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You were working as a waitress in a cocktail bar when I met you – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,680
edited 7:36AM in General
You were working as a waitress in a cocktail bar when I met you – politicalbetting.com

The tax arrangements of politicians buying properties has been in the news recently which helped topple the Deputy Prime Minister so Nigel Farage’s arrangements when it comes to property in his constituency, as The Times notes ‘Had Farage purchased [the property] himself, he would have been liable to pay the £44,250 surcharge in stamp duty for second homes.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    1st like SKS (to be sacked)
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,967
    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    SKS to be gone by May 2026

    Or sooner if he continues down the austerity Reeves route.

    The reshuffle takes him deeper down that route BTW
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,915

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    The idea that a member of the “elite” can’t represent the “non-elite” doesn’t pass the test of history.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,155
    Surely Making Plans for Nigel was just a Love Action for Ms Ferrari?

    And now he is Being Boiled over it...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,756
    Foxy said:

    Surely Making Plans for Nigel was just a Love Action for Ms Ferrari?

    And now he is Being Boiled over it...

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle musical reference in the headline.
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 448

    Foxy said:

    Surely Making Plans for Nigel was just a Love Action for Ms Ferrari?

    And now he is Being Boiled over it...

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle musical reference in the headline.
    (Subtle?)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,188

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    Good morning

    It worked for Starmer [ Ming vase] and look where we are now

    To be honest I think Farage will find it difficult to gain a majority, but then if Labour with Starmer continue on the same path then they are putting in a lot of groundwork for Farage to win

    As far as his girlfriend's flat is concerned I doubt he will be found to have done anything wrong though many seem to think this is the 'gotcha'
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,659
    edited 7:16AM
    FPT, Trump, following the Kirk news; "A lot of people you would traditionally find on the left are already under investigation."

    https://x.com/rawsalerts/status/1967363161419600214

    Look also at the comments below, for a sense of where Anerica is heading, without some major corrections.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,787

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    Good morning

    It worked for Starmer [ Ming vase] and look where we are now

    To be honest I think Farage will find it difficult to gain a majority, but then if Labour with Starmer continue on the same path then they are putting in a lot of groundwork for Farage to win

    As far as his girlfriend's flat is concerned I doubt he will be found to have done anything wrong though many seem to think this is the 'gotcha'
    Hasn't the groundwork for the Reform surge mostly been done by the Conservative party?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,756

    Foxy said:

    Surely Making Plans for Nigel was just a Love Action for Ms Ferrari?

    And now he is Being Boiled over it...

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle musical reference in the headline.
    (Subtle?)
    Subtle for me.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,188

    SKS to be gone by May 2026

    Or sooner if he continues down the austerity Reeves route.

    The reshuffle takes him deeper down that route BTW

    Starmer faces a big test in May and if he loses Scotland and Wales then that will be a real moment of peril
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,188

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    Good morning

    It worked for Starmer [ Ming vase] and look where we are now

    To be honest I think Farage will find it difficult to gain a majority, but then if Labour with Starmer continue on the same path then they are putting in a lot of groundwork for Farage to win

    As far as his girlfriend's flat is concerned I doubt he will be found to have done anything wrong though many seem to think this is the 'gotcha'
    Hasn't the groundwork for the Reform surge mostly been done by the Conservative party?
    Good try but the first 15 months of Starmer has turbo charged Farage
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,502
    DavidL said:

    I've no idea and not much more interest but it is entirely possible that she was making her own way when they met in low paid employment but that her parents are loaded and helped her out buying this property. The 2 versions are not necessarily inconsistent.

    My concern is despite all this gotcha nonsense for Farage and Rayner the focus is never on how ridiculous our rules and indeed taxes are on the buying of property. Why on earth should buying a house be a taxable event? How does this help job mobility, younger buyers wanting to have families, investment in the housing stock etc etc? Are we not acting directly against several important public policies? They are stupid taxes and have become ever more so as we try to penalise those with more than one property.

    CGT on the vendor? Both taxes try to claw back some of the capital gain in the housing market boosted by successive, mainly Tory, governments.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,659
    edited 7:23AM
    Sorry, the full video of Trumps McCarthyite pledge, is here:

    https://x.com/GuntherEagleman/status/1967359070421319681

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,188
    Sir Malcolm Rifkind on Sky suggests that Starmer and Trump will avoid a press conference because 'we all know what the questions will be'
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,880

    Foxy said:

    Surely Making Plans for Nigel was just a Love Action for Ms Ferrari?

    And now he is Being Boiled over it...

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle musical reference in the headline.
    So subtle that you missed out half the line.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,155
    edited 7:26AM
    DavidL said:

    I've no idea and not much more interest but it is entirely possible that she was making her own way when they met in low paid employment but that her parents are loaded and helped her out buying this property. The 2 versions are not necessarily inconsistent.

    My concern is despite all this gotcha nonsense for Farage and Rayner the focus is never on how ridiculous our rules and indeed taxes are on the buying of property. Why on earth should buying a house be a taxable event? How does this help job mobility, younger buyers wanting to have families, investment in the housing stock etc etc? Are we not acting directly against several important public policies? They are stupid taxes and have become ever more so as we try to penalise those with more than one property.

    Yes, Stamp Duty is a tax on labour mobility as a design. It also is part of the reason why people dont downsize. Both it and Council Tax would be better replaced with a single property tax paid annually.

    If Ms Ferrari did indeed use family money to buy a house then surely she would have to have proven to her solicitor the source of funds? It should be easy for her to kill the story if so, as the evidence is at hand.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,376
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    I've no idea and not much more interest but it is entirely possible that she was making her own way when they met in low paid employment but that her parents are loaded and helped her out buying this property. The 2 versions are not necessarily inconsistent.

    My concern is despite all this gotcha nonsense for Farage and Rayner the focus is never on how ridiculous our rules and indeed taxes are on the buying of property. Why on earth should buying a house be a taxable event? How does this help job mobility, younger buyers wanting to have families, investment in the housing stock etc etc? Are we not acting directly against several important public policies? They are stupid taxes and have become ever more so as we try to penalise those with more than one property.

    CGT on the vendor? Both taxes try to claw back some of the capital gain in the housing market boosted by successive, mainly Tory, governments.
    CGT on the vendor makes a lot more sense than what we do right now but it also discourages downsizing, job mobility etc. Almost all taxes have some negative effects but property taxes seem to me to be much more pernicious than most.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,150
    edited 7:24AM

    Sir Malcolm Rifkind on Sky suggests that Starmer and Trump will avoid a press conference because 'we all know what the questions will be'

    Morning all.
    Yep, as i suggested yesterday. He cant affird the questions or allow HMKs guest to be embarrassed by the questions.
    Of course no presser would open its own questions
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,857
    So what if he gave his girlfriend the money? Provided there is no written agreement that triggers General anti-Avoidance Provisions then she owns the property, paid the appropriate tax and the nature of their relationship is up to them.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,188
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    I've no idea and not much more interest but it is entirely possible that she was making her own way when they met in low paid employment but that her parents are loaded and helped her out buying this property. The 2 versions are not necessarily inconsistent.

    My concern is despite all this gotcha nonsense for Farage and Rayner the focus is never on how ridiculous our rules and indeed taxes are on the buying of property. Why on earth should buying a house be a taxable event? How does this help job mobility, younger buyers wanting to have families, investment in the housing stock etc etc? Are we not acting directly against several important public policies? They are stupid taxes and have become ever more so as we try to penalise those with more than one property.

    CGT on the vendor? Both taxes try to claw back some of the capital gain in the housing market boosted by successive, mainly Tory, governments.
    No government would survive putting CGT on the sale of private property
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,373

    SKS to be gone by May 2026

    Or sooner if he continues down the austerity Reeves route.

    The reshuffle takes him deeper down that route BTW

    Starmer faces a big test in May and if he loses Scotland and Wales then that will be a real moment of peril
    Labour can't lose Scotland - we were third last time.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,105
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    I've no idea and not much more interest but it is entirely possible that she was making her own way when they met in low paid employment but that her parents are loaded and helped her out buying this property. The 2 versions are not necessarily inconsistent.

    My concern is despite all this gotcha nonsense for Farage and Rayner the focus is never on how ridiculous our rules and indeed taxes are on the buying of property. Why on earth should buying a house be a taxable event? How does this help job mobility, younger buyers wanting to have families, investment in the housing stock etc etc? Are we not acting directly against several important public policies? They are stupid taxes and have become ever more so as we try to penalise those with more than one property.

    Yes, Stamp Duty is a tax on labour mobility as a design. It also is part of the reason why people dont downsize. Both it and Council Tax would be better replaced with a single property tax paid annually.
    And the deeply frustrating thing is that I think some in government were looking at this. But they can’t do anything on SDLT now because of the recent scandal.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,787
    On topic, very few things are so binary as to be totally inexcusable. And one of the things that an effective politician does is make the excuses swallowable. We're seeing that a bit with the "it's OK to have weird financial arrangements as long as you don't criticise other for it" line.

    Farage isn't a minister, so the code doesn't apply. And it's his party, so he can't be sacked from that. But even if it doesn't bring him down, or meaningfully dent his ratings, public knowledge is in general a good thing.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,188

    SKS to be gone by May 2026

    Or sooner if he continues down the austerity Reeves route.

    The reshuffle takes him deeper down that route BTW

    Starmer faces a big test in May and if he loses Scotland and Wales then that will be a real moment of peril
    Labour can't lose Scotland - we were third last time.
    They can lose seats
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,140

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    Good morning

    It worked for Starmer [ Ming vase] and look where we are now

    To be honest I think Farage will find it difficult to gain a majority, but then if Labour with Starmer continue on the same path then they are putting in a lot of groundwork for Farage to win

    As far as his girlfriend's flat is concerned I doubt he will be found to have done anything wrong though many seem to think this is the 'gotcha'
    Hasn't the groundwork for the Reform surge mostly been done by the Conservative party?
    Good try but the first 15 months of Starmer has turbo charged Farage
    It’s been a fabulous team effort. It is worth remembering however, on whose watch most of your average Reform voters complaints manifested. PC culture and the rise of DEI. Mass migration bidding down wages. Illegal migration changing the nature of society. Fiscal incontinence monetised by sleight of hand, bidding up property prices and squeezing government budgets. The dismantling of defence capability. The rise in property crime. The political weaponisation of super injunctions. The noses at the trough with government contracts Etc…

    Do not misunderstand me, the new government is giving it a cracking go at being even worse. But it is hard to understand how anything other than misplaced brand loyalty is keeping the Tories in double figures in the polls.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,373

    SKS to be gone by May 2026

    Or sooner if he continues down the austerity Reeves route.

    The reshuffle takes him deeper down that route BTW

    Starmer faces a big test in May and if he loses Scotland and Wales then that will be a real moment of peril
    Labour can't lose Scotland - we were third last time.
    They can lose seats
    Now that would be disastrous.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,155

    So what if he gave his girlfriend the money? Provided there is no written agreement that triggers General anti-Avoidance Provisions then she owns the property, paid the appropriate tax and the nature of their relationship is up to them.

    Farage has stated that he did not give her the money.

    So presumably someone else did. Farage wouldn't lie surely?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,967

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    The idea that a member of the “elite” can’t represent the “non-elite” doesn’t pass the test of history.
    Where did I say that? I said that he claims not to be the elite.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,188

    Sir Malcolm Rifkind on Sky suggests that Starmer and Trump will avoid a press conference because 'we all know what the questions will be'

    Morning all.
    Yep, as i suggested yesterday. He cant affird the questions or allow HMKs guest to be embarrassed by the questions.
    Of course no presser would open its own questions
    The point is Trump always wants to be on the media and he will be asked whether Starmer is standing beside him, or hiding in a fridge
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,150

    Sir Malcolm Rifkind on Sky suggests that Starmer and Trump will avoid a press conference because 'we all know what the questions will be'

    Morning all.
    Yep, as i suggested yesterday. He cant affird the questions or allow HMKs guest to be embarrassed by the questions.
    Of course no presser would open its own questions
    The point is Trump always wants to be on the media and he will be asked whether Starmer is standing beside him, or hiding in a fridge
    This week has the potential to be hilarious
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,787

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    Good morning

    It worked for Starmer [ Ming vase] and look where we are now

    To be honest I think Farage will find it difficult to gain a majority, but then if Labour with Starmer continue on the same path then they are putting in a lot of groundwork for Farage to win

    As far as his girlfriend's flat is concerned I doubt he will be found to have done anything wrong though many seem to think this is the 'gotcha'
    Hasn't the groundwork for the Reform surge mostly been done by the Conservative party?
    Good try but the first 15 months of Starmer has turbo charged Farage
    I appreciate that it's upsetting for loyal Conservatives, but that isn't what's happened. There have been two big flows, Con to Ref and Lab to Lib/Green/No vote.

    Labour's fall is due to a bad hand being played badly, sure. But the Reform rise is mostly because the official opposition have not only failed to exploit that, they have lost even more support since 2024 to Farage.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,857
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    I've no idea and not much more interest but it is entirely possible that she was making her own way when they met in low paid employment but that her parents are loaded and helped her out buying this property. The 2 versions are not necessarily inconsistent.

    My concern is despite all this gotcha nonsense for Farage and Rayner the focus is never on how ridiculous our rules and indeed taxes are on the buying of property. Why on earth should buying a house be a taxable event? How does this help job mobility, younger buyers wanting to have families, investment in the housing stock etc etc? Are we not acting directly against several important public policies? They are stupid taxes and have become ever more so as we try to penalise those with more than one property.

    CGT on the vendor? Both taxes try to claw back some of the capital gain in the housing market boosted by successive, mainly Tory, governments.
    With rollover relief yes. Otherwise no one would ever sell. If they could avoid it
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,502

    Sir Malcolm Rifkind on Sky suggests that Starmer and Trump will avoid a press conference because 'we all know what the questions will be'

    Morning all.
    Yep, as i suggested yesterday. He cant affird the questions or allow HMKs guest to be embarrassed by the questions.
    Of course no presser would open its own questions
    The point is Trump always wants to be on the media and he will be asked whether Starmer is standing beside him, or hiding in a fridge
    Bit unfair to blame SKS for Mr Johnson's little strategies.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,254
    Is there anything to stop Farage's girlfriend selling the property and walking away with the money ?

    If not then this story is going nowhere.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,188
    Carnyx said:

    Sir Malcolm Rifkind on Sky suggests that Starmer and Trump will avoid a press conference because 'we all know what the questions will be'

    Morning all.
    Yep, as i suggested yesterday. He cant affird the questions or allow HMKs guest to be embarrassed by the questions.
    Of course no presser would open its own questions
    The point is Trump always wants to be on the media and he will be asked whether Starmer is standing beside him, or hiding in a fridge
    Bit unfair to blame SKS for Mr Johnson's little strategies.
    Both as bad as each other !!!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,502

    Carnyx said:

    Sir Malcolm Rifkind on Sky suggests that Starmer and Trump will avoid a press conference because 'we all know what the questions will be'

    Morning all.
    Yep, as i suggested yesterday. He cant affird the questions or allow HMKs guest to be embarrassed by the questions.
    Of course no presser would open its own questions
    The point is Trump always wants to be on the media and he will be asked whether Starmer is standing beside him, or hiding in a fridge
    Bit unfair to blame SKS for Mr Johnson's little strategies.
    Both as bad as each other !!!
    Not in that respect, though, so far as I am aware.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,254
    The ugly and foolish diplomacy this Administration showed towards our great ally, Denmark, is costing us money. It should not surprise us.

    https://x.com/RepDonBacon/status/1966971101051056547?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,159

    SKS to be gone by May 2026

    Or sooner if he continues down the austerity Reeves route.

    The reshuffle takes him deeper down that route BTW

    Starmer faces a big test in May and if he loses Scotland and Wales then that will be a real moment of peril
    Labour can't lose Scotland - we were third last time.
    Pretty sure the SCons will lose more seats than SLab. The true disaster (and I'm non-tribal enough to say that would be disastrous not only for SLab) would be Reform coming second. I'm still labouring (geddit!!!!?) under the hope that Sarwar wouldn't cobble together some horrible deal so he could grasp his precious FMship, but who knows.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,756
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Surely Making Plans for Nigel was just a Love Action for Ms Ferrari?

    And now he is Being Boiled over it...

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle musical reference in the headline.
    So subtle that you missed out half the line.
    Fake News!

    Look again.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,291
    Morning all :)

    I've not commented on the tragic murder of Charlie Kirk thus far. I wonder if, like the murder of Martin Luther King Junior in 1968, it will become a long running tale of conspiracy theories and dubious individuals.

    As for Kirk, it is a terrible tragedy for his family and especially his children and that's the fundamental of all this.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,105
    edited 7:41AM

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    Good morning

    It worked for Starmer [ Ming vase] and look where we are now

    To be honest I think Farage will find it difficult to gain a majority, but then if Labour with Starmer continue on the same path then they are putting in a lot of groundwork for Farage to win

    As far as his girlfriend's flat is concerned I doubt he will be found to have done anything wrong though many seem to think this is the 'gotcha'
    Hasn't the groundwork for the Reform surge mostly been done by the Conservative party?
    Good try but the first 15 months of Starmer has turbo charged Farage
    I appreciate that it's upsetting for loyal Conservatives, but that isn't what's happened. There have been two big flows, Con to Ref and Lab to Lib/Green/No vote.

    Labour's fall is due to a bad hand being played badly, sure. But the Reform rise is mostly because the official opposition have not only failed to exploit that, they have lost even more support since 2024 to Farage.
    Something similar happened to boost Miliband’s Labour polling in the early years of the coalition. Voters swung away from the incumbent, but instead of swinging to a mix of Labour and Lib Dem as they had done in the past, the coalition dynamics meant they all parked up in Labour.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,662
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Surely Making Plans for Nigel was just a Love Action for Ms Ferrari?

    And now he is Being Boiled over it...

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle musical reference in the headline.
    So subtle that you missed out half the line.
    "...when I bought a house for you"?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,038
    TimS said:

    It really doesn’t matter.

    Farage could be caught bang to rights evading tax and it wouldn’t matter. We’ve had a decade of Trump as a case study of how this works.

    We should know by now that these people move in a different political context. It’s not about what you do or don’t do, it’s about whom you hate. If the people you hate are the same people your target voters hate, then you’re home and dry.

    It can be a little more than that: if you can convince enough voters to hate the people you hate.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,065
    edited 7:43AM

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Surely Making Plans for Nigel was just a Love Action for Ms Ferrari?

    And now he is Being Boiled over it...

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle musical reference in the headline.
    So subtle that you missed out half the line.
    Fake News!

    Look again.
    Music trivia: the cocktail bar in question in the Human League song was on Glossop Road, Sheffield just by the Hallamshire Hospital. I think it was called Hanrahans.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,502
    edited 7:42AM

    SKS to be gone by May 2026

    Or sooner if he continues down the austerity Reeves route.

    The reshuffle takes him deeper down that route BTW

    Starmer faces a big test in May and if he loses Scotland and Wales then that will be a real moment of peril
    Labour can't lose Scotland - we were third last time.
    Pretty sure the SCons will lose more seats than SLab. The true disaster (and I'm non-tribal enough to say that would be disastrous not only for SLab) would be Reform coming second. I'm still labouring (geddit!!!!?) under the hope that Sarwar wouldn't cobble together some horrible deal so he could grasp his precious FMship, but who knows.
    Mr S would have to eat gey auld and cauld kail - and Mr F would have to backtrack - but as you say, who knows?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yg0g18989o
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/29/nigel-farage-anas-sarwar-obsessed-race-hamilton-byelection
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,967

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    Good morning

    It worked for Starmer [ Ming vase] and look where we are now

    To be honest I think Farage will find it difficult to gain a majority, but then if Labour with Starmer continue on the same path then they are putting in a lot of groundwork for Farage to win

    As far as his girlfriend's flat is concerned I doubt he will be found to have done anything wrong though many seem to think this is the 'gotcha'
    Hasn't the groundwork for the Reform surge mostly been done by the Conservative party?
    Good try but the first 15 months of Starmer has turbo charged Farage
    I appreciate that it's upsetting for loyal Conservatives, but that isn't what's happened. There have been two big flows, Con to Ref and Lab to Lib/Green/No vote.

    Labour's fall is due to a bad hand being played badly, sure. But the Reform rise is mostly because the official opposition have not only failed to exploit that, they have lost even more support since 2024 to Farage.
    HYUFD seemed to endlessly suggest that the refuk vote could be reallocated back to the Tories. I think even he has long dropped that hope. But there is a point - refuk ARE the Tories now going off how many of them have defected and now hold senior positions.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,105
    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Surely Making Plans for Nigel was just a Love Action for Ms Ferrari?

    And now he is Being Boiled over it...

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle musical reference in the headline.
    So subtle that you missed out half the line.
    Fake News!

    Look again.
    Music trivia: the cocktail bar in question was on Glossop Road, Sheffield just by the Hallamshire Hospital. I think it was called Hanrahans.
    Was the manager Jared O’Mara?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,291

    Sir Malcolm Rifkind on Sky suggests that Starmer and Trump will avoid a press conference because 'we all know what the questions will be'

    Morning all.
    Yep, as i suggested yesterday. He cant affird the questions or allow HMKs guest to be embarrassed by the questions.
    Of course no presser would open its own questions
    The point is Trump always wants to be on the media and he will be asked whether Starmer is standing beside him, or hiding in a fridge
    This week has the potential to be hilarious
    I'm not sure the self-inflicted humiliation of a British Prime Minister is all that amusing - I don't recall laughing out loud when it happened to Johnson or Truss but then perhaps my sense of humour isn't yours.

    Politics is theatre as has often been said but comedy isn't easy to get right, it's all in the, er, timing, I'm told.

    Nonetheless, whether we voted for him and are suffering a severe case of buyers' remorse or not, the Prime Minister does, to a degree, represent this country on the world stage and it should be a positive image for the country rather than a source of cheap laughs (probably not all that cheap).
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,105

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    Good morning

    It worked for Starmer [ Ming vase] and look where we are now

    To be honest I think Farage will find it difficult to gain a majority, but then if Labour with Starmer continue on the same path then they are putting in a lot of groundwork for Farage to win

    As far as his girlfriend's flat is concerned I doubt he will be found to have done anything wrong though many seem to think this is the 'gotcha'
    Hasn't the groundwork for the Reform surge mostly been done by the Conservative party?
    Good try but the first 15 months of Starmer has turbo charged Farage
    I appreciate that it's upsetting for loyal Conservatives, but that isn't what's happened. There have been two big flows, Con to Ref and Lab to Lib/Green/No vote.

    Labour's fall is due to a bad hand being played badly, sure. But the Reform rise is mostly because the official opposition have not only failed to exploit that, they have lost even more support since 2024 to Farage.
    HYUFD seemed to endlessly suggest that the refuk vote could be reallocated back to the Tories. I think even he has long dropped that hope. But there is a point - refuk ARE the Tories now going off how many of them have defected and now hold senior positions.
    It’s why, for all its flaws, LLG vs RefCon remains a useful metric.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,038
    Remember, just ten years ago Farage was saying he was poor:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2860098/I-m-not-wealthy-insists-Farage-Ukip-leader-says-poorest-man-politics-despite-earning-79-000-year-having-chauffeur.html

    Like Mandelson, we should be paying a lot of attention as to where he has got his money from.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,159
    Carnyx said:

    SKS to be gone by May 2026

    Or sooner if he continues down the austerity Reeves route.

    The reshuffle takes him deeper down that route BTW

    Starmer faces a big test in May and if he loses Scotland and Wales then that will be a real moment of peril
    Labour can't lose Scotland - we were third last time.
    Pretty sure the SCons will lose more seats than SLab. The true disaster (and I'm non-tribal enough to say that would be disastrous not only for SLab) would be Reform coming second. I'm still labouring (geddit!!!!?) under the hope that Sarwar wouldn't cobble together some horrible deal so he could grasp his precious FMship, but who knows.
    Mr S would have to eat gey auld and cauld kail - and Mr F would have to backtrack - but as you say, who knows?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yg0g18989o
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/29/nigel-farage-anas-sarwar-obsessed-race-hamilton-byelection
    I guess we would have to look at the principled consistency displayed in the careers of both Mr S and Mr F.

    Oh.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,150
    stodge said:

    Sir Malcolm Rifkind on Sky suggests that Starmer and Trump will avoid a press conference because 'we all know what the questions will be'

    Morning all.
    Yep, as i suggested yesterday. He cant affird the questions or allow HMKs guest to be embarrassed by the questions.
    Of course no presser would open its own questions
    The point is Trump always wants to be on the media and he will be asked whether Starmer is standing beside him, or hiding in a fridge
    This week has the potential to be hilarious
    I'm not sure the self-inflicted humiliation of a British Prime Minister is all that amusing - I don't recall laughing out loud when it happened to Johnson or Truss but then perhaps my sense of humour isn't yours.

    Politics is theatre as has often been said but comedy isn't easy to get right, it's all in the, er, timing, I'm told.

    Nonetheless, whether we voted for him and are suffering a severe case of buyers' remorse or not, the Prime Minister does, to a degree, represent this country on the world stage and it should be a positive image for the country rather than a source of cheap laughs (probably not all that cheap).
    As you say, a matter of sense of humour and taste.
    When the country is a joke I find it easy to laugh. Other senses of humour are available.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,883
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    I've no idea and not much more interest but it is entirely possible that she was making her own way when they met in low paid employment but that her parents are loaded and helped her out buying this property. The 2 versions are not necessarily inconsistent.

    My concern is despite all this gotcha nonsense for Farage and Rayner the focus is never on how ridiculous our rules and indeed taxes are on the buying of property. Why on earth should buying a house be a taxable event? How does this help job mobility, younger buyers wanting to have families, investment in the housing stock etc etc? Are we not acting directly against several important public policies? They are stupid taxes and have become ever more so as we try to penalise those with more than one property.

    CGT on the vendor? Both taxes try to claw back some of the capital gain in the housing market boosted by successive, mainly Tory, governments.
    CGT on the vendor makes a lot more sense than what we do right now but it also discourages downsizing, job mobility etc. Almost all taxes have some negative effects but property taxes seem to me to be much more pernicious than most.
    The only tax on real property that makes sense is a land value tax because it encourages efficient use of land. The rest is fiddling.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,065
    Picture of the day: I'm always fascinated by abrupt changes of land use. Here is the point where the encroaching flattification of Manchester reaches the bit we might term 'what inner Manchester used to be like'.

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,857
    Foxy said:

    So what if he gave his girlfriend the money? Provided there is no written agreement that triggers General anti-Avoidance Provisions then she owns the property, paid the appropriate tax and the nature of their relationship is up to them.

    Farage has stated that he did not give her the money.

    So presumably someone else did. Farage wouldn't lie surely?
    “Presumably” is a shoggly peg to hang a full frontal assault on
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,502

    Carnyx said:

    SKS to be gone by May 2026

    Or sooner if he continues down the austerity Reeves route.

    The reshuffle takes him deeper down that route BTW

    Starmer faces a big test in May and if he loses Scotland and Wales then that will be a real moment of peril
    Labour can't lose Scotland - we were third last time.
    Pretty sure the SCons will lose more seats than SLab. The true disaster (and I'm non-tribal enough to say that would be disastrous not only for SLab) would be Reform coming second. I'm still labouring (geddit!!!!?) under the hope that Sarwar wouldn't cobble together some horrible deal so he could grasp his precious FMship, but who knows.
    Mr S would have to eat gey auld and cauld kail - and Mr F would have to backtrack - but as you say, who knows?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yg0g18989o
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/29/nigel-farage-anas-sarwar-obsessed-race-hamilton-byelection
    I guess we would have to look at the principled consistency displayed in the careers of both Mr S and Mr F.

    Oh.
    Indeed.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/reform-uk-support-anas-sarwar-labour-9x579ghlf
    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24760407.nigel-farages-reform-will-back-anas-sarwar-next-first-minister/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,502
    Cookie said:

    Picture of the day: I'm always fascinated by abrupt changes of land use. Here is the point where the encroaching flattification of Manchester reaches the bit we might term 'what inner Manchester used to be like'.

    The hedge, or the trees just in front of the flats?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,828

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    I've no idea and not much more interest but it is entirely possible that she was making her own way when they met in low paid employment but that her parents are loaded and helped her out buying this property. The 2 versions are not necessarily inconsistent.

    My concern is despite all this gotcha nonsense for Farage and Rayner the focus is never on how ridiculous our rules and indeed taxes are on the buying of property. Why on earth should buying a house be a taxable event? How does this help job mobility, younger buyers wanting to have families, investment in the housing stock etc etc? Are we not acting directly against several important public policies? They are stupid taxes and have become ever more so as we try to penalise those with more than one property.

    CGT on the vendor? Both taxes try to claw back some of the capital gain in the housing market boosted by successive, mainly Tory, governments.
    CGT on the vendor makes a lot more sense than what we do right now but it also discourages downsizing, job mobility etc. Almost all taxes have some negative effects but property taxes seem to me to be much more pernicious than most.
    The only tax on real property that makes sense is a land value tax because it encourages efficient use of land. The rest is fiddling.
    I agree in principle and like the effect, but it fails the easy-to-implement test. Last sale price + local HPI is the way IMO.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,254

    Remember, just ten years ago Farage was saying he was poor:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2860098/I-m-not-wealthy-insists-Farage-Ukip-leader-says-poorest-man-politics-despite-earning-79-000-year-having-chauffeur.html

    Like Mandelson, we should be paying a lot of attention as to where he has got his money from.

    Wealth is often relative.

    Spend time with oligarchs and a multi-millionaire might feel poor.

    See Cameron with Greensill and Boris generally as other examples.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,244
    I doubt Farage will be in that much bother provided it turns out his wife did buy the home. If it emerges he bought the home but put it in his wife's name to avoid stamp duty then that could hit him especially with redwall voters
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,883
    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    I've no idea and not much more interest but it is entirely possible that she was making her own way when they met in low paid employment but that her parents are loaded and helped her out buying this property. The 2 versions are not necessarily inconsistent.

    My concern is despite all this gotcha nonsense for Farage and Rayner the focus is never on how ridiculous our rules and indeed taxes are on the buying of property. Why on earth should buying a house be a taxable event? How does this help job mobility, younger buyers wanting to have families, investment in the housing stock etc etc? Are we not acting directly against several important public policies? They are stupid taxes and have become ever more so as we try to penalise those with more than one property.

    CGT on the vendor? Both taxes try to claw back some of the capital gain in the housing market boosted by successive, mainly Tory, governments.
    CGT on the vendor makes a lot more sense than what we do right now but it also discourages downsizing, job mobility etc. Almost all taxes have some negative effects but property taxes seem to me to be much more pernicious than most.
    The only tax on real property that makes sense is a land value tax because it encourages efficient use of land. The rest is fiddling.
    I agree in principle and like the effect, but it fails the easy-to-implement test. Last sale price + local HPI is the way IMO.
    Income tax is not easy to implement but we did it anyway.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,982
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    I've no idea and not much more interest but it is entirely possible that she was making her own way when they met in low paid employment but that her parents are loaded and helped her out buying this property. The 2 versions are not necessarily inconsistent.

    My concern is despite all this gotcha nonsense for Farage and Rayner the focus is never on how ridiculous our rules and indeed taxes are on the buying of property. Why on earth should buying a house be a taxable event? How does this help job mobility, younger buyers wanting to have families, investment in the housing stock etc etc? Are we not acting directly against several important public policies? They are stupid taxes and have become ever more so as we try to penalise those with more than one property.

    CGT on the vendor? Both taxes try to claw back some of the capital gain in the housing market boosted by successive, mainly Tory, governments.
    That would imply there should be an equivalent refund mechanism when people are obliged to sell with negative equity.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,105
    Cookie said:

    Picture of the day: I'm always fascinated by abrupt changes of land use. Here is the point where the encroaching flattification of Manchester reaches the bit we might term 'what inner Manchester used to be like'.

    Remarkable that there are still places remaining that are “what inner Manchester used to be like”. I remember from childhood visits the bizarre (in hindsight) sight of the centre of a huge city filled with empty old warehouses, car parks and weedy waste ground.

    There are still unaccountable pockets of London like that too, mostly along the Thames estuary.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,291
    It's interesting how often politicians who sounded rubbish when they were in office become sensible once they've left Government.

    Lord Gove, who, apparently held several positions in the Conservative administrations from 2010-24 (it's too early), has told the Independent Commission on Community Cohesion (chaired jointly by Sadiq Javid and Jon Cruddas) the Cameron Government was wrong to remove or water down the ASBOs of the Blair Government just to satisfy civil libertarians.

    Once we get past this mea culpa, we then get this piece of wisdom from the former MP for what is now the Liberal Democrat stronghold of Surrey Heath:

    He also emphasised the need for civic participation, but said this would be “very, very difficult for the state or its agencies to encourage”.

    “The more that lads and dads are going to football together. The more that people are going to places of worship and joining in the activities around that, the better overall.

    “But you can’t make people love football, you can’t enforce good parenting, you can’t make people want to take part in a rich civic life if they don’t want to.

    “And there are bigger social trends which are encouraging atomisation so that the 11-year-old who might have been going to watch QPR 20 or 30 years ago is now more likely to be playing Fifa at home.”

    He said the “right mix” of shops on high streets was key to encouraging a sense of community, adding that “people feel that high streets that have, again, vape shops, Turkish barbers, charity shops and voids in particular are a problem”.


    Our politics is a reflection of our life and the way we live and those who marched on the "Unite the Kingdom" protest weren't just a bunch of knuckleheaded racists (undoubtedly there were some) but people desperate to claim or reclaim a sense of identity, of belonging, even of purpose. When you don't recognise the place in which you live and you don't understand the world in which you're living, it's natural to become frustrated and angry.

    You might argue (and I'd have some sympathy) an element of this is romanticised nostalgia much as "back to basics" was 30+ years go but the truth is people need to feel comfortable with the world and their place in it. Rapid technological and socio-economic change has happened before and people have protested against it (often violently) and this is another phase. We can't uninvent mobile phones, the Internet, supermarkets or online gaming any more than we can the internal combustion engine - it's about how people, society and politics adapt to change rather than trying to turn the clock back.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,048

    Is there anything to stop Farage's girlfriend selling the property and walking away with the money ?

    If not then this story is going nowhere.

    This is the bit I don’t understand about this story. If she owns all of the home, whether that money is gifted or not, isn’t that the end of it for tax purposes? (Waiting for someone very clever to correct me, and as always I am not a tax expert yadda yadda).

    Optically, I can see it looks like an unusual arrangement and unusual arrangements always invite questions, though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,880
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    I've no idea and not much more interest but it is entirely possible that she was making her own way when they met in low paid employment but that her parents are loaded and helped her out buying this property. The 2 versions are not necessarily inconsistent.

    My concern is despite all this gotcha nonsense for Farage and Rayner the focus is never on how ridiculous our rules and indeed taxes are on the buying of property. Why on earth should buying a house be a taxable event? How does this help job mobility, younger buyers wanting to have families, investment in the housing stock etc etc? Are we not acting directly against several important public policies? They are stupid taxes and have become ever more so as we try to penalise those with more than one property.

    CGT on the vendor? Both taxes try to claw back some of the capital gain in the housing market boosted by successive, mainly Tory, governments.
    CGT on the vendor makes a lot more sense than what we do right now but it also discourages downsizing, job mobility etc. Almost all taxes have some negative effects but property taxes seem to me to be much more pernicious than most.
    Scrapping stamp duty and replacing it with raised council taxes makes more sense overall, the transaction costs add a huge ambit of friction to the property market, especially at the higher end.

    The political problem with the change is that most people don’t move house very often, and so would just see the CT bill go up.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,828

    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    I've no idea and not much more interest but it is entirely possible that she was making her own way when they met in low paid employment but that her parents are loaded and helped her out buying this property. The 2 versions are not necessarily inconsistent.

    My concern is despite all this gotcha nonsense for Farage and Rayner the focus is never on how ridiculous our rules and indeed taxes are on the buying of property. Why on earth should buying a house be a taxable event? How does this help job mobility, younger buyers wanting to have families, investment in the housing stock etc etc? Are we not acting directly against several important public policies? They are stupid taxes and have become ever more so as we try to penalise those with more than one property.

    CGT on the vendor? Both taxes try to claw back some of the capital gain in the housing market boosted by successive, mainly Tory, governments.
    CGT on the vendor makes a lot more sense than what we do right now but it also discourages downsizing, job mobility etc. Almost all taxes have some negative effects but property taxes seem to me to be much more pernicious than most.
    The only tax on real property that makes sense is a land value tax because it encourages efficient use of land. The rest is fiddling.
    I agree in principle and like the effect, but it fails the easy-to-implement test. Last sale price + local HPI is the way IMO.
    Income tax is not easy to implement but we did it anyway.
    Fair. It would be funny if it was also applied to on-street parking charges - would be about £3k per year in Edinburgh and everyone would lose their minds.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,605
    It’s a strange one alright, but then again who believed Farage over Coutts at first? I bet plenty on here were convinced he was in the wrong
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,244

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    Good morning

    It worked for Starmer [ Ming vase] and look where we are now

    To be honest I think Farage will find it difficult to gain a majority, but then if Labour with Starmer continue on the same path then they are putting in a lot of groundwork for Farage to win

    As far as his girlfriend's flat is concerned I doubt he will be found to have done anything wrong though many seem to think this is the 'gotcha'
    Hasn't the groundwork for the Reform surge mostly been done by the Conservative party?
    Good try but the first 15 months of Starmer has turbo charged Farage
    I appreciate that it's upsetting for loyal Conservatives, but that isn't what's happened. There have been two big flows, Con to Ref and Lab to Lib/Green/No vote.

    Labour's fall is due to a bad hand being played badly, sure. But the Reform rise is mostly because the official opposition have not only failed to exploit that, they have lost even more support since 2024 to Farage.
    HYUFD seemed to endlessly suggest that the refuk vote could be reallocated back to the Tories. I think even he has long dropped that hope. But there is a point - refuk ARE the Tories now going off how many of them have defected and now hold senior positions.
    From the general election to Spring this year almost all the poll movement was Labour to Reform.

    Since the Spring Kemi has lost some of the 2024 Tory vote to Reform and there has also been some movement from Labour to the LDs and Greens
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,188
    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    I've no idea and not much more interest but it is entirely possible that she was making her own way when they met in low paid employment but that her parents are loaded and helped her out buying this property. The 2 versions are not necessarily inconsistent.

    My concern is despite all this gotcha nonsense for Farage and Rayner the focus is never on how ridiculous our rules and indeed taxes are on the buying of property. Why on earth should buying a house be a taxable event? How does this help job mobility, younger buyers wanting to have families, investment in the housing stock etc etc? Are we not acting directly against several important public policies? They are stupid taxes and have become ever more so as we try to penalise those with more than one property.

    CGT on the vendor? Both taxes try to claw back some of the capital gain in the housing market boosted by successive, mainly Tory, governments.
    CGT on the vendor makes a lot more sense than what we do right now but it also discourages downsizing, job mobility etc. Almost all taxes have some negative effects but property taxes seem to me to be much more pernicious than most.
    The only tax on real property that makes sense is a land value tax because it encourages efficient use of land. The rest is fiddling.
    I agree in principle and like the effect, but it fails the easy-to-implement test. Last sale price + local HPI is the way IMO.
    We bought our house in 1976 for £15,000

    It's current market value is circa £500,000 whereas applying inflation only it would be just over £100,000
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,159
    edited 8:03AM
    stodge said:

    It's interesting how often politicians who sounded rubbish when they were in office become sensible once they've left Government.

    Lord Gove, who, apparently held several positions in the Conservative administrations from 2010-24 (it's too early), has told the Independent Commission on Community Cohesion (chaired jointly by Sadiq Javid and Jon Cruddas) the Cameron Government was wrong to remove or water down the ASBOs of the Blair Government just to satisfy civil libertarians.

    Once we get past this mea culpa, we then get this piece of wisdom from the former MP for what is now the Liberal Democrat stronghold of Surrey Heath:

    He also emphasised the need for civic participation, but said this would be “very, very difficult for the state or its agencies to encourage”.

    “The more that lads and dads are going to football together. The more that people are going to places of worship and joining in the activities around that, the better overall.

    “But you can’t make people love football, you can’t enforce good parenting, you can’t make people want to take part in a rich civic life if they don’t want to.

    “And there are bigger social trends which are encouraging atomisation so that the 11-year-old who might have been going to watch QPR 20 or 30 years ago is now more likely to be playing Fifa at home.”

    He said the “right mix” of shops on high streets was key to encouraging a sense of community, adding that “people feel that high streets that have, again, vape shops, Turkish barbers, charity shops and voids in particular are a problem”.


    Our politics is a reflection of our life and the way we live and those who marched on the "Unite the Kingdom" protest weren't just a bunch of knuckleheaded racists (undoubtedly there were some) but people desperate to claim or reclaim a sense of identity, of belonging, even of purpose. When you don't recognise the place in which you live and you don't understand the world in which you're living, it's natural to become frustrated and angry.

    You might argue (and I'd have some sympathy) an element of this is romanticised nostalgia much as "back to basics" was 30+ years go but the truth is people need to feel comfortable with the world and their place in it. Rapid technological and socio-economic change has happened before and people have protested against it (often violently) and this is another phase. We can't uninvent mobile phones, the Internet, supermarkets or online gaming any more than we can the internal combustion engine - it's about how people, society and politics adapt to change rather than trying to turn the clock back.

    Otoh Govey now pumps out shithousery such as the IDF deserves the Nobel peace prize, so swings & roundabouts.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,180

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    Donald Trump has successfully portrayed himself as both fabulously wealthy and as an everyman anti-elite crusader. I'm not certain Farage having a nice house will damage his image.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,105

    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    I've no idea and not much more interest but it is entirely possible that she was making her own way when they met in low paid employment but that her parents are loaded and helped her out buying this property. The 2 versions are not necessarily inconsistent.

    My concern is despite all this gotcha nonsense for Farage and Rayner the focus is never on how ridiculous our rules and indeed taxes are on the buying of property. Why on earth should buying a house be a taxable event? How does this help job mobility, younger buyers wanting to have families, investment in the housing stock etc etc? Are we not acting directly against several important public policies? They are stupid taxes and have become ever more so as we try to penalise those with more than one property.

    CGT on the vendor? Both taxes try to claw back some of the capital gain in the housing market boosted by successive, mainly Tory, governments.
    CGT on the vendor makes a lot more sense than what we do right now but it also discourages downsizing, job mobility etc. Almost all taxes have some negative effects but property taxes seem to me to be much more pernicious than most.
    The only tax on real property that makes sense is a land value tax because it encourages efficient use of land. The rest is fiddling.
    I agree in principle and like the effect, but it fails the easy-to-implement test. Last sale price + local HPI is the way IMO.
    We bought our house in 1976 for £15,000

    It's current market value is circa £500,000 whereas applying inflation only it would be just over £100,000
    You apply it to land value, on a district (not individual property) level.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,180
    stodge said:

    It's interesting how often politicians who sounded rubbish when they were in office become sensible once they've left Government.

    Lord Gove, who, apparently held several positions in the Conservative administrations from 2010-24 (it's too early), has told the Independent Commission on Community Cohesion (chaired jointly by Sadiq Javid and Jon Cruddas) the Cameron Government was wrong to remove or water down the ASBOs of the Blair Government just to satisfy civil libertarians.

    Once we get past this mea culpa, we then get this piece of wisdom from the former MP for what is now the Liberal Democrat stronghold of Surrey Heath:

    He also emphasised the need for civic participation, but said this would be “very, very difficult for the state or its agencies to encourage”.

    “The more that lads and dads are going to football together. The more that people are going to places of worship and joining in the activities around that, the better overall.

    “But you can’t make people love football, you can’t enforce good parenting, you can’t make people want to take part in a rich civic life if they don’t want to.

    “And there are bigger social trends which are encouraging atomisation so that the 11-year-old who might have been going to watch QPR 20 or 30 years ago is now more likely to be playing Fifa at home.”

    He said the “right mix” of shops on high streets was key to encouraging a sense of community, adding that “people feel that high streets that have, again, vape shops, Turkish barbers, charity shops and voids in particular are a problem”.


    Our politics is a reflection of our life and the way we live and those who marched on the "Unite the Kingdom" protest weren't just a bunch of knuckleheaded racists (undoubtedly there were some) but people desperate to claim or reclaim a sense of identity, of belonging, even of purpose. When you don't recognise the place in which you live and you don't understand the world in which you're living, it's natural to become frustrated and angry.

    You might argue (and I'd have some sympathy) an element of this is romanticised nostalgia much as "back to basics" was 30+ years go but the truth is people need to feel comfortable with the world and their place in it. Rapid technological and socio-economic change has happened before and people have protested against it (often violently) and this is another phase. We can't uninvent mobile phones, the Internet, supermarkets or online gaming any more than we can the internal combustion engine - it's about how people, society and politics adapt to change rather than trying to turn the clock back.

    To pick up on a very minor point, I don't think charity shops are a problem. They can be hubs of community volunteering, and they offer cheap goods for those affected by the cost of living.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,150
    edited 8:04AM

    Is there anything to stop Farage's girlfriend selling the property and walking away with the money ?

    If not then this story is going nowhere.

    This is the bit I don’t understand about this story. If she owns all of the home, whether that money is gifted or not, isn’t that the end of it for tax purposes? (Waiting for someone very clever to correct me, and as always I am not a tax expert yadda yadda).

    Optically, I can see it looks like an unusual arrangement and unusual arrangements always invite questions, though.
    If the money was gifted it will depend when and from whom. Anti money laundering checks will have been done and there may of course potential for IHT for 7 years. I believe the gift donor has to declare no interest in the property too.......
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,254
    stodge said:

    It's interesting how often politicians who sounded rubbish when they were in office become sensible once they've left Government.

    Lord Gove, who, apparently held several positions in the Conservative administrations from 2010-24 (it's too early), has told the Independent Commission on Community Cohesion (chaired jointly by Sadiq Javid and Jon Cruddas) the Cameron Government was wrong to remove or water down the ASBOs of the Blair Government just to satisfy civil libertarians.

    Once we get past this mea culpa, we then get this piece of wisdom from the former MP for what is now the Liberal Democrat stronghold of Surrey Heath:

    He also emphasised the need for civic participation, but said this would be “very, very difficult for the state or its agencies to encourage”.

    “The more that lads and dads are going to football together. The more that people are going to places of worship and joining in the activities around that, the better overall.

    “But you can’t make people love football, you can’t enforce good parenting, you can’t make people want to take part in a rich civic life if they don’t want to.

    “And there are bigger social trends which are encouraging atomisation so that the 11-year-old who might have been going to watch QPR 20 or 30 years ago is now more likely to be playing Fifa at home.”

    He said the “right mix” of shops on high streets was key to encouraging a sense of community, adding that “people feel that high streets that have, again, vape shops, Turkish barbers, charity shops and voids in particular are a problem”.


    Our politics is a reflection of our life and the way we live and those who marched on the "Unite the Kingdom" protest weren't just a bunch of knuckleheaded racists (undoubtedly there were some) but people desperate to claim or reclaim a sense of identity, of belonging, even of purpose. When you don't recognise the place in which you live and you don't understand the world in which you're living, it's natural to become frustrated and angry.

    You might argue (and I'd have some sympathy) an element of this is romanticised nostalgia much as "back to basics" was 30+ years go but the truth is people need to feel comfortable with the world and their place in it. Rapid technological and socio-economic change has happened before and people have protested against it (often violently) and this is another phase. We can't uninvent mobile phones, the Internet, supermarkets or online gaming any more than we can the internal combustion engine - it's about how people, society and politics adapt to change rather than trying to turn the clock back.

    PB is an example of that adaption.

    Two or three generations ago our equivalents would perhaps have gone to the pub every evening to see the same dozen people - its still the world shown at the Queen Vic, Woolpack and Rovers Return - now we come here and talk to people from around the country.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,038
    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Picture of the day: I'm always fascinated by abrupt changes of land use. Here is the point where the encroaching flattification of Manchester reaches the bit we might term 'what inner Manchester used to be like'.

    Remarkable that there are still places remaining that are “what inner Manchester used to be like”. I remember from childhood visits the bizarre (in hindsight) sight of the centre of a huge city filled with empty old warehouses, car parks and weedy waste ground.

    There are still unaccountable pockets of London like that too, mostly along the Thames estuary.
    Thirty years ago, there were two covered canal wharfs that I loved the look and atmosphere of: the sort of warehouse that has an awning over the canal so barges can be offloaded in the dry. One was on the Regents Canal at Mile End, and it has now gone. Another was on the Grand Union near the A4 in Brentford, and I fear for that one as well. Deeply atmospheric places, but whose original purpose has long gone.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,180
    HYUFD said:

    I doubt Farage will be in that much bother provided it turns out his wife did buy the home. If it emerges he bought the home but put it in his wife's name to avoid stamp duty then that could hit him especially with redwall voters

    Girlfriend, not wife. They're living in sin, HYUFD.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,982
    edited 8:07AM

    Is there anything to stop Farage's girlfriend selling the property and walking away with the money ?

    If not then this story is going nowhere.

    This is the bit I don’t understand about this story. If she owns all of the home, whether that money is gifted or not, isn’t that the end of it for tax purposes? (Waiting for someone very clever to correct me, and as always I am not a tax expert yadda yadda).

    Optically, I can see it looks like an unusual arrangement and unusual arrangements always invite questions, though.
    If she was gifted the money, wouldn't she be taxed on it as income? (Apologies for using 'she', I don't (e) know the lady's name.)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,188
    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    I've no idea and not much more interest but it is entirely possible that she was making her own way when they met in low paid employment but that her parents are loaded and helped her out buying this property. The 2 versions are not necessarily inconsistent.

    My concern is despite all this gotcha nonsense for Farage and Rayner the focus is never on how ridiculous our rules and indeed taxes are on the buying of property. Why on earth should buying a house be a taxable event? How does this help job mobility, younger buyers wanting to have families, investment in the housing stock etc etc? Are we not acting directly against several important public policies? They are stupid taxes and have become ever more so as we try to penalise those with more than one property.

    CGT on the vendor? Both taxes try to claw back some of the capital gain in the housing market boosted by successive, mainly Tory, governments.
    CGT on the vendor makes a lot more sense than what we do right now but it also discourages downsizing, job mobility etc. Almost all taxes have some negative effects but property taxes seem to me to be much more pernicious than most.
    The only tax on real property that makes sense is a land value tax because it encourages efficient use of land. The rest is fiddling.
    I agree in principle and like the effect, but it fails the easy-to-implement test. Last sale price + local HPI is the way IMO.
    We bought our house in 1976 for £15,000

    It's current market value is circa £500,000 whereas applying inflation only it would be just over £100,000
    You apply it to land value, on a district (not individual property) level.
    That's not my understanding of @Eabhal suggestion
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,150
    AnneJGP said:

    Is there anything to stop Farage's girlfriend selling the property and walking away with the money ?

    If not then this story is going nowhere.

    This is the bit I don’t understand about this story. If she owns all of the home, whether that money is gifted or not, isn’t that the end of it for tax purposes? (Waiting for someone very clever to correct me, and as always I am not a tax expert yadda yadda).

    Optically, I can see it looks like an unusual arrangement and unusual arrangements always invite questions, though.
    If she was gifted the money, wouldn't she be taxed on it as income? (Apologies for using 'she', I Don know the lady's name.)
    Gifts are not taxable income. Potentially IHT liable if the worst happens within 7 years
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,048

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    Donald Trump has successfully portrayed himself as both fabulously wealthy and as an everyman anti-elite crusader. I'm not certain Farage having a nice house will damage his image.
    People know Farage isn’t a working class everyman.

    His gift is that he speaks directly to them in language they get and that lands well, when compared to the stilted politician-speak they get from everyone else.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,159
    AnneJGP said:

    Is there anything to stop Farage's girlfriend selling the property and walking away with the money ?

    If not then this story is going nowhere.

    This is the bit I don’t understand about this story. If she owns all of the home, whether that money is gifted or not, isn’t that the end of it for tax purposes? (Waiting for someone very clever to correct me, and as always I am not a tax expert yadda yadda).

    Optically, I can see it looks like an unusual arrangement and unusual arrangements always invite questions, though.
    If she was gifted the money, wouldn't she be taxed on it as income? (Apologies for using 'she', I Don know the lady's name.)
    Ms Ferrari apparently.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,188
    AnneJGP said:

    Is there anything to stop Farage's girlfriend selling the property and walking away with the money ?

    If not then this story is going nowhere.

    This is the bit I don’t understand about this story. If she owns all of the home, whether that money is gifted or not, isn’t that the end of it for tax purposes? (Waiting for someone very clever to correct me, and as always I am not a tax expert yadda yadda).

    Optically, I can see it looks like an unusual arrangement and unusual arrangements always invite questions, though.
    If she was gifted the money, wouldn't she be taxed on it as income? (Apologies for using 'she', I don't (e) know the lady's name.)
    No - but the person giving the gift could be subject to the 7 year IHT rule

    I expect that to go in Reeves statement in November
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,150

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    Donald Trump has successfully portrayed himself as both fabulously wealthy and as an everyman anti-elite crusader. I'm not certain Farage having a nice house will damage his image.
    People know Farage isn’t a working class everyman.

    His gift is that he speaks directly to them in language they get and that lands well, when compared to the stilted politician-speak they get from everyone else.
    He is a 'he will do for now' figure like Boris and will end up just as hated by a large plurality or majority
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,100
    If she's bought the house, it's hers. Farage obviously a very trusting man ;)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,180
    DavidL said:

    I've no idea and not much more interest but it is entirely possible that she was making her own way when they met in low paid employment but that her parents are loaded and helped her out buying this property. The 2 versions are not necessarily inconsistent.

    My concern is despite all this gotcha nonsense for Farage and Rayner the focus is never on how ridiculous our rules and indeed taxes are on the buying of property. Why on earth should buying a house be a taxable event? How does this help job mobility, younger buyers wanting to have families, investment in the housing stock etc etc? Are we not acting directly against several important public policies? They are stupid taxes and have become ever more so as we try to penalise those with more than one property.

    Her parents do not appear to be loaded: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce845w70g0yo

    The Clacton MP has denied avoiding more than £44,000 in additional stamp duty on the purchase of the constituency home by putting it in his partner Laure Ferrari's name, saying that she bought it with her own funds.

    He suggested that she was able to afford to buy the four-bedroom home, which was bought without a mortgage, because she comes from a wealthy French family.

    However, the BBC has examined French property and company records and has been unable to find evidence that Ferrari's parents have the means to give their daughter a significant contribution towards the purchase of the home.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,883
    edited 8:13AM

    AnneJGP said:

    Is there anything to stop Farage's girlfriend selling the property and walking away with the money ?

    If not then this story is going nowhere.

    This is the bit I don’t understand about this story. If she owns all of the home, whether that money is gifted or not, isn’t that the end of it for tax purposes? (Waiting for someone very clever to correct me, and as always I am not a tax expert yadda yadda).

    Optically, I can see it looks like an unusual arrangement and unusual arrangements always invite questions, though.
    If she was gifted the money, wouldn't she be taxed on it as income? (Apologies for using 'she', I don't (e) know the lady's name.)
    No - but the person giving the gift could be subject to the 7 year IHT rule

    I expect that to go in Reeves statement in November
    Doubt it. It would mean all gifts would be subject to tax, which would be a horrible admin burden. Even sending your friend a fiver by bank transfer for half a pint.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,048

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    Donald Trump has successfully portrayed himself as both fabulously wealthy and as an everyman anti-elite crusader. I'm not certain Farage having a nice house will damage his image.
    People know Farage isn’t a working class everyman.

    His gift is that he speaks directly to them in language they get and that lands well, when compared to the stilted politician-speak they get from everyone else.
    He is a 'he will do for now' figure like Boris and will end up just as hated by a large plurality or majority
    Certainly it remains my view that Farage (if he wins power) is going to be the latest in the long line of disappointments as PM. But it will hit his voters harder because he is the one who is meant to fix everything.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,105
    edited 8:16AM

    stodge said:

    It's interesting how often politicians who sounded rubbish when they were in office become sensible once they've left Government.

    Lord Gove, who, apparently held several positions in the Conservative administrations from 2010-24 (it's too early), has told the Independent Commission on Community Cohesion (chaired jointly by Sadiq Javid and Jon Cruddas) the Cameron Government was wrong to remove or water down the ASBOs of the Blair Government just to satisfy civil libertarians.

    Once we get past this mea culpa, we then get this piece of wisdom from the former MP for what is now the Liberal Democrat stronghold of Surrey Heath:

    He also emphasised the need for civic participation, but said this would be “very, very difficult for the state or its agencies to encourage”.

    “The more that lads and dads are going to football together. The more that people are going to places of worship and joining in the activities around that, the better overall.

    “But you can’t make people love football, you can’t enforce good parenting, you can’t make people want to take part in a rich civic life if they don’t want to.

    “And there are bigger social trends which are encouraging atomisation so that the 11-year-old who might have been going to watch QPR 20 or 30 years ago is now more likely to be playing Fifa at home.”

    He said the “right mix” of shops on high streets was key to encouraging a sense of community, adding that “people feel that high streets that have, again, vape shops, Turkish barbers, charity shops and voids in particular are a problem”.


    Our politics is a reflection of our life and the way we live and those who marched on the "Unite the Kingdom" protest weren't just a bunch of knuckleheaded racists (undoubtedly there were some) but people desperate to claim or reclaim a sense of identity, of belonging, even of purpose. When you don't recognise the place in which you live and you don't understand the world in which you're living, it's natural to become frustrated and angry.

    You might argue (and I'd have some sympathy) an element of this is romanticised nostalgia much as "back to basics" was 30+ years go but the truth is people need to feel comfortable with the world and their place in it. Rapid technological and socio-economic change has happened before and people have protested against it (often violently) and this is another phase. We can't uninvent mobile phones, the Internet, supermarkets or online gaming any more than we can the internal combustion engine - it's about how people, society and politics adapt to change rather than trying to turn the clock back.

    PB is an example of that adaption.

    Two or three generations ago our equivalents would perhaps have gone to the pub every evening to see the same dozen people - its still the world shown at the Queen Vic, Woolpack and Rovers Return - now we come here and talk to people from around the country.
    Gove’s paean is wise sounding, but are the lamentations evidence based? Football crowds are the biggest they’ve ever been, and the turnout at community events seems - it would be interesting to see the stats - to be significantly higher than 30 years ago. Communities now have local WhatsApp groups or Facebook pages that, at a guess, probably increase the number of local people the average resident interacts with each day.

    Swapping anecdote for anecdote, my daughter has way more play dates than I did at that age, and it’s hard to walk down our street without bumping into someone for a chat (though more so for my wife).
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,883

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    Donald Trump has successfully portrayed himself as both fabulously wealthy and as an everyman anti-elite crusader. I'm not certain Farage having a nice house will damage his image.
    People know Farage isn’t a working class everyman.

    His gift is that he speaks directly to them in language they get and that lands well, when compared to the stilted politician-speak they get from everyone else.
    He is a 'he will do for now' figure like Boris and will end up just as hated by a large plurality or majority
    Certainly it remains my view that Farage (if he wins power) is going to be the latest in the long line of disappointments as PM. But it will hit his voters harder because he is the one who is meant to fix everything.
    Brexit was supposed to do that too
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,254

    Is there anything to stop Farage's girlfriend selling the property and walking away with the money ?

    If not then this story is going nowhere.

    This is the bit I don’t understand about this story. If she owns all of the home, whether that money is gifted or not, isn’t that the end of it for tax purposes? (Waiting for someone very clever to correct me, and as always I am not a tax expert yadda yadda).

    Optically, I can see it looks like an unusual arrangement and unusual arrangements always invite questions, though.
    The 'allegation' seems to be that Farage has given the girlfriend the money to buy the house to avoid stamp duty.

    Even if true that would mean the wealth change is:

    Farage -£885k
    Girlfriend +£885k

    So Farage would be risking a £885k financial loss in order to avoid paying £44k in tax.

    Which would be more financial reckless than a Reform manifesto.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,180

    The hard bit for Farage will be keeping up the pretence that he is an everyman anti-elite crusader. Difficult to do when you are part of the elite. If not this then something else - and it may well be policy.

    If the current trend continues and refuk continue to lead, their policy positions will come under scrutiny.

    Policy can win or lose an election, even if people agree with the policies they have to agree with the person saying them. Ask Jeremy Corbyn about this - popular policies until you say whose they are.

    Farage has the inverse problem - the popular guy who will Fix People's Problems. But as we get into actual detail and people start to actually think, how much of this will survive as people have it explained to them in black and white how the Nigel's policies are the exact opposite of what they expect? How voting Reform will make their lives worse, not better?

    I expect "fake news" to be used a lot to try and explain away awkward facts...

    Donald Trump has successfully portrayed himself as both fabulously wealthy and as an everyman anti-elite crusader. I'm not certain Farage having a nice house will damage his image.
    People know Farage isn’t a working class everyman.

    His gift is that he speaks directly to them in language they get and that lands well, when compared to the stilted politician-speak they get from everyone else.
    He is a 'he will do for now' figure like Boris and will end up just as hated by a large plurality or majority
    Certainly it remains my view that Farage (if he wins power) is going to be the latest in the long line of disappointments as PM. But it will hit his voters harder because he is the one who is meant to fix everything.
    Brexit was supposed to do that too
    Reform UK's answer for why Brexit has failed to deliver the promised utopia is that the Tories stabbed the country in the back. They have a narrative for the failure of Brexit.
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