Skip to content

Apparently Labour’s choice of deputy leader can lose them the next election – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,739
edited 9:23AM in General
Apparently Labour’s choice of deputy leader can lose them the next election – politicalbetting.com

I like Bridget Phillipson but these comments sound like desperation by somebody who is about to lose the deputy leader race. Issues such as the economy and the NHS and not the deputy leader of the Labour party will determine the outcome of the next election.

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,838
    edited 9:32AM
    From initial snippets on X, so treat with caution, this looks like it might the gallery of the Louvre that has been targeted, with 9 pieces reportedly stolen:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Crown_Jewels?wprov=sfla1
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,009
    F1: Over 11 hours since qualifying finished and the Ladbrokes market still isn't fully up.

    *sighs*
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,390

    F1: Over 11 hours since qualifying finished and the Ladbrokes market still isn't fully up.

    *sighs*

    Which market(s) are you looking for?

    https://www.ladbrokes.com/en/sports/event/formula-1/formula-1/world-championship/gp-usa-race/252536867/main-markets
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,903
    On topic, Deputy Leader could cause a problem if she really threw her weight about but she'd be incredibly foolish to do so!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,009

    F1: Over 11 hours since qualifying finished and the Ladbrokes market still isn't fully up.

    *sighs*

    Which market(s) are you looking for?

    https://www.ladbrokes.com/en/sports/event/formula-1/formula-1/world-championship/gp-usa-race/252536867/main-markets
    I quite like the group markets. Also, the non-team mate head to heads can sometimes be worth looking at.

    Anyway, I've made a bet, so that'll be posted shortly.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,142

    F1: Over 11 hours since qualifying finished and the Ladbrokes market still isn't fully up.

    *sighs*

    They are trying to save you money....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,652
    A poll asking the filling might show something

    - How many remembers of the public know that the post of Deputy Leader exists
    - How many know it’s up for grabs
    - How can name the two main candidates.
    - How many actually have an opinion on the candidates.

    My guess is that next to no one would have answers for the latter questions.

    It’s a Labour Party members issue.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,009
    F1: eventually went for Piastri to not be classified at 9.5:
    https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/10/american-grand-prix-2025-pre-race.html

    Been looking shaky, and I've just got a feeling. Could be entirely wrong, of course.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,009

    F1: Over 11 hours since qualifying finished and the Ladbrokes market still isn't fully up.

    *sighs*

    They are trying to save you money....
    You scallywag.

    It's not been a vintage year. Although, to be fair, two bets failed by less than half a second and one failed because Norris had his first reliability failure in about 2 years. And the Piastri to win each way (title) at 14 is practically certain to pay out.
  • As Inspector Clouseau might say.." Ah, Kato..the long ladder trick" 😏

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c62lnennzgdt
  • Pro_Rata said:

    From initial snippets on X, so treat with caution, this looks like it might the gallery of the Louvre that has been targeted, with 9 pieces reportedly stolen:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Crown_Jewels?wprov=sfla1

    If someone is after a set of Crown Jewels, the obvious suspects are King Donald I and the piss artist formerly known as Prince Andrew.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,142
    The state of the candidates for the Deputy Leader tells you all you need to know about the dearth of talent in today's Labour Party.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,390

    F1: Over 11 hours since qualifying finished and the Ladbrokes market still isn't fully up.

    *sighs*

    They are trying to save you money....
    You scallywag.

    It's not been a vintage year. Although, to be fair, two bets failed by less than half a second and one failed because Norris had his first reliability failure in about 2 years. And the Piastri to win each way (title) at 14 is practically certain to pay out.
    It's been a good season for me.

    Backing Piastri to win the title before the start of the season, laying Norris, and recently backing Verstappen at 12/1.

    I might end up in the poorhouse if Norris wins but I won't mind as it means that Dutch shunt hasn't won it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,142

    F1: Over 11 hours since qualifying finished and the Ladbrokes market still isn't fully up.

    *sighs*

    They are trying to save you money....
    You scallywag.

    It's not been a vintage year. Although, to be fair, two bets failed by less than half a second and one failed because Norris had his first reliability failure in about 2 years. And the Piastri to win each way (title) at 14 is practically certain to pay out.
    Fingers crossed for you my friend.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,142
    This made me laugh. From the BBC.

    "This ornate room is where what remains of France’s crown jewels are kept."

    Well, with that level of security, are they surprised?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,393
    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    The clip does not include the words or even sentiment quoted. What Powell does say is to remind people that they are electing the Deputy Leader, not Deputy Prime Minister.
  • A poll asking the filling might show something

    - How many remembers of the public know that the post of Deputy Leader exists
    - How many know it’s up for grabs
    - How can name the two main candidates.
    - How many actually have an opinion on the candidates.

    My guess is that next to no one would have answers for the latter questions.

    It’s a Labour Party members issue.

    But does the post exist ?? It is there only for people too mediocre to be given a real job. When was it last held by a SIGNIFICANT person ?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,393

    This made me laugh. From the BBC.

    "This ornate room is where what remains of France’s crown jewels are kept."

    Well, with that level of security, are they surprised?

    It is the physical equivalent of repeated online hacks. Brenda from Bristol applies.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,563
    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    She's half right. Doing numerous selfies with WASPI women and promising to see that they received justice if you were elected then instantly reneging on it when elected was a big mistake. Just one facet of the same broken promises fckup Labour have made repeatedly.
    Don't remember Powell saying anything at the time, too busy telling everyone that not cutting the WFP would send the UK economy into the toilet I expect.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,322
    edited 10:16AM

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Taco has lived up to his name and won't be letting Ukraine buy Tomahawks.

    Orange is the new yellow.

    He wants Putin to win.
    No, he has said he wants a ceasefire along current lines, he just doesn't want US missiles sent into Russia leading to an escalation, especially as Putin has nukes.

    He could though allow Tomahawks to be used within Ukranian territory as a defensive weapon by Zelensky admittedly
    They would be almost completely useless - and certainly pointless - on Ukrainian territory. Ukraine has all manner of other weapons to do that.

    The whole point about them is their range, which would allow Ukraine to hit military targets in Russia (drone factories, for example).
    Not just their range. Ukraine has weapons with similar range now.

    It's a combination of things - their ability to evade air defences (we laugh at Russian air defences, but Ukraine often sends large numbers of drones in order to hit a single target once - if you send a large number of Tomahawks at a target you hit that target a large number of times); their navigation system is similarly much more advanced.
    One thing we don't know is how self-consuming these poker chips of Trump's are. He was playing games with control of weapons, strikes and intelligence, as ever. But he has also played games by burning down most of his soft power, started explicitly atacking the international and domestic rule of law, and damaged most of his relationships with friendly powers, who have now all learnt the lesson that the USA can never be wholly trusted. So those chips are worth little now; Canada for example is taking a far more cautious line.

    As most of us probably think on PB, the market abhors a vacuum, and so Tomahawk replacements will be along in a few years. If there is one thing we know it is that the USA only plays in its own interest, which under Trump is severed from the interests of all former or temporary allies.

    And it will fill this one (at some point), though the "in bed with a fat, grumpy elephant who wants to f*ck you" geopolitics are replaced by a "shoal of medium and small sharks in a European tank", with different compromises.

    Interesting times. Good morning everyone.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,393

    A poll asking the filling might show something

    - How many remembers of the public know that the post of Deputy Leader exists
    - How many know it’s up for grabs
    - How can name the two main candidates.
    - How many actually have an opinion on the candidates.

    My guess is that next to no one would have answers for the latter questions.

    It’s a Labour Party members issue.

    But does the post exist ?? It is there only for people too mediocre to be given a real job. When was it last held by a SIGNIFICANT person ?
    It was last held by a significant person on the 5th of September, when Angela Rayner resigned.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,626

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    She's half right. Doing numerous selfies with WASPI women and promising to see that they received justice if you were elected then instantly reneging on it when elected was a big mistake. Just one facet of the same broken promises fckup Labour have made repeatedly.
    Don't remember Powell saying anything at the time, too busy telling everyone that not cutting the WFP would send the UK economy into the toilet I expect.
    Yes, she made some nonsensical claim about cutting the WFA.

    You’re right when you call them out for their support of the WASPI women and making them promises they cannot meet. The Lib Dem’s did the same on tuition fees. It’s partly why we have the problems we have, making promises to vested interest groups to get votes that we can never meet in office.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,322
    edited 10:23AM
    FPT:

    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    On the "No Kings" protest: When the Loser came on the political scene, I quickly noticed that he was a monarchist at heart. He cozied up to the Saudis, to North Korea's Kim, and to the UK's monarchs. These three nations have little in common, but they are all monarchies of a sort.

    And his promotion of his children is almost universal in monarchies.

    So, by attacking him with "No Kings", they are attacking a central part of his thinking -- such as it is.

    (Moreover, as your Walter Bagehot observed, monarchies are often attractive to low-information voters.)

    Most kings are highly constrained and aren't nearly as despotic as Trump. But I guess "No tinpot dictators" lacks the resonance of "No Kings"
    "No Kings" is a really stupid slogan, because as you say it completely ignores the existence of constitutional monarchies, and anyway Trump has never claimed to be a king. Presidential systems tend naturally towards dictatorships, and America (or France for that matters) would actually be better as a constitutional monarchy with a Parliamentary system, but then they'd basically be Canada or Australia, and have to question the whole revolution thing.

    What they actually mean is "No Dictators", which I think we can all sign up to. Trump has actually said he'd be a dictator, albeit only on Day One, which was a transparent lie, so I think it makes much more sense as a slogan, even though it has a three syllable word, which is probably at the limits of most Americans' comprehension.
    No Kings is an utterly brilliant slogan. It's a slogan not analysis, they don't need to worry about constitutional monarchies or whatever. The proof that it's doing it right is that they've just mobilized the biggest nationwide demonstration since the Vietnam War and kept it almost entirely peaceful.

    1. It references the founding myth of the nation
    2. It allows for fun fancy dress
    3. It negatively polarizes the other side into saying "Yes, we want Trump to be King" which is a good thing to have out on the table
    Trump charactarised himself as a King immediately after he took up office, in connection with attempting to crush a very small "congestion charge" trial in Manhattan. AFAICS the USA has a VERY deep antipathy to "kings", which is their inner-dialogue about their foundation story. Exaggerated, but it is there and taught as part of the national myth, so reminders as to Trump's never-ending schmuckdom and his attacks on the nation itself may be a good strategy.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/19/trump-backlash-social-media-king

    In general people living in NY like it; suburbanites driving in less so. In the end they are being very wee timorous beasties about introducing the scheme, and it was cut down in charge substantially. I'd call it like CC and the Welsh 20mph limit here; once the value is demonstrated the whinging will pipe down as the balance changes.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2025/jun/16/new-york-congestion-pricing

    (Checking the Telegraph, they have been running "disaster incoming" type articles since 2023 about it, but nothing since it came in in the spring, in the UK paper since that date.)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,903
    edited 10:21AM

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    She's half right. Doing numerous selfies with WASPI women and promising to see that they received justice if you were elected then instantly reneging on it when elected was a big mistake. Just one facet of the same broken promises fckup Labour have made repeatedly.
    Don't remember Powell saying anything at the time, too busy telling everyone that not cutting the WFP would send the UK economy into the toilet I expect.
    My wife has just (well, TBH yesterday) had a letter telling her that as her income (not our income) as declared to HMRC was below £35k she was entitled to this years WFP, and it would be with her later this year.
    Our combined income is over the baseline. Should I sleep on the colder side of the bed, or something?
  • A poll asking the filling might show something

    - How many remembers of the public know that the post of Deputy Leader exists
    - How many know it’s up for grabs
    - How can name the two main candidates.
    - How many actually have an opinion on the candidates.

    My guess is that next to no one would have answers for the latter questions.

    It’s a Labour Party members issue.

    But does the post exist ?? It is there only for people too mediocre to be given a real job. When was it last held by a SIGNIFICANT person ?
    This is absolute nonsense. You can certainly argue about the quality of people in the role, but the idea Deputy Leader of the Labour Party is an insignificant bauble politically is just idiotic.

    Because it's elected, the Deputy Leader is someone with significant clout - they have a mandate that a standard cabinet minister (or shadow), serving at the pleasure of the Leader does not. They have demonstrated a level of support from the membership and trades unions, they have a key NEC role. They are very hard for the Leader to sideline, and tend to represent a somewhat different strand of the Labour Party.

    That was clearly the case for Angela Rayner - her flaws brought her down, but she was not some fringe figure. Tom Watson was an important balance for Corbyn and a thorn in his side. John Prescott was clearly relied upon by Tony Blair very heavily to shore up part of the Labour movement where he struggled. Going further back, Denis Healey was absolutely key in being the adult in the room under Foot, and seeing off the SDP threat.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,563
    edited 10:23AM
    Llafur totally on top of their socials game.

    Will Hayward
    @WillHayCardiff
    15h
    Welsh Labour have genuinely posted this video of their Caerphilly candidate Richard Tunnicliffe on social media.

    Turn the sound on. 🔊🔊

    It had the caption: "Vote for this total diva on Thursday October 23rd."

    I have no idea what to say.


    https://x.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1979628529924136969
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,864
    edited 10:25AM
    Morning P.B.

    A great tweet from the novelist Jonathan Coe.

    My 14-year-old self would never have guessed that, in 50 years' time, all the world's music would be available at the click of a button, you'd navigate the globe by carrying a tiny computer around in your pocket, and the US President would post a video of himself shitting over American citizens.

    https://bsky.app/profile/jonathancoe.bsky.social/post/3m3jypkxtb223
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,142

    Llafur totally on top of their socials game.

    Will Hayward
    @WillHayCardiff
    15h
    Welsh Labour have genuinely posted this video of their Caerphilly candidate Richard Tunnicliffe on social media.

    Turn the sound on. 🔊🔊

    It had the caption: "Vote for this total diva on Thursday October 23rd."

    I have no idea what to say.


    https://x.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1979628529924136969

    Trump will steal that...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,241

    Morning P.B.

    A great tweet from the novelist Jonatjan Coe.

    "My 14-year-old self would never have guessed that, in 50 years' time, all the world's music would be available at the click of a button, you'd navigate the globe by carrying a tiny computer around in your pocket, and the US President would post a video of himself shitting over American citizens."

    https://bsky.app/profile/jonathancoe.bsky.social/post/3m3jypkxtb223

    He's softening up the media for the release of the peepee tapes ?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,778
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    She's half right. Doing numerous selfies with WASPI women and promising to see that they received justice if you were elected then instantly reneging on it when elected was a big mistake. Just one facet of the same broken promises fckup Labour have made repeatedly.
    Don't remember Powell saying anything at the time, too busy telling everyone that not cutting the WFP would send the UK economy into the toilet I expect.
    Yes, she made some nonsensical claim about cutting the WFA.

    You’re right when you call them out for their support of the WASPI women and making them promises they cannot meet. The Lib Dem’s did the same on tuition fees. It’s partly why we have the problems we have, making promises to vested interest groups to get votes that we can never meet in office.
    It's not as if they haven't been told. This from an Institute for Government survey (2014). Don't think the view has changed much and if you look at America, it's the same. Voters value getting things done but it is a worrying point that in the US they trample over people and laws to do it. Would Nigel do the same?


    British public values politicians fulfilling their election pledges, but believe parties currently prioritise party political goals (like getting re-elected, scoring political points and making big announcements). It also found that nearly two-thirds of the public said they would be more willing to vote for a party that showed how it could implement its policies.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,142

    Morning P.B.

    A great tweet from the novelist Jonathan Coe.

    My 14-year-old self would never have guessed that, in 50 years' time, all the world's music would be available at the click of a button, you'd navigate the globe by carrying a tiny computer around in your pocket, and the US President would post a video of himself shitting over American citizens.

    https://bsky.app/profile/jonathancoe.bsky.social/post/3m3jypkxtb223

    It does seem several orders of magnitude worse than "basket of deplorables"....
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,393
    How much you need to earn, to net take home 10k a month

    🇬🇧 United Kingdom £205,000

    🇮🇹 Italy £198,000

    🇫🇷 France £172,000

    🇺🇸 United States £165,000

    🇨🇳 China £161,000

    🇦🇪 United Arab Emirates (Dubai) £120,000

    No wonder so many people are leaving the U.K. for Dubai

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1979438750737346981

    I've no idea if the figures are accurate or even representative. What struck me is the cluster of France, USA & China, and the higher 2-node cluster of Britain and Italy.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,260
    edited 10:28AM
    It is a rather desperate comment from Phillipson but it does (perhaps inadvertently) diagnose a structural problem that the Labour Party has with its rather weird separate deputy leader election.

    Mostly the deputy has been kept close to the leadership (even if coming from a different wing of the party) and fully incorporated into the government machine. But there is no requirement that they are.

    This government struggles terribly with message discipline and clear comms. If one were being charitable you could argue that its record across a whole swath of areas is nowhere near close to being written so it can still achieve successes, but its massive unpopularity stems partly from the fact that its comms has been so catastrophically poor. Electing a figure from outside the government as deputy leader, whose independent opinions will be broadcast far and wide, will do nothing to help Labour combat the problem of looking like a joined up government with a clear purpose. It makes their job harder still.

    I agree with the header that alone this isn’t going to make a huge difference - results will be the biggest factor. But it’s hard to see it helping, and indeed it could prove problematic.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,432

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    She's half right. Doing numerous selfies with WASPI women and promising to see that they received justice if you were elected then instantly reneging on it when elected was a big mistake. Just one facet of the same broken promises fckup Labour have made repeatedly.
    Don't remember Powell saying anything at the time, too busy telling everyone that not cutting the WFP would send the UK economy into the toilet I expect.
    My wife has just (well, TBH yesterday) had a letter telling her that as her income (not our income) as declared to HMRC was below £35k she was entitled to this years WFP, and it would be with her later this year.
    Our combined income is over the baseline. Should I sleep on the colder side of the bed, or something?
    I've just had a letter from HMRC telling me I'll shortly get £300 WFA, and that they'll then take it away again.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,393
    edited 10:31AM

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    She's half right. Doing numerous selfies with WASPI women and promising to see that they received justice if you were elected then instantly reneging on it when elected was a big mistake. Just one facet of the same broken promises fckup Labour have made repeatedly.
    Don't remember Powell saying anything at the time, too busy telling everyone that not cutting the WFP would send the UK economy into the toilet I expect.
    My wife has just (well, TBH yesterday) had a letter telling her that as her income (not our income) as declared to HMRC was below £35k she was entitled to this years WFP, and it would be with her later this year.
    Our combined income is over the baseline. Should I sleep on the colder side of the bed, or something?
    Yes. Buy a 2-zone electric blanket and give wifey both remote controls.
    https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/325373043
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,579

    A poll asking the filling might show something

    - How many remembers of the public know that the post of Deputy Leader exists
    - How many know it’s up for grabs
    - How can name the two main candidates.
    - How many actually have an opinion on the candidates.

    My guess is that next to no one would have answers for the latter questions.

    It’s a Labour Party members issue.

    But does the post exist ?? It is there only for people too mediocre to be given a real job. When was it last held by a SIGNIFICANT person ?
    John Prescott?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,579

    How much you need to earn, to net take home 10k a month

    🇬🇧 United Kingdom £205,000

    🇮🇹 Italy £198,000

    🇫🇷 France £172,000

    🇺🇸 United States £165,000

    🇨🇳 China £161,000

    🇦🇪 United Arab Emirates (Dubai) £120,000

    No wonder so many people are leaving the U.K. for Dubai

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1979438750737346981

    I've no idea if the figures are accurate or even representative. What struck me is the cluster of France, USA & China, and the higher 2-node cluster of Britain and Italy.

    The UAE figure is true, in that there’s no personal income tax.

    Sadly there’s not a lot of £10k a month jobs available.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,113

    Llafur totally on top of their socials game.

    Will Hayward
    @WillHayCardiff
    15h
    Welsh Labour have genuinely posted this video of their Caerphilly candidate Richard Tunnicliffe on social media.

    Turn the sound on. 🔊🔊

    It had the caption: "Vote for this total diva on Thursday October 23rd."

    I have no idea what to say.


    https://x.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1979628529924136969

    What on earth was that?!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,241

    Morning P.B.

    A great tweet from the novelist Jonathan Coe.

    My 14-year-old self would never have guessed that, in 50 years' time, all the world's music would be available at the click of a button, you'd navigate the globe by carrying a tiny computer around in your pocket, and the US President would post a video of himself shitting over American citizens.

    https://bsky.app/profile/jonathancoe.bsky.social/post/3m3jypkxtb223

    It does seem several orders of magnitude worse than "basket of deplorables"....
    The other point, of course, is that Trump aspiring to be a monarch, and shitting on American people, is precisely what the protest was about.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,971
    edited 10:43AM
    Andy_JS said:

    Llafur totally on top of their socials game.

    Will Hayward
    @WillHayCardiff
    15h
    Welsh Labour have genuinely posted this video of their Caerphilly candidate Richard Tunnicliffe on social media.

    Turn the sound on. 🔊🔊

    It had the caption: "Vote for this total diva on Thursday October 23rd."

    I have no idea what to say.


    https://x.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1979628529924136969

    What on earth was that?!

    Llafur totally on top of their socials game.

    Will Hayward
    @WillHayCardiff
    15h
    Welsh Labour have genuinely posted this video of their Caerphilly candidate Richard Tunnicliffe on social media.

    Turn the sound on. 🔊🔊

    It had the caption: "Vote for this total diva on Thursday October 23rd."

    I have no idea what to say.


    https://x.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1979628529924136969

    I did wonder if diva is a Welsh word. It is. But it simply means diva. Edit: According to Google Translate, fwiw.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,250
    Nigelb said:

    Morning P.B.

    A great tweet from the novelist Jonathan Coe.

    My 14-year-old self would never have guessed that, in 50 years' time, all the world's music would be available at the click of a button, you'd navigate the globe by carrying a tiny computer around in your pocket, and the US President would post a video of himself shitting over American citizens.

    https://bsky.app/profile/jonathancoe.bsky.social/post/3m3jypkxtb223

    It does seem several orders of magnitude worse than "basket of deplorables"....
    The other point, of course, is that Trump aspiring to be a monarch, and shitting on American people, is precisely what the protest was about.
    And one way of reading the WH response is "Yes, I'm behaving like the worst sort of king. What are you going to do about it? Nothing, because you can't."
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,903
    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Llafur totally on top of their socials game.

    Will Hayward
    @WillHayCardiff
    15h
    Welsh Labour have genuinely posted this video of their Caerphilly candidate Richard Tunnicliffe on social media.

    Turn the sound on. 🔊🔊

    It had the caption: "Vote for this total diva on Thursday October 23rd."

    I have no idea what to say.


    https://x.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1979628529924136969

    What on earth was that?!

    Llafur totally on top of their socials game.

    Will Hayward
    @WillHayCardiff
    15h
    Welsh Labour have genuinely posted this video of their Caerphilly candidate Richard Tunnicliffe on social media.

    Turn the sound on. 🔊🔊

    It had the caption: "Vote for this total diva on Thursday October 23rd."

    I have no idea what to say.


    https://x.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1979628529924136969

    I did wonder if diva is a Welsh word. It is. But it simply means diva. Edit: According to Google Translate, fwiw.
    Actually Llafur would be well advised to recommend their voters vote Plaid, to stop Reform.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,241
    On the continuing political relevance of Yes Minister.
    https://x.com/Valen10Francois/status/1979519927812776164
  • isamisam Posts: 42,838

    The state of the candidates for the Deputy Leader tells you all you need to know about the dearth of talent in today's Labour Party.

    Is it me getting older or do high profile politicians retire earlier nowadays? That could explain the constant comments about dearth’s of talent on all sides.

    Successive landslides, but for different parties, must have had a big effect as well.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,364
    Pro_Rata said:

    From initial snippets on X, so treat with caution, this looks like it might the gallery of the Louvre that has been targeted, with 9 pieces reportedly stolen:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Crown_Jewels?wprov=sfla1

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c62lnennzgdt
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,364

    Pro_Rata said:

    From initial snippets on X, so treat with caution, this looks like it might the gallery of the Louvre that has been targeted, with 9 pieces reportedly stolen:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Crown_Jewels?wprov=sfla1

    If someone is after a set of Crown Jewels, the obvious suspects are King Donald I and the piss artist formerly known as Prince Andrew.
    But what would the French do to get them back from that nice Mr Putin?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,591
    MattW said:

    How much you need to earn, to net take home 10k a month

    🇬🇧 United Kingdom £205,000

    🇮🇹 Italy £198,000

    🇫🇷 France £172,000

    🇺🇸 United States £165,000

    🇨🇳 China £161,000

    🇦🇪 United Arab Emirates (Dubai) £120,000

    No wonder so many people are leaving the U.K. for Dubai

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1979438750737346981

    I've no idea if the figures are accurate or even representative. What struck me is the cluster of France, USA & China, and the higher 2-node cluster of Britain and Italy.

    It seems entirely unsourced and an exaggerated claim as far as I can see, which is the guys Twitter habit.

    And he's leaving out minor factors such as UK healthcare and other costs being from taxes as compared to take home such as say the USA, never mind currency conversions.

    I'd say it's not worth debunking time.
    There are all sorts of complications. What's the VAT or sales tax rate? What are property taxes?

    I would say that the figures are likely true, because we know a few things:
    1. We know that property tax is lower in the UK than in many other countries.
    2. We know that VAT is higher in most continental European countries than in the UK (e.g. in Italy it is 22%).
    3. I believe also that employer payroll taxes are higher in general in Continental Europe - this means that your take home pay for a nominal salary will be higher, but your take home pay as a proportion of the total cost of employment is likely to be lower, etc.
    4. We know that various changes to the British income tax system (e.g. removal of the personal allowance) while introducing cliff edges and other undesirable effects, have actually made it much more progressive, so a comparison on a relatively large net income, will make the situation in the UK look particularly bad. If you were to look at, say, net take home of £3k a month, then the UK might well not appear to have such a high tax burden.

    The only way to fairly compare the tax burden between countries is to simply look at the total amount of GDP gathered by the state in tax.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,656
    MattW said:

    How much you need to earn, to net take home 10k a month

    🇬🇧 United Kingdom £205,000

    🇮🇹 Italy £198,000

    🇫🇷 France £172,000

    🇺🇸 United States £165,000

    🇨🇳 China £161,000

    🇦🇪 United Arab Emirates (Dubai) £120,000

    No wonder so many people are leaving the U.K. for Dubai

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1979438750737346981

    I've no idea if the figures are accurate or even representative. What struck me is the cluster of France, USA & China, and the higher 2-node cluster of Britain and Italy.

    It seems entirely unsourced and an exaggerated claim as far as I can see, which is the guys Twitter habit.

    And he's leaving out minor factors such as UK healthcare and other costs being from taxes as compared to take home such as say the USA, never mind currency conversions.

    I'd say it's not worth debunking time.
    For us it would be £150k, no currency conversions and an NHS etc.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,903
    isam said:

    The state of the candidates for the Deputy Leader tells you all you need to know about the dearth of talent in today's Labour Party.

    Is it me getting older or do high profile politicians retire earlier nowadays? That could explain the constant comments about dearth’s of talent on all sides.

    Successive landslides, but for different parties, must have had a big effect as well.
    I don't know why Party Leaders seem to have to retire when they lose an election. Churchill and Attlee didn't. ISTR Macmillan did, but Home didn't immediately and neither Heath nor Wilson did.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,557

    isam said:

    The state of the candidates for the Deputy Leader tells you all you need to know about the dearth of talent in today's Labour Party.

    Is it me getting older or do high profile politicians retire earlier nowadays? That could explain the constant comments about dearth’s of talent on all sides.

    Successive landslides, but for different parties, must have had a big effect as well.
    I don't know why Party Leaders seem to have to retire when they lose an election. Churchill and Attlee didn't. ISTR Macmillan did, but Home didn't immediately and neither Heath nor Wilson did.
    Macmillan never lost an election. He resigned in 1963 while still PM. Heath was forced to retire after an election defeat, as were Home and Callaghan, but not immediately.

    In fact the first PM to resign immediately after losing an election and because of it was John Major, surprisingly.

    But Foot and later Hague kind of set a different precedent.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,322

    MattW said:

    How much you need to earn, to net take home 10k a month

    🇬🇧 United Kingdom £205,000

    🇮🇹 Italy £198,000

    🇫🇷 France £172,000

    🇺🇸 United States £165,000

    🇨🇳 China £161,000

    🇦🇪 United Arab Emirates (Dubai) £120,000

    No wonder so many people are leaving the U.K. for Dubai

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1979438750737346981

    I've no idea if the figures are accurate or even representative. What struck me is the cluster of France, USA & China, and the higher 2-node cluster of Britain and Italy.

    It seems entirely unsourced and an exaggerated claim as far as I can see, which is the guys Twitter habit.

    And he's leaving out minor factors such as UK healthcare and other costs being from taxes as compared to take home such as say the USA, never mind currency conversions.

    I'd say it's not worth debunking time.
    There are all sorts of complications. What's the VAT or sales tax rate? What are property taxes?

    I would say that the figures are likely true, because we know a few things:
    1. We know that property tax is lower in the UK than in many other countries.
    2. We know that VAT is higher in most continental European countries than in the UK (e.g. in Italy it is 22%).
    3. I believe also that employer payroll taxes are higher in general in Continental Europe - this means that your take home pay for a nominal salary will be higher, but your take home pay as a proportion of the total cost of employment is likely to be lower, etc.
    4. We know that various changes to the British income tax system (e.g. removal of the personal allowance) while introducing cliff edges and other undesirable effects, have actually made it much more progressive, so a comparison on a relatively large net income, will make the situation in the UK look particularly bad. If you were to look at, say, net take home of £3k a month, then the UK might well not appear to have such a high tax burden.

    The only way to fairly compare the tax burden between countries is to simply look at the total amount of GDP gathered by the state in tax.
    I've unbent a little and had a look at the UK number. It works out for a single income, working age (ie paying NI), without exemptions, pension payments etc, in the HMRC calculator as 205k -> 120k.

    So, as you say - it's all about where Govt expenditure is paid for from. And is highly distorted.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,557
    On topic, how many ordinary people will even know who the deputy leader of the Labour Party is? Especially as she won't be deputy PM as well.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,903
    ydoethur said:

    On topic, how many ordinary people will even know who the deputy leader of the Labour Party is? Especially as she won't be deputy PM as well.

    How many care?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,250
    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    The state of the candidates for the Deputy Leader tells you all you need to know about the dearth of talent in today's Labour Party.

    Is it me getting older or do high profile politicians retire earlier nowadays? That could explain the constant comments about dearth’s of talent on all sides.

    Successive landslides, but for different parties, must have had a big effect as well.
    I don't know why Party Leaders seem to have to retire when they lose an election. Churchill and Attlee didn't. ISTR Macmillan did, but Home didn't immediately and neither Heath nor Wilson did.
    Macmillan never lost an election. He resigned in 1963 while still PM. Heath was forced to retire after an election defeat, as were Home and Callaghan, but not immediately.

    In fact the first PM to resign immediately after losing an election and because of it was John Major, surprisingly.

    But Foot and later Hague kind of set a different precedent.
    It's probably one of those ways that public culture has changed. We're less deferential and more inclined to say "which bit of the 'no' we told you last time did you fail to understand?" It's reached the stage that the pendulum doesn't really swing now until all the top figures from last time have left the stage.

    Understandable in many ways, but it comes at a cost. Thatcher's 1979 team had plenty of people who knew how to work the system from day one. Blair in 1997, Cameron in 2010 and Starmer in 2024 not so many. (And whatever you think of the validity of what EdM has done at energy, he has been able to do things.)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,420

    isam said:

    The state of the candidates for the Deputy Leader tells you all you need to know about the dearth of talent in today's Labour Party.

    Is it me getting older or do high profile politicians retire earlier nowadays? That could explain the constant comments about dearth’s of talent on all sides.

    Successive landslides, but for different parties, must have had a big effect as well.
    I don't know why Party Leaders seem to have to retire when they lose an election. Churchill and Attlee didn't. ISTR Macmillan did, but Home didn't immediately and neither Heath nor Wilson did.
    Which of the last few party leaders would you actually want it parliament still?

    Corbyn - not really - still active
    Ed Miliband - dont care - still active
    Gordon Brown - probably but is 74 now, retired at 64
    Blair - yes - but has his own involvement in politics outside parliament

    Rishi - dont care
    Truss - no
    Boris - no
    May - yes - retired at 69 with high chance of losing seat if tried to carry on. played positive role post PM
    Cameron - yes - probably the biggest loss of recent big two leaders
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,393
    Jacob Rees-Mogg in a noomy suit in a noomy room recommends five books in a 10-minute video:-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9baun-wsM4

    The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations
    Leave it to Psmith by P.G. Wodehouse
    The Difference Between An Absolute And Limited Monarchy by Sir John Fortescue
    Reigning Error: Crisis of World Inflation Hardcover by William Rees-Mogg
    Dominion: The Making of the Western Mind by Tom Holland
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,579

    MattW said:

    How much you need to earn, to net take home 10k a month

    🇬🇧 United Kingdom £205,000

    🇮🇹 Italy £198,000

    🇫🇷 France £172,000

    🇺🇸 United States £165,000

    🇨🇳 China £161,000

    🇦🇪 United Arab Emirates (Dubai) £120,000

    No wonder so many people are leaving the U.K. for Dubai

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1979438750737346981

    I've no idea if the figures are accurate or even representative. What struck me is the cluster of France, USA & China, and the higher 2-node cluster of Britain and Italy.

    It seems entirely unsourced and an exaggerated claim as far as I can see, which is the guys Twitter habit.

    And he's leaving out minor factors such as UK healthcare and other costs being from taxes as compared to take home such as say the USA, never mind currency conversions.

    I'd say it's not worth debunking time.
    There are all sorts of complications. What's the VAT or sales tax rate? What are property taxes?

    I would say that the figures are likely true, because we know a few things:
    1. We know that property tax is lower in the UK than in many other countries.
    2. We know that VAT is higher in most continental European countries than in the UK (e.g. in Italy it is 22%).
    3. I believe also that employer payroll taxes are higher in general in Continental Europe - this means that your take home pay for a nominal salary will be higher, but your take home pay as a proportion of the total cost of employment is likely to be lower, etc.
    4. We know that various changes to the British income tax system (e.g. removal of the personal allowance) while introducing cliff edges and other undesirable effects, have actually made it much more progressive, so a comparison on a relatively large net income, will make the situation in the UK look particularly bad. If you were to look at, say, net take home of £3k a month, then the UK might well not appear to have such a high tax burden.

    The only way to fairly compare the tax burden between countries is to simply look at the total amount of GDP gathered by the state in tax.
    UAE cost of living:

    Income tax 0%
    Capital gains tax 0%
    Corporation tax 7%
    VAT 5%
    SDLT 4%
    Council tax 5% of rentable value
    Healthcare: private for foreigners, £400/month for gold plan
    Education: private for foreigners, similar to UK day school fees. £15k/year
    Petrol 52p/litre
    Car registration £80/year

    Govt revenue/GDP 28%
    Govt spending/GDP 24%
  • lockhimuplockhimup Posts: 67
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    How much you need to earn, to net take home 10k a month

    🇬🇧 United Kingdom £205,000

    🇮🇹 Italy £198,000

    🇫🇷 France £172,000

    🇺🇸 United States £165,000

    🇨🇳 China £161,000

    🇦🇪 United Arab Emirates (Dubai) £120,000

    No wonder so many people are leaving the U.K. for Dubai

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1979438750737346981

    I've no idea if the figures are accurate or even representative. What struck me is the cluster of France, USA & China, and the higher 2-node cluster of Britain and Italy.

    It seems entirely unsourced and an exaggerated claim as far as I can see, which is the guys Twitter habit.

    And he's leaving out minor factors such as UK healthcare and other costs being from taxes as compared to take home such as say the USA, never mind currency conversions.

    I'd say it's not worth debunking time.
    There are all sorts of complications. What's the VAT or sales tax rate? What are property taxes?

    I would say that the figures are likely true, because we know a few things:
    1. We know that property tax is lower in the UK than in many other countries.
    2. We know that VAT is higher in most continental European countries than in the UK (e.g. in Italy it is 22%).
    3. I believe also that employer payroll taxes are higher in general in Continental Europe - this means that your take home pay for a nominal salary will be higher, but your take home pay as a proportion of the total cost of employment is likely to be lower, etc.
    4. We know that various changes to the British income tax system (e.g. removal of the personal allowance) while introducing cliff edges and other undesirable effects, have actually made it much more progressive, so a comparison on a relatively large net income, will make the situation in the UK look particularly bad. If you were to look at, say, net take home of £3k a month, then the UK might well not appear to have such a high tax burden.

    The only way to fairly compare the tax burden between countries is to simply look at the total amount of GDP gathered by the state in tax.
    UAE cost of living:

    Income tax 0%
    Capital gains tax 0%
    Corporation tax 7%
    VAT 5%
    SDLT 4%
    Council tax 5% of rentable value
    Healthcare: private for foreigners, £400/month for gold plan
    Education: private for foreigners, similar to UK day school fees. £15k/year
    Petrol 52p/litre
    Car registration £80/year

    Govt revenue/GDP 28%
    Govt spending/GDP 24%
    The benefits of nationalised industry
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,965
    I just think it's adorable that someone thinks Labour hasn't lost the next election.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,298
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    How much you need to earn, to net take home 10k a month

    🇬🇧 United Kingdom £205,000

    🇮🇹 Italy £198,000

    🇫🇷 France £172,000

    🇺🇸 United States £165,000

    🇨🇳 China £161,000

    🇦🇪 United Arab Emirates (Dubai) £120,000

    No wonder so many people are leaving the U.K. for Dubai

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1979438750737346981

    I've no idea if the figures are accurate or even representative. What struck me is the cluster of France, USA & China, and the higher 2-node cluster of Britain and Italy.

    It seems entirely unsourced and an exaggerated claim as far as I can see, which is the guys Twitter habit.

    And he's leaving out minor factors such as UK healthcare and other costs being from taxes as compared to take home such as say the USA, never mind currency conversions.

    I'd say it's not worth debunking time.
    There are all sorts of complications. What's the VAT or sales tax rate? What are property taxes?

    I would say that the figures are likely true, because we know a few things:
    1. We know that property tax is lower in the UK than in many other countries.
    2. We know that VAT is higher in most continental European countries than in the UK (e.g. in Italy it is 22%).
    3. I believe also that employer payroll taxes are higher in general in Continental Europe - this means that your take home pay for a nominal salary will be higher, but your take home pay as a proportion of the total cost of employment is likely to be lower, etc.
    4. We know that various changes to the British income tax system (e.g. removal of the personal allowance) while introducing cliff edges and other undesirable effects, have actually made it much more progressive, so a comparison on a relatively large net income, will make the situation in the UK look particularly bad. If you were to look at, say, net take home of £3k a month, then the UK might well not appear to have such a high tax burden.

    The only way to fairly compare the tax burden between countries is to simply look at the total amount of GDP gathered by the state in tax.
    UAE cost of living:

    Income tax 0%
    Capital gains tax 0%
    Corporation tax 7%
    VAT 5%
    SDLT 4%
    Council tax 5% of rentable value
    Healthcare: private for foreigners, £400/month for gold plan
    Education: private for foreigners, similar to UK day school fees. £15k/year
    Petrol 52p/litre
    Car registration £80/year

    Govt revenue/GDP 28%
    Govt spending/GDP 24%
    Political freedoms 0%

    :innocent:
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,647

    MattW said:

    How much you need to earn, to net take home 10k a month

    🇬🇧 United Kingdom £205,000

    🇮🇹 Italy £198,000

    🇫🇷 France £172,000

    🇺🇸 United States £165,000

    🇨🇳 China £161,000

    🇦🇪 United Arab Emirates (Dubai) £120,000

    No wonder so many people are leaving the U.K. for Dubai

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1979438750737346981

    I've no idea if the figures are accurate or even representative. What struck me is the cluster of France, USA & China, and the higher 2-node cluster of Britain and Italy.

    It seems entirely unsourced and an exaggerated claim as far as I can see, which is the guys Twitter habit.

    And he's leaving out minor factors such as UK healthcare and other costs being from taxes as compared to take home such as say the USA, never mind currency conversions.

    I'd say it's not worth debunking time.
    There are all sorts of complications. What's the VAT or sales tax rate? What are property taxes?

    I would say that the figures are likely true, because we know a few things:
    1. We know that property tax is lower in the UK than in many other countries.
    2. We know that VAT is higher in most continental European countries than in the UK (e.g. in Italy it is 22%).
    3. I believe also that employer payroll taxes are higher in general in Continental Europe - this means that your take home pay for a nominal salary will be higher, but your take home pay as a proportion of the total cost of employment is likely to be lower, etc.
    4. We know that various changes to the British income tax system (e.g. removal of the personal allowance) while introducing cliff edges and other undesirable effects, have actually made it much more progressive, so a comparison on a relatively large net income, will make the situation in the UK look particularly bad. If you were to look at, say, net take home of £3k a month, then the UK might well not appear to have such a high tax burden.

    The only way to fairly compare the tax burden between countries is to simply look at the total amount of GDP gathered by the state in tax.
    It is worth looking at the taxes on employment overall as that is something a lot of people go on about.

    In fact tax on emplyment is well below that of most other European countries at around 31% of the cost of Labour. In Belgium - the highest in Europe - it is 52%. Only Switzerland is lower.

    Whilst I understand the calls for moving from taxing Labour to taxing wealth, compared to most of the rest of Europe we tax Labour far less.

    https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/eu/tax-burden-labor-europe-2024/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,579

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    How much you need to earn, to net take home 10k a month

    🇬🇧 United Kingdom £205,000

    🇮🇹 Italy £198,000

    🇫🇷 France £172,000

    🇺🇸 United States £165,000

    🇨🇳 China £161,000

    🇦🇪 United Arab Emirates (Dubai) £120,000

    No wonder so many people are leaving the U.K. for Dubai

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1979438750737346981

    I've no idea if the figures are accurate or even representative. What struck me is the cluster of France, USA & China, and the higher 2-node cluster of Britain and Italy.

    It seems entirely unsourced and an exaggerated claim as far as I can see, which is the guys Twitter habit.

    And he's leaving out minor factors such as UK healthcare and other costs being from taxes as compared to take home such as say the USA, never mind currency conversions.

    I'd say it's not worth debunking time.
    There are all sorts of complications. What's the VAT or sales tax rate? What are property taxes?

    I would say that the figures are likely true, because we know a few things:
    1. We know that property tax is lower in the UK than in many other countries.
    2. We know that VAT is higher in most continental European countries than in the UK (e.g. in Italy it is 22%).
    3. I believe also that employer payroll taxes are higher in general in Continental Europe - this means that your take home pay for a nominal salary will be higher, but your take home pay as a proportion of the total cost of employment is likely to be lower, etc.
    4. We know that various changes to the British income tax system (e.g. removal of the personal allowance) while introducing cliff edges and other undesirable effects, have actually made it much more progressive, so a comparison on a relatively large net income, will make the situation in the UK look particularly bad. If you were to look at, say, net take home of £3k a month, then the UK might well not appear to have such a high tax burden.

    The only way to fairly compare the tax burden between countries is to simply look at the total amount of GDP gathered by the state in tax.
    UAE cost of living:

    Income tax 0%
    Capital gains tax 0%
    Corporation tax 7%
    VAT 5%
    SDLT 4%
    Council tax 5% of rentable value
    Healthcare: private for foreigners, £400/month for gold plan
    Education: private for foreigners, similar to UK day school fees. £15k/year
    Petrol 52p/litre
    Car registration £80/year

    Govt revenue/GDP 28%
    Govt spending/GDP 24%
    Political freedoms 0%

    :innocent:
    Last Parliamentary election: 2023.

    https://u.ae/en/about-the-uae/the-uae-government/the-federal-national-council-
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,778

    I just think it's adorable that someone thinks Labour hasn't lost the next election.

    FYI There are 272 Constituencies which have elected the same party in 2010, 2015, 2017, 2019 and 2024. None are Reform. So there are likely only 378 Constituencies in play. Odds on a hung Parliament or a minority Labour should be good.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,298
    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    The state of the candidates for the Deputy Leader tells you all you need to know about the dearth of talent in today's Labour Party.

    Is it me getting older or do high profile politicians retire earlier nowadays? That could explain the constant comments about dearth’s of talent on all sides.

    Successive landslides, but for different parties, must have had a big effect as well.
    I don't know why Party Leaders seem to have to retire when they lose an election. Churchill and Attlee didn't. ISTR Macmillan did, but Home didn't immediately and neither Heath nor Wilson did.
    Macmillan never lost an election. He resigned in 1963 while still PM. Heath was forced to retire after an election defeat, as were Home and Callaghan, but not immediately.

    In fact the first PM to resign immediately after losing an election and because of it was John Major, surprisingly.

    But Foot and later Hague kind of set a different precedent.
    IDS never lost an election!
    Truss never lost an election!
    Boris never lost an election!

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,965
    Battlebus said:

    I just think it's adorable that someone thinks Labour hasn't lost the next election.

    FYI There are 272 Constituencies which have elected the same party in 2010, 2015, 2017, 2019 and 2024. None are Reform. So there are likely only 378 Constituencies in play. Odds on a hung Parliament or a minority Labour should be good.
    It would have been remarkable had Reform won those consituencies pre-2024, given its lack of existence.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,298
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    How much you need to earn, to net take home 10k a month

    🇬🇧 United Kingdom £205,000

    🇮🇹 Italy £198,000

    🇫🇷 France £172,000

    🇺🇸 United States £165,000

    🇨🇳 China £161,000

    🇦🇪 United Arab Emirates (Dubai) £120,000

    No wonder so many people are leaving the U.K. for Dubai

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1979438750737346981

    I've no idea if the figures are accurate or even representative. What struck me is the cluster of France, USA & China, and the higher 2-node cluster of Britain and Italy.

    It seems entirely unsourced and an exaggerated claim as far as I can see, which is the guys Twitter habit.

    And he's leaving out minor factors such as UK healthcare and other costs being from taxes as compared to take home such as say the USA, never mind currency conversions.

    I'd say it's not worth debunking time.
    There are all sorts of complications. What's the VAT or sales tax rate? What are property taxes?

    I would say that the figures are likely true, because we know a few things:
    1. We know that property tax is lower in the UK than in many other countries.
    2. We know that VAT is higher in most continental European countries than in the UK (e.g. in Italy it is 22%).
    3. I believe also that employer payroll taxes are higher in general in Continental Europe - this means that your take home pay for a nominal salary will be higher, but your take home pay as a proportion of the total cost of employment is likely to be lower, etc.
    4. We know that various changes to the British income tax system (e.g. removal of the personal allowance) while introducing cliff edges and other undesirable effects, have actually made it much more progressive, so a comparison on a relatively large net income, will make the situation in the UK look particularly bad. If you were to look at, say, net take home of £3k a month, then the UK might well not appear to have such a high tax burden.

    The only way to fairly compare the tax burden between countries is to simply look at the total amount of GDP gathered by the state in tax.
    UAE cost of living:

    Income tax 0%
    Capital gains tax 0%
    Corporation tax 7%
    VAT 5%
    SDLT 4%
    Council tax 5% of rentable value
    Healthcare: private for foreigners, £400/month for gold plan
    Education: private for foreigners, similar to UK day school fees. £15k/year
    Petrol 52p/litre
    Car registration £80/year

    Govt revenue/GDP 28%
    Govt spending/GDP 24%
    Political freedoms 0%

    :innocent:
    Last Parliamentary election: 2023.

    https://u.ae/en/about-the-uae/the-uae-government/the-federal-national-council-
    Actually I was a bit harsh. Freedom House gives UAE a score of 18/100, same as DRC, Egypt and Ethiopia.

    https://freedomhouse.org/country/scores
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 2,059

    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    The state of the candidates for the Deputy Leader tells you all you need to know about the dearth of talent in today's Labour Party.

    Is it me getting older or do high profile politicians retire earlier nowadays? That could explain the constant comments about dearth’s of talent on all sides.

    Successive landslides, but for different parties, must have had a big effect as well.
    I don't know why Party Leaders seem to have to retire when they lose an election. Churchill and Attlee didn't. ISTR Macmillan did, but Home didn't immediately and neither Heath nor Wilson did.
    Macmillan never lost an election. He resigned in 1963 while still PM. Heath was forced to retire after an election defeat, as were Home and Callaghan, but not immediately.

    In fact the first PM to resign immediately after losing an election and because of it was John Major, surprisingly.

    But Foot and later Hague kind of set a different precedent.
    IDS never lost an election!
    Truss never lost an election!
    Boris never lost an election!

    I think since 1945, most Prime Minister changes have occurred as a result of internal party machinations, not general elections.
    Attlee, Churchill, Wilson, Thatcher, Blair, Cameron and now Starmer all became PM immediately after a GE (and you might even argue not necessarily Cameron - it would've been possible for Brown to have stayed on).
    Eden, MacMillan, Home, Callaghan, Major, Brown, May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak all become PM as a result of internal party politics. And again, maybe Cameron - depends how you viewed May 2010.

    And as a result, it's perfectly possible to be PM without ever fighting an election (Truss) or being PM but then being booted out at the election as the country didn't like the choice foisted upon them (Home, Callaghan, Brown and Sunak).

    Having said that, I prefer our system. It allows for interesting facts like this, and means you can become PM without necessarily having to win a GE.

    It's been a long time since I've seen the shows, but didn't both Hacker and Urqhart become PM this way?
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,332

    It is a rather desperate comment from Phillipson but it does (perhaps inadvertently) diagnose a structural problem that the Labour Party has with its rather weird separate deputy leader election.

    Mostly the deputy has been kept close to the leadership (even if coming from a different wing of the party) and fully incorporated into the government machine. But there is no requirement that they are.

    This government struggles terribly with message discipline and clear comms. If one were being charitable you could argue that its record across a whole swath of areas is nowhere near close to being written so it can still achieve successes, but its massive unpopularity stems partly from the fact that its comms has been so catastrophically poor. Electing a figure from outside the government as deputy leader, whose independent opinions will be broadcast far and wide, will do nothing to help Labour combat the problem of looking like a joined up government with a clear purpose. It makes their job harder still.

    I agree with the header that alone this isn’t going to make a huge difference - results will be the biggest factor. But it’s hard to see it helping, and indeed it could prove problematic.

    It does seem like a rather odd system. You could perhaps imagine it working OK where the deputy functions as the representative of the backbench party to the leadership: better handling of that relationship might have averted the welfare reform backdown disaster, for instance. But equally the role might be pointless figurehead or source of a split.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,579
    Today’s Russian oil refinery with a smoking problem, is in Novokuybyshevsk.

    That’s an awful long way from Ukraine, about 1,500km.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1979866700125524349
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,626
    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    Sigh. Remember folks, before they get rid of that useless prat Starmer they really need to be sure his replacement is not even worse. Powell is worse.
    She is, and it’s not just her. Hopeless as she is. Across the political spectrum it is hard to see where there are real leaders. The Tories, no, the Lib Dem’s have a twat in a wetsuit and a load of bland backbencher types. Reform, not a chance. Farage is no leader, he’s a disruptor and where is the scrutiny of their politics. The Greens are all student politics.

    It’s most disheartening.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,850
    Yes, nobody cares about the Labour leadership election except for Labour insiders, members and politics geeks like us.

    Indeed if Powell, a Burnham supporter wins if it has any impact for Labour it might be slightly positive given Burnham polls better with the public than Starmer
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,420
    edited 12:05PM
    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    Sigh. Remember folks, before they get rid of that useless prat Starmer they really need to be sure his replacement is not even worse. Powell is worse.
    She is, and it’s not just her. Hopeless as she is. Across the political spectrum it is hard to see where there are real leaders. The Tories, no, the Lib Dem’s have a twat in a wetsuit and a load of bland backbencher types. Reform, not a chance. Farage is no leader, he’s a disruptor and where is the scrutiny of their politics. The Greens are all student politics.

    It’s most disheartening.
    Whilst I concur at what point do the Great British Public have to take their share of the blame for this rather than just lamenting the politicians and parties. Our preferences for low taxes, high spending and fairy tales make politics a simple shallow game and governance an unwinnable one.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,850
    edited 12:06PM
    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    Sigh. Remember folks, before they get rid of that useless prat Starmer they really need to be sure his replacement is not even worse. Powell is worse.
    She is, and it’s not just her. Hopeless as she is. Across the political spectrum it is hard to see where there are real leaders. The Tories, no, the Lib Dem’s have a twat in a wetsuit and a load of bland backbencher types. Reform, not a chance. Farage is no leader, he’s a disruptor and where is the scrutiny of their politics. The Greens are all student politics.

    It’s most disheartening.
    Cleverly on that basis might be good. Warmer and more charismatic than Starmer, a former Home and Foreign Secretary and more serious than Davey and more heavyweight than Kemi, more centrist than Farage and Jenrick and not as populist and anti immigrant and not a hard left ranter like Polanski
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,626

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    Sigh. Remember folks, before they get rid of that useless prat Starmer they really need to be sure his replacement is not even worse. Powell is worse.
    She is, and it’s not just her. Hopeless as she is. Across the political spectrum it is hard to see where there are real leaders. The Tories, no, the Lib Dem’s have a twat in a wetsuit and a load of bland backbencher types. Reform, not a chance. Farage is no leader, he’s a disruptor and where is the scrutiny of their politics. The Greens are all student politics.

    It’s most disheartening.
    Whilst I concur at what point do the Great British Public have to take their share of the blame for this rather than just lamenting the politicians and parties. Our preferences for low taxes, high spending and fairy tales make politics a simple shallow game and governance an unwinnable one.
    I totally agree.

    I’m a strong believer in society gets the police it deserves and politicians it deserves.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,850

    How much you need to earn, to net take home 10k a month

    🇬🇧 United Kingdom £205,000

    🇮🇹 Italy £198,000

    🇫🇷 France £172,000

    🇺🇸 United States £165,000

    🇨🇳 China £161,000

    🇦🇪 United Arab Emirates (Dubai) £120,000

    No wonder so many people are leaving the U.K. for Dubai

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1979438750737346981

    I've no idea if the figures are accurate or even representative. What struck me is the cluster of France, USA & China, and the higher 2-node cluster of Britain and Italy.

    Not many LGBT or women with significant careers heading to Dubai though for obvious reasons.

    Interesting that despite its high tax reputation at the moment, Macron's France is closer to the US and China than the UK and Italy on how easy it is to make £10k a month
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,260
    edited 12:10PM
    Battlebus said:

    I just think it's adorable that someone thinks Labour hasn't lost the next election.

    FYI There are 272 Constituencies which have elected the same party in 2010, 2015, 2017, 2019 and 2024. None are Reform. So there are likely only 378 Constituencies in play. Odds on a hung Parliament or a minority Labour should be good.
    But Reform are a disruptor, in the fact that they are likely to challenge in seats that have been previously safe Labour or Tory. So I’m not sure that’s a useful indicator.

    That said, I agree if current polling holds a HP does seem like the most likely outcome to me.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 2,059

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    Sigh. Remember folks, before they get rid of that useless prat Starmer they really need to be sure his replacement is not even worse. Powell is worse.
    She is, and it’s not just her. Hopeless as she is. Across the political spectrum it is hard to see where there are real leaders. The Tories, no, the Lib Dem’s have a twat in a wetsuit and a load of bland backbencher types. Reform, not a chance. Farage is no leader, he’s a disruptor and where is the scrutiny of their politics. The Greens are all student politics.

    It’s most disheartening.
    Whilst I concur at what point do the Great British Public have to take their share of the blame for this rather than just lamenting the politicians and parties. Our preferences for low taxes, high spending and fairy tales make politics a simple shallow game and governance an unwinnable one.
    Yes.

    The public are never wrong, or so you would have politicians believe.
    But we are, and we often do, make the wrong choice.

    Whether that be in referendum or General Elections.
    We frequently make the wrong choice. And then blame anyone but ourselves when it does all go to shit.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,628

    Pro_Rata said:

    From initial snippets on X, so treat with caution, this looks like it might the gallery of the Louvre that has been targeted, with 9 pieces reportedly stolen:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Crown_Jewels?wprov=sfla1

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c62lnennzgdt
    Bound to have been Moriarty. He's got form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwoPSdtFqHg&t=179s
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,628
    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    Sigh. Remember folks, before they get rid of that useless prat Starmer they really need to be sure his replacement is not even worse. Powell is worse.
    She is, and it’s not just her. Hopeless as she is. Across the political spectrum it is hard to see where there are real leaders. The Tories, no, the Lib Dem’s have a twat in a wetsuit and a load of bland backbencher types. Reform, not a chance. Farage is no leader, he’s a disruptor and where is the scrutiny of their politics. The Greens are all student politics.

    It’s most disheartening.
    I've done more drones about this than an average night in Kyiv. There's not much more to say.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,260

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    Sigh. Remember folks, before they get rid of that useless prat Starmer they really need to be sure his replacement is not even worse. Powell is worse.
    She is, and it’s not just her. Hopeless as she is. Across the political spectrum it is hard to see where there are real leaders. The Tories, no, the Lib Dem’s have a twat in a wetsuit and a load of bland backbencher types. Reform, not a chance. Farage is no leader, he’s a disruptor and where is the scrutiny of their politics. The Greens are all student politics.

    It’s most disheartening.
    Whilst I concur at what point do the Great British Public have to take their share of the blame for this rather than just lamenting the politicians and parties. Our preferences for low taxes, high spending and fairy tales make politics a simple shallow game and governance an unwinnable one.
    Yes.

    The public are never wrong, or so you would have politicians believe.
    But we are, and we often do, make the wrong choice.

    Whether that be in referendum or General Elections.
    We frequently make the wrong choice. And then blame anyone but ourselves when it does all go to shit.
    At the same time, I can only think of one GE in my lifetime where I feel the public made the categorically “wrong” decision - 2017. And that’s only that it should have been a Tory majority - the plurality still voted for May.

    May’s campaign was deeply flawed but did try to deal with serious problems, such as solving the care issue. Instead, too many people voted for free stuff with Magic Grandpa.

    If 2017 had resulted in a modest Tory majority of 50 or so, I think we’d have been spared a lot of the psychodrama of the following 6-7 years and we might have actually got a government that sorted a few things out.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,850
    Donny's peace didn't last long.
    With this and the protest marches I'm expecting a huge putrid feline incoming.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,420

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    Sigh. Remember folks, before they get rid of that useless prat Starmer they really need to be sure his replacement is not even worse. Powell is worse.
    She is, and it’s not just her. Hopeless as she is. Across the political spectrum it is hard to see where there are real leaders. The Tories, no, the Lib Dem’s have a twat in a wetsuit and a load of bland backbencher types. Reform, not a chance. Farage is no leader, he’s a disruptor and where is the scrutiny of their politics. The Greens are all student politics.

    It’s most disheartening.
    Whilst I concur at what point do the Great British Public have to take their share of the blame for this rather than just lamenting the politicians and parties. Our preferences for low taxes, high spending and fairy tales make politics a simple shallow game and governance an unwinnable one.
    Yes.

    The public are never wrong, or so you would have politicians believe.
    But we are, and we often do, make the wrong choice.

    Whether that be in referendum or General Elections.
    We frequently make the wrong choice. And then blame anyone but ourselves when it does all go to shit.
    At the same time, I can only think of one GE in my lifetime where I feel the public made the categorically “wrong” decision - 2017. And that’s only that it should have been a Tory majority - the plurality still voted for May.

    May’s campaign was deeply flawed but did try to deal with serious problems, such as solving the care issue. Instead, too many people voted for free stuff with Magic Grandpa.

    If 2017 had resulted in a modest Tory majority of 50 or so, I think we’d have been spared a lot of the psychodrama of the following 6-7 years and we might have actually got a government that sorted a few things out.
    It is not about making the right or wrong choice at a GE but about creating an overton window for politicians that is impossible to implement.

    Scrap the triple lock? No way!
    Increase taxes? Never!
    Reduce public services? Why would we want that?
    Give us more nurses and care workers but make sure they are not immigrants and that the salaries don't go up.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,138
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    How much you need to earn, to net take home 10k a month

    🇬🇧 United Kingdom £205,000

    🇮🇹 Italy £198,000

    🇫🇷 France £172,000

    🇺🇸 United States £165,000

    🇨🇳 China £161,000

    🇦🇪 United Arab Emirates (Dubai) £120,000

    No wonder so many people are leaving the U.K. for Dubai

    https://x.com/robprogressive/status/1979438750737346981

    I've no idea if the figures are accurate or even representative. What struck me is the cluster of France, USA & China, and the higher 2-node cluster of Britain and Italy.

    It seems entirely unsourced and an exaggerated claim as far as I can see, which is the guys Twitter habit.

    And he's leaving out minor factors such as UK healthcare and other costs being from taxes as compared to take home such as say the USA, never mind currency conversions.

    I'd say it's not worth debunking time.
    There are all sorts of complications. What's the VAT or sales tax rate? What are property taxes?

    I would say that the figures are likely true, because we know a few things:
    1. We know that property tax is lower in the UK than in many other countries.
    2. We know that VAT is higher in most continental European countries than in the UK (e.g. in Italy it is 22%).
    3. I believe also that employer payroll taxes are higher in general in Continental Europe - this means that your take home pay for a nominal salary will be higher, but your take home pay as a proportion of the total cost of employment is likely to be lower, etc.
    4. We know that various changes to the British income tax system (e.g. removal of the personal allowance) while introducing cliff edges and other undesirable effects, have actually made it much more progressive, so a comparison on a relatively large net income, will make the situation in the UK look particularly bad. If you were to look at, say, net take home of £3k a month, then the UK might well not appear to have such a high tax burden.

    The only way to fairly compare the tax burden between countries is to simply look at the total amount of GDP gathered by the state in tax.
    UAE cost of living:

    Income tax 0%
    Capital gains tax 0%
    Corporation tax 7%
    VAT 5%
    SDLT 4%
    Council tax 5% of rentable value
    Healthcare: private for foreigners, £400/month for gold plan
    Education: private for foreigners, similar to UK day school fees. £15k/year
    Petrol 52p/litre
    Car registration £80/year

    Govt revenue/GDP 28%
    Govt spending/GDP 24%
    the slave labour underpinning it all, priceless
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,628
    Arrgh, Heather Knight goes for a magnificent 109, run out just as she was lifting the pace.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,260

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    Sigh. Remember folks, before they get rid of that useless prat Starmer they really need to be sure his replacement is not even worse. Powell is worse.
    She is, and it’s not just her. Hopeless as she is. Across the political spectrum it is hard to see where there are real leaders. The Tories, no, the Lib Dem’s have a twat in a wetsuit and a load of bland backbencher types. Reform, not a chance. Farage is no leader, he’s a disruptor and where is the scrutiny of their politics. The Greens are all student politics.

    It’s most disheartening.
    Whilst I concur at what point do the Great British Public have to take their share of the blame for this rather than just lamenting the politicians and parties. Our preferences for low taxes, high spending and fairy tales make politics a simple shallow game and governance an unwinnable one.
    Yes.

    The public are never wrong, or so you would have politicians believe.
    But we are, and we often do, make the wrong choice.

    Whether that be in referendum or General Elections.
    We frequently make the wrong choice. And then blame anyone but ourselves when it does all go to shit.
    At the same time, I can only think of one GE in my lifetime where I feel the public made the categorically “wrong” decision - 2017. And that’s only that it should have been a Tory majority - the plurality still voted for May.

    May’s campaign was deeply flawed but did try to deal with serious problems, such as solving the care issue. Instead, too many people voted for free stuff with Magic Grandpa.

    If 2017 had resulted in a modest Tory majority of 50 or so, I think we’d have been spared a lot of the psychodrama of the following 6-7 years and we might have actually got a government that sorted a few things out.
    It is not about making the right or wrong choice at a GE but about creating an overton window for politicians that is impossible to implement.

    Scrap the triple lock? No way!
    Increase taxes? Never!
    Reduce public services? Why would we want that?
    Give us more nurses and care workers but make sure they are not immigrants and that the salaries don't go up.
    I still firmly believe that a good political communicator can sell difficult decisions to the electorate. We just haven’t seen politicians of that calibre for some time.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,626
    dixiedean said:

    Donny's peace didn't last long.
    .

    To the delight of many, no doubt.

    He got the hostages back. All credit to him for that.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,832

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    Sigh. Remember folks, before they get rid of that useless prat Starmer they really need to be sure his replacement is not even worse. Powell is worse.
    She is, and it’s not just her. Hopeless as she is. Across the political spectrum it is hard to see where there are real leaders. The Tories, no, the Lib Dem’s have a twat in a wetsuit and a load of bland backbencher types. Reform, not a chance. Farage is no leader, he’s a disruptor and where is the scrutiny of their politics. The Greens are all student politics.

    It’s most disheartening.
    Whilst I concur at what point do the Great British Public have to take their share of the blame for this rather than just lamenting the politicians and parties. Our preferences for low taxes, high spending and fairy tales make politics a simple shallow game and governance an unwinnable one.
    Agreed, None, but the voting system doesn't help. If we had one where you feltyour vote might matter even a little bit, we might take more seriously the question of who to elect.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,850

    Battlebus said:

    I just think it's adorable that someone thinks Labour hasn't lost the next election.

    FYI There are 272 Constituencies which have elected the same party in 2010, 2015, 2017, 2019 and 2024. None are Reform. So there are likely only 378 Constituencies in play. Odds on a hung Parliament or a minority Labour should be good.
    But Reform are a disruptor, in the fact that they are likely to challenge in seats that have been previously safe Labour or Tory. So I’m not sure that’s a useful indicator.

    That said, I agree if current polling holds a HP does seem like the most likely outcome to me.
    Tory seats almost everywhere unless they can get Labour and LD votes to tactically vote Tory to beat Reform, Labour inner city and university town seats will likely remain Labour though even if Farage wins the next election
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,250

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell. Not giving the WASPI women a handout was a ‘mistake’

    Politics is infested with useless morons with over inflated opinions,of their own abilities. This whole interview with her just reeks of it. This is just one segment.

    https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status/1979203621939019927?s=61

    Sigh. Remember folks, before they get rid of that useless prat Starmer they really need to be sure his replacement is not even worse. Powell is worse.
    She is, and it’s not just her. Hopeless as she is. Across the political spectrum it is hard to see where there are real leaders. The Tories, no, the Lib Dem’s have a twat in a wetsuit and a load of bland backbencher types. Reform, not a chance. Farage is no leader, he’s a disruptor and where is the scrutiny of their politics. The Greens are all student politics.

    It’s most disheartening.
    Whilst I concur at what point do the Great British Public have to take their share of the blame for this rather than just lamenting the politicians and parties. Our preferences for low taxes, high spending and fairy tales make politics a simple shallow game and governance an unwinnable one.
    Yes.

    The public are never wrong, or so you would have politicians believe.
    But we are, and we often do, make the wrong choice.

    Whether that be in referendum or General Elections.
    We frequently make the wrong choice. And then blame anyone but ourselves when it does all go to shit.
    At the same time, I can only think of one GE in my lifetime where I feel the public made the categorically “wrong” decision - 2017. And that’s only that it should have been a Tory majority - the plurality still voted for May.

    May’s campaign was deeply flawed but did try to deal with serious problems, such as solving the care issue. Instead, too many people voted for free stuff with Magic Grandpa.

    If 2017 had resulted in a modest Tory majority of 50 or so, I think we’d have been spared a lot of the psychodrama of the following 6-7 years and we might have actually got a government that sorted a few things out.
    It is not about making the right or wrong choice at a GE but about creating an overton window for politicians that is impossible to implement.

    Scrap the triple lock? No way!
    Increase taxes? Never!
    Reduce public services? Why would we want that?
    Give us more nurses and care workers but make sure they are not immigrants and that the salaries don't go up.
    Any of them individually, fine.

    All of them at once, disastrous.

    Not impossible, as Lawson, Brown and Osborne showed. But the contrivances they used were short-term tricks with mirrors, and the mirrors were bought on HP as well.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,832
    edited 12:42PM
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Donny's peace didn't last long.
    .

    To the delight of many, no doubt.

    He got the hostages back. All credit to him for that.
    He did, Taz, and he deserves credit for that. It should however also be acknowledged that he used the same plan that Biden had used without success. The difference this time round was that he had more leverage with the Israelis. You might then generously allow that this was due to his relationship with them, or you might think it had more to do with the fact that so many world leaders were so balled off with the Israelis that they had little choice but to give way this time.

    Personally I think it's more the latter than the former but there's a wide range of reasonable views on that one.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,349
    edited 12:45PM
    Bloody snowflakes,

    Gary's Economics - Goodbye and Good Luck
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja9dTjY3uWU

    Does one video a week for a few months (and has a team behind him) and says too tirrrrrreeddd.....needs to go on holiday for months now.

    Compare to Chris Williamson, 3 videos a week, all long form interviews, week in week out, for 7 years straight....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,557
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Donny's peace didn't last long.
    .

    To the delight of many, no doubt.

    He got the hostages back. All credit to him for that.
    Although we still seem to be struggling to progress with these sausages the PM was concerned about.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,626

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Donny's peace didn't last long.
    .

    To the delight of many, no doubt.

    He got the hostages back. All credit to him for that.
    He did, Taz, and he deserves credit for that. It should however also be acknowledged that he used the same plan that Biden had used without success. The difference this time round was that he had more leverage with the Israelis. You might then generously allow that this was due to his relationship with them, or you might think it had more to do with the fact that so many world leaders were so balled off with the Israelis that they had little choice but to give way this time.

    Personally I think it's more the latter than the former but there's a wide range of reasonable views on that one.
    I think it’s the latter too but then I get the impression with the Israelis they’re a bit like Millwall FC, as we’ve being doing soccer, basically ‘no one likes us and we don’t care’

    Also one of the few good things from his first 4 years was the Abraham accords. I am not an expert on the Middle East but I do get the impression many Arab nations want normal relations with Israel and to move on past old conflicts.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,626
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Donny's peace didn't last long.
    .

    To the delight of many, no doubt.

    He got the hostages back. All credit to him for that.
    Although we still seem to be struggling to progress with these sausages the PM was concerned about.
    Do we ?

    All the living ones are back and many of the dead ones. I don’t doubt it’s more problematic dealing with the cadavers and where they are. They are coming back in dribs and drabs as they are located. I suspect thst is correct and it is not a game.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,838
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Donny's peace didn't last long.
    .

    To the delight of many, no doubt.

    He got the hostages back. All credit to him for that.
    Although we still seem to be struggling to progress with these sausages the PM was concerned about.
    Well we must remember for strict, ethical, principled reasons he is a vegetarian

    Who eats meat
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,626

    Bloody snowflakes,

    Gary's Economics - Goodbye and Good Luck
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja9dTjY3uWU

    Does one video a week for a few months (and has a team behind him) and says too tirrrrrreeddd.....needs to go on holiday for months now.

    Compare to Chris Williamson, 3 videos a week, all long form interviews, week in week out, for 7 years straight....

    Is he still selling the shopping bags while he’s away ?

Sign In or Register to comment.