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  • Mr. Eagles, abstaining would be a ridiculous request, because they could simply renege at any time.

    An English Parliament is necessary. English votes for English laws is better than the status quo, though it does not go far enough, and needs backing up by legislation so Scottish MPs cannot interfere in non-Scots, devolved matters.

    I'm not a fan of an English Parliament.

    If the SNP renege, Dave simply takes back all powers from the Scottish Parliament and appoints someone like me as Viceroy of Scotland.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    Mr. Eagles, abstaining would be a ridiculous request, because they could simply renege at any time.

    An English Parliament is necessary. English votes for English laws is better than the status quo, though it does not go far enough, and needs backing up by legislation so Scottish MPs cannot interfere in non-Scots, devolved matters.

    I'm not a fan of an English Parliament.

    If the SNP renege, Dave simply takes back all powers from the Scottish Parliament and appoints someone like me as Viceroy of Scotland.
    I see we had the same idea!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    Neil said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Neil said:

    o/t - Some posters have asked how many candidates the Green party will stand in May. The stated target has been 75% (upgraded to 500 in a comment by Caroline Lucas). They are now fund raising specifically to stand more:

    http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/green-party-in-your-seat/

    It seems crowdfunding could be quite a game-changer for the Green party. A way of mobilising online / social media support into something practical. The Bristol West candidate recently raised nearly £10k that way. May not sound much to you but with HQ party funding he'll have more cash to spend on this contest than previous Green party candidates in target seats could have dreamed of.

    Do you want me to run as a candidate in North East Derbyshire for you :) ?
    I'd rather your gf did, she sounds like a better fit with the party's policy platform!
    Heh, probably true that :)
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.
    I'm suspicious of the reporting of the incident. Had the mob been reported as yelling "Chortle! Fop! Amused laughter!" it would have been more believable.

  • Neil said:

    o/t - Some posters have asked how many candidates the Green party will stand in May. The stated target has been 75% (upgraded to 500 in a comment by Caroline Lucas). They are now fund raising specifically to stand more:

    http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/green-party-in-your-seat/

    It seems crowdfunding could be quite a game-changer for the Green party. A way of mobilising online / social media support into something practical. The Bristol West candidate recently raised nearly £10k that way. May not sound much to you but with HQ party funding he'll have more cash to spend on this contest than previous Green party candidates in target seats could have dreamed of.

    Some of the pledge rewards are brilliant:
    Pledge £75 or more.

    Get invited to join your local candidate on a canvassing evening!
  • Mr. Dave, it's a sales tax.

    If I ran a bookie that made exactly 0 profit, turnover tax would mean I (effectively) make a loss. [I don't think VAT affects bookies].

    Yes, but sales revenue and turnover are the same thing.
    But with VAT you can reclaim most of your costs as a business. As you're not paying over just the turnover element, you're reducing it by offsetting your costs.

    So your analogy doesn't work.
    You can reclaim VAT paid on goods/services received.

    That is not 'most of your costs'.
    So you're agree, VAT isn't a turnover tax.
    It's a tax on sales revenue. If you can see a difference between that and turnover you've beaten me.
    I charge VAT to my customers. I then deduct any VAT that I have payed out and pass the remaining VAT to HMRC. It is not a charge on my revenue as such as I pass the cost on to my customers (who in turn off set it against any VAT that they have payed).

    A revenue tax would not be offset-able and would discourage high volume business in favour of low volume high value business models.
    Such a revenue tax with no offset for input costs would mean companies undertaking all parts of the value chain themselves to avoid paying revenue tax many times over as a product or service passed through various stages.

    The short term impact would be for end product providers to take over their suppliers. In the longer term there would be the decline of specialist firms and a fall in productivity as generalist, vertically integrated firms undertake all the stages in production.
  • Socrates said:

    @edmundintokyo

    The quote was "Labour will have a world-leading commitment in government to take all of the carbon out of our energy by 2030"

    I don't think that says anything meaningful at all. If you want to know whether he understands energy you'll have to look at an actual policy, not a random bit of conference navel fluff.

    PS. I should have guessed there wouldn't be an actual thing from the date. Real political things have shorter delivery dates. That one's five years longer than the Best Party's target for a drug-free parliament.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxBW4mPzv6E
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    @Neil Is seriously considering voting Lib Dem due to their excellent choice to bring economic stability to the country, at great sacrifice to their party a bit to the right of current Green thinking :)
  • RobD said:

    Mr. Eagles, abstaining would be a ridiculous request, because they could simply renege at any time.

    An English Parliament is necessary. English votes for English laws is better than the status quo, though it does not go far enough, and needs backing up by legislation so Scottish MPs cannot interfere in non-Scots, devolved matters.

    I'm not a fan of an English Parliament.

    If the SNP renege, Dave simply takes back all powers from the Scottish Parliament and appoints someone like me as Viceroy of Scotland.
    I see we had the same idea!
    GMTA
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Of all the mainstream press the Telegraph strangely seems to be giving the Green party most coverage. Today they helpfully point out that a policy that wasnt in a manifesto that hasnt been published has been ditched:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/green-party/11383801/Greens-ditch-citizens-income-from-election-manifesto.html

    I thought Caroline Lucas did well on the Today show earlier.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Neil said:

    Of all the mainstream press the Telegraph strangely seems to be giving the Green party most coverage. Today they helpfully point out that a policy that wasnt in a manifesto that hasnt been published has been ditched:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/green-party/11383801/Greens-ditch-citizens-income-from-election-manifesto.html

    I thought Caroline Lucas did well on the Today show earlier.

    Like ukips luxury goods tax?

    Get used to it if you make any inroads into the vote share of major parties
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    BenM said:

    I'm loving the Times Red Box poll today.

    Voters don't want small government. Quite right too.

    I love the smell of cratered rightwing ideology in the morning.

    The Times' Red Box Polls say
    Voters believe austerity best boost for economy
    Tories clearest about plans to cut deficit
    Voters know little about UKIP policies and even less about the Greens
    Voters want 'change' but think they will be worse off under Labour.

    On the poll about government just 31% say governemnt is a force for good.
    On a 'forced choice' and 'reducing this huge and complex issue' the polls said 61% wanted the government to do 'more'. Just what this 'more' means, given that only 31% think govt is a force for good, remains a moot point. And of course the other polls clearly show that they want 'more' done with 'less'. Frankly a question when you are forced to make a decision on 'complex' matters (such as where the money comes from) is not much of a question at all.
    That 31% is pretty much double the proportion which thinks like Tories and assorted ragbag Libertoonies.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulwaugh: Oops. As @robindbrant points out, @Ed_Miliband just attacked the 'chairman' of Boots who is in fact James A. Skinner.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    saddened said:

    saddened said:

    PB Tories love a good tax loophole its what put the Great in Britain.

    How greedy does global capitalism have to get before PB Tories recognise something needs to be done?

    How greedy do public sector early-retirees have to get before PB Tories recognise something needs to be done?
    It's only bad when other people use the existing legislation to their advantage. When BJO does it, it's a very sensible personal decision, that just coincidentally benefits him personally.

    Is BJO leveraging debt and milking the NHS to enrich himself while avoiding paying hundreds of millions of pounds in corporation tax? Wow!

    ....

    Hypocrisy does not require the sums to be equal, just the outcome.
    ....

    Dont judge people by Tory PB Standards. Lansley has broken the Acute Healthcare sector. Besides I am busy between now and May getting EICIPM elected.

    Arent most PB Tories stuffing taxpayers money into Granny Bonds as we speak?
    What do you do for a living, BJO?
    According to the CE who did my leaving speech I know everything there is to know about NHS finances and Turnaround of struggling hospital finances!!!

    Retired in April 2010 as Lansley system was certain to ruin the Acute sector due to marginal Tariff and 32yrs was enough for me.

    My fears have unfortunately proven to be true even quicker than I thought. My hospital is now struggling to be one only 20% of Acutes breaking even. It made a £3.9m Retained Surplus in my last year (10 months ago) now B/E is optimistic.

    In 2010 99% of Acute hospitals could generate a surplus (used for capital) now less than 20% are doing so as the emergency care tariff has made acute healthcare unworkable (as BTW Circle concluded).
    The NHS is busy implementing the £20 billion in efficiency savings that even Brown promised in his manifesto. Those savings come from somewhere. Labour said the NHS had more than enough money in 2010 so much so that it could afford to cut costs by 20 billion. That's what you ran away from.

    There is indeed I think a move away from acute hospitals which are an expensive way to deliver often remote healthcare.
    http://www.health.org.uk/public/cms/75/76/313/2539/Getting out of hospital full version.pdf?realName=khHFdl.pdf

    http://www.hah.co.uk/media-centre/success-stories/204

    Your sneering 'granny bonds' remark coming from someone on a comfortable NHS pension is quite nasty. I'm glad you are not running the NHS anymore.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @IsabelHardman: Q: What experience outside of politics do you have? Ed: I was an economic adviser in the Treasury.. I taught at Harvard.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    isam said:

    Neil said:

    Of all the mainstream press the Telegraph strangely seems to be giving the Green party most coverage. Today they helpfully point out that a policy that wasnt in a manifesto that hasnt been published has been ditched:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/green-party/11383801/Greens-ditch-citizens-income-from-election-manifesto.html

    I thought Caroline Lucas did well on the Today show earlier.

    Get used to it if you make any inroads into the vote share of major parties
    Get used to it? Cant get enough of it. Infinitely better than the zero coverage that sustained us in the past. For a previous voluntary role I used to have a google news alerts for the Green party - the vast majority of them related to the Canadian Green party, very few were relevant to the UK.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,751
    edited February 2015

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely this supports the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold?

    Or not.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,302
    edited February 2015
    Scott_P said:

    @IsabelHardman: Q: What experience outside of politics do you have? Ed: I was an economic adviser in the Treasury.. I taught at Harvard.

    So he taught at the place which provided the intellectual backdrop to the financial crisis.

    Clever
  • Is the problem not that the SNP have decided that there is in fact no such thing as an 'English only' matter due to the Barnett formula? The resolution of the WLQ requires the end of Barnett.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    General Boles (@GeneralBoles)
    02/02/2015 10:12
    Hearing rumours about Amjad Bashir to the #SNP.....anyone confirm? #DeadlineDay pic.twitter.com/MZcYbMxSmh
  • antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold obtains here?

    Or not.

    True, one wonders why the SNP are so afraid of him.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MirrorPolitics: Miliband uses the less than 18 months he spent teaching at Harvard as example of life outside politics #AskTheLeaders
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Massive disconnect between current polls and Betfair market IMO

    Indeed. There do seem to be plenty of punters whose gut instinct is to treat the polls as a pile of steaming horse sh8t.
  • Mr. Dave, it's a sales tax.

    If I ran a bookie that made exactly 0 profit, turnover tax would mean I (effectively) make a loss. [I don't think VAT affects bookies].

    Yes, but sales revenue and turnover are the same thing.
    But with VAT you can reclaim most of your costs as a business. As you're not paying over just the turnover element, you're reducing it by offsetting your costs.

    So your analogy doesn't work.
    You can reclaim VAT paid on goods/services received.

    That is not 'most of your costs'.
    So you're agree, VAT isn't a turnover tax.
    It's a tax on sales revenue. If you can see a difference between that and turnover you've beaten me.
    I charge VAT to my customers. I then deduct any VAT that I have payed out and pass the remaining VAT to HMRC. It is not a charge on my revenue as such as I pass the cost on to my customers (who in turn off set it against any VAT that they have payed).

    A revenue tax would not be offset-able and would discourage high volume business in favour of low volume high value business models.
    Such a revenue tax with no offset for input costs would mean companies undertaking all parts of the value chain themselves to avoid paying revenue tax many times over as a product or service passed through various stages.

    The short term impact would be for end product providers to take over their suppliers. In the longer term there would be the decline of specialist firms and a fall in productivity as generalist, vertically integrated firms undertake all the stages in production.
    Quite, it's a stupid idea.

    I get the desire for Apple, Amazon, Boots et al to cough up their "fair share" of tax, but I think a transaction tax is a non-starter.
  • Neil said:

    isam said:

    Neil said:

    Of all the mainstream press the Telegraph strangely seems to be giving the Green party most coverage. Today they helpfully point out that a policy that wasnt in a manifesto that hasnt been published has been ditched:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/green-party/11383801/Greens-ditch-citizens-income-from-election-manifesto.html

    I thought Caroline Lucas did well on the Today show earlier.

    Get used to it if you make any inroads into the vote share of major parties
    Get used to it? Cant get enough of it. Infinitely better than the zero coverage that sustained us in the past. For a previous voluntary role I used to have a google news alerts for the Green party - the vast majority of them related to the Canadian Green party, very few were relevant to the UK.
    Is the offer to extend my stake on our bet still available?
  • A revenue tax is not possible at all, unless we leave the EU. The only sales-type tax an EU member state can impose is VAT.
  • antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold obtains here?

    Or not.

    True, one wonders why the SNP are so afraid of him.
    So the PB Loyalists and SLab kept saying, everyone else not so much.

  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,275
    taffys said:

    Massive disconnect between current polls and Betfair market IMO

    Indeed. There do seem to be plenty of punters whose gut instinct is to treat the polls as a pile of steaming horse sh8t.

    Not necessarily: polls are a pure 'nowcast'. The betting market, although informed by polls, contains an element of conjecture as to how the polls will move over time.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited February 2015
    Good afternoon.

    Baxter is a dead donkey.
    -----------------
    David Jones ‏@DavidJo52951945 9m9 minutes ago
    EU is destroying British farms-god knows why we pay billions into the CAP to pay for EU farms instead of British ones http://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/555658/Eu-membership-costs-UK-farmers-environment-Liz-Truss

    UKIP have been saying this for years, Secretary Elizabeth Truss and the tories are playing catch up. :(
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    isam said:

    Neil said:

    Of all the mainstream press the Telegraph strangely seems to be giving the Green party most coverage. Today they helpfully point out that a policy that wasnt in a manifesto that hasnt been published has been ditched:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/green-party/11383801/Greens-ditch-citizens-income-from-election-manifesto.html

    I thought Caroline Lucas did well on the Today show earlier.

    Get used to it if you make any inroads into the vote share of major parties
    Get used to it? Cant get enough of it. Infinitely better than the zero coverage that sustained us in the past. For a previous voluntary role I used to have a google news alerts for the Green party - the vast majority of them related to the Canadian Green party, very few were relevant to the UK.
    Is the offer to extend my stake on our bet still available?
    Of course! As long as you promise you're not just laying off elsewhere for free money ;)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,197

    Quite apart from the merits of what Stefano Pessina said, Labour are mad to pick a fight with Boots. To most people, Boots is a cuddly brand. Labour laying into Boots (which is how even the BBC present it) is not a clever headline for Ed Miliband.

    In any case, why prolong the story?

    Not cuddly to me anymore if they are avoiding paying tax by various wheezes , whilst I am taxed till my eyes water. Certainly will make me avoid them if possible.
  • Neil said:

    Neil said:

    isam said:

    Neil said:

    Of all the mainstream press the Telegraph strangely seems to be giving the Green party most coverage. Today they helpfully point out that a policy that wasnt in a manifesto that hasnt been published has been ditched:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/green-party/11383801/Greens-ditch-citizens-income-from-election-manifesto.html

    I thought Caroline Lucas did well on the Today show earlier.

    Get used to it if you make any inroads into the vote share of major parties
    Get used to it? Cant get enough of it. Infinitely better than the zero coverage that sustained us in the past. For a previous voluntary role I used to have a google news alerts for the Green party - the vast majority of them related to the Canadian Green party, very few were relevant to the UK.
    Is the offer to extend my stake on our bet still available?
    Of course! As long as you promise you're not just laying off elsewhere for free money ;)
    Oh.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    A revenue tax is not possible at all, unless we leave the EU. The only sales-type tax an EU member state can impose is VAT.

    This is again one of those requirements forced on us by Brussels that is not at all needed for a single market (states in the US can have different systems), but entirely imposed in order to easily allow a later transition to federal control.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold obtains here?

    Or not.

    True, one wonders why the SNP are so afraid of him.
    So the PB Loyalists

    PB Loyalists? I like the idea of a paramilitary outfit dedicated to the defence of an obscure political blog. Who do we direct our sectarian hatred towards? The provos over at Guido's site I suppose?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,625
    edited February 2015


    Your sneering 'granny bonds' remark coming from someone on a comfortable NHS pension is quite nasty. I'm glad you are not running the NHS anymore.

    I am glad too hence me refusing very lucrative offers.

    Most taking swipes at Public Sector Pensions are in their own minds retirees who deserve a Golden Generation lifestyle paid for by the taxpayer.

    Most Tory voting Pensioners are richer than forthcoming generations yet dont see their own pension as a benefit paid for by the taxpayer.

    Enjoy your Granny Bonds and get over it.
  • For those Labour supporters patting themselves on the back about their great scrap with Boots, a few words from their most successful PM:

    "Tellingly, we lost business. This was crucial... I knew the game was up. If... chief executives say it is Labour that will put the economy at risk, who does the voter believe? Answer: the chief executives. Once you lose them, you lose more than a few votes. You lose your economic credibility. And a sprinkling of academic economists, however distinguished, won't make up the difference."

    The words of former Prime Minister Tony Blair, on page 681 of his memoirs, reflecting on why Labour lost the general election in 2010.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31089734
  • Neil said:

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold obtains here?

    Or not.

    True, one wonders why the SNP are so afraid of him.
    So the PB Loyalists

    PB Loyalists? I like the idea of a paramilitary outfit dedicated to the defence of an obscure political blog. Who do we direct our sectarian hatred towards? The provos over at Guido's site I suppose?
    Against members of The Waffen Yes Yes and The Yestapo.
  • Socrates said:

    A revenue tax is not possible at all, unless we leave the EU. The only sales-type tax an EU member state can impose is VAT.

    This is again one of those requirements forced on us by Brussels that is not at all needed for a single market (states in the US can have different systems), but entirely imposed in order to easily allow a later transition to federal control.
    Actually it's very sensible. There is not a snow-flake's chance in hell that, if we were to leave the EU, we'd not retain the EU VAT system. It would be completely bonkers not to, so it would one of the items that both sides would immediately sign up in trade treaty negotiations.
  • A revenue tax is not possible at all, unless we leave the EU. The only sales-type tax an EU member state can impose is VAT.

    The real problem here is the ability of these multinationals to structure in such a way that the profits are made in low tax havens countries. We need to be tighter on the rules about what is classed as profit made or attributable to the UK.
    Better systems for accountability and country by country reporting are needed too.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,302

    Socrates said:

    A revenue tax is not possible at all, unless we leave the EU. The only sales-type tax an EU member state can impose is VAT.

    This is again one of those requirements forced on us by Brussels that is not at all needed for a single market (states in the US can have different systems), but entirely imposed in order to easily allow a later transition to federal control.
    Actually it's very sensible. There is not a snow-flake's chance in hell that, if we were to leave the EU, we'd not retain the EU VAT system. It would be completely bonkers not to, so it would one of the items that both sides would immediately sign up in trade treaty negotiations.
    We would no doubt retain the system, but where the money collected ended up would be different.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    For those Labour supporters patting themselves on the back about their great scrap with Boots, a few words from their most successful PM:

    "Tellingly, we lost business. This was crucial... I knew the game was up. If... chief executives say it is Labour that will put the economy at risk, who does the voter believe? Answer: the chief executives. Once you lose them, you lose more than a few votes. You lose your economic credibility. And a sprinkling of academic economists, however distinguished, won't make up the difference."

    The words of former Prime Minister Tony Blair, on page 681 of his memoirs, reflecting on why Labour lost the general election in 2010.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31089734

    There's a wonderful line in one of the Fawlty Towers episodes when Sybil says to Basil that he seems incapable of getting the tone right with guests.

    From memory it goes something like: "You're either fawning all over them or spitting at them like a puff adder."

    That seems to sum up Labour's approach beautifully. Blair fawned; Ed spits. Neither is of any use to the rest of us.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,197
    LOL , Murphy getting a dose of Labour's own medicine, brilliant.
  • pb public, please assist me with an ethical problem.

    I have for some years gone out of my way to avoid using Boots wherever possible because I find the service utterly crap (cf also W H Smiths). How do I now register my disapproval of businessmen languidly stirring up mindless political arguments?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,197

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold obtains here?

    Or not.

    True, one wonders why the SNP are so afraid of him.
    LOL you really actually do have your head up your own ****
  • Neil said:

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold obtains here?

    Or not.

    True, one wonders why the SNP are so afraid of him.
    So the PB Loyalists

    PB Loyalists? I like the idea of a paramilitary outfit dedicated to the defence of an obscure political blog. Who do we direct our sectarian hatred towards? The provos over at Guido's site I suppose?
    Like a previous poster, you seem to be limiting your vocabulary unnecessarily.

    loy·al·ist
    (loi′ə-lĭst)
    n.
    1. One who maintains loyalty to an established government, political party, or sovereign, especially during war or revolutionary change.
    2. Loyalist See Tory.
    3. Loyalist One who supported the established government of Spain during the Spanish Civil War.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,197

    Neil said:

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold obtains here?

    Or not.

    True, one wonders why the SNP are so afraid of him.
    So the PB Loyalists

    PB Loyalists? I like the idea of a paramilitary outfit dedicated to the defence of an obscure political blog. Who do we direct our sectarian hatred towards? The provos over at Guido's site I suppose?
    Against members of The Waffen Yes Yes and The Yestapo.
    Or perhaps ISIS boys
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2015
    malcolmg said:


    LOL you really actually do have your head up your own ****

    Eh? That's mad even by your own standards.

    I genuinely don't understand why the SNP are so worried by Jim Murphy. It looks to me like his strategy is doomed. Perhaps you can explain what the SNP are so afraid of that they feel the need to resort to trying to silence him.
  • antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely this supports the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold?

    Or not.

    I like the way you see Scotland as being in the grips of a Northern Ireland-style civil war. Loyalists on one side, Republicans on the other, presumably. Testament, I guess, to eight years of successful SNP rule.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold obtains here?

    Or not.

    True, one wonders why the SNP are so afraid of him.
    So the PB Loyalists

    PB Loyalists? I like the idea of a paramilitary outfit dedicated to the defence of an obscure political blog. Who do we direct our sectarian hatred towards? The provos over at Guido's site I suppose?
    Like a previous poster, you seem to be limiting your vocabulary unnecessarily.

    loy·al·ist
    (loi′ə-lĭst)
    n.
    1. One who maintains loyalty to an established government, political party, or sovereign, especially during war or revolutionary change.
    2. Loyalist See Tory.
    3. Loyalist One who supported the established government of Spain during the Spanish Civil War.

    Oh, so that wasnt what you were aiming for? Shouldnt you have used *innocent face* or something?

  • Neil said:


    Shouldnt you have used *innocent face* or something?

    There are levels of ghastliness even I won't descend to.
  • antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely this supports the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold?

    Or not.

    I like the way you see Scotland as being in the grips of a Northern Ireland-style civil war. Loyalists on one side, Republicans on the other, presumably. Testament, I guess, to eight years of successful SNP rule.

    Oh dear, thickness of skin failure.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    A revenue tax is not possible at all, unless we leave the EU. The only sales-type tax an EU member state can impose is VAT.

    The real problem here is the ability of these multinationals to structure in such a way that the profits are made in low tax havens countries. We need to be tighter on the rules about what is classed as profit made or attributable to the UK.
    Better systems for accountability and country by country reporting are needed too.
    Country by country reporting and zero tolerance on transfer pricing are the silver bullets. You can tell they are due to how opposed the accountancy profession is to country btly country reporting
  • Scott_P said:

    @MirrorPolitics: Miliband uses the less than 18 months he spent teaching at Harvard as example of life outside politics #AskTheLeaders

    With whom is the implied contrast? Not Cameron or Osborne, who were SpAds. In any case, surely this is red on red? Which future Labour leadership contender has the best work experience? Not TSE's 50/1 hope, Liz Kendall, who was a SpAd, as was Andy Burnham. Chuka has a few year as a lawyer: is he the Mirror's man?
  • antifrank said:

    pb public, please assist me with an ethical problem.

    I have for some years gone out of my way to avoid using Boots wherever possible because I find the service utterly crap (cf also W H Smiths). How do I now register my disapproval of businessmen languidly stirring up mindless political arguments?

    Shop at super drug.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    Alistair said:

    A revenue tax is not possible at all, unless we leave the EU. The only sales-type tax an EU member state can impose is VAT.

    The real problem here is the ability of these multinationals to structure in such a way that the profits are made in low tax havens countries. We need to be tighter on the rules about what is classed as profit made or attributable to the UK.
    Better systems for accountability and country by country reporting are needed too.
    Country by country reporting and zero tolerance on transfer pricing are the silver bullets. You can tell they are due to how opposed the accountancy profession is to country btly country reporting
    I'm not !
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,197
    edited February 2015

    malcolmg said:


    LOL you really actually do have your head up your own ****

    Eh? That's mad even by your own standards.

    I genuinely don't understand why the SNP are so worried by Jim Murphy. It looks to me like his strategy is doomed. Perhaps you can explain what the SNP are so afraid of that they feel the need to resort to trying to silence him.
    That is because they are not worried , they are just showing him up for what he is, a lying two faced toerag.
    They at least need to highlight his lies if nothing else.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    antifrank said:

    pb public, please assist me with an ethical problem.

    I have for some years gone out of my way to avoid using Boots wherever possible because I find the service utterly crap (cf also W H Smiths). How do I now register my disapproval of businessmen languidly stirring up mindless political arguments?

    WH Smiths I agree with you. I'm amazed to find them still in business TBH.

    But I have always found the Boots near my place of work to be excellent. One of their pharmacists went out of their way to help me when I had to find urgently a medecine for my son that was hard to get.

    My own personal boycott is aimed at Starbucks - mainly on account of their absurdly overpriced and disgusting drinks.
  • Meanwhile, Labour are not the only party picking a fight with an adversary from outside politics:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-31088407
  • antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely this supports the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold?

    Or not.

    I like the way you see Scotland as being in the grips of a Northern Ireland-style civil war. Loyalists on one side, Republicans on the other, presumably. Testament, I guess, to eight years of successful SNP rule.

    Oh dear, thickness of skin failure.

    Not really. It's you portraying Scotland as engaged in some kind of civil war. We don't have that level of animosity down in England. But then we don't have anything like Celtic v Rangers either.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely this supports the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold?

    Or not.

    I like the way you see Scotland as being in the grips of a Northern Ireland-style civil war. Loyalists on one side, Republicans on the other, presumably. Testament, I guess, to eight years of successful SNP rule.

    Oh dear, thickness of skin failure.
    English people are just very polite, they're not used to the levels of sectarian hatred and turnip-chucking that seem to be endemic to politics in your country.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    @Alistair What's your view on (Outside UK) parent company management charges ?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Cyclefree said:

    antifrank said:

    pb public, please assist me with an ethical problem.

    I have for some years gone out of my way to avoid using Boots wherever possible because I find the service utterly crap (cf also W H Smiths). How do I now register my disapproval of businessmen languidly stirring up mindless political arguments?

    WH Smiths I agree with you. I'm amazed to find them still in business TBH.

    But I have always found the Boots near my place of work to be excellent. One of their pharmacists went out of their way to help me when I had to find urgently a medecine for my son that was hard to get.

    My own personal boycott is aimed at Starbucks - mainly on account of their absurdly overpriced and disgusting drinks.
    Easy to to boycott Starbucks given their coffee is shit.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2015

    Scott_P said:

    @MirrorPolitics: Miliband uses the less than 18 months he spent teaching at Harvard as example of life outside politics #AskTheLeaders

    With whom is the implied contrast? Not Cameron or Osborne, who were SpAds. In any case, surely this is red on red? Which future Labour leadership contender has the best work experience? Not TSE's 50/1 hope, Liz Kendall, who was a SpAd, as was Andy Burnham. Chuka has a few year as a lawyer: is he the Mirror's man?
    Surely the problem is that Ed's answer was so totally feeble. Given that he's had years of experience in politics, you'd have thought he might have picked up the rudiments of how to answer an obvious question like that without sounding like a complete twerp. It's not as though the question is something new and out of the blue.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited February 2015
    antifrank said:

    Meanwhile, Labour are not the only party picking a fight with an adversary from outside politics:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-31088407

    How are UKIP the ones picking a fight and how is the school "outside politics" when this begun when it was the school that began the incident via political indoctrination?
  • antifrank said:

    Meanwhile, Labour are not the only party picking a fight with an adversary from outside politics:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-31088407

    Michael Gove's revised history syllabus?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,197

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely this supports the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold?

    Or not.

    I like the way you see Scotland as being in the grips of a Northern Ireland-style civil war. Loyalists on one side, Republicans on the other, presumably. Testament, I guess, to eight years of successful SNP rule.

    Oh dear, thickness of skin failure.

    Not really. It's you portraying Scotland as engaged in some kind of civil war. We don't have that level of animosity down in England. But then we don't have anything like Celtic v Rangers either.

    SO, what makes you imagine we have an issue in Scotland. Certainly don't see it up here so surprised that you hear of it way down south. Too much reading of right wing southern rags methinks.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Alistair said:

    A revenue tax is not possible at all, unless we leave the EU. The only sales-type tax an EU member state can impose is VAT.

    The real problem here is the ability of these multinationals to structure in such a way that the profits are made in low tax havens countries. We need to be tighter on the rules about what is classed as profit made or attributable to the UK.
    Better systems for accountability and country by country reporting are needed too.
    Country by country reporting and zero tolerance on transfer pricing are the silver bullets. You can tell they are due to how opposed the accountancy profession is to country btly country reporting
    Quite right. The accountancy lobby fought damn hard to retain the choice between sectoral and geographical reporting when the breakdown requirement was brought in.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,197
    Neil said:

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely this supports the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold?

    Or not.

    I like the way you see Scotland as being in the grips of a Northern Ireland-style civil war. Loyalists on one side, Republicans on the other, presumably. Testament, I guess, to eight years of successful SNP rule.

    Oh dear, thickness of skin failure.
    English people are just very polite, they're not used to the levels of sectarian hatred and turnip-chucking that seem to be endemic to politics in your country.
    LOL, you mean they are a bunch of jessies scared to voice their opinions, prefer to stab in the back than to face people.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    A revenue tax is not possible at all, unless we leave the EU. The only sales-type tax an EU member state can impose is VAT.

    This is again one of those requirements forced on us by Brussels that is not at all needed for a single market (states in the US can have different systems), but entirely imposed in order to easily allow a later transition to federal control.
    Actually it's very sensible. There is not a snow-flake's chance in hell that, if we were to leave the EU, we'd not retain the EU VAT system. It would be completely bonkers not to, so it would one of the items that both sides would immediately sign up in trade treaty negotiations.
    How come it's not part of NAFTA then?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely this supports the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold?

    Or not.

    I like the way you see Scotland as being in the grips of a Northern Ireland-style civil war. Loyalists on one side, Republicans on the other, presumably. Testament, I guess, to eight years of successful SNP rule.

    Oh dear, thickness of skin failure.

    But then we don't have anything like Celtic v Rangers either.

    Oversold and over hyped

    From yesterday

    http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/6317208/Cops1-Yobs0.html?teaser=true

    "By KENNY ANGOVE Published: 13 hrs ago
    POLICE claimed victory over Old Firm thugs after keeping a lid on yesterday’s powderkeg match.
    Cops praised the behaviour of the “vast majority” of fans at Hampden."
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited February 2015

    antifrank said:

    pb public, please assist me with an ethical problem.

    I have for some years gone out of my way to avoid using Boots wherever possible because I find the service utterly crap (cf also W H Smiths). How do I now register my disapproval of businessmen languidly stirring up mindless political arguments?

    Shop at super drug.
    Super Drug owned by Hutchison Whampoa? Another corporation that operates businesses through Luxembourg.
  • Scott_P said:

    @MirrorPolitics: Miliband uses the less than 18 months he spent teaching at Harvard as example of life outside politics #AskTheLeaders

    With whom is the implied contrast? Not Cameron or Osborne, who were SpAds. In any case, surely this is red on red? Which future Labour leadership contender has the best work experience? Not TSE's 50/1 hope, Liz Kendall, who was a SpAd, as was Andy Burnham. Chuka has a few year as a lawyer: is he the Mirror's man?
    Surely the problem is that Ed's answer was so totally feeble. Given that he's had years of experience in politics, you'd have thought he might have picked up the rudiments of how to answer a question like that without sounding like a complete twerp. It's not as though the question is something new and out of the blue.
    This is Labour's great weakness -- we saw it with Gordon Brown and we see it every four years at the start of the American primaries. Politicians who spend years preaching only to the choir, ducking interviews and advocating no particular policies, discover too late at the start of their campaign that these are learned skills and they have not completed their apprenticeship.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    TGOHF said:

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely this supports the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold?

    Or not.

    I like the way you see Scotland as being in the grips of a Northern Ireland-style civil war. Loyalists on one side, Republicans on the other, presumably. Testament, I guess, to eight years of successful SNP rule.

    Oh dear, thickness of skin failure.

    But then we don't have anything like Celtic v Rangers either.

    Oversold and over hyped

    From yesterday

    http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/6317208/Cops1-Yobs0.html?teaser=true

    "By KENNY ANGOVE Published: 13 hrs ago
    POLICE claimed victory over Old Firm thugs after keeping a lid on yesterday’s powderkeg match.
    Cops praised the behaviour of the “vast majority” of fans at Hampden."
    Thanks for the report on the clash between the Police and Thugs. It seems to have left out the scoreline of the actual match though.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    Labour could make a gain in Scotland btw.
  • antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely this supports the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold?

    Or not.

    I like the way you see Scotland as being in the grips of a Northern Ireland-style civil war. Loyalists on one side, Republicans on the other, presumably. Testament, I guess, to eight years of successful SNP rule.

    Oh dear, thickness of skin failure.

    Not really. It's you portraying Scotland as engaged in some kind of civil war. We don't have that level of animosity down in England. But then we don't have anything like Celtic v Rangers either.

    I'm portraying it as a civil war, yet it's PB Londoners that immediately connect the word loyalist to Northern Irish sectarianism?
    It's the 'spelling mistake' fiasco all over again. Feel free to bloviate while wilfully impaled on the wrong end of the stick, ahm oot.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited February 2015
    SouthamObserver

    3 times as many arrests at last years Notting hill Carnival than yesterdays Old Firm game.

    We don't have "anything like" that event north of the border.


  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,197
    Look how dumb and pathetic Labour really are......
    http://wingsoverscotland.com/those-who-would-rule-us/
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Scott_P said:

    @IsabelHardman: Q: What experience outside of politics do you have? Ed: I was an economic adviser in the Treasury.. I taught at Harvard.

    "Economic adviser in the Treasury" is the more ridiculous response of those two. He was a politically appointed special advisor.
  • malcolmg said:

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely this supports the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold?

    Or not.

    I like the way you see Scotland as being in the grips of a Northern Ireland-style civil war. Loyalists on one side, Republicans on the other, presumably. Testament, I guess, to eight years of successful SNP rule.

    Oh dear, thickness of skin failure.

    Not really. It's you portraying Scotland as engaged in some kind of civil war. We don't have that level of animosity down in England. But then we don't have anything like Celtic v Rangers either.

    SO, what makes you imagine we have an issue in Scotland. Certainly don't see it up here so surprised that you hear of it way down south. Too much reading of right wing southern rags methinks.

    Describing people who support the Union as Loyalists indicates to me a pretty belligerent outlook. Or maybe uniondivvie was just seeking to smear people whose views he does not share. Either way, it's not a positive reflection of the level of discourse north of the border right now.

  • antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely this supports the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold?

    Or not.

    I like the way you see Scotland as being in the grips of a Northern Ireland-style civil war. Loyalists on one side, Republicans on the other, presumably. Testament, I guess, to eight years of successful SNP rule.

    Oh dear, thickness of skin failure.

    Not really. It's you portraying Scotland as engaged in some kind of civil war. We don't have that level of animosity down in England. But then we don't have anything like Celtic v Rangers either.

    I'm portraying it as a civil war, yet it's PB Londoners that immediately connect the word loyalist to Northern Irish sectarianism?
    It's the 'spelling mistake' fiasco all over again. Feel free to bloviate while wilfully impaled on the wrong end of the stick, ahm oot.

    Yeah, whatever. You spelled it Loyalist.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely this supports the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold?

    Or not.

    I like the way you see Scotland as being in the grips of a Northern Ireland-style civil war. Loyalists on one side, Republicans on the other, presumably. Testament, I guess, to eight years of successful SNP rule.

    Oh dear, thickness of skin failure.

    But then we don't have anything like Celtic v Rangers either.

    Oversold and over hyped

    From yesterday

    http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/6317208/Cops1-Yobs0.html?teaser=true

    "By KENNY ANGOVE Published: 13 hrs ago
    POLICE claimed victory over Old Firm thugs after keeping a lid on yesterday’s powderkeg match.
    Cops praised the behaviour of the “vast majority” of fans at Hampden."
    Thanks for the report on the clash between the Police and Thugs. It seems to have left out the scoreline of the actual match though.

    Pacific Shelf FC failed to convince against a poor outfit from a division below them. 2-0 to Mordor.


  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2015
    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    A revenue tax is not possible at all, unless we leave the EU. The only sales-type tax an EU member state can impose is VAT.

    This is again one of those requirements forced on us by Brussels that is not at all needed for a single market (states in the US can have different systems), but entirely imposed in order to easily allow a later transition to federal control.
    Actually it's very sensible. There is not a snow-flake's chance in hell that, if we were to leave the EU, we'd not retain the EU VAT system. It would be completely bonkers not to, so it would one of the items that both sides would immediately sign up in trade treaty negotiations.
    How come it's not part of NAFTA then?
    What's NAFTA got to with anything? We're currently in the EU, we trade extensively with the EU, important industries such as car manufacturing are all set up to handle VAT throughout their supply chain, and it is a very well-designed tax. There would be conceivable reason to abandon it. Indeed the trend in recent years has been for countries around the world to adopt VAT systems:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax
  • On topic, Baxter's method is ok if you moderate it with some common sense.

    The most obvious adjustments necessary would be to the LD and UKIP score. They both seem understated, by about twelve and six respectively I would estimate. SNP looks about right although with some possibility of 'swingback'.

    This all suggests the sum of Con+Lab is overstated by about 20 or more, depending largely on how the Nats go. It's very difficult to guess how seats will split between the big two, but you could safely sell both on the spreads for a small net profit. I did just that when Spin opened their GE Seats market. I've already collected the profit on Labour, and expect to do similarly on the Tories before long.
  • The SNP ruling out a deal with the Conservatives is obvious at this time but Sturgeon/Salmond are switched on political operators and it is quite possible that Cameron could offer them much more devolution than Miliband. Is everyone saying that they would turn down the best offer for Scotland irrespective of how it is delivered
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    malcolmg said:

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely this supports the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold?

    Or not.

    I like the way you see Scotland as being in the grips of a Northern Ireland-style civil war. Loyalists on one side, Republicans on the other, presumably. Testament, I guess, to eight years of successful SNP rule.

    Oh dear, thickness of skin failure.

    Not really. It's you portraying Scotland as engaged in some kind of civil war. We don't have that level of animosity down in England. But then we don't have anything like Celtic v Rangers either.

    SO, what makes you imagine we have an issue in Scotland. Certainly don't see it up here so surprised that you hear of it way down south. Too much reading of right wing southern rags methinks.

    Describing people who support the Union as Loyalists indicates to me a pretty belligerent outlook. Or maybe uniondivvie was just seeking to smear people whose views he does not share. Either way, it's not a positive reflection of the level of discourse north of the border right now.

    He's just looking to wind people up. I'm sure he takes being wound up himself in exactly the same spirit he expects of other posters.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    If Lord A. post another teaser tweet before releasing the results I might just lose my mind.
  • TGOHF said:

    SouthamObserver

    3 times as many arrests at last years Notting hill Carnival than yesterdays Old Firm game.

    We don't have "anything like" that event north of the border.


    90 minutes as opposed to three days. Hundreds of thousands of attendees as opposed to 50,000. Indeed, the two events are very different.



  • Yeah, whatever. You spelled it Loyalist.

    PB Tories
    PB Lefties
    PB Greens
    PB Nats
    PB Kippers
    PB Pompous Idiots

    etc
  • In astonishingly unsurprising industry news, the Guardian have abandoned their betting site GoWager after just one year. A very odd venture for them to get involved with in the first place.
  • Neil said:

    malcolmg said:

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely this supports the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold?

    Or not.

    I like the way you see Scotland as being in the grips of a Northern Ireland-style civil war. Loyalists on one side, Republicans on the other, presumably. Testament, I guess, to eight years of successful SNP rule.

    Oh dear, thickness of skin failure.

    Not really. It's you portraying Scotland as engaged in some kind of civil war. We don't have that level of animosity down in England. But then we don't have anything like Celtic v Rangers either.

    SO, what makes you imagine we have an issue in Scotland. Certainly don't see it up here so surprised that you hear of it way down south. Too much reading of right wing southern rags methinks.

    Describing people who support the Union as Loyalists indicates to me a pretty belligerent outlook. Or maybe uniondivvie was just seeking to smear people whose views he does not share. Either way, it's not a positive reflection of the level of discourse north of the border right now.

    He's just looking to wind people up. I'm sure he takes being wound up himself in exactly the same spirit he expects of other posters.

    Without doubt ...

  • Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    A revenue tax is not possible at all, unless we leave the EU. The only sales-type tax an EU member state can impose is VAT.

    This is again one of those requirements forced on us by Brussels that is not at all needed for a single market (states in the US can have different systems), but entirely imposed in order to easily allow a later transition to federal control.
    Actually it's very sensible. There is not a snow-flake's chance in hell that, if we were to leave the EU, we'd not retain the EU VAT system. It would be completely bonkers not to, so it would one of the items that both sides would immediately sign up in trade treaty negotiations.
    How come it's not part of NAFTA then?
    What's NAFTA got to with anything? We're currently in the EU, we trade extensively with the EU, important industries such as car manufacturing are all set up to handle VAT throughout their supply chain, and it is a very well-designed tax. There would be conceivable reason to abandon it. Indeed the trend in recent years has been for countries around the world to adopt VAT systems:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax

    In the US sales tax is levied at the state level, isn't it?

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769

    The SNP ruling out a deal with the Conservatives is obvious at this time but Sturgeon/Salmond are switched on political operators and it is quite possible that Cameron could offer them much more devolution than Miliband. Is everyone saying that they would turn down the best offer for Scotland irrespective of how it is delivered

    Scottish polling indicates SNP supporters want a deal between Labour and the SNP.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633



    Yeah, whatever. You spelled it Loyalist.

    PB Tories
    PB Lefties
    PB Greens
    PB Nats
    PB Kippers
    PB Pompous Idiots

    etc
    Are these the groups that called the Sindy ref correctly ?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,302

    malcolmg said:

    antifrank said:
    The recently installed Scottish Labour Party leader was trying to canvass opinion on a housing estate in the western part of the city, which should be Labour territory. But the group of Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters at his heels made this almost impossible. Every time he raised his hand to a doorbell, they yelled: “Liar at your door, love!” “Red Tory scum!” “What about the 100,000 dead Iraqis?”

    Nice people, the SNP.

    Still, I suppose that Labour can't complain, given that all the SNP have done is copy and refine Labour's own politics of hate.
    Surely this supports the PB Loyalist view that the more abuse Murphy gets, the more it shows how effective he is in reinforcing Labour's northern stronghold?

    Or not.

    I like the way you see Scotland as being in the grips of a Northern Ireland-style civil war. Loyalists on one side, Republicans on the other, presumably. Testament, I guess, to eight years of successful SNP rule.

    Oh dear, thickness of skin failure.

    Not really. It's you portraying Scotland as engaged in some kind of civil war. We don't have that level of animosity down in England. But then we don't have anything like Celtic v Rangers either.

    SO, what makes you imagine we have an issue in Scotland. Certainly don't see it up here so surprised that you hear of it way down south. Too much reading of right wing southern rags methinks.

    Describing people who support the Union as Loyalists indicates to me a pretty belligerent outlook. Or maybe uniondivvie was just seeking to smear people whose views he does not share. Either way, it's not a positive reflection of the level of discourse north of the border right now.

    Hey you can't win arguments with National Socialists :-)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732



    Yeah, whatever. You spelled it Loyalist.

    PB Tories
    PB Lefties
    PB Greens
    PB Nats
    PB Kippers
    PB Pompous Idiots

    etc
    You know what they say about PB Tories?

    PB Tories always learn. PB Tories are never wrong.

    The question is, does a PB Tory ever forget?
  • Cyclefree said:

    antifrank said:

    pb public, please assist me with an ethical problem.

    I have for some years gone out of my way to avoid using Boots wherever possible because I find the service utterly crap (cf also W H Smiths). How do I now register my disapproval of businessmen languidly stirring up mindless political arguments?

    WH Smiths I agree with you. I'm amazed to find them still in business TBH.

    But I have always found the Boots near my place of work to be excellent. One of their pharmacists went out of their way to help me when I had to find urgently a medecine for my son that was hard to get.

    My own personal boycott is aimed at Starbucks - mainly on account of their absurdly overpriced and disgusting drinks.
    Starbucks coffee tastes and smells of burnt rubber.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    RobD said:



    The question is, does a PB Tory ever forget?

    I can confirm that we do. After a sufficient number of cocktails.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    A revenue tax is not possible at all, unless we leave the EU. The only sales-type tax an EU member state can impose is VAT.

    This is again one of those requirements forced on us by Brussels that is not at all needed for a single market (states in the US can have different systems), but entirely imposed in order to easily allow a later transition to federal control.
    Actually it's very sensible. There is not a snow-flake's chance in hell that, if we were to leave the EU, we'd not retain the EU VAT system. It would be completely bonkers not to, so it would one of the items that both sides would immediately sign up in trade treaty negotiations.
    How come it's not part of NAFTA then?
    What's NAFTA got to with anything? We're currently in the EU, we trade extensively with the EU, important industries such as car manufacturing are all set up to handle VAT throughout their supply chain, and it is a very well-designed tax. There would be conceivable reason to abandon it. Indeed the trend in recent years has been for countries around the world to adopt VAT systems:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax
    I think VAT is a perfectly sensible system of taxation. However, there is absolutely no need why membership of a single market requires it to be the only type of sales-related tax. If a government chooses to charge corporation tax on revenue rather than profit, it should absolutely be allowed.
This discussion has been closed.