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I have just one question to these MPs urging Burnham to challenge Starmer – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,717
edited October 6 in General
I have just one question to these MPs urging Burnham to challenge Starmer – politicalbetting.com

Can you explain to me the plausible route(s) Andy Burnham becomes a member of parliament before the next general election? Until you can then I will continue to lay Andy Burnham in the appropriate markets.

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  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,548
    edited September 25
    First. Unlike Andy Burnham when he ran for the Labour leadership.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,654
    Any dream will do
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,868
    edited September 25
    Burnham has always been high on his own supply.

    Challenging Starmer when Burnham holds none of the cards all seems very unwise.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,680
    Starmer needs to devolve some more difficult functions to the Greater Manchester mayoralty. Burnham's clearly not busy enough.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,686
    "Andy Burnham: MPs want me to challenge Starmer"

    Then the MPs are stupid.

    And so is Burnham for saying this. There are a lot of barriers to his getting the top job, not the least of which is that he has tried before and failed. All this does is add pressure on a beleaguered PM and government. Do people like Burnham really want this government to fail? Would he prefer a Reform government?
  • Surrounded by a posse of fluffers in Manchester, he's let things go to his head.

    He needs a £700k slush fund and a McSweeney.
    Well, not exactly a McSweeney because he’s crap.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,099
    The other consideration is that in Greater Manchester he enjoys the fun side of government finances - the spending. Even with income tax (and others) in the SNP's control for some time now, they still benefit politically from this lopsided fiscal arrangement.

    So Burnham's popularity is something of a mirage - though that doesn't mean people won't believe what they are seeing. If Starmer carries on as he is as the moment you can see why Labour members and left-leaning voters will become increasingly desperate, despite the drawbacks TSE details above.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,099
    Dopermean said:

    Starmer needs to devolve some more difficult functions to the Greater Manchester mayoralty. Burnham's clearly not busy enough.

    Put him in charge of Northern Powerhouse rail.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,654
    edited September 25
    Wishcasting from desperate Labour MPs.
    To the extent im copyrighting my new phrase to describe the Burham Boosters and the man himself - all a bit Mayory-Fairy
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,325
    Eabhal said:

    Dopermean said:

    Starmer needs to devolve some more difficult functions to the Greater Manchester mayoralty. Burnham's clearly not busy enough.

    Put him in charge of Northern Powerhouse rail.
    They can't as they appear about to cancel it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,325

    Wishcasting from desperate Labour MPs.
    To the extent im copyrighting my new phrase to describe the Burham Boosters and the man himself - all a bit Mayory-Fairy

    LOL.

    Maybe Lab MPs should be Mayory-wary based on what @TSE is saying?

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,476

    Burnham has always been high on his own supply.

    It’s only going to get worse when he goes to the Labour Conference . They’ll be laying down palm branches as he arrives . The media will go into full Labours saviour has arrived . Most of the public probably don’t realize that Burnhams got no chance of the Leadership unless an MP stands down to give him a run at a seat and the choice of seats where Labour actually could win in the present climate isn’t exactly high . There’s also the chance that Burnham is seen as a backstabbing Judas and even if he gets into the Commons his leadership ambitions crash and burn .
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,099

    Eabhal said:

    Dopermean said:

    Starmer needs to devolve some more difficult functions to the Greater Manchester mayoralty. Burnham's clearly not busy enough.

    Put him in charge of Northern Powerhouse rail.
    They can't as they appear about to cancel it.
    Exactly.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,654

    Wishcasting from desperate Labour MPs.
    To the extent im copyrighting my new phrase to describe the Burham Boosters and the man himself - all a bit Mayory-Fairy

    LOL.

    Maybe Lab MPs should be Mayory-wary based on what @TSE is saying?

    Lol, Its a nightmayor for Lab
  • A couple of other questions.

    What Labour politician thinks it's a good idea to launch a leadership campaign in the Daily Bleeding Telegraph?

    Given how southern Labour's actual (as opposed to imagined) coalition is, how the hell does his agenda help?

    Apart from that, 10/10 no notes Andy.

    Yes, did it ever occur to doe-eyed Andy to ask why the resolutely right wing (currently trending hard right), anti-Labour Tele might want encourage him in his manoeuvres?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,325

    Wishcasting from desperate Labour MPs.
    To the extent im copyrighting my new phrase to describe the Burham Boosters and the man himself - all a bit Mayory-Fairy

    LOL.

    Maybe Lab MPs should be Mayory-wary based on what @TSE is saying?

    Lol, Its a nightmayor for Lab
    I can see that actually being used on a headline!
  • Wishcasting from desperate Labour MPs.
    To the extent im copyrighting my new phrase to describe the Burham Boosters and the man himself - all a bit Mayory-Fairy

    LOL.

    Maybe Lab MPs should be Mayory-wary based on what @TSE is saying?

    Lol, Its a nightmayor for Lab
    Nightmayor on La Burnham St.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,325

    A couple of other questions.

    What Labour politician thinks it's a good idea to launch a leadership campaign in the Daily Bleeding Telegraph?

    Given how southern Labour's actual (as opposed to imagined) coalition is, how the hell does his agenda help?

    Apart from that, 10/10 no notes Andy.

    Yes, did it ever occur to doe-eyed Andy to ask why the resolutely right wing (currently trending hard right), anti-Labour Tele might want encourage him in his manoeuvres?
    He'd already broken cover fully in this weekend's Fabian newsletter, Newstatesman, to be fair. Although that only hits the shelves today I think.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,099

    A couple of other questions.

    What Labour politician thinks it's a good idea to launch a leadership campaign in the Daily Bleeding Telegraph?

    Given how southern Labour's actual (as opposed to imagined) coalition is, how the hell does his agenda help?

    Apart from that, 10/10 no notes Andy.

    To be fair, that is quite a strong positive for Burnham. Labour really does feel like the London party at the moment and losing that perception is going to be important.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,654

    Wishcasting from desperate Labour MPs.
    To the extent im copyrighting my new phrase to describe the Burham Boosters and the man himself - all a bit Mayory-Fairy

    LOL.

    Maybe Lab MPs should be Mayory-wary based on what @TSE is saying?

    Lol, Its a nightmayor for Lab
    I can see that actually being used on a headline!
    Secretly, I am the origin of most of the tat in the press.
    Mayory Mayory, quite contrary (how does your ambition grow?)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,891
    Eabhal said:

    A couple of other questions.

    What Labour politician thinks it's a good idea to launch a leadership campaign in the Daily Bleeding Telegraph?

    Given how southern Labour's actual (as opposed to imagined) coalition is, how the hell does his agenda help?

    Apart from that, 10/10 no notes Andy.

    To be fair, that is quite a strong positive for Burnham. Labour really does feel like the London party at the moment and losing that perception is going to be important.
    A tax on southern property wealth tax will keep Labour out of power for a generation.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,654

    Wishcasting from desperate Labour MPs.
    To the extent im copyrighting my new phrase to describe the Burham Boosters and the man himself - all a bit Mayory-Fairy

    LOL.

    Maybe Lab MPs should be Mayory-wary based on what @TSE is saying?

    Lol, Its a nightmayor for Lab
    I haven't seen this post, so when I use 'nightmayor' in an upcoming header I will claim credit for the awesome pun.
    Beware Woolie. He is petty and vengeful!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,325
    nico67 said:

    Burnham has always been high on his own supply.

    It’s only going to get worse when he goes to the Labour Conference . They’ll be laying down palm branches as he arrives . The media will go into full Labours saviour has arrived . Most of the public probably don’t realize that Burnhams got no chance of the Leadership unless an MP stands down to give him a run at a seat and the choice of seats where Labour actually could win in the present climate isn’t exactly high . There’s also the chance that Burnham is seen as a backstabbing Judas and even if he gets into the Commons his leadership ambitions crash and burn .
    So, just a bit of idle fun:

    Powell loses deputy leadership. Resigns her seat saying 'she's done with politics'. Her mate Andy gets the nomination and wins the by-election. He forces a leadership vote by getting 80 MPs to sign for a contest. Andy wins leadership. Powell is given her reward in form of a peerage and a place back in Cabinet. Starmer immediately resigns his seat and the seat is lost in subsequent by-election to Green-Corbyn Alliance candidate immediately plunging Burnham's new administration into crisis. The bond markets meltdown.

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,099
    edited September 25
    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of other questions.

    What Labour politician thinks it's a good idea to launch a leadership campaign in the Daily Bleeding Telegraph?

    Given how southern Labour's actual (as opposed to imagined) coalition is, how the hell does his agenda help?

    Apart from that, 10/10 no notes Andy.

    To be fair, that is quite a strong positive for Burnham. Labour really does feel like the London party at the moment and losing that perception is going to be important.
    A tax on southern property wealth tax will keep Labour out of power for a generation.
    Just being the London party will also destroy them.

    I've done the maths on a flat council tax rate and you'd be surprised by how few London properties would actually see their bills go up. The current system is so unfair it's really only £1 million+ properties that would see an increase, while 10s of millions of households across the rest of the country would see significant tax cuts. In somewhere like Middlesbrough you're talking 80%.

    I live in Edinburgh, one of the most expensive parts of the country, and my council tax bill would be slightly less than it is now at 0.5%.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,059

    nico67 said:

    Burnham has always been high on his own supply.

    It’s only going to get worse when he goes to the Labour Conference . They’ll be laying down palm branches as he arrives . The media will go into full Labours saviour has arrived . Most of the public probably don’t realize that Burnhams got no chance of the Leadership unless an MP stands down to give him a run at a seat and the choice of seats where Labour actually could win in the present climate isn’t exactly high . There’s also the chance that Burnham is seen as a backstabbing Judas and even if he gets into the Commons his leadership ambitions crash and burn .
    So, just a bit of idle fun:

    Powell loses deputy leadership. Resigns her seat saying 'she's done with politics'. Her mate Andy gets the nomination and wins the by-election. He forces a leadership vote by getting 80 MPs to sign for a contest. Andy wins leadership. Powell is given her reward in form of a peerage and a place back in Cabinet. Starmer immediately resigns his seat and the seat is lost in subsequent by-election to Green-Corbyn Alliance candidate immediately plunging Burnham's new administration into crisis. The bond markets meltdown.

    Powell winning and Burnham’s prospects are, however, heavily correlated
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,036
    When Burnham last stood for the leadership I thought he was a bit of a lightweight. Also came across as a kind of professional Northerner in a way that I found rather grating. Has he improved that much in the meantime?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,191
    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of other questions.

    What Labour politician thinks it's a good idea to launch a leadership campaign in the Daily Bleeding Telegraph?

    Given how southern Labour's actual (as opposed to imagined) coalition is, how the hell does his agenda help?

    Apart from that, 10/10 no notes Andy.

    To be fair, that is quite a strong positive for Burnham. Labour really does feel like the London party at the moment and losing that perception is going to be important.
    A tax on southern property wealth tax will keep Labour out of power for a generation.
    That's what they always say.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,654

    nico67 said:

    Burnham has always been high on his own supply.

    It’s only going to get worse when he goes to the Labour Conference . They’ll be laying down palm branches as he arrives . The media will go into full Labours saviour has arrived . Most of the public probably don’t realize that Burnhams got no chance of the Leadership unless an MP stands down to give him a run at a seat and the choice of seats where Labour actually could win in the present climate isn’t exactly high . There’s also the chance that Burnham is seen as a backstabbing Judas and even if he gets into the Commons his leadership ambitions crash and burn .
    So, just a bit of idle fun:

    Powell loses deputy leadership. Resigns her seat saying 'she's done with politics'. Her mate Andy gets the nomination and wins the by-election. He forces a leadership vote by getting 80 MPs to sign for a contest. Andy wins leadership. Powell is given her reward in form of a peerage and a place back in Cabinet. Starmer immediately resigns his seat and the seat is lost in subsequent by-election to Green-Corbyn Alliance candidate immediately plunging Burnham's new administration into crisis. The bond markets meltdown.

    Labour also lose the by election for Greater Manchester mayor causing a collapse in their red wall support to Corbyn/Polanski.
    'Burnham is a w*****' rings around Anfield
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,686
    Ukraine claims to have shot down a Russian SU-34.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,654

    When Burnham last stood for the leadership I thought he was a bit of a lightweight. Also came across as a kind of professional Northerner in a way that I found rather grating. Has he improved that much in the meantime?

    He looks like someone playing Derek Hatton in a shit ITV biopic
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,392
    edited September 25
    nico67 said:

    Burnham has always been high on his own supply.

    It’s only going to get worse when he goes to the Labour Conference . They’ll be laying down palm branches as he arrives . The media will go into full Labours saviour has arrived . Most of the public probably don’t realize that Burnhams got no chance of the Leadership unless an MP stands down to give him a run at a seat and the choice of seats where Labour actually could win in the present climate isn’t exactly high . There’s also the chance that Burnham is seen as a backstabbing Judas and even if he gets into the Commons his leadership ambitions crash and burn .
    I just remember how badly Burham crashed out of national level politics the last time.

    Now children, let me tell the tale of President Alan Garcia. He was elected Pres. of Peru. Even by Peruvian standards his term in office was considered interesting. Corruption, incompetence, economic collapse.

    Even Alan Garcia admitted he had been a disaster.

    Some little time later, Alan Garcia ran for President again. He proposed that he had learnt his lesson. That he had changed. The Peruvian people - bless their cotton socks - with forgiveness and pity - relegated him.

    Guess what happened, children?

    To this day, it is harder to find people who admit to voting for Alan Garcia a second time, than it was to find Nazis in 1946.
  • Good morning

    I see no path for Burnham to PM, but what this is doing is creating division and angst within labour and no 10

    Their conference is going to be all about Burnham and Farage, and the media will be entirely focused on their perceived 'gotchas'

    In fairness to Burnham he has been an excellent mayor for Manchester, and he is a Northern MP challenging the London centric labour
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,476

    When Burnham last stood for the leadership I thought he was a bit of a lightweight. Also came across as a kind of professional Northerner in a way that I found rather grating. Has he improved that much in the meantime?

    All he does is constantly whine and he’s saying that his leadership ambitions are Westminster speculation! Really !
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,466

    nico67 said:

    Burnham has always been high on his own supply.

    It’s only going to get worse when he goes to the Labour Conference . They’ll be laying down palm branches as he arrives . The media will go into full Labours saviour has arrived . Most of the public probably don’t realize that Burnhams got no chance of the Leadership unless an MP stands down to give him a run at a seat and the choice of seats where Labour actually could win in the present climate isn’t exactly high . There’s also the chance that Burnham is seen as a backstabbing Judas and even if he gets into the Commons his leadership ambitions crash and burn .
    I just remember how badly Burham crashed out of national level politics the last time.

    Now children, let me tell the tale of President Alan Garcia. He was elected Pres. of Peru. Even by Peruvian standards his term in office was considered interesting. Corruption, incompetence, economic collapse.

    Even Alan Garcia admitted he had been a disaster.

    Some little time later, Alan Garcia ran for President again. He proposed that he had learnt his lesson. That he had changed. The Peruvian people - bless their cotton socks - with forgiveness and pity - relegated him.

    Guess what happened, children?

    To this day, it is harder to find people who admit to voting for Alan Garcia a second time, than it was to find Nazis in 1946.
    Incompetence in office is no bar to re-election, see Trump for a great example.

    It's what keeps Johnson going too...
  • nico67 said:

    Burnham has always been high on his own supply.

    It’s only going to get worse when he goes to the Labour Conference . They’ll be laying down palm branches as he arrives . The media will go into full Labours saviour has arrived . Most of the public probably don’t realize that Burnhams got no chance of the Leadership unless an MP stands down to give him a run at a seat and the choice of seats where Labour actually could win in the present climate isn’t exactly high . There’s also the chance that Burnham is seen as a backstabbing Judas and even if he gets into the Commons his leadership ambitions crash and burn .
    So, just a bit of idle fun:

    Powell loses deputy leadership. Resigns her seat saying 'she's done with politics'. Her mate Andy gets the nomination and wins the by-election. He forces a leadership vote by getting 80 MPs to sign for a contest. Andy wins leadership. Powell is given her reward in form of a peerage and a place back in Cabinet. Starmer immediately resigns his seat and the seat is lost in subsequent by-election to Green-Corbyn Alliance candidate immediately plunging Burnham's new administration into crisis. The bond markets meltdown.

    Labour also lose the by election for Greater Manchester mayor causing a collapse in their red wall support to Corbyn/Polanski.
    'Burnham is a w*****' rings around Anfield
    Burnham gives an interview in the Sun to explain his workings.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,654
    I winder if Nads will heed the call of the wild Boris stag and undefect?
  • Good morning

    I see no path for Burnham to PM, but what this is doing is creating division and angst within labour and no 10

    Their conference is going to be all about Burnham and Farage, and the media will be entirely focused on their perceived 'gotchas'

    In fairness to Burnham he has been an excellent mayor for Manchester, and he is a Northern MP challenging the London centric labour

    There is a path, @rottenborough set one out a few posts back.

    Here’s the reality check - it almost doesn’t matter if it’s Burnham or not. We have all moved onto who replaces Starmer and how it happens.

    Starmer is done.
  • nico67 said:

    Burnham has always been high on his own supply.

    It’s only going to get worse when he goes to the Labour Conference . They’ll be laying down palm branches as he arrives . The media will go into full Labours saviour has arrived . Most of the public probably don’t realize that Burnhams got no chance of the Leadership unless an MP stands down to give him a run at a seat and the choice of seats where Labour actually could win in the present climate isn’t exactly high . There’s also the chance that Burnham is seen as a backstabbing Judas and even if he gets into the Commons his leadership ambitions crash and burn .
    So, just a bit of idle fun:

    Powell loses deputy leadership. Resigns her seat saying 'she's done with politics'. Her mate Andy gets the nomination and wins the by-election. He forces a leadership vote by getting 80 MPs to sign for a contest. Andy wins leadership. Powell is given her reward in form of a peerage and a place back in Cabinet. Starmer immediately resigns his seat and the seat is lost in subsequent by-election to Green-Corbyn Alliance candidate immediately plunging Burnham's new administration into crisis. The bond markets meltdown.

    Labour also lose the by election for Greater Manchester mayor causing a collapse in their red wall support to Corbyn/Polanski.
    'Burnham is a w*****' rings around Anfield
    He's very popular at Anfield and has been since 2009.

    Dominic Grieve, Theresa May, and David Cameron are also very popular with Liverpool fans.
  • When Burnham last stood for the leadership I thought he was a bit of a lightweight. Also came across as a kind of professional Northerner in a way that I found rather grating. Has he improved that much in the meantime?

    'Professional Northerner in a way I found rather grating '

    Change that to Professional Londoner and you have a point
  • nico67 said:

    Burnham has always been high on his own supply.

    It’s only going to get worse when he goes to the Labour Conference . They’ll be laying down palm branches as he arrives . The media will go into full Labours saviour has arrived . Most of the public probably don’t realize that Burnhams got no chance of the Leadership unless an MP stands down to give him a run at a seat and the choice of seats where Labour actually could win in the present climate isn’t exactly high . There’s also the chance that Burnham is seen as a backstabbing Judas and even if he gets into the Commons his leadership ambitions crash and burn .
    So, just a bit of idle fun:

    Powell loses deputy leadership. Resigns her seat saying 'she's done with politics'. Her mate Andy gets the nomination and wins the by-election. He forces a leadership vote by getting 80 MPs to sign for a contest. Andy wins leadership. Powell is given her reward in form of a peerage and a place back in Cabinet. Starmer immediately resigns his seat and the seat is lost in subsequent by-election to Green-Corbyn Alliance candidate immediately plunging Burnham's new administration into crisis. The bond markets meltdown.

    Labour also lose the by election for Greater Manchester mayor causing a collapse in their red wall support to Corbyn/Polanski.
    'Burnham is a w*****' rings around Anfield
    That's not new - He supports Everton !!!!!!
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,476

    Good morning

    I see no path for Burnham to PM, but what this is doing is creating division and angst within labour and no 10

    Their conference is going to be all about Burnham and Farage, and the media will be entirely focused on their perceived 'gotchas'

    In fairness to Burnham he has been an excellent mayor for Manchester, and he is a Northern MP challenging the London centric labour

    There is a path, @rottenborough set one out a few posts back.

    Here’s the reality check - it almost doesn’t matter if it’s Burnham or not. We have all moved onto who replaces Starmer and how it happens.

    Starmer is done.
    Very few politicians give up power voluntarily. Starmer will desperately try and hang on and I expect will be ruthless against those trying to oust him .
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,392

    Ukraine claims to have shot down a Russian SU-34.

    #RedStormRisingWasRight


    You are telling us that NATO has command of the air," Alekseyev said.
    "No, they do not. Neither side does. Our surface-to-air missiles deny them the ability to control the air over the battle line, and their fighters--helped by their surface-to-air missiles, and ours!—deny it to us. The sky over the battlefield belongs to no one." Except the dead, the Air Force General thought
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,862
    edited September 25
    There's a third question: why does a Prime Minister need to be a Member of Parliament? If he commands the confidence of a majority of MPs, my understanding of the uncodified constitution is that the King can appoint him, whether or not he is an MP himself. The usual answer given is that the PM needs to appear at PMQs and in important debates, which non-MPs aren't allowed to, but it would be easy enough to change the rules in the Commons to allow this if necessary. It might not even need primary legislation.

    Of course MPs would have to make this change and would be damaging their own closed shop if they allowed non-MPs to be PM, so it won't happen. And it's certainly not worth it for the trivial, if any, gain to the country in changing one incompetent Labour dud for another.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,043
    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of other questions.

    What Labour politician thinks it's a good idea to launch a leadership campaign in the Daily Bleeding Telegraph?

    Given how southern Labour's actual (as opposed to imagined) coalition is, how the hell does his agenda help?

    Apart from that, 10/10 no notes Andy.

    To be fair, that is quite a strong positive for Burnham. Labour really does feel like the London party at the moment and losing that perception is going to be important.
    A tax on southern property wealth tax will keep Labour out of power for a generation.
    So? It’s the right thing to do
  • Good morning

    I see no path for Burnham to PM, but what this is doing is creating division and angst within labour and no 10

    Their conference is going to be all about Burnham and Farage, and the media will be entirely focused on their perceived 'gotchas'

    In fairness to Burnham he has been an excellent mayor for Manchester, and he is a Northern MP challenging the London centric labour

    There is a path, @rottenborough set one out a few posts back.

    Here’s the reality check - it almost doesn’t matter if it’s Burnham or not. We have all moved onto who replaces Starmer and how it happens.

    Starmer is done.
    Last night Adam Boulton on Sky said Starmer was in big trouble

    It does make you wonder if landslide victory is a good thing

    And in today's political climate @rottenborough who knows ?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,405
    Did we do…

    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-09-24/boris-johnson-accuses-nigel-farage-of-extremely-dangerous-stance-on-ukraine

    Boris Johnson accuses Nigel Farage of 'extremely dangerous' stance on Ukraine war


    Meanwhile, Farage is repeating the Eastern Europeans eat swans thing.
  • Good morning

    I see no path for Burnham to PM, but what this is doing is creating division and angst within labour and no 10

    Their conference is going to be all about Burnham and Farage, and the media will be entirely focused on their perceived 'gotchas'

    In fairness to Burnham he has been an excellent mayor for Manchester, and he is a Northern MP challenging the London centric labour

    There is a path, @rottenborough set one out a few posts back.

    Here’s the reality check - it almost doesn’t matter if it’s Burnham or not. We have all moved onto who replaces Starmer and how it happens.

    Starmer is done.
    Last night Adam Boulton on Sky said Starmer was in big trouble

    It does make you wonder if landslide victory is a good thing

    And in today's political climate @rottenborough who knows ?
    You are Francis Pym and I claim my five pounds.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,325
    edited September 25
    IanB2 said:

    nico67 said:

    Burnham has always been high on his own supply.

    It’s only going to get worse when he goes to the Labour Conference . They’ll be laying down palm branches as he arrives . The media will go into full Labours saviour has arrived . Most of the public probably don’t realize that Burnhams got no chance of the Leadership unless an MP stands down to give him a run at a seat and the choice of seats where Labour actually could win in the present climate isn’t exactly high . There’s also the chance that Burnham is seen as a backstabbing Judas and even if he gets into the Commons his leadership ambitions crash and burn .
    So, just a bit of idle fun:

    Powell loses deputy leadership. Resigns her seat saying 'she's done with politics'. Her mate Andy gets the nomination and wins the by-election. He forces a leadership vote by getting 80 MPs to sign for a contest. Andy wins leadership. Powell is given her reward in form of a peerage and a place back in Cabinet. Starmer immediately resigns his seat and the seat is lost in subsequent by-election to Green-Corbyn Alliance candidate immediately plunging Burnham's new administration into crisis. The bond markets meltdown.

    Powell winning and Burnham’s prospects are, however, heavily correlated
    Powell wins and immediately resigns her seat saying she wants to concentrate full time on campaigning as Deputy across the country.

    Burnham gives her a peerage and Cabinet post and Powell says she has done all the campaigning she needs to do now.

    I'm assuming the Deputy doesn't actually have to be an MP?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,838

    Did we do…

    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-09-24/boris-johnson-accuses-nigel-farage-of-extremely-dangerous-stance-on-ukraine

    Boris Johnson accuses Nigel Farage of 'extremely dangerous' stance on Ukraine war


    Meanwhile, Farage is repeating the Eastern Europeans eat swans thing.

    He insisted that Britain must be "strong and determined" in its support for Ukraine rather than sounding "morally equivocal and transparent evil" like Russia's invasion.


    Is this grammar?
  • Fishing said:

    There's a third question: why does a Prime Minister need to be a Member of Parliament? If he commands the confidence of a majority of MPs, my understanding of the uncodified constitution is that the King can appoint him, whether or not he is an MP himself. The usual answer given is that the PM needs to appear at PMQs and in important debates, which non-MPs aren't allowed to, but it would be easy enough to change the rules in the Commons to allow this if necessary. It might not even need primary legislation.

    Of course MPs would have to make this change and would be damaging their own closed shop if they allowed non-MPs to be PM, so it won't happen. And it's certainly not worth it for the trivial, if any, gain to the country in changing one incompetent Labour dud for another.

    They do not need to be MPs - no minister does. This is how our government works after the dissolution of parliament for an election.

    It is convention which dictates the PM should be an MP. Not the law…
  • Did we do…

    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-09-24/boris-johnson-accuses-nigel-farage-of-extremely-dangerous-stance-on-ukraine

    Boris Johnson accuses Nigel Farage of 'extremely dangerous' stance on Ukraine war


    Meanwhile, Farage is repeating the Eastern Europeans eat swans thing.

    I had dinner with a political strategist last night, he's identified one thing problem for Reform/Farage.

    They are getting high on their own supply, they are acting like they have the support of the majority in the country, when if there were an election tomorrow, Farage would likely end up with a lower vote share/votes than Starmer in 2024.
  • Did we do…

    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-09-24/boris-johnson-accuses-nigel-farage-of-extremely-dangerous-stance-on-ukraine

    Boris Johnson accuses Nigel Farage of 'extremely dangerous' stance on Ukraine war


    Meanwhile, Farage is repeating the Eastern Europeans eat swans thing.

    Boris taking on Farage and Dorries wondering what have I done ?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,409
    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of other questions.

    What Labour politician thinks it's a good idea to launch a leadership campaign in the Daily Bleeding Telegraph?

    Given how southern Labour's actual (as opposed to imagined) coalition is, how the hell does his agenda help?

    Apart from that, 10/10 no notes Andy.

    To be fair, that is quite a strong positive for Burnham. Labour really does feel like the London party at the moment and losing that perception is going to be important.
    A tax on southern property wealth tax will keep Labour out of power for a generation.
    It's probably the only alternative to implementing austerity as a way to balance the books, and that would keep Labour out of power for two generations, at least.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,838

    Did we do…

    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-09-24/boris-johnson-accuses-nigel-farage-of-extremely-dangerous-stance-on-ukraine

    Boris Johnson accuses Nigel Farage of 'extremely dangerous' stance on Ukraine war


    Meanwhile, Farage is repeating the Eastern Europeans eat swans thing.

    I had dinner with a political strategist last night, he's identified one thing problem for Reform/Farage.

    They are getting high on their own supply, they are acting like they have the support of the majority in the country, when if there were an election tomorrow, Farage would likely end up with a lower vote share/votes than Starmer in 2024.
    Does he think we're at peak Farage?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,409

    Ukraine claims to have shot down a Russian SU-34.

    It's an interesting one. It was using guided aerial bombs on Zaporizhia, something that has happened frequently in recent months. So why was this one shot down?

    Either the Russian pilot made a mistake, and strayed within range of Ukrainian air defences, or the Ukrainians improved their air defence coverage. If it's the latter it might mean that Zaporizhia is now protected from these guided bomb attacks, which would be great.
  • Did we do…

    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-09-24/boris-johnson-accuses-nigel-farage-of-extremely-dangerous-stance-on-ukraine

    Boris Johnson accuses Nigel Farage of 'extremely dangerous' stance on Ukraine war


    Meanwhile, Farage is repeating the Eastern Europeans eat swans thing.

    I had dinner with a political strategist last night, he's identified one thing problem for Reform/Farage.

    They are getting high on their own supply, they are acting like they have the support of the majority in the country, when if there were an election tomorrow, Farage would likely end up with a lower vote share/votes than Starmer in 2024.
    They remind me so much of the SNP last year. Their GE campaign was FOR SCOTLAND - and people on the doorsteps repeatedly said they found this insulting, s if not voting for them makes you against Scotland. Their vote collapsed 40%.

    Reform are supported by various groups, including what I now dub the Plastic Patriots. These are the English version of the cybernats- loud, all over social media, projecting that they are the majority. They are not.

    When the flags come down - and they will - there will be an inevitable deflation of the plastic patriots. At which point people start to look at what Farage is saying and think “hang on”. We’ve seen the start of that this week.

    But as long as the government continues to be shit and the Tories continue to be a sham this is going to continue, succour given to Farage and the plastics and the bigots.
  • Did we do…

    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-09-24/boris-johnson-accuses-nigel-farage-of-extremely-dangerous-stance-on-ukraine

    Boris Johnson accuses Nigel Farage of 'extremely dangerous' stance on Ukraine war


    Meanwhile, Farage is repeating the Eastern Europeans eat swans thing.

    I had dinner with a political strategist last night, he's identified one thing problem for Reform/Farage.

    They are getting high on their own supply, they are acting like they have the support of the majority in the country, when if there were an election tomorrow, Farage would likely end up with a lower vote share/votes than Starmer in 2024.
    Does he think we're at peak Farage?
    Not yet.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,830

    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of other questions.

    What Labour politician thinks it's a good idea to launch a leadership campaign in the Daily Bleeding Telegraph?

    Given how southern Labour's actual (as opposed to imagined) coalition is, how the hell does his agenda help?

    Apart from that, 10/10 no notes Andy.

    To be fair, that is quite a strong positive for Burnham. Labour really does feel like the London party at the moment and losing that perception is going to be important.
    A tax on southern property wealth tax will keep Labour out of power for a generation.
    So? It’s the right thing to do
    Suspect it would be irreversible if paired with ending council tax and stamp duty.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,654
    edited September 25
    I took a further look at last night's Theford by election result and its remarkably similar to the May by election in neighbouring Thetford Priory. The two wards are very similar as are the results (right down to LD being roughly LD plus Green in May)
    Suggests nothing much has changed since May and the very stable polling is where public opinion genuinely sits at this time.

    In a GE, Reform would take SW Norfolk easily on about 40%. LabCon would be on about 20% each based on last night. The Truss shadow has not departed yet. I would expect Con to claw their way back to 30% here but right now I cant see them winning this back
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,205
    edited September 25
    Labour's problem (not the only ones, but they are the ones in charge) is the team is very weak and they have done bugger all planning (its cuts, then spending, then cuts, then spending). Changing the captain, it just papers over the massive cracks.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,868
    edited September 25

    Did we do…

    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-09-24/boris-johnson-accuses-nigel-farage-of-extremely-dangerous-stance-on-ukraine

    Boris Johnson accuses Nigel Farage of 'extremely dangerous' stance on Ukraine war


    Meanwhile, Farage is repeating the Eastern Europeans eat swans thing.

    A Royal Parks spokesperson said yesterday this is untrue. Farage has made a series of absolute howlers over the last fortnight. Fortunately there have only been reported by a limited number broadcasters, so no harm done.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,821
    “Today, we’re making history again. We’re flying wing to wing, Japanese F-15s and German Eurofighters,” said General Holger Neumann during the handshake on the open ramp of the A-400M with General Morita.”
    https://x.com/thenewarea51/status/1970886670334709902

    The "again" is a little unfortunate.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,503

    Did we do…

    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-09-24/boris-johnson-accuses-nigel-farage-of-extremely-dangerous-stance-on-ukraine

    Boris Johnson accuses Nigel Farage of 'extremely dangerous' stance on Ukraine war


    Meanwhile, Farage is repeating the Eastern Europeans eat swans thing.

    I had dinner with a political strategist last night, he's identified one thing problem for Reform/Farage.

    They are getting high on their own supply, they are acting like they have the support of the majority in the country, when if there were an election tomorrow, Farage would likely end up with a lower vote share/votes than Starmer in 2024.
    And quite easy to imagine them being squeezed in a hypothetical election campaign starting tomorrow.

    They would be attacked from all sides. From Labour because they are their competition for leading the next government. From the Tories because they face an existential threat of being replaced as the main party of the right. From the Lib Dems because they are diametrically opposed on nearly everything and it plays well with their supporters.

    Anti-Reform voting means 30% of the vote could be 350+ seats as electoral calculus predicts, but it could equally be 150. It all depends on how efficiently the others parties' vote is concentrated.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,112
    edited September 25

    IanB2 said:

    nico67 said:

    Burnham has always been high on his own supply.

    It’s only going to get worse when he goes to the Labour Conference . They’ll be laying down palm branches as he arrives . The media will go into full Labours saviour has arrived . Most of the public probably don’t realize that Burnhams got no chance of the Leadership unless an MP stands down to give him a run at a seat and the choice of seats where Labour actually could win in the present climate isn’t exactly high . There’s also the chance that Burnham is seen as a backstabbing Judas and even if he gets into the Commons his leadership ambitions crash and burn .
    So, just a bit of idle fun:

    Powell loses deputy leadership. Resigns her seat saying 'she's done with politics'. Her mate Andy gets the nomination and wins the by-election. He forces a leadership vote by getting 80 MPs to sign for a contest. Andy wins leadership. Powell is given her reward in form of a peerage and a place back in Cabinet. Starmer immediately resigns his seat and the seat is lost in subsequent by-election to Green-Corbyn Alliance candidate immediately plunging Burnham's new administration into crisis. The bond markets meltdown.

    Powell winning and Burnham’s prospects are, however, heavily correlated
    Powell wins and immediately resigns her seat saying she wants to concentrate full time on campaigning as Deputy across the country.

    Burnham gives her a peerage and Cabinet post and Powell says she has done all the campaigning she needs to do now.

    I'm assuming the Deputy doesn't actually have to be an MP?
    The Labour Party rule book says the DL must be a member of the PLP, and I doubt they'd change the rules.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,060
    I am starting to look at the plan for next year for my companies.

    Currnetly Im not doing anything much but sit on my cash and assume the worst.

    How that prat Reeves can once again stop all economic activity for three months is lamentable.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,523

    nico67 said:

    Burnham has always been high on his own supply.

    It’s only going to get worse when he goes to the Labour Conference . They’ll be laying down palm branches as he arrives . The media will go into full Labours saviour has arrived . Most of the public probably don’t realize that Burnhams got no chance of the Leadership unless an MP stands down to give him a run at a seat and the choice of seats where Labour actually could win in the present climate isn’t exactly high . There’s also the chance that Burnham is seen as a backstabbing Judas and even if he gets into the Commons his leadership ambitions crash and burn .
    So, just a bit of idle fun:

    Powell loses deputy leadership. Resigns her seat saying 'she's done with politics'. Her mate Andy gets the nomination and wins the by-election. He forces a leadership vote by getting 80 MPs to sign for a contest. Andy wins leadership. Powell is given her reward in form of a peerage and a place back in Cabinet. Starmer immediately resigns his seat and the seat is lost in subsequent by-election to Green-Corbyn Alliance candidate immediately plunging Burnham's new administration into crisis. The bond markets meltdown.

    I admire your optimism. I really can't see it going as well as that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,821
    That is ... economically insane.

    In case you're not following French news, the economist who's influencing the left wing tax thinking and program is advocating for a 8% wealth tax.
    https://x.com/jeuasommenulle/status/1970802535268339828
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,830
    Here's an idea. Labour should announce scrapping Council tax for a 0.5%ish charge on property values, subject to a referendum.

    Send every house in country info on how much they pay now and what they would pay in future. Make sure that 75% will see lower tax bill.

    Tories and Reform will inevitably oppose and 75% of people will see that Labour lowered their tax bill.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,038
    That the near 400 Labour MPs regard themselves as more useless than Burnham is pretty telling. (Or possibly inaccurate)
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,725

    I am starting to look at the plan for next year for my companies.

    Currnetly Im not doing anything much but sit on my cash and assume the worst.

    How that prat Reeves can once again stop all economic activity for three months is lamentable.

    Still two months to go!

    It's made worse this year as the Budget is one month later than last year!
  • Government considers financial support for JLR suppliers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62nv0xx32go

    Pb scooped the BBC (and the government?) by a week or so.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,826
    edited September 25
    Morning, PB.

    What a shame that Radio 3's morning programme is becoming more and more indistinguishable from Classic FM's. Under Tim "Pepsi" Davie, BBC Radio's distinctiveness may start to go the way of BBC TV's.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,205
    edited September 25
    Nigelb said:

    That is ... economically insane.

    In case you're not following French news, the economist who's influencing the left wing tax thinking and program is advocating for a 8% wealth tax.
    https://x.com/jeuasommenulle/status/1970802535268339828

    Is his name Gary Stevenson?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,071
    It's surprising they aren't still pushing David Miliband.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,301

    I am starting to look at the plan for next year for my companies.

    Currnetly Im not doing anything much but sit on my cash and assume the worst.

    How that prat Reeves can once again stop all economic activity for three months is lamentable.

    Why would you plan if you don’t know what the landscape is going to be
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,523

    Government considers financial support for JLR suppliers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62nv0xx32go

    Pb scooped the BBC (and the government?) by a week or so.

    The speed with which the government has acted on this is lamentable. We are probably within 10 days of production restarting and we are still talking about possible support. Many of the suppliers will have been without work for weeks already and for some it is probably too late.

    I think the government needs to give much more serious consideration to cyber attacks, both in prevention and amelioration when they occur. We have seen a few major UK companies very badly damaged by this already. It is unlikely to stop. The economic effects are sufficiently large to engage the national interest.
  • AnneJGP said:

    It's surprising they aren't still pushing David Miliband.

    Isn't Ed now the new man waiting in the wings?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,821

    Morning, PB.

    What a shame that Radio 3's morning programme is becoming more and more indistinguishable from Classic FM's. Under Tim "Pepsii" Davie, BBC Radio's distinctiveness may start to go the way of BBC TV's.

    I am unashamedly fond of Bach before 7, though.
    Not least because it's timed just right to avoid the R4 trailers for their own programs.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,066
    Nigelb said:

    That is ... economically insane.

    In case you're not following French news, the economist who's influencing the left wing tax thinking and program is advocating for a 8% wealth tax.
    https://x.com/jeuasommenulle/status/1970802535268339828

    "Bonjour, mons amis. Just pull your boat onto the beach and we'll start processing your bank transfers..."
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,392
    a

    Ukraine claims to have shot down a Russian SU-34.

    It's an interesting one. It was using guided aerial bombs on Zaporizhia, something that has happened frequently in recent months. So why was this one shot down?

    Either the Russian pilot made a mistake, and strayed within range of Ukrainian air defences, or the Ukrainians improved their air defence coverage. If it's the latter it might mean that Zaporizhia is now protected from these guided bomb attacks, which would be great.
    Some options

    - SAM trap. Provide an inviting target. The Ukrainians kept the search radar off, and fired a SAM on a lofted trajectory. They used other sensors to detect the SU-34. Either the missile homes in using its own active radar, or the Ukranians switched on the missile battery guidance radar at the last second.
    - The max range of SAM missiles varies by versions. A newer version of Patriot than they previously had?
    - They got an SA-5 working ( very long range)
    - Mix of the above plus cobbling together a bigger booster stage on the missile to throw it further.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,301
    DavidL said:

    Government considers financial support for JLR suppliers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62nv0xx32go

    Pb scooped the BBC (and the government?) by a week or so.

    The speed with which the government has acted on this is lamentable. We are probably within 10 days of production restarting and we are still talking about possible support. Many of the suppliers will have been without work for weeks already and for some it is probably too late.

    I think the government needs to give much more serious consideration to cyber attacks, both in prevention and amelioration when they occur. We have seen a few major UK companies very badly damaged by this already. It is unlikely to stop. The economic effects are sufficiently large to engage the national interest.
    Perhaps these suppliers who are either all JLR or mostly JLR supply would do better seeking to diversify in future.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,523
    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Government considers financial support for JLR suppliers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62nv0xx32go

    Pb scooped the BBC (and the government?) by a week or so.

    The speed with which the government has acted on this is lamentable. We are probably within 10 days of production restarting and we are still talking about possible support. Many of the suppliers will have been without work for weeks already and for some it is probably too late.

    I think the government needs to give much more serious consideration to cyber attacks, both in prevention and amelioration when they occur. We have seen a few major UK companies very badly damaged by this already. It is unlikely to stop. The economic effects are sufficiently large to engage the national interest.
    Perhaps these suppliers who are either all JLR or mostly JLR supply would do better seeking to diversify in future.
    Our domestic car manufacturing is somewhat limited in options. Exports would always be nice of course.
  • Did we do…

    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-09-24/boris-johnson-accuses-nigel-farage-of-extremely-dangerous-stance-on-ukraine

    Boris Johnson accuses Nigel Farage of 'extremely dangerous' stance on Ukraine war


    Meanwhile, Farage is repeating the Eastern Europeans eat swans thing.

    A Royal Parks spokesperson said yesterday this is untrue. Farage has made a series of absolute howlers over the last fortnight. Fortunately there have only been reported by a limited number broadcasters, so no harm done.
    A quick google finds some old swan stories, for example:-

    From 2003
    Missing swans may have been stolen for food, say police
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/jul/04/markoliver


    From 2013
    Police hunt swan killers over fears birds are 'being stolen to eat'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9800839/Police-hunt-swan-killers-over-fears-birds-are-being-stolen-to-eat.html (£££)

    As I suggested yesterday, this is side of the bus stuff rather than a gotcha that will kill off Farage's chances. Sure, he has got the details wrong but ordinary voters will vaguely remember these stories from the past, or find them if they search. For them, Farage speaks the truth, or at least the truthiness, while his opponents prevaricate.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,821
    DavidL said:

    Government considers financial support for JLR suppliers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62nv0xx32go

    Pb scooped the BBC (and the government?) by a week or so.

    The speed with which the government has acted on this is lamentable. We are probably within 10 days of production restarting and we are still talking about possible support. Many of the suppliers will have been without work for weeks already and for some it is probably too late.

    I think the government needs to give much more serious consideration to cyber attacks, both in prevention and amelioration when they occur. We have seen a few major UK companies very badly damaged by this already. It is unlikely to stop. The economic effects are sufficiently large to engage the national interest.
    They are just getting around to working that out, too.

    The idea for JLR is to pay the suppliers to stockpile parts. That's not a thing which would be practical for more than a few weeks at most, and risks leaving them with a glut of stock which they'll then struggle to sell.

    I think the reality is that there's no great way to mitigate a very lengthy disruption to a large company's business, other than to prevent it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,523
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Government considers financial support for JLR suppliers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62nv0xx32go

    Pb scooped the BBC (and the government?) by a week or so.

    The speed with which the government has acted on this is lamentable. We are probably within 10 days of production restarting and we are still talking about possible support. Many of the suppliers will have been without work for weeks already and for some it is probably too late.

    I think the government needs to give much more serious consideration to cyber attacks, both in prevention and amelioration when they occur. We have seen a few major UK companies very badly damaged by this already. It is unlikely to stop. The economic effects are sufficiently large to engage the national interest.
    They are just getting around to working that out, too.

    The idea for JLR is to pay the suppliers to stockpile parts. That's not a thing which would be practical for more than a few weeks at most, and risks leaving them with a glut of stock which they'll then struggle to sell.

    I think the reality is that there's no great way to mitigate a very lengthy disruption to a large company's business, other than to prevent it.
    IANAE on this but it seems to me that developing the skills at GCHQ to both prevent and repair cyber attacks is something we really ought to be quite good at. And very much in the national interest.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,301
    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Government considers financial support for JLR suppliers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62nv0xx32go

    Pb scooped the BBC (and the government?) by a week or so.

    The speed with which the government has acted on this is lamentable. We are probably within 10 days of production restarting and we are still talking about possible support. Many of the suppliers will have been without work for weeks already and for some it is probably too late.

    I think the government needs to give much more serious consideration to cyber attacks, both in prevention and amelioration when they occur. We have seen a few major UK companies very badly damaged by this already. It is unlikely to stop. The economic effects are sufficiently large to engage the national interest.
    Perhaps these suppliers who are either all JLR or mostly JLR supply would do better seeking to diversify in future.
    Our domestic car manufacturing is somewhat limited in options. Exports would always be nice of course.
    Indeed it would. I would expect the real threat is to the tier 2 suppliers. Trade moulders, metal bashers and the like. Those supplying the Antolins and Draexlmaiers of the world who simply set up locally to support.

    The tier 2s could easily diversify.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,359
    AnneJGP said:

    It's surprising they aren't still pushing David Miliband.

    He’ll be the king across the water once Burnham has unseated Starmer.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,301
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Government considers financial support for JLR suppliers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62nv0xx32go

    Pb scooped the BBC (and the government?) by a week or so.

    The speed with which the government has acted on this is lamentable. We are probably within 10 days of production restarting and we are still talking about possible support. Many of the suppliers will have been without work for weeks already and for some it is probably too late.

    I think the government needs to give much more serious consideration to cyber attacks, both in prevention and amelioration when they occur. We have seen a few major UK companies very badly damaged by this already. It is unlikely to stop. The economic effects are sufficiently large to engage the national interest.
    They are just getting around to working that out, too.

    The idea for JLR is to pay the suppliers to stockpile parts. That's not a thing which would be practical for more than a few weeks at most, and risks leaving them with a glut of stock which they'll then struggle to sell.

    I think the reality is that there's no great way to mitigate a very lengthy disruption to a large company's business, other than to prevent it.
    Stockpiling parts is fine for says items but JLR trim has multiple colours in leather, stitching, plastics etc etc. it’s just not practical and when you have CPMs sequenced to line you cannot stockpile that just some of the parts
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,595
    Certainly unless Burnham wins a general election then talk of him replacing Starmer as PM is just that. However he remains the Prince across the water for Labour as polls show he has much higher net approval ratings from voters not only than Starmer but Farage and Badenoch too. Indeed had Burnham beaten Corbyn in 2015 to become Labour leader he may well have beaten May in the 2017 general election and become PM then. Electing Corbyn could well have given Labour an extra two terms in opposition however much the then membership loved him.

    Burnham also is offering a platform eg build more council homes, higher council tax for the most expensive homes and restore the 50p additional rate of income tax for the highest earners designed to appeal to voters Labour has lost to the Greens and potentially Your Party under Starmer. Even if economically they may not be so beneficial
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,359
    Nigelb said:

    Morning, PB.

    What a shame that Radio 3's morning programme is becoming more and more indistinguishable from Classic FM's. Under Tim "Pepsii" Davie, BBC Radio's distinctiveness may start to go the way of BBC TV's.

    I am unashamedly fond of Bach before 7, though.
    Not least because it's timed just right to avoid the R4 trailers for their own programs.
    Through even with that, I perceive some of the more imaginative dips into the cantatas have been replaced by predictable extracts from the Brandenburgs.
  • Did we do…

    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-09-24/boris-johnson-accuses-nigel-farage-of-extremely-dangerous-stance-on-ukraine

    Boris Johnson accuses Nigel Farage of 'extremely dangerous' stance on Ukraine war


    Meanwhile, Farage is repeating the Eastern Europeans eat swans thing.

    A Royal Parks spokesperson said yesterday this is untrue. Farage has made a series of absolute howlers over the last fortnight. Fortunately there have only been reported by a limited number broadcasters, so no harm done.
    A quick google finds some old swan stories, for example:-

    From 2003
    Missing swans may have been stolen for food, say police
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/jul/04/markoliver


    From 2013
    Police hunt swan killers over fears birds are 'being stolen to eat'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9800839/Police-hunt-swan-killers-over-fears-birds-are-being-stolen-to-eat.html (£££)

    As I suggested yesterday, this is side of the bus stuff rather than a gotcha that will kill off Farage's chances. Sure, he has got the details wrong but ordinary voters will vaguely remember these stories from the past, or find them if they search. For them, Farage speaks the truth, or at least the truthiness, while his opponents prevaricate.
    There was a story on Emmerdale Farm a couple of decades back about an immigrant taking ducks from the village pond.

    Perhaps more relevantly its pretty common to see people openly flouting 'no fishing' signs on park lakes.

    Which would add into the general social breakdown meme the BBC is reporting on:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0q751vlxw1o
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,226
    rkrkrk said:

    Here's an idea. Labour should announce scrapping Council tax for a 0.5%ish charge on property values, subject to a referendum.

    Send every house in country info on how much they pay now and what they would pay in future. Make sure that 75% will see lower tax bill.

    Tories and Reform will inevitably oppose and 75% of people will see that Labour lowered their tax bill.

    Starmer doesn't have the wherewithal to do this.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,595
    AnneJGP said:

    It's surprising they aren't still pushing David Miliband.

    He is earning $1 million a year in New York city so I doubt is interested and like Burnham also is not an MP
  • Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Government considers financial support for JLR suppliers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62nv0xx32go

    Pb scooped the BBC (and the government?) by a week or so.

    The speed with which the government has acted on this is lamentable. We are probably within 10 days of production restarting and we are still talking about possible support. Many of the suppliers will have been without work for weeks already and for some it is probably too late.

    I think the government needs to give much more serious consideration to cyber attacks, both in prevention and amelioration when they occur. We have seen a few major UK companies very badly damaged by this already. It is unlikely to stop. The economic effects are sufficiently large to engage the national interest.
    They are just getting around to working that out, too.

    The idea for JLR is to pay the suppliers to stockpile parts. That's not a thing which would be practical for more than a few weeks at most, and risks leaving them with a glut of stock which they'll then struggle to sell.

    I think the reality is that there's no great way to mitigate a very lengthy disruption to a large company's business, other than to prevent it.
    I wonder how much cyber protection and cyber insurance JLR had.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,546
    If there is one thing we have learned is that there is nothing that goes pear shaped for Labour that Starmer isn’t on record mocking whilst the Tories were in power.

    “ Keir Starmer has hit out at the “ridiculous, chaotic circus” of the Conservative leadership contest, as he pitched Labour in contrast as the party of sound money.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/23/keir-starmer-hits-out-ridiculous-chaotic-circus-tory-contest-leadership-labour

    “"The Tory leadership race hasn't even officially begun yet but the arms race of fantasy economics is well under way."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62122230

    “ Starmer barely needed to come up with his own attack lines, relying almost entirely on the bitter criticism directed by Tory leadership candidates against their own colleagues.”

    https://labourlist.org/2022/07/pmqs-starmer-seizes-on-tory-infighting-to-further-discredit-the-partys-record/
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