It must be pretty depressing being a Labour backbencher atm
Leadership looking after their mates, herded like sheep to vote for the right candidate, voting for things you dont agree with and no vision to say what it's all for or give you the chance to look for a light in the tunnel
What is happening to the government now is what usually happens to governments who have been in power for 8-10 years. Only they’ve only been in charge for 18 months.
At the moment year 2026 is the favourite with the bookies for Starmer's exit, at about 2/1. Which seems a bit short. 2025 is about 8/1, which today feels either right or a bit long.
The Mandelson saga gives a real and genuine ground for suggesting Starmer must go, as the judgment involved in appointing Mandelson is seen to be wanting, politically, factually and morally. And, I should think there is no shortage of Labour people, to say nothing of media and oppositions, who will give the process a hand if they can.
What was Starmer thinking??
I can’t get my head around it. Such a monumental unforced error
Who made the decision? Who saw the vetting and said Yeah that’s fine. Who asked Mandy about jeff and what did they hear?
Yes. If I heard PMQs rightly, Starmer was already hiding behind the two great concepts of 'due process; and 'state secrecy'. Which suggests of course that there is a great deal we might want to know, and they don't want to tell us.
Let's be grateful for a free and inquisitive media.
At the moment year 2026 is the favourite with the bookies for Starmer's exit, at about 2/1. Which seems a bit short. 2025 is about 8/1, which today feels either right or a bit long.
The Mandelson saga gives a real and genuine ground for suggesting Starmer must go, as the judgment involved in appointing Mandelson is seen to be wanting, politically, factually and morally. And, I should think there is no shortage of Labour people, to say nothing of media and oppositions, who will give the process a hand if they can.
What was Starmer thinking??
I can’t get my head around it. Such a monumental unforced error
Who made the decision? Who saw the vetting and said Yeah that’s fine. Who asked Mandy about jeff and what did they hear?
Yes. If I heard PMQs rightly, Starmer was already hiding behind the two great concepts of 'due process; and 'state secrecy'. Which suggests of course that there is a great deal we might want to know, and they don't want to tell us.
Let's be grateful for a free and inquisitive media.
Due process? - what crime has Mandelbrot committed, according to the PM?
BREAKING: Former FBI officials sue Kash Patel, alleging they were fired in part due to directives from the White House and social bullying from MAGA loyalists
But isn't the 'MAGA talking point' angle what makes it headline news? Sad to say but violent murders in America aren't hen's teeth.
I mean, what headline would you want to see?
Start with “A Shameful Day for America”, followed by a million words of Op-Ed that we saw after the death of George Floyd, and more recently the death of Jordan Neely, about how America is screwed and what we can do to make it better.
Ah so it's a "they had that so we want this" situation then. That's what I sensed with all this George Floyd talk. Ok, I get it.
Keir Starmer is standing by Lord Mandelson despite new leaked emails showing he urged Jeffrey Epstein to 'fight for early release' after child sex conviction
The prime minister retains confidence in Mandelson and his position has not changed since PMQs this afternoon
Yup, the murder of the Ukrainian girl has definitely breached social media. Loads of usually non-political people and large accounts are posting about it on Instagram and the comments are all pretty universal that the judge who let him walk needs to be held accountable for that decision as well as anger that the murder isn't getting mainstream coverage in the US.
Let's see how it trends but this feels like a lightning rod for racial tension in the US and crime, safety for women and the glib responses (hurt durr, president grab em by the p****) from media types on the latter are really, really hurting the left.
What's the best response to something you feel is intended to stoke up racial hatred?
(I agree that glibness isn't)
Stay quiet. Accept that this was a horrible crime and shut the fuck up, don't try and equivocate or point fingers at anyone other than the guilty party and his enablers in the justice system.
But what about the people trying to stoke a race war off the back of it? They surely have to be called out for this. You can't give that sort of shit a free pass. It would be spineless.
Keir Starmer is standing by Lord Mandelson despite new leaked emails showing he urged Jeffrey Epstein to 'fight for early release' after child sex conviction
The prime minister retains confidence in Mandelson and his position has not changed since PMQs this afternoon
Mandelson is going to have to resign. At which point the focus will shift to Starmer, and the perennial question. What did he know. And when did he know it.
Very Nixinesque. Can't remember how long it was between the start and Nixon Resigning.. ????
Yup, the murder of the Ukrainian girl has definitely breached social media. Loads of usually non-political people and large accounts are posting about it on Instagram and the comments are all pretty universal that the judge who let him walk needs to be held accountable for that decision as well as anger that the murder isn't getting mainstream coverage in the US.
Let's see how it trends but this feels like a lightning rod for racial tension in the US and crime, safety for women and the glib responses (hurt durr, president grab em by the p****) from media types on the latter are really, really hurting the left.
What's the best response to something you feel is intended to stoke up racial hatred?
(I agree that glibness isn't)
Stay quiet. Accept that this was a horrible crime and shut the fuck up, don't try and equivocate or point fingers at anyone other than the guilty party and his enablers in the justice system.
But what about the people trying to stoke a race war off the back of it? They surely have to be called out for this. You can't give that sort of shit a free pass. It would be spineless.
I wonder how much shit decent cops got off the back of George Floyd.
Yup, the murder of the Ukrainian girl has definitely breached social media. Loads of usually non-political people and large accounts are posting about it on Instagram and the comments are all pretty universal that the judge who let him walk needs to be held accountable for that decision as well as anger that the murder isn't getting mainstream coverage in the US.
Let's see how it trends but this feels like a lightning rod for racial tension in the US and crime, safety for women and the glib responses (hurt durr, president grab em by the p****) from media types on the latter are really, really hurting the left.
What's the best response to something you feel is intended to stoke up racial hatred?
(I agree that glibness isn't)
Stay quiet. Accept that this was a horrible crime and shut the fuck up, don't try and equivocate or point fingers at anyone other than the guilty party and his enablers in the justice system.
But what about the people trying to stoke a race war off the back of it? They surely have to be called out for this. You can't give that sort of shit a free pass. It would be spineless.
The people who tried to stoke a race war off the back of George Floyd got a free pass.
Yup, the murder of the Ukrainian girl has definitely breached social media. Loads of usually non-political people and large accounts are posting about it on Instagram and the comments are all pretty universal that the judge who let him walk needs to be held accountable for that decision as well as anger that the murder isn't getting mainstream coverage in the US.
Let's see how it trends but this feels like a lightning rod for racial tension in the US and crime, safety for women and the glib responses (hurt durr, president grab em by the p****) from media types on the latter are really, really hurting the left.
What's the best response to something you feel is intended to stoke up racial hatred?
(I agree that glibness isn't)
Stay quiet. Accept that this was a horrible crime and shut the fuck up, don't try and equivocate or point fingers at anyone other than the guilty party and his enablers in the justice system.
But what about the people trying to stoke a race war off the back of it? They surely have to be called out for this. You can't give that sort of shit a free pass. It would be spineless.
I wonder how much shit decent cops got off the back of George Floyd.
To be fair it was down to shit cops on the back of George Floyd.
Keir Starmer is standing by Lord Mandelson despite new leaked emails showing he urged Jeffrey Epstein to 'fight for early release' after child sex conviction
The prime minister retains confidence in Mandelson and his position has not changed since PMQs this afternoon
Yup, the murder of the Ukrainian girl has definitely breached social media. Loads of usually non-political people and large accounts are posting about it on Instagram and the comments are all pretty universal that the judge who let him walk needs to be held accountable for that decision as well as anger that the murder isn't getting mainstream coverage in the US.
Let's see how it trends but this feels like a lightning rod for racial tension in the US and crime, safety for women and the glib responses (hurt durr, president grab em by the p****) from media types on the latter are really, really hurting the left.
What's the best response to something you feel is intended to stoke up racial hatred?
(I agree that glibness isn't)
Stay quiet. Accept that this was a horrible crime and shut the fuck up, don't try and equivocate or point fingers at anyone other than the guilty party and his enablers in the justice system.
But what about the people trying to stoke a race war off the back of it? They surely have to be called out for this. You can't give that sort of shit a free pass. It would be spineless.
I wonder how much shit decent cops got off the back of George Floyd.
To be fair it was down to shit cops on the back of George Floyd.
Mandelson is going to have to resign. At which point the focus will shift to Starmer, and the perennial question. What did he know. And when did he know it.
Very Nixinesque. Can't remember how long it was between the start and Nixon Resigning.. ????
The only leader to emerge with any credit today was is Ed Davey. He asked the best question and didn't look sickly smug (Badenoch) or slippery and weak (Starmer). It's difficult not to feel the world is fiddling while Rome burns and there's bugger all any of our leaders are able to do about it.
Keir Starmer is standing by Lord Mandelson despite new leaked emails showing he urged Jeffrey Epstein to 'fight for early release' after child sex conviction
The prime minister retains confidence in Mandelson and his position has not changed since PMQs this afternoon
So this is what the grown ups being in charge looks like.
One term latest.
Starmer’s departure might actually be a huge boon to Labour. I mean, yes, there’s not really anyone else particularly inspiring on the front bench, but a new leader would be able to get rid of Reeves and try and draw a line under all the lawyerly two tier stuff. Not saying it would work, mind.
Would be very funny if Starmer was PM for less time than Rishi.
Who would replace Starmer? Rayner was his main rival.
Streeting probably is now amongst the PLP but is a Starmer loyalist
If Starmer falls over EpsteinGate then there better be vast stocks of popcorn in the warehouses.
We gonna need them.
If Starmer goes it will be the fifth sub-30 month PM in a row. And I expect if he goes he would be replaced by David Lammy until a leadership election takes place, who would be the sixth. I don't put Starmer's chance of resigning over this at greater than 25% though
So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
Labour has no soul, it's the home of robot lawyers and accountants
C'mon, what about us champagne socialists?
This place is madder than GBNews today. Apparently it is all over for Starmer on here.
Remarkably the same posters assuming Starmer is finished because Mandelson knew Epstein were defending Boris Johnson to the hilt.
I said last week Rayner would have to go.
I am not so sure Mandelson falls on his sword. Certainly not before Trump's visit. Sacking Mandelson over Epstein would be a snub to Trump. Although Harry Cole did say that Mandy's problem is he remained friends with Trump after his conviction. Trump of course turned out to be an FBI informant, who dobbed Epstein in the moment he found Epstein had a dodgy relationship with underage girls.
More Labour MPs are now going over the top calling publicly for Mandelson to go
This is Andy McDonald to @Telegraph : “I fail to see how our ambassador to the US can possibly continue in post.
"That he continued to engage with the paedophile Epstein after he was indicted, is simply staggering. If it’s right that in addition he was directly involved in business activity to the advantage of Epstein whilst he was Business Secretary, then that raises huge issues. If true, it is not only unacceptable it raises questions about whether he complied with the ministerial code.
"It is imperative that our nation’s representatives overseas can command trust and respect both in the nation they are posted to but here at home as well. The Prime Minister has said much about improving standards in public life and I trust he will take advice from the ethics adviser or other such independent person.
"It seems clear from the information already in the public domain, and is accepted as being accurate by Peter Mandelson himself, that his time as our ambassador to the US is up. Either he does the right thing by stepping down and saves the Prime Minister and the country any further embarrassment. If he does not, he should be fired.”
The only leader to emerge with any credit today was is Ed Davey. He asked the best question and didn't look sickly smug (Badenoch) or slippery and weak (Starmer). It's difficult not to feel the world is fiddling while Rome burns and there's bugger all any of our leaders are able to do about it.
Nonsense
For once it is widely accepted Badenoch had her best outing and won 6-0
Anyway. Here’s to Petey’s yummy diplomatic career, from the Supramonte mountains of Sardinia
Cheers from Manchester's Victoria station. Where a cheerful dog wanders hopefully among us, Squeeze's "Cool for Cats" is on the stereo, the middle aged couple at the next table are endearingly fond of each other, and no-one appears to care that the train to Stalybridge is delayed.
EDIT: It's Fugazi's "Waiting Room" now. EDIT again: "Channel Z" by the B52s.
So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
Labour has no soul, it's the home of robot lawyers and accountants
C'mon, what about us champagne socialists?
This place is madder than GBNews today. Apparently it is all over for Starmer on here.
Remarkably the same posters assuming Starmer is finished because Mandelson knew Epstein were defending Boris Johnson to the hilt.
I said last week Rayner would have to go.
I am not so sure Mandelson falls on his sword. Certainly not before Trump's visit. Sacking Mandelson over Epstein would be a snub to Trump. Although Harry Cole did say that Mandy's problem is he remained friends with Trump after his conviction. Trump of course turned out to be an FBI informant, who dobbed Epstein in the moment he found Epstein had a dodgy relationship with underage girls.
The question is how long Mandelson can survive, given pressures on the PM from within UK politics.
So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
Labour has no soul, it's the home of robot lawyers and accountants
C'mon, what about us champagne socialists?
This place is madder than GBNews today. Apparently it is all over for Starmer on here.
Remarkably the same posters assuming Starmer is finished because Mandelson knew Epstein were defending Boris Johnson to the hilt.
I said last week Rayner would have to go.
I am not so sure Mandelson falls on his sword. Certainly not before Trump's visit. Sacking Mandelson over Epstein would be a snub to Trump. Although Harry Cole did say that Mandy's problem is he remained friends with Trump after his conviction. Trump of course turned out to be an FBI informant, who dobbed Epstein in the moment he found Epstein had a dodgy relationship with underage girls.
The question is how long Mandelson can survive, given pressures on the PM from within UK politics.
@KevinASchofield BREAKING: Bridget Phillipson easily gets more than 80 nominations to put her into the next round of the Labour deputy leadership election.
Starmer is lucky the BBC haven’t put the PMQs footage on the Mandelson/Epstein story.
What is the Mandelso/Epstein story except for some prurience by a few second rate hacks. Has he done something illegal? I loathe Trump so would be delighted to have someone less sycophantic representing UK interests but that's nothing to do with Epstein. This guilt by association is pretty tabloid and unattractive,
When you accept the hospitality of someone who has just been convicted of a serious sexual offence, well, as the saying goes:
"Lie down with dogs, and pick up fleas."
It depends whether it was before or after.
Well now we know.
Yes we know. Petey held Jeffrey’s hand through the court battles and beyond that convicted him as a peedo. Incredible. Like some human centipede pyramid scheme “Petey” tried to get Tony in the same photo as Jeffrey.
“White Knight” Starmer knew all this, and the possibility of it all coming out, when making him British Ambassador.
Starmer has to go. Labour won’t have a single voter left this time next week.
So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
Labour has no soul, it's the home of robot lawyers and accountants
C'mon, what about us champagne socialists?
This place is madder than GBNews today. Apparently it is all over for Starmer on here.
Remarkably the same posters assuming Starmer is finished because Mandelson knew Epstein were defending Boris Johnson to the hilt.
I said last week Rayner would have to go.
I am not so sure Mandelson falls on his sword. Certainly not before Trump's visit. Sacking Mandelson over Epstein would be a snub to Trump. Although Harry Cole did say that Mandy's problem is he remained friends with Trump after his conviction. Trump of course turned out to be an FBI informant, who dobbed Epstein in the moment he found Epstein had a dodgy relationship with underage girls.
If Trump was an FBI informant on Epstein, then why is he so reluctant to publish the pedo-files? Surely these would exonerate him.
And if it is unacceptable to have a friend of Epstein as ambassador, why is it OK to give another massive friend of Epstein a formal State Visit to the King and to Parliament?
The only leader to emerge with any credit today was is Ed Davey. He asked the best question and didn't look sickly smug (Badenoch) or slippery and weak (Starmer). It's difficult not to feel the world is fiddling while Rome burns and there's bugger all any of our leaders are able to do about it.
Don't say that in front of @Taz - he'll get upset.
So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
Labour has no soul, it's the home of robot lawyers and accountants
C'mon, what about us champagne socialists?
This place is madder than GBNews today. Apparently it is all over for Starmer on here.
Remarkably the same posters assuming Starmer is finished because Mandelson knew Epstein were defending Boris Johnson to the hilt.
I said last week Rayner would have to go.
I am not so sure Mandelson falls on his sword. Certainly not before Trump's visit. Sacking Mandelson over Epstein would be a snub to Trump. Although Harry Cole did say that Mandy's problem is he remained friends with Trump after his conviction. Trump of course turned out to be an FBI informant, who dobbed Epstein in the moment he found Epstein had a dodgy relationship with underage girls.
The question is how long Mandelson can survive, given pressures on the PM from within UK politics.
The informant thing depends on believing Trump.
I have a really nice bridge, one careful owner…
Starmer is toast. I read it on PB.
At times you try to defend the indefensible
Why not hold your hand up and agree we cannot have a US Ambassador as closely associated with Epstein as Prince Andrew and Donald Trump
And this is a widely held view across politics even if you are unhappy about it
@KevinASchofield BREAKING: Bridget Phillipson easily gets more than 80 nominations to put her into the next round of the Labour deputy leadership election.
Starmer is lucky the BBC haven’t put the PMQs footage on the Mandelson/Epstein story.
What is the Mandelso/Epstein story except for some prurience by a few second rate hacks. Has he done something illegal? I loathe Trump so would be delighted to have someone less sycophantic representing UK interests but that's nothing to do with Epstein. This guilt by association is pretty tabloid and unattractive,
When you accept the hospitality of someone who has just been convicted of a serious sexual offence, well, as the saying goes:
"Lie down with dogs, and pick up fleas."
It depends whether it was before or after.
Well now we know.
Yes we know. Petey held Jeffrey’s hand through the court battles and beyond that convicted him as a peedo. Incredible. Like some human centipede pyramid scheme “Petey” tried to get Tony in the same photo as Jeffrey.
@KevinASchofield BREAKING: Bridget Phillipson easily gets more than 80 nominations to put her into the next round of the Labour deputy leadership election.
I'm surprised and delighted that Thornberry got so few. I'd have expected her mix of Gaza, sneering and wealth taxes to have gone down rather better with the PLP. There is hope yet.
So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
Labour has no soul, it's the home of robot lawyers and accountants
C'mon, what about us champagne socialists?
This place is madder than GBNews today. Apparently it is all over for Starmer on here.
Remarkably the same posters assuming Starmer is finished because Mandelson knew Epstein were defending Boris Johnson to the hilt.
I said last week Rayner would have to go.
I am not so sure Mandelson falls on his sword. Certainly not before Trump's visit. Sacking Mandelson over Epstein would be a snub to Trump. Although Harry Cole did say that Mandy's problem is he remained friends with Trump after his conviction. Trump of course turned out to be an FBI informant, who dobbed Epstein in the moment he found Epstein had a dodgy relationship with underage girls.
The question is how long Mandelson can survive, given pressures on the PM from within UK politics.
The informant thing depends on believing Trump.
I have a really nice bridge, one careful owner…
Starmer is toast. I read it on PB.
If the story about him standing by Mandlebrot is true, *Starmer* thinks that losing Mandy *might* end up with Starmer going down.
The only leader to emerge with any credit today was is Ed Davey. He asked the best question and didn't look sickly smug (Badenoch) or slippery and weak (Starmer). It's difficult not to feel the world is fiddling while Rome burns and there's bugger all any of our leaders are able to do about it.
Nonsense
For once it is widely accepted Badenoch had her best outing and won 6-0
I think given what was going on it would have been hard for Badenoch not to win 6-0. More open goals than a Moldovan defence (too soon?) and even she couldn't miss those.
Whether it advances her cause as the next Prime Minister I'm not sure - it's been a febrile day in one way or another and these things quickly get forgotten in the warp and weft of current affairs.
So this is what the grown ups being in charge looks like.
One term latest.
Starmer’s departure might actually be a huge boon to Labour. I mean, yes, there’s not really anyone else particularly inspiring on the front bench, but a new leader would be able to get rid of Reeves and try and draw a line under all the lawyerly two tier stuff. Not saying it would work, mind.
Would be very funny if Starmer was PM for less time than Rishi.
Who would replace Starmer? Rayner was his main rival.
Streeting probably is now amongst the PLP but is a Starmer loyalist
If Starmer falls over EpsteinGate then there better be vast stocks of popcorn in the warehouses.
We gonna need them.
If Starmer goes it will be the fifth sub-30 month PM in a row. And I expect if he goes he would be replaced by David Lammy until a leadership election takes place, who would be the sixth. I don't put Starmer's chance of resigning over this at greater than 25% though
No, the third. May and Boris both lasted 3 years plus
So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
Labour has no soul, it's the home of robot lawyers and accountants
C'mon, what about us champagne socialists?
This place is madder than GBNews today. Apparently it is all over for Starmer on here.
Remarkably the same posters assuming Starmer is finished because Mandelson knew Epstein were defending Boris Johnson to the hilt.
I said last week Rayner would have to go.
I am not so sure Mandelson falls on his sword. Certainly not before Trump's visit. Sacking Mandelson over Epstein would be a snub to Trump. Although Harry Cole did say that Mandy's problem is he remained friends with Trump after his conviction. Trump of course turned out to be an FBI informant, who dobbed Epstein in the moment he found Epstein had a dodgy relationship with underage girls.
If Trump was an FBI informant on Epstein, then why is he so reluctant to publish the pedo-files? Surely these would exonerate him.
And if it is unacceptable to have a friend of Epstein as ambassador, why is it OK to give another massive friend of Epstein a formal State Visit to the King and to Parliament?
@KevinASchofield BREAKING: Bridget Phillipson easily gets more than 80 nominations to put her into the next round of the Labour deputy leadership election.
Easy to call it. Just like the Liz Truss election, Useless Lucy gets into next phase the Unions and Labour Members will place a tiara of Deputy Leadership on her head. Though they will have to watch out for the dandruff.
The only leader to emerge with any credit today was is Ed Davey. He asked the best question and didn't look sickly smug (Badenoch) or slippery and weak (Starmer). It's difficult not to feel the world is fiddling while Rome burns and there's bugger all any of our leaders are able to do about it.
Nonsense
For once it is widely accepted Badenoch had her best outing and won 6-0
You've been smashing it out of the park too BigG.
If Starmer falls, your reporting on PB won't go unrewarded.
@KevinASchofield BREAKING: Bridget Phillipson easily gets more than 80 nominations to put her into the next round of the Labour deputy leadership election.
I'm surprised and delighted that Thornberry got so few. I'd have expected her mix of Gaza, sneering and wealth taxes to have gone down rather better with the PLP. There is hope yet.
I wonder if the three stooges will agree one of them to take forward if they can pick up another 38 noms
Reduce the number of MPs and Lords but give them much higher salaries. So they have less inclination to sleaze and much smarter people will try for the job
Right now we are ruled by morons as only morons fancy an underpaid career where they might get sacked any moment
For evidence, see Keir Starmer, a moron
I was having a discussion about this with my dad over the weekend because he brought up how shit politicians are these days and I pointed out that being an MP isn't a well paid job compared to what people can get in a large number of industries in the UK now. Someone finance, tech, engineering, big pharma, medicine/dentistry, biotech, media and many others can all out earn an MP with middle ranking individual contributor jobs. If I became an MP it would work out to an over 50% pay cut for me which I can't afford and it's a job that I think carries more responsibility than my current one so why should I take such a huge pay cut for more responsibility plus have to deal with the public on a daily basis and have my whole life put under a microscope. Nah, I'm ok.
MPs are in the top 5% of earners, fine for a backbencher. The PM and Cabinet are just outside the top 1% of earners so should be paid more so they are at least in the top 1% for the responsibilities they hold
In the early 20th Century, the Prime Minister got £10,000 a year, Cabinet Ministers £5,000 a year, and MPs were unpaid. Winston Churchill famously had to close part of his home at the Admiralty because he could not afford the full retinue of servants. Posh but impoverished, depending on journalism and subs from rich friends, Churchill was very much the Boris Johnson of his day.
In modern money this is about £1,500,000 and £750,000 a year according to Copilot although estimates vary.
The only leader to emerge with any credit today was is Ed Davey. He asked the best question and didn't look sickly smug (Badenoch) or slippery and weak (Starmer). It's difficult not to feel the world is fiddling while Rome burns and there's bugger all any of our leaders are able to do about it.
Nonsense
For once it is widely accepted Badenoch had her best outing and won 6-0
You've been smashing it out of the park too BigG.
If Starmer falls, your reporting on PB won't go unrewarded.
BigG wobbles his lip but would vote for a pigs bladder on a stick if it had a blue rosette.
The only leader to emerge with any credit today was is Ed Davey. He asked the best question and didn't look sickly smug (Badenoch) or slippery and weak (Starmer). It's difficult not to feel the world is fiddling while Rome burns and there's bugger all any of our leaders are able to do about it.
Nonsense
For once it is widely accepted Badenoch had her best outing and won 6-0
You've been smashing it out of the park too BigG.
If Starmer falls, your reporting on PB won't go unrewarded.
PB commenters who watch TV news and relay it in their comments here are very useful to those of us who stick to the news websites during these kind of stories. You get a much better sense of which way the story might be going.
So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
Labour has no soul, it's the home of robot lawyers and accountants
C'mon, what about us champagne socialists?
This place is madder than GBNews today. Apparently it is all over for Starmer on here.
Remarkably the same posters assuming Starmer is finished because Mandelson knew Epstein were defending Boris Johnson to the hilt.
I said last week Rayner would have to go.
I am not so sure Mandelson falls on his sword. Certainly not before Trump's visit. Sacking Mandelson over Epstein would be a snub to Trump. Although Harry Cole did say that Mandy's problem is he remained friends with Trump after his conviction. Trump of course turned out to be an FBI informant, who dobbed Epstein in the moment he found Epstein had a dodgy relationship with underage girls.
I don’t think it’s over for Starmer but I do think this is particularly dangerous for the government from an optics standpoint at the very least and with more to come (and don’t take my word for it - take Mandelson’s) the drip drip is going to become very uncomfortable. And it is entirely possible it turns into a question of Starmer’s judgement - then these things have a habit of snowballing.
I think Mandelson is a goner, because despite any awkward situation arising in the US the pressure domestically will start to reach boiling point. Starmer can’t have another moment like he did at PMQs today - it was a terrible look and the worst he has ever performed in the House by some margin.
The only leader to emerge with any credit today was is Ed Davey. He asked the best question and didn't look sickly smug (Badenoch) or slippery and weak (Starmer). It's difficult not to feel the world is fiddling while Rome burns and there's bugger all any of our leaders are able to do about it.
Don't say that in front of @Taz - he'll get upset.
I thought Badenoch did fine. I saw it on YouTube,
I did not see The Hammer of the Sub Postmasters questions so cannot comment but if Rogerdamus thought they were ace, they must be 😉
@KevinASchofield BREAKING: Bridget Phillipson easily gets more than 80 nominations to put her into the next round of the Labour deputy leadership election.
Easy to call it. Just like the Liz Truss election, Useless Lucy gets into next phase the Unions and Labour Members will place a tiara of Deputy Leadership on her head. Though they will have to watch out for the dandruff.
Did you see Phillipson speaking at the TUC? She has it in the bag.
So this is what the grown ups being in charge looks like.
One term latest.
Starmer’s departure might actually be a huge boon to Labour. I mean, yes, there’s not really anyone else particularly inspiring on the front bench, but a new leader would be able to get rid of Reeves and try and draw a line under all the lawyerly two tier stuff. Not saying it would work, mind.
Would be very funny if Starmer was PM for less time than Rishi.
Who would replace Starmer? Rayner was his main rival.
Streeting probably is now amongst the PLP but is a Starmer loyalist
If Starmer falls over EpsteinGate then there better be vast stocks of popcorn in the warehouses.
We gonna need them.
If Starmer goes it will be the fifth sub-30 month PM in a row. And I expect if he goes he would be replaced by David Lammy until a leadership election takes place, who would be the sixth. I don't put Starmer's chance of resigning over this at greater than 25% though
Lammy as PM... the thought is just too hideous to contemplate.
For anyone bored with Mandy, there is a very good (so far) documentary series on IPlayer about the piper alpha disaster.
Uses a small amount of drama which I don’t usually like in documentaries but it works very well here to demonstrate the conditions before and during but also actors portraying the statements to the Inquiry.
On Mandaygate, it boils down to the old old question.
What did he know and when did he know it?
In Mandelson's case, it could be argued that schmoozing terrible people is the job description of an ambassador to America, particularly a Trumpian America. But the latest round of revelations goes beyond that, surely.
As for Starmer, if he knew this and appointed Mandy anyway, that also ought to be fatal. Whatever happened to the old "is there anything else you haven't mentioned that would bring shame and disgrace on us all if it emerged" question? It would have saved everyone so much bother over the last decade or so.
(I know... politics is precision-configured to appeal to reckless thrill seekers who assume they don't have to follow the rules... But Sheesh.)
So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
Labour has no soul, it's the home of robot lawyers and accountants
C'mon, what about us champagne socialists?
This place is madder than GBNews today. Apparently it is all over for Starmer on here.
Remarkably the same posters assuming Starmer is finished because Mandelson knew Epstein were defending Boris Johnson to the hilt.
I said last week Rayner would have to go.
I am not so sure Mandelson falls on his sword. Certainly not before Trump's visit. Sacking Mandelson over Epstein would be a snub to Trump. Although Harry Cole did say that Mandy's problem is he remained friends with Trump after his conviction. Trump of course turned out to be an FBI informant, who dobbed Epstein in the moment he found Epstein had a dodgy relationship with underage girls.
The question is how long Mandelson can survive, given pressures on the PM from within UK politics.
The informant thing depends on believing Trump.
I have a really nice bridge, one careful owner…
Starmer is toast. I read it on PB.
If the story about him standing by Mandlebrot is true, *Starmer* thinks that losing Mandy *might* end up with Starmer going down.
My autocorrect changed "Mandelson" to the word you used. Isn't it anti-Semitic?
The only leader to emerge with any credit today was is Ed Davey. He asked the best question and didn't look sickly smug (Badenoch) or slippery and weak (Starmer). It's difficult not to feel the world is fiddling while Rome burns and there's bugger all any of our leaders are able to do about it.
Nonsense
For once it is widely accepted Badenoch had her best outing and won 6-0
You've been smashing it out of the park too BigG.
If Starmer falls, your reporting on PB won't go unrewarded.
PB commenters who watch TV news and relay it in their comments here are very useful to those of us who stick to the news websites during these kind of stories. You get a much better sense of which way the story might be going.
I watch Sky and post breaking stories from them often with the link as they tend to be first but also are generally reliable
Now that upsets some but that is the nature of politics but I am aware this is a betting site and would not intentionally post dubious information
And I read all the news media where I can
I am an elderly person with limited mobility so have more time than most to post news stories
So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
Labour has no soul, it's the home of robot lawyers and accountants
C'mon, what about us champagne socialists?
This place is madder than GBNews today. Apparently it is all over for Starmer on here.
Remarkably the same posters assuming Starmer is finished because Mandelson knew Epstein were defending Boris Johnson to the hilt.
I said last week Rayner would have to go.
I am not so sure Mandelson falls on his sword. Certainly not before Trump's visit. Sacking Mandelson over Epstein would be a snub to Trump. Although Harry Cole did say that Mandy's problem is he remained friends with Trump after his conviction. Trump of course turned out to be an FBI informant, who dobbed Epstein in the moment he found Epstein had a dodgy relationship with underage girls.
The question is how long Mandelson can survive, given pressures on the PM from within UK politics.
Anyway. Here’s to Petey’s yummy diplomatic career, from the Supramonte mountains of Sardinia
Cheers from Manchester's Victoria station. Where a cheerful dog wanders hopefully among us, Squeeze's "Cool for Cats" is on the stereo, the middle aged couple at the next table are endearingly fond of each other, and no-one appears to care that the train to Stalybridge is delayed.
EDIT: It's Fugazi's "Waiting Room" now. EDIT again: "Channel Z" by the B52s.
I can't shiw you without breaching my quota but it is suddenly rammed. The woman in the animal print top has been joined by two more women in animal print tops and two men with moustaches. All the remaing seats are suddenly taken. A rather glossy looking woman in a leather jacket has sat next to me, exuding perfume. A man in needlessly enormous trousers and a horrible pink jumper is fruitlessly trying to attract the attention of the barmaid. Maybe these are the people who have given up trying to get to Stalybridge. The dog is now nowhere to be seen. We have been through David Bowie's "Young Americans" and are now onto Talking Heads' "Life During Wartime".
@KevinASchofield BREAKING: Bridget Phillipson easily gets more than 80 nominations to put her into the next round of the Labour deputy leadership election.
Easy to call it. Just like the Liz Truss election, Useless Lucy gets into next phase the Unions and Labour Members will place a tiara of Deputy Leadership on her head. Though they will have to watch out for the dandruff.
Did you see Phillipson speaking at the TUC? She has it in the bag.
The only leader to emerge with any credit today was is Ed Davey. He asked the best question and didn't look sickly smug (Badenoch) or slippery and weak (Starmer). It's difficult not to feel the world is fiddling while Rome burns and there's bugger all any of our leaders are able to do about it.
Nonsense
For once it is widely accepted Badenoch had her best outing and won 6-0
You've been smashing it out of the park too BigG.
If Starmer falls, your reporting on PB won't go unrewarded.
BigG wobbles his lip but would vote for a pigs bladder on a stick if it had a blue rosette.
So this is what the grown ups being in charge looks like.
One term latest.
Starmer’s departure might actually be a huge boon to Labour. I mean, yes, there’s not really anyone else particularly inspiring on the front bench, but a new leader would be able to get rid of Reeves and try and draw a line under all the lawyerly two tier stuff. Not saying it would work, mind.
Would be very funny if Starmer was PM for less time than Rishi.
Who would replace Starmer? Rayner was his main rival.
Streeting probably is now amongst the PLP but is a Starmer loyalist
If Starmer falls over EpsteinGate then there better be vast stocks of popcorn in the warehouses.
We gonna need them.
If Starmer goes it will be the fifth sub-30 month PM in a row. And I expect if he goes he would be replaced by David Lammy until a leadership election takes place, who would be the sixth. I don't put Starmer's chance of resigning over this at greater than 25% though
Lammy as PM... the thought is just too hideous to contemplate.
A black PM and LotO - MAGA heads will explode...also, Reform.
So this is what the grown ups being in charge looks like.
One term latest.
Starmer’s departure might actually be a huge boon to Labour. I mean, yes, there’s not really anyone else particularly inspiring on the front bench, but a new leader would be able to get rid of Reeves and try and draw a line under all the lawyerly two tier stuff. Not saying it would work, mind.
Would be very funny if Starmer was PM for less time than Rishi.
Who would replace Starmer? Rayner was his main rival.
Streeting probably is now amongst the PLP but is a Starmer loyalist
If Starmer falls over EpsteinGate then there better be vast stocks of popcorn in the warehouses.
We gonna need them.
If Starmer goes it will be the fifth sub-30 month PM in a row. And I expect if he goes he would be replaced by David Lammy until a leadership election takes place, who would be the sixth. I don't put Starmer's chance of resigning over this at greater than 25% though
No, the third. May and Boris both lasted 3 years plus
You're right - I take it back. Fifth sub-4-year PM. Less interesting than I thought.
Anyway. Here’s to Petey’s yummy diplomatic career, from the Supramonte mountains of Sardinia
Cheers from Manchester's Victoria station. Where a cheerful dog wanders hopefully among us, Squeeze's "Cool for Cats" is on the stereo, the middle aged couple at the next table are endearingly fond of each other, and no-one appears to care that the train to Stalybridge is delayed.
EDIT: It's Fugazi's "Waiting Room" now. EDIT again: "Channel Z" by the B52s.
I can't shiw you without breaching my quota but it is suddenly rammed. The woman in the animal print top has been joined by two more women in animal print tops and two men with moustaches. All the remaing seats are suddenly taken. A rather glossy looking woman in a leather jacket has sat next to me, exuding perfume. A man in needlessly enormous trousers and a horrible pink jumper is fruitlessly trying to attract the attention of the barmaid. Maybe these are the people who have given up trying to get to Stalybridge. The dog is now nowhere to be seen. We have been through David Bowie's "Young Americans" and are now onto Talking Heads' "Life During Wartime".
EDIT: Public Image Ltd: "Rise"
What's that on the dog's weskit? It's not part of the bar staff, is it?
The only leader to emerge with any credit today was is Ed Davey. He asked the best question and didn't look sickly smug (Badenoch) or slippery and weak (Starmer). It's difficult not to feel the world is fiddling while Rome burns and there's bugger all any of our leaders are able to do about it.
Nonsense
For once it is widely accepted Badenoch had her best outing and won 6-0
You've been smashing it out of the park too BigG.
If Starmer falls, your reporting on PB won't go unrewarded.
PB commenters who watch TV news and relay it in their comments here are very useful to those of us who stick to the news websites during these kind of stories. You get a much better sense of which way the story might be going.
I watch Sky and post breaking stories from them often with the link as they tend to be first but also are generally reliable
Now that upsets some but that is the nature of politics but I am aware this is a betting site and would not intentionally post dubious information
And I read all the news media where I can
I am an elderly person with limited mobility so have more time than most to post news stories
It's all appreciated, Big G. As is your personal perspective.
History shows it's unwise to write off Peter Mandelson but this time might well be the end.
As for Starmer, if we got rid of every PM who showed bad judgement, No.10 would need a revolving door. Indeed, only just after becoming PM, Blair had issues via his relationship with Bernie Ecclestone so it happens all the time.
Unless there's actual evidence of wrongdoing on the part of Starmer (and God knows, if everyone who was ever stupid had to quit there'd be no work done anywhere), the PM is quite safe. It's well past worrying about his "reputation" - I think that ship sailed months ago.
Adding to that is the sheer difficulty of getting out a Labour PM absent an election - unless Starmer chooses to go, I don't see how he could be compelled or persuaded to go.
The only other aspect is I hope the Conservatives are squeaky clean on their links to Epstein and Mandelson otherwise any political advantage from this will quickly dissipate.
The only leader to emerge with any credit today was is Ed Davey. He asked the best question and didn't look sickly smug (Badenoch) or slippery and weak (Starmer). It's difficult not to feel the world is fiddling while Rome burns and there's bugger all any of our leaders are able to do about it.
Nonsense
For once it is widely accepted Badenoch had her best outing and won 6-0
You've been smashing it out of the park too BigG.
If Starmer falls, your reporting on PB won't go unrewarded.
PB commenters who watch TV news and relay it in their comments here are very useful to those of us who stick to the news websites during these kind of stories. You get a much better sense of which way the story might be going.
BBC News at Six will likely get between 3 and 4 million viewers. TV news is not the force it once was.
So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
Labour has no soul, it's the home of robot lawyers and accountants
C'mon, what about us champagne socialists?
This place is madder than GBNews today. Apparently it is all over for Starmer on here.
Remarkably the same posters assuming Starmer is finished because Mandelson knew Epstein were defending Boris Johnson to the hilt.
I said last week Rayner would have to go.
I am not so sure Mandelson falls on his sword. Certainly not before Trump's visit. Sacking Mandelson over Epstein would be a snub to Trump. Although Harry Cole did say that Mandy's problem is he remained friends with Trump after his conviction. Trump of course turned out to be an FBI informant, who dobbed Epstein in the moment he found Epstein had a dodgy relationship with underage girls.
The question is how long Mandelson can survive, given pressures on the PM from within UK politics.
The informant thing depends on believing Trump.
I have a really nice bridge, one careful owner…
Starmer is toast. I read it on PB.
If the story about him standing by Mandlebrot is true, *Starmer* thinks that losing Mandy *might* end up with Starmer going down.
My autocorrect changed "Mandelson" to the word you used. Isn't it anti-Semitic?
I'd assumed it was a joke based on the Mandelbrot Set - the equation (to cut a long story short) which is as complicated as ever the more you zoom in. A sort of equivalent of Mr Cummings famously alleged to be playing politics like 20-dimensional chess.
If Starmer DOES have to resign, then the person who will be sobbing untrollably over his demise?
Rayner...
Mandelson may have to resign, Starmer certainly won't
Really? Then how does Starmer get out of the position of knowing all this when making the appointment?
It’s a definite resigning matter for Starmer. He has lost his own party members, MPs, supporters in press, not over his continued support for Mandleson, but for the fact he knew all this in first place when appointing him.
The Pincher comparison is a good one here. Obviously it is not quite the same thing as there’s no allegations of wrongdoing, more poor/bad moral and ethical judgement, but there are parallels around who knew what when etc.
It’s far worse than the Boris years - so dodged a bit of tax, lied, groped an intern? just tough it out.
What we have with Starmer and Mandy is a cover up. A decision made, but how and why, who knew what and when, must remain a secret. It’s the cover up that has cost Starmer his job.
As a Mandelson-sceptic who has been predicting Starmer's early retirement for the past year, I must say I am doubtful that forcing out the Washington Ambassador best known as a mate of Tony Blair (as well as Epstein) will be seen as a great blow to Labour. I do not think there is any great enthusiasm for Mandelson even in Labour ranks.
The only leader to emerge with any credit today was is Ed Davey. He asked the best question and didn't look sickly smug (Badenoch) or slippery and weak (Starmer). It's difficult not to feel the world is fiddling while Rome burns and there's bugger all any of our leaders are able to do about it.
Nonsense
For once it is widely accepted Badenoch had her best outing and won 6-0
You've been smashing it out of the park too BigG.
If Starmer falls, your reporting on PB won't go unrewarded.
PB commenters who watch TV news and relay it in their comments here are very useful to those of us who stick to the news websites during these kind of stories. You get a much better sense of which way the story might be going.
I watch Sky and post breaking stories from them often with the link as they tend to be first but also are generally reliable
Now that upsets some but that is the nature of politics but I am aware this is a betting site and would not intentionally post dubious information
And I read all the news media where I can
I am an elderly person with limited mobility so have more time than most to post news stories
It's all appreciated, Big G. As is your personal perspective.
So Phillipson is Healey and Powell is Benn. A battle for the soul of the party. I'll vote Phillipson, I think. I'm long of her for next leader at 28.
Labour has no soul, it's the home of robot lawyers and accountants
C'mon, what about us champagne socialists?
This place is madder than GBNews today. Apparently it is all over for Starmer on here.
Remarkably the same posters assuming Starmer is finished because Mandelson knew Epstein were defending Boris Johnson to the hilt.
I said last week Rayner would have to go.
I am not so sure Mandelson falls on his sword. Certainly not before Trump's visit. Sacking Mandelson over Epstein would be a snub to Trump. Although Harry Cole did say that Mandy's problem is he remained friends with Trump after his conviction. Trump of course turned out to be an FBI informant, who dobbed Epstein in the moment he found Epstein had a dodgy relationship with underage girls.
The question is how long Mandelson can survive, given pressures on the PM from within UK politics.
The informant thing depends on believing Trump.
I have a really nice bridge, one careful owner…
Starmer is toast. I read it on PB.
If the story about him standing by Mandlebrot is true, *Starmer* thinks that losing Mandy *might* end up with Starmer going down.
My autocorrect changed "Mandelson" to the word you used. Isn't it anti-Semitic?
Mandelson and Mandlebrot are both extremely Jewish names. It was first coined by Private Eye as a comment on the torturous explanations for his serial resignations from public life. See Benoit Mandelbrot and Chaos Mathematics.
Anyway. Here’s to Petey’s yummy diplomatic career, from the Supramonte mountains of Sardinia
Cheers from Manchester's Victoria station. Where a cheerful dog wanders hopefully among us, Squeeze's "Cool for Cats" is on the stereo, the middle aged couple at the next table are endearingly fond of each other, and no-one appears to care that the train to Stalybridge is delayed.
EDIT: It's Fugazi's "Waiting Room" now. EDIT again: "Channel Z" by the B52s.
I can't shiw you without breaching my quota but it is suddenly rammed. The woman in the animal print top has been joined by two more women in animal print tops and two men with moustaches. All the remaing seats are suddenly taken. A rather glossy looking woman in a leather jacket has sat next to me, exuding perfume. A man in needlessly enormous trousers and a horrible pink jumper is fruitlessly trying to attract the attention of the barmaid. Maybe these are the people who have given up trying to get to Stalybridge. The dog is now nowhere to be seen. We have been through David Bowie's "Young Americans" and are now onto Talking Heads' "Life During Wartime".
It's beginning to look as though Putin's "drone test" may have backfired (so to speak).
All it has done has pushed the Europeans closer to Ukraine and Trump closer to Europe which I suspect wasn't the aim but could have been foreseeable by any kind of analysis.
I can only think Putin was emboldened by his closeness to China and North Korea at the military parade last week and perhaps some of Kim or Xi's advisers suggested this as a ploy to sow discord in Europe and with the US.
Calls for Mandelson to be sacked from Labour MPs growing but so far restricted to the awkward squad - Burgon, McDonnell, Andy MacDonald, that Liverpool MP whis nane has escaped me....... McDonnell of course is suspended
Anyway. Here’s to Petey’s yummy diplomatic career, from the Supramonte mountains of Sardinia
Cheers from Manchester's Victoria station. Where a cheerful dog wanders hopefully among us, Squeeze's "Cool for Cats" is on the stereo, the middle aged couple at the next table are endearingly fond of each other, and no-one appears to care that the train to Stalybridge is delayed.
EDIT: It's Fugazi's "Waiting Room" now. EDIT again: "Channel Z" by the B52s.
I can't shiw you without breaching my quota but it is suddenly rammed. The woman in the animal print top has been joined by two more women in animal print tops and two men with moustaches. All the remaing seats are suddenly taken. A rather glossy looking woman in a leather jacket has sat next to me, exuding perfume. A man in needlessly enormous trousers and a horrible pink jumper is fruitlessly trying to attract the attention of the barmaid. Maybe these are the people who have given up trying to get to Stalybridge. The dog is now nowhere to be seen. We have been through David Bowie's "Young Americans" and are now onto Talking Heads' "Life During Wartime".
EDIT: Public Image Ltd: "Rise"
What's that on the dog's weskit? It's not part of the bar staff, is it?
Genuine lol. He's not pulling his weight if he is, unless his role is angling for snacks.
Trump says all the time that if he were president then, Putin would not have gone into Ukraine. Now Trump IS president, and Putin, emboldened by Trump's equivocations, has gone into Poland!
History shows it's unwise to write off Peter Mandelson but this time might well be the end.
As for Starmer, if we got rid of every PM who showed bad judgement, No.10 would need a revolving door. Indeed, only just after becoming PM, Blair had issues via his relationship with Bernie Ecclestone so it happens all the time.
Unless there's actual evidence of wrongdoing on the part of Starmer (and God knows, if everyone who was ever stupid had to quit there'd be no work done anywhere), the PM is quite safe. It's well past worrying about his "reputation" - I think that ship sailed months ago.
Adding to that is the sheer difficulty of getting out a Labour PM absent an election - unless Starmer chooses to go, I don't see how he could be compelled or persuaded to go.
The only other aspect is I hope the Conservatives are squeaky clean on their links to Epstein and Mandelson otherwise any political advantage from this will quickly dissipate.
The email supporting Epstein as a victim, after Epstein’s conviction is the killer, I think.
It means he knew and carried on his association. There’s no way to argue he was unaware of the facts, proven in a court of law.
Frankly, I don’t care who/whom gets caught in the firing line. One way to stop future Epstein's is to disgrace everyone in his circle. Then people will be more careful next time. Time was, that such a scandal would drive people out of public life.
On a busy day, horse racing's protest against the proposed harmonisation of betting duty and remote gaming duty seems to have been slightly overshadowed.
I don't think it looks good when your only parliamentary backers seem to be Conservatives. Liberal Democrat and some Labour MPs have also joined the opposition to the Budget proposal.
Anyway. Here’s to Petey’s yummy diplomatic career, from the Supramonte mountains of Sardinia
Cheers from Manchester's Victoria station. Where a cheerful dog wanders hopefully among us, Squeeze's "Cool for Cats" is on the stereo, the middle aged couple at the next table are endearingly fond of each other, and no-one appears to care that the train to Stalybridge is delayed.
EDIT: It's Fugazi's "Waiting Room" now. EDIT again: "Channel Z" by the B52s.
I can't shiw you without breaching my quota but it is suddenly rammed. The woman in the animal print top has been joined by two more women in animal print tops and two men with moustaches. All the remaing seats are suddenly taken. A rather glossy looking woman in a leather jacket has sat next to me, exuding perfume. A man in needlessly enormous trousers and a horrible pink jumper is fruitlessly trying to attract the attention of the barmaid. Maybe these are the people who have given up trying to get to Stalybridge. The dog is now nowhere to be seen. We have been through David Bowie's "Young Americans" and are now onto Talking Heads' "Life During Wartime".
EDIT: Public Image Ltd: "Rise"
Sounds rather fun! Good taste in music at least.
It's my favourite pub for music. Human League's "Love Action" now.
On Mandaygate, it boils down to the old old question.
What did he know and when did he know it?
In Mandelson's case, it could be argued that schmoozing terrible people is the job description of an ambassador to America, particularly a Trumpian America. But the latest round of revelations goes beyond that, surely.
As for Starmer, if he knew this and appointed Mandy anyway, that also ought to be fatal. Whatever happened to the old "is there anything else you haven't mentioned that would bring shame and disgrace on us all if it emerged" question? It would have saved everyone so much bother over the last decade or so.
(I know... politics is precision-configured to appeal to reckless thrill seekers who assume they don't have to follow the rules... But Sheesh.)
If Starmer didn't know about Mandelson's Epstein back story that was a dereliction of duty, because we all knew.
@KevinASchofield BREAKING: Bridget Phillipson easily gets more than 80 nominations to put her into the next round of the Labour deputy leadership election.
Easy to call it. Just like the Liz Truss election, Useless Lucy gets into next phase the Unions and Labour Members will place a tiara of Deputy Leadership on her head. Though they will have to watch out for the dandruff.
Did you see Phillipson speaking at the TUC? She has it in the bag.
Doesn’t matter what she said or how she said it, the one with zero personality is the Starmer candidate and this is “a balls to you and your reshuffle Starmer” election for the vast majority of Union and Party Members.
This is a betting site, and I’m calling it already in the bag for useless Lucy.
@KevinASchofield BREAKING: Bridget Phillipson easily gets more than 80 nominations to put her into the next round of the Labour deputy leadership election.
Easy to call it. Just like the Liz Truss election, Useless Lucy gets into next phase the Unions and Labour Members will place a tiara of Deputy Leadership on her head. Though they will have to watch out for the dandruff.
Did you see Phillipson speaking at the TUC? She has it in the bag.
Doesn’t matter what she said or how she said it, the one with zero personality is the Starmer candidate and this is “a balls to you and your reshuffle Starmer” election for the vast majority of Union and Party Members.
This is a betting site, and I’m calling it already in the bag for useless Lucy.
On Mandaygate, it boils down to the old old question.
What did he know and when did he know it?
In Mandelson's case, it could be argued that schmoozing terrible people is the job description of an ambassador to America, particularly a Trumpian America. But the latest round of revelations goes beyond that, surely.
As for Starmer, if he knew this and appointed Mandy anyway, that also ought to be fatal. Whatever happened to the old "is there anything else you haven't mentioned that would bring shame and disgrace on us all if it emerged" question? It would have saved everyone so much bother over the last decade or so.
(I know... politics is precision-configured to appeal to reckless thrill seekers who assume they don't have to follow the rules... But Sheesh.)
If Starmer didn't know about Mandelson's Epstein back story that was a dereliction of duty, because we all knew.
Not his holding Jefferys hand through his conviction you didn’t. Labour has kept this covered up.
History shows it's unwise to write off Peter Mandelson but this time might well be the end.
As for Starmer, if we got rid of every PM who showed bad judgement, No.10 would need a revolving door. Indeed, only just after becoming PM, Blair had issues via his relationship with Bernie Ecclestone so it happens all the time.
Unless there's actual evidence of wrongdoing on the part of Starmer (and God knows, if everyone who was ever stupid had to quit there'd be no work done anywhere), the PM is quite safe. It's well past worrying about his "reputation" - I think that ship sailed months ago.
Adding to that is the sheer difficulty of getting out a Labour PM absent an election - unless Starmer chooses to go, I don't see how he could be compelled or persuaded to go.
The only other aspect is I hope the Conservatives are squeaky clean on their links to Epstein and Mandelson otherwise any political advantage from this will quickly dissipate.
The email supporting Epstein as a victim, after Epstein’s conviction is the killer, I think.
It means he knew and carried on his association. There’s no way to argue he was unaware of the facts, proven in a court of law.
Frankly, I don’t care who/whom gets caught in the firing line. One way to stop future Epstein's is to disgrace everyone in his circle. Then people will be more careful next time. Time was, that such a scandal would drive people out of public life.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 14m Sitting in the Commons. There’s an end of days feel that I last encountered in the final weeks of May, Boris and Truss. It’s absolutely staggering how Starmer has fallen so far and so fast.
Comments
Much better if William goes on tv and writes a book and slags off his family and the country.
Bit of luck for Mandelson?
Starmer desperately wants to keep the Trump relationship sweet.
Let's be grateful for a free and inquisitive media.
BREAKING: Former FBI officials sue Kash Patel, alleging they were fired in part due to directives from the White House and social bullying from MAGA loyalists
https://bsky.app/profile/cnn.com/post/3lyird7miyg2f
@thetnholler.bsky.social
SCHUMER: “Trump has lied about this. The American people are demanding the Epstein files be made public.”
He has just filed a surprise amendment to force a senate vote — @MarshaBlackburn @SenatorHagerty history is watching.
https://bsky.app/profile/thetnholler.bsky.social/post/3lyirabla2s2m
Seems a bit workshy too.
@Steven_Swinford
Keir Starmer is standing by Lord Mandelson despite new leaked emails showing he urged Jeffrey Epstein to 'fight for early release' after child sex conviction
The prime minister retains confidence in Mandelson and his position has not changed since PMQs this afternoon
Plus they now have something extra to bond over
Merck cancels £1 billion research centre. Currently being built. Lays off 125 people.
Well done Rachel
https://x.com/pursuitofprog/status/1965820774163554435?s=61
And I expect if he goes he would be replaced by David Lammy until a leadership election takes place, who would be the sixth.
I don't put Starmer's chance of resigning over this at greater than 25% though
Remarkably the same posters assuming Starmer is finished because Mandelson knew Epstein were defending Boris Johnson to the hilt.
I said last week Rayner would have to go.
I am not so sure Mandelson falls on his sword. Certainly not before Trump's visit. Sacking Mandelson over Epstein would be a snub to Trump. Although Harry Cole did say that Mandy's problem is he remained friends with Trump after his conviction. Trump of course turned out to be an FBI informant, who dobbed Epstein in the moment he found Epstein had a dodgy relationship with underage girls.
More Labour MPs are now going over the top calling publicly for Mandelson to go
This is Andy McDonald to
@Telegraph
: “I fail to see how our ambassador to the US can possibly continue in post.
"That he continued to engage with the paedophile Epstein after he was indicted, is simply staggering. If it’s right that in addition he was directly involved in business activity to the advantage of Epstein whilst he was Business Secretary, then that raises huge issues. If true, it is not only unacceptable it raises questions about whether he complied with the ministerial code.
"It is imperative that our nation’s representatives overseas can command trust and respect both in the nation they are posted to but here at home as well. The Prime Minister has said much about improving standards in public life and I trust he will take advice from the ethics adviser or other such independent person.
"It seems clear from the information already in the public domain, and is accepted as being accurate by Peter Mandelson himself, that his time as our ambassador to the US is up. Either he does the right thing by stepping down and saves the Prime Minister and the country any further embarrassment. If he does not, he should be fired.”
For once it is widely accepted Badenoch had her best outing and won 6-0
EDIT: It's Fugazi's "Waiting Room" now.
EDIT again: "Channel Z" by the B52s.
The informant thing depends on believing Trump.
I have a really nice bridge, one careful owner…
BREAKING: Bridget Phillipson easily gets more than 80 nominations to put her into the next round of the Labour deputy leadership election.
Lucy Powell just 3 short with 22 hours to go
Totals:
Phillipson - 116
Powell - 77
Bell Ribeiro-Addy - 15
Barker - 14
Thornberry - 13
“White Knight” Starmer knew all this, and the possibility of it all coming out, when making him British Ambassador.
Starmer has to go. Labour won’t have a single voter left this time next week.
And if it is unacceptable to have a friend of Epstein as ambassador, why is it OK to give another massive friend of Epstein a formal State Visit to the King and to Parliament?
Why not hold your hand up and agree we cannot have a US Ambassador as closely associated with Epstein as Prince Andrew and Donald Trump
And this is a widely held view across politics even if you are unhappy about it
Whether it advances her cause as the next Prime Minister I'm not sure - it's been a febrile day in one way or another and these things quickly get forgotten in the warp and weft of current affairs.
May and Boris both lasted 3 years plus
Though they will have to watch out for the dandruff.
If Starmer falls, your reporting on PB won't go unrewarded.
In modern money this is about £1,500,000 and £750,000 a year according to Copilot although estimates vary.
I think Mandelson is a goner, because despite any awkward situation arising in the US the pressure domestically will start to reach boiling point. Starmer can’t have another moment like he did at PMQs today - it was a terrible look and the worst he has ever performed in the House by some margin.
I did not see The Hammer of the Sub Postmasters questions so cannot comment but if Rogerdamus thought they were ace, they must be 😉
Uses a small amount of drama which I don’t usually like in documentaries but it works very well here to demonstrate the conditions before and during but also actors portraying the statements to the Inquiry.
What did he know and when did he know it?
In Mandelson's case, it could be argued that schmoozing terrible people is the job description of an ambassador to America, particularly a Trumpian America. But the latest round of revelations goes beyond that, surely.
As for Starmer, if he knew this and appointed Mandy anyway, that also ought to be fatal. Whatever happened to the old "is there anything else you haven't mentioned that would bring shame and disgrace on us all if it emerged" question? It would have saved everyone so much bother over the last decade or so.
(I know... politics is precision-configured to appeal to reckless thrill seekers who assume they don't have to follow the rules... But Sheesh.)
Now that upsets some but that is the nature of politics but I am aware this is a betting site and would not intentionally post dubious information
And I read all the news media where I can
I am an elderly person with limited mobility so have more time than most to post news stories
The dog is now nowhere to be seen.
We have been through David Bowie's "Young Americans" and are now onto Talking Heads' "Life During Wartime".
EDIT: Public Image Ltd: "Rise"
History shows it's unwise to write off Peter Mandelson but this time might well be the end.
As for Starmer, if we got rid of every PM who showed bad judgement, No.10 would need a revolving door. Indeed, only just after becoming PM, Blair had issues via his relationship with Bernie Ecclestone so it happens all the time.
Unless there's actual evidence of wrongdoing on the part of Starmer (and God knows, if everyone who was ever stupid had to quit there'd be no work done anywhere), the PM is quite safe. It's well past worrying about his "reputation" - I think that ship sailed months ago.
Adding to that is the sheer difficulty of getting out a Labour PM absent an election - unless Starmer chooses to go, I don't see how he could be compelled or persuaded to go.
The only other aspect is I hope the Conservatives are squeaky clean on their links to Epstein and Mandelson otherwise any political advantage from this will quickly dissipate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b005iHf8Z3g
What we have with Starmer and Mandy is a cover up. A decision made, but how and why, who knew what and when, must remain a secret. It’s the cover up that has cost Starmer his job.
Thanks
So no, it isn’t anti-Semitic.
All it has done has pushed the Europeans closer to Ukraine and Trump closer to Europe which I suspect wasn't the aim but could have been foreseeable by any kind of analysis.
I can only think Putin was emboldened by his closeness to China and North Korea at the military parade last week and perhaps some of Kim or Xi's advisers suggested this as a ploy to sow discord in Europe and with the US.
McDonnell of course is suspended
Trump says all the time that if he were president then, Putin would not have gone into Ukraine.
Now Trump IS president, and Putin, emboldened by Trump's equivocations, has gone into Poland!
It means he knew and carried on his association. There’s no way to argue he was unaware of the facts, proven in a court of law.
Frankly, I don’t care who/whom gets caught in the firing line. One way to stop future Epstein's is to disgrace everyone in his circle. Then people will be more careful next time. Time was, that such a scandal would drive people out of public life.
https://www.racingpost.com/news/britain/racing-tax/racing-strike-in-pictures-award-winning-photographer-edward-whitaker-captures-the-shots-outside-the-houses-of-parliament-ajAHx5p80Pqg/
I don't think it looks good when your only parliamentary backers seem to be Conservatives. Liberal Democrat and some Labour MPs have also joined the opposition to the Budget proposal.
This is a betting site, and I’m calling it already in the bag for useless Lucy.
Lol, hes doubling down. Starmer fully supports this fucking nonsense
@DPJHodges
·
14m
Sitting in the Commons. There’s an end of days feel that I last encountered in the final weeks of May, Boris and Truss. It’s absolutely staggering how Starmer has fallen so far and so fast.
https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1965844193471000905