Starmer’s new position is that he “knew about the emails from Mandelson to Epstein after Epstein’s conviction” but HE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WAS IN THEM
So he didn’t think to ask?
Next it will be “yes I read the emails where Mandelson praises Epstein as the worlds greatest pedo but AS I READ THEM SOMEONE COVERED MY SCREEN WITH VASELINE SO THE ACTUAL WORDS WERE BLURRED”
It’s a very lame defence. I knew this person was chummy with Epstein, he proved to be even more chummy with Epstein which was absolutely beyond the pale (not beforehand though, no) and I knew there were some emails doing the rounds but I hadn’t read them so I wasn’t quite sure how chummy they were so I didn’t bother finding that out until after I had to publicly defend him.
It’s a classic politician’s excuse, in the real world there’s not much of a fag paper between it all.
The reason he appointed Mandelson isn't sayable by him - he judged the need to suck up to Donald Trump to be more important than maintaining normal standards of propriety. State visit, the same. Lammy Vance, the same. Rutte "daddy", the same. Euro leaders dash to Washington after Alaska, the same. Pakistan and the nobel peace prize, the same. There's hundreds of examples from around the world. It's a big global theme right now. All a bit pathetic, if you ask me, and counterproductive, but they're all at it so I suppose I must be wrong and it's very worthwhile.
UK has done better than other countries at avoiding Trump's ire. Some big nuclear deals coming soon also.
Nuclear might well be a good description for what is coming no 10s way this week !!!!
OT according to Countdown, today is the anniversary of Charles Darwin reaching the Galapagos Islands and making a watercolour sketch of a table and tall glass of gin or lager.
Presumably he was limited to only one sketch per day?
OT according to Countdown, today is the anniversary of Charles Darwin reaching the Galapagos Islands and making a watercolour sketch of a table and tall glass of gin or lager.
Presumably he was limited to only one sketch per day?
He'd have a Falklands fox, albeit dead, for scale, perhaps.
You can say what you like. But, I am not required to give you a platform on which to say it.
Bit chilling though - venues revoking invitations because an artist has offended the sensibilities of a foreign power.
'Free speech' is often confused with the idea of 'free speech without consequences' which is different.
Any commercial outfit of any sort is bound to consider the reputational damage of being associated with particular and egregious bits of speechifying.
The artist in question may also find that lots of venues will be able to enhance their particular reputation by inviting him.
Imagine, say, if Leon was suddenly ditched by all the illustrious periodicals he writes for because someone found something unpleasant he'd written on PB about Peter Mandelson. Exactly the same arguments could be made - editors are free to choose who they publish etc. - but there would still be something chilling about it.
Why?
Well, to start with, getting journalists fired for exposing misdeeds is exactly how some people have got away with crimes for years. Weinstein for example.
Journalists were threatened over the Post Office, Hillsborough and the thing we can't talk about
And journalists have also written things that have got their publishers/editors sued bigly.
And generally, in the British libel system, the truth of the publication has mattered little. See the history of Private Eye and the attempts at libel tourism using the UK courts. Libel tourism was about suppressing publication of inconvenient facts.
This may be heresy, but Private Eye were not always in the right. See MMR for an example.
So your position is that editors should publish anything their journalists want, regardless of truth, sourcing, or public interest?
No - but they should a damn sight better protection. As in truth being a 100% defence. Which is how it is in a fair number of European countries.
Say someone has cancer. They wish to keep it private, and there's no legitimate public interest. They should publish that? Or if a woman has miscarried?
Remember how the Red Rag shits tried to use Ivan Cameron's illness against his father. The way the truth is represented can matter a great deal.
Red Rag was about telling lies.
It was a little more nuanced than that. Like that Labour ****** 'journalist' saying that the people down his pub wanted Cameron to release his medical records, given Ivan's illness.
You give facts: Ivan is ill; Cameron admitted using dope at Eton;. You then combine the two to make innuendo that the latter caused the former, and 'suggest' that release of private medical information will help. In reality, it just gives more 'facts' to twist.
Emergency debate about Mandelson tomorrow in Parliament
LOL. This is getting ridiculous.
Not really. As I see it, the question is did the PM lie about the sequencing of Mandy's appointment. Did he engage in (typical?) spin so as to give the impression, or indeed flatly state that he didn't know something that he did actually know because as we have seen with this PM, he is not averse to changing his mind or trying to change the facts to accord with what would have been politically preferable to have happened.
So it turns on his integrity which imo is grounds for an emergency debate.
Oh and if it comes down to the detail of what actually happened and who knew what and when and what they then did as a result....I'd back Mandy all day long over the PM (and his office).
Responding to your edit:
Mandelson has already had to 'resign' from government twice over dodgy dealings. Starmer, not once.
Why would you back Mandelson, given that?
(As an aside, what has Mandelson said about his departure? Is he actually personally at odds with Starmer?)
The point is that Mandy in all likelihood has a "little black book" or equivalent wherein he notes down all this stuff. Whatever else he is he is an operator.
"in all likelihood"
And given his history, why would you trust what's in this imaginary little black book as being the truth?
Starmers lame excuses about Mandelson and that he wouldn't have appointed him had he known just do not wash. He is PM and should have known or at least asked questions. I wouldn't buy a used car from the man. He is totally untrustworthy. Everyone knows he is not telling the truth.
Reform cant call a by election for Wilts East. Too much danger of losing which would be a massively damaging own goal and destroy the 'we are the real opposition on the right' narrative. But that sets a precedent.... id expect defections of sitting MPs to Reform to be rather rare before a GE now as they cant blow hot and cold on by elections and a raft of them looks a bit ummmm 'iffy' and opportunist
I wouldn't - a by-election costs £x0,000 to run, so why bother because it's just an opposition MP moving a few seats along the opposition benches.
Now it's slightly different if you are a Government MP moving to the opposition but again it won't matter.
And remember when you vote you vote the constituency's Member of Parliament (an individual). No matter what people think you don't vote for a party you vote for a person who is the nominated candidate of the party and as with @RochdalePioneers they could change their party alliance at any point (not a dig at RP btw he was just the best example to hand).
A rule on this would be useful so that opportunist vote or no vote depending doesn't come Into it. By election on defecting unless you have had the whip removed (not voluntarily) and find a new home or were elected as an indy and wish to take up a whip. Stops game playing.
So the fast train from York at 18:00 is followed by a slow train that stops everywhere at 18:02.
The 18:00 is running slightly late and I've had 3 announcements saying that they are not 100% sure if the 18:02 is being held but lets think about this for a second.
if the train goes everyone going to any station between York and London is going to get a full refund as the next train is 19:02 and a 60+ minute delay is a full refund - hmm I wonder what happened.
Reform cant call a by election for Wilts East. Too much danger of losing which would be a massively damaging own goal and destroy the 'we are the real opposition on the right' narrative. But that sets a precedent.... id expect defections of sitting MPs to Reform to be rather rare before a GE now as they cant blow hot and cold on by elections and a raft of them looks a bit ummmm 'iffy' and opportunist
I wouldn't - a by-election costs £x0,000 to run, so why bother because it's just an opposition MP moving a few seats along the opposition benches.
Now it's slightly different if you are a Government MP moving to the opposition but again it won't matter.
And remember when you vote you vote the constituency's Member of Parliament (an individual). No matter what people think you don't vote for a party you vote for a person who is the nominated candidate of the party and as with @RochdalePioneers they could change their party alliance at any point (not a dig at RP btw he was just the best example to hand).
A rule on this would be useful so that opportunist vote or no vote depending doesn't come Into it. By election on defecting unless you have had the whip removed (not voluntarily) and find a new home or were elected as an indy and wish to take up a whip. Stops game playing.
I'd personally not spend the £x0,000 (which is probably £x00,000 if I estimated things accurately).
After all it's not going to make any difference if a Tory MP defects to Reform they are still going to vote against most Labour Government legislation...
Emergency debate about Mandelson tomorrow in Parliament
LOL. This is getting ridiculous.
Not really. As I see it, the question is did the PM lie about the sequencing of Mandy's appointment. Did he engage in (typical?) spin so as to give the impression, or indeed flatly state that he didn't know something that he did actually know because as we have seen with this PM, he is not averse to changing his mind or trying to change the facts to accord with what would have been politically preferable to have happened.
So it turns on his integrity which imo is grounds for an emergency debate.
Oh and if it comes down to the detail of what actually happened and who knew what and when and what they then did as a result....I'd back Mandy all day long over the PM (and his office).
Responding to your edit:
Mandelson has already had to 'resign' from government twice over dodgy dealings. Starmer, not once.
Why would you back Mandelson, given that?
(As an aside, what has Mandelson said about his departure? Is he actually personally at odds with Starmer?)
The point is that Mandy in all likelihood has a "little black book" or equivalent wherein he notes down all this stuff. Whatever else he is he is an operator.
"in all likelihood"
And given his history, why would you trust what's in this imaginary little black book as being the truth?
I am not convinced that Mandelson would want to go for early revenge. I think he will most likely keep quiet and lie low for a bit before popping up as an informal advisor. Why burn bridges and risk getting sent to Coventry?
Incidentally, I am not sure it is wise of the Tories to try to bring down Starmer. He would almost certainly be replaced by someone more formidable. Better to let him limp on wounded.
Nadine Dorries was a very good signing for Reform, Danny Kruger is an excellent one.
Not a Reform supporter in any way, but this is an interesting jump by an MP with knowledge of governing and the complexities it brings. As the Shadow Minister for the DWP he seems to have a mission to reform the benefits system in ways that the Labour government can't seem to achieve. Reform have been promising change but don't seem (up till now) have the depth of knowledge of the mechanics to be able to do it. DK is one to watch.
Meanwhile this article highlights that we have not been spending all of the benefits money that the country could. Some £24bn has been going begging. A quote from the article to highlight the gap between what is being done and what could have happened. An efficient DWP would have cost a lot more in terms of monies paid out.
“The scale of unclaimed support in Britain is still staggering,” Deven Ghelani director and founder of Policy in Practice said.
“Over £24 billion is left on the table at a time when many are struggling to stay afloat. But this isn’t a failure of the public. It’s a failure of a social security system that is still too complex, too fragmented and too passive.
“The good news is that we now have the tools to fix this."
Emergency debate about Mandelson tomorrow in Parliament
LOL. This is getting ridiculous.
Not really. As I see it, the question is did the PM lie about the sequencing of Mandy's appointment. Did he engage in (typical?) spin so as to give the impression, or indeed flatly state that he didn't know something that he did actually know because as we have seen with this PM, he is not averse to changing his mind or trying to change the facts to accord with what would have been politically preferable to have happened.
So it turns on his integrity which imo is grounds for an emergency debate.
Oh and if it comes down to the detail of what actually happened and who knew what and when and what they then did as a result....I'd back Mandy all day long over the PM (and his office).
Responding to your edit:
Mandelson has already had to 'resign' from government twice over dodgy dealings. Starmer, not once.
Why would you back Mandelson, given that?
(As an aside, what has Mandelson said about his departure? Is he actually personally at odds with Starmer?)
The point is that Mandy in all likelihood has a "little black book" or equivalent wherein he notes down all this stuff. Whatever else he is he is an operator.
"in all likelihood"
And given his history, why would you trust what's in this imaginary little black book as being the truth?
I am not convinced that Mandelson would want to go for early revenge. I think he will most likely keep quiet and lie low for a bit before popping up as an informal advisor. Why burn bridges and risk getting sent to Coventry?
Incidentally, I am not sure it is wise of the Tories to try to bring down Starmer. He would almost certainly be replaced by someone more formidable. Better to let him limp on wounded.
Tories best hope is a partial Labour recovery to deflate Reform and make people think the 'best on the right' question has reopened
Reform cant call a by election for Wilts East. Too much danger of losing which would be a massively damaging own goal and destroy the 'we are the real opposition on the right' narrative. But that sets a precedent.... id expect defections of sitting MPs to Reform to be rather rare before a GE now as they cant blow hot and cold on by elections and a raft of them looks a bit ummmm 'iffy' and opportunist
I wouldn't - a by-election costs £x0,000 to run, so why bother because it's just an opposition MP moving a few seats along the opposition benches.
Now it's slightly different if you are a Government MP moving to the opposition but again it won't matter.
And remember when you vote you vote the constituency's Member of Parliament (an individual). No matter what people think you don't vote for a party you vote for a person who is the nominated candidate of the party and as with @RochdalePioneers they could change their party alliance at any point (not a dig at RP btw he was just the best example to hand).
A rule on this would be useful so that opportunist vote or no vote depending doesn't come Into it. By election on defecting unless you have had the whip removed (not voluntarily) and find a new home or were elected as an indy and wish to take up a whip. Stops game playing.
I'd personally not spend the £x0,000 (which is probably £x00,000 if I estimated things accurately).
After all it's not going to make any difference if a Tory MP defects to Reform they are still going to vote against most Labour Government legislation...
It would make defection very rare and for good reasons (given the receiving party has to justify the cost) not a simple career/lifeboat move - they can do that at an actual election
Nadine Dorries was a very good signing for Reform, Danny Kruger is an excellent one.
Not a Reform supporter in any way, but this is an interesting jump by an MP with knowledge of governing and the complexities it brings. As the Shadow Minister for the DWP he seems to have a mission to reform the benefits system in ways that the Labour government can't seem to achieve. Reform have been promising change but don't seem (up till now) have the depth of knowledge of the mechanics to be able to do it. DK is one to watch.
(Snip)
An issue is that the Farage Party is not a political party. It is a political vehicle for Farage. It doesn't matter how much knowledge of governing Kruger has; if Farage does not listen, it doesn't matter. And Farage falls out with everyone who threatens his power.
Sky US correspondent saying that listening to Starmer just now, he is in a very sticky position with a lot of questions for him
He went on to say that on Thursday at Chequers there will be a joint conference with Trump and Starmer to announce various deals, and Mandelson will be front and centre of questions from the journalists present
Three Barking councillors have defected from Labour to Green forming the opposition group on the almost totally red council (51/51 Lab in 2022 with 1 defection to indy since)
Emergency debate about Mandelson tomorrow in Parliament
LOL. This is getting ridiculous.
Not really. As I see it, the question is did the PM lie about the sequencing of Mandy's appointment. Did he engage in (typical?) spin so as to give the impression, or indeed flatly state that he didn't know something that he did actually know because as we have seen with this PM, he is not averse to changing his mind or trying to change the facts to accord with what would have been politically preferable to have happened.
So it turns on his integrity which imo is grounds for an emergency debate.
Oh and if it comes down to the detail of what actually happened and who knew what and when and what they then did as a result....I'd back Mandy all day long over the PM (and his office).
Responding to your edit:
Mandelson has already had to 'resign' from government twice over dodgy dealings. Starmer, not once.
Why would you back Mandelson, given that?
(As an aside, what has Mandelson said about his departure? Is he actually personally at odds with Starmer?)
The point is that Mandy in all likelihood has a "little black book" or equivalent wherein he notes down all this stuff. Whatever else he is he is an operator.
"in all likelihood"
And given his history, why would you trust what's in this imaginary little black book as being the truth?
I am not convinced that Mandelson would want to go for early revenge. I think he will most likely keep quiet and lie low for a bit before popping up as an informal advisor. Why burn bridges and risk getting sent to Coventry?
Incidentally, I am not sure it is wise of the Tories to try to bring down Starmer. He would almost certainly be replaced by someone more formidable. Better to let him limp on wounded.
Re your last paragraph you do know how politics works and in this case it will be Labour mps who will decide
And by the way, a Labour government without Starmer and Reeves could be a good thing
Emergency debate about Mandelson tomorrow in Parliament
LOL. This is getting ridiculous.
Not really. As I see it, the question is did the PM lie about the sequencing of Mandy's appointment. Did he engage in (typical?) spin so as to give the impression, or indeed flatly state that he didn't know something that he did actually know because as we have seen with this PM, he is not averse to changing his mind or trying to change the facts to accord with what would have been politically preferable to have happened.
So it turns on his integrity which imo is grounds for an emergency debate.
Oh and if it comes down to the detail of what actually happened and who knew what and when and what they then did as a result....I'd back Mandy all day long over the PM (and his office).
Responding to your edit:
Mandelson has already had to 'resign' from government twice over dodgy dealings. Starmer, not once.
Why would you back Mandelson, given that?
(As an aside, what has Mandelson said about his departure? Is he actually personally at odds with Starmer?)
The point is that Mandy in all likelihood has a "little black book" or equivalent wherein he notes down all this stuff. Whatever else he is he is an operator.
"in all likelihood"
And given his history, why would you trust what's in this imaginary little black book as being the truth?
I am not convinced that Mandelson would want to go for early revenge. I think he will most likely keep quiet and lie low for a bit before popping up as an informal advisor. Why burn bridges and risk getting sent to Coventry?
Incidentally, I am not sure it is wise of the Tories to try to bring down Starmer. He would almost certainly be replaced by someone more formidable. Better to let him limp on wounded.
Re your last paragraph you do know how politics works and in this case it will be Labour mps who will decide
And by the way, a Labour government without Starmer and Reeves could be a good thing
Yes. Someone could be PM with a large majority without doing the hard yards to get into #10. Who wouldn't want to knife the leader to get the job?
Emergency debate about Mandelson tomorrow in Parliament
LOL. This is getting ridiculous.
Not really. As I see it, the question is did the PM lie about the sequencing of Mandy's appointment. Did he engage in (typical?) spin so as to give the impression, or indeed flatly state that he didn't know something that he did actually know because as we have seen with this PM, he is not averse to changing his mind or trying to change the facts to accord with what would have been politically preferable to have happened.
So it turns on his integrity which imo is grounds for an emergency debate.
Oh and if it comes down to the detail of what actually happened and who knew what and when and what they then did as a result....I'd back Mandy all day long over the PM (and his office).
Responding to your edit:
Mandelson has already had to 'resign' from government twice over dodgy dealings. Starmer, not once.
Why would you back Mandelson, given that?
(As an aside, what has Mandelson said about his departure? Is he actually personally at odds with Starmer?)
The point is that Mandy in all likelihood has a "little black book" or equivalent wherein he notes down all this stuff. Whatever else he is he is an operator.
"in all likelihood"
And given his history, why would you trust what's in this imaginary little black book as being the truth?
I am not convinced that Mandelson would want to go for early revenge. I think he will most likely keep quiet and lie low for a bit before popping up as an informal advisor. Why burn bridges and risk getting sent to Coventry?
Incidentally, I am not sure it is wise of the Tories to try to bring down Starmer. He would almost certainly be replaced by someone more formidable. Better to let him limp on wounded.
Tories best hope is a partial Labour recovery to deflate Reform and make people think the 'best on the right' question has reopened
And either way, the country's best hope is Starmer gone, period. I don't care if his presence is a boon to the right - the country can't afford it.
Emergency debate about Mandelson tomorrow in Parliament
LOL. This is getting ridiculous.
Not really. As I see it, the question is did the PM lie about the sequencing of Mandy's appointment. Did he engage in (typical?) spin so as to give the impression, or indeed flatly state that he didn't know something that he did actually know because as we have seen with this PM, he is not averse to changing his mind or trying to change the facts to accord with what would have been politically preferable to have happened.
So it turns on his integrity which imo is grounds for an emergency debate.
Oh and if it comes down to the detail of what actually happened and who knew what and when and what they then did as a result....I'd back Mandy all day long over the PM (and his office).
Responding to your edit:
Mandelson has already had to 'resign' from government twice over dodgy dealings. Starmer, not once.
Why would you back Mandelson, given that?
(As an aside, what has Mandelson said about his departure? Is he actually personally at odds with Starmer?)
The point is that Mandy in all likelihood has a "little black book" or equivalent wherein he notes down all this stuff. Whatever else he is he is an operator.
"in all likelihood"
And given his history, why would you trust what's in this imaginary little black book as being the truth?
I am not convinced that Mandelson would want to go for early revenge. I think he will most likely keep quiet and lie low for a bit before popping up as an informal advisor. Why burn bridges and risk getting sent to Coventry?
Incidentally, I am not sure it is wise of the Tories to try to bring down Starmer. He would almost certainly be replaced by someone more formidable. Better to let him limp on wounded.
Tories best hope is a partial Labour recovery to deflate Reform and make people think the 'best on the right' question has reopened
And either way, the country's best hope is Starmer gone, period. I don't care if his presence is a boon to the right - the country can't afford it.
Starmer’s new position is that he “knew about the emails from Mandelson to Epstein after Epstein’s conviction” but HE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WAS IN THEM
So he didn’t think to ask?
Next it will be “yes I read the emails where Mandelson praises Epstein as the worlds greatest pedo but AS I READ THEM SOMEONE COVERED MY SCREEN WITH VASELINE SO THE ACTUAL WORDS WERE BLURRED”
It’s a very lame defence. I knew this person was chummy with Epstein, he proved to be even more chummy with Epstein which was absolutely beyond the pale (not beforehand though, no) and I knew there were some emails doing the rounds but I hadn’t read them so I wasn’t quite sure how chummy they were so I didn’t bother finding that out until after I had to publicly defend him.
It’s a classic politician’s excuse, in the real world there’s not much of a fag paper between it all.
The reason he appointed Mandelson isn't sayable by him - he judged the need to suck up to Donald Trump to be more important than maintaining normal standards of propriety. State visit, the same. Lammy Vance, the same. Rutte "daddy", the same. Euro leaders dash to Washington after Alaska, the same. Pakistan and the nobel peace prize, the same. There's hundreds of examples from around the world. It's a big global theme right now. All a bit pathetic, if you ask me, and counterproductive, but they're all at it so I suppose I must be wrong and it's very worthwhile.
UK has done better than other countries at avoiding Trump's ire. Some big nuclear deals coming soon also.
Starmer at his lowest ever -46 with just 17% saying good job Davey and Farage -10 and -7 a little down but within MoE Badenoch -23 a slight uptick after Evisceration week but only back to where she was a few weeks ago
All football fans will be cheering for Burnley in this fight.
Burnley sue Everton for £50m in relegation legal battle
Lawyers on both sides have spent a year preparing their arguments
Burnley’s £50m-plus compensation case against Everton is due to start this week, with potentially huge ramifications for the Premier League.
The Clarets claim they are owed compensation after Everton were found in breach of the Premier League’s profitability and sustainability rules (PSR).
Everton were handed a 10-point deduction in November 2023, later reduced to six on appeal.
Had the points deduction been applied the previous season, Burnley would have avoided relegation with Everton dropping into the bottom three instead.
The case will commence in the middle of this week at the International Dispute Resolution Centre in St Paul’s, London.
It is understood that Burnley, who were relegated in 2022, will argue they are entitled to compensation because Everton gained sporting advantage by breaching those rules.
The i Paper understands Burnley’s claim, which centres on revenue lost by dropping into the Championship, is in excess of £50m.
Lawyers on both sides have spent around a year preparing their case, which will be heard in private.
There is no timescale for when a verdict will be delivered and the public may never learn of the outcome.
Burnley’s general counsel, Amy Wells, was Everton’s head of legal from July 2017 to December 2022. She joined Burnley in April 2024.
Nadine Dorries was a very good signing for Reform, Danny Kruger is an excellent one.
Not a Reform supporter in any way, but this is an interesting jump by an MP with knowledge of governing and the complexities it brings. As the Shadow Minister for the DWP he seems to have a mission to reform the benefits system in ways that the Labour government can't seem to achieve. Reform have been promising change but don't seem (up till now) have the depth of knowledge of the mechanics to be able to do it. DK is one to watch.
(Snip)
An issue is that the Farage Party is not a political party. It is a political vehicle for Farage. It doesn't matter how much knowledge of governing Kruger has; if Farage does not listen, it doesn't matter. And Farage falls out with everyone who threatens his power.
I'm not so sure that this isn't an engineered move by those behind Farage. Farage no doubt thinks he is surrounded by idiots (and probably is) but Kruger is a heavyweight - and a heavyweight with a mission that couldn't be actioned in a Kemi-led Conservative party. He probably doesn't want to be #1 but he wants change.
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
One odd thing about the Mandelson/Epstein emails – Mandelson describes Epstein as his ‘best pal’. If I were to hear a man use this phrase – or more commonly, ‘best friend’ or ‘best mate’ I would infer it to be someone he had known since childhood – or, at the very outset, since his late teens or early twenties. Can Jeffrey Epstein really be Peter Mandelson’s ‘best pal’? It paints a very strange picture of him.
Everything seems to paint an odd picture of Mandelson. It'd be nice to know what Mandelson actually honestly wanted from this life...
Position and wealth
Certainly not reputation.
Some senior politicians - e.g. Major, Balls, or Portillo, are hated during their time in politics, but become more popular afterwards. In the case of the latter two, through TV. Mandelson was admired for his skills, but also disliked, and when he left power seems to have done little to improve his standing.
The dynamics of this are curious. Blair, for instance, seems to have shed popularity despite retiring undefeated. Hague, his oppo number during his first term, has ended up being elected Chancellor of Oxford (handily beating Mandy in the process), and is seen as an all round good egg. What's at play here?
One odd thing about the Mandelson/Epstein emails – Mandelson describes Epstein as his ‘best pal’. If I were to hear a man use this phrase – or more commonly, ‘best friend’ or ‘best mate’ I would infer it to be someone he had known since childhood – or, at the very outset, since his late teens or early twenties. Can Jeffrey Epstein really be Peter Mandelson’s ‘best pal’? It paints a very strange picture of him.
Everything seems to paint an odd picture of Mandelson. It'd be nice to know what Mandelson actually honestly wanted from this life...
Position and wealth
Certainly not reputation.
Some senior politicians - e.g. Major, Balls, or Portillo, are hated during their time in politics, but become more popular afterwards. In the case of the latter two, through TV. Mandelson was admired for his skills, but also disliked, and when he left power seems to have done little to improve his standing.
The dynamics of this are curious. Blair, for instance, seems to have shed popularity despite retiring undefeated. Hague, his oppo number during his first term, has ended up being elected Chancellor of Oxford (handily beating Mandy in the process), and is seen as an all round good egg. What's at play here?
I don't see Hague as a particularly good egg, nor do I think being appointed the Chancellor of Oxford is necessarily a good indication of the common touch. Blair is less popular because he's gorged himself on more money from unsavoury people.
Emergency debate about Mandelson tomorrow in Parliament
LOL. This is getting ridiculous.
Not really. As I see it, the question is did the PM lie about the sequencing of Mandy's appointment. Did he engage in (typical?) spin so as to give the impression, or indeed flatly state that he didn't know something that he did actually know because as we have seen with this PM, he is not averse to changing his mind or trying to change the facts to accord with what would have been politically preferable to have happened.
So it turns on his integrity which imo is grounds for an emergency debate.
Oh and if it comes down to the detail of what actually happened and who knew what and when and what they then did as a result....I'd back Mandy all day long over the PM (and his office).
Responding to your edit:
Mandelson has already had to 'resign' from government twice over dodgy dealings. Starmer, not once.
Why would you back Mandelson, given that?
(As an aside, what has Mandelson said about his departure? Is he actually personally at odds with Starmer?)
Apparently Yum Yum gets a six figure sum if his dismissal was unfair. That's the prism through which to view any response from him
Surely he hasn't been in post long enough. Unless he can claim discrimination.
Doesn't mean the Times is right. The civil servants held up as examples are career civil servants who will have served much more than two years. And there's a fair bit of could and maybe and might.
To be on the safe side, it might be helpful if Lord Alli or Blair or someone could give Mandelson a sackful of cash to go quietly.
Here is Danny Kruger MP in Parliament, as a Tory MP before defecting today, berating Reform UK for "simply replacing the words Conservative Party with the words Reform Party... in a desperate search for relevance", then warning they would "spend money like drunken sailors". ~AA
Is there any evidence that reform MPs have any scruples?
What is interesting about the Saturday rally is the strong religious component it contained. Is Reform now the Church of England at prayer?
The rally had nothing really to do with Reform was organised by people and had speakers who detest them or are proposing other solutions (Robinson, Habib, Hopkins, Fox, Musk etc)
Radio 5 had the classic interview with a member of the public who had attended. 'I was protesting about freedom of speech". "What about it?" "You can't say anything these days" etc etc. A classic rather low IQ, well meaning, probably is bit of a racist, a bit of an islamophobe and is upset that he can't come on the radio and talk about 'wogs and pakis'.
There are serious issues around free speech and the intersection with the law/policing. The miss-use of police time by certain trans-activists is one example, but there are many more.
Judgemental, much?
It must pain you to have seen so many ghastly people all in one place of a Saturday in London instead of those peace-loving, diversity-loving pro-Palestinians.
Think you've got me wrong there, old boy. I have a lot of sympathy for many of the grievances of those who were there. But you could here in the interview the chap skirting round what he really wanted to say. I understand, an enormous number of my fellow countrymen and women think the same. My 86 year old dad for one.
"you could here [sic] in the interview the chap skirting around what he really wanted to say"
Listen to yourself. What a truly great gift you evidently have.
Get over yourself. I may not have had the exact grievance down pat but what do you think said chap felt he couldn’t say on national radio? I don’t think pineapple goes on pizza? I think Radiohead are shit?
One odd thing about the Mandelson/Epstein emails – Mandelson describes Epstein as his ‘best pal’. If I were to hear a man use this phrase – or more commonly, ‘best friend’ or ‘best mate’ I would infer it to be someone he had known since childhood – or, at the very outset, since his late teens or early twenties. Can Jeffrey Epstein really be Peter Mandelson’s ‘best pal’? It paints a very strange picture of him.
Everything seems to paint an odd picture of Mandelson. It'd be nice to know what Mandelson actually honestly wanted from this life...
Position and wealth
Certainly not reputation.
Some senior politicians - e.g. Major, Balls, or Portillo, are hated during their time in politics, but become more popular afterwards. In the case of the latter two, through TV. Mandelson was admired for his skills, but also disliked, and when he left power seems to have done little to improve his standing.
The dynamics of this are curious. Blair, for instance, seems to have shed popularity despite retiring undefeated. Hague, his oppo number during his first term, has ended up being elected Chancellor of Oxford (handily beating Mandy in the process), and is seen as an all round good egg. What's at play here?
I don't see Hague as a particularly good egg, nor do I think being appointed the Chancellor of Oxford is necessarily a good indication of the common touch. Blair is less popular because he's gorged himself on more money from unsavoury people.
Blair had become deeply unpopular long before he took money from dodgy people.
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
Reform cant call a by election for Wilts East. Too much danger of losing which would be a massively damaging own goal and destroy the 'we are the real opposition on the right' narrative. But that sets a precedent.... id expect defections of sitting MPs to Reform to be rather rare before a GE now as they cant blow hot and cold on by elections and a raft of them looks a bit ummmm 'iffy' and opportunist
I wouldn't - a by-election costs £x0,000 to run, so why bother because it's just an opposition MP moving a few seats along the opposition benches.
Now it's slightly different if you are a Government MP moving to the opposition but again it won't matter.
And remember when you vote you vote the constituency's Member of Parliament (an individual). No matter what people think you don't vote for a party you vote for a person who is the nominated candidate of the party and as with @RochdalePioneers they could change their party alliance at any point (not a dig at RP btw he was just the best example to hand).
A rule on this would be useful so that opportunist vote or no vote depending doesn't come Into it. By election on defecting unless you have had the whip removed (not voluntarily) and find a new home or were elected as an indy and wish to take up a whip. Stops game playing.
The issue with that is it encourages MP to engage in behaviour that causes the whip to be removed.
Starmers lame excuses about Mandelson and that he wouldn't have appointed him had he known just do not wash. He is PM and should have known or at least asked questions. I wouldn't buy a used car from the man. He is totally untrustworthy. Everyone knows he is not telling the truth.
He has always been like this, but Remain voters were so angry about Leave winning/Boris becoming PM that it blinded them to Sir Keir's constant lies and evasions. So much so that they actually believed all that "Mr Integrity" guff
Reform cant call a by election for Wilts East. Too much danger of losing which would be a massively damaging own goal and destroy the 'we are the real opposition on the right' narrative. But that sets a precedent.... id expect defections of sitting MPs to Reform to be rather rare before a GE now as they cant blow hot and cold on by elections and a raft of them looks a bit ummmm 'iffy' and opportunist
I wouldn't - a by-election costs £x0,000 to run, so why bother because it's just an opposition MP moving a few seats along the opposition benches.
Now it's slightly different if you are a Government MP moving to the opposition but again it won't matter.
And remember when you vote you vote the constituency's Member of Parliament (an individual). No matter what people think you don't vote for a party you vote for a person who is the nominated candidate of the party and as with @RochdalePioneers they could change their party alliance at any point (not a dig at RP btw he was just the best example to hand).
A rule on this would be useful so that opportunist vote or no vote depending doesn't come Into it. By election on defecting unless you have had the whip removed (not voluntarily) and find a new home or were elected as an indy and wish to take up a whip. Stops game playing.
The issue with that is it encourages MP to engage in behaviour that causes the whip to be removed.
One odd thing about the Mandelson/Epstein emails – Mandelson describes Epstein as his ‘best pal’. If I were to hear a man use this phrase – or more commonly, ‘best friend’ or ‘best mate’ I would infer it to be someone he had known since childhood – or, at the very outset, since his late teens or early twenties. Can Jeffrey Epstein really be Peter Mandelson’s ‘best pal’? It paints a very strange picture of him.
Everything seems to paint an odd picture of Mandelson. It'd be nice to know what Mandelson actually honestly wanted from this life...
Position and wealth
Certainly not reputation.
Some senior politicians - e.g. Major, Balls, or Portillo, are hated during their time in politics, but become more popular afterwards. In the case of the latter two, through TV. Mandelson was admired for his skills, but also disliked, and when he left power seems to have done little to improve his standing.
The dynamics of this are curious. Blair, for instance, seems to have shed popularity despite retiring undefeated. Hague, his oppo number during his first term, has ended up being elected Chancellor of Oxford (handily beating Mandy in the process), and is seen as an all round good egg. What's at play here?
In Major's case, I think it was that he was unfairly maligned whilst in power (he wasn't *that* bad, and he was head of an ungovernable party), and he has maintained a fairly quiet, thoughtful and stately demeanour since leaving office.
In Blair's case, Iraq hangs around him like the stink from a pig farm. And I think many on the left of the party, who may have been very glad to be in power, are more than happy to give his reputation a kicking now. He's also been less 'stately' since he left office. So both left and right love to give him a bit of a kicking - but he does not help his own cause.
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
One odd thing about the Mandelson/Epstein emails – Mandelson describes Epstein as his ‘best pal’. If I were to hear a man use this phrase – or more commonly, ‘best friend’ or ‘best mate’ I would infer it to be someone he had known since childhood – or, at the very outset, since his late teens or early twenties. Can Jeffrey Epstein really be Peter Mandelson’s ‘best pal’? It paints a very strange picture of him.
Everything seems to paint an odd picture of Mandelson. It'd be nice to know what Mandelson actually honestly wanted from this life...
I wonder whether being a gay man in the 70s and 80s is at the heart of it. He feels excluded from society (because that was often the case for homosexuals in those days) and desperately wants to be part of the “in crowd”
Starmer’s new position is that he “knew about the emails from Mandelson to Epstein after Epstein’s conviction” but HE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WAS IN THEM
So he didn’t think to ask?
Next it will be “yes I read the emails where Mandelson praises Epstein as the worlds greatest pedo but AS I READ THEM SOMEONE COVERED MY SCREEN WITH VASELINE SO THE ACTUAL WORDS WERE BLURRED”
It’s a very lame defence. I knew this person was chummy with Epstein, he proved to be even more chummy with Epstein which was absolutely beyond the pale (not beforehand though, no) and I knew there were some emails doing the rounds but I hadn’t read them so I wasn’t quite sure how chummy they were so I didn’t bother finding that out until after I had to publicly defend him.
It’s a classic politician’s excuse, in the real world there’s not much of a fag paper between it all.
The reason he appointed Mandelson isn't sayable by him - he judged the need to suck up to Donald Trump to be more important than maintaining normal standards of propriety. State visit, the same. Lammy Vance, the same. Rutte "daddy", the same. Euro leaders dash to Washington after Alaska, the same. Pakistan and the nobel peace prize, the same. There's hundreds of examples from around the world. It's a big global theme right now. All a bit pathetic, if you ask me, and counterproductive, but they're all at it so I suppose I must be wrong and it's very worthwhile.
UK has done better than other countries at avoiding Trump's ire. Some big nuclear deals coming soon also.
Not necessarily to our benefit.
Almost certainly NOT to our benefit, which is why Trump will keep us onside for a little bit longer before he drops us in the clarts.
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
So the exact story we've repeated on here many times before that by using hotels they have turned family memories into asylum hostels.
The problem is this was obvious (both in 2020 when Glasgow did it to house their homeless population during covid) and when the Tory party started doing it in 202?. And the problem is that thew problem can't be fixed enough for it not to be toxic to the labour - witness the court case to keep them in a hotel because the other options don't exist.
And even f they did they will be at least as equally toxic because a hotel is usually on the edge of the town (few residents) or the town centre (again few locals) while your typical HMO will be in a residential street.
One odd thing about the Mandelson/Epstein emails – Mandelson describes Epstein as his ‘best pal’. If I were to hear a man use this phrase – or more commonly, ‘best friend’ or ‘best mate’ I would infer it to be someone he had known since childhood – or, at the very outset, since his late teens or early twenties. Can Jeffrey Epstein really be Peter Mandelson’s ‘best pal’? It paints a very strange picture of him.
Everything seems to paint an odd picture of Mandelson. It'd be nice to know what Mandelson actually honestly wanted from this life...
Position and wealth
Certainly not reputation.
Some senior politicians - e.g. Major, Balls, or Portillo, are hated during their time in politics, but become more popular afterwards. In the case of the latter two, through TV. Mandelson was admired for his skills, but also disliked, and when he left power seems to have done little to improve his standing.
The dynamics of this are curious. Blair, for instance, seems to have shed popularity despite retiring undefeated. Hague, his oppo number during his first term, has ended up being elected Chancellor of Oxford (handily beating Mandy in the process), and is seen as an all round good egg. What's at play here?
In Major's case, I think it was that he was unfairly maligned whilst in power (he wasn't *that* bad, and he was head of an ungovernable party), and he has maintained a fairly quiet, thoughtful and stately demeanour since leaving office.
In Blair's case, Iraq hangs around him like the stink from a pig farm. And I think many on the left of the party, who may have been very glad to be in power, are more than happy to give his reputation a kicking now. He's also been less 'stately' since he left office. So both left and right love to give him a bit of a kicking - but he does not help his own cause.
Strange to ponder that if not for Iraq, Tony Blair would be hailed as the best Prime Minister of this century, and possibly since the war.
Reform cant call a by election for Wilts East. Too much danger of losing which would be a massively damaging own goal and destroy the 'we are the real opposition on the right' narrative. But that sets a precedent.... id expect defections of sitting MPs to Reform to be rather rare before a GE now as they cant blow hot and cold on by elections and a raft of them looks a bit ummmm 'iffy' and opportunist
I wouldn't - a by-election costs £x0,000 to run, so why bother because it's just an opposition MP moving a few seats along the opposition benches.
Now it's slightly different if you are a Government MP moving to the opposition but again it won't matter.
And remember when you vote you vote the constituency's Member of Parliament (an individual). No matter what people think you don't vote for a party you vote for a person who is the nominated candidate of the party and as with @RochdalePioneers they could change their party alliance at any point (not a dig at RP btw he was just the best example to hand).
A rule on this would be useful so that opportunist vote or no vote depending doesn't come Into it. By election on defecting unless you have had the whip removed (not voluntarily) and find a new home or were elected as an indy and wish to take up a whip. Stops game playing.
I'd personally not spend the £x0,000 (which is probably £x00,000 if I estimated things accurately).
After all it's not going to make any difference if a Tory MP defects to Reform they are still going to vote against most Labour Government legislation...
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
And so it goes on and Farage grows stronger
And only 8 arrests so far and less than expected
I wonder if the police were under instructions to go softly softly, the idea being that too many arrests would have upset Nigel and, perhaps more importantly, Donald, Elon and JD. I do feel we've rather been put on notice by the latter three, and we need to demonstrate we've humbly taken their criticisms onboard and have addressed our attitude problems.
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
So the exact story we've repeated on here many times before that by using hotels they have turned family memories into asylum hostels.
The problem is this was obvious (both in 2020 when Glasgow did it to house their homeless population during covid) and when the Tory party started doing it in 202?. And the problem is that thew problem can't be fixed enough for it not to be toxic to the labour - witness the court case to keep them in a hotel because the other options don't exist.
And even f they did they will be at least as equally toxic because a hotel is usually on the edge of the town (few residents) or the town centre (again few locals) while your typical HMO will be in a residential street.
Many of the hotels were rather grand, but have long degenerated, hence the use as asylum holding centres. There was an interesting FT article on the Britannia hotels chain. A slum landlord on the level of Rachman.
Reform cant call a by election for Wilts East. Too much danger of losing which would be a massively damaging own goal and destroy the 'we are the real opposition on the right' narrative. But that sets a precedent.... id expect defections of sitting MPs to Reform to be rather rare before a GE now as they cant blow hot and cold on by elections and a raft of them looks a bit ummmm 'iffy' and opportunist
I wouldn't - a by-election costs £x0,000 to run, so why bother because it's just an opposition MP moving a few seats along the opposition benches.
Now it's slightly different if you are a Government MP moving to the opposition but again it won't matter.
And remember when you vote you vote the constituency's Member of Parliament (an individual). No matter what people think you don't vote for a party you vote for a person who is the nominated candidate of the party and as with @RochdalePioneers they could change their party alliance at any point (not a dig at RP btw he was just the best example to hand).
A rule on this would be useful so that opportunist vote or no vote depending doesn't come Into it. By election on defecting unless you have had the whip removed (not voluntarily) and find a new home or were elected as an indy and wish to take up a whip. Stops game playing.
I'd personally not spend the £x0,000 (which is probably £x00,000 if I estimated things accurately).
After all it's not going to make any difference if a Tory MP defects to Reform they are still going to vote against most Labour Government legislation...
So probably £400,000+ now. That feels like a very good response if Farage is asked the question - why waste £400,000 on a foregone conclusion that actually changes nothing for the Government.
Reform cant call a by election for Wilts East. Too much danger of losing which would be a massively damaging own goal and destroy the 'we are the real opposition on the right' narrative. But that sets a precedent.... id expect defections of sitting MPs to Reform to be rather rare before a GE now as they cant blow hot and cold on by elections and a raft of them looks a bit ummmm 'iffy' and opportunist
I wouldn't - a by-election costs £x0,000 to run, so why bother because it's just an opposition MP moving a few seats along the opposition benches.
Now it's slightly different if you are a Government MP moving to the opposition but again it won't matter.
And remember when you vote you vote the constituency's Member of Parliament (an individual). No matter what people think you don't vote for a party you vote for a person who is the nominated candidate of the party and as with @RochdalePioneers they could change their party alliance at any point (not a dig at RP btw he was just the best example to hand).
A rule on this would be useful so that opportunist vote or no vote depending doesn't come Into it. By election on defecting unless you have had the whip removed (not voluntarily) and find a new home or were elected as an indy and wish to take up a whip. Stops game playing.
The issue with that is it encourages MP to engage in behaviour that causes the whip to be removed.
And become unrecruitable elsewhere
Nah: an MP would just ignore their old party, insult their leader, vote against them, etc., and at which point the whip would be withdrawn.
OT according to Countdown, today is the anniversary of Charles Darwin reaching the Galapagos Islands and making a watercolour sketch of a table and tall glass of gin or lager.
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
So the exact story we've repeated on here many times before that by using hotels they have turned family memories into asylum hostels.
The problem is this was obvious (both in 2020 when Glasgow did it to house their homeless population during covid) and when the Tory party started doing it in 202?. And the problem is that thew problem can't be fixed enough for it not to be toxic to the labour - witness the court case to keep them in a hotel because the other options don't exist.
And even f they did they will be at least as equally toxic because a hotel is usually on the edge of the town (few residents) or the town centre (again few locals) while your typical HMO will be in a residential street.
Many of the hotels were rather grand, but have long degenerated, hence the use as asylum holding centres. There was an interesting FT article on the Britannia hotels chain. A slum landlord on the level of Rachman.
As I said the sort of places where you / your 50 year old mum had their wedding reception...
And yep they've gone to rack and ruin but the family's don't see that they see a fond memory desecrated in a way that wouldn't be the case if it had been boarded up.
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
And so it goes on and Farage grows stronger
And only 8 arrests so far and less than expected
I wonder if the police were under instructions to go softly softly, the idea being that too many arrests would have upset Nigel and, perhaps more importantly, Donald, Elon and JD. I do feel we've rather been put on notice by the latter three, and we need to demonstrate we've humbly taken their criticisms onboard and have addressed our attitude problems.
One odd thing about the Mandelson/Epstein emails – Mandelson describes Epstein as his ‘best pal’. If I were to hear a man use this phrase – or more commonly, ‘best friend’ or ‘best mate’ I would infer it to be someone he had known since childhood – or, at the very outset, since his late teens or early twenties. Can Jeffrey Epstein really be Peter Mandelson’s ‘best pal’? It paints a very strange picture of him.
Everything seems to paint an odd picture of Mandelson. It'd be nice to know what Mandelson actually honestly wanted from this life...
Position and wealth
Certainly not reputation.
Some senior politicians - e.g. Major, Balls, or Portillo, are hated during their time in politics, but become more popular afterwards. In the case of the latter two, through TV. Mandelson was admired for his skills, but also disliked, and when he left power seems to have done little to improve his standing.
The dynamics of this are curious. Blair, for instance, seems to have shed popularity despite retiring undefeated. Hague, his oppo number during his first term, has ended up being elected Chancellor of Oxford (handily beating Mandy in the process), and is seen as an all round good egg. What's at play here?
I don't see Hague as a particularly good egg, nor do I think being appointed the Chancellor of Oxford is necessarily a good indication of the common touch. Blair is less popular because he's gorged himself on more money from unsavoury people.
Blair had become deeply unpopular long before he took money from dodgy people.
You've forgotten Ecclestone etc?
Blair was dodgily taking money long before ge became unpopular.
There's a Netflix series to be made about the Labour Party's plotting against Jeremy Corbyn, and how it might even have cost Labour the 2017 general election.
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
And so it goes on and Farage grows stronger
And only 8 arrests so far and less than expected
I wonder if the police were under instructions to go softly softly, the idea being that too many arrests would have upset Nigel and, perhaps more importantly, Donald, Elon and JD. I do feel we've rather been put on notice by the latter three, and we need to demonstrate we've humbly taken their criticisms onboard and have addressed our attitude problems.
Mostly it was policy of the Thin Blue Line to film and arrest later. It keeps front line coppers in action on the day and allows dawn raids with safety later on. It's the way the long arm of the law works.
In a peaceful protest like the Palestine Action one a week before it is safer to arrest on the day. Also it's much less likely that the PA "Terrorists"feature in existing police files, so harder to trace.
Emergency debate about Mandelson tomorrow in Parliament
LOL. This is getting ridiculous.
Not really. As I see it, the question is did the PM lie about the sequencing of Mandy's appointment. Did he engage in (typical?) spin so as to give the impression, or indeed flatly state that he didn't know something that he did actually know because as we have seen with this PM, he is not averse to changing his mind or trying to change the facts to accord with what would have been politically preferable to have happened.
So it turns on his integrity which imo is grounds for an emergency debate.
Oh and if it comes down to the detail of what actually happened and who knew what and when and what they then did as a result....I'd back Mandy all day long over the PM (and his office).
Responding to your edit:
Mandelson has already had to 'resign' from government twice over dodgy dealings. Starmer, not once.
Why would you back Mandelson, given that?
(As an aside, what has Mandelson said about his departure? Is he actually personally at odds with Starmer?)
The point is that Mandy in all likelihood has a "little black book" or equivalent wherein he notes down all this stuff. Whatever else he is he is an operator.
"in all likelihood"
And given his history, why would you trust what's in this imaginary little black book as being the truth?
I am not convinced that Mandelson would want to go for early revenge. I think he will most likely keep quiet and lie low for a bit before popping up as an informal advisor. Why burn bridges and risk getting sent to Coventry?
Incidentally, I am not sure it is wise of the Tories to try to bring down Starmer. He would almost certainly be replaced by someone more formidable. Better to let him limp on wounded.
Reform cant call a by election for Wilts East. Too much danger of losing which would be a massively damaging own goal and destroy the 'we are the real opposition on the right' narrative. But that sets a precedent.... id expect defections of sitting MPs to Reform to be rather rare before a GE now as they cant blow hot and cold on by elections and a raft of them looks a bit ummmm 'iffy' and opportunist
I wouldn't - a by-election costs £x0,000 to run, so why bother because it's just an opposition MP moving a few seats along the opposition benches.
Now it's slightly different if you are a Government MP moving to the opposition but again it won't matter.
And remember when you vote you vote the constituency's Member of Parliament (an individual). No matter what people think you don't vote for a party you vote for a person who is the nominated candidate of the party and as with @RochdalePioneers they could change their party alliance at any point (not a dig at RP btw he was just the best example to hand).
A rule on this would be useful so that opportunist vote or no vote depending doesn't come Into it. By election on defecting unless you have had the whip removed (not voluntarily) and find a new home or were elected as an indy and wish to take up a whip. Stops game playing.
The issue with that is it encourages MP to engage in behaviour that causes the whip to be removed.
And become unrecruitable elsewhere
Nah: an MP would just ignore their old party, insult their leader, vote against them, etc., and at which point the whip would be withdrawn.
I'm surprised that's allowed but / and ouch - I don't give Everton much hope given that part of the story.
Got to say the other candidates (if there were any) must have looked around and thought - no chance....
When a side is punished or not like this there will always be other clubs unfairly dealt to. When Swindon were shamefully relegated out the First Division in 1990 the league chose to promote Sunderland, who had lost the play off final to Town. But why them? Why not Blackburn, who Town beat in the semis? Why not the team finishing 20th in the First Division staying up? Who knows. I assume there was a smoke filled room meeting.
Stephen Miller: “We are going to channel all the anger we have over the organized campaign to led to this assassination to uproot and dismantle these terrorist networks … The organized doxxing campaigns. The organized riots. The organized street violence. The organized of dehumanization. Vilification. Posting people’s addresses. Combining that with messaging designed to trigger and incite violence and the actual organized cells that carry out and facilitate the violence. It is a vast domestic terror movement. With God and as my witness, we are going to use every resource we have at the Department of Justice, Homeland Security and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, dismantle and destroy these networks, and make America safe again for the American people. It will happen, and we will do it in Charlie’s name.”
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
I don't think it's quite as simple as that.
I absolutely share your views of their leaders, but is it really the case that all 100k+ behaved like violent football fans, "to a man" ? There were evidently a load of thugs on the demo, but there were many who weren't.
I have no time at all for their politics, and the broadcast messages were vile, but I think BigG is right that you can't simply dismiss the whole thing as illegitimate.
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
And so it goes on and Farage grows stronger
And only 8 arrests so far and less than expected
I wonder if the police were under instructions to go softly softly, the idea being that too many arrests would have upset Nigel and, perhaps more importantly, Donald, Elon and JD. I do feel we've rather been put on notice by the latter three, and we need to demonstrate we've humbly taken their criticisms onboard and have addressed our attitude problems.
Or maybe there wasn’t that much trouble?
If twenty-six police officers were injured then those eight people were seriously tough.
Stephen Miller: “We are going to channel all the anger we have over the organized campaign to led to this assassination to uproot and dismantle these terrorist networks … The organized doxxing campaigns. The organized riots. The organized street violence. The organized of dehumanization. Vilification. Posting people’s addresses. Combining that with messaging designed to trigger and incite violence and the actual organized cells that carry out and facilitate the violence. It is a vast domestic terror movement. With God and as my witness, we are going to use every resource we have at the Department of Justice, Homeland Security and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, dismantle and destroy these networks, and make America safe again for the American people. It will happen, and we will do it in Charlie’s name.”
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
And so it goes on and Farage grows stronger
And only 8 arrests so far and less than expected
I wonder if the police were under instructions to go softly softly, the idea being that too many arrests would have upset Nigel and, perhaps more importantly, Donald, Elon and JD. I do feel we've rather been put on notice by the latter three, and we need to demonstrate we've humbly taken their criticisms onboard and have addressed our attitude problems.
It wasn't a Reform rally. Farage is not a fan of any of the organisers or most of the speakers
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
And so it goes on and Farage grows stronger
And only 8 arrests so far and less than expected
I wonder if the police were under instructions to go softly softly, the idea being that too many arrests would have upset Nigel and, perhaps more importantly, Donald, Elon and JD. I do feel we've rather been put on notice by the latter three, and we need to demonstrate we've humbly taken their criticisms onboard and have addressed our attitude problems.
Or maybe there wasn’t that much trouble?
If twenty-six police officers were injured then those eight people were seriously tough.
No doubt but only a few hundred would be needed to cause that. And I feel a lot of sympathy for the police, but I also don’t fully believe them.
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
And so it goes on and Farage grows stronger
And only 8 arrests so far and less than expected
I wonder if the police were under instructions to go softly softly, the idea being that too many arrests would have upset Nigel and, perhaps more importantly, Donald, Elon and JD. I do feel we've rather been put on notice by the latter three, and we need to demonstrate we've humbly taken their criticisms onboard and have addressed our attitude problems.
It wasn't a Reform rally. Farage is not a fan of any of the organisers or most of the speakers
Unless they stand a candidate in every constituency in 2028/9 - Farage is going to be the chief winner of the protest as those people are going to be voting Reform...
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
And so it goes on and Farage grows stronger
And only 8 arrests so far and less than expected
I wonder if the police were under instructions to go softly softly, the idea being that too many arrests would have upset Nigel and, perhaps more importantly, Donald, Elon and JD. I do feel we've rather been put on notice by the latter three, and we need to demonstrate we've humbly taken their criticisms onboard and have addressed our attitude problems.
Seems unlikely. No attempt ao far to get the police to stop being so tediously woke seems to have worked.
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
And so it goes on and Farage grows stronger
And only 8 arrests so far and less than expected
I wonder if the police were under instructions to go softly softly, the idea being that too many arrests would have upset Nigel and, perhaps more importantly, Donald, Elon and JD. I do feel we've rather been put on notice by the latter three, and we need to demonstrate we've humbly taken their criticisms onboard and have addressed our attitude problems.
Mostly it was policy of the Thin Blue Line to film and arrest later. It keeps front line coppers in action on the day and allows dawn raids with safety later on. It's the way the long arm of the law works.
In a peaceful protest like the Palestine Action one a week before it is safer to arrest on the day. Also it's much less likely that the PA "Terrorists"feature in existing police files, so harder to trace.
They just have to review domestic abuse convictions to home in on the main 'free speech' protestors, I believe. A very useful shortcut.
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
So the exact story we've repeated on here many times before that by using hotels they have turned family memories into asylum hostels.
The problem is this was obvious (both in 2020 when Glasgow did it to house their homeless population during covid) and when the Tory party started doing it in 202?. And the problem is that thew problem can't be fixed enough for it not to be toxic to the labour - witness the court case to keep them in a hotel because the other options don't exist.
And even f they did they will be at least as equally toxic because a hotel is usually on the edge of the town (few residents) or the town centre (again few locals) while your typical HMO will be in a residential street.
Many of the hotels were rather grand, but have long degenerated, hence the use as asylum holding centres. There was an interesting FT article on the Britannia hotels chain. A slum landlord on the level of Rachman.
It was a good article. The difficulty is... what are we meant to do with these provincial grand hotels? They were already unviable, which was why Britannia was able to buy them for buttons. And there is no way that any real investment to bring them up to a high standard will pay its way.
The pull-off-the-plaster solution is probably to recylce the buildings as something else if possible, and reuse the land for a new building if not. But even those answers require upfront spending, and they are emotionally traumatic for a town. (See also: old second-division department stores. The Grace Brothers concept was a glorious thing, but is pretty obsolete now we have online shopping. The former Debenhams building in Romford is now on its third attempt to have a shop in it. Each has been a variant on "get some homewares from the wholesalers and put them on the racking left by Debenhams". The latest iteration uses a union flag motif in its sign, but otherwise looks shabbier than the last two.)
Stephen Miller: “We are going to channel all the anger we have over the organized campaign to led to this assassination to uproot and dismantle these terrorist networks … The organized doxxing campaigns. The organized riots. The organized street violence. The organized of dehumanization. Vilification. Posting people’s addresses. Combining that with messaging designed to trigger and incite violence and the actual organized cells that carry out and facilitate the violence. It is a vast domestic terror movement. With God and as my witness, we are going to use every resource we have at the Department of Justice, Homeland Security and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, dismantle and destroy these networks, and make America safe again for the American people. It will happen, and we will do it in Charlie’s name.”
Stephen Miller: “We are going to channel all the anger we have over the organized campaign to led to this assassination to uproot and dismantle these terrorist networks … The organized doxxing campaigns. The organized riots. The organized street violence. The organized of dehumanization. Vilification. Posting people’s addresses. Combining that with messaging designed to trigger and incite violence and the actual organized cells that carry out and facilitate the violence. It is a vast domestic terror movement. With God and as my witness, we are going to use every resource we have at the Department of Justice, Homeland Security and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, dismantle and destroy these networks, and make America safe again for the American people. It will happen, and we will do it in Charlie’s name.”
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
And so it goes on and Farage grows stronger
And only 8 arrests so far and less than expected
I wonder if the police were under instructions to go softly softly, the idea being that too many arrests would have upset Nigel and, perhaps more importantly, Donald, Elon and JD. I do feel we've rather been put on notice by the latter three, and we need to demonstrate we've humbly taken their criticisms onboard and have addressed our attitude problems.
It wasn't a Reform rally. Farage is not a fan of any of the organisers or most of the speakers
Unless they stand a candidate in every constituency in 2028/9 - Farage is going to be the chief winner of the protest as those people are going to be voting Reform...
Some will, yes. Some wont vote, some will vote Tory, some will vote for others. The idea that every 'angry patriot' is Reform or is now utterly wedded to voting for Farage come hell or high water is bunkum. They are at 30% in the polls, not 50%
Sienna Rodgers @siennamarla · 4h Paul Ovenden going is big news. The highly influential director of political strategy, formerly in the comms team and then head of attack and rebuttal, was Morgan McSweeney's main ally.
Stephen Miller: “We are going to channel all the anger we have over the organized campaign to led to this assassination to uproot and dismantle these terrorist networks … The organized doxxing campaigns. The organized riots. The organized street violence. The organized of dehumanization. Vilification. Posting people’s addresses. Combining that with messaging designed to trigger and incite violence and the actual organized cells that carry out and facilitate the violence. It is a vast domestic terror movement. With God and as my witness, we are going to use every resource we have at the Department of Justice, Homeland Security and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, dismantle and destroy these networks, and make America safe again for the American people. It will happen, and we will do it in Charlie’s name.”
Emergency debate about Mandelson tomorrow in Parliament
LOL. This is getting ridiculous.
Not really. As I see it, the question is did the PM lie about the sequencing of Mandy's appointment. Did he engage in (typical?) spin so as to give the impression, or indeed flatly state that he didn't know something that he did actually know because as we have seen with this PM, he is not averse to changing his mind or trying to change the facts to accord with what would have been politically preferable to have happened.
So it turns on his integrity which imo is grounds for an emergency debate.
Oh and if it comes down to the detail of what actually happened and who knew what and when and what they then did as a result....I'd back Mandy all day long over the PM (and his office).
Responding to your edit:
Mandelson has already had to 'resign' from government twice over dodgy dealings. Starmer, not once.
Why would you back Mandelson, given that?
(As an aside, what has Mandelson said about his departure? Is he actually personally at odds with Starmer?)
The point is that Mandy in all likelihood has a "little black book" or equivalent wherein he notes down all this stuff. Whatever else he is he is an operator.
"in all likelihood"
And given his history, why would you trust what's in this imaginary little black book as being the truth?
I am not convinced that Mandelson would want to go for early revenge. I think he will most likely keep quiet and lie low for a bit before popping up as an informal advisor. Why burn bridges and risk getting sent to Coventry?
Incidentally, I am not sure it is wise of the Tories to try to bring down Starmer. He would almost certainly be replaced by someone more formidable. Better to let him limp on wounded.
Who?
What you might get is someone who: a) is better at enthusing the left, winning voters back from Lib, Green and Sofa to Lab b) does policy things that are less agreeable to anyone of a centre-right disposition (Starmer's sucessor is likely to go a lot further and faster on Europe than SKS) c) is less competent as a manager of systems (no giggling at the back).
Remember, the consequence of Starmer falling isn't the right back in government. It's someone else with nearly four years to play with and a huge majority. Be very careful what you wish for.
Sienna Rodgers @siennamarla · 4h Paul Ovenden going is big news. The highly influential director of political strategy, formerly in the comms team and then head of attack and rebuttal, was Morgan McSweeney's main ally.
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
And so it goes on and Farage grows stronger
And only 8 arrests so far and less than expected
I wonder if the police were under instructions to go softly softly, the idea being that too many arrests would have upset Nigel and, perhaps more importantly, Donald, Elon and JD. I do feel we've rather been put on notice by the latter three, and we need to demonstrate we've humbly taken their criticisms onboard and have addressed our attitude problems.
Mostly it was policy of the Thin Blue Line to film and arrest later. It keeps front line coppers in action on the day and allows dawn raids with safety later on. It's the way the long arm of the law works.
In a peaceful protest like the Palestine Action one a week before it is safer to arrest on the day. Also it's much less likely that the PA "Terrorists"feature in existing police files, so harder to trace.
They just have to review domestic abuse convictions to home in on the main 'free speech' protestors, I believe. A very useful shortcut.
The opposite is equally relevant, I suspect you could identify likely domestic abusers simply by looking at those protesting
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
I don't think it's quite as simple as that.
I absolutely share your views of their leaders, but is it really the case that all 100k+ behaved like violent football fans, "to a man" ? There were evidently a load of thugs on the demo, but there were many who weren't.
I have no time at all for their politics, and the broadcast messages were vile, but I think BigG is right that you can't simply dismiss the whole thing as illegitimate.
You're right of course in that some if not many or if not most were there for entirely peaceable protest.
But the 'there' takes some looking into. Why on earth would you align yourself with the people organising it?
And even if you have thought it through then is marching really the right path?
Of course it's legitimate to march - but to my mind it's always a poor choice as I don't think that any sizeable group of humans ever do anything wisely.
Emergency debate about Mandelson tomorrow in Parliament
LOL. This is getting ridiculous.
Not really. As I see it, the question is did the PM lie about the sequencing of Mandy's appointment. Did he engage in (typical?) spin so as to give the impression, or indeed flatly state that he didn't know something that he did actually know because as we have seen with this PM, he is not averse to changing his mind or trying to change the facts to accord with what would have been politically preferable to have happened.
So it turns on his integrity which imo is grounds for an emergency debate.
Oh and if it comes down to the detail of what actually happened and who knew what and when and what they then did as a result....I'd back Mandy all day long over the PM (and his office).
Responding to your edit:
Mandelson has already had to 'resign' from government twice over dodgy dealings. Starmer, not once.
Why would you back Mandelson, given that?
(As an aside, what has Mandelson said about his departure? Is he actually personally at odds with Starmer?)
The point is that Mandy in all likelihood has a "little black book" or equivalent wherein he notes down all this stuff. Whatever else he is he is an operator.
"in all likelihood"
And given his history, why would you trust what's in this imaginary little black book as being the truth?
I am not convinced that Mandelson would want to go for early revenge. I think he will most likely keep quiet and lie low for a bit before popping up as an informal advisor. Why burn bridges and risk getting sent to Coventry?
Incidentally, I am not sure it is wise of the Tories to try to bring down Starmer. He would almost certainly be replaced by someone more formidable. Better to let him limp on wounded.
Who?
What you might get is someone who: a) is better at enthusing the left, winning voters back from Lib, Green and Sofa to Lab b) does policy things that are less agreeable to anyone of a centre-right disposition (Starmer's sucessor is likely to go a lot further and faster on Europe than SKS) c) is less competent as a manager of systems (no giggling at the back).
Remember, the consequence of Starmer falling isn't the right back in government. It's someone else with nearly four years to play with and a huge majority. Be very careful what you wish for.
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
So the exact story we've repeated on here many times before that by using hotels they have turned family memories into asylum hostels.
The problem is this was obvious (both in 2020 when Glasgow did it to house their homeless population during covid) and when the Tory party started doing it in 202?. And the problem is that thew problem can't be fixed enough for it not to be toxic to the labour - witness the court case to keep them in a hotel because the other options don't exist.
And even f they did they will be at least as equally toxic because a hotel is usually on the edge of the town (few residents) or the town centre (again few locals) while your typical HMO will be in a residential street.
Many of the hotels were rather grand, but have long degenerated, hence the use as asylum holding centres. There was an interesting FT article on the Britannia hotels chain. A slum landlord on the level of Rachman.
It was a good article. The difficulty is... what are we meant to do with these provincial grand hotels? They were already unviable, which was why Britannia was able to buy them for buttons. And there is no way that any real investment to bring them up to a high standard will pay its way.
The pull-off-the-plaster solution is probably to recylce the buildings as something else if possible, and reuse the land for a new building if not. But even those answers require upfront spending, and they are emotionally traumatic for a town. (See also: old second-division department stores. The Grace Brothers concept was a glorious thing, but is pretty obsolete now we have online shopping. The former Debenhams building in Romford is now on its third attempt to have a shop in it. Each has been a variant on "get some homewares from the wholesalers and put them on the racking left by Debenhams". The latest iteration uses a union flag motif in its sign, but otherwise looks shabbier than the last two.)
Darlington still has Binns / House of Fraser. It has it because someone spent £1m to buy the building and then worked miracles to keep them there.
Sadly I can't say I've helped as I've not been in there in 9 months but then again apart from trips to opticians, the good bakery and evenings out I've not been in town for 9 months.
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
And so it goes on and Farage grows stronger
And only 8 arrests so far and less than expected
I wonder if the police were under instructions to go softly softly, the idea being that too many arrests would have upset Nigel and, perhaps more importantly, Donald, Elon and JD. I do feel we've rather been put on notice by the latter three, and we need to demonstrate we've humbly taken their criticisms onboard and have addressed our attitude problems.
Mostly it was policy of the Thin Blue Line to film and arrest later. It keeps front line coppers in action on the day and allows dawn raids with safety later on. It's the way the long arm of the law works.
In a peaceful protest like the Palestine Action one a week before it is safer to arrest on the day. Also it's much less likely that the PA "Terrorists"feature in existing police files, so harder to trace.
They just have to review domestic abuse convictions to home in on the main 'free speech' protestors, I believe. A very useful shortcut.
The opposite is equally relevant, I suspect you could identify likely domestic abusers simply by looking at those protesting
It's all getting a bit Meeksy on here this evening.
Sienna Rodgers @siennamarla · 4h Paul Ovenden going is big news. The highly influential director of political strategy, formerly in the comms team and then head of attack and rebuttal, was Morgan McSweeney's main ally.
Is it just me or is there a slight look in the eye from Kruger during the video of his press event with Farage where it looks like he is wondering what he has done?
For anyone who likes a Norfolk take, my current assessment of most likely seats for each party from most to least likely
Reform - Norwich North, NW Norfolk, Great Yarmouth (if Rupert drops out then its massive favourite obviously), SW Norfolk, Mid Norfolk, Broadland and Fakenham, South Norfolk, North Norfolk, Norwich South
Tories - South Norfolk, North Norfolk, Broadland and Fakenham, Mid Norfolk, SW Norfolk, NW Norfolk, (Norwich North, Great Yarmouth, Norwich South in that order but no chance in any)
Labour - Norwich South, Norwich North, No other realistic chances but South Norfolk hold ahead of SW Norfolk
I see some Tory activists are going down the “I never liked Kruger” route. Fools. The mood among the adults is shock & sadness: they’ve lost a man they should never lose, & more will now follow.
I see some Tory activists are going down the “I never liked Kruger” route. Fools. The mood among the adults is shock & sadness: they’ve lost a man they should never lose, & more will now follow.
Is it just me or is there a slight look in the eye from Kruger during the video of his press event with Farage where it looks like he is wondering what he has done?
They'll all be wondering that. Dorries already does id imagine. The happy ones are those that have eminently tradable/losable principles and are just after a career move like Laila Cunningham or Pochin, Anderson etc
Stephen Miller: “We are going to channel all the anger we have over the organized campaign to led to this assassination to uproot and dismantle these terrorist networks … The organized doxxing campaigns. The organized riots. The organized street violence. The organized of dehumanization. Vilification. Posting people’s addresses. Combining that with messaging designed to trigger and incite violence and the actual organized cells that carry out and facilitate the violence. It is a vast domestic terror movement. With God and as my witness, we are going to use every resource we have at the Department of Justice, Homeland Security and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, dismantle and destroy these networks, and make America safe again for the American people. It will happen, and we will do it in Charlie’s name.”
Miller looks and behaves like Doctor Evil. Doctor Evil was a comic caricature, Miller seems to be even more of a World domineering comic villain than was Doctor Evil.
Is it just me or is there a slight look in the eye from Kruger during the video of his press event with Farage where it looks like he is wondering what he has done?
Things haven't been going quite so swimmingly for Nigel in recent weeks, to the extent that we may have passed peak Nigel. If Kruger's defection was planned before that then he might have the sense of a rat joining a sinking ship. He may also have been introduced to Reform's internal operations, which may not have been what he expected.
Comments
You give facts: Ivan is ill; Cameron admitted using dope at Eton;. You then combine the two to make innuendo that the latter caused the former, and 'suggest' that release of private medical information will help. In reality, it just gives more 'facts' to twist.
And given his history, why would you trust what's in this imaginary little black book as being the truth?
I wouldn't buy a used car from the man. He is totally untrustworthy. Everyone knows he is not telling the truth.
So the fast train from York at 18:00 is followed by a slow train that stops everywhere at 18:02.
The 18:00 is running slightly late and I've had 3 announcements saying that they are not 100% sure if the 18:02 is being held but lets think about this for a second.
if the train goes everyone going to any station between York and London is going to get a full refund as the next train is 19:02 and a 60+ minute delay is a full refund - hmm I wonder what happened.
After all it's not going to make any difference if a Tory MP defects to Reform they are still going to vote against most Labour Government legislation...
Incidentally, I am not sure it is wise of the Tories to try to bring down Starmer. He would almost certainly be replaced by someone more formidable. Better to let him limp on wounded.
Meanwhile this article highlights that we have not been spending all of the benefits money that the country could. Some £24bn has been going begging. A quote from the article to highlight the gap between what is being done and what could have happened. An efficient DWP would have cost a lot more in terms of monies paid out.
“The scale of unclaimed support in Britain is still staggering,” Deven Ghelani director and founder of Policy in Practice said.
“Over £24 billion is left on the table at a time when many are struggling to stay afloat. But this isn’t a failure of the public. It’s a failure of a social security system that is still too complex, too fragmented and too passive.
“The good news is that we now have the tools to fix this."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/unclaimed-benefits-support-report-awareness-b2825873.html
He went on to say that on Thursday at Chequers there will be a joint conference with Trump and Starmer to announce various deals, and Mandelson will be front and centre of questions from the journalists present
And by the way, a Labour government without Starmer and Reeves could be a good thing
I find all 100,000 guilty.
https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/1967641138640388297?s=19
Starmer at his lowest ever -46 with just 17% saying good job
Davey and Farage -10 and -7 a little down but within MoE
Badenoch -23 a slight uptick after Evisceration week but only back to where she was a few weeks ago
Burnley sue Everton for £50m in relegation legal battle
Lawyers on both sides have spent a year preparing their arguments
Burnley’s £50m-plus compensation case against Everton is due to start this week, with potentially huge ramifications for the Premier League.
The Clarets claim they are owed compensation after Everton were found in breach of the Premier League’s profitability and sustainability rules (PSR).
Everton were handed a 10-point deduction in November 2023, later reduced to six on appeal.
Had the points deduction been applied the previous season, Burnley would have avoided relegation with Everton dropping into the bottom three instead.
The case will commence in the middle of this week at the International Dispute Resolution Centre in St Paul’s, London.
It is understood that Burnley, who were relegated in 2022, will argue they are entitled to compensation because Everton gained sporting advantage by breaching those rules.
The i Paper understands Burnley’s claim, which centres on revenue lost by dropping into the Championship, is in excess of £50m.
Lawyers on both sides have spent around a year preparing their case, which will be heard in private.
There is no timescale for when a verdict will be delivered and the public may never learn of the outcome.
Burnley’s general counsel, Amy Wells, was Everton’s head of legal from July 2017 to December 2022. She joined Burnley in April 2024.
https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/burnley-sue-everton-relegation-legal-battle-3919512
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
What's at play here?
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
In Blair's case, Iraq hangs around him like the stink from a pig farm. And I think many on the left of the party, who may have been very glad to be in power, are more than happy to give his reputation a kicking now. He's also been less 'stately' since he left office. So both left and right love to give him a bit of a kicking - but he does not help his own cause.
And only 8 arrests so far and less than expected
Basically he’s a bit needy
So the exact story we've repeated on here many times before that by using hotels they have turned family memories into asylum hostels.
The problem is this was obvious (both in 2020 when Glasgow did it to house their homeless population during covid) and when the Tory party started doing it in 202?. And the problem is that thew problem can't be fixed enough for it not to be toxic to the labour - witness the court case to keep them in a hotel because the other options don't exist.
And even f they did they will be at least as equally toxic because a hotel is usually on the edge of the town (few residents) or the town centre (again few locals) while your typical HMO will be in a residential street.
Lololololololol
Got to say the other candidates (if there were any) must have looked around and thought - no chance....
https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2016-02-25/HL6438
https://bsky.app/profile/jenwilliamsft.bsky.social/post/3lype6qqjec2a
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain_Day
And yep they've gone to rack and ruin but the family's don't see that they see a fond memory desecrated in a way that wouldn't be the case if it had been boarded up.
Blair was dodgily taking money long before ge became unpopular.
In a peaceful protest like the Palestine Action one a week before it is safer to arrest on the day. Also it's much less likely that the PA "Terrorists"feature in existing police files, so harder to trace.
I assume there was a smoke filled room meeting.
"It is a vast domestic terror movement."
Aaron Rupar
@atrupar
Stephen Miller: “We are going to channel all the anger we have over the organized campaign to led to this assassination to uproot and dismantle these terrorist networks … The organized doxxing campaigns. The organized riots. The organized street violence. The organized of dehumanization. Vilification. Posting people’s addresses. Combining that with messaging designed to trigger and incite violence and the actual organized cells that carry out and facilitate the violence. It is a vast domestic terror movement. With God and as my witness, we are going to use every resource we have at the Department of Justice, Homeland Security and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, dismantle and destroy these networks, and make America safe again for the American people. It will happen, and we will do it in Charlie’s name.”
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1967644960917778911
I absolutely share your views of their leaders, but is it really the case that all 100k+ behaved like violent football fans, "to a man" ?
There were evidently a load of thugs on the demo, but there were many who weren't.
I have no time at all for their politics, and the broadcast messages were vile, but I think BigG is right that you can't simply dismiss the whole thing as illegitimate.
The pull-off-the-plaster solution is probably to recylce the buildings as something else if possible, and reuse the land for a new building if not. But even those answers require upfront spending, and they are emotionally traumatic for a town. (See also: old second-division department stores. The Grace Brothers concept was a glorious thing, but is pretty obsolete now we have online shopping. The former Debenhams building in Romford is now on its third attempt to have a shop in it. Each has been a variant on "get some homewares from the wholesalers and put them on the racking left by Debenhams". The latest iteration uses a union flag motif in its sign, but otherwise looks shabbier than the last two.)
Sienna Rodgers
@siennamarla
·
4h
Paul Ovenden going is big news. The highly influential director of political strategy, formerly in the comms team and then head of attack and rebuttal, was Morgan McSweeney's main ally.
https://x.com/siennamarla/status/1967591334715527665
a) is better at enthusing the left, winning voters back from Lib, Green and Sofa to Lab
b) does policy things that are less agreeable to anyone of a centre-right disposition (Starmer's sucessor is likely to go a lot further and faster on Europe than SKS)
c) is less competent as a manager of systems (no giggling at the back).
Remember, the consequence of Starmer falling isn't the right back in government. It's someone else with nearly four years to play with and a huge majority. Be very careful what you wish for.
But the 'there' takes some looking into. Why on earth would you align yourself with the people organising it?
And even if you have thought it through then is marching really the right path?
Of course it's legitimate to march - but to my mind it's always a poor choice as I don't think that any sizeable group of humans ever do anything wisely.
Sadly I can't say I've helped as I've not been in there in 9 months but then again apart from trips to opticians, the good bakery and evenings out I've not been in town for 9 months.
shotsacked...This is one of the pictures that the Met have posted of people they want help tracing in connection with violent disorder on Saturday
https://news.met.police.uk/news/appeal-to-trace-11-people-linked-to-disorder-near-whitehall-501044
Reform - Norwich North, NW Norfolk, Great Yarmouth (if Rupert drops out then its massive favourite obviously), SW Norfolk, Mid Norfolk, Broadland and Fakenham, South Norfolk, North Norfolk, Norwich South
Tories - South Norfolk, North Norfolk, Broadland and Fakenham, Mid Norfolk, SW Norfolk, NW Norfolk, (Norwich North, Great Yarmouth, Norwich South in that order but no chance in any)
Labour - Norwich South, Norwich North, No other realistic chances but South Norfolk hold ahead of SW Norfolk
LD - North Norfolk. No other chances
@timothy_stanley
I see some Tory activists are going down the “I never liked Kruger” route. Fools. The mood among the adults is shock & sadness: they’ve lost a man they should never lose, & more will now follow.
https://x.com/timothy_stanley/status/1967637977913495987
Watch this space.
Reform do not believe in free markets.
The happy ones are those that have eminently tradable/losable principles and are just after a career move like Laila Cunningham or Pochin, Anderson etc
Michael Crick believes Danny Kruger's the second coming......
Steve Baker thinks he's the best thing since Maggie (excluding himself)
......With Tommy and his bunch of thugs ......Farage with his freebe house .......and Kemi sounding like Mrs Robinson
This has turned out to be a surprisingly good day for Sir Keir.