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Is Andy Burnham about to become the favourite to succeed Starmer? – politicalbetting.com

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  • viewcode said:

    I am on the tablet in the railway station and so am a bit limited in posting. If you look at my posting history you will see a link to news sites that list all the engravings and gives possible origins for them. I suggest the Very Online Dork With A Gun is the best description, not left or right.

    I probably agree. Here they would found the school wargaming club and remain a virgin for a very long time, but we don’t have guns.
    I’m prejudiced but it seems to me that the right is VERY keen to portray the shooter as a leftist while the left seems a little more open minded to various possibilities.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,363
    Vaguely tempted to put a £5 on the Saffers here. 50/1? No one can bowl on a pitch like that.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,096
    Greatest T20 innings by an Englishman
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,130
    TimS said:

    I think it’s probably true this shooter turned to the extreme left. The most compelling evidence? His republican father handed him in to a potential death penalty.

    I remember a galling conversation with an Algerian taxi driver on the way between Algiers and some Roman ruins along the coast. He was recounting stories from the civil war. Possibly a candidate for nastiest, most evil civil war in the 20th century, alongside Rwanda. There, boys entered villages and murdered their kin including their own parents, in the name of ideological purity and Allah’s will.

    In a battle as final and all consuming as the US culture war, if your son joins the ranks of the mortal enemy then maybe he deserves to be dobbed in.

    An astute and melancholy point
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,857
    TimS said:

    Anyway, let’s all celebrate the fact we don’t have this sort of nonsense this side of the Atlantic and the worst thing our far right and far left generally manage is, respectively, a bit of graffiti and some racist chanting and…a bit of graffiti and some racist chanting.

    If all that is holding us back from such violence is lack of guns, then we are just as screwed in the next decade or 2.

    While it is possible to control access to ammunition and barrels - which holds back 3D printed guns - nothing can be done about electromagnetic coil guns.

    Which can be entire 3D printed - apart from winding the coils. No components to control. Powered by a cordless drill battery. Firing ball bearings or bits of metal rod.

    The ones around now are barely lethal. But their power grows with each version.

    Oh, and they’re basically silent and there are no ballistics to identify the weapon from the projectile.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,130

    viewcode said:

    I am on the tablet in the railway station and so am a bit limited in posting. If you look at my posting history you will see a link to news sites that list all the engravings and gives possible origins for them. I suggest the Very Online Dork With A Gun is the best description, not left or right.

    I probably agree. Here they would found the school wargaming club and remain a virgin for a very long time, but we don’t have guns.
    I’m prejudiced but it seems to me that the right is VERY keen to portray the shooter as a leftist while the left seems a little more open minded to various possibilities.
    Ahahahahah
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,880
    Eabhal said:

    It's like being in the early 2000s again with people blaming shootings on video games. I'm due a mass murder or two based on my played hours.

    Guns don't kill people, rappers do.
    I seen it in a documentary on BBC2.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,363

    Eabhal said:

    It's like being in the early 2000s again with people blaming shootings on video games. I'm due a mass murder or two based on my played hours.

    Guns don't kill people, rappers do.
    I seen it in a documentary on BBC2.
    Maybe rappers with guns?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,815
    TimS said:

    I think it’s probably true this shooter turned to the extreme left. The most compelling evidence? His republican father handed him in to a potential death penalty.

    I remember a galling conversation with an Algerian taxi driver on the way between Algiers and some Roman ruins along the coast. He was recounting stories from the civil war. Possibly a candidate for nastiest, most evil civil war in the 20th century, alongside Rwanda. There, boys entered villages and murdered their kin including their own parents, in the name of ideological purity and Allah’s will.

    In a battle as final and all consuming as the US culture war, if your son joins the ranks of the mortal enemy then maybe he deserves to be dobbed in.

    I can't work out if this is a pisstake or not with the taxi driver reference..
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,136
    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    "Farage has suggested Ms Ferrari was able to afford the four-bedroom home because she comes from a wealthy French family.

    However, the BBC has examined French property and company records and has been unable to find evidence that Ms Ferrari's parents have the means to fund their daughter's purchase of the home."

    I appreciate those records are publically available - but I'm surprised the BBC think it's ok to trawl through them when they're not even married.

    And is the lack of evidence actually at all meaningful? Just because their wealth isn’t in the public record doesn’t mean they aren’t wealthy.
    where did the leader of the most popular party get a spare £800k to buy a home? it's absolutely relevant
    I dont doubt that Farage has loads of wonga, he has been grifting for years.

    Yet he told the press that it wasn't his money, so who did give it to Ferrari?, what were the terms?, and was the source of funds declared to the conveyancer?

    It is very relevant when discussing the possible next PM.

    If you give someone money, and it's not secretly a loan, what's the problem? They own the money. Perhaps there is a tax liability, but unless it's a secret loan "source of funds" should be fine, no?
    Sure, it is quite possibly fine, but such an odd way to purchase a house.

    A secret loan is not necessarily fine, depending on AML rules.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,086
    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    I think it’s probably true this shooter turned to the extreme left. The most compelling evidence? His republican father handed him in to a potential death penalty.

    I remember a galling conversation with an Algerian taxi driver on the way between Algiers and some Roman ruins along the coast. He was recounting stories from the civil war. Possibly a candidate for nastiest, most evil civil war in the 20th century, alongside Rwanda. There, boys entered villages and murdered their kin including their own parents, in the name of ideological purity and Allah’s will.

    In a battle as final and all consuming as the US culture war, if your son joins the ranks of the mortal enemy then maybe he deserves to be dobbed in.

    I can't work out if this is a pisstake or not with the taxi driver reference..
    You talking to me?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,064
    These stories are happening too often, recently.
    There a danger the whole sector implodes.

    AstraZeneca pauses £200m investment in Cambridge research site
    Decision means none of drugmaker’s much-trumpeted £650m UK investment package is currently proceeding
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/sep/12/astrazeneca-pauses-200m-investment-in-cambridge-research-site
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,136
    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    I think it’s probably true this shooter turned to the extreme left. The most compelling evidence? His republican father handed him in to a potential death penalty.

    I remember a galling conversation with an Algerian taxi driver on the way between Algiers and some Roman ruins along the coast. He was recounting stories from the civil war. Possibly a candidate for nastiest, most evil civil war in the 20th century, alongside Rwanda. There, boys entered villages and murdered their kin including their own parents, in the name of ideological purity and Allah’s will.

    In a battle as final and all consuming as the US culture war, if your son joins the ranks of the mortal enemy then maybe he deserves to be dobbed in.

    I can't work out if this is a pisstake or not with the taxi driver reference..
    You talking to me?
    One of these days I am going to get myself organzizzed...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,762

    Eabhal said:

    It's like being in the early 2000s again with people blaming shootings on video games. I'm due a mass murder or two based on my played hours.

    Guns don't kill people, rappers do.
    I seen it in a documentary on BBC2.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_Don't_Kill_People,_Rappers_Do
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,430
    Am I the only person who thinks Luke Wood looks a little bit like Lawrence Fox?
  • DavidL said:

    Vaguely tempted to put a £5 on the Saffers here. 50/1? No one can bowl on a pitch like that.

    I have put a fiver on the Saffers too, England have left 30 runs out there.
  • Nigelb said:

    These stories are happening too often, recently.
    There a danger the whole sector implodes.

    AstraZeneca pauses £200m investment in Cambridge research site
    Decision means none of drugmaker’s much-trumpeted £650m UK investment package is currently proceeding
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/sep/12/astrazeneca-pauses-200m-investment-in-cambridge-research-site

    Peter Kyle, new Business Secretary, previously Science Secretary:

    By the age of 25, he was accepted on his third attempt to become a student at the University of Sussex, where he gained a degree in geography, international development, and environmental studies, and later a doctorate in community development.

    After university, Kyle worked as an aid worker and as a project director for the charity Children on the Edge in Eastern Europe and the Balkans helping young people whose lives had been affected by the political instability created by the Bosnian War and Kosovan War, helping to establish an orphanage in Romania.

    In 2006, Kyle became a Cabinet Office special adviser focusing on social exclusion policy.

    From 2007 to 2013, he was deputy chief executive of the Association of Chief Executives of Voluntary Organisations (ACEVO). In 2013, he became chief executive of Working for Youth, a newly formed charity focusing on helping unemployed youth.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Kyle
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,630
    edited September 12
    How many times have all bowlers gone for more than ten an over in an international cricket innings?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,130
    On a more cheering note. Sardinia continues to amaze

    Today I did nothing but write knap swim loaf and sunbathe. But then I felt the need to walk so I strolled down to the magnificent beach and a lovely bar

    Then I noticed an exquisitely humble 11th century church built by a mysterious Spanish princess (giving the village its name - Santa Maria Navarrese). Then I realised that next to the church is maybe the oldest olive tree in Italy. A wonderful mythic thing. 3000 years old maybe

    Then I discovered that when they revamped the church years ago they found a prehistoric “cup marked” stone - probably used for sacrificial rites in the Stone Age - implying that the site has been sacred for 6000 years

    And the bar did delicious Sardinian crispbread


  • TazTaz Posts: 21,020
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I am on the tablet in the railway station and so am a bit limited in posting. If you look at my posting history you will see a link to news sites that list all the engravings and gives possible origins for them. I suggest the Very Online Dork With A Gun is the best description, not left or right.

    I probably agree. Here they would found the school wargaming club and remain a virgin for a very long time, but we don’t have guns.
    I’m prejudiced but it seems to me that the right is VERY keen to portray the shooter as a leftist while the left seems a little more open minded to various possibilities.
    Ahahahahah
    In the words of…..


  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,175
    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,130
    Sardinia in September is pretty much perfetto

    The bulk of tourists have gone home. The horrible heat has ebbed. But it’s still 27C and sunny. Evenings are balmy but not sticky. Everyone is chilled and happy. The figs are ripe
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,882
    DavidL said:

    Vaguely tempted to put a £5 on the Saffers here. 50/1? No one can bowl on a pitch like that.

    Yup. But at 150.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,130
    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,995
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,130

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,344
    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Contrary to what I'd read, it turns out Farage only took advice this week after he got scared:

    "I've even been this week to a King's Counsel tax expert and paid a lot of money to make sure that everything we've done is legal and right."

    Asked why he had sought expert tax advice, Farage said he was "really concerned" that some media reports were "beginning to stray into libel territory".

    "So I have now done everything I can at every level to prove that everything that's been done is legal, correct and right," he added.

    "It's been a very expensive week."

    That’s how you do it. Farage is infinitely better at palming off media scrutiny than almost all other politicians.

    It’s a shame his political talents came in a package with far right ideology rather than, say, centrist Dadaism.
    Centrist dada-ism sounds like something I could vote for.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,052
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    you bigly bigly petard hoister huh
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,175
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    From a game
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,213
    Unless and until Burnham wins a parliamentary seat again than Streeting or Cooper are Starmer's likely replacements, if he leaves No 10 before the next general election
  • On topic

    Burnham on manoeuvres and expected to critise Starmer at Labour's conference

    Burnham prepares to challenge Starmer for leadership

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/12/burnham-prepares-for-leadership-challenge-to-starmer/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,213
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    Indeed, no populist right conservative would have had that slogan
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,882
    biggles said:

    DavidL said:

    Vaguely tempted to put a £5 on the Saffers here. 50/1? No one can bowl on a pitch like that.

    Yup. But at 150.
    I’m not taking my wife out for dinner on those winnings am I? She will, however, still hold me to dinner.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,344
    Eabhal said:

    It's like being in the early 2000s again with people blaming shootings on video games. I'm due a mass murder or two based on my played hours.

    See also the early 90s. And 80s. And video nasties. And in the 70s there was ... the occult, and...

    I've never been quite sure if there is a type of person who gets into politics/law and who can't get their head around the fact there are just nutters out there. Random, roll-of-the-dice nutters. Having a law, or guidance, 'interventions', or best practices that say "Don't be a nutter" doesn't really help.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,136
    HYUFD said:

    Unless and until Burnham wins a parliamentary seat again than Streeting or Cooper are Starmer's likely replacements, if he leaves No 10 before the next general election

    Nah. Phillipson. Neither Cooper nor Streeting would get the nominations.
  • Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    you bigly bigly petard hoister huh
    Petard hoister?

    Sounds like the Singapore grip.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,213
    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    DavidL said:

    Labour find it really difficult to remove their leaders. Corbyn was astonishingly useless (at least for those who had understandably not paid any attention to his career) and lost an election and they still couldn't get rid of him. Starmer is a sitting PM and he's not going anywhere unless he chooses to do so.

    His judgement is shite. This is not news. Everyone knew this when they chose him. But he is PM and will not want to stand down on any terms other than his own.

    His judgement is poor and his news management is poor. Adds up to shite, but I don't mind the latter element.
    I’m sorry, but Starmer’s political judgment is way beyond “poor”. Sunak was “poor”. Starmer is in a different league

    There are so many examples but let’s focus on Lord Yum Yum. He didn’t have to do any of this. He didn’t have to appoint him. He didn’t have to rush out and express confidence in him as the scandal kicked off. He didn’t have to do that AGAIN in the commons even as everyone else in the universe knew Mandy was toast

    All unforced. All howlingly stupid. He is so bad at politics people semi-seriously wonder if he is a spy paid by China

    He is the worst “politician” we’ve seen in number 10 in my lifetime. He has no political sense. Zero

    He’s a dull witted public sector lawyer and that’s where he should have stayed
    Yes most ex Tory voters who went Labour last year, even the now Reform voters, would swap Starmer back for Sunak in a second now.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,213
    edited September 12
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Unless and until Burnham wins a parliamentary seat again than Streeting or Cooper are Starmer's likely replacements, if he leaves No 10 before the next general election

    Nah. Phillipson. Neither Cooper nor Streeting would get the nominations.
    They would, they hold serious Cabinet jobs, Philipson is running to be Labour members pet dog basically, she won't even replace Lammy as Deputy PM even if she becomes Deputy Labour Leader
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,344
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Unless and until Burnham wins a parliamentary seat again than Streeting or Cooper are Starmer's likely replacements, if he leaves No 10 before the next general election

    Nah. Phillipson. Neither Cooper nor Streeting would get the nominations.
    My dark afternoon thought was that Starmer stands aside, Corbyn announces he's rejoining, and ... 'hilarity ensues'.
  • HYUFD said:

    Unless and until Burnham wins a parliamentary seat again than Streeting or Cooper are Starmer's likely replacements, if he leaves No 10 before the next general election

    Frankly none of us can predict where this leads and see my post @8.48 and keep an open mind
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,136
    ohnotnow said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's like being in the early 2000s again with people blaming shootings on video games. I'm due a mass murder or two based on my played hours.

    See also the early 90s. And 80s. And video nasties. And in the 70s there was ... the occult, and...

    I've never been quite sure if there is a type of person who gets into politics/law and who can't get their head around the fact there are just nutters out there. Random, roll-of-the-dice nutters. Having a law, or guidance, 'interventions', or best practices that say "Don't be a nutter" doesn't really help.
    I dont think anyone has blamed gaming, just identified the source of the quotes.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,024
    edited September 12
    It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.

    I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.

    As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,213
    edited September 12

    On topic

    Burnham on manoeuvres and expected to critise Starmer at Labour's conference

    Burnham prepares to challenge Starmer for leadership

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/12/burnham-prepares-for-leadership-challenge-to-starmer/

    'The Mayor of Greater Manchester has launched a new campaign group calling on Downing Street to introduce wealth taxes, nationalise utility companies and end the two-child benefit cap.

    He is expected to explicitly criticise Sir Keir at Labour’s annual party conference later this month, calling for a “reset” to help Labour win the next election.

    Mr Burnham has also thrown his support behind Lucy Powell in Labour’s deputy leadership race in what has been interpreted as an attempt to secure an ally at the top of the party.'

    Though again he needs to get back as an MP in a by election for a serious challenge
  • Six overs in and the Saffers need very nearly three off each ball
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,995
    ohnotnow said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's like being in the early 2000s again with people blaming shootings on video games. I'm due a mass murder or two based on my played hours.

    See also the early 90s. And 80s. And video nasties. And in the 70s there was ... the occult, and...

    I've never been quite sure if there is a type of person who gets into politics/law and who can't get their head around the fact there are just nutters out there. Random, roll-of-the-dice nutters. Having a law, or guidance, 'interventions', or best practices that say "Don't be a nutter" doesn't really help.
    Indeed. But there is a difference now.

    It's not just about people playing 'violent' games any more. There is also the online aspects now, where people interact as they play. The two together - violent games and Internet asshats - may make the nutters more likely to commit crime.

    I've been rather shocked at reports from kids I know of the stuff they're being told online in games channels.
  • It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.

    I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.

    As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.

    Yes but Truss was out in 6 weeks
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,344

    On topic

    Burnham on manoeuvres and expected to critise Starmer at Labour's conference

    Burnham prepares to challenge Starmer for leadership

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/12/burnham-prepares-for-leadership-challenge-to-starmer/

    I could imagine him making a bit of "Of course I'm not standing for leader, I'm not an MP, I'm working for the people of Manchester. So I am in no way making a play for your votes here. But Keir, is so bad. So very bad. ....... No! Stop looking at me!"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,064

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
    You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,640
    HYUFD said:

    Unless and until Burnham wins a parliamentary seat again than Streeting or Cooper are Starmer's likely replacements, if he leaves No 10 before the next general election

    Burnham loses Bootle to Reform would destroy his reputation.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,762

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
    This guy reckons the shooter was a groyper: https://xcancel.com/DavidShuster
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,175
    @JenniferJJacobs

    LATEST: The father of the 22-year-old charged in the Charlie Kirk killing saw the photos released by authorities and confronted his son, law enforcement sources told
    @CBSNews
    . Robinson admitted to his dad that he was the person in the photos. His father urged him to turn himself in, but the son said he'd rather commit suicide, the sources said. The father called a pastor who knows the son; the pastor called the US Marshals and other law enforcement agencies. Tyler Robinson is being held on aggravated murder, obstruction of justice, felony discharge of a firearm.
    CBS reports he is a third-year student in the electrical apprenticeship program at Dixie Technical College. He briefly attended Utah State University. The father owns a business installing kitchen countertops and cabinets; his mother is a licensed social worker. The Robinsons are Mormon and active in the church. Tyler is the oldest of three.

    https://x.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1966591501548257667
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,344

    ohnotnow said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's like being in the early 2000s again with people blaming shootings on video games. I'm due a mass murder or two based on my played hours.

    See also the early 90s. And 80s. And video nasties. And in the 70s there was ... the occult, and...

    I've never been quite sure if there is a type of person who gets into politics/law and who can't get their head around the fact there are just nutters out there. Random, roll-of-the-dice nutters. Having a law, or guidance, 'interventions', or best practices that say "Don't be a nutter" doesn't really help.
    Indeed. But there is a difference now.

    It's not just about people playing 'violent' games any more. There is also the online aspects now, where people interact as they play. The two together - violent games and Internet asshats - may make the nutters more likely to commit crime.

    I've been rather shocked at reports from kids I know of the stuff they're being told online in games channels.
    Are you trying to say my intricate network of people across Europe who I swapped floppy disks with weren't just a very, very slow internet? None of us went gun-crazy. Not many at least. There was that one guy who could never get past level one of even a hacked version of 'Bubble Bobble', but let's ignore that.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,995
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    You were not.

    But you also seem curiously incapable of analysing information that you receive. So not only do you often choose to spread bad information, but your analysis of that information is often laughable.

    It'd be good if you actually used your self-proclaimed high IQ on occasion.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,640
    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    DavidL said:

    Vaguely tempted to put a £5 on the Saffers here. 50/1? No one can bowl on a pitch like that.

    Yup. But at 150.
    I’m not taking my wife out for dinner on those winnings am I? She will, however, still hold me to dinner.
    Enjoy dinner. The winnings will make the difference between house wine and something at the bottom of the wine list.

    P.S, if it’s a particularly good meal, PB are always looking for recommendations.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,064
    Quote of the day.

    Trump Spox: "I think it's frankly ridiculous that anyone in this room would even suggest that President Trump is doing anything for his own benefit.”
    https://x.com/highbrow_nobrow/status/1966546876959789323
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,761

    On topic

    Burnham on manoeuvres and expected to critise Starmer at Labour's conference

    Burnham prepares to challenge Starmer for leadership

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/12/burnham-prepares-for-leadership-challenge-to-starmer/

    Is there a market on Telegraph political stories being accurate?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,064
    The Governor of Utah, Spencer Cox, just said, "For the last 33 hours, I had been praying that this person (who murdered Charlie Kirk) was from another country. That he was not one of us because we are not like that. But it was one of us."
    https://x.com/shannonrwatts/status/1966526377550606798
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,024
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    DavidL said:

    Labour find it really difficult to remove their leaders. Corbyn was astonishingly useless (at least for those who had understandably not paid any attention to his career) and lost an election and they still couldn't get rid of him. Starmer is a sitting PM and he's not going anywhere unless he chooses to do so.

    His judgement is shite. This is not news. Everyone knew this when they chose him. But he is PM and will not want to stand down on any terms other than his own.

    His judgement is poor and his news management is poor. Adds up to shite, but I don't mind the latter element.
    I’m sorry, but Starmer’s political judgment is way beyond “poor”. Sunak was “poor”. Starmer is in a different league

    There are so many examples but let’s focus on Lord Yum Yum. He didn’t have to do any of this. He didn’t have to appoint him. He didn’t have to rush out and express confidence in him as the scandal kicked off. He didn’t have to do that AGAIN in the commons even as everyone else in the universe knew Mandy was toast

    All unforced. All howlingly stupid. He is so bad at politics people semi-seriously wonder if he is a spy paid by China

    He is the worst “politician” we’ve seen in number 10 in my lifetime. He has no political sense. Zero

    He’s a dull witted public sector lawyer and that’s where he should have stayed
    Yes most ex Tory voters who went Labour last year, even the now Reform voters, would swap Starmer back for Sunak in a second now.

    Sunak was crap. Maybe with his own mandate, and more time, he might have been less crap, but I don’t look back on his premiership fondly. It is still very fair to say that the Tories are responsible for a lot of the problems we are currently facing.

    However, Starmer has been shown to be just as crap at running the country as Sunak, if not worse. I do regret my vote for Labour in the last GE now, but I don’t really regret voting against the Tories.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,857
    ohnotnow said:

    On topic

    Burnham on manoeuvres and expected to critise Starmer at Labour's conference

    Burnham prepares to challenge Starmer for leadership

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/12/burnham-prepares-for-leadership-challenge-to-starmer/

    I could imagine him making a bit of "Of course I'm not standing for leader, I'm not an MP, I'm working for the people of Manchester. So I am in no way making a play for your votes here. But Keir, is so bad. So very bad. ....... No! Stop looking at me!"
    I think it was John Le Carre who had a character remark “All power corrupts, but some must govern, so x will reluctantly scramble to the top of the heap”.
  • Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
    You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
    Thank you but I am not prepared to speculate on something as serious as this or post something that could cause an issue for the site
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,130

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
    Here. Here’s the FBI/governor confirming that the shooter wrote “hey fascist, catch” and a famous antifa lyric on the ammo he used to kill Kirk

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1966513339091014010?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,640

    It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.

    I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.

    As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.

    Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,064
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    And what was the "and so on", which you elide ?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,024

    It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.

    I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.

    As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.

    Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
    He is terrible. But as the Tories showed us with the Johnson/Truss switcheroo it can get worse.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,175
    Nigelb said:

    The Governor of Utah, Spencer Cox, just said, "For the last 33 hours, I had been praying that this person (who murdered Charlie Kirk) was from another country. That he was not one of us because we are not like that. But it was one of us."
    https://x.com/shannonrwatts/status/1966526377550606798

    Standing next to Kash Patel
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,762
    Scott_xP said:

    @JenniferJJacobs

    LATEST: The father of the 22-year-old charged in the Charlie Kirk killing saw the photos released by authorities and confronted his son, law enforcement sources told
    @CBSNews
    . Robinson admitted to his dad that he was the person in the photos. His father urged him to turn himself in, but the son said he'd rather commit suicide, the sources said. The father called a pastor who knows the son; the pastor called the US Marshals and other law enforcement agencies. Tyler Robinson is being held on aggravated murder, obstruction of justice, felony discharge of a firearm.
    CBS reports he is a third-year student in the electrical apprenticeship program at Dixie Technical College. He briefly attended Utah State University. The father owns a business installing kitchen countertops and cabinets; his mother is a licensed social worker. The Robinsons are Mormon and active in the church. Tyler is the oldest of three.

    https://x.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1966591501548257667

    Whilst we all argue about whether he is left or right, it seems that he was a perfectly normal 22yr old, in a perfectly normal family, and one stupid act of violence has destroyed all that and his family too. Idiot. Bloody idiot.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
    Here. Here’s the FBI/governor confirming that the shooter wrote “hey fascist, catch” and a famous antifa lyric on the ammo he used to kill Kirk

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1966513339091014010?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    As I say I await far more information and am not being drawn into this
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,640
    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Unless and until Burnham wins a parliamentary seat again than Streeting or Cooper are Starmer's likely replacements, if he leaves No 10 before the next general election

    Nah. Phillipson. Neither Cooper nor Streeting would get the nominations.
    My dark afternoon thought was that Starmer stands aside, Corbyn announces he's rejoining, and ... 'hilarity ensues'.
    Corbyn was a better Labour leader than Starmer has proven to be. Corbyn didn’t fatally destroy the Labour Party through utter incompetence, lack of personality and metropolitan hubris.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,344

    It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.

    I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.

    As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.

    It's their USP. It's why we love those lovable little rogues.

    :: ruffles their hair and gives them an affectionate pinch of the cheek ::
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,111
    edited September 12
    MattW said:

    On topic

    Burnham on manoeuvres and expected to critise Starmer at Labour's conference

    Burnham prepares to challenge Starmer for leadership

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/12/burnham-prepares-for-leadership-challenge-to-starmer/

    Is there a market on Telegraph political stories being accurate?
    You can critise the source but if you think it is wrong then maybe explain your reservations

    And this from the Guardian

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/12/keir-starmer-warned-time-running-out-to-repair-faltering-premiership?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,130
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    And what was the "and so on", which you elide ?
    The UNverified claims: that the family report he was radicalised to the left, that he was a known figure on antifa Discord etc

    As these are, so far, unverified, I’m being super responsible and not citing them

    I know. I’m too honourable for my own good. But there it is
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,995
    Remember that man apprehended at the event after the shooting, who many people assumed (wrongly) was the shooter?

    "Jackson Hinkle 🇺🇸
    @jacksonhinklle
    🚨🇮🇱🇺🇸 BREAKING: Resurfaced video of the patsy George Zinn, who was ARRESTED while creating the diversion amid Charlie Kirk's assassination, recounts how he knew Al Qaeda was responsible for the 9/11 attack the moment he saw the towers fall."

    Innocent lives are going to be ruined by these shits.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,175
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    And what was the "and so on", which you elide ?
    Are you asking Leon about the codes from the game? The gamer codes that the shooter used, from a video game? Is that the "and so on"?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,640
    HYUFD said:

    On topic

    Burnham on manoeuvres and expected to critise Starmer at Labour's conference

    Burnham prepares to challenge Starmer for leadership

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/12/burnham-prepares-for-leadership-challenge-to-starmer/

    'The Mayor of Greater Manchester has launched a new campaign group calling on Downing Street to introduce wealth taxes, nationalise utility companies and end the two-child benefit cap.

    He is expected to explicitly criticise Sir Keir at Labour’s annual party conference later this month, calling for a “reset” to help Labour win the next election.

    Mr Burnham has also thrown his support behind Lucy Powell in Labour’s deputy leadership race in what has been interpreted as an attempt to secure an ally at the top of the party.'

    Though again he needs to get back as an MP in a by election for a serious challenge
    Or Powell becomes leader and resigns after Labour win the next election. However, Gordon Brown says it doesn’t always work that way.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,130
    MattW said:

    On topic

    Burnham on manoeuvres and expected to critise Starmer at Labour's conference

    Burnham prepares to challenge Starmer for leadership

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/12/burnham-prepares-for-leadership-challenge-to-starmer/

    Is there a market on Telegraph political stories being accurate?
    They’re always accurate. Earlier today there was a brilliant article about annexing stamp collections, by a new telegraph pundit
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,344

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Unless and until Burnham wins a parliamentary seat again than Streeting or Cooper are Starmer's likely replacements, if he leaves No 10 before the next general election

    Nah. Phillipson. Neither Cooper nor Streeting would get the nominations.
    My dark afternoon thought was that Starmer stands aside, Corbyn announces he's rejoining, and ... 'hilarity ensues'.
    Corbyn was a better Labour leader than Starmer has proven to be. Corbyn didn’t fatally destroy the Labour Party through utter incompetence, lack of personality and metropolitan hubris.
    I guess he did have the huge advantage of losing and not becoming PM.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,050
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    And what was the "and so on", which you elide ?
    According to Sky News, they were:
    "Hey fascist! Catch!"
    "O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao, ciao, ciao"
    "If you read this, you're gay. LMAO."

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,064

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
    You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
    Thank you but I am not prepared to speculate on something as serious as this or post something that could cause an issue for the site
    That makes you sensible.

    I also have avoided ascribing any motive to the shooter, for now. We know a bit more than we did this morning, but the information released is hardly comprehensive.

    People are just interpreting it according to their biases - and not a few have quietly modified their interpretations once or twice, already.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,213
    edited September 12

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Unless and until Burnham wins a parliamentary seat again than Streeting or Cooper are Starmer's likely replacements, if he leaves No 10 before the next general election

    Nah. Phillipson. Neither Cooper nor Streeting would get the nominations.
    My dark afternoon thought was that Starmer stands aside, Corbyn announces he's rejoining, and ... 'hilarity ensues'.
    Corbyn was a better Labour leader than Starmer has proven to be. Corbyn didn’t fatally destroy the Labour Party through utter incompetence, lack of personality and metropolitan hubris.
    Corbyn lost 2 general elections, Starmer has won the only one he fought, so that is far too early to say.

    Especially if Starmer gets LD and Green tactical votes as last year to defeat the Tories and Reform
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,344
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    And what was the "and so on", which you elide ?
    According to Sky News, they were:
    "Hey fascist! Catch!"
    "O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao, ciao, ciao"
    "If you read this, you're gay. LMAO."

    Not even 'UR gay'. Clearly a plant by the blob/black-suits/CIA/Epstein-crowd.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,213

    It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.

    I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.

    As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.

    Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
    They won't be as no party looks like overtaking them on the left, it is the Tories at threat of losing their place as the main party of the right to Reform
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,213

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    DavidL said:

    Labour find it really difficult to remove their leaders. Corbyn was astonishingly useless (at least for those who had understandably not paid any attention to his career) and lost an election and they still couldn't get rid of him. Starmer is a sitting PM and he's not going anywhere unless he chooses to do so.

    His judgement is shite. This is not news. Everyone knew this when they chose him. But he is PM and will not want to stand down on any terms other than his own.

    His judgement is poor and his news management is poor. Adds up to shite, but I don't mind the latter element.
    I’m sorry, but Starmer’s political judgment is way beyond “poor”. Sunak was “poor”. Starmer is in a different league

    There are so many examples but let’s focus on Lord Yum Yum. He didn’t have to do any of this. He didn’t have to appoint him. He didn’t have to rush out and express confidence in him as the scandal kicked off. He didn’t have to do that AGAIN in the commons even as everyone else in the universe knew Mandy was toast

    All unforced. All howlingly stupid. He is so bad at politics people semi-seriously wonder if he is a spy paid by China

    He is the worst “politician” we’ve seen in number 10 in my lifetime. He has no political sense. Zero

    He’s a dull witted public sector lawyer and that’s where he should have stayed
    Yes most ex Tory voters who went Labour last year, even the now Reform voters, would swap Starmer back for Sunak in a second now.

    Sunak was crap. Maybe with his own mandate, and more time, he might have been less crap, but I don’t look back on his premiership fondly. It is still very fair to say that the Tories are responsible for a lot of the problems we are currently facing.

    However, Starmer has been shown to be just as crap at running the country as Sunak, if not worse. I do regret my vote for Labour in the last GE now, but I don’t really regret voting against the Tories.
    Sunak stabilised the economy after Truss, introduced measures now cutting immigration and was far more dynamic and more intelligent than Starmer was
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,136
    Nigelb said:

    The Governor of Utah, Spencer Cox, just said, "For the last 33 hours, I had been praying that this person (who murdered Charlie Kirk) was from another country. That he was not one of us because we are not like that. But it was one of us."
    https://x.com/shannonrwatts/status/1966526377550606798

    At least Kirk can rest in peace knowing that he wasn't shot by a "diversity hire".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,213

    HYUFD said:

    Unless and until Burnham wins a parliamentary seat again than Streeting or Cooper are Starmer's likely replacements, if he leaves No 10 before the next general election

    Burnham loses Bootle to Reform would destroy his reputation.
    Yes well he wouldn't stand in Bootle would he but likely a Manchester seat, he might even win Bootle though given he has a much higher net approval rating with voters than Farage or Starmer
  • HYUFD said:

    On topic

    Burnham on manoeuvres and expected to critise Starmer at Labour's conference

    Burnham prepares to challenge Starmer for leadership

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/12/burnham-prepares-for-leadership-challenge-to-starmer/

    'The Mayor of Greater Manchester has launched a new campaign group calling on Downing Street to introduce wealth taxes, nationalise utility companies and end the two-child benefit cap.

    He is expected to explicitly criticise Sir Keir at Labour’s annual party conference later this month, calling for a “reset” to help Labour win the next election.

    Mr Burnham has also thrown his support behind Lucy Powell in Labour’s deputy leadership race in what has been interpreted as an attempt to secure an ally at the top of the party.'

    Though again he needs to get back as an MP in a by election for a serious challenge
    No mention of small boats and/or migrants?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,175
    Unfired cartridges found with the gun that officials say was used to kill Charlie Kirk were engraved with a variety of messages, the authorities said on Friday, including many that suggest a familiarity with antifascist symbolism and the insider slang of video games and online culture that pervade the lives of young Americans.

    Many of the messages, described by Gov. Spencer Cox of Utah at a news conference announcing the arrest of Tyler Robinson, 22, adopt the flippant, sarcastic, in-jokey chatter often found on online message boards and in-game chats.

    “Up arrow, right arrow, and three down arrow symbols,” as the governor described one engraving, appears to be a reference to a sequence of controller moves that unleashes bombs in the popular video game Helldivers 2.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/12/us/charlie-kirk-bullet-casings-engravings.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,064
    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    And what was the "and so on", which you elide ?
    Are you asking Leon about the codes from the game? The gamer codes that the shooter used, from a video game? Is that the "and so on"?
    Yes. Perhaps they didn't entirely suit Leon's analysis.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,050
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
    You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
    Thank you but I am not prepared to speculate on something as serious as this or post something that could cause an issue for the site
    That makes you sensible.

    I also have avoided ascribing any motive to the shooter, for now. We know a bit more than we did this morning, but the information released is hardly comprehensive.

    People are just interpreting it according to their biases - and not a few have quietly modified their interpretations once or twice, already.
    I would be quite prepared to believe amongst the maelstrom of America, there are left-wing extremists with access to guns and no qualms about shooting people with whom they disagree. And I'd also be prepared to believe there are similar people for whom Charlie Kirk was not right wing enough, or the wrong sort of right wing. And I'd be quite prepared to believe the regime is prepares to stage violence for its own ends (we never did get to the bottom of the saasytempt last Autumn). I don't suppose we'll ever actually know with much certainty.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,201

    On topic

    Burnham on manoeuvres and expected to critise Starmer at Labour's conference

    Burnham prepares to challenge Starmer for leadership

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/12/burnham-prepares-for-leadership-challenge-to-starmer/

    Oh BigG. it's the Telegraph.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,130
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    And what was the "and so on", which you elide ?
    Are you asking Leon about the codes from the game? The gamer codes that the shooter used, from a video game? Is that the "and so on"?
    Yes. Perhaps they didn't entirely suit Leon's analysis.
    He wrote “hey fascist! Catch!” On the ammo he used to kill a man that the antifa left has demonised as a fascist for ten years

    This is surreal
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,640
    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Unless and until Burnham wins a parliamentary seat again than Streeting or Cooper are Starmer's likely replacements, if he leaves No 10 before the next general election

    Nah. Phillipson. Neither Cooper nor Streeting would get the nominations.
    My dark afternoon thought was that Starmer stands aside, Corbyn announces he's rejoining, and ... 'hilarity ensues'.
    Corbyn was a better Labour leader than Starmer has proven to be. Corbyn didn’t fatally destroy the Labour Party through utter incompetence, lack of personality and metropolitan hubris.
    I guess he did have the huge advantage of losing and not becoming PM.
    I wish Starmer had lost and not become PM. I never thought that Sunak wouldn’t have been the worst option, but Starmer has vastly surpassed him in utter incompetence. They both make Ed Davey seem the best option.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,283
    Evening all :)

    While watching the thunder and lightning at Sandown this afternoon (who'd be a bookie standing out in a storm?), I mused on the thought Burnham isn't the only Mayor in town.

    What about everyone's favourite, Sadiq Khan? It's quite possible he'll announce he won't be standing again for the London Mayoralty and it's not beyond the realms of credibility a "safe" London seat might become available (East Ham perhaps?). Khan gets into Parliament and would likely be fast tracked into a Cabinet position - I presume the main issue would be replacing one London lawyer with another.

    I think it improbable much as I do the febrile speculation about Government collapse and elections. Labour has a big majority and IF Starmer decides to step down (or is compelled following evidence that is so damning as to make his position untenable), there are any number of alternative leaders/Prime Ministers and probably more than one who would enjoy more backbench support (there are a lot of Labour backbenchers - far more than there are Conservative, Lib Dem or Reform backbenchers of course).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,064
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidShuster

    According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.

    https://x.com/DavidShuster/status/1966576856515203480

    Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
    Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days... ;)
    I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information

    “Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
    I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
    You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
    Thank you but I am not prepared to speculate on something as serious as this or post something that could cause an issue for the site
    That makes you sensible.

    I also have avoided ascribing any motive to the shooter, for now. We know a bit more than we did this morning, but the information released is hardly comprehensive.

    People are just interpreting it according to their biases - and not a few have quietly modified their interpretations once or twice, already.
    I would be quite prepared to believe amongst the maelstrom of America, there are left-wing extremists with access to guns and no qualms about shooting people with whom they disagree. And I'd also be prepared to believe there are similar people for whom Charlie Kirk was not right wing enough, or the wrong sort of right wing. And I'd be quite prepared to believe the regime is prepares to stage violence for its own ends (we never did get to the bottom of the saasytempt last Autumn). I don't suppose we'll ever actually know with much certainty.
    Given they've arrested the guy alive, unlike most such shooters, it's possible we'll find out eventually.
    I'm just not inclined to make political points based on something I really don't know for now.

    What I can fairly safely say is that all the anti-trans posters making capital out of this yesterday ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,189

    It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.

    I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.

    As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.

    Or we could all calm the f down, read up on 1979 to 1983 and stop worrying. Poll leads four years out don't win elections.

    Farage, if he has any sense, won't send his conference home to 'go back to your constituencies and prepare for government '.*

    * I know they've had their conference...
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,640
    HYUFD said:

    It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.

    I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.

    As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.

    Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
    They won't be as no party looks like overtaking them on the left, it is the Tories at threat of losing their place as the main party of the right to Reform
    The6 don’t need to be overtaken on the left. With the Tories being Reform lite, Reform being anathema to non racists, the left being divided, as usual, and Labour being more incompetent than anyone could have imagined, the Lib Dems have the best opportunity of success for decades, if they can take it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,201
    edited September 12
    HYUFD said:

    It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.

    I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.

    As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.

    Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
    They won't be as no party looks like overtaking them on the left, it is the Tories at threat of losing their place as the main party of the right to Reform
    If your team had anything about them they would move on from Rayner and Mandelson who they have cut off at the knees and who are both already toast, and start beating Farage with the morality of avoiding a barrow load of stamp duty. But they won't because they think he is their friend.

    Farage is Reform and the Tories could easily start chipping away at Farage because of the historical (and now up-to-date stamp duty) baggage he carries. For example "I admire Vladimir Putin". Personally, I'd rather give the vile Epstein the benefit of the doubt than Putin.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,363
    Well, so much for that theory. Better bowling by England and score board pressure kill SA.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,283

    ohnotnow said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Unless and until Burnham wins a parliamentary seat again than Streeting or Cooper are Starmer's likely replacements, if he leaves No 10 before the next general election

    Nah. Phillipson. Neither Cooper nor Streeting would get the nominations.
    My dark afternoon thought was that Starmer stands aside, Corbyn announces he's rejoining, and ... 'hilarity ensues'.
    Corbyn was a better Labour leader than Starmer has proven to be. Corbyn didn’t fatally destroy the Labour Party through utter incompetence, lack of personality and metropolitan hubris.
    I guess he did have the huge advantage of losing and not becoming PM.
    I wish Starmer had lost and not become PM. I never thought that Sunak wouldn’t have been the worst option, but Starmer has vastly surpassed him in utter incompetence. They both make Ed Davey seem the best option.
    Which he is as I'm sure most on here would agree.

    Let's be fair - no Conservative leader could have defended the awful Government of 2019-24, let alone post-2016. Defeat was arguably as inevitable as it had been in 1997 and in hindsight, the Conservatives probably lost the election as far back as March 2020 when lockdown was announced.

    To be fair to the Conservatives, they were far from being the only western Government to be undermined and ultimately swept away by the Covid experience.
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