He is indeed a muppet of the first water. Is this really the best we can do?
Didn't you opt to sit on your hands in the election? Now you're complaining that Labour aren't up to the job. Sorry David this next 4 years of failure is on you and the other million Tory voters who sat on their hands and watched while Labour got handed a gigantic majority for a tiny number of votes. People like Leon bear some of the responsibility too for getting caught up in that idiotic attitude of "oh the Tories must be punished" without thinking about the consequences of that and voting for Labour knowing how much damage they would inflict on the nation.
I went out and campaigned, had doors shut in my face, got shouted at, sworn at and tried to make sure it wasn't a complete disaster because we all knew what Labour would do with untrammeled power and so it has happened.
I gave Starmer the benefit of the doubt. I honestly and sincerely had absolutely no idea he would be THIS terrible. Who did? Maybe @Casino_Royale
Do I regret my vote? Not really. Inasmuch as I voted with the info available to me. I couldn’t vote Tory because of the last 14 years. Obvs. I was tempted to go reform but then Farage made those weird pro Putin noises at exactly the wrong moment. I despise the Lib Dems
So I thought Why not. He might be surprisingly competent. If anyone can reform the NHS it’s Labour - Tories too scared etc
Oh well
I think it was me, CR and HYFUD warning the rest of you on the centre right not to listen to the mob baying for Tory blood because of Liz Truss and Boris Johnson. If Rishi had taken over two years earlier between him and Hunt the country would have been in a much better place today and I don't think the party would have been wiped out. It was Rishi that turned off the immigration tap, it was Rishi that pushed for the Rwanda scheme and faced off against the liberal wanky judges, it was Rishi that put a halt to the chagos islands surrender. You judged the Tories on the basis of what Boris and Liz Truss did, which is fair, but ultimately they were gone and there's no doubt that Rishi was a better PM than Starmer and Hunt a better Chancellor than Reeves.
I think you and a couple of million soft centre right voters got caught up in the media nonsense about "punishing" the Tories and forgot that the resulting Labour government would be worse in all aspects, especially on immigration and stopping the boats.
The Tories deserve to go extinct for the Boriswave. Not just lose an election. They need to die out completely. What they did is unforgivable
I want them replaced by reform ASAP and it seems a large chunk of the country agrees with me
How can they ever come back from what they did?
How many of the Boriswave were refugees from Ukraine and from Hong Kong?
Some. Not most. From GOV.UK:
Ukrainians and BN(O) [Hong Kong] accounted for 8% of non-EU immigration in YE June 2023. An estimated 80,000 people arrived long-term on these visas, of which 47,000 were BN(O) and 33,000 were Ukrainians.
The highest number of long-term arrivals on the BN(O) scheme were seen in the YE June 2022 (57,000). Those arriving long-term on Ukraine Schemes peaked in the YE December 2022 (109,000). Long-term arrivals from Ukraine have declined and long-term arrivals from BN(O) are now a bigger proportion of Humanitarian route immigration in the YE June 2023.
Is it though? How easy it it for him to be removed? A Tory PM you could see falling over this, but Labour? A year after a crushing (if fluky) election win?
I wouldn’t be backing a 2025 exit.
Few people are. It's 10/1 against.
Best price on oddschecker is 7/1
And 2026 best price is 2/1
2026 is most likely timing. Also for Kemi. After the May local elections.
I was in central London during the demonstration and counter-demonstration. Not for either - I hadn't even heard about them beforehand. I was showing a South American friend around town, and we kept sort of intersecting their routes between Parliament Square and St Paul's.
Main subjective and probably completely unrepresentative impressions:
- the Unite lot were much more numerous than the Counters - the Counters were mostly what George Orwell would probably have called the sandal wearing classes. Cockney gammons dominated the Unite lot. The Millwall and West Ham terraces must have been empty today if either team is playing. - the extremely heavy police presence seemed very effective in keeping the two mobs apart - both were very well prepared for the intermittent heavy showers - the huge amount of rubbish left on the streets for the City of Westminster and Southwark to clear up. I suspect that was probably inevitable - all the bins were filled to overflowing so the demonstrators probably gave up trying to be tidy about 1 pm or so. Despite that, my South American friend was very impressed by how clean London is, certainly compared with his own capital city. I had to break it to him that it's not all Kensington, Westminster and the City - seeing Elon's face filling an oversized screen in Whitehall was surreal and reminded me rather of Big Brother in the 2 Minutes' Hate in the film version of 1984 I've seen. It was also odd seeing Winston Churchill's statue, whose subject fought against fascism but then wanted to campaign in the 1955 election under the slogan "Keep England white" overlooking it all - also surreal seeing hoards of foreign tourists looking on and obviously not really knowing what to make of it all - a very different and uglier atmosphere than the dauntless but maudlin atmosphere at the pro-Ukraine demonstration I attended (intentionally this time) in Trafalgar Square in February. Too bad it couldn't be more like that.
The most Burnham thing now would be for Stringer to stand down in Blackley and Middleton South, Burnham to quit as Mayor (to show his commitment) and get the nomination and lose leaving him out of politics and Labour absent a King Over Water
Is there any seat in Britain that Lab could win in next few months in a by-election?
Liverpool?
Manchester Central seats if they can hold off the Greens or Liverpool Walton, West Derby or Knowsley, Bootle Maybe Edinburgh South
I was in central London during the demonstration and counter-demonstration. Not for either - I hadn't even heard about them beforehand. I was showing a South American friend around town, and we kept sort of intersecting their routes between Parliament Square and St Paul's.
Main subjective and probably completely unrepresentative impressions:
- the Unite lot were much more numerous than the Counters - the Counters were mostly what George Orwell would probably have called the sandal wearing classes. Cockney gammons dominated the Unite lot. The Millwall and West Ham terraces must have been empty today if either team is playing. - the extremely heavy police presence seemed very effective in keeping the two mobs apart - both were very well prepared for the intermittent heavy showers - the huge amount of rubbish left on the streets for the City of Westminster and Southwark to clear up. I suspect that was probably inevitable - all the bins were filled to overflowing so the demonstrators probably gave up trying to be tidy about 1 pm or so. Despite that, my South American friend was very impressed by how clean London is, certainly compared with his own capital city. I had to break it to him that it's not all Kensington, Westminster and the City - seeing Elon's face filling an oversized screen in Whitehall was surreal and reminded me rather of Big Brother in the 2 Minutes' Hate in the film version of 1984 I've seen - also surreal seeing hoards of foreign tourists looking on and obviously not really knowing what to make of it all - a very different and uglier atmosphere than the dauntless but maudlin atmosphere at the pro-Ukraine demonstration I attended (intentionally this time) in Trafalgar Square in February. Too bad it couldn't be more like that.
Maybe they thought England had won the Twitter World Cup.
Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if Kirk's pretty vicious anti-trans stuff was the motivation for this. But if it turns out it wasn't, this is now the third attempt to pin it on Trans. It's clearly the group they've identified as the easiest to ostracise.
Ironically Kirk was talking about trans mass shooters when he was shot.
“Do you know how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last 10 years?” an audience member asked.
“Too many,” Kirk responded to applause from the crowd.
The attendee informed him that the total was five and continued: “Do you know how many mass shooters there have been in America over the last 10 years?”
EXCLUSIVE: Charlie Kirk assassin Tyler Robinson lived with his transgender partner, sources tell me.
The individual, who is a male transitioning to a female, is fully cooperating with the FBI.
Sources tell me the FBI had texts and other communications between Robinson and the individual that helped FBI authorities solidify that Robinson was indeed the shooter.
The underlying point is that since Care in the Community and whatever is its American counterpart, there have been a lot more mentally ill people left to rot on the streets, and occasionally murder someone. Still, the British government and American insurance companies saved a bunch of money and we got some nice luxury flats at the old hospitals, so there's that. Lethal injections though? Is there a loophole in the 10 Commandments?
The actual reason that the old mad houses went away was that
1) they were brutal, horrible places. Out of sight, out of mind. 2) around the world, people who were aware of it, fought against them. And the endless abuses in them. 3) in most advanced countries laws changed. For example, locking people up for life for being a bit odd is now illegal. 4) the medical profession changed as well. You won’t be able to find doctors to force medication on everyone a bit odd - in The Goode Olde Dayz they simply dosed everyone in the madhouse into compliance. 5) so in the new world, you need serious reasons to lock people up, even more serious reasons to force them to take medication.
Worth noting reports that Trumps thugs are attacking street people with Narcan…
The most Burnham thing now would be for Stringer to stand down in Blackley and Middleton South, Burnham to quit as Mayor (to show his commitment) and get the nomination and lose leaving him out of politics and Labour absent a King Over Water
Is there any seat in Britain that Lab could win in next few months in a by-election?
Liverpool?
Manchester Central seats if they can hold off the Greens or Liverpool Walton, West Derby or Knowsley, Bootle Maybe Edinburgh South
I'd figure York Central would be fine for them.
Yeah agreed. No significant Reform presence and Greens very distant, similar to the central Manchester and 'pool seats
He is indeed a muppet of the first water. Is this really the best we can do?
Didn't you opt to sit on your hands in the election? Now you're complaining that Labour aren't up to the job. Sorry David this next 4 years of failure is on you and the other million Tory voters who sat on their hands and watched while Labour got handed a gigantic majority for a tiny number of votes. People like Leon bear some of the responsibility too for getting caught up in that idiotic attitude of "oh the Tories must be punished" without thinking about the consequences of that and voting for Labour knowing how much damage they would inflict on the nation.
I went out and campaigned, had doors shut in my face, got shouted at, sworn at and tried to make sure it wasn't a complete disaster because we all knew what Labour would do with untrammeled power and so it has happened.
I gave Starmer the benefit of the doubt. I honestly and sincerely had absolutely no idea he would be THIS terrible. Who did? Maybe @Casino_Royale
Do I regret my vote? Not really. Inasmuch as I voted with the info available to me. I couldn’t vote Tory because of the last 14 years. Obvs. I was tempted to go reform but then Farage made those weird pro Putin noises at exactly the wrong moment. I despise the Lib Dems
So I thought Why not. He might be surprisingly competent. If anyone can reform the NHS it’s Labour - Tories too scared etc
Oh well
I think it was me, CR and HYFUD warning the rest of you on the centre right not to listen to the mob baying for Tory blood because of Liz Truss and Boris Johnson. If Rishi had taken over two years earlier between him and Hunt the country would have been in a much better place today and I don't think the party would have been wiped out. It was Rishi that turned off the immigration tap, it was Rishi that pushed for the Rwanda scheme and faced off against the liberal wanky judges, it was Rishi that put a halt to the chagos islands surrender. You judged the Tories on the basis of what Boris and Liz Truss did, which is fair, but ultimately they were gone and there's no doubt that Rishi was a better PM than Starmer and Hunt a better Chancellor than Reeves.
I think you and a couple of million soft centre right voters got caught up in the media nonsense about "punishing" the Tories and forgot that the resulting Labour government would be worse in all aspects, especially on immigration and stopping the boats.
Nevertheless it was the Tories, and their members, that got obsessed first with Brexit, then with Johnson, then with the most damaging hard Brexit, and then with Truss. What they suffer now is most wholly deserved.
I'd vaguely assumed that Mandelson's association with Epstein had been in the public domain for several years. Was this association completely unknown until the last few days?
The pre-conviction stuff was known of. The post conviction stuff was a vaguer rumour.
Reporting on it didn’t happen because of the known epic nastiness of Mandelson towards those he regarded as “enemies”
EXCLUSIVE: Charlie Kirk assassin Tyler Robinson lived with his transgender partner, sources tell me.
The individual, who is a male transitioning to a female, is fully cooperating with the FBI.
Sources tell me the FBI had texts and other communications between Robinson and the individual that helped FBI authorities solidify that Robinson was indeed the shooter.
The underlying point is that since Care in the Community and whatever is its American counterpart, there have been a lot more mentally ill people left to rot on the streets, and occasionally murder someone. Still, the British government and American insurance companies saved a bunch of money and we got some nice luxury flats at the old hospitals, so there's that. Lethal injections though? Is there a loophole in the 10 Commandments?
The actual reason that the old mad houses went away was that
1) they were brutal, horrible places. Out of sight, out of mind. 2) around the world, people who were aware of it, fought against them. And the endless abuses in them. 3) in most advanced countries laws changed. For example, locking people up for life for being a bit odd is now illegal. 4) the medical profession changed as well. You won’t be able to find doctors to force medication on everyone a bit odd - in The Goode Olde Dayz they simply dosed everyone in the madhouse into compliance. 5) so in the new world, you need serious reasons to lock people up, even more serious reasons to force them to take medication.
Worth noting reports that Trumps thugs are attacking street people with Narcan…
One of the ironies being that the politician who got Care in the Community rolling in the UK was Enoch Powell.
He is indeed a muppet of the first water. Is this really the best we can do?
Didn't you opt to sit on your hands in the election? Now you're complaining that Labour aren't up to the job. Sorry David this next 4 years of failure is on you and the other million Tory voters who sat on their hands and watched while Labour got handed a gigantic majority for a tiny number of votes. People like Leon bear some of the responsibility too for getting caught up in that idiotic attitude of "oh the Tories must be punished" without thinking about the consequences of that and voting for Labour knowing how much damage they would inflict on the nation.
I went out and campaigned, had doors shut in my face, got shouted at, sworn at and tried to make sure it wasn't a complete disaster because we all knew what Labour would do with untrammeled power and so it has happened.
I gave Starmer the benefit of the doubt. I honestly and sincerely had absolutely no idea he would be THIS terrible. Who did? Maybe @Casino_Royale
Do I regret my vote? Not really. Inasmuch as I voted with the info available to me. I couldn’t vote Tory because of the last 14 years. Obvs. I was tempted to go reform but then Farage made those weird pro Putin noises at exactly the wrong moment. I despise the Lib Dems
So I thought Why not. He might be surprisingly competent. If anyone can reform the NHS it’s Labour - Tories too scared etc
Oh well
I think it was me, CR and HYFUD warning the rest of you on the centre right not to listen to the mob baying for Tory blood because of Liz Truss and Boris Johnson. If Rishi had taken over two years earlier between him and Hunt the country would have been in a much better place today and I don't think the party would have been wiped out. It was Rishi that turned off the immigration tap, it was Rishi that pushed for the Rwanda scheme and faced off against the liberal wanky judges, it was Rishi that put a halt to the chagos islands surrender. You judged the Tories on the basis of what Boris and Liz Truss did, which is fair, but ultimately they were gone and there's no doubt that Rishi was a better PM than Starmer and Hunt a better Chancellor than Reeves.
I think you and a couple of million soft centre right voters got caught up in the media nonsense about "punishing" the Tories and forgot that the resulting Labour government would be worse in all aspects, especially on immigration and stopping the boats.
Nevertheless it was the Tories, and their members, that got obsessed first with Brexit, then with Johnson, then with the most damaging hard Brexit, and then with Truss. What they suffer now is most wholly deserved.
Water under the bridge. Water under the bridge.
I read tonight on PB a Tory coalition Government is imminent.
Is it though? How easy it it for him to be removed? A Tory PM you could see falling over this, but Labour? A year after a crushing (if fluky) election win?
I wouldn’t be backing a 2025 exit.
Few people are. It's 10/1 against.
Best price on oddschecker is 7/1
And 2026 best price is 2/1
2026 is most likely timing. Also for Kemi. After the May local elections.
I think if he navigates this Mandelson stuff he is probably safe for a fair bit. I can't see them moving against him purely on the basis of bad election results in midterm. Two years from now if he's still very unpopular and there's been no signs of improvement, I think the calls will be made that he can't possibly oversee the next GE, and at that point a retirement is plausible.
Kemi however will be turfed out I think, after May.
He is indeed a muppet of the first water. Is this really the best we can do?
Didn't you opt to sit on your hands in the election? Now you're complaining that Labour aren't up to the job. Sorry David this next 4 years of failure is on you and the other million Tory voters who sat on their hands and watched while Labour got handed a gigantic majority for a tiny number of votes. People like Leon bear some of the responsibility too for getting caught up in that idiotic attitude of "oh the Tories must be punished" without thinking about the consequences of that and voting for Labour knowing how much damage they would inflict on the nation.
I went out and campaigned, had doors shut in my face, got shouted at, sworn at and tried to make sure it wasn't a complete disaster because we all knew what Labour would do with untrammeled power and so it has happened.
I gave Starmer the benefit of the doubt. I honestly and sincerely had absolutely no idea he would be THIS terrible. Who did? Maybe @Casino_Royale
Do I regret my vote? Not really. Inasmuch as I voted with the info available to me. I couldn’t vote Tory because of the last 14 years. Obvs. I was tempted to go reform but then Farage made those weird pro Putin noises at exactly the wrong moment. I despise the Lib Dems
So I thought Why not. He might be surprisingly competent. If anyone can reform the NHS it’s Labour - Tories too scared etc
Oh well
I think it was me, CR and HYFUD warning the rest of you on the centre right not to listen to the mob baying for Tory blood because of Liz Truss and Boris Johnson. If Rishi had taken over two years earlier between him and Hunt the country would have been in a much better place today and I don't think the party would have been wiped out. It was Rishi that turned off the immigration tap, it was Rishi that pushed for the Rwanda scheme and faced off against the liberal wanky judges, it was Rishi that put a halt to the chagos islands surrender. You judged the Tories on the basis of what Boris and Liz Truss did, which is fair, but ultimately they were gone and there's no doubt that Rishi was a better PM than Starmer and Hunt a better Chancellor than Reeves.
I think you and a couple of million soft centre right voters got caught up in the media nonsense about "punishing" the Tories and forgot that the resulting Labour government would be worse in all aspects, especially on immigration and stopping the boats.
Nevertheless it was the Tories, and their members, that got obsessed first with Brexit, then with Johnson, then with the most damaging hard Brexit, and then with Truss. What they suffer now is most wholly deserved.
Water under the bridge. Water under the bridge.
Only when voters have forgotten. In probably a decade, at least
I'm starting to think that Newsom might actually have a shot.
CALIFORNIA OFFICIALLY PASSES SB 79, ONE OF THE LARGEST HOUSING BILLS IN STATE HISTORY
- Legalizes multifamily near high-frequency transit statewide - Up to 9 stories when next to major transit, 7-8 stories within ¼ mile, 5-6 up to ½ mile - Min 60–120 units/acre + FAR minimums https://x.com/YIMBYLAND/status/1966659882867655019
That is an idea that has been floated here, isn't it? Building near railways and motorways?
Already happens in London. Imagine the fun if the building at the junction of those two railway lines caught fire?
He is indeed a muppet of the first water. Is this really the best we can do?
Didn't you opt to sit on your hands in the election? Now you're complaining that Labour aren't up to the job. Sorry David this next 4 years of failure is on you and the other million Tory voters who sat on their hands and watched while Labour got handed a gigantic majority for a tiny number of votes. People like Leon bear some of the responsibility too for getting caught up in that idiotic attitude of "oh the Tories must be punished" without thinking about the consequences of that and voting for Labour knowing how much damage they would inflict on the nation.
I went out and campaigned, had doors shut in my face, got shouted at, sworn at and tried to make sure it wasn't a complete disaster because we all knew what Labour would do with untrammeled power and so it has happened.
I gave Starmer the benefit of the doubt. I honestly and sincerely had absolutely no idea he would be THIS terrible. Who did? Maybe @Casino_Royale
Do I regret my vote? Not really. Inasmuch as I voted with the info available to me. I couldn’t vote Tory because of the last 14 years. Obvs. I was tempted to go reform but then Farage made those weird pro Putin noises at exactly the wrong moment. I despise the Lib Dems
So I thought Why not. He might be surprisingly competent. If anyone can reform the NHS it’s Labour - Tories too scared etc
Oh well
I think it was me, CR and HYFUD warning the rest of you on the centre right not to listen to the mob baying for Tory blood because of Liz Truss and Boris Johnson. If Rishi had taken over two years earlier between him and Hunt the country would have been in a much better place today and I don't think the party would have been wiped out. It was Rishi that turned off the immigration tap, it was Rishi that pushed for the Rwanda scheme and faced off against the liberal wanky judges, it was Rishi that put a halt to the chagos islands surrender. You judged the Tories on the basis of what Boris and Liz Truss did, which is fair, but ultimately they were gone and there's no doubt that Rishi was a better PM than Starmer and Hunt a better Chancellor than Reeves.
I think you and a couple of million soft centre right voters got caught up in the media nonsense about "punishing" the Tories and forgot that the resulting Labour government would be worse in all aspects, especially on immigration and stopping the boats.
Nevertheless it was the Tories, and their members, that got obsessed first with Brexit, then with Johnson, then with the most damaging hard Brexit, and then with Truss. What they suffer now is most wholly deserved.
Water under the bridge. Water under the bridge.
I read tonight on PB a Tory coalition Government is imminent.
Is it though? How easy it it for him to be removed? A Tory PM you could see falling over this, but Labour? A year after a crushing (if fluky) election win?
I wouldn’t be backing a 2025 exit.
Few people are. It's 10/1 against.
Best price on oddschecker is 7/1
And 2026 best price is 2/1
2026 is most likely timing. Also for Kemi. After the May local elections.
I think if he navigates this Mandelson stuff he is probably safe for a fair bit. I can't see them moving against him purely on the basis of bad election results in midterm. Two years from now if he's still very unpopular and there's been no signs of improvement, I think the calls will be made that he can't possibly oversee the next GE, and at that point a retirement is plausible.
Kemi however will be turfed out I think, after May.
There must still be time before the next GE to give all the remaining Conservative MPs a shot at LotO.
Is it though? How easy it it for him to be removed? A Tory PM you could see falling over this, but Labour? A year after a crushing (if fluky) election win?
I wouldn’t be backing a 2025 exit.
Few people are. It's 10/1 against.
Best price on oddschecker is 7/1
And 2026 best price is 2/1
2026 is most likely timing. Also for Kemi. After the May local elections.
I think if he navigates this Mandelson stuff he is probably safe for a fair bit. I can't see them moving against him purely on the basis of bad election results in midterm. Two years from now if he's still very unpopular and there's been no signs of improvement, I think the calls will be made that he can't possibly oversee the next GE, and at that point a retirement is plausible.
Kemi however will be turfed out I think, after May.
There must still be time before the next GE to give all the remaining Conservative MPs a shot at LotO.
118 left to have a go and 1 whip suspendee. Reform only have 2 left to try out as leader of their party though so they should be able to win that particular race
EXCLUSIVE: Charlie Kirk assassin Tyler Robinson lived with his transgender partner, sources tell me.
The individual, who is a male transitioning to a female, is fully cooperating with the FBI.
Sources tell me the FBI had texts and other communications between Robinson and the individual that helped FBI authorities solidify that Robinson was indeed the shooter.
The underlying point is that since Care in the Community and whatever is its American counterpart, there have been a lot more mentally ill people left to rot on the streets, and occasionally murder someone. Still, the British government and American insurance companies saved a bunch of money and we got some nice luxury flats at the old hospitals, so there's that. Lethal injections though? Is there a loophole in the 10 Commandments?
The actual reason that the old mad houses went away was that
1) they were brutal, horrible places. Out of sight, out of mind. 2) around the world, people who were aware of it, fought against them. And the endless abuses in them. 3) in most advanced countries laws changed. For example, locking people up for life for being a bit odd is now illegal. 4) the medical profession changed as well. You won’t be able to find doctors to force medication on everyone a bit odd - in The Goode Olde Dayz they simply dosed everyone in the madhouse into compliance. 5) so in the new world, you need serious reasons to lock people up, even more serious reasons to force them to take medication.
Worth noting reports that Trumps thugs are attacking street people with Narcan…
One of the ironies being that the politician who got Care in the Community rolling in the UK was Enoch Powell.
Not especially ironic. In many things he was actually a thoughtful and rather progressive man. Being one of the first from mainstream politics to fall down the immigration/race rat hole destroyed his reputation - justly.
Is it though? How easy it it for him to be removed? A Tory PM you could see falling over this, but Labour? A year after a crushing (if fluky) election win?
I wouldn’t be backing a 2025 exit.
Few people are. It's 10/1 against.
Best price on oddschecker is 7/1
And 2026 best price is 2/1
2026 is most likely timing. Also for Kemi. After the May local elections.
I think if he navigates this Mandelson stuff he is probably safe for a fair bit. I can't see them moving against him purely on the basis of bad election results in midterm. Two years from now if he's still very unpopular and there's been no signs of improvement, I think the calls will be made that he can't possibly oversee the next GE, and at that point a retirement is plausible.
Kemi however will be turfed out I think, after May.
There must still be time before the next GE to give all the remaining Conservative MPs a shot at LotO.
If Starmer had to go early it would potentially change the calculation of who would be best to lead the Tories in opposition. If it was a Blairite you might need a different tack to Labour under someone from the left so that will weigh on any potential Tory positioning with regard to ditching Kemi. I don’t know what the calculations would be but if it was a Rayner type then a more centrist Tory might benefit from being in the middle with Farage on one side and Lenin on the other for example.
EXCLUSIVE: Charlie Kirk assassin Tyler Robinson lived with his transgender partner, sources tell me.
The individual, who is a male transitioning to a female, is fully cooperating with the FBI.
Sources tell me the FBI had texts and other communications between Robinson and the individual that helped FBI authorities solidify that Robinson was indeed the shooter.
The underlying point is that since Care in the Community and whatever is its American counterpart, there have been a lot more mentally ill people left to rot on the streets, and occasionally murder someone. Still, the British government and American insurance companies saved a bunch of money and we got some nice luxury flats at the old hospitals, so there's that. Lethal injections though? Is there a loophole in the 10 Commandments?
The actual reason that the old mad houses went away was that
1) they were brutal, horrible places. Out of sight, out of mind. 2) around the world, people who were aware of it, fought against them. And the endless abuses in them. 3) in most advanced countries laws changed. For example, locking people up for life for being a bit odd is now illegal. 4) the medical profession changed as well. You won’t be able to find doctors to force medication on everyone a bit odd - in The Goode Olde Dayz they simply dosed everyone in the madhouse into compliance. 5) so in the new world, you need serious reasons to lock people up, even more serious reasons to force them to take medication.
Worth noting reports that Trumps thugs are attacking street people with Narcan…
One of the ironies being that the politician who got Care in the Community rolling in the UK was Enoch Powell.
Not especially ironic. In many things he was actually a thoughtful and rather progressive man. Being one of the first from mainstream politics to fall down the immigration/race rat hole destroyed his reputation - justly.
Dwellings in Victorian times were very different to dwellings today, so I'm pretty sure that large mental institutions would also be different. The bad things about them (there were also good things) do not undermine their importance, both then and now.
He is indeed a muppet of the first water. Is this really the best we can do?
Didn't you opt to sit on your hands in the election? Now you're complaining that Labour aren't up to the job. Sorry David this next 4 years of failure is on you and the other million Tory voters who sat on their hands and watched while Labour got handed a gigantic majority for a tiny number of votes. People like Leon bear some of the responsibility too for getting caught up in that idiotic attitude of "oh the Tories must be punished" without thinking about the consequences of that and voting for Labour knowing how much damage they would inflict on the nation.
I went out and campaigned, had doors shut in my face, got shouted at, sworn at and tried to make sure it wasn't a complete disaster because we all knew what Labour would do with untrammeled power and so it has happened.
I gave Starmer the benefit of the doubt. I honestly and sincerely had absolutely no idea he would be THIS terrible. Who did? Maybe @Casino_Royale
Do I regret my vote? Not really. Inasmuch as I voted with the info available to me. I couldn’t vote Tory because of the last 14 years. Obvs. I was tempted to go reform but then Farage made those weird pro Putin noises at exactly the wrong moment. I despise the Lib Dems
So I thought Why not. He might be surprisingly competent. If anyone can reform the NHS it’s Labour - Tories too scared etc
Oh well
I think it was me, CR and HYFUD warning the rest of you on the centre right not to listen to the mob baying for Tory blood because of Liz Truss and Boris Johnson. If Rishi had taken over two years earlier between him and Hunt the country would have been in a much better place today and I don't think the party would have been wiped out. It was Rishi that turned off the immigration tap, it was Rishi that pushed for the Rwanda scheme and faced off against the liberal wanky judges, it was Rishi that put a halt to the chagos islands surrender. You judged the Tories on the basis of what Boris and Liz Truss did, which is fair, but ultimately they were gone and there's no doubt that Rishi was a better PM than Starmer and Hunt a better Chancellor than Reeves.
I think you and a couple of million soft centre right voters got caught up in the media nonsense about "punishing" the Tories and forgot that the resulting Labour government would be worse in all aspects, especially on immigration and stopping the boats.
Nevertheless it was the Tories, and their members, that got obsessed first with Brexit, then with Johnson, then with the most damaging hard Brexit, and then with Truss. What they suffer now is most wholly deserved.
Water under the bridge. Water under the bridge.
I read tonight on PB a Tory coalition Government is imminent.
He is indeed a muppet of the first water. Is this really the best we can do?
Didn't you opt to sit on your hands in the election? Now you're complaining that Labour aren't up to the job. Sorry David this next 4 years of failure is on you and the other million Tory voters who sat on their hands and watched while Labour got handed a gigantic majority for a tiny number of votes. People like Leon bear some of the responsibility too for getting caught up in that idiotic attitude of "oh the Tories must be punished" without thinking about the consequences of that and voting for Labour knowing how much damage they would inflict on the nation.
I went out and campaigned, had doors shut in my face, got shouted at, sworn at and tried to make sure it wasn't a complete disaster because we all knew what Labour would do with untrammeled power and so it has happened.
I gave Starmer the benefit of the doubt. I honestly and sincerely had absolutely no idea he would be THIS terrible. Who did? Maybe @Casino_Royale
Do I regret my vote? Not really. Inasmuch as I voted with the info available to me. I couldn’t vote Tory because of the last 14 years. Obvs. I was tempted to go reform but then Farage made those weird pro Putin noises at exactly the wrong moment. I despise the Lib Dems
So I thought Why not. He might be surprisingly competent. If anyone can reform the NHS it’s Labour - Tories too scared etc
Oh well
I think it was me, CR and HYFUD warning the rest of you on the centre right not to listen to the mob baying for Tory blood because of Liz Truss and Boris Johnson. If Rishi had taken over two years earlier between him and Hunt the country would have been in a much better place today and I don't think the party would have been wiped out. It was Rishi that turned off the immigration tap, it was Rishi that pushed for the Rwanda scheme and faced off against the liberal wanky judges, it was Rishi that put a halt to the chagos islands surrender. You judged the Tories on the basis of what Boris and Liz Truss did, which is fair, but ultimately they were gone and there's no doubt that Rishi was a better PM than Starmer and Hunt a better Chancellor than Reeves.
I think you and a couple of million soft centre right voters got caught up in the media nonsense about "punishing" the Tories and forgot that the resulting Labour government would be worse in all aspects, especially on immigration and stopping the boats.
Nevertheless it was the Tories, and their members, that got obsessed first with Brexit, then with Johnson, then with the most damaging hard Brexit, and then with Truss. What they suffer now is most wholly deserved.
Water under the bridge. Water under the bridge.
I read tonight on PB a Tory coalition Government is imminent.
Anything is better than this mob.
Careful. No deal is better than a bad deal and all that…
Don’t suppose you would visit santo stefano and pop a couple of paragraphs on here please?
I’ve been wanting to visit for a while and I don’t think it will ever happen.
Ta.
Happy to! Er, what and where is it? Do you mean the famous round Roman church?
If so I have already been there and it is WONDROUS and full of NOOM
Here. AI overview. I like old stuff. It helps me think.
The "Santo Stefano" ancient site refers to a significant Neolithic complex in Oschiri, Sardinia, centered around a large, mysterious rock altar carved with triangular, circular, and square niches and cup-marks. This sacred site also features an underground necropolis with several Domus de Janas, or "fairy houses". The altar's precise function, dating, and the meaning of its carvings remain debated, but it is an important testament to ancient Sardinia's sophisticated stonework and spiritual practices, potentially dating to the Ozieri culture (3500–2700 BCE).
I'm starting to think that Newsom might actually have a shot.
CALIFORNIA OFFICIALLY PASSES SB 79, ONE OF THE LARGEST HOUSING BILLS IN STATE HISTORY
- Legalizes multifamily near high-frequency transit statewide - Up to 9 stories when next to major transit, 7-8 stories within ¼ mile, 5-6 up to ½ mile - Min 60–120 units/acre + FAR minimums https://x.com/YIMBYLAND/status/1966659882867655019
That is an idea that has been floated here, isn't it? Building near railways and motorways?
Already happens in London. Imagine the fun if the building at the junction of those two railway lines caught fire?
Glad to see you are all keeping the debates running in the PB tradition. For what it's worth my take is that Labour are struggling badly of course, but the Tories won't be forgiven for 14 years mismanagement any time soon, if ever.
Far too soon to say what the outcome of the next election to be. Personally I expect (and certainly hope) that Reform's bubble will burst before then.
Starmer won't be ousted until 2028, and then only if the polls remain dire. You're welcome ;-)
Glad to see you are all keeping the debates running in the PB tradition. For what it's worth my take is that Labour are struggling badly of course, but the Tories won't be forgiven for 14 years mismanagement any time soon, if ever.
Far too soon to say what the outcome of the next election to be. Personally I expect (and certainly hope) that Reform's bubble will burst before then.
Starmer won't be ousted until 2028, and then only if the polls remain dire. You're welcome ;-)
Keep the debates going!
Nice to see the integrated bat box. Hope it was less than £100m.
The most Burnham thing now would be for Stringer to stand down in Blackley and Middleton South, Burnham to quit as Mayor (to show his commitment) and get the nomination and lose leaving him out of politics and Labour absent a King Over Water
Is there any seat in Britain that Lab could win in next few months in a by-election?
Liverpool?
Manchester Central seats if they can hold off the Greens or Liverpool Walton, West Derby or Knowsley, Bootle Maybe Edinburgh South
I'd figure York Central would be fine for them.
Yeah agreed. No significant Reform presence and Greens very distant, similar to the central Manchester and 'pool seats
I reckon they'd hold Denton and Gorton. Where coincidentally one of Burnham's pals is unxer pressure to step down after a Whatsapp scandal.
EXCLUSIVE: Charlie Kirk assassin Tyler Robinson lived with his transgender partner, sources tell me.
The individual, who is a male transitioning to a female, is fully cooperating with the FBI.
Sources tell me the FBI had texts and other communications between Robinson and the individual that helped FBI authorities solidify that Robinson was indeed the shooter.
The underlying point is that since Care in the Community and whatever is its American counterpart, there have been a lot more mentally ill people left to rot on the streets, and occasionally murder someone. Still, the British government and American insurance companies saved a bunch of money and we got some nice luxury flats at the old hospitals, so there's that. Lethal injections though? Is there a loophole in the 10 Commandments?
The actual reason that the old mad houses went away was that
1) they were brutal, horrible places. Out of sight, out of mind. 2) around the world, people who were aware of it, fought against them. And the endless abuses in them. 3) in most advanced countries laws changed. For example, locking people up for life for being a bit odd is now illegal. 4) the medical profession changed as well. You won’t be able to find doctors to force medication on everyone a bit odd - in The Goode Olde Dayz they simply dosed everyone in the madhouse into compliance. 5) so in the new world, you need serious reasons to lock people up, even more serious reasons to force them to take medication.
Worth noting reports that Trumps thugs are attacking street people with Narcan…
One of the ironies being that the politician who got Care in the Community rolling in the UK was Enoch Powell.
Not especially ironic. In many things he was actually a thoughtful and rather progressive man. Being one of the first from mainstream politics to fall down the immigration/race rat hole destroyed his reputation - justly.
Dwellings in Victorian times were very different to dwellings today, so I'm pretty sure that large mental institutions would also be different. The bad things about them (there were also good things) do not undermine their importance, both then and now.
Yes, Victorian mental institutions were important to keep the clinically insane away from civilised society. The clinically insane being (in modern terms) the sort of people who regurgitate the Kremlin's line over their MH17 shootdown, Ukrainian biolabs, and the sort of mad soul who thinks Truss was correct.
It's a good job PB has no-one like that, but perhaps we really are a care in the community site.
Don’t suppose you would visit santo stefano and pop a couple of paragraphs on here please?
I’ve been wanting to visit for a while and I don’t think it will ever happen.
Ta.
Happy to! Er, what and where is it? Do you mean the famous round Roman church?
If so I have already been there and it is WONDROUS and full of NOOM
Here. AI overview. I like old stuff. It helps me think.
The "Santo Stefano" ancient site refers to a significant Neolithic complex in Oschiri, Sardinia, centered around a large, mysterious rock altar carved with triangular, circular, and square niches and cup-marks. This sacred site also features an underground necropolis with several Domus de Janas, or "fairy houses". The altar's precise function, dating, and the meaning of its carvings remain debated, but it is an important testament to ancient Sardinia's sophisticated stonework and spiritual practices, potentially dating to the Ozieri culture (3500–2700 BCE).
Ooh. I might have a go!
Sardinia is fab for ancient weird stuff. Today I went to Sas Costas
It's yet another of thousands of prehistoric monuments on the island, but inside these 6000 year old rock cut "hypogeum" tombs - built by an even more mysterious culture that came BEFORE the really mysterious Nuragic culture - how many mysterious cultures can you have? Not enough! - there is something special. A motif of inverted stick figures - the capovolti - literally "the inverted men" - are chiselled into the living rock of the largest death chamber
Marked out with chalk, drawn with eerie perspective, as if you are looking down a lane of crucified upside down messiahs, no one knows quite what they symbolise - the passage of souls into the other realm? A dire warning of hideous torture to grave robbers? A depiction of gruesome human sacrifice? The latter is far from impossible, it is thought the Nuragic cultures likely drowned victims in their sacred wells, which puts a disturbing new light on their water worship
You're not meant to go into Sas Costas. The obvious route is locked and requires you to call obscure numbers. But it is quite easy to slip over the fence, do no damage, spook yourself out, and leave. So I did. It makes it all the better that there is no tourist kiosk, with audio guide, and bored Swedish families led by earnest fathers. You have to break in like a Barbagian bandit
Every one on pb should go. You will almost certainly be alone. In the silence. Of the tomb. With the sun Throbbing outside. As you stare at the inverted men
“Starmer appointed Mandelson without proper checks Labour peer appointed on back of flimsy two-page dossier and light questioning”
Telegraph
A couple of decades ago, a friend of mine was hired to work at GCHQ, straight out of uni. This required a background check so thorough that he spent six months of employment twiddling his thumbs, unable to do any actual work. A check in which, it seems, everyone he knew was talked to. He got so fed up wit the wait that the security clearance came through shortly after he left GCHQ to join Acorn. (*)
Yet top jobs seem to be allocated by: "They're a good person, I'll vouch for them."
(*) This is probably enough for some in the know to identify him...
It’s quite mental that of all the people who were involved with Epstein, the only men who have suffered as a result are three Brits; Prince Andrew, Mandyumyum and Starmer.
Any articles in the NYT about how awful we are compared to the US over our attitude to this matter?
We are now into at least the 4th year of this new trend, where the solution to deep flaws with getting things done in the British system is to reach for a shiny new leader (who invariably disappoints further) https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1966820737777308004
Starmer will resign then refuse to leave as his own resignation letter never crossed his desk
Just think how many court cases he would have won if he had the gumption to ask questions and get staff to bring him background info on defendants and witnesses before standing up and making a case.
“Starmer appointed Mandelson without proper checks Labour peer appointed on back of flimsy two-page dossier and light questioning”
Telegraph
Uh oh. Graham Stringer might want to hurry that resignation right along, The King of The North might feel his moment has arrived.
This isn’t going away. What did Lord Yum Yum mean by “yum yum” and “interesting friends”. Why wasn’t Starmer more wary? Did he know all this and not care?
What’s more, we have 18,000 new Epstein emails to come. How many will involve the Earl of Yumminess, British Ambassador to Pedo Island? Appointed by Skyr Toolmakersson?
I am raising my odds of Starmer quitting over this from 35% to 41%
He is indeed a muppet of the first water. Is this really the best we can do?
Didn't you opt to sit on your hands in the election? Now you're complaining that Labour aren't up to the job. Sorry David this next 4 years of failure is on you and the other million Tory voters who sat on their hands and watched while Labour got handed a gigantic majority for a tiny number of votes. People like Leon bear some of the responsibility too for getting caught up in that idiotic attitude of "oh the Tories must be punished" without thinking about the consequences of that and voting for Labour knowing how much damage they would inflict on the nation.
I went out and campaigned, had doors shut in my face, got shouted at, sworn at and tried to make sure it wasn't a complete disaster because we all knew what Labour would do with untrammeled power and so it has happened.
I gave Starmer the benefit of the doubt. I honestly and sincerely had absolutely no idea he would be THIS terrible. Who did? Maybe @Casino_Royale
Do I regret my vote? Not really. Inasmuch as I voted with the info available to me. I couldn’t vote Tory because of the last 14 years. Obvs. I was tempted to go reform but then Farage made those weird pro Putin noises at exactly the wrong moment. I despise the Lib Dems
So I thought Why not. He might be surprisingly competent. If anyone can reform the NHS it’s Labour - Tories too scared etc
Oh well
I think it was me, CR and HYFUD warning the rest of you on the centre right not to listen to the mob baying for Tory blood because of Liz Truss and Boris Johnson. If Rishi had taken over two years earlier between him and Hunt the country would have been in a much better place today and I don't think the party would have been wiped out. It was Rishi that turned off the immigration tap, it was Rishi that pushed for the Rwanda scheme and faced off against the liberal wanky judges, it was Rishi that put a halt to the chagos islands surrender. You judged the Tories on the basis of what Boris and Liz Truss did, which is fair, but ultimately they were gone and there's no doubt that Rishi was a better PM than Starmer and Hunt a better Chancellor than Reeves.
I think you and a couple of million soft centre right voters got caught up in the media nonsense about "punishing" the Tories and forgot that the resulting Labour government would be worse in all aspects, especially on immigration and stopping the boats.
The Tories deserve to go extinct for the Boriswave. Not just lose an election. They need to die out completely. What they did is unforgivable
I want them replaced by reform ASAP and it seems a large chunk of the country agrees with me
How can they ever come back from what they did?
How many of the Boriswave were refugees from Ukraine and from Hong Kong?
We are now into at least the 4th year of this new trend, where the solution to deep flaws with getting things done in the British system is to reach for a shiny new leader (who invariably disappoints further) https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1966820737777308004
But unless we have a leader who is prepared to mend those flaws, then the system won't improve. Starmer has made it very clear that he isn't for changing the system. He is the system. So as frustrating as it is, changing the PM is the only way forward.
It’s quite mental that of all the people who were involved with Epstein, the only men who have suffered as a result are three Brits; Prince Andrew, Mandyumyum and Starmer.
Any articles in the NYT about how awful we are compared to the US over our attitude to this matter?
It’s quite mental that of all the people who were involved with Epstein, the only men who have suffered as a result are three Brits; Prince Andrew, Mandyumyum and Starmer.
Any articles in the NYT about how awful we are compared to the US over our attitude to this matter?
You're forgetting the Yank in charge of one of our major banks, Jes Staley, he suffered too.
It’s quite mental that of all the people who were involved with Epstein, the only men who have suffered as a result are three Brits; Prince Andrew, Mandyumyum and Starmer.
Any articles in the NYT about how awful we are compared to the US over our attitude to this matter?
"Mandyumyum" is inspired! Well done!
Well, Yum Yum was one of the Three Little Maids from School.
What are the mechanics of Starmer quitting? What does it take?
A procession of Cabinet Ministers? They are all pathetic wimps
A mutiny of MPs? A refusal to pass legislation? There must be a method, even within Labour, to bring down a rotten PM. And my God he is rotten now, and we all know he’s never going to improve. This is it. We either suffer four years of this agony, dogged by scandal (yummygate could run and run by itself) OR he fucks off and we all breathe a sigh of relief
What are the mechanics of Starmer quitting? What does it take?
A procession of Cabinet Ministers? They are all pathetic wimps
A mutiny of MPs? A refusal to pass legislation? There must be a method, even within Labour, to bring down a rotten PM. And my God he is rotten now, and we all know he’s never going to improve. This is it. We either suffer four years of this agony, dogged by scandal (yummygate could run and run by itself) OR he fucks off and we all breathe a sigh of relief
It’s quite mental that of all the people who were involved with Epstein, the only men who have suffered as a result are three Brits; Prince Andrew, Mandyumyum and Starmer.
Any articles in the NYT about how awful we are compared to the US over our attitude to this matter?
You're forgetting the Yank in charge of one of our major banks, Jes Staley, he suffered too.
Yes good point, I have a friend who worked directly under him and they have strong views about him. But in terms of general profile you aren’t seeing the household names in the US falling over this.
“Starmer appointed Mandelson without proper checks Labour peer appointed on back of flimsy two-page dossier and light questioning”
Telegraph
Uh oh. Graham Stringer might want to hurry that resignation right along, The King of The North might feel his moment has arrived.
This isn’t going away. What did Lord Yum Yum mean by “yum yum” and “interesting friends”. Why wasn’t Starmer more wary? Did he know all this and not care?
What’s more, we have 18,000 new Epstein emails to come. How many will involve the Earl of Yumminess, British Ambassador to Pedo Island? Appointed by Skyr Toolmakersson?
I am raising my odds of Starmer quitting over this from 35% to 41%
I think Starmer will go, but it will be death by 1,000 cuts as he clings on whilst more stories are drip fed to the media. The Daily Star might want to send someone out to Tesco Express for a lettuce.
Question is, does King Andy have time to get his ducks in a row?
It’s quite mental that of all the people who were involved with Epstein, the only men who have suffered as a result are three Brits; Prince Andrew, Mandyumyum and Starmer.
Any articles in the NYT about how awful we are compared to the US over our attitude to this matter?
"Mandyumyum" is inspired! Well done!
Well, Yum Yum was one of the Three Little Maids from School.
As The Grand Poobah of PB I approve of posts featuring The Mikado.
“Starmer appointed Mandelson without proper checks Labour peer appointed on back of flimsy two-page dossier and light questioning”
Telegraph
Uh oh. Graham Stringer might want to hurry that resignation right along, The King of The North might feel his moment has arrived.
This isn’t going away. What did Lord Yum Yum mean by “yum yum” and “interesting friends”. Why wasn’t Starmer more wary? Did he know all this and not care?
What’s more, we have 18,000 new Epstein emails to come. How many will involve the Earl of Yumminess, British Ambassador to Pedo Island? Appointed by Skyr Toolmakersson?
I am raising my odds of Starmer quitting over this from 35% to 41%
I think Starmer will go, but it will be death by 1,000 cuts as he clings on whilst more stories are drip fed to the media. The Daily Star might want to send someone out to Tesco Express for a lettuce.
Question is, does King Andy have time to get his ducks in a row?
It’s quite mental that of all the people who were involved with Epstein, the only men who have suffered as a result are three Brits; Prince Andrew, Mandyumyum and Starmer.
Any articles in the NYT about how awful we are compared to the US over our attitude to this matter?
"Mandyumyum" is inspired! Well done!
Well, Yum Yum was one of the Three Little Maids from School.
As The Grand Poobah of PB I approve of posts featuring The Mikado.
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found....
It’s quite mental that of all the people who were involved with Epstein, the only men who have suffered as a result are three Brits; Prince Andrew, Mandyumyum and Starmer.
Any articles in the NYT about how awful we are compared to the US over our attitude to this matter?
"Mandyumyum" is inspired! Well done!
Well, Yum Yum was one of the Three Little Maids from School.
As The Grand Poobah of PB I approve of posts featuring The Mikado.
Whose head is next on some pretext to be decapitated?
It’s quite mental that of all the people who were involved with Epstein, the only men who have suffered as a result are three Brits; Prince Andrew, Mandyumyum and Starmer.
Any articles in the NYT about how awful we are compared to the US over our attitude to this matter?
"Mandyumyum" is inspired! Well done!
Well, Yum Yum was one of the Three Little Maids from School.
There is a cake called a Yum Yum and there is a cake called a Twinkie and Twink is gay slang for pretty young men of a certain type. Maybe it was a joke between them.
Starmer will resign then refuse to leave as his own resignation letter never crossed his desk
Good evening
I think that Starmer, in his haste to cuddle upto Trump , dismissed genuine concerns over Mandelson's connections with Epstein as Mandelson's skills certainly were a benefit but then he was high risk and unfortunately for Starmer, the revelations this week and his endorsement of Mandelson under Badenoch's questioning, has put him in a very difficult place, but was predictable and an error that may well have serious repercussions for him
I also suspect Starmer is largely being played like a puppet by the Blairite wing of the party
A vox pop of Mandelson's former constituency was scathing and virtually universal in saying that Mandelson should not have been appointed
What are the mechanics of Starmer quitting? What does it take?
A procession of Cabinet Ministers? They are all pathetic wimps
A mutiny of MPs? A refusal to pass legislation? There must be a method, even within Labour, to bring down a rotten PM. And my God he is rotten now, and we all know he’s never going to improve. This is it. We either suffer four years of this agony, dogged by scandal (yummygate could run and run by itself) OR he fucks off and we all breathe a sigh of relief
“Starmer appointed Mandelson without proper checks Labour peer appointed on back of flimsy two-page dossier and light questioning”
Telegraph
A couple of decades ago, a friend of mine was hired to work at GCHQ, straight out of uni. This required a background check so thorough that he spent six months of employment twiddling his thumbs, unable to do any actual work. A check in which, it seems, everyone he knew was talked to. He got so fed up wit the wait that the security clearance came through shortly after he left GCHQ to join Acorn. (*)
Yet top jobs seem to be allocated by: "They're a good person, I'll vouch for them."
(*) This is probably enough for some in the know to identify him...
I had the same experience but mate got in and disappeared off the face of the earth.
It’s quite mental that of all the people who were involved with Epstein, the only men who have suffered as a result are three Brits; Prince Andrew, Mandyumyum and Starmer.
Any articles in the NYT about how awful we are compared to the US over our attitude to this matter?
"Mandyumyum" is inspired! Well done!
Well, Yum Yum was one of the Three Little Maids from School.
As The Grand Poobah of PB I approve of posts featuring The Mikado.
Whose head is next on some pretext to be decapitated?
It's Christmas soon so the first person who says Die Hard is a Christmas film.
Mr it never crossed my desk in trouble because nothing crossed his desk……I bet there are a load of tweets from him about Boris not following procedure.
Don’t suppose you would visit santo stefano and pop a couple of paragraphs on here please?
I’ve been wanting to visit for a while and I don’t think it will ever happen.
Ta.
Happy to! Er, what and where is it? Do you mean the famous round Roman church?
If so I have already been there and it is WONDROUS and full of NOOM
Here. AI overview. I like old stuff. It helps me think.
The "Santo Stefano" ancient site refers to a significant Neolithic complex in Oschiri, Sardinia, centered around a large, mysterious rock altar carved with triangular, circular, and square niches and cup-marks. This sacred site also features an underground necropolis with several Domus de Janas, or "fairy houses". The altar's precise function, dating, and the meaning of its carvings remain debated, but it is an important testament to ancient Sardinia's sophisticated stonework and spiritual practices, potentially dating to the Ozieri culture (3500–2700 BCE).
Ooh. I might have a go!
Sardinia is fab for ancient weird stuff. Today I went to Sas Costas
It's yet another of thousands of prehistoric monuments on the island, but inside these 6000 year old rock cut "hypogeum" tombs - built by an even more mysterious culture that came BEFORE the really mysterious Nuragic culture - how many mysterious cultures can you have? Not enough! - there is something special. A motif of inverted stick figures - the capovolti - literally "the inverted men" - are chiselled into the living rock of the largest death chamber
Marked out with chalk, drawn with eerie perspective, as if you are looking down a lane of crucified upside down messiahs, no one knows quite what they symbolise - the passage of souls into the other realm? A dire warning of hideous torture to grave robbers? A depiction of gruesome human sacrifice? The latter is far from impossible, it is thought the Nuragic cultures likely drowned victims in their sacred wells, which puts a disturbing new light on their water worship
You're not meant to go into Sas Costas. The obvious route is locked and requires you to call obscure numbers. But it is quite easy to slip over the fence, do no damage, spook yourself out, and leave. So I did. It makes it all the better that there is no tourist kiosk, with audio guide, and bored Swedish families led by earnest fathers. You have to break in like a Barbagian bandit
Every one on pb should go. You will almost certainly be alone. In the silence. Of the tomb. With the sun Throbbing outside. As you stare at the inverted men
Brrrr
I know that temptation, I went over the wall into Vindolanda at dawn one summer morning. It was very quiet time of day, ideal moment to mull over the millennia.
The archaeologists I bumped into later were a bit miffed but accepted my motives.
Starmer will resign then refuse to leave as his own resignation letter never crossed his desk
Good evening
I think that Starmer, in his haste to cuddle upto Trump , dismissed genuine concerns over Mandelson's connections with Epstein as Mandelson's skills certainly were a benefit but then he was high risk and unfortunately for Starmer, the revelations this week and his endorsement of Mandelson under Badenoch's questioning, has put him in a very difficult place, but was predictable and an error that may well have serious repercussions for him
I also suspect Starmer is largely being played like a puppet by the Blairite wing of the party
A vox pop of Mandelson's former constituency was scathing and virtually universal in saying that Mandelson should not have been appointed
Yes, I’d tend to agree with most of that. It probably seemed like a very clever idea at the time to appoint him to ambassador, but Starmer of all people should surely understand how scandals can simmer quietly for years before exploding in your face when the time’s right. After all that’s how he got Boris.
Mr it never crossed my desk in trouble because nothing crossed his desk……I bet there are a load of tweets from him about Boris not following procedure.
It reminds of that line from Yes Minister.
We haven't found any evidence of wrongdoing because we weren't looking.
I'm starting to think that Newsom might actually have a shot.
CALIFORNIA OFFICIALLY PASSES SB 79, ONE OF THE LARGEST HOUSING BILLS IN STATE HISTORY
- Legalizes multifamily near high-frequency transit statewide - Up to 9 stories when next to major transit, 7-8 stories within ¼ mile, 5-6 up to ½ mile - Min 60–120 units/acre + FAR minimums https://x.com/YIMBYLAND/status/1966659882867655019
That is an idea that has been floated here, isn't it? Building near railways and motorways?
Already happens in London. Imagine the fun if the building at the junction of those two railway lines caught fire?
There's a football ground in that image.
Yes, there is. Also a rugby ground.
Not sure that living between two sets of train tracks is really the best way to do things, but they certainly are going for density on any patch of ground, round here.
“Starmer appointed Mandelson without proper checks Labour peer appointed on back of flimsy two-page dossier and light questioning”
Telegraph
A couple of decades ago, a friend of mine was hired to work at GCHQ, straight out of uni. This required a background check so thorough that he spent six months of employment twiddling his thumbs, unable to do any actual work. A check in which, it seems, everyone he knew was talked to. He got so fed up wit the wait that the security clearance came through shortly after he left GCHQ to join Acorn. (*)
Yet top jobs seem to be allocated by: "They're a good person, I'll vouch for them."
(*) This is probably enough for some in the know to identify him...
I had the same experience but mate got in and disappeared off the face of the earth.
There's an even funnier part to his story. He was raised in a very rural community, and his dad was a prominent person in that community. So over many weeks, his dad had conversations from various people in the village: "Two men came to visit, and they were asking about your son xxx and whether he was a good boy."
He then got a visit himself, from people asking about his son, in a professional capacity. He listened patiently as they asked their questions, then asked if they had noticed that his surname was the same as the surname of the person they were vetting...
He is indeed a muppet of the first water. Is this really the best we can do?
Didn't you opt to sit on your hands in the election? Now you're complaining that Labour aren't up to the job. Sorry David this next 4 years of failure is on you and the other million Tory voters who sat on their hands and watched while Labour got handed a gigantic majority for a tiny number of votes. People like Leon bear some of the responsibility too for getting caught up in that idiotic attitude of "oh the Tories must be punished" without thinking about the consequences of that and voting for Labour knowing how much damage they would inflict on the nation.
I went out and campaigned, had doors shut in my face, got shouted at, sworn at and tried to make sure it wasn't a complete disaster because we all knew what Labour would do with untrammeled power and so it has happened.
I gave Starmer the benefit of the doubt. I honestly and sincerely had absolutely no idea he would be THIS terrible. Who did? Maybe @Casino_Royale
Do I regret my vote? Not really. Inasmuch as I voted with the info available to me. I couldn’t vote Tory because of the last 14 years. Obvs. I was tempted to go reform but then Farage made those weird pro Putin noises at exactly the wrong moment. I despise the Lib Dems
So I thought Why not. He might be surprisingly competent. If anyone can reform the NHS it’s Labour - Tories too scared etc
Oh well
I think it was me, CR and HYFUD warning the rest of you on the centre right not to listen to the mob baying for Tory blood because of Liz Truss and Boris Johnson. If Rishi had taken over two years earlier between him and Hunt the country would have been in a much better place today and I don't think the party would have been wiped out. It was Rishi that turned off the immigration tap, it was Rishi that pushed for the Rwanda scheme and faced off against the liberal wanky judges, it was Rishi that put a halt to the chagos islands surrender. You judged the Tories on the basis of what Boris and Liz Truss did, which is fair, but ultimately they were gone and there's no doubt that Rishi was a better PM than Starmer and Hunt a better Chancellor than Reeves.
I think you and a couple of million soft centre right voters got caught up in the media nonsense about "punishing" the Tories and forgot that the resulting Labour government would be worse in all aspects, especially on immigration and stopping the boats.
Nevertheless it was the Tories, and their members, that got obsessed first with Brexit, then with Johnson, then with the most damaging hard Brexit, and then with Truss. What they suffer now is most wholly deserved.
Water under the bridge. Water under the bridge.
I read tonight on PB a Tory coalition Government is imminent.
Starmer will resign then refuse to leave as his own resignation letter never crossed his desk
Good evening
I think that Starmer, in his haste to cuddle upto Trump , dismissed genuine concerns over Mandelson's connections with Epstein as Mandelson's skills certainly were a benefit but then he was high risk and unfortunately for Starmer, the revelations this week and his endorsement of Mandelson under Badenoch's questioning, has put him in a very difficult place, but was predictable and an error that may well have serious repercussions for him
I also suspect Starmer is largely being played like a puppet by the Blairite wing of the party
A vox pop of Mandelson's former constituency was scathing and virtually universal in saying that Mandelson should not have been appointed
An important question becomes what the usual vetting for an ambassador is.
If the usual vetting process was followed, then Starmer's probably in the clear on that, even if the process is farcically weak. If the process was not followed, or subverted, or ignored, then he is in trouble.
The loons are now claiming 3 million were on the streets of london for the Yaxley-Lennon march.
Quite possible that there were 3 million on the streets of London today (I was). Not sure that counts as being on the march.
Yes, so were we but definitely not on that shitty march. Maybe we were early but I didn't notice it at all. London didn't seem any busier at 1ish than it does on any other weekend day. If that protest got over 200k I'd be shocked. I've been in central London on days with big turnout and it feels busy everywhere, this just didn't.
“Starmer appointed Mandelson without proper checks Labour peer appointed on back of flimsy two-page dossier and light questioning”
Telegraph
A couple of decades ago, a friend of mine was hired to work at GCHQ, straight out of uni. This required a background check so thorough that he spent six months of employment twiddling his thumbs, unable to do any actual work. A check in which, it seems, everyone he knew was talked to. He got so fed up wit the wait that the security clearance came through shortly after he left GCHQ to join Acorn. (*)
Yet top jobs seem to be allocated by: "They're a good person, I'll vouch for them."
(*) This is probably enough for some in the know to identify him...
I had the same experience but mate got in and disappeared off the face of the earth.
There's an even funnier part to his story. He was raised in a very rural community, and his dad was a prominent person in that community. So over many weeks, his dad had conversations from various people in the village: "Two men came to visit, and they were asking about your son xxx and whether he was a good boy."
He then got a visit himself, from people asking about his son, in a professional capacity. He listened patiently as they asked their questions, then asked if they had noticed that his surname was the same as the surname of the person they were vetting...
They had not realised he was xxx's dad.
Sounds odd, having been asked on background for two people I knew they were asking me things with detail I was staggered they could have. A relative is also in that world and I know the depths they went on him and the family.
An important question becomes what the usual vetting for an ambassador is.
If the usual vetting process was followed, then Starmer's probably in the clear on that, even if the process is farcically weak. If the process was not followed, or subverted, or ignored, then he is in trouble.
I would be shocked if in reality it isn’t within the guidance, but riding the line by ensuring the “wrong” questions weren’t asked. Don’t want to break habit of a lifetime and have anything awkward land on his desk.
An important question becomes what the usual vetting for an ambassador is.
If the usual vetting process was followed, then Starmer's probably in the clear on that, even if the process is farcically weak. If the process was not followed, or subverted, or ignored, then he is in trouble.
By not picking a name from the suggested list he's going off-piste anyway isn't he?
Really quite sad to see Starmer turn out to be quite as crap as he has done. It’s a shame because the the British public probably saw Labour as the last chance to *prove* the old system could work. It’s utterly failed
An important question becomes what the usual vetting for an ambassador is.
If the usual vetting process was followed, then Starmer's probably in the clear on that, even if the process is farcically weak. If the process was not followed, or subverted, or ignored, then he is in trouble.
The issue this wasn't a typical hire, normally our man in Washington is a career diplomat who is constantly vetted from previous appointments.
The closest example I can think of is Ed Llewellyn going from being David Cameron's chief of staff to becoming Ambassador to France but he was a former diplomat working for Chris Patten in Hong Kong and Paddy Ashdown in Bosnia before becoming Dave's chief of staff.
Would be incredibly funny if they forced a by-election and Burnham lost it.
If ithe seat is Gorton, every chance Reform wins. Blackley is more complicated demographically, with some middle class pockets in Middleton South like Alkrington, where Burnham is very popular.
EXCLUSIVE: Charlie Kirk assassin Tyler Robinson lived with his transgender partner, sources tell me.
The individual, who is a male transitioning to a female, is fully cooperating with the FBI.
Sources tell me the FBI had texts and other communications between Robinson and the individual that helped FBI authorities solidify that Robinson was indeed the shooter.
The underlying point is that since Care in the Community and whatever is its American counterpart, there have been a lot more mentally ill people left to rot on the streets, and occasionally murder someone. Still, the British government and American insurance companies saved a bunch of money and we got some nice luxury flats at the old hospitals, so there's that. Lethal injections though? Is there a loophole in the 10 Commandments?
The actual reason that the old mad houses went away was that
1) they were brutal, horrible places. Out of sight, out of mind. 2) around the world, people who were aware of it, fought against them. And the endless abuses in them. 3) in most advanced countries laws changed. For example, locking people up for life for being a bit odd is now illegal. 4) the medical profession changed as well. You won’t be able to find doctors to force medication on everyone a bit odd - in The Goode Olde Dayz they simply dosed everyone in the madhouse into compliance. 5) so in the new world, you need serious reasons to lock people up, even more serious reasons to force them to take medication.
Worth noting reports that Trumps thugs are attacking street people with Narcan…
One of the ironies being that the politician who got Care in the Community rolling in the UK was Enoch Powell.
Not especially ironic. In many things he was actually a thoughtful and rather progressive man. Being one of the first from mainstream politics to fall down the immigration/race rat hole destroyed his reputation - justly.
Dwellings in Victorian times were very different to dwellings today, so I'm pretty sure that large mental institutions would also be different. The bad things about them (there were also good things) do not undermine their importance, both then and now.
It’s pretty simple
1) sectioning people is now a serious medico-legal endeavour 2) once locked up, they must be repeatedly assessed to try and see if they can leave. 3) forcibly medicating people is pretty much not a thing. 4) modern, trained doctors won’t change 1-3 on moral grounds
I should add, a big issue is that the patients don’t like the medicines.
My brother-in-law ended up on the really fun stuff for a while. He said that while it helped to be clear headed and not a problem, they made him feel horrible - both feeling his mental condition and side effects. He preferred being off his nut - but stayed on them for his wife’s sake.
There were some pretty nasty physical side effects as well, IIRC.
Comments
Ukrainians and BN(O) [Hong Kong] accounted for 8% of non-EU immigration in YE June 2023. An estimated 80,000 people arrived long-term on these visas, of which 47,000 were BN(O) and 33,000 were Ukrainians.
The highest number of long-term arrivals on the BN(O) scheme were seen in the YE June 2022 (57,000). Those arriving long-term on Ukraine Schemes peaked in the YE December 2022 (109,000). Long-term arrivals from Ukraine have declined and long-term arrivals from BN(O) are now a bigger proportion of Humanitarian route immigration in the YE June 2023.
And, of course, often no housing costs.
Main subjective and probably completely unrepresentative impressions:
- the Unite lot were much more numerous than the Counters
- the Counters were mostly what George Orwell would probably have called the sandal wearing classes. Cockney gammons dominated the Unite lot. The Millwall and West Ham terraces must have been empty today if either team is playing.
- the extremely heavy police presence seemed very effective in keeping the two mobs apart
- both were very well prepared for the intermittent heavy showers
- the huge amount of rubbish left on the streets for the City of Westminster and Southwark to clear up. I suspect that was probably inevitable - all the bins were filled to overflowing so the demonstrators probably gave up trying to be tidy about 1 pm or so. Despite that, my South American friend was very impressed by how clean London is, certainly compared with his own capital city. I had to break it to him that it's not all Kensington, Westminster and the City
- seeing Elon's face filling an oversized screen in Whitehall was surreal and reminded me rather of Big Brother in the 2 Minutes' Hate in the film version of 1984 I've seen. It was also odd seeing Winston Churchill's statue, whose subject fought against fascism but then wanted to campaign in the 1955 election under the slogan "Keep England white" overlooking it all
- also surreal seeing hoards of foreign tourists looking on and obviously not really knowing what to make of it all
- a very different and uglier atmosphere than the dauntless but maudlin atmosphere at the pro-Ukraine demonstration I attended (intentionally this time) in Trafalgar Square in February. Too bad it couldn't be more like that.
“Do you know how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last 10 years?” an audience member asked.
“Too many,” Kirk responded to applause from the crowd.
The attendee informed him that the total was five and continued: “Do you know how many mass shooters there have been in America over the last 10 years?”
“Counting or not counting gang violence?” Kirk replied before, just seconds later, he was struck by the bullet and fell from his chair, prompting the panicked crowd to disperse in terror.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/charlie-kirk-shot-gun-violence-video-utah-b2825263.html
1) they were brutal, horrible places. Out of sight, out of mind.
2) around the world, people who were aware of it, fought against them. And the endless abuses in them.
3) in most advanced countries laws changed. For example, locking people up for life for being a bit odd is now illegal.
4) the medical profession changed as well. You won’t be able to find doctors to force medication on everyone a bit odd - in The Goode Olde Dayz they simply dosed everyone in the madhouse into compliance.
5) so in the new world, you need serious reasons to lock people up, even more serious reasons to force them to take medication.
Worth noting reports that Trumps thugs are attacking street people with Narcan…
Reporting on it didn’t happen because of the known epic nastiness of Mandelson towards those he regarded as “enemies”
I read tonight on PB a Tory coalition Government is imminent.
Kemi however will be turfed out I think, after May.
Reform only have 2 left to try out as leader of their party though so they should be able to win that particular race
If so I have already been there and it is WONDROUS and full of NOOM
https://x.com/europeanunity1/status/1966839579304194119?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
The "Santo Stefano" ancient site refers to a significant Neolithic complex in Oschiri, Sardinia, centered around a large, mysterious rock altar carved with triangular, circular, and square niches and cup-marks. This sacred site also features an underground necropolis with several Domus de Janas, or "fairy houses". The altar's precise function, dating, and the meaning of its carvings remain debated, but it is an important testament to ancient Sardinia's sophisticated stonework and spiritual practices, potentially dating to the Ozieri culture (3500–2700 BCE).
Glad to see you are all keeping the debates running in the PB tradition. For what it's worth my take is that Labour are struggling badly of course, but the Tories won't be forgiven for 14 years mismanagement any time soon, if ever.
Far too soon to say what the outcome of the next election to be. Personally I expect (and certainly hope) that Reform's bubble will burst before then.
Starmer won't be ousted until 2028, and then only if the polls remain dire. You're welcome ;-)
Keep the debates going!
https://x.com/romanov_filipp/status/1966898440233013274
The footage shows two 🇷🇴Romanian Air Force F-16s chasing a 🇷🇺Russian Shahed drone over Tulcea County, which borders 🇺🇦Odesa Oblast.
The fighters escorted the drone until it returned to Odesa Oblast. There were no attempts to destroy it.
https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1966921983956058415
It's a good job PB has no-one like that, but perhaps we really are a care in the community site.
Sardinia is fab for ancient weird stuff. Today I went to Sas Costas
It's yet another of thousands of prehistoric monuments on the island, but inside these 6000 year old rock cut "hypogeum" tombs - built by an even more mysterious culture that came BEFORE the really mysterious Nuragic culture - how many mysterious cultures can you have? Not enough! - there is something special. A motif of inverted stick figures - the capovolti - literally "the inverted men" - are chiselled into the living rock of the largest death chamber
Marked out with chalk, drawn with eerie perspective, as if you are looking down a lane of crucified upside down messiahs, no one knows quite what they symbolise - the passage of souls into the other realm? A dire warning of hideous torture to grave robbers? A depiction of gruesome human sacrifice? The latter is far from impossible, it is thought the Nuragic cultures likely drowned victims in their sacred wells, which puts a disturbing new light on their water worship
You're not meant to go into Sas Costas. The obvious route is locked and requires you to call obscure numbers. But it is quite easy to slip over the fence, do no damage, spook yourself out, and leave. So I did. It makes it all the better that there is no tourist kiosk, with audio guide, and bored Swedish families led by earnest fathers. You have to break in like a Barbagian bandit
Every one on pb should go. You will almost certainly be alone. In the silence. Of the tomb. With the sun Throbbing outside. As you stare at the inverted men
Brrrr
“Starmer appointed Mandelson without proper checks
Labour peer appointed on back of flimsy two-page dossier and light questioning”
Telegraph
Edit - can see @Leon beat me to it.
Hes such a fucking useless gimp
Yet top jobs seem to be allocated by: "They're a good person, I'll vouch for them."
(*) This is probably enough for some in the know to identify him...
It’s quite mental that of all the people who were involved with Epstein, the only men who have suffered as a result are three Brits; Prince Andrew, Mandyumyum and Starmer.
Any articles in the NYT about how awful we are compared to the US over our attitude to this matter?
https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1966820737777308004
What’s more, we have 18,000 new Epstein emails to come. How many will involve the Earl of Yumminess, British Ambassador to Pedo Island? Appointed by Skyr Toolmakersson?
I am raising my odds of Starmer quitting over this from 35% to 41%
"The greatest lie of our time
Is pretending that Hitler's National Socialists.
Were 'right wing'. All Socialists are Left Wing."
FINISH HIM
I read yesterday that they have 40k troops on that border now. Violence has to be a real possibility.
A procession of Cabinet Ministers? They are all pathetic wimps
A mutiny of MPs? A refusal to pass legislation? There must be a method, even within Labour, to bring down a rotten PM. And my God he is rotten now, and we all know he’s never going to improve. This is it. We either suffer four years of this agony, dogged by scandal (yummygate could run and run by itself) OR he fucks off and we all breathe a sigh of relief
Also today that Orange [redacted] calling the invasion of Ukraine Biden and Zelenskyy's war and repeating Putin propaganda is also pissing me off.
Question is, does King Andy have time to get his ducks in a row?
I guess dumbfuckland is now telling itself that Elon couldn’t possibly have done a Nazi salute because Adolf was a socialist.
Right now, Lammy should be favourite as next PM.
I think that Starmer, in his haste to cuddle upto Trump , dismissed genuine concerns over Mandelson's connections with Epstein as Mandelson's skills certainly were a benefit but then he was high risk and unfortunately for Starmer, the revelations this week and his endorsement of Mandelson under Badenoch's questioning, has put him in a very difficult place, but was predictable and an error that may well have serious repercussions for him
I also suspect Starmer is largely being played like a puppet by the Blairite wing of the party
A vox pop of Mandelson's former constituency was scathing and virtually universal in saying that Mandelson should not have been appointed
See the 1994 budget.
The archaeologists I bumped into later were a bit miffed but accepted my motives.
Worth the bollocking.
Clue it not Robinson's lot
"The greatest lie of our time, is pretending that Hitler's National Socialists perpetrated the Holocaust."
EXCL: Secret plot to get Andy Burnham a seat in Parliament so he can challenge Keir Starmer for No10 revealed!
Labour rebels dubbed the "Manchester Mafia" want Andrew Gwynne to give up his seat for the King of the North.
One insider says: "They are calling it the Etihad coup"
The Sun on Sunday
https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/1966944480445297017?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg
We haven't found any evidence of wrongdoing because we weren't looking.
Not sure that living between two sets of train tracks is really the best way to do things, but they certainly are going for density on any patch of ground, round here.
He then got a visit himself, from people asking about his son, in a professional capacity. He listened patiently as they asked their questions, then asked if they had noticed that his surname was the same as the surname of the person they were vetting...
They had not realised he was xxx's dad.
But first, a wild five minutes.
If the usual vetting process was followed, then Starmer's probably in the clear on that, even if the process is farcically weak. If the process was not followed, or subverted, or ignored, then he is in trouble.
Laurence Fox
@LozzaFox
·
4h
Enough people took to the streets of London today to change everything.
I have never seen anything like it.
All the power is with the people now.
https://x.com/LozzaFox/status/1966888257029124182
I’ve no idea where we head off to from here
The closest example I can think of is Ed Llewellyn going from being David Cameron's chief of staff to becoming Ambassador to France but he was a former diplomat working for Chris Patten in Hong Kong and Paddy Ashdown in Bosnia before becoming Dave's chief of staff.
1) sectioning people is now a serious medico-legal endeavour
2) once locked up, they must be repeatedly assessed to try and see if they can leave.
3) forcibly medicating people is pretty much not a thing.
4) modern, trained doctors won’t change 1-3 on moral grounds
I should add, a big issue is that the patients don’t like the medicines.
My brother-in-law ended up on the really fun stuff for a while. He said that while it helped to be clear headed and not a problem, they made him feel horrible - both feeling his mental condition and side effects. He preferred being off his nut - but stayed on them for his wife’s sake.
There were some pretty nasty physical side effects as well, IIRC.