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Kemi Badenoch proves again she really doesn’t understand Northern Ireland – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,176
    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,694
    edited 10:37AM

    BBC News - Police to get broader powers to restrict repeated protests
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c24rmdngrrjo

    Labour in government habit of going all authorian showing through again. It's only 2 mins since the Tories attempt to curtail JSO blocking all the roads on a daily basis was met with outrage by Labour.

    Also whatever happened to the tradition of not announcing things during party conferences. They are all at these these days shouting over on another when each other conferences are on.

    I can see the need; if you lived somewhere that these anti-Jewish shits turned out every other week, you might be more than a little peeved. They don't care anything about the fear they cause in the Jewish community, or the disruption they cause to the lives of their fellow citizens.

    It is, however, a law change that could easily be exploited by bad regimes.

    As for your last paragraph: remember how Starmer and Labour lambasted Conservative governments for announcing things outside parliament? Now they're in power, they're doing exactly the same thing.
    Your language doesn't help you or your cause, or would you like it if I called you a pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill.

    The vast majority at these protests aren't anti Jewish, they are anti genocide, my friend's mother was arrested yesterday for the first time in her life at 80, which amused her son, given she's over the last 40 years protested against inter alia South Africa/apartheid, China/Tibet, Sudan, Russia, and Yugoslavia.

    From what I gather her crime, holding a Palestine flag, which according to others, will see no further action in a few weeks time.
    My apologies for my anger on this topic.

    I would not like it if you called me a "pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill". I would also be rather confused and amused, as I'm uncertain *how* you would make that connection. Especially as I was criticising Netanyahu *before* October 3rd, and you will not find me sharing anything other than contempt for Tommeh.

    However, here's why I call those who protested last night "anti-Jewish". Three days ago, there was a terrorist attack on a synagogue. These protests have been spreading fear in the Jewish community. At a time they are grieving, at a time they are fearful, these lovely people protest and spread more fear. And, in my view, hatred.

    It's similar to what I said about Tommeh's protest: if you attended you were amplifying his voice, not yours if you disagreed with him. In this case, the attendees amplified the fear many Jews in this country feel.

    And I find that appalling.
    Can we all please refer to the artist formerly known as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon please?

    No chummy nom de plumes please. He is not our friend.
    Are you going to call Zack by his original name (David)?
    That (edit: issue of nominative etiquette) does raise the small matter of Mr Johnson ...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,822

    Number written off as long-term sick hits 5,000 a day
    This isn't welfare - it's economic and social vandalism

    https://frasernelson.substack.com/p/number-written-off-as-long-term-sick

    Labour has gone from being the party of the workers to the party of the shirkers.

    Welfarism is a drug.

    Once some people start on it they want more and more, stronger and stronger.
    Kemi could this week in her Conference speech offer to work with Labour for a cross-party consensus on actually doing something about it. They still have 3 1/2 years to deliver.

    Labour would probably say no. In which case, "they aren't serous about getting the country's finances under control". They'll just do the usual Labour thing when in a tight spot - raid other people's money.

    Of course, Starmer could take her up on it. In which case, he then invites Farage to join in too. Farage would most likely decline - otherwise he's losing his USP of "none of the above". In which case, both Labour and the Tories can (rightly) claim that Reform has no interest in, er, reform.
    She's already done that.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/kemi-badenoch-starmer-labour-welfare-cuts-benefits-b2776394.html
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,822

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,413

    Carnyx said:

    On topic, does anyone understand Northern Ireland?

    Some of us understand it less badly than others. As the collision of London politicians of all colours with reality has shown over the last few decades, and especially over Brexit. Indeed, we only have to look to Ms Badenoch for an example.
    But, if you understood it well as you claim, you'd acknowledge one community in Northern Ireland was very supportive of Brexit.
    Did this NI gaffe not happen a couple of days ago? Old news. I seem to remember it being pretty close over there.
    It wasn't as close as the UK.
    NI 44% leave 56% remain
    UK 52% leave 48% remain
    Kemi was wrong in her statement about NI. There's no denying it.
    Does it matter? I doubt it.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,239
    bobbob said:

    I take the point, and these things need to be dealt with with sensitivity (ha!) and nuance (again, ha!) but we cannot preserve our laws, treaties and international obligations in aspic for eternity, if it is felt that those arrangements need to change.

    One of the things that has led to this crisis of confidence in the West is the idea that there are untouchable policies, institutions, truths, ways of doing things that the electorate cannot disturb.

    100% agreed we need to follow trump in moving away from the globalist agenda including tariffs and nato to make sure we are putting Britain first
    How is making Britain poorer putting Britain first?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,748
    Carnyx said:

    BBC News - Police to get broader powers to restrict repeated protests
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c24rmdngrrjo

    Labour in government habit of going all authorian showing through again. It's only 2 mins since the Tories attempt to curtail JSO blocking all the roads on a daily basis was met with outrage by Labour.

    Also whatever happened to the tradition of not announcing things during party conferences. They are all at these these days shouting over on another when each other conferences are on.

    I can see the need; if you lived somewhere that these anti-Jewish shits turned out every other week, you might be more than a little peeved. They don't care anything about the fear they cause in the Jewish community, or the disruption they cause to the lives of their fellow citizens.

    It is, however, a law change that could easily be exploited by bad regimes.

    As for your last paragraph: remember how Starmer and Labour lambasted Conservative governments for announcing things outside parliament? Now they're in power, they're doing exactly the same thing.
    Your language doesn't help you or your cause, or would you like it if I called you a pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill.

    The vast majority at these protests aren't anti Jewish, they are anti genocide, my friend's mother was arrested yesterday for the first time in her life at 80, which amused her son, given she's over the last 40 years protested against inter alia South Africa/apartheid, China/Tibet, Sudan, Russia, and Yugoslavia.

    From what I gather her crime, holding a Palestine flag, which according to others, will see no further action in a few weeks time.
    My apologies for my anger on this topic.

    I would not like it if you called me a "pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill". I would also be rather confused and amused, as I'm uncertain *how* you would make that connection. Especially as I was criticising Netanyahu *before* October 3rd, and you will not find me sharing anything other than contempt for Tommeh.

    However, here's why I call those who protested last night "anti-Jewish". Three days ago, there was a terrorist attack on a synagogue. These protests have been spreading fear in the Jewish community. At a time they are grieving, at a time they are fearful, these lovely people protest and spread more fear. And, in my view, hatred.

    It's similar to what I said about Tommeh's protest: if you attended you were amplifying his voice, not yours if you disagreed with him. In this case, the attendees amplified the fear many Jews in this country feel.

    And I find that appalling.
    Can we all please refer to the artist formerly known as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon please?

    No chummy nom de plumes please. He is not our friend.
    Are you going to call Zack by his original name (David)?
    That does raise the small matter of Mr Johnson ...
    I believe it is his middle name though (like James Gordon Brown)?

    Zack was the name David chose (to avoid confusion with his stepfather David)

    I bet his Mum still calls him David (or probably now Day...zack)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,694

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Er, in all seriousness, don't the Tories differ on other matters as well?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,176
    edited 10:42AM

    It seems Starmer didn't check with his rich tea munching lady of a certain age before using her as the centrepiece of his speech.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15157691/Starmer-Retiree-conference-speech-meeting-racist.html

    Her recollections vary. And she's voting Reform.

    You can absolutely believe Brittas getting in a huff and calling her a racist, despite her being hand picked to be a soft soap PR opportunity back in the day.
    It is an odd invention about the rich tea biscuits too. Though to be honest, I don't think her recollection is 100% accurate either - it seems the photo album thing she denies must be sort of true, though she perhaps showed him the photos or something similar after he called her racist rather than as a pre-emptive defence.

    The whole tale is fairly extraordinary. Why does forensic Sir Gobshite issue gaffe after gaffe?
    I always find this the strangest thing, he gets in such a mess by either trying to be all lawyerly about it and doing so in a way that opens more questions, or he totally gaffes. It is not what I would expect from a top class lawyer at all. The 27 goes he had at explaining his free upgraded football tickets being a good example.

    Blair on the other hand was a master at answering thing in such a way you that most people believed he said one thing, but still left the door open for a different interpretation, thus avoiding the tricky question but without boxing himself in.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,652

    It seems Starmer didn't check with his rich tea munching lady of a certain age before using her as the centrepiece of his speech.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15157691/Starmer-Retiree-conference-speech-meeting-racist.html

    Her recollections vary. And she's voting Reform.

    I think his memory's probably at fault here. We're talking about something that happened ten years ago. She is likely to remember quite well when a politician comes into her house for fifteen minutes - because it is so unusual. Whilst Starmer probably went into hundreds of houses over he last ten years, and he's simply mixed up two separate visits to different people. That's the way memory works.

    A very human failing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,694

    Carnyx said:

    BBC News - Police to get broader powers to restrict repeated protests
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c24rmdngrrjo

    Labour in government habit of going all authorian showing through again. It's only 2 mins since the Tories attempt to curtail JSO blocking all the roads on a daily basis was met with outrage by Labour.

    Also whatever happened to the tradition of not announcing things during party conferences. They are all at these these days shouting over on another when each other conferences are on.

    I can see the need; if you lived somewhere that these anti-Jewish shits turned out every other week, you might be more than a little peeved. They don't care anything about the fear they cause in the Jewish community, or the disruption they cause to the lives of their fellow citizens.

    It is, however, a law change that could easily be exploited by bad regimes.

    As for your last paragraph: remember how Starmer and Labour lambasted Conservative governments for announcing things outside parliament? Now they're in power, they're doing exactly the same thing.
    Your language doesn't help you or your cause, or would you like it if I called you a pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill.

    The vast majority at these protests aren't anti Jewish, they are anti genocide, my friend's mother was arrested yesterday for the first time in her life at 80, which amused her son, given she's over the last 40 years protested against inter alia South Africa/apartheid, China/Tibet, Sudan, Russia, and Yugoslavia.

    From what I gather her crime, holding a Palestine flag, which according to others, will see no further action in a few weeks time.
    My apologies for my anger on this topic.

    I would not like it if you called me a "pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill". I would also be rather confused and amused, as I'm uncertain *how* you would make that connection. Especially as I was criticising Netanyahu *before* October 3rd, and you will not find me sharing anything other than contempt for Tommeh.

    However, here's why I call those who protested last night "anti-Jewish". Three days ago, there was a terrorist attack on a synagogue. These protests have been spreading fear in the Jewish community. At a time they are grieving, at a time they are fearful, these lovely people protest and spread more fear. And, in my view, hatred.

    It's similar to what I said about Tommeh's protest: if you attended you were amplifying his voice, not yours if you disagreed with him. In this case, the attendees amplified the fear many Jews in this country feel.

    And I find that appalling.
    Can we all please refer to the artist formerly known as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon please?

    No chummy nom de plumes please. He is not our friend.
    Are you going to call Zack by his original name (David)?
    That does raise the small matter of Mr Johnson ...
    I believe it is his middle name though (like James Gordon Brown)?

    Zack was the name David chose (to avoid confusion with his stepfather David)

    I bet his Mum still calls him David (or probably now Day...zack)
    Simpler to call them Mr Polanski and Mr Johnson, though.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,425

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Unify = reduce surely? Brave when your party has recently lost a record breaking number of MPs.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,822
    Barnesian said:

    Carnyx said:

    On topic, does anyone understand Northern Ireland?

    Some of us understand it less badly than others. As the collision of London politicians of all colours with reality has shown over the last few decades, and especially over Brexit. Indeed, we only have to look to Ms Badenoch for an example.
    But, if you understood it well as you claim, you'd acknowledge one community in Northern Ireland was very supportive of Brexit.
    Did this NI gaffe not happen a couple of days ago? Old news. I seem to remember it being pretty close over there.
    It wasn't as close as the UK.
    NI 44% leave 56% remain
    UK 52% leave 48% remain
    Kemi was wrong in her statement about NI. There's no denying it.
    Does it matter? I doubt it.
    I haven't denied it.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,665
    O/T

    If a senior UK politician hasn't a clue about Northern Ireland is the issue with the politician or should the province be ejected to save on the cash* transfers that go there. Ditto all the other favourites.

    *Almost 30% of jobs in NI are public sector.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,822
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    BBC News - Police to get broader powers to restrict repeated protests
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c24rmdngrrjo

    Labour in government habit of going all authorian showing through again. It's only 2 mins since the Tories attempt to curtail JSO blocking all the roads on a daily basis was met with outrage by Labour.

    Also whatever happened to the tradition of not announcing things during party conferences. They are all at these these days shouting over on another when each other conferences are on.

    I can see the need; if you lived somewhere that these anti-Jewish shits turned out every other week, you might be more than a little peeved. They don't care anything about the fear they cause in the Jewish community, or the disruption they cause to the lives of their fellow citizens.

    It is, however, a law change that could easily be exploited by bad regimes.

    As for your last paragraph: remember how Starmer and Labour lambasted Conservative governments for announcing things outside parliament? Now they're in power, they're doing exactly the same thing.
    Your language doesn't help you or your cause, or would you like it if I called you a pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill.

    The vast majority at these protests aren't anti Jewish, they are anti genocide, my friend's mother was arrested yesterday for the first time in her life at 80, which amused her son, given she's over the last 40 years protested against inter alia South Africa/apartheid, China/Tibet, Sudan, Russia, and Yugoslavia.

    From what I gather her crime, holding a Palestine flag, which according to others, will see no further action in a few weeks time.
    My apologies for my anger on this topic.

    I would not like it if you called me a "pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill". I would also be rather confused and amused, as I'm uncertain *how* you would make that connection. Especially as I was criticising Netanyahu *before* October 3rd, and you will not find me sharing anything other than contempt for Tommeh.

    However, here's why I call those who protested last night "anti-Jewish". Three days ago, there was a terrorist attack on a synagogue. These protests have been spreading fear in the Jewish community. At a time they are grieving, at a time they are fearful, these lovely people protest and spread more fear. And, in my view, hatred.

    It's similar to what I said about Tommeh's protest: if you attended you were amplifying his voice, not yours if you disagreed with him. In this case, the attendees amplified the fear many Jews in this country feel.

    And I find that appalling.
    Can we all please refer to the artist formerly known as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon please?

    No chummy nom de plumes please. He is not our friend.
    Are you going to call Zack by his original name (David)?
    That does raise the small matter of Mr Johnson ...
    I believe it is his middle name though (like James Gordon Brown)?

    Zack was the name David chose (to avoid confusion with his stepfather David)

    I bet his Mum still calls him David (or probably now Day...zack)
    Simpler to call them Mr Polanski and Mr Johnson, though.
    Or Mr. Paulden in Polanski's case.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,133
    edited 10:44AM
    Carnyx said:

    Feckloads of NFL fans at Liverpool Street. I'm toying with the idea of banning NFL matches in the UK as an FU to Trump :lol:

    They have matches in the UK? What's wrong with being rugger buggers?
    What's wrong with playing FOOTball with your FEET??
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,239

    Civil Service flies in hundreds of foreign staff despite vow to cut migration
    Contrary to Labour pledge to bring situation under control, hordes of overseas workers still in Government employ
    ...
    Whitehall departments have sponsored 400 visas for foreign staff and paid £626,000 in fees to allow them to work in the UK in the last year.

    The staff, who must earn more than £41,700 a year or the “going rate” for their role, have been employed in the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), Department for Transport (DfT), Department for Business and Trade (DBT) and the Cabinet Office.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/10/04/civil-service-flies-hundreds-foreign-staff-migration/ (£££)

    As an aside, ‘hordes of overseas workers still in Government employ’ has a Yoda-like rhythm.

    This is a clear-cut example of people who are merely using "we want to control immigration" as a euphemism for "we want zero immigration".
    A minimum of £41,700 is a control.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,694

    Carnyx said:

    Feckloads of NFL fans at Liverpool Street. I'm toying with the idea of banning NFL matches in the UK as an FU to Trump :lol:

    They have matches in the UK? What's wrong with being rugger buggers?
    What's wrong with playing FOOTball with your FEET??
    I'm (partly) from the Borders ...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,822
    Carnyx said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Er, in all seriousness, don't the Tories differ on other matters as well?
    Of course, but this is a great proxy issue for everything. A hardcore lib dem will not commit to leaving the ECHR.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,744
    edited 10:47AM

    BBC News - Police to get broader powers to restrict repeated protests
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c24rmdngrrjo

    Labour in government habit of going all authorian showing through again. It's only 2 mins since the Tories attempt to curtail JSO blocking all the roads on a daily basis was met with outrage by Labour.

    Also whatever happened to the tradition of not announcing things during party conferences. They are all at these these days shouting over on another when each other conferences are on.

    I can see the need; if you lived somewhere that these anti-Jewish shits turned out every other week, you might be more than a little peeved. They don't care anything about the fear they cause in the Jewish community, or the disruption they cause to the lives of their fellow citizens.

    It is, however, a law change that could easily be exploited by bad regimes.

    As for your last paragraph: remember how Starmer and Labour lambasted Conservative governments for announcing things outside parliament? Now they're in power, they're doing exactly the same thing.
    Your language doesn't help you or your cause, or would you like it if I called you a pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill.

    The vast majority at these protests aren't anti Jewish, they are anti genocide, my friend's mother was arrested yesterday for the first time in her life at 80, which amused her son, given she's over the last 40 years protested against inter alia South Africa/apartheid, China/Tibet, Sudan, Russia, and Yugoslavia.

    From what I gather her crime, holding a Palestine flag, which according to others, will see no further action in a few weeks time.
    My apologies for my anger on this topic.

    I would not like it if you called me a "pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill". I would also be rather confused and amused, as I'm uncertain *how* you would make that connection. Especially as I was criticising Netanyahu *before* October 3rd, and you will not find me sharing anything other than contempt for Tommeh.

    However, here's why I call those who protested last night "anti-Jewish". Three days ago, there was a terrorist attack on a synagogue. These protests have been spreading fear in the Jewish community. At a time they are grieving, at a time they are fearful, these lovely people protest and spread more fear. And, in my view, hatred.

    It's similar to what I said about Tommeh's protest: if you attended you were amplifying his voice, not yours if you disagreed with him. In this case, the attendees amplified the fear many Jews in this country feel.

    And I find that appalling.
    Your problem is that you are lumping the vast majority of people peacefully protesting with an extremist fringe.

    The majority are seeing genocide take place in front of their eyes and they want to stop that happening.

    Israel is committing said crime, their government has invited Tommy Robinson as an ally to Israel.

    I work for an identifiably Jewish bank, we get regular updates from the police/intelligence services/government about protests.

    so for example I knew at the start of last week that there was a pro Palestine march scheduled in Piccadilly on Thursday.

    I also know a lot of these protests are planned well in advance and the organisers do not give the police advance notice so when you said the protests on Thursday night were scheduled after the attack was wrong.

    The biggest threat at work is from the far right (who think we fund antifa and Muslim immigrants) and the hard left, not pro Palestinian protesters.

    I would like to meet these far right activists wanting to know why a Jewish firm wants more Muslims in the UK.
    Someone on a previous thread pointed out that some protests on Thursday (not the Manchester one) were *not* planned. I think one was in Glasgow?

    "Your problem is that you are lumping the vast majority of people peacefully protesting with an extremist fringe."

    And your problem (and theirs...) is that they are not chucking out the extremist fringe, but acting in concert with them.

    Many Jews in this country are living in fear. And protesting this weekend, so soon after a terrorist attack on the Jewish community, amplifies that fear. Still protesting on Thursday is unbelievably crass.

    Hopefully, you will know that I have zero care for the far right. I detest them, as I have made clear on many occasions.
    I'm strongly in favour of the right to protest, and deeply sceptical of the moves to curtail it.

    But I also think the well meaning majority of protesters would have made a much stronger point for their cause, and publicly distanced themselves from the malign minority, by postponing this weekend's protests.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,694

    Carnyx said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Er, in all seriousness, don't the Tories differ on other matters as well?
    Of course, but this is a great proxy issue for everything. A hardcore lib dem will not commit to leaving the ECHR.
    Hmm. Though mildly surprised at the notion that there are hardcore LDs in the Tories, even after Mr Johnson's cull.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,227
    Battlebus said:

    O/T

    If a senior UK politician hasn't a clue about Northern Ireland is the issue with the politician or should the province be ejected to save on the cash* transfers that go there. Ditto all the other favourites.

    *Almost 30% of jobs in NI are public sector.

    NI should stay part of the UK as long as a majority of its citizens want it to.
    But after that, I don't think I'm alone in being very happy for Great Britain to wash its hands of it as soon as it possibly can.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,748

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    BBC News - Police to get broader powers to restrict repeated protests
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c24rmdngrrjo

    Labour in government habit of going all authorian showing through again. It's only 2 mins since the Tories attempt to curtail JSO blocking all the roads on a daily basis was met with outrage by Labour.

    Also whatever happened to the tradition of not announcing things during party conferences. They are all at these these days shouting over on another when each other conferences are on.

    I can see the need; if you lived somewhere that these anti-Jewish shits turned out every other week, you might be more than a little peeved. They don't care anything about the fear they cause in the Jewish community, or the disruption they cause to the lives of their fellow citizens.

    It is, however, a law change that could easily be exploited by bad regimes.

    As for your last paragraph: remember how Starmer and Labour lambasted Conservative governments for announcing things outside parliament? Now they're in power, they're doing exactly the same thing.
    Your language doesn't help you or your cause, or would you like it if I called you a pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill.

    The vast majority at these protests aren't anti Jewish, they are anti genocide, my friend's mother was arrested yesterday for the first time in her life at 80, which amused her son, given she's over the last 40 years protested against inter alia South Africa/apartheid, China/Tibet, Sudan, Russia, and Yugoslavia.

    From what I gather her crime, holding a Palestine flag, which according to others, will see no further action in a few weeks time.
    My apologies for my anger on this topic.

    I would not like it if you called me a "pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill". I would also be rather confused and amused, as I'm uncertain *how* you would make that connection. Especially as I was criticising Netanyahu *before* October 3rd, and you will not find me sharing anything other than contempt for Tommeh.

    However, here's why I call those who protested last night "anti-Jewish". Three days ago, there was a terrorist attack on a synagogue. These protests have been spreading fear in the Jewish community. At a time they are grieving, at a time they are fearful, these lovely people protest and spread more fear. And, in my view, hatred.

    It's similar to what I said about Tommeh's protest: if you attended you were amplifying his voice, not yours if you disagreed with him. In this case, the attendees amplified the fear many Jews in this country feel.

    And I find that appalling.
    Can we all please refer to the artist formerly known as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon please?

    No chummy nom de plumes please. He is not our friend.
    Are you going to call Zack by his original name (David)?
    That does raise the small matter of Mr Johnson ...
    I believe it is his middle name though (like James Gordon Brown)?

    Zack was the name David chose (to avoid confusion with his stepfather David)

    I bet his Mum still calls him David (or probably now Day...zack)
    Simpler to call them Mr Polanski and Mr Johnson, though.
    Or Mr. Paulden in Polanski's case.
    I wonder if Dave Paulden could have won the Green leadership

    Zack Polanski does just sound cooler
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,744

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    Crass.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,826
    edited 10:50AM

    The irony here is going to kill me.


    That is genius levels of thickness. Tommy's chaps all over.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,694
    edited 10:51AM

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    BBC News - Police to get broader powers to restrict repeated protests
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c24rmdngrrjo

    Labour in government habit of going all authorian showing through again. It's only 2 mins since the Tories attempt to curtail JSO blocking all the roads on a daily basis was met with outrage by Labour.

    Also whatever happened to the tradition of not announcing things during party conferences. They are all at these these days shouting over on another when each other conferences are on.

    I can see the need; if you lived somewhere that these anti-Jewish shits turned out every other week, you might be more than a little peeved. They don't care anything about the fear they cause in the Jewish community, or the disruption they cause to the lives of their fellow citizens.

    It is, however, a law change that could easily be exploited by bad regimes.

    As for your last paragraph: remember how Starmer and Labour lambasted Conservative governments for announcing things outside parliament? Now they're in power, they're doing exactly the same thing.
    Your language doesn't help you or your cause, or would you like it if I called you a pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill.

    The vast majority at these protests aren't anti Jewish, they are anti genocide, my friend's mother was arrested yesterday for the first time in her life at 80, which amused her son, given she's over the last 40 years protested against inter alia South Africa/apartheid, China/Tibet, Sudan, Russia, and Yugoslavia.

    From what I gather her crime, holding a Palestine flag, which according to others, will see no further action in a few weeks time.
    My apologies for my anger on this topic.

    I would not like it if you called me a "pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill". I would also be rather confused and amused, as I'm uncertain *how* you would make that connection. Especially as I was criticising Netanyahu *before* October 3rd, and you will not find me sharing anything other than contempt for Tommeh.

    However, here's why I call those who protested last night "anti-Jewish". Three days ago, there was a terrorist attack on a synagogue. These protests have been spreading fear in the Jewish community. At a time they are grieving, at a time they are fearful, these lovely people protest and spread more fear. And, in my view, hatred.

    It's similar to what I said about Tommeh's protest: if you attended you were amplifying his voice, not yours if you disagreed with him. In this case, the attendees amplified the fear many Jews in this country feel.

    And I find that appalling.
    Can we all please refer to the artist formerly known as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon please?

    No chummy nom de plumes please. He is not our friend.
    Are you going to call Zack by his original name (David)?
    That does raise the small matter of Mr Johnson ...
    I believe it is his middle name though (like James Gordon Brown)?

    Zack was the name David chose (to avoid confusion with his stepfather David)

    I bet his Mum still calls him David (or probably now Day...zack)
    Simpler to call them Mr Polanski and Mr Johnson, though.
    Or Mr. Paulden in Polanski's case.
    I wonder if Dave Paulden could have won the Green leadership

    Zack Polanski does just sound cooler
    On checking, Polanski *is* his original familial name, pre-Anglicisation. Edit: Wiki says an earlier generation changed the name on immigration to evade antisemitism.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,744
    Carnyx said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Er, in all seriousness, don't the Tories differ on other matters as well?
    I vaguely recall they used to be a fairly broad church.

    RIP
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,133

    Carnyx said:

    BBC News - Police to get broader powers to restrict repeated protests
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c24rmdngrrjo

    Labour in government habit of going all authorian showing through again. It's only 2 mins since the Tories attempt to curtail JSO blocking all the roads on a daily basis was met with outrage by Labour.

    Also whatever happened to the tradition of not announcing things during party conferences. They are all at these these days shouting over on another when each other conferences are on.

    I can see the need; if you lived somewhere that these anti-Jewish shits turned out every other week, you might be more than a little peeved. They don't care anything about the fear they cause in the Jewish community, or the disruption they cause to the lives of their fellow citizens.

    It is, however, a law change that could easily be exploited by bad regimes.

    As for your last paragraph: remember how Starmer and Labour lambasted Conservative governments for announcing things outside parliament? Now they're in power, they're doing exactly the same thing.
    Your language doesn't help you or your cause, or would you like it if I called you a pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill.

    The vast majority at these protests aren't anti Jewish, they are anti genocide, my friend's mother was arrested yesterday for the first time in her life at 80, which amused her son, given she's over the last 40 years protested against inter alia South Africa/apartheid, China/Tibet, Sudan, Russia, and Yugoslavia.

    From what I gather her crime, holding a Palestine flag, which according to others, will see no further action in a few weeks time.
    My apologies for my anger on this topic.

    I would not like it if you called me a "pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill". I would also be rather confused and amused, as I'm uncertain *how* you would make that connection. Especially as I was criticising Netanyahu *before* October 3rd, and you will not find me sharing anything other than contempt for Tommeh.

    However, here's why I call those who protested last night "anti-Jewish". Three days ago, there was a terrorist attack on a synagogue. These protests have been spreading fear in the Jewish community. At a time they are grieving, at a time they are fearful, these lovely people protest and spread more fear. And, in my view, hatred.

    It's similar to what I said about Tommeh's protest: if you attended you were amplifying his voice, not yours if you disagreed with him. In this case, the attendees amplified the fear many Jews in this country feel.

    And I find that appalling.
    Can we all please refer to the artist formerly known as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon please?

    No chummy nom de plumes please. He is not our friend.
    Are you going to call Zack by his original name (David)?
    That does raise the small matter of Mr Johnson ...
    I believe it is his middle name though (like James Gordon Brown)?

    Zack was the name David chose (to avoid confusion with his stepfather David)

    I bet his Mum still calls him David (or probably now Day...zack)
    King Edward VIII or King David?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,748
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    BBC News - Police to get broader powers to restrict repeated protests
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c24rmdngrrjo

    Labour in government habit of going all authorian showing through again. It's only 2 mins since the Tories attempt to curtail JSO blocking all the roads on a daily basis was met with outrage by Labour.

    Also whatever happened to the tradition of not announcing things during party conferences. They are all at these these days shouting over on another when each other conferences are on.

    I can see the need; if you lived somewhere that these anti-Jewish shits turned out every other week, you might be more than a little peeved. They don't care anything about the fear they cause in the Jewish community, or the disruption they cause to the lives of their fellow citizens.

    It is, however, a law change that could easily be exploited by bad regimes.

    As for your last paragraph: remember how Starmer and Labour lambasted Conservative governments for announcing things outside parliament? Now they're in power, they're doing exactly the same thing.
    Your language doesn't help you or your cause, or would you like it if I called you a pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill.

    The vast majority at these protests aren't anti Jewish, they are anti genocide, my friend's mother was arrested yesterday for the first time in her life at 80, which amused her son, given she's over the last 40 years protested against inter alia South Africa/apartheid, China/Tibet, Sudan, Russia, and Yugoslavia.

    From what I gather her crime, holding a Palestine flag, which according to others, will see no further action in a few weeks time.
    My apologies for my anger on this topic.

    I would not like it if you called me a "pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill". I would also be rather confused and amused, as I'm uncertain *how* you would make that connection. Especially as I was criticising Netanyahu *before* October 3rd, and you will not find me sharing anything other than contempt for Tommeh.

    However, here's why I call those who protested last night "anti-Jewish". Three days ago, there was a terrorist attack on a synagogue. These protests have been spreading fear in the Jewish community. At a time they are grieving, at a time they are fearful, these lovely people protest and spread more fear. And, in my view, hatred.

    It's similar to what I said about Tommeh's protest: if you attended you were amplifying his voice, not yours if you disagreed with him. In this case, the attendees amplified the fear many Jews in this country feel.

    And I find that appalling.
    Can we all please refer to the artist formerly known as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon please?

    No chummy nom de plumes please. He is not our friend.
    Are you going to call Zack by his original name (David)?
    That does raise the small matter of Mr Johnson ...
    I believe it is his middle name though (like James Gordon Brown)?

    Zack was the name David chose (to avoid confusion with his stepfather David)

    I bet his Mum still calls him David (or probably now Day...zack)
    Simpler to call them Mr Polanski and Mr Johnson, though.
    Or Mr. Paulden in Polanski's case.
    I wonder if Dave Paulden could have won the Green leadership

    Zack Polanski does just sound cooler
    On checking, Polanski *is* his original familial name, pre-Anglicisation. Edit: Wiki says an earlier generation changed the name on immigration to evade antisemitism.
    That was why I didn't bring up the surname change
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,202

    It seems Starmer didn't check with his rich tea munching lady of a certain age before using her as the centrepiece of his speech.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15157691/Starmer-Retiree-conference-speech-meeting-racist.html

    Her recollections vary. And she's voting Reform.

    I think his memory's probably at fault here. We're talking about something that happened ten years ago. She is likely to remember quite well when a politician comes into her house for fifteen minutes - because it is so unusual. Whilst Starmer probably went into hundreds of houses over he last ten years, and he's simply mixed up two separate visits to different people. That's the way memory works.

    A very human failing.
    After ten years he's got a much better memory than me and what a stupid story..... The accounts over ten years are about as identical as anyone could expect. Even a Mail journalist might forget whether or not he had a rich tea biscuit ten years ago.

    ........If we want British society to improve we should ban the Mail. It's pernicious. Just an unpleasant rag....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,133

    The irony here is going to kill me.


    "Nazis! I hate these guys!"
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,822
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Er, in all seriousness, don't the Tories differ on other matters as well?
    Of course, but this is a great proxy issue for everything. A hardcore lib dem will not commit to leaving the ECHR.
    Hmm. Though mildly surprised at the notion that there are hardcore LDs in the Tories, even after Mr Johnson's cull.
    You are? You haven't really been keeping up then.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,279
    Nigelb said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    Crass.
    That SE/SW Orange wall 'aint going anywhere if she carries on like this.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,298
    Carnyx said:

    Number written off as long-term sick hits 5,000 a day
    This isn't welfare - it's economic and social vandalism

    https://frasernelson.substack.com/p/number-written-off-as-long-term-sick

    Solution is simple: a maximum of twelve months, unless you are permanently incapacitated- the test for which should be very high.

    A "bad back", "anxiety" or "depression" isn't an excuse for the State to pay for you never to work again.
    As always, a denial that back health and mental health aren't real problems.
    Carnyx said:

    Number written off as long-term sick hits 5,000 a day
    This isn't welfare - it's economic and social vandalism

    https://frasernelson.substack.com/p/number-written-off-as-long-term-sick

    Solution is simple: a maximum of twelve months, unless you are permanently incapacitated- the test for which should be very high.

    A "bad back", "anxiety" or "depression" isn't an excuse for the State to pay for you never to work again.
    As always, a denial that back health and mental health aren't real problems.
    No, many of us will struggle with those during our lives.

    It isn't an excuse to live on welfare for the rest of your life.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,298

    Number written off as long-term sick hits 5,000 a day
    This isn't welfare - it's economic and social vandalism

    https://frasernelson.substack.com/p/number-written-off-as-long-term-sick

    Solution is simple: a maximum of twelve months, unless you are permanently incapacitated- the test for which should be very high.

    A "bad back", "anxiety" or "depression" isn't an excuse for the State to pay for you never to work again.
    If they wanted to do something about it why did they come for PIP? That's a disability benefit and not too do directly with capacity for work. Why not foresee that backbench Lab would not stand for cutting money from the disabled? They might have stood for severe tightening of capacity to work. Instead the capacity to work is now to be linked to getting a PIP award iirc.
    No matter what welfare reform is undertaken there will always be plenty of hard luck stories.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,039

    Number written off as long-term sick hits 5,000 a day
    This isn't welfare - it's economic and social vandalism

    https://frasernelson.substack.com/p/number-written-off-as-long-term-sick

    Labour has gone from being the party of the workers to the party of the shirkers.

    Welfarism is a drug.

    Once some people start on it they want more and more, stronger and stronger.
    Kemi could this week in her Conference speech offer to work with Labour for a cross-party consensus on actually doing something about it. They still have 3 1/2 years to deliver.

    Labour would probably say no. In which case, "they aren't serous about getting the country's finances under control". They'll just do the usual Labour thing when in a tight spot - raid other people's money.

    Of course, Starmer could take her up on it. In which case, he then invites Farage to join in too. Farage would most likely decline - otherwise he's losing his USP of "none of the above". In which case, both Labour and the Tories can (rightly) claim that Reform has no interest in, er, reform.
    She's already done that.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/kemi-badenoch-starmer-labour-welfare-cuts-benefits-b2776394.html
    Well if I didn't know about it, the messaging leaves something to be desired.

    In which case she absolutely should make it the centrepiece of her Conference speech. For a wider audience than the Independent...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,298

    Carnyx said:

    On topic, does anyone understand Northern Ireland?

    Some of us understand it less badly than others. As the collision of London politicians of all colours with reality has shown over the last few decades, and especially over Brexit. Indeed, we only have to look to Ms Badenoch for an example.
    But, if you understood it well as you claim, you'd acknowledge one community in Northern Ireland was very supportive of Brexit.
    NI Brexit vote

    Remain 56%
    Leave 44%

    😇
    Yes, we all know that Sunil - and the Unionist community voted clearly for Brexit in NI.

    That is why it's complicated.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,440
    edited 11:00AM

    Carnyx said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Er, in all seriousness, don't the Tories differ on other matters as well?
    Of course, but this is a great proxy issue for everything. A hardcore lib dem will not commit to leaving the ECHR.
    And so the Tory party moves from a large base of differing views but with a common aim to a limited set of people.

    Bozo removed all the people who thought the EU wasn’t awful, now Kemi is removing anyone who thinks simply fixes don’t work.

    She’s shifting the party even further into irrelevance - while targeting Reform voters that will never vote Tory anyway
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,744
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Er, in all seriousness, don't the Tories differ on other matters as well?
    Of course, but this is a great proxy issue for everything. A hardcore lib dem will not commit to leaving the ECHR.
    Hmm. Though mildly surprised at the notion that there are hardcore LDs in the Tories, even after Mr Johnson's cull.
    It's the paranoid style of politics.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,298
    Battlebus said:

    O/T

    If a senior UK politician hasn't a clue about Northern Ireland is the issue with the politician or should the province be ejected to save on the cash* transfers that go there. Ditto all the other favourites.

    *Almost 30% of jobs in NI are public sector.

    Most have never even been.

    I've only been once. And that was for a day business trip to our Belfast office.

    [*I have several NI friends who live in London and the Home Counties, but that's not quite the same thing.]
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,822
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Er, in all seriousness, don't the Tories differ on other matters as well?
    I vaguely recall they used to be a fairly broad church.

    RIP
    The 'broad church' was and is only ever invoked when it suited the wet contingent. 'Get rid of the loons' was a more common cry when the boot was on the other foot. It was a great wheeze to eliminate the right from the PCP (though obviously still depend on right-leaning voters), and by extension from parliament. Such a great wheeze it has created Reform.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,652
    Roger said:

    It seems Starmer didn't check with his rich tea munching lady of a certain age before using her as the centrepiece of his speech.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15157691/Starmer-Retiree-conference-speech-meeting-racist.html

    Her recollections vary. And she's voting Reform.

    I think his memory's probably at fault here. We're talking about something that happened ten years ago. She is likely to remember quite well when a politician comes into her house for fifteen minutes - because it is so unusual. Whilst Starmer probably went into hundreds of houses over he last ten years, and he's simply mixed up two separate visits to different people. That's the way memory works.

    A very human failing.
    After ten years he's got a much better memory than me and what a stupid story..... The accounts over ten years are about as identical as anyone could expect. Even a Mail journalist might forget whether or not he had a rich tea biscuit ten years ago.

    (Snip)
    I don't disagree.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,176
    edited 11:02AM
    Free and fair elections, just you can't pick anybody who will have any power to do anything.

    Syria will hold its first parliamentary elections on Sunday since the fall of Bashar al-Assad, amid concerns over inclusivity and successive delays.

    There will be no direct vote for the People's Assembly, which will be responsible for legislation during a transitional period. Instead, "electoral colleges" will select representatives for two-thirds of the 210 seats. Interim President Ahmed al-Sharaa will appoint the rest.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czrpx1vvr45o
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,694

    Carnyx said:

    Number written off as long-term sick hits 5,000 a day
    This isn't welfare - it's economic and social vandalism

    https://frasernelson.substack.com/p/number-written-off-as-long-term-sick

    Solution is simple: a maximum of twelve months, unless you are permanently incapacitated- the test for which should be very high.

    A "bad back", "anxiety" or "depression" isn't an excuse for the State to pay for you never to work again.
    As always, a denial that back health and mental health aren't real problems.
    Carnyx said:

    Number written off as long-term sick hits 5,000 a day
    This isn't welfare - it's economic and social vandalism

    https://frasernelson.substack.com/p/number-written-off-as-long-term-sick

    Solution is simple: a maximum of twelve months, unless you are permanently incapacitated- the test for which should be very high.

    A "bad back", "anxiety" or "depression" isn't an excuse for the State to pay for you never to work again.
    As always, a denial that back health and mental health aren't real problems.
    No, many of us will struggle with those during our lives.

    It isn't an excuse to live on welfare for the rest of your life.
    But some people are crippled for significant periods, not necessarily covered by sick pay from work.

    It's a very difficult issue but arguing that anyone claiming for more than 366 days should be tested and regarded as if claiming for life ("permanently") doesn't match reality.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,133

    Carnyx said:

    On topic, does anyone understand Northern Ireland?

    Some of us understand it less badly than others. As the collision of London politicians of all colours with reality has shown over the last few decades, and especially over Brexit. Indeed, we only have to look to Ms Badenoch for an example.
    But, if you understood it well as you claim, you'd acknowledge one community in Northern Ireland was very supportive of Brexit.
    NI Brexit vote

    Remain 56%
    Leave 44%

    😇
    Yes, we all know that Sunil - and the Unionist community voted clearly for Brexit in NI.

    That is why it's complicated.
    Should the Asian and Black communities have had a veto on us Leaving?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,133

    Free and fair elections, just you can't pick anybody who will have any power to do anything.

    Syria will hold its first parliamentary elections on Sunday since the fall of Bashar al-Assad, amid concerns over inclusivity and successive delays.

    There will be no direct vote for the People's Assembly, which will be responsible for legislation during a transitional period. Instead, "electoral colleges" will select representatives for two-thirds of the 210 seats. Interim President Ahmed al-Sharaa will appoint the rest.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czrpx1vvr45o

    Three Provinces excluded for "security" reasons.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,335
    bobbob said:

    I’ll never understand why the media is so focused on Jews and trans. The uk gets more migrants in one year than the Jewish and trans population combined!

    Trains? Well since the last Deltic was retired….
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,202

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Unify = reduce surely? Brave when your party has recently lost a record breaking number of MPs.
    She's lost her marbles. Her remaining voters are are the ones most likely to want to keep the ECHR.

    ............The traditional ones -the Hesseltines the Clarks the Pattens and even the Majors.

    I'm afraid the time to get rid of Kemi has arrived. Let's hope her successor has a party to save
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,744
    .

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Er, in all seriousness, don't the Tories differ on other matters as well?
    I vaguely recall they used to be a fairly broad church.

    RIP
    The 'broad church' was and is only ever invoked when it suited the wet contingent. 'Get rid of the loons' was a more common cry when the boot was on the other foot. It was a great wheeze to eliminate the right from the PCP (though obviously still depend on right-leaning voters), and by extension from parliament. Such a great wheeze it has created Reform.
    Not only cobblers, but also a deeply unconservative view of what was, for a very long time indeed, a great party.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,176
    NEW: 🇬🇧 6k sample Voting Intention poll

    6,083 British adults, 26th September - 3rd October

    Changes w/ 19/08-01/09

    🟣 RFM: 31% (-1)
    🔴 LAB: 21% (-1)
    🔵 CON: 19% (+1)
    🟡 LDEM: 13% (+1)
    🟢 GRN: 9% (+2)

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1974763595251728712
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,822
    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Er, in all seriousness, don't the Tories differ on other matters as well?
    Of course, but this is a great proxy issue for everything. A hardcore lib dem will not commit to leaving the ECHR.
    And so the Tory party moves from a large base of differing views but with a common aim to a limited set of people.

    Bozo removed all the people who thought the EU wasn’t awful, now Kemi is removing anyone who thinks simply fixes don’t work.

    She’s shifting the party even further into irrelevance - while targeting Reform voters that will never vote Tory anyway
    We saw in the welfare bill the futility of having a large cohort of MPs but without any unified agenda. The Tory Party has been utterly crippled as a parliamentary force by what are essentially entryists. I suspect the vast, vast majority will tow the line. Those that do not, can try their luck with the Lib Dems, and good luck to them.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,652

    bobbob said:

    I’ll never understand why the media is so focused on Jews and trans. The uk gets more migrants in one year than the Jewish and trans population combined!

    Trains? Well since the last Deltic was retired….
    Huzzah!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,133

    NEW: 🇬🇧 6k sample Voting Intention poll

    6,083 British adults, 26th September - 3rd October

    Changes w/ 19/08-01/09

    🟣 RFM: 31% (-1)
    🔴 LAB: 21% (-1)
    🔵 CON: 19% (+1)
    🟡 LDEM: 13% (+1)
    🟢 GRN: 9% (+2)

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1974763595251728712

    Sleazy, broken Labour and Reform on the slide!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,133
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Er, in all seriousness, don't the Tories differ on other matters as well?
    I vaguely recall they used to be a fairly broad church.

    RIP
    The 'broad church' was and is only ever invoked when it suited the wet contingent. 'Get rid of the loons' was a more common cry when the boot was on the other foot. It was a great wheeze to eliminate the right from the PCP (though obviously still depend on right-leaning voters), and by extension from parliament. Such a great wheeze it has created Reform.
    Not only cobblers, but also a deeply unconservative view of what was, for a very long time indeed, a great party.
    A great party, rotted from within, was defeated from without.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,822
    ..

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Er, in all seriousness, don't the Tories differ on other matters as well?
    I vaguely recall they used to be a fairly broad church.

    RIP
    The 'broad church' was and is only ever invoked when it suited the wet contingent. 'Get rid of the loons' was a more common cry when the boot was on the other foot. It was a great wheeze to eliminate the right from the PCP (though obviously still depend on right-leaning voters), and by extension from parliament. Such a great wheeze it has created Reform.
    Not only cobblers, but also a deeply unconservative view of what was, for a very long time indeed, a great party.
    A great party, rotted from within, was defeated from without.
    Quite.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,744
    A somewhat reassuring view of the Czech election result.

    Seeing some foreign accounts saying that Czech fell to Russian propaganda.

    Lets clear a situation a bit. First of all communist are fucked. The polls showed at least 7 % support. There wasn’t even 5 percent. So they are not in parliament.

    Fascists underperformed massively. The polls predicted 12-14 %. They have barely 8 %.

    They’re not in position to dictate referendum on NATO or the EU.

    Motorists and ANO declared their support to the Alliance.

    Yes there might be rhetorical issues on Ukraine but I predict that business will deliver weapons to Ukraine as usual.

    Keep calm. There is plenty of support to Ukraine among the Czechs. I will do my part and I will mobilise people as much as I can...

    https://x.com/andrewofpolesia/status/1974542655922016496
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,176
    edited 11:20AM
    Nigelb said:

    A somewhat reassuring view of the Czech election result.

    Seeing some foreign accounts saying that Czech fell to Russian propaganda.

    Lets clear a situation a bit. First of all communist are fucked. The polls showed at least 7 % support. There wasn’t even 5 percent. So they are not in parliament.

    Fascists underperformed massively. The polls predicted 12-14 %. They have barely 8 %.

    They’re not in position to dictate referendum on NATO or the EU.

    Motorists and ANO declared their support to the Alliance.

    Yes there might be rhetorical issues on Ukraine but I predict that business will deliver weapons to Ukraine as usual.

    Keep calm. There is plenty of support to Ukraine among the Czechs. I will do my part and I will mobilise people as much as I can...

    https://x.com/andrewofpolesia/status/1974542655922016496

    What the deal with the "Motorists" party in the Czechia? Have the government been trying to force EVs on people or pay per mile or something?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,298
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Number written off as long-term sick hits 5,000 a day
    This isn't welfare - it's economic and social vandalism

    https://frasernelson.substack.com/p/number-written-off-as-long-term-sick

    Solution is simple: a maximum of twelve months, unless you are permanently incapacitated- the test for which should be very high.

    A "bad back", "anxiety" or "depression" isn't an excuse for the State to pay for you never to work again.
    As always, a denial that back health and mental health aren't real problems.
    Carnyx said:

    Number written off as long-term sick hits 5,000 a day
    This isn't welfare - it's economic and social vandalism

    https://frasernelson.substack.com/p/number-written-off-as-long-term-sick

    Solution is simple: a maximum of twelve months, unless you are permanently incapacitated- the test for which should be very high.

    A "bad back", "anxiety" or "depression" isn't an excuse for the State to pay for you never to work again.
    As always, a denial that back health and mental health aren't real problems.
    No, many of us will struggle with those during our lives.

    It isn't an excuse to live on welfare for the rest of your life.
    But some people are crippled for significant periods, not necessarily covered by sick pay from work.

    It's a very difficult issue but arguing that anyone claiming for more than 366 days should be tested and regarded as if claiming for life ("permanently") doesn't match reality.
    A cut off needs to be struck somewhere. And anyone off work for more than a year will find it very hard to ever get a job again.

    A year seems fair enough to me and enough time for people to get help with their issues, plot a path to recovery, and manage the exposure of the State.

    You don't help someone with a debt problem by continually bailing them out. You don't help someone with a motivation problem by continually validating their excuses.

    I think PIPs are harming not helping.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,092
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Er, in all seriousness, don't the Tories differ on other matters as well?
    I vaguely recall they used to be a fairly broad church.

    RIP
    Remember how the Corbynites used to tell Labour centrists to go away and join the Tories?

    How we laughed.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,665

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Er, in all seriousness, don't the Tories differ on other matters as well?
    Of course, but this is a great proxy issue for everything. A hardcore lib dem will not commit to leaving the ECHR.
    And so the Tory party moves from a large base of differing views but with a common aim to a limited set of people.

    Bozo removed all the people who thought the EU wasn’t awful, now Kemi is removing anyone who thinks simply fixes don’t work.

    She’s shifting the party even further into irrelevance - while targeting Reform voters that will never vote Tory anyway
    We saw in the welfare bill the futility of having a large cohort of MPs but without any unified agenda. The Tory Party has been utterly crippled as a parliamentary force by what are essentially entryists. I suspect the vast, vast majority will tow the line. Those that do not, can try their luck with the Lib Dems, and good luck to them.
    As far as I was aware, the real power in the Conservative Party was the local party chairman who had final say over who would be chosen to represent them. So whatever HQ said could be interpreted in whatever way they wanted. Or is my understanding out of date?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,279
    Just catching up with Laura K.

    To be brutal on the comms front:

    Shabana Mahmood says 'erm' a hell of a lot in speaking in interview.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,033
    edited 11:25AM
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Number written off as long-term sick hits 5,000 a day
    This isn't welfare - it's economic and social vandalism

    https://frasernelson.substack.com/p/number-written-off-as-long-term-sick

    Solution is simple: a maximum of twelve months, unless you are permanently incapacitated- the test for which should be very high.

    A "bad back", "anxiety" or "depression" isn't an excuse for the State to pay for you never to work again.
    As always, a denial that back health and mental health aren't real problems.
    Carnyx said:

    Number written off as long-term sick hits 5,000 a day
    This isn't welfare - it's economic and social vandalism

    https://frasernelson.substack.com/p/number-written-off-as-long-term-sick

    Solution is simple: a maximum of twelve months, unless you are permanently incapacitated- the test for which should be very high.

    A "bad back", "anxiety" or "depression" isn't an excuse for the State to pay for you never to work again.
    As always, a denial that back health and mental health aren't real problems.
    No, many of us will struggle with those during our lives.

    It isn't an excuse to live on welfare for the rest of your life.
    But some people are crippled for significant periods, not necessarily covered by sick pay from work.

    It's a very difficult issue but arguing that anyone claiming for more than 366 days should be tested and regarded as if claiming for life ("permanently") doesn't match reality.
    Though only get checked once in a blue moon and that by phone or internet is pretty laissez faire to say the least. There are shedloads taking the piss and living a lot better than people knocking their pan in every day. Free houses, council tax and no income tax on benefits is mental. They can get money for sneezing nowadays.

    PS: Yet some people who really need it get chased for being honest.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,694

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Number written off as long-term sick hits 5,000 a day
    This isn't welfare - it's economic and social vandalism

    https://frasernelson.substack.com/p/number-written-off-as-long-term-sick

    Solution is simple: a maximum of twelve months, unless you are permanently incapacitated- the test for which should be very high.

    A "bad back", "anxiety" or "depression" isn't an excuse for the State to pay for you never to work again.
    As always, a denial that back health and mental health aren't real problems.
    Carnyx said:

    Number written off as long-term sick hits 5,000 a day
    This isn't welfare - it's economic and social vandalism

    https://frasernelson.substack.com/p/number-written-off-as-long-term-sick

    Solution is simple: a maximum of twelve months, unless you are permanently incapacitated- the test for which should be very high.

    A "bad back", "anxiety" or "depression" isn't an excuse for the State to pay for you never to work again.
    As always, a denial that back health and mental health aren't real problems.
    No, many of us will struggle with those during our lives.

    It isn't an excuse to live on welfare for the rest of your life.
    But some people are crippled for significant periods, not necessarily covered by sick pay from work.

    It's a very difficult issue but arguing that anyone claiming for more than 366 days should be tested and regarded as if claiming for life ("permanently") doesn't match reality.
    A cut off needs to be struck somewhere. And anyone off work for more than a year will find it very hard to ever get a job again.

    A year seems fair enough to me and enough time for people to get help with their issues, plot a path to recovery, and manage the exposure of the State.

    You don't help someone with a debt problem by continually bailing them out. You don't help someone with a motivation problem by continually validating their excuses.

    I think PIPs are harming not helping.
    Er, PIP is not an unemployment benefit, any more than Universal Credit or child benefits/allowances are.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,797
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Er, in all seriousness, don't the Tories differ on other matters as well?
    I vaguely recall they used to be a fairly broad church.

    RIP
    The 'broad church' was and is only ever invoked when it suited the wet contingent. 'Get rid of the loons' was a more common cry when the boot was on the other foot. It was a great wheeze to eliminate the right from the PCP (though obviously still depend on right-leaning voters), and by extension from parliament. Such a great wheeze it has created Reform.
    Not only cobblers, but also a deeply unconservative view of what was, for a very long time indeed, a great party.
    Until it succumbed to some of Boris Johnson's great parties.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,725
    Roger said:

    It seems Starmer didn't check with his rich tea munching lady of a certain age before using her as the centrepiece of his speech.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15157691/Starmer-Retiree-conference-speech-meeting-racist.html

    Her recollections vary. And she's voting Reform.

    I think his memory's probably at fault here. We're talking about something that happened ten years ago. She is likely to remember quite well when a politician comes into her house for fifteen minutes - because it is so unusual. Whilst Starmer probably went into hundreds of houses over he last ten years, and he's simply mixed up two separate visits to different people. That's the way memory works.

    A very human failing.
    After ten years he's got a much better memory than me and what a stupid story..... The accounts over ten years are about as identical as anyone could expect. Even a Mail journalist might forget whether or not he had a rich tea biscuit ten years ago.

    ........If we want British society to improve we should ban the Mail. It's pernicious. Just an unpleasant rag....
    I think you miss the point

    Why would he recount a story from 10 years ago anyway and as far as banning anything you do not like is not a free society
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 116
    edited 11:28AM

    Civil Service flies in hundreds of foreign staff despite vow to cut migration
    Contrary to Labour pledge to bring situation under control, hordes of overseas workers still in Government employ
    ...
    Whitehall departments have sponsored 400 visas for foreign staff and paid £626,000 in fees to allow them to work in the UK in the last year.

    The staff, who must earn more than £41,700 a year or the “going rate” for their role, have been employed in the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), Department for Transport (DfT), Department for Business and Trade (DBT) and the Cabinet Office.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/10/04/civil-service-flies-hundreds-foreign-staff-migration/ (£££)

    As an aside, ‘hordes of overseas workers still in Government employ’ has a Yoda-like rhythm.

    This is a clear-cut example of people who are merely using "we want to control immigration" as a euphemism for "we want zero immigration".
    A minimum of £41,700 is a control.
    Isn’t £41700 the median wage? Not exactly bringing in the best of the best in shortage industries is it?

    Should be set to AT LEAST 1.5x the median in shortage industries AND demonstrate you can’t hire UK workers AND more evidence of skills and experience.

    We want brain surgeons not open borders for lanyard class middle managers
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,183

    NEW: 🇬🇧 6k sample Voting Intention poll

    6,083 British adults, 26th September - 3rd October

    Changes w/ 19/08-01/09

    🟣 RFM: 31% (-1)
    🔴 LAB: 21% (-1)
    🔵 CON: 19% (+1)
    🟡 LDEM: 13% (+1)
    🟢 GRN: 9% (+2)

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1974763595251728712

    SKS’s dazzling conference speech continuing to pay dividends, I see.*

    *for what it’s worth, I don’t think Labour had a terrible conference: but I don’t think conference season has the same impact on the polls it used to.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,335

    On topic, does anyone understand Northern Ireland?

    Palmerston
    I understand NI very well. The idea that anyone there gives an actual shit about the ECHR as anything other than a stick to beat on “the other side” is funny.

    Actually, that is slightly unfair. The SDLP probably care in terms of morality and human rights. So that’s the contents of one taxi cab.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,413

    Carnyx said:

    On topic, does anyone understand Northern Ireland?

    Some of us understand it less badly than others. As the collision of London politicians of all colours with reality has shown over the last few decades, and especially over Brexit. Indeed, we only have to look to Ms Badenoch for an example.
    But, if you understood it well as you claim, you'd acknowledge one community in Northern Ireland was very supportive of Brexit.
    NI Brexit vote

    Remain 56%
    Leave 44%

    😇
    Yes, we all know that Sunil - and the Unionist community voted clearly for Brexit in NI.

    That is why it's complicated.
    Kemi's point wasn't that the Unionist community voted clearly for Brexit in NI, and that it's complicated.

    Her point was that NI voted for Brexit and she was plain wrong as Sunil has pointed out.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,694
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Number written off as long-term sick hits 5,000 a day
    This isn't welfare - it's economic and social vandalism

    https://frasernelson.substack.com/p/number-written-off-as-long-term-sick

    Solution is simple: a maximum of twelve months, unless you are permanently incapacitated- the test for which should be very high.

    A "bad back", "anxiety" or "depression" isn't an excuse for the State to pay for you never to work again.
    As always, a denial that back health and mental health aren't real problems.
    Carnyx said:

    Number written off as long-term sick hits 5,000 a day
    This isn't welfare - it's economic and social vandalism

    https://frasernelson.substack.com/p/number-written-off-as-long-term-sick

    Solution is simple: a maximum of twelve months, unless you are permanently incapacitated- the test for which should be very high.

    A "bad back", "anxiety" or "depression" isn't an excuse for the State to pay for you never to work again.
    As always, a denial that back health and mental health aren't real problems.
    No, many of us will struggle with those during our lives.

    It isn't an excuse to live on welfare for the rest of your life.
    But some people are crippled for significant periods, not necessarily covered by sick pay from work.

    It's a very difficult issue but arguing that anyone claiming for more than 366 days should be tested and regarded as if claiming for life ("permanently") doesn't match reality.
    Though only get checked once in a blue moon and that by phone or internet is pretty laissez faire to say the least. There are shedloads taking the piss and living a lot better than people knocking their pan in every day. Free houses, council tax and no income tax on benefits is mental. They can get money for sneezing nowadays.

    PS: Yet some people who really need it get chased for being honest.
    Income tax on benefits - oh, some are taxed all right. The others seem to be means tested anyway so no point in complicating things - they wouldn't be paid if there was other income, etc. Though IANAE and taxing carer's allowance does rather clash with that - at least before the new changes.

    I don't disagree that the DWP has been crap at assessment management, either.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,055

    NEW: 🇬🇧 6k sample Voting Intention poll

    6,083 British adults, 26th September - 3rd October

    Changes w/ 19/08-01/09

    🟣 RFM: 31% (-1)
    🔴 LAB: 21% (-1)
    🔵 CON: 19% (+1)
    🟡 LDEM: 13% (+1)
    🟢 GRN: 9% (+2)

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1974763595251728712

    SKS’s dazzling conference speech continuing to pay dividends, I see.*

    *for what it’s worth, I don’t think Labour had a terrible conference: but I don’t think conference season has the same impact on the polls it used to.
    Palestine recognition has not had much effect either. The opposite in fact with the Greens doing better in a few polls.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,133

    Just catching up with Laura K.

    To be brutal on the comms front:

    Shabana Mahmood says 'erm' a hell of a lot in speaking in interview.

    Nervous?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,133

    On topic, does anyone understand Northern Ireland?

    Palmerston
    I understand NI very well. The idea that anyone there gives an actual shit about the ECHR as anything other than a stick to beat on “the other side” is funny.

    Actually, that is slightly unfair. The SDLP probably care in terms of morality and human rights. So that’s the contents of one taxi cab.
    APNI too?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,279
    Ouch.



    Stephen Bush

    @stephenkb.bsky.social‬

    Badenoch is the most compelling of the current party leaders because of the gulf between who she believes herself to be (she visibly thinks she is a bold thinker) and the reality (incredibly lazy and partisan).

    https://bsky.app/profile/stephenkb.bsky.social/post/3m2gvez44yk2d
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,797

    Roger said:

    It seems Starmer didn't check with his rich tea munching lady of a certain age before using her as the centrepiece of his speech.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15157691/Starmer-Retiree-conference-speech-meeting-racist.html

    Her recollections vary. And she's voting Reform.

    I think his memory's probably at fault here. We're talking about something that happened ten years ago. She is likely to remember quite well when a politician comes into her house for fifteen minutes - because it is so unusual. Whilst Starmer probably went into hundreds of houses over he last ten years, and he's simply mixed up two separate visits to different people. That's the way memory works.

    A very human failing.
    After ten years he's got a much better memory than me and what a stupid story..... The accounts over ten years are about as identical as anyone could expect. Even a Mail journalist might forget whether or not he had a rich tea biscuit ten years ago.

    ........If we want British society to improve we should ban the Mail. It's pernicious. Just an unpleasant rag....
    I think you miss the point

    Why would he recount a story from 10 years ago anyway and as far as banning anything you do not like is not a free society
    You don't really like @Roger expressing an opinion do you? You've shot him down in flames several times today over reasonably innocuous posts.

    Cancel the lefties!
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,183
    Eabhal said:

    NEW: 🇬🇧 6k sample Voting Intention poll

    6,083 British adults, 26th September - 3rd October

    Changes w/ 19/08-01/09

    🟣 RFM: 31% (-1)
    🔴 LAB: 21% (-1)
    🔵 CON: 19% (+1)
    🟡 LDEM: 13% (+1)
    🟢 GRN: 9% (+2)

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1974763595251728712

    SKS’s dazzling conference speech continuing to pay dividends, I see.*

    *for what it’s worth, I don’t think Labour had a terrible conference: but I don’t think conference season has the same impact on the polls it used to.
    Palestine recognition has not had much effect either. The opposite in fact with the Greens doing better in a few polls.
    People have stopped listening to Starmer. The only thing that can possibly save him is results, now - but even that’s no guarantee.

    Politics is a cruel business but political leaders either have ‘it’ or they don’t and Starmer just doesn’t.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,694
    bobbob said:

    Civil Service flies in hundreds of foreign staff despite vow to cut migration
    Contrary to Labour pledge to bring situation under control, hordes of overseas workers still in Government employ
    ...
    Whitehall departments have sponsored 400 visas for foreign staff and paid £626,000 in fees to allow them to work in the UK in the last year.

    The staff, who must earn more than £41,700 a year or the “going rate” for their role, have been employed in the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), Department for Transport (DfT), Department for Business and Trade (DBT) and the Cabinet Office.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/10/04/civil-service-flies-hundreds-foreign-staff-migration/ (£££)

    As an aside, ‘hordes of overseas workers still in Government employ’ has a Yoda-like rhythm.

    This is a clear-cut example of people who are merely using "we want to control immigration" as a euphemism for "we want zero immigration".
    A minimum of £41,700 is a control.
    Isn’t £41700 the median wage? Not exactly bringing in the best of the best in shortage industries is it?

    Should be set to AT LEAST 1.5x the median in shortage industries AND demonstrate you can’t hire UK workers AND more evidence of skills and experience.

    We want brain surgeons not open borders for lanyard class middle managers
    Coincidentally, I was just reading this piece. Those folks aren't "lanyard class middle managers".

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/oct/05/scottish-farmers-skilled-workers-visas-philippines
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,142

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Did we do that Google (Youtube) gave in and ponied up $24m to Trump to "settle" a frivolous lawsuit ? I missed it last week.

    YouTube agrees to pay Trump $24 million to settle lawsuit over Jan. 6 suspension

    YouTube will pay $24.5 million to President Trump to resolve a 2021 lawsuit that claimed he was the victim of censorship when the site suspended his account following the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol by Trump's supporters, according to federal court papers filed on Monday.

    It's the latest settlement reached by a tech company sued by Trump in the wake of the Capitol riots. In January, Meta paid the president $25 million over Facebook's and Instagram's decision to suspend Trump after Jan. 6. Elon Musk's X, formerly Twitter, paid out $10 million over similar allegations.

    https://www.npr.org/2025/09/29/nx-s1-5557371/youtube-trump-lawsuit-settlement

    To be fair to Trump demanding fealty taxes via lawsuits is a brilliant angle on corruption.
    I wonder what impact the next Congress passing an Act of Attainder would have?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,531
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    BBC News - Police to get broader powers to restrict repeated protests
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c24rmdngrrjo

    Labour in government habit of going all authorian showing through again. It's only 2 mins since the Tories attempt to curtail JSO blocking all the roads on a daily basis was met with outrage by Labour.

    Also whatever happened to the tradition of not announcing things during party conferences. They are all at these these days shouting over on another when each other conferences are on.

    I can see the need; if you lived somewhere that these anti-Jewish shits turned out every other week, you might be more than a little peeved. They don't care anything about the fear they cause in the Jewish community, or the disruption they cause to the lives of their fellow citizens.

    It is, however, a law change that could easily be exploited by bad regimes.

    As for your last paragraph: remember how Starmer and Labour lambasted Conservative governments for announcing things outside parliament? Now they're in power, they're doing exactly the same thing.
    Your language doesn't help you or your cause, or would you like it if I called you a pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill.

    The vast majority at these protests aren't anti Jewish, they are anti genocide, my friend's mother was arrested yesterday for the first time in her life at 80, which amused her son, given she's over the last 40 years protested against inter alia South Africa/apartheid, China/Tibet, Sudan, Russia, and Yugoslavia.

    From what I gather her crime, holding a Palestine flag, which according to others, will see no further action in a few weeks time.
    My apologies for my anger on this topic.

    I would not like it if you called me a "pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill". I would also be rather confused and amused, as I'm uncertain *how* you would make that connection. Especially as I was criticising Netanyahu *before* October 3rd, and you will not find me sharing anything other than contempt for Tommeh.

    However, here's why I call those who protested last night "anti-Jewish". Three days ago, there was a terrorist attack on a synagogue. These protests have been spreading fear in the Jewish community. At a time they are grieving, at a time they are fearful, these lovely people protest and spread more fear. And, in my view, hatred.

    It's similar to what I said about Tommeh's protest: if you attended you were amplifying his voice, not yours if you disagreed with him. In this case, the attendees amplified the fear many Jews in this country feel.

    And I find that appalling.
    Can we all please refer to the artist formerly known as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon please?

    No chummy nom de plumes please. He is not our friend.
    Are you going to call Zack by his original name (David)?
    That does raise the small matter of Mr Johnson ...
    I believe it is his middle name though (like James Gordon Brown)?

    Zack was the name David chose (to avoid confusion with his stepfather David)

    I bet his Mum still calls him David (or probably now Day...zack)
    Simpler to call them Mr Polanski and Mr Johnson, though.
    Comrade and Bozo.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,359
    Roger said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Unify = reduce surely? Brave when your party has recently lost a record breaking number of MPs.
    She's lost her marbles. Her remaining voters are are the ones most likely to want to keep the ECHR.

    ............The traditional ones -the Hesseltines the Clarks the Pattens and even the Majors.

    I'm afraid the time to get rid of Kemi has arrived. Let's hope her successor has a party to save
    They meant to elect Cleverly as leader, and I think he’d have been better. Whether it would have made any difference to their standing in the polls is moot.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,142
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Did we do that Google (Youtube) gave in and ponied up $24m to Trump to "settle" a frivolous lawsuit ? I missed it last week.

    YouTube agrees to pay Trump $24 million to settle lawsuit over Jan. 6 suspension

    YouTube will pay $24.5 million to President Trump to resolve a 2021 lawsuit that claimed he was the victim of censorship when the site suspended his account following the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol by Trump's supporters, according to federal court papers filed on Monday.

    It's the latest settlement reached by a tech company sued by Trump in the wake of the Capitol riots. In January, Meta paid the president $25 million over Facebook's and Instagram's decision to suspend Trump after Jan. 6. Elon Musk's X, formerly Twitter, paid out $10 million over similar allegations.

    https://www.npr.org/2025/09/29/nx-s1-5557371/youtube-trump-lawsuit-settlement

    I think that one security question that has not been considered sufficiently in Europe is what happens if Trump throws a tantrum and eg orders Google or Facebook to turn off Europe. He's been off "Free Speech" recently, and I have not noticed much from Toxic Elon recently * - but it's a very great dependency.

    * We seem to be more domestically focused over the last several months. I don't think we would miss twitter; losing that would be a good thing for political life.
    We’d benefit?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,425
    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    Er, in all seriousness, don't the Tories differ on other matters as well?
    Of course, but this is a great proxy issue for everything. A hardcore lib dem will not commit to leaving the ECHR.
    And so the Tory party moves from a large base of differing views but with a common aim to a limited set of people.

    Bozo removed all the people who thought the EU wasn’t awful, now Kemi is removing anyone who thinks simply fixes don’t work.

    She’s shifting the party even further into irrelevance - while targeting Reform voters that will never vote Tory anyway
    We saw in the welfare bill the futility of having a large cohort of MPs but without any unified agenda. The Tory Party has been utterly crippled as a parliamentary force by what are essentially entryists. I suspect the vast, vast majority will tow the line. Those that do not, can try their luck with the Lib Dems, and good luck to them.
    The Toriesand Labour both decided that rather than debate or compromise with their internal critics that they should tell them to piss off and join other parties. So they did and both parties are facing electoral oblivion.

    If Thatcher could tolerate Heath and Heseltine and Blair could tolerate Corbyn, why be so authoritarian?
    Whatever one’s view is of Corbyn it’s pretty clear that there was a concerted, well funded effort to get rid of him. I imagine having signed his name to the plot Starmer had to follow through and stamp out every sign of dissent and crush the dissenters, whatever his own inclinations were (though I have a strong sense he hardly has inclinations or political instincts or an ideology).
    What the Tories have been indulging in is harder to define, probably even to themselves.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,176

    Eabhal said:

    NEW: 🇬🇧 6k sample Voting Intention poll

    6,083 British adults, 26th September - 3rd October

    Changes w/ 19/08-01/09

    🟣 RFM: 31% (-1)
    🔴 LAB: 21% (-1)
    🔵 CON: 19% (+1)
    🟡 LDEM: 13% (+1)
    🟢 GRN: 9% (+2)

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1974763595251728712

    SKS’s dazzling conference speech continuing to pay dividends, I see.*

    *for what it’s worth, I don’t think Labour had a terrible conference: but I don’t think conference season has the same impact on the polls it used to.
    Palestine recognition has not had much effect either. The opposite in fact with the Greens doing better in a few polls.
    People have stopped listening to Starmer. The only thing that can possibly save him is results, now - but even that’s no guarantee.

    Politics is a cruel business but political leaders either have ‘it’ or they don’t and Starmer just doesn’t.
    They have find somebody who doesn't self combust upon contact with national stage. Andy "King of North" Burnham managed to chop his own legs off within 24hrs of trying to step on that stage again.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,748
    edited 11:43AM

    Roger said:

    It seems Starmer didn't check with his rich tea munching lady of a certain age before using her as the centrepiece of his speech.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15157691/Starmer-Retiree-conference-speech-meeting-racist.html

    Her recollections vary. And she's voting Reform.

    I think his memory's probably at fault here. We're talking about something that happened ten years ago. She is likely to remember quite well when a politician comes into her house for fifteen minutes - because it is so unusual. Whilst Starmer probably went into hundreds of houses over he last ten years, and he's simply mixed up two separate visits to different people. That's the way memory works.

    A very human failing.
    After ten years he's got a much better memory than me and what a stupid story..... The accounts over ten years are about as identical as anyone could expect. Even a Mail journalist might forget whether or not he had a rich tea biscuit ten years ago.

    ........If we want British society to improve we should ban the Mail. It's pernicious. Just an unpleasant rag....
    I think you miss the point

    Why would he recount a story from 10 years ago anyway and as far as banning anything you do not like is not a free society
    You don't really like @Roger expressing an opinion do you? You've shot him down in flames several times today over reasonably innocuous posts.

    Cancel the lefties!
    Everyone wants to cancel you, don't they?

    You just WISH even one of them would actually say so
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,282

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    This is clever and exactly what she should be doing. It's a great way to unify the PCP.
    The effect of banning candidates that don't sign up to exit from ECHR is to force people who know it to be a bad idea to pretend it's fine. This is different from requiring candidates to accept exiting ECHR is a party policy that the Conservatives would expect to implement in the unlikely event they make up the next government.

    [It is also a policy of deeply unserious people who don't think things through and don't see why they should. That is of course just my opinion and has nothing to do with party management of parties that I have a low opinion of]
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,725

    Roger said:

    It seems Starmer didn't check with his rich tea munching lady of a certain age before using her as the centrepiece of his speech.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15157691/Starmer-Retiree-conference-speech-meeting-racist.html

    Her recollections vary. And she's voting Reform.

    I think his memory's probably at fault here. We're talking about something that happened ten years ago. She is likely to remember quite well when a politician comes into her house for fifteen minutes - because it is so unusual. Whilst Starmer probably went into hundreds of houses over he last ten years, and he's simply mixed up two separate visits to different people. That's the way memory works.

    A very human failing.
    After ten years he's got a much better memory than me and what a stupid story..... The accounts over ten years are about as identical as anyone could expect. Even a Mail journalist might forget whether or not he had a rich tea biscuit ten years ago.

    ........If we want British society to improve we should ban the Mail. It's pernicious. Just an unpleasant rag....
    I think you miss the point

    Why would he recount a story from 10 years ago anyway and as far as banning anything you do not like is not a free society
    You don't really like @Roger expressing an opinion do you? You've shot him down in flames several times today over reasonably innocuous posts.

    Cancel the lefties!
    Well if you suggest I know nothing about Heaton Moor and the Jewish community, when I was born within a stone's throw with Hitler' bombs falling out of the sky and killing 6 neighbours and our love for the Jewish community living at the time of war and the holocaust, then you ask for a rebuttal

    And how does banning the Mail assist in free speech ?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,279

    Just catching up with Laura K.

    To be brutal on the comms front:

    Shabana Mahmood says 'erm' a hell of a lot in speaking in interview.

    Nervous?
    I think so. She's on the big stage now. There is no hiding and high office often finds people out.

    Badenoch being today's primary example. As I have said before she took the leadership far too early in her career and she's done.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,092
    Meanwhile, what?

    What??? I trust that those who are cross about ID cards will be livid about this proposal;

    The Tories say they would instruct police forces to check the details of everyone they arrest against biometric borders data, and would be allowed to use facial recognition without informing the public it is in use.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c708g5x2yqzo
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,020
    edited 11:46AM

    Meanwhile, what?

    What??? I trust that those who are cross about ID cards will be livid about this proposal;

    The Tories say they would instruct police forces to check the details of everyone they arrest against biometric borders data, and would be allowed to use facial recognition without informing the public it is in use.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c708g5x2yqzo

    "Livid" is not the word "Wearily depressed" is the word. Of course they would bloody do that. (throws drink at wall)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,279

    BTW, did we see that PB made Rentoul's column this week on the Greens?


    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/1974756502985453592

    "A detailed analysis of YouGov findings by Political Betting website..."

    Is that one of Gareth's? Well done!
    Yes, I think it was Gareth's he was referring to.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,538

    Conservatives will be BANNED from standing as Tory candidates at the next general election unless they sign up to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, Kemi Badenoch tells @CamillaTominey

    Gamble by Kemi, could see Cleverly backing MPs join Jenrick backing MPs to have a VONC in her
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,176
    edited 11:51AM

    Meanwhile, what?

    What??? I trust that those who are cross about ID cards will be livid about this proposal;

    The Tories say they would instruct police forces to check the details of everyone they arrest against biometric borders data, and would be allowed to use facial recognition without informing the public it is in use.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c708g5x2yqzo

    The Overton window definitely appears to have shifted, we have one party threatening to chuck out people will settled status, another wanting ID cards / banning people being able to stay unless they volunteer / banning protests and one wanting an ICE force with biometric checks.

    Any one of those a few years ago would have been labelled every -ist under the sun.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,020

    Just catching up with Laura K.

    To be brutal on the comms front:

    Shabana Mahmood says 'erm' a hell of a lot in speaking in interview.

    Nervous?
    Thinking. I do it too. It's excruciatingly embarrassing listening to myself. This is why I prefer lectures to interviews and podcasts: the signal-to-noise ratio is far better.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,142

    On topic

    I await her details on this subject which apparently follows a review by David Wolfson who is a barrister

    What has become increasingly obvious the powers of the ECHR are seen as a problem, and not just with Farage declaration to leave, and now Badenoch's, but also Starmer is wanting changes

    Some on the right have picked the ECHR as a bogeyman. They want to rekindle the Brexit debate and so have picked on something else with European in its name. The actual day-to-day impact of the ECHR on our lives is not great.

    The ECHR is not responsible for unaffordable housing, for insecure employment, for all-powerful tech companies creating monopolies. The ECHR is not responsible for cancer or dementia or long COVID. The ECHR does not cause rape or assaults or mobile phone theft. The ECHR is not why it's difficult to see a GP or book a driving test.

    Badenoch's announcement is clickbait as politics, not a serious attempt to make our lives better.
    Your second paragraph is not the reason why leaving or amending the ECHR is such a hot topic

    It relates entirely to our ability to stop the boats and illegal migration and it is clear even Starmer recognisies it and is reviewing parts of it

    The status quo on the ECHR is not sustainable

    Can you explain the mechanics of why we should join Russia and Belarus in a human rights hinterland?
    To make sure Canada and Australia can outvote them?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,425

    Just catching up with Laura K.

    To be brutal on the comms front:

    Shabana Mahmood says 'erm' a hell of a lot in speaking in interview.

    Nervous?
    I think so. She's on the big stage now. There is no hiding and high office often finds people out.

    Badenoch being today's primary example. As I have said before she took the leadership far too early in her career and she's done.
    Perhaps it’s discomfort caused by a ‘what I said then and what am I’m doing now’ thing? Not that this seems to be a problem in general for this Labour government except in contributing to its disastrous polling.

    https://x.com/saulstaniforth/status/1974785399076896816?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,725
    Lots of attacks on Badenoch on here but she is finally announcing policy and taking the fight to Reform

    I have no idea how the public will respond, but the conference season ends this week and Parliament is back next week so let's see where the polls land
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,425

    Lots of attacks on Badenoch on here but she is finally announcing policy and taking the fight to Reform

    I have no idea how the public will respond, but the conference season ends this week and Parliament is back next week so let's see where the polls land

    I have an idea on how the public will respond.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,725

    Lots of attacks on Badenoch on here but she is finally announcing policy and taking the fight to Reform

    I have no idea how the public will respond, but the conference season ends this week and Parliament is back next week so let's see where the polls land

    I have an idea on how the public will respond.
    I am sure you do but in this climate who knows
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