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What shall we do with the drunken sailor? If you’re Danny Kruger, join them – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,682
edited September 15 in General
What shall we do with the drunken sailor? If you’re Danny Kruger, join them – politicalbetting.com

Kruger defection to Reform obviously significant and very bad for Tories.But again, the more Reform becomes a rebranded Conservative Party – filled with former Tory MPs – the more Labour will fancy beating them at the next election.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,076
    "What shall we do with a drunken sailor" is a song by the sailor in question's somewhat-sympathetic girlfriend on the subject of brewer's droop.
    I had no idea about this until it was pointed out to me. It seems now so obvious.
  • I am a Royalist now.


    *** How did Keir Starmer win over Trump? And what’s he given up in return? ***

    I spent the summer talking to 20+ people trying to work this out for a long read

    David Lammy, Peter Mandelson, Simon Case, Chris Ruddy, No10 folks all talked

    Among what emerged…

    :: Starmer’s decision to reach out to Trump after the assassination attempt was key. Led to their first conversation

    :: Their first meeting in Trump Tower saw then candidate Trump constantly ask the PM about his victory and the Red Wall - a sign he respects winners

    :: When Starmer and Trump talk on the phone it is the President doing 90% of the talking, per those who have listened

    :: Starmer prepares a lot for his meetings with Trump. Before the first White House trip he was sent video footage of the 3 leaders who’d faced Trump already

    :: Starmer practiced handing over the state visit letter with aides. Seats arranged like the Oval Office. They war-gamed qus (inc Vance free speech jibe)

    :: Starmer’s TV state visit moment almost never came off. White House tried to take the letter off him for security reasons. A standoff ensued. Eventually defused.

    :: The PM has learned to schmooze Trump. On phone calls he praised Doge when Musk was still in White House

    :: He travelled to both of Trump’s Scottish golf courses in July - a PM putting focus on a counterpart’s commercial interests

    :: Starmer privately briefed Trump on Palestine Action spray painting his golf course with info from Police Scotland, per a source. 4 months later group banned.

    :: Starmer’s No10 aides past and present believe his lack of ego - contrasts drawn with Emmanual Macron - eases relations

    :: For some Labour MPs the deference is too much. One says the ‘sucking up’ to Trump ‘makes a mockery’ of UK values

    :: Royalty is key. Prince William’s meeting with Trump in Paris in December lasted so long it delayed a French state banquet - to the fury of Macron.

    :: Each meeting a senior Royal has with Trump is captured in a formal note by a private secretary and passed to the PM

    :: There is a depth of family friendship there too. Trump unexpectedly called Starmer on mobile after his bother died

    :: They are in touch on Signal too

    :: Key other figures in the relationship: Lammy (now moved), Mandelson (now sacked), and Jonathan Powell

    :: Plus, the secret Trump whisperer… Senay Bulbul, the UK embassy political counsellor who covers Repubs. She was almost moved to No10 to help advise

    So yes, PM had got on Trump’s good side. The bigger qu: has it helped that much??


    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1967574090761347570
  • Cookie said:

    "What shall we do with a drunken sailor" is a song by the sailor in question's somewhat-sympathetic girlfriend on the subject of brewer's droop.
    I had no idea about this until it was pointed out to me. It seems now so obvious.

    You need to get your mind out of the gutter.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,193
    Little man Zia Yusuf has been quick to point out Kruger will 'report directly to me as head of policy'
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,479
    edited September 15
    Looks like a reverse takeover of Reform by disgruntled second level Tories. They shed the skin of the last 14 years and relaunch as the new improved Reform version. There are not that many capable political types in the red wall or the BNP rejects - so retred Tories it is. With enough retreds, they could actually run a government.
  • Senior Keir Starmer aide resigns over lurid Diane Abbott comments

    Paul Ovenden, the prime minister’s director of strategy, leaves Downing Street in another blow following Peter Mandelson and Angela Rayner’s departures


    One of Sir Keir Starmer’s most senior aides has resigned after leaked messages revealed he had made lurid and explicit sexual comments about the veteran left-wing MP Diane Abbott.

    Paul Ovenden, Starmer’s director of strategy, said he was leaving Downing Street over an “inappropriate” conversation he had with colleagues while working as a Labour press officer in 2017.

    His departure is a further blow to the embattled prime minister as he faces continuing questions over his judgment in the Lord Mandelson scandal.

    Ovenden, who is close to the prime minister’s chief of staff, Morgan McSweeney, was one of a small group of Labour aides who were key to the “Starmer project” to make Labour electable again after the Corbyn years.


    Labour’s deputy director of communications at the outset of Starmer’s leadership, he later headed up the party’s attack and rebuttal unit in opposition and then moved into Downing Street before becoming director of strategy in January.

    Sources said Ovenden had planned to leave Downing Street later this month — but had brought forward his departure after being confronted about the messages that were obtained by ITV News.

    The messages are understood to be part of a huge cache of internal messages and emails that were leaked in 2020 which showed senior officials in Labour’s headquarters were openly plotting against Jeremy Corbyn.

    Those leaked messages show Ovenden discussing sex acts involving Abbott with two female staff members.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-director-strategy-resign-tbh6l5scb
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,455
    "How Peter Mandelson became a monster
    The former ambassador’s world is disintegrating

    By Aaron Bastani"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2025/09/how-peter-mandelson-became-a-monster
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,219

    Senior Keir Starmer aide resigns over lurid Diane Abbott comments

    Paul Ovenden, the prime minister’s director of strategy, leaves Downing Street in another blow following Peter Mandelson and Angela Rayner’s departures


    One of Sir Keir Starmer’s most senior aides has resigned after leaked messages revealed he had made lurid and explicit sexual comments about the veteran left-wing MP Diane Abbott.

    Paul Ovenden, Starmer’s director of strategy, said he was leaving Downing Street over an “inappropriate” conversation he had with colleagues while working as a Labour press officer in 2017.

    His departure is a further blow to the embattled prime minister as he faces continuing questions over his judgment in the Lord Mandelson scandal.

    Ovenden, who is close to the prime minister’s chief of staff, Morgan McSweeney, was one of a small group of Labour aides who were key to the “Starmer project” to make Labour electable again after the Corbyn years.


    Labour’s deputy director of communications at the outset of Starmer’s leadership, he later headed up the party’s attack and rebuttal unit in opposition and then moved into Downing Street before becoming director of strategy in January.

    Sources said Ovenden had planned to leave Downing Street later this month — but had brought forward his departure after being confronted about the messages that were obtained by ITV News.

    The messages are understood to be part of a huge cache of internal messages and emails that were leaked in 2020 which showed senior officials in Labour’s headquarters were openly plotting against Jeremy Corbyn.

    Those leaked messages show Ovenden discussing sex acts involving Abbott with two female staff members.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-director-strategy-resign-tbh6l5scb

    Is that Hodges getting a prediction right? Or was he thinking of something else?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,211
    Hmm. Somewhat disappointing- but it does add to the sense of a fortress crumbling under siege. This is like the 2nd archer on the left finally getting hit by a cannonball and falling off the battlements
  • glwglw Posts: 10,511

    :: They are in touch on Signal too

    Brilliant. So the Russians/Chinese/French will likely be reading those conversations if the Whitehouse is using the same dodgy modified Signal app, that was revealed to be in use by those leaks earlier in the year.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,193

    Senior Keir Starmer aide resigns over lurid Diane Abbott comments

    Paul Ovenden, the prime minister’s director of strategy, leaves Downing Street in another blow following Peter Mandelson and Angela Rayner’s departures


    One of Sir Keir Starmer’s most senior aides has resigned after leaked messages revealed he had made lurid and explicit sexual comments about the veteran left-wing MP Diane Abbott.

    Paul Ovenden, Starmer’s director of strategy, said he was leaving Downing Street over an “inappropriate” conversation he had with colleagues while working as a Labour press officer in 2017.

    His departure is a further blow to the embattled prime minister as he faces continuing questions over his judgment in the Lord Mandelson scandal.

    Ovenden, who is close to the prime minister’s chief of staff, Morgan McSweeney, was one of a small group of Labour aides who were key to the “Starmer project” to make Labour electable again after the Corbyn years.


    Labour’s deputy director of communications at the outset of Starmer’s leadership, he later headed up the party’s attack and rebuttal unit in opposition and then moved into Downing Street before becoming director of strategy in January.

    Sources said Ovenden had planned to leave Downing Street later this month — but had brought forward his departure after being confronted about the messages that were obtained by ITV News.

    The messages are understood to be part of a huge cache of internal messages and emails that were leaked in 2020 which showed senior officials in Labour’s headquarters were openly plotting against Jeremy Corbyn.

    Those leaked messages show Ovenden discussing sex acts involving Abbott with two female staff members.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-director-strategy-resign-tbh6l5scb

    Is that Hodges getting a prediction right? Or was he thinking of something else?
    It was broken by the Mail, Hodges knew already
  • Taxi for Starmer?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,802

    Cookie said:

    "What shall we do with a drunken sailor" is a song by the sailor in question's somewhat-sympathetic girlfriend on the subject of brewer's droop.
    I had no idea about this until it was pointed out to me. It seems now so obvious.

    You need to get your mind out of the gutter.
    But how else are we to look at the stars? :)
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,829

    I am a Royalist now.


    *** How did Keir Starmer win over Trump? And what’s he given up in return? ***

    I spent the summer talking to 20+ people trying to work this out for a long read

    David Lammy, Peter Mandelson, Simon Case, Chris Ruddy, No10 folks all talked

    Among what emerged…

    :: Starmer’s decision to reach out to Trump after the assassination attempt was key. Led to their first conversation

    :: Their first meeting in Trump Tower saw then candidate Trump constantly ask the PM about his victory and the Red Wall - a sign he respects winners

    :: When Starmer and Trump talk on the phone it is the President doing 90% of the talking, per those who have listened

    :: Starmer prepares a lot for his meetings with Trump. Before the first White House trip he was sent video footage of the 3 leaders who’d faced Trump already

    :: Starmer practiced handing over the state visit letter with aides. Seats arranged like the Oval Office. They war-gamed qus (inc Vance free speech jibe)

    :: Starmer’s TV state visit moment almost never came off. White House tried to take the letter off him for security reasons. A standoff ensued. Eventually defused.

    :: The PM has learned to schmooze Trump. On phone calls he praised Doge when Musk was still in White House

    :: He travelled to both of Trump’s Scottish golf courses in July - a PM putting focus on a counterpart’s commercial interests

    :: Starmer privately briefed Trump on Palestine Action spray painting his golf course with info from Police Scotland, per a source. 4 months later group banned.

    :: Starmer’s No10 aides past and present believe his lack of ego - contrasts drawn with Emmanual Macron - eases relations

    :: For some Labour MPs the deference is too much. One says the ‘sucking up’ to Trump ‘makes a mockery’ of UK values

    :: Royalty is key. Prince William’s meeting with Trump in Paris in December lasted so long it delayed a French state banquet - to the fury of Macron.

    :: Each meeting a senior Royal has with Trump is captured in a formal note by a private secretary and passed to the PM

    :: There is a depth of family friendship there too. Trump unexpectedly called Starmer on mobile after his bother died

    :: They are in touch on Signal too

    :: Key other figures in the relationship: Lammy (now moved), Mandelson (now sacked), and Jonathan Powell

    :: Plus, the secret Trump whisperer… Senay Bulbul, the UK embassy political counsellor who covers Repubs. She was almost moved to No10 to help advise

    So yes, PM had got on Trump’s good side. The bigger qu: has it helped that much??


    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1967574090761347570

    The implication there that hundreds of British citizens have been arrested for peaceful protest at the behest of Trump. If that's the secret reason for the draconian response to PA protestors that Ministers keep alluding to then the government is in serious trouble with the left - which was always a bigger risk to Starmer than the histrionics from the right.
  • Taxi for Starmer?

    I mentioned last week I know of at least scandal involving the Tories and another one looming, the good news is that neither involves Kemi.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,076
    Leon said:

    Hmm. Somewhat disappointing- but it does add to the sense of a fortress crumbling under siege. This is like the 2nd archer on the left finally getting hit by a cannonball and falling off the battlements
    Only because we've become inured to it and used to far more lurid scandals.
    It's always Diane Abbot, isn't it?
  • Taxi for Starmer?

    I mentioned last week I know of at least scandal involving the Tories and another one looming, the good news is that neither involves Kemi.
    Politicians need to be more careful. I'm definitely not smashing out twice-daily politics reels saying "get Britain shagging" or "we need a new Brexit referendum", calling Musk a cockwomble or publishing lengthy EV-related shenanigans on YouTube / X / TikTok. Nor am I posting on here, I am just the figment of Leon's deranged imagination.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,297
    Cookie said:

    "What shall we do with a drunken sailor" is a song by the sailor in question's somewhat-sympathetic girlfriend on the subject of brewer's droop.
    I had no idea about this until it was pointed out to me. It seems now so obvious.

    You know the girlfriend was of the rent by the hour variety
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,219
    Eabhal said:

    I am a Royalist now.


    *** How did Keir Starmer win over Trump? And what’s he given up in return? ***

    I spent the summer talking to 20+ people trying to work this out for a long read

    David Lammy, Peter Mandelson, Simon Case, Chris Ruddy, No10 folks all talked

    Among what emerged…

    :: Starmer’s decision to reach out to Trump after the assassination attempt was key. Led to their first conversation

    :: Their first meeting in Trump Tower saw then candidate Trump constantly ask the PM about his victory and the Red Wall - a sign he respects winners

    :: When Starmer and Trump talk on the phone it is the President doing 90% of the talking, per those who have listened

    :: Starmer prepares a lot for his meetings with Trump. Before the first White House trip he was sent video footage of the 3 leaders who’d faced Trump already

    :: Starmer practiced handing over the state visit letter with aides. Seats arranged like the Oval Office. They war-gamed qus (inc Vance free speech jibe)

    :: Starmer’s TV state visit moment almost never came off. White House tried to take the letter off him for security reasons. A standoff ensued. Eventually defused.

    :: The PM has learned to schmooze Trump. On phone calls he praised Doge when Musk was still in White House

    :: He travelled to both of Trump’s Scottish golf courses in July - a PM putting focus on a counterpart’s commercial interests

    :: Starmer privately briefed Trump on Palestine Action spray painting his golf course with info from Police Scotland, per a source. 4 months later group banned.

    :: Starmer’s No10 aides past and present believe his lack of ego - contrasts drawn with Emmanual Macron - eases relations

    :: For some Labour MPs the deference is too much. One says the ‘sucking up’ to Trump ‘makes a mockery’ of UK values

    :: Royalty is key. Prince William’s meeting with Trump in Paris in December lasted so long it delayed a French state banquet - to the fury of Macron.

    :: Each meeting a senior Royal has with Trump is captured in a formal note by a private secretary and passed to the PM

    :: There is a depth of family friendship there too. Trump unexpectedly called Starmer on mobile after his bother died

    :: They are in touch on Signal too

    :: Key other figures in the relationship: Lammy (now moved), Mandelson (now sacked), and Jonathan Powell

    :: Plus, the secret Trump whisperer… Senay Bulbul, the UK embassy political counsellor who covers Repubs. She was almost moved to No10 to help advise

    So yes, PM had got on Trump’s good side. The bigger qu: has it helped that much??


    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1967574090761347570

    The implication there that hundreds of British citizens have been arrested for peaceful protest at the behest of Trump. If that's the secret reason for the draconian response to PA protestors that Ministers keep alluding to then the government is in serious trouble with the left - which was always a bigger risk to Starmer than the histrionics from the right.
    I think that's unlikely. I think we have a nexus of a stupid act by the government, some stupid (but well meaning) protesters and a stupid police force. Add it together and you end up with with some very unusual 'terrorists' being arrested for holding up placards.

    But I don't think its to satisfy Trump.
  • The problem with Starmer having a resignation / firing scandal every week and Badenoch a defection to Refuk every week is that there's a risk they happen at the same time.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,289
    Is that it ? Very underwhelming.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,193

    The problem with Starmer having a resignation / firing scandal every week and Badenoch a defection to Refuk every week is that there's a risk they happen at the same time.

    Takes eyes off Lib Dems calling for Davey to fall off his Paddle Board into history too
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,193
    nico67 said:

    Is that it ? Very underwhelming.
    My whelm is undered for sure
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,258
    edited September 15
    Labour will fancy their chances even more so if the type of Tories defecting to Reform are ex ERG anti gay marriage and anti abortion Tory MPs like Kruger, miles from Cameroons or even Boris' policies in government. Tactical votes could re elect Labour alone against them, even if they need LD confidence and supply in a hung parliament.

    Kruger did say though that he had some admiration for Kemi, this is more Kruger taking revenge on the Cameron and Sunak wing of the Tory Party. Though equally the more the likes of Kruger leave the Tory parliamentary party and Tory membership, the easier it is for a moderate like Cleverly to be elected to replace Kemi as Tory leader which would worry Labour more

  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,403
    edited September 15

    I am a Royalist now.


    *** How did Keir Starmer win over Trump? And what’s he given up in return? ***

    I spent the summer talking to 20+ people trying to work this out for a long read

    David Lammy, Peter Mandelson, Simon Case, Chris Ruddy, No10 folks all talked

    Among what emerged…

    :: Starmer’s decision to reach out to Trump after the assassination attempt was key. Led to their first conversation

    :: Their first meeting in Trump Tower saw then candidate Trump constantly ask the PM about his victory and the Red Wall - a sign he respects winners

    :: When Starmer and Trump talk on the phone it is the President doing 90% of the talking, per those who have listened

    :: Starmer prepares a lot for his meetings with Trump. Before the first White House trip he was sent video footage of the 3 leaders who’d faced Trump already

    :: Starmer practiced handing over the state visit letter with aides. Seats arranged like the Oval Office. They war-gamed qus (inc Vance free speech jibe)

    :: Starmer’s TV state visit moment almost never came off. White House tried to take the letter off him for security reasons. A standoff ensued. Eventually defused.

    :: The PM has learned to schmooze Trump. On phone calls he praised Doge when Musk was still in White House

    :: He travelled to both of Trump’s Scottish golf courses in July - a PM putting focus on a counterpart’s commercial interests

    :: Starmer privately briefed Trump on Palestine Action spray painting his golf course with info from Police Scotland, per a source. 4 months later group banned.

    :: Starmer’s No10 aides past and present believe his lack of ego - contrasts drawn with Emmanual Macron - eases relations

    :: For some Labour MPs the deference is too much. One says the ‘sucking up’ to Trump ‘makes a mockery’ of UK values

    :: Royalty is key. Prince William’s meeting with Trump in Paris in December lasted so long it delayed a French state banquet - to the fury of Macron.

    :: Each meeting a senior Royal has with Trump is captured in a formal note by a private secretary and passed to the PM

    :: There is a depth of family friendship there too. Trump unexpectedly called Starmer on mobile after his bother died

    :: They are in touch on Signal too

    :: Key other figures in the relationship: Lammy (now moved), Mandelson (now sacked), and Jonathan Powell

    :: Plus, the secret Trump whisperer… Senay Bulbul, the UK embassy political counsellor who covers Repubs. She was almost moved to No10 to help advise

    So yes, PM had got on Trump’s good side. The bigger qu: has it helped that much??


    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1967574090761347570

    It's actually astonishing that Reform voters dislike Sir Keir to the level that they do. I can't see a cigarette paper's width between his approach and Nigel's. It can only be a tribal thing. If the Nigel thing starts to fade, I can see a lot of Reform voters drifting to Labour.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,289
    The media need to stop flogging a dead horse . Mandelson Gate needs to be put out of its misery now .
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,507
    edited September 15
    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    "What shall we do with a drunken sailor" is a song by the sailor in question's somewhat-sympathetic girlfriend on the subject of brewer's droop.
    I had no idea about this until it was pointed out to me. It seems now so obvious.

    You know the girlfriend was of the rent by the hour variety
    Surely it's a work song for weighing the anchor etc by hand windlass or capstan, to coordinate the rhythm - and the drunk is lying blotto after his last run ashore and NOT DOING HIS SHARE OF THE WORK.

    Ransome would never have put it into Swallows and Amazons books (IIRC - and it is in the eponymous film) if Cookie's informant was right.

    The captain's daughter element is apparently a modern concoction by a bunch of landlubbers.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,924
    nico67 said:

    The media need to stop flogging a dead horse . Mandelson Gate needs to be put out of its misery now .

    It's still twitching. If it turns out that statements on who knew what, when, are... problematic, then that is the classic second stage scandal.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,805
    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    "What shall we do with a drunken sailor" is a song by the sailor in question's somewhat-sympathetic girlfriend on the subject of brewer's droop.
    I had no idea about this until it was pointed out to me. It seems now so obvious.

    You know the girlfriend was of the rent by the hour variety
    Are you sure that they don't charge for each 6 minutes, like lawyers?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,258

    Little man Zia Yusuf has been quick to point out Kruger will 'report directly to me as head of policy'

    He may think that, Kruger couldn't possible comment
  • Eabhal said:

    I am a Royalist now.


    *** How did Keir Starmer win over Trump? And what’s he given up in return? ***

    I spent the summer talking to 20+ people trying to work this out for a long read

    David Lammy, Peter Mandelson, Simon Case, Chris Ruddy, No10 folks all talked

    Among what emerged…

    :: Starmer’s decision to reach out to Trump after the assassination attempt was key. Led to their first conversation

    :: Their first meeting in Trump Tower saw then candidate Trump constantly ask the PM about his victory and the Red Wall - a sign he respects winners

    :: When Starmer and Trump talk on the phone it is the President doing 90% of the talking, per those who have listened

    :: Starmer prepares a lot for his meetings with Trump. Before the first White House trip he was sent video footage of the 3 leaders who’d faced Trump already

    :: Starmer practiced handing over the state visit letter with aides. Seats arranged like the Oval Office. They war-gamed qus (inc Vance free speech jibe)

    :: Starmer’s TV state visit moment almost never came off. White House tried to take the letter off him for security reasons. A standoff ensued. Eventually defused.

    :: The PM has learned to schmooze Trump. On phone calls he praised Doge when Musk was still in White House

    :: He travelled to both of Trump’s Scottish golf courses in July - a PM putting focus on a counterpart’s commercial interests

    :: Starmer privately briefed Trump on Palestine Action spray painting his golf course with info from Police Scotland, per a source. 4 months later group banned.

    :: Starmer’s No10 aides past and present believe his lack of ego - contrasts drawn with Emmanual Macron - eases relations

    :: For some Labour MPs the deference is too much. One says the ‘sucking up’ to Trump ‘makes a mockery’ of UK values

    :: Royalty is key. Prince William’s meeting with Trump in Paris in December lasted so long it delayed a French state banquet - to the fury of Macron.

    :: Each meeting a senior Royal has with Trump is captured in a formal note by a private secretary and passed to the PM

    :: There is a depth of family friendship there too. Trump unexpectedly called Starmer on mobile after his bother died

    :: They are in touch on Signal too

    :: Key other figures in the relationship: Lammy (now moved), Mandelson (now sacked), and Jonathan Powell

    :: Plus, the secret Trump whisperer… Senay Bulbul, the UK embassy political counsellor who covers Repubs. She was almost moved to No10 to help advise

    So yes, PM had got on Trump’s good side. The bigger qu: has it helped that much??


    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1967574090761347570

    The implication there that hundreds of British citizens have been arrested for peaceful protest at the behest of Trump. If that's the secret reason for the draconian response to PA protestors that Ministers keep alluding to then the government is in serious trouble with the left - which was always a bigger risk to Starmer than the histrionics from the right.
    It's not, Palestine Action were causing threats to both our military readiness and our support to Ukraine, they needed to nip this in the bud.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,289

    nico67 said:

    The media need to stop flogging a dead horse . Mandelson Gate needs to be put out of its misery now .

    It's still twitching. If it turns out that statements on who knew what, when, are... problematic, then that is the classic second stage scandal.
    I can’t see it. Starmer seems to have got the timings covered for .
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,924

    Eabhal said:

    I am a Royalist now.


    *** How did Keir Starmer win over Trump? And what’s he given up in return? ***

    I spent the summer talking to 20+ people trying to work this out for a long read

    David Lammy, Peter Mandelson, Simon Case, Chris Ruddy, No10 folks all talked

    Among what emerged…

    :: Starmer’s decision to reach out to Trump after the assassination attempt was key. Led to their first conversation

    :: Their first meeting in Trump Tower saw then candidate Trump constantly ask the PM about his victory and the Red Wall - a sign he respects winners

    :: When Starmer and Trump talk on the phone it is the President doing 90% of the talking, per those who have listened

    :: Starmer prepares a lot for his meetings with Trump. Before the first White House trip he was sent video footage of the 3 leaders who’d faced Trump already

    :: Starmer practiced handing over the state visit letter with aides. Seats arranged like the Oval Office. They war-gamed qus (inc Vance free speech jibe)

    :: Starmer’s TV state visit moment almost never came off. White House tried to take the letter off him for security reasons. A standoff ensued. Eventually defused.

    :: The PM has learned to schmooze Trump. On phone calls he praised Doge when Musk was still in White House

    :: He travelled to both of Trump’s Scottish golf courses in July - a PM putting focus on a counterpart’s commercial interests

    :: Starmer privately briefed Trump on Palestine Action spray painting his golf course with info from Police Scotland, per a source. 4 months later group banned.

    :: Starmer’s No10 aides past and present believe his lack of ego - contrasts drawn with Emmanual Macron - eases relations

    :: For some Labour MPs the deference is too much. One says the ‘sucking up’ to Trump ‘makes a mockery’ of UK values

    :: Royalty is key. Prince William’s meeting with Trump in Paris in December lasted so long it delayed a French state banquet - to the fury of Macron.

    :: Each meeting a senior Royal has with Trump is captured in a formal note by a private secretary and passed to the PM

    :: There is a depth of family friendship there too. Trump unexpectedly called Starmer on mobile after his bother died

    :: They are in touch on Signal too

    :: Key other figures in the relationship: Lammy (now moved), Mandelson (now sacked), and Jonathan Powell

    :: Plus, the secret Trump whisperer… Senay Bulbul, the UK embassy political counsellor who covers Repubs. She was almost moved to No10 to help advise

    So yes, PM had got on Trump’s good side. The bigger qu: has it helped that much??


    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1967574090761347570

    The implication there that hundreds of British citizens have been arrested for peaceful protest at the behest of Trump. If that's the secret reason for the draconian response to PA protestors that Ministers keep alluding to then the government is in serious trouble with the left - which was always a bigger risk to Starmer than the histrionics from the right.
    I think that's unlikely. I think we have a nexus of a stupid act by the government, some stupid (but well meaning) protesters and a stupid police force. Add it together and you end up with with some very unusual 'terrorists' being arrested for holding up placards.

    But I don't think its to satisfy Trump.
    Labour as form with bizarre threat estimation. Fathers For Justice and tree climbing greens were treated as terroristic threats - complete with illegal inflation operations against them. While actual terrorists were treated as community leaders.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,193
    edited September 15
    HYUFD said:

    Little man Zia Yusuf has been quick to point out Kruger will 'report directly to me as head of policy'

    He may think that, Kruger couldn't possible comment
    Hes already planning which of Pochin, Anderson and Tice to knife next
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,805
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    "What shall we do with a drunken sailor" is a song by the sailor in question's somewhat-sympathetic girlfriend on the subject of brewer's droop.
    I had no idea about this until it was pointed out to me. It seems now so obvious.

    You know the girlfriend was of the rent by the hour variety
    Surely it's a work song for weighing the anchor etc by hand windlass or capstan, to coordinate the rhythm - and the drunk is lying blotto after his last run ashore and NOT DOING HIS SHARE OF THE WORK.

    Ransome would never have put it into Swallows and Amazons books (IIRC - and it is in the eponymous film) if Cookie's informant was right.

    The captain's daughter element is apparently a modern concoction by a bunch of landlubbers.
    Heave Ho, Me Hearties !

    Arthur Ransome wasn't exactly as pure as the driven snow - I did not know until I looked it up that he was linked to Trotsky's Secretary.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,817
    Battlebus said:

    Looks like a reverse takeover of Reform by disgruntled second level Tories. They shed the skin of the last 14 years and relaunch as the new improved Reform version. There are not that many capable political types in the red wall or the BNP rejects - so retred Tories it is. With enough retreds, they could actually run a government.

    A different colour rosette is no cure for incompetence
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,193
    edited September 15
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    The media need to stop flogging a dead horse . Mandelson Gate needs to be put out of its misery now .

    It's still twitching. If it turns out that statements on who knew what, when, are... problematic, then that is the classic second stage scandal.
    I can’t see it. Starmer seems to have got the timings covered for .
    Hes got them balanced on the head of a pin and he needs a piss
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,289
    The media are now moving onto why Starmer gave Mandelson the job to begin with after the timings issue deflated .Which we’ve all wondered about . Of course Starmer can’t say that one sleazebag should get on well with another one !
  • HYUFD said:

    Labour will fancy their chances even more so if the type of Tories defecting to Reform are ex ERG anti gay marriage and anti abortion Tory MPs like Kruger, miles from Cameroons or even Boris' policies in government. Tactical votes could re elect Labour alone against them, even if they need LD confidence and supply in a hung parliament.

    Kruger did say though that he had some admiration for Kemi, this is more Kruger taking revenge on the Cameron and Sunak wing of the Tory Party. Though equally the more the likes of Kruger leave the Tory parliamentary party and Tory membership, the easier it is for a moderate like Cleverly to be elected to replace Kemi as Tory leader which would worry Labour more

    An occassion we do agree and why I remain a conservative even if I am the only one

    I do wonder those labour, lib dems and others hoping for the demise of the conservative party are ready for 5 years of Farage and Reform because that is where it will lead
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,403
    JD Vance might have a point about the suppression of free-speech in Europe after all. Bob Vylan has been banned for making an off-colour remark.

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2025/sep/15/bob-vylan-gig-in-netherlands-cancelled-after-frontman-makes-comments-about-death-of-charlie-kirk
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,190
    @ShehabKhan

    🚨 EXCLUSIVE: These are the messages sent by Paul Ovenden, one of Keir Starmer’s most senior Downing Street advisers, where he repeats sexually explicit and offensive comments about Diane Abbott - ultimately leading to his resignation:

    https://x.com/ShehabKhan/status/1967590269446193396
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,204
    edited September 15
    nico67 said:

    The media need to stop flogging a dead horse . Mandelson Gate needs to be put out of its misery now .

    I assume you said the same thing abour Partygate with Johnson

    Furthermore, if you had heard the Epstein family's victims interview with Trevor Phillips yesterday about Mandelson, you may not be so quick to want the story burried
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,182
    edited September 15
    deleted
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,507
    edited September 15
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    "What shall we do with a drunken sailor" is a song by the sailor in question's somewhat-sympathetic girlfriend on the subject of brewer's droop.
    I had no idea about this until it was pointed out to me. It seems now so obvious.

    You know the girlfriend was of the rent by the hour variety
    Surely it's a work song for weighing the anchor etc by hand windlass or capstan, to coordinate the rhythm - and the drunk is lying blotto after his last run ashore and NOT DOING HIS SHARE OF THE WORK.

    Ransome would never have put it into Swallows and Amazons books (IIRC - and it is in the eponymous film) if Cookie's informant was right.

    The captain's daughter element is apparently a modern concoction by a bunch of landlubbers.
    Heave Ho, Me Hearties !

    Arthur Ransome wasn't exactly as pure as the driven snow - I did not know until I looked it up that he was linked to Trotsky's Secretary.
    Also an informant/intelligence asset to the UK secret services IIRc - but I don't know enough to make a judgement call.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,193
    Sounds like Kruger will chicken run. 'Leaving East Wiltshire' its 'not a target for Reform'
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,289
    edited September 15

    nico67 said:

    The media need to stop flogging a dead horse . Mandelson Gate needs to be put out of its misery now .

    I assume you said the same thing abour Partygate with Johnson

    Furthrmore, if you had heard the Epstein family's interview with Trevor Phillips yesterday about Mandelson, you may not be so quick to want the story burried
    I don’t want the story buried to protect Starmer , you know my thoughts about the PM but I think it’s going nowhere now . We all know Mandelson shouldn’t have been given the job . I did see the Epstein victims family interview on LK which was very sad but it’s upto those in the USA to hold people accountable.
  • nico67 said:

    The media are now moving onto why Starmer gave Mandelson the job to begin with after the timings issue deflated .Which we’ve all wondered about . Of course Starmer can’t say that one sleazebag should get on well with another one !

    That was the central question by Epstein's family victims yesterday and listening to the interview and their tears was very difficult
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,832

    Sounds like Kruger will chicken run. 'Leaving East Wiltshire' its 'not a target for Reform'

    Be interesting to see if any Tories want to chicken run into it...
  • Scott_xP said:

    @ShehabKhan

    🚨 EXCLUSIVE: These are the messages sent by Paul Ovenden, one of Keir Starmer’s most senior Downing Street advisers, where he repeats sexually explicit and offensive comments about Diane Abbott - ultimately leading to his resignation:

    https://x.com/ShehabKhan/status/1967590269446193396

    Disgusting and wholly unacceptable

    More questions for Starmer

    Has been live on TV yet ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,125
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    "What shall we do with a drunken sailor" is a song by the sailor in question's somewhat-sympathetic girlfriend on the subject of brewer's droop.
    I had no idea about this until it was pointed out to me. It seems now so obvious.

    You know the girlfriend was of the rent by the hour variety
    Surely it's a work song for weighing the anchor etc by hand windlass or capstan, to coordinate the rhythm - and the drunk is lying blotto after his last run ashore and NOT DOING HIS SHARE OF THE WORK.

    Ransome would never have put it into Swallows and Amazons books (IIRC - and it is in the eponymous film) if Cookie's informant was right. .
    Why not ? - he was likely as innocent as Cookie was.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,193
    Lennon said:

    Sounds like Kruger will chicken run. 'Leaving East Wiltshire' its 'not a target for Reform'

    Be interesting to see if any Tories want to chicken run into it...
    Kruger calls it 'one if the safest Tory seats' so plenty id imagine.
    They carried it in the May locals rather easily
  • nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    The media need to stop flogging a dead horse . Mandelson Gate needs to be put out of its misery now .

    I assume you said the same thing abour Partygate with Johnson

    Furthrmore, if you had heard the Epstein family's interview with Trevor Phillips yesterday about Mandelson, you may not be so quick to want the story burried
    I don’t want the story buried to protect Starmer , you know my thoughts about the PM but I think it’s going nowhere now . We all know Mandelson shouldn’t have been given the job . I did see the Epstein victims family interview on LK which was very sad but it’s upto those in the USA to hold people accountable.
    Not when it involves someone like Prince Andrew and Mandelson

    The interview I saw was on Sky with Sir Trevor Phillips
  • novanova Posts: 920

    JD Vance might have a point about the suppression of free-speech in Europe after all. Bob Vylan has been banned for making an off-colour remark.

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2025/sep/15/bob-vylan-gig-in-netherlands-cancelled-after-frontman-makes-comments-about-death-of-charlie-kirk

    Looking forward to Bob Vylan's freedom tour of the USA.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,507
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    "What shall we do with a drunken sailor" is a song by the sailor in question's somewhat-sympathetic girlfriend on the subject of brewer's droop.
    I had no idea about this until it was pointed out to me. It seems now so obvious.

    You know the girlfriend was of the rent by the hour variety
    Surely it's a work song for weighing the anchor etc by hand windlass or capstan, to coordinate the rhythm - and the drunk is lying blotto after his last run ashore and NOT DOING HIS SHARE OF THE WORK.

    Ransome would never have put it into Swallows and Amazons books (IIRC - and it is in the eponymous film) if Cookie's informant was right. .
    Why not ? - he was likely as innocent as Cookie was.
    Him? Could be, but the song feels too specific for me, plus Ransome was dependent ion his writing and surely wouldn't risk that for a children's book c. 1920-30.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,125
    .

    Eabhal said:

    I am a Royalist now.


    *** How did Keir Starmer win over Trump? And what’s he given up in return? ***

    I spent the summer talking to 20+ people trying to work this out for a long read

    David Lammy, Peter Mandelson, Simon Case, Chris Ruddy, No10 folks all talked

    Among what emerged…

    :: Starmer’s decision to reach out to Trump after the assassination attempt was key. Led to their first conversation

    :: Their first meeting in Trump Tower saw then candidate Trump constantly ask the PM about his victory and the Red Wall - a sign he respects winners

    :: When Starmer and Trump talk on the phone it is the President doing 90% of the talking, per those who have listened

    :: Starmer prepares a lot for his meetings with Trump. Before the first White House trip he was sent video footage of the 3 leaders who’d faced Trump already

    :: Starmer practiced handing over the state visit letter with aides. Seats arranged like the Oval Office. They war-gamed qus (inc Vance free speech jibe)

    :: Starmer’s TV state visit moment almost never came off. White House tried to take the letter off him for security reasons. A standoff ensued. Eventually defused.

    :: The PM has learned to schmooze Trump. On phone calls he praised Doge when Musk was still in White House

    :: He travelled to both of Trump’s Scottish golf courses in July - a PM putting focus on a counterpart’s commercial interests

    :: Starmer privately briefed Trump on Palestine Action spray painting his golf course with info from Police Scotland, per a source. 4 months later group banned.

    :: Starmer’s No10 aides past and present believe his lack of ego - contrasts drawn with Emmanual Macron - eases relations

    :: For some Labour MPs the deference is too much. One says the ‘sucking up’ to Trump ‘makes a mockery’ of UK values

    :: Royalty is key. Prince William’s meeting with Trump in Paris in December lasted so long it delayed a French state banquet - to the fury of Macron.

    :: Each meeting a senior Royal has with Trump is captured in a formal note by a private secretary and passed to the PM

    :: There is a depth of family friendship there too. Trump unexpectedly called Starmer on mobile after his bother died

    :: They are in touch on Signal too

    :: Key other figures in the relationship: Lammy (now moved), Mandelson (now sacked), and Jonathan Powell

    :: Plus, the secret Trump whisperer… Senay Bulbul, the UK embassy political counsellor who covers Repubs. She was almost moved to No10 to help advise

    So yes, PM had got on Trump’s good side. The bigger qu: has it helped that much??


    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1967574090761347570

    The implication there that hundreds of British citizens have been arrested for peaceful protest at the behest of Trump. If that's the secret reason for the draconian response to PA protestors that Ministers keep alluding to then the government is in serious trouble with the left - which was always a bigger risk to Starmer than the histrionics from the right.
    I think that's unlikely. I think we have a nexus of a stupid act by the government, some stupid (but well meaning) protesters and a stupid police force. Add it together and you end up with with some very unusual 'terrorists' being arrested for holding up placards.

    But I don't think its to satisfy Trump.
    Labour as form with bizarre threat estimation. Fathers For Justice and tree climbing greens were treated as terroristic threats - complete with illegal inflation operations against them. While actual terrorists were treated as community leaders.
    What is an illegal inflation operation ?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,340
    edited September 15

    HYUFD said:

    Labour will fancy their chances even more so if the type of Tories defecting to Reform are ex ERG anti gay marriage and anti abortion Tory MPs like Kruger, miles from Cameroons or even Boris' policies in government. Tactical votes could re elect Labour alone against them, even if they need LD confidence and supply in a hung parliament.

    Kruger did say though that he had some admiration for Kemi, this is more Kruger taking revenge on the Cameron and Sunak wing of the Tory Party. Though equally the more the likes of Kruger leave the Tory parliamentary party and Tory membership, the easier it is for a moderate like Cleverly to be elected to replace Kemi as Tory leader which would worry Labour more

    An occassion we do agree and why I remain a conservative even if I am the only one

    I do wonder those labour, lib dems and others hoping for the demise of the conservative party are ready for 5 years of Farage and Reform because that is where it will lead
    I hope for the survival of the one nation sensible pragmatic conservative party as a valuable component of our polity.
    There is a place for it. I hope it can take it. Boris destroyed it in 2019. Cleverly just might be able to restore it.

    EDIT I feel the same about a Labour party focused on social justice and improvements to public servcies.
  • Little man Zia Yusuf has been quick to point out Kruger will 'report directly to me as head of policy'

    If that is true (and I have no reason to doubt Wooliedyed whatsoever) then it's a statement that deserves a lot more scrutiny! An elected Member of Parliament is answerable to the House and to his/her constituents - not some paid lackey employed by a limited company. Obviously, there's always going to be a degree of "persuasive authority" in the relationships between MPs, constituents, the Speaker, the Whips, the Party Leader, the unions, lobbyists, companies etc etc etc. but the principle is clear. And if Zia Yusuf doesn't like it, then he should be summoned to the Bar of the House and reminded of his piffling insignificance.
  • JD Vance might have a point about the suppression of free-speech in Europe after all. Bob Vylan has been banned for making an off-colour remark.

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2025/sep/15/bob-vylan-gig-in-netherlands-cancelled-after-frontman-makes-comments-about-death-of-charlie-kirk

    Why are people confusing free speech with consequence-free speech?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,869

    Senior Keir Starmer aide resigns over lurid Diane Abbott comments

    Paul Ovenden, the prime minister’s director of strategy, leaves Downing Street in another blow following Peter Mandelson and Angela Rayner’s departures


    One of Sir Keir Starmer’s most senior aides has resigned after leaked messages revealed he had made lurid and explicit sexual comments about the veteran left-wing MP Diane Abbott.

    Paul Ovenden, Starmer’s director of strategy, said he was leaving Downing Street over an “inappropriate” conversation he had with colleagues while working as a Labour press officer in 2017.

    His departure is a further blow to the embattled prime minister as he faces continuing questions over his judgment in the Lord Mandelson scandal.

    Ovenden, who is close to the prime minister’s chief of staff, Morgan McSweeney, was one of a small group of Labour aides who were key to the “Starmer project” to make Labour electable again after the Corbyn years.


    Labour’s deputy director of communications at the outset of Starmer’s leadership, he later headed up the party’s attack and rebuttal unit in opposition and then moved into Downing Street before becoming director of strategy in January.

    Sources said Ovenden had planned to leave Downing Street later this month — but had brought forward his departure after being confronted about the messages that were obtained by ITV News.

    The messages are understood to be part of a huge cache of internal messages and emails that were leaked in 2020 which showed senior officials in Labour’s headquarters were openly plotting against Jeremy Corbyn.

    Those leaked messages show Ovenden discussing sex acts involving Abbott with two female staff members.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-director-strategy-resign-tbh6l5scb

    A conversation in 2017 that was leaked in 2020… why now? Cui bono?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,193

    Lennon said:

    Sounds like Kruger will chicken run. 'Leaving East Wiltshire' its 'not a target for Reform'

    Be interesting to see if any Tories want to chicken run into it...
    Kruger calls it 'one if the safest Tory seats' so plenty id imagine.
    They carried it in the May locals rather easily
    Just done some quick calcs. Labour didn't bother standing but in the wards making up East Wiltshire in May the Cons finished about 2100 votes ahead of Reform with the LDs a further 1300 behind
  • Senior Keir Starmer aide resigns over lurid Diane Abbott comments

    Paul Ovenden, the prime minister’s director of strategy, leaves Downing Street in another blow following Peter Mandelson and Angela Rayner’s departures


    One of Sir Keir Starmer’s most senior aides has resigned after leaked messages revealed he had made lurid and explicit sexual comments about the veteran left-wing MP Diane Abbott.

    Paul Ovenden, Starmer’s director of strategy, said he was leaving Downing Street over an “inappropriate” conversation he had with colleagues while working as a Labour press officer in 2017.

    His departure is a further blow to the embattled prime minister as he faces continuing questions over his judgment in the Lord Mandelson scandal.

    Ovenden, who is close to the prime minister’s chief of staff, Morgan McSweeney, was one of a small group of Labour aides who were key to the “Starmer project” to make Labour electable again after the Corbyn years.


    Labour’s deputy director of communications at the outset of Starmer’s leadership, he later headed up the party’s attack and rebuttal unit in opposition and then moved into Downing Street before becoming director of strategy in January.

    Sources said Ovenden had planned to leave Downing Street later this month — but had brought forward his departure after being confronted about the messages that were obtained by ITV News.

    The messages are understood to be part of a huge cache of internal messages and emails that were leaked in 2020 which showed senior officials in Labour’s headquarters were openly plotting against Jeremy Corbyn.

    Those leaked messages show Ovenden discussing sex acts involving Abbott with two female staff members.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-director-strategy-resign-tbh6l5scb

    A conversation in 2017 that was leaked in 2020… why now? Cui bono?
    Civil war in No 10 ?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,924
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Eabhal said:

    I am a Royalist now.


    *** How did Keir Starmer win over Trump? And what’s he given up in return? ***

    I spent the summer talking to 20+ people trying to work this out for a long read

    David Lammy, Peter Mandelson, Simon Case, Chris Ruddy, No10 folks all talked

    Among what emerged…

    :: Starmer’s decision to reach out to Trump after the assassination attempt was key. Led to their first conversation

    :: Their first meeting in Trump Tower saw then candidate Trump constantly ask the PM about his victory and the Red Wall - a sign he respects winners

    :: When Starmer and Trump talk on the phone it is the President doing 90% of the talking, per those who have listened

    :: Starmer prepares a lot for his meetings with Trump. Before the first White House trip he was sent video footage of the 3 leaders who’d faced Trump already

    :: Starmer practiced handing over the state visit letter with aides. Seats arranged like the Oval Office. They war-gamed qus (inc Vance free speech jibe)

    :: Starmer’s TV state visit moment almost never came off. White House tried to take the letter off him for security reasons. A standoff ensued. Eventually defused.

    :: The PM has learned to schmooze Trump. On phone calls he praised Doge when Musk was still in White House

    :: He travelled to both of Trump’s Scottish golf courses in July - a PM putting focus on a counterpart’s commercial interests

    :: Starmer privately briefed Trump on Palestine Action spray painting his golf course with info from Police Scotland, per a source. 4 months later group banned.

    :: Starmer’s No10 aides past and present believe his lack of ego - contrasts drawn with Emmanual Macron - eases relations

    :: For some Labour MPs the deference is too much. One says the ‘sucking up’ to Trump ‘makes a mockery’ of UK values

    :: Royalty is key. Prince William’s meeting with Trump in Paris in December lasted so long it delayed a French state banquet - to the fury of Macron.

    :: Each meeting a senior Royal has with Trump is captured in a formal note by a private secretary and passed to the PM

    :: There is a depth of family friendship there too. Trump unexpectedly called Starmer on mobile after his bother died

    :: They are in touch on Signal too

    :: Key other figures in the relationship: Lammy (now moved), Mandelson (now sacked), and Jonathan Powell

    :: Plus, the secret Trump whisperer… Senay Bulbul, the UK embassy political counsellor who covers Repubs. She was almost moved to No10 to help advise

    So yes, PM had got on Trump’s good side. The bigger qu: has it helped that much??


    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1967574090761347570

    The implication there that hundreds of British citizens have been arrested for peaceful protest at the behest of Trump. If that's the secret reason for the draconian response to PA protestors that Ministers keep alluding to then the government is in serious trouble with the left - which was always a bigger risk to Starmer than the histrionics from the right.
    I think that's unlikely. I think we have a nexus of a stupid act by the government, some stupid (but well meaning) protesters and a stupid police force. Add it together and you end up with with some very unusual 'terrorists' being arrested for holding up placards.

    But I don't think its to satisfy Trump.
    Labour as form with bizarre threat estimation. Fathers For Justice and tree climbing greens were treated as terroristic threats - complete with illegal inflation operations against them. While actual terrorists were treated as community leaders.
    What is an illegal inflation operation ?
    Bloody auto incorrect - infiltration operations. Strangely, run by ACPO, which had no legal authority to run anything.

    The court cases about women who were taken advantage of by police officers during the operations involving the tree climbing greens are ongoing, I believe.

    The cynical suggest that the police were much happier hanging out with hippies than the mad head chopper types.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,403

    JD Vance might have a point about the suppression of free-speech in Europe after all. Bob Vylan has been banned for making an off-colour remark.

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2025/sep/15/bob-vylan-gig-in-netherlands-cancelled-after-frontman-makes-comments-about-death-of-charlie-kirk

    Why are people confusing free speech with consequence-free speech?
    It's a distinction without merit.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,307
    Interesting short story about how layers of Ministerial and Civil Service bureaucracy are holding back reform and procurement in the military, won’t be a surprise to most here but good to hear it from recent top man.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/sep/15/online-meetings-and-bureaucracy-delaying-mod-reform-says-former-military-chief
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,869
    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    "What shall we do with a drunken sailor" is a song by the sailor in question's somewhat-sympathetic girlfriend on the subject of brewer's droop.
    I had no idea about this until it was pointed out to me. It seems now so obvious.

    You need to get your mind out of the gutter.
    But how else are we to look at the stars? :)
    As I once heard someone say as a put down:

    “We are all in the gutter, it’s just some of us are there by choice”
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,193
    edited September 15

    Little man Zia Yusuf has been quick to point out Kruger will 'report directly to me as head of policy'

    If that is true (and I have no reason to doubt Wooliedyed whatsoever) then it's a statement that deserves a lot more scrutiny! An elected Member of Parliament is answerable to the House and to his/her constituents - not some paid lackey employed by a limited company. Obviously, there's always going to be a degree of "persuasive authority" in the relationships between MPs, constituents, the Speaker, the Whips, the Party Leader, the unions, lobbyists, companies etc etc etc. but the principle is clear. And if Zia Yusuf doesn't like it, then he should be summoned to the Bar of the House and reminded of his piffling insignificance.
    I think he means in Krugers capacity of 'preparing for government'

    https://x.com/ZiaYusufUK/status/1967532309428465840?s=19
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,182

    Little man Zia Yusuf has been quick to point out Kruger will 'report directly to me as head of policy'

    If that is true (and I have no reason to doubt Wooliedyed whatsoever) then it's a statement that deserves a lot more scrutiny! An elected Member of Parliament is answerable to the House and to his/her constituents - not some paid lackey employed by a limited company. Obviously, there's always going to be a degree of "persuasive authority" in the relationships between MPs, constituents, the Speaker, the Whips, the Party Leader, the unions, lobbyists, companies etc etc etc. but the principle is clear. And if Zia Yusuf doesn't like it, then he should be summoned to the Bar of the House and reminded of his piffling insignificance.
    The statement is presumably specifically in terms of Kruger's proposed role in developing party policy. I don't think there is any suggestion that Yusuf is Kruger's boss in terms of his Parliamentary duties.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,869
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    "What shall we do with a drunken sailor" is a song by the sailor in question's somewhat-sympathetic girlfriend on the subject of brewer's droop.
    I had no idea about this until it was pointed out to me. It seems now so obvious.

    You know the girlfriend was of the rent by the hour variety
    Surely it's a work song for weighing the anchor etc by hand windlass or capstan, to coordinate the rhythm - and the drunk is lying blotto after his last run ashore and NOT DOING HIS SHARE OF THE WORK.

    Ransome would never have put it into Swallows and Amazons books (IIRC - and it is in the eponymous film) if Cookie's informant was right.

    The captain's daughter element is apparently a modern concoction by a bunch of landlubbers.
    The “captain’s daughter” is the cat o’nine tails. He’s going to be punished for being drunk on duty
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,053

    Senior Keir Starmer aide resigns over lurid Diane Abbott comments

    Paul Ovenden, the prime minister’s director of strategy, leaves Downing Street in another blow following Peter Mandelson and Angela Rayner’s departures


    One of Sir Keir Starmer’s most senior aides has resigned after leaked messages revealed he had made lurid and explicit sexual comments about the veteran left-wing MP Diane Abbott.

    Paul Ovenden, Starmer’s director of strategy, said he was leaving Downing Street over an “inappropriate” conversation he had with colleagues while working as a Labour press officer in 2017.

    His departure is a further blow to the embattled prime minister as he faces continuing questions over his judgment in the Lord Mandelson scandal.

    Ovenden, who is close to the prime minister’s chief of staff, Morgan McSweeney, was one of a small group of Labour aides who were key to the “Starmer project” to make Labour electable again after the Corbyn years.


    Labour’s deputy director of communications at the outset of Starmer’s leadership, he later headed up the party’s attack and rebuttal unit in opposition and then moved into Downing Street before becoming director of strategy in January.

    Sources said Ovenden had planned to leave Downing Street later this month — but had brought forward his departure after being confronted about the messages that were obtained by ITV News.

    The messages are understood to be part of a huge cache of internal messages and emails that were leaked in 2020 which showed senior officials in Labour’s headquarters were openly plotting against Jeremy Corbyn.

    Those leaked messages show Ovenden discussing sex acts involving Abbott with two female staff members.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-director-strategy-resign-tbh6l5scb

    A conversation in 2017 that was leaked in 2020… why now? Cui bono?
    They’re losing control of the narrative and the media are circling. The same thing happened to the Tories, save that they managed to keep the show on the road for roughly 10 years before this phase set in.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,211
    edited September 15
    Starmer’s new position is that he “knew about the emails from Mandelson to Epstein after Epstein’s conviction” but HE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WAS IN THEM

    So he didn’t think to ask?

    Next it will be “yes I read the emails where Mandelson praises Epstein as the worlds greatest pedo but AS I READ THEM SOMEONE COVERED MY SCREEN WITH VASELINE SO THE ACTUAL WORDS WERE BLURRED”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/15/did-morgan-mcsweeney-hide-mandelson-evidence-from-starmer/
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,340

    Lennon said:

    Sounds like Kruger will chicken run. 'Leaving East Wiltshire' its 'not a target for Reform'

    Be interesting to see if any Tories want to chicken run into it...
    Kruger calls it 'one if the safest Tory seats' so plenty id imagine.
    They carried it in the May locals rather easily
    Just done some quick calcs. Labour didn't bother standing but in the wards making up East Wiltshire in May the Cons finished about 2100 votes ahead of Reform with the LDs a further 1300 behind
    My model, based on latest average "switching matrix" from six pollsters shows for East Wiltshire:

    2024 -> next GE
    Con 16,849 -> 12,015
    Ref 7,885 -> 14,161
    Lab 12,133 -> 8,042
    LD 8,204 -> 8.920
    Grn 1,844 -> 2,218

    Reform HOLD
    Unless Cons get tactical votes from Lab, LD and/or Grn
    Or Lab/LD come to an arrangement.
    Can't see any of those happening.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,539

    JD Vance might have a point about the suppression of free-speech in Europe after all. Bob Vylan has been banned for making an off-colour remark.

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2025/sep/15/bob-vylan-gig-in-netherlands-cancelled-after-frontman-makes-comments-about-death-of-charlie-kirk

    Play silly games, win silly prizes.

    You can say what you like. But, I am not required to give you a platform on which to say it.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,125

    JD Vance might have a point about the suppression of free-speech in Europe after all. Bob Vylan has been banned for making an off-colour remark.

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2025/sep/15/bob-vylan-gig-in-netherlands-cancelled-after-frontman-makes-comments-about-death-of-charlie-kirk

    Update on the free speech era: Regime-aligned billionaire bought CBS to install Bari Weiss at the head of the news operation and now the White House wants to shut down the competing networks.
    https://x.com/mattyglesias/status/1967289846919241752
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,507

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    "What shall we do with a drunken sailor" is a song by the sailor in question's somewhat-sympathetic girlfriend on the subject of brewer's droop.
    I had no idea about this until it was pointed out to me. It seems now so obvious.

    You know the girlfriend was of the rent by the hour variety
    Surely it's a work song for weighing the anchor etc by hand windlass or capstan, to coordinate the rhythm - and the drunk is lying blotto after his last run ashore and NOT DOING HIS SHARE OF THE WORK.

    Ransome would never have put it into Swallows and Amazons books (IIRC - and it is in the eponymous film) if Cookie's informant was right.

    The captain's daughter element is apparently a modern concoction by a bunch of landlubbers.
    The “captain’s daughter” is the cat o’nine tails. He’s going to be punished for being drunk on duty
    Iffy (though not unknown) in a UK merchant ship IIRC - plus I don't think the RN allowed work songs.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,403
    Wow. Nigel is saying that a by-election is not needed as there's no logical difference between Tory Kruger and Reform Kruger. That might be right, but is that the sort of thing Nigel should be broadcasting? Labour will have a field day with that in the Red Wall.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,211
    McSweeney is being set up to take the fall for Lord Yum Yum-gate

    What a pathetic clown show
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,125

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Eabhal said:

    I am a Royalist now.


    *** How did Keir Starmer win over Trump? And what’s he given up in return? ***

    I spent the summer talking to 20+ people trying to work this out for a long read

    David Lammy, Peter Mandelson, Simon Case, Chris Ruddy, No10 folks all talked

    Among what emerged…

    :: Starmer’s decision to reach out to Trump after the assassination attempt was key. Led to their first conversation

    :: Their first meeting in Trump Tower saw then candidate Trump constantly ask the PM about his victory and the Red Wall - a sign he respects winners

    :: When Starmer and Trump talk on the phone it is the President doing 90% of the talking, per those who have listened

    :: Starmer prepares a lot for his meetings with Trump. Before the first White House trip he was sent video footage of the 3 leaders who’d faced Trump already

    :: Starmer practiced handing over the state visit letter with aides. Seats arranged like the Oval Office. They war-gamed qus (inc Vance free speech jibe)

    :: Starmer’s TV state visit moment almost never came off. White House tried to take the letter off him for security reasons. A standoff ensued. Eventually defused.

    :: The PM has learned to schmooze Trump. On phone calls he praised Doge when Musk was still in White House

    :: He travelled to both of Trump’s Scottish golf courses in July - a PM putting focus on a counterpart’s commercial interests

    :: Starmer privately briefed Trump on Palestine Action spray painting his golf course with info from Police Scotland, per a source. 4 months later group banned.

    :: Starmer’s No10 aides past and present believe his lack of ego - contrasts drawn with Emmanual Macron - eases relations

    :: For some Labour MPs the deference is too much. One says the ‘sucking up’ to Trump ‘makes a mockery’ of UK values

    :: Royalty is key. Prince William’s meeting with Trump in Paris in December lasted so long it delayed a French state banquet - to the fury of Macron.

    :: Each meeting a senior Royal has with Trump is captured in a formal note by a private secretary and passed to the PM

    :: There is a depth of family friendship there too. Trump unexpectedly called Starmer on mobile after his bother died

    :: They are in touch on Signal too

    :: Key other figures in the relationship: Lammy (now moved), Mandelson (now sacked), and Jonathan Powell

    :: Plus, the secret Trump whisperer… Senay Bulbul, the UK embassy political counsellor who covers Repubs. She was almost moved to No10 to help advise

    So yes, PM had got on Trump’s good side. The bigger qu: has it helped that much??


    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1967574090761347570

    The implication there that hundreds of British citizens have been arrested for peaceful protest at the behest of Trump. If that's the secret reason for the draconian response to PA protestors that Ministers keep alluding to then the government is in serious trouble with the left - which was always a bigger risk to Starmer than the histrionics from the right.
    I think that's unlikely. I think we have a nexus of a stupid act by the government, some stupid (but well meaning) protesters and a stupid police force. Add it together and you end up with with some very unusual 'terrorists' being arrested for holding up placards.

    But I don't think its to satisfy Trump.
    Labour as form with bizarre threat estimation. Fathers For Justice and tree climbing greens were treated as terroristic threats - complete with illegal inflation operations against them. While actual terrorists were treated as community leaders.
    What is an illegal inflation operation ?
    Bloody auto incorrect - infiltration operations. Strangely, run by ACPO, which had no legal authority to run anything. ..
    How disappointing.
    I was hoping to learn of some deeply cunning economic manipulation strategy.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,297
    Leon said:

    Starmer’s new position is that he “knew about the emails from Mandelson to Epstein after Epstein’s conviction” but HE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WAS IN THEM

    So he didn’t think to ask?

    Next it will be “yes I read the emails where Mandelson praises Epstein as the worlds greatest pedo but AS I READ THEM SOMEONE COVERED MY SCREEN WITH VASELINE SO THE ACTUAL WORDS WERE BLURRED”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/15/did-morgan-mcsweeney-hide-mandelson-evidence-from-starmer/

    You don't need to ask if there are more than 1 of them - and allowing 1 to say nope is being generous.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 820
    Leon said:

    Starmer’s new position is that he “knew about the emails from Mandelson to Epstein after Epstein’s conviction” but HE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WAS IN THEM

    So he didn’t think to ask?

    Next it will be “yes I read the emails where Mandelson praises Epstein as the worlds greatest pedo but AS I READ THEM SOMEONE COVERED MY SCREEN WITH VASELINE SO THE ACTUAL WORDS WERE BLURRED”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/15/did-morgan-mcsweeney-hide-mandelson-evidence-from-starmer/

    He doesn't dream or have a favourite book, I don't expect he has any level of curiosity about anything. It's a liminal space in there.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,608
    edited September 15
    Farage tweeting that the Con>Lab defector Wakeford should have held a by election in the last parliament, then not getting Kruger to do so is a bit off. It would be nice to see some consistency rather than expedience from politicians

    I suppose he can say that no one else does, so why should Reform. But they are meant to be different
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,053
    edited September 15
    Leon said:

    Starmer’s new position is that he “knew about the emails from Mandelson to Epstein after Epstein’s conviction” but HE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WAS IN THEM

    So he didn’t think to ask?

    Next it will be “yes I read the emails where Mandelson praises Epstein as the worlds greatest pedo but AS I READ THEM SOMEONE COVERED MY SCREEN WITH VASELINE SO THE ACTUAL WORDS WERE BLURRED”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/15/did-morgan-mcsweeney-hide-mandelson-evidence-from-starmer/

    It’s a very lame defence. I knew this person was chummy with Epstein, he proved to be even more chummy with Epstein which was absolutely beyond the pale (not beforehand though, no) and I knew there were some emails doing the rounds but I hadn’t read them so I wasn’t quite sure how chummy they were so I didn’t bother finding that out until after I had to publicly defend him.

    It’s a classic politician’s excuse, in the real world there’s not much of a fag paper between it all.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,455
    isam said:

    Farage tweeting that the Con>Lab defector Wakeford should have held a by election in the last parliament, then not getting Kruger to do so is a bit off. It would be nice to see some consistency rather than expedience from politicians

    Maybe that's precisely why Kruger isn't resigning, because Wakeford didn't.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,193
    Barnesian said:

    Lennon said:

    Sounds like Kruger will chicken run. 'Leaving East Wiltshire' its 'not a target for Reform'

    Be interesting to see if any Tories want to chicken run into it...
    Kruger calls it 'one if the safest Tory seats' so plenty id imagine.
    They carried it in the May locals rather easily
    Just done some quick calcs. Labour didn't bother standing but in the wards making up East Wiltshire in May the Cons finished about 2100 votes ahead of Reform with the LDs a further 1300 behind
    My model, based on latest average "switching matrix" from six pollsters shows for East Wiltshire:

    2024 -> next GE
    Con 16,849 -> 12,015
    Ref 7,885 -> 14,161
    Lab 12,133 -> 8,042
    LD 8,204 -> 8.920
    Grn 1,844 -> 2,218

    Reform HOLD
    Unless Cons get tactical votes from Lab, LD and/or Grn
    Or Lab/LD come to an arrangement.
    Can't see any of those happening.
    Bullish on Reform for me, actual votes from May suggest Con Hold. As does Kruger leaving the seat.
    Time will tell
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,125
    boulay said:

    Interesting short story about how layers of Ministerial and Civil Service bureaucracy are holding back reform and procurement in the military, won’t be a surprise to most here but good to hear it from recent top man.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/sep/15/online-meetings-and-bureaucracy-delaying-mod-reform-says-former-military-chief

    The highlighted bit is new ?

    ..Sir Tony Radakin, giving a speech that had been blocked by Downing Street, complained of “extraordinary Teams calls with 20 or 30 people” – and that the number of senior MoD civil servants had increased by 85% since 2018.

    People who were “not going to face the accountability if something goes wrong or it doesn’t happen” nevertheless “have the ability to say no”, the retired admiral said, in online meetings that were normal practice both within the MoD and across government.

    Defence reform was “not happening as strongly and as quickly as it needs to,” said Radakin at the Institute for Government, despite the efforts of the current and previous governments, and he acknowledged this “speaks to a personal failure” to defeat bureaucracy.

    Whitehall needed to reduce “the levels of hierarchy”, he said, adding: “We have increased senior civil service numbers in defence by about 85% since 2018 even as defence has got smaller and the military star count has remained largely static.”

    The former admiral contrasted the normal civil service decision making processes with that adopted in the case of Ukraine, where ministers and officials were willing to take more operational risk. “What I think is frustrating is the outcome [in the case of Ukraine] is so much better,” he said.

    Radakin was careful to praise the Labour government and defence secretary, “John Healey, especially”, for wanting to reform the civil service bureaucracy. They were battling a system in which accountability “becomes cloudy”, he said, when large numbers of people were involved.

    The problem, Radakin said, was that it was too ​easy for politicians and officials to delay anything non-urgent, and he highlighted repeated delays to green-lighting a replacement for the now-ageing Trident nuclear submarines in 1998, 2010 and 2016...
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,403
    Sean_F said:

    JD Vance might have a point about the suppression of free-speech in Europe after all. Bob Vylan has been banned for making an off-colour remark.

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2025/sep/15/bob-vylan-gig-in-netherlands-cancelled-after-frontman-makes-comments-about-death-of-charlie-kirk

    Play silly games, win silly prizes.

    You can say what you like. But, I am not required to give you a platform on which to say it.

    Bit chilling though - venues revoking invitations because an artist has offended the sensibilities of a foreign power.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,455
    Barnesian said:

    Lennon said:

    Sounds like Kruger will chicken run. 'Leaving East Wiltshire' its 'not a target for Reform'

    Be interesting to see if any Tories want to chicken run into it...
    Kruger calls it 'one if the safest Tory seats' so plenty id imagine.
    They carried it in the May locals rather easily
    Just done some quick calcs. Labour didn't bother standing but in the wards making up East Wiltshire in May the Cons finished about 2100 votes ahead of Reform with the LDs a further 1300 behind
    My model, based on latest average "switching matrix" from six pollsters shows for East Wiltshire:

    2024 -> next GE
    Con 16,849 -> 12,015
    Ref 7,885 -> 14,161
    Lab 12,133 -> 8,042
    LD 8,204 -> 8.920
    Grn 1,844 -> 2,218

    Reform HOLD
    Unless Cons get tactical votes from Lab, LD and/or Grn
    Or Lab/LD come to an arrangement.
    Can't see any of those happening.
    I agree that Reform would win it, although I think they'd probably get just over 50%, so tactical voting wouldn't make any difference.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,539
    isam said:

    Farage tweeting that the Con>Lab defector Wakeford should have held a by election in the last parliament, then not getting Kruger to do so is a bit off. It would be nice to see some consistency rather than expedience from politicians

    I suppose he can say that no one else does, so why should Reform. But they are meant to be different

    In fact, I think Kruger would win it fairly easily for Reform, in by-election conditions.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,403
    isam said:

    Farage tweeting that the Con>Lab defector Wakeford should have held a by election in the last parliament, then not getting Kruger to do so is a bit off. It would be nice to see some consistency rather than expedience from politicians

    I suppose he can say that no one else does, so why should Reform. But they are meant to be different

    Nigel's reason is that nothing has changed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,125

    Wow. Nigel is saying that a by-election is not needed as there's no logical difference between Tory Kruger and Reform Kruger. That might be right, but is that the sort of thing Nigel should be broadcasting? Labour will have a field day with that in the Red Wall.

    I am not saying that.
    I am saying that it is unprincipled and cowardly. Of course.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,539

    Sean_F said:

    JD Vance might have a point about the suppression of free-speech in Europe after all. Bob Vylan has been banned for making an off-colour remark.

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2025/sep/15/bob-vylan-gig-in-netherlands-cancelled-after-frontman-makes-comments-about-death-of-charlie-kirk

    Play silly games, win silly prizes.

    You can say what you like. But, I am not required to give you a platform on which to say it.

    Bit chilling though - venues revoking invitations because an artist has offended the sensibilities of a foreign power.
    They are revoking the invitation of someone who has acted like an arse in public. That is quite normal.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,924
    Leon said:

    Starmer’s new position is that he “knew about the emails from Mandelson to Epstein after Epstein’s conviction” but HE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WAS IN THEM

    So he didn’t think to ask?

    Next it will be “yes I read the emails where Mandelson praises Epstein as the worlds greatest pedo but AS I READ THEM SOMEONE COVERED MY SCREEN WITH VASELINE SO THE ACTUAL WORDS WERE BLURRED”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/15/did-morgan-mcsweeney-hide-mandelson-evidence-from-starmer/

    Ah, ignorance

    The skill of knowing what to *provably not to know* is key management skill. Re-read the Post Office enquiry evidence.

    Equally, there is often nothing more offensive to senior management than provably making them aware of something they needed not to know.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,193
    Andy_JS said:

    Barnesian said:

    Lennon said:

    Sounds like Kruger will chicken run. 'Leaving East Wiltshire' its 'not a target for Reform'

    Be interesting to see if any Tories want to chicken run into it...
    Kruger calls it 'one if the safest Tory seats' so plenty id imagine.
    They carried it in the May locals rather easily
    Just done some quick calcs. Labour didn't bother standing but in the wards making up East Wiltshire in May the Cons finished about 2100 votes ahead of Reform with the LDs a further 1300 behind
    My model, based on latest average "switching matrix" from six pollsters shows for East Wiltshire:

    2024 -> next GE
    Con 16,849 -> 12,015
    Ref 7,885 -> 14,161
    Lab 12,133 -> 8,042
    LD 8,204 -> 8.920
    Grn 1,844 -> 2,218

    Reform HOLD
    Unless Cons get tactical votes from Lab, LD and/or Grn
    Or Lab/LD come to an arrangement.
    Can't see any of those happening.
    I agree that Reform would win it, although I think they'd probably get just over 50%, so tactical voting wouldn't make any difference.
    Just over 50%?! Lol! They might if they poll 45% nationally
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,455
    "Take back London for pedestrians
    How to tackle the capital’s problem cyclists
    Sebastian Milbank"

    https://thecritic.co.uk/take-back-london-for-pedestrians/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,211
    Fantastic line in that telegraph article above Yummygate


    “At the moment, it is only Keir Starmer’s force of personality that is keeping this government together.”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/15/did-morgan-mcsweeney-hide-mandelson-evidence-from-starmer/

    I’m hoping that’s a joke because as a joke it’s excellent
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,403
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    JD Vance might have a point about the suppression of free-speech in Europe after all. Bob Vylan has been banned for making an off-colour remark.

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2025/sep/15/bob-vylan-gig-in-netherlands-cancelled-after-frontman-makes-comments-about-death-of-charlie-kirk

    Play silly games, win silly prizes.

    You can say what you like. But, I am not required to give you a platform on which to say it.

    Bit chilling though - venues revoking invitations because an artist has offended the sensibilities of a foreign power.
    They are revoking the invitation of someone who has acted like an arse in public. That is quite normal.
    And when saying rude things about Keir Starmer is regarded as acting like an arse in public?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,076
    One odd thing about the Mandelson/Epstein emails – Mandelson describes Epstein as his ‘best pal’.
    If I were to hear a man use this phrase – or more commonly, ‘best friend’ or ‘best mate’ I would infer it to be someone he had known since childhood – or, at the very outset, since his late teens or early twenties.
    Can Jeffrey Epstein really be Peter Mandelson’s ‘best pal’? It paints a very strange picture of him.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,317
    edited September 15
    isam said:

    Farage tweeting that the Con>Lab defector Wakeford should have held a by election in the last parliament, then not getting Kruger to do so is a bit off. It would be nice to see some consistency rather than expedience from politicians

    I suppose he can say that no one else does, so why should Reform. But they are meant to be different

    The question remains whether he wants to be in government. We all made the joke about him fielding constituents' queries on potholes once elected as MP. Does he really want to be in government with all the boring, grinding requirements when he knows, because he isn't a fool, that he will end up ridiculed and the odds on him being booted out dropping like a stone.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,053
    edited September 15

    Leon said:

    Starmer’s new position is that he “knew about the emails from Mandelson to Epstein after Epstein’s conviction” but HE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WAS IN THEM

    So he didn’t think to ask?

    Next it will be “yes I read the emails where Mandelson praises Epstein as the worlds greatest pedo but AS I READ THEM SOMEONE COVERED MY SCREEN WITH VASELINE SO THE ACTUAL WORDS WERE BLURRED”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/15/did-morgan-mcsweeney-hide-mandelson-evidence-from-starmer/

    Ah, ignorance

    The skill of knowing what to *provably not to know* is key management skill. Re-read the Post Office enquiry evidence.

    Equally, there is often nothing more offensive to senior management than provably making them aware of something they needed not to know.
    I think this is the distinction between Starmer and a more skilful politician, though. Starmer has come from that culture of “don’t bother me with this” or “wait for this process to finish.”

    A PM absolutely needs to be bothered with stuff, and get a grip on crises urgently, because otherwise the scrutiny starts around exactly who knew what, when.

    I am not quite sure of the timings in my head, but I am pretty convinced that a more skilled and adept politician would have made damn sure if they became aware that those emails existed that they would not be standing up in the Commons at midday and trying to deflect by giving public backing. Too much of a hostage to fortune.
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