Is it wrong to think rape is bad even without a racial motive (do they mean racially motivated or aggravated)? It is also lazy reporting from the Guardian to have phoned every Sikh MP they can think of. The police treating it as an ‘isolated incident’ also seems a bit off – surely both racists and rapists are likely to be repeat offenders? (Perhaps it is a term of art that I have misunderstood.) Anyway, presumably they have both cctv and DNA evidence so arrests should be forthcoming.
It is an odd one. It’s hard enough understanding rape for sexual gratification, but rape as a weapon of violence where the main aim is to hurt the woman is beyond comprehension.
On the contrary, it is the usual motive for rape. Rape is a violent assault driven by misogyny.
Is it wrong to think rape is bad even without a racial motive (do they mean racially motivated or aggravated)? It is also lazy reporting from the Guardian to have phoned every Sikh MP they can think of. The police treating it as an ‘isolated incident’ also seems a bit off – surely both racists and rapists are likely to be repeat offenders? (Perhaps it is a term of art that I have misunderstood.) Anyway, presumably they have both cctv and DNA evidence so arrests should be forthcoming.
JohnL, no, its not wrong and you are right to point this out. I saw this post and had a similar reaction, I totally despair of how these horrific sexual attacks on women have been reduced to a tit for tat focus on the ethnicity of the perpetrators rather than the awful long term impact on the victims. Unknown sexual predators of all persuasions ultimately seek out any opportunity to carry out random attacks on women and girls which while different is equally as horrific and damaging to their victims as those that are known to the victims and groom them first before inflicting the same life long traumatic damage.
+1 and you can bet that lumpen knuckleheads like our Leon won’t be spending all day posting and tweeting about this one.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
Ah, for the old days when comments were numbered, and PBers could simply give the number of whichever post they were replying to, rather than having to quote them in full, as now. This worked quite tidily until mid-morning when OGH would delete his own post from the start of the thread, thus buggering up all the references.
Is it wrong to think rape is bad even without a racial motive (do they mean racially motivated or aggravated)? It is also lazy reporting from the Guardian to have phoned every Sikh MP they can think of. The police treating it as an ‘isolated incident’ also seems a bit off – surely both racists and rapists are likely to be repeat offenders? (Perhaps it is a term of art that I have misunderstood.) Anyway, presumably they have both cctv and DNA evidence so arrests should be forthcoming.
It is an odd one. It’s hard enough understanding rape for sexual gratification, but rape as a weapon of violence where the main aim is to hurt the woman is beyond comprehension.
On the contrary, it is the usual motive for rape. Rape is a violent assault driven by misogyny.
It may be splitting hairs, but I thought it was more about demonstrating power than hurting the woman?
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
Backing Powell is starting to look like easy money?
Yes but people said that about Bridget Phillipson when she was favourite. Electing Lucy Powell is a safe way to send a message to Keir Starmer to get his act together (and possibly get rid of Morgan McSweeney). She is seen as a Burnham ally and a champion of the north-west against a London-dominated leadership. That might be a double-edged sword as most members are not from the north-west, and her initial characterisation of discussing rape gangs as dog-whistled racism might be a weakness if her opponents run with it.
The important thing is both women went to Oxford which is what counts.
Is it wrong to think rape is bad even without a racial motive (do they mean racially motivated or aggravated)? It is also lazy reporting from the Guardian to have phoned every Sikh MP they can think of. The police treating it as an ‘isolated incident’ also seems a bit off – surely both racists and rapists are likely to be repeat offenders? (Perhaps it is a term of art that I have misunderstood.) Anyway, presumably they have both cctv and DNA evidence so arrests should be forthcoming.
It is an odd one. It’s hard enough understanding rape for sexual gratification, but rape as a weapon of violence where the main aim is to hurt the woman is beyond comprehension.
On the contrary, it is the usual motive for rape. Rape is a violent assault driven by misogyny.
It may be splitting hairs, but I thought it was more about demonstrating power than hurting the woman?
O’Brien: How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Powell first found fame by saying 'In the real world, where I live, unlike where you live, Andrew.'
To Andrew Neil. Live on air.
This did not end well for her.
(It's also reasonable to point out that Andrew Neil came from a somewhat humbler background than she did, so it was simply not true.)
If she is the best Labour can put up in this contest, they're completely fucked.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Powell first found fame by saying 'In the real world, where I live, unlike where you live, Andrew.'
To Andrew Neil. Live on air.
This did not end well for her.
(It's also reasonable to point out that Andrew Neil came from a somewhat humbler background than she did, so it was simply not true.)
If she is the best Labour can put up in this contest, they're completely fucked.
I quite like Powell, but Phillipson is the better candidate. She is a much more certain and articulate speaker, and has a hard edge that I just dont see in Powell. Anyone thinking that she would be Starmer's puppet is likely to get a very rude awakening. I think Starmer is a bit afraid of her.
I don't have a vote in the contest, but Mrs Foxy does.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Andy Burham is Lucy Powell's biggest cheerleader so I assume you accept Andy Burnham is Starmer's biggest real threat, not this forum
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Might be worth checking what the union leaders in the now banned smoked filled back rooms have decided at the recent TUC, I had one of my best ever results on a single long term bet I almost forgot about thanks to a late night Skynews blog post by Jon Craig who was at the TUC while the then leaders plotted who would be the best stop the Blairite David Milliband candidate. He reported that they had decided their best candidate was Ed Miliband and I bet accordingly at excellent odds that way out on the back of his report. I still remember being in the car with fitaloon and our lads when the news came through of the result of the Labour leadership contest and loudly shouting yes before informing fitaloon that I had just won a very nice three figure sum off the back of that bet.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Powell first found fame by saying 'In the real world, where I live, unlike where you live, Andrew.'
To Andrew Neil. Live on air.
This did not end well for her.
(It's also reasonable to point out that Andrew Neil came from a somewhat humbler background than she did, so it was simply not true.)
If she is the best Labour can put up in this contest, they're completely fucked.
Of the two Phillipson is the better bet. Phillipson seems a better communicator. Powell is just an empty void.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Andy Burham is Lucy Powell's biggest cheerleader so I assume you accept Andy Burnham is Starmer's biggest real threat, not this forum
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Andy Burham is Lucy Powell's biggest cheerleader so I assume you accept Andy Burnham is Starmer's biggest real threat, not this forum
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Why shouldn’t people opposed to this shambolic,govt want to see the back of It ? I’m not sure any change of govt to any other party or coalition would improve the country at the moment.
Quite frankly they can elect either Powell or Phillipson, it won’t change much for them until they start, if they can, delivering real improvements for people in their lives in the country as opposed to relying on MPs and tame pro govt social media accounts telling us how great they are.
Is it wrong to think rape is bad even without a racial motive (do they mean racially motivated or aggravated)? It is also lazy reporting from the Guardian to have phoned every Sikh MP they can think of. The police treating it as an ‘isolated incident’ also seems a bit off – surely both racists and rapists are likely to be repeat offenders? (Perhaps it is a term of art that I have misunderstood.) Anyway, presumably they have both cctv and DNA evidence so arrests should be forthcoming.
JohnL, no, its not wrong and you are right to point this out. I saw this post and had a similar reaction, I totally despair of how these horrific sexual attacks on women have been reduced to a tit for tat focus on the ethnicity of the perpetrators rather than the awful long term impact on the victims. Unknown sexual predators of all persuasions ultimately seek out any opportunity to carry out random attacks on women and girls which while different is equally as horrific and damaging to their victims as those that are known to the victims and groom them first before inflicting the same life long traumatic damage.
I posted a link to the article, that is all. But am I wrong in inferring that neither of you read it before commenting ?
It’s moderately clear, I think, that it wasn’t the Guardian that contacted “every Sikh MP that they can think of”; rather that it’s the MPs who brought the story to them.
Because of the alleged motive. .. The incident is alleged to have taken place on Tuesday morning in Oldbury, close to Birmingham. A Sikh community group said it had spoken to the woman and her family and that the words the attackers said were: “You don’t belong in this country, get out.”..
Anyway, I really don’t want to start a fight over a story I saw while being insomniac. Good morning to you both.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Andy Burham is Lucy Powell's biggest cheerleader so I assume you accept Andy Burnham is Starmer's biggest real threat, not this forum
It's very hard indeed to see Burnham as a threat. He's outside Parliament and the barriers to his return are actually pretty formidable. He would have to find a seat Labour could win, and then win it, and resign as Mayor to take it up which would neutralise his power base.
I suspect name recognition, a lack of association with the Cabinet and wishful thinking are driving talk about his return, rather than a realistic assessment of the possibility.
Which is why I say again the one we should be watching is David Lammy. He's consistently underestimated by everyone but he's quietly manoeuvred himself into an extremely powerful position.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Andy Burham is Lucy Powell's biggest cheerleader so I assume you accept Andy Burnham is Starmer's biggest real threat, not this forum
It's very hard indeed to see Burnham as a threat. He's outside Parliament and the barriers to his return are actually pretty formidable. He would have to find a seat Labour could win, and then win it, and resign as Mayor to take it up which would neutralise his power base.
I suspect name recognition, a lack of association with the Cabinet and wishful thinking are driving talk about his return, rather than a realistic assessment of the possibility.
Which is why I say again the one we should be watching is David Lammy. He's consistently underestimated by everyone but he's quietly manoeuvred himself into an extremely powerful position.
Are you trolling Elon and Tommy? That would send them bonkers*!
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Why shouldn’t people opposed to this shambolic,govt want to see the back of It ? I’m not sure any change of govt to any other party or coalition would improve the country at the moment.
Quite frankly they can elect either Powell or Phillipson, it won’t change much for them until they start, if they can, delivering real improvements for people in their lives in the country as opposed to relying on MPs and tame pro govt social media accounts telling us how great they are.
The annoying thing is there's lots of boring, low-hanging fruit that could be plucked fairly easily just by tidying up government (and in some cases, commercial) procedures that are simply outdated. For example, changing rules on pursuing e-bikes so they can be followed by drones - that would be a major disaster for phone snatchers. Or reform of the court system to speed it up and make things cheaper, which has been talked about but not delivered. Or a massive clampdown on fraudulent bills by utility companies, which is an absolute scourge affecting hundreds of thousands of people every year.
You would have thought Starmer, of all people, would be well-placed to do that. And indeed, often he has made encouraging noises, as in abolishing OFWAT and making greater use of magistrates' courts. But so far, limited progress.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Andy Burham is Lucy Powell's biggest cheerleader so I assume you accept Andy Burnham is Starmer's biggest real threat, not this forum
It's very hard indeed to see Burnham as a threat. He's outside Parliament and the barriers to his return are actually pretty formidable. He would have to find a seat Labour could win, and then win it, and resign as Mayor to take it up which would neutralise his power base.
I suspect name recognition, a lack of association with the Cabinet and wishful thinking are driving talk about his return, rather than a realistic assessment of the possibility.
Which is why I say again the one we should be watching is David Lammy. He's consistently underestimated by everyone but he's quietly manoeuvred himself into an extremely powerful position.
Are you trolling Elon and Tommy? That would send them bonkers*!
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Powell first found fame by saying 'In the real world, where I live, unlike where you live, Andrew.'
To Andrew Neil. Live on air.
This did not end well for her.
(It's also reasonable to point out that Andrew Neil came from a somewhat humbler background than she did, so it was simply not true.)
If she is the best Labour can put up in this contest, they're completely fucked.
Given their respective professions, do either inhabit the real world ?
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Andy Burham is Lucy Powell's biggest cheerleader so I assume you accept Andy Burnham is Starmer's biggest real threat, not this forum
It's very hard indeed to see Burnham as a threat. He's outside Parliament and the barriers to his return are actually pretty formidable. He would have to find a seat Labour could win, and then win it, and resign as Mayor to take it up which would neutralise his power base.
I suspect name recognition, a lack of association with the Cabinet and wishful thinking are driving talk about his return, rather than a realistic assessment of the possibility.
Which is why I say again the one we should be watching is David Lammy. He's consistently underestimated by everyone but he's quietly manoeuvred himself into an extremely powerful position.
Are you trolling Elon and Tommy? That would send them bonkers*!
* OK, OK, in Leon's case even more bonkers.
Elon or Leon? Or both?
Freudian slip.
I was hoping you wouldn't be so quick off the mark.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Might be worth checking what the union leaders in the now banned smoked filled back rooms have decided at the recent TUC, I had one of my best ever results on a single long term bet I almost forgot about thanks to a late night Skynews blog post by Jon Craig who was at the TUC while the then leaders plotted who would be the best stop the Blairite David Milliband candidate. He reported that they had decided their best candidate was Ed Miliband and I bet accordingly at excellent odds that way out on the back of his report. I still remember being in the car with fitaloon and our lads when the news came through of the result of the Labour leadership contest and loudly shouting yes before informing fitaloon that I had just won a very nice three figure sum off the back of that bet.
Good morning, everyone.
Miss Fitalass, I had a nice start to the 2023 season backing Alonso for a podium after hearing Ted Kravitz comment saying how good the Aston Martin looked (not to mention multiple good Lib Dem long shots in the 2024 election thanks to tips here). It's always nice when those come in.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Why shouldn’t people opposed to this shambolic,govt want to see the back of It ? I’m not sure any change of govt to any other party or coalition would improve the country at the moment.
Quite frankly they can elect either Powell or Phillipson, it won’t change much for them until they start, if they can, delivering real improvements for people in their lives in the country as opposed to relying on MPs and tame pro govt social media accounts telling us how great they are.
The annoying thing is there's lots of boring, low-hanging fruit that could be plucked fairly easily just by tidying up government (and in some cases, commercial) procedures that are simply outdated. For example, changing rules on pursuing e-bikes so they can be followed by drones - that would be a major disaster for phone snatchers. Or reform of the court system to speed it up and make things cheaper, which has been talked about but not delivered. Or a massive clampdown on fraudulent bills by utility companies, which is an absolute scourge affecting hundreds of thousands of people every year.
You would have thought Starmer, of all people, would be well-placed to do that. And indeed, often he has made encouraging noises, as in abolishing OFWAT and making greater use of magistrates' courts. But so far, limited progress.
Frankly, who wants to do this boring governing thing when you can emote about things you can't actually do anything about? It's deeply unfashionable.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Why shouldn’t people opposed to this shambolic,govt want to see the back of It ? I’m not sure any change of govt to any other party or coalition would improve the country at the moment.
Quite frankly they can elect either Powell or Phillipson, it won’t change much for them until they start, if they can, delivering real improvements for people in their lives in the country as opposed to relying on MPs and tame pro govt social media accounts telling us how great they are.
The annoying thing is there's lots of boring, low-hanging fruit that could be plucked fairly easily just by tidying up government (and in some cases, commercial) procedures that are simply outdated. For example, changing rules on pursuing e-bikes so they can be followed by drones - that would be a major disaster for phone snatchers. Or reform of the court system to speed it up and make things cheaper, which has been talked about but not delivered. Or a massive clampdown on fraudulent bills by utility companies, which is an absolute scourge affecting hundreds of thousands of people every year.
You would have thought Starmer, of all people, would be well-placed to do that. And indeed, often he has made encouraging noises, as in abolishing OFWAT and making greater use of magistrates' courts. But so far, limited progress.
Frankly, who wants to do this boring governing thing when you can emote about things you can't actually do anything about? It's deeply unfashionable.
And of course that's why so many things are a bit shit.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Why shouldn’t people opposed to this shambolic,govt want to see the back of It ? I’m not sure any change of govt to any other party or coalition would improve the country at the moment.
Quite frankly they can elect either Powell or Phillipson, it won’t change much for them until they start, if they can, delivering real improvements for people in their lives in the country as opposed to relying on MPs and tame pro govt social media accounts telling us how great they are.
The annoying thing is there's lots of boring, low-hanging fruit that could be plucked fairly easily just by tidying up government (and in some cases, commercial) procedures that are simply outdated. For example, changing rules on pursuing e-bikes so they can be followed by drones - that would be a major disaster for phone snatchers. Or reform of the court system to speed it up and make things cheaper, which has been talked about but not delivered. Or a massive clampdown on fraudulent bills by utility companies, which is an absolute scourge affecting hundreds of thousands of people every year.
You would have thought Starmer, of all people, would be well-placed to do that. And indeed, often he has made encouraging noises, as in abolishing OFWAT and making greater use of magistrates' courts. But so far, limited progress.
Frankly, who wants to do this boring governing thing when you can emote about things you can't actually do anything about? It's deeply unfashionable.
Over time, I appreciate emperors like Antoninus Pius and Anastasius ever more. No flashy buildings, no military glory, but they governed very competently for decades.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Andy Burham is Lucy Powell's biggest cheerleader so I assume you accept Andy Burnham is Starmer's biggest real threat, not this forum
It's very hard indeed to see Burnham as a threat. He's outside Parliament and the barriers to his return are actually pretty formidable. He would have to find a seat Labour could win, and then win it, and resign as Mayor to take it up which would neutralise his power base.
I suspect name recognition, a lack of association with the Cabinet and wishful thinking are driving talk about his return, rather than a realistic assessment of the possibility.
Which is why I say again the one we should be watching is David Lammy. He's consistently underestimated by everyone but he's quietly manoeuvred himself into an extremely powerful position.
My understanding is that Starmer could block Burnham’s candidacy for any by-election through the national executive. And this would be easy for him to justify - you were elevated for a term and you should jolly well serve it. An entirely selfless position of course.
Agreed that Lammy as Deputy PM holds some serious cards if Starmer’s downfall is rapid. But I don’t know he’s got the chops to play the game if this goes on until 2028 but who can say.
Cooper seems be overlooked by most but perhaps she’s the Yes Prime Minister candidate.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Why shouldn’t people opposed to this shambolic,govt want to see the back of It ? I’m not sure any change of govt to any other party or coalition would improve the country at the moment.
Quite frankly they can elect either Powell or Phillipson, it won’t change much for them until they start, if they can, delivering real improvements for people in their lives in the country as opposed to relying on MPs and tame pro govt social media accounts telling us how great they are.
The annoying thing is there's lots of boring, low-hanging fruit that could be plucked fairly easily just by tidying up government (and in some cases, commercial) procedures that are simply outdated. For example, changing rules on pursuing e-bikes so they can be followed by drones - that would be a major disaster for phone snatchers. Or reform of the court system to speed it up and make things cheaper, which has been talked about but not delivered. Or a massive clampdown on fraudulent bills by utility companies, which is an absolute scourge affecting hundreds of thousands of people every year.
You would have thought Starmer, of all people, would be well-placed to do that. And indeed, often he has made encouraging noises, as in abolishing OFWAT and making greater use of magistrates' courts. But so far, limited progress.
To a lawyer, more complex laws and rules are better.
For a true believer in The Process State, even more so. Just one million more pages until we reach Nirvana…
Humans are non-linear and the law is deliberately linear. Which is why law without discretion and human judgement is oppressive.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Why shouldn’t people opposed to this shambolic,govt want to see the back of It ? I’m not sure any change of govt to any other party or coalition would improve the country at the moment.
Quite frankly they can elect either Powell or Phillipson, it won’t change much for them until they start, if they can, delivering real improvements for people in their lives in the country as opposed to relying on MPs and tame pro govt social media accounts telling us how great they are.
The annoying thing is there's lots of boring, low-hanging fruit that could be plucked fairly easily just by tidying up government (and in some cases, commercial) procedures that are simply outdated. For example, changing rules on pursuing e-bikes so they can be followed by drones - that would be a major disaster for phone snatchers. Or reform of the court system to speed it up and make things cheaper, which has been talked about but not delivered. Or a massive clampdown on fraudulent bills by utility companies, which is an absolute scourge affecting hundreds of thousands of people every year.
You would have thought Starmer, of all people, would be well-placed to do that. And indeed, often he has made encouraging noises, as in abolishing OFWAT and making greater use of magistrates' courts. But so far, limited progress.
Back in the days of early COVID when PBers picked up newly appointed LOTO Starmer's hamfisted indecision in the face of Prime Minister Boris Johnson's deft management of the crisis, the writing was on the wall then that even the simple stuff would be difficult.
I am not sure what it is about Starmer but he has been reviled by media and PBers alike since his elevation to LOTO. Even if he were "to get all the big calls right" or produce "the most Conservative budget since 1986" would he get any credit?
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Why shouldn’t people opposed to this shambolic,govt want to see the back of It ? I’m not sure any change of govt to any other party or coalition would improve the country at the moment.
Quite frankly they can elect either Powell or Phillipson, it won’t change much for them until they start, if they can, delivering real improvements for people in their lives in the country as opposed to relying on MPs and tame pro govt social media accounts telling us how great they are.
The annoying thing is there's lots of boring, low-hanging fruit that could be plucked fairly easily just by tidying up government (and in some cases, commercial) procedures that are simply outdated. For example, changing rules on pursuing e-bikes so they can be followed by drones - that would be a major disaster for phone snatchers. Or reform of the court system to speed it up and make things cheaper, which has been talked about but not delivered. Or a massive clampdown on fraudulent bills by utility companies, which is an absolute scourge affecting hundreds of thousands of people every year.
You would have thought Starmer, of all people, would be well-placed to do that. And indeed, often he has made encouraging noises, as in abolishing OFWAT and making greater use of magistrates' courts. But so far, limited progress.
Frankly, who wants to do this boring governing thing when you can emote about things you can't actually do anything about? It's deeply unfashionable.
You say "fashionable", others say "democratic will of the people".
One of Starmer's problems, and one of the reasons some are looking longingly at Andy from Manchester, is that SKS doesn't emote. I suspect that's why he takes 24 hours too long to come to the right conclusion on many issues (see Rayner and Mandy for two examples of many.)
I'm all for incremental improvements, especially after the chaos of the last decade. But it can be a bit Cones Hotline.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Why shouldn’t people opposed to this shambolic,govt want to see the back of It ? I’m not sure any change of govt to any other party or coalition would improve the country at the moment.
Quite frankly they can elect either Powell or Phillipson, it won’t change much for them until they start, if they can, delivering real improvements for people in their lives in the country as opposed to relying on MPs and tame pro govt social media accounts telling us how great they are.
The annoying thing is there's lots of boring, low-hanging fruit that could be plucked fairly easily just by tidying up government (and in some cases, commercial) procedures that are simply outdated. For example, changing rules on pursuing e-bikes so they can be followed by drones - that would be a major disaster for phone snatchers. Or reform of the court system to speed it up and make things cheaper, which has been talked about but not delivered. Or a massive clampdown on fraudulent bills by utility companies, which is an absolute scourge affecting hundreds of thousands of people every year.
You would have thought Starmer, of all people, would be well-placed to do that. And indeed, often he has made encouraging noises, as in abolishing OFWAT and making greater use of magistrates' courts. But so far, limited progress.
Frankly, who wants to do this boring governing thing when you can emote about things you can't actually do anything about? It's deeply unfashionable.
You say "fashionable", others say "democratic will of the people".
One of Starmer's problems, and one of the reasons some are looking longingly at Andy from Manchester, is that SKS doesn't emote. I suspect that's why he takes 24 hours too long to come to the right conclusion on many issues (see Rayner and Mandy for two examples of many.)
I'm all for incremental improvements, especially after the chaos of the last decade. But it can be a bit Cones Hotline.
Delivered regularly and often, they add up. Little sign of that so far.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Andy Burham is Lucy Powell's biggest cheerleader so I assume you accept Andy Burnham is Starmer's biggest real threat, not this forum
It's very hard indeed to see Burnham as a threat. He's outside Parliament and the barriers to his return are actually pretty formidable. He would have to find a seat Labour could win, and then win it, and resign as Mayor to take it up which would neutralise his power base.
I suspect name recognition, a lack of association with the Cabinet and wishful thinking are driving talk about his return, rather than a realistic assessment of the possibility.
Which is why I say again the one we should be watching is David Lammy. He's consistently underestimated by everyone but he's quietly manoeuvred himself into an extremely powerful position.
My understanding is that Starmer could block Burnham’s candidacy for any by-election through the national executive. And this would be easy for him to justify - you were elevated for a term and you should jolly well serve it. An entirely selfless position of course.
Agreed that Lammy as Deputy PM holds some serious cards if Starmer’s downfall is rapid. But I don’t know he’s got the chops to play the game if this goes on until 2028 but who can say.
Cooper seems be overlooked by most but perhaps she’s the Yes Prime Minister candidate.
I think it far simpler than that. The Deputy Leadership contest is the succession planning for Starmer.
No other candidate will have a mandate,
Phillipson is 38 on BFX and Powell 75 for next PM on BFX now.
Daily Mail - 'Starmer cried: 'You're supposed to be protecting me'. The showdown between PM and key aide that's the talk of Westminster'
"According to the Whitehall grapevine, it was the moment that growing tensions between the two most senior men in the British Government finally exploded into the open.
'You are supposed to protect me from things like this!' a furious Sir Keir Starmer is said to have bellowed at Morgan McSweeney, the man dubbed The Real Deputy Prime Minister.
'That's exactly what I was trying to do!' Mr McSweeney roared back.
The extraordinary exchange – relayed to The Mail on Sunday by a highly placed source – came after Sir Keir returned to No10 on Wednesday following his Commons mauling over Peter Mandelson's links to paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
No 10 denies the encounter took place as described – and even tried to deny that chief of staff Mr McSweeney was in the country at the time, before backtracking.
But what is not in question is that the Mandelson scandal has turned into a full-blown political crisis which could lead to the end of Starmer's premiership.
Despairing Labour MPs are looking to Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham for salvation, with Lucy Powell running as his 'proxy' in the deputy leadership election.
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
Why shouldn’t people opposed to this shambolic,govt want to see the back of It ? I’m not sure any change of govt to any other party or coalition would improve the country at the moment.
Quite frankly they can elect either Powell or Phillipson, it won’t change much for them until they start, if they can, delivering real improvements for people in their lives in the country as opposed to relying on MPs and tame pro govt social media accounts telling us how great they are.
The annoying thing is there's lots of boring, low-hanging fruit that could be plucked fairly easily just by tidying up government (and in some cases, commercial) procedures that are simply outdated. For example, changing rules on pursuing e-bikes so they can be followed by drones - that would be a major disaster for phone snatchers. Or reform of the court system to speed it up and make things cheaper, which has been talked about but not delivered. Or a massive clampdown on fraudulent bills by utility companies, which is an absolute scourge affecting hundreds of thousands of people every year.
You would have thought Starmer, of all people, would be well-placed to do that. And indeed, often he has made encouraging noises, as in abolishing OFWAT and making greater use of magistrates' courts. But so far, limited progress.
Frankly, who wants to do this boring governing thing when you can emote about things you can't actually do anything about? It's deeply unfashionable.
You say "fashionable", others say "democratic will of the people".
One of Starmer's problems, and one of the reasons some are looking longingly at Andy from Manchester, is that SKS doesn't emote. I suspect that's why he takes 24 hours too long to come to the right conclusion on many issues (see Rayner and Mandy for two examples of many.)
I'm all for incremental improvements, especially after the chaos of the last decade. But it can be a bit Cones Hotline.
Delivered regularly and often, they add up. Little sign of that so far.
Being charitable, a lot of the government's year 1 successes have been defusing the time bombs that the last lot left ticking- prison spaces, for example.
But you never get political credit for solving problems only the experts know about, there have been cock-ups a-plenty and that justification doesn't work as well on year two.
Listening to the hand wringing this morning is unbearable. There wasn't a right wing commentator who didn't think appointing Mandy was a masterstroke .....who better to get a deal with an unscrupulous charlatan than one of our own......' Nod nod wink wink' ........
The only ones I remember being sickened were the Corbynites... who surprise surpise are not well represented on the BBC (or PB) this morning....
Comments
He was wearing a t-shirt with the slogan "What would Orwell think?"
Orwell was shot in the neck while fighting against Facism in Spain.
https://skywriter.blue/pages/did:plc:ji5kbwpmuh5y6rmjpvl545xm/post/3lyqtmq6ejk2j
Ignorance is strength indeed!
The important thing is both women went to Oxford which is what counts.
Winston: By making him suffer.
I think Phillipson will win comfortably and have bet accordingly.
Politically these is little between her and Powell, both being soft left. Phillipson is the better speaker. Here she is at the #TUC last week:
https://www.youtube.com/live/8GRutRRkLc4?si=dygUjELbDJtY65Tc
I note that those cheerleading Powell on here want to bring down the government. I don't think that will be the motivation of Labour members. Neither do I think that is the purpose of Powell!
To Andrew Neil. Live on air.
This did not end well for her.
(It's also reasonable to point out that Andrew Neil came from a somewhat humbler background than she did, so it was simply not true.)
If she is the best Labour can put up in this contest, they're completely fucked.
Even Welsh Labour are disowning Starmer
Not that it will help them next May
BBC News - Welsh Labour set apart from UK party, says Morgan
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cq6574mqm5eo
I don't have a vote in the contest, but Mrs Foxy does.
POTY nailed on.
I dont think Burnham is a threat to Starmer.
Quite frankly they can elect either Powell or Phillipson, it won’t change much for them until they start, if they can, delivering real improvements for people in their lives in the country as opposed to relying on MPs and tame pro govt social media accounts telling us how great they are.
But am I wrong in inferring that neither of you read it before commenting ?
It’s moderately clear, I think, that it wasn’t the Guardian that contacted “every Sikh MP that they can think of”; rather that it’s the MPs who brought the story to them.
Because of the alleged motive.
.. The incident is alleged to have taken place on Tuesday morning in Oldbury, close to Birmingham. A Sikh community group said it had spoken to the woman and her family and that the words the attackers said were: “You don’t belong in this country, get out.”..
Anyway, I really don’t want to start a fight over a story I saw while being insomniac.
Good morning to you both.
I suspect name recognition, a lack of association with the Cabinet and wishful thinking are driving talk about his return, rather than a realistic assessment of the possibility.
Which is why I say again the one we should be watching is David Lammy. He's consistently underestimated by everyone but he's quietly manoeuvred himself into an extremely powerful position.
* OK, OK, in Elon's** case even more bonkers.
** Freudian slip corrected.
You would have thought Starmer, of all people, would be well-placed to do that. And indeed, often he has made encouraging noises, as in abolishing OFWAT and making greater use of magistrates' courts. But so far, limited progress.
I was hoping you wouldn't be so quick off the mark.
Miss Fitalass, I had a nice start to the 2023 season backing Alonso for a podium after hearing Ted Kravitz comment saying how good the Aston Martin looked (not to mention multiple good Lib Dem long shots in the 2024 election thanks to tips here). It's always nice when those come in.
Agreed that Lammy as Deputy PM holds some serious cards if Starmer’s downfall is rapid. But I don’t know he’s got the chops to play the game if this goes on until 2028 but who can say.
Cooper seems be overlooked by most but perhaps she’s the Yes Prime Minister candidate.
For a true believer in The Process State, even more so. Just one million more pages until we reach Nirvana…
Humans are non-linear and the law is deliberately linear. Which is why law without discretion and human judgement is oppressive.
I am not sure what it is about Starmer but he has been reviled by media and PBers alike since his elevation to LOTO. Even if he were "to get all the big calls right" or produce "the most Conservative budget since 1986" would he get any credit?
One of Starmer's problems, and one of the reasons some are looking longingly at Andy from Manchester, is that SKS doesn't emote. I suspect that's why he takes 24 hours too long to come to the right conclusion on many issues (see Rayner and Mandy for two examples of many.)
I'm all for incremental improvements, especially after the chaos of the last decade. But it can be a bit Cones Hotline.
Little sign of that so far.
No other candidate will have a mandate,
Phillipson is 38 on BFX and Powell 75 for next PM on BFX now.
NEW THREAD
The Utah shooter joked on Discord with his friends that his doppelganger killed Charlie Kirk when they asked him about it
https://bsky.app/profile/aric.bsky.social/post/3lyr3kglii22h
But you never get political credit for solving problems only the experts know about, there have been cock-ups a-plenty and that justification doesn't work as well on year two.
The only ones I remember being sickened were the Corbynites... who surprise surpise are not well represented on the BBC (or PB) this morning....
Pass the sickbag Maude.....