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Will this impact Reform’s chances in the Senedd? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,711
edited September 27 in General
Will this impact Reform’s chances in the Senedd? – politicalbetting.com

The Reform UK party's former leader in Wales – Nathan Gill – has pleaded guilty to eight counts of bribery relating to pro-Russia statements he made in the European Parliament, as well as newspaper opinion pieces. pic.twitter.com/pR0026UJ7R

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Comments

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,229
    QTWTAIN
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,901
    Probably not.
  • I do not see it having any effect in Wales

    Indeed Starmer running scared of forthcoming Senedd election in Caerphilly

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/keir-starmer-no-plans-visit-32558918
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,782
    edited September 27
    A morning change of thread coinciding with my posts, again.

    FPT, in response to questions on the ID database issue :

    I must say that I wouldn't agree with that.

    Whar do we have.? A ckear push from the government to make Britain an AI hub, and accompanying contracts in the public sector to companies that develop both AI and large-scale data integration, with the former depending on the latter.

    We have the quotes in the Byline Times article from yesterday, and Glasman coming away from being schmoozed by Thiel at Trump"s inauguration, saying, "I want fucking AI everything. A national system draped in the Union Jack." And Starmer's special visit to Palantir in February, where they were quoted as saying "He gets it, he has the will".

    None of this inspires confidence that Palantir either aren't being lined up for the main contract, or as is likely in any case, will have wide access to its data through the contracts they're racking up across the public sector, for their key function of data mining A.I.
  • Isn't it in the nature of Reform supporters to ignore what they don't want to know about? 'It's all a onspiracy and if he is a crook, he is at least our kind of crook.'

    In this respect at least the Party truly represents the British wing of the MAGA movement.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    Putin has been manipulating and buying our politicians for years with his dirty money and troll farms.

    Nobody has cared before, so why should Gill matter?

  • Should Refukker voters switch to the party led by three successive PMs who met with the wife of Putins finance minister in exchange for hundreds of thousands, with Putin linked funding totalling around £2m?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,219

    Isn't it in the nature of Reform supporters to ignore what they don't want to know about? 'It's all a onspiracy and if he is a crook, he is at least our kind of crook.'

    In this respect at least the Party truly represents the British wing of the MAGA movement.

    The important thing is they hate the same people their supporters hate.

    In this case, those people evidently don’t include the Russian government.
  • Isn't it in the nature of Reform supporters to ignore what they don't want to know about? 'It's all a onspiracy and if he is a crook, he is at least our kind of crook.'

    In this respect at least the Party truly represents the British wing of the MAGA movement.

    That might be the nature of the hardcore supporters but we are now talking about the millions of swing voters. Reform can't win without getting their support as well.
  • algarkirk said:

    Off topic and returning to a discussion a couple of days ago about detective stories using recently created graves as a hiding place for additional corpses, try Dorothy L Sayers 1934 masterpiece, The Nine Tailors.

    It has the additional merit of portraying wonderfully a rural world (Lincolnshire, Norfolk, Cambridgeshire border) which is both just within living memory, and as vanished as dinosaurs.

    Cheers. Being a big fan of the interwar setting for novels and also living in Lincolnshire I shall look it up.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425
    Farage’s problem is going to be that he used to happily take money (and make a fool of himself) on Russia Today - I.e. Putin’s propaganda channel


  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,000
    I think it could. Reform's vote is mainly their voters from 2024 and NOTA. To win big they either need to suppress support for the other parties, or start to persuade them to switch sides. Stuff like this has the opposite effect.

    It's the steady drip drip of anti-vaxxer, Taliban Tax, deporting pensioners, Russian influence, NHS privatisation that will have a cumulative effect. But only the Lib Dems are going in two-footed at the moment - I think Lab/Con need to do the same.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    edited September 27

    Isn't it in the nature of Reform supporters to ignore what they don't want to know about? 'It's all a onspiracy and if he is a crook, he is at least our kind of crook.'

    In this respect at least the Party truly represents the British wing of the MAGA movement.

    It's quite funny really. When slapped in the face by a real conspiracy the conspiracists ignore it so they can go down a rabbit hole about Tylenol.
  • Isn't it in the nature of Reform supporters to ignore what they don't want to know about? 'It's all a onspiracy and if he is a crook, he is at least our kind of crook.'

    In this respect at least the Party truly represents the British wing of the MAGA movement.

    That might be the nature of the hardcore supporters but we are now talking about the millions of swing voters. Reform can't win without getting their support as well.
    Indeed. And Labour have to fix some stuff quickly. It can be done, but suspect they will be too timid and slow.

    If nothings fixed Reform win through exasperation not because people particularly like, trust or believe them.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,634

    Isn't it in the nature of Reform supporters to ignore what they don't want to know about? 'It's all a onspiracy and if he is a crook, he is at least our kind of crook.'

    In this respect at least the Party truly represents the British wing of the MAGA movement.

    Or a walking/talking Sandwich board for the Daily Mail (having ousted the Conservatives in that role)
  • eek said:

    Farage’s problem is going to be that he used to happily take money (and make a fool of himself) on Russia Today - I.e. Putin’s propaganda channel


    Doesn't really wash given that at the time our own leaders were telling us that Putin was the bright future of Russia in Europe.

    I mean yes you are right. But no party is going to be able to sustain that argument against Reform for more than 5 minutes.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,025
    We still don’t know what Johnson was up to - when actually serving as British PM - giving his security the slip and going off to meet that Russian oligarch in his Italian villa. I’d imagine MI6 know, and it will all come out one day.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,741
    On topic: I agree with the poster on the previous thread (not sure who, sorry) who says that Starmer describing Reform as an 'enemy' makes uncomfortable reading.

    However, there does come a tipping point. For example I would have no qualms describing Trump as the enemy of America - he is clearly inimicable to their interests, whether democratically elected or not.

    The former leader of the party in Wales being in hock to Russia is in no way equivalent, but it contributes (in a small way) to a narrative that Reform are serving masters other than the British people. I strongly suspect that this narrative will prove to be true over the course of time, and that Reform will turn out to be our enemies.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,229
    Eabhal said:

    I think it could. Reform's vote is mainly their voters from 2024 and NOTA. To win big they either need to suppress support for the other parties, or start to persuade them to switch sides. Stuff like this has the opposite effect.

    It's the steady drip drip of anti-vaxxer, Taliban Tax, deporting pensioners, Russian influence, NHS privatisation that will have a cumulative effect. But only the Lib Dems are going in two-footed at the moment - I think Lab/Con need to do the same.

    I’m not sure that there are too many Reform backers who think the party is a hotbed of competence or integrity. It is a vote in desperation at how poorly and corruptly the country has been run for 20 years.

    Such an electoral strategy would mostly achieve two things. A higher share for NOTA. Or a different protest vote further along the Overton window. Or possibly the first, followed next time by the second.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,071
    edited September 27
    IanB2 said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Fingerprints and a €20 fee – the new rules for visiting Europe explained
    From October 12, Britons will face new rules to visit Europe under the EES and ETIAS schemes – here’s everything you need to know
    Nick Trend"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/advice/new-eu-entry-exit-visa-system-rules/?recomm_id=991741f2-d8bf-4d1f-8162-aeea13b8db16

    EUR100 on the cost of a family holiday... Brexit really is the gift that keeps on giving.
    Once every 3 years - it’s hardly a massive issue
    Small beer compared to the £100-250 pet owners, who haven’t wangled a pet passport from an EU country, are having to pay each time they take their pet abroad.

    The government press release heralding Labour’s May 2025 deal significantly oversold what had been achieved, stating that pet passports "will" be coming back, making pet travel easier for GB pet owners - raising expectations, when the truth is that the agreement with the EU is merely a "shared objective", with all of the negotiations on the detailed implementation still to be done. Since the May announcement there hasn’t been a dickie of further info about process, progress or timescales, with rumours suggesting that even if things go well, nothing will change until late 2026 at the earliest - leaving a lot of people frustrated at what should have been a good news story for the government.
    All Starmer's deals that don't involve the UK giving away billions are pounds have so far actually been deals about forming a working group to investigate the possibility of writing a draft agreement to negotiate on at a later date...

    US deal most things are still up in the air. By the time the UK gets in the EU defence procurement scheme, all the money will have been given out to the French and German companies, etc. One In One Out is a pilot at a rate of about 4 out a week that will require renegotiating again after 12 months.

    He really is Mr "Empty Desk".
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,949
    Sandpit said:

    As someone living in a country with ID cards, let’s just say that the big database is entirely the point, and that something intended for very limited use quickly becomes ubiquitous for every interaction with the both the State, and any number of private companies.

    Yes, if I lived in the UK I’d be signing the petition opposing them.

    But aren't you reassured by how brilliantly the Online Safety Act was drafted?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543
    In other news:

    "A 13-year-old boy has been arrested after three cyclists and an elderly pedestrian were allegedly hit by a vehicle in four separate incidents in Lincolnshire that police believe are linked."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wdxepn0keo
  • algarkirk said:

    Off topic and returning to a discussion a couple of days ago about detective stories using recently created graves as a hiding place for additional corpses, try Dorothy L Sayers 1934 masterpiece, The Nine Tailors.

    It has the additional merit of portraying wonderfully a rural world (Lincolnshire, Norfolk, Cambridgeshire border) which is both just within living memory, and as vanished as dinosaurs.

    A paradox in the 1930s was people driving around in cars searching for unspoiled, merrie England, and in so doing hastening its demise. In search of England by HV Morton being the classic example.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,229
    IanB2 said:

    We still don’t know what Johnson was up to - when actually serving as British PM - giving his security the slip and going off to meet that Russian oligarch in his Italian villa. I’d imagine MI6 know, and it will all come out one day.

    The theory that Boris was in bed with the Russians is a strange one. Among the core powers, he was initially a remarkably lone voice in powerfully fighting Ukraine’s corner. I have directly heard it this month that when the war eventually ends, British contractors will be welcomed with open arms in Ukraine, and that Brits “will never understand just how many lives they saved” in 2022.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,192
    Everyone believes Reform are made up of crooks chancers and Nazis. I don't think this'll make a huge difference. I'm just waiting for the giant implosion which for maximum effect should happen in 2028
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,684
    He was also being payed by Putin while a UKIP MP advocating for Brexit, which gives a fair indication of Putin's keenness to see us leave the EU.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,584

    algarkirk said:

    Off topic and returning to a discussion a couple of days ago about detective stories using recently created graves as a hiding place for additional corpses, try Dorothy L Sayers 1934 masterpiece, The Nine Tailors.

    It has the additional merit of portraying wonderfully a rural world (Lincolnshire, Norfolk, Cambridgeshire border) which is both just within living memory, and as vanished as dinosaurs.

    Cheers. Being a big fan of the interwar setting for novels and also living in Lincolnshire I shall look it up.
    DLS doesn't give dates directly, but from internal evidence, which is very precise and accurate and includes the liturgical calendar, the action starts at about 4 pm on 31st December 1929.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,000

    In other news:

    "A 13-year-old boy has been arrested after three cyclists and an elderly pedestrian were allegedly hit by a vehicle in four separate incidents in Lincolnshire that police believe are linked."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wdxepn0keo

    I saw that too. Under the influence of drugs. Just made me very sad for everyone involved.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,396
    edited September 27
    If I am entirely honest:

    1) No, because Welsh Labour has plenty of people who've been taking the Russian shilling for years including at least one in the current cabinet whom I won't name;

    2) Even if that weren't true, I kind of hope it doesn't:, because Reform are repellent, but if ever a party needed turfing from government it's Welsh Labour and I think Reform are the only party that can do it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,071
    edited September 27
    Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television. Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed-interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked-up brats you have spawned to replace yourselves. Choose your future....

    I choose patriotic renewal.
    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1971681627198968019

    The remake of Trainspotting doesn't sound very good.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543
    Eabhal said:

    In other news:

    "A 13-year-old boy has been arrested after three cyclists and an elderly pedestrian were allegedly hit by a vehicle in four separate incidents in Lincolnshire that police believe are linked."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wdxepn0keo

    I saw that too. Under the influence of drugs. Just made me very sad for everyone involved.
    Should be attempted murder. Won't be, because of his age.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,192
    Columbian President is having his visa revoked for talking to a pro Palestinian event in New York. Any bets that the next UN event will be moved to Geneva?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,684
    Sandpit said:

    As someone living in a country with ID cards, let’s just say that the big database is entirely the point, and that something intended for very limited use quickly becomes ubiquitous for every interaction with the both the State, and any number of private companies.

    Yes, if I lived in the UK I’d be signing the petition opposing them.

    I posted this last night.

    Good thread on ID cards.
    Why don't we have legislators/civil servants who can understand and explain this, and legislate accordingly ?

    1/ I don’t instinctively like the idea of ID cards. It offends my liberal sensibilities. But Digital IDs aren’t the privacy catastrophe they would have been in the 2000s...
    https://x.com/LawrenceLundy/status/1971543613868998952

    7/ “Done right” is doing a lot of heavy lifting yes. Of course, the devil is in design. A “canonical event log” of every check could easily tip into surveillance. Guardrails are needed around logs, retention, transparency reports.

    8/ Citizens need three guarantees:
    – Share less, prove more.
    – No new central database.
    – Errors are visible and appealable...


    That means NOT giving the contract to Palantir, of course.

    I don't have much confidence that we'll follow those principles.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,845
    Roger said:

    Everyone believes Reform are made up of crooks chancers and Nazis. I don't think this'll make a huge difference. I'm just waiting for the giant implosion which for maximum effect should happen in 2028

    Not sure everyone does think that, but believe it if you like.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,782
    edited September 27
    The most striking Russian connection with Boris is that Lebedev was with them on the socials evening that Gove and Johnson decided to back Brexit.

    That, and Putin personally congratulating his London ambassador of the time, who in his turn had been very effusive about Johnson's ennobling of his chum, Lebedev.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,025
    edited September 27
    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    We still don’t know what Johnson was up to - when actually serving as British PM - giving his security the slip and going off to meet that Russian oligarch in his Italian villa. I’d imagine MI6 know, and it will all come out one day.

    The theory that Boris was in bed with the Russians is a strange one. Among the core powers, he was initially a remarkably lone voice in powerfully fighting Ukraine’s corner. I have directly heard it this month that when the war eventually ends, British contractors will be welcomed with open arms in Ukraine, and that Brits “will never understand just how many lives they saved” in 2022.
    He put that Russian guy in the Lords, against security services advice, he gave his security the slip to go meet the oligarch alone in Italy, he suppressed publication of an independent report into Russian links and influence on our politics. That he was alert enough to reverse ferret and back Ukraine once it was clear Russia was destined to be this century’s bad guy doesn’t erase what went before.

    At the same time, our own low IQ sage was trying to persuade us that Putin was the savour of western civilisation.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,684

    eek said:

    Farage’s problem is going to be that he used to happily take money (and make a fool of himself) on Russia Today - I.e. Putin’s propaganda channel


    Doesn't really wash given that at the time our own leaders were telling us that Putin was the bright future of Russia in Europe.

    I mean yes you are right. But no party is going to be able to sustain that argument against Reform for more than 5 minutes.
    I don't recall them doing this.
    ..Mrs Justice Cheema-Grubb told the court: "Nathan Gill has admitted having asked questions, made statements and carried out other activities in or connected with the European Parliament in support of pro-Russian parties in the Ukraine conflict."..
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,845
  • Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television. Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed-interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked-up brats you have spawned to replace yourselves. Choose your future....

    I choose patriotic renewal.
    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1971681627198968019

    The remake of Trainspotting doesn't sound very good.

    No more Catholics left!

    I still maintain the nightclub scene from Trainspotting 2 is one of cinema's finest scenes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,684
    Sandpit said:

    As someone living in a country with ID cards, let’s just say that the big database is entirely the point, and that something intended for very limited use quickly becomes ubiquitous for every interaction with the both the State, and any number of private companies.

    Yes, if I lived in the UK I’d be signing the petition opposing them.

    Also, this.
    This argument doesn't convince me because, and there are a lot of similar replies, the current system is just as open to future misuse. The important friction against more malicious government data joining isn't that the joins are hard. It's that our laws and norms oppose them.
    https://x.com/thomasforth/status/1971509741836009832
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,000

    Eabhal said:

    In other news:

    "A 13-year-old boy has been arrested after three cyclists and an elderly pedestrian were allegedly hit by a vehicle in four separate incidents in Lincolnshire that police believe are linked."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wdxepn0keo

    I saw that too. Under the influence of drugs. Just made me very sad for everyone involved.
    Should be attempted murder. Won't be, because of his age.
    If it were a knife rather than a two-tonne SUV then it would be a much more serious charge, even for a 13-year old. I think it's classic two-tier motoring offending rather than age.

    But a drugged up 13-year old? Grim.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,214
    Eabhal said:

    In other news:

    "A 13-year-old boy has been arrested after three cyclists and an elderly pedestrian were allegedly hit by a vehicle in four separate incidents in Lincolnshire that police believe are linked."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wdxepn0keo

    I saw that too. Under the influence of drugs. Just made me very sad for everyone involved.
    He’s probably the real victim then.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,845
    FPT
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Petition now up to 1.2 million, still running at more than 1,000 signups per minute

    Now 1.3 million.
    While the extent of public concern isn’t a surprise, that people are signing up at such a rate today indicates it’s being pushed in a professional and very effective way - I wonder how and where?
    Does anyone agree with this? I think the signing of the petition is just ordinary people taking part, nothing professional about it.
  • Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Petition now up to 1.2 million, still running at more than 1,000 signups per minute

    Now 1.3 million.
    While the extent of public concern isn’t a surprise, that people are signing up at such a rate today indicates it’s being pushed in a professional and very effective way - I wonder how and where?
    Does anyone agree with this? I think the signing of the petition is just ordinary people taking part, nothing professional about it.
    Yes, I am getting targeted ads to sign this petition, it's not organic.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,061

    Isn't it in the nature of Reform supporters to ignore what they don't want to know about? 'It's all a onspiracy and if he is a crook, he is at least our kind of crook.'

    In this respect at least the Party truly represents the British wing of the MAGA movement.

    That might be the nature of the hardcore supporters but we are now talking about the millions of swing voters. Reform can't win without getting their support as well.
    That's true, but it seems to me that huge swathes of generally non-political people are cheesed off with all the traditional parties.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543
    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    We still don’t know what Johnson was up to - when actually serving as British PM - giving his security the slip and going off to meet that Russian oligarch in his Italian villa. I’d imagine MI6 know, and it will all come out one day.

    The theory that Boris was in bed with the Russians is a strange one. Among the core powers, he was initially a remarkably lone voice in powerfully fighting Ukraine’s corner. I have directly heard it this month that when the war eventually ends, British contractors will be welcomed with open arms in Ukraine, and that Brits “will never understand just how many lives they saved” in 2022.
    *If* Boris was in Russia's pay, then they got a really, really bad deal out of it.

    Whereas they've got a really good deal out of Farage and his chums.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,637

    Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television. Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed-interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked-up brats you have spawned to replace yourselves. Choose your future....

    I choose patriotic renewal.
    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1971681627198968019

    The remake of Trainspotting doesn't sound very good.

    No more Catholics left!

    I still maintain the nightclub scene from Trainspotting 2 is one of cinema's finest scenes.
    It is hilarious, and so far as I can tell, both unionists and nationalists find it hilarious.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,298
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    In other news:

    "A 13-year-old boy has been arrested after three cyclists and an elderly pedestrian were allegedly hit by a vehicle in four separate incidents in Lincolnshire that police believe are linked."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wdxepn0keo

    I saw that too. Under the influence of drugs. Just made me very sad for everyone involved.
    Should be attempted murder. Won't be, because of his age.
    If it were a knife rather than a two-tonne SUV then it would be a much more serious charge, even for a 13-year old. I think it's classic two-tier motoring offending rather than age.

    But a drugged up 13-year old? Grim.
    I tent may be the issue here. We could do with something like "reckless endangerment" for people who do something incredibly stupid that is likely to kill people. It all hinges on whether you do actually injure or kill people, which to my mind is the luck of the draw.

    But it is certainly the case that after they brought in death by dangerous driving, because it was hard to get a manslaughter conviction, that they never now prosecute for manslaughter. My view is they should prosecute both and let the jury decide
  • Sean_F said:

    Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television. Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed-interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked-up brats you have spawned to replace yourselves. Choose your future....

    I choose patriotic renewal.
    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1971681627198968019

    The remake of Trainspotting doesn't sound very good.

    No more Catholics left!

    I still maintain the nightclub scene from Trainspotting 2 is one of cinema's finest scenes.
    It is hilarious, and so far as I can tell, both unionists and nationalists find it hilarious.
    You know the sector I work in, it was reported that in Scotland after the release of Trainspotting 2 there was an unusually high number of PIN changes.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,782
    edited September 27
    It's also possible, too, that Johnson's particularly strong stance on Ukraine was connected to a realisation of being partly suckered and schmoozed by people like Lebedev.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Petition now up to 1.2 million, still running at more than 1,000 signups per minute

    Now 1.3 million.
    While the extent of public concern isn’t a surprise, that people are signing up at such a rate today indicates it’s being pushed in a professional and very effective way - I wonder how and where?
    Does anyone agree with this? I think the signing of the petition is just ordinary people taking part, nothing professional about it.
    Yes, I am getting targeted ads to sign this petition, it's not organic.
    And that’s because the plan is to create argument.

    I’ve got to the point where I’ve worked on enough Government projects across Europe to know that our biggest issue is identifying that the person claiming to be Dave is actually Dave and so why one login is so important. And that’s coming anyway folks it’s a long term project being slowly and carefully implemented as new systems are created or old systems are updated.

    So the database already exists - now the question is do you want poorer people in the UK to have limited job opportunities or not
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    In other news:

    "A 13-year-old boy has been arrested after three cyclists and an elderly pedestrian were allegedly hit by a vehicle in four separate incidents in Lincolnshire that police believe are linked."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wdxepn0keo

    I saw that too. Under the influence of drugs. Just made me very sad for everyone involved.
    Should be attempted murder. Won't be, because of his age.
    If it were a knife rather than a two-tonne SUV then it would be a much more serious charge, even for a 13-year old. I think it's classic two-tier motoring offending rather than age.

    But a drugged up 13-year old? Grim.
    IMV it's the fact it wasn't just one event that hurt one, or more, people. It was four separate incidents over a significant period of time. That shows intent.

    (Incidentally, I recently watched a program from a few years back where a young man was interviewed. He claimed to have got on drugs aged 11 or so. Whilst asleep on a sofa at home, someone injected him with (I think) heroin. Grim indeed.)
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,061

    Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television. Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed-interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked-up brats you have spawned to replace yourselves. Choose your future....

    I choose patriotic renewal.
    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1971681627198968019

    The remake of Trainspotting doesn't sound very good.

    That link has no sound for me. Subtitles, but I can't work out who's saying what.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,025
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Petition now up to 1.2 million, still running at more than 1,000 signups per minute

    Now 1.3 million.
    While the extent of public concern isn’t a surprise, that people are signing up at such a rate today indicates it’s being pushed in a professional and very effective way - I wonder how and where?
    Does anyone agree with this? I think the signing of the petition is just ordinary people taking part, nothing professional about it.
    The signup speed is almost unprecedented - no way that happens organically. Most people don’t hang about the parliamentary petitions site, and a mentions on political sites and blogs, or even a mention on R4, wouldn’t generate anything like that level of interest. This is being pushed in a big way by someone.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,741
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    As someone living in a country with ID cards, let’s just say that the big database is entirely the point, and that something intended for very limited use quickly becomes ubiquitous for every interaction with the both the State, and any number of private companies.

    Yes, if I lived in the UK I’d be signing the petition opposing them.

    I posted this last night.

    Good thread on ID cards.
    Why don't we have legislators/civil servants who can understand and explain this, and legislate accordingly ?

    1/ I don’t instinctively like the idea of ID cards. It offends my liberal sensibilities. But Digital IDs aren’t the privacy catastrophe they would have been in the 2000s...
    https://x.com/LawrenceLundy/status/1971543613868998952

    7/ “Done right” is doing a lot of heavy lifting yes. Of course, the devil is in design. A “canonical event log” of every check could easily tip into surveillance. Guardrails are needed around logs, retention, transparency reports.

    8/ Citizens need three guarantees:
    – Share less, prove more.
    – No new central database.
    – Errors are visible and appealable...


    That means NOT giving the contract to Palantir, of course.

    I don't have much confidence that we'll follow those principles.
    Agreed, but if those guarantees were in place I would accept ID cards. That's why I won't sign the petition - it's too blanket anti.

    I suspect that the government is trying to do too many things at once with this (dead cat, performative action on the boats, backroom deals with Palantir to try to curry favour on AI) and that's why they won't put these guarantees in place.

    If ID cards really were about the right to work, it would be easy to put guardrails in place to stop them being just another way that our data gets forcibly transferred into the hands of billionaires.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,298
    maxh said:

    Off topic: I'm not averse to a good moan on here about the state of the education system, so thought I should balance that out with a bit of praise.

    My school had an INSET day yesterday. In times gone by these days would be crammed full of sessions focused on the senior leadership team members' pet projects or fads, which immediately get forgotten because noone has time to implement them.

    Yesterday, aside from an hour where we discussed how to respond to the London riots (we have a very diverse student body) we were trusted to use the day to deal with all the backlog of tasks that always arise in September as a result of the new school year.

    This was a really conscious choice on the school's part to reduce burnout amongst staff. It is something the headteacher has agency over, and is exactly the sort of thing that will stop our school, and the system as a whole, bleeding staff. I managed to pin down my line manager to meet, meaning that I am now enthusiastic about how I can move my role forward over the next few months.

    More importantly, I sorted out an assessment for students that will mean we can make sure they're in the right class to prepare for their GCSEs, and give them and home a month's warning of the assessment, rather than springing it on them. The school's decision to reduce the crap they throw our way will have a tangible positive impact on our students' experience of preparing for their maths GCSE.

    I'm impressed.

    It does seem the start of the school year always takes schools by surprise. Reminds me of the finance department at the quangos where I used to work, who were always taken by surprise by the end of the financial year.

    A friend who is a teacher at a sixth form was complaining that they were dragged in to do enrolment which they could quite happy do from home. If they had taken the opportunity to do something like you describe, or even have an all-staff meeting, then I could understand it, but no, everyone just had to find somewhere to log onto their laptop and do their enrolment tasks individually
  • Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Farage’s problem is going to be that he used to happily take money (and make a fool of himself) on Russia Today - I.e. Putin’s propaganda channel


    Doesn't really wash given that at the time our own leaders were telling us that Putin was the bright future of Russia in Europe.

    I mean yes you are right. But no party is going to be able to sustain that argument against Reform for more than 5 minutes.
    I don't recall them doing this.
    ..Mrs Justice Cheema-Grubb told the court: "Nathan Gill has admitted having asked questions, made statements and carried out other activities in or connected with the European Parliament in support of pro-Russian parties in the Ukraine conflict."..
    Sorry but you are being disingenuous. I had already said Gill was bang to rights. I was responding to your claims about Farage.
  • AnthonyTAnthonyT Posts: 221
    I wouldn't touch Reform with a barge pole. The Tory party's schmoozing of dubious Russians and some dubious Ukrainians (long before the war) was a disgrace. The cosying up to China - not our friend - by politicians of all parties is disgraceful. And now we have Starmer cosying up to Trump and his backers who are less than robust on Putin and Russia, a threat to us all.

    Barely a fag paper between all of them frankly.

  • Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television. Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed-interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked-up brats you have spawned to replace yourselves. Choose your future....

    I choose patriotic renewal.
    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1971681627198968019

    The remake of Trainspotting doesn't sound very good.

    Patriotic Renewal sounds like one of those comedy vehicle parties jostling on the nationalist right for a piece of the grifting action. Not that I'm suggesting Sir Keir has anything in common with them, oh no.

    As ever Starmer's problem is that he sounds inauthentic, even about stuff he probably genuinely believes in. No amount of coaching or bright ideas from a young comms team (even a good one let alone the rubbish one that No 10 appears to have) fixes that.

  • eekeek Posts: 31,425

    maxh said:

    Off topic: I'm not averse to a good moan on here about the state of the education system, so thought I should balance that out with a bit of praise.

    My school had an INSET day yesterday. In times gone by these days would be crammed full of sessions focused on the senior leadership team members' pet projects or fads, which immediately get forgotten because noone has time to implement them.

    Yesterday, aside from an hour where we discussed how to respond to the London riots (we have a very diverse student body) we were trusted to use the day to deal with all the backlog of tasks that always arise in September as a result of the new school year.

    This was a really conscious choice on the school's part to reduce burnout amongst staff. It is something the headteacher has agency over, and is exactly the sort of thing that will stop our school, and the system as a whole, bleeding staff. I managed to pin down my line manager to meet, meaning that I am now enthusiastic about how I can move my role forward over the next few months.

    More importantly, I sorted out an assessment for students that will mean we can make sure they're in the right class to prepare for their GCSEs, and give them and home a month's warning of the assessment, rather than springing it on them. The school's decision to reduce the crap they throw our way will have a tangible positive impact on our students' experience of preparing for their maths GCSE.

    I'm impressed.

    It does seem the start of the school year always takes schools by surprise. Reminds me of the finance department at the quangos where I used to work, who were always taken by surprise by the end of the financial year.

    A friend who is a teacher at a sixth form was complaining that they were dragged in to do enrolment which they could quite happy do from home. If they had taken the opportunity to do something like you describe, or even have an all-staff meeting, then I could understand it, but no, everyone just had to find somewhere to log onto their laptop and do their enrolment tasks individually
    Hey management still believes that if they can’t see you you aren’t working.

    Which is why teachers end up doing so much extra work because work done at home isn’t visible
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,061
    AnthonyT said:

    I wouldn't touch Reform with a barge pole. The Tory party's schmoozing of dubious Russians and some dubious Ukrainians (long before the war) was a disgrace. The cosying up to China - not our friend - by politicians of all parties is disgraceful. And now we have Starmer cosying up to Trump and his backers who are less than robust on Putin and Russia, a threat to us all.

    Barely a fag paper between all of them frankly.

    What to do when one feels wouldn't touch them with a barge pole about all the options on the ballot sheet? Is the Monster Raving Loony party still an option?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,684
    She beat the Republican by 40%...

    Mike Johnson is refusing to swear in a new Democratic member of Congress until her election results are “official” in mid-October.

    He *just* swore a GOP member in on unofficial results.

    All this to hide the Epstein files?

    https://x.com/Angry_Staffer/status/1971782028048957478
  • Sean_F said:

    Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television. Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed-interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked-up brats you have spawned to replace yourselves. Choose your future....

    I choose patriotic renewal.
    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1971681627198968019

    The remake of Trainspotting doesn't sound very good.

    No more Catholics left!

    I still maintain the nightclub scene from Trainspotting 2 is one of cinema's finest scenes.
    It is hilarious, and so far as I can tell, both unionists and nationalists find it hilarious.
    You know the sector I work in, it was reported that in Scotland after the release of Trainspotting 2 there was an unusually high number of PIN changes.
    Unfortunately they were all to 1872.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    We still don’t know what Johnson was up to - when actually serving as British PM - giving his security the slip and going off to meet that Russian oligarch in his Italian villa. I’d imagine MI6 know, and it will all come out one day.

    The theory that Boris was in bed with the Russians is a strange one. Among the core powers, he was initially a remarkably lone voice in powerfully fighting Ukraine’s corner. I have directly heard it this month that when the war eventually ends, British contractors will be welcomed with open arms in Ukraine, and that Brits “will never understand just how many lives they saved” in 2022.
    *If* Boris was in Russia's pay, then they got a really, really bad deal out of it.

    Whereas they've got a really good deal out of Farage and his chums.
    Yes, Putin isn’t the only one that Johnson got into bed with then ghosted. It is in his character!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,684

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Farage’s problem is going to be that he used to happily take money (and make a fool of himself) on Russia Today - I.e. Putin’s propaganda channel


    Doesn't really wash given that at the time our own leaders were telling us that Putin was the bright future of Russia in Europe.

    I mean yes you are right. But no party is going to be able to sustain that argument against Reform for more than 5 minutes.
    I don't recall them doing this.
    ..Mrs Justice Cheema-Grubb told the court: "Nathan Gill has admitted having asked questions, made statements and carried out other activities in or connected with the European Parliament in support of pro-Russian parties in the Ukraine conflict."..
    Sorry but you are being disingenuous. I had already said Gill was bang to rights. I was responding to your claims about Farage.
    My claims ?
  • AnthonyTAnthonyT Posts: 221
    maxh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    As someone living in a country with ID cards, let’s just say that the big database is entirely the point, and that something intended for very limited use quickly becomes ubiquitous for every interaction with the both the State, and any number of private companies.

    Yes, if I lived in the UK I’d be signing the petition opposing them.

    I posted this last night.

    Good thread on ID cards.
    Why don't we have legislators/civil servants who can understand and explain this, and legislate accordingly ?

    1/ I don’t instinctively like the idea of ID cards. It offends my liberal sensibilities. But Digital IDs aren’t the privacy catastrophe they would have been in the 2000s...
    https://x.com/LawrenceLundy/status/1971543613868998952

    7/ “Done right” is doing a lot of heavy lifting yes. Of course, the devil is in design. A “canonical event log” of every check could easily tip into surveillance. Guardrails are needed around logs, retention, transparency reports.

    8/ Citizens need three guarantees:
    – Share less, prove more.
    – No new central database.
    – Errors are visible and appealable...


    That means NOT giving the contract to Palantir, of course.

    I don't have much confidence that we'll follow those principles.
    Agreed, but if those guarantees were in place I would accept ID cards. That's why I won't sign the petition - it's too blanket anti.

    I suspect that the government is trying to do too many things at once with this (dead cat, performative action on the boats, backroom deals with Palantir to try to curry favour on AI) and that's why they won't put these guarantees in place.

    If ID cards really were about the right to work, it would be easy to put guardrails in place to stop them being just another way that our data gets forcibly transferred into the hands of billionaires.
    They don't want to put the guardrails in place because they want to access all the data and share it and be able to transfer it to whoever the hell they like and they like the idea that they will be able to control the population more easily.

    The argument about ID cards is an argument between (a) those who believe governments and bureaucracies are essentially benevolent, get things wrong by mistake and will try to correct their mistakes and (b) those who look at the reality and believe that governments and bureaucracies are much more capable of malice and much less benevolent than we like to believe and do not much care about making mistakes or the harm they will cause because they calculate, rightly, that they can get away with this.

    There is lots of evidence for the latter and, frankly, not much evidence for the former. Digital ID should be voluntary so that the trusting and naive (group a) can take their chances. If they work without the downsides that others fear they will be adopted soon enough.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,741
    AnthonyT said:

    I wouldn't touch Reform with a barge pole. The Tory party's schmoozing of dubious Russians and some dubious Ukrainians (long before the war) was a disgrace. The cosying up to China - not our friend - by politicians of all parties is disgraceful. And now we have Starmer cosying up to Trump and his backers who are less than robust on Putin and Russia, a threat to us all.

    Barely a fag paper between all of them frankly.

    Who would you have us cosy up to? No-one? Striking out alone, bravely? That's fine, but a bold choice economically.

    I mean, the EU remains the obvious economic partner, but we have rather burnt our teacakes with that one, haven't we?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543
    edited September 27
    Russia has been trying to cultivate politicians worldwide for years, and in the UK it has been remarkably even-handed with who it approached. In the Conservatives you had the likes of Boris and Osborne; Labour Mandelson, Goldsmith and Brown; the SNP Salmond, and UKIP/Reform has Farage himself and others, as shown in the Gill court case. The Lib Dems had Mike Hancock.

    This does not mean any of the above did anything wrong; just that Russia was really trying to cultivate influence. Some of the interactions may have appeared totally benign to the targets. Whether they succeeded in the case of the individuals mentioned is questionable; though in the case of Gill, they definitely did.
  • dunhamdunham Posts: 30

    I do not see it having any effect in Wales

    Indeed Starmer running scared of forthcoming Senedd election in Caerphilly

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/keir-starmer-no-plans-visit-32558918

    Hopefully, Lindsay Whittle wins the by-election on 23rd October and Rhun ap Iorwerth becomes First Minister after the Senedd elections in May 2026. A reform-led administration would be a disaster for Wales.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,684
    AnthonyT said:

    maxh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    As someone living in a country with ID cards, let’s just say that the big database is entirely the point, and that something intended for very limited use quickly becomes ubiquitous for every interaction with the both the State, and any number of private companies.

    Yes, if I lived in the UK I’d be signing the petition opposing them.

    I posted this last night.

    Good thread on ID cards.
    Why don't we have legislators/civil servants who can understand and explain this, and legislate accordingly ?

    1/ I don’t instinctively like the idea of ID cards. It offends my liberal sensibilities. But Digital IDs aren’t the privacy catastrophe they would have been in the 2000s...
    https://x.com/LawrenceLundy/status/1971543613868998952

    7/ “Done right” is doing a lot of heavy lifting yes. Of course, the devil is in design. A “canonical event log” of every check could easily tip into surveillance. Guardrails are needed around logs, retention, transparency reports.

    8/ Citizens need three guarantees:
    – Share less, prove more.
    – No new central database.
    – Errors are visible and appealable...


    That means NOT giving the contract to Palantir, of course.

    I don't have much confidence that we'll follow those principles.
    Agreed, but if those guarantees were in place I would accept ID cards. That's why I won't sign the petition - it's too blanket anti.

    I suspect that the government is trying to do too many things at once with this (dead cat, performative action on the boats, backroom deals with Palantir to try to curry favour on AI) and that's why they won't put these guarantees in place.

    If ID cards really were about the right to work, it would be easy to put guardrails in place to stop them being just another way that our data gets forcibly transferred into the hands of billionaires.
    They don't want to put the guardrails in place because they want to access all the data and share it and be able to transfer it to whoever the hell they like and they like the idea that they will be able to control the population more easily.

    The argument about ID cards is an argument between (a) those who believe governments and bureaucracies are essentially benevolent, get things wrong by mistake and will try to correct their mistakes and (b) those who look at the reality and believe that governments and bureaucracies are much more capable of malice and much less benevolent than we like to believe and do not much care about making mistakes or the harm they will cause because they calculate, rightly, that they can get away with this.

    There is lots of evidence for the latter and, frankly, not much evidence for the former. Digital ID should be voluntary so that the trusting and naive (group a) can take their chances. If they work without the downsides that others fear they will be adopted soon enough.
    The argument about ID cards is a near total distraction from the real one we should be having over the principles which constrain (or fail to) government's use of personal data.

    All the bad stuff will happen, irrespective of ID cards, if that argument is abandoned.
    Which it largely will be if and when the ID card scheme is blocked.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,298
    maxh said:

    AnthonyT said:

    I wouldn't touch Reform with a barge pole. The Tory party's schmoozing of dubious Russians and some dubious Ukrainians (long before the war) was a disgrace. The cosying up to China - not our friend - by politicians of all parties is disgraceful. And now we have Starmer cosying up to Trump and his backers who are less than robust on Putin and Russia, a threat to us all.

    Barely a fag paper between all of them frankly.

    Who would you have us cosy up to? No-one? Striking out alone, bravely? That's fine, but a bold choice economically.

    I mean, the EU remains the obvious economic partner, but we have rather burnt our teacakes with that one, haven't we?
    Maybe politicians shouldn't be on the take and take foreign money.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    AnthonyT said:

    I wouldn't touch Reform with a barge pole. The Tory party's schmoozing of dubious Russians and some dubious Ukrainians (long before the war) was a disgrace. The cosying up to China - not our friend - by politicians of all parties is disgraceful. And now we have Starmer cosying up to Trump and his backers who are less than robust on Putin and Russia, a threat to us all.

    Barely a fag paper between all of them frankly.

    Yes, it shows the folly of Brexit.

    We used to have friends.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543
    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    We still don’t know what Johnson was up to - when actually serving as British PM - giving his security the slip and going off to meet that Russian oligarch in his Italian villa. I’d imagine MI6 know, and it will all come out one day.

    The theory that Boris was in bed with the Russians is a strange one. Among the core powers, he was initially a remarkably lone voice in powerfully fighting Ukraine’s corner. I have directly heard it this month that when the war eventually ends, British contractors will be welcomed with open arms in Ukraine, and that Brits “will never understand just how many lives they saved” in 2022.
    *If* Boris was in Russia's pay, then they got a really, really bad deal out of it.

    Whereas they've got a really good deal out of Farage and his chums.
    Yes, Putin isn’t the only one that Johnson got into bed with then ghosted. It is in his character!
    On the other hand, I don't want top politicians that won't talk to anyone because they don't meet their high personal integrity targets. It comes down to several questions, one of which is: "Are they doing this for the good of the country and their constituents, or are they doing it for personal enrichment?"

    But I refer you to my other post: people in all parties do this. I fully expect some top politicians in all parties to have had some embarrassing and potentially illegal contacts with China.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,741
    AnthonyT said:

    maxh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    As someone living in a country with ID cards, let’s just say that the big database is entirely the point, and that something intended for very limited use quickly becomes ubiquitous for every interaction with the both the State, and any number of private companies.

    Yes, if I lived in the UK I’d be signing the petition opposing them.

    I posted this last night.

    Good thread on ID cards.
    Why don't we have legislators/civil servants who can understand and explain this, and legislate accordingly ?

    1/ I don’t instinctively like the idea of ID cards. It offends my liberal sensibilities. But Digital IDs aren’t the privacy catastrophe they would have been in the 2000s...
    https://x.com/LawrenceLundy/status/1971543613868998952

    7/ “Done right” is doing a lot of heavy lifting yes. Of course, the devil is in design. A “canonical event log” of every check could easily tip into surveillance. Guardrails are needed around logs, retention, transparency reports.

    8/ Citizens need three guarantees:
    – Share less, prove more.
    – No new central database.
    – Errors are visible and appealable...


    That means NOT giving the contract to Palantir, of course.

    I don't have much confidence that we'll follow those principles.
    Agreed, but if those guarantees were in place I would accept ID cards. That's why I won't sign the petition - it's too blanket anti.

    I suspect that the government is trying to do too many things at once with this (dead cat, performative action on the boats, backroom deals with Palantir to try to curry favour on AI) and that's why they won't put these guarantees in place.

    If ID cards really were about the right to work, it would be easy to put guardrails in place to stop them being just another way that our data gets forcibly transferred into the hands of billionaires.
    They don't want to put the guardrails in place because they want to access all the data and share it and be able to transfer it to whoever the hell they like and they like the idea that they will be able to control the population more easily.

    The argument about ID cards is an argument between (a) those who believe governments and bureaucracies are essentially benevolent, get things wrong by mistake and will try to correct their mistakes and (b) those who look at the reality and believe that governments and bureaucracies are much more capable of malice and much less benevolent than we like to believe and do not much care about making mistakes or the harm they will cause because they calculate, rightly, that they can get away with this.

    There is lots of evidence for the latter and, frankly, not much evidence for the former. Digital ID should be voluntary so that the trusting and naive (group a) can take their chances. If they work without the downsides that others fear they will be adopted soon enough.
    I don't agree. I am in group (a) but oppose ID cards. I think the government is a bit like a bumbling uncle. Means well, but farts a lot and sometimes sits on the Lego model you've spent all week building.

    My real issue is that governments of all stripes (with our willing cheerleading) have got themselves so deep into the muck and mire economically that any big project has to made more affordable by being stuffed full of economic incentives for private enterprise to profit from it.

    My conjecture: Palantir will make millions from our data, and (in theory) prostrating ourselves at their door will make the initial setup and ongoing administration of an ID cards system cheaper for our cash-strapped government.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,396
    dunham said:

    I do not see it having any effect in Wales

    Indeed Starmer running scared of forthcoming Senedd election in Caerphilly

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/keir-starmer-no-plans-visit-32558918

    Hopefully, Lindsay Whittle wins the by-election on 23rd October and Rhun ap Iorwerth becomes First Minister after the Senedd elections in May 2026. A reform-led administration would be a disaster for Wales.
    Very probably.

    That might, of course, not be a bad thing for the UK if it discredited them.

    But I would be uneasy about Plaid forming a government because I cannot see a route for them to do so without Labour support unless something rather dramatic happens to the Liberal Democrats or Greens. And what Wales needs, above all and for however short a time, is a non-Labour government.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,247
    Andy_JS said:
    You keep posting regular updates, but I can't say I'm anything like as worked up about ID cards today as I was in the 2000s.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,298
    eek said:

    maxh said:

    Off topic: I'm not averse to a good moan on here about the state of the education system, so thought I should balance that out with a bit of praise.

    My school had an INSET day yesterday. In times gone by these days would be crammed full of sessions focused on the senior leadership team members' pet projects or fads, which immediately get forgotten because noone has time to implement them.

    Yesterday, aside from an hour where we discussed how to respond to the London riots (we have a very diverse student body) we were trusted to use the day to deal with all the backlog of tasks that always arise in September as a result of the new school year.

    This was a really conscious choice on the school's part to reduce burnout amongst staff. It is something the headteacher has agency over, and is exactly the sort of thing that will stop our school, and the system as a whole, bleeding staff. I managed to pin down my line manager to meet, meaning that I am now enthusiastic about how I can move my role forward over the next few months.

    More importantly, I sorted out an assessment for students that will mean we can make sure they're in the right class to prepare for their GCSEs, and give them and home a month's warning of the assessment, rather than springing it on them. The school's decision to reduce the crap they throw our way will have a tangible positive impact on our students' experience of preparing for their maths GCSE.

    I'm impressed.

    It does seem the start of the school year always takes schools by surprise. Reminds me of the finance department at the quangos where I used to work, who were always taken by surprise by the end of the financial year.

    A friend who is a teacher at a sixth form was complaining that they were dragged in to do enrolment which they could quite happy do from home. If they had taken the opportunity to do something like you describe, or even have an all-staff meeting, then I could understand it, but no, everyone just had to find somewhere to log onto their laptop and do their enrolment tasks individually
    Hey management still believes that if they can’t see you you aren’t working.

    Which is why teachers end up doing so much extra work because work done at home isn’t visible
    Also, the senior managers are on "52 weeks a year" contracts and contracted to work over the summer, suspect they wanted to drag the teachers in as soon as they were able.

    Teacher management is poor, at best they treat the staff as if they were teenagers, and at worst, little kids. But then they have spent their entire career up to that point managing children.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,741
    Nigelb said:

    AnthonyT said:

    maxh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    As someone living in a country with ID cards, let’s just say that the big database is entirely the point, and that something intended for very limited use quickly becomes ubiquitous for every interaction with the both the State, and any number of private companies.

    Yes, if I lived in the UK I’d be signing the petition opposing them.

    I posted this last night.

    Good thread on ID cards.
    Why don't we have legislators/civil servants who can understand and explain this, and legislate accordingly ?

    1/ I don’t instinctively like the idea of ID cards. It offends my liberal sensibilities. But Digital IDs aren’t the privacy catastrophe they would have been in the 2000s...
    https://x.com/LawrenceLundy/status/1971543613868998952

    7/ “Done right” is doing a lot of heavy lifting yes. Of course, the devil is in design. A “canonical event log” of every check could easily tip into surveillance. Guardrails are needed around logs, retention, transparency reports.

    8/ Citizens need three guarantees:
    – Share less, prove more.
    – No new central database.
    – Errors are visible and appealable...


    That means NOT giving the contract to Palantir, of course.

    I don't have much confidence that we'll follow those principles.
    Agreed, but if those guarantees were in place I would accept ID cards. That's why I won't sign the petition - it's too blanket anti.

    I suspect that the government is trying to do too many things at once with this (dead cat, performative action on the boats, backroom deals with Palantir to try to curry favour on AI) and that's why they won't put these guarantees in place.

    If ID cards really were about the right to work, it would be easy to put guardrails in place to stop them being just another way that our data gets forcibly transferred into the hands of billionaires.
    They don't want to put the guardrails in place because they want to access all the data and share it and be able to transfer it to whoever the hell they like and they like the idea that they will be able to control the population more easily.

    The argument about ID cards is an argument between (a) those who believe governments and bureaucracies are essentially benevolent, get things wrong by mistake and will try to correct their mistakes and (b) those who look at the reality and believe that governments and bureaucracies are much more capable of malice and much less benevolent than we like to believe and do not much care about making mistakes or the harm they will cause because they calculate, rightly, that they can get away with this.

    There is lots of evidence for the latter and, frankly, not much evidence for the former. Digital ID should be voluntary so that the trusting and naive (group a) can take their chances. If they work without the downsides that others fear they will be adopted soon enough.
    The argument about ID cards is a near total distraction from the real one we should be having over the principles which constrain (or fail to) government's use of personal data.

    All the bad stuff will happen, irrespective of ID cards, if that argument is abandoned.
    Which it largely will be if and when the ID card scheme is blocked.
    If I could give this 10 likes I would.

    In my view this will become one of the major political battlegrounds of the future.

    Not just the government - we should own, control and have visibility over the use of our personal data across public and private spheres.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,021
    IanB2 said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    We still don’t know what Johnson was up to - when actually serving as British PM - giving his security the slip and going off to meet that Russian oligarch in his Italian villa. I’d imagine MI6 know, and it will all come out one day.

    The theory that Boris was in bed with the Russians is a strange one. Among the core powers, he was initially a remarkably lone voice in powerfully fighting Ukraine’s corner. I have directly heard it this month that when the war eventually ends, British contractors will be welcomed with open arms in Ukraine, and that Brits “will never understand just how many lives they saved” in 2022.
    He put that Russian guy in the Lords, against security services advice, he gave his security the slip to go meet the oligarch alone in Italy, he suppressed publication of an independent report into Russian links and influence on our politics. That he was alert enough to reverse ferret and back Ukraine once it was clear Russia was destined to be this century’s bad guy doesn’t erase what went before.

    At the same time, our own low IQ sage was trying to persuade us that Putin was the savour of western civilisation.
    It's interesting that our occasional Russian visitors usually say something like "Leon is right" before they get cancelled.
  • IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Petition now up to 1.2 million, still running at more than 1,000 signups per minute

    Now 1.3 million.
    While the extent of public concern isn’t a surprise, that people are signing up at such a rate today indicates it’s being pushed in a professional and very effective way - I wonder how and where?
    Does anyone agree with this? I think the signing of the petition is just ordinary people taking part, nothing professional about it.
    The signup speed is almost unprecedented - no way that happens organically. Most people don’t hang about the parliamentary petitions site, and a mentions on political sites and blogs, or even a mention on R4, wouldn’t generate anything like that level of interest. This is being pushed in a big way by someone.
    Perhaps, but remember this mass opposition to ID cards is not new, so a lot of it is presumably people recognising that the same thing they fought 20 years ago has reappeared. They'd not take a lot of prodding.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,247
    Nigelb said:

    AnthonyT said:

    maxh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    As someone living in a country with ID cards, let’s just say that the big database is entirely the point, and that something intended for very limited use quickly becomes ubiquitous for every interaction with the both the State, and any number of private companies.

    Yes, if I lived in the UK I’d be signing the petition opposing them.

    I posted this last night.

    Good thread on ID cards.
    Why don't we have legislators/civil servants who can understand and explain this, and legislate accordingly ?

    1/ I don’t instinctively like the idea of ID cards. It offends my liberal sensibilities. But Digital IDs aren’t the privacy catastrophe they would have been in the 2000s...
    https://x.com/LawrenceLundy/status/1971543613868998952

    7/ “Done right” is doing a lot of heavy lifting yes. Of course, the devil is in design. A “canonical event log” of every check could easily tip into surveillance. Guardrails are needed around logs, retention, transparency reports.

    8/ Citizens need three guarantees:
    – Share less, prove more.
    – No new central database.
    – Errors are visible and appealable...


    That means NOT giving the contract to Palantir, of course.

    I don't have much confidence that we'll follow those principles.
    Agreed, but if those guarantees were in place I would accept ID cards. That's why I won't sign the petition - it's too blanket anti.

    I suspect that the government is trying to do too many things at once with this (dead cat, performative action on the boats, backroom deals with Palantir to try to curry favour on AI) and that's why they won't put these guarantees in place.

    If ID cards really were about the right to work, it would be easy to put guardrails in place to stop them being just another way that our data gets forcibly transferred into the hands of billionaires.
    They don't want to put the guardrails in place because they want to access all the data and share it and be able to transfer it to whoever the hell they like and they like the idea that they will be able to control the population more easily.

    The argument about ID cards is an argument between (a) those who believe governments and bureaucracies are essentially benevolent, get things wrong by mistake and will try to correct their mistakes and (b) those who look at the reality and believe that governments and bureaucracies are much more capable of malice and much less benevolent than we like to believe and do not much care about making mistakes or the harm they will cause because they calculate, rightly, that they can get away with this.

    There is lots of evidence for the latter and, frankly, not much evidence for the former. Digital ID should be voluntary so that the trusting and naive (group a) can take their chances. If they work without the downsides that others fear they will be adopted soon enough.
    The argument about ID cards is a near total distraction from the real one we should be having over the principles which constrain (or fail to) government's use of personal data.

    All the bad stuff will happen, irrespective of ID cards, if that argument is abandoned.
    Which it largely will be if and when the ID card scheme is blocked.
    Yes, exactly - ID cards are a totem but the reality is the government has all our personal data anyway, and I suspect access to real-time tracking via our smartphones.

    You want privacy? Leave your phone at home, and walk out with a wallet and cash.
  • maxh said:

    Off topic: I'm not averse to a good moan on here about the state of the education system, so thought I should balance that out with a bit of praise.

    My school had an INSET day yesterday. In times gone by these days would be crammed full of sessions focused on the senior leadership team members' pet projects or fads, which immediately get forgotten because noone has time to implement them.

    Yesterday, aside from an hour where we discussed how to respond to the London riots (we have a very diverse student body) we were trusted to use the day to deal with all the backlog of tasks that always arise in September as a result of the new school year.

    This was a really conscious choice on the school's part to reduce burnout amongst staff. It is something the headteacher has agency over, and is exactly the sort of thing that will stop our school, and the system as a whole, bleeding staff. I managed to pin down my line manager to meet, meaning that I am now enthusiastic about how I can move my role forward over the next few months.

    More importantly, I sorted out an assessment for students that will mean we can make sure they're in the right class to prepare for their GCSEs, and give them and home a month's warning of the assessment, rather than springing it on them. The school's decision to reduce the crap they throw our way will have a tangible positive impact on our students' experience of preparing for their maths GCSE.

    I'm impressed.

    Hold on. What London riots?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,298
    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    We still don’t know what Johnson was up to - when actually serving as British PM - giving his security the slip and going off to meet that Russian oligarch in his Italian villa. I’d imagine MI6 know, and it will all come out one day.

    The theory that Boris was in bed with the Russians is a strange one. Among the core powers, he was initially a remarkably lone voice in powerfully fighting Ukraine’s corner. I have directly heard it this month that when the war eventually ends, British contractors will be welcomed with open arms in Ukraine, and that Brits “will never understand just how many lives they saved” in 2022.
    *If* Boris was in Russia's pay, then they got a really, really bad deal out of it.

    Whereas they've got a really good deal out of Farage and his chums.
    Yes, Putin isn’t the only one that Johnson got into bed with then ghosted. It is in his character!
    Isn't that a good thing? If we agree politicians should have contacts with external actors, as soon as it appears they are up to no good, surely you should ghost them as you put it. Not keep taking the roubles.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,741

    maxh said:

    AnthonyT said:

    I wouldn't touch Reform with a barge pole. The Tory party's schmoozing of dubious Russians and some dubious Ukrainians (long before the war) was a disgrace. The cosying up to China - not our friend - by politicians of all parties is disgraceful. And now we have Starmer cosying up to Trump and his backers who are less than robust on Putin and Russia, a threat to us all.

    Barely a fag paper between all of them frankly.

    Who would you have us cosy up to? No-one? Striking out alone, bravely? That's fine, but a bold choice economically.

    I mean, the EU remains the obvious economic partner, but we have rather burnt our teacakes with that one, haven't we?
    Maybe politicians shouldn't be on the take and take foreign money.
    Agreed, but there is (or at least should be) a big difference between schmoozing on the international stage to encourage trade, and being on the take.

    Perhaps we should copy Singapore's approach of paying our politicians lots more but chopping off vital appendages if they are corrupt.
  • Nigelb said:

    AnthonyT said:

    maxh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    As someone living in a country with ID cards, let’s just say that the big database is entirely the point, and that something intended for very limited use quickly becomes ubiquitous for every interaction with the both the State, and any number of private companies.

    Yes, if I lived in the UK I’d be signing the petition opposing them.

    I posted this last night.

    Good thread on ID cards.
    Why don't we have legislators/civil servants who can understand and explain this, and legislate accordingly ?

    1/ I don’t instinctively like the idea of ID cards. It offends my liberal sensibilities. But Digital IDs aren’t the privacy catastrophe they would have been in the 2000s...
    https://x.com/LawrenceLundy/status/1971543613868998952

    7/ “Done right” is doing a lot of heavy lifting yes. Of course, the devil is in design. A “canonical event log” of every check could easily tip into surveillance. Guardrails are needed around logs, retention, transparency reports.

    8/ Citizens need three guarantees:
    – Share less, prove more.
    – No new central database.
    – Errors are visible and appealable...


    That means NOT giving the contract to Palantir, of course.

    I don't have much confidence that we'll follow those principles.
    Agreed, but if those guarantees were in place I would accept ID cards. That's why I won't sign the petition - it's too blanket anti.

    I suspect that the government is trying to do too many things at once with this (dead cat, performative action on the boats, backroom deals with Palantir to try to curry favour on AI) and that's why they won't put these guarantees in place.

    If ID cards really were about the right to work, it would be easy to put guardrails in place to stop them being just another way that our data gets forcibly transferred into the hands of billionaires.
    They don't want to put the guardrails in place because they want to access all the data and share it and be able to transfer it to whoever the hell they like and they like the idea that they will be able to control the population more easily.

    The argument about ID cards is an argument between (a) those who believe governments and bureaucracies are essentially benevolent, get things wrong by mistake and will try to correct their mistakes and (b) those who look at the reality and believe that governments and bureaucracies are much more capable of malice and much less benevolent than we like to believe and do not much care about making mistakes or the harm they will cause because they calculate, rightly, that they can get away with this.

    There is lots of evidence for the latter and, frankly, not much evidence for the former. Digital ID should be voluntary so that the trusting and naive (group a) can take their chances. If they work without the downsides that others fear they will be adopted soon enough.
    The argument about ID cards is a near total distraction from the real one we should be having over the principles which constrain (or fail to) government's use of personal data.

    All the bad stuff will happen, irrespective of ID cards, if that argument is abandoned.
    Which it largely will be if and when the ID card scheme is blocked.
    As the catechism puts it,

    What meanest thou by this word Sacrament?

    I mean an outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace given unto us, ordained by Christ himself, as a means whereby we receive the same, and a pledge to assure us thereof.

    How many parts are there in a Sacrament?

    Two: the outward visible sign, and the inward spiritual grace.


    The card or app is the outward and visible sign, the database is the inward and spiritual (dis)grace. And although the human mind links the two, there is no particular reason to do so. (That works even for sacraments, come to think of it. During the pandemic, the church dusted off the old idea of 'Spiritual Communion'- as long as you devoutly wanted the graces attached to the bread and the wine, you didn't actually need to ingest them to get the benefit.)
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,741

    maxh said:

    Off topic: I'm not averse to a good moan on here about the state of the education system, so thought I should balance that out with a bit of praise.

    My school had an INSET day yesterday. In times gone by these days would be crammed full of sessions focused on the senior leadership team members' pet projects or fads, which immediately get forgotten because noone has time to implement them.

    Yesterday, aside from an hour where we discussed how to respond to the London riots (we have a very diverse student body) we were trusted to use the day to deal with all the backlog of tasks that always arise in September as a result of the new school year.

    This was a really conscious choice on the school's part to reduce burnout amongst staff. It is something the headteacher has agency over, and is exactly the sort of thing that will stop our school, and the system as a whole, bleeding staff. I managed to pin down my line manager to meet, meaning that I am now enthusiastic about how I can move my role forward over the next few months.

    More importantly, I sorted out an assessment for students that will mean we can make sure they're in the right class to prepare for their GCSEs, and give them and home a month's warning of the assessment, rather than springing it on them. The school's decision to reduce the crap they throw our way will have a tangible positive impact on our students' experience of preparing for their maths GCSE.

    I'm impressed.

    Hold on. What London riots?
    Oops. Yes. Good point. I was thinking about the small proportion of the Tommy Robinson march that attacked police and misspoke.
  • AnthonyTAnthonyT Posts: 221
    maxh said:

    AnthonyT said:

    I wouldn't touch Reform with a barge pole. The Tory party's schmoozing of dubious Russians and some dubious Ukrainians (long before the war) was a disgrace. The cosying up to China - not our friend - by politicians of all parties is disgraceful. And now we have Starmer cosying up to Trump and his backers who are less than robust on Putin and Russia, a threat to us all.

    Barely a fag paper between all of them frankly.

    Who would you have us cosy up to? No-one? Striking out alone, bravely? That's fine, but a bold choice economically.

    I mean, the EU remains the obvious economic partner, but we have rather burnt our teacakes with that one, haven't we?
    There is a difference between having diplomatic relations with a country but being sceptical, wary, supping with a long spoon and the sort of naive desperate cosying up we are seeing all too often. British politicians have no self-respect, behaving like the fat child in class desperate to do anything just to have a "friend" who in reality despises them.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,298

    Andy_JS said:
    You keep posting regular updates, but I can't say I'm anything like as worked up about ID cards today as I was in the 2000s.
    I also think we have moved to an era where ID is much more required. But if I am going to have government ID I want it to enable me to manage all my contacts with government, and act as a good ID for third parties. I might as well get something out of it.

    Being able to use it for travel would also be good, but unlikely to happen as we don't take EU ID cards as travel documents and I don't think we take any (other than maybe UK immigrant ID cards which I understand are being phased out anyway)
  • eek said:

    maxh said:

    Off topic: I'm not averse to a good moan on here about the state of the education system, so thought I should balance that out with a bit of praise.

    My school had an INSET day yesterday. In times gone by these days would be crammed full of sessions focused on the senior leadership team members' pet projects or fads, which immediately get forgotten because noone has time to implement them.

    Yesterday, aside from an hour where we discussed how to respond to the London riots (we have a very diverse student body) we were trusted to use the day to deal with all the backlog of tasks that always arise in September as a result of the new school year.

    This was a really conscious choice on the school's part to reduce burnout amongst staff. It is something the headteacher has agency over, and is exactly the sort of thing that will stop our school, and the system as a whole, bleeding staff. I managed to pin down my line manager to meet, meaning that I am now enthusiastic about how I can move my role forward over the next few months.

    More importantly, I sorted out an assessment for students that will mean we can make sure they're in the right class to prepare for their GCSEs, and give them and home a month's warning of the assessment, rather than springing it on them. The school's decision to reduce the crap they throw our way will have a tangible positive impact on our students' experience of preparing for their maths GCSE.

    I'm impressed.

    It does seem the start of the school year always takes schools by surprise. Reminds me of the finance department at the quangos where I used to work, who were always taken by surprise by the end of the financial year.

    A friend who is a teacher at a sixth form was complaining that they were dragged in to do enrolment which they could quite happy do from home. If they had taken the opportunity to do something like you describe, or even have an all-staff meeting, then I could understand it, but no, everyone just had to find somewhere to log onto their laptop and do their enrolment tasks individually
    Hey management still believes that if they can’t see you you aren’t working.

    Which is why teachers end up doing so much extra work because work done at home isn’t visible
    Also, the senior managers are on "52 weeks a year" contracts and contracted to work over the summer, suspect they wanted to drag the teachers in as soon as they were able.

    Teacher management is poor, at best they treat the staff as if they were teenagers, and at worst, little kids. But then they have spent their entire career up to that point managing children.
    This is the classic criticism of the entire teaching profession, that they've spent their whole lives as or with children and not worked with adults.
  • Nigelb said:

    She beat the Republican by 40%...

    Mike Johnson is refusing to swear in a new Democratic member of Congress until her election results are “official” in mid-October.

    He *just* swore a GOP member in on unofficial results.

    All this to hide the Epstein files?

    https://x.com/Angry_Staffer/status/1971782028048957478

    Perhaps Arizona should count its votes quicker then.

    And who is this new GOP member sworn in on unofficial results ?

    Two weeks ago a new DEM representative was sworn in the day after the election:

    Walkinshaw won a 10-candidate Democratic primary race for the seat with 60% of the vote on June 28, 2025.[27][28][3][29] He defeated Republican Stewart Whitson by approximately 50 percentage points in the general election on September 9.[30] Walkinshaw was sworn in the following day.[31]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Walkinshaw
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    Roger said:

    Everyone believes Reform are made up of crooks chancers and Nazis. I don't think this'll make a huge difference. I'm just waiting for the giant implosion which for maximum effect should happen in 2028

    Sadly, the scales falling from voters eyes is more likely to occur after rather than before the GE.

    It is a pretty universal rule that when voters vote for a party* on the basis of "things couldn't get worse" that they almost always rapidly do get worse.

    *or Brexit...
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,298

    eek said:

    maxh said:

    Off topic: I'm not averse to a good moan on here about the state of the education system, so thought I should balance that out with a bit of praise.

    My school had an INSET day yesterday. In times gone by these days would be crammed full of sessions focused on the senior leadership team members' pet projects or fads, which immediately get forgotten because noone has time to implement them.

    Yesterday, aside from an hour where we discussed how to respond to the London riots (we have a very diverse student body) we were trusted to use the day to deal with all the backlog of tasks that always arise in September as a result of the new school year.

    This was a really conscious choice on the school's part to reduce burnout amongst staff. It is something the headteacher has agency over, and is exactly the sort of thing that will stop our school, and the system as a whole, bleeding staff. I managed to pin down my line manager to meet, meaning that I am now enthusiastic about how I can move my role forward over the next few months.

    More importantly, I sorted out an assessment for students that will mean we can make sure they're in the right class to prepare for their GCSEs, and give them and home a month's warning of the assessment, rather than springing it on them. The school's decision to reduce the crap they throw our way will have a tangible positive impact on our students' experience of preparing for their maths GCSE.

    I'm impressed.

    It does seem the start of the school year always takes schools by surprise. Reminds me of the finance department at the quangos where I used to work, who were always taken by surprise by the end of the financial year.

    A friend who is a teacher at a sixth form was complaining that they were dragged in to do enrolment which they could quite happy do from home. If they had taken the opportunity to do something like you describe, or even have an all-staff meeting, then I could understand it, but no, everyone just had to find somewhere to log onto their laptop and do their enrolment tasks individually
    Hey management still believes that if they can’t see you you aren’t working.

    Which is why teachers end up doing so much extra work because work done at home isn’t visible
    Also, the senior managers are on "52 weeks a year" contracts and contracted to work over the summer, suspect they wanted to drag the teachers in as soon as they were able.

    Teacher management is poor, at best they treat the staff as if they were teenagers, and at worst, little kids. But then they have spent their entire career up to that point managing children.
    This is the classic criticism of the entire teaching profession, that they've spent their whole lives as or with children and not worked with adults.
    Having worked at SCAA and QCA and observed some of the management practices, it's a fair criticism
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,782
    edited September 27

    Nigelb said:

    AnthonyT said:

    maxh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    As someone living in a country with ID cards, let’s just say that the big database is entirely the point, and that something intended for very limited use quickly becomes ubiquitous for every interaction with the both the State, and any number of private companies.

    Yes, if I lived in the UK I’d be signing the petition opposing them.

    I posted this last night.

    Good thread on ID cards.
    Why don't we have legislators/civil servants who can understand and explain this, and legislate accordingly ?

    1/ I don’t instinctively like the idea of ID cards. It offends my liberal sensibilities. But Digital IDs aren’t the privacy catastrophe they would have been in the 2000s...
    https://x.com/LawrenceLundy/status/1971543613868998952

    7/ “Done right” is doing a lot of heavy lifting yes. Of course, the devil is in design. A “canonical event log” of every check could easily tip into surveillance. Guardrails are needed around logs, retention, transparency reports.

    8/ Citizens need three guarantees:
    – Share less, prove more.
    – No new central database.
    – Errors are visible and appealable...


    That means NOT giving the contract to Palantir, of course.

    I don't have much confidence that we'll follow those principles.
    Agreed, but if those guarantees were in place I would accept ID cards. That's why I won't sign the petition - it's too blanket anti.

    I suspect that the government is trying to do too many things at once with this (dead cat, performative action on the boats, backroom deals with Palantir to try to curry favour on AI) and that's why they won't put these guarantees in place.

    If ID cards really were about the right to work, it would be easy to put guardrails in place to stop them being just another way that our data gets forcibly transferred into the hands of billionaires.
    They don't want to put the guardrails in place because they want to access all the data and share it and be able to transfer it to whoever the hell they like and they like the idea that they will be able to control the population more easily.

    The argument about ID cards is an argument between (a) those who believe governments and bureaucracies are essentially benevolent, get things wrong by mistake and will try to correct their mistakes and (b) those who look at the reality and believe that governments and bureaucracies are much more capable of malice and much less benevolent than we like to believe and do not much care about making mistakes or the harm they will cause because they calculate, rightly, that they can get away with this.

    There is lots of evidence for the latter and, frankly, not much evidence for the former. Digital ID should be voluntary so that the trusting and naive (group a) can take their chances. If they work without the downsides that others fear they will be adopted soon enough.
    The argument about ID cards is a near total distraction from the real one we should be having over the principles which constrain (or fail to) government's use of personal data.

    All the bad stuff will happen, irrespective of ID cards, if that argument is abandoned.
    Which it largely will be if and when the ID card scheme is blocked.
    Yes, exactly - ID cards are a totem but the reality is the government has all our personal data anyway, and I suspect access to real-time tracking via our smartphones.

    You want privacy? Leave your phone at home, and walk out with a wallet and cash.
    I wouldn't agree that they're a distraction. They offer a new opportunity for the integration of data.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,741
    AnthonyT said:

    maxh said:

    AnthonyT said:

    I wouldn't touch Reform with a barge pole. The Tory party's schmoozing of dubious Russians and some dubious Ukrainians (long before the war) was a disgrace. The cosying up to China - not our friend - by politicians of all parties is disgraceful. And now we have Starmer cosying up to Trump and his backers who are less than robust on Putin and Russia, a threat to us all.

    Barely a fag paper between all of them frankly.

    Who would you have us cosy up to? No-one? Striking out alone, bravely? That's fine, but a bold choice economically.

    I mean, the EU remains the obvious economic partner, but we have rather burnt our teacakes with that one, haven't we?
    There is a difference between having diplomatic relations with a country but being sceptical, wary, supping with a long spoon and the sort of naive desperate cosying up we are seeing all too often. British politicians have no self-respect, behaving like the fat child in class desperate to do anything just to have a "friend" who in reality despises them.
    We are now 100% in agreement.
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