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This is not a good look for the Deputy Prime Minister – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,857
    Who else have I dated and simply forgotten?

    I probably had a Swissnick with a young Natassja Kinski and an even younger Michelle Pfeiffer, and it's simply vanished. The memory

    Looking back, I am now fairly sure that happened. Yes
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,674

    ohnotnow said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Watching the 2010 election on VHS at the moment. Hung parliament.

    It wasn't that long ago the old VHS I had from 1990 of Vic Reeves Big Night Out finally gave up the ghost. At the end the Channel 4 presenter quietly explained that Margaret Thatcher had resigned as prime minister and there would be a change of programming. Which was the first I'd heard of it - having been out all day and pre-internet/mobile/blah.

    Ive still got a VHS of the network premiere of The Poseiden Adventure
    I haven't played it in over 15 or 20 years though so it may well now be buggered
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,153

    ohnotnow said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Watching the 2010 election on VHS at the moment. Hung parliament.

    It wasn't that long ago the old VHS I had from 1990 of Vic Reeves Big Night Out finally gave up the ghost. At the end the Channel 4 presenter quietly explained that Margaret Thatcher had resigned as prime minister and there would be a change of programming. Which was the first I'd heard of it - having been out all day and pre-internet/mobile/blah.

    Ive still got a VHS of the network premiere of The Poseiden Adventure
    I haven't played it in over 15 or 20 years though so it may well now be buggered
    A proper film for Saturday afternoon when the weather is terrible.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,804
    ohnotnow said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Watching the 2010 election on VHS at the moment. Hung parliament.

    It wasn't that long ago the old VHS I had from 1990 of Vic Reeves Big Night Out finally gave up the ghost. At the end the Channel 4 presenter quietly explained that Margaret Thatcher had resigned as prime minister and there would be a change of programming. Which was the first I'd heard of it - having been out all day and pre-internet/mobile/blah.
    (weird pedantism alert)

    1990 was not pre-Internet, technically. I first used my usual moniker on the Internet in about 1988 or 1989. What wasn't around was the WWW. Which is part of, but not, the Internet. I first used the WWW in abut 1993, in the ITC center at QMW in London. I think the browser was Mosaic. Before that it was Telnet, finger, pad, kermit, etc.

    (I can't even recall exactly what pad was...)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,674
    Leon said:

    Who else have I dated and simply forgotten?

    I probably had a Swissnick with a young Natassja Kinski and an even younger Michelle Pfeiffer, and it's simply vanished. The memory

    Looking back, I am now fairly sure that happened. Yes

    I deflowered a girl who had been on Blockbusters at Uni. She'd done 5 gold runs so clearly was used to success
  • Nigelb said:

    This I why I would be sacking, or reshuffling Raynor
    I really don't give a crap either way about this tax thing; let the Revenue sort it out.

    Over the last three years, housebuilding in London has collapsed. Molior recorded just 2,158 private starts in the first half of 2025, around 5% of London’s (low) targets, and still falling.

    What is going on? I have posed this question to numerous specialists, most of whom cannot comment publicly for professional reasons. This thread is a summary of what I have gleaned.

    https://x.com/SCP_Hughes/status/1963196403913494704

    Whether or not she made a mistake or accidentally-on-purpose misstated her tax position is of minimal interest to me.
    The fact that this government is proving as feeble as the last one in sorting out the planning morass, actually matters to millions of people's lives.

    Angela FILTH Rayner

    Failed
    In
    London
    Tried
    Hove
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,674
    boulay said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Watching the 2010 election on VHS at the moment. Hung parliament.

    It wasn't that long ago the old VHS I had from 1990 of Vic Reeves Big Night Out finally gave up the ghost. At the end the Channel 4 presenter quietly explained that Margaret Thatcher had resigned as prime minister and there would be a change of programming. Which was the first I'd heard of it - having been out all day and pre-internet/mobile/blah.

    Ive still got a VHS of the network premiere of The Poseiden Adventure
    I haven't played it in over 15 or 20 years though so it may well now be buggered
    A proper film for Saturday afternoon when the weather is terrible.
    I did at least transfer my Xmas 1987 recording of Airplane 2 to DVD (still have that tape too)
    Cracking adverts and Michael Speake doing continuity
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,804
    edited September 3
    Awful accident in Lisbon: 15 dead after a funicular (inclined railway) crash.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cpqnnllppnpt

    Edit: I think this is it:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascensor_da_Glória
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,259
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2025/sep/03/two-tiktok-limit-loo-reduce-haemorrhoid-risk-doctors

    For those of us who like Twitter ...

    "After accounting for common risk factors for haemorrhoids such as older age, physical inactivity and low dietary fibre, toilet scrollers were 46% more likely to have piles than those who left their phone behind. More than a third (37%) of toilet scrollers spent more than five minutes on the lavatory compared with only 7% of those without phones.

    Reading on the toilet is nothing new, but Pasricha believes that the newspapers, magazines and books that once kept people occupied are no match for the likes of TikTok and Instagram. “The whole business model of these apps is to make you lose track of time,” she said. “Our pre-TikTok ancestors were just reading a newspaper or whatever they could find. It wasn’t distracting to the same level.”"
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,153
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2025/sep/03/two-tiktok-limit-loo-reduce-haemorrhoid-risk-doctors

    For those of us who like Twitter ...

    "After accounting for common risk factors for haemorrhoids such as older age, physical inactivity and low dietary fibre, toilet scrollers were 46% more likely to have piles than those who left their phone behind. More than a third (37%) of toilet scrollers spent more than five minutes on the lavatory compared with only 7% of those without phones.

    Reading on the toilet is nothing new, but Pasricha believes that the newspapers, magazines and books that once kept people occupied are no match for the likes of TikTok and Instagram. “The whole business model of these apps is to make you lose track of time,” she said. “Our pre-TikTok ancestors were just reading a newspaper or whatever they could find. It wasn’t distracting to the same level.”"

    So even more hoop stress.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,726
    Trump: "war is dangerous"
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,007
    ohnotnow said:

    TimS said:

    kle4 said:


    Scott_xP said:
    He can be very good but he does phone it in a bit often for a guy on a reported salary of £650k!
    Even the greatest of artists, in any medium, cannot churn out masterworks consisitently forever. Plenty of great directors who made shitty movies, or great authors who wrote shitty novels. Especially when they've been at it for decades.
    I went round the Picasso museum in Paris a couple of weeks ago. Generally very interesting, but you realise halfway through that he stopped doing anything new or innovative after the 1930s. He was churning out the same cubist stuff until his death decades later.
    I agree with the view of Picasso being a bit incontinently samey in his latter years but I don’t think it could be described as Cubism. As befits modern art’s first superstar he kinda defies categorisation. I suppose despite there being tons of it one can almost always recognise it as a Picasso.
    I seem to remember that de Chirico was accused in later life of painting in his earlier style on the quiet, then selling them to people who liked that era of his work claiming them to be originals from 20-30 years before.
    I think there was a lot of it about, eg Dali. Must have been a hell of a temptation if just putting your signature on something turned it into a big fat cheque.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,126

    Awful accident in Lisbon: 15 dead after a funicular (inclined railway) crash.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cpqnnllppnpt

    Edit: I think this is it:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascensor_da_Glória

    I have been on it. Didn't realise it was so dangerous
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,007
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    i have a funny story

    A Gazette editor just texted me to say he's run into a TV personality in NYC, in a studio

    She's not very well known now, but she was once really quite famous. Older PB-ers, ie 87% of us, will definitely know her

    Anyway the subject moved on to ME, because she said she'd read my stuff, and did the editor know that she and me went on a date? The editor said No, so she explained how the date went (not very well, I seemed "troubled"). She told my editor how she'd researched me before, so she knew what to expect, but still found me "unexpected"

    Here is the kicker. I don't remember this date. It clearly happened (why would she make this up??) but I do not remember a date. With a fairly famous TV presenter. I must have been so off my tits on drugs it goet erased in the mess

    Was it Judith Chalmers?

    I was infatuated with Anna Ford (in a fairly pure way) when an adolescent. It sort of intensified when I learned she was the wife/widow of Mark Boxer.
    Yeah, but did you go on a date with Anna Ford, when you were so fucked up on heroin you didn't even realise it was a date, and then you forgot it anyway?
    No, nor with Judith.
    I did catch a glimpse of the fragrant Anna in Chelsea in the mid 80s but by then the fire had died down.
  • I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,940

    Awful accident in Lisbon: 15 dead after a funicular (inclined railway) crash.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cpqnnllppnpt

    Edit: I think this is it:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascensor_da_Glória

    Me too. It's a standard tourist thing. Awful.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,674
    edited September 3
    The details of what she did and the 'doing my best for my family' bit don't seem to marry up to me.......
    Murky.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,940
    edited September 3

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    A I'd do that; and
    B She's fucked.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,360
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2025/sep/03/two-tiktok-limit-loo-reduce-haemorrhoid-risk-doctors

    For those of us who like Twitter ...

    "After accounting for common risk factors for haemorrhoids such as older age, physical inactivity and low dietary fibre, toilet scrollers were 46% more likely to have piles than those who left their phone behind. More than a third (37%) of toilet scrollers spent more than five minutes on the lavatory compared with only 7% of those without phones.

    Reading on the toilet is nothing new, but Pasricha believes that the newspapers, magazines and books that once kept people occupied are no match for the likes of TikTok and Instagram. “The whole business model of these apps is to make you lose track of time,” she said. “Our pre-TikTok ancestors were just reading a newspaper or whatever they could find. It wasn’t distracting to the same level.”"

    How fortunate for me my toilet is, for some reason, a dead zone which cuts off all wifi, bluetooth, and other connections.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,588

    ohnotnow said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Watching the 2010 election on VHS at the moment. Hung parliament.

    It wasn't that long ago the old VHS I had from 1990 of Vic Reeves Big Night Out finally gave up the ghost. At the end the Channel 4 presenter quietly explained that Margaret Thatcher had resigned as prime minister and there would be a change of programming. Which was the first I'd heard of it - having been out all day and pre-internet/mobile/blah.
    (weird pedantism alert)

    1990 was not pre-Internet, technically. I first used my usual moniker on the Internet in about 1988 or 1989. What wasn't around was the WWW. Which is part of, but not, the Internet. I first used the WWW in abut 1993, in the ITC center at QMW in London. I think the browser was Mosaic. Before that it was Telnet, finger, pad, kermit, etc.

    (I can't even recall exactly what pad was...)
    But but but what about about Archie and Veronica and Usenet? And uuencode.

    (I've still got a big "guide to the internet" book from about 1993, somewhere.)
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,747
    HYUFD said:


    'Donald J. Trump

    @realDonaldTrump

    The big question to be answered is whether or not President Xi of China will mention the massive amount of support and “blood” that The United States of America gave to China in order to help it to secure its FREEDOM from a very unfriendly foreign invader. Many Americans died in China’s quest for Victory and Glory. I hope that they are rightfully Honored and Remembered for their Bravery and Sacrifice! May President Xi and the wonderful people of China have a great and lasting day of celebration. Please give my warmest regards to Vladimir Putin, and Kim Jong Un, as you conspire against The United States of America. PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP'
    https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/115137717177283585

    Trump does realise that the US backed the KMT not the Communists?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,674

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    Why does her Sons Trust need to own her share of the property? She could juat leave it to him in her will and the trust could pay for a life insurance policy sufficient to cover any IHT liability. That reads like shes just reduced his compensation by 160 grand to get herself a nice new pad and avoid 40 grand tax on it.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,940
    edited September 3
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2025/sep/03/two-tiktok-limit-loo-reduce-haemorrhoid-risk-doctors

    For those of us who like Twitter ...

    "After accounting for common risk factors for haemorrhoids such as older age, physical inactivity and low dietary fibre, toilet scrollers were 46% more likely to have piles than those who left their phone behind. More than a third (37%) of toilet scrollers spent more than five minutes on the lavatory compared with only 7% of those without phones.

    Reading on the toilet is nothing new, but Pasricha believes that the newspapers, magazines and books that once kept people occupied are no match for the likes of TikTok and Instagram. “The whole business model of these apps is to make you lose track of time,” she said. “Our pre-TikTok ancestors were just reading a newspaper or whatever they could find. It wasn’t distracting to the same level.”"

    How fortunate for me my toilet is, for some reason, a dead zone which cuts off all wifi, bluetooth, and other connections.
    Bit strange that sitting on the throne having completed ones business increases the risk - when the pushing is all done.

    Sounds awfully confounded data - why are these people spending a long time? Because they can't poo in the first place...
  • I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    Why does her Sons Trust need to own her share of the property? She could juat leave it to him in her will and the trust could pay for a life insurance policy sufficient to cover any IHT liability. That reads like shes just reduced his compensation by 160 grand to get herself a nice new pad and avoid 40 grand tax on it.
    Because it is the Telegraph I would wait for more details, but if true resignation or sacking is inevitable
  • carnforth said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    A I'd do that; and
    B She's fucked.
    IMHO I feel very sorry for her reading that Telegraph article.

    She had a horrific pregnancy/birth and

    Sources close to the Deputy Prime Minister claim she was given three separate pieces of legal advice from a conveyancer and two experts in trust law, all of which suggested the amount of stamp duty she paid was correct.

    But the Telegraph revelations last week had prompted her to re-examine that advice and to seek out a leading tax barrister, understood to Jonathan Peacock KC. He is thought to have reported back on Monday that the extra stamp duty should, in fact, have been paid.

    Sources suggested that had she waited a few months longer, until her son’s 18th birthday, she would not have owed the extra stamp duty because her ownership would have passed entirely to him.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,588

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    Full article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/2e5ce906093ae37e
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,259

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    Why does her Sons Trust need to own her share of the property? She could juat leave it to him in her will and the trust could pay for a life insurance policy sufficient to cover any IHT liability. That reads like shes just reduced his compensation by 160 grand to get herself a nice new pad and avoid 40 grand tax on it.
    All sorts of reasons.

    1. She could be short of cash or even bankrupt at death.
    2. She could remarry, with implications for the disposal of her assets.
    3. She could grow old and even non compos herself.
    4. THis way, it avoids the insurance payments you suggest - not cheap (and possibly not permissible for such a trust).
    5. Remember there was a divorce.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,726

    carnforth said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    A I'd do that; and
    B She's fucked.
    IMHO I feel very sorry for her reading that Telegraph article.

    She had a horrific pregnancy/birth and

    Sources close to the Deputy Prime Minister claim she was given three separate pieces of legal advice from a conveyancer and two experts in trust law, all of which suggested the amount of stamp duty she paid was correct.

    But the Telegraph revelations last week had prompted her to re-examine that advice and to seek out a leading tax barrister, understood to Jonathan Peacock KC. He is thought to have reported back on Monday that the extra stamp duty should, in fact, have been paid.

    Sources suggested that had she waited a few months longer, until her son’s 18th birthday, she would not have owed the extra stamp duty because her ownership would have passed entirely to him.
    As I said earlier. It seems she took legal advice and it was shit.

    Who amongst can throw a stone on that basis?
  • HYUFD said:


    'Donald J. Trump

    @realDonaldTrump

    The big question to be answered is whether or not President Xi of China will mention the massive amount of support and “blood” that The United States of America gave to China in order to help it to secure its FREEDOM from a very unfriendly foreign invader. Many Americans died in China’s quest for Victory and Glory. I hope that they are rightfully Honored and Remembered for their Bravery and Sacrifice! May President Xi and the wonderful people of China have a great and lasting day of celebration. Please give my warmest regards to Vladimir Putin, and Kim Jong Un, as you conspire against The United States of America. PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP'
    https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/115137717177283585

    Trump does realise that the US backed the KMT not the Communists?
    During ze War, the KMT and the Commies had a truce.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,179

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    i have a funny story

    A Gazette editor just texted me to say he's run into a TV personality in NYC, in a studio

    She's not very well known now, but she was once really quite famous. Older PB-ers, ie 87% of us, will definitely know her

    Anyway the subject moved on to ME, because she said she'd read my stuff, and did the editor know that she and me went on a date? The editor said No, so she explained how the date went (not very well, I seemed "troubled"). She told my editor how she'd researched me before, so she knew what to expect, but still found me "unexpected"

    Here is the kicker. I don't remember this date. It clearly happened (why would she make this up??) but I do not remember a date. With a fairly famous TV presenter. I must have been so off my tits on drugs it goet erased in the mess

    Was it Judith Chalmers?

    I was infatuated with Anna Ford (in a fairly pure way) when an adolescent. It sort of intensified when I learned she was the wife/widow of Mark Boxer.
    Yeah, but did you go on a date with Anna Ford, when you were so fucked up on heroin you didn't even realise it was a date, and then you forgot it anyway?
    No, nor with Judith.
    I did catch a glimpse of the fragrant Anna in Chelsea in the mid 80s but by then the fire had died down.
    To unite two strands when I was just out of uni and drifting I worked as a security person on a big Picasso exhibition at the Hayward, just STEM me plus a load of art students were the team, fish out of water, and one evening there was a private viewing for the incredibly crushable Francesca Annis, and she smiled at me, straight at me.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,683

    carnforth said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    A I'd do that; and
    B She's fucked.
    IMHO I feel very sorry for her reading that Telegraph article.

    She had a horrific pregnancy/birth and

    Sources close to the Deputy Prime Minister claim she was given three separate pieces of legal advice from a conveyancer and two experts in trust law, all of which suggested the amount of stamp duty she paid was correct.

    But the Telegraph revelations last week had prompted her to re-examine that advice and to seek out a leading tax barrister, understood to Jonathan Peacock KC. He is thought to have reported back on Monday that the extra stamp duty should, in fact, have been paid.

    Sources suggested that had she waited a few months longer, until her son’s 18th birthday, she would not have owed the extra stamp duty because her ownership would have passed entirely to him.
    As I said earlier. It seems she took legal advice and it was shit.

    Who amongst can throw a stone on that basis?
    Written quite plainly on the government's website:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/stamp-duty-land-tax-buying-an-additional-residential-property

    Include any residential property that:

    is owned on behalf of children under the age of 18 (parents are treated as the owners even if the property is held through a trust and they are not the trustees)


    Quite how three experts got this wrong is beyond me.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,857
    edited September 3

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    Surely the coup de grace

    Edit to add: given the tragic details I think the public might forgive her if she takes the rap now. And resigns. And then she could come back in a year - like Lord Peter M

    But she simply can’t continue as housing minister. If she tries to struggle on it will be dismal and erode the entire government
  • MattW said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    Full article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/2e5ce906093ae37e
    £650,000 mortgage on Hove flat as well
  • Awful accident in Lisbon: 15 dead after a funicular (inclined railway) crash.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cpqnnllppnpt

    Edit: I think this is it:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascensor_da_Glória

    Sad news indeed. Never been to Portugal, but in 2019 I did the funicular in Barcelona, going up towards the Olympic stadium.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,259
    Leon said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    Surely the coup de grace
    An adapted house, the share sold at or below market price?

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,940

    MattW said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    Full article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/2e5ce906093ae37e
    £650,000 mortgage on Hove flat as well
    That does seem rather bold for a politician subject to the whims of the electorate, even on her salary.
  • Carnyx said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    Why does her Sons Trust need to own her share of the property? She could juat leave it to him in her will and the trust could pay for a life insurance policy sufficient to cover any IHT liability. That reads like shes just reduced his compensation by 160 grand to get herself a nice new pad and avoid 40 grand tax on it.
    All sorts of reasons.

    1. She could be short of cash or even bankrupt at death.
    2. She could remarry, with implications for the disposal of her assets.
    3. She could grow old and even non compos herself.
    4. THis way, it avoids the insurance payments you suggest - not cheap (and possibly not permissible for such a trust).
    5. Remember there was a divorce.

    JohnO knows about this, but the reason I broke up with my girlfriend was there was no way to easily unpick the trust I have set up for my kids.

    As much as I loved her, my kids are my sole focus and point 3) was also an issue.

    On point 4) I do know for some politicians they are considered uninsurable and secondly if they are some policies are voided if there is terrorism involved.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,086
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    i have a funny story

    A Gazette editor just texted me to say he's run into a TV personality in NYC, in a studio

    She's not very well known now, but she was once really quite famous. Older PB-ers, ie 87% of us, will definitely know her

    Anyway the subject moved on to ME, because she said she'd read my stuff, and did the editor know that she and me went on a date? The editor said No, so she explained how the date went (not very well, I seemed "troubled"). She told my editor how she'd researched me before, so she knew what to expect, but still found me "unexpected"

    Here is the kicker. I don't remember this date. It clearly happened (why would she make this up??) but I do not remember a date. With a fairly famous TV presenter. I must have been so off my tits on drugs it goet erased in the mess

    I’m thinking it was Susan Boyle.
    Katie Boyle ?
    No, Susan…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Boyle
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,007

    carnforth said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    A I'd do that; and
    B She's fucked.
    IMHO I feel very sorry for her reading that Telegraph article.

    She had a horrific pregnancy/birth and

    Sources close to the Deputy Prime Minister claim she was given three separate pieces of legal advice from a conveyancer and two experts in trust law, all of which suggested the amount of stamp duty she paid was correct.

    But the Telegraph revelations last week had prompted her to re-examine that advice and to seek out a leading tax barrister, understood to Jonathan Peacock KC. He is thought to have reported back on Monday that the extra stamp duty should, in fact, have been paid.

    Sources suggested that had she waited a few months longer, until her son’s 18th birthday, she would not have owed the extra stamp duty because her ownership would have passed entirely to him.
    As I said earlier. It seems she took legal advice and it was shit.

    Who amongst can throw a stone on that basis?
    Lucy Connolly might sympathise.
    Though probably not.
  • carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    Full article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/2e5ce906093ae37e
    £650,000 mortgage on Hove flat as well
    That does seem rather bold for a politician subject to the whims of the electorate, even on her salary.
    I have no idea who was giving her advice on this whole saga, and also how it looks to the electorate
  • Awful accident in Lisbon: 15 dead after a funicular (inclined railway) crash.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cpqnnllppnpt

    Edit: I think this is it:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascensor_da_Glória

    Sad news indeed. Never been to Portugal, but in 2019 I did the funicular in Barcelona, going up towards the Olympic stadium.
    I have and know the funicular well

    Terrible loss of life
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,726
    Factoid of the day:

    North Sea gas is FOUR times less carbon intensive than the imported LNG that we are now increasingly using.

    Guardian

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,007
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    i have a funny story

    A Gazette editor just texted me to say he's run into a TV personality in NYC, in a studio

    She's not very well known now, but she was once really quite famous. Older PB-ers, ie 87% of us, will definitely know her

    Anyway the subject moved on to ME, because she said she'd read my stuff, and did the editor know that she and me went on a date? The editor said No, so she explained how the date went (not very well, I seemed "troubled"). She told my editor how she'd researched me before, so she knew what to expect, but still found me "unexpected"

    Here is the kicker. I don't remember this date. It clearly happened (why would she make this up??) but I do not remember a date. With a fairly famous TV presenter. I must have been so off my tits on drugs it goet erased in the mess

    Was it Judith Chalmers?

    I was infatuated with Anna Ford (in a fairly pure way) when an adolescent. It sort of intensified when I learned she was the wife/widow of Mark Boxer.
    Yeah, but did you go on a date with Anna Ford, when you were so fucked up on heroin you didn't even realise it was a date, and then you forgot it anyway?
    No, nor with Judith.
    I did catch a glimpse of the fragrant Anna in Chelsea in the mid 80s but by then the fire had died down.
    To unite two strands when I was just out of uni and drifting I worked as a security person on a big Picasso exhibition at the Hayward, just STEM me plus a load of art students were the team, fish out of water, and one evening there was a private viewing for the incredibly crushable Francesca Annis, and she smiled at me, straight at me.
    Good one, Francesca was a stunner. Diana Quick was another one of that generation.

    Welcome to the old farts’ nostalgic letching club.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,857
    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    A I'd do that; and
    B She's fucked.
    IMHO I feel very sorry for her reading that Telegraph article.

    She had a horrific pregnancy/birth and

    Sources close to the Deputy Prime Minister claim she was given three separate pieces of legal advice from a conveyancer and two experts in trust law, all of which suggested the amount of stamp duty she paid was correct.

    But the Telegraph revelations last week had prompted her to re-examine that advice and to seek out a leading tax barrister, understood to Jonathan Peacock KC. He is thought to have reported back on Monday that the extra stamp duty should, in fact, have been paid.

    Sources suggested that had she waited a few months longer, until her son’s 18th birthday, she would not have owed the extra stamp duty because her ownership would have passed entirely to him.
    As I said earlier. It seems she took legal advice and it was shit.

    Who amongst can throw a stone on that basis?
    Written quite plainly on the government's website:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/stamp-duty-land-tax-buying-an-additional-residential-property

    Include any residential property that:

    is owned on behalf of children under the age of 18 (parents are treated as the owners even if the property is held through a trust and they are not the trustees)


    Quite how three experts got this wrong is beyond me.
    Yes. I’m somewhat suspicious of her latest explanation

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,179
    MattW said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    Full article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/2e5ce906093ae37e
    That is so jaundiced that I think she has a duty to stay.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,674
    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    A I'd do that; and
    B She's fucked.
    IMHO I feel very sorry for her reading that Telegraph article.

    She had a horrific pregnancy/birth and

    Sources close to the Deputy Prime Minister claim she was given three separate pieces of legal advice from a conveyancer and two experts in trust law, all of which suggested the amount of stamp duty she paid was correct.

    But the Telegraph revelations last week had prompted her to re-examine that advice and to seek out a leading tax barrister, understood to Jonathan Peacock KC. He is thought to have reported back on Monday that the extra stamp duty should, in fact, have been paid.

    Sources suggested that had she waited a few months longer, until her son’s 18th birthday, she would not have owed the extra stamp duty because her ownership would have passed entirely to him.
    As I said earlier. It seems she took legal advice and it was shit.

    Who amongst can throw a stone on that basis?
    Written quite plainly on the government's website:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/stamp-duty-land-tax-buying-an-additional-residential-property

    Include any residential property that:

    is owned on behalf of children under the age of 18 (parents are treated as the owners even if the property is held through a trust and they are not the trustees)


    Quite how three experts got this wrong is beyond me.
    Depends what info she coughed up. They can only advise on what they know. And why take 3 opinions? Its like she knew damn well it was wrong.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,259
    edited September 3

    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    A I'd do that; and
    B She's fucked.
    IMHO I feel very sorry for her reading that Telegraph article.

    She had a horrific pregnancy/birth and

    Sources close to the Deputy Prime Minister claim she was given three separate pieces of legal advice from a conveyancer and two experts in trust law, all of which suggested the amount of stamp duty she paid was correct.

    But the Telegraph revelations last week had prompted her to re-examine that advice and to seek out a leading tax barrister, understood to Jonathan Peacock KC. He is thought to have reported back on Monday that the extra stamp duty should, in fact, have been paid.

    Sources suggested that had she waited a few months longer, until her son’s 18th birthday, she would not have owed the extra stamp duty because her ownership would have passed entirely to him.
    As I said earlier. It seems she took legal advice and it was shit.

    Who amongst can throw a stone on that basis?
    Written quite plainly on the government's website:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/stamp-duty-land-tax-buying-an-additional-residential-property

    Include any residential property that:

    is owned on behalf of children under the age of 18 (parents are treated as the owners even if the property is held through a trust and they are not the trustees)


    Quite how three experts got this wrong is beyond me.
    Depends what info she coughed up. They can only advise on what they know. And why take 3 opinions? Its like she knew damn well it was wrong.
    Three opinions? Two different specialities, remember, and asking twice over two experts in trust law should be more than most people woudl ever do. Especially if they were in the same law firm.

    Remember - if two agree, then there's no point in going further, unless you are willing to pay three more. Think about it: how many does one need to get a majority?

    I had to sort out the CGT on a relative's house when I was the executor, and got the CGT specialist in my law firm to do it, beside the conveyancer and the family law chap that I used, but it would never have occurred to me to get another one in.
  • Factoid of the day:

    North Sea gas is FOUR times less carbon intensive than the imported LNG that we are now increasingly using.

    Guardian

    As I understand it the challenge is getting enough gas from the North Sea at a viable price. ReFUK want to replace wind with gas tomorrow. Even if we manage to extract more gas we will be importing more.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,674
    Various outlets now running with variations of 'used her disabled sons compensation to buy her second home'. Regardless of the details and how brutal an interpretation, once that idea seeps into the public consciousness.......
    No way back from it. Ill be surprised if she hasnt resigned by lunchtime tomorrow.
    Very grim.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,711

    Foss said:

    Taz said:

    Sadly not Bam Bam.
    Or Robert Bigelow
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigelow_Aerospace

    Who, despite his rather odd views, developed something that is still (AIUI) on the International Space Station to this day.
    I wonder how big a Transhab you could stuff in a Starship?
    Hoop stress would be a big issue: the greater the diameter of a pressurised cylinder, the greater the stresses in the cylinder walls. which is why you generally don't get pressurised cylinders with very large diameters. And when you do, they have very thick (and hence heavy) walls.
    The biggest inflatable space station modules tested are gigantic.

    IIRC some test modules have been built to 16m diameter.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,179

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    i have a funny story

    A Gazette editor just texted me to say he's run into a TV personality in NYC, in a studio

    She's not very well known now, but she was once really quite famous. Older PB-ers, ie 87% of us, will definitely know her

    Anyway the subject moved on to ME, because she said she'd read my stuff, and did the editor know that she and me went on a date? The editor said No, so she explained how the date went (not very well, I seemed "troubled"). She told my editor how she'd researched me before, so she knew what to expect, but still found me "unexpected"

    Here is the kicker. I don't remember this date. It clearly happened (why would she make this up??) but I do not remember a date. With a fairly famous TV presenter. I must have been so off my tits on drugs it goet erased in the mess

    Was it Judith Chalmers?

    I was infatuated with Anna Ford (in a fairly pure way) when an adolescent. It sort of intensified when I learned she was the wife/widow of Mark Boxer.
    Yeah, but did you go on a date with Anna Ford, when you were so fucked up on heroin you didn't even realise it was a date, and then you forgot it anyway?
    No, nor with Judith.
    I did catch a glimpse of the fragrant Anna in Chelsea in the mid 80s but by then the fire had died down.
    To unite two strands when I was just out of uni and drifting I worked as a security person on a big Picasso exhibition at the Hayward, just STEM me plus a load of art students were the team, fish out of water, and one evening there was a private viewing for the incredibly crushable Francesca Annis, and she smiled at me, straight at me.
    Good one, Francesca was a stunner. Diana Quick was another one of that generation.

    Welcome to the old farts’ nostalgic letching club.
    I didn't letch, I just kind of wobbled on the spot. The ultimate glamorous older woman. She was 36.
  • Rayner's new boyfriend has had his own curious housing issues:

    Tarry was a Labour Party councillor for Chadwell Heath ward, in the London Borough of Barking and Dagenham, from 2010 to 2018. Tarry was criticised for allegedly living in his home in Brighton, which is 70 miles away from his then council seat in Barking and Dagenham. He was investigated by police for electoral fraud in relation to this matter, and was cleared by the police investigation, as he was found to own a second home in Barking and Dagenham, and therefore was legally resident in Barking and Dagenham at the time of his election.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Tarry

    I wonder how many Labour politicians have multiple homes compared to say how many have ever run a business or indeed even worked in the private sector.

    Incidentally does anyone know why Sam Tarry was deselected by Labour in 2024 ?

    Tarry was replaced as Ilford South MP by Jas Athwal - yet another Labour MP with multiple, and complicated, home ownership:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jas_Athwal
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,330

    Factoid of the day:

    North Sea gas is FOUR times less carbon intensive than the imported LNG that we are now increasingly using.

    Guardian

    As I understand it the challenge is getting enough gas from the North Sea at a viable price. ReFUK want to replace wind with gas tomorrow. Even if we manage to extract more gas we will be importing more.
    It's Ed Miliband who is subsidising new build CCGT plants. Plus blue hydrogen. Locking in demand for imported LNG.
  • Rayner's new boyfriend has had his own curious housing issues:

    Tarry was a Labour Party councillor for Chadwell Heath ward, in the London Borough of Barking and Dagenham, from 2010 to 2018. Tarry was criticised for allegedly living in his home in Brighton, which is 70 miles away from his then council seat in Barking and Dagenham. He was investigated by police for electoral fraud in relation to this matter, and was cleared by the police investigation, as he was found to own a second home in Barking and Dagenham, and therefore was legally resident in Barking and Dagenham at the time of his election.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Tarry

    I wonder how many Labour politicians have multiple homes compared to say how many have ever run a business or indeed even worked in the private sector.

    Incidentally does anyone know why Sam Tarry was deselected by Labour in 2024 ?

    Tarry was replaced as Ilford South MP by Jas Athwal - yet another Labour MP with multiple, and complicated, home ownership:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jas_Athwal

    He was a temp.

    In 2019 Jas Athwal was going to be the candidate but was suspended due sexual harassment allegations had to stand down as the Ilford South candidate, when he was cleared he and his supporters wanted him back.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,007
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    i have a funny story

    A Gazette editor just texted me to say he's run into a TV personality in NYC, in a studio

    She's not very well known now, but she was once really quite famous. Older PB-ers, ie 87% of us, will definitely know her

    Anyway the subject moved on to ME, because she said she'd read my stuff, and did the editor know that she and me went on a date? The editor said No, so she explained how the date went (not very well, I seemed "troubled"). She told my editor how she'd researched me before, so she knew what to expect, but still found me "unexpected"

    Here is the kicker. I don't remember this date. It clearly happened (why would she make this up??) but I do not remember a date. With a fairly famous TV presenter. I must have been so off my tits on drugs it goet erased in the mess

    Was it Judith Chalmers?

    I was infatuated with Anna Ford (in a fairly pure way) when an adolescent. It sort of intensified when I learned she was the wife/widow of Mark Boxer.
    Yeah, but did you go on a date with Anna Ford, when you were so fucked up on heroin you didn't even realise it was a date, and then you forgot it anyway?
    No, nor with Judith.
    I did catch a glimpse of the fragrant Anna in Chelsea in the mid 80s but by then the fire had died down.
    To unite two strands when I was just out of uni and drifting I worked as a security person on a big Picasso exhibition at the Hayward, just STEM me plus a load of art students were the team, fish out of water, and one evening there was a private viewing for the incredibly crushable Francesca Annis, and she smiled at me, straight at me.
    Good one, Francesca was a stunner. Diana Quick was another one of that generation.

    Welcome to the old farts’ nostalgic letching club.
    I didn't letch, I just kind of wobbled on the spot. The ultimate glamorous older woman. She was 36.
    Well, letching is a bit strong. Wistful memory of a time when one could be knocked off one’s feet by a glance from a woman perhaps (or her reading the news).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,726
    Whatever one may think of Rayner she has certainly had quite a life.

    If she does become leader there'll be a biog film at some point I suspect.

  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,907
    edited September 3

    carnforth said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    A I'd do that; and
    B She's fucked.
    IMHO I feel very sorry for her reading that Telegraph article.

    She had a horrific pregnancy/birth and

    Sources close to the Deputy Prime Minister claim she was given three separate pieces of legal advice from a conveyancer and two experts in trust law, all of which suggested the amount of stamp duty she paid was correct.

    But the Telegraph revelations last week had prompted her to re-examine that advice and to seek out a leading tax barrister, understood to Jonathan Peacock KC. He is thought to have reported back on Monday that the extra stamp duty should, in fact, have been paid.

    Sources suggested that had she waited a few months longer, until her son’s 18th birthday, she would not have owed the extra stamp duty because her ownership would have passed entirely to him.
    As I said earlier. It seems she took legal advice and it was shit.

    Who amongst can throw a stone on that basis?
    It does seem that she has been horrendously, spectacularly unlucky if the statement about approaching two separate trust lawyers for advice is true.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,259
    edited September 3

    Various outlets now running with variations of 'used her disabled sons compensation to buy her second home'. Regardless of the details and how brutal an interpretation, once that idea seeps into the public consciousness.......
    No way back from it. Ill be surprised if she hasnt resigned by lunchtime tomorrow.
    Very grim.

    I don't like this business of interpreting actions in the worst possible light. Politics would be better if we didn't immediately assume the worst of everyone unless there is a long pattern of poor behaviour.

    In this case I would have some sympathy as all of the actions seem reasonable except for not paying the tax through what I assume to be ignorance.


    But. But...

    Ms Rayner herself has never shown any sympathy nor given any benefit of the doubt to the Tories. They are all 'scum', it seems. So why should she expect any quarter at all?


    Toast.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,907
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    A I'd do that; and
    B She's fucked.
    IMHO I feel very sorry for her reading that Telegraph article.

    She had a horrific pregnancy/birth and

    Sources close to the Deputy Prime Minister claim she was given three separate pieces of legal advice from a conveyancer and two experts in trust law, all of which suggested the amount of stamp duty she paid was correct.

    But the Telegraph revelations last week had prompted her to re-examine that advice and to seek out a leading tax barrister, understood to Jonathan Peacock KC. He is thought to have reported back on Monday that the extra stamp duty should, in fact, have been paid.

    Sources suggested that had she waited a few months longer, until her son’s 18th birthday, she would not have owed the extra stamp duty because her ownership would have passed entirely to him.
    As I said earlier. It seems she took legal advice and it was shit.

    Who amongst can throw a stone on that basis?
    Written quite plainly on the government's website:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/stamp-duty-land-tax-buying-an-additional-residential-property

    Include any residential property that:

    is owned on behalf of children under the age of 18 (parents are treated as the owners even if the property is held through a trust and they are not the trustees)


    Quite how three experts got this wrong is beyond me.
    Yes. I’m somewhat suspicious of her latest explanation

    Not unreasonably, but on the other hand if she knew it was going to be a problem, why not wait until her child was 18 & the tax liability would disappear? It’s clear (I think) that she genuinely didn’t know she was liable for the higher rate - the question is whether she was misled by her lawyers or was “recklessly ignorant” as one might put it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,726
    Sean_F said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    It’s a bad headline, but also, a mendacious one. The trust got an asset equivalent in value to the sum that it paid.
    Yep.

    I'm with Davey on this one.

  • Sean_F said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    It’s a bad headline, but also, a mendacious one. The trust got an asset equivalent in value to the sum that it paid.
    Yep.

    I'm with Davey on this one.

    That's where I am leaning too.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,115
    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    A I'd do that; and
    B She's fucked.
    IMHO I feel very sorry for her reading that Telegraph article.

    She had a horrific pregnancy/birth and

    Sources close to the Deputy Prime Minister claim she was given three separate pieces of legal advice from a conveyancer and two experts in trust law, all of which suggested the amount of stamp duty she paid was correct.

    But the Telegraph revelations last week had prompted her to re-examine that advice and to seek out a leading tax barrister, understood to Jonathan Peacock KC. He is thought to have reported back on Monday that the extra stamp duty should, in fact, have been paid.

    Sources suggested that had she waited a few months longer, until her son’s 18th birthday, she would not have owed the extra stamp duty because her ownership would have passed entirely to him.
    As I said earlier. It seems she took legal advice and it was shit.

    Who amongst can throw a stone on that basis?
    Written quite plainly on the government's website:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/stamp-duty-land-tax-buying-an-additional-residential-property

    Include any residential property that:

    is owned on behalf of children under the age of 18 (parents are treated as the owners even if the property is held through a trust and they are not the trustees)


    Quite how three experts got this wrong is beyond me.
    Yes. I’m somewhat suspicious of her latest explanation

    Not unreasonably, but on the other hand if she knew it was going to be a problem, why not wait until her child was 18 & the tax liability would disappear? It’s clear (I think) that she genuinely didn’t know she was liable for the higher rate - the question is whether she was misled by her lawyers or was “recklessly ignorant” as one might put it.
    Divorce?
  • RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    A I'd do that; and
    B She's fucked.
    IMHO I feel very sorry for her reading that Telegraph article.

    She had a horrific pregnancy/birth and

    Sources close to the Deputy Prime Minister claim she was given three separate pieces of legal advice from a conveyancer and two experts in trust law, all of which suggested the amount of stamp duty she paid was correct.

    But the Telegraph revelations last week had prompted her to re-examine that advice and to seek out a leading tax barrister, understood to Jonathan Peacock KC. He is thought to have reported back on Monday that the extra stamp duty should, in fact, have been paid.

    Sources suggested that had she waited a few months longer, until her son’s 18th birthday, she would not have owed the extra stamp duty because her ownership would have passed entirely to him.
    As I said earlier. It seems she took legal advice and it was shit.

    Who amongst can throw a stone on that basis?
    Written quite plainly on the government's website:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/stamp-duty-land-tax-buying-an-additional-residential-property

    Include any residential property that:

    is owned on behalf of children under the age of 18 (parents are treated as the owners even if the property is held through a trust and they are not the trustees)


    Quite how three experts got this wrong is beyond me.
    Well if one was Rachel Reeves, the second was Jonathan Reynolds and maybe the third was Keir himself. Not difficult to understand at all. Sorry, the fear and worry this evil lot have put in the Farming Sector this last twelve months I have less than zero fucks of sympathy for her, or any of them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,857
    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Who else have I dated and simply forgotten?

    I probably had a Swissnick with a young Natassja Kinski and an even younger Michelle Pfeiffer, and it's simply vanished. The memory

    Looking back, I am now fairly sure that happened. Yes

    For what it’s worth, I found you to be a kind and affectionate lover.
    That’s properly funny. Also slightly unsettling

    🥂
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,857
    The headlines for Rayner are awful. She’s gone

    Either now or in a few weeks as the corrosion eats away

    If she goes now she may get a second act. Madness to cling on
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,932
    edited September 3

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    i have a funny story

    A Gazette editor just texted me to say he's run into a TV personality in NYC, in a studio

    She's not very well known now, but she was once really quite famous. Older PB-ers, ie 87% of us, will definitely know her

    Anyway the subject moved on to ME, because she said she'd read my stuff, and did the editor know that she and me went on a date? The editor said No, so she explained how the date went (not very well, I seemed "troubled"). She told my editor how she'd researched me before, so she knew what to expect, but still found me "unexpected"

    Here is the kicker. I don't remember this date. It clearly happened (why would she make this up??) but I do not remember a date. With a fairly famous TV presenter. I must have been so off my tits on drugs it goet erased in the mess

    Was it Judith Chalmers?

    I was infatuated with Anna Ford (in a fairly pure way) when an adolescent. It sort of intensified when I learned she was the wife/widow of Mark Boxer.
    Yeah, but did you go on a date with Anna Ford, when you were so fucked up on heroin you didn't even realise it was a date, and then you forgot it anyway?
    No, nor with Judith.
    I did catch a glimpse of the fragrant Anna in Chelsea in the mid 80s but by then the fire had died down.
    To unite two strands when I was just out of uni and drifting I worked as a security person on a big Picasso exhibition at the Hayward, just STEM me plus a load of art students were the team, fish out of water, and one evening there was a private viewing for the incredibly crushable Francesca Annis, and she smiled at me, straight at me.
    Good one, Francesca was a stunner. Diana Quick was another one of that generation.

    Welcome to the old farts’ nostalgic letching club.
    I didn't letch, I just kind of wobbled on the spot. The ultimate glamorous older woman. She was 36.
    Well, letching is a bit strong. Wistful memory of a time when one could be knocked off one’s feet by a glance from a woman perhaps (or her reading the news).
    Going back to Judith: she was, it's reputed, very well known to quite a large number of the members of Burnage Rugby Club.

    Not me, I should add. I would have been in the under 8s at the time.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,142
    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Who else have I dated and simply forgotten?

    I probably had a Swissnick with a young Natassja Kinski and an even younger Michelle Pfeiffer, and it's simply vanished. The memory

    Looking back, I am now fairly sure that happened. Yes

    For what it’s worth, I found you to be a kind and affectionate lover.
    That’s properly funny. Also slightly unsettling

    🥂
    Unless Biggles is Michelle Pfeiffer...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,726

    Sean_F said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    It’s a bad headline, but also, a mendacious one. The trust got an asset equivalent in value to the sum that it paid.
    Yep.

    I'm with Davey on this one.

    That's where I am leaning too.
    Is this just centrist Dads or is it possible that out there beyond Tory rant media and X there is some understanding and sympathy?

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,674

    Sean_F said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    It’s a bad headline, but also, a mendacious one. The trust got an asset equivalent in value to the sum that it paid.
    Yep.

    I'm with Davey on this one.

    That's where I am leaning too.
    Im not
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,632
    The Independent front page is stronger than I’d have expected.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,857
    edited September 3

    Sean_F said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    It’s a bad headline, but also, a mendacious one. The trust got an asset equivalent in value to the sum that it paid.
    Yep.

    I'm with Davey on this one.

    That's where I am leaning too.
    Im not
    Me neither. She’s clearly lying. Enough

    Politically, I rather hope starmer clings on to her. It will ruin her career as she is housing minster. And cannot now say anything about housing without evoking cruel and mocking laughter. So her role as doughty honest leftwing torchbearer or truth is gone. A joke. A ghost

    She can never be PM

    What then is the point of her? What benefit does she bring, especially in her present role?

    She could have been a threat to Big Nige but as she is now so diminished, nope. Let her stay in office as a kind of open wound, suppurating. Even as further revelations emerge - or further hypocrisies from Ms “one rule for them” Rayner

    What a disaster for Labour. Phase 2 has begun
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,932

    Sean_F said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    It’s a bad headline, but also, a mendacious one. The trust got an asset equivalent in value to the sum that it paid.
    Yep.

    I'm with Davey on this one.

    That's where I am leaning too.
    Is this just centrist Dads or is it possible that out there beyond Tory rant media and X there is some understanding and sympathy?

    Well ordinarily, yes. But given Angela's a) hectoring on the subject of tax evoision, and b) Angela's keenness to stick the boot in when it is on the other foot, she's almost uniquely difficult to feel sorry for.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,086
    Leon said:

    The headlines for Rayner are awful. She’s gone

    Either now or in a few weeks as the corrosion eats away

    If she goes now she may get a second act. Madness to cling on

    How many times was Mandelson sacked? Three? Came back every time.
    I’m reminded of a scene in the modern Sherlock. The eponymous hero has ruined a planned operation masterminded by his brother, Mycroft. He is in disgrace and will go into exile. Beat. Phone call and he’s back…
    She goes now - tomorrow morning, exchange of letters etc. Brought back in the new year.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,726
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    It’s a bad headline, but also, a mendacious one. The trust got an asset equivalent in value to the sum that it paid.
    Yep.

    I'm with Davey on this one.

    That's where I am leaning too.
    Im not
    Me neither. She’s clearly lying. Enough
    We'll see.

    There's a process in play now.

    She says she can back up her claim that she acted on advice from tax types.

    If she can't do that then she is finished.

    But if she can then move on people.

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,067
    Leon said:

    The headlines for Rayner are awful. She’s gone

    Either now or in a few weeks as the corrosion eats away

    If she goes now she may get a second act. Madness to cling on

    If the ethics investigation clears her then I don’t think she’ll resign .
  • Sean_F said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    It’s a bad headline, but also, a mendacious one. The trust got an asset equivalent in value to the sum that it paid.
    Yep.

    I'm with Davey on this one.

    That's where I am leaning too.
    Im not
    The problem here is that the transaction was clearly in the interests of Angela Rayner as it allowed her to buy a new property in Hove. Was it in the interests of the son though?

    It seems to me there is a clear conflict of interest here between Angela Rayner's role as trustee and the fact she was also selling her portion of the house to the trust. It would be interesting to know if the trust took independent financial advice before making the purchase.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,674
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    It’s a bad headline, but also, a mendacious one. The trust got an asset equivalent in value to the sum that it paid.
    Yep.

    I'm with Davey on this one.

    That's where I am leaning too.
    Im not
    Me neither. She’s clearly lying. Enough
    She hasnt thrown a tomato or shouted at a civil service spodbert though. So there is that
  • Foss said:

    The Independent front page is stronger than I’d have expected.

    My litmus test is the front page of The Daily Star and it isn't good for her.

    https://x.com/AlfieTobutt/status/1963347678844391723
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,086

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Who else have I dated and simply forgotten?

    I probably had a Swissnick with a young Natassja Kinski and an even younger Michelle Pfeiffer, and it's simply vanished. The memory

    Looking back, I am now fairly sure that happened. Yes

    For what it’s worth, I found you to be a kind and affectionate lover.
    That’s properly funny. Also slightly unsettling

    🥂
    Unless Biggles is Michelle Pfeiffer...
    If that’s true then 3/9/25 would be even bigger than Nick Palmer night.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,932

    Foss said:

    The Independent front page is stronger than I’d have expected.

    My litmus test is the front page of The Daily Star and it isn't good for her.

    https://x.com/AlfieTobutt/status/1963347678844391723
    Not one of the Star's wittier headlines. I was hoping for better. But clear what view they're taking.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,505
    Previous comment on Farage, so the US congress have invited the leader of a political party that has banned the local newspaper to give evidence about restrictions on free speech in the UK?
  • Various outlets now running with variations of 'used her disabled sons compensation to buy her second home'. Regardless of the details and how brutal an interpretation, once that idea seeps into the public consciousness.......
    No way back from it. Ill be surprised if she hasnt resigned by lunchtime tomorrow.
    Very grim.

    That was the risk she ran when she deployed it as a defence.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,674

    Sean_F said:

    I think this headline is really bad for Angela Rayner, I know it is The Telegraph...

    Rayner used disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy second home

    Deputy Prime Minister sold share of her Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/03/rayner-used-disabled-son-nhs-compensation-buy-second-home/

    It’s a bad headline, but also, a mendacious one. The trust got an asset equivalent in value to the sum that it paid.
    Yep.

    I'm with Davey on this one.

    That's where I am leaning too.
    Im not
    The problem here is that the transaction was clearly in the interests of Angela Rayner as it allowed her to buy a new property in Hove. Was it in the interests of the son though?

    It seems to me there is a clear conflict of interest here between Angela Rayner's role as trustee and the fact she was also selling her portion of the house to the trust. It would be interesting to know if the trust took independent financial advice before making the purchase.
    She still has the property she 'sold' as her primary residence and control over its destiny as trustee of the main equity holder
    And a pad in Hove
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,854
    Dopermean said:

    Previous comment on Farage, so the US congress have invited the leader of a political party that has banned the local newspaper to give evidence about restrictions on free speech in the UK?

    He had his ass handed to him in the room, but luckily outside the Geebies were on hand to rub his belly
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,726
    Fecking hell, Ocado have sent me a Xmas shopping email:


    "If you’re already dreaming of your first mince pie, you’ve come to the right place. We’ve opened our Christmas Shop so you can start stocking up on all the things that make the festive season magical for everyone..."


    These people need stopping.

    When is the law going to be changed to outlaw this?

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,674

    Fecking hell, Ocado have sent me a Xmas shopping email:


    "If you’re already dreaming of your first mince pie, you’ve come to the right place. We’ve opened our Christmas Shop so you can start stocking up on all the things that make the festive season magical for everyone..."


    These people need stopping.

    When is the law going to be changed to outlaw this?

    Keep the season in your heart all year long dear boy
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,854

    Fecking hell, Ocado have sent me a Xmas shopping email:


    "If you’re already dreaming of your first mince pie, you’ve come to the right place. We’ve opened our Christmas Shop so you can start stocking up on all the things that make the festive season magical for everyone..."


    These people need stopping.

    When is the law going to be changed to outlaw this?

    I bought an advent calendar on Monday
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,307

    Fecking hell, Ocado have sent me a Xmas shopping email:


    "If you’re already dreaming of your first mince pie, you’ve come to the right place. We’ve opened our Christmas Shop so you can start stocking up on all the things that make the festive season magical for everyone..."


    These people need stopping.

    When is the law going to be changed to outlaw this?

    One of my local pubs has just installed both Christmas and Halloween adverts, including those ridiculous Christmas trolls with the long white beards.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,726
    Andy_JS said:

    Fecking hell, Ocado have sent me a Xmas shopping email:


    "If you’re already dreaming of your first mince pie, you’ve come to the right place. We’ve opened our Christmas Shop so you can start stocking up on all the things that make the festive season magical for everyone..."


    These people need stopping.

    When is the law going to be changed to outlaw this?

    One of my local pubs has just installed both Christmas and Halloween adverts, including those ridiculous Christmas trolls with the long white beards.
    This has to be stopped.

    No wonder children are queuing to see mental health professionals. The seasons and the days should be enjoyed as they come.

    The kids living around me literally started the autumn term today. Now they are being told to get excited about xmas.

    Enough.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,726
    Scott_xP said:

    Fecking hell, Ocado have sent me a Xmas shopping email:


    "If you’re already dreaming of your first mince pie, you’ve come to the right place. We’ve opened our Christmas Shop so you can start stocking up on all the things that make the festive season magical for everyone..."


    These people need stopping.

    When is the law going to be changed to outlaw this?

    I bought an advent calendar on Monday
    Traitor.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,674

    I propose a simple one line Bill.

    No advertisement, promotion, entreatment, inducement or related commercial activity in relation to the 25th December shall take place before the 6th November.

    Merry Christmas. My tree will be up on Nov 1st as always
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,674
    No planning your summer holidays until Late Spring bank holiday peons!
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,327
    Has Rayner caused Twitter to crash?

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,854
    edited September 3
    dr_spyn said:

    Has Rayner caused Twitter to crash?

    Yes.

    Just like a Tesla...

    Or a Starship
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,726
    Cookie said:

    Foss said:

    The Independent front page is stronger than I’d have expected.

    My litmus test is the front page of The Daily Star and it isn't good for her.

    https://x.com/AlfieTobutt/status/1963347678844391723
    Not one of the Star's wittier headlines. I was hoping for better. But clear what view they're taking.
    She is not depicted as a wilting salad vegetable so I conclude she is safe.

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,940
    Foss said:

    The Independent front page is stronger than I’d have expected.

    Housing's expensive. People care a lot. Especially people who rent.
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