Is it because everyone relentlessly treated Rayner herself like some special-needs child, a young, underprivileged woman who they secretly suspected couldn’t read or write? If you look at the way Starmer spoke about her, it was constantly in these terms: she was a woman, and working class.
Of her actual record, of course: no hint. She was the perfect deputy prime minister for him: a politician allowed to rise to the top on personality alone. And that personality was: middle-class person’s idea of what a working-class person should be. Slobby, ribald, partying in ’Beefa — isn’t vaping on inflatables what working-class people all do? Spoiler alert: it isn’t. Most working-class people are insulted to be compared to her.
Rayner was someone from the bottom 10% who moved into the top 10% through the Labour party.
Its no wonder that Labour politicians, people who are obsessed about the top 10% and bottom 10% and very little in between, turned Rayner into their living icon.
Put the "scum" back in her box where she belongs? We need proper working class heroes like Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and Lucy Connolly.
Poshos at the top is the standard order of things, which is why nobody was bothered about the likes of Blair and Darling.
Whereas Rayner is disconcerting, having gone from bottom 10% to top 10%, entirely through the medium of the Labour party.
That appears great to Labour politicians who are obsessed about those at the top and those at the bottom.
But less so to the 80% who get the impression that Labour isn't interested in them.
There are, of course, other people who have gone from bottom 10% to top 10% - in sport, in entertainment, even in business. But these people leave a trail of visible achievement whereas Rayner was a pretty rubbish housing minister for a year.
Like I said.
She called you "scum" so you don't like her. Nonetheless I don't believe you can dismiss her achievement in becoming Deputy Prime Minister.
And don't forget, Boris got all the big calls right.
Johnson certainly got Ukraine and covid right but he was responsible, much like Rayner, for his own fall from grace
Such is politics
Johnson got Covid right for everyone else but not for himself. Having had it, you'd have thought he'd have been more careful.
He got the PPE fast lane right for the friends and family of Ministers, and Dido Harding was deservedly rewarded for her contribution.
And you might want to look at the 'companies' that Labour MPs were calling about them not using. Some of which were (ahem) interesting.
We needed PPE. We could either get PPE quickly or efficiently. There was zero chance of quickly *and* efficiently.
One reason for the panic was the oft-lauded Jeremy Hunt had failed to stockpile PPE as recommended.
IIRC the 'stockpile' that was recommended was a tiny fraction of the actual need. It would have helped a little, but the same problems would have persisted.
(Is there data for this somewhere?)
TBF the figure that got through to the final draft of the report. For all we know, it might have been watered down from the prima facie sums to stop shocking the horses even more.
Edit: but another way of doing it would be to consider how long the shelf life is vs consumption rate, and at least hold enough to be consumed within the shelf life. I seem to recall that even that sort of cycling was not implemented in normal times - can't recall why.
The problem with stockpiling PPE is that “modern practises” is to use biodegradable plastics in disposable gowns etc.
The French tried using slightly time expired stuff - it literally fell apart.
So you have fairly short life spans - which means that rotating a stockpile for a COVID like event is impractical. You won’t be normally using enough from the stockpile to stop most of it rotting.
So you have 3 choices
1) small stockpile 2) large stockpile and bin vast quantities every day. 3) move to reusable materials.
In addition, many of these “biodegradable” plastics leave a residue of microscopic plastic in the environment which is a big issue.
The answer, it seems to me, is (3). The objection are
1) We don’t do that 2) it’s uncomfortable 3) cleaning is an issue
1) is farcical.
2) is answered by the huge improvements in recent years - I’ve use welding stuff (some welding gives off extremely toxic fumes) that is a *pleasure* to wear in hot weather. It includes belt mounted forced air which goes through a filter - you have personal air conditioning. The visors have built in anti fogging, and the dams/seals can be 3D printed to fit various face structures. Some units include microphone/speaker systems to aid communication - no muffled voices.
3) is answered by jumps in materials technology - stuff that can resist powerful cleaning chemicals - just drop it in a garbage bin full of stuff, let it soak for a few minutes, then wash it off with a pressure washer (or similar)
It’s worth wondering what will happen if we hit a real airborne disease. The existing patchwork of masks, visors and plastic gowns is full of gaps….
Cross infections massively reduced as a result of the shift to single use hospital products, your suggestion is a massive backwards step
We are not talking about devices such a syringes that are hard to clean. Immersion in a vat of chemicals will destroy everything - even prions, with the right chemicals. It should be noted that many items in hospitals are not one use - consider surgeons tools. Which go inside the patient.
The alternative is not to enough PPE, for the next worldwide infection.
When I started in research in chemistry we tended to use glass syringes but now the fashion is single use plastic. Green pressure is pushing back on this. Surely glass syringes can be used in hospital, but it's likely harder than simply opening a sterile plastic one.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
You don’t know if anyone “cared a fig” about Connolly because, as you admit yourself, you don’t “get it”.
What's your point? I genuinely don't understand if it's the Gaza angle, and this just misplaced or the free speech. No, I have no idea of their opinion about Connolly but I am drawing an inference.
My point is simply that you don’t like these people and are simply setting up various straw men that you have “inferred” they are guilty of.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
You don’t know if anyone “cared a fig” about Connolly because, as you admit yourself, you don’t “get it”.
What's your point? I genuinely don't understand if it's the Gaza angle, and this just misplaced or the free speech. No, I have no idea of their opinion about Connolly but I am drawing an inference.
My point is simply that you don’t like these people and are simply setting up various straw men that you have “inferred” they are guilty of.
Why are you suggesting I don't like them? I think them foolish, and I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve.
The UK’s new business secretary, Peter Kyle, is expected to fly to Beijing this week as part of Keir Starmer’s continuing efforts to revitalise the UK’s trade relationship with China and provide growth to the British economy.
Kyle will first travel to Washington as part of the preparations for Donald Trump’s state visit to the UK and has then lined up a meeting in Beijing with the Chinese minister of commerce, Wang Wentao, at the first gathering of the UK China joint economic and trade commission (Jetco) for seven years.
Jetco summits were paused by Boris Johnson in response to Beijing’s crackdown on pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong in 2019, with Covid stalling dialogue in subsequent years.
Is it because everyone relentlessly treated Rayner herself like some special-needs child, a young, underprivileged woman who they secretly suspected couldn’t read or write? If you look at the way Starmer spoke about her, it was constantly in these terms: she was a woman, and working class.
Of her actual record, of course: no hint. She was the perfect deputy prime minister for him: a politician allowed to rise to the top on personality alone. And that personality was: middle-class person’s idea of what a working-class person should be. Slobby, ribald, partying in ’Beefa — isn’t vaping on inflatables what working-class people all do? Spoiler alert: it isn’t. Most working-class people are insulted to be compared to her.
Rayner was someone from the bottom 10% who moved into the top 10% through the Labour party.
Its no wonder that Labour politicians, people who are obsessed about the top 10% and bottom 10% and very little in between, turned Rayner into their living icon.
Put the "scum" back in her box where she belongs? We need proper working class heroes like Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and Lucy Connolly.
Poshos at the top is the standard order of things, which is why nobody was bothered about the likes of Blair and Darling.
Whereas Rayner is disconcerting, having gone from bottom 10% to top 10%, entirely through the medium of the Labour party.
That appears great to Labour politicians who are obsessed about those at the top and those at the bottom.
But less so to the 80% who get the impression that Labour isn't interested in them.
There are, of course, other people who have gone from bottom 10% to top 10% - in sport, in entertainment, even in business. But these people leave a trail of visible achievement whereas Rayner was a pretty rubbish housing minister for a year.
Like I said.
She called you "scum" so you don't like her. Nonetheless I don't believe you can dismiss her achievement in becoming Deputy Prime Minister.
And don't forget, Boris got all the big calls right.
Johnson certainly got Ukraine and covid right but he was responsible, much like Rayner, for his own fall from grace
Such is politics
Johnson got Covid right for everyone else but not for himself. Having had it, you'd have thought he'd have been more careful.
He got the PPE fast lane right for the friends and family of Ministers, and Dido Harding was deservedly rewarded for her contribution.
And you might want to look at the 'companies' that Labour MPs were calling about them not using. Some of which were (ahem) interesting.
We needed PPE. We could either get PPE quickly or efficiently. There was zero chance of quickly *and* efficiently.
One reason for the panic was the oft-lauded Jeremy Hunt had failed to stockpile PPE as recommended.
IIRC the 'stockpile' that was recommended was a tiny fraction of the actual need. It would have helped a little, but the same problems would have persisted.
(Is there data for this somewhere?)
TBF the figure that got through to the final draft of the report. For all we know, it might have been watered down from the prima facie sums to stop shocking the horses even more.
Edit: but another way of doing it would be to consider how long the shelf life is vs consumption rate, and at least hold enough to be consumed within the shelf life. I seem to recall that even that sort of cycling was not implemented in normal times - can't recall why.
The problem with stockpiling PPE is that “modern practises” is to use biodegradable plastics in disposable gowns etc.
The French tried using slightly time expired stuff - it literally fell apart.
So you have fairly short life spans - which means that rotating a stockpile for a COVID like event is impractical. You won’t be normally using enough from the stockpile to stop most of it rotting.
So you have 3 choices
1) small stockpile 2) large stockpile and bin vast quantities every day. 3) move to reusable materials.
In addition, many of these “biodegradable” plastics leave a residue of microscopic plastic in the environment which is a big issue.
The answer, it seems to me, is (3). The objection are
1) We don’t do that 2) it’s uncomfortable 3) cleaning is an issue
1) is farcical.
2) is answered by the huge improvements in recent years - I’ve use welding stuff (some welding gives off extremely toxic fumes) that is a *pleasure* to wear in hot weather. It includes belt mounted forced air which goes through a filter - you have personal air conditioning. The visors have built in anti fogging, and the dams/seals can be 3D printed to fit various face structures. Some units include microphone/speaker systems to aid communication - no muffled voices.
3) is answered by jumps in materials technology - stuff that can resist powerful cleaning chemicals - just drop it in a garbage bin full of stuff, let it soak for a few minutes, then wash it off with a pressure washer (or similar)
It’s worth wondering what will happen if we hit a real airborne disease. The existing patchwork of masks, visors and plastic gowns is full of gaps….
Cross infections massively reduced as a result of the shift to single use hospital products, your suggestion is a massive backwards step
We are not talking about devices such a syringes that are hard to clean. Immersion in a vat of chemicals will destroy everything - even prions, with the right chemicals. It should be noted that many items in hospitals are not one use - consider surgeons tools. Which go inside the patient.
The alternative is not to enough PPE, for the next worldwide infection.
When I started in research in chemistry we tended to use glass syringes but now the fashion is single use plastic. Green pressure is pushing back on this. Surely glass syringes can be used in hospital, but it's likely harder than simply opening a sterile plastic one.
The innocent joys of O-level chemistry. Mouth pipettes, asbestos squares, and no eye protection.
Sadly I was not able to catch much of the Reform conference footage.
Was it established whether it is official policy that vaccines gave the King and Princess of Wales cancer?
I don't think it is. They put Dr Assem Malhotra on the platform. Here's his speech (the Telegraph have the whole thing recorded live). 15 mniutes long.
WTF did they expect by putting a vax denier on stage at their conference? Pretty sure it’s a cynical strategy, ie continually flash some fruitcake, loony and closet racist leg then look all innocent when it goes over the edge.
Yes, that's very much the strategy. A bit like the Tories in 2005 "are you thinking what we're thinking?" Only much darker.
A Dutch salute to the conspiracy theorists, but deniability to the media.
MAGA style "dictator on day one" is to be kept under cover, at least for now.
How does this correspond to 2005?
That was the Tory campaign slogan in 2005.
Yes. And what are you reading into it wrt the current situation?
That Reform are happy to have conspiracy theorists on side (thanks to Social Media these are 15%+ of the electorate) by platforming these people, but maintaining plausible deniability when called out on it.
You see a cunning plan. I reckon it is simply that Nigel Farage has spent too much time in America and has forgotten Reform followers are not MAGA.
Yes, that could be true too.
All party leaders need to strike a balance that keeps together MPs, activists and voters, all of which have divergent interests, to get them singing off the same hymn sheet is what leadership is about.
Farage has particular difficulty because the 3 have very divergent desires. The MPs (and financial backers) want low taxes, no environmental or consumer protections and no rights for employees. The activists want anti-climate science, anti-vaxxing, and no darkies, particularly Muslim ones, the voters want stable communities with well paid blue collar jobs and welfare state.
Farage may well keep them together long enough to get elected, but the probability of outlasting a lettuce as PM is very dependent on his skills in people management. That is an area that he has consistently been very poor at.
I don't think Reform voters are as divergent from the party leadership as you think in terms of wanting lower spending. Reform MPs or those elected as such like Lowe are also firmly anti Muslim immigration and Farage wants to scrap net zero as his voters do.
However there are some differences between Reform voters and the median voter 'According to the latest British Social Attitudes survey, 81% of those who voted Reform last year believe that migrants have undermined rather than enriched the country's culture. Equally 73% feel that migrants have been bad for the country's economy. These figures are very different from those among voters in general, just 31% of whom believe that migration has undermined Britain's culture, and only 32% feel it has been bad for the economy.
Meanwhile, 53% of Reform voters believe that attempts to give equal opportunities for lesbians, gay men and bisexuals have "gone too far". Some 49% say the same of equal opportunities for black and Asian people, while 71% express that view in the case of transgender people. The equivalent figures among the general public are 33%, 18% and 50% respectively.
Only 33% of Reform voters believe that climate change is being caused mainly by human activity, far fewer than the 54% figure among the public in general. As many as 25% state that the climate is largely changing as a result of natural processes, a view shared by just 8% of all voters. Reform voters are less supportive than other voters of virtually any measure designed to address climate change.Opposition to immigration, equal opportunities policies, and climate change measures feature prominently in Reform's campaigning – which often cites spending on these issues as alleged examples of government waste. Indeed, Reform voters are noticeably less keen on government spending too. Only one in four (25%) believe taxes should be increased in order to spend more on "health, education and social benefits", much lower than the 46% of all voters who take that view.' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy853rj2kzo
Is it because everyone relentlessly treated Rayner herself like some special-needs child, a young, underprivileged woman who they secretly suspected couldn’t read or write? If you look at the way Starmer spoke about her, it was constantly in these terms: she was a woman, and working class.
Of her actual record, of course: no hint. She was the perfect deputy prime minister for him: a politician allowed to rise to the top on personality alone. And that personality was: middle-class person’s idea of what a working-class person should be. Slobby, ribald, partying in ’Beefa — isn’t vaping on inflatables what working-class people all do? Spoiler alert: it isn’t. Most working-class people are insulted to be compared to her.
Rayner was someone from the bottom 10% who moved into the top 10% through the Labour party.
Its no wonder that Labour politicians, people who are obsessed about the top 10% and bottom 10% and very little in between, turned Rayner into their living icon.
Put the "scum" back in her box where she belongs? We need proper working class heroes like Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and Lucy Connolly.
Poshos at the top is the standard order of things, which is why nobody was bothered about the likes of Blair and Darling.
Whereas Rayner is disconcerting, having gone from bottom 10% to top 10%, entirely through the medium of the Labour party.
That appears great to Labour politicians who are obsessed about those at the top and those at the bottom.
But less so to the 80% who get the impression that Labour isn't interested in them.
There are, of course, other people who have gone from bottom 10% to top 10% - in sport, in entertainment, even in business. But these people leave a trail of visible achievement whereas Rayner was a pretty rubbish housing minister for a year.
Like I said.
She called you "scum" so you don't like her. Nonetheless I don't believe you can dismiss her achievement in becoming Deputy Prime Minister.
And don't forget, Boris got all the big calls right.
Johnson certainly got Ukraine and covid right but he was responsible, much like Rayner, for his own fall from grace
Such is politics
Johnson got Covid right for everyone else but not for himself. Having had it, you'd have thought he'd have been more careful.
He got the PPE fast lane right for the friends and family of Ministers, and Dido Harding was deservedly rewarded for her contribution.
And you might want to look at the 'companies' that Labour MPs were calling about them not using. Some of which were (ahem) interesting.
We needed PPE. We could either get PPE quickly or efficiently. There was zero chance of quickly *and* efficiently.
One reason for the panic was the oft-lauded Jeremy Hunt had failed to stockpile PPE as recommended.
IIRC the 'stockpile' that was recommended was a tiny fraction of the actual need. It would have helped a little, but the same problems would have persisted.
(Is there data for this somewhere?)
TBF the figure that got through to the final draft of the report. For all we know, it might have been watered down from the prima facie sums to stop shocking the horses even more.
Edit: but another way of doing it would be to consider how long the shelf life is vs consumption rate, and at least hold enough to be consumed within the shelf life. I seem to recall that even that sort of cycling was not implemented in normal times - can't recall why.
The problem with stockpiling PPE is that “modern practises” is to use biodegradable plastics in disposable gowns etc.
The French tried using slightly time expired stuff - it literally fell apart.
So you have fairly short life spans - which means that rotating a stockpile for a COVID like event is impractical. You won’t be normally using enough from the stockpile to stop most of it rotting.
So you have 3 choices
1) small stockpile 2) large stockpile and bin vast quantities every day. 3) move to reusable materials.
In addition, many of these “biodegradable” plastics leave a residue of microscopic plastic in the environment which is a big issue.
The answer, it seems to me, is (3). The objection are
1) We don’t do that 2) it’s uncomfortable 3) cleaning is an issue
1) is farcical.
2) is answered by the huge improvements in recent years - I’ve use welding stuff (some welding gives off extremely toxic fumes) that is a *pleasure* to wear in hot weather. It includes belt mounted forced air which goes through a filter - you have personal air conditioning. The visors have built in anti fogging, and the dams/seals can be 3D printed to fit various face structures. Some units include microphone/speaker systems to aid communication - no muffled voices.
3) is answered by jumps in materials technology - stuff that can resist powerful cleaning chemicals - just drop it in a garbage bin full of stuff, let it soak for a few minutes, then wash it off with a pressure washer (or similar)
It’s worth wondering what will happen if we hit a real airborne disease. The existing patchwork of masks, visors and plastic gowns is full of gaps….
Cross infections massively reduced as a result of the shift to single use hospital products, your suggestion is a massive backwards step
We are not talking about devices such a syringes that are hard to clean. Immersion in a vat of chemicals will destroy everything - even prions, with the right chemicals. It should be noted that many items in hospitals are not one use - consider surgeons tools. Which go inside the patient.
The alternative is not to enough PPE, for the next worldwide infection.
When I started in research in chemistry we tended to use glass syringes but now the fashion is single use plastic. Green pressure is pushing back on this. Surely glass syringes can be used in hospital, but it's likely harder than simply opening a sterile plastic one.
The innocent joys of O-level chemistry. Mouth pipettes, asbestos squares, and no eye protection.
My teacher brought his in collection of radioactive materials and got us testing them with a Geiger counter.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
You don’t know if anyone “cared a fig” about Connolly because, as you admit yourself, you don’t “get it”.
What's your point? I genuinely don't understand if it's the Gaza angle, and this just misplaced or the free speech. No, I have no idea of their opinion about Connolly but I am drawing an inference.
My point is simply that you don’t like these people and are simply setting up various straw men that you have “inferred” they are guilty of.
Why are you suggesting I don't like them? I think them foolish, and I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve.
Quoting you,
“ I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly... even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care”
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
You don’t know if anyone “cared a fig” about Connolly because, as you admit yourself, you don’t “get it”.
What's your point? I genuinely don't understand if it's the Gaza angle, and this just misplaced or the free speech. No, I have no idea of their opinion about Connolly but I am drawing an inference.
My point is simply that you don’t like these people and are simply setting up various straw men that you have “inferred” they are guilty of.
Why are you suggesting I don't like them? I think them foolish, and I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve.
Quoting you,
“ I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly... even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care”
Yes, it's a guess. May be wrong. What's your point?
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
They can protest about Gaza without putting "I support Palestine Action" on their placards. They know exactly what they're doing.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
Sadly I was not able to catch much of the Reform conference footage.
Was it established whether it is official policy that vaccines gave the King and Princess of Wales cancer?
I don't think it is. They put Dr Assem Malhotra on the platform. Here's his speech (the Telegraph have the whole thing recorded live). 15 mniutes long.
WTF did they expect by putting a vax denier on stage at their conference? Pretty sure it’s a cynical strategy, ie continually flash some fruitcake, loony and closet racist leg then look all innocent when it goes over the edge.
Yes, that's very much the strategy. A bit like the Tories in 2005 "are you thinking what we're thinking?" Only much darker.
A Dutch salute to the conspiracy theorists, but deniability to the media.
MAGA style "dictator on day one" is to be kept under cover, at least for now.
How does this correspond to 2005?
That was the Tory campaign slogan in 2005.
Yes. And what are you reading into it wrt the current situation?
That Reform are happy to have conspiracy theorists on side (thanks to Social Media these are 15%+ of the electorate) by platforming these people, but maintaining plausible deniability when called out on it.
You see a cunning plan. I reckon it is simply that Nigel Farage has spent too much time in America and has forgotten Reform followers are not MAGA.
Yes, that could be true too.
All party leaders need to strike a balance that keeps together MPs, activists and voters, all of which have divergent interests, to get them singing off the same hymn sheet is what leadership is about.
Farage has particular difficulty because the 3 have very divergent desires. The MPs (and financial backers) want low taxes, no environmental or consumer protections and no rights for employees. The activists want anti-climate science, anti-vaxxing, and no darkies, particularly Muslim ones, the voters want stable communities with well paid blue collar jobs and welfare state.
Farage may well keep them together long enough to get elected, but the probability of outlasting a lettuce as PM is very dependent on his skills in people management. That is an area that he has consistently been very poor at.
I don't think Reform voters are as divergent from the party leadership as you think in terms of wanting lower spending. Reform MPs or those elected as such like Lowe are also firmly anti Muslim immigration and Farage wants to scrap net zero as his voters do.
However there are some differences between Reform voters and the median voter 'According to the latest British Social Attitudes survey, 81% of those who voted Reform last year believe that migrants have undermined rather than enriched the country's culture. Equally 73% feel that migrants have been bad for the country's economy. These figures are very different from those among voters in general, just 31% of whom believe that migration has undermined Britain's culture, and only 32% feel it has been bad for the economy.
Meanwhile, 53% of Reform voters believe that attempts to give equal opportunities for lesbians, gay men and bisexuals have "gone too far". Some 49% say the same of equal opportunities for black and Asian people, while 71% express that view in the case of transgender people. The equivalent figures among the general public are 33%, 18% and 50% respectively.
Only 33% of Reform voters believe that climate change is being caused mainly by human activity, far fewer than the 54% figure among the public in general. As many as 25% state that the climate is largely changing as a result of natural processes, a view shared by just 8% of all voters. Reform voters are less supportive than other voters of virtually any measure designed to address climate change.Opposition to immigration, equal opportunities policies, and climate change measures feature prominently in Reform's campaigning – which often cites spending on these issues as alleged examples of government waste. Indeed, Reform voters are noticeably less keen on government spending too. Only one in four (25%) believe taxes should be increased in order to spend more on "health, education and social benefits", much lower than the 46% of all voters who take that view.' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy853rj2kzo
I think the answer on tax'n'spend is that many Reform voters assume that it's possible to cut undesirable government spending- whether that's on immigrants or public sector fat cats- leaving space to cut taxes and spend more on goodies for... Reform voters.
As Reform's county councillors are gradually finding, that's mostly rubbish, but it's easy to see why it's a popular concept.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
You don’t know if anyone “cared a fig” about Connolly because, as you admit yourself, you don’t “get it”.
What's your point? I genuinely don't understand if it's the Gaza angle, and this just misplaced or the free speech. No, I have no idea of their opinion about Connolly but I am drawing an inference.
My point is simply that you don’t like these people and are simply setting up various straw men that you have “inferred” they are guilty of.
Why are you suggesting I don't like them? I think them foolish, and I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve.
Quoting you,
“ I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly... even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care”
Yes, it's a guess. May be wrong. What's your point?
Do you honestly believe that the nearly 900 people arrested yesterday would excuse “genuine” acts of terror?
Labour (Yvette Cooper, who ought to have been sacked rather than promoted), have brought the anti-terror laws into disrepute.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
Ignoring the fact that Palestinian Action engaged in terrorism, not peaceful protest.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
They can protest about Gaza without putting "I support Palestine Action" on their placards. They know exactly what they're doing.
Yes, they are protesting the repressive proscription of Palestine Action. That is, indeed, exactly what they’re doing. Top marks.
Is it because everyone relentlessly treated Rayner herself like some special-needs child, a young, underprivileged woman who they secretly suspected couldn’t read or write? If you look at the way Starmer spoke about her, it was constantly in these terms: she was a woman, and working class.
Of her actual record, of course: no hint. She was the perfect deputy prime minister for him: a politician allowed to rise to the top on personality alone. And that personality was: middle-class person’s idea of what a working-class person should be. Slobby, ribald, partying in ’Beefa — isn’t vaping on inflatables what working-class people all do? Spoiler alert: it isn’t. Most working-class people are insulted to be compared to her.
Rayner was someone from the bottom 10% who moved into the top 10% through the Labour party.
Its no wonder that Labour politicians, people who are obsessed about the top 10% and bottom 10% and very little in between, turned Rayner into their living icon.
Put the "scum" back in her box where she belongs? We need proper working class heroes like Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and Lucy Connolly.
Poshos at the top is the standard order of things, which is why nobody was bothered about the likes of Blair and Darling.
Whereas Rayner is disconcerting, having gone from bottom 10% to top 10%, entirely through the medium of the Labour party.
That appears great to Labour politicians who are obsessed about those at the top and those at the bottom.
But less so to the 80% who get the impression that Labour isn't interested in them.
There are, of course, other people who have gone from bottom 10% to top 10% - in sport, in entertainment, even in business. But these people leave a trail of visible achievement whereas Rayner was a pretty rubbish housing minister for a year.
Like I said.
She called you "scum" so you don't like her. Nonetheless I don't believe you can dismiss her achievement in becoming Deputy Prime Minister.
And don't forget, Boris got all the big calls right.
Johnson certainly got Ukraine and covid right but he was responsible, much like Rayner, for his own fall from grace
Such is politics
Johnson got Covid right for everyone else but not for himself. Having had it, you'd have thought he'd have been more careful.
He got the PPE fast lane right for the friends and family of Ministers, and Dido Harding was deservedly rewarded for her contribution.
And you might want to look at the 'companies' that Labour MPs were calling about them not using. Some of which were (ahem) interesting.
We needed PPE. We could either get PPE quickly or efficiently. There was zero chance of quickly *and* efficiently.
One reason for the panic was the oft-lauded Jeremy Hunt had failed to stockpile PPE as recommended.
IIRC the 'stockpile' that was recommended was a tiny fraction of the actual need. It would have helped a little, but the same problems would have persisted.
(Is there data for this somewhere?)
TBF the figure that got through to the final draft of the report. For all we know, it might have been watered down from the prima facie sums to stop shocking the horses even more.
Edit: but another way of doing it would be to consider how long the shelf life is vs consumption rate, and at least hold enough to be consumed within the shelf life. I seem to recall that even that sort of cycling was not implemented in normal times - can't recall why.
The problem with stockpiling PPE is that “modern practises” is to use biodegradable plastics in disposable gowns etc.
The French tried using slightly time expired stuff - it literally fell apart.
So you have fairly short life spans - which means that rotating a stockpile for a COVID like event is impractical. You won’t be normally using enough from the stockpile to stop most of it rotting.
So you have 3 choices
1) small stockpile 2) large stockpile and bin vast quantities every day. 3) move to reusable materials.
In addition, many of these “biodegradable” plastics leave a residue of microscopic plastic in the environment which is a big issue.
The answer, it seems to me, is (3). The objection are
1) We don’t do that 2) it’s uncomfortable 3) cleaning is an issue
1) is farcical.
2) is answered by the huge improvements in recent years - I’ve use welding stuff (some welding gives off extremely toxic fumes) that is a *pleasure* to wear in hot weather. It includes belt mounted forced air which goes through a filter - you have personal air conditioning. The visors have built in anti fogging, and the dams/seals can be 3D printed to fit various face structures. Some units include microphone/speaker systems to aid communication - no muffled voices.
3) is answered by jumps in materials technology - stuff that can resist powerful cleaning chemicals - just drop it in a garbage bin full of stuff, let it soak for a few minutes, then wash it off with a pressure washer (or similar)
It’s worth wondering what will happen if we hit a real airborne disease. The existing patchwork of masks, visors and plastic gowns is full of gaps….
We used loads of date expired PPE during covid, often years out of date. It seemed physically as good as new. Whether it was as microbiologically sound I have no idea.
In high use areas like ITU we had reusable respirators but there were not that many of them. They also often had a poor fit, particularly if not clean shaven, and often also fitted some facial anatomy poorly, particularly smaller Filipino noses. Decontaminating it was tricky too and required air-lock like antechambers to infected zones, which greatly limited capacity (hence the need to convert operating theatres and their recovery areas). Wards simply didn't have the space.
Worth noting that many of the dodgy PPE contracts were not in the immediate crisis of spring 2020, but 6 or even 12 months later. For these there was ample time to ensure if the PPE was fit for service, or even available to the middlemen who were handing out the contracts. Fortunes were made and like the business continuity loans I am sure that there was a lot of dodgy stuff going on that we are now paying off as debt and interest.
It was a one off crisis and in a fast moving situation errors will be made, but even if scrutiny was not done at the time it should be done now.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
They can protest about Gaza without putting "I support Palestine Action" on their placards. They know exactly what they're doing.
Yes, they are protesting the repressive proscription of Palestine Action. That is, indeed, exactly what they’re doing. Top marks.
You'd think an ongoing genocide they believe is happening might take precedence.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
You don’t know if anyone “cared a fig” about Connolly because, as you admit yourself, you don’t “get it”.
What's your point? I genuinely don't understand if it's the Gaza angle, and this just misplaced or the free speech. No, I have no idea of their opinion about Connolly but I am drawing an inference.
My point is simply that you don’t like these people and are simply setting up various straw men that you have “inferred” they are guilty of.
Why are you suggesting I don't like them? I think them foolish, and I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve.
Quoting you,
“ I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly... even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care”
Yes, it's a guess. May be wrong. What's your point?
Do you honestly believe that the nearly 900 people arrested yesterday would excuse “genuine” acts of terror?
Labour (Yvette Cooper, who ought to have been sacked rather than promoted), have brought the anti-terror laws into disrepute.
Don't know. Do you think they all think the government is lying?
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
They can protest about Gaza without putting "I support Palestine Action" on their placards. They know exactly what they're doing.
Yes, they are protesting the repressive proscription of Palestine Action. That is, indeed, exactly what they’re doing. Top marks.
Not even that - they are protesting the repressive arrest of people protesting the proscription of PA. It's all got a bit meta.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
They can protest about Gaza without putting "I support Palestine Action" on their placards. They know exactly what they're doing.
Yes, they are protesting the repressive proscription of Palestine Action. That is, indeed, exactly what they’re doing. Top marks.
You'd think an ongoing genocide they believe is happening might take precedence.
Are you one of those people who moan that it’s not legitimate to protest one cause because there are umpteen other causes?
You must get very shitty about MattW’s obsession with accessible footpaths.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
You don’t know if anyone “cared a fig” about Connolly because, as you admit yourself, you don’t “get it”.
What's your point? I genuinely don't understand if it's the Gaza angle, and this just misplaced or the free speech. No, I have no idea of their opinion about Connolly but I am drawing an inference.
My point is simply that you don’t like these people and are simply setting up various straw men that you have “inferred” they are guilty of.
Why are you suggesting I don't like them? I think them foolish, and I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve.
Quoting you,
“ I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly... even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care”
Yes, it's a guess. May be wrong. What's your point?
Do you honestly believe that the nearly 900 people arrested yesterday would excuse “genuine” acts of terror?
Labour (Yvette Cooper, who ought to have been sacked rather than promoted), have brought the anti-terror laws into disrepute.
Another good thread from @Cyclefree and Mahmood looks to be the rising star
Though the Home Office is a very difficult department of government
I am not sure it is quite as dangerous as when it contained what is now the Justice Department as well. Theresa May survived many years there before becoming PM. The problem at the moment is the mess of illegal immigration and the real problems of doing something effective about it.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
They can protest about Gaza without putting "I support Palestine Action" on their placards. They know exactly what they're doing.
"Palestine, greatest country in the world All other countries are run by little girls!"
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
Well that really is authoritarian. Why wouldn't that apply to all people committing criminal offences?
What you're effectively arguing for is government-approved peaceful protest. You must understand the implications of that.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
You don’t know if anyone “cared a fig” about Connolly because, as you admit yourself, you don’t “get it”.
What's your point? I genuinely don't understand if it's the Gaza angle, and this just misplaced or the free speech. No, I have no idea of their opinion about Connolly but I am drawing an inference.
My point is simply that you don’t like these people and are simply setting up various straw men that you have “inferred” they are guilty of.
Why are you suggesting I don't like them? I think them foolish, and I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve.
Quoting you,
“ I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly... even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care”
Yes, it's a guess. May be wrong. What's your point?
Do you honestly believe that the nearly 900 people arrested yesterday would excuse “genuine” acts of terror?
Labour (Yvette Cooper, who ought to have been sacked rather than promoted), have brought the anti-terror laws into disrepute.
You don't know that.
I’m not making a factual claim. I asked you a question and then provided my own judgment on Labour policy.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
You don’t know if anyone “cared a fig” about Connolly because, as you admit yourself, you don’t “get it”.
What's your point? I genuinely don't understand if it's the Gaza angle, and this just misplaced or the free speech. No, I have no idea of their opinion about Connolly but I am drawing an inference.
My point is simply that you don’t like these people and are simply setting up various straw men that you have “inferred” they are guilty of.
Why are you suggesting I don't like them? I think them foolish, and I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve.
Quoting you,
“ I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly... even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care”
Yes, it's a guess. May be wrong. What's your point?
Do you honestly believe that the nearly 900 people arrested yesterday would excuse “genuine” acts of terror?
Labour (Yvette Cooper, who ought to have been sacked rather than promoted), have brought the anti-terror laws into disrepute.
Don't know. Do you think they all think the government is lying?
More that the government is refusing to act against genocide, in particular by allowing arms exports to the IDF.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
Well that really is authoritarian. Why wouldn't that apply to all people committing criminal offences?
Police should be going after shoplifters, shirley!
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
They can protest about Gaza without putting "I support Palestine Action" on their placards. They know exactly what they're doing.
Yes, they are protesting the repressive proscription of Palestine Action. That is, indeed, exactly what they’re doing. Top marks.
Not even that - they are protesting the repressive arrest of people protesting the proscription of PA. It's all got a bit meta.
Quite so. It’s not even obvious that my posts on here protesting in favour of the protesters are allowed, such is the stupidity and repressiveness of Labour’s laws.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
They can protest about Gaza without putting "I support Palestine Action" on their placards. They know exactly what they're doing.
Yes, they are protesting the repressive proscription of Palestine Action. That is, indeed, exactly what they’re doing. Top marks.
You'd think an ongoing genocide they believe is happening might take precedence.
Are you one of those people who moan that it’s not legitimate to protest one cause because there are umpteen other causes?
You must get very shitty about MattW’s obsession with accessible footpaths.
No, not one of those people. Could make an exception for genocide, though. Rather than thinking of it as one of umpteen other causes.
(Not that I have much idea as to the truth of claims of genocide in Gaza).
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
Well that really is authoritarian. Why wouldn't that apply to all people committing criminal offences?
What you're effectively arguing for is government-approved peaceful protest. You must understand the implications of that.
Also, the idea that the government will let us know eventually why they’ve decided to proscribe a group which inter alia necessitates the arrest of 900 biddies, vicars and cranks, is…optimistic.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
They can protest about Gaza without putting "I support Palestine Action" on their placards. They know exactly what they're doing.
Yes, they are protesting the repressive proscription of Palestine Action. That is, indeed, exactly what they’re doing. Top marks.
Not even that - they are protesting the repressive arrest of people protesting the proscription of PA. It's all got a bit meta.
Quite so. It’s not even obvious that my posts on here protesting in favour of the protesters are allowed, such is the stupidity and repressiveness of Labour’s laws.
I shall take to the streets if you are arrested for protesting the repressive arrests of people protesting the repressive arrests of people supporting the repressive proscription of PA.
And I will expect PBers (including MaxPB and top pal malcolmg) if I am then arrested for protesting the...
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
You don’t know if anyone “cared a fig” about Connolly because, as you admit yourself, you don’t “get it”.
What's your point? I genuinely don't understand if it's the Gaza angle, and this just misplaced or the free speech. No, I have no idea of their opinion about Connolly but I am drawing an inference.
My point is simply that you don’t like these people and are simply setting up various straw men that you have “inferred” they are guilty of.
Why are you suggesting I don't like them? I think them foolish, and I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve.
Quoting you,
“ I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly... even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care”
Yes, it's a guess. May be wrong. What's your point?
Do you honestly believe that the nearly 900 people arrested yesterday would excuse “genuine” acts of terror?
Labour (Yvette Cooper, who ought to have been sacked rather than promoted), have brought the anti-terror laws into disrepute.
You don't know that.
It is without doubt the most absurd policy of this Government. Old ladies, retired vicars? It is lunacy.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
Well that really is authoritarian. Why wouldn't that apply to all people committing criminal offences?
Police should be going after shoplifters, shirley!
I am sure that is something that the PA protesters would approve of.
Yesterday the police arrested an 81 year old woman with Parkinsons who could barely walk as a Terrorist.
It just makes the law absurd and police look cruel. I don't think the police were too happy about it either.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
Well that really is authoritarian. Why wouldn't that apply to all people committing criminal offences?
What you're effectively arguing for is government-approved peaceful protest. You must understand the implications of that.
It's an interesting point. Most protests tend to be legal. And yes of course sometimes people will feel that their cause justifies breaking the law. I do understand that. But how far can you go? Did the IRA get power sharing for Sein Fein by killing people?
To some the actions of PA have already crossed the threshold for terrorism but I sense that is not a majority view on pb. The government claims there is something that cannot be told about why they have been prosrcribed. And until that is revealed we are in limbo.
I do not accept that protesting about Gaza has been restricted. And I do think that these people deliberately getting arrested are being stupid, but again I sense I am in a minority on pb.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
You don’t know if anyone “cared a fig” about Connolly because, as you admit yourself, you don’t “get it”.
What's your point? I genuinely don't understand if it's the Gaza angle, and this just misplaced or the free speech. No, I have no idea of their opinion about Connolly but I am drawing an inference.
My point is simply that you don’t like these people and are simply setting up various straw men that you have “inferred” they are guilty of.
Why are you suggesting I don't like them? I think them foolish, and I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve.
Quoting you,
“ I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly... even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care”
Yes, it's a guess. May be wrong. What's your point?
Do you honestly believe that the nearly 900 people arrested yesterday would excuse “genuine” acts of terror?
Labour (Yvette Cooper, who ought to have been sacked rather than promoted), have brought the anti-terror laws into disrepute.
You don't know that.
I’m not making a factual claim.
Was he? When we seek to infer others' motivations it's never provable 100%, so can only ever be reasonable or not to some degree.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
You don’t know if anyone “cared a fig” about Connolly because, as you admit yourself, you don’t “get it”.
What's your point? I genuinely don't understand if it's the Gaza angle, and this just misplaced or the free speech. No, I have no idea of their opinion about Connolly but I am drawing an inference.
My point is simply that you don’t like these people and are simply setting up various straw men that you have “inferred” they are guilty of.
Why are you suggesting I don't like them? I think them foolish, and I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve.
Quoting you,
“ I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly... even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care”
Yes, it's a guess. May be wrong. What's your point?
Do you honestly believe that the nearly 900 people arrested yesterday would excuse “genuine” acts of terror?
Labour (Yvette Cooper, who ought to have been sacked rather than promoted), have brought the anti-terror laws into disrepute.
Palestine Action already committed terrorism, under the law.
There are groups engaging in peaceful protest, PA is not one of them.
If you want to liberalise the law, that would be reasonable, but turning a blind eye to the actions of PA is not.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
You don’t know if anyone “cared a fig” about Connolly because, as you admit yourself, you don’t “get it”.
What's your point? I genuinely don't understand if it's the Gaza angle, and this just misplaced or the free speech. No, I have no idea of their opinion about Connolly but I am drawing an inference.
My point is simply that you don’t like these people and are simply setting up various straw men that you have “inferred” they are guilty of.
Why are you suggesting I don't like them? I think them foolish, and I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve.
Quoting you,
“ I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly... even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care”
Yes, it's a guess. May be wrong. What's your point?
Do you honestly believe that the nearly 900 people arrested yesterday would excuse “genuine” acts of terror?
Labour (Yvette Cooper, who ought to have been sacked rather than promoted), have brought the anti-terror laws into disrepute.
Don't know. Do you think they all think the government is lying?
This Government has said nothing whilst Bibi tries to starve 2,000,000 Gazans to death. 700 old ladies and former vicars are being arrested for being concerned. "Ooh, but what about Hamas, what about the planes...?"
Hamas not withstanding, ignoring genocide is pretty much a dereliction of duty if nothing more.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
(Snip)
Attacking RAF assets at an airfield is a good example of how PA are not the good guys and gals.
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
How about PA engaging in terrorism, like the terrorist attack on RAF Brize Norton?
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
(Snip)
Attacking RAF assets at an airfield is a good example of how PA are not the good guys and gals.
I’m certainly not arguing that PA are the “good guys”. In fact, I posted some weeks ago that the RAF intruders ought to have been shot at.
However I also said that the proscription was stupid, and as we see it is bringing the government, the police, and anti-terror law into disrepute.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
(Snip)
Attacking RAF assets at an airfield is a good example of how PA are not the good guys and gals.
There is a specific specification for proscribing terrorism groups. Attacking RAF assets is not one of them. So to answer your earlier question, yes, the Government is lying.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
It’s no longer good enough to assume the government has “good reasons”. They ought to put up or, as it were, shut up.
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
How about PA engaging in terrorism, like the terrorist attack on RAF Brize Norton?
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
How about PA engaging in terrorism, like the terrorist attack on RAF Brize Norton?
They should be prosecuted for criminal damage and governments can’t just proscribe groups as terrorists whenever they feel like it . They need to show us the evidence .
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
(Snip)
Attacking RAF assets at an airfield is a good example of how PA are not the good guys and gals.
I’m certainly not arguing that PA are the “good guys”. In fact, I posted some weeks ago that the RAF intruders ought to have been shot at.
However I also said that the proscription was stupid, and as we see it is bringing the government, the police, and anti-terror law into disrepute.
Terrorists! Get a good size penumbra of nutty vicars and grannies to support you! Now you won't get proscribed because it would bring anti-terror law into disrepute. Genius.
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
Even if that would jeopardise a conviction? Pace Tommy Robinson...
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
Police should be going after shoplifters.
Of course they should, but they are also required to keep law and order
The appeal against the prescribing of PA is in the courts and a legal response will be forthcomng
However, nearly 900 people trying to overwhelm the law and the police is simply not correct irrespective of who they were
Once we become a nation where large groups of people, for whatever cause, can successfully overwhelm the police, courts and the law we are in a very dangerous place
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
How about PA engaging in terrorism, like the terrorist attack on RAF Brize Norton?
Were the Greenham Common protestors "Terrorists"?
No. But they didn't damage equipment other than fences, did they? Or do I miss remember?
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
(Snip)
Attacking RAF assets at an airfield is a good example of how PA are not the good guys and gals.
I’m certainly not arguing that PA are the “good guys”. In fact, I posted some weeks ago that the RAF intruders ought to have been shot at.
However I also said that the proscription was stupid, and as we see it is bringing the government, the police, and anti-terror law into disrepute.
I agree with you that proscribing them was silly, and it shows that no-one in government had gamed the situation.
"We could proscribe PA!" "Legally?" "Yes" "Then let's do it!"
Instead of: "We could proscribe PA!" "Legally?" "Yes" "How will they respond?" "Well, they won't just drift away into the woodwork. They might try to embarrass us in some way, and in so doing get a load of publicity that will be bad for us..."
One of my major criticisms of all UK governments is that they do things without considering of indirect consequences of their actions.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
It’s no longer good enough to assume the government has “good reasons”. They ought to put up or, as it were, shut up.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
Well that really is authoritarian. Why wouldn't that apply to all people committing criminal offences?
Police should be going after shoplifters, shirley!
I am sure that is something that the PA protesters would approve of.
Yesterday the police arrested an 81 year old woman with Parkinsons who could barely walk as a Terrorist.
It just makes the law absurd and police look cruel. I don't think the police were too happy about it either.
I am not sure that proscription was the smart answer here. Most "fellow travellers" are simply concerned, and understandably so, about the horrific genocide going on in Gaza. There may be an element within the PA which goes further and the vandalism to our planes was clearly unacceptable (not least because they should have been shot before they did any damage) but the government has created a rod for its own back. I think that was a mistake.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
(Snip)
Attacking RAF assets at an airfield is a good example of how PA are not the good guys and gals.
There is a specific specification for proscribing terrorism groups. Attacking RAF assets is not one of them. So to answer your earlier question, yes, the Government is lying.
I thought there was something beyond the treason commited against the ability of this country to wage war.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
(Snip)
Attacking RAF assets at an airfield is a good example of how PA are not the good guys and gals.
I’m certainly not arguing that PA are the “good guys”. In fact, I posted some weeks ago that the RAF intruders ought to have been shot at.
However I also said that the proscription was stupid, and as we see it is bringing the government, the police, and anti-terror law into disrepute.
Terrorists! Get a good size penumbra of nutty vicars and grannies to support you! Now you won't get proscribed because it would bring anti-terror law into disrepute. Genius.
It is not at all obvious to a significant minority of the British public, and perhaps a majority of those who stop to think about it, that they *are* terrorists.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
Police should be going after shoplifters.
Of course they should, but they are also required to keep law and order
The appeal against the prescribing of PA is in the courts and a legal response will be forthcomng
However, nearly 900 people trying to overwhelm the law and the police is simply not correct irrespective of who they were
Once we become a nation where large groups of people, for whatever cause, can successfully overwhelm the police, courts and the law we are in a very dangerous place
What if the police forces become Nigel's personal Stasi?
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
(Snip)
Attacking RAF assets at an airfield is a good example of how PA are not the good guys and gals.
I’m certainly not arguing that PA are the “good guys”. In fact, I posted some weeks ago that the RAF intruders ought to have been shot at.
However I also said that the proscription was stupid, and as we see it is bringing the government, the police, and anti-terror law into disrepute.
I hope the courts clarify the law on this very quickly but mob rule is not the way forward for any group
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
(Snip)
Attacking RAF assets at an airfield is a good example of how PA are not the good guys and gals.
There is a specific specification for proscribing terrorism groups. Attacking RAF assets is not one of them. So to answer your earlier question, yes, the Government is lying.
I thought there was something beyond the treason commited against the ability of this country to wage war.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
(Snip)
Attacking RAF assets at an airfield is a good example of how PA are not the good guys and gals.
I’m certainly not arguing that PA are the “good guys”. In fact, I posted some weeks ago that the RAF intruders ought to have been shot at.
However I also said that the proscription was stupid, and as we see it is bringing the government, the police, and anti-terror law into disrepute.
I hope the courts clarify the law on this very quickly but mob rule is not the way forward for any group
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
You don’t know if anyone “cared a fig” about Connolly because, as you admit yourself, you don’t “get it”.
What's your point? I genuinely don't understand if it's the Gaza angle, and this just misplaced or the free speech. No, I have no idea of their opinion about Connolly but I am drawing an inference.
My point is simply that you don’t like these people and are simply setting up various straw men that you have “inferred” they are guilty of.
Why are you suggesting I don't like them? I think them foolish, and I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve.
Quoting you,
“ I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly... even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care”
Yes, it's a guess. May be wrong. What's your point?
Do you honestly believe that the nearly 900 people arrested yesterday would excuse “genuine” acts of terror?
Labour (Yvette Cooper, who ought to have been sacked rather than promoted), have brought the anti-terror laws into disrepute.
Don't know. Do you think they all think the government is lying?
This Government has said nothing whilst Bibi tries to starve 2,000,000 Gazans to death. 700 old ladies and former vicars are being arrested for being concerned. "Ooh, but what about Hamas, what about the planes...?"
Hamas not withstanding, ignoring genocide is pretty much a dereliction of duty if nothing more.
He's not doing that good a job if starving 2 million to death is he? He'san absolute shit, almost certainly prolonging things to save his own hide. But others are also prolonging this. Hamas for example.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
(Snip)
Attacking RAF assets at an airfield is a good example of how PA are not the good guys and gals.
I’m certainly not arguing that PA are the “good guys”. In fact, I posted some weeks ago that the RAF intruders ought to have been shot at.
However I also said that the proscription was stupid, and as we see it is bringing the government, the police, and anti-terror law into disrepute.
Terrorists! Get a good size penumbra of nutty vicars and grannies to support you! Now you won't get proscribed because it would bring anti-terror law into disrepute. Genius.
It is not at all obvious to a significant minority of the British public, and perhaps a majority of those who stop to think about it, that they *are* terrorists.
That’s the issue.
We could have the government apply to a court for proscription. But it might have to be a secret court. So it would be only a little better.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
(Snip)
Attacking RAF assets at an airfield is a good example of how PA are not the good guys and gals.
There is a specific specification for proscribing terrorism groups. Attacking RAF assets is not one of them. So to answer your earlier question, yes, the Government is lying.
I thought there was something beyond the treason commited against the ability of this country to wage war.
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
How about PA engaging in terrorism, like the terrorist attack on RAF Brize Norton?
Were the Greenham Common protestors "Terrorists"?
No. But they didn't damage equipment other than fences, did they? Or do I miss remember?
They made cakes and tried to sabotage Cruise Missiles.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
Police should be going after shoplifters.
Of course they should, but they are also required to keep law and order
The appeal against the prescribing of PA is in the courts and a legal response will be forthcomng
However, nearly 900 people trying to overwhelm the law and the police is simply not correct irrespective of who they were
Once we become a nation where large groups of people, for whatever cause, can successfully overwhelm the police, courts and the law we are in a very dangerous place
What if the police forces become Nigel's personal Stasi?
Simple question - do you support trying to overwhelm the police, courts, and the law in this country by any group of people to any law you disagree with ?
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
(Snip)
Attacking RAF assets at an airfield is a good example of how PA are not the good guys and gals.
I’m certainly not arguing that PA are the “good guys”. In fact, I posted some weeks ago that the RAF intruders ought to have been shot at.
However I also said that the proscription was stupid, and as we see it is bringing the government, the police, and anti-terror law into disrepute.
Terrorists! Get a good size penumbra of nutty vicars and grannies to support you! Now you won't get proscribed because it would bring anti-terror law into disrepute. Genius.
It is not at all obvious to a significant minority of the British public, and perhaps a majority of those who stop to think about it, that they *are* terrorists.
That’s the issue.
We could have the government apply to a court for proscription. But it might have to be a secret court. So it would be only a little better.
I would be happy if they had to apply to a court, AND it was assumed that such court was public, unless the government were to successfully apply otherwise to another, separate court, to have it private.
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
How about PA engaging in terrorism, like the terrorist attack on RAF Brize Norton?
Were the Greenham Common protestors "Terrorists"?
No. But they didn't damage equipment other than fences, did they? Or do I miss remember?
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
How about PA engaging in terrorism, like the terrorist attack on RAF Brize Norton?
They should be prosecuted for criminal damage and governments can’t just proscribe groups as terrorists whenever they feel like it . They need to show us the evidence .
It's not that simple, is it? If the evidence is intelligence based and might endanger agents or operations. Or put a trial in jeopardy.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
(Snip)
Attacking RAF assets at an airfield is a good example of how PA are not the good guys and gals.
There is a specific specification for proscribing terrorism groups. Attacking RAF assets is not one of them. So to answer your earlier question, yes, the Government is lying.
I thought there was something beyond the treason commited against the ability of this country to wage war.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
(Snip)
Attacking RAF assets at an airfield is a good example of how PA are not the good guys and gals.
There is a specific specification for proscribing terrorism groups. Attacking RAF assets is not one of them. So to answer your earlier question, yes, the Government is lying.
I thought there was something beyond the treason commited against the ability of this country to wage war.
Are we at war?
We are certainly in a cold war with Russia.
We were in a cold war with Russia when ladies were sabotaging Cruise Missiles at Greenham, Molesworth and Alconbury.
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
How about PA engaging in terrorism, like the terrorist attack on RAF Brize Norton?
Were the Greenham Common protestors "Terrorists"?
No. But they didn't damage equipment other than fences, did they? Or do I miss remember?
Greenpeace then?
Presumably the French thought so. Luckily, we're more civilized than the french.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
It’s no longer good enough to assume the government has “good reasons”. They ought to put up or, as it were, shut up.
As I have already said it is correctly being challenged in the courts and they will decide - mob rule is not the way forward
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
Police should be going after shoplifters.
Of course they should, but they are also required to keep law and order
The appeal against the prescribing of PA is in the courts and a legal response will be forthcomng
However, nearly 900 people trying to overwhelm the law and the police is simply not correct irrespective of who they were
Once we become a nation where large groups of people, for whatever cause, can successfully overwhelm the police, courts and the law we are in a very dangerous place
What if the police forces become Nigel's personal Stasi?
Simple question - do you support trying to overwhelm the police, courts, and the law in this country by any group of people to any law you disagree with ?
Do you support the right to protest? Because it sounds like you don’t.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
Police should be going after shoplifters.
Of course they should, but they are also required to keep law and order
The appeal against the prescribing of PA is in the courts and a legal response will be forthcomng
However, nearly 900 people trying to overwhelm the law and the police is simply not correct irrespective of who they were
Once we become a nation where large groups of people, for whatever cause, can successfully overwhelm the police, courts and the law we are in a very dangerous place
What if the police forces become Nigel's personal Stasi?
If there is a reason that this group have been proscribed then let us know what it is. Their dark hints of sinister activity doesn't cut it.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
(Snip)
Attacking RAF assets at an airfield is a good example of how PA are not the good guys and gals.
There is a specific specification for proscribing terrorism groups. Attacking RAF assets is not one of them. So to answer your earlier question, yes, the Government is lying.
I thought there was something beyond the treason commited against the ability of this country to wage war.
Are we at war?
Some say yes, with Putin. And most wars start with someone attacking someone else. Degrade our equipment and it's aiding a potential enemy.
Another good thread from @Cyclefree and Mahmood looks to be the rising star
Though the Home Office is a very difficult department of government
I am not sure it is quite as dangerous as when it contained what is now the Justice Department as well. Theresa May survived many years there before becoming PM. The problem at the moment is the mess of illegal immigration and the real problems of doing something effective about it.
The Occamite answer to why Shabana Mahmood is Home Secretary is that she has done a decent job at Justice of defusing the prison places fiasco bequeathed by the previous government, and so she is HMG's best chance of defusing the most loudly-ticking explosive device still in the in-tray.
I'm not sure that stemming the boats will be enough to put Farage back in his box; my hunch is that he will just change the subject again. But anyone who doesn't want a bunch of fruitcakes stomping in to government surely has to wish her the very best of British.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
Police should be going after shoplifters.
Of course they should, but they are also required to keep law and order
The appeal against the prescribing of PA is in the courts and a legal response will be forthcomng
However, nearly 900 people trying to overwhelm the law and the police is simply not correct irrespective of who they were
Once we become a nation where large groups of people, for whatever cause, can successfully overwhelm the police, courts and the law we are in a very dangerous place
What if the police forces become Nigel's personal Stasi?
Simple question - do you support trying to overwhelm the police, courts, and the law in this country by any group of people to any law you disagree with ?
Giving the police power to arrest old tarts and vicars might not be so optimal when Nigel becomes Fuhrer.
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
How about PA engaging in terrorism, like the terrorist attack on RAF Brize Norton?
Were the Greenham Common protestors "Terrorists"?
No. But they didn't damage equipment other than fences, did they? Or do I miss remember?
They made cakes and tried to sabotage Cruise Missiles.
Whereas Islamic extremists try to make cruise missiles and sabotage cakes.
Thanks to whomever linked that Aseem Malhotra speech above. I thought it was very good - I think it's very hard to disagree with his core message. It is not entirely right and proper for a medical regulator to be funded by the organisations that it's supposed to regulate, nor should we consider the advice of the WHO to be impartial when it is supported to the extent that it appears to be by Bill Gates, who is deeply financially invested in many of the things that it promotes. Most people here are appalled at the idea of tame regulators doing industry's bidding - this is the same.
I have no way of evaluating his message from Dr Angus Dalgliesh that vaccines may have been responsible for the Royal family's health issues. AI tells me Dr Dalgliesh is indeed an eminent oncologist, so that at least is true.
I was grateful for the vaccine. I had my two Astra Zeneca and made the decision to stop there. I have never regretted my decision to take the vaccine, or to stop taking them.
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
How about PA engaging in terrorism, like the terrorist attack on RAF Brize Norton?
Were the Greenham Common protestors "Terrorists"?
No. But they didn't damage equipment other than fences, did they? Or do I miss remember?
They made cakes and tried to sabotage Cruise Missiles.
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
How about PA engaging in terrorism, like the terrorist attack on RAF Brize Norton?
Were the Greenham Common protestors "Terrorists"?
No. But they didn't damage equipment other than fences, did they? Or do I miss remember?
No. I was at uni with some GC women and they didn't go near the missile bunkers, no doubt because they'd have been shot. The fence was around the airfield as a whole - which was absolutely enormous as I recall from visits (for air displays!).
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
Police should be going after shoplifters.
Of course they should, but they are also required to keep law and order
The appeal against the prescribing of PA is in the courts and a legal response will be forthcomng
However, nearly 900 people trying to overwhelm the law and the police is simply not correct irrespective of who they were
Once we become a nation where large groups of people, for whatever cause, can successfully overwhelm the police, courts and the law we are in a very dangerous place
What if the police forces become Nigel's personal Stasi?
Simple question - do you support trying to overwhelm the police, courts, and the law in this country by any group of people to any law you disagree with ?
Giving the police power to arrest old tarts and vicars might not be so optimal when Nigel becomes Fuhrer.
Thanks to whomever linked that Aseem Malhotra speech above. I thought it was very good - I think it's very hard to disagree with his core message. It is not entirely right and proper for a medical regulator to be funded by the organisations that it's supposed to regulate, nor should we consider the advice of the WHO to be impartial when it is supported to the extent that it appears to be by Bill Gates, who is deeply financially invested in many of the things that it promotes. Most people here are appalled at the idea of tame regulators doing industry's bidding - this is the same.
I have no way of evaluating his message from Dr Angus Dalgliesh that vaccines may have been responsible for the Royal family's health issues. AI tells me Dr Dalgliesh is indeed an eminent oncologist, so that at least is true.
I was grateful for the vaccine. I had my two Astra Zeneca and made the decision to stop there. I have never regretted my decision to take the vaccine, or to stop taking them.
Oncologists aren't necessarily epidemiologists or statisticians. Has Dr Dalgliesh published a study, if need be in collaboration with the relevant other specialists?
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
Even if that would jeopardise a conviction? Pace Tommy Robinson...
I expect the case will still be going on when I’m pushing a zimmer frame around ! I don’t believe them and they rushed into this proscribing of PA because of right wing media pressure.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
You don’t know if anyone “cared a fig” about Connolly because, as you admit yourself, you don’t “get it”.
What's your point? I genuinely don't understand if it's the Gaza angle, and this just misplaced or the free speech. No, I have no idea of their opinion about Connolly but I am drawing an inference.
My point is simply that you don’t like these people and are simply setting up various straw men that you have “inferred” they are guilty of.
Why are you suggesting I don't like them? I think them foolish, and I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve.
Quoting you,
“ I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly... even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care”
Yes, it's a guess. May be wrong. What's your point?
Do you honestly believe that the nearly 900 people arrested yesterday would excuse “genuine” acts of terror?
Labour (Yvette Cooper, who ought to have been sacked rather than promoted), have brought the anti-terror laws into disrepute.
Don't know. Do you think they all think the government is lying?
This Government has said nothing whilst Bibi tries to starve 2,000,000 Gazans to death. 700 old ladies and former vicars are being arrested for being concerned. "Ooh, but what about Hamas, what about the planes...?"
Hamas not withstanding, ignoring genocide is pretty much a dereliction of duty if nothing more.
He's not doing that good a job if starving 2 million to death is he? He'san absolute shit, almost certainly prolonging things to save his own hide. But others are also prolonging this. Hamas for example.
I say this with a heavy heart but Sultana is correct and Starmer is complicit in genocide and there is a dock at the Hague waiting for him if he doesn't act.
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
How about PA engaging in terrorism, like the terrorist attack on RAF Brize Norton?
They should be prosecuted for criminal damage and governments can’t just proscribe groups as terrorists whenever they feel like it . They need to show us the evidence .
It's not that simple, is it? If the evidence is intelligence based and might endanger agents or operations. Or put a trial in jeopardy.
Well they certainly shouldn't be charging people as terrorists for protesting the proscribtion of a group for which they won't reveal why they've prescribed them.
I actually think they were on firmer ground with the plane thing.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
You don’t know if anyone “cared a fig” about Connolly because, as you admit yourself, you don’t “get it”.
What's your point? I genuinely don't understand if it's the Gaza angle, and this just misplaced or the free speech. No, I have no idea of their opinion about Connolly but I am drawing an inference.
My point is simply that you don’t like these people and are simply setting up various straw men that you have “inferred” they are guilty of.
Why are you suggesting I don't like them? I think them foolish, and I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve.
Quoting you,
“ I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly... even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care”
Yes, it's a guess. May be wrong. What's your point?
Do you honestly believe that the nearly 900 people arrested yesterday would excuse “genuine” acts of terror?
Labour (Yvette Cooper, who ought to have been sacked rather than promoted), have brought the anti-terror laws into disrepute.
Don't know. Do you think they all think the government is lying?
This Government has said nothing whilst Bibi tries to starve 2,000,000 Gazans to death. 700 old ladies and former vicars are being arrested for being concerned. "Ooh, but what about Hamas, what about the planes...?"
Hamas not withstanding, ignoring genocide is pretty much a dereliction of duty if nothing more.
He's not doing that good a job if starving 2 million to death is he? He'san absolute shit, almost certainly prolonging things to save his own hide. But others are also prolonging this. Hamas for example.
I say this with a heavy heart but Sultana is correct and Starmer is complicit in genocide and there is a dock at the Hague waiting for him if he doesn't act.
With a Reform government now distinctly possible, PBers of all stripes may find themselves regretting “at will” proscription under terror laws, and the criminalisation of protesting about it.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
Police should be going after shoplifters.
Of course they should, but they are also required to keep law and order
The appeal against the prescribing of PA is in the courts and a legal response will be forthcomng
However, nearly 900 people trying to overwhelm the law and the police is simply not correct irrespective of who they were
Once we become a nation where large groups of people, for whatever cause, can successfully overwhelm the police, courts and the law we are in a very dangerous place
What if the police forces become Nigel's personal Stasi?
Simple question - do you support trying to overwhelm the police, courts, and the law in this country by any group of people to any law you disagree with ?
Do you support the right to protest? Because it sounds like you don’t.
What a silly comment
Of course I support the right to protest, but to deliberately defy the law to overwhelm the police and the courts is mob rule and dangerous
And maybe answer my question
You do know this is currently in front of the courts don't you
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
How about PA engaging in terrorism, like the terrorist attack on RAF Brize Norton?
Were the Greenham Common protestors "Terrorists"?
No. But they didn't damage equipment other than fences, did they? Or do I miss remember?
No. I was at uni with some GC women and they didn't go near the missile bunkers, no doubt because they'd have been shot. The fence was around the airfield as a whole - which was absolutely enormous as I recall from visits (for air displays!).
Given the response from the US Military when the Red Army Faction tried an actual attack on a nuclear base, that was a wise decision.
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
How about PA engaging in terrorism, like the terrorist attack on RAF Brize Norton?
Were the Greenham Common protestors "Terrorists"?
What Greenham Common protests occurred after the passing of the Terrorism Act 2000?
Tony Blair changed the law. What PA did under Tony Blair's law is terrorism, even if it wasn't before 2000.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
Police should be going after shoplifters.
Of course they should, but they are also required to keep law and order
The appeal against the prescribing of PA is in the courts and a legal response will be forthcomng
However, nearly 900 people trying to overwhelm the law and the police is simply not correct irrespective of who they were
Once we become a nation where large groups of people, for whatever cause, can successfully overwhelm the police, courts and the law we are in a very dangerous place
What if the police forces become Nigel's personal Stasi?
Simple question - do you support trying to overwhelm the police, courts, and the law in this country by any group of people to any law you disagree with ?
No, but if the Government have lost control of the Court system that is not the fault of old ladies.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
Police should be going after shoplifters.
Of course they should, but they are also required to keep law and order
The appeal against the prescribing of PA is in the courts and a legal response will be forthcomng
However, nearly 900 people trying to overwhelm the law and the police is simply not correct irrespective of who they were
Once we become a nation where large groups of people, for whatever cause, can successfully overwhelm the police, courts and the law we are in a very dangerous place
What if the police forces become Nigel's personal Stasi?
Simple question - do you support trying to overwhelm the police, courts, and the law in this country by any group of people to any law you disagree with ?
Do you support the right to protest? Because it sounds like you don’t.
What a silly comment
Of course I support the right to protest, but to deliberately defy the law to overwhelm the police and the courts is mob rule and dangerous
And maybe answer my question
You do know this is currently in front of the courts don't you
The law is an ass. It seems perfectly reasonable and conscionable to defy it.
The government dug themselves a deep hole over PA and now can’t backtrack so we have the ridiculous situation of hundreds of arrests for holding up a placard . A complete waste of police time .
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
How about PA engaging in terrorism, like the terrorist attack on RAF Brize Norton?
They should be prosecuted for criminal damage and governments can’t just proscribe groups as terrorists whenever they feel like it . They need to show us the evidence .
It's not that simple, is it? If the evidence is intelligence based and might endanger agents or operations. Or put a trial in jeopardy.
Well they certainly shouldn't be charging people as terrorists for protesting the proscribtion of a group for which they won't reveal why they've prescribed them.
I actually think they were on firmer ground with the plane thing.
The being charged as terrorists is ridiculous, I'll agree with that. A public order offence is more fitting.
There were 890 people arrested at a demonstration against the ban on the group Palestine Action in London on Saturday, the Metropolitan Police say.
The majority of the arrests were for supporting a proscribed group under the Terrorism Act, while police said 17 were also arrested for assaults on police officers "after the protest turned violent".
I think there is some talk of the accused refusing the bail conditions and therefore clogging up remand with thousands of pensioners.
The excuse Government ministers are now giving for the arrests that there is something that they are unable to disclose to us something that makes supporting Palestine Action a genuinely awful terrorist activity. Now, there might be something some members of the core group have planned to do, like killing a soldier or burning a synagogue, but how the hell are these protestors supposed to know that?
There are going to be loads of pensioners coming up in front of a judge who - for the first time - finally find out the nature of the group they are supporting as the CPS/Crown Office makes a case behind closed doors. Surely there is something for the defence there? Or worse - ministers have simply made this up and there is no real underlying reason for it, and they are just trying to scare people into not protesting with these vague allusions.
I don't actually get what they are protesting about. It's not Palestine/Gaza per se, because you can protest about that just fine, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Is it free speech? I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly. Is it government overstepping the mark? I can understand if people don't trust the government. The Southport case had huge issues with that. I also sense that even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care, just as many reformers are in love with Connolly.
The perception is the government is using the Terrorism Act to suppress peaceful protest for Gaza. There is nothing special about Palestine Action themselves - there are n+1 pro-Palestine action groups in the UK, so the whole point is to protest the gross mischaracterisation of peaceful protest as terrorism.
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
To say that the government is suppressing peaceful protest on Gaza is just weird. Is that what it's about? Connolly did a stupid thing and has been punished. My point was that some free speech means different things. Is what she posted fine and dandy? No, of course not. But neither are millions of other tweets that don't get persued by the police.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
I do not know why the government prescribed PA, but I assume it was intelligence led and decided at the highest levels
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
Police should be going after shoplifters.
Of course they should, but they are also required to keep law and order
The appeal against the prescribing of PA is in the courts and a legal response will be forthcomng
However, nearly 900 people trying to overwhelm the law and the police is simply not correct irrespective of who they were
Once we become a nation where large groups of people, for whatever cause, can successfully overwhelm the police, courts and the law we are in a very dangerous place
What if the police forces become Nigel's personal Stasi?
If there is a reason that this group have been proscribed then let us know what it is. Their dark hints of sinister activity doesn't cut it.
I will say it again
It is before the courts now and a decision will be handed down shortly
With a Reform government now distinctly possible, PBers of all stripes may find themselves regretting “at will” proscription under terror laws, and the criminalisation of protesting about it.
Maybe Tony Blair and Labour voters should have considered that before they changed the law then?
I oppose Tony Blair's illiberal laws and want them repealing.
Comments
Kyle will first travel to Washington as part of the preparations for Donald Trump’s state visit to the UK and has then lined up a meeting in Beijing with the Chinese minister of commerce, Wang Wentao, at the first gathering of the UK China joint economic and trade commission (Jetco) for seven years.
Jetco summits were paused by Boris Johnson in response to Beijing’s crackdown on pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong in 2019, with Covid stalling dialogue in subsequent years.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/07/uk-business-secretary-peter-kyle-visit-beijing
However there are some differences between Reform voters and the median voter 'According to the latest British Social Attitudes survey, 81% of those who voted Reform last year believe that migrants have undermined rather than enriched the country's culture. Equally 73% feel that migrants have been bad for the country's economy. These figures are very different from those among voters in general, just 31% of whom believe that migration has undermined Britain's culture, and only 32% feel it has been bad for the economy.
Meanwhile, 53% of Reform voters believe that attempts to give equal opportunities for lesbians, gay men and bisexuals have "gone too far". Some 49% say the same of equal opportunities for black and Asian people, while 71% express that view in the case of transgender people. The equivalent figures among the general public are 33%, 18% and 50% respectively.
Only 33% of Reform voters believe that climate change is being caused mainly by human activity, far fewer than the 54% figure among the public in general. As many as 25% state that the climate is largely changing as a result of natural processes, a view shared by just 8% of all voters. Reform voters are less supportive than other voters of virtually any measure designed to address climate change.Opposition to immigration, equal opportunities policies, and climate change measures feature prominently in Reform's campaigning – which often cites spending on these issues as alleged examples of government waste. Indeed, Reform voters are noticeably less keen on government spending too. Only one in four (25%) believe taxes should be increased in order to spend more on "health, education and social benefits", much lower than the 46% of all voters who take that view.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy853rj2kzo
“ I bet none of them cared a fig for Connolly... even if it does come out that P A were planning a 'genuine' act a lot of this mob wouldn't care”
The Connolly case is a silly comparison. She incited people to kill - read the tweet - something that has been an offence in E&W for centuries. The PA protestors are wearing t-shirts with the name of a group that the government has banned but has refused to explain why.
As Reform's county councillors are gradually finding, that's mostly rubbish, but it's easy to see why it's a popular concept.
Labour (Yvette Cooper, who ought to have been sacked rather than promoted), have brought the anti-terror laws into disrepute.
In high use areas like ITU we had reusable respirators but there were not that many of them. They also often had a poor fit, particularly if not clean shaven, and often also fitted some facial anatomy poorly, particularly smaller Filipino noses. Decontaminating it was tricky too and required air-lock like antechambers to infected zones, which greatly limited capacity (hence the need to convert operating theatres and their recovery areas). Wards simply didn't have the space.
Worth noting that many of the dodgy PPE contracts were not in the immediate crisis of spring 2020, but 6 or even 12 months later. For these there was ample time to ensure if the PPE was fit for service, or even available to the middlemen who were handing out the contracts. Fortunes were made and like the business continuity loans I am sure that there was a lot of dodgy stuff going on that we are now paying off as debt and interest.
It was a one off crisis and in a fast moving situation errors will be made, but even if scrutiny was not done at the time it should be done now.
Frankly I think anyone deliberately getting arrested for supporting PA is guilty of wasting police time.
I'm sure we are all curious as to government reasons. It must come out at some point. But if people are required not to know facts in criminal trials as it may endanger the process then we must wait, no matter how frustrating it is.
You must get very shitty about MattW’s obsession with accessible footpaths.
All other countries are run by little girls!"
What you're effectively arguing for is government-approved peaceful protest. You must understand the implications of that.
(Not that I have much idea as to the truth of claims of genocide in Gaza).
And I will expect PBers (including MaxPB and top pal malcolmg) if I am then arrested for protesting the...
Yesterday the police arrested an 81 year old woman with Parkinsons who could barely walk as a Terrorist.
It just makes the law absurd and police look cruel. I don't think the police were too happy about it either.
To some the actions of PA have already crossed the threshold for terrorism but I sense that is not a majority view on pb. The government claims there is something that cannot be told about why they have been prosrcribed. And until that is revealed we are in limbo.
I do not accept that protesting about Gaza has been restricted. And I do think that these people deliberately getting arrested are being stupid, but again I sense I am in a minority on pb.
I understand it is being challenged in the courts which is the right place to take the argument to
For nearly 900 people to deliberately defy the ban in an attempt to overwhelm the police and courts is a very serious thing to do, and the police have no choice to arrest them and place them before the law as anything else leads to anarchy
If the government has evidence to prove PA is a terrorist group they should produce it.
There are groups engaging in peaceful protest, PA is not one of them.
If you want to liberalise the law, that would be reasonable, but turning a blind eye to the actions of PA is not.
Hamas not withstanding, ignoring genocide is pretty much a dereliction of duty if nothing more.
In fact, I posted some weeks ago that the RAF intruders ought to have been shot at.
However I also said that the proscription was stupid, and as we see it is bringing the government, the police, and anti-terror law into disrepute.
They ought to put up or, as it were, shut up.
The appeal against the prescribing of PA is in the courts and a legal response will be forthcomng
However, nearly 900 people trying to overwhelm the law and the police is simply not correct irrespective of who they were
Once we become a nation where large groups of people, for whatever cause, can successfully overwhelm the police, courts and the law we are in a very dangerous place
"We could proscribe PA!"
"Legally?"
"Yes"
"Then let's do it!"
Instead of:
"We could proscribe PA!"
"Legally?"
"Yes"
"How will they respond?"
"Well, they won't just drift away into the woodwork. They might try to embarrass us in some way, and in so doing get a load of publicity that will be bad for us..."
One of my major criticisms of all UK governments is that they do things without considering of indirect consequences of their actions.
That’s the issue.
Because it sounds like you don’t.
I'm not sure that stemming the boats will be enough to put Farage back in his box; my hunch is that he will just change the subject again. But anyone who doesn't want a bunch of fruitcakes stomping in to government surely has to wish her the very best of British.
I have no way of evaluating his message from Dr Angus Dalgliesh that vaccines may have been responsible for the Royal family's health issues. AI tells me Dr Dalgliesh is indeed an eminent oncologist, so that at least is true.
I was grateful for the vaccine. I had my two Astra Zeneca and made the decision to stop there. I have never regretted my decision to take the vaccine, or to stop taking them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-NOqcasUFY
I actually think they were on firmer ground with the plane thing.
Of course I support the right to protest, but to deliberately defy the law to overwhelm the police and the courts is mob rule and dangerous
And maybe answer my question
You do know this is currently in front of the courts don't you
Tony Blair changed the law. What PA did under Tony Blair's law is terrorism, even if it wasn't before 2000.
It is before the courts now and a decision will be handed down shortly
Lets see what the court decides
I oppose Tony Blair's illiberal laws and want them repealing.
The issue is the law, not its application.