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First poll has Powell leading Phillipson by 17 points – politicalbetting.com

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  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,567

    HYUFD said:

    Like Burnham she needs to be an MP again to be a contender
    She needs to be an MP again.

    What is Rishi doing hanging around in Westminster?
    Well he did do us a big favour by managing to hold onto his own seat in what was an historic general election defeat for the party and for which he then apologised despite being handed a very poor hand by his predecessors Johnson and Truss, I suspect being the PM, Conservative party leader and a good constituency MP in a very safe seat at the time helped him hang on. And with the current polling I don't think that it would be wise for either the Conservatives or Labour to call unnecessary by-elections for internal party political reasons.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,821
    edited September 16

    Leon said:

    OMG they can’t even do THIS

    “The first deportation of a Channel migrant under Sir Keir Starmer’s “one in, one out” deal with France was cancelled at the last minute.

    The Telegraph understands that one migrant was due to be flown from Heathrow to Paris on an Air France passenger flight on Monday, but the flight was postponed amid protests by charities and threats of legal action.”

    It’s beyond surreal. They can’t fly one migrant to Paris, Business Class

    It was always going to be the way that there will be a load of legal challenges.
    They can't do it under the existing legislation. They have to start passing "notwithstanding..." acts to get around the existing protections. Otherwise they're iceskating uphill
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,600
    edited September 16
    I see Starmer was aware of emails but didn't think to ask what was in them. He really does take this keeping his desk empty very seriously.

    Also, the way PMs deny knowledge of goings on in #10, anybody would think it was the size of Apple HQ when in fact its bloody tiny set of offices.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,821

    I see Starmer was aware of emails but didn't think to ask what was in them. He really does take this keeping his desk empty very seriously.

    Also, the way PMs deny knowledge of goings on in #10, anybody would think it was the size of Apple HQ when in fact its bloody tiny set of offices.

    Um actually it's quite large, with corridors/doors linking it to Number 11 and the other building to the East whose name I've forgotten because it's 01:38am and my brain hurt.
  • HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    Hmmm.20% is 2000 positions.

    The leader of Derbyshire County Council has said the authority is "20% overstaffed" and he wants to cut jobs to make the council "lean and mean".
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0r0z1zkq4ko

    Reform's austerity in Derbyshire makes even the Coalition's from 2010-2015 look small fry by comparison
    Have they started insisting people write an email saying the five things they actually did this week?

    Monday – emptied bins
    Tuesday – emptied bins
    Wednesday – emptied bins
    Thursday – emptied bins
    Friday – my turn to drive dustcart
  • Why is somebody leaking private messages from 8 years ago now. Why was somebody leaking all about BIg Ange personal tax affairs.

    A lot of friendly fire going on and the Prince of Darkness I am sure isn't happy to have been discarded.

    Cynics might wonder if this Ovenden (Abbott) leak has a touch of the false flag or at least dead cat about it. Bloke (sorry, top Starmer aide and key ally) who was going to leave after conference has been forced out a couple of weeks early.
  • viewcode said:

    I see Starmer was aware of emails but didn't think to ask what was in them. He really does take this keeping his desk empty very seriously.

    Also, the way PMs deny knowledge of goings on in #10, anybody would think it was the size of Apple HQ when in fact its bloody tiny set of offices.

    Um actually it's quite large, with corridors/doors linking it to Number 11 and the other building to the East whose name I've forgotten because it's 01:38am and my brain hurt.
    And most of those offices exist in order to keep things away from the Prime Minister's desk. One of the criticisms of Gordon Brown was that he tried to be over everything which turned his desk into a chokepoint.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,936

    viewcode said:

    I see Starmer was aware of emails but didn't think to ask what was in them. He really does take this keeping his desk empty very seriously.

    Also, the way PMs deny knowledge of goings on in #10, anybody would think it was the size of Apple HQ when in fact its bloody tiny set of offices.

    Um actually it's quite large, with corridors/doors linking it to Number 11 and the other building to the East whose name I've forgotten because it's 01:38am and my brain hurt.
    And most of those offices exist in order to keep things away from the Prime Minister's desk. One of the criticisms of Gordon Brown was that he tried to be over everything which turned his desk into a chokepoint.
    It’s a problem when the PM is trying to micromanage every department, but it’s also a problem when the general impression is that at best the PM hasn’t got a clue what’s going on in government, or at worst he appears to be actively ensuring he’s not being informed about whatever next week’s scandal might turn out to be.

    There’s clearly people inside government coming for him, he must know that a key week for international diplomacy in about to get undermined by the Mandelson story, if only because the US media are going to want to use Epstein as a stick with which to beat Trump.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,092

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Give me fucking strength.

    It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.

    So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".

    This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
    They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.

    So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
    The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.

    Including for those who actually are that.

    Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
    It seems to be ending with radical leftists shooting people at the moment. Remember, words are violence and shooting Nazis is peaceful.
    Melissa Hortman and her husband were shot by a Radical Rightist three months ago.
    They don't count. They're of the left, and therefore MaxPB's enemy.

    The thing is though, as a member of an ethnic minority, it's quite likely that the anti-immigrant feeling that Y-L and the Farage Party are stirring up will impact on his friends, family and community. I daresay even then, it will be the left at fault.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,797

    Your Party gets going:

    Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.

    Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.

    Our party will take the power back.

    Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.

    We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.

    In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.

    Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.

    In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.

    This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.

    And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.

    Timeline at a glance:

    September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start.
    October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name.
    November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.



    In Solidarity,
    Your Party

    Still think Our Party would have been a better name.
    People's Front of Jezza? Or maybe the Tooting Popular Front?

  • Phillipson out to 5

    Still drifting to small money on Betfair. I get the impression that layers withdraw overnight in case crucial news breaks while they are asleep, which is more likely in politics than sport.

    Lucy Powell – 1.17 (or 1/6 implying an 86 per cent chance)
    Bridget Phillipson – 6 (or 5/1 implying a 17 per cent chance)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,936
    edited September 16
    I know it’s easy to read news from mostly one side of a war and gain a positive impression, but it does appear that Ukraine has not only made good progress on the ground near Pokrovsk and Sumy in recent days, but that the ‘sanctions’ they are imposing on Russia’s oil and gas industry appear to be working.

    https://x.com/astraiaintel/status/1967497907428585653

    Russia has now suspended O&G exports completely, and there are increasingly more queues forming for petrol in russian cities as refineries and storage facilities continue to be targeted.

    https://x.com/ukikaski/status/1967583114978382274
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,041
    Oh dear


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,171

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Give me fucking strength.

    It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.

    So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".

    This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
    They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.

    So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
    The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.

    Including for those who actually are that.

    Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
    It seems to be ending with radical leftists shooting people at the moment. Remember, words are violence and shooting Nazis is peaceful.
    Melissa Hortman and her husband were shot by a Radical Rightist three months ago.
    They don't count. They're of the left, and therefore MaxPB's enemy.

    Q: Do you think it would've been fitting to lower the flags to half staff when Melissa Hortman, the Minnesota House Speaker, was gunned down by an assassin?

    TRUMP: I'm not familiar. The who?

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1967703869376369048
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,171
    Taz said:

    Oh dear


    I think that's code for Morgan McSweeney, whom everyone hates.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,936
    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,041
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Give me fucking strength.

    It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.

    So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".

    This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
    They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.

    So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
    The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.

    Including for those who actually are that.

    Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
    It seems to be ending with radical leftists shooting people at the moment. Remember, words are violence and shooting Nazis is peaceful.
    Melissa Hortman and her husband were shot by a Radical Rightist three months ago.
    They don't count. They're of the left, and therefore MaxPB's enemy.

    Q: Do you think it would've been fitting to lower the flags to half staff when Melissa Hortman, the Minnesota House Speaker, was gunned down by an assassin?

    TRUMP: I'm not familiar. The who?

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1967703869376369048
    Roger and Pete
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,844
    edited September 16

    I don't think it helps Starmer that he has no substantial power base or ultra-loyalists within the Labour Party. I recall reading an article mentioning that there is no such thing as "Starmerism" and that in itself is instructive, I think.

    He doesn't really believe in anything (he's not even confidently wedded to pragmatism, which Blair and Thatcher both had, aside from their overarching orthodoxies). And that makes it hard to inspire loyalty.

    Most other PMs had to build a base of loyal, fellow travellers within their party - look at Thatcher, Blair, Brown, Cameron, Johnson - all good examples of this. Starmer instead inherited a party where the most ambitious figures were desperate to stop losing, and as a result I suspect that a lot of this iron-fisted party management style that people lauded him for was a bit of luck - in that the party was so weary of defeat people just accepted it. Compare this to New Labour, where the same desperation existed but the architects of that project realised they needed more.

    This is now coming back to bite him, because now he is politically short of friends, who is there to help him? Who are his loyal lieutenants ready to ride to the rescue? Burnham clearly now sees himself as a rival. Rayner wasn't a "ride or die" ally, often on leadership manoeuvres herself. Streeting also has one eye on the top job. The closest he has is Reeves, who is also utterly discredited - and even for her, he couldn't back her in the Commons as she sobbed next to him. He also simply doesn't have the ace up his sleeve that other PMs had - the underpinning vision, the ideology, the team moving towards a common goal - that saved them and gave them allies through their darker hours.

    The Starmer story is one of a man who was parachuted into the top of politics, who got very lucky but who ultimately lacks the skills that make a good political leader.

    I would agree with all of that, but I would add not just that he doesn't have the political skills, he doesn't have the governmental skills necessary either. He might be able to weather all the political misjudgements he has made if he were making a stunning success, or even doing a reasonable job, of running the country and were solving its problems, rather than either ignoring them or making them worse.

    Instead, Starmer has made consistently poor judgements in policy and personnel and as a result fully deserves his dismal approval ratings.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,855
    edited September 16
    At one remove - she needs to get back into Parliament first. So she's perhaps rolling the pitch for the future.

    But she's 52, so she may be a bit short of time for a future bid. And only 3 of the last 12 Tory leaders (since 1970) were 50 or older when elected, if that us any kind of precedent.

    Maggie, Theresa, Liz, Kemi were 49, 59, 47, 44 respectively when elected.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,092
    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    ISTR Ukraine have been doing this for some time; at least there was video of them doing it.

    But that's kinda the point: Ukraine are meant to be the insurgents, the lesser-capable side. Russia is meant to be the amazingly high-tech and well-resourced military. You expect the less-capable side to go for all sorts of Heath Robinson-style contraptions to get over their disadvantage. Russia having to do it is just embarrassing, because they're stronk.

    In the same way a large part of the Russian Navy has been consigned to the Deep, or port, by a country that essentially has no navy.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,891

    eek said:

    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    ·
    1h
    “We depend on the Chinese market. And right now we have zero sold. It's a 5 alarm fire for our industry. The Chinese are going elsewhere. American soybean farmers and their families are suffering.” - American Soybean Farmer

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1967670728679182423

    ====

    The farmer is from Kentucky. 64% vote for Trump 2.0.

    He told you he wanted tariffs.

    You make your choices and you live by them.

    Worth reading the reply beneath, the Soybean market is not a global market and as the Chinese are the only buyers if they aren't buying those farmers are screwed.
    In a free market, businesses can fail. Remarkable how many think that should apply to everyone else but not them or their industry. 🎻
    But it’s not a free market? They are complaining about government intervention
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,891
    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hahahaha. That polling for Starmer

    Has a prime minister ever had such negative polling with his own party? Extraordinary

    You'd think he might say fuck it and retire
    It gives me some consolation, as Britain goes down a Starmer-shaped khazi, that most sensible Britons share my outright loathing of this nauseating dork
    Tipping Jess Phillips to be next Labour leader at 50/1 aside, I stand be when I said five years ago in this header, particularly…

    “Last month, Keir Starmer appeared on the television in my front room to give his response to the Prime Minister’s Covid-19 statement. A few seconds later my eyes glazed over, a few more passed and I switched the tv off saying “Jesus, he is dull”. It set me thinking that in a world of Reality tv, tiktok, snapchat, (none of which I am a fan of), and general instant gratification, (which I kind of am) Starmer was too boring to be Prime Minister. Those with a keen interest in politics scrutinise policies, but it could be that a significant minority, perhaps even a small majority, of the public prefer someone they can imagine mucking in on I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here.”


    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/06/the-case-for-making-personality-ratings-a-good-electoral-indicator/

    Fav to be next PM was indeed a contestant on said show



    His dullness isn't his problem though. There's a market for dull. His problem is his incompetence. Or not really believing in anything except process. Or that even when he's telling you about sonething he really believes in - like football - he sounds insincere and inauthentic. Or his political tin ear. Or the fact he came in to office without any real plan apart from not being the Tories, assuming that was all that was needed. Or his grifting. Or his failure to understand how the private sector operates and how money is made. Or his London-centricity.
    Compared to all that, his lack of charisma is only a minor handicap.
    You've missed the other issue - his chancellor is the 3rd worst I've seen in my lifetime. And the other 2 set really low bars as they are Kwasi Kwarteng and Jeremy Hunt.

    And Jeremy Hunt was politically a great Chancellor - but given it was obvious he was going he really shouldn't have shat on the future with his NI cuts.
    That budget actually put up taxes as a whole.

    The intention was to reduce the cost of employment and put more money in people’s pockets.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,092
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Give me fucking strength.

    It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.

    So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".

    This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
    They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.

    So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
    The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.

    Including for those who actually are that.

    Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
    It seems to be ending with radical leftists shooting people at the moment. Remember, words are violence and shooting Nazis is peaceful.
    Melissa Hortman and her husband were shot by a Radical Rightist three months ago.
    They don't count. They're of the left, and therefore MaxPB's enemy.

    Q: Do you think it would've been fitting to lower the flags to half staff when Melissa Hortman, the Minnesota House Speaker, was gunned down by an assassin?

    TRUMP: I'm not familiar. The who?

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1967703869376369048
    It's quite clear lives of anyone not MAGA don't matter to MAGA.

    And the same trend will occur over here as well, if we are not careful.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,891
    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Give me fucking strength.

    It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.

    So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".

    This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
    They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.

    So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
    The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.

    Including for those who actually are that.

    Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
    It seems to be ending with radical leftists shooting people at the moment. Remember, words are violence and shooting Nazis is peaceful.
    I don’t remember you getting this exercised by the murder of two Democrat state congress members a few months ago?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,855

    Your Party gets going:

    Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.

    Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.

    Our party will take the power back.

    Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.

    We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.

    In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.

    Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.

    In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.

    This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.

    And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.

    Timeline at a glance:

    September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start.
    October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name.
    November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.

    In Solidarity,
    Your Party

    At (very) first glance that has a feel that it could suffer from consultation inflation, and get bogged down in organisational games of chess, a little like the greens did when they had 4 leaders. Of course I could be wrong, and it may catch the need of the moment.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,304

    I see Starmer was aware of emails but didn't think to ask what was in them. He really does take this keeping his desk empty very seriously.

    Also, the way PMs deny knowledge of goings on in #10, anybody would think it was the size of Apple HQ when in fact its bloody tiny set of offices.

    Got to say being aware of emails between Epstein and Mandelson isn't enough for a I know nothing statement because to anyone that is enough to say - need the detail there.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    ISTR Ukraine have been doing this for some time; at least there was video of them doing it.

    But that's kinda the point: Ukraine are meant to be the insurgents, the lesser-capable side. Russia is meant to be the amazingly high-tech and well-resourced military. You expect the less-capable side to go for all sorts of Heath Robinson-style contraptions to get over their disadvantage. Russia having to do it is just embarrassing, because they're stronk.

    In the same way a large part of the Russian Navy has been consigned to the Deep, or port, by a country that essentially has no navy.
    This is the first year of the war, in which Russia has gained nothing of even medium importance, while still taking awful casualties, and incurring vast expenditure.

    And the fights at Pokrovsk and Sumy have been going badly, in recent weeks.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,304

    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hahahaha. That polling for Starmer

    Has a prime minister ever had such negative polling with his own party? Extraordinary

    You'd think he might say fuck it and retire
    It gives me some consolation, as Britain goes down a Starmer-shaped khazi, that most sensible Britons share my outright loathing of this nauseating dork
    Tipping Jess Phillips to be next Labour leader at 50/1 aside, I stand be when I said five years ago in this header, particularly…

    “Last month, Keir Starmer appeared on the television in my front room to give his response to the Prime Minister’s Covid-19 statement. A few seconds later my eyes glazed over, a few more passed and I switched the tv off saying “Jesus, he is dull”. It set me thinking that in a world of Reality tv, tiktok, snapchat, (none of which I am a fan of), and general instant gratification, (which I kind of am) Starmer was too boring to be Prime Minister. Those with a keen interest in politics scrutinise policies, but it could be that a significant minority, perhaps even a small majority, of the public prefer someone they can imagine mucking in on I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here.”


    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/06/06/the-case-for-making-personality-ratings-a-good-electoral-indicator/

    Fav to be next PM was indeed a contestant on said show



    His dullness isn't his problem though. There's a market for dull. His problem is his incompetence. Or not really believing in anything except process. Or that even when he's telling you about sonething he really believes in - like football - he sounds insincere and inauthentic. Or his political tin ear. Or the fact he came in to office without any real plan apart from not being the Tories, assuming that was all that was needed. Or his grifting. Or his failure to understand how the private sector operates and how money is made. Or his London-centricity.
    Compared to all that, his lack of charisma is only a minor handicap.
    You've missed the other issue - his chancellor is the 3rd worst I've seen in my lifetime. And the other 2 set really low bars as they are Kwasi Kwarteng and Jeremy Hunt.

    And Jeremy Hunt was politically a great Chancellor - but given it was obvious he was going he really shouldn't have shat on the future with his NI cuts.
    That budget actually put up taxes as a whole.

    The intention was to reduce the cost of employment and put more money in people’s pockets.
    Simple response as I've repeated often enough he didn't put taxes up by enough by spending all the leeway and forgetting civil service staff do need I pay rise. That last bit can partly be pinned on the OBR as well as the Treasury though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,936

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Give me fucking strength.

    It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.

    So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".

    This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
    They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.

    So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
    The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.

    Including for those who actually are that.

    Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
    It seems to be ending with radical leftists shooting people at the moment. Remember, words are violence and shooting Nazis is peaceful.
    I don’t remember you getting this exercised by the murder of two Democrat state congress members a few months ago?
    Because the only emotion coming from anyone after that murder was sympathy, there weren’t tens of thousands of people online and in the media celebrating or trying to excuse the killing.

    Five days after Charlie Kirk’s assassination, it does appear that a rubicon is close to being crossed in the US.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,092
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Give me fucking strength.

    It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.

    So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".

    This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
    They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.

    So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
    The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.

    Including for those who actually are that.

    Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
    It seems to be ending with radical leftists shooting people at the moment. Remember, words are violence and shooting Nazis is peaceful.
    I don’t remember you getting this exercised by the murder of two Democrat state congress members a few months ago?
    Because the only emotion coming from anyone after that murder was sympathy, there weren’t tens of thousands of people online and in the media celebrating or trying to excuse the killing.

    Five days after Charlie Kirk’s assassination, it does appear that a rubicon is close to being crossed in the US.
    That's utter rubbish, from my memory.

    A difference is that the right are taking anything said against Kirk and regurgitating it, LOOK AT WHAT THEY'RE SAYING!!!!

    Also note the way the right are very keen to make these incidents are by leftists, even when they're clearly not.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,092
    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    ISTR Ukraine have been doing this for some time; at least there was video of them doing it.

    But that's kinda the point: Ukraine are meant to be the insurgents, the lesser-capable side. Russia is meant to be the amazingly high-tech and well-resourced military. You expect the less-capable side to go for all sorts of Heath Robinson-style contraptions to get over their disadvantage. Russia having to do it is just embarrassing, because they're stronk.

    In the same way a large part of the Russian Navy has been consigned to the Deep, or port, by a country that essentially has no navy.
    This is the first year of the war, in which Russia has gained nothing of even medium importance, while still taking awful casualties, and incurring vast expenditure.

    And the fights at Pokrovsk and Sumy have been going badly, in recent weeks.
    The Russian so-called 'summer offensive' has not gone well for them. There have been rumours of them building up for an autumn offensive, but it's not a good season to try to take ground in Ukraine.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,936
    Credit where it’s due to the government. RAF Typhoons and Voyager refuelers to join multinational air patrols over NATO’s Eastern flank, after russian drones have been caught busting airspace in recent days.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-fighter-jets-to-join-nato-operation-to-bolster-european-security
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,617
    Fishing said:

    I don't think it helps Starmer that he has no substantial power base or ultra-loyalists within the Labour Party. I recall reading an article mentioning that there is no such thing as "Starmerism" and that in itself is instructive, I think.

    He doesn't really believe in anything (he's not even confidently wedded to pragmatism, which Blair and Thatcher both had, aside from their overarching orthodoxies). And that makes it hard to inspire loyalty.

    Most other PMs had to build a base of loyal, fellow travellers within their party - look at Thatcher, Blair, Brown, Cameron, Johnson - all good examples of this. Starmer instead inherited a party where the most ambitious figures were desperate to stop losing, and as a result I suspect that a lot of this iron-fisted party management style that people lauded him for was a bit of luck - in that the party was so weary of defeat people just accepted it. Compare this to New Labour, where the same desperation existed but the architects of that project realised they needed more.

    This is now coming back to bite him, because now he is politically short of friends, who is there to help him? Who are his loyal lieutenants ready to ride to the rescue? Burnham clearly now sees himself as a rival. Rayner wasn't a "ride or die" ally, often on leadership manoeuvres herself. Streeting also has one eye on the top job. The closest he has is Reeves, who is also utterly discredited - and even for her, he couldn't back her in the Commons as she sobbed next to him. He also simply doesn't have the ace up his sleeve that other PMs had - the underpinning vision, the ideology, the team moving towards a common goal - that saved them and gave them allies through their darker hours.

    The Starmer story is one of a man who was parachuted into the top of politics, who got very lucky but who ultimately lacks the skills that make a good political leader.

    I would agree with all of that, but I would add not just that he doesn't have the political skills, he doesn't have the governmental skills necessary either. He might be able to weather all the political misjudgements he has made if he were making a stunning success, or even doing a reasonable job, of running the country and were solving its problems, rather than either ignoring them or making them worse.

    Instead, Starmer has made consistently poor judgements in policy and personnel and as a result fully deserves his dismal approval ratings.
    All that is absolutely true, but more important than that is the fundamental ungovernability of Britain. We see this now in the grotesque failure of the 'one out, one in' policy, which once again has foundered in the courts. The fruition of the Blair 'reforms' is that courts can strike down any law they please. And they please to strike down a lot of them.

    We don't discuss this a lot here, because it would involve agreeing with Liz Truss, and that is more than the fragile PB collective ego could stand.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,828
    edited September 16

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Give me fucking strength.

    It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.

    So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".

    This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
    They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.

    So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
    The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.

    Including for those who actually are that.

    Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
    It seems to be ending with radical leftists shooting people at the moment. Remember, words are violence and shooting Nazis is peaceful.
    I don’t remember you getting this exercised by the murder of two Democrat state congress members a few months ago?
    Because the only emotion coming from anyone after that murder was sympathy, there weren’t tens of thousands of people online and in the media celebrating or trying to excuse the killing.

    Five days after Charlie Kirk’s assassination, it does appear that a rubicon is close to being crossed in the US.
    That's utter rubbish, from my memory.

    A difference is that the right are taking anything said against Kirk and regurgitating it, LOOK AT WHAT THEY'RE SAYING!!!!

    Also note the way the right are very keen to make these incidents are by leftists, even when they're clearly not.
    Things we collectively haven't been able to agree on.

    1 whether Kirk's message in life was reasonable, unreasonable but I'll defend your right to say it, or so unreasonable that it deserved to be closed down

    2 whether his methods were open debate or a slideshow huckster parody of debate

    3 the motivations of his killer

    4 the relative weight of responsible, irresponsible and evil responses to Kirk's killing from different groups of people

    5 some other important stuff I've forgotten for the moment.

    There's a torrent of facts, semi-facts and outright lies out there. If we are lucky, the bit of the torrent that passes our eyes is reasonably representative of the better bits of the whole.

    The ideal of a news medium is to do the sifting for us. I doubt that has ever happened perfectly, though I suspect the BBC/ITN duopoly of the 70s/80s got as close as anyone. Now the torrent of inputs is greater, except most of the extra inputs are sewage. There's also more pressure for sensationalism and bad-faith bias. And even those who want to do a good journalistic job rarely have the time or resources to do so. That's before we get on to the algorithms that feed us what we want to hear.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,855
    edited September 16
    JD VAnce hosted the Charlie Kirk podcast from his office last night, as a fundraiser for Turning Point.

    It is here, 80 minutes long:

    https://open.spotify.com/episode/3aatgpV6s0w0kzGjiIOqml
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,075
    edited September 16
    A bit of fun for insomniacs. The Newsagents podcast on the loony Reform Conference and a bit behind the scenes. Starts after the stuff about the reshuffle half way through. They're bonkers! Who knew?

    https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-real-reason-behind-keir-starmers-reshuffle/id1640878689?i=1000725552007
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,128
    edited September 16
    Labour market data out this morning. It’s OK, not fantastic but not bad, though you wouldn’t think so from the headlines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/sep/16/uk-labour-market-pay-growth-job-losses-rachel-reeves

    Yet again we have wage growth comfortably in excess of inflation, but consumer spending way lower than it should be. It’s been the case since 2023. The confidence thing, again.

    And a boost for those pensioners on triple lock.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,957
    a
    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    Broken back war - as they lose or use up capabilities, increasing primitive things replace them.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,386
    BBC "State pension likely to rise by 4.7% in April"
  • Leon said:

    I’m raising my odds of Starmer going by next summer to 65%

    As low as that?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,128
    edited September 16

    BBC "State pension likely to rise by 4.7% in April"

    It’s an opportunity for double-misery in the headlines today.

    “Wage growth ONLY 4.7%”
    “Pensioners get HUGE 4.7% pay boost”

    The late stage Sunak government faced the same headline double whammy. Wage growth has been catching up pretty healthily since the Ukraine inflation spike died down.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,835

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    ISTR Ukraine have been doing this for some time; at least there was video of them doing it.

    But that's kinda the point: Ukraine are meant to be the insurgents, the lesser-capable side. Russia is meant to be the amazingly high-tech and well-resourced military. You expect the less-capable side to go for all sorts of Heath Robinson-style contraptions to get over their disadvantage. Russia having to do it is just embarrassing, because they're stronk.

    In the same way a large part of the Russian Navy has been consigned to the Deep, or port, by a country that essentially has no navy.
    Russia has always relied upon the size of its country and the size of its population to grind its way to victory with crude tactics and little regard for the lives of its troops; clever tactics and high technology haven’t been its forte.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,835

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Give me fucking strength.

    It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.

    So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".

    This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
    They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.

    So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
    The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.

    Including for those who actually are that.

    Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
    It seems to be ending with radical leftists shooting people at the moment. Remember, words are violence and shooting Nazis is peaceful.
    I don’t remember you getting this exercised by the murder of two Democrat state congress members a few months ago?
    Because the only emotion coming from anyone after that murder was sympathy, there weren’t tens of thousands of people online and in the media celebrating or trying to excuse the killing.

    Five days after Charlie Kirk’s assassination, it does appear that a rubicon is close to being crossed in the US.
    That's utter rubbish, from my memory.

    A difference is that the right are taking anything said against Kirk and regurgitating it, LOOK AT WHAT THEY'RE SAYING!!!!

    Also note the way the right are very keen to make these incidents are by leftists, even when they're clearly not.
    If you were a Russian bot, what would you be posting online to stir things up inside the US…..
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,128
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    ISTR Ukraine have been doing this for some time; at least there was video of them doing it.

    But that's kinda the point: Ukraine are meant to be the insurgents, the lesser-capable side. Russia is meant to be the amazingly high-tech and well-resourced military. You expect the less-capable side to go for all sorts of Heath Robinson-style contraptions to get over their disadvantage. Russia having to do it is just embarrassing, because they're stronk.

    In the same way a large part of the Russian Navy has been consigned to the Deep, or port, by a country that essentially has no navy.
    Russia has always relied upon the size of its country and the size of its population to grind its way to victory with crude tactics and little regard for the lives of its troops; clever tactics and high technology haven’t been its forte.
    Yesterday they were showing off to journalists in Belarus with some big bangs, and the journos were lapping it up. Russia big and strong, borderline invincible. Next stop the Suwalki Gap.
  • TimS said:

    BBC "State pension likely to rise by 4.7% in April"

    It’s an opportunity for double-misery in the headlines today.

    “Wage growth ONLY 4.7%”
    “Pensioners get HUGE 4.7% pay boost”

    The late stage Sunak government faced the same headline double whammy. Wage growth has been catching up pretty healthily since the Ukraine inflation spike died down.
    So post-inflation, that's about £100 increase per pensioner?

    (Just putting it in context of the winter fuel bonus and noting that it's a significantly less stingy pension than the current generation of recipients paid for their parents to have.)

    Political gain to the government: zero. Political cost of not doing it: terminal.
  • IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Give me fucking strength.

    It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.

    So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".

    This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
    They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.

    So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
    The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.

    Including for those who actually are that.

    Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
    It seems to be ending with radical leftists shooting people at the moment. Remember, words are violence and shooting Nazis is peaceful.
    I don’t remember you getting this exercised by the murder of two Democrat state congress members a few months ago?
    Because the only emotion coming from anyone after that murder was sympathy, there weren’t tens of thousands of people online and in the media celebrating or trying to excuse the killing.

    Five days after Charlie Kirk’s assassination, it does appear that a rubicon is close to being crossed in the US.
    That's utter rubbish, from my memory.

    A difference is that the right are taking anything said against Kirk and regurgitating it, LOOK AT WHAT THEY'RE SAYING!!!!

    Also note the way the right are very keen to make these incidents are by leftists, even when they're clearly not.
    If you were a Russian bot, what would you be posting online to stir things up inside the US…..
    As many different things, under as many different names, as I could think of.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,957
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    ISTR Ukraine have been doing this for some time; at least there was video of them doing it.

    But that's kinda the point: Ukraine are meant to be the insurgents, the lesser-capable side. Russia is meant to be the amazingly high-tech and well-resourced military. You expect the less-capable side to go for all sorts of Heath Robinson-style contraptions to get over their disadvantage. Russia having to do it is just embarrassing, because they're stronk.

    In the same way a large part of the Russian Navy has been consigned to the Deep, or port, by a country that essentially has no navy.
    Russia has always relied upon the size of its country and the size of its population to grind its way to victory with crude tactics and little regard for the lives of its troops; clever tactics and high technology haven’t been its forte.
    The time was when Frontal Aviation could darken the skies with bombers carrying enough missile to have a chance to overwhelm the Aegis systems in a US battle group. Together with submarines launching further swarms of missiles that networked with each other - one missile would fly high and direct the others to targets.

    The air defences of the Soviet Union were massive and in great depth. Thousands of interceptors, radars, missiles of all sizes.

    The Soviet Union was out technologied, in the end, by the US. But it wasn’t a one sided race.
  • Sandpit said:

    Credit where it’s due to the government. RAF Typhoons and Voyager refuelers to join multinational air patrols over NATO’s Eastern flank, after russian drones have been caught busting airspace in recent days.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-fighter-jets-to-join-nato-operation-to-bolster-european-security

    We are NATO. Article 5 and all that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,188
    TimS said:

    BBC "State pension likely to rise by 4.7% in April"

    It’s an opportunity for double-misery in the headlines today.

    “Wage growth ONLY 4.7%”
    “Pensioners get HUGE 4.7% pay boost”

    The late stage Sunak government faced the same headline double whammy. Wage growth has been catching up pretty healthily since the Ukraine inflation spike died down.
    If Reeves makes the "tough decision" to end the Triple lock and give a lower rise in the Budget, she will have redeemed herself somewhat.
  • We truly are in strange times:

    Labour imploding
    Tories imploded but it hasn't yet hit the central nervous system of those who remained to the end
    Davey leading the Make A Stand movement with most people still sitting
    Reform fighting it out with Tommeh Two-Names for command of "patriots"
    Racist hate-filled cockwomble shot dead and the tragedy of his murder somehow wipes clean his life

    I have no idea where our politics goes as we move forward, but I am clear that I don't have enough popcorn. Whatever happens I am glad that I will be here for the ride.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,188
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    ISTR Ukraine have been doing this for some time; at least there was video of them doing it.

    But that's kinda the point: Ukraine are meant to be the insurgents, the lesser-capable side. Russia is meant to be the amazingly high-tech and well-resourced military. You expect the less-capable side to go for all sorts of Heath Robinson-style contraptions to get over their disadvantage. Russia having to do it is just embarrassing, because they're stronk.

    In the same way a large part of the Russian Navy has been consigned to the Deep, or port, by a country that essentially has no navy.
    Russia has always relied upon the size of its country and the size of its population to grind its way to victory with crude tactics and little regard for the lives of its troops; clever tactics and high technology haven’t been its forte.
    Considering that Trumpistan pulled the plug on US military assistance in January, the Ukranian forces have held up with a degree of resilience the Russians seem unable to cope with.

    It's not obvious what starting a war with Poland achieves in the context of making very little progress in the Donbas.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,895
    Are the usual suspects who blame Rachel Reeves for any negative business investment decision going to congratulate her on Google’s £5b investment? Hmm?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,797

    a

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    Broken back war - as they lose or use up capabilities, increasing primitive things replace them.
    The "primitive things" do not survive very long in the drone wars. The Russian death toll in the last month has accelerated still further. It is horrific the utter contempt that Putin has for human life... on his own side.

    The total failure of the Russian "Summer offensive" is now quite clear, and the Ukrainians are taking up new forward positions for the winter which only underlines the Russian defeat. In theatre the Russians are in serious trouble.

    The problem is that diplomatically, with China and now India, Russia is scoring more points, and the constant fear of American treachery is also creating European tensions. TBH, the EU should seriously punish Indian participation in Zapad. As for the UK, atm London is just a wholly owned subsidiary of Trumpistan.
  • Sliding Doors moment for Labour: if Starmer had appointed Farage as US ambassador as was heavily talked about.

    Refuk now led by 30p and irrelevant. No Mandy scandal. Starmer has an enemy over the sea he can unite his party against etc etc
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,957
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    ISTR Ukraine have been doing this for some time; at least there was video of them doing it.

    But that's kinda the point: Ukraine are meant to be the insurgents, the lesser-capable side. Russia is meant to be the amazingly high-tech and well-resourced military. You expect the less-capable side to go for all sorts of Heath Robinson-style contraptions to get over their disadvantage. Russia having to do it is just embarrassing, because they're stronk.

    In the same way a large part of the Russian Navy has been consigned to the Deep, or port, by a country that essentially has no navy.
    Russia has always relied upon the size of its country and the size of its population to grind its way to victory with crude tactics and little regard for the lives of its troops; clever tactics and high technology haven’t been its forte.
    Considering that Trumpistan pulled the plug on US military assistance in January, the Ukranian forces have held up with a degree of resilience the Russians seem unable to cope with.

    It's not obvious what starting a war with Poland achieves in the context of making very little progress in the Donbas.
    “Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts.”
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,891

    Foxy said:

    +++ betting post +++



    GB News
    @GBNEWS
    'Suella Braverman leads the list.'

    Political bookmaker William Kedjanyi provides the odds in betting markets of who would be next to join Nigel Farage's Reform UK, with Andrew Rosindell, Mark Francois and Esther McVey all on the list.

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1967660749183959362

    Even though she ruled it out 4 days ago.
    Never believe anything until it is officially denied!
    Asked whether she had been approached, she said: “I have a lot of friends in Reform. My husband was very recently a member of Reform.

    “I also have, breaking news, friends in the Liberal Democrats. I also know people in the Labour Party. I’m not defecting to Labour or to the Lib Dems. Let me just tell you that I’m not defecting.”

    https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/politics/suella-braverman-insists-she-has-no-plans-to-defect-to-reform-uk-5313915
    Friends in reform… friends in the LibDems… “knows people” in Labour…
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,314
    An impassioned plea by trainer Jamie Snowden on the issue of gambling tax harmonisation and its impact on horse racing:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/horseracing-protest-tax-gambling-online-betting-reform-b1247771.html
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,936
    edited September 16
    Cicero said:

    a

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    Broken back war - as they lose or use up capabilities, increasing primitive things replace them.
    The "primitive things" do not survive very long in the drone wars. The Russian death toll in the last month has accelerated still further. It is horrific the utter contempt that Putin has for human life... on his own side.

    The total failure of the Russian "Summer offensive" is now quite clear, and the Ukrainians are taking up new forward positions for the winter which only underlines the Russian defeat. In theatre the Russians are in serious trouble.

    The problem is that diplomatically, with China and now India, Russia is scoring more points, and the constant fear of American treachery is also creating European tensions. TBH, the EU should seriously punish Indian participation in Zapad. As for the UK, atm London is just a wholly owned subsidiary of Trumpistan.
    China appears to be less than happy at the closing of the rail line between Belarus and Poland, by the Polish.

    It appears to be a key part of the link to getting a lot of cheap Chinese crap into Europe, a £25bn industry 90% of which runs through Poland.

    https://x.com/vtchakarova/status/1967659648254673118

    Pressure on China and India needs to keep being applied, as does pressure on those still buying Russian O&G indirectly.
  • Sliding Doors moment for Labour: if Starmer had appointed Farage as US ambassador as was heavily talked about.

    Refuk now led by 30p and irrelevant. No Mandy scandal. Starmer has an enemy over the sea he can unite his party against etc etc

    Nah. Similar dynamics to the "if only Cameron had got the Leave side to define their Brexit before the referendum" sliding door.

    Farage would have taken the upside ('look, even Starmer is taking me seriously ') but not taken the job. He'd have put some impressive sounding but impossible condition on accepting the role, milked the headlines and ultimately turned it down.

    Farage's core talent is not being cornered.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,957

    Foxy said:

    +++ betting post +++



    GB News
    @GBNEWS
    'Suella Braverman leads the list.'

    Political bookmaker William Kedjanyi provides the odds in betting markets of who would be next to join Nigel Farage's Reform UK, with Andrew Rosindell, Mark Francois and Esther McVey all on the list.

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1967660749183959362

    Even though she ruled it out 4 days ago.
    Never believe anything until it is officially denied!
    Asked whether she had been approached, she said: “I have a lot of friends in Reform. My husband was very recently a member of Reform.

    “I also have, breaking news, friends in the Liberal Democrats. I also know people in the Labour Party. I’m not defecting to Labour or to the Lib Dems. Let me just tell you that I’m not defecting.”

    https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/politics/suella-braverman-insists-she-has-no-plans-to-defect-to-reform-uk-5313915
    Friends in reform… friends in the LibDems… “knows people” in Labour…
    “Never kissed fruit or nuts.”
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,855

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    ISTR Ukraine have been doing this for some time; at least there was video of them doing it.

    But that's kinda the point: Ukraine are meant to be the insurgents, the lesser-capable side. Russia is meant to be the amazingly high-tech and well-resourced military. You expect the less-capable side to go for all sorts of Heath Robinson-style contraptions to get over their disadvantage. Russia having to do it is just embarrassing, because they're stronk.

    In the same way a large part of the Russian Navy has been consigned to the Deep, or port, by a country that essentially has no navy.
    Russia has always relied upon the size of its country and the size of its population to grind its way to victory with crude tactics and little regard for the lives of its troops; clever tactics and high technology haven’t been its forte.
    The time was when Frontal Aviation could darken the skies with bombers carrying enough missile to have a chance to overwhelm the Aegis systems in a US battle group. Together with submarines launching further swarms of missiles that networked with each other - one missile would fly high and direct the others to targets.

    The air defences of the Soviet Union were massive and in great depth. Thousands of interceptors, radars, missiles of all sizes.

    The Soviet Union was out technologied, in the end, by the US. But it wasn’t a one sided race.
    Perun was interesting this week, on the China Military Parade.

    He identified a truck-mounted anti-drone munition that on the one truck has 96 anti-drone missiles. They are thinking about swarms !

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRts6IVMelA

    Next week will be about Western, allied, and SE Asian innovations, after a visit to the DSEI in London.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,154
    Cicero said:

    a

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    Broken back war - as they lose or use up capabilities, increasing primitive things replace them.
    The "primitive things" do not survive very long in the drone wars. The Russian death toll in the last month has accelerated still further. It is horrific the utter contempt that Putin has for human life... on his own side.

    The total failure of the Russian "Summer offensive" is now quite clear, and the Ukrainians are taking up new forward positions for the winter which only underlines the Russian defeat. In theatre the Russians are in serious trouble.

    The problem is that diplomatically, with China and now India, Russia is scoring more points, and the constant fear of American treachery is also creating European tensions. TBH, the EU should seriously punish Indian participation in Zapad. As for the UK, atm London is just a wholly owned subsidiary of Trumpistan.
    It does feel like a stretch to think Russia could genuinely threaten NATO’s eastern flank, given how ground down their military resources are. I can understand how infinite infantry makes up for lack of equipment this far into a war. Particularly against a smaller and economically weaker enemy.

    But surely Russia would need an initial shock and awe phase to take the Suwalki Gap. What are they supposed to do, line up tens of thousands of troops crossing the border from Belarus and hope that the nato countries in question don’t throw everything they have at the column?

    It does feel a little like the war games are thinking about it all wrong. It’s the “popular uprising” / Little Green Men threat in the Baltics that feels the bigger threat, rather than anything that Russia might throw at the new Maginot Line.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,797

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    ISTR Ukraine have been doing this for some time; at least there was video of them doing it.

    But that's kinda the point: Ukraine are meant to be the insurgents, the lesser-capable side. Russia is meant to be the amazingly high-tech and well-resourced military. You expect the less-capable side to go for all sorts of Heath Robinson-style contraptions to get over their disadvantage. Russia having to do it is just embarrassing, because they're stronk.

    In the same way a large part of the Russian Navy has been consigned to the Deep, or port, by a country that essentially has no navy.
    Russia has always relied upon the size of its country and the size of its population to grind its way to victory with crude tactics and little regard for the lives of its troops; clever tactics and high technology haven’t been its forte.
    Considering that Trumpistan pulled the plug on US military assistance in January, the Ukranian forces have held up with a degree of resilience the Russians seem unable to cope with.

    It's not obvious what starting a war with Poland achieves in the context of making very little progress in the Donbas.
    “Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts.”
    The Polish Army on its own could probably take the K'grad oblast and quite probably be in Minsk in a timeline of days rather than weeks. It is now a formidably equipped and very well trained fighting force- the third largest in NATO after the US and Turkey- and Poland spends nearly 5% of GDP on its armed forces. Provoking the Polish Eagle would most likely be the last thing Putin does.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,293
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    BBC "State pension likely to rise by 4.7% in April"

    It’s an opportunity for double-misery in the headlines today.

    “Wage growth ONLY 4.7%”
    “Pensioners get HUGE 4.7% pay boost”

    The late stage Sunak government faced the same headline double whammy. Wage growth has been catching up pretty healthily since the Ukraine inflation spike died down.
    If Reeves makes the "tough decision" to end the Triple lock and give a lower rise in the Budget, she will have redeemed herself somewhat.
    Labour will then be polling even worse then they are now .The triple lock will remain unless there’s cross party agreement to get rid of it . Everyone knows it’s unsustainable but currently no one dares touch it as it comes with too much political cost .
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,895
    moonshine said:

    Cicero said:

    a

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    Broken back war - as they lose or use up capabilities, increasing primitive things replace them.
    The "primitive things" do not survive very long in the drone wars. The Russian death toll in the last month has accelerated still further. It is horrific the utter contempt that Putin has for human life... on his own side.

    The total failure of the Russian "Summer offensive" is now quite clear, and the Ukrainians are taking up new forward positions for the winter which only underlines the Russian defeat. In theatre the Russians are in serious trouble.

    The problem is that diplomatically, with China and now India, Russia is scoring more points, and the constant fear of American treachery is also creating European tensions. TBH, the EU should seriously punish Indian participation in Zapad. As for the UK, atm London is just a wholly owned subsidiary of Trumpistan.
    It does feel like a stretch to think Russia could genuinely threaten NATO’s eastern flank, given how ground down their military resources are. I can understand how infinite infantry makes up for lack of equipment this far into a war. Particularly against a smaller and economically weaker enemy.

    But surely Russia would need an initial shock and awe phase to take the Suwalki Gap. What are they supposed to do, line up tens of thousands of troops crossing the border from Belarus and hope that the nato countries in question don’t throw everything they have at the column?

    It does feel a little like the war games are thinking about it all wrong. It’s the “popular uprising” / Little Green Men threat in the Baltics that feels the bigger threat, rather than anything that Russia might throw at the new Maginot Line.
    Russia is now battle-hardened in the new drone wars. Western Europe is not. Ukraine is going to be a very powerful ally if it survives.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,273
    Morning all
    YouGov this week

    Ref 29 (+2)
    Lab 20 (-2)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (-2)

    Havent got SNP or Others figure yet
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,171

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Give me fucking strength.

    It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.

    So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".

    This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
    They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.

    So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
    The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.

    Including for those who actually are that.

    Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
    It seems to be ending with radical leftists shooting people at the moment. Remember, words are violence and shooting Nazis is peaceful.
    I don’t remember you getting this exercised by the murder of two Democrat state congress members a few months ago?
    Because the only emotion coming from anyone after that murder was sympathy, there weren’t tens of thousands of people online and in the media celebrating or trying to excuse the killing.

    Five days after Charlie Kirk’s assassination, it does appear that a rubicon is close to being crossed in the US.
    That's utter rubbish, from my memory.

    A difference is that the right are taking anything said against Kirk and regurgitating it, LOOK AT WHAT THEY'RE SAYING!!!!

    Also note the way the right are very keen to make these incidents are by leftists, even when they're clearly not.
    Things we collectively haven't been able to agree on.

    1 whether Kirk's message in life was reasonable, unreasonable but I'll defend your right to say it, or so unreasonable that it deserved to be closed down

    2 whether his methods were open debate or a slideshow huckster parody of debate

    3 the motivations of his killer

    4 the relative weight of responsible, irresponsible and evil responses to Kirk's killing from different groups of people

    5 some other important stuff I've forgotten for the moment.

    There's a torrent of facts, semi-facts and outright lies out there. If we are lucky, the bit of the torrent that passes our eyes is reasonably representative of the better bits of the whole.

    The ideal of a news medium is to do the sifting for us. I doubt that has ever happened perfectly, though I suspect the BBC/ITN duopoly of the 70s/80s got as close as anyone. Now the torrent of inputs is greater, except most of the extra inputs are sewage. There's also more pressure for sensationalism and bad-faith bias. And even those who want to do a good journalistic job rarely have the time or resources to do so. That's before we get on to the algorithms that feed us what we want to hear.
    1) a mix of reasonable and unreasonable, but I defend the right to say it

    2) huckster - but he was hardly unique in that

    3) TBD - the rush to judgment, from both sides of the aisle, is indefensible

    4) who knows ? We all see only a skewed fragment of the whole
    But an administration using it as pretext for unleashing the full force of the state on their political opponents is fascistic (looking at you, Stephen Miller)

    One point I would make is that the daily diet of incitement from Fox News is now so much part of the furniture that, while occasional lapses by journalists at other stations result in dismissal, Fox seems to have full license to say anything at all. Notwithstanding their massive libel penalty.

    It took a journalist suggesting the extermination of the homeless to elicit even an apology.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,669
    edited September 16

    We truly are in strange times:

    Labour imploding
    Tories imploded but it hasn't yet hit the central nervous system of those who remained to the end
    Davey leading the Make A Stand movement with most people still sitting
    Reform fighting it out with Tommeh Two-Names for command of "patriots"
    Racist hate-filled cockwomble shot dead and the tragedy of his murder somehow wipes clean his life

    I have no idea where our politics goes as we move forward, but I am clear that I don't have enough popcorn. Whatever happens I am glad that I will be here for the ride.

    Morning, PB.

    Yes, we"re somehow at an "everything all at once" point.

    You could have added to that the tension between the West and Russia, and two comets discovered in the lasr two months who will make close fly-bys of the earth.

    Enjoy.
  • NEW THREAD

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,957
    Cicero said:

    a

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    Broken back war - as they lose or use up capabilities, increasing primitive things replace them.
    The "primitive things" do not survive very long in the drone wars. The Russian death toll in the last month has accelerated still further. It is horrific the utter contempt that Putin has for human life... on his own side.

    The total failure of the Russian "Summer offensive" is now quite clear, and the Ukrainians are taking up new forward positions for the winter which only underlines the Russian defeat. In theatre the Russians are in serious trouble.

    The problem is that diplomatically, with China and now India, Russia is scoring more points, and the constant fear of American treachery is also creating European tensions. TBH, the EU should seriously punish Indian participation in Zapad. As for the UK, atm London is just a wholly owned subsidiary of Trumpistan.
    The drones are a reaction to the primitive state of the war.

    If either side were a fully modern military, slow moving drones with unhardened electronics would be wiped out.

    So they would need to be replaced with fast moving “drones” with hardened electronics and navigation, utilising signature reduction (stealth or automated terrain following. Missiles, essentially.

    But the lack of high tech *in volume* on both sides opened a window (ha!). So Russia is bombing Ukraine with Iranian drones which are little more than large remote control aircraft. And Russia is hunting drones pretty much manually.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,314

    We truly are in strange times:

    Labour imploding
    Tories imploded but it hasn't yet hit the central nervous system of those who remained to the end
    Davey leading the Make A Stand movement with most people still sitting
    Reform fighting it out with Tommeh Two-Names for command of "patriots"
    Racist hate-filled cockwomble shot dead and the tragedy of his murder somehow wipes clean his life

    I have no idea where our politics goes as we move forward, but I am clear that I don't have enough popcorn. Whatever happens I am glad that I will be here for the ride.

    I argued last evening those who think two party politics is dead have got it wrong.

    The parties may end up with different names but ultimately it will resolve down to a binary choice - the big change is the nature of the faultline. For decades, it was economic - one side favoured lower taxes, less spending and regulation, the other saw the State as the provider, supported taxation and spending.

    That line is no longer valid or has the priority it once did - the divide is now socio-cultural. If you are socially conservative, there's a party for you (possibly two) whereas if you have a more liberal mindset, there are three or four parties for you.

    This has had two impacts - first, social conservatives and liberals who mixed together happily under the same economic programme in the Labour and Conservative parties have now flocked to Reform gutting both parties and leaving them shadows of the coalitions they once were.

    The other question is whether there are enough social conservatives under FPTP to give Reform a majority on perhaps 30% of the vote - probably but if the liberally minded vote tactically, probably not.

    It is the change in the faultline which has damaged Labour and the Conservatives - the politics of economics no longer matter, the politics of society and culture do.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,092
    moonshine said:

    Cicero said:

    a

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    Broken back war - as they lose or use up capabilities, increasing primitive things replace them.
    The "primitive things" do not survive very long in the drone wars. The Russian death toll in the last month has accelerated still further. It is horrific the utter contempt that Putin has for human life... on his own side.

    The total failure of the Russian "Summer offensive" is now quite clear, and the Ukrainians are taking up new forward positions for the winter which only underlines the Russian defeat. In theatre the Russians are in serious trouble.

    The problem is that diplomatically, with China and now India, Russia is scoring more points, and the constant fear of American treachery is also creating European tensions. TBH, the EU should seriously punish Indian participation in Zapad. As for the UK, atm London is just a wholly owned subsidiary of Trumpistan.
    It does feel like a stretch to think Russia could genuinely threaten NATO’s eastern flank, given how ground down their military resources are. I can understand how infinite infantry makes up for lack of equipment this far into a war. Particularly against a smaller and economically weaker enemy.

    But surely Russia would need an initial shock and awe phase to take the Suwalki Gap. What are they supposed to do, line up tens of thousands of troops crossing the border from Belarus and hope that the nato countries in question don’t throw everything they have at the column?

    It does feel a little like the war games are thinking about it all wrong. It’s the “popular uprising” / Little Green Men threat in the Baltics that feels the bigger threat, rather than anything that Russia might throw at the new Maginot Line.
    This ignores the way Putin works.

    Initially, he tries political intervention. Interfere with an enemy's democracy to try to make it elect someone more favourable to Russia. In the case of countries he thinks should be within Russia's sphere of influence, until they elect a Putin Puppet.

    If that fails, and it is a country that he thinks should be within Russia's sphere of influence, then he tries more kinetic means.

    I can easily see the Russian tanks going into some eastern European countries because they have been 'invited' in by newly-elected Putin Puppets.

    The threat from Putin is not just from Russia's military.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,154

    Foxy said:

    +++ betting post +++



    GB News
    @GBNEWS
    'Suella Braverman leads the list.'

    Political bookmaker William Kedjanyi provides the odds in betting markets of who would be next to join Nigel Farage's Reform UK, with Andrew Rosindell, Mark Francois and Esther McVey all on the list.

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1967660749183959362

    Even though she ruled it out 4 days ago.
    Never believe anything until it is officially denied!
    Asked whether she had been approached, she said: “I have a lot of friends in Reform. My husband was very recently a member of Reform.

    “I also have, breaking news, friends in the Liberal Democrats. I also know people in the Labour Party. I’m not defecting to Labour or to the Lib Dems. Let me just tell you that I’m not defecting.”

    https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/politics/suella-braverman-insists-she-has-no-plans-to-defect-to-reform-uk-5313915
    Friends in reform… friends in the LibDems… “knows people” in Labour…
    Chuckle.

    It is interesting how much the British polity has fragmented recently. I have friends active at relatively senior levels in both the Lim Dems and Labour, others formerly so in the Conservative government and another who is being approached by Reform. All pretty similar backgrounds, less difference in general outlook than you might imagine.

    I suppose that’s what happens when the political scene is so volatile. Those seeking to “make a difference” end up hitching on a broader range of political vehicles as it’s less clear what the best bet is.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,797
    moonshine said:

    Cicero said:

    a

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    Broken back war - as they lose or use up capabilities, increasing primitive things replace them.
    The "primitive things" do not survive very long in the drone wars. The Russian death toll in the last month has accelerated still further. It is horrific the utter contempt that Putin has for human life... on his own side.

    The total failure of the Russian "Summer offensive" is now quite clear, and the Ukrainians are taking up new forward positions for the winter which only underlines the Russian defeat. In theatre the Russians are in serious trouble.

    The problem is that diplomatically, with China and now India, Russia is scoring more points, and the constant fear of American treachery is also creating European tensions. TBH, the EU should seriously punish Indian participation in Zapad. As for the UK, atm London is just a wholly owned subsidiary of Trumpistan.
    It does feel like a stretch to think Russia could genuinely threaten NATO’s eastern flank, given how ground down their military resources are. I can understand how infinite infantry makes up for lack of equipment this far into a war. Particularly against a smaller and economically weaker enemy.

    But surely Russia would need an initial shock and awe phase to take the Suwalki Gap. What are they supposed to do, line up tens of thousands of troops crossing the border from Belarus and hope that the nato countries in question don’t throw everything they have at the column?

    It does feel a little like the war games are thinking about it all wrong. It’s the “popular uprising” / Little Green Men threat in the Baltics that feels the bigger threat, rather than anything that Russia might throw at the new Maginot Line.
    The idea of any "Popular uprising" in the Baltic seems very far away here on the ground. The Russian speakers here know that they would be the first against the wall if Russia invaded in any format, especially hybrid, which is why so many have joined the local armed forces.
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    BBC "State pension likely to rise by 4.7% in April"

    It’s an opportunity for double-misery in the headlines today.

    “Wage growth ONLY 4.7%”
    “Pensioners get HUGE 4.7% pay boost”

    The late stage Sunak government faced the same headline double whammy. Wage growth has been catching up pretty healthily since the Ukraine inflation spike died down.
    If Reeves makes the "tough decision" to end the Triple lock and give a lower rise in the Budget, she will have redeemed herself somewhat.
    No call to reduce the generosity of NHS pensions?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,835

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    ISTR Ukraine have been doing this for some time; at least there was video of them doing it.

    But that's kinda the point: Ukraine are meant to be the insurgents, the lesser-capable side. Russia is meant to be the amazingly high-tech and well-resourced military. You expect the less-capable side to go for all sorts of Heath Robinson-style contraptions to get over their disadvantage. Russia having to do it is just embarrassing, because they're stronk.

    In the same way a large part of the Russian Navy has been consigned to the Deep, or port, by a country that essentially has no navy.
    Russia has always relied upon the size of its country and the size of its population to grind its way to victory with crude tactics and little regard for the lives of its troops; clever tactics and high technology haven’t been its forte.
    Considering that Trumpistan pulled the plug on US military assistance in January, the Ukranian forces have held up with a degree of resilience the Russians seem unable to cope with.

    It's not obvious what starting a war with Poland achieves in the context of making very little progress in the Donbas.
    “Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts.”
    This is relevant:

    Inside the villages living in limbo on the border between Russia and Finland

    https://metro.co.uk/2025/09/14/inside-villages-living-limbo-border-russia-finland-24007498/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,171
    MattW said:

    JD VAnce hosted the Charlie Kirk podcast from his office last night, as a fundraiser for Turning Point.

    It is here, 80 minutes long:

    https://open.spotify.com/episode/3aatgpV6s0w0kzGjiIOqml

    Even the BBC's sane washers were a little disturbed by Stephen Miller's contribution.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,314

    NEW THREAD

    Of course there is - there always is the second I post my useful contributions.
  • stodge said:

    NEW THREAD

    Of course there is - there always is the second I post my useful contributions.
    Exactly what I was thinking.. ;,.)

    C'est la vie, mon ami.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,936

    Cicero said:

    a

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    Broken back war - as they lose or use up capabilities, increasing primitive things replace them.
    The "primitive things" do not survive very long in the drone wars. The Russian death toll in the last month has accelerated still further. It is horrific the utter contempt that Putin has for human life... on his own side.

    The total failure of the Russian "Summer offensive" is now quite clear, and the Ukrainians are taking up new forward positions for the winter which only underlines the Russian defeat. In theatre the Russians are in serious trouble.

    The problem is that diplomatically, with China and now India, Russia is scoring more points, and the constant fear of American treachery is also creating European tensions. TBH, the EU should seriously punish Indian participation in Zapad. As for the UK, atm London is just a wholly owned subsidiary of Trumpistan.
    The drones are a reaction to the primitive state of the war.

    If either side were a fully modern military, slow moving drones with unhardened electronics would be wiped out.

    So they would need to be replaced with fast moving “drones” with hardened electronics and navigation, utilising signature reduction (stealth or automated terrain following. Missiles, essentially.

    But the lack of high tech *in volume* on both sides opened a window (ha!). So Russia is bombing Ukraine with Iranian drones which are little more than large remote control aircraft. And Russia is hunting drones pretty much manually.
    Russia appears to now be almost totally out of air defences protecting anywhere but central Moscow, thanks to some very good efforts from the Ukranians to take out military radars in the last few weeks.

    These radars are pretty much irreplaceable, to the point where Russia are seriously asking Turkey to sell them back two S400s that were delivered to Ankara before the war started. I’d quite like the Turkish to give them back with NATO tracking devices installed, and give Ukraine the equivalent amount of Byraktar drones in return.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,855

    stodge said:

    NEW THREAD

    Of course there is - there always is the second I post my useful contributions.
    Exactly what I was thinking.. ;,.)

    C'est la vie, mon ami.
    @TSE has a Stodge detector.

    He cannot stand Spotted Dick.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,891

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    Hmmm.20% is 2000 positions.

    The leader of Derbyshire County Council has said the authority is "20% overstaffed" and he wants to cut jobs to make the council "lean and mean".
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0r0z1zkq4ko

    Reform's austerity in Derbyshire makes even the Coalition's from 2010-2015 look small fry by comparison
    Have they started insisting people write an email saying the five things they actually did this week?

    Monday – emptied bins
    Tuesday – emptied bins
    Wednesday – emptied bins
    Thursday – emptied bins
    Friday – my turn to drive dustcart
    I never knew you worked in government communications!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,171
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Give me fucking strength.

    It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.

    So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".

    This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
    They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.

    So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
    The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.

    Including for those who actually are that.

    Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
    It seems to be ending with radical leftists shooting people at the moment. Remember, words are violence and shooting Nazis is peaceful.
    I don’t remember you getting this exercised by the murder of two Democrat state congress members a few months ago?
    Because the only emotion coming from anyone after that murder was sympathy, there weren’t tens of thousands of people online and in the media celebrating or trying to excuse the killing..
    That's not quite my recollection, FWIW.

    Note, though, that Trump doesn't even seem to recall the assassinations. What would have been the reaction had it been a controversial national Democratic figure, as opposed to a simple hard working state senator ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,171
    Cicero said:

    a

    Sandpit said:

    Russian army is apparently now commandeering old civilian private aircraft to go looking for Ukranian drones, a soldier with a gun sitting in the back!

    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1967675965875818617

    Broken back war - as they lose or use up capabilities, increasing primitive things replace them.
    The "primitive things" do not survive very long in the drone wars. The Russian death toll in the last month has accelerated still further. It is horrific the utter contempt that Putin has for human life... on his own side.

    The total failure of the Russian "Summer offensive" is now quite clear, and the Ukrainians are taking up new forward positions for the winter which only underlines the Russian defeat. In theatre the Russians are in serious trouble.

    The problem is that diplomatically, with China and now India, Russia is scoring more points, and the constant fear of American treachery is also creating European tensions. TBH, the EU should seriously punish Indian participation in Zapad. As for the UK, atm London is just a wholly owned subsidiary of Trumpistan.
    That's not going to happen.
    Apart from anything else, there's a 20bn potential Rafale deal on the line (which might also serve to help draw India away from Russia).

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