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When will Rachel Reeves cease to be Chancellor? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,718
edited September 30 in General
When will Rachel Reeves cease to be Chancellor? – politicalbetting.com

I can understand why 2026 is the favourite in this market from William Hill. If as expected Labour are utterly banjaxed in next year’s local and devolved elections there will a clamour for changes to be made by Starmer and sacrificing your Chancellor might be an option.

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Comments

  • eekeek Posts: 31,457
    How long has a PM lasted after removing his / her chancellor.

    On that basis I would be going for when SKS goes...
  • Reeves? Tied to Starmer. She'll go next summer when he does.
  • Fpt.

    The 'highlights' of the senile rant. The one truthful thing is him saying 'this is based on what I feel'.

    https://x.com/mermaidmamamags/status/1970296171437699498
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,463
    eek said:

    How long has a PM lasted after removing his / her chancellor.

    On that basis I would be going for when SKS goes...

    Major managed four years.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,202
    edited September 23
    eek said:

    How long has a PM lasted after removing his / her chancellor.

    On that basis I would be going for when SKS goes...

    Yes, SKS isn’t giving off the vibes of someone long for Number 10, right now.

    I suspect they’ll go together, and 2027 feels about right to me. It is possible Reeves might exit a little earlier, if Starmer tries to ditch her to save himself, but I think they’ll be close to each other’s respective departures in any event.

    If Starmer had more power and political capital he could try and sack her in 2026 and continue, but I’m not convinced he does.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,148
    edited September 23
    eek said:

    How long has a PM lasted after removing his / her chancellor.

    On that basis I would be going for when SKS goes...

    John Major lasted four years after sacking his Chancellor.

    Liz Truss lasted days after sacking her Chancellor.

    Boris Johnson lasted two and a half years after sacking his Chancellor.

    Nigel Lawson is a grey area as technically he wasn't sacked but was more constructive dismissal.
  • FPT
    Nigelb said:

    Whether this stands up in court is a slightly open question, but given the right wing Supreme Court majority very rarely pushes back on even the most outrageous claims of executive power, I wouldn't bet against it.

    Effectively an enabling law for tyranny, given that ANTIFA isn't any kind of organised thing, or even one thing, so can be extremely broadly defined - and support for it even more so.

    Trump’s EO designating ANTIFA as a domestic terrorist org is worded so that anyone protesting ICE agents, filming or asking them for ID, or informing people of their rights, can be charged as a domestic terrorist.
    https://x.com/DarrigoMelanie/status/1970286732362018842

    Yep, for those in denial about Trump's fascism we have had plenty of evidence this week. Remember how Trump declared that he hates his opponents? His Big Opponent is now an idea.

    The playbook is now obvious. Battling ANTIFA will enable him to insert troops into democrat cities - he hates his opponents remember - to provoke protests and violence to excuse sending troops into more cities.

    Worse is that ANTIFA will be hard to find. Even after they arrest ANTIFA mouthpieces like Kimmel they will say the terror is everywhere, threatening the republic.

    Yep, there goes the midterms. Can't hold elections when some of the states organising the elections are riddled with ANTIFA.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,463

    eek said:

    How long has a PM lasted after removing his / her chancellor.

    On that basis I would be going for when SKS goes...

    John Major lasted four years after sacking his Chancellor.

    Liz Truss lasted days after sacking her Chancellor.

    Boris Johnson lasted two and a half years after sacking his Chancellor.

    Nigel Lawson is a grey area as technically he wasn't sacked but was more constructive dismissal.
    Wasn’t that technically also true of Sajid Javid?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,326
    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,835
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    How long has a PM lasted after removing his / her chancellor.

    On that basis I would be going for when SKS goes...

    Major managed four years.
    And it will probably take a single definable event like the ERM debacle to shift Reeves in the near future (as opposed to closer to the general election).

    Major was a rather more accomplished politician than Starmer, who has a far larger majority, but probably a similar percentage of (what he will see as) "bastards".
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,863
    edited September 23
    Four things save Reeves:

    - there's no obvious alternative who would do any better
    - because of Labour's sexism, it's much harder to sack a woman than a man, especially after Rayner self-destructed
    - even Starmer, who has the typical lawyer's complete lack of understanding of economics, probably realises that replacing the Chancellor won't magically improve the economy
    - replacing her would reflect even worse on Starmer's judgement than the Mandelson catastrophe

    So I think there are probably more sackable people if Starmer wants to divert attention from his own failures.
  • ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    How long has a PM lasted after removing his / her chancellor.

    On that basis I would be going for when SKS goes...

    John Major lasted four years after sacking his Chancellor.

    Liz Truss lasted days after sacking her Chancellor.

    Boris Johnson lasted two and a half years after sacking his Chancellor.

    Nigel Lawson is a grey area as technically he wasn't sacked but was more constructive dismissal.
    Wasn’t that technically also true of Sajid Javid?
    Yes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,463
    Attlee also managed just under four years after firing Dalton. However, he did have the advantage that even Dalton’s followers knew he was an utter twat.
  • Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,148
    edited September 23
    ydoethur said:

    Attlee also managed just under four years after firing Dalton. However, he did have the advantage that even Dalton’s followers knew he was an utter twat.

    Dalton also had one of best ministerial jobs/titles ever, and one we should revive.

    Minister of Economic Warfare.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,420
    @marisakabas.bsky.social‬

    SCOOP — Part of the reason Disney/ABC may have rushed to sort things out with Kimmel is because tomorrow they have a planned price increase for Disney+ streaming, a Disney source tells me. With subscriptions hemorrhaging since last week, they couldn’t risk losing more users with this announcement.
  • Scott_xP said:

    @marisakabas.bsky.social‬

    SCOOP — Part of the reason Disney/ABC may have rushed to sort things out with Kimmel is because tomorrow they have a planned price increase for Disney+ streaming, a Disney source tells me. With subscriptions hemorrhaging since last week, they couldn’t risk losing more users with this announcement.

    I believe the relevant acronym is FAFO
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,177
    edited September 23
    Someone posted this yesterday - Erika Kirk’s eulogy. It’s well worth 3 minutes of everyone’s time.

    https://xcancel.com/__Injaneb96/status/1969913302454309147#m
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,691

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    Whether this stands up in court is a slightly open question, but given the right wing Supreme Court majority very rarely pushes back on even the most outrageous claims of executive power, I wouldn't bet against it.

    Effectively an enabling law for tyranny, given that ANTIFA isn't any kind of organised thing, or even one thing, so can be extremely broadly defined - and support for it even more so.

    Trump’s EO designating ANTIFA as a domestic terrorist org is worded so that anyone protesting ICE agents, filming or asking them for ID, or informing people of their rights, can be charged as a domestic terrorist.
    https://x.com/DarrigoMelanie/status/1970286732362018842

    Yep, for those in denial about Trump's fascism we have had plenty of evidence this week. Remember how Trump declared that he hates his opponents? His Big Opponent is now an idea.

    The playbook is now obvious. Battling ANTIFA will enable him to insert troops into democrat cities - he hates his opponents remember - to provoke protests and violence to excuse sending troops into more cities.

    Worse is that ANTIFA will be hard to find. Even after they arrest ANTIFA mouthpieces like Kimmel they will say the terror is everywhere, threatening the republic.

    Yep, there goes the midterms. Can't hold elections when some of the states organising the elections are riddled with ANTIFA.
    The Trump government seem to be ticking off more of Eco's definition of fascism. They're not there yet (and anyway, fascism is a somewhat slippery ideology to define), but they're getting there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#Umberto_Eco
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,068
    Not this year. Next year, maybe, if they can’t get on top of their budgetary/economic struggles.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,334

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    Whether this stands up in court is a slightly open question, but given the right wing Supreme Court majority very rarely pushes back on even the most outrageous claims of executive power, I wouldn't bet against it.

    Effectively an enabling law for tyranny, given that ANTIFA isn't any kind of organised thing, or even one thing, so can be extremely broadly defined - and support for it even more so.

    Trump’s EO designating ANTIFA as a domestic terrorist org is worded so that anyone protesting ICE agents, filming or asking them for ID, or informing people of their rights, can be charged as a domestic terrorist.
    https://x.com/DarrigoMelanie/status/1970286732362018842

    Yep, for those in denial about Trump's fascism we have had plenty of evidence this week. Remember how Trump declared that he hates his opponents? His Big Opponent is now an idea.

    The playbook is now obvious. Battling ANTIFA will enable him to insert troops into democrat cities - he hates his opponents remember - to provoke protests and violence to excuse sending troops into more cities.

    Worse is that ANTIFA will be hard to find. Even after they arrest ANTIFA mouthpieces like Kimmel they will say the terror is everywhere, threatening the republic.

    Yep, there goes the midterms. Can't hold elections when some of the states organising the elections are riddled with ANTIFA.
    The Trump government seem to be ticking off more of Eco's definition of fascism. They're not there yet (and anyway, fascism is a somewhat slippery ideology to define), but they're getting there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#Umberto_Eco
    Disagreement is treason.

  • FPT

    Nigelb said:

    Whether this stands up in court is a slightly open question, but given the right wing Supreme Court majority very rarely pushes back on even the most outrageous claims of executive power, I wouldn't bet against it.

    Effectively an enabling law for tyranny, given that ANTIFA isn't any kind of organised thing, or even one thing, so can be extremely broadly defined - and support for it even more so.

    Trump’s EO designating ANTIFA as a domestic terrorist org is worded so that anyone protesting ICE agents, filming or asking them for ID, or informing people of their rights, can be charged as a domestic terrorist.
    https://x.com/DarrigoMelanie/status/1970286732362018842

    Yep, for those in denial about Trump's fascism we have had plenty of evidence this week. Remember how Trump declared that he hates his opponents? His Big Opponent is now an idea.

    The playbook is now obvious. Battling ANTIFA will enable him to insert troops into democrat cities - he hates his opponents remember - to provoke protests and violence to excuse sending troops into more cities.

    Worse is that ANTIFA will be hard to find. Even after they arrest ANTIFA mouthpieces like Kimmel they will say the terror is everywhere, threatening the republic.

    Yep, there goes the midterms. Can't hold elections when some of the states organising the elections are riddled with ANTIFA.
    The Trump government seem to be ticking off more of Eco's definition of fascism. They're not there yet (and anyway, fascism is a somewhat slippery ideology to define), but they're getting there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#Umberto_Eco
    Yep. Fascism is a journey. You don't jump straight to the final solution.

    As for Trump, I listen to his former military staffers. When his former Chief of Staff and former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs describe him in detail as a fascist, I listen. Senior military men, working directly with him, labelling in detail why he is a literal fascist.

    And that was Trump 1. Trump 2? How much more blatant does he need to get before people accept he is a fascist? This ANTIFA thing is perfect. A mind virus, running unchecked through America. Which has to be destroyed because we hate them. Unleash the powers of the state, suspend the law and the constitution and go after them. Whilst ramming plastic patriotism down everyone's throats so that unless you sing from their hymn sheet you must be ANTIFA and you know what happens to them...

    This is it. This is *it*. Now watch it unfold on our tellyboxes.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,523
    edited September 23

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    £150bn of US AI investment announced last week and £2bn for the new Gatwick runway yesterday. Not sure its true to say that investment has dried up. The lack of new build housing is seriously disappointing though.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,551
    DavidL said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    £150bn of US AI investment announced last week and £2bn for the new Gatwick runway yesterday. Not sure its true to say that investment has dried up. The lack of new build housing is seriously disappointing though.
    And don't forget all the investment in CCS.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,457
    DavidL said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    £150bn of US AI investment announced last week and £2bn for the new Gatwick runway yesterday. Not sure its true to say that investment has dried up. The lack of new build housing is seriously disappointing though.
    AI has major energy requirements to the extent I can see the US being happy to dump those on us.

    So where is the energy capacity coming from to supply that £150bn of power hungry GPUs
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,835
    A reminder that Acosta is now Trump's Deputy Attorney General.

    I tried a federal sex trafficking case with 1 victim. Trafficker got 20 yrs in jail.

    Acosta knew of 50+ Epstein victims. Federal charges carry 15 yrs - life, but Acosta cut a deal: state case and 16 months in jail.

    https://x.com/KGreenberg_/status/1970157084340785538
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,523
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    £150bn of US AI investment announced last week and £2bn for the new Gatwick runway yesterday. Not sure its true to say that investment has dried up. The lack of new build housing is seriously disappointing though.
    AI has major energy requirements to the extent I can see the US being happy to dump those on us.

    So where is the energy capacity coming from to supply that £150bn of power hungry GPUs
    Well, a lot more investment obviously. We have even more offshore wind coming on line over the next few months but we will need a lot more yet.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,891

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    This clearly predates Trump's attempt on behalf of Putin to destabilise the economy of the West.

    This lack of investment of which you write. Was there some sort of seminal negative event circa ten years ago that you could pinpoint as the catalyst for international business decoupling from the UK?
  • Getting a 503 response from https://vf.politicalbetting.com/ (ie it's down).
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,551
    Need more power for data centres?

    New build CCGTs with CCS.

    Need more gas to pwer them?

    Ban exploration and development in the North Sea.
  • Scott_xP said:

    @marisakabas.bsky.social‬

    SCOOP — Part of the reason Disney/ABC may have rushed to sort things out with Kimmel is because tomorrow they have a planned price increase for Disney+ streaming, a Disney source tells me. With subscriptions hemorrhaging since last week, they couldn’t risk losing more users with this announcement.

    There is only one Kirk we should aspire to be like, and it's not Charlie.


  • Getting a 503 response from https://vf.politicalbetting.com/ (ie it's down).

    And with one bound...
  • Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    This clearly predates Trump's attempt on behalf of Putin to destabilise the economy of the West.

    This lack of investment of which you write. Was there some sort of seminal negative event circa ten years ago that you could pinpoint as the catalyst for international business decoupling from the UK?
    I think there might have been something now that you mention it...

    I would go back further though. We have never recovered from the 2008 crash when you look at things like wages.
  • boulay said:

    WTF is the Today programme doing leading with the Trump balls about paracetamol and vaccines?

    It’s effectively a domestic US story, it’s not a UK story or a global story. They aren’t just saying he’s been an idiot then listing all his weird conspiracy theories/bad medical knowledge which will just give extra platforms and arguments to the idiot anti-science mob here.

    The fact that they are giving it such massive coverage will allow the crazies to push these crazy ideas more due to the profile as now more people will half hear arguments in the background without deep counter arguments from people who actually know what they are talking about.

    Someone senior at the BBC needs to explain why they are running this as top story.

    Good morning

    As far as I can tell Trump's dangerous ramblings were the leading item across all the media

    Trump and Farage are dominating the media and hopefully someday voters will realise they are dangerous and nasty leaders creating division and dismay

    The world would be a far better place without Trump, Farage, Putin, Netanyahu, Hamas and many others with malign intent

    I fear that normality will not return in my lifetime
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,835
    .

    Need more power for data centres?

    New build CCGTs with CCS.

    Need more gas to pwer them?

    Ban exploration and development in the North Sea.

    I know it's traditional to talk your own book on PB.
    But doubling the cost of electricity generated in gas fired power stations isn't a great use of public money.
  • Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    This clearly predates Trump's attempt on behalf of Putin to destabilise the economy of the West.

    This lack of investment of which you write. Was there some sort of seminal negative event circa ten years ago that you could pinpoint as the catalyst for international business decoupling from the UK?
    I think there might have been something now that you mention it...

    I would go back further though. We have never recovered from the 2008 crash when you look at things like wages.
    2008, brexit, covid, war in Ukraine, Trump, Gaza all contribute to where we find ourselves today
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,891

    boulay said:

    WTF is the Today programme doing leading with the Trump balls about paracetamol and vaccines?

    It’s effectively a domestic US story, it’s not a UK story or a global story. They aren’t just saying he’s been an idiot then listing all his weird conspiracy theories/bad medical knowledge which will just give extra platforms and arguments to the idiot anti-science mob here.

    The fact that they are giving it such massive coverage will allow the crazies to push these crazy ideas more due to the profile as now more people will half hear arguments in the background without deep counter arguments from people who actually know what they are talking about.

    Someone senior at the BBC needs to explain why they are running this as top story.

    Good morning

    As far as I can tell Trump's dangerous ramblings were the leading item across all the media

    Trump and Farage are dominating the media and hopefully someday voters will realise they are dangerous and nasty leaders creating division and dismay

    The world would be a far better place without Trump, Farage, Putin, Netanyahu, Hamas and many others with malign intent

    I fear that normality will not return in my lifetime
    At times like these, one really wishes Alexander Johnson was indeed "World King".
  • boulay said:

    WTF is the Today programme doing leading with the Trump balls about paracetamol and vaccines?

    It’s effectively a domestic US story, it’s not a UK story or a global story. They aren’t just saying he’s been an idiot then listing all his weird conspiracy theories/bad medical knowledge which will just give extra platforms and arguments to the idiot anti-science mob here.

    The fact that they are giving it such massive coverage will allow the crazies to push these crazy ideas more due to the profile as now more people will half hear arguments in the background without deep counter arguments from people who actually know what they are talking about.

    Someone senior at the BBC needs to explain why they are running this as top story.

    Good morning

    As far as I can tell Trump's dangerous ramblings were the leading item across all the media

    Trump and Farage are dominating the media and hopefully someday voters will realise they are dangerous and nasty leaders creating division and dismay

    The world would be a far better place without Trump, Farage, Putin, Netanyahu, Hamas and many others with malign intent

    I fear that normality will not return in my lifetime
    A relevant insight (which probably applies to Reeves as well), from one of Romford's finest sons;

    Theory: much of this is explained by journalism being quite a young business (crap money at lower levels, lot of bottlenecks, people age out). A lot of political journalists barely remember Westminster before things went nuts c2014. Not enough of the lobby grew up in peacetime.

    https://bsky.app/profile/jonnelledge.bsky.social/post/3lzifudmblc2v

    In terms of Reeves, there is still a fair bit of political-economic sewage to wade through- I doubt that any Chancellor could look good under these circumstances. No point on replacing her until 2027 or so.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,835

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    This clearly predates Trump's attempt on behalf of Putin to destabilise the economy of the West.

    This lack of investment of which you write. Was there some sort of seminal negative event circa ten years ago that you could pinpoint as the catalyst for international business decoupling from the UK?
    I think there might have been something now that you mention it...

    I would go back further though. We have never recovered from the 2008 crash when you look at things like wages.
    2008, brexit, covid, war in Ukraine, Trump, Gaza all contribute to where we find ourselves today
    Ed Davey, "I'm afraid Nigel Farage should be apologising for helping cause this problem in the first place"

    "Before Brexit we didn't have a small boats problem because we had 27 return agreements with European Union countries and we could return people"

    "But that's to Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and the Conservatives, we tore up those agreements when we left the European Union, and now we have this problem"..

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1970067804100366361
  • eekeek Posts: 31,457
    edited September 23
    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    £150bn of US AI investment announced last week and £2bn for the new Gatwick runway yesterday. Not sure its true to say that investment has dried up. The lack of new build housing is seriously disappointing though.
    AI has major energy requirements to the extent I can see the US being happy to dump those on us.

    So where is the energy capacity coming from to supply that £150bn of power hungry GPUs
    Well, a lot more investment obviously. We have even more offshore wind coming on line over the next few months but we will need a lot more yet.
    The power is needed 24/7 which means gas which means net zero is screwed this government hasn’t picked up on the mess they’ve created because they haven’t thought it through.

    Mind you - the Government think it’s investment - when in reality it’s the USA dumping their AI driven energy issue on us

    And note were I in the energy business wouldn’t be investing my money in providing capacity here because I suspect the demand will never actually exist - the AI models being used won’t scale the way people think
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,777
    edited September 23
    Starmer to emphasise all the pro growth decisions he has made including Gatwick's second runway

    Add in 1.5 million homes and yet all these announcements mirror Johnson's 40 new hospitals, which were announced but reality kicked in and they became a mirage

    After yesterday's Farage performance, where on earth are we going to find the labour force and expertise even without these nasty policies

    Has anyone tried to get a plumber, electrician, or builder to do a job for them, as either they are unavailable before next year or submit a ridiculous price and as an example I wanted a minor change to our bathroom at an expected cost of £1,500 and the cheapest quote was £3,200 !!!
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,281
    Nigelb said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    This clearly predates Trump's attempt on behalf of Putin to destabilise the economy of the West.

    This lack of investment of which you write. Was there some sort of seminal negative event circa ten years ago that you could pinpoint as the catalyst for international business decoupling from the UK?
    I think there might have been something now that you mention it...

    I would go back further though. We have never recovered from the 2008 crash when you look at things like wages.
    2008, brexit, covid, war in Ukraine, Trump, Gaza all contribute to where we find ourselves today
    Ed Davey, "I'm afraid Nigel Farage should be apologising for helping cause this problem in the first place"

    "Before Brexit we didn't have a small boats problem because we had 27 return agreements with European Union countries and we could return people"

    "But that's to Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and the Conservatives, we tore up those agreements when we left the European Union, and now we have this problem"..

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1970067804100366361
    Davey is a simpleton if he thinks the uk’s exit from Dublin III is the reason we are facing this problem.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,457
    Nigelb said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    This clearly predates Trump's attempt on behalf of Putin to destabilise the economy of the West.

    This lack of investment of which you write. Was there some sort of seminal negative event circa ten years ago that you could pinpoint as the catalyst for international business decoupling from the UK?
    I think there might have been something now that you mention it...

    I would go back further though. We have never recovered from the 2008 crash when you look at things like wages.
    2008, brexit, covid, war in Ukraine, Trump, Gaza all contribute to where we find ourselves today
    Ed Davey, "I'm afraid Nigel Farage should be apologising for helping cause this problem in the first place"

    "Before Brexit we didn't have a small boats problem because we had 27 return agreements with European Union countries and we could return people"

    "But that's to Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and the Conservatives, we tore up those agreements when we left the European Union, and now we have this problem"..

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1970067804100366361
    That’s not true - we had a migrants hiding in the back of lorries issue. We fixed that at Calais which meant small boats became the only solution.

    I think Ed is being very selective here
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,079
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    £150bn of US AI investment announced last week and £2bn for the new Gatwick runway yesterday. Not sure its true to say that investment has dried up. The lack of new build housing is seriously disappointing though.
    AI has major energy requirements to the extent I can see the US being happy to dump those on us.

    So where is the energy capacity coming from to supply that £150bn of power hungry GPUs
    Does AI need that energy throughout its use, or only during development? I've been wondering about mobile AI units for doing things and how they'll be powered.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,310
    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    This clearly predates Trump's attempt on behalf of Putin to destabilise the economy of the West.

    This lack of investment of which you write. Was there some sort of seminal negative event circa ten years ago that you could pinpoint as the catalyst for international business decoupling from the UK?
    I think there might have been something now that you mention it...

    I would go back further though. We have never recovered from the 2008 crash when you look at things like wages.
    2008, brexit, covid, war in Ukraine, Trump, Gaza all contribute to where we find ourselves today
    Ed Davey, "I'm afraid Nigel Farage should be apologising for helping cause this problem in the first place"

    "Before Brexit we didn't have a small boats problem because we had 27 return agreements with European Union countries and we could return people"

    "But that's to Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and the Conservatives, we tore up those agreements when we left the European Union, and now we have this problem"..

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1970067804100366361
    Davey is a simpleton if he thinks the uk’s exit from Dublin III is the reason we are facing this problem.
    TBH that sentence could have ended at the fourth word
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,179
    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    This clearly predates Trump's attempt on behalf of Putin to destabilise the economy of the West.

    This lack of investment of which you write. Was there some sort of seminal negative event circa ten years ago that you could pinpoint as the catalyst for international business decoupling from the UK?
    I think there might have been something now that you mention it...

    I would go back further though. We have never recovered from the 2008 crash when you look at things like wages.
    2008, brexit, covid, war in Ukraine, Trump, Gaza all contribute to where we find ourselves today
    Ed Davey, "I'm afraid Nigel Farage should be apologising for helping cause this problem in the first place"

    "Before Brexit we didn't have a small boats problem because we had 27 return agreements with European Union countries and we could return people"

    "But that's to Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and the Conservatives, we tore up those agreements when we left the European Union, and now we have this problem"..

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1970067804100366361
    Davey is a simpleton if he thinks the uk’s exit from Dublin III is the reason we are facing this problem.
    You say that but GB News did a load of reporting from Calais and one of the migrants gave literally that as his reason for wanting to get to the UK
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,835

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    Whether this stands up in court is a slightly open question, but given the right wing Supreme Court majority very rarely pushes back on even the most outrageous claims of executive power, I wouldn't bet against it.

    Effectively an enabling law for tyranny, given that ANTIFA isn't any kind of organised thing, or even one thing, so can be extremely broadly defined - and support for it even more so.

    Trump’s EO designating ANTIFA as a domestic terrorist org is worded so that anyone protesting ICE agents, filming or asking them for ID, or informing people of their rights, can be charged as a domestic terrorist.
    https://x.com/DarrigoMelanie/status/1970286732362018842

    Yep, for those in denial about Trump's fascism we have had plenty of evidence this week. Remember how Trump declared that he hates his opponents? His Big Opponent is now an idea.

    The playbook is now obvious. Battling ANTIFA will enable him to insert troops into democrat cities - he hates his opponents remember - to provoke protests and violence to excuse sending troops into more cities.

    Worse is that ANTIFA will be hard to find. Even after they arrest ANTIFA mouthpieces like Kimmel they will say the terror is everywhere, threatening the republic.

    Yep, there goes the midterms. Can't hold elections when some of the states organising the elections are riddled with ANTIFA.
    Having mentioned the SC tendency to approve every expansion if executive power, here's today's.

    The Supreme Court allows Trump to fire a Federal Trade Commission member — breaking nearly a century of precedent.
    https://x.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1970207521332949284
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,281

    Starmer to emphasise all the pro growth decisions he has made including Gatwick's second runway

    Add in 1.5 million homes and yet all these announcements mirror Johnson's 40 new hospitals, which were announced but reality kicked in and they became a mirage

    After yesterday's Farage performance, where on earth are we going to find the labour force and expertise even without these nasty policies

    Has anyone tried to get a plumber, electrician, or builder to do a job for them, as either they are unavailable before next year or submit a ridiculous price and as an example I wanted a minor change to our bathroom at an expected cost of £1,500 and the cheapest quote was £3,200 !!!

    We are approaching a crisis of human economic purpose, with mass under / unemployment due to displacement by automation.

    I see it as an imperative to get ahead of this by reducing the low skilled working age population now. I am thrilled that we have a mainstream party that appears to realise the urgency of the moment.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,278
    AnneJGP said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    £150bn of US AI investment announced last week and £2bn for the new Gatwick runway yesterday. Not sure its true to say that investment has dried up. The lack of new build housing is seriously disappointing though.
    AI has major energy requirements to the extent I can see the US being happy to dump those on us.

    So where is the energy capacity coming from to supply that £150bn of power hungry GPUs
    Does AI need that energy throughout its use, or only during development? I've been wondering about mobile AI units for doing things and how they'll be powered.
    They use a *lot* of power, all the time.

    The Americans are seriously looking to recommission old nuclear power stations and build the data centres next to them, that’s how much power we’re talking about.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,551
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Need more power for data centres?

    New build CCGTs with CCS.

    Need more gas to pwer them?

    Ban exploration and development in the North Sea.

    I know it's traditional to talk your own book on PB.
    But doubling the cost of electricity generated in gas fired power stations isn't a great use of public money.
    I think we are partially on the same page. I wouldn't be choosing CCGT plants as the best place to apply CO2 capture. Much better to add it to the back end of plants with baseload operation, such as EfW or cement.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,835
    moonshine said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    This clearly predates Trump's attempt on behalf of Putin to destabilise the economy of the West.

    This lack of investment of which you write. Was there some sort of seminal negative event circa ten years ago that you could pinpoint as the catalyst for international business decoupling from the UK?
    I think there might have been something now that you mention it...

    I would go back further though. We have never recovered from the 2008 crash when you look at things like wages.
    2008, brexit, covid, war in Ukraine, Trump, Gaza all contribute to where we find ourselves today
    Ed Davey, "I'm afraid Nigel Farage should be apologising for helping cause this problem in the first place"

    "Before Brexit we didn't have a small boats problem because we had 27 return agreements with European Union countries and we could return people"

    "But that's to Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and the Conservatives, we tore up those agreements when we left the European Union, and now we have this problem"..

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1970067804100366361
    Davey is a simpleton if he thinks the uk’s exit from Dublin III is the reason we are facing this problem.
    Put that on a bus.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,523
    Nigelb said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    This clearly predates Trump's attempt on behalf of Putin to destabilise the economy of the West.

    This lack of investment of which you write. Was there some sort of seminal negative event circa ten years ago that you could pinpoint as the catalyst for international business decoupling from the UK?
    I think there might have been something now that you mention it...

    I would go back further though. We have never recovered from the 2008 crash when you look at things like wages.
    2008, brexit, covid, war in Ukraine, Trump, Gaza all contribute to where we find ourselves today
    Ed Davey, "I'm afraid Nigel Farage should be apologising for helping cause this problem in the first place"

    "Before Brexit we didn't have a small boats problem because we had 27 return agreements with European Union countries and we could return people"

    "But that's to Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and the Conservatives, we tore up those agreements when we left the European Union, and now we have this problem"..

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1970067804100366361
    Complete and utter nonsense. The numbers returned in terms of the Dublin Convention were derisory and falling for years prior to it ceasing to have effect: https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/444/transfers-of-asylum-seekers-from-the-uk-under-the-dublin-system#past_requests_and_transfers_under_the_dublin_system_

    Yet more dishonesty and disingenuity by a main stream party.
  • moonshine said:

    Starmer to emphasise all the pro growth decisions he has made including Gatwick's second runway

    Add in 1.5 million homes and yet all these announcements mirror Johnson's 40 new hospitals, which were announced but reality kicked in and they became a mirage

    After yesterday's Farage performance, where on earth are we going to find the labour force and expertise even without these nasty policies

    Has anyone tried to get a plumber, electrician, or builder to do a job for them, as either they are unavailable before next year or submit a ridiculous price and as an example I wanted a minor change to our bathroom at an expected cost of £1,500 and the cheapest quote was £3,200 !!!

    We are approaching a crisis of human economic purpose, with mass under / unemployment due to displacement by automation.

    I see it as an imperative to get ahead of this by reducing the low skilled working age population now. I am thrilled that we have a mainstream party that appears to realise the urgency of the moment.
    Mass automation is decades away, and Farage's nasty and divisive policy creating fear and dismay in millions of people, and their families, who have made their homes here is sick
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,463
    moonshine said:

    Starmer to emphasise all the pro growth decisions he has made including Gatwick's second runway

    Add in 1.5 million homes and yet all these announcements mirror Johnson's 40 new hospitals, which were announced but reality kicked in and they became a mirage

    After yesterday's Farage performance, where on earth are we going to find the labour force and expertise even without these nasty policies

    Has anyone tried to get a plumber, electrician, or builder to do a job for them, as either they are unavailable before next year or submit a ridiculous price and as an example I wanted a minor change to our bathroom at an expected cost of £1,500 and the cheapest quote was £3,200 !!!

    We are approaching a crisis of human economic purpose, with mass under / unemployment due to displacement by automation.

    I see it as an imperative to get ahead of this by reducing the low skilled working age population now. I am thrilled that we have a mainstream party that appears to realise the urgency of the moment.
    Will they implement a final solution?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,551
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    £150bn of US AI investment announced last week and £2bn for the new Gatwick runway yesterday. Not sure its true to say that investment has dried up. The lack of new build housing is seriously disappointing though.
    AI has major energy requirements to the extent I can see the US being happy to dump those on us.

    So where is the energy capacity coming from to supply that £150bn of power hungry GPUs
    Well, a lot more investment obviously. We have even more offshore wind coming on line over the next few months but we will need a lot more yet.
    The power is needed 24/7 which means gas which means net zero is screwed this government hasn’t picked up on the mess they’ve created because they haven’t thought it through.

    Mind you - the Government think it’s investment - when in reality it’s the USA dumping their AI driven energy issue on us

    And note were I in the energy business wouldn’t be investing my money in providing capacity here because I suspect the demand will never actually exist - the AI models being used won’t scale the way people think
    24/7 power is ideal for nuclear. CCGT is best suited to providing dispatchable power, making up for a shortfall in renewables or kicking in when demand is high.

    So the answer is to build a cluster of data centres around an SMR to provide their leccy.
  • Can we have an official list of all PBers who are predicting their will be no mid-term elections in the USA next year.

    I'm sure those PBers will be happy to have their foresight available for all to see.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,523

    boulay said:

    WTF is the Today programme doing leading with the Trump balls about paracetamol and vaccines?

    It’s effectively a domestic US story, it’s not a UK story or a global story. They aren’t just saying he’s been an idiot then listing all his weird conspiracy theories/bad medical knowledge which will just give extra platforms and arguments to the idiot anti-science mob here.

    The fact that they are giving it such massive coverage will allow the crazies to push these crazy ideas more due to the profile as now more people will half hear arguments in the background without deep counter arguments from people who actually know what they are talking about.

    Someone senior at the BBC needs to explain why they are running this as top story.

    Good morning

    As far as I can tell Trump's dangerous ramblings were the leading item across all the media

    Trump and Farage are dominating the media and hopefully someday voters will realise they are dangerous and nasty leaders creating division and dismay

    The world would be a far better place without Trump, Farage, Putin, Netanyahu, Hamas and many others with malign intent

    I fear that normality will not return in my lifetime
    A relevant insight (which probably applies to Reeves as well), from one of Romford's finest sons;

    Theory: much of this is explained by journalism being quite a young business (crap money at lower levels, lot of bottlenecks, people age out). A lot of political journalists barely remember Westminster before things went nuts c2014. Not enough of the lobby grew up in peacetime.

    https://bsky.app/profile/jonnelledge.bsky.social/post/3lzifudmblc2v

    In terms of Reeves, there is still a fair bit of political-economic sewage to wade through- I doubt that any Chancellor could look good under these circumstances. No point on replacing her until 2027 or so.
    Her lack of a powerbase in the party is a problem. She cannot get her own way on the simplest and smallest of issues, eg the ridiculous WFA. Of course Starmer and his woolly ineffectiveness does not help.

    More time for her in office is simply more procrastination and prevarication. Every year will see higher taxes as she tries desperately to stop borrowing from increasing (when it should be falling) as spending is uncontrolled. The longer she goes on the more damage will be done and the harder the task will be for a responsible government.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,079
    Sandpit said:

    AnneJGP said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    £150bn of US AI investment announced last week and £2bn for the new Gatwick runway yesterday. Not sure its true to say that investment has dried up. The lack of new build housing is seriously disappointing though.
    AI has major energy requirements to the extent I can see the US being happy to dump those on us.

    So where is the energy capacity coming from to supply that £150bn of power hungry GPUs
    Does AI need that energy throughout its use, or only during development? I've been wondering about mobile AI units for doing things and how they'll be powered.
    They use a *lot* of power, all the time.

    The Americans are seriously looking to recommission old nuclear power stations and build the data centres next to them, that’s how much power we’re talking about.
    So for all the immense capabilities of AI, flicking the power switch, so to speak, shuts it all down? What sort of backup batteries are involved? (Pardon my ignorance but I'm very interested.)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,551

    Can we have an official list of all PBers who are predicting their will be no mid-term elections in the USA next year.

    I'm sure those PBers will be happy to have their foresight available for all to see.

    Elections yes. Free and fair elections, not in 50 states.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,449

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    £150bn of US AI investment announced last week and £2bn for the new Gatwick runway yesterday. Not sure its true to say that investment has dried up. The lack of new build housing is seriously disappointing though.
    AI has major energy requirements to the extent I can see the US being happy to dump those on us.

    So where is the energy capacity coming from to supply that £150bn of power hungry GPUs
    Well, a lot more investment obviously. We have even more offshore wind coming on line over the next few months but we will need a lot more yet.
    The power is needed 24/7 which means gas which means net zero is screwed this government hasn’t picked up on the mess they’ve created because they haven’t thought it through.

    Mind you - the Government think it’s investment - when in reality it’s the USA dumping their AI driven energy issue on us

    And note were I in the energy business wouldn’t be investing my money in providing capacity here because I suspect the demand will never actually exist - the AI models being used won’t scale the way people think
    24/7 power is ideal for nuclear. CCGT is best suited to providing dispatchable power, making up for a shortfall in renewables or kicking in when demand is high.

    So the answer is to build a cluster of data centres around an SMR to provide their leccy.
    Are there any SMR's in 'real' production use? I don't really follow their progress. They sounded like a good idea - but not seen any real news of adoption.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,835

    Can we have an official list of all PBers who are predicting their will be no mid-term elections in the USA next year.

    I'm sure those PBers will be happy to have their foresight available for all to see.

    I don't think there are any.

    Can we have a list of PBers who are predicting Trump won't try to fix them ?
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,817
    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    Starmer to emphasise all the pro growth decisions he has made including Gatwick's second runway

    Add in 1.5 million homes and yet all these announcements mirror Johnson's 40 new hospitals, which were announced but reality kicked in and they became a mirage

    After yesterday's Farage performance, where on earth are we going to find the labour force and expertise even without these nasty policies

    Has anyone tried to get a plumber, electrician, or builder to do a job for them, as either they are unavailable before next year or submit a ridiculous price and as an example I wanted a minor change to our bathroom at an expected cost of £1,500 and the cheapest quote was £3,200 !!!

    We are approaching a crisis of human economic purpose, with mass under / unemployment due to displacement by automation.

    I see it as an imperative to get ahead of this by reducing the low skilled working age population now. I am thrilled that we have a mainstream party that appears to realise the urgency of the moment.
    Will they implement a final solution?
    The world will not end if your next pizza is delivered by bot.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,278

    Can we have an official list of all PBers who are predicting their will be no mid-term elections in the USA next year.

    I'm sure those PBers will be happy to have their foresight available for all to see.

    Can we also get a list of those who predict seriously that Donald Trump will run in 2028.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,341
    edited September 23

    Can we have an official list of all PBers who are predicting there will be no mid-term elections in the USA next year.

    I'm sure those PBers will be happy to have their foresight available for all to see.

    Elections yes. Free and fair elections, not in 50 states.
    US elections are already rife with gerrymandering and vote rigging by both sides.

    I don't doubt that electoral lawyers will continue to get richer.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,891
    ..

    Can we have an official list of all PBers who are predicting their will be no mid-term elections in the USA next year.

    I'm sure those PBers will be happy to have their foresight available for all to see.

    Of course there will be elections. Although the model might change.

    That nice Mr Putin has been remarkably successful in Russia's free and fair elections.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,278
    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    AnneJGP said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    £150bn of US AI investment announced last week and £2bn for the new Gatwick runway yesterday. Not sure its true to say that investment has dried up. The lack of new build housing is seriously disappointing though.
    AI has major energy requirements to the extent I can see the US being happy to dump those on us.

    So where is the energy capacity coming from to supply that £150bn of power hungry GPUs
    Does AI need that energy throughout its use, or only during development? I've been wondering about mobile AI units for doing things and how they'll be powered.
    They use a *lot* of power, all the time.

    The Americans are seriously looking to recommission old nuclear power stations and build the data centres next to them, that’s how much power we’re talking about.
    So for all the immense capabilities of AI, flicking the power switch, so to speak, shuts it all down? What sort of backup batteries are involved? (Pardon my ignorance but I'm very interested.)
    You have several locations around the world, each with multiple sources of power and constantly exchanging data between them.

    A power or computer failure (as opposed to a deliberate flicking of the switch) merely makes things run a little more slowly, rather than stopping completely.

    Yes it’s a lot more complicated than that in reality.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,970
    Good morning, everyone.

    A small local matter: there are proposals to build more houses (cunningly, this will be on a farmer's field prone to flooding). Access will be difficult. The 'plan', if approved, is apparently to use a certain lane for access. Said lane is deemed too small by the council for a bin lorry to go up, so the residents have to wheel their bins down to the bottom of the lane. Furthermore, reaching the field would require hacking down an ancient hedge brimming with wildlife.

    Schrodinger's Lane: too narrow for a bin lorry, easily wide enough for construction vehicles and building materials.

    [This is especially stupid as there's an existing road that leads directly to the farmer's field. Access would, however, require opening the gate.]
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,281

    moonshine said:

    Starmer to emphasise all the pro growth decisions he has made including Gatwick's second runway

    Add in 1.5 million homes and yet all these announcements mirror Johnson's 40 new hospitals, which were announced but reality kicked in and they became a mirage

    After yesterday's Farage performance, where on earth are we going to find the labour force and expertise even without these nasty policies

    Has anyone tried to get a plumber, electrician, or builder to do a job for them, as either they are unavailable before next year or submit a ridiculous price and as an example I wanted a minor change to our bathroom at an expected cost of £1,500 and the cheapest quote was £3,200 !!!

    We are approaching a crisis of human economic purpose, with mass under / unemployment due to displacement by automation.

    I see it as an imperative to get ahead of this by reducing the low skilled working age population now. I am thrilled that we have a mainstream party that appears to realise the urgency of the moment.
    Mass automation is decades away, and Farage's nasty and divisive policy creating fear and dismay in millions of people, and their families, who have made their homes here is sick
    You seem very sure of that. And I do not blame you, because we have developed to predict the future based on the past and to extrapolate linearly rather than exponentially. But you are wrong.

    A great many low skilled (and skilled) jobs are going to be destroyed very soon. What does the migrant from the Sahel do for work in the uk, when the low skilled jobs with Uber, Deliveroo, Macdonalds and Amazon have been almost entirely automated? When it comes, this is going to happen astonishingly suddenly. And the day might not be too far away.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,079
    DavidL said:

    boulay said:

    WTF is the Today programme doing leading with the Trump balls about paracetamol and vaccines?

    It’s effectively a domestic US story, it’s not a UK story or a global story. They aren’t just saying he’s been an idiot then listing all his weird conspiracy theories/bad medical knowledge which will just give extra platforms and arguments to the idiot anti-science mob here.

    The fact that they are giving it such massive coverage will allow the crazies to push these crazy ideas more due to the profile as now more people will half hear arguments in the background without deep counter arguments from people who actually know what they are talking about.

    Someone senior at the BBC needs to explain why they are running this as top story.

    Good morning

    As far as I can tell Trump's dangerous ramblings were the leading item across all the media

    Trump and Farage are dominating the media and hopefully someday voters will realise they are dangerous and nasty leaders creating division and dismay

    The world would be a far better place without Trump, Farage, Putin, Netanyahu, Hamas and many others with malign intent

    I fear that normality will not return in my lifetime
    A relevant insight (which probably applies to Reeves as well), from one of Romford's finest sons;

    Theory: much of this is explained by journalism being quite a young business (crap money at lower levels, lot of bottlenecks, people age out). A lot of political journalists barely remember Westminster before things went nuts c2014. Not enough of the lobby grew up in peacetime.

    https://bsky.app/profile/jonnelledge.bsky.social/post/3lzifudmblc2v

    In terms of Reeves, there is still a fair bit of political-economic sewage to wade through- I doubt that any Chancellor could look good under these circumstances. No point on replacing her until 2027 or so.
    Her lack of a powerbase in the party is a problem. She cannot get her own way on the simplest and smallest of issues, eg the ridiculous WFA. Of course Starmer and his woolly ineffectiveness does not help.

    More time for her in office is simply more procrastination and prevarication. Every year will see higher taxes as she tries desperately to stop borrowing from increasing (when it should be falling) as spending is uncontrolled. The longer she goes on the more damage will be done and the harder the task will be for a responsible government.
    I'd like to be able to see where a responsible government is coming from.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,281

    Good morning, everyone.

    A small local matter: there are proposals to build more houses (cunningly, this will be on a farmer's field prone to flooding). Access will be difficult. The 'plan', if approved, is apparently to use a certain lane for access. Said lane is deemed too small by the council for a bin lorry to go up, so the residents have to wheel their bins down to the bottom of the lane. Furthermore, reaching the field would require hacking down an ancient hedge brimming with wildlife.

    Schrodinger's Lane: too narrow for a bin lorry, easily wide enough for construction vehicles and building materials.

    [This is especially stupid as there's an existing road that leads directly to the farmer's field. Access would, however, require opening the gate.]

    Sorry to hear. We are losing something precious in this country with the rush to pour concrete everywhere, in the name of ever expanding the “per capita” denominator in our output calculation.
  • ..

    Can we have an official list of all PBers who are predicting their will be no mid-term elections in the USA next year.

    I'm sure those PBers will be happy to have their foresight available for all to see.

    Of course there will be elections. Although the model might change.

    That nice Mr Putin has been remarkably successful in Russia's free and fair elections.
    This. America is too advanced to simply cancel the elections. They will find ways to subvert or suspend the ones they can't win whilst holding the bright red states as proof that had the ANTIFAcrats not suspended the elections in blue states then he would have won those as well.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,200
    Good morning everyone.

    Uniting the Kingdom, this one in Sheffield. The chap currently on the ladder is a Council worker removing a flag next to a pedestrian crossing.



    Source: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=795051543273126
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,433
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Starmer to emphasise all the pro growth decisions he has made including Gatwick's second runway

    Add in 1.5 million homes and yet all these announcements mirror Johnson's 40 new hospitals, which were announced but reality kicked in and they became a mirage

    After yesterday's Farage performance, where on earth are we going to find the labour force and expertise even without these nasty policies

    Has anyone tried to get a plumber, electrician, or builder to do a job for them, as either they are unavailable before next year or submit a ridiculous price and as an example I wanted a minor change to our bathroom at an expected cost of £1,500 and the cheapest quote was £3,200 !!!

    We are approaching a crisis of human economic purpose, with mass under / unemployment due to displacement by automation.

    I see it as an imperative to get ahead of this by reducing the low skilled working age population now. I am thrilled that we have a mainstream party that appears to realise the urgency of the moment.
    Mass automation is decades away, and Farage's nasty and divisive policy creating fear and dismay in millions of people, and their families, who have made their homes here is sick
    You seem very sure of that. And I do not blame you, because we have developed to predict the future based on the past and to extrapolate linearly rather than exponentially. But you are wrong.

    A great many low skilled (and skilled) jobs are going to be destroyed very soon. What does the migrant from the Sahel do for work in the uk, when the low skilled jobs with Uber, Deliveroo, Macdonalds and Amazon have been almost entirely automated? When it comes, this is going to happen astonishingly suddenly. And the day might not be too far away.
    To what extent will this be mitigated by new jobs in areas providing this automation?
  • eekeek Posts: 31,457
    moonshine said:

    Starmer to emphasise all the pro growth decisions he has made including Gatwick's second runway

    Add in 1.5 million homes and yet all these announcements mirror Johnson's 40 new hospitals, which were announced but reality kicked in and they became a mirage

    After yesterday's Farage performance, where on earth are we going to find the labour force and expertise even without these nasty policies

    Has anyone tried to get a plumber, electrician, or builder to do a job for them, as either they are unavailable before next year or submit a ridiculous price and as an example I wanted a minor change to our bathroom at an expected cost of £1,500 and the cheapest quote was £3,200 !!!

    We are approaching a crisis of human economic purpose, with mass under / unemployment due to displacement by automation.

    I see it as an imperative to get ahead of this by reducing the low skilled working age population now. I am thrilled that we have a mainstream party that appears to realise the urgency of the moment.
    What's that got to do with lack of tradesmen and the price of them doing work.

    Got to say none of the work twin A has had done has been cheap so I'm not surprised at that the cost of some plumbing work looks very expensive probably not helped by the fact that you you think is a minor change probably isn't.

  • eekeek Posts: 31,457
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Uniting the Kingdom, this one in Sheffield. The chap currently on the ladder is a Council worker removing a flag next to a pedestrian crossing.



    Source: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=795051543273126

    That's going to be an easy one for the police to deal with. Attempted GBH as a minimum charge I would have thought...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,202
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    How long has a PM lasted after removing his / her chancellor.

    On that basis I would be going for when SKS goes...

    Major managed four years.
    Yes but he had an outstanding chancellor iirc Ken Clarke
  • eekeek Posts: 31,457
    moonshine said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    A small local matter: there are proposals to build more houses (cunningly, this will be on a farmer's field prone to flooding). Access will be difficult. The 'plan', if approved, is apparently to use a certain lane for access. Said lane is deemed too small by the council for a bin lorry to go up, so the residents have to wheel their bins down to the bottom of the lane. Furthermore, reaching the field would require hacking down an ancient hedge brimming with wildlife.

    Schrodinger's Lane: too narrow for a bin lorry, easily wide enough for construction vehicles and building materials.

    [This is especially stupid as there's an existing road that leads directly to the farmer's field. Access would, however, require opening the gate.]

    Sorry to hear. We are losing something precious in this country with the rush to pour concrete everywhere, in the name of ever expanding the “per capita” denominator in our output calculation.
    We've added 10 million to the population - those people have to live somewhere.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,433
    edited September 23

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    But who would be better?

    As far as I understand it, the internal pressure in Labour is that she isn't borrowing and spending enough.

    It's quite quite mad.
    This is why I think it is dangerous to think that Starmer and / or Reeves going will be an improvement. Best bet - sad to say - is for them to limp on and Labour lose the next election.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,463
    Foss said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    Starmer to emphasise all the pro growth decisions he has made including Gatwick's second runway

    Add in 1.5 million homes and yet all these announcements mirror Johnson's 40 new hospitals, which were announced but reality kicked in and they became a mirage

    After yesterday's Farage performance, where on earth are we going to find the labour force and expertise even without these nasty policies

    Has anyone tried to get a plumber, electrician, or builder to do a job for them, as either they are unavailable before next year or submit a ridiculous price and as an example I wanted a minor change to our bathroom at an expected cost of £1,500 and the cheapest quote was £3,200 !!!

    We are approaching a crisis of human economic purpose, with mass under / unemployment due to displacement by automation.

    I see it as an imperative to get ahead of this by reducing the low skilled working age population now. I am thrilled that we have a mainstream party that appears to realise the urgency of the moment.
    Will they implement a final solution?
    The world will not end if your next pizza is delivered by bot.
    What if it's got pineapple on it and @TSE is with me?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,409
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    £150bn of US AI investment announced last week and £2bn for the new Gatwick runway yesterday. Not sure its true to say that investment has dried up. The lack of new build housing is seriously disappointing though.
    AI has major energy requirements to the extent I can see the US being happy to dump those on us.

    So where is the energy capacity coming from to supply that £150bn of power hungry GPUs
    Well, a lot more investment obviously. We have even more offshore wind coming on line over the next few months but we will need a lot more yet.
    The power is needed 24/7 which means gas which means net zero is screwed this government hasn’t picked up on the mess they’ve created because they haven’t thought it through.

    Mind you - the Government think it’s investment - when in reality it’s the USA dumping their AI driven energy issue on us

    And note were I in the energy business wouldn’t be investing my money in providing capacity here because I suspect the demand will never actually exist - the AI models being used won’t scale the way people think
    We are pretty close to the point where

    (solar + battery) < gas

    I would have taken the following path as Chancellor - a tax incentive for delivered portable power storage*, delivered and installed in vehicles, produced in the UK. Said tax incentive would be generous, but scaled to the UK content. So sticking labels on Chinese batteries in the UK gets you 0.1% of the subsidy.

    Since we would be giving money for delivered production, this would mean spending no money upfront.

    The battery factories resulting would be ideal for manufacturing storage batteries as well. See Tesla and BYD.

    *Keep it technology agnostic
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,106
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Uniting the Kingdom, this one in Sheffield. The chap currently on the ladder is a Council worker removing a flag next to a pedestrian crossing.



    Source: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=795051543273126

    FFS, could have very easily killed or seriously injured the poor guy. Needs to be made an example of.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,891
    Sandpit said:

    Can we have an official list of all PBers who are predicting their will be no mid-term elections in the USA next year.

    I'm sure those PBers will be happy to have their foresight available for all to see.

    Can we also get a list of those who predict seriously that Donald Trump will run in 2028.
    There are a few ifs and buts, but it is not beyond the realms of possibility.

    Firstly Trump Snr. has to survive myriad health issues. Should he do so law change is required, and that is not insurmountable, particularly with compliant legislative and judicial branches of government. Also, you didn't specify Donald Trump Snr. or Jnr. And then there is always Eric, but according to Mary Trump he is the least capable of the lot.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,817
    ydoethur said:

    Foss said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    Starmer to emphasise all the pro growth decisions he has made including Gatwick's second runway

    Add in 1.5 million homes and yet all these announcements mirror Johnson's 40 new hospitals, which were announced but reality kicked in and they became a mirage

    After yesterday's Farage performance, where on earth are we going to find the labour force and expertise even without these nasty policies

    Has anyone tried to get a plumber, electrician, or builder to do a job for them, as either they are unavailable before next year or submit a ridiculous price and as an example I wanted a minor change to our bathroom at an expected cost of £1,500 and the cheapest quote was £3,200 !!!

    We are approaching a crisis of human economic purpose, with mass under / unemployment due to displacement by automation.

    I see it as an imperative to get ahead of this by reducing the low skilled working age population now. I am thrilled that we have a mainstream party that appears to realise the urgency of the moment.
    Will they implement a final solution?
    The world will not end if your next pizza is delivered by bot.
    What if it's got pineapple on it and @TSE is with me?
    They have cameras on them so... possibly something for 'You've Been Framed!'?
  • Nigelb said:

    Can we have an official list of all PBers who are predicting their will be no mid-term elections in the USA next year.

    I'm sure those PBers will be happy to have their foresight available for all to see.

    I don't think there are any.

    Can we have a list of PBers who are predicting Trump won't try to fix them ?
    Which would make him no different to other US politicians.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,226
    eek said:

    government hasn’t picked up on the mess they’ve created because they haven’t thought it through.

    Evergreen comment !
  • We actually have a special election in Arizona's 7th district taking place today:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Arizona's_7th_congressional_district_special_election

    The swing from last year might be interesting.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,409
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Uniting the Kingdom, this one in Sheffield. The chap currently on the ladder is a Council worker removing a flag next to a pedestrian crossing.



    Source: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=795051543273126

    That's going to be an easy one for the police to deal with. Attempted GBH as a minimum charge I would have thought...
    It'll be interesting if the CPS does the usual and downgrades the charge to assault or something like that. Or actually charges the crime.
  • Sandpit said:

    Can we have an official list of all PBers who are predicting their will be no mid-term elections in the USA next year.

    I'm sure those PBers will be happy to have their foresight available for all to see.

    Can we also get a list of those who predict seriously that Donald Trump will run in 2028.
    Would be good to see the existing list of those PBers who blathered on about Trump derangement syndrom, said his second coming would 'probably' be ok for the world and that he wouldn't shaft Ukraine.
  • Wedgwood was a British status symbol but now you can’t even give it away

    “No ta, love. I won’t be able to shift that,” said the bloke behind the counter at Battlesbridge Antiques Centre when I asked if he’d buy my late aunt’s 1970s Wedgwood “Clementine” dinner service. I got the same answer from all five of my local charity shops when I tried to give it away. “Those sets take up too much shelf space and they don’t sell,” shrugged the kindly woman in Barnardo’s. “Hardly anybody uses that stuff any more. It won’t go in the microwave or dishwasher will it? You could try eBay, though?”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/22/wedgwood-from-status-symbol-to-cant-give-it-away/ (£££)

    Another one for pb's interior design correspondent, aka Leon.
  • Nigelb said:

    Can we have an official list of all PBers who are predicting their will be no mid-term elections in the USA next year.

    I'm sure those PBers will be happy to have their foresight available for all to see.

    I don't think there are any.

    Can we have a list of PBers who are predicting Trump won't try to fix them ?
    Which would make him no different to other US politicians.
    Though Trump is uniquely special in that he supported a storming of the seat of national government after losing an election.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,891

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Uniting the Kingdom, this one in Sheffield. The chap currently on the ladder is a Council worker removing a flag next to a pedestrian crossing.



    Source: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=795051543273126

    That's going to be an easy one for the police to deal with. Attempted GBH as a minimum charge I would have thought...
    It'll be interesting if the CPS does the usual and downgrades the charge to assault or something like that. Or actually charges the crime.
    This has Lucy Connolly written all over it. "A patriot prosecuted for their patriotism".
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,826
    Stocky said:

    Are we going to have to wait until October or November every year of this parliament wondering how she's going to make our shit sandwich even bigger?

    The uncertainty it drives into the economy and investment for months on end is criminal. And hurts UK Plc.

    This is a key point - investment has dried up. To be fair to Reeves it isn't just her, it dried up before Labour took over. And its in every industry. It's been fascinating watching north sea industry leaders aghast at "drill baby drill" - that is the opposite of what they want. Planned, deliverable, profitable investment over a long period of time, with stable politics giving a platform they trust putting money into.

    This is crazy. The UK economy has stalled completely, and the never ending shit show cycle makes it worse.

    You're an investor. The UK has had 6 Prime Ministers and 8 Chancellors in 10 years. With wild policy swings in that time. Sometimes week to week. Why would you invest here? We need stability. Leaving Reeves in place brings stability to the ver changing cycle but in this case it is stability as the ship sinks. She needs to go.
    But who would be better?

    As far as I understand it, the internal pressure in Labour is that she isn't borrowing and spending enough.

    It's quite quite mad.
    This is why I think it is dangerous to think that Starmer and / or Reeves going will be an improvement. Best bet - sad to say - is for them to limp on and Labour lose the next election.
    And be replaced by.......?

    In spite of that, Good Morning fellow pb-ers.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,409
    Stocky said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Starmer to emphasise all the pro growth decisions he has made including Gatwick's second runway

    Add in 1.5 million homes and yet all these announcements mirror Johnson's 40 new hospitals, which were announced but reality kicked in and they became a mirage

    After yesterday's Farage performance, where on earth are we going to find the labour force and expertise even without these nasty policies

    Has anyone tried to get a plumber, electrician, or builder to do a job for them, as either they are unavailable before next year or submit a ridiculous price and as an example I wanted a minor change to our bathroom at an expected cost of £1,500 and the cheapest quote was £3,200 !!!

    We are approaching a crisis of human economic purpose, with mass under / unemployment due to displacement by automation.

    I see it as an imperative to get ahead of this by reducing the low skilled working age population now. I am thrilled that we have a mainstream party that appears to realise the urgency of the moment.
    Mass automation is decades away, and Farage's nasty and divisive policy creating fear and dismay in millions of people, and their families, who have made their homes here is sick
    You seem very sure of that. And I do not blame you, because we have developed to predict the future based on the past and to extrapolate linearly rather than exponentially. But you are wrong.

    A great many low skilled (and skilled) jobs are going to be destroyed very soon. What does the migrant from the Sahel do for work in the uk, when the low skilled jobs with Uber, Deliveroo, Macdonalds and Amazon have been almost entirely automated? When it comes, this is going to happen astonishingly suddenly. And the day might not be too far away.
    To what extent will this be mitigated by new jobs in areas providing this automation?
    The UK's addiction to cheap labour puts us in exactly the wrong place - I think of the time I saw about 8 blokes manhandling a huge glass section up a scaffold. In France, the first thing they put up on a domestic site is a mini crane.

    The fruit picking jobs will go the way of potato picking - the machines are already in real world use/trials. Delivery will either get hammered by a crackdown on illegal working and/or the automation of driving.

    Amazon is well on the way to creating dark warehouses - warehouses without lights, because the robots don't need them.

    Uber - it's their business plan to get rid of the drivers. See Waymo and others moving out from the US. There are 100% automated vehicles being tested on the UK roads, now.

    McDonalds actually plan to move staff out of the kitchen and into the front. To use the automation to increase service quality on the front end.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,409

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Uniting the Kingdom, this one in Sheffield. The chap currently on the ladder is a Council worker removing a flag next to a pedestrian crossing.



    Source: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=795051543273126

    That's going to be an easy one for the police to deal with. Attempted GBH as a minimum charge I would have thought...
    It'll be interesting if the CPS does the usual and downgrades the charge to assault or something like that. Or actually charges the crime.
    This has Lucy Connolly written all over it. "A patriot prosecuted for their patriotism".
    Nope - this is straightforward reckless endangerment. Should get a fairly hefty charge. Attempted GBH sounds about right.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,778
    FPT

    Porsche's stock tumbled by more than 7% on Monday after warning last week that delays in its electric vehicle (EV) rollout will dent the carmaker's 2025 earnings.

    Caught between electrification and its iconic petrol-powered sports cars, the German firm said it will slow its push for EVs as demand weakens. Shares of its parent Volkswagen also fell by more than 7% on the same day after saying it will spend billions to overhaul Porsche's line-up of vehicles.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdr6z6ryxv3o

    This is classic Innovator's Dilemma stuff. The incumbents have great engineers, they know the new thing is coming, and they know how to make the new thing. But all the short-term incentives of their management are to sell better versions of the old thing to their best customers at higher margins. 10 or 15 years down the road they'll give up making cars and sell the brand to a company that wasn't cursed with the ability to make awesome petrol cars.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,677
    Trump latest EO designating AnitFa as terrorists, is a good example of Trump's honesty, clarity of purpose and truth.

    As he is being a fascist, anyone opposing his actions is AntiFa and by dint of the legislation a terrorist.

    Trips to Guantanamo available and triples all round.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,409

    Wedgwood was a British status symbol but now you can’t even give it away

    “No ta, love. I won’t be able to shift that,” said the bloke behind the counter at Battlesbridge Antiques Centre when I asked if he’d buy my late aunt’s 1970s Wedgwood “Clementine” dinner service. I got the same answer from all five of my local charity shops when I tried to give it away. “Those sets take up too much shelf space and they don’t sell,” shrugged the kindly woman in Barnardo’s. “Hardly anybody uses that stuff any more. It won’t go in the microwave or dishwasher will it? You could try eBay, though?”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/22/wedgwood-from-status-symbol-to-cant-give-it-away/ (£££)

    Another one for pb's interior design correspondent, aka Leon.

    It's variation of why people nailed hardboard across Edwardian fireplaces in the 60s and 70s. Not fashionable.
This discussion has been closed.