Skip to content

Patriotic Brits reject the monarchy – politicalbetting.com

13567

Comments

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,172
    MattW said:

    isam said:

    Rentoul’s going for a big priced winner

    Why I think Emily Thornberry will win

    Keir Starmer would rather have Bridget Phillipson elected unopposed as deputy Labour leader, in order to avoid an election campaign that is bound to open divisions in the party.

    But I think 80 Labour MPs will be prepared to have their names made public as nominating Emily Thornberry or Lucy Powell. Thornberry makes clear her intention to be a thorn in the prime minister’s side, mentioning welfare, Gaza, a wealth tax and special educational needs in her launch statement.

    Powell is more loyalist in tone, but if she is up against Phillipson she will be driven to criticise the government too.

    I have written today about why I don’t think Phillipson – or Alison McGovern, the other minister who is running – will win, despite being popular with party members. In the end, the members yearn for a more “left-wing” party and will vote for whichever candidate is most critical of what 64 per cent of them think is Starmer’s “wrong direction”.

    Thornberry won't win. Her constituency is adjacent to Starmer's - not a good look to have a North London Leader and Deputy.

    It will be Phillipson or McGovern, I think. Powell is too dull, and the other two can't get enough MP votes.
    She is also married to a peer of the realm and couldn't be more removed from the hoi polloi if she married Prince Andrew. Her historic disapproval of England flags on houses also suggests she is not best placed to counter the flag party that is reform.
    I don't believe so (depending on definition) - he is a Lord Justice of Appeal.
    Oops, yes. Should say knight of the realm, a Lord Justice too.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,172

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Off-topic:

    My son brought a waif home after school today, another boy in his year. I let the boy's mother he was here, then offered him a simple dinner of chicken and rice.

    He is twelve.

    It was the first time he had ever had rice.

    I was flabbergasted.

    When I was about eight a friend's mother gave me a baked potato. I had no idea what it was or what to do with it. I thought it was a pear.
    It is an important part of growing up – discovering that your friends' families do things ever so slightly differently from yours. They might have strawberry rather than raspberry jam with their rice, for example.
    Sometimes different and wrong, though. I was served a pasta dish at a friend's house once where the bacon pieces had not had the rind cut off. Not the fat, the rind.
    The rind is the best bit, surely?
    Cooked right a bit of crispy but not burned rind is heaven
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,106

    Daily Mail piling in on Mandelson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15080217/Relaxing-bathrobe-best-pal-Jeffrey-Epstein-Britains-ambassador-Washington-Lord-Mandelson-youve-never-seen-before.html

    He can’t survive this. These images even worse than pictures that destroyed Prince Andrew.

    Rather crude comment there from one Mail Online reader 'And people are surprised, he’s had his nose up rich people’s bottoms all his career.'
  • eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Your homework is to keep rereading this bit of the post you're replying to until enlightenment hits you:

    "Child A says, at least one of mine has no holes.

    This rules in (at equal probability):
    ggg, ggb, GBG, bgg, gbb, bgb, bbg

    and rules out:
    Bbb"

    None of which changes the probability of reaching into the bag and selecting a good apple
    The reality is the bag doesn't matter - take the apples out of the bag and you have the following equally possible results

    GBB (1/3 chance), GBG (2/3 chance), GGB (2/3 chance), GGG (100% chance) and all 4 options are equally plausible

    So 1/4*1/3+2/4*2/3+1/4*3/3=1/12+6/12+2/12=8/12 or 2/3

    For 4 apples outside the bag the options are

    GBBB (1/4), GBBG (2/4), GBGB (2/4), GGBB (2/4), GGBG (3/4), GGGB (3/4), GGGG (4/4) and all 6 options are equally plausible

    So 1/6*1/4+3/6*2/4+2/6*3/4+1/6*100% = 1/24+6/24+6/24+4/24=15/24=5/8




    What happened to BBG, BGB and BGG in your workings for the first child ? Using your approach, you can't say that everything starts with a G...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,950

    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    Off-topic:

    My son brought a waif home after school today, another boy in his year. I let the boy's mother he was here, then offered him a simple dinner of chicken and rice.

    He is twelve.

    It was the first time he had ever had rice.

    I was flabbergasted.

    Nice thinking, ensuring the little sponger isn’t going to be wanting to come back for decent grub in the future.
    Oi! I cooked it! There were vegetables and other side dishes!

    (Though naturally enough, Mrs J's teleconference ended just as the food was ready, so she served up and got the plaudits for the food. Though as a pescetarian, she did not partake of the chicken.)
    Basmati, arborio, wild, sticky, jasmine or brown?
    I only use two types of rice: basmati for side dishes, and arborio for risottos. Though I haven't made a risotto for a few months, as our son hates them. They're a meal to make when he's elsewhere. I've used brown rice once or twice, and never used Jasmine rice (aside from out of a Ben's Original packet)
    Brown rice takes a year to cook

    Long grain is good for jambalaya
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,106
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 73% do of 18 to 24s do NOT want to abolish the monarchy and only 27% do in other words, once you read past the TSE spin

    Your arithmetic is off. Not to mention your comprehension and logic. The correct balanced figures are 23 and 27 respectively, once your spin is dumped in the wpb.
    Or in other words less than a third of 16s and 17s want to abolish the monarchy
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,952

    carnforth said:

    Order these carbs by preference: bread, potato, pasta, rice.

    I mean, why eat rice if you don't have to?

    Taters, bread, pasta, rice
    As a child i had the first two almost every day, spaghetti occasionally and the first rice I had was at 18 at a dinner hosted by my A level English teacher for all the English A level students post exams. Also my first curry. My sister had, a few years before, got my mum to do rice but me and mum weren't having that muck on our plates
    In those days rice was only used for rice pudding
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,610
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Selebian said:

    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.

    Not even a banana republic? :wink:

    Britain as a republic is not so hard to imagine. I agree it's hard to think of the United Kingdom as a republic.
    One banana, two banana,
    Three banana four,
    four bananas make a bunch and
    so do many more.

    Loved the Banana Splits. Real part of my childhood.
    Banana split in one of those Italian ice cream parlours by the seaside. There was a wonderful one in Dunbar, but I remember North Berwick and Portobello too.

    Most seem to have gone.
    Nardini’s in Largs still sell them. Go west, young man.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,189
    edited September 9
    Scott_xP said:

    eek said:

    The reality is the bag doesn't matter

    The bag is all that matters.

    The question is which bag should you select from.

    The odds of picking a good apple from either bag don't change based on the information presented.

    Again, if I pick an apple from either bag and show it to you, when I put it back your odds of picking a good apple have not changed.

    This is where it differs from the Monty Hall problem where 1 door is eliminated.

    In this game the odds are fixed, and don't change. Both boys got lucky.

    The question for you is, do you feel lucky? Well, do ya punk?
    The plausible combinations outside the bag gives you the odds. picking blindfolded from the tree odds are 50/50.

    From bag A the odds are 66%, bag B 62.5% were there bag C with 1 known and 4 unknown 60%, bag alpha with 1 known and 1 unknown 75%.

    Basically no matter how you phrase the question there is a bag with 1 good apple and x-1 apples of unknown status in it the odds of picking a good apple is x+1/2x where x is the number of apples in the bag

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,952

    BBC on Mandelson

    Not sure how he survives this

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy9dwe50leo

    If he does, it's because it's Peter being Peter.

    (Serious point- it's a schmoozer schmoozing. Which is why he was appointed.)
    He is an arsehole of the worst kind (Labour ), they are real troughers with no principles.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382

    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    Off-topic:

    My son brought a waif home after school today, another boy in his year. I let the boy's mother he was here, then offered him a simple dinner of chicken and rice.

    He is twelve.

    It was the first time he had ever had rice.

    I was flabbergasted.

    Nice thinking, ensuring the little sponger isn’t going to be wanting to come back for decent grub in the future.
    Oi! I cooked it! There were vegetables and other side dishes!

    (Though naturally enough, Mrs J's teleconference ended just as the food was ready, so she served up and got the plaudits for the food. Though as a pescetarian, she did not partake of the chicken.)
    Basmati, arborio, wild, sticky, jasmine or brown?
    I only use two types of rice: basmati for side dishes, and arborio for risottos. Though I haven't made a risotto for a few months, as our son hates them. They're a meal to make when he's elsewhere. I've used brown rice once or twice, and never used Jasmine rice (aside from out of a Ben's Original packet)
    Interesting (including the pasta start to the cooking). I love jasmine rice with stirfry - Mrs C and I once scored a big sack of superb jasmine rice from one of those inner city Chinese supermarkets that smell of everything from dried mushrooms onwards. Never had one so good since, but Sainsburys is sort of OK. I need to explore more.

    Sticky rice is the stuff one gets in Chimese dim sum stuffed vine leaves. I've never used it in cooking myself.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 73% do of 18 to 24s do NOT want to abolish the monarchy and only 27% do in other words, once you read past the TSE spin

    Your arithmetic is off. Not to mention your comprehension and logic. The correct balanced figures are 23 and 27 respectively, once your spin is dumped in the wpb.
    Or in other words less than a third of 16s and 17s want to abolish the monarchy
    Which is more than the proportion who want to keep it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382
    malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    Order these carbs by preference: bread, potato, pasta, rice.

    I mean, why eat rice if you don't have to?

    Taters, bread, pasta, rice
    As a child i had the first two almost every day, spaghetti occasionally and the first rice I had was at 18 at a dinner hosted by my A level English teacher for all the English A level students post exams. Also my first curry. My sister had, a few years before, got my mum to do rice but me and mum weren't having that muck on our plates
    In those days rice was only used for rice pudding
    Still is here (ground rice, hard to find now). Yum, with home made jam or stewed blackcurrants from the garden.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,172
    Scott_xP said:

    Your homework is to keep rereading this bit of the post you're replying to until enlightenment hits you:

    "Child A says, at least one of mine has no holes.

    This rules in (at equal probability):
    ggg, ggb, GBG, bgg, gbb, bgb, bbg

    and rules out:
    Bbb"

    None of which changes the probability of reaching into the bag and selecting a good apple
    This is clearly a bit like the classic probability question - the Monty Hall. Clearly some will think that as the apples were initially randomly chosen and you then randomly pick one it doesn't matter. But if course we know that some possibilities no longer exist. At least one of bag A is good (no holes) ruling out then all being bad. And similarly for bag B they are not all bad.
    The phrasing is tricky, and apparently has been refined from the initial puzzle. Essentially by showing you an apple or just telling you about one you change the statistical distribution that remains.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,427

    Aubrey Allegretti
    @breeallegretti
    ·
    17m
    First official Labour tally of deputy leadership nominations - Bridget Phillipson leads the pack!

    Bridget Phillipson - 44
    Lucy Powell - 35
    Bell Ribeiro-Addy - 8
    Emily Thornberry - 7
    Paula Barker - 3
    Alison McGovern - 2

    These don't include the MPs themselves.

    Starmer’s toast if true Andy’s Acolyte Lucy Powell is just behind already.

    The Unions and Labour membership so clearly want a new Labour leadership and change of direction. Lucy has clearly got this if she makes 80 MPs.

    Lucy will be PM Burnham Deputy PM.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,777

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.

    Well, it was at one point, it just wasn't a great success.
    It went so badly that staunch Republican supporters couldn't think of a better way forward than inviting back the son of the monarch they'd executed. And shuffling about awkwardly staring at their feet while mumbling an apology.

    Kinda embarrassing really.
    That's true. And the Stuarts still made a mess the second time round. Albeit doing one or two useful things like promoting the Royal Navy (following on from the Commonwealth) (although letting it get burnt/captured) and helping establish the Royal Society of London.
    Sure, but arguing about the royals cocking things up in the 17th century seems to ignore the modern reality that they don't have any power these days.

    KCIII has failed to be the toxic monarch republicans expected and hoped for because a modern monarch doesn't have to do anything except turn up. If someone like Charles - who let's face it, it's both a bit of a shit and a bit of an idiot - can manage not to bungle it, then it's hard to see the circumstances in which the British public would turn against the monarchy.
    He isn't the toxic monarch I expected.
    I'm not sure I'd have used the phrase "a bit of a shit and a bit of an idiot" but it certainly wasn't obvious before he took over what positive qualities he would bring to the role to make us like the monarchy - but I think you are right in that the bar is actually rather lower than we imagined.
    But it isn't infinitely lower. Low though the bar is, it's easy to imagine a monarch who fails to meet it - just look at his brother or his younger son.
    KCIII was raising issues of affordability in housing in the 1980s - and pushed the Crown Estate to take action. Then got into building planned towns before that became fashionable.

    He was big into environmentalism when that got you laughed at. See also sustainable agriculture…

    He also raised issues of race before became fashionable - stuff like embarrassing the Army as to why there were no black soldiers in the guards. Reached out to other faiths etc.

    On a number of big issues he was way ahead of the curve.
    How many homeless people is he housing in his umpteen palaces???
    He got the Crown Estate, when some land from the old Royal Mint was no longer needed, to lend it to a housing association to build flats. The deal was that they (the housing association) couldn’t sell or charge rent against 40% of the value of the property (land value). Shared equity, without rent on the bit you didn’t own. You could rent the other 60% and buy in tranches of 10%.

    This kept prices down - quite a few were owned by local people, even into the early 2000s - when flats around there were £500k. A 2 bed there went for £60k
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,172
    malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    Order these carbs by preference: bread, potato, pasta, rice.

    I mean, why eat rice if you don't have to?

    Taters, bread, pasta, rice
    As a child i had the first two almost every day, spaghetti occasionally and the first rice I had was at 18 at a dinner hosted by my A level English teacher for all the English A level students post exams. Also my first curry. My sister had, a few years before, got my mum to do rice but me and mum weren't having that muck on our plates
    In those days rice was only used for rice pudding
    I'm 52 and only just started eating orzo.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,827
    Omnium said:

    Phillipson undoubtedly thinks she has it in the bag. But having a chat and confidence discussion with your 80 mates isn't necessarily going to give you quite the outcome you imagined.

    Thornberry probably has a more realistic assessment of her own chances.

    Powell I find impossible to judge. Her support seems thin, but Burnham seems to want her.

    The other silly people are just silly, although as its Labour not to be entirely discounted.

    Corbyn was “just silly” in 2015. Then the membership went and elected him.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,897

    Off-topic:

    My son brought a waif home after school today, another boy in his year. I let the boy's mother he was here, then offered him a simple dinner of chicken and rice.

    He is twelve.

    It was the first time he had ever had rice.

    I was flabbergasted.

    I was 18 before I had rice
    When I was a kid, every week my mum would cook some concoction with lentils in it.

    As a result, I *never* cook with lentils... :)

    As for rice: it is simple to cook, but easy to muck up. We do it the Turkish way: fry some orzo in butter before adding the rice and water.
    I like lentils tbf, and split peas. Nice bit of pease pudding.
    Mum was an extremely traditional English cook - and a little of thrift dishes as we weren't ever so well off. Leftover meals, bubble and squeak etc etc and plenty Yorkshires to fill you up with roasts. Suet pudding of savory and sweet kinds, proper Norfolk dumplings and simple sinkers too. Yum.
    But baking was where my mums family all excelled and excel, my great grandma was in service to the local big families (Gurneys etc), a senior member of various kitchens and through her the female members of my clan all bake like its second nature. As do I now tbf
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,950

    Scott_xP said:

    Your homework is to keep rereading this bit of the post you're replying to until enlightenment hits you:

    "Child A says, at least one of mine has no holes.

    This rules in (at equal probability):
    ggg, ggb, GBG, bgg, gbb, bgb, bbg

    and rules out:
    Bbb"

    None of which changes the probability of reaching into the bag and selecting a good apple
    This is clearly a bit like the classic probability question - the Monty Hall. Clearly some will think that as the apples were initially randomly chosen and you then randomly pick one it doesn't matter. But if course we know that some possibilities no longer exist. At least one of bag A is good (no holes) ruling out then all being bad. And similarly for bag B they are not all bad.
    The phrasing is tricky, and apparently has been refined from the initial puzzle. Essentially by showing you an apple or just telling you about one you change the statistical distribution that remains.
    In Monty Hall (as noted upthread) the probabilities change during the game.

    In this puzzle the probabilities are fixed by the number of apples in each bag.

    Picking a good one and putting it back doesn't change the probability of you picking a good one

    Crucially in Monty Hall the bad door is NOT put back into the bag...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,952
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    Order these carbs by preference: bread, potato, pasta, rice.

    I mean, why eat rice if you don't have to?

    Taters, bread, pasta, rice
    As a child i had the first two almost every day, spaghetti occasionally and the first rice I had was at 18 at a dinner hosted by my A level English teacher for all the English A level students post exams. Also my first curry. My sister had, a few years before, got my mum to do rice but me and mum weren't having that muck on our plates
    In those days rice was only used for rice pudding
    Still is here (ground rice, hard to find now). Yum, with home made jam or stewed blackcurrants from the garden.
    for sure , even peach slices or rhubarb. though nowadays we use it a lot , basmati , jasmine and risotto
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,454
    edited September 9

    Pro_Rata said:

    FPT:

    The Apple Puzzle
    On a tree, half of the apples have holes made by wasps.
    • One boy picked 3 apples at random and said “at least one of mine has no holes.”
    • Another boy picked 4 apples similarly. He showed me one of them at random, and it had no holes. He put it back.
    If you may take just one apple from either boy’s bag, from which boy do you have the better chance of picking an apple without holes?

    Let's number the apples physically, so child A has apples numbered 1-3, child B has apples numbered 1-4.

    We will designated G as good, B as bad

    Child A says, at least one of mine has no holes.

    This rules in (at equal probability):
    ggg, ggb, GBG, bgg, gbb, bgb, bbg

    and rules out:
    Bbb

    Shifts the probability of picking a good apple from 12/24 to 12/21 by removing the 3 bads option = 57.1%

    We have not used the numbers.

    Child B removes 1 apple from the bag, at random, and finds it is good. For the sake of argument we'll say apple 1 has been removed, though it works exactly the same if apples 2 or 3 or 4 are found to be good.

    This rules in (at equal probability):
    Gggg, gggb, ggbg, gbgg, ggbb, gbgb, gbbg, gbbb

    and rules out:
    Bggg, bggb, bgbg, bbgg, bgbb, bbgb, bbbg, bbbb

    (Notice how much more has been ruled out by saying apple #1 of the 4 is good rather than one of the three apples is good)

    Shifts the probability of picking a good apple from 32/64 to 20/32 by removing all the bad apple #1 options) = 62.5%

    The original wording didnt state that the second apple was chosen at random (may allude to it, but unclear), nor the proportion of good or bad apples. Hence the long and confusing discussion as some will still be answering a different interpretation if they didnt see the updated wording.

    "All this talk about polling reminds me of an intriguing puzzle I devised from recent experiences with wasp-damaged apples.
    Anyone who is into the difficulties of polling and sampling may find it interesting. Please post your answers but don't spoil the fun by giving any reasoning or explanation yet:
    Two children pick apples from the same wasp-busy tree.
    Child A picks 3 apples and says: “At least one of mine has no wasp holes.”
    Child B picks 4 apples and shows you one that is definitely hole-free, then puts it back in the bag.
    You may take one apple from one child’s bag.
    From which bag do you have the better chance of getting an apple without holes — A’s or B’s?"
    My management experience would make me always pick boy B. Any statement such as boy A's "at least one of mine is good" can be fairly safely interpreted as "all my others are rotten".

    Boy B is just picking at random, so nothing much can be inferred about his other three apples from what shows you.

    The only time this logic is flawed is when the chances of a good apple are low enough that it's very likely Boy B has three duds and a good apple, at which point picking Boy A is a 33% chance of getting a good apple and Boy B is ~25%.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,262
    edited September 9
    Scott_xP said:

    Your homework is to keep rereading this bit of the post you're replying to until enlightenment hits you:

    "Child A says, at least one of mine has no holes.

    This rules in (at equal probability):
    ggg, ggb, GBG, bgg, gbb, bgb, bbg

    and rules out:
    Bbb"

    None of which changes the probability of reaching into the bag and selecting a good apple
    Consider it this way (don't need the actual calcs).

    Bag with 4 apples picked randomly from a tree with lots of apples, half good half bad.

    Scenario 1: You pick an apple at random from the bag and it's good. Put it back in the bag.

    Scenario 2: You pick an apple at random from the bag and it's bad. Put it back in the bag.

    Scenario 1 has ruled out the possibility of the bag containing 4 bad apples but it might have 4 good ones.

    Scenario 2 has ruled out the possibility of the bag containing 4 good apples but it might have 4 bad ones.

    Which of the two things happen impacts the odds of picking a good one from the bag when you try again. You have a better chance in scenario 1 than in scenario 2.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,172
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Your homework is to keep rereading this bit of the post you're replying to until enlightenment hits you:

    "Child A says, at least one of mine has no holes.

    This rules in (at equal probability):
    ggg, ggb, GBG, bgg, gbb, bgb, bbg

    and rules out:
    Bbb"

    None of which changes the probability of reaching into the bag and selecting a good apple
    This is clearly a bit like the classic probability question - the Monty Hall. Clearly some will think that as the apples were initially randomly chosen and you then randomly pick one it doesn't matter. But if course we know that some possibilities no longer exist. At least one of bag A is good (no holes) ruling out then all being bad. And similarly for bag B they are not all bad.
    The phrasing is tricky, and apparently has been refined from the initial puzzle. Essentially by showing you an apple or just telling you about one you change the statistical distribution that remains.
    In Monty Hall (as noted upthread) the probabilities change during the game.

    In this puzzle the probabilities are fixed by the number of apples in each bag.

    Picking a good one and putting it back doesn't change the probability of you picking a good one

    Crucially in Monty Hall the bad door is NOT put back into the bag...
    The probabilities are fixed when the apples go in the bag but you gain information about the bags. That's the key thing.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,005

    FPT
    Cookie said:

    NickPalmer said:

    > I had a minor stroke a couple of weeks ago and was very impressed by the reaction and follow-up by the local hospital - detailed feedback to the GP were followed up a day later by a call from the consultant to resolve pending queries that I had. There was no sense of any hurry in my putting the questions during the call. Some aspects of the NHS are weighed down by procedural complexity abd waiting lists, but if something is urgent they really get their skates on.

    The immigration issue was also very starkly clear - 90% of the staff were clearly not of UK descent, and the system would instantly collapse without immigrants and the next generation of immigrants.<

    > 1) Sorry to hear that Nick - customary understatement there but even a minor stroke isn't minor! Hope you're on the mend.
    2) Glad the NHS treated you well. Your experience matches mine: in an emergency, the NHS is at its best. And the standard of care the NHS provides is often very good. The standard of customer service however is poor. It feels like the easier problem to solve, yet we never have.
    3) The NHS would collapse without immigrants - this itself seems a bit of a flashing warning light? Ideally, we should be training our own population to do medical work - this isn't low-grade Brits-won't-do-it work, surely?<

    1) Yes, thanks - feel back to normal, though cautious about it! I had a major stroke 15 months ago - total loss of memory etc. - so restrained about celebrating the minor one, but the treatment seems to be keeping off anything worse. I was semi-retired with lots of translation work, but AI has encroached to the point that the remaining work is really badly-paid (an interesting warning to anyone choosing a profession - don't become a translator), and actually I don't need it, so I'm fully retired now, remarried a few months ago, and living a life of idle pleasure.
    2)-3) agreed! I suppose that budget-setters will always prioritise doctors and nurses over bureaucrats, but a smooth service needs bureaucrats too.

    Sorry to hear your troubles. Stroke services are something that has made dramatic strides forward, particularly in larger units that can scan and do interventions radiology around the clock. An on call rota for these things is not viable everywhere.

    I agree on immigrant descended staff. I am one of only 10% of the Medical staff in my department that are ethnically British, though of the others about 50% are British born second or third generation. When I interview for the Medical School only 10-15% of candidates are white British, though nearly all British by birth. The nursing students are a pretty similar bunch. Leicester is seen as a good place to come particularly for British Asians but I expect that even places like Peninsula Medical school or UEA are much the same. It's a bit of a stereotype that Medicine, Law and Accountancy are dominated by British Asians, but not one without some foundation.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382

    Off-topic:

    My son brought a waif home after school today, another boy in his year. I let the boy's mother he was here, then offered him a simple dinner of chicken and rice.

    He is twelve.

    It was the first time he had ever had rice.

    I was flabbergasted.

    I was 18 before I had rice
    When I was a kid, every week my mum would cook some concoction with lentils in it.

    As a result, I *never* cook with lentils... :)

    As for rice: it is simple to cook, but easy to muck up. We do it the Turkish way: fry some orzo in butter before adding the rice and water.
    I like lentils tbf, and split peas. Nice bit of pease pudding.
    Mum was an extremely traditional English cook - and a little of thrift dishes as we weren't ever so well off. Leftover meals, bubble and squeak etc etc and plenty Yorkshires to fill you up with roasts. Suet pudding of savory and sweet kinds, proper Norfolk dumplings and simple sinkers too. Yum.
    But baking was where my mums family all excelled and excel, my great grandma was in service to the local big families (Gurneys etc), a senior member of various kitchens and through her the female members of my clan all bake like its second nature. As do I now tbf
    https://www.norfolk-norwich.com/news/the-norfolk-dumpling.php

    Never heard of those. Tempted as we don't normally use suet in cooking anyway.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,172
    Foxy said:

    FPT
    Cookie said:

    NickPalmer said:

    > I had a minor stroke a couple of weeks ago and was very impressed by the reaction and follow-up by the local hospital - detailed feedback to the GP were followed up a day later by a call from the consultant to resolve pending queries that I had. There was no sense of any hurry in my putting the questions during the call. Some aspects of the NHS are weighed down by procedural complexity abd waiting lists, but if something is urgent they really get their skates on.

    The immigration issue was also very starkly clear - 90% of the staff were clearly not of UK descent, and the system would instantly collapse without immigrants and the next generation of immigrants.<

    > 1) Sorry to hear that Nick - customary understatement there but even a minor stroke isn't minor! Hope you're on the mend.
    2) Glad the NHS treated you well. Your experience matches mine: in an emergency, the NHS is at its best. And the standard of care the NHS provides is often very good. The standard of customer service however is poor. It feels like the easier problem to solve, yet we never have.
    3) The NHS would collapse without immigrants - this itself seems a bit of a flashing warning light? Ideally, we should be training our own population to do medical work - this isn't low-grade Brits-won't-do-it work, surely?<

    1) Yes, thanks - feel back to normal, though cautious about it! I had a major stroke 15 months ago - total loss of memory etc. - so restrained about celebrating the minor one, but the treatment seems to be keeping off anything worse. I was semi-retired with lots of translation work, but AI has encroached to the point that the remaining work is really badly-paid (an interesting warning to anyone choosing a profession - don't become a translator), and actually I don't need it, so I'm fully retired now, remarried a few months ago, and living a life of idle pleasure.
    2)-3) agreed! I suppose that budget-setters will always prioritise doctors and nurses over bureaucrats, but a smooth service needs bureaucrats too.

    Sorry to hear your troubles. Stroke services are something that has made dramatic strides forward, particularly in larger units that can scan and do interventions radiology around the clock. An on call rota for these things is not viable everywhere.

    I agree on immigrant descended staff. I am one of only 10% of the Medical staff in my department that are ethnically British, though of the others about 50% are British born second or third generation. When I interview for the Medical School only 10-15% of candidates are white British, though nearly all British by birth. The nursing students are a pretty similar bunch. Leicester is seen as a good place to come particularly for British Asians but I expect that even places like Peninsula Medical school or UEA are much the same. It's a bit of a stereotype that Medicine, Law and Accountancy are dominated by British Asians, but not one without some foundation.
    Pharmacy too. A cohort where traditional British names is the minority, but most are 2nd, 3rd generation migrants and as British as me.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,950
    kinabalu said:

    Which of the two things happen impacts the odds of picking a good one from the bag when you try again.

    Neither
    kinabalu said:

    You have a better chance in scenario 1 than in scenario 2.

    You really don't

    Each scenario is independent.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,614
    edited September 9
    The freedom flotilla drone attack is my favourite story of the day

    It seems very clearly to me to be a self-inflicted flare attack
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,950

    The probabilities are fixed when the apples go in the bag but you gain information about the bags. That's the key thing.

    The information doesn't change the probabilities. That's the key thing.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,189
    edited September 9

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Your homework is to keep rereading this bit of the post you're replying to until enlightenment hits you:

    "Child A says, at least one of mine has no holes.

    This rules in (at equal probability):
    ggg, ggb, GBG, bgg, gbb, bgb, bbg

    and rules out:
    Bbb"

    None of which changes the probability of reaching into the bag and selecting a good apple
    This is clearly a bit like the classic probability question - the Monty Hall. Clearly some will think that as the apples were initially randomly chosen and you then randomly pick one it doesn't matter. But if course we know that some possibilities no longer exist. At least one of bag A is good (no holes) ruling out then all being bad. And similarly for bag B they are not all bad.
    The phrasing is tricky, and apparently has been refined from the initial puzzle. Essentially by showing you an apple or just telling you about one you change the statistical distribution that remains.
    In Monty Hall (as noted upthread) the probabilities change during the game.

    In this puzzle the probabilities are fixed by the number of apples in each bag.

    Picking a good one and putting it back doesn't change the probability of you picking a good one

    Crucially in Monty Hall the bad door is NOT put back into the bag...
    The probabilities are fixed when the apples go in the bag but you gain information about the bags. That's the key thing.
    And the only thing you've gained from the information provided is that in both bags 1 apple is good, but the probability for the remaining apples is still 50/50...

    So you have 2 50/50 chances and 1 100% chance in bag A = 66%
    You have 3 50/50 chances and 1 100% chanve in bag B = 62.5%
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,106
    edited September 9
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 73% do of 18 to 24s do NOT want to abolish the monarchy and only 27% do in other words, once you read past the TSE spin

    Your arithmetic is off. Not to mention your comprehension and logic. The correct balanced figures are 23 and 27 respectively, once your spin is dumped in the wpb.
    Or in other words less than a third of 16s and 17s want to abolish the monarchy
    Which is more than the proportion who want to keep it.
    TSE's header is 'Patriotic Brits reject the monarchy.' Which is the most misleading and biased header ever on a PB Thread.

    First, the poll is only of 16 to 17 year olds NOT of all adult Brits.

    Second, it would need 51% of 16 to 17 year olds to reject the monarchy for that to be accurate, not 27% and of course it would be even lower once they are given the correct forced choice of King William or President Farage or Starmer
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,827
    HYUFD said:

    Daily Mail piling in on Mandelson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15080217/Relaxing-bathrobe-best-pal-Jeffrey-Epstein-Britains-ambassador-Washington-Lord-Mandelson-youve-never-seen-before.html

    He can’t survive this. These images even worse than pictures that destroyed Prince Andrew.

    Rather crude comment there from one Mail Online reader 'And people are surprised, he’s had his nose up rich people’s bottoms all his career.'
    My wife read Private Eye for the first time last week, and asked me what was meant by ‘brown nosing’.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,897
    Carnyx said:

    Off-topic:

    My son brought a waif home after school today, another boy in his year. I let the boy's mother he was here, then offered him a simple dinner of chicken and rice.

    He is twelve.

    It was the first time he had ever had rice.

    I was flabbergasted.

    I was 18 before I had rice
    When I was a kid, every week my mum would cook some concoction with lentils in it.

    As a result, I *never* cook with lentils... :)

    As for rice: it is simple to cook, but easy to muck up. We do it the Turkish way: fry some orzo in butter before adding the rice and water.
    I like lentils tbf, and split peas. Nice bit of pease pudding.
    Mum was an extremely traditional English cook - and a little of thrift dishes as we weren't ever so well off. Leftover meals, bubble and squeak etc etc and plenty Yorkshires to fill you up with roasts. Suet pudding of savory and sweet kinds, proper Norfolk dumplings and simple sinkers too. Yum.
    But baking was where my mums family all excelled and excel, my great grandma was in service to the local big families (Gurneys etc), a senior member of various kitchens and through her the female members of my clan all bake like its second nature. As do I now tbf
    https://www.norfolk-norwich.com/news/the-norfolk-dumpling.php

    Never heard of those. Tempted as we don't normally use suet in cooking anyway.
    I make them with suet sometimes too if im being all foreign. But a pair of Norfolk dumplings on a cold winters day atop a big pan of stew like big pillows.... mmmmmm
    Thats swimmers. Sinkers are when you make them in a rush and they are a bit too dense and sink. Still nice though!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,106
    Plenty of ways you can look at the voting intention of 16-17 year olds, but here's a fun one:

    ➡️ PE and Business Studies students are much more likely to vote Reform
    🌍 The Green Party does best with those who enjoy Drama at school
    🔶 Lib Dems do best with modern language fans
    https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1965428390732976179
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,670
    There are a lot of implications of the Israel attack on Qatar.

    Not least, that Qatar has spent billions on ballistic missile defence systems from the USA - not least lots and lots of Patriot.

    Also Thaad, which ahs not arrived yet.

    Was it all turned off?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,370

    Foxy said:

    FPT
    Cookie said:

    NickPalmer said:

    > I had a minor stroke a couple of weeks ago and was very impressed by the reaction and follow-up by the local hospital - detailed feedback to the GP were followed up a day later by a call from the consultant to resolve pending queries that I had. There was no sense of any hurry in my putting the questions during the call. Some aspects of the NHS are weighed down by procedural complexity abd waiting lists, but if something is urgent they really get their skates on.

    The immigration issue was also very starkly clear - 90% of the staff were clearly not of UK descent, and the system would instantly collapse without immigrants and the next generation of immigrants.<

    > 1) Sorry to hear that Nick - customary understatement there but even a minor stroke isn't minor! Hope you're on the mend.
    2) Glad the NHS treated you well. Your experience matches mine: in an emergency, the NHS is at its best. And the standard of care the NHS provides is often very good. The standard of customer service however is poor. It feels like the easier problem to solve, yet we never have.
    3) The NHS would collapse without immigrants - this itself seems a bit of a flashing warning light? Ideally, we should be training our own population to do medical work - this isn't low-grade Brits-won't-do-it work, surely?<

    1) Yes, thanks - feel back to normal, though cautious about it! I had a major stroke 15 months ago - total loss of memory etc. - so restrained about celebrating the minor one, but the treatment seems to be keeping off anything worse. I was semi-retired with lots of translation work, but AI has encroached to the point that the remaining work is really badly-paid (an interesting warning to anyone choosing a profession - don't become a translator), and actually I don't need it, so I'm fully retired now, remarried a few months ago, and living a life of idle pleasure.
    2)-3) agreed! I suppose that budget-setters will always prioritise doctors and nurses over bureaucrats, but a smooth service needs bureaucrats too.

    Sorry to hear your troubles. Stroke services are something that has made dramatic strides forward, particularly in larger units that can scan and do interventions radiology around the clock. An on call rota for these things is not viable everywhere.

    I agree on immigrant descended staff. I am one of only 10% of the Medical staff in my department that are ethnically British, though of the others about 50% are British born second or third generation. When I interview for the Medical School only 10-15% of candidates are white British, though nearly all British by birth. The nursing students are a pretty similar bunch. Leicester is seen as a good place to come particularly for British Asians but I expect that even places like Peninsula Medical school or UEA are much the same. It's a bit of a stereotype that Medicine, Law and Accountancy are dominated by British Asians, but not one without some foundation.
    Pharmacy too. A cohort where traditional British names is the minority, but most are 2nd, 3rd generation migrants and as British as me.
    I don't think this is particularly unusual: ambitious immigrants want the safest path for their offspring into the middle classes, and that is very often medicine. When I was a kid growing up in Southwest London, I remember that many of the GPs in our local practice had turbans, and I thought for a long while it was a part of the uniform for doctors.

    I very much doubt this is a British thing. My guess is that doctors in Canada, Australia, and the US are all much more likely to be the children of immigrants.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,891

    The feeedom flotilla drone attack is my favourite story of the day

    It seems very clearly to me to be a self-inflicted flare attack

    The video of the 'missile' coming straight down with lots of sparks coming off it does seem a little odd. And AIUI that was released from their sid.e
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,927
    Qatar bombing

    Fire up the emergency podcast

    https://x.com/campbellclaret/status/1965421320570626526?s=61
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,370
    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of ways you can look at the voting intention of 16-17 year olds, but here's a fun one:

    ➡️ PE and Business Studies students are much more likely to vote Reform
    🌍 The Green Party does best with those who enjoy Drama at school
    🔶 Lib Dems do best with modern language fans
    https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1965428390732976179

    Uh oh.

    PE and Business Studies.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,172
    Scott_xP said:

    The probabilities are fixed when the apples go in the bag but you gain information about the bags. That's the key thing.

    The information doesn't change the probabilities. That's the key thing.
    Which would be fine if the bags were not restricted. But they are. Just because bag a is three random apples, doesn't mean that follows later. The statistics of what you see depend on the evidence you are given.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,897
    Carnyx said:

    Off-topic:

    My son brought a waif home after school today, another boy in his year. I let the boy's mother he was here, then offered him a simple dinner of chicken and rice.

    He is twelve.

    It was the first time he had ever had rice.

    I was flabbergasted.

    I was 18 before I had rice
    When I was a kid, every week my mum would cook some concoction with lentils in it.

    As a result, I *never* cook with lentils... :)

    As for rice: it is simple to cook, but easy to muck up. We do it the Turkish way: fry some orzo in butter before adding the rice and water.
    I like lentils tbf, and split peas. Nice bit of pease pudding.
    Mum was an extremely traditional English cook - and a little of thrift dishes as we weren't ever so well off. Leftover meals, bubble and squeak etc etc and plenty Yorkshires to fill you up with roasts. Suet pudding of savory and sweet kinds, proper Norfolk dumplings and simple sinkers too. Yum.
    But baking was where my mums family all excelled and excel, my great grandma was in service to the local big families (Gurneys etc), a senior member of various kitchens and through her the female members of my clan all bake like its second nature. As do I now tbf
    https://www.norfolk-norwich.com/news/the-norfolk-dumpling.php

    Never heard of those. Tempted as we don't normally use suet in cooking anyway.
    Agricultural workers used to take a steamed Norfolk Dumpling in to the fields and spread with butter and jam instead of bread.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,005
    Sandpit said:

    Omnium said:

    Phillipson undoubtedly thinks she has it in the bag. But having a chat and confidence discussion with your 80 mates isn't necessarily going to give you quite the outcome you imagined.

    Thornberry probably has a more realistic assessment of her own chances.

    Powell I find impossible to judge. Her support seems thin, but Burnham seems to want her.

    The other silly people are just silly, although as its Labour not to be entirely discounted.

    Corbyn was “just silly” in 2015. Then the membership went and elected him.
    Yes, but 80 nominations needed, Corbyn, Sultana etc do not get a vote and the 2024 newbies were rarely Corbynites.

    I think someone to the left of Starmer, but that probably is the entire party bar Streeting.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,189
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT
    Cookie said:

    NickPalmer said:

    > I had a minor stroke a couple of weeks ago and was very impressed by the reaction and follow-up by the local hospital - detailed feedback to the GP were followed up a day later by a call from the consultant to resolve pending queries that I had. There was no sense of any hurry in my putting the questions during the call. Some aspects of the NHS are weighed down by procedural complexity abd waiting lists, but if something is urgent they really get their skates on.

    The immigration issue was also very starkly clear - 90% of the staff were clearly not of UK descent, and the system would instantly collapse without immigrants and the next generation of immigrants.<

    > 1) Sorry to hear that Nick - customary understatement there but even a minor stroke isn't minor! Hope you're on the mend.
    2) Glad the NHS treated you well. Your experience matches mine: in an emergency, the NHS is at its best. And the standard of care the NHS provides is often very good. The standard of customer service however is poor. It feels like the easier problem to solve, yet we never have.
    3) The NHS would collapse without immigrants - this itself seems a bit of a flashing warning light? Ideally, we should be training our own population to do medical work - this isn't low-grade Brits-won't-do-it work, surely?<

    1) Yes, thanks - feel back to normal, though cautious about it! I had a major stroke 15 months ago - total loss of memory etc. - so restrained about celebrating the minor one, but the treatment seems to be keeping off anything worse. I was semi-retired with lots of translation work, but AI has encroached to the point that the remaining work is really badly-paid (an interesting warning to anyone choosing a profession - don't become a translator), and actually I don't need it, so I'm fully retired now, remarried a few months ago, and living a life of idle pleasure.
    2)-3) agreed! I suppose that budget-setters will always prioritise doctors and nurses over bureaucrats, but a smooth service needs bureaucrats too.

    Sorry to hear your troubles. Stroke services are something that has made dramatic strides forward, particularly in larger units that can scan and do interventions radiology around the clock. An on call rota for these things is not viable everywhere.

    I agree on immigrant descended staff. I am one of only 10% of the Medical staff in my department that are ethnically British, though of the others about 50% are British born second or third generation. When I interview for the Medical School only 10-15% of candidates are white British, though nearly all British by birth. The nursing students are a pretty similar bunch. Leicester is seen as a good place to come particularly for British Asians but I expect that even places like Peninsula Medical school or UEA are much the same. It's a bit of a stereotype that Medicine, Law and Accountancy are dominated by British Asians, but not one without some foundation.
    Pharmacy too. A cohort where traditional British names is the minority, but most are 2nd, 3rd generation migrants and as British as me.
    I don't think this is particularly unusual: ambitious immigrants want the safest path for their offspring into the middle classes, and that is very often medicine. When I was a kid growing up in Southwest London, I remember that many of the GPs in our local practice had turbans, and I thought for a long while it was a part of the uniform for doctors.

    I very much doubt this is a British thing. My guess is that doctors in Canada, Australia, and the US are all much more likely to be the children of immigrants.
    Pharmacy never had the restricted student numbers that medicine does and offers better pay than nursing did. So no wonder many people of asian descent headed in that direction, close enough to keep the family happy with a chance of owning your own business long term.

    It's why you see an awful lot of asian opticians for similar reasons..
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,670
    The Rest is Politics have done an emergency podcast on the Qatar attack.

    An advantage of having people with such networks. Rory: One of my contacts was driving past the building when it went up.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBMnDbW2GVg
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,827
    edited September 9

    The freedom flotilla drone attack is my favourite story of the day

    It seems very clearly to me to be a self-inflicted flare attack

    A great example of how an untruth can go around the world before it’s clearly proven to be wrong.

    As opposed to the murder of Iryna Zarutska, where the media totallly ignored a cold-blooded and unprovoked killing that took place in public, because it didn’t fit their preferred ‘narrative’’.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,827
    Taz said:

    Qatar bombing

    Fire up the emergency podcast

    https://x.com/campbellclaret/status/1965421320570626526?s=61

    @RochdalePioneers should sue him for trademark infringement.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 73% do of 18 to 24s do NOT want to abolish the monarchy and only 27% do in other words, once you read past the TSE spin

    Your arithmetic is off. Not to mention your comprehension and logic. The correct balanced figures are 23 and 27 respectively, once your spin is dumped in the wpb.
    Or in other words less than a third of 16s and 17s want to abolish the monarchy
    Which is more than the proportion who want to keep it.
    TSE's header is 'Patriotic Brits reject the monarchy.' Which is the most misleading and biased header ever on a PB Thread.

    First, the poll is only of 16 to 17 year olds NOT of all adult Brits.

    Second, it would need 51% of 16 to 17 year olds to reject the monarchy for that to be accurate, not 27% and of course it would be even lower once they are given the correct forced choice of King William or President Farage or Starmer
    You're still spinning like a bad washing machine. The candidates for HoS would include people such as Sir DA as well as superannuated pols. Not currently active ones.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,005
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of ways you can look at the voting intention of 16-17 year olds, but here's a fun one:

    ➡️ PE and Business Studies students are much more likely to vote Reform
    🌍 The Green Party does best with those who enjoy Drama at school
    🔶 Lib Dems do best with modern language fans
    https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1965428390732976179

    Uh oh.

    PE and Business Studies.
    Stormtroopers with spreadsheets?

    It's a form of progress I suppose!
  • Scott_xP said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kinabalu said:

    The fact of it being chosen at random and being good changes (towards good) the probability distribution of the population of 4.

    No it doesn't
    It does.
    nope

    Imagine a bag containing 4 balls. Each ball has a 50% chance of being white or black

    What are your odds of selecting a white ball?

    I select a white ball and show it to you and put it back.

    What are your odds of selecting a white ball?

    They haven't changed between your 2 attempts...
    But you wouldn't have been able to select a white ball if they were all black.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,106
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 73% do of 18 to 24s do NOT want to abolish the monarchy and only 27% do in other words, once you read past the TSE spin

    Your arithmetic is off. Not to mention your comprehension and logic. The correct balanced figures are 23 and 27 respectively, once your spin is dumped in the wpb.
    Or in other words less than a third of 16s and 17s want to abolish the monarchy
    Which is more than the proportion who want to keep it.
    TSE's header is 'Patriotic Brits reject the monarchy.' Which is the most misleading and biased header ever on a PB Thread.

    First, the poll is only of 16 to 17 year olds NOT of all adult Brits.

    Second, it would need 51% of 16 to 17 year olds to reject the monarchy for that to be accurate, not 27% and of course it would be even lower once they are given the correct forced choice of King William or President Farage or Starmer
    You're still spinning like a bad washing machine. The candidates for HoS would include people such as Sir DA as well as superannuated pols. Not currently active ones.
    No they wouldn't, Sir DA is 99 and will sadly soon be dead.

    Most republics have politician or ex politician heads of state
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,054
    nico67 said:

    Aubrey Allegretti
    @breeallegretti
    ·
    17m
    First official Labour tally of deputy leadership nominations - Bridget Phillipson leads the pack!

    Bridget Phillipson - 44
    Lucy Powell - 35
    Bell Ribeiro-Addy - 8
    Emily Thornberry - 7
    Paula Barker - 3
    Alison McGovern - 2

    These don't include the MPs themselves.

    I’m surprised McGovern is doing so badly . I really expected her to be doing much better .
    Could be just because she declared her intention late in the day. Only 99/400 or so have backed anybody yet. I think McGovern will pick up.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,950

    Scott_xP said:

    The probabilities are fixed when the apples go in the bag but you gain information about the bags. That's the key thing.

    The information doesn't change the probabilities. That's the key thing.
    Which would be fine if the bags were not restricted. But they are. Just because bag a is three random apples, doesn't mean that follows later. The statistics of what you see depend on the evidence you are given.
    Nope

    Your odds of throwing a 6 don't increase just cos I show you that side of a die
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,106
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of ways you can look at the voting intention of 16-17 year olds, but here's a fun one:

    ➡️ PE and Business Studies students are much more likely to vote Reform
    🌍 The Green Party does best with those who enjoy Drama at school
    🔶 Lib Dems do best with modern language fans
    https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1965428390732976179

    Uh oh.

    PE and Business Studies.
    Tories meanwhile do best amongst those who loved Maths, like Rishi and Geography. Labour do best amongst those who liked English then Maths best
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,262
    Scott_xP said:

    The probabilities are fixed when the apples go in the bag but you gain information about the bags. That's the key thing.

    The information doesn't change the probabilities. That's the key thing.
    But it does!

    Eg what if, faced with the bag of 4, you FIVE times select an apple at random (before putting it back) and every time it's a good one.

    Is this going to impact your assessment of the mix of apples in that bag?

    Of course it is. You'll decide (rightly) that they are probably mainly good.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,005
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT
    Cookie said:

    NickPalmer said:

    > I had a minor stroke a couple of weeks ago and was very impressed by the reaction and follow-up by the local hospital - detailed feedback to the GP were followed up a day later by a call from the consultant to resolve pending queries that I had. There was no sense of any hurry in my putting the questions during the call. Some aspects of the NHS are weighed down by procedural complexity abd waiting lists, but if something is urgent they really get their skates on.

    The immigration issue was also very starkly clear - 90% of the staff were clearly not of UK descent, and the system would instantly collapse without immigrants and the next generation of immigrants.<

    > 1) Sorry to hear that Nick - customary understatement there but even a minor stroke isn't minor! Hope you're on the mend.
    2) Glad the NHS treated you well. Your experience matches mine: in an emergency, the NHS is at its best. And the standard of care the NHS provides is often very good. The standard of customer service however is poor. It feels like the easier problem to solve, yet we never have.
    3) The NHS would collapse without immigrants - this itself seems a bit of a flashing warning light? Ideally, we should be training our own population to do medical work - this isn't low-grade Brits-won't-do-it work, surely?<

    1) Yes, thanks - feel back to normal, though cautious about it! I had a major stroke 15 months ago - total loss of memory etc. - so restrained about celebrating the minor one, but the treatment seems to be keeping off anything worse. I was semi-retired with lots of translation work, but AI has encroached to the point that the remaining work is really badly-paid (an interesting warning to anyone choosing a profession - don't become a translator), and actually I don't need it, so I'm fully retired now, remarried a few months ago, and living a life of idle pleasure.
    2)-3) agreed! I suppose that budget-setters will always prioritise doctors and nurses over bureaucrats, but a smooth service needs bureaucrats too.

    Sorry to hear your troubles. Stroke services are something that has made dramatic strides forward, particularly in larger units that can scan and do interventions radiology around the clock. An on call rota for these things is not viable everywhere.

    I agree on immigrant descended staff. I am one of only 10% of the Medical staff in my department that are ethnically British, though of the others about 50% are British born second or third generation. When I interview for the Medical School only 10-15% of candidates are white British, though nearly all British by birth. The nursing students are a pretty similar bunch. Leicester is seen as a good place to come particularly for British Asians but I expect that even places like Peninsula Medical school or UEA are much the same. It's a bit of a stereotype that Medicine, Law and Accountancy are dominated by British Asians, but not one without some foundation.
    Pharmacy too. A cohort where traditional British names is the minority, but most are 2nd, 3rd generation migrants and as British as me.
    I don't think this is particularly unusual: ambitious immigrants want the safest path for their offspring into the middle classes, and that is very often medicine. When I was a kid growing up in Southwest London, I remember that many of the GPs in our local practice had turbans, and I thought for a long while it was a part of the uniform for doctors.

    I very much doubt this is a British thing. My guess is that doctors in Canada, Australia, and the US are all much more likely to be the children of immigrants.
    Disproportionally so. I haven't seen anyone Jewish Medical Student in years, though my department was half Jewish when I joined. After 5 or 6 generations the communities are better established.

    One of my former colleagues was the son of small boat arrivals (in a fishing boat from Norway in 1940).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,950

    Scott_xP said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kinabalu said:

    The fact of it being chosen at random and being good changes (towards good) the probability distribution of the population of 4.

    No it doesn't
    It does.
    nope

    Imagine a bag containing 4 balls. Each ball has a 50% chance of being white or black

    What are your odds of selecting a white ball?

    I select a white ball and show it to you and put it back.

    What are your odds of selecting a white ball?

    They haven't changed between your 2 attempts...
    But you wouldn't have been able to select a white ball if they were all black.
    But they are not all black. We know at least 1 ball in the bag is white.

    Does me showing you a white ball increase your chances of pulling a white ball out of the bag?

    No

    Remember there are 2 bags

    I show you a white ball from each bag.

    Which bag do you pick if you want a white ball?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,804
    Tom Harris 🇬🇧
    @MrTCHarris
    ·
    7h
    We're about to see a very irritating game of "Prolier Than Thou" among the Labour deputy leader candidates as they re-enact the Four Yorkshiremen sketch between now and October.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,950
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The probabilities are fixed when the apples go in the bag but you gain information about the bags. That's the key thing.

    The information doesn't change the probabilities. That's the key thing.
    But it does!

    Eg what if, faced with the bag of 4, you FIVE times select an apple at random (before putting it back) and every time it's a good one.

    Is this going to impact your assessment of the mix of apples in that bag?

    Of course it is. You'll decide (rightly) that they are probably mainly good.
    Yes, but IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE PROBABILITY
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,897
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of ways you can look at the voting intention of 16-17 year olds, but here's a fun one:

    ➡️ PE and Business Studies students are much more likely to vote Reform
    🌍 The Green Party does best with those who enjoy Drama at school
    🔶 Lib Dems do best with modern language fans
    https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1965428390732976179

    Uh oh.

    PE and Business Studies.
    Tories meanwhile do best amongst those who loved Maths, like Rishi and Geography. Labour do best amongst those who liked English then Maths best
    We do appreciate of course that these are just for a bit of fun and are based on tiny subsamples. No more accurate than VI by biscuit choice
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,262
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The probabilities are fixed when the apples go in the bag but you gain information about the bags. That's the key thing.

    The information doesn't change the probabilities. That's the key thing.
    Which would be fine if the bags were not restricted. But they are. Just because bag a is three random apples, doesn't mean that follows later. The statistics of what you see depend on the evidence you are given.
    Nope

    Your odds of throwing a 6 don't increase just cos I show you that side of a die
    That's not an apt comparison.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,950
    @kaitlancollins

    Qatar is refuting the White House's claim that they were given advance warning of the Israeli attack, instead saying the call (which the administration says was from Steve Witkoff) came while the attack was underway.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,950
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The probabilities are fixed when the apples go in the bag but you gain information about the bags. That's the key thing.

    The information doesn't change the probabilities. That's the key thing.
    Which would be fine if the bags were not restricted. But they are. Just because bag a is three random apples, doesn't mean that follows later. The statistics of what you see depend on the evidence you are given.
    Nope

    Your odds of throwing a 6 don't increase just cos I show you that side of a die
    That's not an apt comparison.
    It really is

    The whole point is that the information you are given about the contents of the bags doesn't change the probabilities inside the bag.

    Showing you the dice doesn't change the odds.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,053
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Daily Mail piling in on Mandelson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15080217/Relaxing-bathrobe-best-pal-Jeffrey-Epstein-Britains-ambassador-Washington-Lord-Mandelson-youve-never-seen-before.html

    He can’t survive this. These images even worse than pictures that destroyed Prince Andrew.

    Rather crude comment there from one Mail Online reader 'And people are surprised, he’s had his nose up rich people’s bottoms all his career.'
    My wife read Private Eye for the first time last week, and asked me what was meant by ‘brown nosing’.
    I hope you showed her a clip of a Trump cabinet meeting to illustrate.
    Though orangey brown nosing may be more apposite in that case.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,897

    Tom Harris 🇬🇧
    @MrTCHarris
    ·
    7h
    We're about to see a very irritating game of "Prolier Than Thou" among the Labour deputy leader candidates as they re-enact the Four Yorkshiremen sketch between now and October.

    They cant be as working class as St Angela of Hove or Keir who had to sleep with his flute between various lathes
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,217
    Scott_xP said:

    @kaitlancollins

    Qatar is refuting the White House's claim that they were given advance warning of the Israeli attack, instead saying the call (which the administration says was from Steve Witkoff) came while the attack was underway.

    Steve was probably too busy to call earlier as he was calling to tell the Ukrainians that Russia had bombed them the night before and it was all their own fault.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,950
    @atrupar.com‬

    Leavitt: "The president has one of the most famous signatures in the world, and he has for many many years ... the president did not write that letter. He did not sign those documents. He maintains that position and that position will be argued in court."
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,006
    MattW said:

    The Rest is Politics have done an emergency podcast on the Qatar attack.

    An advantage of having people with such networks. Rory: One of my contacts was driving past the building when it went up.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBMnDbW2GVg

    Very interesting. Attacking a sovereign country other than in self defence is illegal in international law. As Rory says if they had had the peace talks in London would the Israelis have attackedLondon. Well worth listening to. Netanyahu has completely lost his mind.
  • Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of ways you can look at the voting intention of 16-17 year olds, but here's a fun one:

    ➡️ PE and Business Studies students are much more likely to vote Reform
    🌍 The Green Party does best with those who enjoy Drama at school
    🔶 Lib Dems do best with modern language fans
    https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1965428390732976179

    Uh oh.

    PE and Business Studies.
    Stormtroopers with spreadsheets?

    It's a form of progress I suppose!
    There's a BTEC in Public Services which FE colleges run. Think preparation for police, emergency services or military careers.

    For an easily confused A Level teacher, it can be a bit alarming seeing them practicing round the campus.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,005
    edited September 9

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of ways you can look at the voting intention of 16-17 year olds, but here's a fun one:

    ➡️ PE and Business Studies students are much more likely to vote Reform
    🌍 The Green Party does best with those who enjoy Drama at school
    🔶 Lib Dems do best with modern language fans
    https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1965428390732976179

    Uh oh.

    PE and Business Studies.
    Tories meanwhile do best amongst those who loved Maths, like Rishi and Geography. Labour do best amongst those who liked English then Maths best
    We do appreciate of course that these are just for a bit of fun and are based on tiny subsamples. No more accurate than VI by biscuit choice
    Royalists like Bourbons.

    While Republicans go for Garibaldi's.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,262
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Your homework is to keep rereading this bit of the post you're replying to until enlightenment hits you:

    "Child A says, at least one of mine has no holes.

    This rules in (at equal probability):
    ggg, ggb, GBG, bgg, gbb, bgb, bbg

    and rules out:
    Bbb"

    None of which changes the probability of reaching into the bag and selecting a good apple
    This is clearly a bit like the classic probability question - the Monty Hall. Clearly some will think that as the apples were initially randomly chosen and you then randomly pick one it doesn't matter. But if course we know that some possibilities no longer exist. At least one of bag A is good (no holes) ruling out then all being bad. And similarly for bag B they are not all bad.
    The phrasing is tricky, and apparently has been refined from the initial puzzle. Essentially by showing you an apple or just telling you about one you change the statistical distribution that remains.
    In Monty Hall (as noted upthread) the probabilities change during the game.

    In this puzzle the probabilities are fixed by the number of apples in each bag.

    Picking a good one and putting it back doesn't change the probability of you picking a good one

    Crucially in Monty Hall the bad door is NOT put back into the bag...
    The probabilities are fixed when the apples go in the bag but you gain information about the bags. That's the key thing.
    And the only thing you've gained from the information provided is that in both bags 1 apple is good, but the probability for the remaining apples is still 50/50...

    So you have 2 50/50 chances and 1 100% chance in bag A = 66%
    You have 3 50/50 chances and 1 100% chanve in bag B = 62.5%
    A is 57%. Knowing at least one is good is not the same as randomly pulling a specific one and finding it good.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,950
    edited September 9
    kinabalu said:

    Knowing at least one is good is not the same as randomly pulling a specific one and finding it good.

    It really is

    EDIT: Just because you know there is a good 1 in the bag doesn't increase you chances of pulling it out of the bag
  • Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Your homework is to keep rereading this bit of the post you're replying to until enlightenment hits you:

    "Child A says, at least one of mine has no holes.

    This rules in (at equal probability):
    ggg, ggb, GBG, bgg, gbb, bgb, bbg

    and rules out:
    Bbb"

    None of which changes the probability of reaching into the bag and selecting a good apple
    This is clearly a bit like the classic probability question - the Monty Hall. Clearly some will think that as the apples were initially randomly chosen and you then randomly pick one it doesn't matter. But if course we know that some possibilities no longer exist. At least one of bag A is good (no holes) ruling out then all being bad. And similarly for bag B they are not all bad.
    The phrasing is tricky, and apparently has been refined from the initial puzzle. Essentially by showing you an apple or just telling you about one you change the statistical distribution that remains.
    In Monty Hall (as noted upthread) the probabilities change during the game.

    In this puzzle the probabilities are fixed by the number of apples in each bag.

    Picking a good one and putting it back doesn't change the probability of you picking a good one

    Crucially in Monty Hall the bad door is NOT put back into the bag...
    The probabilities change because the set of possible outcomes changes.

    Any time you get information you change the set of possible outcomes.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,897
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of ways you can look at the voting intention of 16-17 year olds, but here's a fun one:

    ➡️ PE and Business Studies students are much more likely to vote Reform
    🌍 The Green Party does best with those who enjoy Drama at school
    🔶 Lib Dems do best with modern language fans
    https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1965428390732976179

    Uh oh.

    PE and Business Studies.
    Tories meanwhile do best amongst those who loved Maths, like Rishi and Geography. Labour do best amongst those who liked English then Maths best
    We do appreciate of course that these are just for a bit of fun and are based on tiny subsamples. No more accurate than VI by biscuit choice
    Royalists like Bourbons.

    While Republicans go for Garibaldi's.
    Andrea Jenkyns is partial to a Lincoln biscuit
  • FPT:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    I just saw Concorde. Didn’t know they keep one at Heathrow. But so it is

    Kinda poignant

    And STILL beautiful

    Concorde is proof we were more advance in the 60/70s than we are today.
    Utterly incorrect. We have the science and technology to build a Concorde replacement, or something better than Concorde, today.

    What we don't have is an economic market for such a plane.
    There was barely an economic market for Concorde at the time. London/Paris to New York was the only one that airlines ever found, and I'm not sure about Paris.

    And now we have video calls, which do a decent percentage of what Concorde did for a tiny fraction of the cost.

    Progress sometimes looks odd.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382
    Scott_xP said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The probabilities are fixed when the apples go in the bag but you gain information about the bags. That's the key thing.

    The information doesn't change the probabilities. That's the key thing.
    But it does!

    Eg what if, faced with the bag of 4, you FIVE times select an apple at random (before putting it back) and every time it's a good one.

    Is this going to impact your assessment of the mix of apples in that bag?

    Of course it is. You'll decide (rightly) that they are probably mainly good.
    Yes, but IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE PROBABILITY
    Fight! Fight!
  • Sandpit said:

    The freedom flotilla drone attack is my favourite story of the day

    It seems very clearly to me to be a self-inflicted flare attack

    A great example of how an untruth can go around the world before it’s clearly proven to be wrong.

    As opposed to the murder of Iryna Zarutska, where the media totallly ignored a cold-blooded and unprovoked killing that took place in public, because it didn’t fit their preferred ‘narrative’’.
    It's all over the media now.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,217

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of ways you can look at the voting intention of 16-17 year olds, but here's a fun one:

    ➡️ PE and Business Studies students are much more likely to vote Reform
    🌍 The Green Party does best with those who enjoy Drama at school
    🔶 Lib Dems do best with modern language fans
    https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1965428390732976179

    Uh oh.

    PE and Business Studies.
    Tories meanwhile do best amongst those who loved Maths, like Rishi and Geography. Labour do best amongst those who liked English then Maths best
    We do appreciate of course that these are just for a bit of fun and are based on tiny subsamples. No more accurate than VI by biscuit choice
    Royalists like Bourbons.

    While Republicans go for Garibaldi's.
    Andrea Jenkyns is partial to a Lincoln biscuit
    I heard she liked chocolate fingers.
  • UK Home Office dangles £1.3M prize for algorithm that guesses your age
    Contract tender follows 'alarming' safeguarding failure at border with undocumented kids

    https://www.theregister.com/2025/09/09/home_office_age_algorithm/
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,897
    boulay said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of ways you can look at the voting intention of 16-17 year olds, but here's a fun one:

    ➡️ PE and Business Studies students are much more likely to vote Reform
    🌍 The Green Party does best with those who enjoy Drama at school
    🔶 Lib Dems do best with modern language fans
    https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1965428390732976179

    Uh oh.

    PE and Business Studies.
    Tories meanwhile do best amongst those who loved Maths, like Rishi and Geography. Labour do best amongst those who liked English then Maths best
    We do appreciate of course that these are just for a bit of fun and are based on tiny subsamples. No more accurate than VI by biscuit choice
    Royalists like Bourbons.

    While Republicans go for Garibaldi's.
    Andrea Jenkyns is partial to a Lincoln biscuit
    I heard she liked chocolate fingers.
    *Francis Urquhart on*
    You might think that........
    *Urquhart off*
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,262
    Scott_xP said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The probabilities are fixed when the apples go in the bag but you gain information about the bags. That's the key thing.

    The information doesn't change the probabilities. That's the key thing.
    But it does!

    Eg what if, faced with the bag of 4, you FIVE times select an apple at random (before putting it back) and every time it's a good one.

    Is this going to impact your assessment of the mix of apples in that bag?

    Of course it is. You'll decide (rightly) that they are probably mainly good.
    Yes, but IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE PROBABILITY
    IT DOES. Having done 5 random draws of a good apple you are armed with information telling you that the probability of picking a good apple from that bag is very high.

    This is not like red/black in roulette or a dice.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,005

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of ways you can look at the voting intention of 16-17 year olds, but here's a fun one:

    ➡️ PE and Business Studies students are much more likely to vote Reform
    🌍 The Green Party does best with those who enjoy Drama at school
    🔶 Lib Dems do best with modern language fans
    https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1965428390732976179

    Uh oh.

    PE and Business Studies.
    Tories meanwhile do best amongst those who loved Maths, like Rishi and Geography. Labour do best amongst those who liked English then Maths best
    We do appreciate of course that these are just for a bit of fun and are based on tiny subsamples. No more accurate than VI by biscuit choice
    Royalists like Bourbons.

    While Republicans go for Garibaldi's.
    Andrea Jenkyns is partial to a Lincoln biscuit
    I would think something half baked would be the Reform choice.
  • If boy A is telling the truth then his bag is a better chance, if he can lie boy B's bag is better
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,891

    FPT:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    I just saw Concorde. Didn’t know they keep one at Heathrow. But so it is

    Kinda poignant

    And STILL beautiful

    Concorde is proof we were more advance in the 60/70s than we are today.
    Utterly incorrect. We have the science and technology to build a Concorde replacement, or something better than Concorde, today.

    What we don't have is an economic market for such a plane.
    There was barely an economic market for Concorde at the time. London/Paris to New York was the only one that airlines ever found, and I'm not sure about Paris.

    And now we have video calls, which do a decent percentage of what Concorde did for a tiny fraction of the cost.

    Progress sometimes looks odd.
    I know someone who is convinced that the Aurora (a super high-tech plane) exist(es) because the SR-71 Blackbird was decommissioned. The argument being that you never get rid of a capability, and the new must be better than the old.

    The problem is that the SR-71's capability could mostly be taken over by spy satellites, and the small gaps in requirement were not worth the extra cost - especially at the risk of a Powers-style incident.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,897
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of ways you can look at the voting intention of 16-17 year olds, but here's a fun one:

    ➡️ PE and Business Studies students are much more likely to vote Reform
    🌍 The Green Party does best with those who enjoy Drama at school
    🔶 Lib Dems do best with modern language fans
    https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1965428390732976179

    Uh oh.

    PE and Business Studies.
    Tories meanwhile do best amongst those who loved Maths, like Rishi and Geography. Labour do best amongst those who liked English then Maths best
    We do appreciate of course that these are just for a bit of fun and are based on tiny subsamples. No more accurate than VI by biscuit choice
    Royalists like Bourbons.

    While Republicans go for Garibaldi's.
    Andrea Jenkyns is partial to a Lincoln biscuit
    I would think something half baked would be the Reform choice.
    Or a biscuit made from distilled rage and bits of flag
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,804
    I'm predicting a draw.

    Can't seem to get a bet on the match being abandoned.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,387
    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of ways you can look at the voting intention of 16-17 year olds, but here's a fun one:

    ➡️ PE and Business Studies students are much more likely to vote Reform
    🌍 The Green Party does best with those who enjoy Drama at school
    🔶 Lib Dems do best with modern language fans
    https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1965428390732976179

    I bet the LDs do best with language fans overall as well.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,217

    FPT:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    I just saw Concorde. Didn’t know they keep one at Heathrow. But so it is

    Kinda poignant

    And STILL beautiful

    Concorde is proof we were more advance in the 60/70s than we are today.
    Utterly incorrect. We have the science and technology to build a Concorde replacement, or something better than Concorde, today.

    What we don't have is an economic market for such a plane.
    There was barely an economic market for Concorde at the time. London/Paris to New York was the only one that airlines ever found, and I'm not sure about Paris.

    And now we have video calls, which do a decent percentage of what Concorde did for a tiny fraction of the cost.

    Progress sometimes looks odd.
    Air France had a popular route for Concorde, I seem to recall, of Paris, Dakar, Rio.

    BA used Concorde for Barbados and both did other routes like Bahrain, Miami and Washington.
  • boulay said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of ways you can look at the voting intention of 16-17 year olds, but here's a fun one:

    ➡️ PE and Business Studies students are much more likely to vote Reform
    🌍 The Green Party does best with those who enjoy Drama at school
    🔶 Lib Dems do best with modern language fans
    https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1965428390732976179

    Uh oh.

    PE and Business Studies.
    Tories meanwhile do best amongst those who loved Maths, like Rishi and Geography. Labour do best amongst those who liked English then Maths best
    We do appreciate of course that these are just for a bit of fun and are based on tiny subsamples. No more accurate than VI by biscuit choice
    Royalists like Bourbons.

    While Republicans go for Garibaldi's.
    Andrea Jenkyns is partial to a Lincoln biscuit
    I heard she liked chocolate fingers.
    *Francis Urquhart on*
    You might think that........
    *Urquhart off*
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJFiByfiRTA
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,950
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The probabilities are fixed when the apples go in the bag but you gain information about the bags. That's the key thing.

    The information doesn't change the probabilities. That's the key thing.
    But it does!

    Eg what if, faced with the bag of 4, you FIVE times select an apple at random (before putting it back) and every time it's a good one.

    Is this going to impact your assessment of the mix of apples in that bag?

    Of course it is. You'll decide (rightly) that they are probably mainly good.
    Yes, but IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE PROBABILITY
    IT DOES. Having done 5 random draws of a good apple you are armed with information telling you that the probability of picking a good apple from that bag is very high.

    This is not like red/black in roulette or a dice.
    It really is

    You seem to be arguing that playing Russian Roulette and not getting shot 5 times makes it less likely you will get shot on the 6th attempt...

    And remember the original problem is which of 2 bags would you pick.

    You know both of them have at least 1 good apple, but knowing that doesn't make 1 bag better than the other
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,212
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Meanwhile, elsewhere, the Nepalese are showing the French the way to *really* remove a PM

    Burning down the elected parliament is just the act of a mob
    They elected a building? No wonder they are pissed.
    A lot of planks nailed together would be a step up on Liz Truss.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,005

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plenty of ways you can look at the voting intention of 16-17 year olds, but here's a fun one:

    ➡️ PE and Business Studies students are much more likely to vote Reform
    🌍 The Green Party does best with those who enjoy Drama at school
    🔶 Lib Dems do best with modern language fans
    https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1965428390732976179

    Uh oh.

    PE and Business Studies.
    Tories meanwhile do best amongst those who loved Maths, like Rishi and Geography. Labour do best amongst those who liked English then Maths best
    We do appreciate of course that these are just for a bit of fun and are based on tiny subsamples. No more accurate than VI by biscuit choice
    Royalists like Bourbons.

    While Republicans go for Garibaldi's.
    Andrea Jenkyns is partial to a Lincoln biscuit
    I would think something half baked would be the Reform choice.
    Or a biscuit made from distilled rage and bits of flag
    Or perhaps a Madeline in Remembrance of Things Past.
  • FPT:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    I just saw Concorde. Didn’t know they keep one at Heathrow. But so it is

    Kinda poignant

    And STILL beautiful

    Concorde is proof we were more advance in the 60/70s than we are today.
    Utterly incorrect. We have the science and technology to build a Concorde replacement, or something better than Concorde, today.

    What we don't have is an economic market for such a plane.
    There was barely an economic market for Concorde at the time. London/Paris to New York was the only one that airlines ever found, and I'm not sure about Paris.

    And now we have video calls, which do a decent percentage of what Concorde did for a tiny fraction of the cost.

    Progress sometimes looks odd.
    The Fifth Dynasty (and beyond) Pyramids were rubbish compared to the Fourth Dynasty masterpieces at Giza.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,897
    Do the apples identify as good or bad and does the High Court recognise the self ID?
    That might change the probability a lot.
    26.3% chance of a TransGood apple followed by a CisGood one
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,551
    Taz said:

    The Lib Dem’s are taking a leaf out of Norman Tebbit’s book in the eighties and pressuring the state broadcaster over its coverage for Reform making it clear the BBC needs to reduce covering them. They’ve just had their party conference for goodness sake.

    This is neither Liberal nor Democratic.

    https://x.com/libdems/status/1965399385505661322?s=61

    I also cannot see how this does them any favours or harms Reform. It simply plays into the Reform claim of being an insurgent the main parties all oppose.

    Pathetic party.

    Absolutely no opposition to this ghastly Government, rather wail about a fellow opposition party. Dereliction of duty.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382

    FPT:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    I just saw Concorde. Didn’t know they keep one at Heathrow. But so it is

    Kinda poignant

    And STILL beautiful

    Concorde is proof we were more advance in the 60/70s than we are today.
    Utterly incorrect. We have the science and technology to build a Concorde replacement, or something better than Concorde, today.

    What we don't have is an economic market for such a plane.
    There was barely an economic market for Concorde at the time. London/Paris to New York was the only one that airlines ever found, and I'm not sure about Paris.

    And now we have video calls, which do a decent percentage of what Concorde did for a tiny fraction of the cost.

    Progress sometimes looks odd.
    Concorde and its American oppos were supposed to be the mass market and the 747 was an interim design made to be easily convertible to freight loading when the self-loading cargo all marched off to go on Concorde and the Boeing 2707.

    instead it ended up being close to a classic Veblenian luxury item (how close depends how seriously one can take the argument about nipping over to NYC for a quick head to head by captains of industry and bacl in time for dinner).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,827

    Sandpit said:

    The freedom flotilla drone attack is my favourite story of the day

    It seems very clearly to me to be a self-inflicted flare attack

    A great example of how an untruth can go around the world before it’s clearly proven to be wrong.

    As opposed to the murder of Iryna Zarutska, where the media totallly ignored a cold-blooded and unprovoked killing that took place in public, because it didn’t fit their preferred ‘narrative’’.
    It's all over the media now.
    Sadly with, in the US at least, some terrible headlines about how drawing attention to these events plays into Trump’s hands about violent crime in cities, and how widespread CCTV “leaks” risk social unrest.

    Rather than how someone can be arrested 14 times for violent offences and still be out on the streets.

    https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/1965041387386114196
  • Scott_xP said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The probabilities are fixed when the apples go in the bag but you gain information about the bags. That's the key thing.

    The information doesn't change the probabilities. That's the key thing.
    But it does!

    Eg what if, faced with the bag of 4, you FIVE times select an apple at random (before putting it back) and every time it's a good one.

    Is this going to impact your assessment of the mix of apples in that bag?

    Of course it is. You'll decide (rightly) that they are probably mainly good.
    Yes, but IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE PROBABILITY
    IT DOES. Having done 5 random draws of a good apple you are armed with information telling you that the probability of picking a good apple from that bag is very high.

    This is not like red/black in roulette or a dice.
    It really is

    You seem to be arguing that playing Russian Roulette and not getting shot 5 times makes it less likely you will get shot on the 6th attempt...

    And remember the original problem is which of 2 bags would you pick.

    You know both of them have at least 1 good apple, but knowing that doesn't make 1 bag better than the other
    You know more than that.

    Clearly you either didn't read the question carefully, or you don't understand probabilities well.

    Draw out the set of possible outcomes for both, with their odds, and see if they're the same.

    Hint: They're not.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Meanwhile, elsewhere, the Nepalese are showing the French the way to *really* remove a PM

    Burning down the elected parliament is just the act of a mob
    They elected a building? No wonder they are pissed.
    A lot of planks nailed together would be a step up on Liz Truss.
    Unless, of course, they were in a certain rectilinear layout with diagonals.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,262
    edited September 9
    Scott_xP said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The probabilities are fixed when the apples go in the bag but you gain information about the bags. That's the key thing.

    The information doesn't change the probabilities. That's the key thing.
    Which would be fine if the bags were not restricted. But they are. Just because bag a is three random apples, doesn't mean that follows later. The statistics of what you see depend on the evidence you are given.
    Nope

    Your odds of throwing a 6 don't increase just cos I show you that side of a die
    That's not an apt comparison.
    It really is

    The whole point is that the information you are given about the contents of the bags doesn't change the probabilities inside the bag.

    Showing you the dice doesn't change the odds.
    Ok one last try ...

    Imagine you ONE THOUSAND times pick an apple at random from the bag of 4 and every single time it's a good one.

    Are you saying this does not change the probabilities of what's inside that bag very strongly in favour of all 4 apples being good?

    Course it does. C'mon.
Sign In or Register to comment.