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The Danny Kruger effect – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,695
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charlie Kirk’s widow Erika, speaking at his memorial yesterday.

    https://x.com/tpusa/status/1969944725454192767

    My husband, Charlie. He wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life. That young man. That young man on the cross. Our Savior said, "Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do." That man. That young man. I forgive him. I forgive him because it was what Christ did in his. What Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love and always love.

    Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us.

    Now do the rest of the rally, paying particular attention to Stephen Miller.

    I though PBers were being a bit previous, referencing Horst Wessel prior to the rally.
    After Miller's rant, it now seems quite justified.
    Here's the entire speech.
    https://x.com/Memphissippi6/status/1969865121754394842
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,247
    Leon said:

    ..

    Leon said:

    I just watched this clip of Erika Kirk’s eulogy for her husband

    Wow. WOW WOW WOW

    https://x.com/__injaneb96/status/1969913302454309147?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Probably the most powerful example of speech-making I’ve seen this decade. Deeply moving. Made me stop and think. Watch it

    Did it make you stop and think who is the hate-filled, orange buffoon that came after her?
    Yes, of course. The contrast is stark



    Trump thinks forgiveness is a sign of weakness.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,195

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charlie Kirk’s widow Erika, speaking at his memorial yesterday.

    https://x.com/tpusa/status/1969944725454192767

    My husband, Charlie. He wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life. That young man. That young man on the cross. Our Savior said, "Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do." That man. That young man. I forgive him. I forgive him because it was what Christ did in his. What Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love and always love.

    Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us.

    Its a rather a self-righteous, hypocritical love though isn't it, given that according to their theology they believe most of their persecutors are destined for eternal torment in hell.
    I’m not sure I would have had it in me, at a memorial service for a loved one brutally murdered in public for his views, to espouse feelings of forgiveness towards the killer.

    Especially not in a stadium full of people including the President and most of the government.

    Of course it’s the right thing to say, but it takes a very special person to say the right thing in the aftermath of something so shocking.

    The court of law obviously takes a different view to the court of God, and this young man is going to spend the rest of his life in prison.
    Unless the 2nd Trump Reich gets its way. Hate your enemy then kill him, the 11th Commandment.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/tyler-robinson-chares-death-penalty-1.7635751

    I think most on PB are against the death penalty. However the person who murdered Kirk did so knowing that the death penalty would be a possibility if caught and found guilty. I don't particularly think this is one to lay at the altar of MAGA.
    The death penalty comments came from the governor of Utah, where the killing happened.

    IIRC the family of the victim has a say in whether or not the death penalty is actually sought by prosecutors.
  • Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charlie Kirk’s widow Erika, speaking at his memorial yesterday.

    https://x.com/tpusa/status/1969944725454192767

    My husband, Charlie. He wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life. That young man. That young man on the cross. Our Savior said, "Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do." That man. That young man. I forgive him. I forgive him because it was what Christ did in his. What Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love and always love.

    Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us.

    Its a rather a self-righteous, hypocritical love though isn't it, given that according to their theology they believe most of their persecutors are destined for eternal torment in hell.
    No, I get the impression (FWIW) that she's genuine, though I have a very different world view.
    The rest of the event was... somewhat different.
    I'm sure she was genuine and she believes all the 'love thy enemy' and 'salvation through Christ' evangelism.

    But that evangelism also believes that those who haven't turned to Jesus are destined for eternal torment.

    So her husband's killer gets a place in heaven if he 'discovers Jesus' while kind, moral, helpful people go to hell merely because they have the wrong or no religion.

    I'm not an admirer of 'salvationist' beliefs.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,784

    I am rather more interested in other types of defection - SLAB to SNP, Welsh Lab to Plaid, Wet Tories to the Lib Dems, a revised form of Change UK etc. There are lots of possible permutaions if and when things start to get a bit hairy for both Conservative and Labour backbenchers/careerists. It doesn't have to be just to Reform and Jezbollah.

    I want another SNP to Tory defection.
    They certainly seem kinky enough to make the switch.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,634
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Judging by her comments last night Erika Trump is a genuine Christian, Trump is mainly Christian for show for his base as we expected based on his comments.

    'He did not hate his opponents. He wanted the best for them,' Trump said of Kirk.

    'That's where I disagreed with Charlie. I hate my opponent, and I don't want the best for them.

    'I'm sorry. I am sorry, Erika, but now Erika can talk to me, and the whole group, and maybe they can convince me that that's not right, but I can't stand my opponent.'

    Moments before Trump's admission, Erika had stunned the crowd by publicly offering forgiveness to her husband's killer.

    'He [Charlie] wanted to save young men just like the one who took his life,' Erika said, sparking roars from the crowd and a standing ovation.

    'That man, that young man, I forgive him.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15121073/trump-charlie-kirk-widow-erika-forgive-assassin.html

    Trump hasn't got a Christian bone in his body. And as for the Ten Commandments, he has never met one of them.
    Oh, I think he has.
    And trampled them underfoot.
    Would those be bone spurs? Like Schrodinger's Cat, they exist or possibly don't.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,298
    Leon said:

    'The UK's now in a peculiar position of recognising Palestine, which barely functions as a political entity, yet we do not extend recognition to Taiwan or Somaliland, both of which have governments, legislatures and electoral systems, and are actually operative polities.'

    https://x.com/EliotWilson2/status/1969915565507555468

    Starmer and Labour are in danger of falling into the same trap as Kemi and also the LibDems, of unserious, gesture politics.
    Here’s that new recognised Hamas state live streaming roadside executions in Gaza

    https://x.com/jonsac/status/1969817523324322272?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Well done, Sir Kier
    I don't think we recognised Hamas-ruled Gaza, rather the PNA ruled West Bank and Gaza combined entity, Gaza effectively being in a state of revolt
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,664
    eek said:

    Roger said:

    About as close as Alastair Campbell will ever get to complimenting Nigel Farage…
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hteDhCJWIf8

    45 seconds of TRiP clip most interesting for the throwaway criticism of government ministers.

    An interesting conspiracy theory on the clip after the Alastair Campbell one........

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VYPxN5EbuCE
    I don't buy the full conspiracy but yes, Gaza is one of the issues, and Epstein another, on which the MAGA support ship is starting to founder. Some of the ICE raids too. It is interesting that Americans can applaud Trump for blocking illegal immigration while not wanting commando raids on shopkeepers with funny accents. (This may be a lesson for Reform too, where they are just starting to talk about deporting legal immigrants. People have an innate sense of fairness.)
    It’s not fairness, people dislike the immigrants they don’t know but will protect those they know (even vaguely)
    ICE are indiscriminately taking people they think might be illegal immigrants off the street and have deported documented US citizens. People are starting to suspect that it has more to do with physical characteristics than documentation.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,325
    edited September 22
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charlie Kirk’s widow Erika, speaking at his memorial yesterday.

    https://x.com/tpusa/status/1969944725454192767

    My husband, Charlie. He wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life. That young man. That young man on the cross. Our Savior said, "Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do." That man. That young man. I forgive him. I forgive him because it was what Christ did in his. What Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love and always love.

    Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us.

    Its a rather a self-righteous, hypocritical love though isn't it, given that according to their theology they believe most of their persecutors are destined for eternal torment in hell.
    I’m not sure I would have had it in me, at a memorial service for a loved one brutally murdered in public for his views, to espouse feelings of forgiveness towards the killer.

    Especially not in a stadium full of people including the President and most of the government.

    Of course it’s the right thing to say, but it takes a very special person to say the right thing in the aftermath of something so shocking.

    The court of law obviously takes a different view to the court of God, and this young man is going to spend the rest of his life in prison.
    In the theology of evangelic Christians that would be spend the rest of his earthly life in prison.

    That theology effectively views human life as a mere examination for the eternal life to come.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,301
    eek said:

    Roger said:

    About as close as Alastair Campbell will ever get to complimenting Nigel Farage…
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hteDhCJWIf8

    45 seconds of TRiP clip most interesting for the throwaway criticism of government ministers.

    An interesting conspiracy theory on the clip after the Alastair Campbell one........

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VYPxN5EbuCE
    I don't buy the full conspiracy but yes, Gaza is one of the issues, and Epstein another, on which the MAGA support ship is starting to founder. Some of the ICE raids too. It is interesting that Americans can applaud Trump for blocking illegal immigration while not wanting commando raids on shopkeepers with funny accents. (This may be a lesson for Reform too, where they are just starting to talk about deporting legal immigrants. People have an innate sense of fairness.)
    It’s not fairness, people dislike the immigrants they don’t know but will protect those they know (even vaguely)
    Yes. My immigrant friends have lots of stories of people moaning about immigrants to them, but then qualifying it with, "but not you, you're alright."

    The bureaucracy obviously doesn't make such distinctions.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,798

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charlie Kirk’s widow Erika, speaking at his memorial yesterday.

    https://x.com/tpusa/status/1969944725454192767

    My husband, Charlie. He wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life. That young man. That young man on the cross. Our Savior said, "Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do." That man. That young man. I forgive him. I forgive him because it was what Christ did in his. What Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love and always love.

    Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us.

    Its a rather a self-righteous, hypocritical love though isn't it, given that according to their theology they believe most of their persecutors are destined for eternal torment in hell.
    No, I get the impression (FWIW) that she's genuine, though I have a very different world view.
    The rest of the event was... somewhat different.
    I'm sure she was genuine and she believes all the 'love thy enemy' and 'salvation through Christ' evangelism.

    But that evangelism also believes that those who haven't turned to Jesus are destined for eternal torment.

    So her husband's killer gets a place in heaven if he 'discovers Jesus' while kind, moral, helpful people go to hell merely because they have the wrong or no religion.

    I'm not an admirer of 'salvationist' beliefs.
    Don't try and bring logic into that discussion.

    I've known people who've planned to 'repent' when in their death-beds. Whether they actually managed it, or will actually do so I don't know.
    Nor do I know ..... there are people here who might tell me ..... whether doing so 'counts' as repentance.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,548

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charlie Kirk’s widow Erika, speaking at his memorial yesterday.

    https://x.com/tpusa/status/1969944725454192767

    My husband, Charlie. He wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life. That young man. That young man on the cross. Our Savior said, "Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do." That man. That young man. I forgive him. I forgive him because it was what Christ did in his. What Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love and always love.

    Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us.

    Its a rather a self-righteous, hypocritical love though isn't it, given that according to their theology they believe most of their persecutors are destined for eternal torment in hell.
    No, I get the impression (FWIW) that she's genuine, though I have a very different world view.
    The rest of the event was... somewhat different.
    I'm sure she was genuine and she believes all the 'love thy enemy' and 'salvation through Christ' evangelism.

    But that evangelism also believes that those who haven't turned to Jesus are destined for eternal torment.

    So her husband's killer gets a place in heaven if he 'discovers Jesus' while kind, moral, helpful people go to hell merely because they have the wrong or no religion.

    I'm not an admirer of 'salvationist' beliefs.
    Don't try and bring logic into that discussion.

    I've known people who've planned to 'repent' when in their death-beds. Whether they actually managed it, or will actually do so I don't know.
    Nor do I know ..... there are people here who might tell me ..... whether doing so 'counts' as repentance.
    If God says that is repentance, then God is not worth following. :)
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,634

    'The UK's now in a peculiar position of recognising Palestine, which barely functions as a political entity, yet we do not extend recognition to Taiwan or Somaliland, both of which have governments, legislatures and electoral systems, and are actually operative polities.'

    https://x.com/EliotWilson2/status/1969915565507555468

    Deleted
    If Israel gets its own way, Palestine will be deleted.
    Neat!

    Israel, it seems, takes a fundamentalist Biblical view; God gave the land of Canaan to the Jews and that means all of it!

    Although from my hazy memory of the Bible, Gaza was never Israelite/Jewish.
    Seen on the wall that separates the West Bank from Israel - "God is not a landlord".

    And is seems somewhat geographical in that Buddha or the many Shinto gods appear not have a say? It's all very convenient.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,369
    The Mad King says he hates (at least) half of Americans, and it's not news
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,021

    eek said:

    Roger said:

    About as close as Alastair Campbell will ever get to complimenting Nigel Farage…
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hteDhCJWIf8

    45 seconds of TRiP clip most interesting for the throwaway criticism of government ministers.

    An interesting conspiracy theory on the clip after the Alastair Campbell one........

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VYPxN5EbuCE
    I don't buy the full conspiracy but yes, Gaza is one of the issues, and Epstein another, on which the MAGA support ship is starting to founder. Some of the ICE raids too. It is interesting that Americans can applaud Trump for blocking illegal immigration while not wanting commando raids on shopkeepers with funny accents. (This may be a lesson for Reform too, where they are just starting to talk about deporting legal immigrants. People have an innate sense of fairness.)
    It’s not fairness, people dislike the immigrants they don’t know but will protect those they know (even vaguely)
    Yes. My immigrant friends have lots of stories of people moaning about immigrants to them, but then qualifying it with, "but not you, you're alright."

    The bureaucracy obviously doesn't make such distinctions.
    My wife has fond memories of the "my dad hates p*kis but you're alright" conversations in the 1980s. How wonderful that Farage is bringing those days back.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,335
    edited September 22
    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,730

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Preach it, brother!

    I love old stuff. They got the Noom. The artisan put it in there

    You can buy hand-blown glass so delicate and beautiful it’s a work of art, from 1763, for well under £100
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,519
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charlie Kirk’s widow Erika, speaking at his memorial yesterday.

    https://x.com/tpusa/status/1969944725454192767

    My husband, Charlie. He wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life. That young man. That young man on the cross. Our Savior said, "Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do." That man. That young man. I forgive him. I forgive him because it was what Christ did in his. What Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love and always love.

    Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us.

    Now do the rest of the rally, paying particular attention to Stephen Miller.

    I though PBers were being a bit previous, referencing Horst Wessel prior to the rally.
    After Miller's rant, it now seems quite justified.
    Here's the entire speech.
    https://x.com/Memphissippi6/status/1969865121754394842
    More the essence of Trump/MAGA than Christian love and forgiveness, I'm afraid.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,784
    edited September 22

    eek said:

    Roger said:

    About as close as Alastair Campbell will ever get to complimenting Nigel Farage…
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hteDhCJWIf8

    45 seconds of TRiP clip most interesting for the throwaway criticism of government ministers.

    An interesting conspiracy theory on the clip after the Alastair Campbell one........

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VYPxN5EbuCE
    I don't buy the full conspiracy but yes, Gaza is one of the issues, and Epstein another, on which the MAGA support ship is starting to founder. Some of the ICE raids too. It is interesting that Americans can applaud Trump for blocking illegal immigration while not wanting commando raids on shopkeepers with funny accents. (This may be a lesson for Reform too, where they are just starting to talk about deporting legal immigrants. People have an innate sense of fairness.)
    It’s not fairness, people dislike the immigrants they don’t know but will protect those they know (even vaguely)
    Yes. My immigrant friends have lots of stories of people moaning about immigrants to them, but then qualifying it with, "but not you, you're alright."

    The bureaucracy obviously doesn't make such distinctions.
    My wife has fond memories of the "my dad hates p*kis but you're alright" conversations in the 1980s. How wonderful that Farage is bringing those days back.
    Farage was part of that era himself. He was apparently smirkingly obsessed with scrawling his initials, N.F., in huge letters all over his school equipment, at the height of the National Front period in the late '70s and early '80s.

  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Preach it, brother!

    I love old stuff. They got the Noom. The artisan put it in there

    You can buy hand-blown glass so delicate and beautiful it’s a work of art, from 1763, for well under £100
    Yes but the problem with glass is, as any Antiques Roadshow viewer can attest, is that old glass is rubbish. Sure it might have an interesting story and quirky shape but that is because the craft was barely worthy of the name. It is interesting in the same way old computers are interesting, which is to say not at all for most people and if you want to use them rather than look at them, then head to John Lewis for a set of six champagne flutes and a Macbook.
  • Leon said:

    ..

    Leon said:

    I just watched this clip of Erika Kirk’s eulogy for her husband

    Wow. WOW WOW WOW

    https://x.com/__injaneb96/status/1969913302454309147?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Probably the most powerful example of speech-making I’ve seen this decade. Deeply moving. Made me stop and think. Watch it

    Did it make you stop and think who is the hate-filled, orange buffoon that came after her?
    Yes, of course. The contrast is stark



    Trump thinks forgiveness is a sign of weakness.
    That's because he doesn't realise that forgiveness helps the forgiver not the forgivee
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,021

    eek said:

    Roger said:

    About as close as Alastair Campbell will ever get to complimenting Nigel Farage…
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hteDhCJWIf8

    45 seconds of TRiP clip most interesting for the throwaway criticism of government ministers.

    An interesting conspiracy theory on the clip after the Alastair Campbell one........

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VYPxN5EbuCE
    I don't buy the full conspiracy but yes, Gaza is one of the issues, and Epstein another, on which the MAGA support ship is starting to founder. Some of the ICE raids too. It is interesting that Americans can applaud Trump for blocking illegal immigration while not wanting commando raids on shopkeepers with funny accents. (This may be a lesson for Reform too, where they are just starting to talk about deporting legal immigrants. People have an innate sense of fairness.)
    It’s not fairness, people dislike the immigrants they don’t know but will protect those they know (even vaguely)
    Yes. My immigrant friends have lots of stories of people moaning about immigrants to them, but then qualifying it with, "but not you, you're alright."

    The bureaucracy obviously doesn't make such distinctions.
    My wife has fond memories of the "my dad hates p*kis but you're alright" conversations in the 1980s. How wonderful that Farage is bringing those days back.
    Farage was part of that era, himself. He was obsessed with smirkingly scrawling his initials N.F. in hige letters all over his school gear, at fhe height of the National Front period..
    I remember NF spray painted on walls growing up. It really feels like we are going backwards as a country. Insane that people are lapping up this shit.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,730

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Preach it, brother!

    I love old stuff. They got the Noom. The artisan put it in there

    You can buy hand-blown glass so delicate and beautiful it’s a work of art, from 1763, for well under £100
    Yes but the problem with glass is, as any Antiques Roadshow viewer can attest, is that old glass is rubbish. Sure it might have an interesting story and quirky shape but that is because the craft was barely worthy of the name. It is interesting in the same way old computers are interesting, which is to say not at all for most people and if you want to use them rather than look at them, then head to John Lewis for a set of six champagne flutes and a Macbook.
    You’re a soul-less idiot. Come to the Light of the Noom
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,104
    edited September 22

    Fckn hell, ‘reportedly’. Were the reporters the voices in his head?

    https://x.com/nicholaslissack/status/1969364232807252113?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    "Reportedly" is a Celia Walden column in the Telegraph, where she reports John Mappin claiming that QEII was keen on Kirk's "Christian values". Mappin (as in Mappin & Webb) was an early funder of TPUK, and a supporter of Reform. He's also flown a QAnon flag from his hotel. Mappin is a little confused, calling himself a "Christian Scientologist", whatever that is.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/b98f9243c5abd671

    Nicholas Lissack is one of Farage's "passionate young leaders like me" (says Lisack).
  • Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Part of a wider issue, not just for Reeves, but for all of us.

    Now that, as a planet, we're quite close to having enough stuff and it's mostly built to last a long time, what are we going to all do all day?
    (See also all the creative arts. Even AI is more hassle and expense than simply making a copy of something out of copyright.)
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,634
    Back to Danny Kruger. Didn't he promised some sort of costed policy on sorting out the UK. Just a reminder of what he said

    "He said: "There have been moments when I have been very proud to belong to the Tory party", but added: "The rule of our time in office was failure.

    "Bigger government, social decline, lower wages, higher taxes and less of what ordinary people actually wanted."

    He added: "This is my tragic conclusion, the Conservative Party is over, over as a national party, over as the principal opposition to the left."

    Seems to be borne out when looking at those Civil Servant numbers (aka the blob).


  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,369

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    The "generic john lewis one" Reidel could also be hand blown in a factory with centuries of tradition
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485

    eek said:

    Roger said:

    About as close as Alastair Campbell will ever get to complimenting Nigel Farage…
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hteDhCJWIf8

    45 seconds of TRiP clip most interesting for the throwaway criticism of government ministers.

    An interesting conspiracy theory on the clip after the Alastair Campbell one........

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VYPxN5EbuCE
    I don't buy the full conspiracy but yes, Gaza is one of the issues, and Epstein another, on which the MAGA support ship is starting to founder. Some of the ICE raids too. It is interesting that Americans can applaud Trump for blocking illegal immigration while not wanting commando raids on shopkeepers with funny accents. (This may be a lesson for Reform too, where they are just starting to talk about deporting legal immigrants. People have an innate sense of fairness.)
    It’s not fairness, people dislike the immigrants they don’t know but will protect those they know (even vaguely)
    Yes. My immigrant friends have lots of stories of people moaning about immigrants to them, but then qualifying it with, "but not you, you're alright."

    The bureaucracy obviously doesn't make such distinctions.
    My wife has fond memories of the "my dad hates p*kis but you're alright" conversations in the 1980s. How wonderful that Farage is bringing those days back.
    Farage was part of that era, himself. He was obsessed with smirkingly scrawling his initials N.F. in hige letters all over his school gear, at fhe height of the National Front period..
    I remember NF spray painted on walls growing up. It really feels like we are going backwards as a country. Insane that people are lapping up this shit.
    Brexit did make their lives better so they are trying the next hopium idea.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,021
    Battlebus said:

    Back to Danny Kruger. Didn't he promised some sort of costed policy on sorting out the UK. Just a reminder of what he said

    "He said: "There have been moments when I have been very proud to belong to the Tory party", but added: "The rule of our time in office was failure.

    "Bigger government, social decline, lower wages, higher taxes and less of what ordinary people actually wanted."

    He added: "This is my tragic conclusion, the Conservative Party is over, over as a national party, over as the principal opposition to the left."

    Seems to be borne out when looking at those Civil Servant numbers (aka the blob).


    Rising civil service numbers were inevitable after Brexit, as we repatriated a whole host of regulatory functions from Brussels. I don't know what people expected to happen.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,301

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    The thing is, there are more people than ever, and no-one is making 1750 glasses anymore. So it speaks to a change in fashion as to which old things are considered worth collecting, or a reduction in the size of the group of people who are well enough off to buy objects for reasons if beauty as well as utility - a hollowing out of the middle class, perhaps.

    Rare Warhammer models are sold for prices that look even more stupid compared to Georgian wine glasses.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,021

    eek said:

    Roger said:

    About as close as Alastair Campbell will ever get to complimenting Nigel Farage…
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hteDhCJWIf8

    45 seconds of TRiP clip most interesting for the throwaway criticism of government ministers.

    An interesting conspiracy theory on the clip after the Alastair Campbell one........

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VYPxN5EbuCE
    I don't buy the full conspiracy but yes, Gaza is one of the issues, and Epstein another, on which the MAGA support ship is starting to founder. Some of the ICE raids too. It is interesting that Americans can applaud Trump for blocking illegal immigration while not wanting commando raids on shopkeepers with funny accents. (This may be a lesson for Reform too, where they are just starting to talk about deporting legal immigrants. People have an innate sense of fairness.)
    It’s not fairness, people dislike the immigrants they don’t know but will protect those they know (even vaguely)
    Yes. My immigrant friends have lots of stories of people moaning about immigrants to them, but then qualifying it with, "but not you, you're alright."

    The bureaucracy obviously doesn't make such distinctions.
    My wife has fond memories of the "my dad hates p*kis but you're alright" conversations in the 1980s. How wonderful that Farage is bringing those days back.
    Farage was part of that era, himself. He was obsessed with smirkingly scrawling his initials N.F. in hige letters all over his school gear, at fhe height of the National Front period..
    I remember NF spray painted on walls growing up. It really feels like we are going backwards as a country. Insane that people are lapping up this shit.
    Brexit did make their lives better so they are trying the next hopium idea.
    Sold by the same snake oil salesmen.
  • Leon said:

    'The UK's now in a peculiar position of recognising Palestine, which barely functions as a political entity, yet we do not extend recognition to Taiwan or Somaliland, both of which have governments, legislatures and electoral systems, and are actually operative polities.'

    https://x.com/EliotWilson2/status/1969915565507555468

    Starmer and Labour are in danger of falling into the same trap as Kemi and also the LibDems, of unserious, gesture politics.
    Here’s that new recognised Hamas state live streaming roadside executions in Gaza

    https://x.com/jonsac/status/1969817523324322272?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Well done, Sir Kier
    I don't think we recognised Hamas-ruled Gaza, rather the PNA ruled West Bank and Gaza combined entity, Gaza effectively being in a state of revolt
    Which is complete BS, which is why it was the most absurd vice signalling possible by Starmer to go ahead with it.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,585

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charlie Kirk’s widow Erika, speaking at his memorial yesterday.

    https://x.com/tpusa/status/1969944725454192767

    My husband, Charlie. He wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life. That young man. That young man on the cross. Our Savior said, "Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do." That man. That young man. I forgive him. I forgive him because it was what Christ did in his. What Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love and always love.

    Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us.

    Its a rather a self-righteous, hypocritical love though isn't it, given that according to their theology they believe most of their persecutors are destined for eternal torment in hell.
    No, I get the impression (FWIW) that she's genuine, though I have a very different world view.
    The rest of the event was... somewhat different.
    I'm sure she was genuine and she believes all the 'love thy enemy' and 'salvation through Christ' evangelism.

    But that evangelism also believes that those who haven't turned to Jesus are destined for eternal torment.

    So her husband's killer gets a place in heaven if he 'discovers Jesus' while kind, moral, helpful people go to hell merely because they have the wrong or no religion.

    I'm not an admirer of 'salvationist' beliefs.
    Part of the problem of 'evangelical' identity is the sheer variety of beliefs in an area such as this. The old belief that most people went to an everlasting doom of torment was widely shared among all stripes of Christians, at least officially, not only evangelicals.

    Those who label themselves evangelical include some who love the old hell fire doctrine, but not very many. They are mostly a bit vague or agnostic, some are 'anihilationist' - ie the fate of most is extinction (as of course generally atheists believe about everyone). And some are openly universalist - everyone, they hope, gets saved in the end. They are the ones who spend time patiently reading St Paul, who believed this but makes heavy weather of it, and only gets there quite late in his writings.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,104
    edited September 22
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Preach it, brother!

    I love old stuff. They got the Noom. The artisan put it in there

    You can buy hand-blown glass so delicate and beautiful it’s a work of art, from 1763, for well under £100
    Yes but the problem with glass is, as any Antiques Roadshow viewer can attest, is that old glass is rubbish. Sure it might have an interesting story and quirky shape but that is because the craft was barely worthy of the name. It is interesting in the same way old computers are interesting, which is to say not at all for most people and if you want to use them rather than look at them, then head to John Lewis for a set of six champagne flutes and a Macbook.
    You’re a soul-less idiot. Come to the Light of the Noom
    Are we about to have a PB culture war about Ancient vs Modern Glass?

    The best Georgian stained glass at 75% what it was before sounds interesting.

    Though my last purchase was a 1990s Malcolm Sutcliffe dolphin bowl - the previous went to someone else in the family, and I missed it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,730
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    The "generic john lewis one" Reidel could also be hand blown in a factory with centuries of tradition
    Reidel handmade glass is expensive

    • Sommeliers: Expect to pay around £88 to £110 per glass. A set of four can cost approximately £352. 
    • Fatto a Mano: A single glass from this collection is priced at about £78.
    • Superleggero (Handmade): A single handmade glass costs around £68.


    So that’s at least twice as much as the gorgeous noomy historic hand-blown glass from 1760 that was probably used by Shelley
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,778

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    It’s very sad that we no longer value craftsmanship. Cheap tat that can be replaced as soon it’s not fashionable seems de rigeur nowadays.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,218
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Preach it, brother!

    I love old stuff. They got the Noom. The artisan put it in there

    You can buy hand-blown glass so delicate and beautiful it’s a work of art, from 1763, for well under £100
    Yes but the problem with glass is, as any Antiques Roadshow viewer can attest, is that old glass is rubbish. Sure it might have an interesting story and quirky shape but that is because the craft was barely worthy of the name. It is interesting in the same way old computers are interesting, which is to say not at all for most people and if you want to use them rather than look at them, then head to John Lewis for a set of six champagne flutes and a Macbook.
    You’re a soul-less idiot. Come to the Light of the Noom
    Are we about to have a PB culture war about Ancient vs Modern Glass?

    The best Georgian stained glass at 75% what it was before sounds interesting.

    Though my last purchase was a 1990s Malcolm Sutcliffe dolphin bowl - the previous went to someone else in the family, and I missed it.
    Modern glass is all about quantity, we're involved in building a 1300 ton a day facility at the moment.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,730

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    The thing is, there are more people than ever, and no-one is making 1750 glasses anymore. So it speaks to a change in fashion as to which old things are considered worth collecting, or a reduction in the size of the group of people who are well enough off to buy objects for reasons if beauty as well as utility - a hollowing out of the middle class, perhaps.

    Rare Warhammer models are sold for prices that look even more stupid compared to Georgian wine glasses.
    But you don’t have to pay more for beauty (and noom) on top of utility. That’s the point. My go-to wine glass for the last few years has been a nice cut Reidel white wine glass. Shapely and pleasing but not so expensive I weep when it breaks. It has to do a job

    Cost? £35. Exactly the same as that infinitely more desirable dram glass from 1760
  • Battlebus said:

    Back to Danny Kruger. Didn't he promised some sort of costed policy on sorting out the UK. Just a reminder of what he said

    "He said: "There have been moments when I have been very proud to belong to the Tory party", but added: "The rule of our time in office was failure.

    "Bigger government, social decline, lower wages, higher taxes and less of what ordinary people actually wanted."

    He added: "This is my tragic conclusion, the Conservative Party is over, over as a national party, over as the principal opposition to the left."

    Seems to be borne out when looking at those Civil Servant numbers (aka the blob).


    Variation is so great that further explanation is called for. Have definitions changed? Are we counting security guards in Job Centres alongside Oxbridge-educated Sir Humphreys?
  • eekeek Posts: 31,426
    edited September 22
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,218
    edited September 22
    eek said:

    Christian Horner has received £80m as a redundancy payment...

    £40m. :p

    How's he got so much, it's about 8 years salary !

    Also how can RedBull afford it, it's material against the F1 cost cap unless it's disapplied in instances such as this.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,432
    I wondered what Steve Baker is up to these days.

    https://capx.co/half-measures-wont-cut-it-britain-needs-radicalism

    "We must retake the language of freedom and free markets and speak about them with the positivity that they deserve. We have somehow allowed these amazing concepts that function to serve all of us to become dirty words. It is bewildering that it is often more acceptable to call oneself a socialist than a capitalist."

    https://www.fightingforafreefuture.com/listen-to-the-insurgency/

    First guest: Danny Kruger
  • Ivan Ronaldson, Real Tennis pro at clubs in Britain, France and the US, developing many future stars
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2025/09/19/ivan-ronaldson-real-tennis-hampton-court-prince-edward/ (£££)

    I'm not suggesting you read this obituary that I mention only to propose a new class distinction. Now that our great public schools have abolished flogging and fagging, you can tell a school is posh if it offers ‘real tennis’ as a sport.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,104
    edited September 22
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charlie Kirk’s widow Erika, speaking at his memorial yesterday.

    https://x.com/tpusa/status/1969944725454192767

    My husband, Charlie. He wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life. That young man. That young man on the cross. Our Savior said, "Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do." That man. That young man. I forgive him. I forgive him because it was what Christ did in his. What Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love and always love.

    Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us.

    Its a rather a self-righteous, hypocritical love though isn't it, given that according to their theology they believe most of their persecutors are destined for eternal torment in hell.
    No, I get the impression (FWIW) that she's genuine, though I have a very different world view.
    The rest of the event was... somewhat different.
    I'm sure she was genuine and she believes all the 'love thy enemy' and 'salvation through Christ' evangelism.

    But that evangelism also believes that those who haven't turned to Jesus are destined for eternal torment.

    So her husband's killer gets a place in heaven if he 'discovers Jesus' while kind, moral, helpful people go to hell merely because they have the wrong or no religion.

    I'm not an admirer of 'salvationist' beliefs.
    Part of the problem of 'evangelical' identity is the sheer variety of beliefs in an area such as this. The old belief that most people went to an everlasting doom of torment was widely shared among all stripes of Christians, at least officially, not only evangelicals.

    Those who label themselves evangelical include some who love the old hell fire doctrine, but not very many. They are mostly a bit vague or agnostic, some are 'anihilationist' - ie the fate of most is extinction (as of course generally atheists believe about everyone). And some are openly universalist - everyone, they hope, gets saved in the end. They are the ones who spend time patiently reading St Paul, who believed this but makes heavy weather of it, and only gets there quite late in his writings.
    In view my most of that is peripheral, and having a civil war about a theological version of deckchairs on the Titanic.

    I'd describe Kirk's (and Mrs Kirk's) evangelicalism as being a creature of USA culture, a development on an old tradition. My best analog for Kirk as an influencer is Father Coughlin, the RC radio priest in the 1930s who built a weekly audience of 20% of the population, with his rhetoric supporting Italy and Germany.

    Interestingly Coughlin followed a radicalisation path like some today - he started out as a New Dealer, then went via attacks on Jewish Bankers to some support for fascism. Compare to some today, figures in the UK, Musk, or perhaps JD Vance, with Muslims in the place of Jewish Bankers.

    They need a theology that justifies them viewing themselves as the best country in the world, overtly militaristic, and rich, even though politically the USA is on the skids. Manifest Destiny cultural assumptions do not help. It's like the self-regard of Victorians in the UK, and their successors even as the "golden age" drained away.

    That's partly why mission is two way not one way, and mission agencies (at least Anglican and many evangelical mission agencies - I'm not very familiar with RC) in the UK have viewed mission as a partnership since the 1970s. Some of the best UK bishops and other leaders have come from abroad, because they come with different assumptions.

    I'd argue that the UK will by and large not fall for Kirk's siloed version of evangelical Christianity.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,695
    .

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Is there any issue with the very high lead oxide content ?
    I've never really seen a satisfactorily definitive answer to that.

    PB chemists ?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,798

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    It’s very sad that we no longer value craftsmanship. Cheap tat that can be replaced as soon it’s not fashionable seems de rigeur nowadays.
    We do value craftsmanship. But, we mustn't forget that while Shelley or whoever might have drunk from that Georgian glass, the people in the street at the time would have had to manage with a difficult-to-clean earthenware pot.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,634
    Pulpstar said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Preach it, brother!

    I love old stuff. They got the Noom. The artisan put it in there

    You can buy hand-blown glass so delicate and beautiful it’s a work of art, from 1763, for well under £100
    Yes but the problem with glass is, as any Antiques Roadshow viewer can attest, is that old glass is rubbish. Sure it might have an interesting story and quirky shape but that is because the craft was barely worthy of the name. It is interesting in the same way old computers are interesting, which is to say not at all for most people and if you want to use them rather than look at them, then head to John Lewis for a set of six champagne flutes and a Macbook.
    You’re a soul-less idiot. Come to the Light of the Noom
    Are we about to have a PB culture war about Ancient vs Modern Glass?

    The best Georgian stained glass at 75% what it was before sounds interesting.

    Though my last purchase was a 1990s Malcolm Sutcliffe dolphin bowl - the previous went to someone else in the family, and I missed it.
    Modern glass is all about quantity, we're involved in building a 1300 ton a day facility at the moment.
    This one?

    https://cinerglass.com/ciner-glass-lommel/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,548

    Ivan Ronaldson, Real Tennis pro at clubs in Britain, France and the US, developing many future stars
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2025/09/19/ivan-ronaldson-real-tennis-hampton-court-prince-edward/ (£££)

    I'm not suggesting you read this obituary that I mention only to propose a new class distinction. Now that our great public schools have abolished flogging and fagging, you can tell a school is posh if it offers ‘real tennis’ as a sport.

    We didn't have real tennis, but we did have Fives (which I quite enjoyed).

    The Fives courts have apparently now gone, replaced by a gym...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,695
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    The "generic john lewis one" Reidel could also be hand blown in a factory with centuries of tradition
    Reidel handmade glass is expensive

    • Sommeliers: Expect to pay around £88 to £110 per glass. A set of four can cost approximately £352. 
    • Fatto a Mano: A single glass from this collection is priced at about £78.
    • Superleggero (Handmade): A single handmade glass costs around £68.


    So that’s at least twice as much as the gorgeous noomy historic hand-blown glass from 1760 that was probably used by Shelley
    Or an old Jacobite.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,195
    edited September 22
    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Christian Horner has received £80m as a redundancy payment...

    £40m. :p

    How's he got so much, it's about 8 years salary !

    Also how can RedBull afford it, it's material against the F1 cost cap unless it's disapplied in instances such as this.
    That’s a crazy amount of money, the team must really have wanted to see the back of him!

    Presumably he’s agreeing to keep his mouth shut and not write a book, and maybe is getting cumulative performance bonuses of some sort.

    Redundancy payments, gardening leave etc are outside the F1 cost cap rules, as are the three highest salaries in the company.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,730

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Preach it, brother!

    I love old stuff. They got the Noom. The artisan put it in there

    You can buy hand-blown glass so delicate and beautiful it’s a work of art, from 1763, for well under £100
    Yes but the problem with glass is, as any Antiques Roadshow viewer can attest, is that old glass is rubbish. Sure it might have an interesting story and quirky shape but that is because the craft was barely worthy of the name. It is interesting in the same way old computers are interesting, which is to say not at all for most people and if you want to use them rather than look at them, then head to John Lewis for a set of six champagne flutes and a Macbook.
    By the way, this is the “rubbish” Georgian glassware you speak of. Made by a craftsman “barely worthy of the name”

    It’s an “engraved opaque twist wine glass” from 1760. It’s so beautiful sometimes I just look at it. Other times it glows rich and golden with shots of Fielden English rye whisky

    Cost? £64. Cheaper than any modern handmade glass from Reidel. 265 years old



  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,692
    ...

    Ivan Ronaldson, Real Tennis pro at clubs in Britain, France and the US, developing many future stars
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2025/09/19/ivan-ronaldson-real-tennis-hampton-court-prince-edward/ (£££)

    I'm not suggesting you read this obituary that I mention only to propose a new class distinction. Now that our great public schools have abolished flogging and fagging, you can tell a school is posh if it offers ‘real tennis’ as a sport.

    A great public school is only worthy of the name if it has a beagle pack.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,798
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    The "generic john lewis one" Reidel could also be hand blown in a factory with centuries of tradition
    Reidel handmade glass is expensive

    • Sommeliers: Expect to pay around £88 to £110 per glass. A set of four can cost approximately £352. 
    • Fatto a Mano: A single glass from this collection is priced at about £78.
    • Superleggero (Handmade): A single handmade glass costs around £68.


    So that’s at least twice as much as the gorgeous noomy historic hand-blown glass from 1760 that was probably used by Shelley
    Or an old Jacobite.
    Anyone seen him lately?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,548
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Christian Horner has received £80m as a redundancy payment...

    £40m. :p

    How's he got so much, it's about 8 years salary !

    Also how can RedBull afford it, it's material against the F1 cost cap unless it's disapplied in instances such as this.
    That’s a crazy amount of money, the team must really have wanted to see the back of him!

    Presumably he’s agreeing to keep his mouth shut and not write a book, and maybe is getting cumulative performance bonuses of some sort.

    Redundancy payments, gardening leave etc are outside the F1 cost cap rules, as are the three highest salaries in the company.
    It's a "you will not sue us" deal.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,199
    edited September 22
    Pulpstar said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Preach it, brother!

    I love old stuff. They got the Noom. The artisan put it in there

    You can buy hand-blown glass so delicate and beautiful it’s a work of art, from 1763, for well under £100
    Yes but the problem with glass is, as any Antiques Roadshow viewer can attest, is that old glass is rubbish. Sure it might have an interesting story and quirky shape but that is because the craft was barely worthy of the name. It is interesting in the same way old computers are interesting, which is to say not at all for most people and if you want to use them rather than look at them, then head to John Lewis for a set of six champagne flutes and a Macbook.
    You’re a soul-less idiot. Come to the Light of the Noom
    Are we about to have a PB culture war about Ancient vs Modern Glass?

    The best Georgian stained glass at 75% what it was before sounds interesting.

    Though my last purchase was a 1990s Malcolm Sutcliffe dolphin bowl - the previous went to someone else in the family, and I missed it.
    Modern glass is all about quantity, we're involved in building a 1300 ton a day facility at the moment.
    There is very little antiques in the roadshow these days. Fiona Brice would be better seen and not heard. They sometimes refuse to value things. The show is best recorded and Bruce's 10.mins avoided... or not bothered with at all.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,301
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    The thing is, there are more people than ever, and no-one is making 1750 glasses anymore. So it speaks to a change in fashion as to which old things are considered worth collecting, or a reduction in the size of the group of people who are well enough off to buy objects for reasons if beauty as well as utility - a hollowing out of the middle class, perhaps.

    Rare Warhammer models are sold for prices that look even more stupid compared to Georgian wine glasses.
    But you don’t have to pay more for beauty (and noom) on top of utility. That’s the point. My go-to wine glass for the last few years has been a nice cut Reidel white wine glass. Shapely and pleasing but not so expensive I weep when it breaks. It has to do a job

    Cost? £35. Exactly the same as that infinitely more desirable dram glass from 1760
    €2.50 for a wine glass from IKEA.
    https://www.ikea.com/ie/en/cat/wine-glasses-18870/

    If you are spending £35 on a wine glass then you're in that group who are well enough off to buy objects for reasons other than utility. Maybe that group has shrunk, or maybe they value Warhammer models more than wine glasses?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,492
    Nigel has certainly eschewed any type of Ming Vase strategy. This could be make-or-break time for him.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,218
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Christian Horner has received £80m as a redundancy payment...

    £40m. :p

    How's he got so much, it's about 8 years salary !

    Also how can RedBull afford it, it's material against the F1 cost cap unless it's disapplied in instances such as this.
    That’s a crazy amount of money, the team must really have wanted to see the back of him!

    Presumably he’s agreeing to keep his mouth shut and not write a book, and maybe is getting cumulative performance bonuses of some sort.

    Redundancy payments, gardening leave etc are outside the F1 cost cap rules, as are the three highest salaries in the company.
    I know Mekies is the head there now but when push and shove come it's Max and Jos who decide what's what.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,104
    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Christian Horner has received £80m as a redundancy payment...

    £40m. :p

    How's he got so much, it's about 8 years salary !

    Also how can RedBull afford it, it's material against the F1 cost cap unless it's disapplied in instances such as this.
    Remainder of contract value, plus bonuses, that they signed to keep him there?

    His contract runs to the end of 2030.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,634
    Andy McConnell, the glass expert (?) on Antiques Roadshow, had a place in Rye. You could wander around and look at all the items and wonder about the skills used to make them. His place is closed now but a new antiques venture has opened in its place. Rye has a lot of these emporia.

    I'm more a 1300 tonne a day sort of guy. Bigger toys to play with.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,730

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    The thing is, there are more people than ever, and no-one is making 1750 glasses anymore. So it speaks to a change in fashion as to which old things are considered worth collecting, or a reduction in the size of the group of people who are well enough off to buy objects for reasons if beauty as well as utility - a hollowing out of the middle class, perhaps.

    Rare Warhammer models are sold for prices that look even more stupid compared to Georgian wine glasses.
    But you don’t have to pay more for beauty (and noom) on top of utility. That’s the point. My go-to wine glass for the last few years has been a nice cut Reidel white wine glass. Shapely and pleasing but not so expensive I weep when it breaks. It has to do a job

    Cost? £35. Exactly the same as that infinitely more desirable dram glass from 1760
    €2.50 for a wine glass from IKEA.
    https://www.ikea.com/ie/en/cat/wine-glasses-18870/

    If you are spending £35 on a wine glass then you're in that group who are well enough off to buy objects for reasons other than utility. Maybe that group has shrunk, or maybe they value Warhammer models more than wine glasses?
    You final half sentence feels like an epitaph for western civilisation
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,247
    lockhimup said:

    Leon said:

    ..

    Leon said:

    I just watched this clip of Erika Kirk’s eulogy for her husband

    Wow. WOW WOW WOW

    https://x.com/__injaneb96/status/1969913302454309147?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Probably the most powerful example of speech-making I’ve seen this decade. Deeply moving. Made me stop and think. Watch it

    Did it make you stop and think who is the hate-filled, orange buffoon that came after her?
    Yes, of course. The contrast is stark



    Trump thinks forgiveness is a sign of weakness.
    That's because he doesn't realise that forgiveness helps the forgiver not the forgivee
    And, Trump probably secretly hates himself.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,218
    MattW said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Christian Horner has received £80m as a redundancy payment...

    £40m. :p

    How's he got so much, it's about 8 years salary !

    Also how can RedBull afford it, it's material against the F1 cost cap unless it's disapplied in instances such as this.
    Remainder of contract value, plus bonuses, that they signed to keep him there?

    His contract runs to the end of 2030.
    OK makes more sense now. Funny how sentiment can change in big sport.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,636

    Nigel has certainly eschewed any type of Ming Vase strategy. This could be make-or-break time for him.

    Probably makes the DNV to Reform voters firmer converts but it will start to erode the 'lifelong tory' and grey vote as they recoil from the policy as too severe. It is also the sort of policy platform that, if heavily focused on in an election, will activate anti Reform tactical voting.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,692

    lockhimup said:

    Leon said:

    ..

    Leon said:

    I just watched this clip of Erika Kirk’s eulogy for her husband

    Wow. WOW WOW WOW

    https://x.com/__injaneb96/status/1969913302454309147?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Probably the most powerful example of speech-making I’ve seen this decade. Deeply moving. Made me stop and think. Watch it

    Did it make you stop and think who is the hate-filled, orange buffoon that came after her?
    Yes, of course. The contrast is stark



    Trump thinks forgiveness is a sign of weakness.
    That's because he doesn't realise that forgiveness helps the forgiver not the forgivee
    And, Trump probably secretly hates himself.
    Nah. But he does have hitlist of other people he doesn't like.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1wgg4vgeedo.amp
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521

    Ivan Ronaldson, Real Tennis pro at clubs in Britain, France and the US, developing many future stars
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2025/09/19/ivan-ronaldson-real-tennis-hampton-court-prince-edward/ (£££)

    I'm not suggesting you read this obituary that I mention only to propose a new class distinction. Now that our great public schools have abolished flogging and fagging, you can tell a school is posh if it offers ‘real tennis’ as a sport.

    Rackets is probably a better signal of posh schools than real tennis as Real Tennis is only played at four schools (the majority of courts are at clubs rather than schools, the opposite of rackets) and they wouldn’t really be considered the cream whereas Rackets is very much the preserve of posh schools.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,369
    Good article in WIRED about the tech bros and the Mad King

    https://www.wired.com/story/silicon-valley-politics-shift/

    TLDR: the 'deals' they are doing are a suicide pact. Trump kills everything he touches.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Is there any issue with the very high lead oxide content ?
    I've never really seen a satisfactorily definitive answer to that.

    PB chemists ?
    Very quick scan suggests taking care and not being pregnant. It's probably ok as an odd treat but I'm not sure I'd use it everyday. The really important bit is not to store liquids in leaded glassware as leaching will occur over time, so the longer there is contact the worse it will be. So a leaded decanter is far worse than the odd drink from a leaded glass.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,104
    Pulpstar said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Preach it, brother!

    I love old stuff. They got the Noom. The artisan put it in there

    You can buy hand-blown glass so delicate and beautiful it’s a work of art, from 1763, for well under £100
    Yes but the problem with glass is, as any Antiques Roadshow viewer can attest, is that old glass is rubbish. Sure it might have an interesting story and quirky shape but that is because the craft was barely worthy of the name. It is interesting in the same way old computers are interesting, which is to say not at all for most people and if you want to use them rather than look at them, then head to John Lewis for a set of six champagne flutes and a Macbook.
    You’re a soul-less idiot. Come to the Light of the Noom
    Are we about to have a PB culture war about Ancient vs Modern Glass?

    The best Georgian stained glass at 75% what it was before sounds interesting.

    Though my last purchase was a 1990s Malcolm Sutcliffe dolphin bowl - the previous went to someone else in the family, and I missed it.
    Modern glass is all about quantity, we're involved in building a 1300 ton a day facility at the moment.
    I think there's modern glass and modern glass. When my parents bought their one, they went to his studio where he made them himself, near Chesterfield, and talked to him about it.

    My main thing is "do I like it".
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,317

    Ivan Ronaldson, Real Tennis pro at clubs in Britain, France and the US, developing many future stars
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2025/09/19/ivan-ronaldson-real-tennis-hampton-court-prince-edward/ (£££)

    I'm not suggesting you read this obituary that I mention only to propose a new class distinction. Now that our great public schools have abolished flogging and fagging, you can tell a school is posh if it offers ‘real tennis’ as a sport.

    We didn't have real tennis, but we did have Fives (which I quite enjoyed).

    The Fives courts have apparently now gone, replaced by a gym...
    We had fives courts at my state Grammar, but no one knew how to use them. They got turned into a music block.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,784

    Battlebus said:

    Back to Danny Kruger. Didn't he promised some sort of costed policy on sorting out the UK. Just a reminder of what he said

    "He said: "There have been moments when I have been very proud to belong to the Tory party", but added: "The rule of our time in office was failure.

    "Bigger government, social decline, lower wages, higher taxes and less of what ordinary people actually wanted."

    He added: "This is my tragic conclusion, the Conservative Party is over, over as a national party, over as the principal opposition to the left."

    Seems to be borne out when looking at those Civil Servant numbers (aka the blob).


    Rising civil service numbers were inevitable after Brexit, as we repatriated a whole host of regulatory functions from Brussels. I don't know what people expected to happen.
    What functions did we desperately need that the EU provided, do tell.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,104
    edited September 22

    eek said:

    Roger said:

    About as close as Alastair Campbell will ever get to complimenting Nigel Farage…
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hteDhCJWIf8

    45 seconds of TRiP clip most interesting for the throwaway criticism of government ministers.

    An interesting conspiracy theory on the clip after the Alastair Campbell one........

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VYPxN5EbuCE
    I don't buy the full conspiracy but yes, Gaza is one of the issues, and Epstein another, on which the MAGA support ship is starting to founder. Some of the ICE raids too. It is interesting that Americans can applaud Trump for blocking illegal immigration while not wanting commando raids on shopkeepers with funny accents. (This may be a lesson for Reform too, where they are just starting to talk about deporting legal immigrants. People have an innate sense of fairness.)
    It’s not fairness, people dislike the immigrants they don’t know but will protect those they know (even vaguely)
    Yes. My immigrant friends have lots of stories of people moaning about immigrants to them, but then qualifying it with, "but not you, you're alright."

    The bureaucracy obviously doesn't make such distinctions.
    My wife has fond memories of the "my dad hates p*kis but you're alright" conversations in the 1980s. How wonderful that Farage is bringing those days back.
    Farage was part of that era, himself. He was obsessed with smirkingly scrawling his initials N.F. in hige letters all over his school gear, at fhe height of the National Front period..
    I remember NF spray painted on walls growing up. It really feels like we are going backwards as a country. Insane that people are lapping up this shit.
    Nottingham Forest?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,104

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Is there any issue with the very high lead oxide content ?
    I've never really seen a satisfactorily definitive answer to that.

    PB chemists ?
    Very quick scan suggests taking care and not being pregnant. It's probably ok as an odd treat but I'm not sure I'd use it everyday. The really important bit is not to store liquids in leaded glassware as leaching will occur over time, so the longer there is contact the worse it will be. So a leaded decanter is far worse than the odd drink from a leaded glass.
    Boomers are too old to need to worry about it :smiley: .
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,446
    All these questions and not a single one about whether this applies to EU nationals under the EU UK deal .
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,695
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Is there any issue with the very high lead oxide content ?
    I've never really seen a satisfactorily definitive answer to that.

    PB chemists ?
    Very quick scan suggests taking care and not being pregnant. It's probably ok as an odd treat but I'm not sure I'd use it everyday. The really important bit is not to store liquids in leaded glassware as leaching will occur over time, so the longer there is contact the worse it will be. So a leaded decanter is far worse than the odd drink from a leaded glass.
    Boomers are too old to need to worry about it :smiley: .
    With his famously high IQ, Leon probably has a bit of headroom, anyway.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,548
    carnforth said:

    Ivan Ronaldson, Real Tennis pro at clubs in Britain, France and the US, developing many future stars
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2025/09/19/ivan-ronaldson-real-tennis-hampton-court-prince-edward/ (£££)

    I'm not suggesting you read this obituary that I mention only to propose a new class distinction. Now that our great public schools have abolished flogging and fagging, you can tell a school is posh if it offers ‘real tennis’ as a sport.

    We didn't have real tennis, but we did have Fives (which I quite enjoyed).

    The Fives courts have apparently now gone, replaced by a gym...
    We had fives courts at my state Grammar, but no one knew how to use them. They got turned into a music block.
    I loved fives, when I could play it. The important thing was to turn up to the session early *or* have your own gloves and ball. The school's gloves were often in poor state, or even threadbare on the palm with no remaining padding, and some of the balls had become solid. So if you turned up late and got a threadbare glove and hard ball, it was like smashing your hand into concrete.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,695
    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,798
    nico67 said:

    All these questions and not a single one about whether this applies to EU nationals under the EU UK deal .

    If Farage tears that bit up, what could the EU tear up in response.

    (Just asking; I'm still hoping I'll see us Return!)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,636
    nico67 said:

    All these questions and not a single one about whether this applies to EU nationals under the EU UK deal .

    Im sure Nigel and Yusuf have thought about it very carefully and have all the angles covered. Detailed policy proposal and not a load of old shit to grab headlines
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,446
    Finally the question was asked by the DT.

    EU nationals aren’t included who had settled status from the Withdrawal Agreement.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,104
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Preach it, brother!

    I love old stuff. They got the Noom. The artisan put it in there

    You can buy hand-blown glass so delicate and beautiful it’s a work of art, from 1763, for well under £100
    Yes but the problem with glass is, as any Antiques Roadshow viewer can attest, is that old glass is rubbish. Sure it might have an interesting story and quirky shape but that is because the craft was barely worthy of the name. It is interesting in the same way old computers are interesting, which is to say not at all for most people and if you want to use them rather than look at them, then head to John Lewis for a set of six champagne flutes and a Macbook.
    By the way, this is the “rubbish” Georgian glassware you speak of. Made by a craftsman “barely worthy of the name”

    It’s an “engraved opaque twist wine glass” from 1760. It’s so beautiful sometimes I just look at it. Other times it glows rich and golden with shots of Fielden English rye whisky

    Cost? £64. Cheaper than any modern handmade glass from Reidel. 265 years old



    Nice glass. But putting a glass directly on parquetry?

    A bad habit. One day you'll do it with a wet one, and have to look up your leather bound repair book for its "removing marks from your parqs" section.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,730
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Preach it, brother!

    I love old stuff. They got the Noom. The artisan put it in there

    You can buy hand-blown glass so delicate and beautiful it’s a work of art, from 1763, for well under £100
    Yes but the problem with glass is, as any Antiques Roadshow viewer can attest, is that old glass is rubbish. Sure it might have an interesting story and quirky shape but that is because the craft was barely worthy of the name. It is interesting in the same way old computers are interesting, which is to say not at all for most people and if you want to use them rather than look at them, then head to John Lewis for a set of six champagne flutes and a Macbook.
    By the way, this is the “rubbish” Georgian glassware you speak of. Made by a craftsman “barely worthy of the name”

    It’s an “engraved opaque twist wine glass” from 1760. It’s so beautiful sometimes I just look at it. Other times it glows rich and golden with shots of Fielden English rye whisky

    Cost? £64. Cheaper than any modern handmade glass from Reidel. 265 years old



    Nice glass. But putting a glass directly on parquetry?

    A bad habit. One day you'll do it with a wet one, and have to look up your leather bound repair book for its "removing marks from your parqs" section.
    I couldn’t resist the beautiful imagery
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,219
    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    The war on fun is a real thing in this country. A lot of it came out of the woodwork in the COVID lockdowns, memorably Derbyshire police hovering drones over solitary hill walkers, and the polling that showed a large percentage of the country wanted to ban nightclubs forever.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,218
    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    The abolition of Natural England can't come quickly enough.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,021

    Battlebus said:

    Back to Danny Kruger. Didn't he promised some sort of costed policy on sorting out the UK. Just a reminder of what he said

    "He said: "There have been moments when I have been very proud to belong to the Tory party", but added: "The rule of our time in office was failure.

    "Bigger government, social decline, lower wages, higher taxes and less of what ordinary people actually wanted."

    He added: "This is my tragic conclusion, the Conservative Party is over, over as a national party, over as the principal opposition to the left."

    Seems to be borne out when looking at those Civil Servant numbers (aka the blob).


    Rising civil service numbers were inevitable after Brexit, as we repatriated a whole host of regulatory functions from Brussels. I don't know what people expected to happen.
    What functions did we desperately need that the EU provided, do tell.
    Medicines and the nuclear industry are two obvious examples. Drawing up our own rules and ensuring compliance has been quite labour intensive. We wanted to have the power to set our own rules, that obviously comes with a financial cost attached. We also massively increased the work of the Home Office and HM Customs through Brexit. None of this is contested, BTW, people like the Institute of Government have been covering it for a long time:

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/article/comment/brexit-continuing-ramp-civil-service-workforce
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,548
    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Sadly, I recognised where he was before he said it! We've been to the Royston kite festival, and it's a great little local event.

    "A “popular” kite festival that has been running for more than 30 years is being cancelled after Natural England raised objections.

    Organisers of the event in Royston, Hertfordshire, had been asked to apply for planning approval by conservators who protect Therfield Heath."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd18my2e31qo
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,177

    Battlebus said:

    Back to Danny Kruger. Didn't he promised some sort of costed policy on sorting out the UK. Just a reminder of what he said

    "He said: "There have been moments when I have been very proud to belong to the Tory party", but added: "The rule of our time in office was failure.

    "Bigger government, social decline, lower wages, higher taxes and less of what ordinary people actually wanted."

    He added: "This is my tragic conclusion, the Conservative Party is over, over as a national party, over as the principal opposition to the left."

    Seems to be borne out when looking at those Civil Servant numbers (aka the blob).


    Rising civil service numbers were inevitable after Brexit, as we repatriated a whole host of regulatory functions from Brussels. I don't know what people expected to happen.
    What functions did we desperately need that the EU provided, do tell.
    People to negotiate all of those precious trade deals that your lot kept banging on about during the referendum? Or how about administering all of those former EU agricultural subsidies that farmers can't do without? Just off the top of my head of course.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,636
    Well Reform have crossed the Rubicon. Whatever they do/achieve it will have to be from the far bank cos they ain't coming back over
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,730
    edited September 22

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Pristine Georgian wine glasses are down about 75% in price from their auction-house peak

    The colossal fall in antique value is not limited to mahogany furniture. As a result I now drink almost exclusively from glassware made 1730-1830. The glasses are small, exquisite, full of character, and with every sip of Malbec you think - OMG Byron could literally have drunk port from this glass

    An example. £35. That’s the price of a nice but utterly generic, noom-less Riedel wine-goblet from John Lewis

    https://ebay.us/m/lTcm5k

    There's too much stuff in the world.

    The problem is that Rachel from Accounts will get into even more trouble if we stop buying the new shiny and instead reuse the old noomy.

    iPhones are one thing but a table is a table.

    I can't look at a made object without thinking about the effort and/or materials that have gone into making it. Even pieces of chinese tat knocked off on a production line. I hate discarding that effort unless there really isn't any further use for it.

    The effort to make a glass in 1750 must have been orders of magnitude greater than the effort to make a generic John Lewis one, so I'd take the 1750 one every time.
    Is there any issue with the very high lead oxide content ?
    I've never really seen a satisfactorily definitive answer to that.

    PB chemists ?
    Very quick scan suggests taking care and not being pregnant. It's probably ok as an odd treat but I'm not sure I'd use it everyday. The really important bit is not to store liquids in leaded glassware as leaching will occur over time, so the longer there is contact the worse it will be. So a leaded decanter is far worse than the odd drink from a leaded glass.
    I looked into this when I got into this antiques stuff - quite recently. I was tempted by antique silver tea pots (also cheap) but they really are a bit iffy. And potentially toxic. Unless maybe you can get an amazing perfect flawless example

    However the danger from lead glass is, in practise, absolutely minimal. I saw one estimate that said “you probably ingest more lead in one day living in london than a week of drinking wine from a Georgian glass” - lead piping is more the risk, these days, than air

    A modest danger might arise if you left wine for weeks in a glass or stored it for months in a decanter. Surprisingly, that’s not my style
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,104
    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,800
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    In this article it states that Natural England were the ones who objected to the application: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd18my2e31qo
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,446
    So if you’re a migrant on ILR and worked payed taxes and get ill then zero help.

    If you’re a Brit and done bugger all then you get paid . Instead of overhauling the ILR reform our non-contributory system.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,548
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    I don't know who they are, but the shit cancellation of the brilliant kite festival was well-publicised.

    Some links:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd18my2e31qo
    https://www.royston-crow.co.uk/news/24277847.royston-kite-festival-cancelled-government-concerns/

    NE don't seem to care about people's dogs shi**ing all over the place.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,218

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    I don't know who they are, but the shit cancellation of the brilliant kite festival was well-publicised.

    Some links:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd18my2e31qo
    https://www.royston-crow.co.uk/news/24277847.royston-kite-festival-cancelled-government-concerns/

    NE don't seem to care about people's dogs shi**ing all over the place.
    Dr Lawrence Newport.

    Likes - Renewable energy
    Dislikes - XL bullies.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,456
    edited September 22

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charlie Kirk’s widow Erika, speaking at his memorial yesterday.

    https://x.com/tpusa/status/1969944725454192767

    My husband, Charlie. He wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life. That young man. That young man on the cross. Our Savior said, "Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do." That man. That young man. I forgive him. I forgive him because it was what Christ did in his. What Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love and always love.

    Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us.

    Its a rather a self-righteous, hypocritical love though isn't it, given that according to their theology they believe most of their persecutors are destined for eternal torment in hell.
    No, I get the impression (FWIW) that she's genuine, though I have a very different world view.
    The rest of the event was... somewhat different.
    I'm sure she was genuine and she believes all the 'love thy enemy' and 'salvation through Christ' evangelism.

    But that evangelism also believes that those who haven't turned to Jesus are destined for eternal torment.

    So her husband's killer gets a place in heaven if he 'discovers Jesus' while kind, moral, helpful people go to hell merely because they have the wrong or no religion.

    I'm not an admirer of 'salvationist' beliefs.
    Virtuous non believers who don't believe won't go to hell, they go to purgatory until they find salvation through Christ, certainly on RC doctrine.

    Only those who actively reject Christ and embraced evil and the Devil and all his works go to hell
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,640

    ...

    Ivan Ronaldson, Real Tennis pro at clubs in Britain, France and the US, developing many future stars
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2025/09/19/ivan-ronaldson-real-tennis-hampton-court-prince-edward/ (£££)

    I'm not suggesting you read this obituary that I mention only to propose a new class distinction. Now that our great public schools have abolished flogging and fagging, you can tell a school is posh if it offers ‘real tennis’ as a sport.

    A great public school is only worthy of the name if it has a beagle pack.
    And compulsory sodomy.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,492
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    They seem all a bit Dominic Cummimgs / Reform / GB News / Ban XL Bullies:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/looking-growths-lawrence-newport-death-threats-dominic-cummings-beating-blockers
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,695
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    The story seems to be a year old:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd18my2e31qo

    But, AFAICS, it was cancelled again this year.

    I suspect the reason stuff like this is trending is the massive watering down of the government's planning reforms, intended to speed development, which are now unlikely to achieve much at all.
This discussion has been closed.