It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Isn't that also the case for credit card debt, mortgages, overdrafts etc? Is car financing particularly expensive by comparison? (I bought my car 10 years ago for cash, so it's not a ubject i have ever paid any attention to.)
Some car finance is usurious - as usual, with lower deposits etc the terms are worse. The issue is that they do little in the way of affordability checks, and load people up with big car mortgages on top of their regular mortgage/rent.
A side effect has been to make the car manufacturers target mass production of very expensive vehicles. Then along come the Chinese, who really pushed the prices down. They've taken advantage of the promise of EVs, that a simpler drive train could facilitate dropping prices massively.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Yes, car list prices have gone up a lot in recent years, and the spike in interest rates a couple of years ago has made many new deals totally unaffordable on a like-for-like basis.
Why your average Joe leases a new car will remain a total mystery to me, it’s totally dead money as the depreciation is horrific for those first three or four years. It’s understandable for a company car, but totally mad for a personal one.
If you can't afford the 4 bedroom detached house your parents have, having a better brand of car may make you feel better.
The issue as you say is that people who leased cars are suddenly discovering that the due to higher interest rates (and to a lesser extent higher list prices) they can't afford to replace their current car with an identical replacement as the PCP rate is £200+ more due to interest rates. But because interest rates were so low between 2009 and 2022 people have got used to low risk borrowing being very low cost so the PCP rate of a car was discounted bulk purchase price - expected 3 year value + sod all interest and now it's less discounted bulk purchase price - lower 3 year value + a lot of interest.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
I think there's a lot of truth in that and it holds more broadly, hence those articles in the Telegraph etc with headlines like "I earn a six figure salary but we are struggling". People assume a kind of entitlement to a certain kind of lifestyle and are then enraged when they can't afford it. I suppose that's just human nature, but it is accelerated by our hyper consumerist society and the advertising industry. It's better of course to aim for a lifestyle that is some way below your income and seek happiness and validation through things that don't cost much money, like spending time with family and friends or joining a local voluntary organization.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Quite a sedentary type, are you?
Are you one of those Gerald Ford types who can't walk and carry a phone at the same time ?
I'm surprised the government don't employ some of the brightest and best from advertising. To get such poor scores from things which the public have no idea about is just negligent. The principle isn't difficult. You find out what your target market consider important and then you creatively present what the goverment is doing or planning to do in that area. Wasting time on voters who think you are 'evil' is wasted energy. They are not your target market. They never will be. Just concentrate on those whose views are broadly in line with your offereings. Even if you have to tell your target market that we are going down the toilet. Make it sound like an interesting journey so you take them with you......
I am not sure advertising talent is what it was in your day.
Radio ads are dreadful "Pets in a Pickle" is my least favourite, and we don't have TV ads of the quality of the Smash aliens any more. My favourite and from the eighties was an Adam West lookalike Batman crime fighting in an Austin Metro to avoid Gotham City traffic congestion.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
I think there's a lot of truth in that and it holds more broadly, hence those articles in the Telegraph etc with headlines like "I earn a six figure salary but we are struggling". People assume a kind of entitlement to a certain kind of lifestyle and are then enraged when they can't afford it. I suppose that's just human nature, but it is accelerated by our hyper consumerist society and the advertising industry. It's better of course to aim for a lifestyle that is some way below your income and seek happiness and validation through things that don't cost much money, like spending time with family and friends or joining a local voluntary organization.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Same here. for the best part of 2 decades.
I often wear an apple watch, it makes paying for things easier...
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
I think there's a lot of truth in that and it holds more broadly, hence those articles in the Telegraph etc with headlines like "I earn a six figure salary but we are struggling". People assume a kind of entitlement to a certain kind of lifestyle and are then enraged when they can't afford it. I suppose that's just human nature, but it is accelerated by our hyper consumerist society and the advertising industry. It's better of course to aim for a lifestyle that is some way below your income and seek happiness and validation through things that don't cost much money, like spending time with family and friends or joining a local voluntary organization.
We seem to have so much more 'stuff' nowadays, that can do so much. But I'm unsure that we're much happier.
Speculation that this was a HIMARS missile attack on Belgorod, which if confirmed will be the first known use of the American-made missile in Russia, something which until now they had been denied permission to do by the Americans.
Are we starting to see some good come from the NATO sideline meetings at the UN last week? There’s no way that the Russians aren’t going to see an American-made missile hitting Russia as a severe provocation.
Edit: It might get even better. JD Vance: We’ll sell Tomahawks for Ukraine. https://x.com/mylovanov/status/1972361465807110564 This is a much longer-range system than HIMARS, puts Moscow well within reach from Ukraine.
That might even get some Democrats to go "tilt"
While Tomahawk is now now nuclear, there used to be a nuclear version. Which put it in various arms control categories. IIRC that was why they weren't sold to Israel. Chucking them in the direction of Russia would be seen as extra provocative.
Do we ever get to be “provoked” by, say, Russia sending military drones into NATO countries, or is the provocation risk only one-way?
Yes.
Personally, I would be mildly irritating in response.
I was hopeful our boys and girls in Cheltenham might have something enjoyable planned for Russian IT infrastructure, but perhaps the Ukrainians already have that one covered.
So he is pointing out that because of the alleged shooter’s background Vance and Patel can’t be terrible people and use a tragic shooting to make political points in favour of their side and in so doing uses a tragic shooting to make politician points in favour of his own side.
He probably thinks he has some moral high ground but ultimately this constant game of “your team did a shooting so you are bad” doesn’t make anyone look good because one time it’s the right and another the left so everyone is wrestling in the mud thinking they are cleaner.
I bet that Hasan was terrified that the alleged shooter might be a trans person or extreme leftist and then the relief when it turns out it’s not makes him feel righteous. The same the other way when the right are desperately hoping it’s not a rightie doing the shooting and when it turns out it’s a lefty, jubilation.
That's either naive or disingenuous. Vance etc have already been spinning this incident as part of a "war on Christianity", and implying it's leftist thugs.
You're effectively arguing that Democrats should cede entire the propaganda space to Trump and his crew, and if they don't they're just as bad as them. That's a heads we win tails you lose argument, and part of the reason Trump got elected in the first place.
The reason why previously not very popular Democrats like Newsom are now moving up rapidly in the polls is that they're throwing Trump's tactics back in his face.
It was more “a plague on both your houses” point. I’m fed up with either side hoping it’s not one of their team, hoping it’s one of the other team, using tragedies to score cheap dirty points - both sides do it and dance on the heads of pins to find “reasons” when it’s their team, both trying to assume some moral superiority over the other.
I find this whole situation absurd. America slides into fascism, and it's the fascists screaming that the other side are committing acts of political violence.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Quite a sedentary type, are you?
Are you one of those Gerald Ford types who can't walk and carry a phone at the same time ?
I appreciate that the PB demographic skews old white bloke but your comment doesn't help move the dial of this perception.
There are plenty of activities during which it would be anything from impractical to downright dangerous to whip out your phone, press the power button and then see what the time is.
Digital watch I get, although it does make you a tosser, but something on your wrist to tell the time is vital in very many settings. Not walking to get your pension or sitting still reading the Telegraph, maybe, but otherwise, plenty.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Isn't that also the case for credit card debt, mortgages, overdrafts etc? Is car financing particularly expensive by comparison? (I bought my car 10 years ago for cash, so it's not a ubject i have ever paid any attention to.)
Some car finance is usurious - as usual, with lower deposits etc the terms are worse. The issue is that they do little in the way of affordability checks, and load people up with big car mortgages on top of their regular mortgage/rent.
A side effect has been to make the car manufacturers target mass production of very expensive vehicles. Then along come the Chinese, who really pushed the prices down. They've taken advantage of the promise of EVs, that a simpler drive train could facilitate dropping prices massively.
Interesting, thank you. That ties in with an observation I made recently (Warning: Anecdote Alert.) Whilst my car (an Audi) was being serviced, I wandered around their new car showroom, and was baffled to discover that none of the vehicles had a price displayed on the windscreen. As all cars look the same to me, I couldn't tell whether I was looking at a £30,000 car (which I might be able to afford) or an £80,000 car (which I certainly could not.) The salesman told me that was because most people bought with finance deals these days, and the "price" was almost irrelevant ompared with the deposit put down, term of the loan, creditworthiness etc.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Your wrist is more accessible than your pocket or bag.
'You'll never need to work again': Criminals offer reporter money to hack BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w5n903447o Like many things in the shadowy world of cyber-crime, an insider threat is something very few people have experience of. Even fewer people want to talk about it. But I was given a unique and worrying experience of how hackers can leverage insiders when I myself was recently propositioned by a criminal gang. "If you are interested, we can offer you 15% of any ransom payment if you give us access to your PC." That was the message I received out of the blue from someone called Syndicate who pinged me in July on the encrypted chat app Signal. I had no idea who this person was but instantly knew what it was about. I was being offered a portion of a potentially large amount of money if I helped cyber criminals access BBC systems through my laptop. They would steal data or install malicious software and hold my employer to ransom and I would secretly get a cut. I had heard stories about this kind of thing. In fact, only a few days before the unsolicited message, news emerged from Brazil that an IT worker there had been arrested for selling his login details to hackers which police say led to the loss of $100m (£74m) for the banking victim. I decided to play along with Syndicate after taking advice from a senior BBC editor. I was eager to see how criminals make these shady deals with potentially treacherous employees at a time when cyber-attacks around the world are becoming more impactful and disruptive to everyday life. I told Syn, who had changed their name mid-conversation, that I was potentially interested but needed to know how it works. They explained that if I gave them my login details and security code then they would hack the BBC and then extort the corporation for a ransom in bitcoin. I would be in line for a portion of that payout. They upped their offer. "We aren't sure how much the BBC pays you but what if you took 25% of the final negotiation as we extract 1% of the BBC's total revenue? You wouldn't need to work ever again."..
If the BBC were hacked, would anyone notice the difference?
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Isn't that also the case for credit card debt, mortgages, overdrafts etc? Is car financing particularly expensive by comparison? (I bought my car 10 years ago for cash, so it's not a ubject i have ever paid any attention to.)
I bought my car (BMW) second hand for cash 23 years ago. and it's still running like a dream. ULEZ compliant too.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
if regulation helped this problem would have disappeared years ago. As long as any version of the never never exists the world always divides in two. Those for whom £40,000 split up into future liabilities over 4 years is less than £30,000 right now up front; and those for whom it is more.
Experience suggests that this distinction is educated into people at an early age and is more or less ineradicable.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Yes, car list prices have gone up a lot in recent years, and the spike in interest rates a couple of years ago has made many new deals totally unaffordable on a like-for-like basis.
Why your average Joe leases a new car will remain a total mystery to me, it’s totally dead money as the depreciation is horrific for those first three or four years. It’s understandable for a company car, but totally mad for a personal one.
If you can't afford the 4 bedroom detached house your parents have, having a better brand of car may make you feel better.
The issue as you say is that people who leased cars are suddenly discovering that the due to higher interest rates (and to a lesser extent higher list prices) they can't afford to replace their current car with an identical replacement as the PCP rate is £200+ more due to interest rates. But because interest rates were so low between 2009 and 2022 people have got used to low risk borrowing being very low cost so the PCP rate of a car was discounted bulk purchase price - expected 3 year value + sod all interest and now it's less discounted bulk purchase price - lower 3 year value + a lot of interest.
Yes, and the interest is based on the list price of the car minus deposit, so you’ve gone from paying e.g. 1% on £50k three years ago, to now needing to pay 5% of £70k for the same car, and with the new car expected to have considerably higher monetary depreciation over the lease term.
A friend described at as going from being able to afford the top-of-the-range model of any given car, to now being only able to afford the base model for the same money.
Rachel Reeves, interviewed by Nick Robinson on R4 this morning, started off poorly, rather hesitant and letting herself be interrupted/talked over. However, once she got into her stride in the second half she was actually fine and presented a pretty coherent narrative. She didn't sound like a Chancellor who's going to leave the job anytime soon.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Yep. One of my long-standing PB bugbears and rants. How come there are 25-plate Rangeys parked outside (no offence) bog standard municipal housing or in the drive of a very modest semi.
I suppose £425/month for five years (having paid £5-10k at the beginning and end) somehow makes people think it's affordable.
To say nothing of rates today.
A car is just a tool for getting from A to B when there’s not a suitable bus or train service. I can’t understand why people want a bigger, newer or faster car than is necessary for the job. See also: watches.
I'm surprised the government don't employ some of the brightest and best from advertising. To get such poor scores from things which the public have no idea about is just negligent. The principle isn't difficult. You find out what your target market consider important and then you creatively present what the goverment is doing or planning to do in that area. Wasting time on voters who think you are 'evil' is wasted energy. They are not your target market. They never will be. Just concentrate on those whose views are broadly in line with your offereings. Even if you have to tell your target market that we are going down the toilet. Make it sound like an interesting journey so you take them with you......
I am not sure advertising talent is what it was in your day.
Radio ads are dreadful "Pets in a Pickle" is my least favourite, and we don't have TV ads of the quality of the Smash aliens any more. My favourite ad from the eighties was an Adam West lookalike Batman crime fighting in an Austin Metro to avoid Gotham City traffic congestion.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Your wrist is more accessible than your pocket or bag.
And getting your phone out immediately attracts a flock of bicycle thieves I believe.
Rachel Reeves, interviewed by Nick Robinson on R4 this morning, started off poorly, rather hesitant and letting herself be interrupted/talked over. However, once she got into her stride in the second half she was actually fine and presented a pretty coherent narrative. She didn't sound like a Chancellor who's going to leave the job anytime soon.
She isn't. She's safe as long as Keith Donkey remains PM.
So he is pointing out that because of the alleged shooter’s background Vance and Patel can’t be terrible people and use a tragic shooting to make political points in favour of their side and in so doing uses a tragic shooting to make politician points in favour of his own side.
He probably thinks he has some moral high ground but ultimately this constant game of “your team did a shooting so you are bad” doesn’t make anyone look good because one time it’s the right and another the left so everyone is wrestling in the mud thinking they are cleaner.
I bet that Hasan was terrified that the alleged shooter might be a trans person or extreme leftist and then the relief when it turns out it’s not makes him feel righteous. The same the other way when the right are desperately hoping it’s not a rightie doing the shooting and when it turns out it’s a lefty, jubilation.
That's either naive or disingenuous. Vance etc have already been spinning this incident as part of a "war on Christianity", and implying it's leftist thugs.
You're effectively arguing that Democrats should cede entire the propaganda space to Trump and his crew, and if they don't they're just as bad as them. That's a heads we win tails you lose argument, and part of the reason Trump got elected in the first place.
The reason why previously not very popular Democrats like Newsom are now moving up rapidly in the polls is that they're throwing Trump's tactics back in his face.
It was more “a plague on both your houses” point. I’m fed up with either side hoping it’s not one of their team, hoping it’s one of the other team, using tragedies to score cheap dirty points - both sides do it and dance on the heads of pins to find “reasons” when it’s their team, both trying to assume some moral superiority over the other.
I find this whole situation absurd. America slides into fascism, and it's the fascists screaming that the other side are committing acts of political violence.
That isn't absurd: in the 1930s the Nazis complained the Communists were doing the violence. TBF, there was some Communist violence in 1930s Germany, but it was dwarfed by the violence committed by the right. And there was a lot of violence with the Communists and Nazis fighting each other.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Your wrist is more accessible than your pocket or bag.
Also - running. And fitness and health trackers in general.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
People like pretty things and they like to display pretty things to other people. Watches can be pretty, and, although it's changing now, culturally it's not usual for men to wear pretty jewellery like earrings. So watches it is.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Isn't that also the case for credit card debt, mortgages, overdrafts etc? Is car financing particularly expensive by comparison? (I bought my car 10 years ago for cash, so it's not a ubject i have ever paid any attention to.)
I bought my car (BMW) second hand for cash 23 years ago. and it's still running like a dream. ULEZ compliant too.
An intuition (or guess): PB contributors are heavily biased towards that minority of people who think that £3000 now is a smaller sum than £4000 spread over the next four years.
When I am out and about I wear a proper watch on my left wrist and the Fitbit thing on the right.
While this may make me look like a bit of a twat, I do this as I cannot easily read the screen of the Fitbit in bright sunlight. And I like a proper watch (albeit one that cost under £100).
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Isn't that also the case for credit card debt, mortgages, overdrafts etc? Is car financing particularly expensive by comparison? (I bought my car 10 years ago for cash, so it's not a ubject i have ever paid any attention to.)
I bought my car (BMW) second hand for cash 23 years ago. and it's still running like a dream. ULEZ compliant too.
An intuition (or guess): PB contributors are heavily biased towards that minority of people who think that £3000 now is a smaller sum than £4000 spread over the next four years.
In the case of car finance, we probably think £3000 now is smaller than £8000 spread over 4 years.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Isn't that also the case for credit card debt, mortgages, overdrafts etc? Is car financing particularly expensive by comparison? (I bought my car 10 years ago for cash, so it's not a ubject i have ever paid any attention to.)
Mortgages, of course, are heavily regulated, in part for the reason of avoiding people over-extending themselves.
I think the difference with car finance is that it has ensnared a whole group of people who don't spend irresponsibly on credit cards, making this effect a much wider group of society. And if it is having a wider societal impact then it is worthy of greater regulation.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Isn't that also the case for credit card debt, mortgages, overdrafts etc? Is car financing particularly expensive by comparison? (I bought my car 10 years ago for cash, so it's not a ubject i have ever paid any attention to.)
Some car finance is usurious - as usual, with lower deposits etc the terms are worse. The issue is that they do little in the way of affordability checks, and load people up with big car mortgages on top of their regular mortgage/rent.
A side effect has been to make the car manufacturers target mass production of very expensive vehicles. Then along come the Chinese, who really pushed the prices down. They've taken advantage of the promise of EVs, that a simpler drive train could facilitate dropping prices massively.
Interesting, thank you. That ties in with an observation I made recently (Warning: Anecdote Alert.) Whilst my car (an Audi) was being serviced, I wandered around their new car showroom, and was baffled to discover that none of the vehicles had a price displayed on the windscreen. As all cars look the same to me, I couldn't tell whether I was looking at a £30,000 car (which I might be able to afford) or an £80,000 car (which I certainly could not.) The salesman told me that was because most people bought with finance deals these days, and the "price" was almost irrelevant ompared with the deposit put down, term of the loan, creditworthiness etc.
The industry-speak is “Monthlies”.
If you ask the salesman about a car, he’ll ask you what’s your monthly car payment budget and work everything out backwards from there.
Of course he’ll probably come back with something that’s 25% over your budget, as a starting point of ‘negotiations’.
Edit: The whole car sales and finance “experience” is one of the factors behind Tesla’s success. Their model of doing everything online, without a human salesman trying to get his last hundred bucks of commission out of you, is vastly preferable to most car buyers, and especially to women.
Morning all Apologies if this was reported but been away, theres a third MRP this weekend from Survation, details out later today . Bit better for Labour and Farage just short of number 10 without Tory support
Rather old though, ending start Sept Party / Projected seats / Projected vote share
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Yes, car list prices have gone up a lot in recent years, and the spike in interest rates a couple of years ago has made many new deals totally unaffordable on a like-for-like basis.
Why your average Joe leases a new car will remain a total mystery to me, it’s totally dead money as the depreciation is horrific for those first three or four years. It’s understandable for a company car, but totally mad for a personal one.
If you can't afford the 4 bedroom detached house your parents have, having a better brand of car may make you feel better.
The issue as you say is that people who leased cars are suddenly discovering that the due to higher interest rates (and to a lesser extent higher list prices) they can't afford to replace their current car with an identical replacement as the PCP rate is £200+ more due to interest rates. But because interest rates were so low between 2009 and 2022 people have got used to low risk borrowing being very low cost so the PCP rate of a car was discounted bulk purchase price - expected 3 year value + sod all interest and now it's less discounted bulk purchase price - lower 3 year value + a lot of interest.
Yes, and the interest is based on the list price of the car minus deposit, so you’ve gone from paying e.g. 1% on £50k three years ago, to now needing to pay 5% of £70k for the same car, and with the new car expected to have considerably higher monetary depreciation over the lease term.
A friend described at as going from being able to afford the top-of-the-range model of any given car, to now being only able to afford the base model for the same money.
That’s one way to ‘feel poorer’.
My 70 plate VW Polo 1litre with 27k miles cost £12k a few months ago. I thought that was extortionate.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Yep. One of my long-standing PB bugbears and rants. How come there are 25-plate Rangeys parked outside (no offence) bog standard municipal housing or in the drive of a very modest semi.
I suppose £425/month for five years (having paid £5-10k at the beginning and end) somehow makes people think it's affordable.
To say nothing of rates today.
A car is just a tool for getting from A to B when there’s not a suitable bus or train service. I can’t understand why people want a bigger, newer or faster car than is necessary for the job. See also: watches.
People like nice, shiny things. As do I. It is natural. We could go the utilitarian route for everything but then you get to Gavin Stamp's "I see no reason why a sweater should have a pattern on it", which denies human diversity of imagination and creativity for its own sake. If I were a zillionnaire I would have a lot more "stuff" than I do today. And I will strive to get the "best" version of whatever it is, that I value (critical bit, this), as I can. It's all about affordability and the ex-post justification for not wanting a Maserati 250F (trick question - no one on the planet does not like or would not like to have a Maserati 250F).
For example, my car has to have a very decent sound system. It also has to have electric windows as I don't like having to wind them up and down while driving. You might not worry about such fripperies and be happy in winding windows up and down and also listening to music played through a crisp packet. There might, however, be something else you do/have, that would make me gasp in amazement.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
They are, of course, simply a way for people to advertise their wealth and sophistication (in the eyes of the beholder), like any other unnecessary item. We humans have a wide range of equivalents of the peacock's tail.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Your wrist is more accessible than your pocket or bag.
And getting your phone out immediately attracts a flock of bicycle thieves I believe.
Strange lot in Scotchland, then.
In London, the bicycle thieves steal bikes, mostly. May a plague of suppurating boils afflict their nether regions.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Quite a sedentary type, are you?
Are you one of those Gerald Ford types who can't walk and carry a phone at the same time ?
I appreciate that the PB demographic skews old white bloke but your comment doesn't help move the dial of this perception.
There are plenty of activities during which it would be anything from impractical to downright dangerous to whip out your phone, press the power button and then see what the time is.
Digital watch I get, although it does make you a tosser, but something on your wrist to tell the time is vital in very many settings. Not walking to get your pension or sitting still reading the Telegraph, maybe, but otherwise, plenty.
Look up sedentary, while you're taking a break from reading the Telegraph.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
I think there's a lot of truth in that and it holds more broadly, hence those articles in the Telegraph etc with headlines like "I earn a six figure salary but we are struggling". People assume a kind of entitlement to a certain kind of lifestyle and are then enraged when they can't afford it. I suppose that's just human nature, but it is accelerated by our hyper consumerist society and the advertising industry. It's better of course to aim for a lifestyle that is some way below your income and seek happiness and validation through things that don't cost much money, like spending time with family and friends or joining a local voluntary organization.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Your wrist is more accessible than your pocket or bag.
And getting your phone out immediately attracts a flock of bicycle thieves I believe.
And if it's very cold, doing so attracts a flock of icicle thieves.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Quite a sedentary type, are you?
Are you one of those Gerald Ford types who can't walk and carry a phone at the same time ?
I appreciate that the PB demographic skews old white bloke but your comment doesn't help move the dial of this perception.
There are plenty of activities during which it would be anything from impractical to downright dangerous to whip out your phone, press the power button and then see what the time is.
Digital watch I get, although it does make you a tosser, but something on your wrist to tell the time is vital in very many settings. Not walking to get your pension or sitting still reading the Telegraph, maybe, but otherwise, plenty.
Look up sedentary, while you're taking a break from reading the Telegraph.
So he is pointing out that because of the alleged shooter’s background Vance and Patel can’t be terrible people and use a tragic shooting to make political points in favour of their side and in so doing uses a tragic shooting to make politician points in favour of his own side.
He probably thinks he has some moral high ground but ultimately this constant game of “your team did a shooting so you are bad” doesn’t make anyone look good because one time it’s the right and another the left so everyone is wrestling in the mud thinking they are cleaner.
I bet that Hasan was terrified that the alleged shooter might be a trans person or extreme leftist and then the relief when it turns out it’s not makes him feel righteous. The same the other way when the right are desperately hoping it’s not a rightie doing the shooting and when it turns out it’s a lefty, jubilation.
That's either naive or disingenuous. Vance etc have already been spinning this incident as part of a "war on Christianity", and implying it's leftist thugs.
You're effectively arguing that Democrats should cede entire the propaganda space to Trump and his crew, and if they don't they're just as bad as them. That's a heads we win tails you lose argument, and part of the reason Trump got elected in the first place.
The reason why previously not very popular Democrats like Newsom are now moving up rapidly in the polls is that they're throwing Trump's tactics back in his face.
It was more “a plague on both your houses” point. I’m fed up with either side hoping it’s not one of their team, hoping it’s one of the other team, using tragedies to score cheap dirty points - both sides do it and dance on the heads of pins to find “reasons” when it’s their team, both trying to assume some moral superiority over the other.
I find this whole situation absurd. America slides into fascism, and it's the fascists screaming that the other side are committing acts of political violence.
That isn't absurd: in the 1930s the Nazis complained the Communists were doing the violence. TBF, there was some Communist violence in 1930s Germany, but it was dwarfed by the violence committed by the right. And there was a lot of violence with the Communists and Nazis fighting each other.
And the idiot Communists (following instructions from the Moscow office) claimed that the SPD were the same as the Nazis - and used violence against them....
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Quite a sedentary type, are you?
Are you one of those Gerald Ford types who can't walk and carry a phone at the same time ?
I appreciate that the PB demographic skews old white bloke but your comment doesn't help move the dial of this perception.
There are plenty of activities during which it would be anything from impractical to downright dangerous to whip out your phone, press the power button and then see what the time is.
Digital watch I get, although it does make you a tosser, but something on your wrist to tell the time is vital in very many settings. Not walking to get your pension or sitting still reading the Telegraph, maybe, but otherwise, plenty.
Look up sedentary, while you're taking a break from reading the Telegraph.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Your wrist is more accessible than your pocket or bag.
And getting your phone out immediately attracts a flock of bicycle thieves I believe.
Strange lot in Scotchland, then.
In London, the bicycle thieves steal bikes, mostly. May a plague of suppurating boils afflict their nether regions.
I heard a story recently about a bike thief trying to steal a very expensive triathlon bike from outside a cafe. He didn't get far, as he found it nearly impossible to ride and ended up abandoning it at the end of the road when the owner and his friends noticed. He didn't even steal the bike computer.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Yes, car list prices have gone up a lot in recent years, and the spike in interest rates a couple of years ago has made many new deals totally unaffordable on a like-for-like basis.
Why your average Joe leases a new car will remain a total mystery to me, it’s totally dead money as the depreciation is horrific for those first three or four years. It’s understandable for a company car, but totally mad for a personal one.
If you can't afford the 4 bedroom detached house your parents have, having a better brand of car may make you feel better.
The issue as you say is that people who leased cars are suddenly discovering that the due to higher interest rates (and to a lesser extent higher list prices) they can't afford to replace their current car with an identical replacement as the PCP rate is £200+ more due to interest rates. But because interest rates were so low between 2009 and 2022 people have got used to low risk borrowing being very low cost so the PCP rate of a car was discounted bulk purchase price - expected 3 year value + sod all interest and now it's less discounted bulk purchase price - lower 3 year value + a lot of interest.
Yes, and the interest is based on the list price of the car minus deposit, so you’ve gone from paying e.g. 1% on £50k three years ago, to now needing to pay 5% of £70k for the same car, and with the new car expected to have considerably higher monetary depreciation over the lease term.
A friend described at as going from being able to afford the top-of-the-range model of any given car, to now being only able to afford the base model for the same money.
That’s one way to ‘feel poorer’.
And if you couldn't afford the top of the range model last time around, a lot of people are discovering all they can afford this time round is second hand - and that will definitely hurt.
I'm going to stick to my old approach of buying at 2/3 years old and selling at 8 unless problems appear - which means 2028/9 when hopefully the winners of the EV transformation are clearly
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Yep. One of my long-standing PB bugbears and rants. How come there are 25-plate Rangeys parked outside (no offence) bog standard municipal housing or in the drive of a very modest semi.
I suppose £425/month for five years (having paid £5-10k at the beginning and end) somehow makes people think it's affordable.
To say nothing of rates today.
A car is just a tool for getting from A to B when there’s not a suitable bus or train service. I can’t understand why people want a bigger, newer or faster car than is necessary for the job. See also: watches.
I agree with the sentiment. However...
1) If you're doing 17,000 miles a year it's absolutely worth getting a car that is comfortable and has stuff like cruise control, decent stereo etc. You don't need to spend loads but the marginal gain here is worth it. 50% of a day in the hills is whizzing around Highland roads, so getting something that is fun is justifiable too in that case.
2) My Garmin watch has transformed my life in terms of keeping fit, sleeping well and so on. That's not necessary but the benefit:cost is clear.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Yep. One of my long-standing PB bugbears and rants. How come there are 25-plate Rangeys parked outside (no offence) bog standard municipal housing or in the drive of a very modest semi.
I suppose £425/month for five years (having paid £5-10k at the beginning and end) somehow makes people think it's affordable.
To say nothing of rates today.
A car is just a tool for getting from A to B when there’s not a suitable bus or train service. I can’t understand why people want a bigger, newer or faster car than is necessary for the job. See also: watches.
People like nice, shiny things. As do I. It is natural. We could go the utilitarian route for everything but then you get to Gavin Stamp's "I see no reason why a sweater should have a pattern on it", which denies human diversity of imagination and creativity for its own sake. If I were a zillionnaire I would have a lot more "stuff" than I do today. And I will strive to get the "best" version of whatever it is, that I value (critical bit, this), as I can. It's all about affordability and the ex-post justification for not wanting a Maserati 250F (trick question - no one on the planet does not like or would not like to have a Maserati 250F).
For example, my car has to have a very decent sound system. It also has to have electric windows as I don't like having to wind them up and down while driving. You might not worry about such fripperies and be happy in winding windows up and down and also listening to music played through a crisp packet. There might, however, be something else you do/have, that would make me gasp in amazement.
I am currently wearing a non patterned sweater. Having googled it, I have no desire for a Maserati 250F. No room for Mrs. F. I would get wet if it rains. I expect the servicing and parts are expensive. Still, it would be a boring old world if we were all alike.
Strangely we are all being a bit more conscientious rather than spendthirfty. Debt to Household Income going down. Perhaps we are concerned about future costs or a fiscally irresponsible government - based on historical precedent.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Quite a sedentary type, are you?
Are you one of those Gerald Ford types who can't walk and carry a phone at the same time ?
I appreciate that the PB demographic skews old white bloke but your comment doesn't help move the dial of this perception.
There are plenty of activities during which it would be anything from impractical to downright dangerous to whip out your phone, press the power button and then see what the time is.
Digital watch I get, although it does make you a tosser, but something on your wrist to tell the time is vital in very many settings. Not walking to get your pension or sitting still reading the Telegraph, maybe, but otherwise, plenty.
Look up sedentary, while you're taking a break from reading the Telegraph.
What are you talking about?
Just trying to deconstruct your verbiage.
If you don't understand it just ask. We're an inclusive lot here.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Your wrist is more accessible than your pocket or bag.
And getting your phone out immediately attracts a flock of bicycle thieves I believe.
Strange lot in Scotchland, then.
In London, the bicycle thieves steal bikes, mostly. May a plague of suppurating boils afflict their nether regions.
I heard a story recently about a bike thief trying to steal a very expensive triathlon bike from outside a cafe. He didn't get far, as he found it nearly impossible to ride and ended up abandoning it at the end of the road when the owner and his friends noticed. He didn't even steal the bike computer.
At the boat club, one of the rowers has had her bike stolen. The tracker (well integrated into it) shows the exact location. The police refused to do anything. There is some discussion about seeing the first two eight crews round to borrow it back - it's not far.
Got to say when TSE said the Tories were at risk of polling fifth, he ignored the very strong possibility that it will be Labour getting there first...
While I believe ID cards offer a whole set of benefits (as shown by the Lib Dems agreeing) I wouldn't be surprised in seeing some Labour voters switching Green...
"Lib Dems agreeing"?? Within 24 hours of the announcement, the Lib Dem HQ had a campaigining guide posted on how and why to oppose the plans.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Isn't that also the case for credit card debt, mortgages, overdrafts etc? Is car financing particularly expensive by comparison? (I bought my car 10 years ago for cash, so it's not a ubject i have ever paid any attention to.)
I bought my car (BMW) second hand for cash 23 years ago. and it's still running like a dream. ULEZ compliant too.
An intuition (or guess): PB contributors are heavily biased towards that minority of people who think that £3000 now is a smaller sum than £4000 spread over the next four years.
I had a discussion of exactly this kind with my step-daughter yesterday about her driving lesson price increase. The price of a lesson is going up from £30 to £33, but she can get 10 lessons for the old price if she pays up front. She: "But that's £300!" Me: "But you have the money, don't you?" She: "Yes, but £300 is so much to pay in one go" Me: "But if you pay for each lesson individually, that'll be £330 altogether" She: "But it won't feel like so much if I pay a bit at a time; I'm not paying £300 in one go!"
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Yep. One of my long-standing PB bugbears and rants. How come there are 25-plate Rangeys parked outside (no offence) bog standard municipal housing or in the drive of a very modest semi.
I suppose £425/month for five years (having paid £5-10k at the beginning and end) somehow makes people think it's affordable.
To say nothing of rates today.
A car is just a tool for getting from A to B when there’s not a suitable bus or train service. I can’t understand why people want a bigger, newer or faster car than is necessary for the job. See also: watches.
People like nice, shiny things. As do I. It is natural. We could go the utilitarian route for everything but then you get to Gavin Stamp's "I see no reason why a sweater should have a pattern on it", which denies human diversity of imagination and creativity for its own sake. If I were a zillionnaire I would have a lot more "stuff" than I do today. And I will strive to get the "best" version of whatever it is, that I value (critical bit, this), as I can. It's all about affordability and the ex-post justification for not wanting a Maserati 250F (trick question - no one on the planet does not like or would not like to have a Maserati 250F).
For example, my car has to have a very decent sound system. It also has to have electric windows as I don't like having to wind them up and down while driving. You might not worry about such fripperies and be happy in winding windows up and down and also listening to music played through a crisp packet. There might, however, be something else you do/have, that would make me gasp in amazement.
I don't particularly have a longing for shiny things. Maybe that's just me.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Yep. One of my long-standing PB bugbears and rants. How come there are 25-plate Rangeys parked outside (no offence) bog standard municipal housing or in the drive of a very modest semi.
I suppose £425/month for five years (having paid £5-10k at the beginning and end) somehow makes people think it's affordable.
To say nothing of rates today.
A car is just a tool for getting from A to B when there’s not a suitable bus or train service. I can’t understand why people want a bigger, newer or faster car than is necessary for the job. See also: watches.
People like nice, shiny things. As do I. It is natural. We could go the utilitarian route for everything but then you get to Gavin Stamp's "I see no reason why a sweater should have a pattern on it", which denies human diversity of imagination and creativity for its own sake. If I were a zillionnaire I would have a lot more "stuff" than I do today. And I will strive to get the "best" version of whatever it is, that I value (critical bit, this), as I can. It's all about affordability and the ex-post justification for not wanting a Maserati 250F (trick question - no one on the planet does not like or would not like to have a Maserati 250F).
For example, my car has to have a very decent sound system. It also has to have electric windows as I don't like having to wind them up and down while driving. You might not worry about such fripperies and be happy in winding windows up and down and also listening to music played through a crisp packet. There might, however, be something else you do/have, that would make me gasp in amazement.
I am currently wearing a non patterned sweater. Having googled it, I have no desire for a Maserati 250F. No room for Mrs. F. I would get wet if it rains. I expect the servicing and parts are expensive. Still, it would be a boring old world if we were all alike.
The bit I bolded (I hate it when people verb any old word) illustrates your failure of imagination and, dare I say it, rational thought. You are like a frog in a well. You think that it would be "expensive". No of course it wouldn't be. If you were in the zone of being able to afford (and race, which is what people do with them) a Maserati 250F then it wouldn't be "expensive". Any more than the Valu-Buy Aldi loo paper you buy today is expensive. To you. To millions in sub-Saharan Africa of course the Valu-Buy Aldi loo paper represents riches beyond compare.
Strangely we are all being a bit more conscientious rather than spendthirfty. Debt to Household Income going down. Perhaps we are concerned about future costs or a fiscally irresponsible government - based on historical precedent.
The devil is, as ever, in the segmentation of the aggregate numbers. IIRC the debt ratios for the lower incomes are pretty horrific.
I haven't worn a watch in decades. I can pretty much guess roughly what time it is and if I need accuracy there is usually a clock around somewhere to tell me.
Also don't care about cars. Have an old somewhat battered Berlingo which does the job.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Isn't that also the case for credit card debt, mortgages, overdrafts etc? Is car financing particularly expensive by comparison? (I bought my car 10 years ago for cash, so it's not a ubject i have ever paid any attention to.)
I bought my car (BMW) second hand for cash 23 years ago. and it's still running like a dream. ULEZ compliant too.
An intuition (or guess): PB contributors are heavily biased towards that minority of people who think that £3000 now is a smaller sum than £4000 spread over the next four years.
I had a discussion of exactly this kind with my step-daughter yesterday about her driving lesson price increase. The price of a lesson is going up from £30 to £33, but she can get 10 lessons for the old price if she pays up front. She: "But that's £300!" Me: "But you have the money, don't you?" She: "Yes, but £300 is so much to pay in one go" Me: "But if you pay for each lesson individually, that'll be £330 altogether" She: "But it won't feel like so much if I pay a bit at a time; I'm not paying £300 in one go!"
Seen most elegantly and explicitly with phones and phone contracts, whereby buying the phone and taking out a SIM-only deal is invariably cheaper than the monthly price over 24 months.
In general anyone who pays list price for a new car has been seen coming.
My new car I got from the dealer 2 years ago for £13,700. The list price was £17k.
We bought a new car last year for my wife and the list price was £28k, after about 30 mins of negotiating they added in a £4.5k dealer contribution to the finance agreement and a bunch of freebie insurances one of which we've actually used. Instead of a £5k deposit we only had to pay £500 on the day. I'll never understand why people don't negotiate.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Yes, car list prices have gone up a lot in recent years, and the spike in interest rates a couple of years ago has made many new deals totally unaffordable on a like-for-like basis.
Why your average Joe leases a new car will remain a total mystery to me, it’s totally dead money as the depreciation is horrific for those first three or four years. It’s understandable for a company car, but totally mad for a personal one.
If you can't afford the 4 bedroom detached house your parents have, having a better brand of car may make you feel better.
The issue as you say is that people who leased cars are suddenly discovering that the due to higher interest rates (and to a lesser extent higher list prices) they can't afford to replace their current car with an identical replacement as the PCP rate is £200+ more due to interest rates. But because interest rates were so low between 2009 and 2022 people have got used to low risk borrowing being very low cost so the PCP rate of a car was discounted bulk purchase price - expected 3 year value + sod all interest and now it's less discounted bulk purchase price - lower 3 year value + a lot of interest.
Yes, and the interest is based on the list price of the car minus deposit, so you’ve gone from paying e.g. 1% on £50k three years ago, to now needing to pay 5% of £70k for the same car, and with the new car expected to have considerably higher monetary depreciation over the lease term.
A friend described at as going from being able to afford the top-of-the-range model of any given car, to now being only able to afford the base model for the same money.
That’s one way to ‘feel poorer’.
And if you couldn't afford the top of the range model last time around, a lot of people are discovering all they can afford this time round is second hand - and that will definitely hurt.
I'm going to stick to my old approach of buying at 2/3 years old and selling at 8 unless problems appear - which means 2028/9 when hopefully the winners of the EV transformation are clearly
Yes, buying a 3yo car as a personal ride and keeping it for 5-10 years makes sense. It’s going to be mostly reliable and cheap to run. It definitely makes sense to plan keep whatever you have at the moment, until the industry shakes itself out in the next few years.
At the moment I’m doing a load of miles, so I bought an older but reliable car (basically a German taxi) and keep a budget for fixing it at a local garage, that’s a lot less than the depreciation I’d suffer running loads of miles on a newer car.
Older cars are also a lot more reliable than they were a couple of decades ago, and there’s a few gotchas with newer cars on emissions control tech which is really expensive to replace. They’re often issues you don’t notice but are MoT failure items.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Yep. One of my long-standing PB bugbears and rants. How come there are 25-plate Rangeys parked outside (no offence) bog standard municipal housing or in the drive of a very modest semi.
I suppose £425/month for five years (having paid £5-10k at the beginning and end) somehow makes people think it's affordable.
To say nothing of rates today.
A car is just a tool for getting from A to B when there’s not a suitable bus or train service. I can’t understand why people want a bigger, newer or faster car than is necessary for the job. See also: watches.
People like nice, shiny things. As do I. It is natural. We could go the utilitarian route for everything but then you get to Gavin Stamp's "I see no reason why a sweater should have a pattern on it", which denies human diversity of imagination and creativity for its own sake. If I were a zillionnaire I would have a lot more "stuff" than I do today. And I will strive to get the "best" version of whatever it is, that I value (critical bit, this), as I can. It's all about affordability and the ex-post justification for not wanting a Maserati 250F (trick question - no one on the planet does not like or would not like to have a Maserati 250F).
For example, my car has to have a very decent sound system. It also has to have electric windows as I don't like having to wind them up and down while driving. You might not worry about such fripperies and be happy in winding windows up and down and also listening to music played through a crisp packet. There might, however, be something else you do/have, that would make me gasp in amazement.
I don't particularly have a longing for shiny things. Maybe that's just me.
You are the exception. Most people like "stuff". Perhaps there is something that you like or like doing that others might think amazing(ly extravagant).
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Your wrist is more accessible than your pocket or bag.
And getting your phone out immediately attracts a flock of bicycle thieves I believe.
Strange lot in Scotchland, then.
In London, the bicycle thieves steal bikes, mostly. May a plague of suppurating boils afflict their nether regions.
I heard a story recently about a bike thief trying to steal a very expensive triathlon bike from outside a cafe. He didn't get far, as he found it nearly impossible to ride and ended up abandoning it at the end of the road when the owner and his friends noticed. He didn't even steal the bike computer.
At the boat club, one of the rowers has had her bike stolen. The tracker (well integrated into it) shows the exact location. The police refused to do anything. There is some discussion about seeing the first two eight crews round to borrow it back - it's not far.
The police really need to be told (continually) that with many items being 100% trackable their unwillingness to do what many people believe is their job (tracking thiefs and returning stolen goods) is destroying the public's opinion of then.
I haven't worn a watch in decades. I can pretty much guess roughly what time it is and if I need accuracy there is usually a clock around somewhere to tell me.
Also don't care about cars. Have an old somewhat battered Berlingo which does the job.
And yet you have a computer/tablet/smartphone to type your arch comment which represents as I noted above riches beyond compare to a non-trivial proportion of the world's population. To say nothing of the Berlingo.
COME ON SHEEPLE - START WISING UP THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE PB WHERE WE'RE ALL SMART AS FUCK.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Yes, car list prices have gone up a lot in recent years, and the spike in interest rates a couple of years ago has made many new deals totally unaffordable on a like-for-like basis.
Why your average Joe leases a new car will remain a total mystery to me, it’s totally dead money as the depreciation is horrific for those first three or four years. It’s understandable for a company car, but totally mad for a personal one.
If you can't afford the 4 bedroom detached house your parents have, having a better brand of car may make you feel better.
The issue as you say is that people who leased cars are suddenly discovering that the due to higher interest rates (and to a lesser extent higher list prices) they can't afford to replace their current car with an identical replacement as the PCP rate is £200+ more due to interest rates. But because interest rates were so low between 2009 and 2022 people have got used to low risk borrowing being very low cost so the PCP rate of a car was discounted bulk purchase price - expected 3 year value + sod all interest and now it's less discounted bulk purchase price - lower 3 year value + a lot of interest.
Yes, and the interest is based on the list price of the car minus deposit, so you’ve gone from paying e.g. 1% on £50k three years ago, to now needing to pay 5% of £70k for the same car, and with the new car expected to have considerably higher monetary depreciation over the lease term.
A friend described at as going from being able to afford the top-of-the-range model of any given car, to now being only able to afford the base model for the same money.
That’s one way to ‘feel poorer’.
And if you couldn't afford the top of the range model last time around, a lot of people are discovering all they can afford this time round is second hand - and that will definitely hurt.
I'm going to stick to my old approach of buying at 2/3 years old and selling at 8 unless problems appear - which means 2028/9 when hopefully the winners of the EV transformation are clearly
That is kind of my approach too, although through laziness more than anything else I'll probably hold onto the car for longer. Last time I bought at 2 years and sold at 9 because of ULEZ. The current one we bought at 2 and it's now 6 years old and I've no reason to sell it. Modern cars are so reliable and we only do about 4-5000 miles a year. It's a perfectly good car but far from top of the range. We could certainly afford a much fancier model but why bother?
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Isn't that also the case for credit card debt, mortgages, overdrafts etc? Is car financing particularly expensive by comparison? (I bought my car 10 years ago for cash, so it's not a ubject i have ever paid any attention to.)
I bought my car (BMW) second hand for cash 23 years ago. and it's still running like a dream. ULEZ compliant too.
An intuition (or guess): PB contributors are heavily biased towards that minority of people who think that £3000 now is a smaller sum than £4000 spread over the next four years.
I had a discussion of exactly this kind with my step-daughter yesterday about her driving lesson price increase. The price of a lesson is going up from £30 to £33, but she can get 10 lessons for the old price if she pays up front. She: "But that's £300!" Me: "But you have the money, don't you?" She: "Yes, but £300 is so much to pay in one go" Me: "But if you pay for each lesson individually, that'll be £330 altogether" She: "But it won't feel like so much if I pay a bit at a time; I'm not paying £300 in one go!"
This is the old fast food vs Michelin starred restaurant problem isn't it. Someone who spends £10 in McDonalds every day is spending the same amount of money eating out as someone who goes to a top restaurant once every X days where X is more than about 10 to 15.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Isn't that also the case for credit card debt, mortgages, overdrafts etc? Is car financing particularly expensive by comparison? (I bought my car 10 years ago for cash, so it's not a ubject i have ever paid any attention to.)
Mortgages, of course, are heavily regulated, in part for the reason of avoiding people over-extending themselves.
I think the difference with car finance is that it has ensnared a whole group of people who don't spend irresponsibly on credit cards, making this effect a much wider group of society. And if it is having a wider societal impact then it is worthy of greater regulation.
There is a substantial, though rather depressing, career in the field of debt/car recovery from defaulters. I know a few who have worked in this soul destroying business. They live in nice detached houses.
Strangely we are all being a bit more conscientious rather than spendthirfty. Debt to Household Income going down. Perhaps we are concerned about future costs or a fiscally irresponsible government - based on historical precedent.
The devil is, as ever, in the segmentation of the aggregate numbers. IIRC the debt ratios for the lower incomes are pretty horrific.
Throws up two scenarios. If households have more fiscal headroom, then taxes could rise without too much of a problem viz new car every 4 years instead of two. Also the additional cash raised, and with governments being redistributive, they could help some who are currently under more pressure than others.
I would expect something like this to happen in November with wails coming from the Daily Mail and others declaring it to be an assault on patriotic Brits e.g. money for the foreign and the workshy.
In general anyone who pays list price for a new car has been seen coming.
My new car I got from the dealer 2 years ago for £13,700. The list price was £17k.
We bought a new car last year for my wife and the list price was £28k, after about 30 mins of negotiating they added in a £4.5k dealer contribution to the finance agreement and a bunch of freebie insurances one of which we've actually used. Instead of a £5k deposit we only had to pay £500 on the day. I'll never understand why people don't negotiate.
Their ability/willingness to give you goodies disappears if you don’t take their finance. Regardless in my situation it was still cheaper not to take their finance (without the “dealer contributions”) than with it.
I know some people take the finance and then immediately pay it off but I couldn’t be arsed with the faff.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Isn't that also the case for credit card debt, mortgages, overdrafts etc? Is car financing particularly expensive by comparison? (I bought my car 10 years ago for cash, so it's not a ubject i have ever paid any attention to.)
I bought my car (BMW) second hand for cash 23 years ago. and it's still running like a dream. ULEZ compliant too.
An intuition (or guess): PB contributors are heavily biased towards that minority of people who think that £3000 now is a smaller sum than £4000 spread over the next four years.
I had a discussion of exactly this kind with my step-daughter yesterday about her driving lesson price increase. The price of a lesson is going up from £30 to £33, but she can get 10 lessons for the old price if she pays up front. She: "But that's £300!" Me: "But you have the money, don't you?" She: "Yes, but £300 is so much to pay in one go" Me: "But if you pay for each lesson individually, that'll be £330 altogether" She: "But it won't feel like so much if I pay a bit at a time; I'm not paying £300 in one go!"
Seen most elegantly and explicitly with phones and phone contracts, whereby buying the phone and taking out a SIM-only deal is invariably cheaper than the monthly price over 24 months.
Especially in a world where Apple offer interest free finance on iPhones over 24 months. It's a no brainer to buy the phone separately directly from Apple and then get a sim only deal. Phone + Sim works out to about £72 per month for me atm, I looked up the cost of getting an equivalent deal buying together from Vodafone and O2 and it was working out to about £110. I was shocked as to how much extra people end up paying for convenience.
In general anyone who pays list price for a new car has been seen coming.
My new car I got from the dealer 2 years ago for £13,700. The list price was £17k.
Even a Hyundai i10 has a list price of more than 17k now.
Mine is a Suzuki Swift, which I can see listed on the website of the dealer I bought it from for £18,399 . . . which is about right given 2 years of inflation.
So by a comparable discount, I'd expect you could actually get it if you negotiate for about £15k.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Your wrist is more accessible than your pocket or bag.
And getting your phone out immediately attracts a flock of bicycle thieves I believe.
Strange lot in Scotchland, then.
In London, the bicycle thieves steal bikes, mostly. May a plague of suppurating boils afflict their nether regions.
I heard a story recently about a bike thief trying to steal a very expensive triathlon bike from outside a cafe. He didn't get far, as he found it nearly impossible to ride and ended up abandoning it at the end of the road when the owner and his friends noticed. He didn't even steal the bike computer.
At the boat club, one of the rowers has had her bike stolen. The tracker (well integrated into it) shows the exact location. The police refused to do anything. There is some discussion about seeing the first two eight crews round to borrow it back - it's not far.
If it's like Edinburgh, it will be a big garage/shed with hundreds of bikes in it. It's bizarre that the police don't raid them because they'd be able to tick off hundreds of crimes in just a few hours work.
The reason is that the police focus on violent crimes where the cost hasn't been covered by insurance and the impact on the victim isn't profound. I can understand that approach (and it's shown to be effective), but it's incredibly frustrating for the rest of us.
There are even gumtree adverts where you can see the angle grinder in the background of the photo.
Got to say when TSE said the Tories were at risk of polling fifth, he ignored the very strong possibility that it will be Labour getting there first...
While I believe ID cards offer a whole set of benefits (as shown by the Lib Dems agreeing) I wouldn't be surprised in seeing some Labour voters switching Green...
"Lib Dems agreeing"?? Within 24 hours of the announcement, the Lib Dem HQ had a campaigining guide posted on how and why to oppose the plans.
It looks like Lisa Smart (MP for Hazel Grove) was sent out to fly a kite about supporting digital ID cards a few weeks ago and got monstered by the membership. Rightly or wrongly, it looks like the old order prevaileth amongst the Lib Dems once again.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Your wrist is more accessible than your pocket or bag.
And getting your phone out immediately attracts a flock of bicycle thieves I believe.
Strange lot in Scotchland, then.
In London, the bicycle thieves steal bikes, mostly. May a plague of suppurating boils afflict their nether regions.
I heard a story recently about a bike thief trying to steal a very expensive triathlon bike from outside a cafe. He didn't get far, as he found it nearly impossible to ride and ended up abandoning it at the end of the road when the owner and his friends noticed. He didn't even steal the bike computer.
At the boat club, one of the rowers has had her bike stolen. The tracker (well integrated into it) shows the exact location. The police refused to do anything. There is some discussion about seeing the first two eight crews round to borrow it back - it's not far.
The police really need to be told (continually) that with many items being 100% trackable their unwillingness to do what many people believe is their job (tracking thiefs and returning stolen goods) is destroying the public's opinion of then.
The question I have is *why* are the police reluctant / refusing to act in cases such as this. You'd have thought that it would be a reasonably straightforward case and so would be positive on their stats if that's what they care about?
In general anyone who pays list price for a new car has been seen coming.
My new car I got from the dealer 2 years ago for £13,700. The list price was £17k.
We bought a new car last year for my wife and the list price was £28k, after about 30 mins of negotiating they added in a £4.5k dealer contribution to the finance agreement and a bunch of freebie insurances one of which we've actually used. Instead of a £5k deposit we only had to pay £500 on the day. I'll never understand why people don't negotiate.
Their ability/willingness to give you goodies disappears if you don’t take their finance. Regardless in my situation it was still cheaper not to take their finance (without the “dealer contributions”) than with it.
I know some people take the finance and then immediately pay it off but I couldn’t be arsed with the faff.
That's basically what we did. Took the discounts and then once the penalty period for early repayment was over just paid the finance deal in full.
In general anyone who pays list price for a new car has been seen coming.
My new car I got from the dealer 2 years ago for £13,700. The list price was £17k.
We bought a new car last year for my wife and the list price was £28k, after about 30 mins of negotiating they added in a £4.5k dealer contribution to the finance agreement and a bunch of freebie insurances one of which we've actually used. Instead of a £5k deposit we only had to pay £500 on the day. I'll never understand why people don't negotiate.
Their ability/willingness to give you goodies disappears if you don’t take their finance. Regardless in my situation it was still cheaper not to take their finance (without the “dealer contributions”) than with it.
I know some people take the finance and then immediately pay it off but I couldn’t be arsed with the faff.
The dealer makes most of his commission on the finance, on vehicle options, accessories etc, also the profit margin on your part-exchange.
If you’re buying the base model with cash, he’s making very little and will treat you accordingly.
In general anyone who pays list price for a new car has been seen coming.
My new car I got from the dealer 2 years ago for £13,700. The list price was £17k.
We bought a new car last year for my wife and the list price was £28k, after about 30 mins of negotiating they added in a £4.5k dealer contribution to the finance agreement and a bunch of freebie insurances one of which we've actually used. Instead of a £5k deposit we only had to pay £500 on the day. I'll never understand why people don't negotiate.
Money can feel awkward. Negotiating can be the same.
On a personal level (not car-related), I have a strange, pathological aversion to spending money on myself. It doesn't extend to buying people gifts or essential items, but for anything frivolous it's always oddly difficult.
In general anyone who pays list price for a new car has been seen coming.
My new car I got from the dealer 2 years ago for £13,700. The list price was £17k.
We bought a new car last year for my wife and the list price was £28k, after about 30 mins of negotiating they added in a £4.5k dealer contribution to the finance agreement and a bunch of freebie insurances one of which we've actually used. Instead of a £5k deposit we only had to pay £500 on the day. I'll never understand why people don't negotiate.
Their ability/willingness to give you goodies disappears if you don’t take their finance. Regardless in my situation it was still cheaper not to take their finance (without the “dealer contributions”) than with it.
I know some people take the finance and then immediately pay it off but I couldn’t be arsed with the faff.
That's basically what we did. Took the discounts and then once the penalty period for early repayment was over just paid the finance deal in full.
What was the finance rate. Max don't tell me a sophisticated investment professional such as yourself couldn't have made a spread over that rate...
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Your wrist is more accessible than your pocket or bag.
And getting your phone out immediately attracts a flock of bicycle thieves I believe.
Strange lot in Scotchland, then.
In London, the bicycle thieves steal bikes, mostly. May a plague of suppurating boils afflict their nether regions.
I heard a story recently about a bike thief trying to steal a very expensive triathlon bike from outside a cafe. He didn't get far, as he found it nearly impossible to ride and ended up abandoning it at the end of the road when the owner and his friends noticed. He didn't even steal the bike computer.
At the boat club, one of the rowers has had her bike stolen. The tracker (well integrated into it) shows the exact location. The police refused to do anything. There is some discussion about seeing the first two eight crews round to borrow it back - it's not far.
The police really need to be told (continually) that with many items being 100% trackable their unwillingness to do what many people believe is their job (tracking thiefs and returning stolen goods) is destroying the public's opinion of then.
A question for the lawyers on here. What would be the court’s reaction to a defence argument of “I went round with some friends to retrieve my stolen property which the police knew the location of but refused to do anything about.”
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Your wrist is more accessible than your pocket or bag.
And getting your phone out immediately attracts a flock of bicycle thieves I believe.
Strange lot in Scotchland, then.
In London, the bicycle thieves steal bikes, mostly. May a plague of suppurating boils afflict their nether regions.
I heard a story recently about a bike thief trying to steal a very expensive triathlon bike from outside a cafe. He didn't get far, as he found it nearly impossible to ride and ended up abandoning it at the end of the road when the owner and his friends noticed. He didn't even steal the bike computer.
At the boat club, one of the rowers has had her bike stolen. The tracker (well integrated into it) shows the exact location. The police refused to do anything. There is some discussion about seeing the first two eight crews round to borrow it back - it's not far.
The police really need to be told (continually) that with many items being 100% trackable their unwillingness to do what many people believe is their job (tracking thiefs and returning stolen goods) is destroying the public's opinion of then.
The question I have is *why* are the police reluctant / refusing to act in cases such as this. You'd have thought that it would be a reasonably straightforward case and so would be positive on their stats if that's what they care about?
It's weird. Anecdata - a friend had her horsebox stolen which was airtagged. She saw it on the move and notified the police. Who finally found it (long since abandoned) six hours and three counties away. They could have had it on the move but did not act. Presumably if it was moving the thinking was it soon wasn't going to be their (county's) problem.
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Your wrist is more accessible than your pocket or bag.
And getting your phone out immediately attracts a flock of bicycle thieves I believe.
Strange lot in Scotchland, then.
In London, the bicycle thieves steal bikes, mostly. May a plague of suppurating boils afflict their nether regions.
I heard a story recently about a bike thief trying to steal a very expensive triathlon bike from outside a cafe. He didn't get far, as he found it nearly impossible to ride and ended up abandoning it at the end of the road when the owner and his friends noticed. He didn't even steal the bike computer.
At the boat club, one of the rowers has had her bike stolen. The tracker (well integrated into it) shows the exact location. The police refused to do anything. There is some discussion about seeing the first two eight crews round to borrow it back - it's not far.
The police really need to be told (continually) that with many items being 100% trackable their unwillingness to do what many people believe is their job (tracking thiefs and returning stolen goods) is destroying the public's opinion of then.
A question for the lawyers on here. What would be the court’s reaction to a defence argument of “I went round with some friends to retrieve my stolen property which the police knew the location of but refused to do anything about.”
You’d want that to be in front of a jury, not in front of the magistrates.
In general anyone who pays list price for a new car has been seen coming.
My new car I got from the dealer 2 years ago for £13,700. The list price was £17k.
We bought a new car last year for my wife and the list price was £28k, after about 30 mins of negotiating they added in a £4.5k dealer contribution to the finance agreement and a bunch of freebie insurances one of which we've actually used. Instead of a £5k deposit we only had to pay £500 on the day. I'll never understand why people don't negotiate.
Money can feel awkward. Negotiating can be the same.
On a personal level (not car-related), I have a strange, pathological aversion to spending money on myself. It doesn't extend to buying people gifts or essential items, but for anything frivolous it's always oddly difficult.
I hate spending money on myself 99% of the time but I think that gives me license to very occasionally splash out on something ridiculous.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Isn't that also the case for credit card debt, mortgages, overdrafts etc? Is car financing particularly expensive by comparison? (I bought my car 10 years ago for cash, so it's not a ubject i have ever paid any attention to.)
I bought my car (BMW) second hand for cash 23 years ago. and it's still running like a dream. ULEZ compliant too.
An intuition (or guess): PB contributors are heavily biased towards that minority of people who think that £3000 now is a smaller sum than £4000 spread over the next four years.
I had a discussion of exactly this kind with my step-daughter yesterday about her driving lesson price increase. The price of a lesson is going up from £30 to £33, but she can get 10 lessons for the old price if she pays up front. She: "But that's £300!" Me: "But you have the money, don't you?" She: "Yes, but £300 is so much to pay in one go" Me: "But if you pay for each lesson individually, that'll be £330 altogether" She: "But it won't feel like so much if I pay a bit at a time; I'm not paying £300 in one go!"
This is the old fast food vs Michelin starred restaurant problem isn't it. Someone who spends £10 in McDonalds every day is spending the same amount of money eating out as someone who goes to a top restaurant once every X days where X is more than about 10 to 15.
I suppose that brings me back to the argument about shiny things. I wouldn’t spend any more than necessary on a car or a watch, but I am happy to pay for a Michelin starred meal.
I haven't worn a watch in decades. I can pretty much guess roughly what time it is and if I need accuracy there is usually a clock around somewhere to tell me.
Also don't care about cars. Have an old somewhat battered Berlingo which does the job.
And yet you have a computer/tablet/smartphone to type your arch comment which represents as I noted above riches beyond compare to a non-trivial proportion of the world's population. To say nothing of the Berlingo.
COME ON SHEEPLE - START WISING UP THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE PB WHERE WE'RE ALL SMART AS FUCK.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Yes, car list prices have gone up a lot in recent years, and the spike in interest rates a couple of years ago has made many new deals totally unaffordable on a like-for-like basis.
Why your average Joe leases a new car will remain a total mystery to me, it’s totally dead money as the depreciation is horrific for those first three or four years. It’s understandable for a company car, but totally mad for a personal one.
If you can't afford the 4 bedroom detached house your parents have, having a better brand of car may make you feel better.
The issue as you say is that people who leased cars are suddenly discovering that the due to higher interest rates (and to a lesser extent higher list prices) they can't afford to replace their current car with an identical replacement as the PCP rate is £200+ more due to interest rates. But because interest rates were so low between 2009 and 2022 people have got used to low risk borrowing being very low cost so the PCP rate of a car was discounted bulk purchase price - expected 3 year value + sod all interest and now it's less discounted bulk purchase price - lower 3 year value + a lot of interest.
Yes, and the interest is based on the list price of the car minus deposit, so you’ve gone from paying e.g. 1% on £50k three years ago, to now needing to pay 5% of £70k for the same car, and with the new car expected to have considerably higher monetary depreciation over the lease term.
A friend described at as going from being able to afford the top-of-the-range model of any given car, to now being only able to afford the base model for the same money.
That’s one way to ‘feel poorer’.
And if you couldn't afford the top of the range model last time around, a lot of people are discovering all they can afford this time round is second hand - and that will definitely hurt.
I'm going to stick to my old approach of buying at 2/3 years old and selling at 8 unless problems appear - which means 2028/9 when hopefully the winners of the EV transformation are clearly
Yes, buying a 3yo car as a personal ride and keeping it for 5-10 years makes sense. It’s going to be mostly reliable and cheap to run. It definitely makes sense to plan keep whatever you have at the moment, until the industry shakes itself out in the next few years.
At the moment I’m doing a load of miles, so I bought an older but reliable car (basically a German taxi) and keep a budget for fixing it at a local garage, that’s a lot less than the depreciation I’d suffer running loads of miles on a newer car.
Older cars are also a lot more reliable than they were a couple of decades ago, and there’s a few gotchas with newer cars on emissions control tech which is really expensive to replace. They’re often issues you don’t notice but are MoT failure items.
If you want an expensive car then absolutely, but if you want an affordable car then vehicles like the Swift or i10 etc can be quite affordable even new and can be very cheap to operate.
I'm spending less now on my new (well now 2 year old) Swift than I was on my old car it replaced which was costing twice as much per mile to buy petrol for and was needing a repair budget and MOTs etc which new cars don't need.
Of course there's a world of difference between depreciating £13k and depreciating £60k.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Yep. One of my long-standing PB bugbears and rants. How come there are 25-plate Rangeys parked outside (no offence) bog standard municipal housing or in the drive of a very modest semi.
I suppose £425/month for five years (having paid £5-10k at the beginning and end) somehow makes people think it's affordable.
To say nothing of rates today.
A car is just a tool for getting from A to B when there’s not a suitable bus or train service. I can’t understand why people want a bigger, newer or faster car than is necessary for the job. See also: watches.
I agree with the sentiment. However...
1) If you're doing 17,000 miles a year it's absolutely worth getting a car that is comfortable and has stuff like cruise control, decent stereo etc. You don't need to spend loads but the marginal gain here is worth it. 50% of a day in the hills is whizzing around Highland roads, so getting something that is fun is justifiable too in that case.
2) My Garmin watch has transformed my life in terms of keeping fit, sleeping well and so on. That's not necessary but the benefit:cost is clear.
I went without a watch for 15 years. Then I too got a Garmin for fitness, sleep, etc. Very useful
However I sold my luscious Mini John Cooper Works 2 years ago and have barely missed it, haven’t replaced it, and I really enjoy the freedom from worry and faff. Parking, insurance, MOT, endless
When I’m abroad I rent and when I’m in London I use Zipcar - £7 an hour, all included - if I need a car. Love it
Meanwhile I have completely decluttered my flat and thrown out about 40 bin bags of gewgaws, gizmos, garbage, replacing them with a few well chosen antiques and some insane lamps and glass
It’s like Mounjaro for the soul. It’s great. Have fewer things, but make them exquisitely useful or beautiful
In general anyone who pays list price for a new car has been seen coming.
My new car I got from the dealer 2 years ago for £13,700. The list price was £17k.
We bought a new car last year for my wife and the list price was £28k, after about 30 mins of negotiating they added in a £4.5k dealer contribution to the finance agreement and a bunch of freebie insurances one of which we've actually used. Instead of a £5k deposit we only had to pay £500 on the day. I'll never understand why people don't negotiate.
Money can feel awkward. Negotiating can be the same.
On a personal level (not car-related), I have a strange, pathological aversion to spending money on myself. It doesn't extend to buying people gifts or essential items, but for anything frivolous it's always oddly difficult.
I hate spending money on myself 99% of the time but I think that gives me license to very occasionally splash out on something ridiculous.
There is a substantial, though rather depressing, career in the field of debt/car recovery from defaulters. I know a few who have worked in this soul destroying business. They live in nice detached houses.
A buddy of mine worked in Silicon Valley at the peak/crash of the dotcom bubble.
Every day a car transporter would appear and take away somebody's brand new Porsche or BMW
I haven't worn a watch in decades. I can pretty much guess roughly what time it is and if I need accuracy there is usually a clock around somewhere to tell me.
Also don't care about cars. Have an old somewhat battered Berlingo which does the job.
Everyone should have a proper analogue watch so that they can use it to work out the direction of south when the Russians jam GPS and they can no longer use their phone for navigation.
It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.
But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.
One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.
It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.
I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
Yep. One of my long-standing PB bugbears and rants. How come there are 25-plate Rangeys parked outside (no offence) bog standard municipal housing or in the drive of a very modest semi.
I suppose £425/month for five years (having paid £5-10k at the beginning and end) somehow makes people think it's affordable.
To say nothing of rates today.
A car is just a tool for getting from A to B when there’s not a suitable bus or train service. I can’t understand why people want a bigger, newer or faster car than is necessary for the job. See also: watches.
I agree with the sentiment. However...
1) If you're doing 17,000 miles a year it's absolutely worth getting a car that is comfortable and has stuff like cruise control, decent stereo etc. You don't need to spend loads but the marginal gain here is worth it. 50% of a day in the hills is whizzing around Highland roads, so getting something that is fun is justifiable too in that case.
2) My Garmin watch has transformed my life in terms of keeping fit, sleeping well and so on. That's not necessary but the benefit:cost is clear.
I went without a watch for 15 years. Then I too got a Garmin for fitness, sleep, etc. Very useful
However I sold my luscious Mini John Cooper Works 2 years ago and have barely missed it, haven’t replaced it, and I really enjoy the freedom from worry and faff. Parking, insurance, MOT, endless
When I’m abroad I rent when I’m in London I use Zipcar - £7 an hour, all included - if I need a car. Love it
Meanwhile I have completely decluttered my flat and thrown out about 40 bin bags of gewgaws, gizmos, garbage, replacing them with a few well chosen antiques and some insane lamps and glass
It’s like Mounjaro for the soul. It’s great. Have fewer things, but make them exquisitely useful or beautiful
I'm surprised the government don't employ some of the brightest and best from advertising. To get such poor scores from things which the public have no idea about is just negligent. The principle isn't difficult. You find out what your target market consider important and then you creatively present what the goverment is doing or planning to do in that area. Wasting time on voters who think you are 'evil' is wasted energy. They are not your target market. They never will be. Just concentrate on those whose views are broadly in line with your offereings. Even if you have to tell your target market that we are going down the toilet. Make it sound like an interesting journey so you take them with you......
I am not sure advertising talent is what it was in your day.
Radio ads are dreadful "Pets in a Pickle" is my least favourite, and we don't have TV ads of the quality of the Smash aliens any more. My favourite ad from the eighties was an Adam West lookalike Batman crime fighting in an Austin Metro to avoid Gotham City traffic congestion.
I haven't worn a watch in decades. I can pretty much guess roughly what time it is and if I need accuracy there is usually a clock around somewhere to tell me.
Also don't care about cars. Have an old somewhat battered Berlingo which does the job.
And yet you have a computer/tablet/smartphone to type your arch comment which represents as I noted above riches beyond compare to a non-trivial proportion of the world's population. To say nothing of the Berlingo.
COME ON SHEEPLE - START WISING UP THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE PB WHERE WE'RE ALL SMART AS FUCK.
OT.This is not new. It's De Nero telling everyone what he thinks of Trump. Articulate and a useful reminder that getting close to this rattlesnake is at best a short term solution and Starmer should be very aware
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Your wrist is more accessible than your pocket or bag.
And getting your phone out immediately attracts a flock of bicycle thieves I believe.
Strange lot in Scotchland, then.
In London, the bicycle thieves steal bikes, mostly. May a plague of suppurating boils afflict their nether regions.
I heard a story recently about a bike thief trying to steal a very expensive triathlon bike from outside a cafe. He didn't get far, as he found it nearly impossible to ride and ended up abandoning it at the end of the road when the owner and his friends noticed. He didn't even steal the bike computer.
At the boat club, one of the rowers has had her bike stolen. The tracker (well integrated into it) shows the exact location. The police refused to do anything. There is some discussion about seeing the first two eight crews round to borrow it back - it's not far.
The police really need to be told (continually) that with many items being 100% trackable their unwillingness to do what many people believe is their job (tracking thiefs and returning stolen goods) is destroying the public's opinion of then.
Secondary effects. Policing doesn't seem to consider those.
I grew up in Oxford. In that period - up to the early 90s - there was the following phenomenon. A certain individual was known by all to be in charge of the drug trade in West Oxford. People I knew bought cannabis from his associates. He was quite visible. He would even have chats with the police. It was also noticeable that his attempted rivals in the business were rapidly arrested. This included students at the University - every year there would be someone who thought that getting into retail would save themselves money...
Speculation was generally blatant corruption. My thought was that the police were happy with an organised, non violent trade. See Olivia Channon.
Some years later, I was talking to ex-police officer at a social event. We got onto the topic of discretion in policing. When I mentioned my theory as to the chap (above) he said nothing. But looked quite smug.
I then pointed out that, whatever the truth, the police had convinced a generation of Oxford students that the police were corrupt. And who does PPE at Oxford?
I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.
JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
Your wrist is more accessible than your pocket or bag.
And getting your phone out immediately attracts a flock of bicycle thieves I believe.
Strange lot in Scotchland, then.
In London, the bicycle thieves steal bikes, mostly. May a plague of suppurating boils afflict their nether regions.
I heard a story recently about a bike thief trying to steal a very expensive triathlon bike from outside a cafe. He didn't get far, as he found it nearly impossible to ride and ended up abandoning it at the end of the road when the owner and his friends noticed. He didn't even steal the bike computer.
At the boat club, one of the rowers has had her bike stolen. The tracker (well integrated into it) shows the exact location. The police refused to do anything. There is some discussion about seeing the first two eight crews round to borrow it back - it's not far.
The police really need to be told (continually) that with many items being 100% trackable their unwillingness to do what many people believe is their job (tracking thiefs and returning stolen goods) is destroying the public's opinion of then.
Why aren't PCCs, or even MPs, putting pressure on the police over this sort of thing?
Comments
A side effect has been to make the car manufacturers target mass production of very expensive vehicles. Then along come the Chinese, who really pushed the prices down. They've taken advantage of the promise of EVs, that a simpler drive train could facilitate dropping prices massively.
The issue as you say is that people who leased cars are suddenly discovering that the due to higher interest rates (and to a lesser extent higher list prices) they can't afford to replace their current car with an identical replacement as the PCP rate is £200+ more due to interest rates. But because interest rates were so low between 2009 and 2022 people have got used to low risk borrowing being very low cost so the PCP rate of a car was discounted bulk purchase price - expected 3 year value + sod all interest and now it's less discounted bulk purchase price - lower 3 year value + a lot of interest.
There are plenty of activities during which it would be anything from impractical to downright dangerous to whip out your phone, press the power button and then see what the time is.
Digital watch I get, although it does make you a tosser, but something on your wrist to tell the time is vital in very many settings. Not walking to get your pension or sitting still reading the Telegraph, maybe, but otherwise, plenty.
Experience suggests that this distinction is educated into people at an early age and is more or less ineradicable.
A friend described at as going from being able to afford the top-of-the-range model of any given car, to now being only able to afford the base model for the same money.
That’s one way to ‘feel poorer’.
She didn't sound like a Chancellor who's going to leave the job anytime soon.
I have this watch.
While this may make me look like a bit of a twat, I do this as I cannot easily read the screen of the Fitbit in bright sunlight. And I like a proper watch (albeit one that cost under £100).
I think the difference with car finance is that it has ensnared a whole group of people who don't spend irresponsibly on credit cards, making this effect a much wider group of society. And if it is having a wider societal impact then it is worthy of greater regulation.
If you ask the salesman about a car, he’ll ask you what’s your monthly car payment budget and work everything out backwards from there.
Of course he’ll probably come back with something that’s 25% over your budget, as a starting point of ‘negotiations’.
Edit: The whole car sales and finance “experience” is one of the factors behind Tesla’s success. Their model of doing everything online, without a human salesman trying to get his last hundred bucks of commission out of you, is vastly preferable to most car buyers, and especially to women.
For example, my car has to have a very decent sound system. It also has to have electric windows as I don't like having to wind them up and down while driving. You might not worry about such fripperies and be happy in winding windows up and down and also listening to music played through a crisp packet. There might, however, be something else you do/have, that would make me gasp in amazement.
In London, the bicycle thieves steal bikes, mostly. May a plague of suppurating boils afflict their nether regions.
https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1972581526878736491
Am sure that Andy Burnham BA Cantab English would recognise the quote.
Ref 293
Lab 191
LD 63
Con 42
SNP 30
Grn 6
Ref 29%
Lab 25%
Con 19%
LD 12%
Grn 7%
SNP 3%
I'm going to stick to my old approach of buying at 2/3 years old and selling at 8 unless problems appear - which means 2028/9 when hopefully the winners of the EV transformation are clearly
1) If you're doing 17,000 miles a year it's absolutely worth getting a car that is comfortable and has stuff like cruise control, decent stereo etc. You don't need to spend loads but the marginal gain here is worth it. 50% of a day in the hills is whizzing around Highland roads, so getting something that is fun is justifiable too in that case.
2) My Garmin watch has transformed my life in terms of keeping fit, sleeping well and so on. That's not necessary but the benefit:cost is clear.
She: "But that's £300!"
Me: "But you have the money, don't you?"
She: "Yes, but £300 is so much to pay in one go"
Me: "But if you pay for each lesson individually, that'll be £330 altogether"
She: "But it won't feel like so much if I pay a bit at a time; I'm not paying £300 in one go!"
My new car I got from the dealer 2 years ago for £13,700. The list price was £17k.
It just sounds right…..
When Mrs Eek's boss was in Antalya last time his highlight was a pirate boat drinking trip/
Also don't care about cars. Have an old somewhat battered Berlingo which does the job.
At the moment I’m doing a load of miles, so I bought an older but reliable car (basically a German taxi) and keep a budget for fixing it at a local garage, that’s a lot less than the depreciation I’d suffer running loads of miles on a newer car.
Older cars are also a lot more reliable than they were a couple of decades ago, and there’s a few gotchas with newer cars on emissions control tech which is really expensive to replace. They’re often issues you don’t notice but are MoT failure items.
COME ON SHEEPLE - START WISING UP THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE PB WHERE WE'RE ALL SMART AS FUCK.
senseme.I would expect something like this to happen in November with wails coming from the Daily Mail and others declaring it to be an assault on patriotic Brits e.g. money for the foreign and the workshy.
I know some people take the finance and then immediately pay it off but I couldn’t be arsed with the faff.
So by a comparable discount, I'd expect you could actually get it if you negotiate for about £15k.
The reason is that the police focus on violent crimes where the cost hasn't been covered by insurance and the impact on the victim isn't profound. I can understand that approach (and it's shown to be effective), but it's incredibly frustrating for the rest of us.
There are even gumtree adverts where you can see the angle grinder in the background of the photo.
If you’re buying the base model with cash, he’s making very little and will treat you accordingly.
On a personal level (not car-related), I have a strange, pathological aversion to spending money on myself. It doesn't extend to buying people gifts or essential items, but for anything frivolous it's always oddly difficult.
So I will leave you to it.
I'm spending less now on my new (well now 2 year old) Swift than I was on my old car it replaced which was costing twice as much per mile to buy petrol for and was needing a repair budget and MOTs etc which new cars don't need.
Of course there's a world of difference between depreciating £13k and depreciating £60k.
However I sold my luscious Mini John Cooper Works 2 years ago and have barely missed it, haven’t replaced it, and I really enjoy the freedom from worry and faff. Parking, insurance, MOT, endless
When I’m abroad I rent and when I’m in London I use Zipcar - £7 an hour, all included - if I need a car. Love it
Meanwhile I have completely decluttered my flat and thrown out about 40 bin bags of gewgaws, gizmos, garbage, replacing them with a few well chosen antiques and some insane lamps and glass
It’s like Mounjaro for the soul. It’s great. Have fewer things, but make them exquisitely useful or beautiful
Every day a car transporter would appear and take away somebody's brand new Porsche or BMW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvRFuUq4XTo
I grew up in Oxford. In that period - up to the early 90s - there was the following phenomenon. A certain individual was known by all to be in charge of the drug trade in West Oxford. People I knew bought cannabis from his associates. He was quite visible. He would even have chats with the police. It was also noticeable that his attempted rivals in the business were rapidly arrested. This included students at the University - every year there would be someone who thought that getting into retail would save themselves money...
Speculation was generally blatant corruption. My thought was that the police were happy with an organised, non violent trade. See Olivia Channon.
Some years later, I was talking to ex-police officer at a social event. We got onto the topic of discretion in policing. When I mentioned my theory as to the chap (above) he said nothing. But looked quite smug.
I then pointed out that, whatever the truth, the police had convinced a generation of Oxford students that the police were corrupt. And who does PPE at Oxford?