and Reeves avoid Skegness, Bexhill, Eastbourne etc unless they want to be pelted with rotten fruit
    Separate IT tax rate for basic rate pensioners, held at the current level.
    That would be an insanely unfair policy. And would lead us down an inevitable route to high taxes on the young and low taxes for the old, leading to the eventual economic collapse of the UK and possible civil war.

    90% chance I reckon.
    It could mean lower/neutral taxes on PAYE employees (already paying NI + IT), no change for basic rate pensioners

    Paid for by increased tax on income that is not NI’d.

    Why would this be unfair?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,554

    Rach's tenants can claim back a year's rent from her

    https://www.southwark.gov.uk/housing/private-tenants-and-landlords/private-rented-property-licensing/unlicensed-properties

    Unlicensed properties
    You may be able to apply for a rent repayment order if:

    you're a tenant of an unlicensed property
    you've lived in an unlicensed property in the past 12 months
    This order allows you to recover up to 12 months of your rent back from your landlord.

    We work closely with Justice for Tenants. These are a not-for-profit tenant's rights organisation.

    They can help with your rent repayment order application.

    Whoopsie.
    Whoopsie? The Labour High Command are idiots.

    Internal Labour politics will be at play here, if Rach survives but Ang found guilty from similar sounding swindles of public money. KotN and his Useless Lucy glove puppet, will make hay if Reeves survives this scandal.

    On topic. Bollocks. Voters will vote for the King over President Boris or President Gordon Brown by massive majority in any plebiscite you wish to set up!
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,819
    edited October 29
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:


    "Speak to any 14 year old girl, or woman who remembers being 14. Such creepy behaviour by older men is very common."

    @Foxy on a previous thread.

    Yes - as someone who endured this and worse at 14 and on numerous occasions since then it is creepy and criminal and very common.

    And it is very common because men like you, I'm sorry to say, do not take it seriously, underplay it because it has happened "since time immemorial" (your words) so girls should just put up with it and it is far too much expense and bother to build the facilities to lock up the men who make women and girls' life a misery with this sort of behaviour.

    What is needed instead is for us to clamp down hard on men who do this, the first time they do it to send a very clear message that this is intolerable and will not be tolerated. Instead of expecting women to endure it, letting such men carry on with their repellent behaviour for years then being all shocked when they carry out some appalling crime and we learn of all the previous occasions when we turned a blind eye or were far too lenient because .... Well why? Because men can never be expected to behave or accept the consequences of their actions, apparently.

    Women are so fucking fed up and furious at being thought of as second class citizens whose interests don't matter, whose rights to basic decency must always come second to those of men. Every single fucking day in this country we see example after example of this contempt for women and girls, even from professionals such as @ Foxy who might be expected to know better.

    I did not deny that it was an act that neded dealing with by the police, and that it is an offense. I stressed in my first post on this that it should not be tolerated at 0756 today.

    All I called into question was whether a custodial sentence was appropriate.
    Why would a custodial sentence be inappropriate?

    And if a custodial sentence is not given in what way are we showing - not just saying - that such acts should not be tolerated?

    See for instance the number of men convicted of having child porn images, some of the very worst kind, who are very often sent to prison. Listen to the excuses given: "stress" and "good character" and so on. Then we wonder at why it is so prevalent.

    As for @maxh's question - sentiments, even horrible ones, are not crimes. It is actions which are crimes and words which incite violence. Thoughts are not crimes. So if someone attacks an immigrant or a trans person etc of course they should be dealt with firmly. Equally if those groups commit crimes they should be dealt with firmly. I would only note that the police do not take an even handed approach on this. It is apparently ok to make all kinds of threats of violence or commit actual violence against women, often in public places, with the police doing nothing at all.
    I think there are reasonable alternatives to prison for many offences, and that prison is an expensive way of making bad people worse.

    While his circumstances are more unusual, in that there probably is significant flight risk so remand probably required, but if he was a British citizen then he probably would be better punished by being placed on the sexual offenders register and a suspended sentence.

    If you really want to tackle the issue of preventing re-offending by paedophiles then systems like "circles of support" are probably the best system.

    https://circles-uk.org.uk/about/#our_impact
    You were claiming his sentence/treatment was due to racism this morning 🙄
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,565

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,580
    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Would have been funnier had it been the Home Secretary.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,554
    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    How is it difference than what Ang resigned for? It’s exactly the same excuse being made for embezzling public money by not paying it as rules stated - oh I didn’t know, silly me.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,625
    Oh wait...


    Centrist liberals head for shock victory in Dutch election, exit poll says

    BBC News online
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,148

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Labor government in Australia.

    "Australia deports foreign criminals to remote Pacific island
    Murderers, paedophiles, drug smugglers and other migrants are being sent to the tiny atoll of Nauru"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/10/28/australia-deports-foreign-criminals-pacific-island-nauru/?recomm_id=5fb1e59c-3812-4869-a602-ff97d4bd1023

    Doesn’t suggest that Nauru’s an attractive place to visit!
    Doesn't say whether the crims come from Nauru in the first place.

    It's about 8 sq miles and basically a derelict birdshit mine (worked out). Population about 10K, which is a lot for somewhere smaller than the Isle of Eigg.
    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Labor government in Australia.

    "Australia deports foreign criminals to remote Pacific island
    Murderers, paedophiles, drug smugglers and other migrants are being sent to the tiny atoll of Nauru"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/10/28/australia-deports-foreign-criminals-pacific-island-nauru/?recomm_id=5fb1e59c-3812-4869-a602-ff97d4bd1023

    Doesn’t suggest that Nauru’s an attractive place to visit!
    Doesn't say whether the crims come from Nauru in the first place.

    It's about 8 sq miles and basically a derelict birdshit mine (worked out). Population about 10K, which is a lot for somewhere smaller than the Isle of Eigg.
    I don’t think they're ‘native Naureans’; if indeed there are any such. Deeply unattractive, anyway.
    They have the highest rate of obesity in the world, but there's no need to shame them for it.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,565

    Oh wait...


    Centrist liberals head for shock victory in Dutch election, exit poll says

    BBC News online

    They surged in the last week on an optimistic message which makes a nice change .
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,282

    Oh wait...


    Centrist liberals head for shock victory in Dutch election, exit poll says

    BBC News online

    Weren't the opinion polls at the end showing something like this? Not much of a shock if so.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,625
    edited October 29

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    How is it difference than what Ang resigned for? It’s exactly the same excuse being made for embezzling public money by not paying it as rules stated - oh I didn’t know, silly me.
    As the story stands tonight it is completely different.

    Reeves says her letting agency did not mention anything about a licence being required.

    Rayner's advisors told her to get more, and detailed, legal and financial advice iirc and she didn't.

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,565
    Andy_JS said:

    Oh wait...


    Centrist liberals head for shock victory in Dutch election, exit poll says

    BBC News online

    Weren't the opinion polls at the end showing something like this? Not much of a shock if so.
    It was only the last few polls . We could all have made a lot of money if we backed them last week !
  • nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,148
    It is -of course- worth remembering that when your population is in secular decline, it means the value of any debts the government passes down weigh more heavily because they are spread over fewer people.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,785
    edited October 29
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:


    "Speak to any 14 year old girl, or woman who remembers being 14. Such creepy behaviour by older men is very common."

    @Foxy on a previous thread.

    Yes - as someone who endured this and worse at 14 and on numerous occasions since then it is creepy and criminal and very common.

    And it is very common because men like you, I'm sorry to say, do not take it seriously, underplay it because it has happened "since time immemorial" (your words) so girls should just put up with it and it is far too much expense and bother to build the facilities to lock up the men who make women and girls' life a misery with this sort of behaviour.

    What is needed instead is for us to clamp down hard on men who do this, the first time they do it to send a very clear message that this is intolerable and will not be tolerated. Instead of expecting women to endure it, letting such men carry on with their repellent behaviour for years then being all shocked when they carry out some appalling crime and we learn of all the previous occasions when we turned a blind eye or were far too lenient because .... Well why? Because men can never be expected to behave or accept the consequences of their actions, apparently.

    Women are so fucking fed up and furious at being thought of as second class citizens whose interests don't matter, whose rights to basic decency must always come second to those of men. Every single fucking day in this country we see example after example of this contempt for women and girls, even from professionals such as @ Foxy who might be expected to know better.

    I did not deny that it was an act that neded dealing with by the police, and that it is an offense. I stressed in my first post on this that it should not be tolerated at 0756 today.

    All I called into question was whether a custodial sentence was appropriate.
    Why would a custodial sentence be inappropriate?

    And if a custodial sentence is not given in what way are we showing - not just saying - that such acts should not be tolerated?

    See for instance the number of men convicted of having child porn images, some of the very worst kind, who are very often sent to prison. Listen to the excuses given: "stress" and "good character" and so on. Then we wonder at why it is so prevalent.

    As for @maxh's question - sentiments, even horrible ones, are not crimes. It is actions which are crimes and words which incite violence. Thoughts are not crimes. So if someone attacks an immigrant or a trans person etc of course they should be dealt with firmly. Equally if those groups commit crimes they should be dealt with firmly. I would only note that the police do not take an even handed approach on this. It is apparently ok to make all kinds of threats of violence or commit actual violence against women, often in public places, with the police doing nothing at all.
    I think there are reasonable alternatives to prison for many offences, and that prison is an expensive way of making bad people worse.

    While his circumstances are more unusual, in that there probably is significant flight risk so remand probably required, but if he was a British citizen then he probably would be better punished by being placed on the sexual offenders register and a suspended sentence.

    If you really want to tackle the issue of preventing re-offending by paedophiles then systems like "circles of support" are probably the best system.

    https://circles-uk.org.uk/about/#our_impact
    You were claiming his sentence was racism this morning 🙄
    Not quite what I said. Indeed very few of the replies to me have accurately quoted me or my argument.

    DavidL, who is a lawyer who prosecutes sexual offenders, posted this morning at 10:03 that he thinks other similar offences would not normally get a custodial sentence.

    I think he was remanded in custody in part for his housing situation (people without a fixed address are often remanded as a flight risk) and in part for his own safety. If he had been discharged to the Bell Hotel then the disturbances may well have turned into a lynch mob.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,819

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
    He’d have the Kleenex out and his Y-fronts round his ankles if it was Reform or a Tory.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,565

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
    I mean how many people even think they’d need a licence to rent out their own home . There’s lots of things to criticize Reeves for but this story is really just a simple error in which she had nothing to gain by not getting the licence.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,565
    Taz said:

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
    He’d have the Kleenex out and his Y-fronts round his ankles if it was Reform or a Tory.
    Y-fronts !
  • nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    How is it difference than what Ang resigned for? It’s exactly the same excuse being made for embezzling public money by not paying it as rules stated - oh I didn’t know, silly me.
    As the story stands tonight it is completely different.

    Reeves says her letting agency did not mention anything about a licence being required.

    Rayner's advisors told her to get more, and detailed, legal and financial advice iirc and she didn't.

    Rayner didn't admit her advisors told her that

    Neither has Reeves

    What's the difference at this stage?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,148
    Regarding Rachel Reeves and the landlord's license, it is fair to say it's complicated, and so I actually have some sympathy.

    We -for example- rent out our house in Hampstead, because we live in the US. We don't have a landlord's license, and I'd never even heard of the thing, and the letting agent never even mentioned it to us.

    So, when I read the story my first instinct was to think... f*ck... do I need a license?

    Fortunately, I don't. But I can understand why you might not realise that you need one.
  • nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
    I mean how many people even think they’d need a licence to rent out their own home . There’s lots of things to criticize Reeves for but this story is really just a simple error in which she had nothing to gain by not getting the licence.
    She's the Chancellor of the Exchequer - "how many people even think they'd need one" is completely fucking irrelevant

    Should the CoE be as ignorant as the average idiot?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,554

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    How is it difference than what Ang resigned for? It’s exactly the same excuse being made for embezzling public money by not paying it as rules stated - oh I didn’t know, silly me.
    As the story stands tonight it is completely different.

    Reeves says her letting agency did not mention anything about a licence being required.

    Rayner's advisors told her to get more, and detailed, legal and financial advice iirc and she didn't.

    Rayner didn't admit her advisors told her that

    Neither has Reeves

    What's the difference at this stage?
    The main difference at this stage is the government already leaning on the ethics advisor by already speaking to him, to stop a proper investigation even starting. Rayner didn’t get any support like that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,625
    rcs1000 said:

    Regarding Rachel Reeves and the landlord's license, it is fair to say it's complicated, and so I actually have some sympathy.

    We -for example- rent out our house in Hampstead, because we live in the US. We don't have a landlord's license, and I'd never even heard of the thing, and the letting agent never even mentioned it to us.

    So, when I read the story my first instinct was to think... f*ck... do I need a license?

    Fortunately, I don't. But I can understand why you might not realise that you need one.

    The agent is shit if they don't know this stuff applies in their catchment area
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,148

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    How is it difference than what Ang resigned for? It’s exactly the same excuse being made for embezzling public money by not paying it as rules stated - oh I didn’t know, silly me.
    I don't think that Rachel Reeves garnered any financial advantage, so it's rather different, no?

    If she had -say- AirBnBed her property out (without a licence) for more than the permitted number of days a year, then she would have had an advantage. But she was just unaware that her council required a license, which - for single family residences rented to a single family - are essentially automatically given.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,289
    rcs1000 said:

    Regarding Rachel Reeves and the landlord's license, it is fair to say it's complicated, and so I actually have some sympathy.

    We -for example- rent out our house in Hampstead, because we live in the US. We don't have a landlord's license, and I'd never even heard of the thing, and the letting agent never even mentioned it to us.

    So, when I read the story my first instinct was to think... f*ck... do I need a license?

    Fortunately, I don't. But I can understand why you might not realise that you need one.

    The difference is, Reeves is the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,388
    edited October 29

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Telegraph reporting Reeves might raise income tax and cut a corresponding amount from employees NI.

    That seems more plausible to me than a straightforward rise.

    Interesting if it's a straight fiscal swap or not. Cutting NICs by 3ppt and raising Income Tax by 3ppt sounds fair but would actually increase revenues.
    Pensioners would not be happy, they pay income tax but not NI (maybe they should pay both but they don't now) so would be a clear tax rise for pensioners.

    After the winter fuel debacle I suggest Starmer and Reeves avoid Skegness, Bexhill, Eastbourne etc unless they want to be pelted with rotten fruit
    Separate IT tax rate for basic rate pensioners, held at the current level.
    That would be an insanely unfair policy. And would lead us down an inevitable route to high taxes on the young and low taxes for the old, leading to the eventual economic collapse of the UK and possible civil war.

    90% chance I reckon.
    It could mean lower/neutral taxes on PAYE employees (already paying NI + IT), no change for basic rate pensioners

    Paid for by increased tax on income that is not NI’d.

    Why would this be unfair?
    -- I may have misunderstood what you are suggesting --

    It's all very complicated because you have different rates and different thresholds for NICs and IT. If you had a different basic rate for pensioners, that would mean that pensioners with income of up to £37,700 - the median salary - would be taxed at a lower rate than people in work. In addition to the fact they still won't be paying what remains of NICs on pension income.

    I think that's pretty intolerable tbh.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,554
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
    I mean how many people even think they’d need a licence to rent out their own home . There’s lots of things to criticize Reeves for but this story is really just a simple error in which she had nothing to gain by not getting the licence.
    Nothing to gain? The money involved here is a lot of money she now must fork out.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,956
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:


    "Speak to any 14 year old girl, or woman who remembers being 14. Such creepy behaviour by older men is very common."

    @Foxy on a previous thread.

    Yes - as someone who endured this and worse at 14 and on numerous occasions since then it is creepy and criminal and very common.

    And it is very common because men like you, I'm sorry to say, do not take it seriously, underplay it because it has happened "since time immemorial" (your words) so girls should just put up with it and it is far too much expense and bother to build the facilities to lock up the men who make women and girls' life a misery with this sort of behaviour.

    What is needed instead is for us to clamp down hard on men who do this, the first time they do it to send a very clear message that this is intolerable and will not be tolerated. Instead of expecting women to endure it, letting such men carry on with their repellent behaviour for years then being all shocked when they carry out some appalling crime and we learn of all the previous occasions when we turned a blind eye or were far too lenient because .... Well why? Because men can never be expected to behave or accept the consequences of their actions, apparently.

    Women are so fucking fed up and furious at being thought of as second class citizens whose interests don't matter, whose rights to basic decency must always come second to those of men. Every single fucking day in this country we see example after example of this contempt for women and girls, even from professionals such as @ Foxy who might be expected to know better.

    I did not deny that it was an act that neded dealing with by the police, and that it is an offense. I stressed in my first post on this that it should not be tolerated at 0756 today.

    All I called into question was whether a custodial sentence was appropriate.
    Why would a custodial sentence be inappropriate?

    And if a custodial sentence is not given in what way are we showing - not just saying - that such acts should not be tolerated?

    See for instance the number of men convicted of having child porn images, some of the very worst kind, who are very often sent to prison. Listen to the excuses given: "stress" and "good character" and so on. Then we wonder at why it is so prevalent.

    As for @maxh's question - sentiments, even horrible ones, are not crimes. It is actions which are crimes and words which incite violence. Thoughts are not crimes. So if someone attacks an immigrant or a trans person etc of course they should be dealt with firmly. Equally if those groups commit crimes they should be dealt with firmly. I would only note that the police do not take an even handed approach on this. It is apparently ok to make all kinds of threats of violence or commit actual violence against women, often in public places, with the police doing nothing at all.
    I think there are reasonable alternatives to prison for many offences, and that prison is an expensive way of making bad people worse.

    While his circumstances are more unusual, in that there probably is significant flight risk so remand probably required, but if he was a British citizen then he probably would be better punished by being placed on the sexual offenders register and a suspended sentence.

    If you really want to tackle the issue of preventing re-offending by paedophiles then systems like "circles of support" are probably the best system.

    https://circles-uk.org.uk/about/#our_impact
    You were claiming his sentence was racism this morning 🙄
    Not quite what I said. Indeed very few of the replies to me have accurately quoted me or my argument.

    DavidL, who is a lawyer who prosecutes sexual offenders, posted this morning at 10:03 that he thinks other similar offences would not normally get a custodial sentence.

    I think he was remanded in custody in part for his housing situation (people without a fixed address are often remanded as a flight risk) and in part for his own safety. If he had been discharged to the Bell Hotel then the disturbances may well have turned into a lynch mob.
    The sentencing remarks - https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Hadush-Kebatu-Sentence-Remarks.pdf

    … do not include anything of what you said (above)

    Causing or inciting a child to engage in sexual
    Activity varies a sentence of up to 14 years.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,565

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
    I mean how many people even think they’d need a licence to rent out their own home . There’s lots of things to criticize Reeves for but this story is really just a simple error in which she had nothing to gain by not getting the licence.
    She's the Chancellor of the Exchequer - "how many people even think they'd need one" is completely fucking irrelevant

    Should the CoE be as ignorant as the average idiot?
    Ask 99% of the public and they’d have no idea you’d need a licence to rent out your own home . She had nothing to gain by not getting the licence and actually could be out of pocket . I have no time for Reeves and she’s been dismal as CoE but really I could care less about this story .
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,400
    ...

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Is that the same BBC that substituted footage of Prime Minister Johnson tossing a wreath upside down at the Cenotaph in 2019 with footage of Mayor Johnson getting it right in 2016?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,565
    edited October 29

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
    I mean how many people even think they’d need a licence to rent out their own home . There’s lots of things to criticize Reeves for but this story is really just a simple error in which she had nothing to gain by not getting the licence.
    Nothing to gain? The money involved here is a lot of money she now must fork out.
    Exactly the error could cost her a lot . So the pearl clutchers can just do one and find a life .
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,956
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
    I mean how many people even think they’d need a licence to rent out their own home . There’s lots of things to criticize Reeves for but this story is really just a simple error in which she had nothing to gain by not getting the licence.
    The presumption in law is that you need to be aware of all your legal obligations as a landlord and deal with them.

    Everyone else who is a landlord has to live by these rules.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,832
    edited October 29
    The answer to @Foxy saying that because prisons currently don't work effectively we should not give custodial sentences is to work on making prisons effective, both in keeping people off the streets and ensuring they don't reoffend.

    To say to a woman or child who has been assaulted, your offender is free to reoffend repeatedly because we can't be arsed to do this is to add insult to injury. Using Foxy's logic we wouldn't put anyone in prison.

    There needs to be punishment. More importantly, we need men to understand that certain behaviours are wrong and there will be real accountability for them if they behave in such ways. We TALK a lot about stopping violence against women & girls. We TALK a lot about the evils of child sexual abuse. But in reality we DO very little or, rather, we do not do anything like enough, even taking into account the efforts of people like @DavidL. We also ignore the effects on women and girls who see offences against them treated as somehow not important.

    @nico67 made an interesting point earlier about not making women feel that they must feel traumatised by everything that happens to them. This is certainly true in that we all need to learn resilience etc and that women will react in different ways because they will find different ways of coping with bad stuff that happens to them.

    My point is a different one: women see such offences minimised etc and it just makes them feel as if they are not important. They have to find a way to cope because they feel abandoned by a society which does not effectively either ensure this stuff does not happen or deal effectively with the perpetrators. The trauma - to use a wide term - is not in just what happens but also in the subsequent feeling of being abandoned.

    I wrote about this in greater detail here - https://www.cyclefree.co.uk/joined-up-thinking/

    See this section -

    See also this quote from it:

    "Earlier in the programme (from about 7:14 am), Wera Hobhouse had been interviewed on the same topic. In February 2019 thanks to her efforts, upskirting became a criminal offence. She too was concerned at the disregard for sexual offences — 

    “Where are we if these attacks on women continue to be normalised?”

    She too wanted a “complete culture change” so that all sexual offences, however minor, were properly reported and investigated.

    Then this — 

    The traumatising effect that any of these offences have on women has been completely underestimated….. Women are deeply traumatised. It’s a proper offence. It leads to ultimately the feeling in women that they’re very vulnerable, that they’re not being listened to, ….that what they feel is a proper attack on them, their freedom, their liberty, their way of life is not seen as such.

    It is this which is not really appreciated by far too many men.
  • ...

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Is that the same BBC that substituted footage of Prime Minister Johnson tossing a wreath upside down at the Cenotaph in 2019 with footage of Mayor Johnson getting it right in 2016?
    Have they still not replied to your earnest complaint letter?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,565

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
    I mean how many people even think they’d need a licence to rent out their own home . There’s lots of things to criticize Reeves for but this story is really just a simple error in which she had nothing to gain by not getting the licence.
    The presumption in law is that you need to be aware of all your legal obligations as a landlord and deal with them.

    Everyone else who is a landlord has to live by these rules.
    The estate agents should have known this info and told her . She should sue them when her tenants end up getting a years rent back !
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,554
    edited October 29
    rcs1000 said:

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    How is it difference than what Ang resigned for? It’s exactly the same excuse being made for embezzling public money by not paying it as rules stated - oh I didn’t know, silly me.
    I don't think that Rachel Reeves garnered any financial advantage, so it's rather different, no?

    If she had -say- AirBnBed her property out (without a licence) for more than the permitted number of days a year, then she would have had an advantage. But she was just unaware that her council required a license, which - for single family residences rented to a single family - are essentially automatically given.
    Maybe you only showing sympathy because a few posts ago you were going to jail for fraudulent property baroning. And that would have been embarrassing.

    Anyone not paying a fine to a socialist council can be jailed.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,388
    edited October 29

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
    I mean how many people even think they’d need a licence to rent out their own home . There’s lots of things to criticize Reeves for but this story is really just a simple error in which she had nothing to gain by not getting the licence.
    The presumption in law is that you need to be aware of all your legal obligations as a landlord and deal with them.

    Everyone else who is a landlord has to live by these rules.
    I agree. It's extremely hard luck on Reeves considering that you have this completely mad and inconsistent system in England, and her ridiculous agent didn't advise her, but... the rules are the rules. It feels very much like the Rayner thing where if she'd waited 6 months the tax wasn't an issue anyway.

    Labour are - rightly - cracking down on rogue landlords and these registration rules help in that endeavour. It's not a good look.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,400
    edited October 29

    ...

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Is that the same BBC that substituted footage of Prime Minister Johnson tossing a wreath upside down at the Cenotaph in 2019 with footage of Mayor Johnson getting it right in 2016?
    Have they still not replied to your earnest complaint letter?
    Perhaps it got lost in the post.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,554
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
    I mean how many people even think they’d need a licence to rent out their own home . There’s lots of things to criticize Reeves for but this story is really just a simple error in which she had nothing to gain by not getting the licence.
    Nothing to gain? The money involved here is a lot of money she now must fork out.
    Exactly the error could cost her a lot . So the pearl clutchers can just do one and find a life .
    Rule makers cannot be rule breakers.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,943

    ...

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Is that the same BBC that substituted footage of Prime Minister Johnson tossing a wreath upside down at the Cenotaph in 2019 with footage of Mayor Johnson getting it right in 2016?
    Dragging that old chestnut from 6 years hence? You don’t believe their version of events (cock-up, not conspiracy)?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,554
    Eabhal said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
    I mean how many people even think they’d need a licence to rent out their own home . There’s lots of things to criticize Reeves for but this story is really just a simple error in which she had nothing to gain by not getting the licence.
    The presumption in law is that you need to be aware of all your legal obligations as a landlord and deal with them.

    Everyone else who is a landlord has to live by these rules.
    I agree. It's extremely hard luck on Reeves considering that you have this completely mad and inconsistent system in England, and her ridiculous agent didn't advise her, but... the rules are the rules. It feels very much like the Rayner thing where if she'd waited 6 months the tax wasn't an issue anyway.

    Labour are - rightly - cracking down on rogue landlords and these registration rules help in that endeavour. It's not a good look.
    They are the bad Landlords!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,830
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
    I mean how many people even think they’d need a licence to rent out their own home . There’s lots of things to criticize Reeves for but this story is really just a simple error in which she had nothing to gain by not getting the licence.
    Is ignorance of the law a valid defence now?
  • Labour's "100 achievements"

    https://x.com/lukejcr/status/1983642691897585760/photo/1

    Includes: New Deal For Farmers
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,437
    isam said:

    Aunty Semitism 🤣


    Cruel. But also funny.

    "Oh yes he is! Oh no he isn't!"
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,400

    ...

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Is that the same BBC that substituted footage of Prime Minister Johnson tossing a wreath upside down at the Cenotaph in 2019 with footage of Mayor Johnson getting it right in 2016?
    Dragging that old chestnut from 6 years hence? You don’t believe their version of events (cock-up, not conspiracy)?
    Yes it's totally plausible that footage from 2016 was accidentally edited into a bulletin because the 2019 footage for any reason other than to spare the blushes of the Government of the day.

    I'll never mention the event again if no PB Tory mentions Gordon Brown selling the gold reserves back in the 1990s.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,830

    Labour's "100 achievements"

    https://x.com/lukejcr/status/1983642691897585760/photo/1

    Includes: New Deal For Farmers

    “Pray I don’t alter it further”.
  • viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Aunty Semitism 🤣


    Cruel. But also funny.

    "Oh yes he is! Oh no he isn't!"
    He's the Wizard of Ozlington

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,956
    Cyclefree said:

    The answer to @Foxy saying that because prisons currently don't work effectively we should not give custodial sentences is to work on making prisons effective, both in keeping people off the streets and ensuring they don't reoffend.

    To say to a woman or child who has been assaulted, your offender is free to reoffend repeatedly because we can't be arsed to do this is to add insult to injury. Using Foxy's logic we wouldn't put anyone in prison.

    There needs to be punishment. More importantly, we need men to understand that certain behaviours are wrong and there will be real accountability for them if they behave in such ways. We TALK a lot about stopping violence against women & girls. We TALK a lot about the evils of child sexual abuse. But in reality we DO very little or, rather, we do not do anything like enough, even taking into account the efforts of people like @DavidL. We also ignore the effects on women and girls who see offences against them treated as somehow not important.

    @nico67 made an interesting point earlier about not making women feel that they must feel traumatised by everything that happens to them. This is certainly true in that we all need to learn resilience etc and that women will react in different ways because they will find different ways of coping with bad stuff that happens to them.

    My point is a different one: women see such offences minimised etc and it just makes them feel as if they are not important. They have to find a way to cope because they feel abandoned by a society which does not effectively either ensure this stuff does not happen or deal effectively with the perpetrators. The trauma - to use a wide term - is not in just what happens but also in the subsequent feeling of being abandoned.

    I wrote about this in greater detail here - https://www.cyclefree.co.uk/joined-up-thinking/

    See this section -

    See also this quote from it:

    "Earlier in the programme (from about 7:14 am), Wera Hobhouse had been interviewed on the same topic. In February 2019 thanks to her efforts, upskirting became a criminal offence. She too was concerned at the disregard for sexual offences — 

    “Where are we if these attacks on women continue to be normalised?”

    She too wanted a “complete culture change” so that all sexual offences, however minor, were properly reported and investigated.

    Then this — 

    The traumatising effect that any of these offences have on women has been completely underestimated….. Women are deeply traumatised. It’s a proper offence. It leads to ultimately the feeling in women that they’re very vulnerable, that they’re not being listened to, ….that what they feel is a proper attack on them, their freedom, their liberty, their way of life is not seen as such.

    It is this which is not really appreciated by far too many men.

    Indeed

    I further note that when the subject of a custodial sentence was the racial
    Incitement moron from the riots, no one said that prison was unlikely to reform her.

    In both this case and that, the sentencing remarks clearly demonstrated why the sentence was what it was. There is no vast leeway in the sentencing system. Judges and magistrates can’t send people to prison because they feel it’s a good idea. It needs to be justified, point by point.

    Once again, someone point out the flaws in this -

    https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Hadush-Kebatu-Sentence-Remarks.pdf

    Or this

    https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Connollysentence.pdf
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,565
    In response to Cyclefree.

    My point really is for women to not be made to feel like victims if they don’t actually feel that way. And they shouldn’t be forced to think they’re now damaged and need hours of therapy to get over an incident .

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,852
    This Reeves thing is nothing and I'd say the same if it were Mel Stride.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,956
    nico67 said:

    In response to Cyclefree.

    My point really is for women to not be made to feel like victims if they don’t actually feel that way. And they shouldn’t be forced to think they’re now damaged and need hours of therapy to get over an incident .

    Yes, obviously they need to “man up”….
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,282
    Dutch election results

    https://app.nos.nl/nieuws/tk2025
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,951
    rcs1000 said:

    Regarding Rachel Reeves and the landlord's license, it is fair to say it's complicated, and so I actually have some sympathy.

    We -for example- rent out our house in Hampstead, because we live in the US. We don't have a landlord's license, and I'd never even heard of the thing, and the letting agent never even mentioned it to us.

    So, when I read the story my first instinct was to think... f*ck... do I need a license?

    Fortunately, I don't. But I can understand why you might not realise that you need one.

    Nevertheless, under Blanche rules you should resign from PB forthwith.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,565

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
    I mean how many people even think they’d need a licence to rent out their own home . There’s lots of things to criticize Reeves for but this story is really just a simple error in which she had nothing to gain by not getting the licence.
    Nothing to gain? The money involved here is a lot of money she now must fork out.
    Exactly the error could cost her a lot . So the pearl clutchers can just do one and find a life .
    Rule makers cannot be rule breakers.
    The public tend to get hacked off when politicians make an error that could be seen to help them financially. I really don’t care about the latest Reeves story . If she’s to go it’s because she’s made some poor economic decisions not over this ridiculous overblown story .
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,400
    edited October 29
    kinabalu said:

    This Reeves thing is nothing and I'd say the same if it were Mel Stride.

    Ministers who make an error have to go, yet people in the last Government who spawned the PPE fast lane grift are rewarded with a seat in the House of Lords.

    It is odd that the Mail and the Robbie Gibb BBC see the splinter in the eye of one and not the plank in the eye of others.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,951
    Cyclefree said:

    The answer to @Foxy saying that because prisons currently don't work effectively we should not give custodial sentences is to work on making prisons effective, both in keeping people off the streets and ensuring they don't reoffend.

    To say to a woman or child who has been assaulted, your offender is free to reoffend repeatedly because we can't be arsed to do this is to add insult to injury. Using Foxy's logic we wouldn't put anyone in prison.

    There needs to be punishment. More importantly, we need men to understand that certain behaviours are wrong and there will be real accountability for them if they behave in such ways. We TALK a lot about stopping violence against women & girls. We TALK a lot about the evils of child sexual abuse. But in reality we DO very little or, rather, we do not do anything like enough, even taking into account the efforts of people like @DavidL. We also ignore the effects on women and girls who see offences against them treated as somehow not important.

    @nico67 made an interesting point earlier about not making women feel that they must feel traumatised by everything that happens to them. This is certainly true in that we all need to learn resilience etc and that women will react in different ways because they will find different ways of coping with bad stuff that happens to them.

    My point is a different one: women see such offences minimised etc and it just makes them feel as if they are not important. They have to find a way to cope because they feel abandoned by a society which does not effectively either ensure this stuff does not happen or deal effectively with the perpetrators. The trauma - to use a wide term - is not in just what happens but also in the subsequent feeling of being abandoned.

    I wrote about this in greater detail here - https://www.cyclefree.co.uk/joined-up-thinking/

    See this section -

    See also this quote from it:

    "Earlier in the programme (from about 7:14 am), Wera Hobhouse had been interviewed on the same topic. In February 2019 thanks to her efforts, upskirting became a criminal offence. She too was concerned at the disregard for sexual offences — 

    “Where are we if these attacks on women continue to be normalised?”

    She too wanted a “complete culture change” so that all sexual offences, however minor, were properly reported and investigated.

    Then this — 

    The traumatising effect that any of these offences have on women has been completely underestimated….. Women are deeply traumatised. It’s a proper offence. It leads to ultimately the feeling in women that they’re very vulnerable, that they’re not being listened to, ….that what they feel is a proper attack on them, their freedom, their liberty, their way of life is not seen as such.

    It is this which is not really appreciated by far too many men.

    Prison is not just to punish the guilty, but to protect the innocent from their actions. Therefore, men that use violence against women and children, whether sexual or otherwise, should be jailed. I don’t have a problem with protesters, or even fraudsters being released in order to free spaces for violent men.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,984
    kinabalu said:

    This Reeves thing is nothing and I'd say the same if it were Mel Stride.

    Are you saying that Mel Stride's thing is nothing? A bit harsh...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,554
    kinabalu said:

    This Reeves thing is nothing and I'd say the same if it were Mel Stride.

    Obtaining three thousand pound a month illegally? In a country people can’t either eat or heat? Emancipated parents go without to let their children eat the breakfast before going to school. £3K every month illegally is not nothing. It was so easy to double check, as RCS has just done it quickly.

    Unless they block an investigation, as they are scrambling to do tonight, it’s not going to exonerate her saying she did nothing wrong, broke no rules, is it?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,851
    edited October 29

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Only 154 MPs vote in favour of the ECHR? Not much of a vote of confidence.

    "MPs vote down Farage's proposal for UK to leave ECHR
    The result is in. Nigel Farage was defeated by 154 votes to 96, a majority of 58."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2025/oct/29/shabana-mahmood-home-office-immigration-pmqs-labour-keir-starmer-kemi-badenoch-conservatives-uk-politics-live-news

    Or the government knew they'd win, so why bother getting everyone in to vote?
    Some more on the story;

    ...The initial instruction to Labour MPs was to not vote...
    How about a three-line whip to tell them all to vote against? Honestly, what is wrong with Labour?

    Frit, as someone once said. And that after a couple of days where it looked like they had eaten their Weetabix.

    But there are some disappointing names on that Conservative list.
    It was, I think, on a Private Member's 10 Minute Rule Bill with no chance of progressing into law. I know as a former MP that it's unusual to force a vote at all in those circumstances. I'm very critical of aspects of Government policy, but in this particular case the "offence" is likely to have been an effect of Parliament;s archaic rules.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,282
    Another great episode of The Traitors tonight. No spoilers of course.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,929
    edited October 29

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
    I mean how many people even think they’d need a licence to rent out their own home . There’s lots of things to criticize Reeves for but this story is really just a simple error in which she had nothing to gain by not getting the licence.
    The presumption in law is that you need to be aware of all your legal obligations as a landlord and deal with them.

    Everyone else who is a landlord has to live by these rules.
    True, but she should be sacked or resign not because she broke some rules, but because she's a dismally incompetent and out-of-her-depth Chancellor who has no idea how to get the economy back to a decent level of growth, and in fact is making things much worse while she clings to office.

    The landlord thing is stupid, like her repeated lies on her CV, but if the economy were booming and she were cutting taxes, and setting business free, I wouldn't care in the slightest. Same with Boris and his house parties.

    So sack Reeves, but for the right reason.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,565

    nico67 said:

    In response to Cyclefree.

    My point really is for women to not be made to feel like victims if they don’t actually feel that way. And they shouldn’t be forced to think they’re now damaged and need hours of therapy to get over an incident .

    Yes, obviously they need to “man up”….
    Therapy is not right for everyone . And it shouldn’t be forced on people .
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,406
    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Aunty Semitism 🤣


    Cruel. But also funny.

    "Oh yes he is! Oh no he isn't!"
    "He's behind you!"
  • isamisam Posts: 42,925
    There’s a play on BBC3 now that I’m recording; The Absence of War. John Thaw as a political leader apparently based on Labour’s 1992 GE campaign
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,951

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Only 154 MPs vote in favour of the ECHR? Not much of a vote of confidence.

    "MPs vote down Farage's proposal for UK to leave ECHR
    The result is in. Nigel Farage was defeated by 154 votes to 96, a majority of 58."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2025/oct/29/shabana-mahmood-home-office-immigration-pmqs-labour-keir-starmer-kemi-badenoch-conservatives-uk-politics-live-news

    Or the government knew they'd win, so why bother getting everyone in to vote?
    Some more on the story;

    ...The initial instruction to Labour MPs was to not vote...
    How about a three-line whip to tell them all to vote against? Honestly, what is wrong with Labour?

    Frit, as someone once said. And that after a couple of days where it looked like they had eaten their Weetabix.

    But there are some disappointing names on that Conservative list.
    It was, I think, on a Private Member's 10 Minute Rule Bill with no chance of progressing into law. I know as a former MP that it's unusual to force a vote at all in those circumstances. I'm very critical of aspects of Government policy, but in this particular case the "offence" is likely to have been an effect of Parliament;s archaic rules.
    Yes, but the Government should have been more aware of the likely media backlash.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,951

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Aunty Semitism 🤣


    Cruel. But also funny.

    "Oh yes he is! Oh no he isn't!"
    "He's behind you!"
    He’s behind Reform, Labour, the Lib Dems, the Greens and the Tories.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,138
    edited October 29
    I rent a flat out (to one of my daughters, as it happens - ever so cheap).
    I suspect I'm not alone in rapidly googling tonight to find out if my local authority has any local bye-laws necessitating me to have a licence to do so. I've certainly not heard of it before.
    I don't think it's a problem for Reeves, unless she was told by the lettings agency that Southwark demands a licence.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,163

    Labour's "100 achievements"

    https://x.com/lukejcr/status/1983642691897585760/photo/1

    Includes: New Deal For Farmers

    Shit Deal for Farmers more like
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,724
    Eabhal said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Rachel Reeves story has made the BBC.

    Oh God more pearl clutching by the media . It’s a total non story but I’m sure will be cremated to death by the usual suspects who will call for Reeves to resign .
    Do you believe that the media or Starmer would have kept quiet if a Tory Chancellor had done the same?

    And would you be bitching about the non-storyness of it all?
    I mean how many people even think they’d need a licence to rent out their own home . There’s lots of things to criticize Reeves for but this story is really just a simple error in which she had nothing to gain by not getting the licence.
    The presumption in law is that you need to be aware of all your legal obligations as a landlord and deal with them.

    Everyone else who is a landlord has to live by these rules.
    I agree. It's extremely hard luck on Reeves considering that you have this completely mad and inconsistent system in England, and her ridiculous agent didn't advise her, but... the rules are the rules. It feels very much like the Rayner thing where if she'd waited 6 months the tax wasn't an issue anyway.

    Labour are - rightly - cracking down on rogue landlords and these registration rules help in that endeavour. It's not a good look.
    What's the usual penalty for failing to obtain the license as Reeves did ?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,138

    Labour's "100 achievements"

    https://x.com/lukejcr/status/1983642691897585760/photo/1

    Includes: New Deal For Farmers

    Well, it is a New Deal for Farmers. The new deal is that they have to pay some inheritance tax, just like others.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,535
    rcs1000 said:

    Regarding Rachel Reeves and the landlord's license, it is fair to say it's complicated, and so I actually have some sympathy.

    We -for example- rent out our house in Hampstead, because we live in the US. We don't have a landlord's license, and I'd never even heard of the thing, and the letting agent never even mentioned it to us.

    So, when I read the story my first instinct was to think... f*ck... do I need a license?

    Fortunately, I don't. But I can understand why you might not realise that you need one.

    This sort of random stealth taxation and pointless petty bureaucracy is a terrible idea. I'm therefore generally pretty sympathetic to anyone who finds themselves ensnared by it.

    However, the big difference between people like you and me and Rachel Reeves is that she is part of the government, and we are not. Ultimately the existence of this stupid licencing is something she has control over. And given that, she should get shafted for it to the maximum extent the law allows, and then resign in disgrace. If that happened to politicians more often, maybe we'd get less daft bureaucracy in the first place.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,163

    Labour's "100 achievements"

    https://x.com/lukejcr/status/1983642691897585760/photo/1

    Includes: New Deal For Farmers

    Well, it is a New Deal for Farmers. The new deal is that they have to pay some inheritance tax, just like others.
    As they already did if it was not for agricultural purposes. now this useless government have taxed land used to grow crops as well
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,554
    HYUFD said:

    Labour's "100 achievements"

    https://x.com/lukejcr/status/1983642691897585760/photo/1

    Includes: New Deal For Farmers

    Well, it is a New Deal for Farmers. The new deal is that they have to pay some inheritance tax, just like others.
    As they already did if it was not for agricultural purposes. now this useless government have taxed land used to grow crops as well
    That’s right, government useless, as no one pays this tax to the government, we pay it to experts down the con club who help us by pass it. But it was never intended to bring in money to government, as you see from PBers liking it and thinking it good, some people up for pointless class war gimmicks. Farmers spend their own money and time repairing, maintaining and cleaning up the countryside, and this stealth tax was an ignorant slap in the face to the backbone of England.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,535
    isam said:

    Kemi skewered Sir Keir on his tax pledges at PMQs, and it was quite beautifully done

    At prime minister’s questions, Kemi Badenoch used her first question to ask precisely that. Does the manifesto commitment not to raise those three taxes still stand?

    “I’m glad she wants to talk about the economy,” came the answer, followed by more than a minute of untranscribable waffle. It was a yes/no question. A yes or a no would have done.

    Down on the opposition front benches, Badenoch did not try especially hard to conceal her delight. She grinned a grin of pure, malign pleasure. She looked, for a moment, like Tim Curry’s evil hotel concierge in Home Alone 2.

    “Well, well, well,” came her reply, eventually. “A fascinating answer.” Not even the most assiduous PMQs nerd could have seen what was coming next. She had, she explained, asked the exact same question, word for word, three months ago. And what reply did she get then? “He said the word ‘yes’ and sat down again with his smug grin.”

    As the late Richie Benaud liked to put it: “ash everywhere”. Starmer’s middle stump was doing cartwheels. It has been one of the prime minister’s preferred tactics, for a while, to give a one-word “yes” or “no” to a question that he considers beneath him, then sit down again and fail to conceal his self-satisfaction. It’s a tactic that would eventually come back to bite him, and it has
    .

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/bd45d0ec-7049-402e-afa5-63d570f0e982?shareToken=e49618dcb47162a0830d519d41eac712

    She did very well on the first two questions, and made him look a fool. Unfortunately she then wasted the next question suggesting that the solution to our economic woes is to abolish stamp duty. Some of the attacks after that on the lack of welfare reform were better, but she'd lost the momentum she had coming out of the first couple of questions.
    4/10 - could have easily been a 10/10 if she'd kept him squirming on the "but you promised not to increase taxes - if you do, you'll be a liar" hook she had half impaled him on.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,625
    isam said:

    Kemi skewered Sir Keir on his tax pledges at PMQs, and it was quite beautifully done

    At prime minister’s questions, Kemi Badenoch used her first question to ask precisely that. Does the manifesto commitment not to raise those three taxes still stand?

    “I’m glad she wants to talk about the economy,” came the answer, followed by more than a minute of untranscribable waffle. It was a yes/no question. A yes or a no would have done.

    Down on the opposition front benches, Badenoch did not try especially hard to conceal her delight. She grinned a grin of pure, malign pleasure. She looked, for a moment, like Tim Curry’s evil hotel concierge in Home Alone 2.

    “Well, well, well,” came her reply, eventually. “A fascinating answer.” Not even the most assiduous PMQs nerd could have seen what was coming next. She had, she explained, asked the exact same question, word for word, three months ago. And what reply did she get then? “He said the word ‘yes’ and sat down again with his smug grin.”

    As the late Richie Benaud liked to put it: “ash everywhere”. Starmer’s middle stump was doing cartwheels. It has been one of the prime minister’s preferred tactics, for a while, to give a one-word “yes” or “no” to a question that he considers beneath him, then sit down again and fail to conceal his self-satisfaction. It’s a tactic that would eventually come back to bite him, and it has
    .

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/bd45d0ec-7049-402e-afa5-63d570f0e982?shareToken=e49618dcb47162a0830d519d41eac712

    The polling numbers are steading. She's doing far better at PMQs of late.

    Whisper it perhaps, but as betting people we must always consider the possibilities.

    Will Badenoch still be leader at next GE in 2029?

    I'm liking the 5/1 BF are offering on her still be leader.

    Just taken a nibble.

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