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These are the figures of a tired ten year old government – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,710
edited September 29 in General
These are the figures of a tired ten year old government – politicalbetting.com

?/ Ahead of their party conference, how do Britons see the Labour Party?Out of touch: 66%Unclear what they stand for: 65%Weak: 62%Untrustworthy: 61%Incompetent: 59%Serving themselves: 54%Care only about the few: 50%Prejudiced: 37%Extreme: 24%yougov.co.uk/politics/art…

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,020
    First, like Europe.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193
    Proud European, for one day every couple of years at least ⛳️🏆
  • Even worse than Rory McIlroy favourability ratings among American Ryder Cup fans.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,396

    Even worse than Rory McIlroy favourability ratings among American Ryder Cup fans.

    Albeit with somewhat more justification unless Caroline Wozniacki is an American Ryder Cup fan.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,003
    edited September 29
    Fair play to Donald Trump here.

    Magnanimity in defeat

    https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/115285037264191888
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,948
    Good morning, everyone.

    Turns out the Ming vase can also shatter after you get it home.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,054
    edited September 29

    Fair play to Donald Trump here.

    Magnanimity in defeat

    https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/115285037264191888

    I presumed it was going to be followed up with, barred, you are all barred from all my courses, especially moaning McIlroy, that what I hear all the other tour pros call him....instead he is annoyed about NFL kick offs.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    These are the worst government ratings until the next one.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,781

    Good morning, everyone.

    Turns out the Ming vase can also shatter after you get it home.

    Big G once accidentally called it the minge vase.

    I will not attempt a play on words at this time in the morning.
  • I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,537
    Sandpit said:

    Now 96% counted in Moldova, and Maia Sandu’s party has 52 seats of 101 in the Parliament.

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1972432062868246581

    They’re the Western-facing party, so that’s good news for the EU and for Ukraine.

    Their opposition was a lot more Eastern-facing, towards Russia, which would have been a less-than-optimal result for most of us. There had been allegations of underhanded Russian funding of their election campaign.

    Russia was accused of spending 1% of Moldovan GDP to subvert the government and elections. Which fortunately appears not to have worked - yet.

    It makes me wonder how much they're spending over here to subvert our democracy, and get a party in that more suits their purposes...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193
    Another day, and yet more russian infrastructure on fire.

    Belgorod this time.

    https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1972339228299362780
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,623
    About that announcement on being tougher on immigrants with ILR but not citizenship. It will run into legal challenges like this one. If they are here, they are entitled to live in dignity, the court has ruled. Note the comment about fleeing traumatic circumstances as it will have a wider application.

    Not something that can be conveyed in a soundbite on GB News. Not something that can be glossed over when changing legislation. The problem will be when offering simple solutions to complex problems in return for votes, a lot of people will be angry and disappointed the simple solutions are not there.


    "As the court has recognised, there are basic minimum living conditions that the UK government cannot lawfully allow families, who it has chosen to put on a route to settlement in the UK, to fall below. Preserving a minimum level of dignity for people through our national support systems should be a given. Yet there are gaping holes in those systems, and where they do exist - such as local authority duties under section 17 of the Children Act 1989 – they are not adequately funded by government. As a bare minimum we should always provide the necessary basic protections to ensure children do not live in undignified conditions, without adequate food, clothing, or shelter, particularly when they have recently fled traumatic circumstances. "

    https://cpag.org.uk/news/domestic-abuse-survivor-wins-universal-credit-appeal-case-will-help-destitute-eu-citizens-and
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,486

    I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.

    You will not struggle.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,537
    Sandpit said:

    Another day, and yet more russian infrastructure on fire.

    Belgorod this time.

    https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1972339228299362780

    That was hit yesterday; but yes, I love the smell of burning Russian infrastructure in the morning...

    Russia has had a strategy of hitting Ukraine's energy infrastructure over the last few winters. AIUI this is getting sparser returns, because the Ukrainians have devoted some money and brainpower into making that infrastructure more robust. The strikes will still hurt, but not as much as they did two or three years ago. Ukraine now seems to want to return the favour, and large parts of the energy infrastructure around Moscow are in easy range.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,020

    Good morning, everyone.

    Turns out the Ming vase can also shatter after you get it home.

    They just forgot to put any flowers in it
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193
    edited September 29
    Sandpit said:

    Another day, and yet more russian infrastructure on fire.

    Belgorod this time.

    https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1972339228299362780

    Speculation that this was a HIMARS missile attack on Belgorod, which if confirmed will be the first known use of the American-made missile in Russia, something which until now they had been denied permission to do by the Americans.

    https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1972386258795352523

    Are we starting to see some good come from the NATO sideline meetings at the UN last week? There’s no way that the Russians aren’t going to see an American-made missile hitting Russia as a severe provocation.

    Edit: It might get even better.
    JD Vance: We’ll sell Tomahawks for Ukraine.
    https://x.com/mylovanov/status/1972361465807110564
    This is a much longer-range system than HIMARS, puts Moscow well within reach from Ukraine.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,995

    Foxy said:

    These are the worst government ratings until the next one.

    I don't think so, they will still be the worst goverment ratings in 100 years time.

    Just think, if you selected 30 people totally at random, how many would be shysters, fraudsters, liars and utter nincompoops and yet that is Starmer's Cabinet. Literally he could go to Euston Station and pick up 30 people from the next train to turn up and in all likelihood they would be less unsuited to being cabinet members than the ones he has chosen. That is how bad he is. But, he is evil as well of course.
    EVIL
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,037
    edited September 29

    I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.

    Probably for the best. One of us urchins is bound to pick your pocket and give the proceeds to Mr Fagin.

    On topic, notice the top failure by the government- cost of living. There was a neat bit of polling a while back showing that, although immigration/boats is seen as the top issue facing the country, CoL is the biggest one facing most voters.

    It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.

    But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.

    (After all, the big ones are housing, energy and people who work for us. Building more homes will help, if it happens, but gradually. Energy is partly about wind and solar, but mostly about Ukraine. And, although I'd be better off if other people were paid less, it wouldn't be on.)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,020

    I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.

    Probably for the best. One of us urchins is bound to pick your pocket and give the proceeds to Mr Fagin.
    And he’ll have his phone nicked before he’s five minutes from the station, anyway. Apparently.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193


    It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.


    (After all, the big ones are housing, energy and people who work for us. Building more homes will help, if it happens, but gradually. Energy is partly about wind and solar, but mostly about Ukraine. And, although I'd be better off if other people were paid less, it wouldn't be on.)

    Isn’t September the second-worst month (after January) for most people having more month than money? Kids are back to school and the holiday credit card bill just landed.

    Housing requires some joined-up thinking from government on planning reform and building regulations, the annoucement of even a handful more small Poundburys isn’t going to be sufficient .
    Energy is basically impossible to fix with Ed Miliband in place
  • olmolm Posts: 126
    edited September 29
    Interesting that Green voters are generally much more sceptical of Labour than LibDems.

    The assumption was that many of the 10-12% occupied by Greens would convert to Your Party, and a big chunk of the remainder would revert to Labour or LibDem tactically - in most seats...

    However, it's possible that if Your Party continues to implode, and Starmer and Reeves continue to push ID, batter welfare, and give few jots for nature or climate, and shred planning systems, that people will see Greens (and LibDems and SNP/PC) in further surges/resurges. And even more green welly Tories to some extent in rural seats, though Zack may put them off.

    Indeed there's anecdotal evidence that Your Party buffoonery combined with lure of Zack has driven many dissafected socialists newly to the Greens.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,995
    We need 2029 to be a PR coupon election
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,781

    I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.

    I don't blame you.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521
    For all my criticisms of the current iteration of the Today programme they just had a very good long section on tax with Nick Robinson doing a large vox pop at Chester Races asking people who they think are “rich” and so should be taxed more. Seems the consensus was around £85k per year (he gave a few options).

    Regardless of the figure it was interesting actually listening to people articulating what we have discussed on here about what people consider “fair” etc.

    Followed up with a discussion with Ruth Curtis from the Resolution foundation. This is what Today should be doing for the whole programme, good quality analysis of news and politics without having to flip to numerous short pointless stories.
  • We need 2029 to be a PR coupon election

    Sadly Labour are just stupid enough to do that. They will see it as a last gasp chance to retain a left of centre majority in Parliament when all it will do is allow more extremist parties even further to the right than Reform a chance to gain MPs.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,655
    boulay said:

    For all my criticisms of the current iteration of the Today programme they just had a very good long section on tax with Nick Robinson doing a large vox pop at Chester Races asking people who they think are “rich” and so should be taxed more. Seems the consensus was around £85k per year (he gave a few options).

    Regardless of the figure it was interesting actually listening to people articulating what we have discussed on here about what people consider “fair” etc.

    Followed up with a discussion with Ruth Curtis from the Resolution foundation. This is what Today should be doing for the whole programme, good quality analysis of news and politics without having to flip to numerous short pointless stories.

    Wait until you get to one o'clock and WATO. World War 3 may have broken out and the first 25 minutes will be confined to discussing the tax implications thirty years ago of Starmer's donkey paddock.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193

    I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.

    Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,781
    edited September 29

    Foxy said:

    These are the worst government ratings until the next one.

    I don't think so, they will still be the worst goverment ratings in 100 years time.

    Just think, if you selected 30 people totally at random, how many would be shysters, fraudsters, liars and utter nincompoops and yet that is Starmer's Cabinet. Literally he could go to Euston Station and pick up 30 people from the next train to turn up and in all likelihood they would be less unsuited to being cabinet members than the ones he has chosen. That is how bad he is. But, he is evil as well of course.
    EVIL
    I do not think Starmer is evil, but there are many stages of moral turpitude before evil is reached.

    I was looking at the Spitting Image puppet of Starmer (incidentally the programme clips seem to have monstrous amounts of views on Youtube) and actually it's a good deal more likeable than the real thing, probably because they haven't been able to replicate that gimlet stare. The stare that says 'I'm telling you a barefaced lie, but I demand you believe me'.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,065

    Sandpit said:

    Another day, and yet more russian infrastructure on fire.

    Belgorod this time.

    https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1972339228299362780

    That was hit yesterday; but yes, I love the smell of burning Russian infrastructure in the morning...

    Russia has had a strategy of hitting Ukraine's energy infrastructure over the last few winters. AIUI this is getting sparser returns, because the Ukrainians have devoted some money and brainpower into making that infrastructure more robust. The strikes will still hurt, but not as much as they did two or three years ago. Ukraine now seems to want to return the favour, and large parts of the energy infrastructure around Moscow are in easy range.
    Not the same though. Russia was hitting power plants etc to try to make the Ukrainian civilian population cold and miserable in winter. Apparently that would want to make them embrace the Russia paper bear or something

    Ukraine has been hitting the oil and gas industry to reduce availability of exports and to limit fuel to the Russian army (and to civilians although they are not the primary target)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,020
    olm said:

    Interesting that Green voters are generally much more sceptical of Labour than LibDems.

    The assumption was that many of the 10-12% occupied by Greens would convert to Your Party, and a big chunk of the remainder would revert to Labour or LibDem tactically - in most seats...

    However, it's possible that if Your Party continues to implode, and Starmer and Reeves continue to push ID, batter welfare, and give few jots for nature or climate, and shred planning systems, that people will see Greens (and LibDems and SNP/PC) in further surges/resurges. And even more green welly Tories to some extent in rural seats, though Zack may put them off.

    Indeed there's anecdotal evidence that Your Party buffoonery combined with lure of Zack has driven many dissafected socialists newly to the Greens.

    Green voters are people who want the things Labour should be doing, but aren’t.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,367
    @mehdirhasan.bsky.social‬

    The alleged shooter in Michigan. Weird that Vance and Patel haven’t tweeted out this info.

    https://bsky.app/profile/mehdirhasan.bsky.social/post/3lzxbyuovss2v
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,020

    boulay said:

    For all my criticisms of the current iteration of the Today programme they just had a very good long section on tax with Nick Robinson doing a large vox pop at Chester Races asking people who they think are “rich” and so should be taxed more. Seems the consensus was around £85k per year (he gave a few options).

    Regardless of the figure it was interesting actually listening to people articulating what we have discussed on here about what people consider “fair” etc.

    Followed up with a discussion with Ruth Curtis from the Resolution foundation. This is what Today should be doing for the whole programme, good quality analysis of news and politics without having to flip to numerous short pointless stories.

    Wait until you get to one o'clock and WATO. World War 3 may have broken out and the first 25 minutes will be confined to discussing the tax implications thirty years ago of Starmer's donkey paddock.
    Then another ten minutes reporting whatever Farage has done or said today, before finally turning to the news…
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,065
    edited September 29

    Foxy said:

    These are the worst government ratings until the next one.

    I don't think so, they will still be the worst goverment ratings in 100 years time.

    Just think, if you selected 30 people totally at random, how many would be shysters, fraudsters, liars and utter nincompoops and yet that is Starmer's Cabinet. Literally he could go to Euston Station and pick up 30 people from the next train to turn up and in all likelihood they would be less unsuited to being cabinet members than the ones he has chosen. That is how bad he is. But, he is evil as well of course.
    He’s weak, inadequate, bureaucratic, self-serving, disloyal, inconstant, incompetent and mildly corrupt.

    But not evil.

    It doesn’t help to use emotional terms like that about political opponents

    Edit: I forgot unprincipled and pusillanimous
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,020

    We need 2029 to be a PR coupon election

    Sadly Labour are just stupid enough to do that. They will see it as a last gasp chance to retain a left of centre majority in Parliament when all it will do is allow more extremist parties even further to the right than Reform a chance to gain MPs.
    STV has an effective threshold of 15% or more; extremist parties to the right of Reform aren’t going to clear that
  • We need 2029 to be a PR coupon election

    Sadly Labour are just stupid enough to do that. They will see it as a last gasp chance to retain a left of centre majority in Parliament when all it will do is allow more extremist parties even further to the right than Reform a chance to gain MPs.
    Whilst care who people vote for, there is no argument in favour of the current system because they might vote for the wrong people.

    Time that Starmer used Brexit. People voted to eat sovvrintyinnit. Boris used sovereignty to Take Back Control of the border and fling it wide open. Starmer could use sovereignty to change the voting system. If Labour are supporting it then so will LD, Green, SNP etc. Reform are publicly in favour so will likely vote against as its a plot to steal their win or something. But as they only have five four five six five MPs who cares.

    Parliament can do anything that commands a majority.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    Interesting background on Nathan Gill, Farage's former right hand man in Wales. It isnt just the Russian bribes...

    https://bsky.app/profile/angusyoung61.bsky.social/post/3lzvwtovgts2q
  • Foxy said:

    These are the worst government ratings until the next one.

    I don't think so, they will still be the worst goverment ratings in 100 years time.

    Just think, if you selected 30 people totally at random, how many would be shysters, fraudsters, liars and utter nincompoops and yet that is Starmer's Cabinet. Literally he could go to Euston Station and pick up 30 people from the next train to turn up and in all likelihood they would be less unsuited to being cabinet members than the ones he has chosen. That is how bad he is. But, he is evil as well of course.
    He’s weak, inadequate, bureaucratic, self-serving, disloyal, inconstant, incompetent and mildly corrupt.

    But not evil.

    It doesn’t help to use emotional terms like that about political opponents

    Edit: I forgot unprincipled and pusillanimous
    Unhelpful as it is, the freedom to shout "Evil" at your opponents because nothing you say really matters is one of the few compensations of being in deep opposition.

    And yes, socialist chums, government is harder than it looks, isn't it?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,367
    @KevinASchofield

    Europe's Top Golfers Mock Donald Trump After Beating US To Win Ryder Cup

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1972557274590962023
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521
    Scott_xP said:

    @mehdirhasan.bsky.social‬

    The alleged shooter in Michigan. Weird that Vance and Patel haven’t tweeted out this info.

    https://bsky.app/profile/mehdirhasan.bsky.social/post/3lzxbyuovss2v

    So he is pointing out that because of the alleged shooter’s background Vance and Patel can’t be terrible people and use a tragic shooting to make political points in favour of their side and in so doing uses a tragic shooting to make politician points in favour of his own side.

    He probably thinks he has some moral high ground but ultimately this constant game of “your team did a shooting so you are bad” doesn’t make anyone look good because one time it’s the right and another the left so everyone is wrestling in the mud thinking they are cleaner.

    I bet that Hasan was terrified that the alleged shooter might be a trans person or extreme leftist and then the relief when it turns out it’s not makes him feel righteous. The same the other way when the right are desperately hoping it’s not a rightie doing the shooting and when it turns out it’s a lefty, jubilation.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193

    Foxy said:

    These are the worst government ratings until the next one.

    I don't think so, they will still be the worst goverment ratings in 100 years time.

    Just think, if you selected 30 people totally at random, how many would be shysters, fraudsters, liars and utter nincompoops and yet that is Starmer's Cabinet. Literally he could go to Euston Station and pick up 30 people from the next train to turn up and in all likelihood they would be less unsuited to being cabinet members than the ones he has chosen. That is how bad he is. But, he is evil as well of course.
    He’s weak, inadequate, bureaucratic, self-serving, disloyal, inconstant, incompetent and mildly corrupt.

    But not evil.

    It doesn’t help to use emotional terms like that about political opponents

    Edit: I forgot unprincipled and pusillanimous
    Unhelpful as it is, the freedom to shout "Evil" at your opponents because nothing you say really matters is one of the few compensations of being in deep opposition.

    And yes, socialist chums, government is harder than it looks, isn't it?
    It’s still better for the discourse to refer to one’s political opponents as misguided rather than evil, even if your choice of language is unconstrained by law.

    Government is always harder than opposition, as every new government quickly realises.
  • Foxy said:

    These are the worst government ratings until the next one.

    I don't think so, they will still be the worst goverment ratings in 100 years time.

    Just think, if you selected 30 people totally at random, how many would be shysters, fraudsters, liars and utter nincompoops and yet that is Starmer's Cabinet. Literally he could go to Euston Station and pick up 30 people from the next train to turn up and in all likelihood they would be less unsuited to being cabinet members than the ones he has chosen. That is how bad he is. But, he is evil as well of course.
    He’s weak, inadequate, bureaucratic, self-serving, disloyal, inconstant, incompetent and mildly corrupt.

    But not evil.

    It doesn’t help to use emotional terms like that about political opponents

    Edit: I forgot unprincipled and pusillanimous
    Good morning

    Starmer is not evil and it is unnecessary language

    He is simply not a PM by any definition and has been a terrible disappointment

    I think these football chants best describes him

    'You don't know what you are doing'

    And

    'You're getting sacked in the morning'
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,948
    Sandpit said:

    I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.

    Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
    Assuming Mr. Eagles' raiment has changed too much, I think 'expensive suit' might be more accurate. One shudders at the memory...

    [Just checked, and rather surprised that was 10 years ago, when the first Tour de Yorkshire was held].
  • Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    These are the worst government ratings until the next one.

    I don't think so, they will still be the worst goverment ratings in 100 years time.

    Just think, if you selected 30 people totally at random, how many would be shysters, fraudsters, liars and utter nincompoops and yet that is Starmer's Cabinet. Literally he could go to Euston Station and pick up 30 people from the next train to turn up and in all likelihood they would be less unsuited to being cabinet members than the ones he has chosen. That is how bad he is. But, he is evil as well of course.
    He’s weak, inadequate, bureaucratic, self-serving, disloyal, inconstant, incompetent and mildly corrupt.

    But not evil.

    It doesn’t help to use emotional terms like that about political opponents

    Edit: I forgot unprincipled and pusillanimous
    Unhelpful as it is, the freedom to shout "Evil" at your opponents because nothing you say really matters is one of the few compensations of being in deep opposition.

    And yes, socialist chums, government is harder than it looks, isn't it?
    It’s still better for the discourse to refer to one’s political opponents as misguided rather than evil, even if your choice of language is unconstrained by law.

    Government is always harder than opposition, as every new government quickly realises.
    Like many things humans do, from dangerously kinky sex to leaving a mess for future themselves to clear up, just because it's unwise doesn't mean we don't really want to do it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193
    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @mehdirhasan.bsky.social‬

    The alleged shooter in Michigan. Weird that Vance and Patel haven’t tweeted out this info.

    https://bsky.app/profile/mehdirhasan.bsky.social/post/3lzxbyuovss2v

    So he is pointing out that because of the alleged shooter’s background Vance and Patel can’t be terrible people and use a tragic shooting to make political points in favour of their side and in so doing uses a tragic shooting to make politician points in favour of his own side.

    He probably thinks he has some moral high ground but ultimately this constant game of “your team did a shooting so you are bad” doesn’t make anyone look good because one time it’s the right and another the left so everyone is wrestling in the mud thinking they are cleaner.

    I bet that Hasan was terrified that the alleged shooter might be a trans person or extreme leftist and then the relief when it turns out it’s not makes him feel righteous. The same the other way when the right are desperately hoping it’s not a rightie doing the shooting and when it turns out it’s a lefty, jubilation.
    This guy appears to be a military veteran shooting up a church. Most likely to be someone with a serious mental illness than any political affiliation, as with the vast majority of these incidents in the States.

    The likes of Mehdi Hasan are just trying to be provocative virtue-signallers as usual.
  • Sandpit said:

    I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.

    Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
    Assuming Mr. Eagles' raiment has changed too much, I think 'expensive suit' might be more accurate. One shudders at the memory...

    [Just checked, and rather surprised that was 10 years ago, when the first Tour de Yorkshire was held].
    Bespoke tailoring for the win.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another day, and yet more russian infrastructure on fire.

    Belgorod this time.

    https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1972339228299362780

    Speculation that this was a HIMARS missile attack on Belgorod, which if confirmed will be the first known use of the American-made missile in Russia, something which until now they had been denied permission to do by the Americans.

    https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1972386258795352523

    Are we starting to see some good come from the NATO sideline meetings at the UN last week? There’s no way that the Russians aren’t going to see an American-made missile hitting Russia as a severe provocation.
    Aye, but Russia sees Ukraine being independent as a provocation, and Georgia being proximate as a provocation. Not doing something because it 'might' provoke Russia means doing sod all except capitulating.
    Indeed so, having spent the last week busting NATO airspace with drones and fighter jets which they don’t see as provoking NATO at all.

    This war could be about to take a turn, there’s a lot of Western assets airbourne over Eastern Europe and the Baltics at the moment, Poland have been clearing their airspace on the boundary with Ukraine, there’s a number of US tanker aircraft currently heading for Europe…

    I predict something gets shot down this week for being where it shouldn’t be, most likely something Russian.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,443
    Scott_xP said:

    @mehdirhasan.bsky.social‬

    The alleged shooter in Michigan. Weird that Vance and Patel haven’t tweeted out this info.

    https://bsky.app/profile/mehdirhasan.bsky.social/post/3lzxbyuovss2v

    They need more time to engrave the bullet casings !
  • Foxy said:

    These are the worst government ratings until the next one.

    I don't think so, they will still be the worst goverment ratings in 100 years time.

    Just think, if you selected 30 people totally at random, how many would be shysters, fraudsters, liars and utter nincompoops and yet that is Starmer's Cabinet. Literally he could go to Euston Station and pick up 30 people from the next train to turn up and in all likelihood they would be less unsuited to being cabinet members than the ones he has chosen. That is how bad he is. But, he is evil as well of course.
    He’s weak, inadequate, bureaucratic, self-serving, disloyal, inconstant, incompetent and mildly corrupt.

    But not evil.

    It doesn’t help to use emotional terms like that about political opponents

    Edit: I forgot unprincipled and pusillanimous
    Good morning

    Starmer is not evil and it is unnecessary language

    He is simply not a PM by any definition and has been a terrible disappointment

    I think these football chants best describes him

    'You don't know what you are doing'

    And

    'You're getting sacked in the morning'
    Chants normally heard in grounds where the problems run much deeper than the manager.

    Where the ground is a rundown shack, the development and scouting don't happen and any spare cash is thrown at the latest gimmicky hero.

    And where the support base assume they are still entitled to outsized success because Portsmouth were brilliant when Jimmy Dickinson played for them.

    Much easier to blame and dump the figurehead, but it rarely works.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,948

    Sandpit said:

    I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.

    Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
    Assuming Mr. Eagles' raiment has changed too much, I think 'expensive suit' might be more accurate. One shudders at the memory...

    [Just checked, and rather surprised that was 10 years ago, when the first Tour de Yorkshire was held].
    Bespoke tailoring for the win.
    If you were a DnD character, your outfit could cause psychic damage.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,537
    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @mehdirhasan.bsky.social‬

    The alleged shooter in Michigan. Weird that Vance and Patel haven’t tweeted out this info.

    https://bsky.app/profile/mehdirhasan.bsky.social/post/3lzxbyuovss2v

    So he is pointing out that because of the alleged shooter’s background Vance and Patel can’t be terrible people and use a tragic shooting to make political points in favour of their side and in so doing uses a tragic shooting to make politician points in favour of his own side.

    He probably thinks he has some moral high ground but ultimately this constant game of “your team did a shooting so you are bad” doesn’t make anyone look good because one time it’s the right and another the left so everyone is wrestling in the mud thinking they are cleaner.

    I bet that Hasan was terrified that the alleged shooter might be a trans person or extreme leftist and then the relief when it turns out it’s not makes him feel righteous. The same the other way when the right are desperately hoping it’s not a rightie doing the shooting and when it turns out it’s a lefty, jubilation.
    This guy appears to be a military veteran shooting up a church. Most likely to be someone with a serious mental illness than any political affiliation, as with the vast majority of these incidents in the States.

    The likes of Mehdi Hasan are just trying to be provocative virtue-signallers as usual.
    If the political affiliation and personal situation matters one way, then it matters when it's the other way.

    Personally, the political affiliation and background are not a major causal factor in these events. The access to guns, and gun culture, is a much larger one - whether it is left on right, right on left, or just an angry man shaking his metaphorical fist at the world. And too many in the USA, especially on the right, want to ignore that.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521
    The Ukrainians just need to start blasting the speeches of Rachel Reeves at volume towards the Russians, retreat will follow quickly from the grim foghorn of doom assaulting their ears.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,367
    A slightly bewildered Trump (he's very sharp, really, honestly...) appears to acknowledge that his aides are lying to him

    @ytregaws.bsky.social‬

    "I spoke to the governor, she was very nice. But I said, 'Well wait a minute, am I watching things on television that are different from what's happening? My people tell me different.' They are literally attacking and there are fires all over the place...

    https://bsky.app/profile/ytregaws.bsky.social/post/3lzwaljztks2r
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,669
    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @mehdirhasan.bsky.social‬

    The alleged shooter in Michigan. Weird that Vance and Patel haven’t tweeted out this info.

    https://bsky.app/profile/mehdirhasan.bsky.social/post/3lzxbyuovss2v

    So he is pointing out that because of the alleged shooter’s background Vance and Patel can’t be terrible people and use a tragic shooting to make political points in favour of their side and in so doing uses a tragic shooting to make politician points in favour of his own side.

    He probably thinks he has some moral high ground but ultimately this constant game of “your team did a shooting so you are bad” doesn’t make anyone look good because one time it’s the right and another the left so everyone is wrestling in the mud thinking they are cleaner.

    I bet that Hasan was terrified that the alleged shooter might be a trans person or extreme leftist and then the relief when it turns out it’s not makes him feel righteous. The same the other way when the right are desperately hoping it’s not a rightie doing the shooting and when it turns out it’s a lefty, jubilation.
    That's either naive or disingenuous.
    Vance etc have already been spinning this incident as part of a "war on Christianity", and implying it's leftist thugs.

    You're effectively arguing that Democrats should cede entire the propaganda space to Trump and his crew, and if they don't they're just as bad as them. That's a heads we win tails you lose argument, and part of the reason Trump got elected in the first place.

    The reason why previously not very popular Democrats like Newsom are now moving up rapidly in the polls is that they're throwing Trump's tactics back in his face.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,669
    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @mehdirhasan.bsky.social‬

    The alleged shooter in Michigan. Weird that Vance and Patel haven’t tweeted out this info.

    https://bsky.app/profile/mehdirhasan.bsky.social/post/3lzxbyuovss2v

    So he is pointing out that because of the alleged shooter’s background Vance and Patel can’t be terrible people and use a tragic shooting to make political points in favour of their side and in so doing uses a tragic shooting to make politician points in favour of his own side.

    He probably thinks he has some moral high ground but ultimately this constant game of “your team did a shooting so you are bad” doesn’t make anyone look good because one time it’s the right and another the left so everyone is wrestling in the mud thinking they are cleaner.

    I bet that Hasan was terrified that the alleged shooter might be a trans person or extreme leftist and then the relief when it turns out it’s not makes him feel righteous. The same the other way when the right are desperately hoping it’s not a rightie doing the shooting and when it turns out it’s a lefty, jubilation.
    This guy appears to be a military veteran shooting up a church. Most likely to be someone with a serious mental illness than any political affiliation, as with the vast majority of these incidents in the States.

    The likes of Mehdi Hasan are just trying to be provocative virtue-signallers as usual.
    Sure they are.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,083

    Fair play to Donald Trump here.

    Magnanimity in defeat

    https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/115285037264191888

    Paul Azinger is not a happy bunny:

    “We all know that their tour is funded by the Ryder Cup. Every four years they rake it in. The real reality is our guys take no money and the European Tour players end up playing for the profit. They can claim what they want but I think it’s a false narrative. The way he framed it, it’s another sneaky effort but it’s a false narrative, it just is,” Azinger said. “The extra $200,000 this year that goes to the players, that money is going to go to local First Tees and local Boys and Girls Clubs. That’s what Sam Burns is talking about. No one is keeping that money. Two hundred grand is like $2.50 to these guys. That money is going to people in need. I would ask them where all their money goes.”
    ...
    “Europe is trying to work an ugly spin on something,” he said. “I would be doing the same thing Luke’s doing but when you’re playing chess you have to make a counter move. They're saying, we play for pride and not for money. Well, our guys can say we’re playing for pride and charity; your guys are playing for pride and the European Tour, which gets most of the money.”

    https://golfweek-eu.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/ryder-cup/2025/09/26/paul-azinger-defends-team-usa-paid-stipend-ryder-cup-2025/86359522007/
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,623

    Sandpit said:

    I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.

    Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
    I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.

    JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
    Flat cap and whippet?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521
    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @mehdirhasan.bsky.social‬

    The alleged shooter in Michigan. Weird that Vance and Patel haven’t tweeted out this info.

    https://bsky.app/profile/mehdirhasan.bsky.social/post/3lzxbyuovss2v

    So he is pointing out that because of the alleged shooter’s background Vance and Patel can’t be terrible people and use a tragic shooting to make political points in favour of their side and in so doing uses a tragic shooting to make politician points in favour of his own side.

    He probably thinks he has some moral high ground but ultimately this constant game of “your team did a shooting so you are bad” doesn’t make anyone look good because one time it’s the right and another the left so everyone is wrestling in the mud thinking they are cleaner.

    I bet that Hasan was terrified that the alleged shooter might be a trans person or extreme leftist and then the relief when it turns out it’s not makes him feel righteous. The same the other way when the right are desperately hoping it’s not a rightie doing the shooting and when it turns out it’s a lefty, jubilation.
    That's either naive or disingenuous.
    Vance etc have already been spinning this incident as part of a "war on Christianity", and implying it's leftist thugs.

    You're effectively arguing that Democrats should cede entire the propaganda space to Trump and his crew, and if they don't they're just as bad as them. That's a heads we win tails you lose argument, and part of the reason Trump got elected in the first place.

    The reason why previously not very popular Democrats like Newsom are now moving up rapidly in the polls is that they're throwing Trump's tactics back in his face.
    It was more “a plague on both your houses” point. I’m fed up with either side hoping it’s not one of their team, hoping it’s one of the other team, using tragedies to score cheap dirty points - both sides do it and dance on the heads of pins to find “reasons” when it’s their team, both trying to assume some moral superiority over the other.

  • Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @mehdirhasan.bsky.social‬

    The alleged shooter in Michigan. Weird that Vance and Patel haven’t tweeted out this info.

    https://bsky.app/profile/mehdirhasan.bsky.social/post/3lzxbyuovss2v

    So he is pointing out that because of the alleged shooter’s background Vance and Patel can’t be terrible people and use a tragic shooting to make political points in favour of their side and in so doing uses a tragic shooting to make politician points in favour of his own side.

    He probably thinks he has some moral high ground but ultimately this constant game of “your team did a shooting so you are bad” doesn’t make anyone look good because one time it’s the right and another the left so everyone is wrestling in the mud thinking they are cleaner.

    I bet that Hasan was terrified that the alleged shooter might be a trans person or extreme leftist and then the relief when it turns out it’s not makes him feel righteous. The same the other way when the right are desperately hoping it’s not a rightie doing the shooting and when it turns out it’s a lefty, jubilation.
    This guy appears to be a military veteran shooting up a church. Most likely to be someone with a serious mental illness than any political affiliation, as with the vast majority of these incidents in the States.

    The likes of Mehdi Hasan are just trying to be provocative virtue-signallers as usual.
    If the political affiliation and personal situation matters one way, then it matters when it's the other way.

    Personally, the political affiliation and background are not a major causal factor in these events. The access to guns, and gun culture, is a much larger one - whether it is left on right, right on left, or just an angry man shaking his metaphorical fist at the world. And too many in the USA, especially on the right, want to ignore that.
    In part, because angry men shaking their metaphorical fists at the world is an electorally useful demographic. Always has been to an extent, but especially now.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,623

    Foxy said:

    These are the worst government ratings until the next one.

    I don't think so, they will still be the worst goverment ratings in 100 years time.

    Just think, if you selected 30 people totally at random, how many would be shysters, fraudsters, liars and utter nincompoops and yet that is Starmer's Cabinet. Literally he could go to Euston Station and pick up 30 people from the next train to turn up and in all likelihood they would be less unsuited to being cabinet members than the ones he has chosen. That is how bad he is. But, he is evil as well of course.
    He’s weak, inadequate, bureaucratic, self-serving, disloyal, inconstant, incompetent and mildly corrupt.

    But not evil.

    It doesn’t help to use emotional terms like that about political opponents

    Edit: I forgot unprincipled and pusillanimous
    Good morning

    Starmer is not evil and it is unnecessary language

    He is simply not a PM by any definition and has been a terrible disappointment

    I think these football chants best describes him

    'You don't know what you are doing'

    And

    'You're getting sacked in the morning'
    Or .... all governments are redistributive but if there is nothing left to redistribute then there's not much you can do. Apart from selling the Ming vase and what's left of state assets that haven't been given away privatised before.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,986
    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @mehdirhasan.bsky.social‬

    The alleged shooter in Michigan. Weird that Vance and Patel haven’t tweeted out this info.

    https://bsky.app/profile/mehdirhasan.bsky.social/post/3lzxbyuovss2v

    So he is pointing out that because of the alleged shooter’s background Vance and Patel can’t be terrible people and use a tragic shooting to make political points in favour of their side and in so doing uses a tragic shooting to make politician points in favour of his own side.

    He probably thinks he has some moral high ground but ultimately this constant game of “your team did a shooting so you are bad” doesn’t make anyone look good because one time it’s the right and another the left so everyone is wrestling in the mud thinking they are cleaner.

    I bet that Hasan was terrified that the alleged shooter might be a trans person or extreme leftist and then the relief when it turns out it’s not makes him feel righteous. The same the other way when the right are desperately hoping it’s not a rightie doing the shooting and when it turns out it’s a lefty, jubilation.
    This guy appears to be a military veteran shooting up a church. Most likely to be someone with a serious mental illness than any political affiliation, as with the vast majority of these incidents in the States.

    The likes of Mehdi Hasan are just trying to be provocative virtue-signallers as usual.
    Just FYI - the fact the right always comes out with "mental illness" is something of a left-wing meme now. You'll need to find something else.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,627
    edited September 29
    Morning all
    Apologies if this was reported but been away, theres a third MRP this weekend from Survation, details out later today . Bit better for Labour and Farage just short of number 10 without Tory support

    Rather old though, ending start Sept
    Party / Projected seats / Projected vote share

    Con / 42 / 19

    Green / 6 / 7

    LDem / 63 / 12

    Lab / 191 / 25

    Reform / 293 / 29

    SNP / 30 / 3

    PC 2 / 1

    https://x.com/Survation/status/1972347873250709985?t=Xtl7adTqjSWCG7SckoX_4Q&s=19
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,065
    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @mehdirhasan.bsky.social‬

    The alleged shooter in Michigan. Weird that Vance and Patel haven’t tweeted out this info.

    https://bsky.app/profile/mehdirhasan.bsky.social/post/3lzxbyuovss2v

    So he is pointing out that because of the alleged shooter’s background Vance and Patel can’t be terrible people and use a tragic shooting to make political points in favour of their side and in so doing uses a tragic shooting to make politician points in favour of his own side.

    He probably thinks he has some moral high ground but ultimately this constant game of “your team did a shooting so you are bad” doesn’t make anyone look good because one time it’s the right and another the left so everyone is wrestling in the mud thinking they are cleaner.

    I bet that Hasan was terrified that the alleged shooter might be a trans person or extreme leftist and then the relief when it turns out it’s not makes him feel righteous. The same the other way when the right are desperately hoping it’s not a rightie doing the shooting and when it turns out it’s a lefty, jubilation.
    He’s a commentator not an elected leader
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,669
    edited September 29
    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @mehdirhasan.bsky.social‬

    The alleged shooter in Michigan. Weird that Vance and Patel haven’t tweeted out this info.

    https://bsky.app/profile/mehdirhasan.bsky.social/post/3lzxbyuovss2v

    So he is pointing out that because of the alleged shooter’s background Vance and Patel can’t be terrible people and use a tragic shooting to make political points in favour of their side and in so doing uses a tragic shooting to make politician points in favour of his own side.

    He probably thinks he has some moral high ground but ultimately this constant game of “your team did a shooting so you are bad” doesn’t make anyone look good because one time it’s the right and another the left so everyone is wrestling in the mud thinking they are cleaner.

    I bet that Hasan was terrified that the alleged shooter might be a trans person or extreme leftist and then the relief when it turns out it’s not makes him feel righteous. The same the other way when the right are desperately hoping it’s not a rightie doing the shooting and when it turns out it’s a lefty, jubilation.
    That's either naive or disingenuous.
    Vance etc have already been spinning this incident as part of a "war on Christianity", and implying it's leftist thugs.

    You're effectively arguing that Democrats should cede entire the propaganda space to Trump and his crew, and if they don't they're just as bad as them. That's a heads we win tails you lose argument, and part of the reason Trump got elected in the first place.

    The reason why previously not very popular Democrats like Newsom are now moving up rapidly in the polls is that they're throwing Trump's tactics back in his face.
    It was more “a plague on both your houses” point. I’m fed up with either side hoping it’s not one of their team, hoping it’s one of the other team, using tragedies to score cheap dirty points - both sides do it and dance on the heads of pins to find “reasons” when it’s their team, both trying to assume some moral superiority over the other.

    And, as I pointed out, I don't think that's what was happening here.

    Your self righteous stance hardly squares with you straightforward assumption that you understand Hasssan's motives: I bet that Hasan was terrified that the alleged shooter might be a trans person or extreme leftist and then the relief when it turns out it’s not makes him feel righteous...
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,020
    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @mehdirhasan.bsky.social‬

    The alleged shooter in Michigan. Weird that Vance and Patel haven’t tweeted out this info.

    https://bsky.app/profile/mehdirhasan.bsky.social/post/3lzxbyuovss2v

    So he is pointing out that because of the alleged shooter’s background Vance and Patel can’t be terrible people and use a tragic shooting to make political points in favour of their side and in so doing uses a tragic shooting to make politician points in favour of his own side.

    He probably thinks he has some moral high ground but ultimately this constant game of “your team did a shooting so you are bad” doesn’t make anyone look good because one time it’s the right and another the left so everyone is wrestling in the mud thinking they are cleaner.

    I bet that Hasan was terrified that the alleged shooter might be a trans person or extreme leftist and then the relief when it turns out it’s not makes him feel righteous. The same the other way when the right are desperately hoping it’s not a rightie doing the shooting and when it turns out it’s a lefty, jubilation.
    This guy appears to be a military veteran shooting up a church. Most likely to be someone with a serious mental illness than any political affiliation, as with the vast majority of these incidents in the States.

    The likes of Mehdi Hasan are just trying to be provocative virtue-signallers as usual.
    Just FYI - the fact the right always comes out with "mental illness" is something of a left-wing meme now. You'll need to find something else.
    Being MAGA conservative is a form of mental illness in any case.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,083
    edited September 29
    IanB2 said:

    We need 2029 to be a PR coupon election

    Sadly Labour are just stupid enough to do that. They will see it as a last gasp chance to retain a left of centre majority in Parliament when all it will do is allow more extremist parties even further to the right than Reform a chance to gain MPs.
    STV has an effective threshold of 15% or more; extremist parties to the right of Reform aren’t going to clear that
    That would be why a key strategy of the extremist right is to infiltrate Reform (declared ad nausea). Farage is a horse they want to ride into the mainstream.

    What to do is one of Farage's dilemmas.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,367
    The Whitehouse Press Secretary posted this

    @axios

    Study: Left-wing terrorism climbs to 30-year high

    https://x.com/axios/status/1972294700280250758

    Just, don't actually look at the graph...




  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,296
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another day, and yet more russian infrastructure on fire.

    Belgorod this time.

    https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1972339228299362780

    Speculation that this was a HIMARS missile attack on Belgorod, which if confirmed will be the first known use of the American-made missile in Russia, something which until now they had been denied permission to do by the Americans.

    https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1972386258795352523

    Are we starting to see some good come from the NATO sideline meetings at the UN last week? There’s no way that the Russians aren’t going to see an American-made missile hitting Russia as a severe provocation.

    Edit: It might get even better.
    JD Vance: We’ll sell Tomahawks for Ukraine.
    https://x.com/mylovanov/status/1972361465807110564
    This is a much longer-range system than HIMARS, puts Moscow well within reach from Ukraine.
    That might even get some Democrats to go "tilt"

    While Tomahawk is now now nuclear, there used to be a nuclear version. Which put it in various arms control categories. IIRC that was why they weren't sold to Israel. Chucking them in the direction of Russia would be seen as extra provocative.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,669
    'You'll never need to work again': Criminals offer reporter money to hack BBC

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w5n903447o
    Like many things in the shadowy world of cyber-crime, an insider threat is something very few people have experience of.
    Even fewer people want to talk about it.
    But I was given a unique and worrying experience of how hackers can leverage insiders when I myself was recently propositioned by a criminal gang.
    "If you are interested, we can offer you 15% of any ransom payment if you give us access to your PC."
    That was the message I received out of the blue from someone called Syndicate who pinged me in July on the encrypted chat app Signal.
    I had no idea who this person was but instantly knew what it was about.
    I was being offered a portion of a potentially large amount of money if I helped cyber criminals access BBC systems through my laptop.
    They would steal data or install malicious software and hold my employer to ransom and I would secretly get a cut.
    I had heard stories about this kind of thing.
    In fact, only a few days before the unsolicited message, news emerged from Brazil that an IT worker there had been arrested for selling his login details to hackers which police say led to the loss of $100m (£74m) for the banking victim.
    I decided to play along with Syndicate after taking advice from a senior BBC editor. I was eager to see how criminals make these shady deals with potentially treacherous employees at a time when cyber-attacks around the world are becoming more impactful and disruptive to everyday life.
    I told Syn, who had changed their name mid-conversation, that I was potentially interested but needed to know how it works.
    They explained that if I gave them my login details and security code then they would hack the BBC and then extort the corporation for a ransom in bitcoin. I would be in line for a portion of that payout.
    They upped their offer.
    "We aren't sure how much the BBC pays you but what if you took 25% of the final negotiation as we extract 1% of the BBC's total revenue? You wouldn't need to work ever again."..
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,214

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another day, and yet more russian infrastructure on fire.

    Belgorod this time.

    https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1972339228299362780

    Speculation that this was a HIMARS missile attack on Belgorod, which if confirmed will be the first known use of the American-made missile in Russia, something which until now they had been denied permission to do by the Americans.

    https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1972386258795352523

    Are we starting to see some good come from the NATO sideline meetings at the UN last week? There’s no way that the Russians aren’t going to see an American-made missile hitting Russia as a severe provocation.

    Edit: It might get even better.
    JD Vance: We’ll sell Tomahawks for Ukraine.
    https://x.com/mylovanov/status/1972361465807110564
    This is a much longer-range system than HIMARS, puts Moscow well within reach from Ukraine.
    That might even get some Democrats to go "tilt"

    While Tomahawk is now now nuclear, there used to be a nuclear version. Which put it in various arms control categories. IIRC that was why they weren't sold to Israel. Chucking them in the direction of Russia would be seen as extra provocative.
    Do we ever get to be “provoked” by, say, Russia sending military drones into NATO countries, or is the provocation risk only one-way?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193
    Nigelb said:

    'You'll never need to work again': Criminals offer reporter money to hack BBC

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w5n903447o
    Like many things in the shadowy world of cyber-crime, an insider threat is something very few people have experience of.
    Even fewer people want to talk about it.
    But I was given a unique and worrying experience of how hackers can leverage insiders when I myself was recently propositioned by a criminal gang.
    "If you are interested, we can offer you 15% of any ransom payment if you give us access to your PC."
    That was the message I received out of the blue from someone called Syndicate who pinged me in July on the encrypted chat app Signal.
    I had no idea who this person was but instantly knew what it was about.
    I was being offered a portion of a potentially large amount of money if I helped cyber criminals access BBC systems through my laptop.
    They would steal data or install malicious software and hold my employer to ransom and I would secretly get a cut.
    I had heard stories about this kind of thing.
    In fact, only a few days before the unsolicited message, news emerged from Brazil that an IT worker there had been arrested for selling his login details to hackers which police say led to the loss of $100m (£74m) for the banking victim.
    I decided to play along with Syndicate after taking advice from a senior BBC editor. I was eager to see how criminals make these shady deals with potentially treacherous employees at a time when cyber-attacks around the world are becoming more impactful and disruptive to everyday life.
    I told Syn, who had changed their name mid-conversation, that I was potentially interested but needed to know how it works.
    They explained that if I gave them my login details and security code then they would hack the BBC and then extort the corporation for a ransom in bitcoin. I would be in line for a portion of that payout.
    They upped their offer.
    "We aren't sure how much the BBC pays you but what if you took 25% of the final negotiation as we extract 1% of the BBC's total revenue? You wouldn't need to work ever again."..

    So he spoke to “a senior BBC editor”, rather than speaking to the CIO/CISO and involving the police at the first opportunity?

    If you want to play the journalist looking for a good story, you first make damn sure there’s never any real risk to the organisation and have your work cleared right up to the very senior management, while organising everything in a way that gives the authorities the best chance to actually apprehend the perpetrators.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,655
    Off Topic

    Southgate to United?????

    I remember Sir Alf Ramsey to Birmingham City. I expect the outcome will be similar.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,351
    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.

    Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
    I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.

    JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
    I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
    I bought an I suppose fancy watch some time ago and recently took it in to be serviced at the proper store (rather than the place in Piccadilly Circus tube station, or a Timpsons). I had to register and since then I haven been bombarded by (e-)literature about how that particular watch fits into my "collection" and what aspirations I have, wristwatch-wise, about the future. Absolute cock. Although ofc good marketing absolute cock.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,296
    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another day, and yet more russian infrastructure on fire.

    Belgorod this time.

    https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1972339228299362780

    Speculation that this was a HIMARS missile attack on Belgorod, which if confirmed will be the first known use of the American-made missile in Russia, something which until now they had been denied permission to do by the Americans.

    https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1972386258795352523

    Are we starting to see some good come from the NATO sideline meetings at the UN last week? There’s no way that the Russians aren’t going to see an American-made missile hitting Russia as a severe provocation.

    Edit: It might get even better.
    JD Vance: We’ll sell Tomahawks for Ukraine.
    https://x.com/mylovanov/status/1972361465807110564
    This is a much longer-range system than HIMARS, puts Moscow well within reach from Ukraine.
    That might even get some Democrats to go "tilt"

    While Tomahawk is now now nuclear, there used to be a nuclear version. Which put it in various arms control categories. IIRC that was why they weren't sold to Israel. Chucking them in the direction of Russia would be seen as extra provocative.
    Do we ever get to be “provoked” by, say, Russia sending military drones into NATO countries, or is the provocation risk only one-way?
    Yes.

    Personally, I would be mildly irritating in response.


  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,948
    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.

    Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
    I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.

    JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
    I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
    The only time a cheap watch annoyed me was when it stopped working right after I'd put in a new strap.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193

    It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.

    But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.

    One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.

    It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.

    I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
    Yes, car list prices have gone up a lot in recent years, and the spike in interest rates a couple of years ago has made many new deals totally unaffordable on a like-for-like basis.

    Why your average Joe leases a new car will remain a total mystery to me, it’s totally dead money as the depreciation is horrific for those first three or four years. It’s understandable for a company car, but totally mad for a personal one.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,296
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    'You'll never need to work again': Criminals offer reporter money to hack BBC

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w5n903447o
    Like many things in the shadowy world of cyber-crime, an insider threat is something very few people have experience of.
    Even fewer people want to talk about it.
    But I was given a unique and worrying experience of how hackers can leverage insiders when I myself was recently propositioned by a criminal gang.
    "If you are interested, we can offer you 15% of any ransom payment if you give us access to your PC."
    That was the message I received out of the blue from someone called Syndicate who pinged me in July on the encrypted chat app Signal.
    I had no idea who this person was but instantly knew what it was about.
    I was being offered a portion of a potentially large amount of money if I helped cyber criminals access BBC systems through my laptop.
    They would steal data or install malicious software and hold my employer to ransom and I would secretly get a cut.
    I had heard stories about this kind of thing.
    In fact, only a few days before the unsolicited message, news emerged from Brazil that an IT worker there had been arrested for selling his login details to hackers which police say led to the loss of $100m (£74m) for the banking victim.
    I decided to play along with Syndicate after taking advice from a senior BBC editor. I was eager to see how criminals make these shady deals with potentially treacherous employees at a time when cyber-attacks around the world are becoming more impactful and disruptive to everyday life.
    I told Syn, who had changed their name mid-conversation, that I was potentially interested but needed to know how it works.
    They explained that if I gave them my login details and security code then they would hack the BBC and then extort the corporation for a ransom in bitcoin. I would be in line for a portion of that payout.
    They upped their offer.
    "We aren't sure how much the BBC pays you but what if you took 25% of the final negotiation as we extract 1% of the BBC's total revenue? You wouldn't need to work ever again."..

    So he spoke to “a senior BBC editor”, rather than speaking to the CIO/CISO and involving the police at the first opportunity?

    If you want to play the journalist looking for a good story, you first make damn sure there’s never any real risk to the organisation and have your work cleared right up to the very senior management, while organising everything in a way that gives the authorities the best chance to actually apprehend the perpetrators.
    And formal sign off and formalised monitoring of any exchanges.

    Especially since, if there was a hack, the police will be looking at you. And senior management in large organisation has absolutely no track record of throwing employees overboard. None whatsoever.
  • It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.

    But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.

    One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.

    It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.

    I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
    Isn't that also the case for credit card debt, mortgages, overdrafts etc? Is car financing particularly expensive by comparison? (I bought my car 10 years ago for cash, so it's not a ubject i have ever paid any attention to.)
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,432
    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.

    Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
    I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.

    JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
    I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
    Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,351
    Stocky said:

    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    I am about to spend a day in London and I'm not takiung any cash with me.

    Just the two grand phone, the ten grand watch, the fancy shoes and the sharp suit…
    I am slumming it today, just the £1,500 watch, Watch Ultra 3 Hermès.

    JohnO and myself are off to our regular working man’s venue for lunch, Claridge’s.
    I never understood the joy in expensive watches. For any human purposes, my £5 Chinese watch is just as accurate as one 300 times the price. And if I lose it - which I do, frequently - it causes me only very minor vexation. I can wear it in a mosh pit, or in bed, or on the beach, or on a bike ride, without any anxiety whatsoever.
    Having a phone, why is there a need for a watch at all? I haven't worn one for years.
    Quite a sedentary type, are you?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,986

    It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.

    But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.

    One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.

    It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.

    I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
    I think there is something to this. I don't understand how my neighbours can afford all these BMWs and Audis, when we have the need for a new car as significant financial risk even with a household income in the top 5%. A like-for-like replacement is going to be about £10,000 - something we can afford but that's a large chunk of our savings gone.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,192
    edited September 29
    I'm surprised the government don't employ some of the brightest and best from advertising. To get such poor scores from things which the public have no idea about is just negligent. The principle isn't difficult. You find out what your target market consider important and then you creatively present what the goverment is doing or planning to do in that area. Wasting time on voters who think you are 'evil' is wasted energy. They are not your target market. Just concentrate on those whose views are broadly in line with your offereings. Even if you have to tell your target market that we are going down the toilet. Make it sound like an interesting journey......


  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,065

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    'You'll never need to work again': Criminals offer reporter money to hack BBC

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w5n903447o
    Like many things in the shadowy world of cyber-crime, an insider threat is something very few people have experience of.
    Even fewer people want to talk about it.
    But I was given a unique and worrying experience of how hackers can leverage insiders when I myself was recently propositioned by a criminal gang.
    "If you are interested, we can offer you 15% of any ransom payment if you give us access to your PC."
    That was the message I received out of the blue from someone called Syndicate who pinged me in July on the encrypted chat app Signal.
    I had no idea who this person was but instantly knew what it was about.
    I was being offered a portion of a potentially large amount of money if I helped cyber criminals access BBC systems through my laptop.
    They would steal data or install malicious software and hold my employer to ransom and I would secretly get a cut.
    I had heard stories about this kind of thing.
    In fact, only a few days before the unsolicited message, news emerged from Brazil that an IT worker there had been arrested for selling his login details to hackers which police say led to the loss of $100m (£74m) for the banking victim.
    I decided to play along with Syndicate after taking advice from a senior BBC editor. I was eager to see how criminals make these shady deals with potentially treacherous employees at a time when cyber-attacks around the world are becoming more impactful and disruptive to everyday life.
    I told Syn, who had changed their name mid-conversation, that I was potentially interested but needed to know how it works.
    They explained that if I gave them my login details and security code then they would hack the BBC and then extort the corporation for a ransom in bitcoin. I would be in line for a portion of that payout.
    They upped their offer.
    "We aren't sure how much the BBC pays you but what if you took 25% of the final negotiation as we extract 1% of the BBC's total revenue? You wouldn't need to work ever again."..

    So he spoke to “a senior BBC editor”, rather than speaking to the CIO/CISO and involving the police at the first opportunity?

    If you want to play the journalist looking for a good story, you first make damn sure there’s never any real risk to the organisation and have your work cleared right up to the very senior management, while organising everything in a way that gives the authorities the best chance to actually apprehend the perpetrators.
    And formal sign off and formalised monitoring of any exchanges.

    Especially since, if there was a hack, the police will be looking at you. And senior management in large organisation has absolutely no track record of throwing employees overboard. None whatsoever.
    I assume the “senior editor” took him to see the CIO/legal (otherwise they would be exposed in any investigation as well) and they weren’t mentioned in the story because doing the right thing doesn’t make for good copy.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,351

    It's the economy (stupid), because it usually is. And there have been a couple of years now where wages have grown faster than prices. But as long as most people have more month than money, they are going to be understandably unhappy.

    But to a very large degree, that's out of the government's hands to fix, in the short term anyway. We can shuffle how things are paid for, but they will largely cost what they cost.

    One interesting suggestion that I've come across recently is that PCP car financing explains why people are angrier than ever about the cost of living even though wages have grown faster than prices, and even though the large number of new cars about would suggest a healthy level of prosperity.

    It has enabled people to buy cars that they previously wouldn't have been able to afford - but really they still can't afford them, and so they're struggling to make ends meet because of the millstone of car finance.

    I haven't interrogated the idea to see if the numbers stack up, but it suggests a way forward for the government to help square the circle. Increase regulation of car financing to save people from immiserating themselves spending beyond their means, and although this will mean more people have to make do with a lower status motor, they will end up happier when they can more easily reach the end of the month with the money previously being spent on finance for the car they couldn't afford.
    Yep. One of my long-standing PB bugbears and rants. How come there are 25-plate Rangeys parked outside (no offence) bog standard municipal housing or in the drive of a very modest semi.

    I suppose £425/month for five years (having paid £5-10k at the beginning and end) somehow makes people think it's affordable.

    To say nothing of rates today.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,791
    Scott_xP said:

    The Whitehouse Press Secretary posted this

    @axios

    Study: Left-wing terrorism climbs to 30-year high

    https://x.com/axios/status/1972294700280250758

    Just, don't actually look at the graph...




    Depends on the definition of 'Left Wing' of course. And who is doing the defining.


    And Good Morning one and all!
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425
    Got to say when TSE said the Tories were at risk of polling fifth, he ignored the very strong possibility that it will be Labour getting there first...

    While I believe ID cards offer a whole set of benefits (as shown by the Lib Dems agreeing) I wouldn't be surprised in seeing some Labour voters switching Green...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    'You'll never need to work again': Criminals offer reporter money to hack BBC

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w5n903447o
    Like many things in the shadowy world of cyber-crime, an insider threat is something very few people have experience of.
    Even fewer people want to talk about it.
    But I was given a unique and worrying experience of how hackers can leverage insiders when I myself was recently propositioned by a criminal gang.
    "If you are interested, we can offer you 15% of any ransom payment if you give us access to your PC."
    That was the message I received out of the blue from someone called Syndicate who pinged me in July on the encrypted chat app Signal.
    I had no idea who this person was but instantly knew what it was about.
    I was being offered a portion of a potentially large amount of money if I helped cyber criminals access BBC systems through my laptop.
    They would steal data or install malicious software and hold my employer to ransom and I would secretly get a cut.
    I had heard stories about this kind of thing.
    In fact, only a few days before the unsolicited message, news emerged from Brazil that an IT worker there had been arrested for selling his login details to hackers which police say led to the loss of $100m (£74m) for the banking victim.
    I decided to play along with Syndicate after taking advice from a senior BBC editor. I was eager to see how criminals make these shady deals with potentially treacherous employees at a time when cyber-attacks around the world are becoming more impactful and disruptive to everyday life.
    I told Syn, who had changed their name mid-conversation, that I was potentially interested but needed to know how it works.
    They explained that if I gave them my login details and security code then they would hack the BBC and then extort the corporation for a ransom in bitcoin. I would be in line for a portion of that payout.
    They upped their offer.
    "We aren't sure how much the BBC pays you but what if you took 25% of the final negotiation as we extract 1% of the BBC's total revenue? You wouldn't need to work ever again."..

    So he spoke to “a senior BBC editor”, rather than speaking to the CIO/CISO and involving the police at the first opportunity?

    If you want to play the journalist looking for a good story, you first make damn sure there’s never any real risk to the organisation and have your work cleared right up to the very senior management, while organising everything in a way that gives the authorities the best chance to actually apprehend the perpetrators.
    And formal sign off and formalised monitoring of any exchanges.

    Especially since, if there was a hack, the police will be looking at you. And senior management in large organisation has absolutely no track record of throwing employees overboard. None whatsoever.
    Hell yeah, you’d want every T crossed and every I dotted by the organisation as a whole, having carried out a clear risk assessment and with plans in place were it all to go wrong, before saying any more than hello to someone who’s representing himself as a hacker trying to extort them.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,285
    IanB2 said:

    We need 2029 to be a PR coupon election

    Sadly Labour are just stupid enough to do that. They will see it as a last gasp chance to retain a left of centre majority in Parliament when all it will do is allow more extremist parties even further to the right than Reform a chance to gain MPs.
    STV has an effective threshold of 15% or more; extremist parties to the right of Reform aren’t going to clear that
    People Before Profit-Solidarity were the party grouping at the Irish general election with the lowest share of the vote who still won some TDs, because their vote was sufficiently concentrated in some seats, with particular candidates. They had 3 TDs elected on a national first preference share of 2.84%

    STV will make it easier for fringe parties to win minute representation in the legislature, but it also makes it impossible for minority opinion (say a 34% vote share) to win a landslide majority.

    When Britain is run by a majority Reform government with Farage as PM, after winning the support of less than a third of the vote, the argument that PR risks empowering the extreme right will ring a little hollow.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,655
    edited September 29
    Roger said:

    I'm surprised the government don't employ some of the brightest and best from advertising. To get such poor scores from things which the public have no idea about is just negligent. The principle isn't difficult. You find out what your target market consider important and then you creatively present what the goverment is doing or planning to do in that area. Wasting time on voters who think you are 'evil' is wasted energy. They are not your target market. They never will be. Just concentrate on those whose views are broadly in line with your offereings. Even if you have to tell your target market that we are going down the toilet. Make it sound like an interesting journey so you take them with you......


    I am not sure advertising talent is what it was in your day.

    Radio ads are dreadful "Pets in a Pickle" is my least favourite, and we don't have TV ads of the quality of the Smash aliens any more. My favourite ad from the eighties was an Adam West lookalike Batman crime fighting in an Austin Metro to avoid Gotham City traffic congestion.

    https://youtu.be/CwzHLm_1ar0?si=3iKnyAVxqBIcCoMl
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