Skip to content

The game’s afoot as Burnham wants to be the new Lord Home – politicalbetting.com

245

Comments

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,224
    edited 9:12AM
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Sound out of sync on Kuensberg this morning. Unwatchable.

    Out of sync? Not as pro-Tory/ Reform as we were expecting/hoping?
    WTF are you going on about, you idiot.

    The sound is not in sync with the speakers mouth movement.
    @Mexicanpete is not very bright clearly.

    He's also a nasty little c*** who was making an ironic joke about the BBC/ Laura's show.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,138
    Listening to the politics programmes this morning It does seem a recognition is emerging that attacking the left and right from a partisan viewpoint does nothing to resolve the division, but rather to acknowledge that there is a real problem and how to start the process of addressing the divisions and calming society and their genuine concerns
  • eekeek Posts: 31,246
    edited 9:12AM

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    AnthonyT said:

    Taz said:

    What state is the Labour Party in when Burnham is seen as its saviour. Do the people supporting him not remember his pitiful run at the leadership previously. A campaign which made Kamala Harris’s for the Democratic nomination seem inspired.

    I think Labour should persist with Starmer, get through the next locals, and Starmer needs to start grooming the next generation and promoting them.

    Exactly. He was in charge of the NHS when the Staffordshire scandal happened. His record on grooming gangs in Manchester is not good either. He got a pitiful number of votes when he last stood and he simply jumps from bandwagon to bandwagon.
    The Mid-Staffs thing has the potential to become a problem. There was a concerted campaign against the whistleblowers and some politicians actually backed this on a “protect the NHS” basis
    I dont think the next Labour leader will be one who served in the Blair and Brown governments. Indeed that is one reason that Corbyn got the gig.

    Burnham can have influence, and has reinvented himself as King of the North, but Labour need and want a fresher face.
    I can't see past Shabana Mahmood as leader if she manages to do anything at all about the boats (which granted is an awkward bar to resolve).
    Possibly. Though she also has to do it in a way that doesn’t upset the selectorate. If, as seems to be the messaging, she is going for the right wing authoritarian firebrand position, in the style of say Blunkett, she might get some results but it won’t endear her to a lot of the people who decide who the next leader is.
    I wonder (well I know but it's politer to say it this way) if the way we allow party members to elect the party leadership and hence our potential PMs is a big part of our problem?

    I mean look at who has been elected, Truss, Corbyn, Swinson.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,057
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    AnthonyT said:

    Taz said:

    What state is the Labour Party in when Burnham is seen as its saviour. Do the people supporting him not remember his pitiful run at the leadership previously. A campaign which made Kamala Harris’s for the Democratic nomination seem inspired.

    I think Labour should persist with Starmer, get through the next locals, and Starmer needs to start grooming the next generation and promoting them.

    Exactly. He was in charge of the NHS when the Staffordshire scandal happened. His record on grooming gangs in Manchester is not good either. He got a pitiful number of votes when he last stood and he simply jumps from bandwagon to bandwagon.
    The Mid-Staffs thing has the potential to become a problem. There was a concerted campaign against the whistleblowers and some politicians actually backed this on a “protect the NHS” basis
    I dont think the next Labour leader will be one who served in the Blair and Brown governments. Indeed that is one reason that Corbyn got the gig.

    Burnham can have influence, and has reinvented himself as King of the North, but Labour need and want a fresher face.
    I can't see past Shabana Mahmood as leader if she manages to do anything at all about the boats (which granted is an awkward bar to resolve).
    Good call but Labour don't do religion and she's an ultra. Definitely better than Burnham.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,650
    edited 9:20AM
    Foxy said:

    stodge said:

    On topic, if the answer is Burnham you asked the wrong question.

    Though, it does show what a shambles labour are in, and in particular Starmer and Reeves performance over the last 15 months
    It speaks to the paucity of talent in British politics. Every party is led by the second rate. Backed by the fifth rate.

    You look at Thatcher’s cabinets - sure, there were one or two clowns. But a good half of them could have been PM.
    Well, it's often said we get the politicians we deserve but I think the quality of political journalism and analysis as presented on all media is disappointing. GB News is unwatchable as is Sky. Most questions are presented as simplistic binary options (which they aren't) and nobody is given time to put forward complex arguments for discussion. Trying to "discuss" immigration in two and a half minutes in an informed and reasoned way is impossible unless your sole argument is "sink the boats" or "deport them all".

    I think the coming of social media and the 24/7 news cycle and the end of any kind of deference have made an enormous and negative impact to the quality (as distinct from the quantity) of our politics.
    What passes for debate now is a series of soundbites and gotchas.

    50 years ago this is how it was done. Two heavyweight politicians listening to each other, not interrupting and civil countering each other's arguments.

    https://youtu.be/CuZrzwm6CJs?si=DUsc53dtVl-Nf0gH
    That was before we imported U.S. infotainment in the 1990's, and then the internet and the online world went on to adopt these values.

    Now we're importing the specifically Fox brand of infotainment-fed culture conflict, which is the next stage along.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,063

    Listening to the politics programmes this morning It does seem a recognition is emerging that attacking the left and right from a partisan viewpoint does nothing to resolve the division, but rather to acknowledge that there is a real problem and how to start the process of addressing the divisions and calming society and their genuine concerns

    Clive Lewis of the Socialist Republic of Norwich I live in wrote a long form tweet about an old school friend of his who attended Unite the etc yesterday and sent him pics. Its unusually thoughtful for Lewis
    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1966988870890963361?s=19
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,138
    Roseana Allin - Khan gives Starmer until May on Kuenssberg

    May 26 is a real danger now not just for Badenoch but also Starmer and the omens are not looking good
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,886
    tlg86 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Just about the only seat Labour might hold in a by-election in Manchester is probably Manchester Central and I can't see Lucy Powell going anywhere.

    Surely he'd win one of the Liverpool seats?
    "Andy Burnham? Who are they???"
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,646

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    AnthonyT said:

    Taz said:

    What state is the Labour Party in when Burnham is seen as its saviour. Do the people supporting him not remember his pitiful run at the leadership previously. A campaign which made Kamala Harris’s for the Democratic nomination seem inspired.

    I think Labour should persist with Starmer, get through the next locals, and Starmer needs to start grooming the next generation and promoting them.

    Exactly. He was in charge of the NHS when the Staffordshire scandal happened. His record on grooming gangs in Manchester is not good either. He got a pitiful number of votes when he last stood and he simply jumps from bandwagon to bandwagon.
    The Mid-Staffs thing has the potential to become a problem. There was a concerted campaign against the whistleblowers and some politicians actually backed this on a “protect the NHS” basis
    I dont think the next Labour leader will be one who served in the Blair and Brown governments. Indeed that is one reason that Corbyn got the gig.

    Burnham can have influence, and has reinvented himself as King of the North, but Labour need and want a fresher face.
    I can't see past Shabana Mahmood as leader if she manages to do anything at all about the boats (which granted is an awkward bar to resolve).
    Possibly. Though she also has to do it in a way that doesn’t upset the selectorate. If, as seems to be the messaging, she is going for the right wing authoritarian firebrand position, in the style of say Blunkett, she might get some results but it won’t endear her to a lot of the people who decide who the next leader is.
    It will if she sorts immigration because Labour will want to win the next election.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,063
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    AnthonyT said:

    Taz said:

    What state is the Labour Party in when Burnham is seen as its saviour. Do the people supporting him not remember his pitiful run at the leadership previously. A campaign which made Kamala Harris’s for the Democratic nomination seem inspired.

    I think Labour should persist with Starmer, get through the next locals, and Starmer needs to start grooming the next generation and promoting them.

    Exactly. He was in charge of the NHS when the Staffordshire scandal happened. His record on grooming gangs in Manchester is not good either. He got a pitiful number of votes when he last stood and he simply jumps from bandwagon to bandwagon.
    The Mid-Staffs thing has the potential to become a problem. There was a concerted campaign against the whistleblowers and some politicians actually backed this on a “protect the NHS” basis
    I dont think the next Labour leader will be one who served in the Blair and Brown governments. Indeed that is one reason that Corbyn got the gig.

    Burnham can have influence, and has reinvented himself as King of the North, but Labour need and want a fresher face.
    I can't see past Shabana Mahmood as leader if she manages to do anything at all about the boats (which granted is an awkward bar to resolve).
    I thought Mahmood was basically Streetings number two behind the scenes last we heard?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,138

    Listening to the politics programmes this morning It does seem a recognition is emerging that attacking the left and right from a partisan viewpoint does nothing to resolve the division, but rather to acknowledge that there is a real problem and how to start the process of addressing the divisions and calming society and their genuine concerns

    Clive Lewis of the Socialist Republic of Norwich I live in wrote a long form tweet about an old school friend of his who attended Unite the etc yesterday and sent him pics. Its unusually thoughtful for Lewis
    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1966988870890963361?s=19
    Very good from Lewis and more need to recognise the genuine concerns of just ordinary voters
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,886

    On Topic.

    The Centrists like Burnham need to let SKS and his Red Tories crash and burn electorally before mounting a challenge. After GE 2029 only gonna need about 10 MP nominations to stand and people like Akehurst, Streeting, Reeves, Cooper will be retired to the Lords

    House of Lords = House of Unelected Has-beens?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,063

    Roseana Allin - Khan gives Starmer until May on Kuenssberg

    May 26 is a real danger now not just for Badenoch but also Starmer and the omens are not looking good

    This week's State nonsense is his first danger point - anything that embarrasses HMK might be very problematic (any Mandys revenge stuff etc). After that, absent any major scandal erupting, conference rebellions or the budget and any rebellion on tax rises or punishment beatings for whatever group might be a flashpoint. Get through those and its easy street until the hammering next May.
    Badenoch needs to get through conference and the budget response with some 'wins' of whatever manufactured nature then start doing major expectation management for May. Properly this time, not exoectation management she then underperformed against like this year.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,785
    eek said:



    Nigelb said:

    French aerospace manufacturing is on a roll.

    Portugal picks French Rafale over America’s F-35 for NATO fleet modernization.
    https://x.com/AlexandruC4/status/1966933040934121841

    India considering a huge Rafale purchase. ‘The defence ministry has begun examining a proposal from the Indian Air Force to procure 114 "Made in India" Rafale fighter jets
    https://x.com/shashj/status/1966953610111021100

    The reasons are likely part political (no one trusts Trump) and partly practical - see our dismal experience with getting any F35 upgrades.

    Ben Wallace’s comments yesterday were interesting
    Ben Wallace is merely explaining why everyone else is looking at the Rafale - the US are no longer trustworthy...
    ...and the UK is locked in to several US procurement programs like the F-35 which turn out to be functionally useless. Arguably our SSBN fleet, supposedly an independent deterrent, is so bound up in the US systems that it could only be used to give the US multi national cover in any nuclear strike. So difficult it is to disentangle, that we have preferred the root of grovelling to Trump rather than actually doing what is now clearly necessary. The state visit this week will be a series of hostage negotiations.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,646

    Listening to the politics programmes this morning It does seem a recognition is emerging that attacking the left and right from a partisan viewpoint does nothing to resolve the division, but rather to acknowledge that there is a real problem and how to start the process of addressing the divisions and calming society and their genuine concerns

    Clive Lewis of the Socialist Republic of Norwich I live in wrote a long form tweet about an old school friend of his who attended Unite the etc yesterday and sent him pics. Its unusually thoughtful for Lewis
    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1966988870890963361?s=19
    Very good from Lewis and more need to recognise the genuine concerns of just ordinary voters
    That’s a good example of a thoughtful, considered post. That’s what we are missing from people like Clive Lewis who usually only issue soundbites. Considered and well argued posts are why I always enjoy @Cyclefree’s headers. Soundbites started with Blair. He’s got a lot to answer for.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,361
    I've been pom-pom waving for Bridget Phillipson to be the next Labour leader for a while now*, and I see no reason to change my position.

    *But nowhere near as long as my #Priti4Leader campaign.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,097
    Not sure the first para is correct - I think any MP can engineer a by-election by resigning their position ?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,690

    Listening to the politics programmes this morning It does seem a recognition is emerging that attacking the left and right from a partisan viewpoint does nothing to resolve the division, but rather to acknowledge that there is a real problem and how to start the process of addressing the divisions and calming society and their genuine concerns

    Clive Lewis of the Socialist Republic of Norwich I live in wrote a long form tweet about an old school friend of his who attended Unite the etc yesterday and sent him pics. Its unusually thoughtful for Lewis
    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1966988870890963361?s=19
    Very good from Lewis and more need to recognise the genuine concerns of just ordinary voters
    Yes, I know he gets attacked for 'really' being a socialist, but he (nearly) always comes across as being thoughtful. Too many politicians, in both Labour and Conservative come across as taking the view that 'they' know the facts and the ordinary voter is ignorant.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,690

    Listening to the politics programmes this morning It does seem a recognition is emerging that attacking the left and right from a partisan viewpoint does nothing to resolve the division, but rather to acknowledge that there is a real problem and how to start the process of addressing the divisions and calming society and their genuine concerns

    Clive Lewis of the Socialist Republic of Norwich I live in wrote a long form tweet about an old school friend of his who attended Unite the etc yesterday and sent him pics. Its unusually thoughtful for Lewis
    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1966988870890963361?s=19
    Very good from Lewis and more need to recognise the genuine concerns of just ordinary voters
    That’s a good example of a thoughtful, considered post. That’s what we are missing from people like Clive Lewis who usually only issue soundbites. Considered and well argued posts are why I always enjoy @Cyclefree’s headers. Soundbites started with Blair. He’s got a lot to answer for.
    Are soundbites not given because soundbites are wanted by interviewers?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,057
    Listening to the hand wringing this morning is unbearable. There wasn't a right wing commentator who didn't think appointing Mandy was a masterstroke .....who better to get a deal with an unscrupulous charlatan than one of our own......' Nod nod wink wink' ........

    The only ones I remember being sickened were the Corbynites... who surprise surpise are not well represented on the BBC (or PB) this morning....

    Pass the sickbag Maude.....
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,849
    eek said:



    Nigelb said:

    French aerospace manufacturing is on a roll.

    Portugal picks French Rafale over America’s F-35 for NATO fleet modernization.
    https://x.com/AlexandruC4/status/1966933040934121841

    India considering a huge Rafale purchase. ‘The defence ministry has begun examining a proposal from the Indian Air Force to procure 114 "Made in India" Rafale fighter jets
    https://x.com/shashj/status/1966953610111021100

    The reasons are likely part political (no one trusts Trump) and partly practical - see our dismal experience with getting any F35 upgrades.

    Ben Wallace’s comments yesterday were interesting
    Ben Wallace is merely explaining why everyone else is looking at the Rafale - the US are no longer trustworthy...
    Not quite - he said that when he threatened to stop buying F35s they accelerated the integration. It’s simply a question of commercial prioritisation for Lockheed. I’d imagine that the contracts have so many loopholes that you can’t force them to a given timeline.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,361

    Listening to the politics programmes this morning It does seem a recognition is emerging that attacking the left and right from a partisan viewpoint does nothing to resolve the division, but rather to acknowledge that there is a real problem and how to start the process of addressing the divisions and calming society and their genuine concerns

    Clive Lewis of the Socialist Republic of Norwich I live in wrote a long form tweet about an old school friend of his who attended Unite the etc yesterday and sent him pics. Its unusually thoughtful for Lewis
    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1966988870890963361?s=19
    Very good from Lewis and more need to recognise the genuine concerns of just ordinary voters
    That’s a good example of a thoughtful, considered post. That’s what we are missing from people like Clive Lewis who usually only issue soundbites. Considered and well argued posts are why I always enjoy @Cyclefree’s headers. Soundbites started with Blair. He’s got a lot to answer for.
    Are soundbites not given because soundbites are wanted by interviewers?
    Soundbites are to politics what catch phrases are to comedy.

    The only bits we remember.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,138
    Roger said:

    Listening to the hand wringing this morning is unbearable. There wasn't a right wing commentator who didn't think appointing Mandy was a masterstroke .....who better to get a deal with an unscrupulous charlatan than one of our own......' Nod nod wink wink' ........

    The only ones I remember being sickened were the Corbynites... who surprise surpise are not well represented on the BBC (or PB) this morning....

    Pass the sickbag Maude.....

    You do know Rosena Alin-Khan was on Kuenssberg this morning and said Mandelson should not have been appointed and gave Starmer to next May

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,151

    algarkirk said:

    From the Observer today on yesterday's Robinson/Musk demo:

    Religion was a recurring theme among the speakers and performers, with the first words said on the PA system praising “the king of kings, lord of lords, Jesus Christ”.



    The Met said officers had been “assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were thrown”.

    They are also going after the King.

    Is it just me or do you think the KING should have paid some sort of tribute to Charlie Kirk and his life.

    https://x.com/benonwine/status/1966766424942154075
    The leftie trans guy (as confirmed on here by Leon last evening) couldn't have imagined the level of martyrdom he would inadvertently bestow on Kirk once the trigger was pulled.
    Has anything Leon has said about events proved to be correct?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,063
    Starmer is tweeting achievements this morning again. Never a good sign
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,774

    Listening to the politics programmes this morning It does seem a recognition is emerging that attacking the left and right from a partisan viewpoint does nothing to resolve the division, but rather to acknowledge that there is a real problem and how to start the process of addressing the divisions and calming society and their genuine concerns

    Clive Lewis of the Socialist Republic of Norwich I live in wrote a long form tweet about an old school friend of his who attended Unite the etc yesterday and sent him pics. Its unusually thoughtful for Lewis
    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1966988870890963361?s=19
    Very good from Lewis and more need to recognise the genuine concerns of just ordinary voters
    It highlights how difficult the problem is, and how deeply rooted it is.

    Without getting too nostalgic, programmes like the BBC’s Generation Game once pulled in millions every Saturday night, giving us something we could all talk about on Monday morning. Now we watch Netflix, Disney+, Prime, or Paramount, alone, in algorithmic silos.

    Football used to be affordable and rooted in community; now it’s millionaires playing for the profitability of billionaires. The NHS, the post office, the railways - all chipped away, run down, sold off or centralised, leaving people feeling powerless and disconnected.


    We have an atomised media because we wanted that. Having 4 TV channels and one local radio station on each city was probably better for society, but good luck selling that to the public.

    All the bits of society that have been chipped away or flogged off... Where do you think Thatcher, Major and Blair got the money to cut taxes with?

    The people most vocally angry with the state of the nation are my generation and the one above. But we consistently voted for this, even if we didn't realise it at the time.

    If we seek our memorial, look around. Any attempts to fix that need to start with that recognition.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,138

    Starmer is tweeting achievements this morning again. Never a good sign

    Starmer's nightmare this week will be standing beside Trump at a press conference when all the press questions will be about Mandelson and Epstein

    I have no idea how this plays out but it is potentially explosive
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,592

    Nigelb said:

    French aerospace manufacturing is on a roll.

    Portugal picks French Rafale over America’s F-35 for NATO fleet modernization.
    https://x.com/AlexandruC4/status/1966933040934121841

    India considering a huge Rafale purchase. ‘The defence ministry has begun examining a proposal from the Indian Air Force to procure 114 "Made in India" Rafale fighter jets
    https://x.com/shashj/status/1966953610111021100

    The reasons are likely part political (no one trusts Trump) and partly practical - see our dismal experience with getting any F35 upgrades.

    Ben Wallace’s comments yesterday were interesting
    What were his comments?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,063

    Starmer is tweeting achievements this morning again. Never a good sign

    Starmer's nightmare this week will be standing beside Trump at a press conference when all the press questions will be about Mandelson and Epstein

    I have no idea how this plays out but it is potentially explosive
    They arent going to allow questions i'll bet
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,141
    Roger said:

    Listening to the hand wringing this morning is unbearable. There wasn't a right wing commentator who didn't think appointing Mandy was a masterstroke .....who better to get a deal with an unscrupulous charlatan than one of our own......' Nod nod wink wink' ........

    The only ones I remember being sickened were the Corbynites... who surprise surpise are not well represented on the BBC (or PB) this morning....

    Pass the sickbag Maude.....

    I read on Twitter that Mandy was Trevor Phillips’ best man.
    The incestuous relationship between pols & the media goes some way to explaining the crapness of both.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,057

    Roger said:

    Listening to the hand wringing this morning is unbearable. There wasn't a right wing commentator who didn't think appointing Mandy was a masterstroke .....who better to get a deal with an unscrupulous charlatan than one of our own......' Nod nod wink wink' ........

    The only ones I remember being sickened were the Corbynites... who surprise surpise are not well represented on the BBC (or PB) this morning....

    Pass the sickbag Maude.....

    You do know Rosena Alin-Khan was on Kuenssberg this morning and said Mandelson should not have been appointed and gave Starmer to next May

    They're all coming out of the woodwork NOW. Where were they when Starmer/Mandelson was getting these supercharged deals which were the envy of the EU? What about the gloating Brexiteers? Every dick at the telegraph can be wise after the event. Even some MPs passed over for promotion.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,138

    Starmer is tweeting achievements this morning again. Never a good sign

    Starmer's nightmare this week will be standing beside Trump at a press conference when all the press questions will be about Mandelson and Epstein

    I have no idea how this plays out but it is potentially explosive
    They arent going to allow questions i'll bet
    At some point Trump is going to be asked about Mandelson and Epstein

    The press pack know there is a huge 'gotcha' on offer
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,138
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Listening to the hand wringing this morning is unbearable. There wasn't a right wing commentator who didn't think appointing Mandy was a masterstroke .....who better to get a deal with an unscrupulous charlatan than one of our own......' Nod nod wink wink' ........

    The only ones I remember being sickened were the Corbynites... who surprise surpise are not well represented on the BBC (or PB) this morning....

    Pass the sickbag Maude.....

    You do know Rosena Alin-Khan was on Kuenssberg this morning and said Mandelson should not have been appointed and gave Starmer to next May

    They're all coming out of the woodwork NOW. Where were they when Starmer/Mandelson was getting these supercharged deals which were the envy of the EU? What about the gloating Brexiteers? Every dick at the telegraph can be wise after the event. Even some MPs passed over for promotion.
    You are not taking this very well are you ?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,185
    @theobertram

    The last time Labour changed leader in office was Blair to Brown. That transition lasted years. Labour is not the Tory party. There is no equivalent to sending letters to the 1922 committee.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,138
    Scott_xP said:

    @theobertram

    The last time Labour changed leader in office was Blair to Brown. That transition lasted years. Labour is not the Tory party. There is no equivalent to sending letters to the 1922 committee.

    Starmer's moment of peril will be May 26

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,883
    Scott_xP said:

    @theobertram

    The last time Labour changed leader in office was Blair to Brown. That transition lasted years. Labour is not the Tory party. There is no equivalent to sending letters to the 1922 committee.

    “The last time Labour changed leader in office” is written to suggest there was been other recent occasions where they have been in office….
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,141
    boulay said:

    Cicero said:

    Listening to the politics programmes this morning It does seem a recognition is emerging that attacking the left and right from a partisan viewpoint does nothing to resolve the division, but rather to acknowledge that there is a real problem and how to start the process of addressing the divisions and calming society and their genuine concerns

    Clive Lewis of the Socialist Republic of Norwich I live in wrote a long form tweet about an old school friend of his who attended Unite the etc yesterday and sent him pics. Its unusually thoughtful for Lewis
    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1966988870890963361?s=19
    Very good from Lewis and more need to recognise the genuine concerns of just ordinary voters
    That’s a good example of a thoughtful, considered post. That’s what we are missing from people like Clive Lewis who usually only issue soundbites. Considered and well argued posts are why I always enjoy @Cyclefree’s headers. Soundbites started with Blair. He’s got a lot to answer for.
    Are soundbites not given because soundbites are wanted by interviewers?
    When I first started being a TV talking head on subjects I knew about, one could expect two forms- a roughly 8 minute gig and a roughly two minute gig. Now the length of the average interview is measured in seconds, repeated three times an hour. The assumption being that the attention span of the punters is roughly the same as a gnat. The media blame the politicians for dumbing down, but "journalists" have become empty suits looking for the simplest lines in the shortest time.
    It gets very frustrating when listening to an interview with a politician or similar on an important issue on the Today programme where the interviewer (apart from the gotcha hunt etc) hurries them saying they are limited for time and then during the programme they spend the same time or longer on some utter balls like Taylor Swift’s engagement - indeed when that happened they played the whole of one of her songs for 3 plus minutes at the end of the programme - all time that could have been used for deeper interviews.

    There are plenty of stations, channels and socials for discussing Taylor Swift and other lightweight issues but when what is supposed to be the preeminent news programme on the radio for politics and current affairs can’t be bothered to spend time on interviews then we are doomed.

    The media is just not serious anymore.
    The balls about Bohemian Rhapsody at the Proms is an example, R4 news has been wittering on about it all weekend and I bet Today won’t resist a post mortem tomorrow.

    It’s a pop song whipped up into a kitsch middlebrow confection, not an epochal cultural event.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,769
    stodge said:

    On topic, if the answer is Burnham you asked the wrong question.

    Though, it does show what a shambles labour are in, and in particular Starmer and Reeves performance over the last 15 months
    It speaks to the paucity of talent in British politics. Every party is led by the second rate. Backed by the fifth rate.

    You look at Thatcher’s cabinets - sure, there were one or two clowns. But a good half of them could have been PM.
    Well, it's often said we get the politicians we deserve but I think the quality of political journalism and analysis as presented on all media is disappointing. GB News is unwatchable as is Sky. Most questions are presented as simplistic binary options (which they aren't) and nobody is given time to put forward complex arguments for discussion. Trying to "discuss" immigration in two and a half minutes in an informed and reasoned way is impossible unless your sole argument is "sink the boats" or "deport them all".

    I think the coming of social media and the 24/7 news cycle and the end of any kind of deference have made an enormous and negative impact to the quality (as distinct from the quantity) of our politics.
    The counterpoint to this is it turns out there's an audience for really long politics podcasts. In the US it's mainly been Rogan, Lex Fridman, people like that. They tend not to do very hostile questions but they do talk about issues and give you a chance to hear an issue discussed in depth.

    Politicians who are used to the soundbyte culture are scared of going on these because it'll create a lot of material and then the opposition will pick out the worst part and blast it across all the shallower channels. But with the actual listeners it seems to kind of inoculate them, because the people who listen feel like they know the candidate and they won't believe an attack that doesn't match what they heard.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,646

    Listening to the politics programmes this morning It does seem a recognition is emerging that attacking the left and right from a partisan viewpoint does nothing to resolve the division, but rather to acknowledge that there is a real problem and how to start the process of addressing the divisions and calming society and their genuine concerns

    Clive Lewis of the Socialist Republic of Norwich I live in wrote a long form tweet about an old school friend of his who attended Unite the etc yesterday and sent him pics. Its unusually thoughtful for Lewis
    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1966988870890963361?s=19
    Very good from Lewis and more need to recognise the genuine concerns of just ordinary voters
    That’s a good example of a thoughtful, considered post. That’s what we are missing from people like Clive Lewis who usually only issue soundbites. Considered and well argued posts are why I always enjoy @Cyclefree’s headers. Soundbites started with Blair. He’s got a lot to answer for.
    Are soundbites not given because soundbites are wanted by interviewers?
    That doesn’t mean that interviewees should just give the interviewers their soundbites. If the interviewer can’t cope with a discussion, and can only look for gotchas, they shouldn’t be in the job. Robin Day must be turning in his grave.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,185
    @dolphinsands

    Like Tyler Robinson, Musk experiences the world as a gamer, normalising AI-generated violence, cut off from consequence. Underground for days, this man creeps through dark Hamas-like tunnels. Normal rules don't apply. The question is: how do we protect ourselves?

    https://x.com/dolphinsands/status/1967165590424170969
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,336
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,457
    edited 10:01AM
    Pulpstar said:

    Not sure the first para is correct - I think any MP can engineer a by-election by resigning their position ?

    Actually, formally an MP cannot resign their seat. Hence they get themselves disqualified instead by accepting an office of profit under the Crown (Steward and Bailiff of the Chiltern Hundreds or Manor of Northstead - Mike Amesbury and Scott Benton at present, which gives confidence that the Chiltern Hundreds and Manor of Northstead are in safe hands).

    More relevantly, I don't think the point being made was that MPs can't decide to leave Parliament, causing a by-election. I think it was that electoral volatility means they cannot predict the result.

    I have to say, I don't really agree with that anyway in this case. Burnham is a pretty popular mayor, and there are plenty of Remain-leaning constituencies in his area with large Labour majorities which tend to be rather unfavourable for RefUK, where Tories are unpopular, and Lib Dems just aren't a factor. I mean, RefUK only just won in heavily Leave-leaning Runcorn and, whilst polls have moved their way since, there are quite a few places where Burnham would win comfortably.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,650
    edited 10:06AM
    Cicero said:

    Listening to the politics programmes this morning It does seem a recognition is emerging that attacking the left and right from a partisan viewpoint does nothing to resolve the division, but rather to acknowledge that there is a real problem and how to start the process of addressing the divisions and calming society and their genuine concerns

    Clive Lewis of the Socialist Republic of Norwich I live in wrote a long form tweet about an old school friend of his who attended Unite the etc yesterday and sent him pics. Its unusually thoughtful for Lewis
    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1966988870890963361?s=19
    Very good from Lewis and more need to recognise the genuine concerns of just ordinary voters
    That’s a good example of a thoughtful, considered post. That’s what we are missing from people like Clive Lewis who usually only issue soundbites. Considered and well argued posts are why I always enjoy @Cyclefree’s headers. Soundbites started with Blair. He’s got a lot to answer for.
    Are soundbites not given because soundbites are wanted by interviewers?
    When I first started being a TV talking head on subjects I knew about, one could expect two forms- a roughly 8 minute gig and a roughly two minute gig. Now the length of the average interview is measured in seconds, repeated three times an hour. The assumption being that the attention span of the punters is roughly the same as a gnat. The media blame the politicians for dumbing down, but "journalists" have become empty suits looking for the simplest lines in the shortest time.
    Documentaries are much the same ; the underlying assumption is of a short attention span, which again dates to the 1990's.

    On one level the 1990's were a halcyon period compared to today, but on another level many of our issues today, of the commercialisation and de-intellectualisation of public culture, were just beginning to get quietly get underway in the background.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,592
    ...
    Roger said:

    Listening to the hand wringing this morning is unbearable. There wasn't a right wing commentator who didn't think appointing Mandy was a masterstroke .....who better to get a deal with an unscrupulous charlatan than one of our own......' Nod nod wink wink' ........

    The only ones I remember being sickened were the Corbynites... who surprise surpise are not well represented on the BBC (or PB) this morning....

    Pass the sickbag Maude.....

    You want former Horsham MP Francis Maude to pass you a sick bag?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,753

    Starmer is tweeting achievements this morning again. Never a good sign

    Starmer's nightmare this week will be standing beside Trump at a press conference when all the press questions will be about Mandelson and Epstein

    I have no idea how this plays out but it is potentially explosive
    What is potentially explosive is any correspondence between Epstein and Prince Andrew that the Americans are holding back until after the state visit. (Or it might just be mildly embarrassing but since the President will be guest of the King, why take the chance?)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,592
    edited 10:07AM

    Cicero said:

    Listening to the politics programmes this morning It does seem a recognition is emerging that attacking the left and right from a partisan viewpoint does nothing to resolve the division, but rather to acknowledge that there is a real problem and how to start the process of addressing the divisions and calming society and their genuine concerns

    Clive Lewis of the Socialist Republic of Norwich I live in wrote a long form tweet about an old school friend of his who attended Unite the etc yesterday and sent him pics. Its unusually thoughtful for Lewis
    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1966988870890963361?s=19
    Very good from Lewis and more need to recognise the genuine concerns of just ordinary voters
    That’s a good example of a thoughtful, considered post. That’s what we are missing from people like Clive Lewis who usually only issue soundbites. Considered and well argued posts are why I always enjoy @Cyclefree’s headers. Soundbites started with Blair. He’s got a lot to answer for.
    Are soundbites not given because soundbites are wanted by interviewers?
    When I first started being a TV talking head on subjects I knew about, one could expect two forms- a roughly 8 minute gig and a roughly two minute gig. Now the length of the average interview is measured in seconds, repeated three times an hour. The assumption being that the attention span of the punters is roughly the same as a gnat. The media blame the politicians for dumbing down, but "journalists" have become empty suits looking for the simplest lines in the shortest time.
    Documentaries are much the same ; the underlying assumption is of a short attention span, which again dates to the 1990's.

    On one level the 1990's were a halcyon period compared to today, but on another level many of our issues today, of the commercialisation and de-intellectualisation of public culture, were just beginning to get underway in the background.
    Yet look at the huge popularity of podcasts. Perhaps they should just rename these programmes podcasts, and they could go in-depth again.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,633

    ...

    Roger said:

    Listening to the hand wringing this morning is unbearable. There wasn't a right wing commentator who didn't think appointing Mandy was a masterstroke .....who better to get a deal with an unscrupulous charlatan than one of our own......' Nod nod wink wink' ........

    The only ones I remember being sickened were the Corbynites... who surprise surpise are not well represented on the BBC (or PB) this morning....

    Pass the sickbag Maude.....

    You want former Horsham MP Francis Maude to pass you a sick bag?
    I don't know, but I think we should be told
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,034

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Sound out of sync on Kuensberg this morning. Unwatchable.

    Out of sync? Not as pro-Tory/ Reform as we were expecting/hoping?
    WTF are you going on about, you idiot.

    The sound is not in sync with the speakers mouth movement.
    @Mexicanpete is not very bright clearly.

    He's also a nasty little c*** who was making an ironic joke about the BBC/ Laura's show.
    Jokes tend to be funny, or at least amusing. Your comment was neither,
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,753
    OT 3 minutes on stolen cars being shipped abroad. I am mildly suspicious that some of the Economist's figures seem to have been cherry-picked from different sources but that is by the by.

    Every four minutes a car is stolen in Britain—but where do they end up? We tracked the new global black market in stolen vehicles.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mBiZVObBPC8
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,057

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    Excellent question. Are we going to get a Party to the right of Farage? The Yaxley-Lennons? There would then be three parties swimming in the same fetid tank. Nothing much keeping them apart except for the ambitions of their leaders.

  • TresTres Posts: 3,054
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Sound out of sync on Kuensberg this morning. Unwatchable.

    Out of sync? Not as pro-Tory/ Reform as we were expecting/hoping?
    WTF are you going on about, you idiot.

    The sound is not in sync with the speakers mouth movement.
    @Mexicanpete is not very bright clearly.

    He's also a nasty little c*** who was making an ironic joke about the BBC/ Laura's show.
    Jokes tend to be funny, or at least amusing. Your comment was neither,
    did a lib dem piss in your cornflakes this morning?
  • derekderek Posts: 4
    I don’t necessarily think there is a seat in the country that labour would win at the moment the Tory’s would not contest vit would be a dangerous strategy to call an unnecessary by election on top of which burnam is hugely overated
  • derekderek Posts: 4
    Who actually cares
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,295

    boulay said:

    Cicero said:

    Listening to the politics programmes this morning It does seem a recognition is emerging that attacking the left and right from a partisan viewpoint does nothing to resolve the division, but rather to acknowledge that there is a real problem and how to start the process of addressing the divisions and calming society and their genuine concerns

    Clive Lewis of the Socialist Republic of Norwich I live in wrote a long form tweet about an old school friend of his who attended Unite the etc yesterday and sent him pics. Its unusually thoughtful for Lewis
    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1966988870890963361?s=19
    Very good from Lewis and more need to recognise the genuine concerns of just ordinary voters
    That’s a good example of a thoughtful, considered post. That’s what we are missing from people like Clive Lewis who usually only issue soundbites. Considered and well argued posts are why I always enjoy @Cyclefree’s headers. Soundbites started with Blair. He’s got a lot to answer for.
    Are soundbites not given because soundbites are wanted by interviewers?
    When I first started being a TV talking head on subjects I knew about, one could expect two forms- a roughly 8 minute gig and a roughly two minute gig. Now the length of the average interview is measured in seconds, repeated three times an hour. The assumption being that the attention span of the punters is roughly the same as a gnat. The media blame the politicians for dumbing down, but "journalists" have become empty suits looking for the simplest lines in the shortest time.
    It gets very frustrating when listening to an interview with a politician or similar on an important issue on the Today programme where the interviewer (apart from the gotcha hunt etc) hurries them saying they are limited for time and then during the programme they spend the same time or longer on some utter balls like Taylor Swift’s engagement - indeed when that happened they played the whole of one of her songs for 3 plus minutes at the end of the programme - all time that could have been used for deeper interviews.

    There are plenty of stations, channels and socials for discussing Taylor Swift and other lightweight issues but when what is supposed to be the preeminent news programme on the radio for politics and current affairs can’t be bothered to spend time on interviews then we are doomed.

    The media is just not serious anymore.
    The balls about Bohemian Rhapsody at the Proms is an example, R4 news has been wittering on about it all weekend and I bet Today won’t resist a post mortem tomorrow.

    It’s a pop song whipped up into a kitsch middlebrow confection, not an epochal cultural event.
    They could improve Today 100% overnight by banning music/stories about music - there are millions of other BBC music stations which cover that.

    They could ban pushing books written by, oh look, another BBC presenter - it shouldn’t be ok that a BBC person has a flight of fancy, writes a book and gets the whole of the bbc helping them push it, not fair on other writers who might be every bit as good or better but don’t get the publicity.

    They could stop this nonsense that crept in and now is all the time “we want to hear from you about this” followed by a week of very boring people recording their views on their favourite Pooh sticks bridge or whatever. Leave that to Radio 5 and light entertainment on tv.

    The sport bulletin should be about sport - results and fixtures not pushing agendas, now they have fucked up football focus they can stick it all in there.

    More long form interviews with politicians (but not by Robinson as he can’t help interrupting) and fewer discussions where they have the opposing sides on at same time as you just get a garbled argument with a presenter also trying to jump in. There was one last week where the lady from the TUC was constantly interrupting the other side and it was a complete waste of air time and nothing could be learnt.

    A few simple fixes for improved informing of the public.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,246
    derek said:

    I don’t necessarily think there is a seat in the country that labour would win at the moment the Tory’s would not contest vit would be a dangerous strategy to call an unnecessary by election on top of which burnam is hugely overated

    Why wouldn't the Tories contest - it's a no win situation for them (as they would likely end up in 3/4th place) but its politically better to stand than to give up.

    And Reform are only doing well in some sorts of seats - there are plenty of seats in wealthier North West constituencies where Reform at best would be second with no chance of winning.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,063
    Roger said:

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    Excellent question. Are we going to get a Party to the right of Farage? The Yaxley-Lennons? There would then be three parties swimming in the same fetid tank. Nothing much keeping them apart except for the ambitions of their leaders.

    Robinson has already given his backing to Advance UK. Habib spoke at yesterday's rally
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,771
    Good morning everyone.

    I'd be far happier if Lee Anderson would give up his seat for Mr Burnham. I can dream, can't I?

    The hopes for civilisation in Ashfield are either Labour, Lib Dems (if they come back if Zadrozny gets sent down in 2027), or Greens. I don't see the Conservatives having much hope for a generation.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,063
    eek said:

    derek said:

    I don’t necessarily think there is a seat in the country that labour would win at the moment the Tory’s would not contest vit would be a dangerous strategy to call an unnecessary by election on top of which burnam is hugely overated

    Why wouldn't the Tories contest - it's a no win situation for them (as they would likely end up in 3/4th place) but its politically better to stand than to give up.

    And Reform are only doing well in some sorts of seats - there are plenty of seats in wealthier North West constituencies where Reform at best would be second with no chance of winning.
    I guess if the reason for standing down was very clearly not health related and a naked Burnham vehicle the Tories could refuse to stand in 'a waste of taxpayers money' like LDs and Lab in Haltemprice and Howden when DD flounced, whilst enjoying the obvious Labour civil war
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,753

    Scott_xP said:

    @theobertram

    The last time Labour changed leader in office was Blair to Brown. That transition lasted years. Labour is not the Tory party. There is no equivalent to sending letters to the 1922 committee.

    Starmer's moment of peril will be May 26

    Presumably you mean the local elections in May, 2026, or is there some event planned for the 26th of May?

    I still expect Starmer to follow Harold Wilson and retire early. What concerns me is the supposed plots might make him want to hang on in order to make it clear he is going on his own terms.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,170
    Pulpstar said:

    Not sure the first para is correct - I think any MP can engineer a by-election by resigning their position ?

    Could the PM refuse to appoint an MP to the stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,295

    Scott_xP said:

    @theobertram

    The last time Labour changed leader in office was Blair to Brown. That transition lasted years. Labour is not the Tory party. There is no equivalent to sending letters to the 1922 committee.

    Starmer's moment of peril will be May 26

    Presumably you mean the local elections in May, 2026, or is there some event planned for the 26th of May?

    I still expect Starmer to follow Harold Wilson and retire early. What concerns me is the supposed plots might make him want to hang on in order to make it clear he is going on his own terms.
    I think he would also be very keen to ensure he is PM longer than Rishi as it would be utterly humiliating for him if he lasted for less time after the pompous and arrogant attacks on Sunak and his government.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,633

    ...

    Roger said:

    Listening to the hand wringing this morning is unbearable. There wasn't a right wing commentator who didn't think appointing Mandy was a masterstroke .....who better to get a deal with an unscrupulous charlatan than one of our own......' Nod nod wink wink' ........

    The only ones I remember being sickened were the Corbynites... who surprise surpise are not well represented on the BBC (or PB) this morning....

    Pass the sickbag Maude.....

    You want former Horsham MP Francis Maude to pass you a sick bag?
    I don't know, but I think we should be told
    Sir John Junor, editor of the Express for over thirty years was known for his catchphrases, including:

    "Pass the sick-bag, Alice"

    and

    "I don't know, but I think we should be told"

    Don't know if Rog had this in mind, or who Maude (or Alice) might be..

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Junor
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,771
    Roger said:

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    Excellent question. Are we going to get a Party to the right of Farage? The Yaxley-Lennons? There would then be three parties swimming in the same fetid tank. Nothing much keeping them apart except for the ambitions of their leaders.
    That's a very pertinent question. I think yes, but it would fall to pieces over money or personalities.

    We already have a party or 28 to the right of Farage. AFAICS, the most significant was and perhaps is the Homeland Party (who are more or less the drivers of the Epping 'protests'). They were a splinter group off Patriotic Alternative who absorbed much of the white supremacist/nationalist niche. The last reported membership figures I saw for them (Times Radio) was 1,300 (quoted in wiki).

    But they split a couple of months ago.

    My call is that Farage is trying to domesticate such movements, and they perhaps dream of taking over Reform.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,138
    edited 10:31AM

    Scott_xP said:

    @theobertram

    The last time Labour changed leader in office was Blair to Brown. That transition lasted years. Labour is not the Tory party. There is no equivalent to sending letters to the 1922 committee.

    Starmer's moment of peril will be May 26

    Presumably you mean the local elections in May, 2026, or is there some event planned for the 26th of May?

    I still expect Starmer to follow Harold Wilson and retire early. What concerns me is the supposed plots might make him want to hang on in order to make it clear he is going on his own terms.
    I mean Holyrood and the Senedd which are looking ominous for Starmer, especially Wales where Welsh Labour has just distanced itself from Starmer in what is most likely to be a last ditch attempt to save a humiliation

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq6574mqm5eo
  • eekeek Posts: 31,246

    Pulpstar said:

    Not sure the first para is correct - I think any MP can engineer a by-election by resigning their position ?

    Could the PM refuse to appoint an MP to the stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds?
    nope - and the role is appointed to by the Chancellor not the PM anyway..
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,063

    Pulpstar said:

    Not sure the first para is correct - I think any MP can engineer a by-election by resigning their position ?

    Could the PM refuse to appoint an MP to the stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds?
    No, because the Chancellor appoints them!
    The Chancellor could refuse in theory but that probably breaks the system
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,769
    On a potential by-election, other Labour members can chime in here but if I lived in a seat where my Labour MP had resigned so that another candidate without a particularly distinguished record could run against the incumbent Prime Minister, I would not vote for that candidate.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,057

    Roger said:

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    Excellent question. Are we going to get a Party to the right of Farage? The Yaxley-Lennons? There would then be three parties swimming in the same fetid tank. Nothing much keeping them apart except for the ambitions of their leaders.

    Robinson has already given his backing to Advance UK. Habib spoke at yesterday's rally
    You've got to be on your toes to follow the shenanigans of the far right......,

    What a time to rejoin the EU. If only we had a Labour leader with a little bit of backbone we could say goodbye to Trump and Mandy and steer a course back to civilisation
  • eekeek Posts: 31,246
    edited 10:32AM

    On a potential by-election, other Labour members can chime in here but if I lived in a seat where my Labour MP had resigned so that another candidate without a particularly distinguished record could run against the incumbent Prime Minister, I would not vote for that candidate.

    It wouldn't be presented as that - but it does open the question as to what job can an MP resign to take that wouldn't look like an attempt to do such that - some UN / NATO / Ambassador to the US feels like the only suitable options. That are clear cut obvious illness...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,063

    On a potential by-election, other Labour members can chime in here but if I lived in a seat where my Labour MP had resigned so that another candidate without a particularly distinguished record could run against the incumbent Prime Minister, I would not vote for that candidate.

    The electorate tend to dislike stitch ups
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,344

    boulay said:

    Cicero said:

    Listening to the politics programmes this morning It does seem a recognition is emerging that attacking the left and right from a partisan viewpoint does nothing to resolve the division, but rather to acknowledge that there is a real problem and how to start the process of addressing the divisions and calming society and their genuine concerns

    Clive Lewis of the Socialist Republic of Norwich I live in wrote a long form tweet about an old school friend of his who attended Unite the etc yesterday and sent him pics. Its unusually thoughtful for Lewis
    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1966988870890963361?s=19
    Very good from Lewis and more need to recognise the genuine concerns of just ordinary voters
    That’s a good example of a thoughtful, considered post. That’s what we are missing from people like Clive Lewis who usually only issue soundbites. Considered and well argued posts are why I always enjoy @Cyclefree’s headers. Soundbites started with Blair. He’s got a lot to answer for.
    Are soundbites not given because soundbites are wanted by interviewers?
    When I first started being a TV talking head on subjects I knew about, one could expect two forms- a roughly 8 minute gig and a roughly two minute gig. Now the length of the average interview is measured in seconds, repeated three times an hour. The assumption being that the attention span of the punters is roughly the same as a gnat. The media blame the politicians for dumbing down, but "journalists" have become empty suits looking for the simplest lines in the shortest time.
    It gets very frustrating when listening to an interview with a politician or similar on an important issue on the Today programme where the interviewer (apart from the gotcha hunt etc) hurries them saying they are limited for time and then during the programme they spend the same time or longer on some utter balls like Taylor Swift’s engagement - indeed when that happened they played the whole of one of her songs for 3 plus minutes at the end of the programme - all time that could have been used for deeper interviews.

    There are plenty of stations, channels and socials for discussing Taylor Swift and other lightweight issues but when what is supposed to be the preeminent news programme on the radio for politics and current affairs can’t be bothered to spend time on interviews then we are doomed.

    The media is just not serious anymore.
    The balls about Bohemian Rhapsody at the Proms is an example, R4 news has been wittering on about it all weekend and I bet Today won’t resist a post mortem tomorrow.

    It’s a pop song whipped up into a kitsch middlebrow confection, not an epochal cultural event.
    Though the proms themselves are still a magnificent cultural event, the last night has always been dreadful. It’s a shame that the traditional performance of Beethoven 9 on the penultimate night no longer happens - as that was always a fitting conclusion to the real proms.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,295
    From the Sunday Times, very Private Eye cover.


  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,769
    If Burnham did engineer a vacancy, would the NEC have the power to go, "ok cool, all-women shortlist"?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,887

    eek said:



    Nigelb said:

    French aerospace manufacturing is on a roll.

    Portugal picks French Rafale over America’s F-35 for NATO fleet modernization.
    https://x.com/AlexandruC4/status/1966933040934121841

    India considering a huge Rafale purchase. ‘The defence ministry has begun examining a proposal from the Indian Air Force to procure 114 "Made in India" Rafale fighter jets
    https://x.com/shashj/status/1966953610111021100

    The reasons are likely part political (no one trusts Trump) and partly practical - see our dismal experience with getting any F35 upgrades.

    Ben Wallace’s comments yesterday were interesting
    Ben Wallace is merely explaining why everyone else is looking at the Rafale - the US are no longer trustworthy...
    Not quite - he said that when he threatened to stop buying F35s they accelerated the integration. It’s simply a question of commercial prioritisation for Lockheed. I’d imagine that the contracts have so many loopholes that you can’t force them to a given timeline.
    You have to play the same game with the domestic companies.

    When Big & Expensive had finished fucking up maratime Nimrod, and we bought the P-8, there was the question of weapons.

    Marconi (IIRC) quoted several hundred million to adopt Stingray (UK torpedo) - not to actually *do* the adaption, you understand. Just design and test it.

    They were very discombobulated when the Minister at the time said that they would rent American torpedos for the first few years. With the subtext - “… and you come back with a price that is sane. For adding a slightly larger parachute and doing 3 drop tests.”
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,239

    boulay said:

    Cicero said:

    Listening to the politics programmes this morning It does seem a recognition is emerging that attacking the left and right from a partisan viewpoint does nothing to resolve the division, but rather to acknowledge that there is a real problem and how to start the process of addressing the divisions and calming society and their genuine concerns

    Clive Lewis of the Socialist Republic of Norwich I live in wrote a long form tweet about an old school friend of his who attended Unite the etc yesterday and sent him pics. Its unusually thoughtful for Lewis
    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1966988870890963361?s=19
    Very good from Lewis and more need to recognise the genuine concerns of just ordinary voters
    That’s a good example of a thoughtful, considered post. That’s what we are missing from people like Clive Lewis who usually only issue soundbites. Considered and well argued posts are why I always enjoy @Cyclefree’s headers. Soundbites started with Blair. He’s got a lot to answer for.
    Are soundbites not given because soundbites are wanted by interviewers?
    When I first started being a TV talking head on subjects I knew about, one could expect two forms- a roughly 8 minute gig and a roughly two minute gig. Now the length of the average interview is measured in seconds, repeated three times an hour. The assumption being that the attention span of the punters is roughly the same as a gnat. The media blame the politicians for dumbing down, but "journalists" have become empty suits looking for the simplest lines in the shortest time.
    It gets very frustrating when listening to an interview with a politician or similar on an important issue on the Today programme where the interviewer (apart from the gotcha hunt etc) hurries them saying they are limited for time and then during the programme they spend the same time or longer on some utter balls like Taylor Swift’s engagement - indeed when that happened they played the whole of one of her songs for 3 plus minutes at the end of the programme - all time that could have been used for deeper interviews.

    There are plenty of stations, channels and socials for discussing Taylor Swift and other lightweight issues but when what is supposed to be the preeminent news programme on the radio for politics and current affairs can’t be bothered to spend time on interviews then we are doomed.

    The media is just not serious anymore.
    The balls about Bohemian Rhapsody at the Proms is an example, R4 news has been wittering on about it all weekend and I bet Today won’t resist a post mortem tomorrow.

    It’s a pop song whipped up into a kitsch middlebrow confection, not an epochal cultural event.
    Though the proms themselves are still a magnificent cultural event, the last night has always been dreadful. It’s a shame that the traditional performance of Beethoven 9 on the penultimate night no longer happens - as that was always a fitting conclusion to the real proms.
    Katie Derham presenting is one big cringe

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,063

    If Burnham did engineer a vacancy, would the NEC have the power to go, "ok cool, all-women shortlist"?

    Yes
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,633

    If Burnham did engineer a vacancy, would the NEC have the power to go, "ok cool, all-women shortlist"?

    Is there anything stopping Andrea Burnham from running?

    Mascara Ma'am
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,646
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    Excellent question. Are we going to get a Party to the right of Farage? The Yaxley-Lennons? There would then be three parties swimming in the same fetid tank. Nothing much keeping them apart except for the ambitions of their leaders.

    Robinson has already given his backing to Advance UK. Habib spoke at yesterday's rally
    You've got to be on your toes to follow the shenanigans of the far right......,

    What a time to rejoin the EU. If only we had a Labour leader with a little bit of backbone we could say goodbye to Trump and Mandy and steer a course back to civilisation
    Sadly, I think that would lead to violent civil war.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,084
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    Excellent question. Are we going to get a Party to the right of Farage? The Yaxley-Lennons? There would then be three parties swimming in the same fetid tank. Nothing much keeping them apart except for the ambitions of their leaders.

    Robinson has already given his backing to Advance UK. Habib spoke at yesterday's rally
    You've got to be on your toes to follow the shenanigans of the far right......,

    What a time to rejoin the EU. If only we had a Labour leader with a little bit of backbone we could say goodbye to Trump and Mandy and steer a course back to civilisation
    Accidentally being in a political union with Orban and Le Pen is one thing; deliberately joining one quite another.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,138

    On a potential by-election, other Labour members can chime in here but if I lived in a seat where my Labour MP had resigned so that another candidate without a particularly distinguished record could run against the incumbent Prime Minister, I would not vote for that candidate.

    The key you are missing is Burnham's popularity in Greater Manchester and he is a voice from the north furious with the treatment of northen labour mps and especially Lucy Powell

    Maybe it is time to realise that those in the north are unimpressed with the London political class and media, and want their voice heard

    I do not see Burnham as PM, but I do see him causing considerable problems and yes, there are seats in Greater Manchester he would win comfortably
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,224
    ...
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Sound out of sync on Kuensberg this morning. Unwatchable.

    Out of sync? Not as pro-Tory/ Reform as we were expecting/hoping?
    WTF are you going on about, you idiot.

    The sound is not in sync with the speakers mouth movement.
    @Mexicanpete is not very bright clearly.

    He's also a nasty little c*** who was making an ironic joke about the BBC/ Laura's show.
    Jokes tend to be funny, or at least amusing. Your comment was neither,
    Flag the bastard Taz!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,884
    MattW said:

    Roger said:

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    Excellent question. Are we going to get a Party to the right of Farage? The Yaxley-Lennons? There would then be three parties swimming in the same fetid tank. Nothing much keeping them apart except for the ambitions of their leaders.
    That's a very pertinent question. I think yes, but it would fall to pieces over money or personalities.

    We already have a party or 28 to the right of Farage. AFAICS, the most significant was and perhaps is the Homeland Party (who are more or less the drivers of the Epping 'protests'). They were a splinter group off Patriotic Alternative who absorbed much of the white supremacist/nationalist niche. The last reported membership figures I saw for them (Times Radio) was 1,300 (quoted in wiki).

    But they split a couple of months ago.

    My call is that Farage is trying to domesticate such movements, and they perhaps dream of taking over Reform.
    I think Farage is trying to maintain the same kind of relationship with the thuggish far right as Ian Paisley had with the UVF etc. Formally distancing himself while stoking grievances and hoping to harvest their supporters' votes. Seems to be working for him so far.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,344
    edited 10:44AM

    If Burnham did engineer a vacancy, would the NEC have the power to go, "ok cool, all-women shortlist"?

    Knowing Burnham, he’d self-identify as a woman.

    I see Blanche got there first - and rather more elegantly.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,063
    Starmer could always push through the Rayner plan to disqualify sitting elected mayors from standing for parliament
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,887

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    Excellent question. Are we going to get a Party to the right of Farage? The Yaxley-Lennons? There would then be three parties swimming in the same fetid tank. Nothing much keeping them apart except for the ambitions of their leaders.

    Robinson has already given his backing to Advance UK. Habib spoke at yesterday's rally
    You've got to be on your toes to follow the shenanigans of the far right......,

    What a time to rejoin the EU. If only we had a Labour leader with a little bit of backbone we could say goodbye to Trump and Mandy and steer a course back to civilisation
    Sadly, I think that would lead to violent civil war.
    Having a far right party on 25%+ in the polls is convergence with Europe - Italy, France, Germany. To name but a few.

    Civilisation, eh?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,141

    MattW said:

    Roger said:

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    Excellent question. Are we going to get a Party to the right of Farage? The Yaxley-Lennons? There would then be three parties swimming in the same fetid tank. Nothing much keeping them apart except for the ambitions of their leaders.
    That's a very pertinent question. I think yes, but it would fall to pieces over money or personalities.

    We already have a party or 28 to the right of Farage. AFAICS, the most significant was and perhaps is the Homeland Party (who are more or less the drivers of the Epping 'protests'). They were a splinter group off Patriotic Alternative who absorbed much of the white supremacist/nationalist niche. The last reported membership figures I saw for them (Times Radio) was 1,300 (quoted in wiki).

    But they split a couple of months ago.

    My call is that Farage is trying to domesticate such movements, and they perhaps dream of taking over Reform.
    I think Farage is trying to maintain the same kind of relationship with the thuggish far right as Ian Paisley had with the UVF etc. Formally distancing himself while stoking grievances and hoping to harvest their supporters' votes. Seems to be working for him so far.
    The von Papen gambit.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,246
    edited 10:47AM

    MattW said:

    Roger said:

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    Excellent question. Are we going to get a Party to the right of Farage? The Yaxley-Lennons? There would then be three parties swimming in the same fetid tank. Nothing much keeping them apart except for the ambitions of their leaders.
    That's a very pertinent question. I think yes, but it would fall to pieces over money or personalities.

    We already have a party or 28 to the right of Farage. AFAICS, the most significant was and perhaps is the Homeland Party (who are more or less the drivers of the Epping 'protests'). They were a splinter group off Patriotic Alternative who absorbed much of the white supremacist/nationalist niche. The last reported membership figures I saw for them (Times Radio) was 1,300 (quoted in wiki).

    But they split a couple of months ago.

    My call is that Farage is trying to domesticate such movements, and they perhaps dream of taking over Reform.
    I think Farage is trying to maintain the same kind of relationship with the thuggish far right as Ian Paisley had with the UVF etc. Formally distancing himself while stoking grievances and hoping to harvest their supporters' votes. Seems to be working for him so far.
    Farage has little to lose by doing that - it's not like the other right wing parties are going to stand candidates in all constituencies - so he knows that most people that end up supporting those right wing groups will, if they go into the booth, vote for him..
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,887

    MattW said:

    Roger said:

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    Excellent question. Are we going to get a Party to the right of Farage? The Yaxley-Lennons? There would then be three parties swimming in the same fetid tank. Nothing much keeping them apart except for the ambitions of their leaders.
    That's a very pertinent question. I think yes, but it would fall to pieces over money or personalities.

    We already have a party or 28 to the right of Farage. AFAICS, the most significant was and perhaps is the Homeland Party (who are more or less the drivers of the Epping 'protests'). They were a splinter group off Patriotic Alternative who absorbed much of the white supremacist/nationalist niche. The last reported membership figures I saw for them (Times Radio) was 1,300 (quoted in wiki).

    But they split a couple of months ago.

    My call is that Farage is trying to domesticate such movements, and they perhaps dream of taking over Reform.
    I think Farage is trying to maintain the same kind of relationship with the thuggish far right as Ian Paisley had with the UVF etc. Formally distancing himself while stoking grievances and hoping to harvest their supporters' votes. Seems to be working for him so far.
    Also his structuring the party as a vehicle he literally owns - all about controlling how far to the right it goes.
  • ManchesterKurtManchesterKurt Posts: 934

    Starmer could always push through the Rayner plan to disqualify sitting elected mayors from standing for parliament

    I am happy to be corrected, but don't think Manchester Mayor can be an MP.

    Something to do with him being a joint mayor and police commissioner in one, unlike other mayors.

    But I may be totally wrong.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,774

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    Excellent question. Are we going to get a Party to the right of Farage? The Yaxley-Lennons? There would then be three parties swimming in the same fetid tank. Nothing much keeping them apart except for the ambitions of their leaders.

    Robinson has already given his backing to Advance UK. Habib spoke at yesterday's rally
    You've got to be on your toes to follow the shenanigans of the far right......,

    What a time to rejoin the EU. If only we had a Labour leader with a little bit of backbone we could say goodbye to Trump and Mandy and steer a course back to civilisation
    Sadly, I think that would lead to violent civil war.
    Having a far right party on 25%+ in the polls is convergence with Europe - Italy, France, Germany. To name but a few.

    Civilisation, eh?
    Hard to blame the failure of Starmer, or any other individual politician, for that then. (And that includes those on the civilised right who I think should have taken a much firmer line.)

    So, apart from the population bulge reaching the "grumpy old men" stage of life, and all the bills from the last few decades now turning red, what's causing it? And what can be done about it?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,887

    MattW said:

    Roger said:

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    Excellent question. Are we going to get a Party to the right of Farage? The Yaxley-Lennons? There would then be three parties swimming in the same fetid tank. Nothing much keeping them apart except for the ambitions of their leaders.
    That's a very pertinent question. I think yes, but it would fall to pieces over money or personalities.

    We already have a party or 28 to the right of Farage. AFAICS, the most significant was and perhaps is the Homeland Party (who are more or less the drivers of the Epping 'protests'). They were a splinter group off Patriotic Alternative who absorbed much of the white supremacist/nationalist niche. The last reported membership figures I saw for them (Times Radio) was 1,300 (quoted in wiki).

    But they split a couple of months ago.

    My call is that Farage is trying to domesticate such movements, and they perhaps dream of taking over Reform.
    I think Farage is trying to maintain the same kind of relationship with the thuggish far right as Ian Paisley had with the UVF etc. Formally distancing himself while stoking grievances and hoping to harvest their supporters' votes. Seems to be working for him so far.
    The von Papen gambit.
    Von Papen was trying to play politics with no actual power. Strangely, the person with the actual votes and mass party membership ended up running the relationship.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,063

    Starmer could always push through the Rayner plan to disqualify sitting elected mayors from standing for parliament

    I am happy to be corrected, but don't think Manchester Mayor can be an MP.

    Something to do with him being a joint mayor and police commissioner in one, unlike other mayors.

    But I may be totally wrong.
    He'd have to resign as Mayor if he won, yes.
    Rayners plan was to prevent mayors even standing during their term
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,753
    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @theobertram

    The last time Labour changed leader in office was Blair to Brown. That transition lasted years. Labour is not the Tory party. There is no equivalent to sending letters to the 1922 committee.

    Starmer's moment of peril will be May 26

    Presumably you mean the local elections in May, 2026, or is there some event planned for the 26th of May?

    I still expect Starmer to follow Harold Wilson and retire early. What concerns me is the supposed plots might make him want to hang on in order to make it clear he is going on his own terms.
    I think he would also be very keen to ensure he is PM longer than Rishi as it would be utterly humiliating for him if he lasted for less time after the pompous and arrogant attacks on Sunak and his government.
    I really doubt Starmer cares about that sort of numerology. I can't see Rishi losing sleep over it either.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,887

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    Excellent question. Are we going to get a Party to the right of Farage? The Yaxley-Lennons? There would then be three parties swimming in the same fetid tank. Nothing much keeping them apart except for the ambitions of their leaders.

    Robinson has already given his backing to Advance UK. Habib spoke at yesterday's rally
    You've got to be on your toes to follow the shenanigans of the far right......,

    What a time to rejoin the EU. If only we had a Labour leader with a little bit of backbone we could say goodbye to Trump and Mandy and steer a course back to civilisation
    Sadly, I think that would lead to violent civil war.
    Having a far right party on 25%+ in the polls is convergence with Europe - Italy, France, Germany. To name but a few.

    Civilisation, eh?
    Hard to blame the failure of Starmer, or any other individual politician, for that then. (And that includes those on the civilised right who I think should have taken a much firmer line.)

    So, apart from the population bulge reaching the "grumpy old men" stage of life, and all the bills from the last few decades now turning red, what's causing it? And what can be done about it?
    I would actually blame both Conservatives and Labour.

    The continent was a warning sign that the politics of “ignore the voters, the nasty scum, because we have monopoly of power” ends up in a bad place.

    Our politicians assumed that tribalism and FPTP would protect them.

    Now we are looking at Reform as the biggest party at the next election.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,138

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Isn’t the real question of the weekend how will befriender of poor/rich waitresses Farage accommodate the new populist movement sweeping the kingdom (southern half); share or shaft?

    Excellent question. Are we going to get a Party to the right of Farage? The Yaxley-Lennons? There would then be three parties swimming in the same fetid tank. Nothing much keeping them apart except for the ambitions of their leaders.

    Robinson has already given his backing to Advance UK. Habib spoke at yesterday's rally
    You've got to be on your toes to follow the shenanigans of the far right......,

    What a time to rejoin the EU. If only we had a Labour leader with a little bit of backbone we could say goodbye to Trump and Mandy and steer a course back to civilisation
    Sadly, I think that would lead to violent civil war.
    Having a far right party on 25%+ in the polls is convergence with Europe - Italy, France, Germany. To name but a few.

    Civilisation, eh?
    I want to say this gently to @Roger but the EU he longs for of 2016 is no more

    It has enormous problems involving tens of billions of sudden and unexpected investments in defence, still buys energy from Russia, is witnessing the rise of the far right, is experiencing serious trading issues with the US, and as for @Roger beloved France, what a mess they are in

    I did vote remain, but am very pleased we are not tied into the EU but that doesn't mean we cannot have a sensible trading and defence relationship
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,151

    stodge said:

    On topic, if the answer is Burnham you asked the wrong question.

    Though, it does show what a shambles labour are in, and in particular Starmer and Reeves performance over the last 15 months
    It speaks to the paucity of talent in British politics. Every party is led by the second rate. Backed by the fifth rate.

    You look at Thatcher’s cabinets - sure, there were one or two clowns. But a good half of them could have been PM.
    Well, it's often said we get the politicians we deserve but I think the quality of political journalism and analysis as presented on all media is disappointing. GB News is unwatchable as is Sky. Most questions are presented as simplistic binary options (which they aren't) and nobody is given time to put forward complex arguments for discussion. Trying to "discuss" immigration in two and a half minutes in an informed and reasoned way is impossible unless your sole argument is "sink the boats" or "deport them all".

    I think the coming of social media and the 24/7 news cycle and the end of any kind of deference have made an enormous and negative impact to the quality (as distinct from the quantity) of our politics.
    The counterpoint to this is it turns out there's an audience for really long politics podcasts. In the US it's mainly been Rogan, Lex Fridman, people like that. They tend not to do very hostile questions but they do talk about issues and give you a chance to hear an issue discussed in depth.

    Politicians who are used to the soundbyte culture are scared of going on these because it'll create a lot of material and then the opposition will pick out the worst part and blast it across all the shallower channels. But with the actual listeners it seems to kind of inoculate them, because the people who listen feel like they know the candidate and they won't believe an attack that doesn't match what they heard.
    Calling Rogan a political interviewer is like calling my cat a chef because he sometimes likes to take a bite of wet food and then a bite of dry food and then another bite of wet food. Sure, you can hear an issue discussed in depth, but the issue might be an entirey made up culture war confection. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,246

    Starmer could always push through the Rayner plan to disqualify sitting elected mayors from standing for parliament

    I am happy to be corrected, but don't think Manchester Mayor can be an MP.

    Something to do with him being a joint mayor and police commissioner in one, unlike other mayors.

    But I may be totally wrong.
    He'd have to resign as Mayor if he won, yes.
    Rayners plan was to prevent mayors even standing during their term
    Got to ask what the purpose of that would be - if the consequence of being an MP is that you need to resign and you thought the seat was winnable enough you would resign anyway.
Sign In or Register to comment.