Skip to content

My 100/1 tip to be our next Prime Minister – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,757
edited October 28 in General
My 100/1 tip to be our next Prime Minister – politicalbetting.com

We should be talking about David Lammy as our next PM. As Deputy PM he might be the best placed candidate if Sir Keir Starmer falls under the proverbial bus.

Read the full story here

«134567

Comments

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,106
    Morning from a windy Tyneside
  • isamisam Posts: 42,906
    I laid Rupert Lowe for £20 @ 25/1 on this market, I couldn’t understand how anyone could possibly think backing him at that price could be a good bet under any circumstances. It was that price for quite some time, actually dipped under 20 I think. Very strange
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,818
    It is a shame he didn't note drily that Jenrick cares so much about enforcing the law that he broke it himself on numerous occasions.
  • YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,799

    Morning from a windy Tyneside

    At least you’re not in Jamaica.

    They’re about to get hit with a massive hurricane.

    Pressure 900mb already, and winds over 300km/h measured inside the storm.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,672
    Worst party ever.
    What did Epstein get these medals for?

    https://x.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1982943701484687800?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Same, it's the reason I've pretty much stopped driving at night and I drive vehicles with normal headlights that can be seen from the moon even before I put them in beam.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,450
    edited October 28

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Same, it's the reason I've pretty much stopped driving at night and I drive vehicles with normal headlights that can be seen from the moon even before I put them in beam.
    The usual question arises, though. Enforcement with no traffic policemen - how?

    Clearly making the default safer is better - just like default speed limits in Wales which are delivering excellent results - but a significant % of vehicles are already out there with these already, so the cat is out of the bag.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,517
    edited October 28
    What did Lord Cameron (pbuh) once say about Twitter?

    Suella Braverman went full Leroooooy Jenkins on the release of Hadush Gerberslasie Kebatu and ended up deleting her tweet.

    https://www.thepoke.com/2025/10/27/suella-braverman-prison-self-own/
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,450
    Good morning everyone.

    Good tip - I've had a little nibble.

    I see that Farage can be laid at just over 5s.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,549
    edited October 28

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,105
    edited October 28
    Lammy is a bit lightweight but more charismatic and electable than Ed Miliband. He can also put in good performances in the Commons as his debate with Jenrick showed. He along with Wes Streeting would likely be the main Starmer loyalist contenders to succeed Starmer in the event Starmer resigned.

    Burnham is now the clear Prince over the water for the left of the Labour party but unlike Lammy not an MP at the moment so ineligible to stand for Labour leader and PM
  • Lammy was guffawing at questions about the release of the paedo under his watch

    He’s not a remotely serious candidate for even his own job

    No, he's point out that Jenrick and the Tories are hypocritical grifters.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,549
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Same, it's the reason I've pretty much stopped driving at night and I drive vehicles with normal headlights that can be seen from the moon even before I put them in beam.
    The usual question arises, though. Enforcement with no traffic policemen - how?
    Stopping manufacturers putting them in new cars.
    Stopping UK based retailers from selling them.
    Failing MOTs for cars with them in.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,701
    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Some cars these days have 'automatic' high beams
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,549
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Good tip - I've had a little nibble.

    I see that Farage can be laid at just over 5s.

    He can be backed at a similar price too.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,027
    edited October 28
    Good morning

    I think Lammy's performance yesterday was a sad reflection on our politics as he ranted and raved at the dispatch box that must have had the victims of this woeful affair watching in despair

    Passing the buck, then laughing, gesticulating, and pointing is exactly the reason politics is in the gutter at present

    It may delight some but I expect the public turned away in disgust
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,549

    Good morning

    I think Lammy's performance yesterday was a sad reflection on our politics as he ranted and raved at the dispatch box that must have had the victims of thid woeful affair watching in despair

    Passing the buck, then laughing, gesticulatin, and pointing is exactly the reason politics is in the gutter at present

    It may delight some but I expect the public turned away in disgust

    Nothing to do with Jenrick pretending we havent had 14 years of cuts in funding to justice then?
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,547

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    That's fine for the Lib Dem ~100 target seats.

    But where do people vote tactically for the Greens? They have very few seats where they are the obvious challenger but a 16%+ vote share is a lot of wasted votes if evenly distributed.

    And, unlike the Lib Dems, they will mostly win seats by overturning Labour as incumbent.

    I suspect they'll be lots of seats where the Labour-Green vote easily surpasses Reforms, but Reform come through the middle to win. Some with Labour second, others with Greens second.

    A bit like Reform+Tory vote in many seats last time.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,450
    An interesting wrinkle.

    The $130m "anonymous" donation to pay military salaries for (if I have this right) Trump's forces invading US cities came from a Tim Mellon (yes, that one).
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/25/timothy-mellon-donor-military-pay-shutdown

    The Mellon Bank was tied up in Epstein's finances, and are now subject to a legal action from victims around various financial regulations and non-disclosure.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/27/jeffrey-epstein-lawsuit-us-banks
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,105

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    Labour and the Tories now tied and only just ahead of the Greens and LDs shows that both the main parties are finding it difficult to distinguish themselves. Labour are losing votes to their left to the Greens and to the centre to the LDs and the Tories have already lost the right to Reform and under Kemi are losing centrist voters to the LDs as well.

    Reform ahead clearly but only on 27% so still very vulnerable to anti Farage tactical voting
  • Good morning

    I think Lammy's performance yesterday was a sad reflection on our politics as he ranted and raved at the dispatch box that must have had the victims of thid woeful affair watching in despair

    Passing the buck, then laughing, gesticulatin, and pointing is exactly the reason politics is in the gutter at present

    It may delight some but I expect the public turned away in disgust

    Nothing to do with Jenrick pretending we havent had 14 years of cuts in funding to justice then?
    It's a fair point but Lammy losing it at the dispatch box did politics no favours with the public (if they were watching)
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,804

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Same, it's the reason I've pretty much stopped driving at night and I drive vehicles with normal headlights that can be seen from the moon even before I put them in beam.
    Remember the old ‘don’t dazzle, dip’ ads in the seventies
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,794
    I see that 100 has been snuffled up quickly!
    Luckily had a couple of quid on from several months ago :)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,549

    Good morning

    I think Lammy's performance yesterday was a sad reflection on our politics as he ranted and raved at the dispatch box that must have had the victims of thid woeful affair watching in despair

    Passing the buck, then laughing, gesticulatin, and pointing is exactly the reason politics is in the gutter at present

    It may delight some but I expect the public turned away in disgust

    Nothing to do with Jenrick pretending we havent had 14 years of cuts in funding to justice then?
    It's a fair point but Lammy losing it at the dispatch box did politics no favours with the public (if they were watching)
    Two thirds of the country didn't vote for Labour. Of the third that did, some will be disappointed that they are not left wing enough, others only voted Labour as they didn't like the Tories. The press are mostly anti Labour too. None of us like the economic situation and that we can't afford what we would like, including a functioning justice system.

    So I would suggest whatever Labour say does them no favours with the public anymore.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,556
    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    My favourite part is how it looks like they're flashing at you every time they go over a speed bump. Just delightful.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,818
    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Some cars these days have 'automatic' high beams
    Although even when it works, modern LED lights are still absurdly bright and seem not to grasp that actually, you don't want the light to be the same level on the off side as the near side.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,822

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Voting Green makes no tactical sense. Ergo, the Greens will be squeezed, if Reform are on c.30%, in 2029. I’d expect half those currently saying they will vote Green to support Labour, on the day.

    The Lib Dem vote is concentrated in 120 seats. Outside those seats, their support will remain minute. Conversely, Labour supporters in those 120 seats will continue to vote tactically for the Lib Dem’s.

    In Red Wall seats, the Thames Estuary, and the West Country, I’d expect the Conservative vote to collapse, in favour of Reform. Elsewhere, their support should hold up better.

    I don’t expect much tactical voting in favour of the Conservatives, to keep out Reform.



  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,549
    Ratters said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    That's fine for the Lib Dem ~100 target seats.

    But where do people vote tactically for the Greens? They have very few seats where they are the obvious challenger but a 16%+ vote share is a lot of wasted votes if evenly distributed.

    And, unlike the Lib Dems, they will mostly win seats by overturning Labour as incumbent.

    I suspect they'll be lots of seats where the Labour-Green vote easily surpasses Reforms, but Reform come through the middle to win. Some with Labour second, others with Greens second.

    A bit like Reform+Tory vote in many seats last time.
    Others will be far better placed to answer that than me, but North Herefordshire was interesting last time, with the Greens going from never better than 4th to 1st with 43% in a single cycle.

    Perhaps as we get closer to the GE, and have more up to date local election results, things might become a little clearer.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,105

    Ratters said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    That's fine for the Lib Dem ~100 target seats.

    But where do people vote tactically for the Greens? They have very few seats where they are the obvious challenger but a 16%+ vote share is a lot of wasted votes if evenly distributed.

    And, unlike the Lib Dems, they will mostly win seats by overturning Labour as incumbent.

    I suspect they'll be lots of seats where the Labour-Green vote easily surpasses Reforms, but Reform come through the middle to win. Some with Labour second, others with Greens second.

    A bit like Reform+Tory vote in many seats last time.
    Others will be far better placed to answer that than me, but North Herefordshire was interesting last time, with the Greens going from never better than 4th to 1st with 43% in a single cycle.

    Perhaps as we get closer to the GE, and have more up to date local election results, things might become a little clearer.
    Yes North Herefordshire is one of the few areas where the Greens will be Reform's main opponents, parts of rural Suffolk as well so there anti Reform tactical voters will vote Green.

    Most seats where the Greens poll highest though will be inner city and university town constituencies where Labour will be their main opponents and Reform won't be contenders. In such areas you might even get a few Tories tactically voting Starmer Labour to beat the hard left Polanski led Greens
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,054
    Good morning, everyone.

    Longer walks are a good thing. Although, 'long' appears to be 15 minutes or more, which isn't a huge amount...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0gw6p8dllo
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,549
    HYUFD said:

    Ratters said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    That's fine for the Lib Dem ~100 target seats.

    But where do people vote tactically for the Greens? They have very few seats where they are the obvious challenger but a 16%+ vote share is a lot of wasted votes if evenly distributed.

    And, unlike the Lib Dems, they will mostly win seats by overturning Labour as incumbent.

    I suspect they'll be lots of seats where the Labour-Green vote easily surpasses Reforms, but Reform come through the middle to win. Some with Labour second, others with Greens second.

    A bit like Reform+Tory vote in many seats last time.
    Others will be far better placed to answer that than me, but North Herefordshire was interesting last time, with the Greens going from never better than 4th to 1st with 43% in a single cycle.

    Perhaps as we get closer to the GE, and have more up to date local election results, things might become a little clearer.
    Yes North Herefordshire is one of the few areas where the Greens will be Reform's main opponents, parts of rural Suffolk as well so there anti Reform tactical voters will vote Green.

    Most seats where the Greens poll highest though will be inner city and university town constituencies where Labour will be their main opponents and Reform won't be contenders. In such areas you might even get a few Tories tactically voting Starmer Labour to beat the hard left Polanski led Greens
    That has been true for the last few decades but is it still valid if current polling is sustained or even continues further away from the traditional big two?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,384
    Sean_F said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Voting Green makes no tactical sense. Ergo, the Greens will be squeezed, if Reform are on c.30%, in 2029. I’d expect half those currently saying they will vote Green to support Labour, on the day.

    The Lib Dem vote is concentrated in 120 seats. Outside those seats, their support will remain minute. Conversely, Labour supporters in those 120 seats will continue to vote tactically for the Lib Dem’s.

    In Red Wall seats, the Thames Estuary, and the West Country, I’d expect the Conservative vote to collapse, in favour of Reform. Elsewhere, their support should hold up better.

    I don’t expect much tactical voting in favour of the Conservatives, to keep out Reform.



    Voting Green might (mostly) make no tactical sense, but how many of their voters are bothered about that? A lot hangs on that question.

    Plenty of voters across the spectrum are happy to cut off their nose to spite their face. The usual story is "I couldn't vote for [politician], because they were insufficiently [desired attribute]. Frankly it's [politician]'s fault that [much less desirable politician] won." But how many is plenty?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,105
    edited October 28
    Sean_F said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Voting Green makes no tactical sense. Ergo, the Greens will be squeezed, if Reform are on c.30%, in 2029. I’d expect half those currently saying they will vote Green to support Labour, on the day.

    The Lib Dem vote is concentrated in 120 seats. Outside those seats, their support will remain minute. Conversely, Labour supporters in those 120 seats will continue to vote tactically for the Lib Dem’s.

    In Red Wall seats, the Thames Estuary, and the West Country, I’d expect the Conservative vote to collapse, in favour of Reform. Elsewhere, their support should hold up better.

    I don’t expect much tactical voting in favour of the Conservatives, to keep out Reform.



    There will be some, in our seat of Brentwood and Ongar the Tories and Reform were the top two even in 2024.
    Yougov have found a third of LDs, a quarter of Labour voters and even 10% of Greens would tactically vote Conservative to beat Reform.

    Those numbers would be even higher if a more centrist Tory like Cleverly led the Conservatives rather than hard right-wingers Kemi and Jenrick
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,054

    Sean_F said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Voting Green makes no tactical sense. Ergo, the Greens will be squeezed, if Reform are on c.30%, in 2029. I’d expect half those currently saying they will vote Green to support Labour, on the day.

    The Lib Dem vote is concentrated in 120 seats. Outside those seats, their support will remain minute. Conversely, Labour supporters in those 120 seats will continue to vote tactically for the Lib Dem’s.

    In Red Wall seats, the Thames Estuary, and the West Country, I’d expect the Conservative vote to collapse, in favour of Reform. Elsewhere, their support should hold up better.

    I don’t expect much tactical voting in favour of the Conservatives, to keep out Reform.



    Voting Green might (mostly) make no tactical sense, but how many of their voters are bothered about that? A lot hangs on that question.

    Plenty of voters across the spectrum are happy to cut off their nose to spite their face. The usual story is "I couldn't vote for [politician], because they were insufficiently [desired attribute]. Frankly it's [politician]'s fault that [much less desirable politician] won." But how many is plenty?
    If they were using sense they wouldn't be voting Green :p
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,598

    Sean_F said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Voting Green makes no tactical sense. Ergo, the Greens will be squeezed, if Reform are on c.30%, in 2029. I’d expect half those currently saying they will vote Green to support Labour, on the day.

    The Lib Dem vote is concentrated in 120 seats. Outside those seats, their support will remain minute. Conversely, Labour supporters in those 120 seats will continue to vote tactically for the Lib Dem’s.

    In Red Wall seats, the Thames Estuary, and the West Country, I’d expect the Conservative vote to collapse, in favour of Reform. Elsewhere, their support should hold up better.

    I don’t expect much tactical voting in favour of the Conservatives, to keep out Reform.



    Voting Green might (mostly) make no tactical sense, but how many of their voters are bothered about that? A lot hangs on that question.

    Plenty of voters across the spectrum are happy to cut off their nose to spite their face. The usual story is "I couldn't vote for [politician], because they were insufficiently [desired attribute]. Frankly it's [politician]'s fault that [much less desirable politician] won." But how many is plenty?
    If they were using sense they wouldn't be voting Green :p
    These polling numbers for Greens are a complete waste of time until YourParty is up and running. I expect 1/3 or even 1/2 of the Green poll to move across as they are leftwing voters who want the most leftist party they can find.

    Of course there is a decent chance that Sultana and Corbyn and co don't get their act together.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,799
    Might we about to see an end to the US government shutdown?

    Largest federal workers’ union is urging Democrat senators to vote for the continuing resolution so that paychecks go out at the end of the month.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2025/10/27/federal-union-government-shutdown-end.html

    The biggest union representing federal workers urged Democrats in Congress to end the ongoing U.S. government shutdown.
    Everett Kelley, president of the American Federation of Government Employees, called for the passage of a stopgap funding measure that Republicans have proposed
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,710
    Wow. Lammy had certainly had his Weetabix that morning!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,818
    edited October 28
    Sandpit said:

    Might we about to see an end to the US government shutdown?

    Largest federal workers’ union is urging Democrat senators to vote for the continuing resolution so that paychecks go out at the end of the month.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2025/10/27/federal-union-government-shutdown-end.html

    The biggest union representing federal workers urged Democrats in Congress to end the ongoing U.S. government shutdown.
    Everett Kelley, president of the American Federation of Government Employees, called for the passage of a stopgap funding measure that Republicans have proposed

    Possibly, although I don't see the Democrats relenting without a full recall of Congress. Nor should they, constitutionally speaking, although constitutions (especially bad ones) don't put bread on the table.

    It depends on whether they worry that they will get the blame for it (Trump will of course blame them anyway, but they won't worry about him or his sycophants, it's their own supporters they will be thinking of).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,598
    HYUFD said:

    Ratters said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    That's fine for the Lib Dem ~100 target seats.

    But where do people vote tactically for the Greens? They have very few seats where they are the obvious challenger but a 16%+ vote share is a lot of wasted votes if evenly distributed.

    And, unlike the Lib Dems, they will mostly win seats by overturning Labour as incumbent.

    I suspect they'll be lots of seats where the Labour-Green vote easily surpasses Reforms, but Reform come through the middle to win. Some with Labour second, others with Greens second.

    A bit like Reform+Tory vote in many seats last time.
    Others will be far better placed to answer that than me, but North Herefordshire was interesting last time, with the Greens going from never better than 4th to 1st with 43% in a single cycle.

    Perhaps as we get closer to the GE, and have more up to date local election results, things might become a little clearer.
    Yes North Herefordshire is one of the few areas where the Greens will be Reform's main opponents, parts of rural Suffolk as well so there anti Reform tactical voters will vote Green.

    Most seats where the Greens poll highest though will be inner city and university town constituencies where Labour will be their main opponents and Reform won't be contenders. In such areas you might even get a few Tories tactically voting Starmer Labour to beat the hard left Polanski led Greens
    I don't see how Greens retain these rural seats under Zack P and his 'abolish landlords' type of green-tinged hard left thinking.

    But maybe Ellie Chowns and co will have built up a strong enough personal vote by being good MPs as often happens with first time incumbants.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,528
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Same, it's the reason I've pretty much stopped driving at night and I drive vehicles with normal headlights that can be seen from the moon even before I put them in beam.
    The usual question arises, though. Enforcement with no traffic policemen - how?

    Clearly making the default safer is better - just like default speed limits in Wales which are delivering excellent results - but a significant % of vehicles are already out there with these already, so the cat is out of the bag.
    MOT test? Incidentally, my Sainsbury's lift-giver swears by the anti-glare glasses that you recommended.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,105
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Voting Green makes no tactical sense. Ergo, the Greens will be squeezed, if Reform are on c.30%, in 2029. I’d expect half those currently saying they will vote Green to support Labour, on the day.

    The Lib Dem vote is concentrated in 120 seats. Outside those seats, their support will remain minute. Conversely, Labour supporters in those 120 seats will continue to vote tactically for the Lib Dem’s.

    In Red Wall seats, the Thames Estuary, and the West Country, I’d expect the Conservative vote to collapse, in favour of Reform. Elsewhere, their support should hold up better.

    I don’t expect much tactical voting in favour of the Conservatives, to keep out Reform.



    There will be some, in our seat of Brentwood and Ongar the Tories and Reform were the top two even in 2024.
    Yougov have found a third of LDs, a quarter of Labour voters and even 10% of Greens would tactically vote Conservative to beat Reform.

    Those numbers would be even higher if a more centrist Tory like Cleverly led the Conservatives rather than hard right-wingers Kemi and Jenrick
    "Is tactical voting more of a threat or opportunity for Reform UK? | YouGov" https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51713-is-tactical-voting-more-of-a-threat-or-opportunity-for-reform-uk
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,528
    Productivity downgrade may add £20bn to Budget hole
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0rpve82jxvo

    The doomsters and gloomsters at the OBR have plucked another number out of thin air.
  • HYUFD said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    Labour and the Tories now tied and only just ahead of the Greens and LDs shows that both the main parties are finding it difficult to distinguish themselves. Labour are losing votes to their left to the Greens and to the centre to the LDs and the Tories have already lost the right to Reform and under Kemi are losing centrist voters to the LDs as well.

    Reform ahead clearly but only on 27% so still very vulnerable to anti Farage tactical voting
    It's a fascinating time to be involved in politics! There is a very simple message from the electorate - they're mad as hell and they're not going to take it any more. The party who can offer the most convincing fix for the mess will win.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,818

    HYUFD said:

    Ratters said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    That's fine for the Lib Dem ~100 target seats.

    But where do people vote tactically for the Greens? They have very few seats where they are the obvious challenger but a 16%+ vote share is a lot of wasted votes if evenly distributed.

    And, unlike the Lib Dems, they will mostly win seats by overturning Labour as incumbent.

    I suspect they'll be lots of seats where the Labour-Green vote easily surpasses Reforms, but Reform come through the middle to win. Some with Labour second, others with Greens second.

    A bit like Reform+Tory vote in many seats last time.
    Others will be far better placed to answer that than me, but North Herefordshire was interesting last time, with the Greens going from never better than 4th to 1st with 43% in a single cycle.

    Perhaps as we get closer to the GE, and have more up to date local election results, things might become a little clearer.
    Yes North Herefordshire is one of the few areas where the Greens will be Reform's main opponents, parts of rural Suffolk as well so there anti Reform tactical voters will vote Green.

    Most seats where the Greens poll highest though will be inner city and university town constituencies where Labour will be their main opponents and Reform won't be contenders. In such areas you might even get a few Tories tactically voting Starmer Labour to beat the hard left Polanski led Greens
    I don't see how Greens retain these rural seats under Zack P and his 'abolish landlords' type of green-tinged hard left thinking.

    But maybe Ellie Chowns and co will have built up a strong enough personal vote by being good MPs as often happens with first time incumbants.

    North Herefordshire is unusual because there was a major and damaging pollution incident that the Greens were able to exploit. It depends on whether and how that is dealt with as to what happens to that seat, although it's also a place various luvvies are moving to from London (like the Stroud Valley).
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,248

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,105

    HYUFD said:

    Ratters said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    That's fine for the Lib Dem ~100 target seats.

    But where do people vote tactically for the Greens? They have very few seats where they are the obvious challenger but a 16%+ vote share is a lot of wasted votes if evenly distributed.

    And, unlike the Lib Dems, they will mostly win seats by overturning Labour as incumbent.

    I suspect they'll be lots of seats where the Labour-Green vote easily surpasses Reforms, but Reform come through the middle to win. Some with Labour second, others with Greens second.

    A bit like Reform+Tory vote in many seats last time.
    Others will be far better placed to answer that than me, but North Herefordshire was interesting last time, with the Greens going from never better than 4th to 1st with 43% in a single cycle.

    Perhaps as we get closer to the GE, and have more up to date local election results, things might become a little clearer.
    Yes North Herefordshire is one of the few areas where the Greens will be Reform's main opponents, parts of rural Suffolk as well so there anti Reform tactical voters will vote Green.

    Most seats where the Greens poll highest though will be inner city and university town constituencies where Labour will be their main opponents and Reform won't be contenders. In such areas you might even get a few Tories tactically voting Starmer Labour to beat the hard left Polanski led Greens
    That has been true for the last few decades but is it still valid if current polling is sustained or even continues further away from the traditional big two?
    Unless the Greens overtake the Tories, Labour and LDs in the polls to become the main alternative to Reform then yes.

    In that case the two main parties could face near wipeout, with leftwing voters going Green, centrist voters going Liberal Democrat and rightwing voters going Reform
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,818
    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
    Not if they've any sense. The Liberal Democrats will explain to you what happens next...
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,915
    edited October 28

    HYUFD said:

    Ratters said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    That's fine for the Lib Dem ~100 target seats.

    But where do people vote tactically for the Greens? They have very few seats where they are the obvious challenger but a 16%+ vote share is a lot of wasted votes if evenly distributed.

    And, unlike the Lib Dems, they will mostly win seats by overturning Labour as incumbent.

    I suspect they'll be lots of seats where the Labour-Green vote easily surpasses Reforms, but Reform come through the middle to win. Some with Labour second, others with Greens second.

    A bit like Reform+Tory vote in many seats last time.
    Others will be far better placed to answer that than me, but North Herefordshire was interesting last time, with the Greens going from never better than 4th to 1st with 43% in a single cycle.

    Perhaps as we get closer to the GE, and have more up to date local election results, things might become a little clearer.
    Yes North Herefordshire is one of the few areas where the Greens will be Reform's main opponents, parts of rural Suffolk as well so there anti Reform tactical voters will vote Green.

    Most seats where the Greens poll highest though will be inner city and university town constituencies where Labour will be their main opponents and Reform won't be contenders. In such areas you might even get a few Tories tactically voting Starmer Labour to beat the hard left Polanski led Greens
    I don't see how Greens retain these rural seats under Zack P and his 'abolish landlords' type of green-tinged hard left thinking.

    But maybe Ellie Chowns and co will have built up a strong enough personal vote by being good MPs as often happens with first time incumbants.

    Like the other leaders, he may not last that long. His previous line of work comes with some implicit reputational risk going forward.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,818

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Same, it's the reason I've pretty much stopped driving at night and I drive vehicles with normal headlights that can be seen from the moon even before I put them in beam.
    The usual question arises, though. Enforcement with no traffic policemen - how?

    Clearly making the default safer is better - just like default speed limits in Wales which are delivering excellent results - but a significant % of vehicles are already out there with these already, so the cat is out of the bag.
    MOT test? Incidentally, my Sainsbury's lift-giver swears by the anti-glare glasses that you recommended.
    Which ones are they? Asking purely for myself.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,549
    edited October 28
    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
    What the left of centre parties do is different to what the LLG voters do. An ex Cameroon Conservative may well be in the LLG block as is an always voted Labour Brownite, as are Corbynites and committed Greens.

    Good luck with finding a single unifying winning policy platform for that lot.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,804

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    Labour and the Tories now tied and only just ahead of the Greens and LDs shows that both the main parties are finding it difficult to distinguish themselves. Labour are losing votes to their left to the Greens and to the centre to the LDs and the Tories have already lost the right to Reform and under Kemi are losing centrist voters to the LDs as well.

    Reform ahead clearly but only on 27% so still very vulnerable to anti Farage tactical voting
    It's a fascinating time to be involved in politics! There is a very simple message from the electorate - they're mad as hell and they're not going to take it any more. The party who can offer the most convincing fix for the mess will win.
    That’s your lot out then.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,804

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Same, it's the reason I've pretty much stopped driving at night and I drive vehicles with normal headlights that can be seen from the moon even before I put them in beam.
    The usual question arises, though. Enforcement with no traffic policemen - how?

    Clearly making the default safer is better - just like default speed limits in Wales which are delivering excellent results - but a significant % of vehicles are already out there with these already, so the cat is out of the bag.
    MOT test? Incidentally, my Sainsbury's lift-giver swears by the anti-glare glasses that you recommended.
    Vehicle lighting, including light aim, is already tested as part of the MOT.

    https://motester.co.uk/mot-test-of-lights/
  • HYUFD said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    Labour and the Tories now tied and only just ahead of the Greens and LDs shows that both the main parties are finding it difficult to distinguish themselves. Labour are losing votes to their left to the Greens and to the centre to the LDs and the Tories have already lost the right to Reform and under Kemi are losing centrist voters to the LDs as well.

    Reform ahead clearly but only on 27% so still very vulnerable to anti Farage tactical voting
    It's a fascinating time to be involved in politics! There is a very simple message from the electorate - they're mad as hell and they're not going to take it any more. The party who can offer the most convincing fix for the mess will win.
    You don't think the winner will be the Party offering the most attractive illusion?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,598
    The difference between Your Party and the Greens is that the latter is a party made up of middle-class utopians, which appeals to a demographic that is spread thinly across the entire country. Your Party on the other hand are rooted in a community with a far more realistic grasp of the nature of power and the getting of it.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/27/corbyns-your-party-will-beat-greens/?recomm_id=1ae7e4db-f6c8-4a7e-b8dc-cb0df8907176
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,902
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Same, it's the reason I've pretty much stopped driving at night and I drive vehicles with normal headlights that can be seen from the moon even before I put them in beam.
    The usual question arises, though. Enforcement with no traffic policemen - how?

    Clearly making the default safer is better - just like default speed limits in Wales which are delivering excellent results - but a significant % of vehicles are already out there with these already, so the cat is out of the bag.
    MOT test? Incidentally, my Sainsbury's lift-giver swears by the anti-glare glasses that you recommended.
    Vehicle lighting, including light aim, is already tested as part of the MOT.

    https://motester.co.uk/mot-test-of-lights/
    As with many, many other things, writing increasingly long documents isn't the answer. It's enforcement.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,794
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Same, it's the reason I've pretty much stopped driving at night and I drive vehicles with normal headlights that can be seen from the moon even before I put them in beam.
    The usual question arises, though. Enforcement with no traffic policemen - how?

    Clearly making the default safer is better - just like default speed limits in Wales which are delivering excellent results - but a significant % of vehicles are already out there with these already, so the cat is out of the bag.
    MOT test? Incidentally, my Sainsbury's lift-giver swears by the anti-glare glasses that you recommended.
    Vehicle lighting, including light aim, is already tested as part of the MOT.

    https://motester.co.uk/mot-test-of-lights/
    If these are after-market changes then the car owner will swap them in and out to pass the MOT, so it may catch some of the numpties but not all
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,902

    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
    What the left of centre parties do is different to what the LLG voters do. An ex Cameroon Conservative may well be in the LLG block as is an always voted Labour Brownite, as are Corbynites and committed Greens.

    Good luck with finding a single unifying winning policy platform for that lot.
    I think I could have a go at creating a policy platform that 50% of the electorate would vote for.
  • Interesting suggestion, TSE, and I may take it up, although the juxtaposition of the words 'lawyerly' and 'brilliance' rather undermines the case.
  • Good morning

    I think Lammy's performance yesterday was a sad reflection on our politics as he ranted and raved at the dispatch box that must have had the victims of this woeful affair watching in despair

    Passing the buck, then laughing, gesticulating, and pointing is exactly the reason politics is in the gutter at present

    It may delight some but I expect the public turned away in disgust

    I understand your reaction, but perhaps you have missed what he is reacting to.

    The Tories are pretending that everything happened after they were demolished last year. All Labour. So we now have Coutinho attacking the policies she literally crowed about as SofS for Energy, Jenrick stood outside an asylum hotel he opened as SofS demanding it be closed etc etc etc.

    Jenrick says there needs to be an independent enquiry of the kind he never enacted when it happened under his watch. Braverman went one further, huffing and puffing about this release until someone pointed out the Exact Same Thing happened when she was Home Secretary. Badenoch saying "the Tories have a plan to" do all the things they didn't do for 14 years.

    So yeah, Lammy got angry, because your party are grifting hypocrites. And its all over social media, elected Tories and their shills posting stuff that just gets laughed at. People aren't stupid, they remember last year, the year zero strategy isn't working. And Jenrick is supposed to be next in line...
    Labour are now one third into their term in office and, whilst baming the previous government, the public expect them to take responsibility and not blame everyone else but themselves

    The public are not like us as political obsessives but see a government in free fall and seem to have concluded labour are not the answer

    Indeed todays poll show exactly that and even has the Lib Dems in 5th place

    Lord Ashcroft's poll today just demonstrates how little day to day skirmishes cut through despite all of us thinking they are important

    The country is ungovernable and I have no answer to how we can get out of this complete mess

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/10/digital-id-china-the-echr-stamp-duty-net-zero-the-budget-and-who-will-be-pm-after-the-next-election/
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,794
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    Labour and the Tories now tied and only just ahead of the Greens and LDs shows that both the main parties are finding it difficult to distinguish themselves. Labour are losing votes to their left to the Greens and to the centre to the LDs and the Tories have already lost the right to Reform and under Kemi are losing centrist voters to the LDs as well.

    Reform ahead clearly but only on 27% so still very vulnerable to anti Farage tactical voting
    It's a fascinating time to be involved in politics! There is a very simple message from the electorate - they're mad as hell and they're not going to take it any more. The party who can offer the most convincing fix for the mess will win.
    That’s your lot out then.
    RP is wrong in any case, it's the party that offers the most magical solution that will win

    They're still in with a chance ;)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,549

    The difference between Your Party and the Greens is that the latter is a party made up of middle-class utopians, which appeals to a demographic that is spread thinly across the entire country. Your Party on the other hand are rooted in a community with a far more realistic grasp of the nature of power and the getting of it.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/27/corbyns-your-party-will-beat-greens/?recomm_id=1ae7e4db-f6c8-4a7e-b8dc-cb0df8907176

    There are a few other differences too.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,490
    Morning all :)

    An excellent intervention by Lammy and it bears repeating even though some of the Conservatives on here don't want to hear it.

    To be fair, the Tories were wittering on about the Winter of Discontent when Blair became Labour leader so they can't really complain about having their past failings laid bare.

    YouGov is another interesting poll though what it actually tells us I'm not sure given we are probably three and a half years off an election and if we consider opinion to be volatile now, think how much can happen in that time.

    This morning, it's the plight of Jamaica which is concerning. A storm of that power and magnitude has been rare but the idea of wind gusts up to 200mph and 40 inches of rain is a bit more than your average British Bank Holiday in truth. I can only hope the preparations made by the Jamaicans will be adequate but the infrastructure damage will likely be immense and they will need plenty of help to get back on their feet.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,804
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Same, it's the reason I've pretty much stopped driving at night and I drive vehicles with normal headlights that can be seen from the moon even before I put them in beam.
    The usual question arises, though. Enforcement with no traffic policemen - how?

    Clearly making the default safer is better - just like default speed limits in Wales which are delivering excellent results - but a significant % of vehicles are already out there with these already, so the cat is out of the bag.
    There’s nothing to enforce. These lights are road legal if OEM fit. They also test them as part of the MOT and will fail a car if it does not meet the criteria.

    Change the spec to appease a few complainants by all means but the reality is it is not an overnight fix, there’d be an,out of compliance and validation tests and would be very hard to apply retrospectively.

    I worked in vehicle lighting for a few years up in Cannock and in Brum and these lights have to meet strict criteria to be able to be used on the road including the position of the beam.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,105
    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
    Though tactical voting was how Carney's Liberals came from behind to beat Poilievre's Conservatives in the Canadian election earlier this year.

    Second ballot votes helped the left and Macron's centrist block overhaul the first round lead for Le Pen's party in the French legislative election last year.

    Plaid won the Caerphilly by election with Labour tactical votes to beat Reform last week too.

    Jenrick and probably Kemi would back a Farage minority government on confidence and supply

    A Cleverly led Conservatives likely would not
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,549

    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
    What the left of centre parties do is different to what the LLG voters do. An ex Cameroon Conservative may well be in the LLG block as is an always voted Labour Brownite, as are Corbynites and committed Greens.

    Good luck with finding a single unifying winning policy platform for that lot.
    I think I could have a go at creating a policy platform that 50% of the electorate would vote for.
    Everyone with a NI number that ends in an odd number has to give all their wealth and future income to the person with the nearest NI ending in an even number?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,348
    edited October 28
    Dopermean said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Same, it's the reason I've pretty much stopped driving at night and I drive vehicles with normal headlights that can be seen from the moon even before I put them in beam.
    The usual question arises, though. Enforcement with no traffic policemen - how?

    Clearly making the default safer is better - just like default speed limits in Wales which are delivering excellent results - but a significant % of vehicles are already out there with these already, so the cat is out of the bag.
    MOT test? Incidentally, my Sainsbury's lift-giver swears by the anti-glare glasses that you recommended.
    Vehicle lighting, including light aim, is already tested as part of the MOT.

    https://motester.co.uk/mot-test-of-lights/
    If these are after-market changes then the car owner will swap them in and out to pass the MOT, so it may catch some of the numpties but not all
    At least some of the problem is height - if I have a pickup truck or a big SUV behind me, their lights are pretty much at my eye level in my hatchback.

    Don't have the same issue with lorries/buses, but their lights tend to be much lower down. I have no data to support this - a lived experience insight.
  • Andy_JS said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
    What the left of centre parties do is different to what the LLG voters do. An ex Cameroon Conservative may well be in the LLG block as is an always voted Labour Brownite, as are Corbynites and committed Greens.

    Good luck with finding a single unifying winning policy platform for that lot.
    PR?
  • ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Yes, it's a problem for me too, but it includes those blinding flashing lights on bicycles. They should be illegal, but can't see anything being done about them.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,818
    edited October 28

    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
    What the left of centre parties do is different to what the LLG voters do. An ex Cameroon Conservative may well be in the LLG block as is an always voted Labour Brownite, as are Corbynites and committed Greens.

    Good luck with finding a single unifying winning policy platform for that lot.
    I think I could have a go at creating a policy platform that 50% of the electorate would vote for.
    Everyone with a NI number that ends in an odd number has to give all their wealth and future income to the person with the nearest NI ending in an even number?
    Adopting the famous suggestion of Dick and Jack Cade?

    DICK: The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
    CADE: Nay, that I mean to do. Is not this a lamentable
    thing, that of the skin of an innocent lamb should
    be made parchment? that parchment, being scribbled
    o'er, should undo a man? Some say the bee stings:
    but I say, 'tis the bee's wax; for I did but seal
    once to a thing, and I was never mine own man
    since.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,384
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
    Not if they've any sense. The Liberal Democrats will explain to you what happens next...
    Though the only advice to give the Conservatives then is "I wouldn't start from here". They're probably doomed whatever happens.

    The options are:

    1 Back Reform in a coalition. Almost certain death next time.

    2 Buttress Reform, either in a formal C+S arrangement or informally. Less blood on hands (see tuition fees), but also less power. And in practice, just as much of the blame for the bad stuff you didn't vote against.

    3 Oppose Reform with variable degrees of organisation. Let Nigel try to run a minority government with whatever bunch of grumpy gadflies get elected. Probably safest, but that just highlights how irrelevant the Conservatives would have become. And opposing their brother right-wingers would send the bulk of the party dolally (see 2010).

    Small parties often fantasise about being The Kingmaker- having the outsized power to choose between two viable governments. It hardly ever happens that way. Partly realpolitik, but mostly arithmetic.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,794

    Productivity downgrade may add £20bn to Budget hole
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0rpve82jxvo

    The doomsters and gloomsters at the OBR have plucked another number out of thin air.

    Brown's legacy was removing one of the main levers from the CoE control that has generally resulted in a "steady as you are" approach to interest rate changes
    Osborne's legacy is the CoE having to second-guess the next inaccurate forecast from the OBR before it upends their medium-term plan
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,528
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Same, it's the reason I've pretty much stopped driving at night and I drive vehicles with normal headlights that can be seen from the moon even before I put them in beam.
    The usual question arises, though. Enforcement with no traffic policemen - how?

    Clearly making the default safer is better - just like default speed limits in Wales which are delivering excellent results - but a significant % of vehicles are already out there with these already, so the cat is out of the bag.
    MOT test? Incidentally, my Sainsbury's lift-giver swears by the anti-glare glasses that you recommended.
    Which ones are they? Asking purely for myself.
    Not sure. You can see the sort of thing in this range:-
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/URUMQI/page/4A41E00C-C624-412D-8E4D-BED6198DDB9B

    Or when you next get new prescription glasses, ask your optician for the right coating. Yellow for driving. Blue for computers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,818
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
    Though tactical voting was how Carney's Liberals came from behind to beat Poilievre's Conservatives in the Canadian election earlier this year.

    Second ballot votes helped the left and Macron's centrist block overhaul the first round lead for Le Pen's party in the French legislative election last year.

    Plaid won the Caerphilly by election with Labour tactical votes to beat Reform last week too.

    Jenrick and probably Kemi would back a Farage minority government on confidence and supply

    A Cleverly led Conservatives likely would not
    We don't know that for certain, although I agree it's the likeliest explanation of the ones available right now.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,818
    edited October 28

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Same, it's the reason I've pretty much stopped driving at night and I drive vehicles with normal headlights that can be seen from the moon even before I put them in beam.
    The usual question arises, though. Enforcement with no traffic policemen - how?

    Clearly making the default safer is better - just like default speed limits in Wales which are delivering excellent results - but a significant % of vehicles are already out there with these already, so the cat is out of the bag.
    MOT test? Incidentally, my Sainsbury's lift-giver swears by the anti-glare glasses that you recommended.
    Which ones are they? Asking purely for myself.
    Not sure. You can see the sort of thing in this range:-
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/URUMQI/page/4A41E00C-C624-412D-8E4D-BED6198DDB9B

    Or when you next get new prescription glasses, ask your optician for the right coating. Yellow for driving. Blue for computers.
    I don't wear glasses...but I will check those links out. Thanks
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,672
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
    Though tactical voting was how Carney's Liberals came from behind to beat Poilievre's Conservatives in the Canadian election earlier this year.

    Second ballot votes helped the left and Macron's centrist block overhaul the first round lead for Le Pen's party in the French legislative election last year.

    Plaid won the Caerphilly by election with Labour tactical votes to beat Reform last week too.

    Jenrick and probably Kemi would back a Farage minority government on confidence and supply

    A Cleverly led Conservatives likely would not
    Cleverly led Conservatives, the finest oxymoron I’ll see today.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,843
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Same, it's the reason I've pretty much stopped driving at night and I drive vehicles with normal headlights that can be seen from the moon even before I put them in beam.
    The usual question arises, though. Enforcement with no traffic policemen - how?

    Clearly making the default safer is better - just like default speed limits in Wales which are delivering excellent results - but a significant % of vehicles are already out there with these already, so the cat is out of the bag.
    There’s nothing to enforce. These lights are road legal if OEM fit. They also test them as part of the MOT and will fail a car if it does not meet the criteria.

    Change the spec to appease a few complainants by all means but the reality is it is not an overnight fix, there’d be an,out of compliance and validation tests and would be very hard to apply retrospectively.

    I worked in vehicle lighting for a few years up in Cannock and in Brum and these lights have to meet strict criteria to be able to be used on the road including the position of the beam.
    From your experience, if the UK spec differs markedly from EU spec, will the manufacturers change? Running different specs through the same factory is a recipe for mistakes and costs, so wonder if they will do it.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,523
    edited October 28
    FPT @Eabhal
    Eabhal said:

    There are a lot of vocal people, not to mention cash-poor pensioners in London who care quite a lot about a supposed mansion tax.

    "Cash poor" is just a roundabout way of saying... rich.

    Most of these pensioners have not earned their £2 million houses at all; it's just pure luck that prices have exploded in places like London. If their cash flow means they have to downsize, they are still going to be sat on a huge pile of unearned wealth most of which will never see the tax man.

    It doesn't sound like my perfect policy but better than nothing.
    Let’s put some numbers on it for clarity. Using a £3m house as per the daily mail articles, generating a liability of £10k p.a.

    Assuming that the pensioner can’t afford this increase in outgoings they can their house right?

    The buyer needs to find £10k pa out of taxed income, which probably means they will take £400k off the price (£400k x 5% = 20k pre tax income = £10k post tax income).

    So the pensioner’s house is sellable at £2.6m (possibly a bit more because the buyer would have lower tax on a £2.6m house).

    Estate agent and legal fees and moving expenses of 3% so net proceeds of about £2.5m

    Let’s say they downsize to a £2m house because they can’t afford the additional tax on a larger property.

    That’s a further £150k in stamp duty.

    Which means that they end up with a £2m house and £350k in cash as a result of the downsize.

    An effective tax rate of 65% and, I suspect, will blow a hole in many people’s retirement plans.

    Property tax is messed up in the UK. But it shouldn’t just be a pot for a populist tax raid on “the rich”. They should replace stamp duty and council tax with an annual charge on all properties including a rollover relief.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,151

    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
    What the left of centre parties do is different to what the LLG voters do. An ex Cameroon Conservative may well be in the LLG block as is an always voted Labour Brownite, as are Corbynites and committed Greens.

    Good luck with finding a single unifying winning policy platform for that lot.
    I think I could have a go at creating a policy platform that 50% of the electorate would vote for.
    Everyone with a NI number that ends in an odd number has to give all their wealth and future income to the person with the nearest NI ending in an even number?
    My NINO ends in a capital letter. And a small but real percentage of the electorate have no NINO.

    (Incidentally I'm not sure NINOs are completely random; wartime identity card numbers certainly weren't, any more than car registration alphanumerics are today.)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,598

    The difference between Your Party and the Greens is that the latter is a party made up of middle-class utopians, which appeals to a demographic that is spread thinly across the entire country. Your Party on the other hand are rooted in a community with a far more realistic grasp of the nature of power and the getting of it.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/27/corbyns-your-party-will-beat-greens/?recomm_id=1ae7e4db-f6c8-4a7e-b8dc-cb0df8907176

    There are a few other differences too.
    Indeed, the article is mainly about the socialist-Muslim love-in in some seats driven by Gaza etc.

  • HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
    Though tactical voting was how Carney's Liberals came from behind to beat Poilievre's Conservatives in the Canadian election earlier this year.

    Second ballot votes helped the left and Macron's centrist block overhaul the first round lead for Le Pen's party in the French legislative election last year.

    Plaid won the Caerphilly by election with Labour tactical votes to beat Reform last week too.

    Jenrick and probably Kemi would back a Farage minority government on confidence and supply

    A Cleverly led Conservatives likely would not
    There were plenty of Conservatives who voted for Plaid to keep Reform out
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,549
    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
    What the left of centre parties do is different to what the LLG voters do. An ex Cameroon Conservative may well be in the LLG block as is an always voted Labour Brownite, as are Corbynites and committed Greens.

    Good luck with finding a single unifying winning policy platform for that lot.
    I think I could have a go at creating a policy platform that 50% of the electorate would vote for.
    Everyone with a NI number that ends in an odd number has to give all their wealth and future income to the person with the nearest NI ending in an even number?
    My NINO ends in a capital letter. And a small but real percentage of the electorate have no NINO.

    (Incidentally I'm not sure NINOs are completely random; wartime identity card numbers certainly weren't, any more than car registration alphanumerics are today.)
    I made sure I got one ending in an even number in case Malmesbury ever seizes power.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,348

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Yes, it's a problem for me too, but it includes those blinding flashing lights on bicycles. They should be illegal, but can't see anything being done about them.
    In Germany they have specific rules about bike lights - we could have the same given they are often higher than car lights and some brands are approaching the same brightness - mine are 900 lumen versus 1,500 in my car.

    But frankly the risk is much higher for the cyclist in not being seen, so there's no chance they'll try to restrict the lights.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,902

    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
    What the left of centre parties do is different to what the LLG voters do. An ex Cameroon Conservative may well be in the LLG block as is an always voted Labour Brownite, as are Corbynites and committed Greens.

    Good luck with finding a single unifying winning policy platform for that lot.
    I think I could have a go at creating a policy platform that 50% of the electorate would vote for.
    Everyone with a NI number that ends in an odd number has to give all their wealth and future income to the person with the nearest NI ending in an even number?
    You are Thanos and I claim my Infinity Stone.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,106
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Same, it's the reason I've pretty much stopped driving at night and I drive vehicles with normal headlights that can be seen from the moon even before I put them in beam.
    The usual question arises, though. Enforcement with no traffic policemen - how?

    Clearly making the default safer is better - just like default speed limits in Wales which are delivering excellent results - but a significant % of vehicles are already out there with these already, so the cat is out of the bag.
    There’s nothing to enforce. These lights are road legal if OEM fit. They also test them as part of the MOT and will fail a car if it does not meet the criteria.

    Change the spec to appease a few complainants by all means but the reality is it is not an overnight fix, there’d be an,out of compliance and validation tests and would be very hard to apply retrospectively.

    I worked in vehicle lighting for a few years up in Cannock and in Brum and these lights have to meet strict criteria to be able to be used on the road including the position of the beam.
    Isn’t the problem that all the regulations were written pre-LED so things like maximum wattage and beam patterns etc are no longer fit for purpose for low energy but high brightness matrix LEDs?
  • Good morning

    I think Lammy's performance yesterday was a sad reflection on our politics as he ranted and raved at the dispatch box that must have had the victims of this woeful affair watching in despair

    Passing the buck, then laughing, gesticulating, and pointing is exactly the reason politics is in the gutter at present

    It may delight some but I expect the public turned away in disgust

    I understand your reaction, but perhaps you have missed what he is reacting to.

    The Tories are pretending that everything happened after they were demolished last year. All Labour. So we now have Coutinho attacking the policies she literally crowed about as SofS for Energy, Jenrick stood outside an asylum hotel he opened as SofS demanding it be closed etc etc etc.

    Jenrick says there needs to be an independent enquiry of the kind he never enacted when it happened under his watch. Braverman went one further, huffing and puffing about this release until someone pointed out the Exact Same Thing happened when she was Home Secretary. Badenoch saying "the Tories have a plan to" do all the things they didn't do for 14 years.

    So yeah, Lammy got angry, because your party are grifting hypocrites. And its all over social media, elected Tories and their shills posting stuff that just gets laughed at. People aren't stupid, they remember last year, the year zero strategy isn't working. And Jenrick is supposed to be next in line...
    It's certainly the case that the entire criminal justice system languished desperately under the Conservatives, so Lammy was entitled to make the point forcibly.

    If his boss were better at making similar points in connection with other spheres of government he might be enjoying better ratings - although only slightly, as it is the incumbent that tends to get it in the neck, regardless.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,549
    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Yes, it's a problem for me too, but it includes those blinding flashing lights on bicycles. They should be illegal, but can't see anything being done about them.
    In Germany they have specific rules about bike lights - we could have the same given they are often higher than car lights and some brands are approaching the same brightness - mine are 900 lumen versus 1,500 in my car.

    But frankly the risk is much higher for the cyclist in not being seen, so there's no chance they'll try to restrict the lights.
    There are rules on bike lights.

    https://www.cyclinguk.org/lighting-regulations

    Since 2005, flashing bicycle lights are permitted to be used as sole lights, provided the light flashes between 60 and 240 times per minute (1-4Hz).
  • ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, good news and long overdue:

    Headlights to be reviewed after drivers complain of being 'blinded' at night
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn971jlpvvro

    I have unusually sensitive eyes and driving at night is becoming a highly unpleasant experience. Not only are many modern headlights far too bright (in some cases clearly illegally bright) but too few people seem to know how to use the dipper.

    Yes, it's a problem for me too, but it includes those blinding flashing lights on bicycles. They should be illegal, but can't see anything being done about them.
    As an ocular migraine sufferer I have problems with some of the modern car lighting and especially the flashing lights on bicycles
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,417
    edited October 28
    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
    What the left of centre parties do is different to what the LLG voters do. An ex Cameroon Conservative may well be in the LLG block as is an always voted Labour Brownite, as are Corbynites and committed Greens.

    Good luck with finding a single unifying winning policy platform for that lot.
    I think I could have a go at creating a policy platform that 50% of the electorate would vote for.
    Everyone with a NI number that ends in an odd number has to give all their wealth and future income to the person with the nearest NI ending in an even number?
    My NINO ends in a capital letter. And a small but real percentage of the electorate have no NINO.

    (Incidentally I'm not sure NINOs are completely random; wartime identity card numbers certainly weren't, any more than car registration alphanumerics are today.)
    They are not. The initial two letters are time-related, but not attached to a particular year. (People starting NE are about the same age as me, but not necessarily born in 1965) The final letter is related to which week of the 4-week cycle your employer would have to pay your stamp. Not sure how the numbers were handed out but I suspect blocks were issued to different social security offices each of which probably issued them sequentially.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,490
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    Bit depressing if the main thing the left-of-centre parties are trying to do is stop another party winning, instead of trying to positively win themselves. Would the Tories with 50-75 seats prop up a Reform minority?
    Though tactical voting was how Carney's Liberals came from behind to beat Poilievre's Conservatives in the Canadian election earlier this year.

    Second ballot votes helped the left and Macron's centrist block overhaul the first round lead for Le Pen's party in the French legislative election last year.

    Plaid won the Caerphilly by election with Labour tactical votes to beat Reform last week too.

    Jenrick and probably Kemi would back a Farage minority government on confidence and supply

    A Cleverly led Conservatives likely would not
    That's an interesting point and I think I know on which side of that fence you sit.

    However, IF the Conservatives join an anti-Reform tactical vote, that means accepting in some constituencies Conservative voters should vote Labour if the main aim is to stop Reform. In the past, you've been, let's say, amenable to that message in Scotland as an anti-SNP tactic but at Westminster, it's different.

    The second part of this is IF the arithmetic after the election means the only way to stop a Reform minority Government is to support (via C&S) a Labour or Lab-LD Government, how would Cleverly play it?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,523
    edited October 28

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    Labour and the Tories now tied and only just ahead of the Greens and LDs shows that both the main parties are finding it difficult to distinguish themselves. Labour are losing votes to their left to the Greens and to the centre to the LDs and the Tories have already lost the right to Reform and under Kemi are losing centrist voters to the LDs as well.

    Reform ahead clearly but only on 27% so still very vulnerable to anti Farage tactical voting
    It's a fascinating time to be involved in politics! There is a very simple message from the electorate - they're mad as hell and they're not going to take it any more. The party who can offer the most convincing fix for the mess will win.
    You don't think the winner will be the Party offering the most attractive illusion?
    I think there are two more cycles: Reform and then radical left (Green or Sultana) And then we may consider facing up to our problems. But we are not at rock bottom yet.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,158
    Great performance by Lammy. This kind of passion and eloquence is what the government needs right now. Especially delicious to see the odious Jenrick getting a deserved going over.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,917
    Good morning all! I thoroughly enjoyed the clip in the header. How anyone with a shred of human decency can support or vote for the disgusting slug that is Jenrick is beyond me.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,528

    HYUFD said:

    Ratters said:

    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 27%(+1),
    CON 17%(nc),
    LAB 17%(-3),
    GRN 16%(+1)
    LDEM 15%(nc),

    According to YouGov, the 17% for Labour is, they believe believe, the lowest we have shown them on and the Green score is their highest.

    Needless to say, it's an unusual result with four parties within 2 points of each other.


    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1983053821849817502

    The election probably comes down to how tactical the LLG block is willing to be to stop Reform (including even where it wants to be tactical can it actually know when to vote Green vs Labour vs LD).
    That's fine for the Lib Dem ~100 target seats.

    But where do people vote tactically for the Greens? They have very few seats where they are the obvious challenger but a 16%+ vote share is a lot of wasted votes if evenly distributed.

    And, unlike the Lib Dems, they will mostly win seats by overturning Labour as incumbent.

    I suspect they'll be lots of seats where the Labour-Green vote easily surpasses Reforms, but Reform come through the middle to win. Some with Labour second, others with Greens second.

    A bit like Reform+Tory vote in many seats last time.
    Others will be far better placed to answer that than me, but North Herefordshire was interesting last time, with the Greens going from never better than 4th to 1st with 43% in a single cycle.

    Perhaps as we get closer to the GE, and have more up to date local election results, things might become a little clearer.
    Yes North Herefordshire is one of the few areas where the Greens will be Reform's main opponents, parts of rural Suffolk as well so there anti Reform tactical voters will vote Green.

    Most seats where the Greens poll highest though will be inner city and university town constituencies where Labour will be their main opponents and Reform won't be contenders. In such areas you might even get a few Tories tactically voting Starmer Labour to beat the hard left Polanski led Greens
    I don't see how Greens retain these rural seats under Zack P and his 'abolish landlords' type of green-tinged hard left thinking.

    But maybe Ellie Chowns and co will have built up a strong enough personal vote by being good MPs as often happens with first time incumbants.

    Ellie Chowns asked a PMQ last week:-

    Dr Ellie Chowns (North Herefordshire) (Green)
    Given that the TUC has calculated that the wealthiest 10% of households in the UK hold more wealth than everyone else in the country put together, does the Prime Minister agree with me that it is inequality, not immigration, that is a threat to our country?

    The Prime Minister
    We need to deal both with levels of immigration and with inequality, and that is what the Government are doing. As we get on with trying to boost our economy, may I gently point out that if we want more equality and if we want our economy to be stronger, the hon. Lady’s party needs to start voting for some of the measures that will make it necessary?

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2025-10-22/debates/7D09717C-6AE9-4E42-9A79-E0295C2C555A/Engagements

    This is the sort of thing I mean when suggesting the Prime Minister's replies start well but occasionally meander into the undergrowth. It is not all or even most of the time, of course, but it is one reason I'd not be surprised were he to follow Harold Wilson in retiring early. That said, I'm surprised Hansard has not cleaned it up so maybe I've been whooshed on this one.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,348
    edited October 28

    FPT @Eabhal

    Eabhal said:

    There are a lot of vocal people, not to mention cash-poor pensioners in London who care quite a lot about a supposed mansion tax.

    "Cash poor" is just a roundabout way of saying... rich.

    Most of these pensioners have not earned their £2 million houses at all; it's just pure luck that prices have exploded in places like London. If their cash flow means they have to downsize, they are still going to be sat on a huge pile of unearned wealth most of which will never see the tax man.

    It doesn't sound like my perfect policy but better than nothing.
    Let’s put some numbers on it for clarity. Using a £3m house as per the daily mail articles, generating a liability of £10k p.a.

    Assuming that the pensioner can’t afford this increase in outgoings they can their house right?

    The buyer needs to find £10k pa out of taxed income, which probably means they will take £400k off the price (£400k x 5% = 20k pre tax income = £10k post tax income).

    So the pensioner’s house is sellable at £2.6m (possibly a bit more because the buyer would have lower tax on a £2.6m house).

    Estate agent and legal fees and moving expenses of 3% so net proceeds of about £2.5m

    Let’s say they downsize to a £2m house because they can’t afford the additional tax on a larger property.

    That’s a further £150k in stamp duty.

    Which means that they end up with a £2m house and £350k in cash as a result of the downsize.

    An effective tax rate of 65% and, I suspect, will blow a hole in many people’s retirement plans.

    Property tax is messed up in the UK. But it shouldn’t just be a pot for a populist tax raid on “the rich”. They should replace stamp duty and council tax with an annual charge on all properties including a rollover relief.
    I agree. A flat 1% charge and bin Stamp Duty.

    But what you've described there is someone ending up with £2.4 million in assets - which is what a £3 million house was worth as recently as 2016. It's difficult to generate much sympathy for someone with untaxed unearned income of £600,000 in less than 10 years purely due to house price inflation.
  • Good morning

    I think Lammy's performance yesterday was a sad reflection on our politics as he ranted and raved at the dispatch box that must have had the victims of this woeful affair watching in despair

    Passing the buck, then laughing, gesticulating, and pointing is exactly the reason politics is in the gutter at present

    It may delight some but I expect the public turned away in disgust

    I understand your reaction, but perhaps you have missed what he is reacting to.

    The Tories are pretending that everything happened after they were demolished last year. All Labour. So we now have Coutinho attacking the policies she literally crowed about as SofS for Energy, Jenrick stood outside an asylum hotel he opened as SofS demanding it be closed etc etc etc.

    Jenrick says there needs to be an independent enquiry of the kind he never enacted when it happened under his watch. Braverman went one further, huffing and puffing about this release until someone pointed out the Exact Same Thing happened when she was Home Secretary. Badenoch saying "the Tories have a plan to" do all the things they didn't do for 14 years.

    So yeah, Lammy got angry, because your party are grifting hypocrites. And its all over social media, elected Tories and their shills posting stuff that just gets laughed at. People aren't stupid, they remember last year, the year zero strategy isn't working. And Jenrick is supposed to be next in line...
    Labour are now one third into their term in office and, whilst baming the previous government, the public expect them to take responsibility and not blame everyone else but themselves

    The public are not like us as political obsessives but see a government in free fall and seem to have concluded labour are not the answer

    Indeed todays poll show exactly that and even has the Lib Dems in 5th place

    Lord Ashcroft's poll today just demonstrates how little day to day skirmishes cut through despite all of us thinking they are important

    The country is ungovernable and I have no answer to how we can get out of this complete mess

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/10/digital-id-china-the-echr-stamp-duty-net-zero-the-budget-and-who-will-be-pm-after-the-next-election/
    Its a mess alright! Point about the Lammy rant is that in no way is he avoiding responsibility or blaming the previous government. He is furious and wants answers. His fury is that Jenrick is a screaming hypocrite, demanding things that he refused when he was in charge,

    It can be governed if we can step back from the noise and think. Lets take this issue - how does this happen and how do we avoid it? The simple truth is that Lammy - like Jenrick before him - is not in control of a system that has been fragmented and contracted out and sub contracted below that.

    We need a new system, but that kind of big picture stuff eludes most of the politicians.
Sign In or Register to comment.