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  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edited February 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    Neil said:


    MikeK said:

    MossadNews ‏@MossadNews 4m4 minutes ago
    U.S. Considers Supplying Arms to Ukraine Forces, Officials Say U.S. Considers Supplying Arms to Ukraine Forces,... http://fb.me/1IsRlQncT

    Thing could get very hot if they do.......

    Especially under False Flag's collar!

    Any news on ALP :) ?
    I think he's stripped down to his Rambo-style best and is single-handedly holding on to the blown out shell of Donetsk airport on behalf of the Donbass militias for the glory of Putin. No yellow boxes were harmed in this action.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    MikeK said:

    Was there a Populus poll today?

    Todays Populus LAB 337 CON 259 LD 25 EICIPM(2.50 on Betfair)
    Have you lumped on BJO?
    Indeed and the lay on Cameron at 1.64
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    MikeK,

    Re Boston ... "Some exciting news coming up later today."

    They've found a non-Kipper?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    MikeK said:

    Was there a Populus poll today?

    Todays Populus LAB 337 CON 259 LD 25 EICIPM(2.50 on Betfair)
    Have you lumped on BJO?
    Indeed and the lay on Cameron at 1.64
    Given you are projecting a Labour majority should you not be focussing your resources on the far more generous odds available on that?

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Socrates said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    I see it is Wednesday before the Scottish poling is released.

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3h 3 hours ago
    Pls retweet that my Scottish individual constituency poll will be released at 11am Wed at http://lordashcroftpolls.com Register there to receive


    Meanwhile the Telegraph is having a titter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

    "Ed Miliband tells Boots boss who lives in Monaco: Pay your taxes"

    I'm sure the Monaconian government will welcome this reminder to their citizen.

    Ed M can criticise others for legal tax avoidance when the Miliband family cough up the Inheritance Tax they dodged on his father's estate . Until then, he just another hypocrite.
    They haven't avoided any tax
    They haven't evaded any tax, but they certainly avoided it.
    As far as I was aware their tax bill before and after the change was 0 pounds.
  • Socrates said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    I see it is Wednesday before the Scottish poling is released.

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3h 3 hours ago
    Pls retweet that my Scottish individual constituency poll will be released at 11am Wed at http://lordashcroftpolls.com Register there to receive


    Meanwhile the Telegraph is having a titter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

    "Ed Miliband tells Boots boss who lives in Monaco: Pay your taxes"

    I'm sure the Monaconian government will welcome this reminder to their citizen.

    Ed M can criticise others for legal tax avoidance when the Miliband family cough up the Inheritance Tax they dodged on his father's estate . Until then, he just another hypocrite.
    They haven't avoided any tax
    They haven't evaded any tax, but they certainly avoided it.

    How has he avoided it? When my Dad died his share of the estate just passed to my Mum. Isn't that what happened with the Milibands?

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited February 2015

    Socrates said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    I see it is Wednesday before the Scottish poling is released.

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3h 3 hours ago
    Pls retweet that my Scottish individual constituency poll will be released at 11am Wed at http://lordashcroftpolls.com Register there to receive


    Meanwhile the Telegraph is having a titter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

    "Ed Miliband tells Boots boss who lives in Monaco: Pay your taxes"

    I'm sure the Monaconian government will welcome this reminder to their citizen.

    Ed M can criticise others for legal tax avoidance when the Miliband family cough up the Inheritance Tax they dodged on his father's estate . Until then, he just another hypocrite.
    They haven't avoided any tax
    They haven't evaded any tax, but they certainly avoided it.

    How has he avoided it? When my Dad died his share of the estate just passed to my Mum. Isn't that what happened with the Milibands?

    Nope.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/8039829/Red-Ed-Miliband-lives-in-1.6m-house-after-shrewd-property-moves.html

    http://www.standard.co.uk/business/city-spy-red-ed-does-marxism-the-primrose-hill-way-6519479.html
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Alistair said:

    Socrates said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    I see it is Wednesday before the Scottish poling is released.

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3h 3 hours ago
    Pls retweet that my Scottish individual constituency poll will be released at 11am Wed at http://lordashcroftpolls.com Register there to receive


    Meanwhile the Telegraph is having a titter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

    "Ed Miliband tells Boots boss who lives in Monaco: Pay your taxes"

    I'm sure the Monaconian government will welcome this reminder to their citizen.

    Ed M can criticise others for legal tax avoidance when the Miliband family cough up the Inheritance Tax they dodged on his father's estate . Until then, he just another hypocrite.
    They haven't avoided any tax
    They haven't evaded any tax, but they certainly avoided it.
    As far as I was aware their tax bill before and after the change was 0 pounds.
    Do you have a source? This doesn't make sense to me, considering their house was considerably over the threshold.
  • Neil said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Neil said:


    MikeK said:

    MossadNews ‏@MossadNews 4m4 minutes ago
    U.S. Considers Supplying Arms to Ukraine Forces, Officials Say U.S. Considers Supplying Arms to Ukraine Forces,... http://fb.me/1IsRlQncT

    Thing could get very hot if they do.......

    Especially under False Flag's collar!

    Any news on ALP :) ?
    I think he's stripped down to his Rambo-style best and is single-handedly holding on to the blown out shell of Donetsk airport on behalf of the Donbass militias for the glory of Putin. No yellow boxes were harmed in this action.

    "You'll receive the Order of Lenin for this!"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JZL4CBwUOA
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    I see it is Wednesday before the Scottish poling is released.

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3h 3 hours ago
    Pls retweet that my Scottish individual constituency poll will be released at 11am Wed at http://lordashcroftpolls.com Register there to receive


    Meanwhile the Telegraph is having a titter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

    "Ed Miliband tells Boots boss who lives in Monaco: Pay your taxes"

    I'm sure the Monaconian government will welcome this reminder to their citizen.

    Ed M can criticise others for legal tax avoidance when the Miliband family cough up the Inheritance Tax they dodged on his father's estate . Until then, he just another hypocrite.
    They haven't avoided any tax
    They haven't evaded any tax, but they certainly avoided it.

    How has he avoided it? When my Dad died his share of the estate just passed to my Mum. Isn't that what happened with the Milibands?

    Ralph left 20% to each brother when he died, and the rest went through their mother. That means they got to use the tax-free threshold twice.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    Socrates said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    I see it is Wednesday before the Scottish poling is released.

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3h 3 hours ago
    Pls retweet that my Scottish individual constituency poll will be released at 11am Wed at http://lordashcroftpolls.com Register there to receive


    Meanwhile the Telegraph is having a titter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

    "Ed Miliband tells Boots boss who lives in Monaco: Pay your taxes"

    I'm sure the Monaconian government will welcome this reminder to their citizen.

    Ed M can criticise others for legal tax avoidance when the Miliband family cough up the Inheritance Tax they dodged on his father's estate . Until then, he just another hypocrite.
    They haven't avoided any tax
    They haven't evaded any tax, but they certainly avoided it.

    How has he avoided it? When my Dad died his share of the estate just passed to my Mum. Isn't that what happened with the Milibands?

    Sounds potentially inheritance tax inefficient to me, though I have no idea of your personal circumstances.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Not yet sure which party will find that this protest works to its disadvantage?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-31088052

    Could damage, LDs, Greens, or Labour in Bristol W.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Alistair said:

    Socrates said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    I see it is Wednesday before the Scottish poling is released.

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3h 3 hours ago
    Pls retweet that my Scottish individual constituency poll will be released at 11am Wed at http://lordashcroftpolls.com Register there to receive


    Meanwhile the Telegraph is having a titter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

    "Ed Miliband tells Boots boss who lives in Monaco: Pay your taxes"

    I'm sure the Monaconian government will welcome this reminder to their citizen.

    Ed M can criticise others for legal tax avoidance when the Miliband family cough up the Inheritance Tax they dodged on his father's estate . Until then, he just another hypocrite.
    They haven't avoided any tax
    They haven't evaded any tax, but they certainly avoided it.
    As far as I was aware their tax bill before and after the change was 0 pounds.
    The impact of the deed of variation will surely be felt when the rest of the property is inherited by them (presuming that it will be). So more a question of having engaged in practices that will avoid taxes in the future. I'm guessing that whoever was paid to advise them about this would qualify for the description of a "predatory capitalist".

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    I see it is Wednesday before the Scottish poling is released.

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3h 3 hours ago
    Pls retweet that my Scottish individual constituency poll will be released at 11am Wed at http://lordashcroftpolls.com Register there to receive


    Meanwhile the Telegraph is having a titter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

    "Ed Miliband tells Boots boss who lives in Monaco: Pay your taxes"

    I'm sure the Monaconian government will welcome this reminder to their citizen.

    Ed M can criticise others for legal tax avoidance when the Miliband family cough up the Inheritance Tax they dodged on his father's estate . Until then, he just another hypocrite.
    They haven't avoided any tax
    They haven't evaded any tax, but they certainly avoided it.

    How has he avoided it? When my Dad died his share of the estate just passed to my Mum. Isn't that what happened with the Milibands?

    Ralph left 20% to each brother when he died, and the rest went through their mother. That means they got to use the tax-free threshold twice.
    Sounds like common sense to me.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Pulpstar said:

    Ralph left 20% to each brother when he died, and the rest went through their mother. That means they got to use the tax-free threshold twice.

    Sounds like common sense to me.

    I don't see anything wrong with it, but it certainly goes against the Labour line that tax avoidance, and not just tax evasion, is wrong.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    I see it is Wednesday before the Scottish poling is released.

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3h 3 hours ago
    Pls retweet that my Scottish individual constituency poll will be released at 11am Wed at http://lordashcroftpolls.com Register there to receive


    Meanwhile the Telegraph is having a titter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

    "Ed Miliband tells Boots boss who lives in Monaco: Pay your taxes"

    I'm sure the Monaconian government will welcome this reminder to their citizen.

    Ed M can criticise others for legal tax avoidance when the Miliband family cough up the Inheritance Tax they dodged on his father's estate . Until then, he just another hypocrite.
    They haven't avoided any tax
    They haven't evaded any tax, but they certainly avoided it.

    How has he avoided it? When my Dad died his share of the estate just passed to my Mum. Isn't that what happened with the Milibands?

    Ralph left 20% to each brother when he died, and the rest went through their mother. That means they got to use the tax-free threshold twice.
    Sounds like common sense to me.
    But you're a right-wing / flirting-with-voting-Liberal-Democrat type. Even if you dont think it's objectionable from a politician in itself there is surely the question of the hypocrisy of it all.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited February 2015
    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,123
    edited February 2015
    Sean_F said:

    For those wot missed it yesterday:

    Sunil Prasannan ‏@Sunil_P2 · Feb 1
    ELBOW (Electoral Leader-Board Of the Week) 1st Feb: Lab 33.3, Con 32.9, UKIP 15.4, LD 6.9, Grn 6.3. Lowest Lab % lead

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/561853144913555456

    Whats the running Sunil on this week?

    lol
    Lab 34, Con 31, UKIP 14, Others 21.

    Lab lead over Con 2.8%

    LD lead over Greens 3.3%
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Ralph left 20% to each brother when he died, and the rest went through their mother. That means they got to use the tax-free threshold twice.

    Sounds like common sense to me.
    I don't see anything wrong with it, but it certainly goes against the Labour line that tax avoidance, and not just tax evasion, is wrong.

    Tax avoidance and evasion are both wrong.

    Tax planning however is sensible.

    THis comes back to Alistair's point about tightening up country by country accounts reporting rules.

    As a director of a company, you have a fiduciary duty to the company, not the Government - so paying more tax than is necessary is not in keeping with those duties. Hence the need for zero tolerance on transfer pricing and country by country reporting.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
  • O/T

    FAO : BJO - I notice Matin Laird finally finished tied 5th in the Phoenix Open Golf (after visiting the water at the last). Was this still a profitable bet for you, I recall that you were set to clean up if he finished top 3?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Neil said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    I see it is Wednesday before the Scottish poling is released.

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3h 3 hours ago
    Pls retweet that my Scottish individual constituency poll will be released at 11am Wed at http://lordashcroftpolls.com Register there to receive


    Meanwhile the Telegraph is having a titter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

    "Ed Miliband tells Boots boss who lives in Monaco: Pay your taxes"

    I'm sure the Monaconian government will welcome this reminder to their citizen.

    Ed M can criticise others for legal tax avoidance when the Miliband family cough up the Inheritance Tax they dodged on his father's estate . Until then, he just another hypocrite.
    They haven't avoided any tax
    They haven't evaded any tax, but they certainly avoided it.

    How has he avoided it? When my Dad died his share of the estate just passed to my Mum. Isn't that what happened with the Milibands?

    Ralph left 20% to each brother when he died, and the rest went through their mother. That means they got to use the tax-free threshold twice.
    Sounds like common sense to me.
    But you're a right-wing / flirting-with-voting-Liberal-Democrat type. Even if you dont think it's objectionable from a politician in itself there is surely the question of the hypocrisy of it all.

    I'd say I'm in the centre ground as of now :)
    Like Clegg :D
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    That, on the other hand, is well wrong.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited February 2015

    Socrates said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    I see it is Wednesday before the Scottish poling is released.

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3h 3 hours ago
    Pls retweet that my Scottish individual constituency poll will be released at 11am Wed at http://lordashcroftpolls.com Register there to receive


    Meanwhile the Telegraph is having a titter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

    "Ed Miliband tells Boots boss who lives in Monaco: Pay your taxes"

    I'm sure the Monaconian government will welcome this reminder to their citizen.

    Ed M can criticise others for legal tax avoidance when the Miliband family cough up the Inheritance Tax they dodged on his father's estate . Until then, he just another hypocrite.
    They haven't avoided any tax
    They haven't evaded any tax, but they certainly avoided it.

    How has he avoided it? When my Dad died his share of the estate just passed to my Mum. Isn't that what happened with the Milibands?

    "Marxist academic Ralph Miliband owned a house in Edis Street, Primrose Hill. At some point after he died in 1994, his widow and two sons signed a "deed of variation" to his will that gave Ed and David each a 20% share in the house, which meant that on their mother's death they would pay inheritance tax only on the remaining 60%."
    Ian Jack

    It basically reduced the size of any IHT bill on 2nd death (his mother whenever) by reducing the assets that went via the surviving spouse. However after the tax changes in October 2008 this was no longer necessary due to spousal transfer of any unused IHT allowances. If her assets are sizable she can/could utilise the 7 year rule on gifts.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    Could get picked up now it's been mentioned on this thread - it wouldn't surprise me if CCHQ have some teenagers employed on £6.50 an hour paid to trawl through social media all day.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Socrates said:

    @rcs1000

    One missing piece of your argument is that there the renewables obligation means that there are different market rates for green energy and non-green energy. So theoretically you could get the higher price from generating green energy, and a lower price for the (mostly) non-green energy you used to build it.

    Although realistically this is likely to be more than covered by non-energy costs.

    The vast majority of the nonsense stemming from the debate over wind farms is based on what the Green Crap has done to public perception. It is purely the result of political decisions.

    The marginal cost of wind energy is near zero, compared to any non-renewable source of power, it is incredibly cheap. The problem stems from the inflexibility of markets to address (mainly) barriers to entry, as they have a relatively high up front cost.

    When the shift began, the focus of both Tory and Labour party is on a refusal to recognise market failure and attempts to gerrymander the market with a price based incentive to switch production. Hence the higher guarantees of price for renewable electricity to overcome the barrier to entry that existing government funded infrastructure created.

    It would have been better for the public perception, if the choice had been made simply to nationalise the construction of wind farms or to subsidise the construction out of general taxation. However as this would have impacted the PSBR it was not politically acceptable to either the Tories or NuLabour.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    Pessina is an Italian who has, as far as I can make out, never lived in the UK and therefore never had any UK tax liability. So absurd of EdM to make this - as he appeared to today - an issue of the individual's tax liability, as opposed to the issue of how Boots arranges its tax affairs.

    But in any case it might have been better to focus on what Labour would do to make the economy better. It's the fact that Labour do not appear to have anything to say on this which is the issue. Expressing resentment (even if shared) is one thing but it is not sensible politics.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edited February 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    Could get picked up now it's been mentioned on this thread - it wouldn't surprise me if CCHQ have some teenagers employed on £6.50 an hour paid to trawl through social media all day.
    I hope they do some proper research and dont go all in on the back of presumptions. That could cause them difficulties down the road.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    edited February 2015
    Councillors.

    UKIP (+1)
    Ind (-1)

    Boston and Skegness.

    Big news folks...
  • Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    CGT avoidance, potentially very serious. More explainable if one residence is in Doncaster (for him).
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    CGT avoidance, potentially very serious. More explainable if one residence is in Doncaster (for him).
    And a serious accusation to be throwing around on someone else's blog as well.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    CGT avoidance, potentially very serious. More explainable if one residence is in Doncaster (for him).
    And a serious accusation to be throwing around on someone else's blog as well.

    I'm not stating anything other than the truth that they listed their two flats as different primary residences, which is something admitted by the Labour party.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    Alistair said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    That, on the other hand, is well wrong.
    One could (if one was being generous) say it's a quid pro quo for the fact that unmarried couples will face IHT on anything they leave to each other over and above £325,000, whereas married couples can leave each other an unlimited amount.

    Married couples can also transfer assets to each other without facing IHT.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    edited February 2015
    Labour slips to a new mid-spread low of 280 today with Sporting's 2015 GE Seats market, while the Tories are 2 seats ahead on a mid-spread of 282.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    Allegedly, some have said this is potentiallyCGT avoidance, potentially very serious. More explainable if one residence is in Doncaster (for him).
    And a serious accusation to be throwing around on someone else's blog as well.

    Is that the get of jail free for libel, a few weasel words and "allegedly" chucked in for good measure ?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    CGT avoidance, potentially very serious. More explainable if one residence is in Doncaster (for him).
    No, both residences I'm talking about were two flats in London, prior to Summer 2009. They moved into their current home together then, and haven't sold it yet, so have yet to make a decision about whose primary residence they list it as.
  • Socrates said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    I see it is Wednesday before the Scottish poling is released.

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3h 3 hours ago
    Pls retweet that my Scottish individual constituency poll will be released at 11am Wed at http://lordashcroftpolls.com Register there to receive


    Meanwhile the Telegraph is having a titter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

    "Ed Miliband tells Boots boss who lives in Monaco: Pay your taxes"

    I'm sure the Monaconian government will welcome this reminder to their citizen.

    Ed M can criticise others for legal tax avoidance when the Miliband family cough up the Inheritance Tax they dodged on his father's estate . Until then, he just another hypocrite.
    They haven't avoided any tax
    They haven't evaded any tax, but they certainly avoided it.

    How has he avoided it? When my Dad died his share of the estate just passed to my Mum. Isn't that what happened with the Milibands?

    "Marxist academic Ralph Miliband owned a house in Edis Street, Primrose Hill. At some point after he died in 1994, his widow and two sons signed a "deed of variation" to his will that gave Ed and David each a 20% share in the house, which meant that on their mother's death they would pay inheritance tax only on the remaining 60%."
    Ian Jack

    It basically reduced the size of any IHT bill on 2nd death (his mother whenever) by reducing the assets that went via the surviving spouse. However after the tax changes in October 2008 this was no longer necessary due to spousal transfer of any unused IHT allowances. If her assets are sizable she can/could utilise the 7 year rule on gifts.

    So as his mother is still alive EdM has not avoided any tax at all.

  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Sean_F said:

    For those wot missed it yesterday:

    Sunil Prasannan ‏@Sunil_P2 · Feb 1
    ELBOW (Electoral Leader-Board Of the Week) 1st Feb: Lab 33.3, Con 32.9, UKIP 15.4, LD 6.9, Grn 6.3. Lowest Lab % lead

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/561853144913555456

    Whats the running Sunil on this week?

    lol
    Lab 34, Con 31, UKIP 14, Others 21.

    Lab lead over Con 2.8%

    LD lead over Greens 3.3%
    May I ask who the heck are those Others on 21% with Populus?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    The best thing about laying Dave rather than backing Ed on the PM market is that I now have Boris Johnson at +£28.50 to form the first ministry after the GE !
  • dr_spyn said:

    Not yet sure which party will find that this protest works to its disadvantage?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-31088052

    Could damage, LDs, Greens, or Labour in Bristol W.

    None of them. Stapleton is in Bristol East
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    Socrates said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    I see it is Wednesday before the Scottish poling is released.

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3h 3 hours ago
    Pls retweet that my Scottish individual constituency poll will be released at 11am Wed at http://lordashcroftpolls.com Register there to receive


    Meanwhile the Telegraph is having a titter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

    "Ed Miliband tells Boots boss who lives in Monaco: Pay your taxes"

    I'm sure the Monaconian government will welcome this reminder to their citizen.

    Ed M can criticise others for legal tax avoidance when the Miliband family cough up the Inheritance Tax they dodged on his father's estate . Until then, he just another hypocrite.
    They haven't avoided any tax
    They haven't evaded any tax, but they certainly avoided it.

    How has he avoided it? When my Dad died his share of the estate just passed to my Mum. Isn't that what happened with the Milibands?

    "Marxist academic Ralph Miliband owned a house in Edis Street, Primrose Hill. At some point after he died in 1994, his widow and two sons signed a "deed of variation" to his will that gave Ed and David each a 20% share in the house, which meant that on their mother's death they would pay inheritance tax only on the remaining 60%."
    Ian Jack

    It basically reduced the size of any IHT bill on 2nd death (his mother whenever) by reducing the assets that went via the surviving spouse. However after the tax changes in October 2008 this was no longer necessary due to spousal transfer of any unused IHT allowances. If her assets are sizable she can/could utilise the 7 year rule on gifts.

    So as his mother is still alive EdM has not avoided any tax at all.

    No, but he has planned for doing so once his mother dies. Which is sensible and perfectly legal, just hypocritical.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    CGT avoidance, potentially very serious. More explainable if one residence is in Doncaster (for him).
    And a serious accusation to be throwing around on someone else's blog as well.

    I'm not stating anything other than the truth that they listed their two flats as different primary residences, which is something admitted by the Labour party.
    You are also suggesting that there was something against either the spirit or even the letter of the law in what they did. You seem to be basing this on rather intimate knowledge of their living arrangements at the relevant time which, frankly, I dont believe you really possess.



  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Pulpstar said:

    Councillors.

    UKIP (+1)
    Ind (-1)

    Boston and Skegness.

    Big news folks...

    Stop the presses, hold the front page !
  • Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    CGT avoidance, potentially very serious. More explainable if one residence is in Doncaster (for him).
    And a serious accusation to be throwing around on someone else's blog as well.

    I'm not stating anything other than the truth that they listed their two flats as different primary residences, which is something admitted by the Labour party.

    Their first child was born in 2009, the year it looks like they moved in together. Is it that unusual for long-term couples to live in different residences before settling down together? I know a fair few people who have done it.

  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    saddened said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Councillors.

    UKIP (+1)
    Ind (-1)

    Boston and Skegness.

    Big news folks...

    Stop the presses, hold the front page !
    Page 2, for the local Boston newspaper.
    Still might be worth another 100 extra votes in the constituency, although UKIP are already favourites.
  • Speedy said:

    Sean_F said:

    For those wot missed it yesterday:

    Sunil Prasannan ‏@Sunil_P2 · Feb 1
    ELBOW (Electoral Leader-Board Of the Week) 1st Feb: Lab 33.3, Con 32.9, UKIP 15.4, LD 6.9, Grn 6.3. Lowest Lab % lead

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/561853144913555456

    Whats the running Sunil on this week?

    lol
    Lab 34, Con 31, UKIP 14, Others 21.

    Lab lead over Con 2.8%

    LD lead over Greens 3.3%
    May I ask who the heck are those Others on 21% with Populus?
    LD 8
    Grn 5
    SNP 5
    others 3 (AIUI)
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited February 2015
    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    CGT avoidance, potentially very serious. More explainable if one residence is in Doncaster (for him).
    And a serious accusation to be throwing around on someone else's blog as well.

    I'm not stating anything other than the truth that they listed their two flats as different primary residences, which is something admitted by the Labour party.
    You are also suggesting that there was something against either the spirit or even the letter of the law in what they did. You seem to be basing this on rather intimate knowledge of their living arrangements at the relevant time which, frankly, I dont believe you really possess.
    I never mentioned the letter of the law. I said something seemed to go against the spirit, but I don't know for certain.

    All I know is that Ed Miliband sold a flat in December 2009 and didn't pay capital gains tax on it because he was listing it as his primary residence - a different primary residence to his then girlfriend. Given that she had been pregnant and gave birth to his first son nine months before this date, I have said it would be fun to hear Ed Miliband's take on all this in an interview.
  • saddened said:

    Socrates said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    I see it is Wednesday before the Scottish poling is released.

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3h 3 hours ago
    Pls retweet that my Scottish individual constituency poll will be released at 11am Wed at http://lordashcroftpolls.com Register there to receive


    Meanwhile the Telegraph is having a titter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

    "Ed Miliband tells Boots boss who lives in Monaco: Pay your taxes"

    I'm sure the Monaconian government will welcome this reminder to their citizen.

    Ed M can criticise others for legal tax avoidance when the Miliband family cough up the Inheritance Tax they dodged on his father's estate . Until then, he just another hypocrite.
    They haven't avoided any tax
    They haven't evaded any tax, but they certainly avoided it.

    How has he avoided it? When my Dad died his share of the estate just passed to my Mum. Isn't that what happened with the Milibands?

    "Marxist academic Ralph Miliband owned a house in Edis Street, Primrose Hill. At some point after he died in 1994, his widow and two sons signed a "deed of variation" to his will that gave Ed and David each a 20% share in the house, which meant that on their mother's death they would pay inheritance tax only on the remaining 60%."
    Ian Jack

    It basically reduced the size of any IHT bill on 2nd death (his mother whenever) by reducing the assets that went via the surviving spouse. However after the tax changes in October 2008 this was no longer necessary due to spousal transfer of any unused IHT allowances. If her assets are sizable she can/could utilise the 7 year rule on gifts.

    So as his mother is still alive EdM has not avoided any tax at all.

    No, but he has planned for doing so once his mother dies. Which is sensible and perfectly legal, just hypocritical.

    His parents planned, not him.

  • PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 665
    edited February 2015
    Socrates and others - If you're going to talk about Ed Miliband's tax affairs we're going to insist on a link from a reputable site to back up your assertions.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates and others - If you're going to talk about Ed Miliband's tax affairs we're going to insist on a link from a reputable site to back up your assertions.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/8039829/Red-Ed-Miliband-lives-in-1.6m-house-after-shrewd-property-moves.html
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    saddened said:

    Socrates said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    I see it is Wednesday before the Scottish poling is released.

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3h 3 hours ago
    Pls retweet that my Scottish individual constituency poll will be released at 11am Wed at http://lordashcroftpolls.com Register there to receive


    Meanwhile the Telegraph is having a titter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

    "Ed Miliband tells Boots boss who lives in Monaco: Pay your taxes"

    I'm sure the Monaconian government will welcome this reminder to their citizen.

    Ed M can criticise others for legal tax avoidance when the Miliband family cough up the Inheritance Tax they dodged on his father's estate . Until then, he just another hypocrite.
    They haven't avoided any tax
    They haven't evaded any tax, but they certainly avoided it.

    How has he avoided it? When my Dad died his share of the estate just passed to my Mum. Isn't that what happened with the Milibands?

    "Marxist academic Ralph Miliband owned a house in Edis Street, Primrose Hill. At some point after he died in 1994, his widow and two sons signed a "deed of variation" to his will that gave Ed and David each a 20% share in the house, which meant that on their mother's death they would pay inheritance tax only on the remaining 60%."
    Ian Jack

    It basically reduced the size of any IHT bill on 2nd death (his mother whenever) by reducing the assets that went via the surviving spouse. However after the tax changes in October 2008 this was no longer necessary due to spousal transfer of any unused IHT allowances. If her assets are sizable she can/could utilise the 7 year rule on gifts.

    So as his mother is still alive EdM has not avoided any tax at all.

    No, but he has planned for doing so once his mother dies. Which is sensible and perfectly legal, just hypocritical.

    His parents planned, not him.

    No. He would have been required to sign the deed of variation himself. Indeed the only member of the family who cant be accused of having planned this is Ralph as he was dead at the time. Presumably, as a good socialist, he wouldnt have approved of all this in any case.

  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    CGT avoidance, potentially very serious. More explainable if one residence is in Doncaster (for him).
    And a serious accusation to be throwing around on someone else's blog as well.

    I'm not stating anything other than the truth that they listed their two flats as different primary residences, which is something admitted by the Labour party.
    You are also suggesting that there was something against either the spirit or even the letter of the law in what they did. You seem to be basing this on rather intimate knowledge of their living arrangements at the relevant time which, frankly, I dont believe you really possess.
    I never mentioned the letter of the law. I said something seemed to go against the spirit, but I don't know for certain.

    All I know is that Ed Miliband sold a flat in December 2009 and didn't pay capital gains tax on it because he was listing it as his primary residence - a different primary residence to his then girlfriend. Given that she had been pregnant and gave birth to his first son nine months before this date, I have said it would be fun to hear Ed Miliband's take on all this in an interview.
    Even if that is the case, it is still a very flimsy case.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    saddened said:



    No, but he has planned for doing so once his mother dies. Which is sensible and perfectly legal, just hypocritical.

    His parents planned, not him.

    No, they didn't. It was a deed of variation signed after his father's death, so it was planned by him and the other signatories (his mother and brother).
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    CGT avoidance, potentially very serious. More explainable if one residence is in Doncaster (for him).
    And a serious accusation to be throwing around on someone else's blog as well.

    I'm not stating anything other than the truth that they listed their two flats as different primary residences, which is something admitted by the Labour party.

    Their first child was born in 2009, the year it looks like they moved in together. Is it that unusual for long-term couples to live in different residences before settling down together? I know a fair few people who have done it.

    Their first child was born around spring 2009, while Ed sold up in December 2009. Presumably Justine was pregnant for about nine months before that too. So they started a family a fair time before selling up Ed's flat.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited February 2015
    I wonder what the lowest matched BF trade for NOM will be before May 7th?

    It can't possibly go under 1.2, can it?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Socrates said:

    Socrates and others - If you're going to talk about Ed Miliband's tax affairs we're going to insist on a link from a reputable site to back up your assertions.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/8039829/Red-Ed-Miliband-lives-in-1.6m-house-after-shrewd-property-moves.html
    "As he is not married to his girlfriend, he is also eligible for a lucrative tax perk if he chooses to sell a house in the future."

    Is that a government incentive to depress marriage rates?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    I do wish bookies would have a better system in place for long term bets

    Can't view them with Bet365 or 888, William Hills system isn't the best either.

    Ladbrokes for all their website's faults and Paddy Power are the best two by a mile.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2015
    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    CGT avoidance, potentially very serious. More explainable if one residence is in Doncaster (for him).
    And a serious accusation to be throwing around on someone else's blog as well.

    I'm not stating anything other than the truth that they listed their two flats as different primary residences, which is something admitted by the Labour party.
    You are also suggesting that there was something against either the spirit or even the letter of the law in what they did. You seem to be basing this on rather intimate knowledge of their living arrangements at the relevant time which, frankly, I dont believe you really possess.
    I never mentioned the letter of the law. I said something seemed to go against the spirit, but I don't know for certain.

    All I know is that Ed Miliband sold a flat in December 2009 and didn't pay capital gains tax on it because he was listing it as his primary residence - a different primary residence to his then girlfriend. Given that she had been pregnant and gave birth to his first son nine months before this date, I have said it would be fun to hear Ed Miliband's take on all this in an interview.
    If it was your primary residence, and then you move out (and let it, for example) you get 36 months relief from CGT. So if Ed bought in 2000, moved in with Justine in 2006, and then sold in 2009, he's fine.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/323679/hs283.pdf
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Pong said:

    I wonder what the lowest matched BF trade for NOM will be before May 7th?

    It can't possibly go under 1.2, can it?

    No idea, it may well do - but the polls could yet shift... in either direction the constituency odds point to 1.3 being too low but those themselves are probably too long for the odds on favourite in alot of them.

    The truth I suspect is somewhere in the middle.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Speedy said:

    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    CGT avoidance, potentially very serious. More explainable if one residence is in Doncaster (for him).
    And a serious accusation to be throwing around on someone else's blog as well.

    I'm not stating anything other than the truth that they listed their two flats as different primary residences, which is something admitted by the Labour party.
    You are also suggesting that there was something against either the spirit or even the letter of the law in what they did. You seem to be basing this on rather intimate knowledge of their living arrangements at the relevant time which, frankly, I dont believe you really possess.
    I never mentioned the letter of the law. I said something seemed to go against the spirit, but I don't know for certain.

    All I know is that Ed Miliband sold a flat in December 2009 and didn't pay capital gains tax on it because he was listing it as his primary residence - a different primary residence to his then girlfriend. Given that she had been pregnant and gave birth to his first son nine months before this date, I have said it would be fun to hear Ed Miliband's take on all this in an interview.
    Even if that is the case, it is still a very flimsy case.
    Yes. Legally, it is entirely consistent with Ed Miliband not living with the mother of his son while she was pregnant or during the first ~eight months of his life, which may be the case. Alternatively, the press may have reported the facts incorrectly. I'm sure Ed can clear it up for us.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    AndyJS said:
    It's hard to see how she can avoid a custodial sentence.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    AndyJS said:
    Well the local Tories won't have that money trouble anymore, for the marginal there in May.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Swap the name 'Miliband' for that of a Tory, and the myriad voices swarming out of the woodwork to defend the former for his family's 'tax planning' would be having a complete shit fit.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Anorak said:

    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    CGT avoidance, potentially very serious. More explainable if one residence is in Doncaster (for him).
    And a serious accusation to be throwing around on someone else's blog as well.

    I'm not stating anything other than the truth that they listed their two flats as different primary residences, which is something admitted by the Labour party.
    You are also suggesting that there was something against either the spirit or even the letter of the law in what they did. You seem to be basing this on rather intimate knowledge of their living arrangements at the relevant time which, frankly, I dont believe you really possess.
    I never mentioned the letter of the law. I said something seemed to go against the spirit, but I don't know for certain.

    All I know is that Ed Miliband sold a flat in December 2009 and didn't pay capital gains tax on it because he was listing it as his primary residence - a different primary residence to his then girlfriend. Given that she had been pregnant and gave birth to his first son nine months before this date, I have said it would be fun to hear Ed Miliband's take on all this in an interview.
    If it was your primary residence, and then you move out (and let it, for example) you get 36 months relief from CGT. So if Ed bought in 2000, moved in with Justine in 2006, and then sold in 2009, he's fine.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/323679/hs283.pdf
    He bought it in 2006.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 17m17 minutes ago Camberwell, London
    Both Cam and Ed did very well. Ed looked more at ease, but he also had one significant slip-up, over Treasury/Harvard.

    Ed did very well.

    Nearly fell off my chair


    Dan cant be feeling well
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Neil said:

    saddened said:

    Socrates said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Alistair said:

    I see it is Wednesday before the Scottish poling is released.

    Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft · 3h 3 hours ago
    Pls retweet that my Scottish individual constituency poll will be released at 11am Wed at http://lordashcroftpolls.com Register there to receive


    Meanwhile the Telegraph is having a titter

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

    "Ed Miliband tells Boots boss who lives in Monaco: Pay your taxes"

    I'm sure the Monaconian government will welcome this reminder to their citizen.

    Ed M can criticise others for legal tax avoidance when the Miliband family cough up the Inheritance Tax they dodged on his father's estate . Until then, he just another hypocrite.
    They haven't avoided any tax
    They haven't evaded any tax, but they certainly avoided it.

    How has he avoided it? When my Dad died his share of the estate just passed to my Mum. Isn't that what happened with the Milibands?

    "Marxist academic Ralph Miliband owned a house in Edis Street, Primrose Hill. At some point after he died in 1994, his widow and two sons signed a "deed of variation" to his will that gave Ed and David each a 20% share in the house, which meant that on their mother's death they would pay inheritance tax only on the remaining 60%."
    Ian Jack

    It basically reduced the size of any IHT bill on 2nd death (his mother whenever) by reducing the assets that went via the surviving spouse. However after the tax changes in October 2008 this was no longer necessary due to spousal transfer of any unused IHT allowances. If her assets are sizable she can/could utilise the 7 year rule on gifts.

    So as his mother is still alive EdM has not avoided any tax at all.

    No, but he has planned for doing so once his mother dies. Which is sensible and perfectly legal, just hypocritical.

    His parents planned, not him.

    No. He would have been required to sign the deed of variation himself. Indeed the only member of the family who cant be accused of having planned this is Ralph as he was dead at the time. Presumably, as a good socialist, he wouldnt have approved of all this in any case.

    @Neil - How do you do it, skewering both the Ed Miliband defenders and attackers :D ?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Socrates said:



    Their first child was born around spring 2009, while Ed sold up in December 2009. Presumably Justine was pregnant for about nine months before that too. So they started a family a fair time before selling up Ed's flat.

    You're allowed to live away from the home for the first 12 months after buying it or the 18 months before selling it while still having it designated as a primary residence for CGT purposes. I'm struggling to see the case you think it would be fun to see Ed answer.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    It's great to watch the Luvvies on here squirming about tax avoidance/evasion - and all because Ed Miliband told an Italian living in Monaco he should pay tax in the UK!
  • I missed this yesterday. A WTF.
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/01/2016-general-election-prediction

    "a new electoral forecast by Prof Paul Whiteley at the University of Essex, co-director of the British Election Study from 2001 to 2012. Whiteley’s forecast, based on mathematical modelling, focuses on what happened to seats in previous election rather than the overall share of the vote and is based on a model developed while the British Election Study was based at Essex. ...The new forecast for the 2015 election released to the Guardian shows Labour on 291 seats, the Conservatives 281, the Lib Dems 48 and others 30."

    LD incumbency keeps losses to 9? They have 11 changes already.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Socrates said:

    Anorak said:

    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    CGT avoidance, potentially very serious. More explainable if one residence is in Doncaster (for him).
    And a serious accusation to be throwing around on someone else's blog as well.

    I'm not stating anything other than the truth that they listed their two flats as different primary residences, which is something admitted by the Labour party.
    You are also suggesting that there was something against either the spirit or even the letter of the law in what they did. You seem to be basing this on rather intimate knowledge of their living arrangements at the relevant time which, frankly, I dont believe you really possess.
    I never mentioned the letter of the law. I said something seemed to go against the spirit, but I don't know for certain.

    All I know is that Ed Miliband sold a flat in December 2009 and didn't pay capital gains tax on it because he was listing it as his primary residence - a different primary residence to his then girlfriend. Given that she had been pregnant and gave birth to his first son nine months before this date, I have said it would be fun to hear Ed Miliband's take on all this in an interview.
    If it was your primary residence, and then you move out (and let it, for example) you get 36 months relief from CGT. So if Ed bought in 2000, moved in with Justine in 2006, and then sold in 2009, he's fine.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/323679/hs283.pdf
    He bought it in 2006.
    And when do your spies say they moved in together?
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Anyone who does not legally avoid paying tax is a fool..
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Speedy said:

    AndyJS said:
    Well the local Tories won't have that money trouble anymore, for the marginal there in May.
    They won't get any of it back, I've been involved in this position in a professional capacity before - chances of her having "spent" it all, 100% imo.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Socrates said:

    Anorak said:

    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    CGT avoidance, potentially very serious. More explainable if one residence is in Doncaster (for him).
    And a serious accusation to be throwing around on someone else's blog as well.

    I'm not stating anything other than the truth that they listed their two flats as different primary residences, which is something admitted by the Labour party.
    You are also suggesting that there was something against either the spirit or even the letter of the law in what they did. You seem to be basing this on rather intimate knowledge of their living arrangements at the relevant time which, frankly, I dont believe you really possess.
    I never mentioned the letter of the law. I said something seemed to go against the spirit, but I don't know for certain.

    All I know is that Ed Miliband sold a flat in December 2009 and didn't pay capital gains tax on it because he was listing it as his primary residence - a different primary residence to his then girlfriend. Given that she had been pregnant and gave birth to his first son nine months before this date, I have said it would be fun to hear Ed Miliband's take on all this in an interview.
    If it was your primary residence, and then you move out (and let it, for example) you get 36 months relief from CGT. So if Ed bought in 2000, moved in with Justine in 2006, and then sold in 2009, he's fine.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/323679/hs283.pdf
    He bought it in 2006.
    Then if he lived there for a week at the start, he has no CGT liability. Non story (sadly).
  • felix said:

    It's great to watch the Luvvies on here squirming about tax avoidance/evasion - and all because Ed Miliband told an Italian living in Monaco he should pay tax in the UK!

    When did he say that?

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,975
    Moderator

    "Socrates and others - If you're going to talk about Ed Miliband's tax affairs we're going to insist on a link from a reputable site to back up your assertions."

    I think I find Socrates less tawdry when he follows his paedophile obsessions but it's a close run thing
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ashcroft serves up a Thai.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    Ashcroft poll - level pegging.
  • Seems Socrates hasn't talked about Muslims and/or immigrants all day!
  • Thought this article might be interesting, but Kellner doesn't know his subject. Anyone who has a passing knowledge of the tabloid press stories on immigration for the past couple of decades will know about the Albanian connection to Kosovo, and the stories there have been in the tabloid press about Albanians allegedly posing as Kosovars to enter the country as refugees.

    Also notable that Kellner mentions "...clear majorities are happy for people in four significant categories to continue coming to Britain in either the same or greater numbers than today." without mentioning at all the opposition to immigration from the other three groups in his poll, notably including refugees.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173

    felix said:

    It's great to watch the Luvvies on here squirming about tax avoidance/evasion - and all because Ed Miliband told an Italian living in Monaco he should pay tax in the UK!

    When did he say that?

    Mr Miliband added: “So Mr Pessina, who’s being trying to lecture us about what we should be doing in this country – frankly I think he should be paying his taxes.”

    Daily Telegraph today.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,632

    I missed this yesterday. A WTF.
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/01/2016-general-election-prediction

    "a new electoral forecast by Prof Paul Whiteley at the University of Essex, co-director of the British Election Study from 2001 to 2012. Whiteley’s forecast, based on mathematical modelling, focuses on what happened to seats in previous election rather than the overall share of the vote and is based on a model developed while the British Election Study was based at Essex. ...The new forecast for the 2015 election released to the Guardian shows Labour on 291 seats, the Conservatives 281, the Lib Dems 48 and others 30."

    LD incumbency keeps losses to 9? They have 11 changes already.

    Just so everyone knows, if anyone wishes to "buy" the LibDems at the forecast of Prof Whitely, I am happy to take the other side of the trade.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    felix said:

    It's great to watch the Luvvies on here squirming about tax avoidance/evasion - and all because Ed Miliband told an Italian living in Monaco he should pay tax in the UK!

    I dont think he did do you?

    He was referring to Boots not the Billionaire from Monaco who says he was misquoted, wasn't he?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited February 2015
    Neil said:

    Socrates said:



    Their first child was born around spring 2009, while Ed sold up in December 2009. Presumably Justine was pregnant for about nine months before that too. So they started a family a fair time before selling up Ed's flat.

    You're allowed to live away from the home for the first 12 months after buying it or the 18 months before selling it while still having it designated as a primary residence for CGT purposes. I'm struggling to see the case you think it would be fun to see Ed answer.
    So if you buy a place, live somewhere else for twelve month, live it in for a month, and then live somewhere else for 18 months, you can list it as a primary residence for the entire time? That doesn't seem right.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    It is highly likely that this year one of the UK's major civil engineering companies will be bought by the Chinese.

    It would be very interesting to see EdM enforce payment of either Corporation tax or any tax on fees, salary and benefits received by a member of the Chinese board, sat in Beijing or Shanghai.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited February 2015

    felix said:

    It's great to watch the Luvvies on here squirming about tax avoidance/evasion - and all because Ed Miliband told an Italian living in Monaco he should pay tax in the UK!

    I dont think he did do you?

    He was referring to Boots not the Billionaire from Monaco who says he was misquoted, wasn't he?
    Spin away.

    'The boss of High Street retailer Boots "ought to pay his taxes" rather than "trying to lecture us about what we should be doing in this country", Labour leader Ed Miliband has said.'

    and

    "It turns out that the chairman of Boots lives in Monaco and is actually avoiding his taxes," he said.

    bonus quote

    "I don't think people in Britain are going to take kindly to being lectured by someone who is avoiding his taxes on how they should be voting in the UK general election."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31089663
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    john_zims said:

    @Socrates

    'I also disagree on EU product type-approvals. That's true for UK exports to Europe, but we probably wouldn't want our products to have to meet EU standards for export to Canada and the US, for example.'

    Instead of using EU standards that are universally approved & used by numerous countries around the world you would prefer to get approval on a country by country basis?

    Assume you have no connection with business.

    Canada is signing a EU comprehensive trade agreement - which includes products standards amongst many other things like greater movement of Labour. 'Agreements' with other countries would involve much more than tariffs and standards. These things go very deep the structure of an economy.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    felix said:

    It's great to watch the Luvvies on here squirming about tax avoidance/evasion - and all because Ed Miliband told an Italian living in Monaco he should pay tax in the UK!

    I dont think he did do you?

    He was referring to Boots not the Billionaire from Monaco who says he was misquoted, wasn't he?
    Sorry I see you were right. EIC should have gone on the Corporate tax avoidance IMO

    Still dont think siding with Billionaire Tax Avoiders is a vote winner for the Tories do you?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    felix said:

    It's great to watch the Luvvies on here squirming about tax avoidance/evasion - and all because Ed Miliband told an Italian living in Monaco he should pay tax in the UK!

    I dont think he did do you?

    He was referring to Boots not the Billionaire from Monaco who says he was misquoted, wasn't he?
    Spin away.

    'The boss of High Street retailer Boots "ought to pay his taxes" rather than "trying to lecture us about what we should be doing in this country", Labour leader Ed Miliband has said.'

    and

    "It turns out that the chairman of Boots lives in Monaco and is actually avoiding his taxes," he said.

    bonus quote

    "I don't think people in Britain are going to take kindly to being lectured by someone who is avoiding his taxes on how they should be voting in the UK general election."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31089663
    See my next post I was wrong but still vote winner for Lab rather than the party that will defend Boots AND its Billionaire tax avoider methinks
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    felix said:

    It's great to watch the Luvvies on here squirming about tax avoidance/evasion - and all because Ed Miliband told an Italian living in Monaco he should pay tax in the UK!

    I dont think he did do you?

    He was referring to Boots not the Billionaire from Monaco who says he was misquoted, wasn't he?
    Sorry I see you were right. EIC should have gone on the Corporate tax avoidance IMO

    Still dont think siding with Billionaire Tax Avoiders is a vote winner for the Tories do you?
    The Tories are busy extracting tax from all the people Labour could not be bothered with. £7.2 billion from £43000 people. What must be doubly annoying is that all the people who made money out of helping people avoid paying tax under labour probably avoided paying tax themselves on their ill gotten gains.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Socrates said:

    The other thing Ed did was for him and his girlfriend, in a serious long term relationship with children, to list different houses as "primary residences", and thus avoid capital gains tax on two properties. Given they were almost certainly living together at this time, this seems to go against the spirit of the taxation system, and I have more issue with it than I do with the IHT avoidance.

    Yes, that does indeed sound dubious at first look.
    I wonder if it'll get brought up in the election campaign. It'd be fun to see Ed Miliband defend listing two places as primary residences and claiming him and the mother of his children weren't living together.

    However, journalists aren't always great at keeping their eye on the ball and have focused on the IHT issue, which is far more defensible.
    Could get picked up now it's been mentioned on this thread - it wouldn't surprise me if CCHQ have some teenagers employed on £6.50 an hour paid to trawl through social media all day.
    It would surprise me. I thought interns did it for nothing.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2486893/Labour-MPs-hypocrisy-interns-Chuka-Umunna-employed-unpaid-staff-campaigning-fairer-salaries.html

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17767389
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited February 2015

    felix said:

    It's great to watch the Luvvies on here squirming about tax avoidance/evasion - and all because Ed Miliband told an Italian living in Monaco he should pay tax in the UK!

    I dont think he did do you?

    He was referring to Boots not the Billionaire from Monaco who says he was misquoted, wasn't he?
    Spin away.

    'The boss of High Street retailer Boots "ought to pay his taxes" rather than "trying to lecture us about what we should be doing in this country", Labour leader Ed Miliband has said.'

    and

    "It turns out that the chairman of Boots lives in Monaco and is actually avoiding his taxes," he said.

    bonus quote

    "I don't think people in Britain are going to take kindly to being lectured by someone who is avoiding his taxes on how they should be voting in the UK general election."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31089663
    See my next post I was wrong but still vote winner for Lab rather than the party that will defend Boots AND its Billionaire tax avoider methinks
    What taxes do you claim he is avoiding as a resident of Monaco?
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Roger said:

    Moderator

    "Socrates and others - If you're going to talk about Ed Miliband's tax affairs we're going to insist on a link from a reputable site to back up your assertions."

    I think I find Socrates less tawdry when he follows his paedophile obsessions but it's a close run thing

    Is that because it reminds you of the fact you are a tax avoider?
This discussion has been closed.