Skip to content

Think Caerphilly before betting on this by-election – politicalbetting.com

13

Comments

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,066
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic, on topic what's even the point of Worcestershire county council "consulting residents" on a 10% tax rise. The answer is going to be "No" (And that's as polite as it'll get). The "consultation" surely will cost money - if they really need to raise 10% they need to declare bankruptcy or some such, no point asking residents...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd6750qjp9vo

    Looking at the report and the first and last pages of the consultation document, it's all online, so presumably uses one of the common online[edit] questionnaire services that all sorts of societies and groups do. NB that if you can't do it because you aren't online, you have to ask for a paper copy online. So not that expensive.

    The questio is how much this biases the result. And what the aim is. Could be to blame the government and the voters (including the ones who didn't fill it in).
    Background is that there's a legal cap at +5%, unless they hold a referendum first.

    So this could be part educational to make the residents "understand why cuts are coming" which could also help with blaming the Government, consultation to find out what they think, or a referendum itself.

    It could also be aimed at breaking the "yes we can get lower taxes and better services" delusion (which I would support).

    I had one from Notts CC in the last 2 years.
    I did wonder about the authorization by referendum issue, so thanks. Bit surprised it counts as a referendum with thaty methodology, but the turnout is usually* so low it probably doesn't matter.

    *Pace Strathclyde and its one on water supply, of course.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,690
    edited 10:52AM
    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    Everyone with British citizenship is eligible for Irish citizenship if they have five years of residency in Ireland (three years if married to an Irish citizen).

    If they have their British citizenship removed on the basis of this they then lose the entitlement to reside in Ireland, but I guess you have the entitlement before your British citizenship is revoked, so it's probably enough right to a different citizenship to satisfy the Supreme Court.

    Although. If someone does gain Irish citizenship, British law prohibits treating them as a foreigner, and so a person stripped of their British citizenship on the basis of being eligible for Irish citizenship kinda simultaneously is British and is not British.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,126
    Nigelb said:

    Albanian PM, Edi Rami: "You left Europe because you wanted less boats, and you have more boats."

    "You left Europe because you wanted more investment. You have less investment."

    https://x.com/BestForBritain/status/1981000123069940025

    *fewer* boats. Otherwise correct.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,753
    edited 10:52AM
    Nigelb said:

    Getting things done in Britain:

    How Sgt. Rod Banks and the Mosquito shadow modification network gave Mosquitos the extra ooph to avoid Luftwaffe fighters.

    Rod Banks was a lowly engine fitter at RAF Marham, exceptional engineer and former Rolls Royce apprentice...

    https://x.com/FennellJW/status/1981122447798915167

    Great story - and a metaphor for how Britain still is.

    There’s a similar story about using American water additives in boilers in RN ships, during WWII.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,473

    Nigelb said:

    Albanian PM, Edi Rami: "You left Europe because you wanted less boats, and you have more boats."

    "You left Europe because you wanted more investment. You have less investment."

    https://x.com/BestForBritain/status/1981000123069940025

    *fewer* boats. Otherwise correct.
    Boats weren't a problem pre Brexit. It was well under 1000, maybe less than 100 arriving via that method back then. The boats started when we paid the French to stop the lorries. Unfortunately it seems migrants prefer the boats to the lorries.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,031

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    It's rather shocking how the main three parties seem utterly disinterested in the centre ground and are (mostly) busy rushing to ape Reform. The Lib Dems aren't, but with their policy of flinging cash at the WASPI lot and comfortable limitation as the party of lovely leafy suburbs and Waitrose shoppers appear thoroughly disinterested in appealing to the sensible left, right and centre.

    Badenoch needs to slap down this Lam nonsense. Threatening to expel law-abiding and tax-paying migrants who have done nothing wrong is morally repugnant and bloody stupid. It reminds me a little of Tyrion lambasting Joffrey as being the first king who was both vicious and an idiot.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,423

    Nigelb said:

    Albanian PM, Edi Rami: "You left Europe because you wanted less boats, and you have more boats."

    "You left Europe because you wanted more investment. You have less investment."

    https://x.com/BestForBritain/status/1981000123069940025

    *fewer* boats. Otherwise correct.
    Maybe he would be better asking why so many Albanians want to leave Albania.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,424

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    The Reform/Lam/Jenrick stuff removes for millions of people what was a previously barely perceptible thing (because it was never before questioned) - simply being secure in your own residence.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,372
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic, on topic what's even the point of Worcestershire county council "consulting residents" on a 10% tax rise. The answer is going to be "No" (And that's as polite as it'll get). The "consultation" surely will cost money - if they really need to raise 10% they need to declare bankruptcy or some such, no point asking residents...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd6750qjp9vo

    Looking at the report and the first and last pages of the consultation document, it's all online, so presumably uses one of the common online[edit] questionnaire services that all sorts of societies and groups do. NB that if you can't do it because you aren't online, you have to ask for a paper copy online. So not that expensive.

    The questio is how much this biases the result. And what the aim is. Could be to blame the government and the voters (including the ones who didn't fill it in).
    Background is that there's a legal cap at +5%, unless they hold a referendum first.

    So this could be part educational to make the residents "understand why cuts are coming" which could also help with blaming the Government, consultation to find out what they think, or a referendum itself.

    It could also be aimed at breaking the "yes we can get lower taxes and better services" delusion (which I would support).

    I had one from Notts CC in the last 2 years.
    I did wonder about the authorization by referendum issue, so thanks. Bit surprised it counts as a referendum with thaty methodology, but the turnout is usually* so low it probably doesn't matter.

    *Pace Strathclyde and its one on water supply, of course.
    Obviously in practice it is about 6x more complex than that !

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/council-tax-levels-set-by-local-authorities-in-england-2025-to-2026/council-tax-levels-set-by-local-authorities-in-england-2025-to-2026#introduction
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,753

    Nigelb said:

    Albanian PM, Edi Rami: "You left Europe because you wanted less boats, and you have more boats."

    "You left Europe because you wanted more investment. You have less investment."

    https://x.com/BestForBritain/status/1981000123069940025

    *fewer* boats. Otherwise correct.
    Boats weren't a problem pre Brexit. It was well under 1000, maybe less than 100 arriving via that method back then. The boats started when we paid the French to stop the lorries. Unfortunately it seems migrants prefer the boats to the lorries.
    What happened was that the migrants in lorries began to effect operation of the tunnel.

    Because the hauliers are held liable for migrants hiding in their vehicles, they were carrying out elaborate check, themselves. In addition, trade was moving to other routes.

    Migrants entering the tunnel were causing shutdowns as well.

    In the French governmental system, protection of national infrastructure is given high priority. The tunnel is considered as such.

    So the French moved rapidly and effectively to protect the tunnel and provide secure parking for lorries arriving at the tunnel.

    This eliminated (nearly completely) the tunnel as a route.

    The French continue this work.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,875

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    Everyone with British citizenship is eligible for Irish citizenship if they have five years of residency in Ireland (three years if married to an Irish citizen).

    If they have their British citizenship removed on the basis of this they then lose the entitlement to reside in Ireland, but I guess you have the entitlement before your British citizenship is revoked, so it's probably enough right to a different citizenship to satisfy the Supreme Court.

    Although. If someone does gain Irish citizenship, British law prohibits treating them as a foreigner, and so a person stripped of their British citizenship on the basis of being eligible for Irish citizenship kinda simultaneously is British and is not British.
    Schrodinger's passport.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,701
    More videos of Ryazan oil refinery on fire. Again.

    https://x.com/jayinkyiv/status/1981252963646492728
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,690

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    It's rather shocking how the main three parties seem utterly disinterested in the centre ground and are (mostly) busy rushing to ape Reform. The Lib Dems aren't, but with their policy of flinging cash at the WASPI lot and comfortable limitation as the party of lovely leafy suburbs and Waitrose shoppers appear thoroughly disinterested in appealing to the sensible left, right and centre.

    Badenoch needs to slap down this Lam nonsense. Threatening to expel law-abiding and tax-paying migrants who have done nothing wrong is morally repugnant and bloody stupid. It reminds me a little of Tyrion lambasting Joffrey as being the first king who was both vicious and an idiot.
    It's apparently official Tory party policy. They published a draft bill setting it out in May, but no-one noticed until Lam's interview in the Sunday Times.

    It's a terrible position for Badenoch to find herself in. She's under pressure to discipline a backbencher effectively for merely being better than her at gaining publicity for party policy. What a mess.

    If Badenoch simply says, "this has been party policy for half a year," then, firstly, it's incredibly embarrassing that everyone ignored it, and secondly all the outrage transfers to her. Anything else she might say would be worse.

    So she's left saying and doing nothing and hoping it goes away and everyone forgets. Absolute shambles.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,473

    Nigelb said:

    Albanian PM, Edi Rami: "You left Europe because you wanted less boats, and you have more boats."

    "You left Europe because you wanted more investment. You have less investment."

    https://x.com/BestForBritain/status/1981000123069940025

    *fewer* boats. Otherwise correct.
    Boats weren't a problem pre Brexit. It was well under 1000, maybe less than 100 arriving via that method back then. The boats started when we paid the French to stop the lorries. Unfortunately it seems migrants prefer the boats to the lorries.
    What happened was that the migrants in lorries began to effect operation of the tunnel.

    Because the hauliers are held liable for migrants hiding in their vehicles, they were carrying out elaborate check, themselves. In addition, trade was moving to other routes.

    Migrants entering the tunnel were causing shutdowns as well.

    In the French governmental system, protection of national infrastructure is given high priority. The tunnel is considered as such.

    So the French moved rapidly and effectively to protect the tunnel and provide secure parking for lorries arriving at the tunnel.

    This eliminated (nearly completely) the tunnel as a route.

    The French continue this work.
    UK govt paid for the fencing.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a815e0140f0b62302696ec4/Joint_declaration_20_August_2015.pdf
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,126
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    The Reform/Lam/Jenrick stuff removes for millions of people what was a previously barely perceptible thing (because it was never before questioned) - simply being secure in your own residence.
    Two of my children were born in the US and have American passports. My wife was born here but has a Sri Lankan passport. Her parents and brothers are naturalized British citizens. One sister in law is French with settled status. Another sister in law's parents are Indian. Which of us is actually fully secure here in the current climate?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,424

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    It's rather shocking how the main three parties seem utterly disinterested in the centre ground and are (mostly) busy rushing to ape Reform. The Lib Dems aren't, but with their policy of flinging cash at the WASPI lot and comfortable limitation as the party of lovely leafy suburbs and Waitrose shoppers appear thoroughly disinterested in appealing to the sensible left, right and centre.

    Badenoch needs to slap down this Lam nonsense. Threatening to expel law-abiding and tax-paying migrants who have done nothing wrong is morally repugnant and bloody stupid. It reminds me a little of Tyrion lambasting Joffrey as being the first king who was both vicious and an idiot.
    It's apparently official Tory party policy. They published a draft bill setting it out in May, but no-one noticed until Lam's interview in the Sunday Times.

    It's a terrible position for Badenoch to find herself in. She's under pressure to discipline a backbencher effectively for merely being better than her at gaining publicity for party policy. What a mess.

    If Badenoch simply says, "this has been party policy for half a year," then, firstly, it's incredibly embarrassing that everyone ignored it, and secondly all the outrage transfers to her. Anything else she might say would be worse.

    So she's left saying and doing nothing and hoping it goes away and everyone forgets. Absolute shambles.
    It is, however good that it has been highlighted in this way.
    Not infrequently, these things actually become law before anyone notices just how bad they are.
    Though usually it's just about crippling business, or local authorities' independence, or restricting free speech.

    This threatens quite a large part of our population - who might have lived here for decades - at a far more fundamental level.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,473
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    It's rather shocking how the main three parties seem utterly disinterested in the centre ground and are (mostly) busy rushing to ape Reform. The Lib Dems aren't, but with their policy of flinging cash at the WASPI lot and comfortable limitation as the party of lovely leafy suburbs and Waitrose shoppers appear thoroughly disinterested in appealing to the sensible left, right and centre.

    Badenoch needs to slap down this Lam nonsense. Threatening to expel law-abiding and tax-paying migrants who have done nothing wrong is morally repugnant and bloody stupid. It reminds me a little of Tyrion lambasting Joffrey as being the first king who was both vicious and an idiot.
    It's apparently official Tory party policy. They published a draft bill setting it out in May, but no-one noticed until Lam's interview in the Sunday Times.

    It's a terrible position for Badenoch to find herself in. She's under pressure to discipline a backbencher effectively for merely being better than her at gaining publicity for party policy. What a mess.

    If Badenoch simply says, "this has been party policy for half a year," then, firstly, it's incredibly embarrassing that everyone ignored it, and secondly all the outrage transfers to her. Anything else she might say would be worse.

    So she's left saying and doing nothing and hoping it goes away and everyone forgets. Absolute shambles.
    It is, however good that it has been highlighted in this way.
    Not infrequently, these things actually become law before anyone notices just how bad they are.
    Though usually it's just about crippling business, or local authorities' independence, or restricting free speech.

    This threatens quite a large part of our population - who might have lived here for decades - at a far more fundamental level.
    It all started with the Begum case. Two tier citizenship.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,372
    An incy-wincy bit of cut through for the Reform obsessives:

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Q1Mj2WDAtME
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,424

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    The Reform/Lam/Jenrick stuff removes for millions of people what was a previously barely perceptible thing (because it was never before questioned) - simply being secure in your own residence.
    Two of my children were born in the US and have American passports. My wife was born here but has a Sri Lankan passport. Her parents and brothers are naturalized British citizens. One sister in law is French with settled status. Another sister in law's parents are Indian. Which of us is actually fully secure here in the current climate?
    You're far from the only PBer asking such questions.

    My wife was born in the US, but is fortunate enough to have become a citizen here, before all this started to become quite so toxic.
    But whether those even in her situation are now entirely secure, is not 100% certain
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,967

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    It's rather shocking how the main three parties seem utterly disinterested in the centre ground and are (mostly) busy rushing to ape Reform. The Lib Dems aren't, but with their policy of flinging cash at the WASPI lot and comfortable limitation as the party of lovely leafy suburbs and Waitrose shoppers appear thoroughly disinterested in appealing to the sensible left, right and centre.

    Badenoch needs to slap down this Lam nonsense. Threatening to expel law-abiding and tax-paying migrants who have done nothing wrong is morally repugnant and bloody stupid. It reminds me a little of Tyrion lambasting Joffrey as being the first king who was both vicious and an idiot.
    It's apparently official Tory party policy. They published a draft bill setting it out in May, but no-one noticed until Lam's interview in the Sunday Times.

    It's a terrible position for Badenoch to find herself in. She's under pressure to discipline a backbencher effectively for merely being better than her at gaining publicity for party policy. What a mess.

    If Badenoch simply says, "this has been party policy for half a year," then, firstly, it's incredibly embarrassing that everyone ignored it, and secondly all the outrage transfers to her. Anything else she might say would be worse.

    So she's left saying and doing nothing and hoping it goes away and everyone forgets. Absolute shambles.
    Badenoch's problem is she only beat Jenrick with Tory MPs with centrist supporters of Tugendhat in the final round and supporters of Cleverly in the membership ballot.

    By allowing an increasing move to Jenrickisation of the party platform, Lam a key ally of Jenrick, she risks alienating many of her previous supporters in the parliamentary Conservative Party. If the Tories still see significant losses locally next May and little improvement in the polls then a VONC in her is very likely which she could well then lose, with either Cleverly or Jenrick replacing her (I suspect if most Tory MPs and the 1922 can arrange it it would be Cleverly by coronation)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,753

    Nigelb said:

    Albanian PM, Edi Rami: "You left Europe because you wanted less boats, and you have more boats."

    "You left Europe because you wanted more investment. You have less investment."

    https://x.com/BestForBritain/status/1981000123069940025

    *fewer* boats. Otherwise correct.
    Boats weren't a problem pre Brexit. It was well under 1000, maybe less than 100 arriving via that method back then. The boats started when we paid the French to stop the lorries. Unfortunately it seems migrants prefer the boats to the lorries.
    What happened was that the migrants in lorries began to effect operation of the tunnel.

    Because the hauliers are held liable for migrants hiding in their vehicles, they were carrying out elaborate check, themselves. In addition, trade was moving to other routes.

    Migrants entering the tunnel were causing shutdowns as well.

    In the French governmental system, protection of national infrastructure is given high priority. The tunnel is considered as such.

    So the French moved rapidly and effectively to protect the tunnel and provide secure parking for lorries arriving at the tunnel.

    This eliminated (nearly completely) the tunnel as a route.

    The French continue this work.
    UK govt paid for the fencing.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a815e0140f0b62302696ec4/Joint_declaration_20_August_2015.pdf
    And the fencing was put up. And maintained. And guarded.

    Compare that with the money given to stop small boats. The French people on the ground, around Calais, see stopping the migrants leaving as against local and national French interest.

    Hence the lack of effort.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,967
    dunham said:

    My predictions:

    Reform > Plaid > Labour

    Newly elected fuker becomes locally very unpopular very quickly when people realise they are not getting a moon on a stick. Fukers turn nasty.

    Use the unpopularity of elected fukers as the political weather vane. They're making an embarrassment of themselves in places like Kent, and there is a lot more to come.

    Why would one elected Senedd member become unpopular? They are not going to be in a position to offer a moon on a stick as the Welsh government will remain Labour. The new Senedd member will be freely able to snipe from the sidelines
    Good morning

    As you say one Reform member is not going to change anything, but what should worry labour is that it is very likely many Reform candidates will be elected to the Senedd next May, as well as Plaid, posing the problem of who actually governs Wales in the next Senedd
    The result of the Caerphilly by-election is significant, as it will be a strong indicator of whether or not Reform is likely to win the full Senedd election in May 2026. If they are successful then, I fear for the future of Wales.
    Reform would be better than Plaid, although most likely whatever happens tonight it will be a Plaid minority government propped up by Labour next year
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,124

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    It's rather shocking how the main three parties seem utterly disinterested in the centre ground and are (mostly) busy rushing to ape Reform. The Lib Dems aren't, but with their policy of flinging cash at the WASPI lot and comfortable limitation as the party of lovely leafy suburbs and Waitrose shoppers appear thoroughly disinterested in appealing to the sensible left, right and centre.

    Badenoch needs to slap down this Lam nonsense. Threatening to expel law-abiding and tax-paying migrants who have done nothing wrong is morally repugnant and bloody stupid. It reminds me a little of Tyrion lambasting Joffrey as being the first king who was both vicious and an idiot.
    It's apparently official Tory party policy. They published a draft bill setting it out in May, but no-one noticed until Lam's interview in the Sunday Times.

    It's a terrible position for Badenoch to find herself in. She's under pressure to discipline a backbencher effectively for merely being better than her at gaining publicity for party policy. What a mess.

    If Badenoch simply says, "this has been party policy for half a year," then, firstly, it's incredibly embarrassing that everyone ignored it, and secondly all the outrage transfers to her. Anything else she might say would be worse.

    So she's left saying and doing nothing and hoping it goes away and everyone forgets. Absolute shambles.
    It's basically Enoch's agenda from 1968, made real by draft legislation, isn't it?
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 243

    Nigelb said:

    Albanian PM, Edi Rami: "You left Europe because you wanted less boats, and you have more boats."

    "You left Europe because you wanted more investment. You have less investment."

    https://x.com/BestForBritain/status/1981000123069940025

    *fewer* boats. Otherwise correct.
    Boats weren't a problem pre Brexit. It was well under 1000, maybe less than 100 arriving via that method back then. The boats started when we paid the French to stop the lorries. Unfortunately it seems migrants prefer the boats to the lorries.
    What happened was that the migrants in lorries began to effect operation of the tunnel.

    Because the hauliers are held liable for migrants hiding in their vehicles, they were carrying out elaborate check, themselves. In addition, trade was moving to other routes.

    Migrants entering the tunnel were causing shutdowns as well.

    In the French governmental system, protection of national infrastructure is given high priority. The tunnel is considered as such.

    So the French moved rapidly and effectively to protect the tunnel and provide secure parking for lorries arriving at the tunnel.

    This eliminated (nearly completely) the tunnel as a route.

    The French continue this work.
    UK govt paid for the fencing.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a815e0140f0b62302696ec4/Joint_declaration_20_August_2015.pdf
    If I remember correctly, the security perimeter fence from the NATO summit in Newport was given to the French to protect the area around the port in Calais.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,690
    IanB2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    It's rather shocking how the main three parties seem utterly disinterested in the centre ground and are (mostly) busy rushing to ape Reform. The Lib Dems aren't, but with their policy of flinging cash at the WASPI lot and comfortable limitation as the party of lovely leafy suburbs and Waitrose shoppers appear thoroughly disinterested in appealing to the sensible left, right and centre.

    Badenoch needs to slap down this Lam nonsense. Threatening to expel law-abiding and tax-paying migrants who have done nothing wrong is morally repugnant and bloody stupid. It reminds me a little of Tyrion lambasting Joffrey as being the first king who was both vicious and an idiot.
    It's apparently official Tory party policy. They published a draft bill setting it out in May, but no-one noticed until Lam's interview in the Sunday Times.

    It's a terrible position for Badenoch to find herself in. She's under pressure to discipline a backbencher effectively for merely being better than her at gaining publicity for party policy. What a mess.

    If Badenoch simply says, "this has been party policy for half a year," then, firstly, it's incredibly embarrassing that everyone ignored it, and secondly all the outrage transfers to her. Anything else she might say would be worse.

    So she's left saying and doing nothing and hoping it goes away and everyone forgets. Absolute shambles.
    It's basically Enoch's agenda from 1968, made real by draft legislation, isn't it?
    More recently it is BNP policy when they were led by Nick Griffin, ~2008.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,707

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    It's rather shocking how the main three parties seem utterly disinterested in the centre ground and are (mostly) busy rushing to ape Reform. The Lib Dems aren't, but with their policy of flinging cash at the WASPI lot and comfortable limitation as the party of lovely leafy suburbs and Waitrose shoppers appear thoroughly disinterested in appealing to the sensible left, right and centre.

    Badenoch needs to slap down this Lam nonsense. Threatening to expel law-abiding and tax-paying migrants who have done nothing wrong is morally repugnant and bloody stupid. It reminds me a little of Tyrion lambasting Joffrey as being the first king who was both vicious and an idiot.
    It's apparently official Tory party policy. They published a draft bill setting it out in May, but no-one noticed until Lam's interview in the Sunday Times.

    It's a terrible position for Badenoch to find herself in. She's under pressure to discipline a backbencher effectively for merely being better than her at gaining publicity for party policy. What a mess.

    If Badenoch simply says, "this has been party policy for half a year," then, firstly, it's incredibly embarrassing that everyone ignored it, and secondly all the outrage transfers to her. Anything else she might say would be worse.

    So she's left saying and doing nothing and hoping it goes away and everyone forgets. Absolute shambles.
    It is, however good that it has been highlighted in this way.
    Not infrequently, these things actually become law before anyone notices just how bad they are.
    Though usually it's just about crippling business, or local authorities' independence, or restricting free speech.

    This threatens quite a large part of our population - who might have lived here for decades - at a far more fundamental level.
    It all started with the Begum case. Two tier citizenship.
    Indeed. Clearly all this is intended as racist dog whistling, but the problem is that racist dog whistling can only be done (at the moment) within the boundaries set by pretending you are not whistling at all. So while I suppose they only intend to deport the wrong sort (perhaps my eye specialist who is the wrong colour but not my friend who is a white western european surgeon) I am reading it as an attempt to allow themselves to deport about 15 million people, including UK citizens with potential for dual nationality. As a collective UK body they could be described as a substantial part of its hard working, family values backbone.

    I trust this is not exactly an election winning strategy, but in a post Trump world you never know.

  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,748
    IanB2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    It's rather shocking how the main three parties seem utterly disinterested in the centre ground and are (mostly) busy rushing to ape Reform. The Lib Dems aren't, but with their policy of flinging cash at the WASPI lot and comfortable limitation as the party of lovely leafy suburbs and Waitrose shoppers appear thoroughly disinterested in appealing to the sensible left, right and centre.

    Badenoch needs to slap down this Lam nonsense. Threatening to expel law-abiding and tax-paying migrants who have done nothing wrong is morally repugnant and bloody stupid. It reminds me a little of Tyrion lambasting Joffrey as being the first king who was both vicious and an idiot.
    It's apparently official Tory party policy. They published a draft bill setting it out in May, but no-one noticed until Lam's interview in the Sunday Times.

    It's a terrible position for Badenoch to find herself in. She's under pressure to discipline a backbencher effectively for merely being better than her at gaining publicity for party policy. What a mess.

    If Badenoch simply says, "this has been party policy for half a year," then, firstly, it's incredibly embarrassing that everyone ignored it, and secondly all the outrage transfers to her. Anything else she might say would be worse.

    So she's left saying and doing nothing and hoping it goes away and everyone forgets. Absolute shambles.
    It's basically Enoch's agenda from 1968, made real by draft legislation, isn't it?
    Another victory for nominative determinism!!
    And Steve Bell.

    Saw an exhibition on the WW2 propaganda cartoonist Armengol, his brief from UK ministry of information was to make his satirical ridicule of the racist leaders into the public perception of them.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,126
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/23/reform-only-black-branch-chair-quits-over-harmful-migration-debate

    I hope that there is a groundswell of opposition growing to the harmful nativist discourse of recent years. Perhaps this guy's resignation is a straw in the wind.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,925
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    It's rather shocking how the main three parties seem utterly disinterested in the centre ground and are (mostly) busy rushing to ape Reform. The Lib Dems aren't, but with their policy of flinging cash at the WASPI lot and comfortable limitation as the party of lovely leafy suburbs and Waitrose shoppers appear thoroughly disinterested in appealing to the sensible left, right and centre.

    Badenoch needs to slap down this Lam nonsense. Threatening to expel law-abiding and tax-paying migrants who have done nothing wrong is morally repugnant and bloody stupid. It reminds me a little of Tyrion lambasting Joffrey as being the first king who was both vicious and an idiot.
    It's apparently official Tory party policy. They published a draft bill setting it out in May, but no-one noticed until Lam's interview in the Sunday Times.

    It's a terrible position for Badenoch to find herself in. She's under pressure to discipline a backbencher effectively for merely being better than her at gaining publicity for party policy. What a mess.

    If Badenoch simply says, "this has been party policy for half a year," then, firstly, it's incredibly embarrassing that everyone ignored it, and secondly all the outrage transfers to her. Anything else she might say would be worse.

    So she's left saying and doing nothing and hoping it goes away and everyone forgets. Absolute shambles.
    It is, however good that it has been highlighted in this way.
    Not infrequently, these things actually become law before anyone notices just how bad they are.
    Though usually it's just about crippling business, or local authorities' independence, or restricting free speech.

    This threatens quite a large part of our population - who might have lived here for decades - at a far more fundamental level.
    It all started with the Begum case. Two tier citizenship.
    Indeed. Clearly all this is intended as racist dog whistling, but the problem is that racist dog whistling can only be done (at the moment) within the boundaries set by pretending you are not whistling at all. So while I suppose they only intend to deport the wrong sort (perhaps my eye specialist who is the wrong colour but not my friend who is a white western european surgeon) I am reading it as an attempt to allow themselves to deport about 15 million people, including UK citizens with potential for dual nationality. As a collective UK body they could be described as a substantial part of its hard working, family values backbone.

    I trust this is not exactly an election winning strategy, but in a post Trump world you never know.

    When I read all this I rather fear for the future of our MP, one Priti Patel!
  • PJHPJH Posts: 945

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    I face the reverse problem. I have no wish to stay in such a country, but nowhere else to go. And where is safe from this nonsense at the moment, anyway?

    Three years to work something out.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,967
    edited 11:32AM

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,518
    I’m a dual national so will probably get blamed for the state of the country after the angry mob have finished with the lower hanging fruit .
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,701
    Russia have now moved on from targeting civilians to targeting journalists in Ukraine.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1981318440272220483
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,967
    edited 11:37AM
    ydoethur said:

    What's the weather like in Caerphilly today?

    Bad enough to affect the result, and if so- who benefits?

    Lower turnout and I would expect Plaid to be the beneficiaries. Labour voters have no reason to turn out and how many Reform voters actually plan to vote rather than just say they will? I would say high turnout is good news for the Fukkers.
    Reform voters are motivated to cast a protest vote though and Plaid likely need tactical votes from Labour voters to win
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,624
    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,690
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    What's the weather like in Caerphilly today?

    Bad enough to affect the result, and if so- who benefits?

    Lower turnout and I would expect Plaid to be the beneficiaries. Labour voters have no reason to turn out and how many Reform voters actually plan to vote rather than just say they will? I would say high turnout is good news for the Fukkers.
    Reform voters are motivated to cast a protest vote though and Plaid likely need tactical votes from Labour voters to win
    Someone said upthread that there has been higher turnout in local council elections, favouring Reform.

    This gives credence to the Find Out Now opinion polls which find a lot of support for Reform among previous non-voters.

    I expect Reform to win on a higher than normal turnout.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,967
    edited 11:45AM
    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals, as well as being the most suspicious of Popery still in the C of E, tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,958

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    What's the weather like in Caerphilly today?

    Bad enough to affect the result, and if so- who benefits?

    Lower turnout and I would expect Plaid to be the beneficiaries. Labour voters have no reason to turn out and how many Reform voters actually plan to vote rather than just say they will? I would say high turnout is good news for the Fukkers.
    Reform voters are motivated to cast a protest vote though and Plaid likely need tactical votes from Labour voters to win
    Someone said upthread that there has been higher turnout in local council elections, favouring Reform.

    This gives credence to the Find Out Now opinion polls which find a lot of support for Reform among previous non-voters.

    I expect Reform to win on a higher than normal turnout.
    I hope the thuggish gammons who vote for the fukkers will suffer the consequences of electing a bunch of morons and idiots. Sadly the rest of the normal voters will suffer as well.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,875
    edited 11:47AM
    At times like this I thank the foresight of my Gaelic speaking great grandparents who failed to register my Grandad's birth in County Mayo at all. (They moved to England weeks later).
    So they'll struggle to deport me.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,624
    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,967
    edited 11:50AM

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    What's the weather like in Caerphilly today?

    Bad enough to affect the result, and if so- who benefits?

    Lower turnout and I would expect Plaid to be the beneficiaries. Labour voters have no reason to turn out and how many Reform voters actually plan to vote rather than just say they will? I would say high turnout is good news for the Fukkers.
    Reform voters are motivated to cast a protest vote though and Plaid likely need tactical votes from Labour voters to win
    Someone said upthread that there has been higher turnout in local council elections, favouring Reform.

    This gives credence to the Find Out Now opinion polls which find a lot of support for Reform among previous non-voters.

    I expect Reform to win on a higher than normal turnout.
    Caerphilly was also 57% Leave so on national polling where Reform lead on around 30%+ of the vote and given only 52% of the UK and 52.5% of Welsh voters voted Leave you would expect Reform to win with 40%+ of the vote
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,958
    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    Wasn't Jesus a left wing radical?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,447
    dixiedean said:

    At times like this I thank the foresight of my Gaelic speaking great grandparents who failed to register my Grandad's birth in County Mayo at all. (They moved to England weeks later).
    So they'll struggle to deport me.

    They’ll struggle to deport me too, I am as English as Queen Victoria.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,967
    edited 11:58AM
    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    The Church of England has £8 billion in assets and investments and is the 13th biggest landowner and landlord in England. Technically it could keep going with barely any congregation at all for generations. It also gets significant numbers of paying tourists to its English cathedrals. In the west Catholicism is also in decline, the only denominations growing significantly in the UK tend to be Pentecostal evangelical, free church evangelical and from a very small base Greek Orthodox.

    Mullally is of course not an evangelical and has made clear she is more focused on supporting and funding traditional parish ministry than evangelical church plant enthusiast Welby was. Most evangelicals in the C of E are of course conservatives, it is liberal Catholics who tend to be more left of centre
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,424
    The entire East Wing of the White House will be gone by Friday. He does not have the authority to do this. Yet he’s doing it. It’s not his house. It’s ours.

    Is there not ONE Republican out there who will say something? Not ONE? Is there not ONE Republican willing to risk taking a blowtorch to their career by standing up in the public square and shouting, “STOP! STOP DESTROYING THIS HOUSE! THIS IS WRONG! STOP!”..

    https://x.com/WalshFreedom/status/1981151755896279305

    The point is, of course, that Trump (and his immediate coterie) do regard it as his property.

    It's far greater important than just the razing of a piece of history. It's Trump showing that only his word matters, irrespective of law or custom.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,353

    dixiedean said:

    At times like this I thank the foresight of my Gaelic speaking great grandparents who failed to register my Grandad's birth in County Mayo at all. (They moved to England weeks later).
    So they'll struggle to deport me.

    They’ll struggle to deport me too, I am as English as Queen Victoria.
    I was born in India, but conceived in Blighty.

    Go figure, Katie Lam :lol:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,424

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    Wasn't Jesus a left wing radical?
    Politically, not so much.
    (Render unto Caesar, etc)

    So quite the opposite of (say) a Marxist.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,967
    edited 12:00PM

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    Wasn't Jesus a left wing radical?
    Arguably on economics, though more big society charity worker than big state. Socially though he was very much for traditional one man and one woman marriage and restricted divorce even if open to refugees
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,753

    dixiedean said:

    At times like this I thank the foresight of my Gaelic speaking great grandparents who failed to register my Grandad's birth in County Mayo at all. (They moved to England weeks later).
    So they'll struggle to deport me.

    They’ll struggle to deport me too, I am as English as Queen Victoria.
    “ So your father's German, you're half German, and you married a German!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,604
    @DamianSurvation
    Voting is now over in the Labour Deputy Leadership election, we think Lucy Powell has won the membership section.

    Final data with
    @LabourList
    shows Powell on 58% of the vote to 42% for Phillipson, with a 5.6% statistical margin of error (other sources of error exist!).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,424
    .

    dixiedean said:

    At times like this I thank the foresight of my Gaelic speaking great grandparents who failed to register my Grandad's birth in County Mayo at all. (They moved to England weeks later).
    So they'll struggle to deport me.

    They’ll struggle to deport me too, I am as English as Queen Victoria.
    I was born in India, but conceived in Blighty.

    Go figure, Katie Lam :lol:
    One of her grandparents was a Jewish child refugee from Nazi Germany.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,753

    dixiedean said:

    At times like this I thank the foresight of my Gaelic speaking great grandparents who failed to register my Grandad's birth in County Mayo at all. (They moved to England weeks later).
    So they'll struggle to deport me.

    They’ll struggle to deport me too, I am as English as Queen Victoria.
    “So your father's German, you're half German, and you married a German!”
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,280
    Nigelb said:

    The entire East Wing of the White House will be gone by Friday. He does not have the authority to do this. Yet he’s doing it. It’s not his house. It’s ours.

    Is there not ONE Republican out there who will say something? Not ONE? Is there not ONE Republican willing to risk taking a blowtorch to their career by standing up in the public square and shouting, “STOP! STOP DESTROYING THIS HOUSE! THIS IS WRONG! STOP!”..

    https://x.com/WalshFreedom/status/1981151755896279305

    The point is, of course, that Trump (and his immediate coterie) do regard it as his property.

    It's far greater important than just the razing of a piece of history. It's Trump showing that only his word matters, irrespective of law or custom.

    This is a bit OTT. The East Wing is quite new and not if much historical importance.

    What's worse is what's he's done to the Rose Garden. And what will inevitably be a hideous replacement for the East Wing - completely out of proportion to the residence. He's the political equivalent to people with plastic lawns/"live laugh love"/white Evoque.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,353
    edited 12:03PM
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    So this isn't a Westminster by-election? Where's the fun in that???

    For one thing, speaking Welsh at the hustings when your opponents don't know it and can't even do a John Redwood.
    My Physics teacher at Ilford County kept banging on about a job interview he had in Wales. He said "And they asked me "can you speak Welsh?" and I knew they were going to ask me that!"
    What did he expect to be asked about, Western Tasmanian?
    Oops, @Carnyx

    I completely messed up the punchline - I should have mentioned he was Welsh :lol:

    The other thing was he kept pronouncing my name "Prasananan".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,753

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    Wasn't Jesus a left wing radical?
    His throwing the money changers out of the Temple was actually about getting rid of unlicensed small traders who were stealing business from the banks.

    He was probably a partner in Goldman Sachs.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,424
    edited 12:06PM
    This is rather interesting.

    Yasa (owned by Mercedes) recently smashed their own record for motor weight, size and horsepower. This production intent motor weighs 28lbs and produces 1,000hp!
    https://x.com/CXCarroll/status/1981050618593845395

    Intended for mass production.

    4000hp AWD EV, anyone ?

    Might be quite useful for hybrid (electric/gas turbine) armoured vehicles - or aircraft.
    It's light enough to open up some very interesting concepts for the latter in particular.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,066
    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    The Church of England has £8 billion in assets and investments and is the 13th biggest landowner and landlord in England. Technically it could keep going with barely any congregation at all for generations. It also gets significant numbers of paying tourists to its English cathedrals. In the west Catholicism is also in decline, the only denominations growing significantly in the UK tend to be Pentecostal evangelical, free church evangelical and from a very small base Greek Orthodox.

    Mullally is of course not an evangelical and has made clear she is more focused on supporting and funding traditional parish ministry than evangelical church plant enthusiast Welby was. Most evangelicals in the C of E are of course conservatives, it is liberal Catholics who tend to be more left of centre
    Shhh, you don't want to let the cathedral cat out of the bag. This sort of disclosure will only end up in a campaign for confiscation. You know, the sort of thing that chap Henry VIII dreamed up.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,521
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Just saw this on X and it seems appropriate today

    I have asked before and I will again. How does the frequency of 'incidents' with new Reform councillors match up to the whole? Rotten Boroughs details on a biweekly basis the utter shit that goes down in local government around the country. I see little different in Reform, except that everyone is paying attention.
    Much more common with Reform, I think. Remember that fewer than 1000 of over 18,000 councillors in the UK are Reform - Lib Dems have more than three times as many, Tories more than four times as many, and Labour more than five times as many. There are a dozen Reform led councils out of 369. They'll hope and expect to grow that in 2026 and beyond, but they're on a par with the Greens as a force in local government at the moment.

    Whilst I appreciate there is some more focus on them, you've got to see numbers of suspensions and problems in the context of a party that is really pretty small in terms of numbers of councillors.
    I reckon that too. Current numbers by party are:

    Labour (5,981), Conservative (4,268), and Liberal Democrats (3,206). Other parties include Reform UK (926), the Green Party (906)
    https://opencouncildata.co.uk/

    Reform have lost 31 in just under 6 months, including 8-9 in September, and half a dozen in recent days. Dates are a little ambiguous of course, as it is a varied process. And that is irregular losses, not involving normal elections.

    Pro-rata for the others would be approx 31 losses for Green, 100 for Lib Dem, 140 for Conservative, and 200 for Labour. I think if any of the others had lost that many - eg 1+ per day for Labour - we would have heard about it.

    I'd love to see comprehensive numbers, which I have not got or time to generate. To my eye, Reform losses could be anything between 3x and about 5x the rate of any of the others, depending on how eg defections from say Con->Ref are counted. Are the 20 Con losses who went to Reform at Conference in the "lost Tories" dataset?

    The easiest numbers to get at would perhaps be amongst the dataset of 1600 Councillors elected in May 2025, or possibly as a proxy amongst Council Leaders leaving their role. There are lots of varied influences (eg fewer paper candidates for the others, people returning to former parties) adding to the Reform loss rate.

    (Obviously politically I try and do my bit to help wash away the foundations of the Reform sandcastle, to get the thing politically 6 feet under as soon as is humanly possible.)
    A much fairer comparison would be of resignations of councillors elected for the first time by party - I suspect that all parties lose a percentage of new councillors, be they people who can't hack it, people who stood as paper candidates and won by accident, or people who turn out to be unable to work constructively with the leadership.

    By comparison, I doubt many councilors heading into their 2nd or 3rd terms drop of shortly after election - but of course, Reform won't have any of them, and the other parties all have lots.

    I'm not convinced Reform's travails with this are either particularly noteworthy or deplorable, nor anything to do with them being somewhat right wing - I think any new party building a councillor base from scratch would have exactly the same issues, regardless of where on the political spectrum they fell.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,353

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    Wasn't Jesus a left wing radical?
    His throwing the money changers out of the Temple was actually about getting rid of unlicensed small traders who were stealing business from the banks.

    He was probably a partner in Goldman Sachs.
    Tsk, @Malmesbury! Next you'll be telling us he was Jewish!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,424
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    The entire East Wing of the White House will be gone by Friday. He does not have the authority to do this. Yet he’s doing it. It’s not his house. It’s ours.

    Is there not ONE Republican out there who will say something? Not ONE? Is there not ONE Republican willing to risk taking a blowtorch to their career by standing up in the public square and shouting, “STOP! STOP DESTROYING THIS HOUSE! THIS IS WRONG! STOP!”..

    https://x.com/WalshFreedom/status/1981151755896279305

    The point is, of course, that Trump (and his immediate coterie) do regard it as his property.

    It's far greater important than just the razing of a piece of history. It's Trump showing that only his word matters, irrespective of law or custom.

    This is a bit OTT. The East Wing is quite new and not if much historical importance.

    What's worse is what's he's done to the Rose Garden. And what will inevitably be a hideous replacement for the East Wing - completely out of proportion to the residence. He's the political equivalent to people with plastic lawns/"live laugh love"/white Evoque.
    I don't think it's in the least OTT.

    It's a very public demonstration of Trump can do what he wants, and cannot be questioned.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,372
    edited 12:12PM
    With respect to @HYUFD 's remarks earlier, I read a piece yesterday where an inclusive-church campaigner called Colin Coward has been doing a "visit services" survey of generally HTB-type churches and church plants in East London. Roughly, he likes traditional forms of service, and progressive attitudes, and has been an inclusiveness campaigner for 3 or 4 decades.

    Very interesting, in that he detects a variety of attitudes - sometimes around local culture not proclaimed policy. He has other pieces with different angles. Four things from it:

    1 - There has been a huge and beautiful renovation project at St John, Hackney (£11m), and the building itself is worth a visit.
    2 - There is surprising variation - for example St Mary Bryanston Square now terms itself an "inclusive charismatic evangelical church". This was a plant from HTB 25 years ago when they had had a separate congregation in St Paul's Onslow Square, aimed at a young (under 30) age group, which has broadened by age since.
    3 - It's an instance of quiet increase in breadth and a new movement over the last decades of what I will call "liberally-minded evangelicals". It's something of a contrast to those who draw sexuality as a red dividing line; the HTB "no further" line has in recent decades been heterosexual 1:1 marriage, whilst they have been keen on promoting eg women in leadership since at least the late 1980s.
    4 - He says he detects more movement on that wing than on the progressive wing.

    Are Charismatic Evangelical Anglican churches becoming more welcoming and open to LGBTQIA+ people?
    https://www.unadulteratedlove.net/blog/2025/8/28/are-charismatic-evangelical-anglican-churches-becoming-more-welcoming-and-open-to-lgbtqia-people
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,433

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    I’d recommend you don’t join a radical jihadist terror group then
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,753
    Nigelb said:

    This is rather interesting.

    Yasa (owned by Mercedes) recently smashed their own record for motor weight, size and horsepower. This production intent motor weighs 28lbs and produces 1,000hp!
    https://x.com/CXCarroll/status/1981050618593845395

    Intended for mass production.

    4000hp AWD EV, anyone ?

    Might be quite useful for hybrid (electric/gas turbine) armoured vehicles - or aircraft.
    It's light enough to open up some very interesting concepts for the latter in particular.

    Hybrid power trains won the weight battle vs gearboxes a while back. Combination of improvements in generators, motors and electronics.

    Electric motors have been lightweight for a long time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,424

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    So this isn't a Westminster by-election? Where's the fun in that???

    For one thing, speaking Welsh at the hustings when your opponents don't know it and can't even do a John Redwood.
    My Physics teacher at Ilford County kept banging on about a job interview he had in Wales. He said "And they asked me "can you speak Welsh?" and I knew they were going to ask me that!"
    What did he expect to be asked about, Western Tasmanian?
    Oops, @Carnyx

    I completely messed up the punchline - I should have mentioned he was Welsh :lol:

    The other thing was he kept pronouncing my name "Prasananan".
    Could have been worse.
    Prasananas might have you banned from PB as a German pineapple.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,213
    edited 12:14PM
    So Radio 4 loses a tenth of its listeners in a year. Well done peeps.. your woke agenda doesn't work.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,372
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    The entire East Wing of the White House will be gone by Friday. He does not have the authority to do this. Yet he’s doing it. It’s not his house. It’s ours.

    Is there not ONE Republican out there who will say something? Not ONE? Is there not ONE Republican willing to risk taking a blowtorch to their career by standing up in the public square and shouting, “STOP! STOP DESTROYING THIS HOUSE! THIS IS WRONG! STOP!”..

    https://x.com/WalshFreedom/status/1981151755896279305

    The point is, of course, that Trump (and his immediate coterie) do regard it as his property.

    It's far greater important than just the razing of a piece of history. It's Trump showing that only his word matters, irrespective of law or custom.

    This is a bit OTT. The East Wing is quite new and not if much historical importance.

    What's worse is what's he's done to the Rose Garden. And what will inevitably be a hideous replacement for the East Wing - completely out of proportion to the residence. He's the political equivalent to people with plastic lawns/"live laugh love"/white Evoque.
    He has elements of Ceausescu and Count Von Hoogstraten in his aesthetic outlook.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,610
    I came through Euston station this morning. All looked very culturally coherent. In case Katie Lam is reading.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,066

    I came through Euston station this morning. All looked very culturally coherent. In case Katie Lam is reading.

    Not a patch on the 1960s though.

    https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/history/11579192.love-tender/#gallery3
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,610

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    It's rather shocking how the main three parties seem utterly disinterested in the centre ground and are (mostly) busy rushing to ape Reform. The Lib Dems aren't, but with their policy of flinging cash at the WASPI lot and comfortable limitation as the party of lovely leafy suburbs and Waitrose shoppers appear thoroughly disinterested in appealing to the sensible left, right and centre.

    Badenoch needs to slap down this Lam nonsense. Threatening to expel law-abiding and tax-paying migrants who have done nothing wrong is morally repugnant and bloody stupid. It reminds me a little of Tyrion lambasting Joffrey as being the first king who was both vicious and an idiot.
    Despite PBers focus on it, I can't recall a LibDem politician mentioning WASPI this year. I don't see it as core LibDem policy.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,676
    algarkirk said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    They keep trotting out the line about it being the first time an English King has prayed with pope since 1534 as if it’s something that used to happen all the time but I can’t find any English ruler who has prayed with a Pope anyway. I think one Scots king did.
    Alfred went to Rome didn't he?

    Two Kings of Scots - Macbeth and James VIII. Admittedly debated at the time.
    Yes, but he wasn't king at the time.
    Thanks, long time since I read the relevant Alfred Duggen novel!
    Never read that, but Pollard's biography of Alfred has him going there when he's a pretty young boy (I think, it's also been a while).
    The Duggan historical novels went out of print and are hard to get nowadays, which is a shame I think. Surprised they haven't been reprinted by people such as OUP and Red Fox, whence I am currently revisiting my childhood reading in the form of Sutcliffe and Treece (and filling in the ones I missed at the time).
    Sword at Sunset, by Rosemary Sutcliffe, is an outstanding novel about Arthur.
    Good to hear; it's on the recently-bought-and-to-read heap on the shelf above my PC!
    In all seriousness, have you thought of joining a library? There's no point in buying books you don't read.
    Wash your mouth out with soap!
    A pairing : ‘tsundoko’ & ‘antilibrary’.

    Tsundoko is Japanese for piling up books ready to read at some later date, it implies that part of the joy is the anticipation, combined with a wistfullness that life is too short.

    An antilibrary is Umberto Eco’s notion that one should curate a personal collection of resources around themes you’re curious about; not shelves of read books. He kept 30 000 of them.

    I like the phrase ‘books do furnish a room’ (incidentally the title of one of Anthony Powell’s Dance to the Music of Time series which I have read and is on my bookshelves) which is literally true and also covers the room of the mind. My partner disagrees, I fear having moved on from expelling the motorbike in the spare room and carbs in the cupboard, unnecessary books may be next. She now reads more books than me but has a very pragmatic attitude towards them.
    There is some pleasure to be had in shelves of books that have been enjoyed, even if unlikely to ever be read again.

    I read perhaps a book every fortnight, and even if I live another 3 decades am unlikely to get back to many, particularly with so many unread books on the shelf. So they are better off elsewhere.

    Sadly, my motorbike went some years ago, though I still have helmet and dreams.
    For book people who have walls of them, they are much more than the book you happen to be reading, and do more than furnish a room. (I am currently on my third trip round DTTMOT). I haven't read all the books I have for the same reason as I haven't drunk all the wine in the cellar (if I had a cellar in my case), and in addition they are a tangible mark not only of where, in your mind, you are and plan to go, but where, in my case over 70 years, you have been. They are savings banks of affection as well as signposts of the future.

    However they do need pruning from time to time, but not uprooting.

    Keeping the books after you have read them is like keeping the empty bottles after you have drunk the wine.

    One belongs in the charity shop*, the other in the recycling bin.

    *Or given to someone visiting your house, left in the "book swap" at the station, or just left on the train/bus/plane if you happen to finish it mid-journey.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,424
    edited 12:23PM

    Nigelb said:

    This is rather interesting.

    Yasa (owned by Mercedes) recently smashed their own record for motor weight, size and horsepower. This production intent motor weighs 28lbs and produces 1,000hp!
    https://x.com/CXCarroll/status/1981050618593845395

    Intended for mass production.

    4000hp AWD EV, anyone ?

    Might be quite useful for hybrid (electric/gas turbine) armoured vehicles - or aircraft.
    It's light enough to open up some very interesting concepts for the latter in particular.

    Hybrid power trains won the weight battle vs gearboxes a while back. Combination of improvements in generators, motors and electronics.

    Electric motors have been lightweight for a long time.
    This is a near 50% improvement on the previous (quite recent) record.
    That's a lot if you're thinking about (eg) unsprung weight, or tilt rotors etc.

    (UK outfit bought by Mercedes..)
  • KnightOutKnightOut Posts: 200
    MattW said:

    With respect to @HYUFD 's remarks earlier, I read a piece yesterday where an inclusive-church campaigner called Colin Coward has been doing a "visit services" survey of generally HTB-type churches and church plants in East London. Roughly, he likes traditional forms of service, and progressive attitudes, and has been an inclusiveness campaigner for 3 or 4 decades.

    Very interesting, in that he detects a variety of attitudes - sometimes around local culture not proclaimed policy. He has other pieces with different angles. Four things from it:

    1 - There has been a huge and beautiful renovation project at St John, Hackney (£11m), and the building itself is worth a visit.
    2 - There is surprising variation - for example St Mary Bryanston Square now terms itself an "inclusive charismatic evangelical church". This was a plant from HTB 25 years ago when they had had a separate congregation in St Paul's Onslow Square, aimed at a young (under 30) age group, which has broadened by age since.
    3 - It's an instance of quiet increase in breadth and a new movement over the last decades of what I will call "liberally-minded evangelicals". It's something of a contrast to those who draw sexuality as a red dividing line; the HTB "no further" line has in recent decades been heterosexual 1:1 marriage, whilst they have been keen on promoting eg women in leadership since at least the late 1980s.
    4 - He says he detects more movement on that wing than on the progressive wing.

    Are Charismatic Evangelical Anglican churches becoming more welcoming and open to LGBTQIA+ people?
    https://www.unadulteratedlove.net/blog/2025/8/28/are-charismatic-evangelical-anglican-churches-becoming-more-welcoming-and-open-to-lgbtqia-people

    Maybe, but it's still not going to attract people like me.

    All I ask for is sky-high Anglo-Catholic worship that is Liberal and Inclusive without being performative and woke. And its underlying politics should be Right-Libertarian, obviously.

    Is that too much to ask?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,610

    dixiedean said:

    At times like this I thank the foresight of my Gaelic speaking great grandparents who failed to register my Grandad's birth in County Mayo at all. (They moved to England weeks later).
    So they'll struggle to deport me.

    They’ll struggle to deport me too, I am as English as Queen Victoria.
    I was born in India, but conceived in Blighty.

    Go figure, Katie Lam :lol:
    My Mum was born in England, but conceived in Dublin (while her parents were on holiday). Can I have an Irish passport?

    Katie Lam is slightly less German than Queen Victoria.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,958

    dixiedean said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    It's rather shocking how the main three parties seem utterly disinterested in the centre ground and are (mostly) busy rushing to ape Reform. The Lib Dems aren't, but with their policy of flinging cash at the WASPI lot and comfortable limitation as the party of lovely leafy suburbs and Waitrose shoppers appear thoroughly disinterested in appealing to the sensible left, right and centre.

    Badenoch needs to slap down this Lam nonsense. Threatening to expel law-abiding and tax-paying migrants who have done nothing wrong is morally repugnant and bloody stupid. It reminds me a little of Tyrion lambasting Joffrey as being the first king who was both vicious and an idiot.
    Despite PBers focus on it, I can't recall a LibDem politician mentioning WASPI this year. I don't see it as core LibDem policy.
    People on PB just looking for things to slag them off for.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,424
    edited 12:27PM
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is rather interesting.

    Yasa (owned by Mercedes) recently smashed their own record for motor weight, size and horsepower. This production intent motor weighs 28lbs and produces 1,000hp!
    https://x.com/CXCarroll/status/1981050618593845395

    Intended for mass production.

    4000hp AWD EV, anyone ?

    Might be quite useful for hybrid (electric/gas turbine) armoured vehicles - or aircraft.
    It's light enough to open up some very interesting concepts for the latter in particular.

    Hybrid power trains won the weight battle vs gearboxes a while back. Combination of improvements in generators, motors and electronics.

    Electric motors have been lightweight for a long time.
    This is a near 50% improvement on the previous (quite recent) record.
    That's a lot if you're thinking about (eg) unsprung weight, or tilt rotors etc.

    (UK outfit bought by Mercedes..)
    Also, this.
    The horsepower makes a nice headline but this is really about weight and torque density. Removing weight from a vehicle is a virtuous cycle. Mercedes estimates these will reduce EV weight by 400Kg with half of that coming from the battery (smaller and cheaper).
    https://x.com/CXCarroll/status/1981210916273180935

    Which is even more relevant for aviation.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,610
    Nigelb said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    Wasn't Jesus a left wing radical?
    Politically, not so much.
    (Render unto Caesar, etc)

    So quite the opposite of (say) a Marxist.
    That's only one interpretation of "Render unto Caesar". Others are available, and more plausible.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,424
    Now do the M62 corridor.

    TODAY the government announced a package for infrastructure, homes and business space for the Oxford-Cambridge Growth Corridor.

    The Growth Corridor could add up to £78 bn to the economy by 2035

    https://x.com/yimbyalliance/status/1981316269660926249

    Which would likely have a greater ROI.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,213

    Nigelb said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    Wasn't Jesus a left wing radical?
    Politically, not so much.
    (Render unto Caesar, etc)

    So quite the opposite of (say) a Marxist.
    That's only one interpretation of "Render unto Caesar". Others are available, and more plausible.
    Render unto the BBC large amounts of money whether you listen or watch.. legalised robbery
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,372
    KnightOut said:

    MattW said:

    With respect to @HYUFD 's remarks earlier, I read a piece yesterday where an inclusive-church campaigner called Colin Coward has been doing a "visit services" survey of generally HTB-type churches and church plants in East London. Roughly, he likes traditional forms of service, and progressive attitudes, and has been an inclusiveness campaigner for 3 or 4 decades.

    Very interesting, in that he detects a variety of attitudes - sometimes around local culture not proclaimed policy. He has other pieces with different angles. Four things from it:

    1 - There has been a huge and beautiful renovation project at St John, Hackney (£11m), and the building itself is worth a visit.
    2 - There is surprising variation - for example St Mary Bryanston Square now terms itself an "inclusive charismatic evangelical church". This was a plant from HTB 25 years ago when they had had a separate congregation in St Paul's Onslow Square, aimed at a young (under 30) age group, which has broadened by age since.
    3 - It's an instance of quiet increase in breadth and a new movement over the last decades of what I will call "liberally-minded evangelicals". It's something of a contrast to those who draw sexuality as a red dividing line; the HTB "no further" line has in recent decades been heterosexual 1:1 marriage, whilst they have been keen on promoting eg women in leadership since at least the late 1980s.
    4 - He says he detects more movement on that wing than on the progressive wing.

    Are Charismatic Evangelical Anglican churches becoming more welcoming and open to LGBTQIA+ people?
    https://www.unadulteratedlove.net/blog/2025/8/28/are-charismatic-evangelical-anglican-churches-becoming-more-welcoming-and-open-to-lgbtqia-people

    Maybe, but it's still not going to attract people like me.

    All I ask for is sky-high Anglo-Catholic worship that is Liberal and Inclusive without being performative and woke. And its underlying politics should be Right-Libertarian, obviously.

    Is that too much to ask?
    I'd say no - which is why imo maintenance of diversity matters.

    Is that possible? We'll know in another half-century.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,610
    Nigelb said:

    .

    dixiedean said:

    At times like this I thank the foresight of my Gaelic speaking great grandparents who failed to register my Grandad's birth in County Mayo at all. (They moved to England weeks later).
    So they'll struggle to deport me.

    They’ll struggle to deport me too, I am as English as Queen Victoria.
    I was born in India, but conceived in Blighty.

    Go figure, Katie Lam :lol:
    One of her grandparents was a Jewish child refugee from Nazi Germany.
    From Wikipedia:

    Her paternal grandfather's family is of Dutch Jewish descent and her paternal grandmother's family were from Germany and included a left-wing senator representing Saxony. Her grandmother's family moved to England to escape political persecution. Most of her grandfather's family was killed in the Holocaust. Her father's parents met while delivering leaflets for the Labour Party in the 1940s.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,433
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    A very interesting Trump legal case.

    Melania (motivated, he has said, by Trump) threatened Michael Wolff (Trump biographer, Epstein biographer with a lot of research material still to come out) with a $1bn lawsuit if he doesn't withdraw and apologise yadda yadda yadda.

    He's moved first by asking for a Declaratory Judgement that any case would be baseless, which could pull all the relevant people into testifying on oath if called into court. He's using anti-SLAPP law.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNQJJszPxV8
    "Melania Trump BLINDSIDED by NEW LAWSUIT over EPSTEIN?!?"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/michael-wolff-melania-trump-epstein-lawsuit-b2850417.html

    Wolff’s central allegation was that it was Epstein who first introduced Melania to Donald, which is provably false and defamatory according to the First Lady.
    It may be false but in what way is it defamatory? There are lots of photos of them all together so she clearly knew him.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,967
    edited 12:32PM
    KnightOut said:

    MattW said:

    With respect to @HYUFD 's remarks earlier, I read a piece yesterday where an inclusive-church campaigner called Colin Coward has been doing a "visit services" survey of generally HTB-type churches and church plants in East London. Roughly, he likes traditional forms of service, and progressive attitudes, and has been an inclusiveness campaigner for 3 or 4 decades.

    Very interesting, in that he detects a variety of attitudes - sometimes around local culture not proclaimed policy. He has other pieces with different angles. Four things from it:

    1 - There has been a huge and beautiful renovation project at St John, Hackney (£11m), and the building itself is worth a visit.
    2 - There is surprising variation - for example St Mary Bryanston Square now terms itself an "inclusive charismatic evangelical church". This was a plant from HTB 25 years ago when they had had a separate congregation in St Paul's Onslow Square, aimed at a young (under 30) age group, which has broadened by age since.
    3 - It's an instance of quiet increase in breadth and a new movement over the last decades of what I will call "liberally-minded evangelicals". It's something of a contrast to those who draw sexuality as a red dividing line; the HTB "no further" line has in recent decades been heterosexual 1:1 marriage, whilst they have been keen on promoting eg women in leadership since at least the late 1980s.
    4 - He says he detects more movement on that wing than on the progressive wing.

    Are Charismatic Evangelical Anglican churches becoming more welcoming and open to LGBTQIA+ people?
    https://www.unadulteratedlove.net/blog/2025/8/28/are-charismatic-evangelical-anglican-churches-becoming-more-welcoming-and-open-to-lgbtqia-people

    Maybe, but it's still not going to attract people like me.

    All I ask for is sky-high Anglo-Catholic worship that is Liberal and Inclusive without being performative and woke. And its underlying politics should be Right-Libertarian, obviously.

    Is that too much to ask?
    I suggest you try St Bartholomew the Great in London. Its priest, Father Marcus Walker is sky high Anglo Catholic BCP Anglican but also a Tory (he was interviewed by Jacob Rees Mogg on his GB news show yesterday) and backed LLF and is not opposed to female ordination
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,900
    edited 12:35PM
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is rather interesting.

    Yasa (owned by Mercedes) recently smashed their own record for motor weight, size and horsepower. This production intent motor weighs 28lbs and produces 1,000hp!
    https://x.com/CXCarroll/status/1981050618593845395

    Intended for mass production.

    4000hp AWD EV, anyone ?

    Might be quite useful for hybrid (electric/gas turbine) armoured vehicles - or aircraft.
    It's light enough to open up some very interesting concepts for the latter in particular.

    Hybrid power trains won the weight battle vs gearboxes a while back. Combination of improvements in generators, motors and electronics.

    Electric motors have been lightweight for a long time.
    This is a near 50% improvement on the previous (quite recent) record.
    That's a lot if you're thinking about (eg) unsprung weight, or tilt rotors etc.

    (UK outfit bought by Mercedes..)
    Also, this.
    The horsepower makes a nice headline but this is really about weight and torque density. Removing weight from a vehicle is a virtuous cycle. Mercedes estimates these will reduce EV weight by 400Kg with half of that coming from the battery (smaller and cheaper).
    https://x.com/CXCarroll/status/1981210916273180935

    Which is even more relevant for aviation.
    How does that work? How does knocking a few tens of pounds off the weight of an electric motor give you a weight saving of 400kg? The weight saving is barely significant compared to the overall weight of an EV, so there's not much scope for knock-on weight savings on the battery, etc.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,353

    Nigelb said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    Wasn't Jesus a left wing radical?
    Politically, not so much.
    (Render unto Caesar, etc)

    So quite the opposite of (say) a Marxist.
    That's only one interpretation of "Render unto Caesar". Others are available, and more plausible.
    I thought its meaning is that he was in favour of separation of Church and State?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,967
    edited 12:35PM
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    The Church of England has £8 billion in assets and investments and is the 13th biggest landowner and landlord in England. Technically it could keep going with barely any congregation at all for generations. It also gets significant numbers of paying tourists to its English cathedrals. In the west Catholicism is also in decline, the only denominations growing significantly in the UK tend to be Pentecostal evangelical, free church evangelical and from a very small base Greek Orthodox.

    Mullally is of course not an evangelical and has made clear she is more focused on supporting and funding traditional parish ministry than evangelical church plant enthusiast Welby was. Most evangelicals in the C of E are of course conservatives, it is liberal Catholics who tend to be more left of centre
    Shhh, you don't want to let the cathedral cat out of the bag. This sort of disclosure will only end up in a campaign for confiscation. You know, the sort of thing that chap Henry VIII dreamed up.
    Hardly, Starmer certainly won't be handing back C of E cathedrals to the Roman Catholics unless they allow women priests and bishops too
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,424

    Nigelb said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    Wasn't Jesus a left wing radical?
    Politically, not so much.
    (Render unto Caesar, etc)

    So quite the opposite of (say) a Marxist.
    That's only one interpretation of "Render unto Caesar". Others are available, and more plausible.
    Nonetheless, I think his message was for the individual rather than being a political one, was it not ?
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 496
    theProle said:

    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Just saw this on X and it seems appropriate today

    I have asked before and I will again. How does the frequency of 'incidents' with new Reform councillors match up to the whole? Rotten Boroughs details on a biweekly basis the utter shit that goes down in local government around the country. I see little different in Reform, except that everyone is paying attention.
    Much more common with Reform, I think. Remember that fewer than 1000 of over 18,000 councillors in the UK are Reform - Lib Dems have more than three times as many, Tories more than four times as many, and Labour more than five times as many. There are a dozen Reform led councils out of 369. They'll hope and expect to grow that in 2026 and beyond, but they're on a par with the Greens as a force in local government at the moment.

    Whilst I appreciate there is some more focus on them, you've got to see numbers of suspensions and problems in the context of a party that is really pretty small in terms of numbers of councillors.
    I reckon that too. Current numbers by party are:

    Labour (5,981), Conservative (4,268), and Liberal Democrats (3,206). Other parties include Reform UK (926), the Green Party (906)
    https://opencouncildata.co.uk/

    Reform have lost 31 in just under 6 months, including 8-9 in September, and half a dozen in recent days. Dates are a little ambiguous of course, as it is a varied process. And that is irregular losses, not involving normal elections.

    Pro-rata for the others would be approx 31 losses for Green, 100 for Lib Dem, 140 for Conservative, and 200 for Labour. I think if any of the others had lost that many - eg 1+ per day for Labour - we would have heard about it.

    I'd love to see comprehensive numbers, which I have not got or time to generate. To my eye, Reform losses could be anything between 3x and about 5x the rate of any of the others, depending on how eg defections from say Con->Ref are counted. Are the 20 Con losses who went to Reform at Conference in the "lost Tories" dataset?

    The easiest numbers to get at would perhaps be amongst the dataset of 1600 Councillors elected in May 2025, or possibly as a proxy amongst Council Leaders leaving their role. There are lots of varied influences (eg fewer paper candidates for the others, people returning to former parties) adding to the Reform loss rate.

    (Obviously politically I try and do my bit to help wash away the foundations of the Reform sandcastle, to get the thing politically 6 feet under as soon as is humanly possible.)
    A much fairer comparison would be of resignations of councillors elected for the first time by party - I suspect that all parties lose a percentage of new councillors, be they people who can't hack it, people who stood as paper candidates and won by accident, or people who turn out to be unable to work constructively with the leadership.

    By comparison, I doubt many councilors heading into their 2nd or 3rd terms drop of shortly after election - but of course, Reform won't have any of them, and the other parties all have lots.

    I'm not convinced Reform's travails with this are either particularly noteworthy or deplorable, nor anything to do with them being somewhat right wing - I think any new party building a councillor base from scratch would have exactly the same issues, regardless of where on the political spectrum they fell.
    Sorry if this is not specifically answering your questions, but in case it's of interest here is my latest published note on councillor defections ....

    https://liberalengland.blogspot.com/2025/09/guest-post-defections-update-lib-dem.html

    It needs updating fairly soon! There doesn't seem to be any slowing down in the number of coiuncillors defecting. And, for what it's worth, I think this might be a more useful measure of political change that local government by-elections.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,958

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    Wasn't Jesus a left wing radical?
    His throwing the money changers out of the Temple was actually about getting rid of unlicensed small traders who were stealing business from the banks.

    He was probably a partner in Goldman Sachs.
    But he had long hair and everything...and he played a guitar...kum bay yahh?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,610
    https://www.wired.com/story/no-ice-probably-didnt-buy-guided-missile-warheads/

    No, ICE (Probably) Didn’t Buy Guided Missile Warheads
    A federal contracting database lists an ICE payment for $61,218 with the payment code for “guided missile warheads and explosive components.” But it appears ICE simply entered the wrong code.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,875
    edited 12:43PM

    https://www.wired.com/story/no-ice-probably-didnt-buy-guided-missile-warheads/

    No, ICE (Probably) Didn’t Buy Guided Missile Warheads
    A federal contracting database lists an ICE payment for $61,218 with the payment code for “guided missile warheads and explosive components.” But it appears ICE simply entered the wrong code.

    An idea for consideration at the next Conservative Party policy review?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,424
    edited 12:44PM

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is rather interesting.

    Yasa (owned by Mercedes) recently smashed their own record for motor weight, size and horsepower. This production intent motor weighs 28lbs and produces 1,000hp!
    https://x.com/CXCarroll/status/1981050618593845395

    Intended for mass production.

    4000hp AWD EV, anyone ?

    Might be quite useful for hybrid (electric/gas turbine) armoured vehicles - or aircraft.
    It's light enough to open up some very interesting concepts for the latter in particular.

    Hybrid power trains won the weight battle vs gearboxes a while back. Combination of improvements in generators, motors and electronics.

    Electric motors have been lightweight for a long time.
    This is a near 50% improvement on the previous (quite recent) record.
    That's a lot if you're thinking about (eg) unsprung weight, or tilt rotors etc.

    (UK outfit bought by Mercedes..)
    Also, this.
    The horsepower makes a nice headline but this is really about weight and torque density. Removing weight from a vehicle is a virtuous cycle. Mercedes estimates these will reduce EV weight by 400Kg with half of that coming from the battery (smaller and cheaper).
    https://x.com/CXCarroll/status/1981210916273180935

    Which is even more relevant for aviation.
    How does that work? How does knocking a few tens of pounds off the weight of an electric motor give you a weight saving of 400kg? The weight saving is barely significant compared to the overall weight of an EV, so there's not much scope for knock-on weight savings on the battery, etc.
    All the other stuff, I guess.
    Most EV motors are currently on the axle, not the wheel. This is small enough to change that.
    The instantaneous power/torque presumably means you can also dispense with gearing.

    I would speculate there's a chain of small efficiency gains, which add up.
    (See, for example additional interior space if the motor is in the wheel, which might mean a fractionally smaller car... which needs a fractionally smaller battery, which means a fractionally smaller car...)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,610

    Nigelb said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    Wasn't Jesus a left wing radical?
    Politically, not so much.
    (Render unto Caesar, etc)

    So quite the opposite of (say) a Marxist.
    That's only one interpretation of "Render unto Caesar". Others are available, and more plausible.
    I thought its meaning is that he was in favour of separation of Church and State?
    That's an interpretation. The context of the story is that people are trying to trick Jesus into saying something that will get him into difficulties with the Roman authorities, so he comes out with a clever comeback rather than that he's making a grand statement about the future relationship of a Church that he had no intention of establishing, nor that he would ever have predicted would happen as he clearly expected the End of Times imminently.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,610
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    Wasn't Jesus a left wing radical?
    Politically, not so much.
    (Render unto Caesar, etc)

    So quite the opposite of (say) a Marxist.
    That's only one interpretation of "Render unto Caesar". Others are available, and more plausible.
    Nonetheless, I think his message was for the individual rather than being a political one, was it not ?
    There are hundreds, if not thousands, of interpretations of Jesus's message. Take your pick!

    I would, I guess, side with scholarship that sees him as preaching strict adherence to Jewish law before the imminent apocalypse. That's arguably both a message to the individual, but also to the community and thus, in a sense, political. But I think it's hard to translate that to a modern political position.
  • OT - The Survation poll had Caerphilly Cons on 4% so the chances of Ref picking up much tactical voting from them has to be questionable
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,424
    .

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    Wasn't Jesus a left wing radical?
    Politically, not so much.
    (Render unto Caesar, etc)

    So quite the opposite of (say) a Marxist.
    That's only one interpretation of "Render unto Caesar". Others are available, and more plausible.
    Nonetheless, I think his message was for the individual rather than being a political one, was it not ?
    There are hundreds, if not thousands, of interpretations of Jesus's message. Take your pick!

    I would, I guess, side with scholarship that sees him as preaching strict adherence to Jewish law before the imminent apocalypse. That's arguably both a message to the individual, but also to the community and thus, in a sense, political. But I think it's hard to translate that to a modern political position.
    Can't argue with that.
    John 16:33 is seems characteristic to me, though.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,610
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    Wasn't Jesus a left wing radical?
    Politically, not so much.
    (Render unto Caesar, etc)

    So quite the opposite of (say) a Marxist.
    That's only one interpretation of "Render unto Caesar". Others are available, and more plausible.
    Nonetheless, I think his message was for the individual rather than being a political one, was it not ?
    There are hundreds, if not thousands, of interpretations of Jesus's message. Take your pick!

    I would, I guess, side with scholarship that sees him as preaching strict adherence to Jewish law before the imminent apocalypse. That's arguably both a message to the individual, but also to the community and thus, in a sense, political. But I think it's hard to translate that to a modern political position.
    Can't argue with that.
    John 16:33 is seems characteristic to me, though.
    The Gospel of John is definitely the most distant from the historical Jesus, however.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,624

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thoughts and non-ecumenical prayers for a particular community in Glasgow.

    BBC Breakfast
    @BBCBreakfast
    1h
    'It's not since 1534 that a British monarch will have prayed next to a Catholic Pope'
    Mark Lowen spoke to #BBCBreakfast from Vatican City where King Charles will take part in a service with Pope Leo, the first time this will have happened since the Church of England split from the Catholic Church

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/

    The King has correctly promoted reconciliation with the Roman Catholic church by this gesture of prayers with the Pope in Rome, also a reflection of the fact that at least as many of his subjects now attend Roman Catholic church services each Sunday as Anglicans do, A significant change from 100 years ago when Christians in the UK were overwhelmingly Church of England or Church of Scotland and of course from the reign of Elizabeth Ist until the Roman Catholic Relief Act in 1791 Roman Catholics were not allowed to publicly worship in Great Britain or Ireland.

    However unless the Roman Catholic church allows women priests and bishops and loosens its rules on remarriage of divorcees in church I can't see a merger between it and the Church of England again. Although the non liturgical prayers for same sex couples the Vatican now allow priests to perform are remarkably similar to the prayers the C of E Synod has now approved in C of E churches under LLF

    Ha, I don;t think it's the universal church which will be introducing heresy to promote a reconciliation. Why buy a failing competitor when you can just take their customers for free.
    If you were a conservative Anglo Catholic Anglican that opposed to female ordination you have likely already long crossed the Tiber or gone Orthodox, certainly since Synod approved women bishops and clergy.

    Most of those remaining in the C of E are therefore largely liberal Catholics or conservative evangelicals. Liberal Catholics have no problem with the new female Archbishop of Canterbury and conservative evangelicals tend to be more anti gay relationships than anti women clergy on the whole (hence 2/3 of Synod voted for female clergy and female bishops on a second attempt but only a bare majority of Synod voted for LLF)
    All true - but it's very much a dying institution coasting on past momentum at this point whilst Catholicism grows even ahead of immigration factors.

    With the enthusiasm young evangelicals seem to have for selling churches and moving in to office buildings with cafes, hard to see the CofE not ending up as a left wing secular enterprise, to whatever extent it isn't already that.
    Wasn't Jesus a left wing radical?
    I'm all onboard for a left wing politics where those that do not work do not eat.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,424
    Any PB commentary on Trump's Russia tariffs ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd6758pn6ylo

    If enforced, then they represent the first real pro Ukraine shift from him.
Sign In or Register to comment.