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Oh, Angie, don’t you weep – politicalbetting.com

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  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,958
    Dopermean said:

    kinabalu said:

    WTF as Lammy done to be demoted? There's a story there for Sunday's papers surely

    Is he the sacrificial Lammy?

    He'll certainly be displeased, I'd have thought.
    Seems a strange decision, Lammy having sacrificed his personal esteem to ingratiate himself with Vance and Cooper having sacrificed her vaguely left-wing credentials as an increasingly authoritarian Home sec.
    Foreign sec is currently a really, really hard job: dealing with Trump is horrible, finding an appropriate line to take in Israel is almost impossible, dealing with China is massively challenging. There is an ongoing war in Ukraine we have a constant battle in keeping allies onside for. There are a dozen other foreign governments which while not openly hostile are constantly on the lookout to get one over on the Brits.
    Lammy was utterly awful for the first few months of his tenure (Chagos and its aftermath sticks in the memory). But to his credit he's managed the big challenges this year, particularly wrt Trump. Best of luck to Cooper.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,976
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sir Keir might have played a blinder with the Lammy and Mahmood moves. The government can now be as draconian as it likes with immigrants, while blunting charges from the Left that it's slavishly following Reform's racist agenda. Perhaps Sir Keir is a better 9D chess player than we thought.

    He's seizing the day. Turning this whole thing into something that looks like the start of something rather than the end. You have to be impressed by the resilience and quick thinking.
    Not quite sure why I should be impressed that SKS as Prime Minister can carry out (checks notes) some cabinet appointments? All his predecessors seem to have managed it.
    But this one although done in reaction to a sudden crisis has a genuine 'renewal' feel about it. Perhaps despite his image as Mr Ultra Careful Cautious he is in fact one of those people who works best when the heat is on and time is of the essence.
    I see no “renewal” - it’s the same faces in a different order?

    We may bring our own prejudices to this though.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,976

    Farage still didn't have anything of note to say other than ya boo, unions jacks are great, illegal immigrants bad, here is Mad Nad. Given that was the extent of it, I doubt he is bothered that Labour troubles are dominating the headlines. Otherwise people might ask some awkward questions about policy and stuff.

    Exactly. Pains me to say I think he’s probably getting off lightly. Again.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,985
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sir Keir might have played a blinder with the Lammy and Mahmood moves. The government can now be as draconian as it likes with immigrants, while blunting charges from the Left that it's slavishly following Reform's racist agenda. Perhaps Sir Keir is a better 9D chess player than we thought.

    He's seizing the day. Turning this whole thing into something that looks like the start of something rather than the end. You have to be impressed by the resilience and quick thinking.
    Not quite sure why I should be impressed that SKS as Prime Minister can carry out (checks notes) some cabinet appointments? All his predecessors seem to have managed it.
    But this one although done in reaction to a sudden crisis has a genuine 'renewal' feel about it. Perhaps despite his image as Mr Ultra Careful Cautious he is in fact one of those people who works best when the heat is on and time is of the essence.
    And if it's true he sacked David Lammy then he gets my personal Victor Lodorum

    s://x.com/DavidLammy/status/1812553731499499844?lang=en-GB
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,976
    McFadden to DWP. Where is Leicester Liz headed?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,482

    isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    Is it me or is Farage with his complicated housing arrangements strangely quiet?

    What’s complicated about his housing arrangements? Genuine question
    His house in Clapton isn’t owned by him?
    So he didn't need (legally) to pay the full rate of stamp duty.

    Avoidance rather than accidental evasion.
    Do we know if Sam Tarry owns another property? Rayner could have done the same with the Hove property if he doesn't.

    Of course, buying a property and sticking it in someone else's name is risky...
    Enjoy your win.

    Do you Tories never give up?

    I am reminded of two old boys falling out in the Splottlands in the 1980s. They were both at least in their late seventies and the one had knocked the other to the floor. The upright old fellow had to balance himself using the bar before he could start booting his opponent in the head.
    You started it by trying to bring Farage down with Ange!
    No I didn't. You invaded Poland.

    My whataboutery is as relevant as yours. Did Farage make an unusual ( legal) arrangement to avoid paying full stamp duty or not?
    Couldn’t care less either way.
  • Should we extend a bit a sympathy to Nigel here, what with his conference being overshadowed? I remember when Gordon made some political move or other* during the Tory conference and it was seen as flouting convention and just not done.

    * It was withdrawing British troops from Iraq, which I'd completely forgotten about. Thanks AI!

    That was a crazy time, a Labour MP wrote an article saying

    'Shortly there will be an election, in which Labour will increase its majority'

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2007/09/labour-majority-increase
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,217
    Dopermean said:

    kinabalu said:

    WTF as Lammy done to be demoted? There's a story there for Sunday's papers surely

    Is he the sacrificial Lammy?

    He'll certainly be displeased, I'd have thought.
    Seems a strange decision, Lammy having sacrificed his personal esteem to ingratiate himself with Vance and Cooper having sacrificed her vaguely left-wing credentials as an increasingly authoritarian Home sec.
    I am a bit surprised. I hated the sucking up to Vance but I assume he was told to do it. It mimics the public relationship of their respective bosses after all.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sir Keir might have played a blinder with the Lammy and Mahmood moves. The government can now be as draconian as it likes with immigrants, while blunting charges from the Left that it's slavishly following Reform's racist agenda. Perhaps Sir Keir is a better 9D chess player than we thought.

    He's seizing the day. Turning this whole thing into something that looks like the start of something rather than the end. You have to be impressed by the resilience and quick thinking.
    Not quite sure why I should be impressed that SKS as Prime Minister can carry out (checks notes) some cabinet appointments? All his predecessors seem to have managed it.
    But this one although done in reaction to a sudden crisis has a genuine 'renewal' feel about it. Perhaps despite his image as Mr Ultra Careful Cautious he is in fact one of those people who works best when the heat is on and time is of the essence.
    It's got bodybuilder flex written all over it.. those muscles!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,810
    Cookie said:

    Dopermean said:

    kinabalu said:

    WTF as Lammy done to be demoted? There's a story there for Sunday's papers surely

    Is he the sacrificial Lammy?

    He'll certainly be displeased, I'd have thought.
    Seems a strange decision, Lammy having sacrificed his personal esteem to ingratiate himself with Vance and Cooper having sacrificed her vaguely left-wing credentials as an increasingly authoritarian Home sec.
    Foreign sec is currently a really, really hard job: dealing with Trump is horrible, finding an appropriate line to take in Israel is almost impossible, dealing with China is massively challenging. There is an ongoing war in Ukraine we have a constant battle in keeping allies onside for. There are a dozen other foreign governments which while not openly hostile are constantly on the lookout to get one over on the Brits.
    Lammy was utterly awful for the first few months of his tenure (Chagos and its aftermath sticks in the memory). But to his credit he's managed the big challenges this year, particularly wrt Trump. Best of luck to Cooper.
    Moving Lammy seems to make little sense. If there’s one key office where continuity is useful, then the FS is that job.

    What’s Yvette going to do with Rubio and Vance, Ukraine, Israel, and whatever next week’s foreign crisis happens to be?

    I can imagine Lammy calling his new friend Vance, and trying to explain that he’s doing a new job now because his colleague screwed up their taxes on a property purchase. Ministers moving between departments almost never happens in the US.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,336
    "Survation.
    @Survation

    NEW: Westminster Voting Intention

    RFM 30 (+3)
    LAB 24 (-)
    CON 19 (-1)
    LD 11 (-2)
    GRN 8 (-)
    OTH 6 (-2)

    F/w 28th August- 2nd September 2025. Changes vs 2nd June."

    https://x.com/Survation/status/1963988192568242672
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,941

    Should we extend a bit a sympathy to Nigel here, what with his conference being overshadowed? I remember when Gordon made some political move or other* during the Tory conference and it was seen as flouting convention and just not done.

    * It was withdrawing British troops from Iraq, which I'd completely forgotten about. Thanks AI!

    That was his choice, though, wasn't it? This is just events eventuating.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,355
    edited September 5

    McFadden to DWP. Where is Leicester Liz headed?

    Telegraph says science. I was talking to somebody in tech the other day and had dealings with Kyle, let's just say they wasn't impressed, said Kyle gibbering on about apply AI everything was basically he go to answer.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,844
    Andy_JS said:

    "Survation.
    @Survation

    NEW: Westminster Voting Intention

    RFM 30 (+3)
    LAB 24 (-)
    CON 19 (-1)
    LD 11 (-2)
    GRN 8 (-)
    OTH 6 (-2)

    F/w 28th August- 2nd September 2025. Changes vs 2nd June."

    https://x.com/Survation/status/1963988192568242672

    I don’t think we talk enough about the room for a rapid Tory recovery with the right leader.

    Not saying it’s the most likely future, but it’s very far from impossible.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,864
    Meanwhile, the US job numbers are SO bad, DementiaDon would rather talk about Epstein...
  • biggles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Survation.
    @Survation

    NEW: Westminster Voting Intention

    RFM 30 (+3)
    LAB 24 (-)
    CON 19 (-1)
    LD 11 (-2)
    GRN 8 (-)
    OTH 6 (-2)

    F/w 28th August- 2nd September 2025. Changes vs 2nd June."

    https://x.com/Survation/status/1963988192568242672

    I don’t think we talk enough about the room for a rapid Tory recovery with the right leader.

    Not saying it’s the most likely future, but it’s very far from impossible.
    They would need a hell of a rebrand, maybe try and get the same people who managed to get Zuckerberg to appear vaguely human?
  • AnneJGP said:

    Should we extend a bit a sympathy to Nigel here, what with his conference being overshadowed? I remember when Gordon made some political move or other* during the Tory conference and it was seen as flouting convention and just not done.

    * It was withdrawing British troops from Iraq, which I'd completely forgotten about. Thanks AI!

    That was his choice, though, wasn't it? This is just events eventuating.
    It's political life, and it's often less than fair.

    The rain it raineth on the just
    And also on the unjust fella;
    But chiefly on the just, because
    The unjust hath the just’s umbrella
    .
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,337
    edited September 5

    Should we extend a bit a sympathy to Nigel here, what with his conference being overshadowed? I remember when Gordon made some political move or other* during the Tory conference and it was seen as flouting convention and just not done.

    * It was withdrawing British troops from Iraq, which I'd completely forgotten about. Thanks AI!

    That was a crazy time, a Labour MP wrote an article saying

    'Shortly there will be an election, in which Labour will increase its majority'

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2007/09/labour-majority-increase
    Sounds interesting. It must have passed me by or has never been mentioned before, but I'll check it out.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,124

    kjh said:

    I've just arrived in my prison cell.

    Malmaison, Oxford?
    La Prison, Beziers
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,976
    Steve Reed to housing.

    Who?
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,632
    Dopermean said:

    Sister Bliss can sleep soundly!
    What is Andrea Jenkyns thinking? Surely Eurovision can't be a Reform thing?

    Just like Trump and the Village People there's a weird, almost campness about the whole thing.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,482

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sir Keir might have played a blinder with the Lammy and Mahmood moves. The government can now be as draconian as it likes with immigrants, while blunting charges from the Left that it's slavishly following Reform's racist agenda. Perhaps Sir Keir is a better 9D chess player than we thought.

    He's seizing the day. Turning this whole thing into something that looks like the start of something rather than the end. You have to be impressed by the resilience and quick thinking.
    Not quite sure why I should be impressed that SKS as Prime Minister can carry out (checks notes) some cabinet appointments? All his predecessors seem to have managed it.
    But this one although done in reaction to a sudden crisis has a genuine 'renewal' feel about it. Perhaps despite his image as Mr Ultra Careful Cautious he is in fact one of those people who works best when the heat is on and time is of the essence.
    It's got bodybuilder flex written all over it.. those muscles!
    Uncanny. I was just thinking to myself that the word most people would use to describe this move by Sir Keir would be ‘muscular’
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,953

    McFadden to DWP. Where is Leicester Liz headed?

    After the fiasco over disability benefit, probably down the plughole.
  • Pat McFadden will take over the Department for Work and Pensions Secretary as part of a new role, according to the BBC.

    He is said to be heading up a new 'super ministry' department incorporating the skills brief which currently sits with the Department for Education with the overall task of driving economic growth.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,072
    Cookie said:

    Dopermean said:

    kinabalu said:

    WTF as Lammy done to be demoted? There's a story there for Sunday's papers surely

    Is he the sacrificial Lammy?

    He'll certainly be displeased, I'd have thought.
    Seems a strange decision, Lammy having sacrificed his personal esteem to ingratiate himself with Vance and Cooper having sacrificed her vaguely left-wing credentials as an increasingly authoritarian Home sec.
    Foreign sec is currently a really, really hard job: dealing with Trump is horrible, finding an appropriate line to take in Israel is almost impossible, dealing with China is massively challenging. There is an ongoing war in Ukraine we have a constant battle in keeping allies onside for. There are a dozen other foreign governments which while not openly hostile are constantly on the lookout to get one over on the Brits.
    Lammy was utterly awful for the first few months of his tenure (Chagos and its aftermath sticks in the memory). But to his credit he's managed the big challenges this year, particularly wrt Trump. Best of luck to Cooper.
    It's hard, but not as tough as Home Sec. Still the choice great office of state I think.

    In terms of toughness

    Home Sec -> Chancellor -> Foreign Sec -> DPM

    "Rank"

    Chancellor -> Foreign Sec -> Home Sec -> DPM

    US system ranks the DPM broad equiv VP much higher: VP > Sec of State > SoS Treasury > Sec of Homeland Security.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,072

    Steve Reed to housing.

    Who?

    SoS for Housing, Communities & Local Gov't (Our Ang's old job/Pennycook's boss) or is this actual housing (Pennycook's job) ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,217

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sir Keir might have played a blinder with the Lammy and Mahmood moves. The government can now be as draconian as it likes with immigrants, while blunting charges from the Left that it's slavishly following Reform's racist agenda. Perhaps Sir Keir is a better 9D chess player than we thought.

    He's seizing the day. Turning this whole thing into something that looks like the start of something rather than the end. You have to be impressed by the resilience and quick thinking.
    Not quite sure why I should be impressed that SKS as Prime Minister can carry out (checks notes) some cabinet appointments? All his predecessors seem to have managed it.
    But this one although done in reaction to a sudden crisis has a genuine 'renewal' feel about it. Perhaps despite his image as Mr Ultra Careful Cautious he is in fact one of those people who works best when the heat is on and time is of the essence.
    I see no “renewal” - it’s the same faces in a different order?

    We may bring our own prejudices to this though.
    Before:

    Cooper Home Secretary
    Lammy Foreign Secretary
    Mahmood Justice

    After:

    Cooper Foreign Secretary
    Lammy Justice and Deputy PM
    Mahmood Home Secretary

    The After looks fresh to me. The people are the same but the positions are very different. Mahmood in particular as HS. Cooper was probably fed up to the back teeth of it - the 'people of Epping' etc etc - and it was starting to show. Mahmood strikes me as a potentially great appointment. And I say that as someone who has always quite rated Yvette.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,976
    Pulpstar said:

    Steve Reed to housing.

    Who?

    SoS for Housing, Communities & Local Gov't (Our Ang's old job/Pennycook's boss) or is this actual housing (Pennycook's job) ?
    Ange’s old job, I believe.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,236
    On the marked register, my recollection is it would tell you who had voted, not of course for whom they had voted.

    It enabled a concentration of resources targeting those who always voted and new voters and leaving those who never voted or only voted at GE. It was a useful piece of information particularly at low turnout local contests.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,976
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sir Keir might have played a blinder with the Lammy and Mahmood moves. The government can now be as draconian as it likes with immigrants, while blunting charges from the Left that it's slavishly following Reform's racist agenda. Perhaps Sir Keir is a better 9D chess player than we thought.

    He's seizing the day. Turning this whole thing into something that looks like the start of something rather than the end. You have to be impressed by the resilience and quick thinking.
    Not quite sure why I should be impressed that SKS as Prime Minister can carry out (checks notes) some cabinet appointments? All his predecessors seem to have managed it.
    But this one although done in reaction to a sudden crisis has a genuine 'renewal' feel about it. Perhaps despite his image as Mr Ultra Careful Cautious he is in fact one of those people who works best when the heat is on and time is of the essence.
    I see no “renewal” - it’s the same faces in a different order?

    We may bring our own prejudices to this though.
    Before:

    Cooper Home Secretary
    Lammy Foreign Secretary
    Mahmood Justice

    After:

    Cooper Foreign Secretary
    Lammy Justice and Deputy PM
    Mahmood Home Secretary

    The After looks fresh to me. The people are the same but the positions are very different. Mahmood in particular as HS. Cooper was probably fed up to the back teeth of it - the 'people of Epping' etc etc - and it was starting to show. Mahmood strikes me as a potentially great appointment. And I say that as someone who has always quite rated Yvette.
    I am reminded of the “it’s the same picture” meme, when I see this.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,393
    biggles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Survation.
    @Survation

    NEW: Westminster Voting Intention

    RFM 30 (+3)
    LAB 24 (-)
    CON 19 (-1)
    LD 11 (-2)
    GRN 8 (-)
    OTH 6 (-2)

    F/w 28th August- 2nd September 2025. Changes vs 2nd June."

    https://x.com/Survation/status/1963988192568242672

    I don’t think we talk enough about the room for a rapid Tory recovery with the right leader.

    Not saying it’s the most likely future, but it’s very far from impossible.
    For a recovery to be possible a few things need to be in place:

    Availablilty and appointment of a suitable person
    Tory defectors to be able to coalesce around a new leadership
    The Tory party to be able to project itself as standing for Conservatism, significantly superior to alternatives.

    The first looks hard. There are few if any names.
    The second looks impossible, the gulf between Tories who have defected to Reform and Tories who have defected to LD/Lab/Not voting/DK is immense.
    The third looks even harder. No-one at all is thinking and opining in public about what conservatism is in our time.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,296
    edited September 5
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/25445024.ian-murray-releases-statement-sacked-scottish-secretary/

    Mr M - some question about him being a happy bunny.

    GRaun feed also notes his Twitter post crediting himself with "saving Edinburgh university’s “exascale” super computer" - which had been [edit], of course, cut by SKS.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,864
    @hzeffman

    EXCL: Peter Kyle is becoming the new business secretary, a position previously held by Jonathan Reynolds.

    Liz Kendall is likely to replace him as science secretary.

    Lisa Nandy will remain culture secretary despite months of briefing against her
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,236
    Cookie said:

    Dopermean said:

    kinabalu said:

    WTF as Lammy done to be demoted? There's a story there for Sunday's papers surely

    Is he the sacrificial Lammy?

    He'll certainly be displeased, I'd have thought.
    Seems a strange decision, Lammy having sacrificed his personal esteem to ingratiate himself with Vance and Cooper having sacrificed her vaguely left-wing credentials as an increasingly authoritarian Home sec.
    Foreign sec is currently a really, really hard job: dealing with Trump is horrible, finding an appropriate line to take in Israel is almost impossible, dealing with China is massively challenging. There is an ongoing war in Ukraine we have a constant battle in keeping allies onside for. There are a dozen other foreign governments which while not openly hostile are constantly on the lookout to get one over on the Brits.
    Lammy was utterly awful for the first few months of his tenure (Chagos and its aftermath sticks in the memory). But to his credit he's managed the big challenges this year, particularly wrt Trump. Best of luck to Cooper.
    Not for the first time, I don't wholly agree.

    The Prime Minister leads foreign policy - the FS has a secondary role these days. It's Starmer who goes to the summits and talks to the likes of Trump, Macron and Xi while the FS deals with officials and Cabinet-level figures behind the scenes. In an increasingly Presidential era, that's a lesser role than it used to be.

    Many PMs like getting into the nitty gritty of foreign policy as an antidote to the humdrum of domestic policy. The Chancellor and Home Secretary have more latitude as a result but are more clearly in the firing line when it all goes wrong.
  • Scott_xP said:

    @hzeffman

    EXCL: Peter Kyle is becoming the new business secretary, a position previously held by Jonathan Reynolds.

    Liz Kendall is likely to replace him as science secretary.

    Lisa Nandy will remain culture secretary despite months of briefing against her

    Another business secretary clueless about business.
  • OT just had two emergency alert tests. First silent, second with noise.

    That should be on Sunday at 3pm.

    https://educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2025/09/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-emergency-alerts-test-on-7-september/
    Just had a third one, again with noise. When the balloon goes up and the chips are down, I'll be first into the air raid shelter.
    Fourth test alert of the day, with noise.
  • No sign of any fresh blood, all just deck chair shuffling at the moment.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,236
    biggles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Survation.
    @Survation

    NEW: Westminster Voting Intention

    RFM 30 (+3)
    LAB 24 (-)
    CON 19 (-1)
    LD 11 (-2)
    GRN 8 (-)
    OTH 6 (-2)

    F/w 28th August- 2nd September 2025. Changes vs 2nd June."

    https://x.com/Survation/status/1963988192568242672

    I don’t think we talk enough about the room for a rapid Tory recovery with the right leader.

    Not saying it’s the most likely future, but it’s very far from impossible.
    Yes, well, as the saying goes I'll have some of what you're smoking.

    Reform blocks a Conservative recovery - where Farage & Co to implode and Advance be unable to pick up the pieces, you might see the Conservatives move forward but it needs a black swan event of that level.

    With yet another poll showing Reform at or above 30%, Farage is justifiably in high spirits at the start of his Conference. I'm wating for "go back to your constituencies and prepare to be disappointed" as his strapline but at this stage the road to power looks wide open with the opposition groups unable or unwilling to mount a coherent challenge.

    As we know, however, a week is a long time in politics and a year an eternity.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,217

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sir Keir might have played a blinder with the Lammy and Mahmood moves. The government can now be as draconian as it likes with immigrants, while blunting charges from the Left that it's slavishly following Reform's racist agenda. Perhaps Sir Keir is a better 9D chess player than we thought.

    He's seizing the day. Turning this whole thing into something that looks like the start of something rather than the end. You have to be impressed by the resilience and quick thinking.
    Not quite sure why I should be impressed that SKS as Prime Minister can carry out (checks notes) some cabinet appointments? All his predecessors seem to have managed it.
    But this one although done in reaction to a sudden crisis has a genuine 'renewal' feel about it. Perhaps despite his image as Mr Ultra Careful Cautious he is in fact one of those people who works best when the heat is on and time is of the essence.
    I see no “renewal” - it’s the same faces in a different order?

    We may bring our own prejudices to this though.
    Before:

    Cooper Home Secretary
    Lammy Foreign Secretary
    Mahmood Justice

    After:

    Cooper Foreign Secretary
    Lammy Justice and Deputy PM
    Mahmood Home Secretary

    The After looks fresh to me. The people are the same but the positions are very different. Mahmood in particular as HS. Cooper was probably fed up to the back teeth of it - the 'people of Epping' etc etc - and it was starting to show. Mahmood strikes me as a potentially great appointment. And I say that as someone who has always quite rated Yvette.
    I am reminded of the “it’s the same picture” meme, when I see this.
    Yes, well you need an eye for it. Either I've got an eye for it and you haven't, or I'm seeing what isn't there. Both are possible and time will tell.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,065
    edited September 5
    Surprisingly big Cabinet reshuffle after Rayner resigned. Big hitters given big posts like Cooper to Foreign Secretary and Mahmood (rewarded after good work on prison reform and sentencing at Justice) to Home Secretary.

    Lammy becomes DPM and will be a popular figure with Labour members as Rayner was but he no longer holds a great Office of State leaving the Foreign Office to replace Mahmood at Justice. The reshuffle means all the holders of a Great Office of State in the Cabinet and the PM have Oxbridge degrees, something which has not been the case in any Labour government since the 1951 Attlee government. Starmer going on an intellectually more heavyweight Cabinet then to contrast with Reform, none of whose MPs have Oxbridge degrees and to a lesser extent the Tories, of whom the party leader Kemi Badenoch and Shadow Foreign Secretary Priti Patel are non Oxbridge

    Rayner was also the most senior Labour Cabinet Minister to have served in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet, so Starmer also seeking to put clear blue water with Your Party with none of his appointments today having served under Corbyn
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,355
    edited September 5
    HYUFD said:

    Surprisingly big Cabinet reshuffle after Rayner resigned. Big hitters given big posts like Cooper to Foreign Secretary and Mahmood (rewarded after good work on prison reform and sentencing at Justice) to Home Secretary.

    Lammy becomes DPM and will be a popular figure with Labour members as Rayner was but he no longer holds a great Office of State leaving the Foreign Office to replace Mahmood at Justice. The reshuffle means all the holders of a Great Office of State in the Cabinet and the PM have Oxbridge degrees, something which has not been the case in any Labour government before. Starmer going on an intellectually more heavyweight Cabinet then to contrast with Reform, none of whose MPs have Oxbridge degrees and to a lesser extent the Tories, of whom the party leader Kemi Badenoch and Shadow Foreign Secretary Priti Patel are non Oxbridge

    You really do seem to have this obsession about Oxbridge.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 909
    biggles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Survation.
    @Survation

    NEW: Westminster Voting Intention

    RFM 30 (+3)
    LAB 24 (-)
    CON 19 (-1)
    LD 11 (-2)
    GRN 8 (-)
    OTH 6 (-2)

    F/w 28th August- 2nd September 2025. Changes vs 2nd June."

    https://x.com/Survation/status/1963988192568242672

    I don’t think we talk enough about the room for a rapid Tory recovery with the right leader.

    Not saying it’s the most likely future, but it’s very far from impossible.
    I agree it's possible under the right leader, but I can't see who that might be, probably someone none of us has heard of yet. Badenoch is poor but the alternatives are not significantly better and probably even worse.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,958
    HYUFD said:

    Surprisingly big Cabinet reshuffle after Rayner resigned. Big hitters given big posts like Cooper to Foreign Secretary and Mahmood (rewarded after good work on prison reform and sentencing at Justice) to Home Secretary.

    Lammy becomes DPM and will be a popular figure with Labour members as Rayner was but he no longer holds a great Office of State leaving the Foreign Office to replace Mahmood at Justice. The reshuffle means all the holders of a Great Office of State in the Cabinet and the PM have Oxbridge degrees, something which has not been the case in any Labour government before. Starmer going on an intellectually more heavyweight Cabinet then to contrast with Reform, none of whose MPs have Oxbridge degrees and to a lesser extent the Tories, of whom the party leader Kemi Badenoch and Shadow Foreign Secretary Priti Patel are non Oxbridge

    It's not UNinteresting - but you seem a little obsessed with which universities people went to. Which is fine, but not a thing I think anyone bases their vote on.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,701
    stodge said:

    Cookie said:

    Dopermean said:

    kinabalu said:

    WTF as Lammy done to be demoted? There's a story there for Sunday's papers surely

    Is he the sacrificial Lammy?

    He'll certainly be displeased, I'd have thought.
    Seems a strange decision, Lammy having sacrificed his personal esteem to ingratiate himself with Vance and Cooper having sacrificed her vaguely left-wing credentials as an increasingly authoritarian Home sec.
    Foreign sec is currently a really, really hard job: dealing with Trump is horrible, finding an appropriate line to take in Israel is almost impossible, dealing with China is massively challenging. There is an ongoing war in Ukraine we have a constant battle in keeping allies onside for. There are a dozen other foreign governments which while not openly hostile are constantly on the lookout to get one over on the Brits.
    Lammy was utterly awful for the first few months of his tenure (Chagos and its aftermath sticks in the memory). But to his credit he's managed the big challenges this year, particularly wrt Trump. Best of luck to Cooper.
    Not for the first time, I don't wholly agree.

    The Prime Minister leads foreign policy - the FS has a secondary role these days. It's Starmer who goes to the summits and talks to the likes of Trump, Macron and Xi while the FS deals with officials and Cabinet-level figures behind the scenes. In an increasingly Presidential era, that's a lesser role than it used to be.

    Many PMs like getting into the nitty gritty of foreign policy as an antidote to the humdrum of domestic policy. The Chancellor and Home Secretary have more latitude as a result but are more clearly in the firing line when it all goes wrong.
    These days the job only works if PM and CX do job splitting. Blair let Brown do domestic policy whilst he did foreign stuff. Ditto Cameron and Osborne. If Starmer lets Reeves do the domestic stuff while he prances around Meeting Important People then that will also work. At least from the POV of government: I don't know if it's good for *us*
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,065
    algarkirk said:

    biggles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Survation.
    @Survation

    NEW: Westminster Voting Intention

    RFM 30 (+3)
    LAB 24 (-)
    CON 19 (-1)
    LD 11 (-2)
    GRN 8 (-)
    OTH 6 (-2)

    F/w 28th August- 2nd September 2025. Changes vs 2nd June."

    https://x.com/Survation/status/1963988192568242672

    I don’t think we talk enough about the room for a rapid Tory recovery with the right leader.

    Not saying it’s the most likely future, but it’s very far from impossible.
    For a recovery to be possible a few things need to be in place:

    Availablilty and appointment of a suitable person
    Tory defectors to be able to coalesce around a new leadership
    The Tory party to be able to project itself as standing for Conservatism, significantly superior to alternatives.

    The first looks hard. There are few if any names.
    The second looks impossible, the gulf between Tories who have defected to Reform and Tories who have defected to LD/Lab/Not voting/DK is immense.
    The third looks even harder. No-one at all is thinking and opining in public about what conservatism is in our time.
    Cleverly could potentially at least hold the 2024 Sunak vote but it would need Farage to lose the next general election for the Tories to have a chance to clearly overtake Reform again
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,976
    stodge said:

    Cookie said:

    Dopermean said:

    kinabalu said:

    WTF as Lammy done to be demoted? There's a story there for Sunday's papers surely

    Is he the sacrificial Lammy?

    He'll certainly be displeased, I'd have thought.
    Seems a strange decision, Lammy having sacrificed his personal esteem to ingratiate himself with Vance and Cooper having sacrificed her vaguely left-wing credentials as an increasingly authoritarian Home sec.
    Foreign sec is currently a really, really hard job: dealing with Trump is horrible, finding an appropriate line to take in Israel is almost impossible, dealing with China is massively challenging. There is an ongoing war in Ukraine we have a constant battle in keeping allies onside for. There are a dozen other foreign governments which while not openly hostile are constantly on the lookout to get one over on the Brits.
    Lammy was utterly awful for the first few months of his tenure (Chagos and its aftermath sticks in the memory). But to his credit he's managed the big challenges this year, particularly wrt Trump. Best of luck to Cooper.
    Not for the first time, I don't wholly agree.

    The Prime Minister leads foreign policy - the FS has a secondary role these days. It's Starmer who goes to the summits and talks to the likes of Trump, Macron and Xi while the FS deals with officials and Cabinet-level figures behind the scenes. In an increasingly Presidential era, that's a lesser role than it used to be.

    Many PMs like getting into the nitty gritty of foreign policy as an antidote to the humdrum of domestic policy. The Chancellor and Home Secretary have more latitude as a result but are more clearly in the firing line when it all goes wrong.
    I agree with most of this. What I do think is a shame, is that it feels like Lammy actually did build a decent relationship with Trump, Rubio and Vance, and I actually think he was surprising quite significantly on the upside. There was stuff that I didn’t agree with, Chagos being the biggie, but out of all the people in cabinet he was the one who I thought was getting on with everything pretty well.

    I have quite a bit of time for Cooper, and I am sure she will present herself well on the international stage, but I do think it is a shame that the work Lammy has done to build relationships with a very difficult crowd in the US is being re-set a little.
  • Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surprisingly big Cabinet reshuffle after Rayner resigned. Big hitters given big posts like Cooper to Foreign Secretary and Mahmood (rewarded after good work on prison reform and sentencing at Justice) to Home Secretary.

    Lammy becomes DPM and will be a popular figure with Labour members as Rayner was but he no longer holds a great Office of State leaving the Foreign Office to replace Mahmood at Justice. The reshuffle means all the holders of a Great Office of State in the Cabinet and the PM have Oxbridge degrees, something which has not been the case in any Labour government before. Starmer going on an intellectually more heavyweight Cabinet then to contrast with Reform, none of whose MPs have Oxbridge degrees and to a lesser extent the Tories, of whom the party leader Kemi Badenoch and Shadow Foreign Secretary Priti Patel are non Oxbridge

    It's not UNinteresting - but you seem a little obsessed with which universities people went to. Which is fine, but not a thing I think anyone bases their vote on.
    Not votes but it is something I have based betting on, including backing both Liz Truss and Rishi. There are a lot of Oxbridge types in the Establishment, including the Fourth Estate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,065
    edited September 5
    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surprisingly big Cabinet reshuffle after Rayner resigned. Big hitters given big posts like Cooper to Foreign Secretary and Mahmood (rewarded after good work on prison reform and sentencing at Justice) to Home Secretary.

    Lammy becomes DPM and will be a popular figure with Labour members as Rayner was but he no longer holds a great Office of State leaving the Foreign Office to replace Mahmood at Justice. The reshuffle means all the holders of a Great Office of State in the Cabinet and the PM have Oxbridge degrees, something which has not been the case in any Labour government before. Starmer going on an intellectually more heavyweight Cabinet then to contrast with Reform, none of whose MPs have Oxbridge degrees and to a lesser extent the Tories, of whom the party leader Kemi Badenoch and Shadow Foreign Secretary Priti Patel are non Oxbridge

    It's not UNinteresting - but you seem a little obsessed with which universities people went to. Which is fine, but not a thing I think anyone bases their vote on.
    Snobs might, especially some of the middle class voters in London and the South who lent their votes to Starmer last year but refused to vote for Corbyn and think Farage a populist lightweight
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,141
    Cookie said:

    Dopermean said:

    kinabalu said:

    WTF as Lammy done to be demoted? There's a story there for Sunday's papers surely

    Is he the sacrificial Lammy?

    He'll certainly be displeased, I'd have thought.
    Seems a strange decision, Lammy having sacrificed his personal esteem to ingratiate himself with Vance and Cooper having sacrificed her vaguely left-wing credentials as an increasingly authoritarian Home sec.
    Foreign sec is currently a really, really hard job: dealing with Trump is horrible, finding an appropriate line to take in Israel is almost impossible, dealing with China is massively challenging. There is an ongoing war in Ukraine we have a constant battle in keeping allies onside for. There are a dozen other foreign governments which while not openly hostile are constantly on the lookout to get one over on the Brits.
    Lammy was utterly awful for the first few months of his tenure (Chagos and its aftermath sticks in the memory). But to his credit he's managed the big challenges this year, particularly wrt Trump. Best of luck to Cooper.
    Lammy was completely useless. I hope he's gone to be Minister in charge of motorway cones... about his level.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,208
    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hzeffman

    For the first time ever the holders of the three great offices of state beyond PM (chancellor, foreign secretary, home secretary) are all women

    I think we’ve had plenty of evidence now that what people have between their legs has zero influence on them being capable. Probably time to stop getting excited by identity and focus on ability.
    A fine and worthy sentiment. But I do hope you don't have in your body of work on here any posts a-mocking and a-taunting Labour for never having had a woman leader. Because if you do they'll be unearthed and that would be deeply regrettable and you might have to take an enforced break from internet punditing.
    I’m absolutely certain I have mocked Labour for it however they justify mockery as they have been the traditional party of identity politics and so for them not to have had a female leader does amuse slightly.

    At least my admission saves you the tedium of going through old posts of mine if you had been so inclined.
  • OT just had two emergency alert tests. First silent, second with noise.

    That should be on Sunday at 3pm.

    https://educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2025/09/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-emergency-alerts-test-on-7-september/
    Just had a third one, again with noise. When the balloon goes up and the chips are down, I'll be first into the air raid shelter.
    Fourth test alert of the day, with noise.
    My Sainsbury's chauffeur has had one test alert this afternoon.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,958
    stodge said:

    Cookie said:

    Dopermean said:

    kinabalu said:

    WTF as Lammy done to be demoted? There's a story there for Sunday's papers surely

    Is he the sacrificial Lammy?

    He'll certainly be displeased, I'd have thought.
    Seems a strange decision, Lammy having sacrificed his personal esteem to ingratiate himself with Vance and Cooper having sacrificed her vaguely left-wing credentials as an increasingly authoritarian Home sec.
    Foreign sec is currently a really, really hard job: dealing with Trump is horrible, finding an appropriate line to take in Israel is almost impossible, dealing with China is massively challenging. There is an ongoing war in Ukraine we have a constant battle in keeping allies onside for. There are a dozen other foreign governments which while not openly hostile are constantly on the lookout to get one over on the Brits.
    Lammy was utterly awful for the first few months of his tenure (Chagos and its aftermath sticks in the memory). But to his credit he's managed the big challenges this year, particularly wrt Trump. Best of luck to Cooper.
    Not for the first time, I don't wholly agree.

    The Prime Minister leads foreign policy - the FS has a secondary role these days. It's Starmer who goes to the summits and talks to the likes of Trump, Macron and Xi while the FS deals with officials and Cabinet-level figures behind the scenes. In an increasingly Presidential era, that's a lesser role than it used to be.

    Many PMs like getting into the nitty gritty of foreign policy as an antidote to the humdrum of domestic policy. The Chancellor and Home Secretary have more latitude as a result but are more clearly in the firing line when it all goes wrong.
    Fair enough - do you also disagree that Lammy has done a reasonable job as FS this year?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,580
    Cookie said:

    Dopermean said:

    kinabalu said:

    WTF as Lammy done to be demoted? There's a story there for Sunday's papers surely

    Is he the sacrificial Lammy?

    He'll certainly be displeased, I'd have thought.
    Seems a strange decision, Lammy having sacrificed his personal esteem to ingratiate himself with Vance and Cooper having sacrificed her vaguely left-wing credentials as an increasingly authoritarian Home sec.
    Foreign sec is currently a really, really hard job: dealing with Trump is horrible, finding an appropriate line to take in Israel is almost impossible, dealing with China is massively challenging. There is an ongoing war in Ukraine we have a constant battle in keeping allies onside for. There are a dozen other foreign governments which while not openly hostile are constantly on the lookout to get one over on the Brits.
    Lammy was utterly awful for the first few months of his tenure (Chagos and its aftermath sticks in the memory). But to his credit he's managed the big challenges this year, particularly wrt Trump. Best of luck to Cooper.
    Finding an appropriate line to take with Israel is easy. Ostracise them. Stop supplying them with weapons. Recognise Palestine as an independent state.
    It would also ca’ the feet from Your Party and the Greens and keep those of us with a conscience from despising Labour even more than we already do.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,844
    stodge said:

    biggles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Survation.
    @Survation

    NEW: Westminster Voting Intention

    RFM 30 (+3)
    LAB 24 (-)
    CON 19 (-1)
    LD 11 (-2)
    GRN 8 (-)
    OTH 6 (-2)

    F/w 28th August- 2nd September 2025. Changes vs 2nd June."

    https://x.com/Survation/status/1963988192568242672

    I don’t think we talk enough about the room for a rapid Tory recovery with the right leader.

    Not saying it’s the most likely future, but it’s very far from impossible.
    Yes, well, as the saying goes I'll have some of what you're smoking.

    Reform blocks a Conservative recovery - where Farage & Co to implode and Advance be unable to pick up the pieces, you might see the Conservatives move forward but it needs a black swan event of that level.

    With yet another poll showing Reform at or above 30%, Farage is justifiably in high spirits at the start of his Conference. I'm wating for "go back to your constituencies and prepare to be disappointed" as his strapline but at this stage the road to power looks wide open with the opposition groups unable or unwilling to mount a coherent challenge.

    As we know, however, a week is a long time in politics and a year an eternity.
    Needs 5% from Reform and for a chunk of other Reform “voters” to not turn up and those are very interesting numbers. And that’s within the bounds of recent evidence.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,141
    Lammy Deputy PM. Words fail.me
  • Now we have had a decent period of mourning for the fallen,

    1 Who is now the "Starmer walks in front of a bus tomorrow" candidate?
    2 Who are the prime "Starmer is thrown under a bus in 2028" candidates?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,355
    edited September 5
    Genuine question, Dale Vince appears to send most of his days at the moment fighting on social media and chasing around the country to political events e.g. today he has been to Birmingham to get banned from Reform Party Conference and apparently is now in London to talk to Sky about Labour Party politics.

    Does he still run his power business? Or is he just the face of the brand? I wonder if he fancies a go as an MP with the YourParty?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,822
    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surprisingly big Cabinet reshuffle after Rayner resigned. Big hitters given big posts like Cooper to Foreign Secretary and Mahmood (rewarded after good work on prison reform and sentencing at Justice) to Home Secretary.

    Lammy becomes DPM and will be a popular figure with Labour members as Rayner was but he no longer holds a great Office of State leaving the Foreign Office to replace Mahmood at Justice. The reshuffle means all the holders of a Great Office of State in the Cabinet and the PM have Oxbridge degrees, something which has not been the case in any Labour government before. Starmer going on an intellectually more heavyweight Cabinet then to contrast with Reform, none of whose MPs have Oxbridge degrees and to a lesser extent the Tories, of whom the party leader Kemi Badenoch and Shadow Foreign Secretary Priti Patel are non Oxbridge

    It's not UNinteresting - but you seem a little obsessed with which universities people went to. Which is fine, but not a thing I think anyone bases their vote on.
    Snobs might, especially some of the middle class voters in London and the South who lent their votes to Starmer last year but refused to vote for Corbyn and think Farage a populist lightweight
    You don't need to be a snob to think Farage is a populist lightweight. You just need to be in possession of a functioning brain.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,810

    OT just had two emergency alert tests. First silent, second with noise.

    That should be on Sunday at 3pm.

    https://educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2025/09/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-emergency-alerts-test-on-7-september/
    Just had a third one, again with noise. When the balloon goes up and the chips are down, I'll be first into the air raid shelter.
    Fourth test alert of the day, with noise.
    That’s like being in Ukraine, as I was a few weeks back…

    At least yours are only tests.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,217
    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hzeffman

    For the first time ever the holders of the three great offices of state beyond PM (chancellor, foreign secretary, home secretary) are all women

    I think we’ve had plenty of evidence now that what people have between their legs has zero influence on them being capable. Probably time to stop getting excited by identity and focus on ability.
    A fine and worthy sentiment. But I do hope you don't have in your body of work on here any posts a-mocking and a-taunting Labour for never having had a woman leader. Because if you do they'll be unearthed and that would be deeply regrettable and you might have to take an enforced break from internet punditing.
    I’m absolutely certain I have mocked Labour for it however they justify mockery as they have been the traditional party of identity politics and so for them not to have had a female leader does amuse slightly.

    At least my admission saves you the tedium of going through old posts of mine if you had been so inclined.
    Well done for the clear and immediate mea culpa. No investigation now necessary. Politicians caught misbehaving please take note and learn.
  • Lammy Deputy PM. Words fail.me

    Less plausible than Thérèse Coffey or Oliver Dowden?

    Really?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,976

    Lammy Deputy PM. Words fail.me

    Less plausible than Thérèse Coffey or Oliver Dowden?

    Really?
    I had forgotten Therese Coffey was ever DPM.

    That said, I think my brain has tried to blot a lot of that bizarre period from my memory.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,065

    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surprisingly big Cabinet reshuffle after Rayner resigned. Big hitters given big posts like Cooper to Foreign Secretary and Mahmood (rewarded after good work on prison reform and sentencing at Justice) to Home Secretary.

    Lammy becomes DPM and will be a popular figure with Labour members as Rayner was but he no longer holds a great Office of State leaving the Foreign Office to replace Mahmood at Justice. The reshuffle means all the holders of a Great Office of State in the Cabinet and the PM have Oxbridge degrees, something which has not been the case in any Labour government before. Starmer going on an intellectually more heavyweight Cabinet then to contrast with Reform, none of whose MPs have Oxbridge degrees and to a lesser extent the Tories, of whom the party leader Kemi Badenoch and Shadow Foreign Secretary Priti Patel are non Oxbridge

    It's not UNinteresting - but you seem a little obsessed with which universities people went to. Which is fine, but not a thing I think anyone bases their vote on.
    Snobs might, especially some of the middle class voters in London and the South who lent their votes to Starmer last year but refused to vote for Corbyn and think Farage a populist lightweight
    You don't need to be a snob to think Farage is a populist lightweight. You just need to be in possession of a functioning brain.
    So the third of voters now voting for Farage on your logic don't have a functioning brain?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,580
    HYUFD said:

    Surprisingly big Cabinet reshuffle after Rayner resigned. Big hitters given big posts like Cooper to Foreign Secretary and Mahmood (rewarded after good work on prison reform and sentencing at Justice) to Home Secretary.

    Lammy becomes DPM and will be a popular figure with Labour members as Rayner was but he no longer holds a great Office of State leaving the Foreign Office to replace Mahmood at Justice. The reshuffle means all the holders of a Great Office of State in the Cabinet and the PM have Oxbridge degrees, something which has not been the case in any Labour government since the 1951 Attlee government. Starmer going on an intellectually more heavyweight Cabinet then to contrast with Reform, none of whose MPs have Oxbridge degrees and to a lesser extent the Tories, of whom the party leader Kemi Badenoch and Shadow Foreign Secretary Priti Patel are non Oxbridge

    Rayner was also the most senior Labour Cabinet Minister to have served in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet, so Starmer also seeking to put clear blue water with Your Party with none of his appointments today having served under Corbyn

    I’m disappointed he’s moved Lammy, who was proving to be a good Foreign Secretary, particularly when dealing with the USA. I’m delighted he has sacked Ian Murray, before even selecting his replacement.

    P.S. I hope and trust Mrs. HYUFD and the prospective HYFUD junior are doing well.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,337

    Now we have had a decent period of mourning for the fallen,

    1 Who is now the "Starmer walks in front of a bus tomorrow" candidate?
    2 Who are the prime "Starmer is thrown under a bus in 2028" candidates?

    I would say that Sir Keir is grooming Yvette for the role - getting FO experience is regarded as being a big part of the toolkit. Also, of course, memories of her connection with boat crossings will have faded.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,355
    edited September 5
    Cabinet reshuffle complete.

    Obviously its 5.30pm on Friday, its knocking off time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,065

    HYUFD said:

    Surprisingly big Cabinet reshuffle after Rayner resigned. Big hitters given big posts like Cooper to Foreign Secretary and Mahmood (rewarded after good work on prison reform and sentencing at Justice) to Home Secretary.

    Lammy becomes DPM and will be a popular figure with Labour members as Rayner was but he no longer holds a great Office of State leaving the Foreign Office to replace Mahmood at Justice. The reshuffle means all the holders of a Great Office of State in the Cabinet and the PM have Oxbridge degrees, something which has not been the case in any Labour government since the 1951 Attlee government. Starmer going on an intellectually more heavyweight Cabinet then to contrast with Reform, none of whose MPs have Oxbridge degrees and to a lesser extent the Tories, of whom the party leader Kemi Badenoch and Shadow Foreign Secretary Priti Patel are non Oxbridge

    Rayner was also the most senior Labour Cabinet Minister to have served in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet, so Starmer also seeking to put clear blue water with Your Party with none of his appointments today having served under Corbyn

    I’m disappointed he’s moved Lammy, who was proving to be a good Foreign Secretary, particularly when dealing with the USA. I’m delighted he has sacked Ian Murray, before even selecting his replacement.

    P.S. I hope and trust Mrs. HYUFD and the prospective HYFUD junior are doing well.
    Perhaps he thought he was getting a bit too close to Vance for voters Labour have lost to the LDs and Greens.

    Yes all fine here thanks
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,780
    Pulpstar said:

    Steve Reed to housing.

    Who?

    SoS for Housing, Communities & Local Gov't (Our Ang's old job/Pennycook's boss) or is this actual housing (Pennycook's job) ?
    Former says Sky
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,780
    Wee Dougie is new scotland sec
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,701

    Now we have had a decent period of mourning for the fallen,

    1 Who is now the "Starmer walks in front of a bus tomorrow" candidate?
    2 Who are the prime "Starmer is thrown under a bus in 2028" candidates?

    Cooper as HS now FS has to be in with a shot. Mahmood with her new promotion is got to be value. I don't know if Rayner will ever come back now. Streeting you'd think would now be in pole position but I think Mahmood may now have eclipsed him?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,976

    Cabinet reshuffle complete.

    Hang on, we don’t have a Scottish Secretary or Leader of the House yet do we?

    DEFRA?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,780
    Powell to Business.

    That's just LOL.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,355
    edited September 5

    Cabinet reshuffle complete.

    Hang on, we don’t have a Scottish Secretary or Leader of the House yet do we?

    DEFRA?
    Wee Dougie for Scotland. DEFRA is Emma Reynolds. Don't know about LoH, but its 5.30pm, so end of play.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,958
    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surprisingly big Cabinet reshuffle after Rayner resigned. Big hitters given big posts like Cooper to Foreign Secretary and Mahmood (rewarded after good work on prison reform and sentencing at Justice) to Home Secretary.

    Lammy becomes DPM and will be a popular figure with Labour members as Rayner was but he no longer holds a great Office of State leaving the Foreign Office to replace Mahmood at Justice. The reshuffle means all the holders of a Great Office of State in the Cabinet and the PM have Oxbridge degrees, something which has not been the case in any Labour government before. Starmer going on an intellectually more heavyweight Cabinet then to contrast with Reform, none of whose MPs have Oxbridge degrees and to a lesser extent the Tories, of whom the party leader Kemi Badenoch and Shadow Foreign Secretary Priti Patel are non Oxbridge

    It's not UNinteresting - but you seem a little obsessed with which universities people went to. Which is fine, but not a thing I think anyone bases their vote on.
    Snobs might, especially some of the middle class voters in London and the South who lent their votes to Starmer last year but refused to vote for Corbyn and think Farage a populist lightweight
    I don't think these people who will only vote for parties whose leader went to Oxbridge exist - certainly not in significant numbers.
    I don't think there is a single voter who would vote Farage if only he had gone to Oxford or Cambridge university.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,780

    Cabinet reshuffle complete.

    Hang on, we don’t have a Scottish Secretary or Leader of the House yet do we?

    DEFRA?
    Wee Dougie for Scotland. DEFRA is Emma Reynolds. Don't know about LoH, but its 5.30pm, so end of play.
    Alan Campbell is new LOH I think. Or was it Alan Cairns?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,580

    Wee Dougie is new scotland sec

    Mr. Smarmy! Slab will be delighted.
  • I f##kling hate the tw@ts at Sky that scream "witty" things at politicians as they walk down Downing Streets.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,822
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surprisingly big Cabinet reshuffle after Rayner resigned. Big hitters given big posts like Cooper to Foreign Secretary and Mahmood (rewarded after good work on prison reform and sentencing at Justice) to Home Secretary.

    Lammy becomes DPM and will be a popular figure with Labour members as Rayner was but he no longer holds a great Office of State leaving the Foreign Office to replace Mahmood at Justice. The reshuffle means all the holders of a Great Office of State in the Cabinet and the PM have Oxbridge degrees, something which has not been the case in any Labour government before. Starmer going on an intellectually more heavyweight Cabinet then to contrast with Reform, none of whose MPs have Oxbridge degrees and to a lesser extent the Tories, of whom the party leader Kemi Badenoch and Shadow Foreign Secretary Priti Patel are non Oxbridge

    It's not UNinteresting - but you seem a little obsessed with which universities people went to. Which is fine, but not a thing I think anyone bases their vote on.
    Snobs might, especially some of the middle class voters in London and the South who lent their votes to Starmer last year but refused to vote for Corbyn and think Farage a populist lightweight
    You don't need to be a snob to think Farage is a populist lightweight. You just need to be in possession of a functioning brain.
    So the third of voters now voting for Farage on your logic don't have a functioning brain?
    I said having a functioning brain was necessary to see that Farage was a populist lightweight. I didn't say it was sufficient, which is what your statement would require. Logic fail on your part, sorry.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,624
    edited September 5
    Foss said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sister Bliss can sleep soundly!
    What is Andrea Jenkyns thinking? Surely Eurovision can't be a Reform thing?

    Just like Trump and the Village People there's a weird, almost campness about the whole thing.
    There was an evolved Farage costume in 2024, camped up black shorts:


    There's also @Leon 's future sweetheart, so he can parade his new obsession with oompah shorts with a lady of a certain age. He can be the apple of her eye.
    https://youtu.be/mLOGX_UeDD8?t=1
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,889

    Genuine question, Dale Vince appears to send most of his days at the moment fighting on social media and chasing around the country to political events e.g. today he has been to Birmingham to get banned from Reform Party Conference and apparently is now in London to talk to Sky about Labour Party politics.

    Does he still run his power business? Or is he just the face of the brand? I wonder if he fancies a go as an MP with the YourParty?

    A lightweight Elon Musk type
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,624
    edited September 5
    Taz said:
    Blake's 7 IS back.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,236
    Cookie said:

    stodge said:

    Cookie said:

    Dopermean said:

    kinabalu said:

    WTF as Lammy done to be demoted? There's a story there for Sunday's papers surely

    Is he the sacrificial Lammy?

    He'll certainly be displeased, I'd have thought.
    Seems a strange decision, Lammy having sacrificed his personal esteem to ingratiate himself with Vance and Cooper having sacrificed her vaguely left-wing credentials as an increasingly authoritarian Home sec.
    Foreign sec is currently a really, really hard job: dealing with Trump is horrible, finding an appropriate line to take in Israel is almost impossible, dealing with China is massively challenging. There is an ongoing war in Ukraine we have a constant battle in keeping allies onside for. There are a dozen other foreign governments which while not openly hostile are constantly on the lookout to get one over on the Brits.
    Lammy was utterly awful for the first few months of his tenure (Chagos and its aftermath sticks in the memory). But to his credit he's managed the big challenges this year, particularly wrt Trump. Best of luck to Cooper.
    Not for the first time, I don't wholly agree.

    The Prime Minister leads foreign policy - the FS has a secondary role these days. It's Starmer who goes to the summits and talks to the likes of Trump, Macron and Xi while the FS deals with officials and Cabinet-level figures behind the scenes. In an increasingly Presidential era, that's a lesser role than it used to be.

    Many PMs like getting into the nitty gritty of foreign policy as an antidote to the humdrum of domestic policy. The Chancellor and Home Secretary have more latitude as a result but are more clearly in the firing line when it all goes wrong.
    Fair enough - do you also disagree that Lammy has done a reasonable job as FS this year?
    As others have said, after a difficult start (and I do wonder how much the Chagos Islands resolution was down to Starmer himself) , he's done well this year balancing the difficult relationships with the incoming second Trump administration. The Europeans, while marginalised by Trump on Ukraine, are probably key to both an eventual resolution and the maintenance of any negotiated settlement.

    What the coming of Trump has done has been to rebuild European unity beyond the narrow confines of the EU. The old adage of either hanging together or hanging separately applies to European defence and foreign policy.

    It will be interesting to find out down the line what Starmer's thinking on this is and has been - it may be Lammy felt he had gone as far as he could and a new face was needed.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,958
    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @hzeffman

    For the first time ever the holders of the three great offices of state beyond PM (chancellor, foreign secretary, home secretary) are all women

    I think we’ve had plenty of evidence now that what people have between their legs has zero influence on them being capable. Probably time to stop getting excited by identity and focus on ability.
    A fine and worthy sentiment. But I do hope you don't have in your body of work on here any posts a-mocking and a-taunting Labour for never having had a woman leader. Because if you do they'll be unearthed and that would be deeply regrettable and you might have to take an enforced break from internet punditing.
    I’m absolutely certain I have mocked Labour for it however they justify mockery as they have been the traditional party of identity politics and so for them not to have had a female leader does amuse slightly.

    At least my admission saves you the tedium of going through old posts of mine if you had been so inclined.
    Well done for the clear and immediate mea culpa. No investigation now necessary. Politicians caught misbehaving please take note and learn.
    Well I don't think I've mocked Labour for it. I congratulate them for never yet going down the tokenism route for leader, though sorely and idiotically tempted they have clearly been, and lament that they felt compelled to do so for deputy. Choosing a leader for their identity rather than their ability is lamentable whoever does it. I'm glad that none of the long string of awful female Labour MPs ofmy lifetime was never leader.
    Though I had a soft spot for Gwyneth Dunwoody.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,586
    edited September 5
    Yvette Cooper is smart, but needs to work on her communication and relational skills.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,217
    viewcode said:

    Now we have had a decent period of mourning for the fallen,

    1 Who is now the "Starmer walks in front of a bus tomorrow" candidate?
    2 Who are the prime "Starmer is thrown under a bus in 2028" candidates?

    Cooper as HS now FS has to be in with a shot. Mahmood with her new promotion is got to be value. I don't know if Rayner will ever come back now. Streeting you'd think would now be in pole position but I think Mahmood may now have eclipsed him?
    On Betfair everyone's a double digit price except Streeting.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,864
    @paulhutcheon

    Confirmed: Douglas Alexander is the new Scotland Secretary.

    It is also an incredible comeback. He was in the Cabinet in the last Labour Government and was Scotland Sec under Tony Blair.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,337
    Taz said:
    Hmm. I think Nigel should eschew conference razzle dazzle - all seems a bit flippant when the message Reform wants to put across is one of authoritarian crackdowns, imminent civil war and a nation ablaze.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,844

    Now we have had a decent period of mourning for the fallen,

    1 Who is now the "Starmer walks in front of a bus tomorrow" candidate?
    2 Who are the prime "Starmer is thrown under a bus in 2028" candidates?

    One doesn’t want the job for one’s self, but if one’s friends and colleagues insisted…
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,953
    Taz said:
    We'rrre Aaallllrrrigghtttt!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,217
    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Confirmed: Douglas Alexander is the new Scotland Secretary.

    It is also an incredible comeback. He was in the Cabinet in the last Labour Government and was Scotland Sec under Tony Blair.

    Yes that's a real bridge back to those heady days. Oasis reunion and now this.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,289
    This government will self destruct in three, two, oh, damn, too late.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,208
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Confirmed: Douglas Alexander is the new Scotland Secretary.

    It is also an incredible comeback. He was in the Cabinet in the last Labour Government and was Scotland Sec under Tony Blair.

    Yes that's a real bridge back to those heady days. Oasis reunion and now this.
    Just need a crappy US President who messes up the world with foolish foreign policy decisions for the full set.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,976
    Taz said:
    If ever you need a reminder that there are four years for Reform to crash and burn in, watch that.

    At the moment we all laugh about it. But at some point people do need to be convinced they want them running the country (the “scales will fall from people’s eyes” argument is overblown, I think - but not completely).
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,393
    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Confirmed: Douglas Alexander is the new Scotland Secretary.

    It is also an incredible comeback. He was in the Cabinet in the last Labour Government and was Scotland Sec under Tony Blair.

    The long view! He was defeated in 2015 by the 12 year old Mhairi Black of the SNP. Ms Black, now aged 30 left the SNP earlier this year because trans, Palestine etc. Last seen doing comic turns at the Fringe.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,236
    DavidL said:

    This government will self destruct in three, two, oh, damn, too late.

    Hardly - it's a distraction which Starmer could have done without but we often see autumn reshuffles and I suspect, after tinkering round the edges, the Prime Minister has gone for a root and branch approach especially at the top level.

    We could see, in response, some changes to the Conservative Shadow team - perhaps Stride will be moved on. Philp has had a decent summer and then of course there's the Jenrick issue.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,976
    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Confirmed: Douglas Alexander is the new Scotland Secretary.

    It is also an incredible comeback. He was in the Cabinet in the last Labour Government and was Scotland Sec under Tony Blair.

    The long view! He was defeated in 2015 by the 12 year old Mhairi Black of the SNP. Ms Black, now aged 30 left the SNP earlier this year because trans, Palestine etc. Last seen doing comic turns at the Fringe.
    Hence, a timely reminder that Rayner’s political career is not “over”, or at least doesn’t need to be if she doesn’t want it to be.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,289
    stodge said:

    DavidL said:

    This government will self destruct in three, two, oh, damn, too late.

    Hardly - it's a distraction which Starmer could have done without but we often see autumn reshuffles and I suspect, after tinkering round the edges, the Prime Minister has gone for a root and branch approach especially at the top level.

    We could see, in response, some changes to the Conservative Shadow team - perhaps Stride will be moved on. Philp has had a decent summer and then of course there's the Jenrick issue.
    Oh come on. This must be the biggest reshuffle since the night of the long knives in the 1962.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,495

    Farage still didn't have anything of note to say other than ya boo, unions jacks are great, illegal immigrants bad, here is Mad Nad. Given that was the extent of it, I doubt he is bothered that Labour troubles are dominating the headlines. Otherwise people might ask some awkward questions about policy and stuff.

    Apparently he's going to stop the boats in two weeks — Trump's favourite length of time — which presumably means he's going to order the Royal Navy to sink them, as I sure as hell can't see what else would stop them so quickly.
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