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Labour’s little local difficulties: The Welsh edition – politicalbetting.com

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  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,264
    Someone mentioned the World Championships (Athletics) earlier. GB have three Scots in the 1500 which goes off at 14.20.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/live/cx2jld37kkxt

    Could be bloody good race, if you can tear yourself away from the beer match in Ireland.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,598
    edited 1:23PM

    Someone mentioned the World Championships (Athletics) earlier. GB have three Scots in the 1500 which goes off at 14.20.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/live/cx2jld37kkxt

    Could be bloody good race, if you can tear yourself away from the beer match in Ireland.

    Running, that's not a proper sport ;-)

    I once went to watch the World Cross Country...the guys went off and I thought oh they are sprinting to get into position, they have quite a sprint for long distance runners....15 minutes later...oh no that is just their long term running pace.

    Most people could train for years and doubt they would keep up even for a few seconds.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,598
    Josh Kerr gone.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,792

    Josh Kerr gone.

    Scotland’s Josh Kerr.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,703

    Someone mentioned the World Championships (Athletics) earlier. GB have three Scots in the 1500 which goes off at 14.20.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/live/cx2jld37kkxt

    Could be bloody good race, if you can tear yourself away from the beer match in Ireland.

    Running, that's not a proper sport ;-)

    I once went to watch the World Cross Country...the guys went off and I thought oh they are sprinting to get into position, they have quite a sprint for long distance runners....15 minutes later...oh no that is just their long term running pace.

    Most people could train for years and doubt they would keep up even for a few seconds.
    I can't watch cross country. Too many bad memories, as a mild asthmatic, from school.

    Son-in-law does it though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,936

    Someone mentioned the World Championships (Athletics) earlier. GB have three Scots in the 1500 which goes off at 14.20.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/live/cx2jld37kkxt

    Could be bloody good race, if you can tear yourself away from the beer match in Ireland.

    Running, that's not a proper sport ;-)

    I once went to watch the World Cross Country...the guys went off and I thought oh they are sprinting to get into position, they have quite a sprint for long distance runners....15 minutes later...oh no that is just their long term running pace.

    Most people could train for years and doubt they would keep up even for a few seconds.
    As might have been mentioned before, the marathon world record is 17s/100m.

    Which is totally and utterly crazy when you think about it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,598
    edited 1:30PM
    Sandpit said:

    Someone mentioned the World Championships (Athletics) earlier. GB have three Scots in the 1500 which goes off at 14.20.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/live/cx2jld37kkxt

    Could be bloody good race, if you can tear yourself away from the beer match in Ireland.

    Running, that's not a proper sport ;-)

    I once went to watch the World Cross Country...the guys went off and I thought oh they are sprinting to get into position, they have quite a sprint for long distance runners....15 minutes later...oh no that is just their long term running pace.

    Most people could train for years and doubt they would keep up even for a few seconds.
    As might have been mentioned before, the marathon world record is 17s/100m.

    Which is totally and utterly crazy when you think about it.
    How LONG Can I Run At Eliud Kipchoge's Record PACE?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkBmYQucyMs

    Watch when he tries to do the 400m pace at the end of the video !!!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,792
    edited 1:29PM
    That T20 world record England set last week might be broken by Ireland today.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,264

    That T20 world record England set last week might be broken by Ireland today.

    Might take a bit from here with 6 overs to go...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,936

    Sandpit said:

    Someone mentioned the World Championships (Athletics) earlier. GB have three Scots in the 1500 which goes off at 14.20.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/live/cx2jld37kkxt

    Could be bloody good race, if you can tear yourself away from the beer match in Ireland.

    Running, that's not a proper sport ;-)

    I once went to watch the World Cross Country...the guys went off and I thought oh they are sprinting to get into position, they have quite a sprint for long distance runners....15 minutes later...oh no that is just their long term running pace.

    Most people could train for years and doubt they would keep up even for a few seconds.
    As might have been mentioned before, the marathon world record is 17s/100m.

    Which is totally and utterly crazy when you think about it.
    How LONG Can I Run At Eliud Kipchoge's Record PACE?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkBmYQucyMs

    Watch when he tries to do the 400m pace at the end of the video !!!
    You can’t even go to a leisure centre and pick up people who can do 400m at that pace, 68 seconds.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41WC1hH8WX0

    I could probably just about do the 100m in 17s, but would very quickly fall off after that.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,381
    Sandpit said:

    Someone mentioned the World Championships (Athletics) earlier. GB have three Scots in the 1500 which goes off at 14.20.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/live/cx2jld37kkxt

    Could be bloody good race, if you can tear yourself away from the beer match in Ireland.

    Running, that's not a proper sport ;-)

    I once went to watch the World Cross Country...the guys went off and I thought oh they are sprinting to get into position, they have quite a sprint for long distance runners....15 minutes later...oh no that is just their long term running pace.

    Most people could train for years and doubt they would keep up even for a few seconds.
    As might have been mentioned before, the marathon world record is 17s/100m.

    Which is totally and utterly crazy when you think about it.
    Athletics is the ultimate sporting endeavour in many ways. It's a shame it goes under the radar most of the time compared to other major sports.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,264
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Someone mentioned the World Championships (Athletics) earlier. GB have three Scots in the 1500 which goes off at 14.20.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/live/cx2jld37kkxt

    Could be bloody good race, if you can tear yourself away from the beer match in Ireland.

    Running, that's not a proper sport ;-)

    I once went to watch the World Cross Country...the guys went off and I thought oh they are sprinting to get into position, they have quite a sprint for long distance runners....15 minutes later...oh no that is just their long term running pace.

    Most people could train for years and doubt they would keep up even for a few seconds.
    As might have been mentioned before, the marathon world record is 17s/100m.

    Which is totally and utterly crazy when you think about it.
    Athletics is the ultimate sporting endeavour in many ways. It's a shame it goes under the radar most of the time compared to other major sports.
    And oddly its one that you can see fairly often on BBC. Diamond league meets are often on.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,598
    edited 1:44PM

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Someone mentioned the World Championships (Athletics) earlier. GB have three Scots in the 1500 which goes off at 14.20.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/live/cx2jld37kkxt

    Could be bloody good race, if you can tear yourself away from the beer match in Ireland.

    Running, that's not a proper sport ;-)

    I once went to watch the World Cross Country...the guys went off and I thought oh they are sprinting to get into position, they have quite a sprint for long distance runners....15 minutes later...oh no that is just their long term running pace.

    Most people could train for years and doubt they would keep up even for a few seconds.
    As might have been mentioned before, the marathon world record is 17s/100m.

    Which is totally and utterly crazy when you think about it.
    Athletics is the ultimate sporting endeavour in many ways. It's a shame it goes under the radar most of the time compared to other major sports.
    And oddly its one that you can see fairly often on BBC. Diamond league meets are often on.
    Its a tricky sport to get excitement into. Outside of the 100m, on the camera you don't really have any comprehension of how fast they are really moving and so many events, 1 lap, 2 laps, 4 laps, lap over the hurdles....its all the same to the casual viewer.

    T20 cricket you didn't need to really know what 90 mph is like, you have different types of batters playing different shots and a wide array of different types of bowlers bowling different types of balls.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    “This is a shocker. James Reed , CEO of the recruiter Reed, said on Times Radio the UK is in the grip of a graduate jobs crisis noting three years ago he had 188,000 graduate jobs on his books and today it was 55,000.

    He encouraged middle class families to encourage their student kids to take up manual labour”

    *cough* universities

    *cough* doomed

    There are still going to be university courses needed for those 55,000 who will do graduate jobs and the amount of manual labour needed isn't increasing much, so that is just a recipe for more unemployed and a higher benefits bill unless AI creates new jobs
    Has anybody set out how AI actually creates new jobs? Unless it is in fact-checking the bullshit it spews out?
    It's going to hugely reduce the number of available jobs, making a few people very rich and the rest of us poorer.
    If it does and does not create enough new ones to replace them, the surge of voters to political extremes of left and right will just increase yet further
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,224
    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,598
    edited 1:48PM
    I am sorry but Sam Curran isn't an international level bowler. He can have his moon ball trick, but his top end pace just is so slow for top level batsman.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,264

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Someone mentioned the World Championships (Athletics) earlier. GB have three Scots in the 1500 which goes off at 14.20.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/live/cx2jld37kkxt

    Could be bloody good race, if you can tear yourself away from the beer match in Ireland.

    Running, that's not a proper sport ;-)

    I once went to watch the World Cross Country...the guys went off and I thought oh they are sprinting to get into position, they have quite a sprint for long distance runners....15 minutes later...oh no that is just their long term running pace.

    Most people could train for years and doubt they would keep up even for a few seconds.
    As might have been mentioned before, the marathon world record is 17s/100m.

    Which is totally and utterly crazy when you think about it.
    Athletics is the ultimate sporting endeavour in many ways. It's a shame it goes under the radar most of the time compared to other major sports.
    And oddly its one that you can see fairly often on BBC. Diamond league meets are often on.
    Its a tricky sport to get excitement into. Outside of the 100m, on the camera you don't really have any comprehension of how fast they are really moving and so many events, 1 lap, 2 laps, 4 laps, lap over the hurdles....its all the same to the casual viewer.

    T20 cricket you didn't need to really know what 90 mph is like, you have different types of batters playing different shots and a wide array of different types of bowlers bowling different types of balls.
    I once went to a meet in Auckland where the highlight was going to be the 100 m with Frankie Fredericks. Last event of the evening, of course. And then, of course, its over in the blink of an eye. And that was that. Off you go folks.

    I'd argue the 100m is worse in person than on TV...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,264

    I am sorry but Sam Curran isn't an international level bowler. He can have his moon ball trick, but his top end pace just is so slow for top level batsman.

    And yet he keeps getting picked. Its an odd one.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,598
    edited 1:49PM

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Someone mentioned the World Championships (Athletics) earlier. GB have three Scots in the 1500 which goes off at 14.20.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/live/cx2jld37kkxt

    Could be bloody good race, if you can tear yourself away from the beer match in Ireland.

    Running, that's not a proper sport ;-)

    I once went to watch the World Cross Country...the guys went off and I thought oh they are sprinting to get into position, they have quite a sprint for long distance runners....15 minutes later...oh no that is just their long term running pace.

    Most people could train for years and doubt they would keep up even for a few seconds.
    As might have been mentioned before, the marathon world record is 17s/100m.

    Which is totally and utterly crazy when you think about it.
    Athletics is the ultimate sporting endeavour in many ways. It's a shame it goes under the radar most of the time compared to other major sports.
    And oddly its one that you can see fairly often on BBC. Diamond league meets are often on.
    Its a tricky sport to get excitement into. Outside of the 100m, on the camera you don't really have any comprehension of how fast they are really moving and so many events, 1 lap, 2 laps, 4 laps, lap over the hurdles....its all the same to the casual viewer.

    T20 cricket you didn't need to really know what 90 mph is like, you have different types of batters playing different shots and a wide array of different types of bowlers bowling different types of balls.
    I once went to a meet in Auckland where the highlight was going to be the 100 m with Frankie Fredericks. Last event of the evening, of course. And then, of course, its over in the blink of an eye. And that was that. Off you go folks.

    I'd argue the 100m is worse in person than on TV...
    Like watching outdoor cycling in person....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,598
    edited 1:51PM

    I am sorry but Sam Curran isn't an international level bowler. He can have his moon ball trick, but his top end pace just is so slow for top level batsman.

    And yet he keeps getting picked. Its an odd one.
    It is because his batting has improved to the extent he is basically a front liner for T20, particularly his 6 hitting and he is a very good fielder. And England love to "bat deep".

    England also pick the Overton brothers as well, and they ain't top level bowlers either.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,224

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Talk about virtue signaling. Reform really are the woke right aren't they.
    I wonder if he kicked off like this when Melissa Hortman was assassinated?
    Or indeed when Héctor Enrique Olivares was assassinated? (He was an Argentinian MP killed in 2019. Argentina and Wales have more historical links to each other than Charlie Kirk and Wales do!)
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,341

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,224
    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,957
    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    Certainly on economics, his policies are pretty much the IMF playbook for restoring economic reality.

    As opposed the the previous Peronist, populist money tree stuff - note that Peronism is FacismLite (TM).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,957

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Among other things, that area is a hot bed for the Peronists.

    Think the of the people who demanded that spending in Greece should be unchanged. After the crisis started. Because Will of The People.

    Millie is running on the plan of pain upfront, win the next election on the economy. Again, conventional, rather than populist politics.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,936

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Someone mentioned the World Championships (Athletics) earlier. GB have three Scots in the 1500 which goes off at 14.20.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/live/cx2jld37kkxt

    Could be bloody good race, if you can tear yourself away from the beer match in Ireland.

    Running, that's not a proper sport ;-)

    I once went to watch the World Cross Country...the guys went off and I thought oh they are sprinting to get into position, they have quite a sprint for long distance runners....15 minutes later...oh no that is just their long term running pace.

    Most people could train for years and doubt they would keep up even for a few seconds.
    As might have been mentioned before, the marathon world record is 17s/100m.

    Which is totally and utterly crazy when you think about it.
    Athletics is the ultimate sporting endeavour in many ways. It's a shame it goes under the radar most of the time compared to other major sports.
    And oddly its one that you can see fairly often on BBC. Diamond league meets are often on.
    Its a tricky sport to get excitement into. Outside of the 100m, on the camera you don't really have any comprehension of how fast they are really moving and so many events, 1 lap, 2 laps, 4 laps, lap over the hurdles....its all the same to the casual viewer.

    T20 cricket you didn't need to really know what 90 mph is like, you have different types of batters playing different shots and a wide array of different types of bowlers bowling different types of balls.
    I once went to a meet in Auckland where the highlight was going to be the 100 m with Frankie Fredericks. Last event of the evening, of course. And then, of course, its over in the blink of an eye. And that was that. Off you go folks.

    I'd argue the 100m is worse in person than on TV...
    This was a funny example.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkBwt8LRNqo

    School sports day in Jamaica, where one of the mums in the parents’ race happens to be an Olympic champion. Yes, that’s a 60m race at what for SAFP is a warmup pace.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,192

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    Certainly on economics, his policies are pretty much the IMF playbook for restoring economic reality.

    As opposed the the previous Peronist, populist money tree stuff - note that Peronism is FacismLite (TM).
    Can’t be or that L**n would be wanking endlessly over it.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,298

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Someone mentioned the World Championships (Athletics) earlier. GB have three Scots in the 1500 which goes off at 14.20.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/live/cx2jld37kkxt

    Could be bloody good race, if you can tear yourself away from the beer match in Ireland.

    Running, that's not a proper sport ;-)

    I once went to watch the World Cross Country...the guys went off and I thought oh they are sprinting to get into position, they have quite a sprint for long distance runners....15 minutes later...oh no that is just their long term running pace.

    Most people could train for years and doubt they would keep up even for a few seconds.
    As might have been mentioned before, the marathon world record is 17s/100m.

    Which is totally and utterly crazy when you think about it.
    Athletics is the ultimate sporting endeavour in many ways. It's a shame it goes under the radar most of the time compared to other major sports.
    And oddly its one that you can see fairly often on BBC. Diamond league meets are often on.
    Its a tricky sport to get excitement into. Outside of the 100m, on the camera you don't really have any comprehension of how fast they are really moving and so many events, 1 lap, 2 laps, 4 laps, lap over the hurdles....its all the same to the casual viewer.

    T20 cricket you didn't need to really know what 90 mph is like, you have different types of batters playing different shots and a wide array of different types of bowlers bowling different types of balls.
    I once went to a meet in Auckland where the highlight was going to be the 100 m with Frankie Fredericks. Last event of the evening, of course. And then, of course, its over in the blink of an eye. And that was that. Off you go folks.

    I'd argue the 100m is worse in person than on TV...
    Like watching outdoor cycling in person....
    That can be quite fun if:

    a) The road is closed so you can ride it in advance of the race along with everyone else as a critical mass of sorts
    b) You choose a hill where the riders aren't just "pootling" along in a peleton so you can pick them out individually

    Obviously you are very unlikely to see anything much happen, but that's not the point.

    If you watch from a point on a main road then obviously you won't see anything other than a blur.

    The Tour de Yorkshire was quite good fun and it is sad that it has gone - mainly because no individual town can afford to host it.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,341

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,497
    "TfL suppressed report showing LTNs don’t cut car use

    Sadiq Khan and his mayoral officials have spent years saying low-traffic neighbourhoods reduce traffic. Emails show research to the contrary was suppressed" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/london/article/mayor-sadiq-khan-low-traffic-driving-report-2vv2329lv
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,855
    edited 2:14PM
    Have we done Mr Trump's $15bn defamation action against the New York Times?

    TL:DR He's likely to be handed his backside on a plate again, as he was by the WSJ over "The Birthday Book Does Not Exist".

    This is a commentary and look at his writ, which is full of self-puffery not a legal case. It also includes commentary on Mandy's embarrassment of SKS, plus on Kash Patel (Head of CIA) being Trump's scapegoat and completely losing it in a House committee, Charlie Kirk - and I think Trump's emerging revenge, and the Fox news commentator who said just give mentally ill homeless a lethal injection.

    Quite long, but decent wallpaper for the afternoon. It's Popok from Meidastouch, so anti-Trump, but also good legal commentary doing a summary of the last week.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjEwN8Oa_o4
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,598
    Metropolitan Police staff are to be balloted for strike action in a dispute over pay, with a union claiming that civilian workers in the Met are treated as "second-class citizens".

    The Public and Commercial Services (PCS) union said about 6,500 of its members will vote in the coming weeks on whether to launch a campaign of industrial action.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c98ew3djez8o
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,855
    edited 2:18PM
    Andy_JS said:

    "TfL suppressed report showing LTNs don’t cut car use

    Sadiq Khan and his mayoral officials have spent years saying low-traffic neighbourhoods reduce traffic. Emails show research to the contrary was suppressed" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/london/article/mayor-sadiq-khan-low-traffic-driving-report-2vv2329lv

    That's the key opposition argument "but they cut traffic" gone, then :smile: .

    I'll keep an ear open for that, and to see how it relates to the other report that say something different.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,957

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    Certainly on economics, his policies are pretty much the IMF playbook for restoring economic reality.

    As opposed the the previous Peronist, populist money tree stuff - note that Peronism is FacismLite (TM).
    Can’t be or that L**n would be wanking endlessly over it.
    Peronism? As in Peron? Corrupt corporatism + populism + “the enemies within” + dictatorship?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,936
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "TfL suppressed report showing LTNs don’t cut car use

    Sadiq Khan and his mayoral officials have spent years saying low-traffic neighbourhoods reduce traffic. Emails show research to the contrary was suppressed" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/london/article/mayor-sadiq-khan-low-traffic-driving-report-2vv2329lv

    That's the key opposition argument "but they cut traffic" gone, then :smile: .

    I'll keep an ear open for that, and to see how it relates to the other report that say something different.
    IIRC many of these in London are not being done with physical blockades, but with signs and cameras generating significant revenue for the councils involved.

    A cynic might say that it’s getting close to a deliberate entrapment of out-of-towners, and that the signage laws were not intended for such inner city use.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,855
    edited 2:30PM
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "TfL suppressed report showing LTNs don’t cut car use

    Sadiq Khan and his mayoral officials have spent years saying low-traffic neighbourhoods reduce traffic. Emails show research to the contrary was suppressed" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/london/article/mayor-sadiq-khan-low-traffic-driving-report-2vv2329lv

    That's the key opposition argument "but they cut traffic" gone, then :smile: .

    I'll keep an ear open for that, and to see how it relates to the other report that say something different.
    Reading the piece, it seems to be creating cyclists ex nihilo:

    Transport for London, which is under the mayor’s control, chose not to publish the Travel and Places study after it found the traffic relocation schemes helped to increase cycling but failed to encourage people to drive less or walk more.

    I think there will be a backstory, perhaps around the precise use of "suppressed" vs "did not promote" and statistically inconclusive changes - rather than focus on the benefits of less through traffic and perhaps safer roads. We shall see.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,843
    edited 2:36PM
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "TfL suppressed report showing LTNs don’t cut car use

    Sadiq Khan and his mayoral officials have spent years saying low-traffic neighbourhoods reduce traffic. Emails show research to the contrary was suppressed" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/london/article/mayor-sadiq-khan-low-traffic-driving-report-2vv2329lv

    That's the key opposition argument "but they cut traffic" gone, then :smile: .

    I'll keep an ear open for that, and to see how it relates to the other report that say something different.
    It's an interesting finding - the metric is "minutes of past-week car use". So trips could have fallen even as time per trip increased. That might explain the increased number (or trips?) of cyclists?

    How does it match up with traffic data? Anyway, I'm going to have fun using this as evidence that LTNs do not force people out of their cars at all, which is going to confuse a lot of those opposed to then.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,855
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "TfL suppressed report showing LTNs don’t cut car use

    Sadiq Khan and his mayoral officials have spent years saying low-traffic neighbourhoods reduce traffic. Emails show research to the contrary was suppressed" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/london/article/mayor-sadiq-khan-low-traffic-driving-report-2vv2329lv

    That's the key opposition argument "but they cut traffic" gone, then :smile: .

    I'll keep an ear open for that, and to see how it relates to the other report that say something different.
    IIRC many of these in London are not being done with physical blockades, but with signs and cameras generating significant revenue for the councils involved.

    A cynic might say that it’s getting close to a deliberate entrapment of out-of-towners, and that the signage laws were not intended for such inner city use.
    That's an interesting point. There are also taxi exemptions, which to me (admittedly cynical) eye seem to be framed to allow taxis at all times, even when empty.

    There's also a point about pollution reduction, and preventing asthma etc cases. But that will overlap with ULEZ so will be tricky to tease out.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,497
    Jake Wightman wins silver in men's 1500 metres. Almost gold.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,032

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Among other things, that area is a hot bed for the Peronists.

    Think the of the people who demanded that spending in Greece should be unchanged. After the crisis started. Because Will of The People.

    Millie is running on the plan of pain upfront, win the next election on the economy. Again, conventional, rather than populist politics.
    I'd assumed he was a libertarian with a theatrical bent.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,855
    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "TfL suppressed report showing LTNs don’t cut car use

    Sadiq Khan and his mayoral officials have spent years saying low-traffic neighbourhoods reduce traffic. Emails show research to the contrary was suppressed" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/london/article/mayor-sadiq-khan-low-traffic-driving-report-2vv2329lv

    That's the key opposition argument "but they cut traffic" gone, then :smile: .

    I'll keep an ear open for that, and to see how it relates to the other report that say something different.
    It's an interesting finding - the metric is "minutes of past-week car use". So trips could have fallen even as time per trip increased. That might explain the increased number (or trips?) of cyclists?

    How does it match up with traffic data? Anyway, I'm going to have fun using this as evidence that LTNs do not force people out of their cars at all, which is going to confuse a lot of those opposed to then.
    I've asked the question on People Powered Streets, which has a lot of key people on the forum, and there may have been commentary at Active Travel Cafe last night - which will have the vodcast out later in the week.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,627
    I remember well when Southam Observer was desperately trying to make Theresa May being ‘hand in hand’ with Donald Trump a thing in 2017. I wonder if same goes for Yvette Cooper now

    UPDATE: Yvette clung to President Trump’s hand like a sycophantic barnacle for 11 SECONDS when he stepped off Air Force One last night. Time’s a healer!

    https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1968265100684640724?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,598
    edited 2:42PM
    isam said:

    I remember well when Southam Observer was desperately trying to make Theresa May being ‘hand in hand’ with Donald Trump a thing in 2017. I wonder if same goes for Yvette Cooper now

    UPDATE: Yvette clung to President Trump’s hand like a sycophantic barnacle for 11 SECONDS when he stepped off Air Force One last night. Time’s a healer!

    https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1968265100684640724?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    There are a lot of people who were giving it the big'un about how Trump visit in 2017 must be stopped / boycotted, who erhhh changed their tune now.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,905

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Among other things, that area is a hot bed for the Peronists.

    Think the of the people who demanded that spending in Greece should be unchanged. After the crisis started. Because Will of The People.

    Millie is running on the plan of pain upfront, win the next election on the economy. Again, conventional, rather than populist politics.
    I'd assumed he was a libertarian with a theatrical bent.
    He's the most impressive politician in the planet at the moment.

    He gets lumped in with turds like Trump, mainly by people who dislike anyone right of Corbyn, but he's actually delivering results.

    Some seriously impressive results - and not via easy choices, but by making the hard choices.

    The polar opposite of populism.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,598
    edited 2:51PM

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Among other things, that area is a hot bed for the Peronists.

    Think the of the people who demanded that spending in Greece should be unchanged. After the crisis started. Because Will of The People.

    Millie is running on the plan of pain upfront, win the next election on the economy. Again, conventional, rather than populist politics.
    I'd assumed he was a libertarian with a theatrical bent.
    He's the most impressive politician in the planet at the moment.

    He gets lumped in with turds like Trump, mainly by people who dislike anyone right of Corbyn, but he's actually delivering results.

    Some seriously impressive results - and not via easy choices, but by making the hard choices.

    The polar opposite of populism.
    Also despite the publicity stunts with the chainsaw, I watched a 2hr interview with him where he was serious and talked economics, he gave the sort of in depth thoughtful knowledgeable answers that only a proper economist (not fake one like Rachel from accounts) could give. He is of course a professor in economics.

    To lump him with Trump or Bolsonaro is lazy and nonsense. Trump is the anti-academic president.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,574
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "TfL suppressed report showing LTNs don’t cut car use

    Sadiq Khan and his mayoral officials have spent years saying low-traffic neighbourhoods reduce traffic. Emails show research to the contrary was suppressed" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/london/article/mayor-sadiq-khan-low-traffic-driving-report-2vv2329lv

    That's the key opposition argument "but they cut traffic" gone, then :smile: .

    I'll keep an ear open for that, and to see how it relates to the other report that say something different.
    IIRC many of these in London are not being done with physical blockades, but with signs and cameras generating significant revenue for the councils involved.

    A cynic might say that it’s getting close to a deliberate entrapment of out-of-towners, and that the signage laws were not intended for such inner city use.
    That's an interesting point. There are also taxi exemptions, which to me (admittedly cynical) eye seem to be framed to allow taxis at all times, even when empty.

    There's also a point about pollution reduction, and preventing asthma etc cases. But that will overlap with ULEZ so will be tricky to tease out.
    They may have moved away from physical obstructions because they are vandalised and have to be replaced regularly. Not that traffic cameras are cheap when they're vandalised.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,128

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Among other things, that area is a hot bed for the Peronists.

    Think the of the people who demanded that spending in Greece should be unchanged. After the crisis started. Because Will of The People.

    Millie is running on the plan of pain upfront, win the next election on the economy. Again, conventional, rather than populist politics.
    I'd assumed he was a libertarian with a theatrical bent.
    He's the most impressive politician in the planet at the moment.

    He gets lumped in with turds like Trump, mainly by people who dislike anyone right of Corbyn, but he's actually delivering results.

    Some seriously impressive results - and not via easy choices, but by making the hard choices.

    The polar opposite of populism.
    Also despite the publicity stunts with the chainsaw, I watched a 2hr interview with him where he was serious and talked economics, he gave the sort of in depth thoughtful knowledgeable answers that only a proper economist (not fake one like Rachel from accounts) could give. He is of course a professor in economics.

    To lump him with Trump or Bolsonaro is lazy and nonsense. Trump is the anti-academic president.
    Agreed, he’s a cut above those oafs.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,598
    Interesting decision to send in Bethall and Ahmed ahead of usually T20 openers Banton and Jacks.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,873

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Among other things, that area is a hot bed for the Peronists.

    Think the of the people who demanded that spending in Greece should be unchanged. After the crisis started. Because Will of The People.

    Millie is running on the plan of pain upfront, win the next election on the economy. Again, conventional, rather than populist politics.
    I'd assumed he was a libertarian with a theatrical bent.
    He's the most impressive politician in the planet at the moment.

    He gets lumped in with turds like Trump, mainly by people who dislike anyone right of Corbyn, but he's actually delivering results.

    Some seriously impressive results - and not via easy choices, but by making the hard choices.

    The polar opposite of populism.
    Also despite the publicity stunts with the chainsaw, I watched a 2hr interview with him where he was serious and talked economics, he gave the sort of in depth thoughtful knowledgeable answers that only a proper economist (not fake one like Rachel from accounts) could give. He is of course a professor in economics.

    To lump him with Trump or Bolsonaro is lazy and nonsense. Trump is the anti-academic president.
    Milei is a climate change denier, like Trump and Bolsonaro. It's practically the hallmark of the populist.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,703

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Among other things, that area is a hot bed for the Peronists.

    Think the of the people who demanded that spending in Greece should be unchanged. After the crisis started. Because Will of The People.

    Millie is running on the plan of pain upfront, win the next election on the economy. Again, conventional, rather than populist politics.
    I'd assumed he was a libertarian with a theatrical bent.
    He's the most impressive politician in the planet at the moment.

    He gets lumped in with turds like Trump, mainly by people who dislike anyone right of Corbyn, but he's actually delivering results.

    Some seriously impressive results - and not via easy choices, but by making the hard choices.

    The polar opposite of populism.
    Also despite the publicity stunts with the chainsaw, I watched a 2hr interview with him where he was serious and talked economics, he gave the sort of in depth thoughtful knowledgeable answers that only a proper economist (not fake one like Rachel from accounts) could give. He is of course a professor in economics.

    To lump him with Trump or Bolsonaro is lazy and nonsense. Trump is the anti-academic president.
    Does anyone know how Trump got a degree? Do they have classifications thereof in the US; if so, what was his?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,598
    edited 3:13PM

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Among other things, that area is a hot bed for the Peronists.

    Think the of the people who demanded that spending in Greece should be unchanged. After the crisis started. Because Will of The People.

    Millie is running on the plan of pain upfront, win the next election on the economy. Again, conventional, rather than populist politics.
    I'd assumed he was a libertarian with a theatrical bent.
    He's the most impressive politician in the planet at the moment.

    He gets lumped in with turds like Trump, mainly by people who dislike anyone right of Corbyn, but he's actually delivering results.

    Some seriously impressive results - and not via easy choices, but by making the hard choices.

    The polar opposite of populism.
    Also despite the publicity stunts with the chainsaw, I watched a 2hr interview with him where he was serious and talked economics, he gave the sort of in depth thoughtful knowledgeable answers that only a proper economist (not fake one like Rachel from accounts) could give. He is of course a professor in economics.

    To lump him with Trump or Bolsonaro is lazy and nonsense. Trump is the anti-academic president.
    Does anyone know how Trump got a degree? Do they have classifications thereof in the US; if so, what was his?
    He didn't graduate with honours, so basically he did crap.

    Also, lots of people peak at different ages / levels of academic achievement. Boris peaked in his teenager because he was very good with words at a young age and topped out at university undergrad level, but still walks around like he is an intellectual giant.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,843
    Dopermean said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "TfL suppressed report showing LTNs don’t cut car use

    Sadiq Khan and his mayoral officials have spent years saying low-traffic neighbourhoods reduce traffic. Emails show research to the contrary was suppressed" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/london/article/mayor-sadiq-khan-low-traffic-driving-report-2vv2329lv

    That's the key opposition argument "but they cut traffic" gone, then :smile: .

    I'll keep an ear open for that, and to see how it relates to the other report that say something different.
    IIRC many of these in London are not being done with physical blockades, but with signs and cameras generating significant revenue for the councils involved.

    A cynic might say that it’s getting close to a deliberate entrapment of out-of-towners, and that the signage laws were not intended for such inner city use.
    That's an interesting point. There are also taxi exemptions, which to me (admittedly cynical) eye seem to be framed to allow taxis at all times, even when empty.

    There's also a point about pollution reduction, and preventing asthma etc cases. But that will overlap with ULEZ so will be tricky to tease out.
    They may have moved away from physical obstructions because they are vandalised and have to be replaced regularly. Not that traffic cameras are cheap when they're vandalised.
    I'd have thought physical obstructions were cheaper to repair tbh. Surely the main reading is maintaining access for emergency services, buses etc?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,273
    edited 3:13PM

    Interesting decision to send in Bethall and Ahmed ahead of usually T20 openers Banton and Jacks.

    They could send me and OldKingCole in and we'd see it home from here (no offence intended OKC!)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,792

    NEW THREAD

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,381

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    Certainly on economics, his policies are pretty much the IMF playbook for restoring economic reality.

    As opposed the the previous Peronist, populist money tree stuff - note that Peronism is FacismLite (TM).
    Can’t be or that L**n would be wanking endlessly over it.
    Peronism? As in Peron? Corrupt corporatism + populism + “the enemies within” + dictatorship?
    And a cult of personality. Hopeless for government but makes for a good musical.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,936
    Eabhal said:

    Dopermean said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "TfL suppressed report showing LTNs don’t cut car use

    Sadiq Khan and his mayoral officials have spent years saying low-traffic neighbourhoods reduce traffic. Emails show research to the contrary was suppressed" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/london/article/mayor-sadiq-khan-low-traffic-driving-report-2vv2329lv

    That's the key opposition argument "but they cut traffic" gone, then :smile: .

    I'll keep an ear open for that, and to see how it relates to the other report that say something different.
    IIRC many of these in London are not being done with physical blockades, but with signs and cameras generating significant revenue for the councils involved.

    A cynic might say that it’s getting close to a deliberate entrapment of out-of-towners, and that the signage laws were not intended for such inner city use.
    That's an interesting point. There are also taxi exemptions, which to me (admittedly cynical) eye seem to be framed to allow taxis at all times, even when empty.

    There's also a point about pollution reduction, and preventing asthma etc cases. But that will overlap with ULEZ so will be tricky to tease out.
    They may have moved away from physical obstructions because they are vandalised and have to be replaced regularly. Not that traffic cameras are cheap when they're vandalised.
    I'd have thought physical obstructions were cheaper to repair tbh. Surely the main reading is maintaining access for emergency services, buses etc?
    No. The whole point of the exercise is the revenue raising, the justification for the revenue-raising measures is the LTN playbook.
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