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Patriotic Brits reject the monarchy – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,669
edited 3:14PM in General
Patriotic Brits reject the monarchy – politicalbetting.com

?Are young people still proud to be British? As @cazjwheeler explains in today’s @thetimes our polling of over 1000 16-17 year olds finds they are as proud to be British as adults 18+ but sometimes express it differently. Piece: https://t.co/TVLtc4CQcE pic.twitter.com/WSdpJjRbRB

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Comments

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,959
    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,501
    32% and 16%, willing to join up, is actually rather a large number.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,212

    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.

    Well, it was at one point, it just wasn't a great success.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,897
    I refuse to believe over half of kids are ranking 'cost of living' as a main concern. The price of Freddos notwithstanding
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,654
    Prince Harry donates £1.1m to Children in Need
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg2xknwyp7o

    Whether Prince Harry still counts as proper royalty is left as an exercise for the reader (and the pollster).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382
    ydoethur said:

    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.

    Well, it was at one point, it just wasn't a great success.
    More successful than staying a kingdom, though, and that was entirely because of the royals.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,212
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.

    Well, it was at one point, it just wasn't a great success.
    More successful than staying a kingdom, though, and that was entirely because of the royals.
    Are you saying that the Scots made a mess of running things?

    *Innocent face*
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382
    edited 3:26PM
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.

    Well, it was at one point, it just wasn't a great success.
    More successful than staying a kingdom, though, and that was entirely because of the royals.
    Are you saying that the Scots made a mess of running things?

    *Innocent face*
    No, given that they were forced to start the process of de-Stuarting for the English.

    But the Stuarts screwed up again big time within, oh, a generation of the counter-revolution of 1660. And they had to do some fairly drastic changes to concepts of divine right and royal succession to sort of preserve a kingdom, not to mention allow the big nobs to perform regulatory capture.

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,845
    Sean_F said:

    32% and 16%, willing to join up, is actually rather a large number.

    But lower than the % of older voters who think young people should join up, I would imagine!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,959
    ydoethur said:

    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.

    Well, it was at one point, it just wasn't a great success.
    It went so badly that staunch Republican supporters couldn't think of a better way forward than inviting back the son of the monarch they'd executed. And shuffling about awkwardly staring at their feet while mumbling an apology.

    Kinda embarrassing really.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,212
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.

    Well, it was at one point, it just wasn't a great success.
    More successful than staying a kingdom, though, and that was entirely because of the royals.
    Are you saying that the Scots made a mess of running things?

    *Innocent face*
    No, given that they were forced to start the process of de-Stuarting for the English.

    But the Stuarts screwed up big time within, oh, a generation of the counter-revolution of 1660.

    Charles got booked by them.

    But the response was Olly over the top.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,187

    Prince Harry donates £1.1m to Children in Need
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg2xknwyp7o

    Whether Prince Harry still counts as proper royalty is left as an exercise for the reader (and the pollster).

    I actually find him less annoying than his brother...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,086

    Prince Harry donates £1.1m to Children in Need
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg2xknwyp7o

    Whether Prince Harry still counts as proper royalty is left as an exercise for the reader (and the pollster).

    He remains a prince and in line to the throne, although he's not a working royal and he's not an HRH in public.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,053
    eek said:

    Prince Harry donates £1.1m to Children in Need
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg2xknwyp7o

    Whether Prince Harry still counts as proper royalty is left as an exercise for the reader (and the pollster).

    I actually find him less annoying than his brother...
    He’s certainly marginally more interesting.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,939
    I am very ambivalent to the royal family but prefer them to a Republic

    Just noticed Brexit is at just 5% but if you read on here it is the cause of everything !!!!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382

    ydoethur said:

    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.

    Well, it was at one point, it just wasn't a great success.
    It went so badly that staunch Republican supporters couldn't think of a better way forward than inviting back the son of the monarch they'd executed. And shuffling about awkwardly staring at their feet while mumbling an apology.

    Kinda embarrassing really.
    That's true. And the Stuarts still made a mess the second time round. Albeit doing one or two useful things like promoting the Royal Navy (following on from the Commonwealth) (although letting it get burnt/captured) and helping establish the Royal Society of London.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382

    I am very ambivalent to the royal family but prefer them to a Republic

    Just noticed Brexit is at just 5% but if you read on here it is the cause of everything !!!!

    BigG, the little persons were watching Teletubbies rather than Andrew Neil at the relevant time ...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,212
    Meanwhile, elsewhere, the Nepalese are showing the French the way to *really* remove a PM

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382
    ydoethur said:

    Meanwhile, elsewhere, the Nepalese are showing the French the way to *really* remove a PM

    "Motorbikes are circulating around the buildings’ compound, with some carrying dug up plants away from the garden [...]"
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,822

    Prince Harry donates £1.1m to Children in Need
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg2xknwyp7o

    Whether Prince Harry still counts as proper royalty is left as an exercise for the reader (and the pollster).

    From his personal account, or via some US-based NGO of which he’s the figurehead?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,212
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Meanwhile, elsewhere, the Nepalese are showing the French the way to *really* remove a PM

    "Motorbikes are circulating around the buildings’ compound, with some carrying dug up plants away from the garden [...]"
    That's not a very respectful thing to call their MPs.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,959
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.

    Well, it was at one point, it just wasn't a great success.
    It went so badly that staunch Republican supporters couldn't think of a better way forward than inviting back the son of the monarch they'd executed. And shuffling about awkwardly staring at their feet while mumbling an apology.

    Kinda embarrassing really.
    That's true. And the Stuarts still made a mess the second time round. Albeit doing one or two useful things like promoting the Royal Navy (following on from the Commonwealth) (although letting it get burnt/captured) and helping establish the Royal Society of London.
    Sure, but arguing about the royals cocking things up in the 17th century seems to ignore the modern reality that they don't have any power these days.

    KCIII has failed to be the toxic monarch republicans expected and hoped for because a modern monarch doesn't have to do anything except turn up. If someone like Charles - who let's face it, it's both a bit of a shit and a bit of an idiot - can manage not to bungle it, then it's hard to see the circumstances in which the British public would turn against the monarchy.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.

    Well, it was at one point, it just wasn't a great success.
    It went so badly that staunch Republican supporters couldn't think of a better way forward than inviting back the son of the monarch they'd executed. And shuffling about awkwardly staring at their feet while mumbling an apology.

    Kinda embarrassing really.
    That's true. And the Stuarts still made a mess the second time round. Albeit doing one or two useful things like promoting the Royal Navy (following on from the Commonwealth) (although letting it get burnt/captured) and helping establish the Royal Society of London.
    Sure, but arguing about the royals cocking things up in the 17th century seems to ignore the modern reality that they don't have any power these days.

    KCIII has failed to be the toxic monarch republicans expected and hoped for because a modern monarch doesn't have to do anything except turn up. If someone like Charles - who let's face it, it's both a bit of a shit and a bit of an idiot - can manage not to bungle it, then it's hard to see the circumstances in which the British public would turn against the monarchy.
    Oh sure, we were discussing the Commonwealth and its merits, not today. Very different now. One can't imagine him sending a military task force to forcibly billet itself on part of Scotland, and to exterminate the resulting rising, as his namesake did, in a time of supposed peace.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,654
    Stonehouse, the television mini-series about John Stonehouse, is being repeated on ITV tonight.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,981

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.

    Well, it was at one point, it just wasn't a great success.
    It went so badly that staunch Republican supporters couldn't think of a better way forward than inviting back the son of the monarch they'd executed. And shuffling about awkwardly staring at their feet while mumbling an apology.

    Kinda embarrassing really.
    That's true. And the Stuarts still made a mess the second time round. Albeit doing one or two useful things like promoting the Royal Navy (following on from the Commonwealth) (although letting it get burnt/captured) and helping establish the Royal Society of London.
    Sure, but arguing about the royals cocking things up in the 17th century seems to ignore the modern reality that they don't have any power these days.

    KCIII has failed to be the toxic monarch republicans expected and hoped for because a modern monarch doesn't have to do anything except turn up. If someone like Charles - who let's face it, it's both a bit of a shit and a bit of an idiot - can manage not to bungle it, then it's hard to see the circumstances in which the British public would turn against the monarchy.
    He isn't the toxic monarch I expected.
    I'm not sure I'd have used the phrase "a bit of a shit and a bit of an idiot" but it certainly wasn't obvious before he took over what positive qualities he would bring to the role to make us like the monarchy - but I think you are right in that the bar is actually rather lower than we imagined.
    But it isn't infinitely lower. Low though the bar is, it's easy to imagine a monarch who fails to meet it - just look at his brother or his younger son.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,005
    OT Ive just heard Israel have bombed Qatar.

    Netanyahu is definitely insane
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,212
    Roger said:

    OT Ive just heard Israel have bombed Qatar.

    Netanyahu is definitely insane

    Unfortunately, he is not insane, he's a criminal holding power by violence.

    What's slightly unusual is that he's shooting other people rather than his own to hang on to power.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,981
    Roger said:

    OT Ive just heard Israel have bombed Qatar.

    Netanyahu is definitely insane

    I've rather lost track. Whose side is Qatar on - Saudi Arabia or Iran?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,822
    Cookie said:

    Roger said:

    OT Ive just heard Israel have bombed Qatar.

    Netanyahu is definitely insane

    I've rather lost track. Whose side is Qatar on - Saudi Arabia or Iran?
    Mostly the latter, although they do their best to dance on both sides of the fence.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,654
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    OT Ive just heard Israel have bombed Qatar.

    Netanyahu is definitely insane

    Unfortunately, he is not insane, he's a criminal holding power by violence.

    What's slightly unusual is that he's shooting other people rather than his own to hang on to power.
    So far.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,212

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    OT Ive just heard Israel have bombed Qatar.

    Netanyahu is definitely insane

    Unfortunately, he is not insane, he's a criminal holding power by violence.

    What's slightly unusual is that he's shooting other people rather than his own to hang on to power.
    So far.
    Why would he need to? He has Hamas to do that for him.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 180
    The last time a Scottish monarch was on the throne he lost his head, I'm not surprised there is more apathy among Scots towards the monarchy

    Jake summed up the situation well. If the monarchy is ever abolished the PM could be head of state
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,185
    For someone in favour of proportional representation, this is an odd thing to say:

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/1965420701143171354

    @EdwardJDavey
    The BBC are constantly fawning over Farage's every move despite Reform only having four MPs. Our national broadcaster should reflect the whole country, not just one man’s ego.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,212
    edited 3:52PM
    DoctorG said:

    The last time a Scottish monarch was on the throne he lost his head, I'm not surprised there is more apathy among Scots towards the monarchy

    Jake summed up the situation well. If the monarchy is ever abolished the PM could be head of state

    James VII actually fled into exile in France.

    Or were you referring metaphorically to his nervous breakdown?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,005
    Cookie said:

    Roger said:

    OT Ive just heard Israel have bombed Qatar.

    Netanyahu is definitely insane

    I've rather lost track. Whose side is Qatar on - Saudi Arabia or Iran?
    Neither they are neutral and peacemakers.

    The good news is a few hundred miles off course and they hit Isabell Oakshott and Richard Tice
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382
    edited 3:55PM
    ydoethur said:

    DoctorG said:

    The last time a Scottish monarch was on the throne he lost his head, I'm not surprised there is more apathy among Scots towards the monarchy

    Jake summed up the situation well. If the monarchy is ever abolished the PM could be head of state

    James VII actually fled into exile in France.

    Or were you referring metaphorically to his nervous breakdown?
    Unlike you to lapse, given we're discussing a Scots monarch. James VII, please.

    Edit: of course, sorry, it was Charles I who was Scots, not James who was London born.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,981
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Roger said:

    OT Ive just heard Israel have bombed Qatar.

    Netanyahu is definitely insane

    I've rather lost track. Whose side is Qatar on - Saudi Arabia or Iran?
    Mostly the latter, although they do their best to dance on both sides of the fence.
    My understanding is also that the wealth of the Qatari gasfields gets directed to some incredibly hardline anti-western Islamic groups in Europe.
    Although it apparently also goes to fund the growth of padel. Maybe it's that that Netanyahu objects to.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,620

    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.

    Not even a banana republic? :wink:

    Britain as a republic is not so hard to imagine. I agree it's hard to think of the United Kingdom as a republic.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,212
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    DoctorG said:

    The last time a Scottish monarch was on the throne he lost his head, I'm not surprised there is more apathy among Scots towards the monarchy

    Jake summed up the situation well. If the monarchy is ever abolished the PM could be head of state

    James VII actually fled into exile in France.

    Or were you referring metaphorically to his nervous breakdown?
    Unlike you to lapse, given we're discussing a Scots monarch. James VII, please.

    Edit: of course, sorry, it was Charles I who was Scots, not James who was London born.
    His father was Scottish.

    Although by that logic, we have just had a Scottish monarch for 70 years.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 180
    ydoethur said:

    DoctorG said:

    The last time a Scottish monarch was on the throne he lost his head, I'm not surprised there is more apathy among Scots towards the monarchy

    Jake summed up the situation well. If the monarchy is ever abolished the PM could be head of state

    James VII actually fled into exile in France.

    Or were you referring metaphorically to his nervous breakdown?
    I was going by place of birth! I dare say some would argue the current Charles III has more Scots blood in him than the young pretender
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,304
    Carnyx said:

    I am very ambivalent to the royal family but prefer them to a Republic

    Just noticed Brexit is at just 5% but if you read on here it is the cause of everything !!!!

    BigG, the little persons were watching Teletubbies rather than Andrew Neil at the relevant time ...
    There's a difference?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,654
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    OT Ive just heard Israel have bombed Qatar.

    Netanyahu is definitely insane

    Unfortunately, he is not insane, he's a criminal holding power by violence.

    What's slightly unusual is that he's shooting other people rather than his own to hang on to power.
    So far.
    Why would he need to? He has Hamas to do that for him.
    I repeat, so far! Can't be a lot of Hamas sharpshooters left.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,054
    edited 3:58PM
    I don't have a problem with the BBC giving a lot of coverage to Reform, given the trajectory of the opinion polls.

    But I do object to that coverage lacking analysis and sometimes being positively sycophantic, as was the case with Chris Mason's oleaginous report on the Reform Conference, which essentially consisted of cheering the party to the rafters. And given that Mason is the BBC's Political Editor, that's not satisfactory.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,212
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    I am very ambivalent to the royal family but prefer them to a Republic

    Just noticed Brexit is at just 5% but if you read on here it is the cause of everything !!!!

    BigG, the little persons were watching Teletubbies rather than Andrew Neil at the relevant time ...
    There's a difference?
    Definitely. Ken Clarke was pro-EU.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,368
    tlg86 said:

    For someone in favour of proportional representation, this is an odd thing to say:

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/1965420701143171354

    @EdwardJDavey
    The BBC are constantly fawning over Farage's every move despite Reform only having four MPs. Our national broadcaster should reflect the whole country, not just one man’s ego.

    Person says thing that is convenient for their political views shocker.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,605
    edited 4:04PM
    Fairly interesting video just shown at the UAP hearing.

    An MQ-9 missile fired at a UAP in Yenen, seems to bounce off it.

    https://x.com/IREPWorld/status/1965442923601793036
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,368
    ydoethur said:

    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.

    Well, it was at one point, it just wasn't a great success.
    It wasn't?

    I would argue that England and Wales made extraordinary progress during the interregnum.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,419
    Daily Mail piling in on Mandelson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15080217/Relaxing-bathrobe-best-pal-Jeffrey-Epstein-Britains-ambassador-Washington-Lord-Mandelson-youve-never-seen-before.html

    He can’t survive this. These images even worse than pictures that destroyed Prince Andrew.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,526
    eek said:

    Prince Harry donates £1.1m to Children in Need
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg2xknwyp7o

    Whether Prince Harry still counts as proper royalty is left as an exercise for the reader (and the pollster).

    I actually find him less annoying than his brother...
    He gets credit for trying to go after Murdoch, as Quixotic as it inevitably turned out to be ...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,368
    eek said:

    Prince Harry donates £1.1m to Children in Need
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg2xknwyp7o

    Whether Prince Harry still counts as proper royalty is left as an exercise for the reader (and the pollster).

    I actually find him less annoying than his brother...
    Isn't that a bit like saying you prefer syphilis to gonnereah?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,368

    Daily Mail piling in on Mandelson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15080217/Relaxing-bathrobe-best-pal-Jeffrey-Epstein-Britains-ambassador-Washington-Lord-Mandelson-youve-never-seen-before.html

    He can’t survive this. These images even worse than pictures that destroyed Prince Andrew.

    He certainly shouldn't survive this.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,212
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.

    Well, it was at one point, it just wasn't a great success.
    It wasn't?

    I would argue that England and Wales made extraordinary progress during the interregnum.
    I'm not sure the Irish or the Scottish enjoyed it much.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,212
    rcs1000 said:

    Daily Mail piling in on Mandelson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15080217/Relaxing-bathrobe-best-pal-Jeffrey-Epstein-Britains-ambassador-Washington-Lord-Mandelson-youve-never-seen-before.html

    He can’t survive this. These images even worse than pictures that destroyed Prince Andrew.

    He certainly shouldn't survive this.
    Nor should Trump, but he will.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,891
    rcs1000 said:

    Daily Mail piling in on Mandelson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15080217/Relaxing-bathrobe-best-pal-Jeffrey-Epstein-Britains-ambassador-Washington-Lord-Mandelson-youve-never-seen-before.html

    He can’t survive this. These images even worse than pictures that destroyed Prince Andrew.

    He certainly shouldn't survive this.
    I'm quite glad that I've always been rather Mandelsonophobic on here... :)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,654

    Daily Mail piling in on Mandelson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15080217/Relaxing-bathrobe-best-pal-Jeffrey-Epstein-Britains-ambassador-Washington-Lord-Mandelson-youve-never-seen-before.html

    He can’t survive this. These images even worse than pictures that destroyed Prince Andrew.

    Well, appointing him wasn't Starmer's best idea, was it?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,891

    Fairly interesting video just shown at the UAP hearing.

    An MQ-9 missile fired at a UAP in Yenen, seems to bounce off it.

    https://x.com/IREPWorld/status/1965442923601793036

    Every so often, the lower-IQ people on here start wittering on about IAPs, and how VITAL NEW UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE!!!! is coming out in some release/meeting/hearing soon.

    And every time, there's a nothingburger.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,654
    rcs1000 said:

    Daily Mail piling in on Mandelson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15080217/Relaxing-bathrobe-best-pal-Jeffrey-Epstein-Britains-ambassador-Washington-Lord-Mandelson-youve-never-seen-before.html

    He can’t survive this. These images even worse than pictures that destroyed Prince Andrew.

    He certainly shouldn't survive this.
    Ironic really, especially if I am right about Mandelson ousting Lammy. The problem is, as others noted on the last thread, is President Trump (who aiui is suing over this so be careful).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,630
    edited 4:10PM
    If Mandelson does get sacked Sir Keir Starmer should appoint me as our man in Washington.

    I have all the skills to be a great diplomat (subtlety etc) plus I really want to be addressed as ‘your excellency’ and end up with a GCMG.

    I did think about joining the Foreign Office after university for those two reasons but realised the private sector paid more.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,605
    edited 4:13PM

    Fairly interesting video just shown at the UAP hearing.

    An MQ-9 missile fired at a UAP in Yenen, seems to bounce off it.

    https://x.com/IREPWorld/status/1965442923601793036

    Every so often, the lower-IQ people on here start wittering on about IAPs, and how VITAL NEW UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE!!!! is coming out in some release/meeting/hearing soon.

    And every time, there's a nothingburger.
    Interesting. I wouldn't regard myself as a lower IQ person, and I wouldn't regard this as a nothingburger, either.

    Much more interesting than the previous hearing, overall, I think. Who knows what it shows.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,098
    "Taking back control from our unelected rulers for a new generation."

    That's a distinction that every schoolboy used to understand.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,385
    tlg86 said:

    For someone in favour of proportional representation, this is an odd thing to say:

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/1965420701143171354

    @EdwardJDavey
    The BBC are constantly fawning over Farage's every move despite Reform only having four MPs. Our national broadcaster should reflect the whole country, not just one man’s ego.

    It might be something to do with leading around 100 opinion polls in a row.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,902

    Daily Mail piling in on Mandelson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15080217/Relaxing-bathrobe-best-pal-Jeffrey-Epstein-Britains-ambassador-Washington-Lord-Mandelson-youve-never-seen-before.html

    He can’t survive this. These images even worse than pictures that destroyed Prince Andrew.

    Well, appointing him wasn't Starmer's best idea, was it?
    Mandelson went from needing to beg a mortgage to a very substantial house in Regents Park in very short order. I'm astonished that the journalistic world haven't been on to him for years. Perhaps it's all very innocent, but perhaps not.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,654

    rcs1000 said:

    Daily Mail piling in on Mandelson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15080217/Relaxing-bathrobe-best-pal-Jeffrey-Epstein-Britains-ambassador-Washington-Lord-Mandelson-youve-never-seen-before.html

    He can’t survive this. These images even worse than pictures that destroyed Prince Andrew.

    He certainly shouldn't survive this.
    Ironic really, especially if I am right about Mandelson ousting Lammy. The problem is, as others noted on the last thread, is President Trump (who aiui is suing over this so be careful).
    What isn't he suing over?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,304

    rcs1000 said:

    Daily Mail piling in on Mandelson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15080217/Relaxing-bathrobe-best-pal-Jeffrey-Epstein-Britains-ambassador-Washington-Lord-Mandelson-youve-never-seen-before.html

    He can’t survive this. These images even worse than pictures that destroyed Prince Andrew.

    He certainly shouldn't survive this.
    I'm quite glad that I've always been rather Mandelsonophobic on here... :)
    I haven't. I admired his skill, his intelligence, his networking and his ability to get things done. I was not displeased when these skills were once again put to service in the public interest. But this is fatal. In the current climate this simply cannot be excused.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,891

    Fairly interesting video just shown at the UAP hearing.

    An MQ-9 missile fired at a UAP in Yenen, seems to bounce off it.

    https://x.com/IREPWorld/status/1965442923601793036

    Every so often, the lower-IQ people on here start wittering on about IAPs, and how VITAL NEW UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE!!!! is coming out in some release/meeting/hearing soon.

    And every time, there's a nothingburger.
    Interesting. I wouldn't regard myself as a lower IQ person, and I wouldn't regard this as a nothingburger, either.

    Much more interesting than the previous hearing, overall, I think. Who knows what it shows.
    It is absolutely a nothingburger.

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This... is not.

    As for low IQ: at least you've not been claiming the Deltics were a good engine. That really is a low-IQ claim... ;)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,948

    I did think about joining the Foreign Office after university for those two reasons but realised the private sector paid more.

    Unless you're BoZo
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,304

    If Mandelson does get sacked Sir Keir Starmer should appoint me as our man in Washington.

    I have all the skills to be a great diplomat (subtlety etc) plus I really want to be addressed as ‘your excellency’ and end up with a GCMG.

    I did think about joining the Foreign Office after university for those two reasons but realised the private sector paid more.

    Would Blair take the post?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,133
    tlg86 said:

    For someone in favour of proportional representation, this is an odd thing to say:

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/1965420701143171354

    @EdwardJDavey
    The BBC are constantly fawning over Farage's every move despite Reform only having four MPs. Our national broadcaster should reflect the whole country, not just one man’s ego.

    They need to be more precise. The issue is not the volume of coverage, but the nature of the coverage. Small parties always get kid gloves on policy and that is fine. Reform are no longer a small party as shown by the volume of coverage and now the kid gloves need to come off.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,822
    edited 4:20PM
    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    Roger said:

    OT Ive just heard Israel have bombed Qatar.

    Netanyahu is definitely insane

    I've rather lost track. Whose side is Qatar on - Saudi Arabia or Iran?
    Mostly the latter, although they do their best to dance on both sides of the fence.
    My understanding is also that the wealth of the Qatari gasfields gets directed to some incredibly hardline anti-western Islamic groups in Europe.
    Although it apparently also goes to fund the growth of padel. Maybe it's that that Netanyahu objects to.
    If it wasn’t for the World Cup, they’d have likely been on the list of ‘bad’ state actors by now.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_diplomatic_crisis
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,670
    edited 4:21PM

    Fairly interesting video just shown at the UAP hearing.

    An MQ-9 missile fired at a UAP in Yenen, seems to bounce off it.

    https://x.com/IREPWorld/status/1965442923601793036

    Every so often, the lower-IQ people on here start wittering on about IAPs, and how VITAL NEW UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE!!!! is coming out in some release/meeting/hearing soon.

    And every time, there's a nothingburger.
    Are the Lib Dems a UAP?

    *innocent face*
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,172

    Fairly interesting video just shown at the UAP hearing.

    An MQ-9 missile fired at a UAP in Yenen, seems to bounce off it.

    https://x.com/IREPWorld/status/1965442923601793036

    Still waiting on the massive disclosure. Still reeling in shock from the retrieval video (egg shot with a green filter).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,172

    Fairly interesting video just shown at the UAP hearing.

    An MQ-9 missile fired at a UAP in Yenen, seems to bounce off it.

    https://x.com/IREPWorld/status/1965442923601793036

    Every so often, the lower-IQ people on here start wittering on about IAPs, and how VITAL NEW UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE!!!! is coming out in some release/meeting/hearing soon.

    And every time, there's a nothingburger.
    As Mick West says - it's always in the low information zone. When it's not, the reality becomes clear.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,654
    Andy_JS said:

    tlg86 said:

    For someone in favour of proportional representation, this is an odd thing to say:

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/1965420701143171354

    @EdwardJDavey
    The BBC are constantly fawning over Farage's every move despite Reform only having four MPs. Our national broadcaster should reflect the whole country, not just one man’s ego.

    It might be something to do with leading around 100 opinion polls in a row.
    Reform 4,117,610 votes – 5 MPs.
    LibDems 3,519,143 votes – 72 MPs.

    If the Honourable Member for falling in the water really cared about proportional representation, he would have insisted that Farage, not he, gets the guaranteed two PMQs each week.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,172
    rcs1000 said:

    Daily Mail piling in on Mandelson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15080217/Relaxing-bathrobe-best-pal-Jeffrey-Epstein-Britains-ambassador-Washington-Lord-Mandelson-youve-never-seen-before.html

    He can’t survive this. These images even worse than pictures that destroyed Prince Andrew.

    He certainly shouldn't survive this.
    He's the undead. He survived three resignations already. A little bit of Epstein won't hurt him.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382

    Fairly interesting video just shown at the UAP hearing.

    An MQ-9 missile fired at a UAP in Yenen, seems to bounce off it.

    https://x.com/IREPWorld/status/1965442923601793036

    Still waiting on the massive disclosure. Still reeling in shock from the retrieval video (egg shot with a green filter).
    I've never recovered from the frothing on here about a video of some alien construct zooming along, which was quite clearly a shaped party balloon in the wind. The concept of relative movement of balloon, ground and camera had completely passed many by.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,925
    The Lib Dem’s are taking a leaf out of Norman Tebbit’s book in the eighties and pressuring the state broadcaster over its coverage for Reform making it clear the BBC needs to reduce covering them. They’ve just had their party conference for goodness sake.

    This is neither Liberal nor Democratic.

    https://x.com/libdems/status/1965399385505661322?s=61

    I also cannot see how this does them any favours or harms Reform. It simply plays into the Reform claim of being an insurgent the main parties all oppose.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,172
    Carnyx said:

    Fairly interesting video just shown at the UAP hearing.

    An MQ-9 missile fired at a UAP in Yenen, seems to bounce off it.

    https://x.com/IREPWorld/status/1965442923601793036

    Still waiting on the massive disclosure. Still reeling in shock from the retrieval video (egg shot with a green filter).
    I've never recovered from the frothing on here about a video of some alien construct zooming along, which was quite clearly a shaped party balloon in the wind. The concept of relative movement of balloon, ground and camera had completely passed many by.
    Twas ever this. Back during the Warminster Thing flap there is a report of orange glowing balls of fire over Salisbury Plain. Obviously flares. The observers claimed as UFOs.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,764
    FPT:

    The Apple Puzzle
    On a tree, half of the apples have holes made by wasps.
    • One boy picked 3 apples at random and said “at least one of mine has no holes.”
    • Another boy picked 4 apples similarly. He showed me one of them at random, and it had no holes. He put it back.
    If you may take just one apple from either boy’s bag, from which boy do you have the better chance of picking an apple without holes?

    Let's number the apples physically, so child A has apples numbered 1-3, child B has apples numbered 1-4.

    We will designated G as good, B as bad

    Child A says, at least one of mine has no holes.

    This rules in (at equal probability):
    ggg, ggb, GBG, bgg, gbb, bgb, bbg

    and rules out:
    Bbb

    Shifts the probability of picking a good apple from 12/24 to 12/21 by removing the 3 bads option = 57.1%

    We have not used the numbers.

    Child B removes 1 apple from the bag, at random, and finds it is good. For the sake of argument we'll say apple 1 has been removed, though it works exactly the same if apples 2 or 3 or 4 are found to be good.

    This rules in (at equal probability):
    Gggg, gggb, ggbg, gbgg, ggbb, gbgb, gbbg, gbbb

    and rules out:
    Bggg, bggb, bgbg, bbgg, bgbb, bbgb, bbbg, bbbb

    (Notice how much more has been ruled out by saying apple #1 of the 4 is good rather than one of the three apples is good)

    Shifts the probability of picking a good apple from 32/64 to 20/32 by removing all the bad apple #1 options) = 62.5%
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,925

    Fairly interesting video just shown at the UAP hearing.

    An MQ-9 missile fired at a UAP in Yenen, seems to bounce off it.

    https://x.com/IREPWorld/status/1965442923601793036

    From the tweet

    ‘We can see the UFO dogging an American Hellfire missile.’

    What kind of UFO is it is it goes dogging !
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,217

    rcs1000 said:

    Daily Mail piling in on Mandelson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15080217/Relaxing-bathrobe-best-pal-Jeffrey-Epstein-Britains-ambassador-Washington-Lord-Mandelson-youve-never-seen-before.html

    He can’t survive this. These images even worse than pictures that destroyed Prince Andrew.

    He certainly shouldn't survive this.
    He's the undead. He survived three resignations already. A little bit of Epstein won't hurt him.
    He’s probably the one who has all the tapes and the dirty secrets from his “pal”.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382
    Taz said:

    Fairly interesting video just shown at the UAP hearing.

    An MQ-9 missile fired at a UAP in Yenen, seems to bounce off it.

    https://x.com/IREPWorld/status/1965442923601793036

    From the tweet

    ‘We can see the UFO dogging an American Hellfire missile.’

    What kind of UFO is it is it goes dogging !
    A peeping tom.

    Seriously, it may be an autocorrect for 'dodging' - but it looks as if there was an oblique impact which didn't initiate the fuze for some reason, but had some effect on trajectory.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,654
    Taz said:

    The Lib Dem’s are taking a leaf out of Norman Tebbit’s book in the eighties and pressuring the state broadcaster over its coverage for Reform making it clear the BBC needs to reduce covering them. They’ve just had their party conference for goodness sake.

    This is neither Liberal nor Democratic.

    https://x.com/libdems/status/1965399385505661322?s=61

    I also cannot see how this does them any favours or harms Reform. It simply plays into the Reform claim of being an insurgent the main parties all oppose.

    As a sometime LibDem voter (and Party worker) I do think the party ought to move carefully on this. The way things are rolling, we COULD be looking at a LibDem and Reform dominated parliament in 2029.

    But, in political terms, that's a long, long time away.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,217
    Taz said:

    Fairly interesting video just shown at the UAP hearing.

    An MQ-9 missile fired at a UAP in Yenen, seems to bounce off it.

    https://x.com/IREPWorld/status/1965442923601793036

    From the tweet

    ‘We can see the UFO dogging an American Hellfire missile.’

    What kind of UFO is it is it goes dogging !
    Full of sextraterrestrials.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,382
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    Fairly interesting video just shown at the UAP hearing.

    An MQ-9 missile fired at a UAP in Yenen, seems to bounce off it.

    https://x.com/IREPWorld/status/1965442923601793036

    From the tweet

    ‘We can see the UFO dogging an American Hellfire missile.’

    What kind of UFO is it is it goes dogging !
    Full of sextraterrestrials.
    A space probe.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,939
    Sky on Mandelson doesn't get any better and now they are linking Clinton

    How on earth can Mandelson explain this away
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,304
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    Fairly interesting video just shown at the UAP hearing.

    An MQ-9 missile fired at a UAP in Yenen, seems to bounce off it.

    https://x.com/IREPWorld/status/1965442923601793036

    From the tweet

    ‘We can see the UFO dogging an American Hellfire missile.’

    What kind of UFO is it is it goes dogging !
    Full of sextraterrestrials.
    They're just sweet transvestites from Transexual Transylvania.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,902
    Taz said:

    The Lib Dem’s are taking a leaf out of Norman Tebbit’s book in the eighties and pressuring the state broadcaster over its coverage for Reform making it clear the BBC needs to reduce covering them. They’ve just had their party conference for goodness sake.

    This is neither Liberal nor Democratic.

    https://x.com/libdems/status/1965399385505661322?s=61

    I also cannot see how this does them any favours or harms Reform. It simply plays into the Reform claim of being an insurgent the main parties all oppose.

    It really is quite unusual for the LDs to say anything worth paying attention to these days. It seems that they want to outshine everyone else in being rubbish.

    Replace Davey with someone that's not an obvious womens candidate (cf Labour deputy) and they could be the next government. That they fail to realise this is astonishing.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,670

    Press Release frmo the House Oversight Committee re: the Epstein book.

    https://oversight.house.gov/release/oversight-committee-releases-records-provided-by-the-epstein-estate-chairman-comer-provides-statement/

    (With a link to the released copy.)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,654
    edited 4:43PM
    Omnium said:

    Taz said:

    The Lib Dem’s are taking a leaf out of Norman Tebbit’s book in the eighties and pressuring the state broadcaster over its coverage for Reform making it clear the BBC needs to reduce covering them. They’ve just had their party conference for goodness sake.

    This is neither Liberal nor Democratic.

    https://x.com/libdems/status/1965399385505661322?s=61

    I also cannot see how this does them any favours or harms Reform. It simply plays into the Reform claim of being an insurgent the main parties all oppose.

    It really is quite unusual for the LDs to say anything worth paying attention to these days. It seems that they want to outshine everyone else in being rubbish.

    Replace Davey with someone that's not an obvious womens candidate (cf Labour deputy) and they could be the next government. That they fail to realise this is astonishing.
    Well, they do need someone more a) photogenic and b) intellectually stimulating. Not sure if Daisy Cooper fits the second criterion.
    Maybe someone will emerge from the Conference. Maybe RP (of this parish) has some idea.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,133
    edited 4:46PM
    Pro_Rata said:

    FPT:

    The Apple Puzzle
    On a tree, half of the apples have holes made by wasps.
    • One boy picked 3 apples at random and said “at least one of mine has no holes.”
    • Another boy picked 4 apples similarly. He showed me one of them at random, and it had no holes. He put it back.
    If you may take just one apple from either boy’s bag, from which boy do you have the better chance of picking an apple without holes?

    Let's number the apples physically, so child A has apples numbered 1-3, child B has apples numbered 1-4.

    We will designated G as good, B as bad

    Child A says, at least one of mine has no holes.

    This rules in (at equal probability):
    ggg, ggb, GBG, bgg, gbb, bgb, bbg

    and rules out:
    Bbb

    Shifts the probability of picking a good apple from 12/24 to 12/21 by removing the 3 bads option = 57.1%

    We have not used the numbers.

    Child B removes 1 apple from the bag, at random, and finds it is good. For the sake of argument we'll say apple 1 has been removed, though it works exactly the same if apples 2 or 3 or 4 are found to be good.

    This rules in (at equal probability):
    Gggg, gggb, ggbg, gbgg, ggbb, gbgb, gbbg, gbbb

    and rules out:
    Bggg, bggb, bgbg, bbgg, bgbb, bbgb, bbbg, bbbb

    (Notice how much more has been ruled out by saying apple #1 of the 4 is good rather than one of the three apples is good)

    Shifts the probability of picking a good apple from 32/64 to 20/32 by removing all the bad apple #1 options) = 62.5%

    The original wording didnt state that the second apple was chosen at random (may allude to it, but unclear), nor the proportion of good or bad apples. Hence the long and confusing discussion as some will still be answering a different interpretation if they didnt see the updated wording.

    "All this talk about polling reminds me of an intriguing puzzle I devised from recent experiences with wasp-damaged apples.
    Anyone who is into the difficulties of polling and sampling may find it interesting. Please post your answers but don't spoil the fun by giving any reasoning or explanation yet:
    Two children pick apples from the same wasp-busy tree.
    Child A picks 3 apples and says: “At least one of mine has no wasp holes.”
    Child B picks 4 apples and shows you one that is definitely hole-free, then puts it back in the bag.
    You may take one apple from one child’s bag.
    From which bag do you have the better chance of getting an apple without holes — A’s or B’s?"
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,526

    Sky on Mandelson doesn't get any better and now they are linking Clinton

    How on earth can Mandelson explain this away

    Doubt he can, clearly didn't think at all about what he was writing

    If Mandelson does get sacked Sir Keir Starmer should appoint me as our man in Washington.

    I have all the skills to be a great diplomat (subtlety etc) plus I really want to be addressed as ‘your excellency’ and end up with a GCMG.

    I did think about joining the Foreign Office after university for those two reasons but realised the private sector paid more.

    And you've always wanted to be manacled in an orange jump suit because of your WhatsApp history?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,841
    DavidL said:

    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    Fairly interesting video just shown at the UAP hearing.

    An MQ-9 missile fired at a UAP in Yenen, seems to bounce off it.

    https://x.com/IREPWorld/status/1965442923601793036

    From the tweet

    ‘We can see the UFO dogging an American Hellfire missile.’

    What kind of UFO is it is it goes dogging !
    Full of sextraterrestrials.
    They're just sweet transvestites from Transexual Transylvania.
    Hopefully a Transitory state of affairs
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,952

    Prince Harry donates £1.1m to Children in Need
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg2xknwyp7o

    Whether Prince Harry still counts as proper royalty is left as an exercise for the reader (and the pollster).

    No way is he a proper Royal if he is giving away money, proper ones only take it.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,125
    At what point does the UK / Europe start to assert itself? We are clearly entering into a new world order where the international rule book is null and void. We keep acting like it’s just business as usual
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,776
    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    I just find it hard to imagine Britain as a Republic.

    Well, it was at one point, it just wasn't a great success.
    It went so badly that staunch Republican supporters couldn't think of a better way forward than inviting back the son of the monarch they'd executed. And shuffling about awkwardly staring at their feet while mumbling an apology.

    Kinda embarrassing really.
    That's true. And the Stuarts still made a mess the second time round. Albeit doing one or two useful things like promoting the Royal Navy (following on from the Commonwealth) (although letting it get burnt/captured) and helping establish the Royal Society of London.
    Sure, but arguing about the royals cocking things up in the 17th century seems to ignore the modern reality that they don't have any power these days.

    KCIII has failed to be the toxic monarch republicans expected and hoped for because a modern monarch doesn't have to do anything except turn up. If someone like Charles - who let's face it, it's both a bit of a shit and a bit of an idiot - can manage not to bungle it, then it's hard to see the circumstances in which the British public would turn against the monarchy.
    He isn't the toxic monarch I expected.
    I'm not sure I'd have used the phrase "a bit of a shit and a bit of an idiot" but it certainly wasn't obvious before he took over what positive qualities he would bring to the role to make us like the monarchy - but I think you are right in that the bar is actually rather lower than we imagined.
    But it isn't infinitely lower. Low though the bar is, it's easy to imagine a monarch who fails to meet it - just look at his brother or his younger son.
    KCIII was raising issues of affordability in housing in the 1980s - and pushed the Crown Estate to take action. Then got into building planned towns before that became fashionable.

    He was big into environmentalism when that got you laughed at. See also sustainable agriculture…

    He also raised issues of race before became fashionable - stuff like embarrassing the Army as to why there were no black soldiers in the guards. Reached out to other faiths etc.

    On a number of big issues he was way ahead of the curve.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,999
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Daily Mail piling in on Mandelson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15080217/Relaxing-bathrobe-best-pal-Jeffrey-Epstein-Britains-ambassador-Washington-Lord-Mandelson-youve-never-seen-before.html

    He can’t survive this. These images even worse than pictures that destroyed Prince Andrew.

    He certainly shouldn't survive this.
    I'm quite glad that I've always been rather Mandelsonophobic on here... :)
    I haven't. I admired his skill, his intelligence, his networking and his ability to get things done. I was not displeased when these skills were once again put to service in the public interest. But this is fatal. In the current climate this simply cannot be excused.
    To be fair on Mandy, I don't think he has ever shown any interest in young girls, even when he was young himself!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,133
    edited 4:56PM

    At what point does the UK / Europe start to assert itself? We are clearly entering into a new world order where the international rule book is null and void. We keep acting like it’s just business as usual

    When our voters are less impressed by the shills funded by Putin and other multi-billionaires.
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