If not tow backs then the British government will have to do something.
As a noted PB-er not so long ago pointed out in a whole post on the matter, it is not the measly numbers (although growing) that is the issue, it is that these boats are the most visible and literal (hi Leon) manifestation of the government's lack of control. Over our borders in this instance and, people will inevitably extrapolate, over other parts of the economy also.
Is why it's so dangerous.
As for practical measures to stop them? F**k knows.
It is doing something. The August weather has been glorious. Perfect for small boat crossings. And yet Lowest number of people in small boats since 2021 Lowest number of boat crossings since 2019
According to the FT this is because the flow of migrants was stopped at the Bulgarian border, for a while, and this temporary ripple finally reached our shores
If that’s true we can expect them to resume. If it is true that may explain why HMG is not crowing about its success - they don’t expect it to last
Sure! But its compare and contrast: Hard right: WE ARE BEING OVERWHELMED WITH NEW ARRIVALS Reality: New arrivals at their lowest level in years
There is a long term problem, not the immediate crisis being whipped up by racist nutters.
Mr @Dura_Ace also misunderstands the word “approbation”. It means “formal or enthusiastic approval”. The sentence “approbation and sanctions” is therefore nonsense
The posh word he is forlornly seeking is “disapprobation” = “formal or severe disapproval”
I suspect autocorrect had a hand in the minor solecism.
As for Leon's piteous whine about his sadly diminished attention span, the first two sentences could have been written just for him.
In two significant ways, Reform UK supporters, and that subset which knows how to hold a writing implement and thus become Reform UK voters, are like senior military officers. First, they only want to hear things that they already know to be true. Second, they assume that anything they don’t personally understand must be simple.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
A definition of dependant gives:
a person who relies on another, especially a family member, for financial support.
Of course many of these 'dependants' aren't relying on a family member for financial support but on British taxpayers.
The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed.
I disagree that the boats are going to be the “defining issue of the next election”
The next GE could be four years away. Just think what’s happened in the last five years….
Exactly
It’s more than likely that the boats will be sorted and finished one way or another by 2029, or overshadowed by several larger and more pressing issues
Labour must assume it will be the defining issue and sort it over next couple of years or it most certainly will be.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
This idea other countries don't take a share is bizarre.
Is there an issue with our prevailing southwesterly wind? If we dump migrants in life rafts just off France and they get blown into the shipping lanes, we just give the RNLI more work to do.
You might have to tow them further, around Brittany into the Bay of Biscay.
Pretty stormy in them parts, cap'n.
(One of the reasons for the surge in Channel boat crossings has been the marine engineering one; boats that are just strong enough to make it across the narrow bit of the Channel on a relatively nice day.)
Sure, but there are other suitable stretches of French coastline, the storminess might act as a future deterrent, and crossings mostly happen in the absence of storms for obvious reasons.
The point being that people keep on coming up with factors that any tow back scheme would have to address as though they are sufficient to make the scheme impossible, and it's a mode of debate that's become increasingly prevalent, but is really annoying when the supposed show-stopping impediments are relatively minor things that can be dealt with.
The question isn't whether it can be done, but whether it should be done, or whether there's a better way to tackle the problem.
I’m not going to wade through. 98 paragraphs of quasi-military crepitations first thing in the morning. If you can’t make an argument in five sentences, don’t make it
Next
TikTok brain. It's a good article and demonstrates the military babble BTL is a choice, not a condition.
I’m teasing @Dura_Ace as he has, in the past, been incredibly rude to other prolix commenters. The threader is informative and useful
His misuse of “approbation” is surprisingly poor form, however
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
Yes. And as a result we have a hard right party leading by 15 points in the polls
At what point do Woke wankers understand they are leading us to a very British kind of Nazism? You cannot bottle up and silence that fury forever. If we want our liberal democracy to endure, we are going to have to be very illiberal, for about a decade, on all matters to do with migration, asylum, integration, Islam, etc. That way democracy survives, there is no other way
What's more, just as Australia shows you CAN deal with boats, Denmark has shown that you CAN preserve your democracy and exclude the far right from power, if the centrist parties are willing to get suitably tough. But you really do have to be tough: Denmark demolishes ethnic ghettoes. It sends in the bulldozers. It ignores the pleas of lefty EU lawyers and gets on with the task
As a result the Danish far right has been reduced to a rump
Perhaps we should grow a pair and leave the United Nations Convention of the Law of the Sea if - as appears to be the case - it is taking precedence over the rights of the people of Epping.
I also love the takedown of "why can't we just tow them back - the Australians did". No, we can't because geography here and because the Aussies didn't tow migrant boats back. But apart from that, top idea...
Did we read the same article?
Dura outlines exactly how you could go about doing a tow back in the Channel. You tow out west to somewhere just over 12 miles from the French coast, but a lot further from the British coast. In the Bay of Biscay of you want to be extreme, or Brittany if minimalist.
A friend of mine nearly drowned in the Bay of Biscay. Took two French rescue helicopters to save them. First one dropped a guy in the water to help them, but then was damaged and had to leave everyone, so they floated in a liferaft until the second came.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I’m afraid the conversation has moved on . Reform and the Tories don’t want even genuine asylum seekers. If you’re non white and here legally you’re likely get more abuse as the atmosphere becomes even more toxic .
I do not accept your generalisation that conservatives dont want genuine asylum seekers and do not forget it was the conservatives who offered sanctuary to Ukranians and those from Hong Kong
Immigration into the UK has to be controlled, and it is not helpful for some to label those wanting the boats and migrants hotels to be stopped as far right and racist, because this has spread way beyond the far right to many in the population who just want fairness
Everyone, no matter their ethnicity, living here are integral to our community and if someone can stop the boats this issue will lanced
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
Even though the government made it difficult, 70,000 Jewish refugees reached Britain in the period between Hitler's rise to power and the start of WWII. Britain is now very proud of accepting these refugees, though wasn't so happy about it at the time.
So any sense that numbers would be less than a hundred is complete fantasy.
That said, the parallel does suggest that people are generally more accepting of refugees from a specific group where they are aware of the reasons why that group is fleeing to Britain. Thus @Casino_Royale talking about making an exception for refugees from Hong Kong and Ukraine.
The bad feeling arises in part because asylum seekers are presented as an undifferentiated horde from countries about which we know little.
I disagree that the boats are going to be the “defining issue of the next election”
The next GE could be four years away. Just think what’s happened in the last five years….
Exactly
It’s more than likely that the boats will be sorted and finished one way or another by 2029, or overshadowed by several larger and more pressing issues
Labour must assume it will be the defining issue and sort it over next couple of years or it most certainly will be.
Yes, that's a fair analysis
I just find it hard to believe we will still have 50,000 people annually coming over in boats in 2029. If we DO then it either means there is some war going on in mainland Europe, or Starmer's Labour are indeed the worst government in human history, and as a result will be outpolled at the next GE by Mebyon Kernow
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
Yes. And as a result we have a hard right party leading by 15 points in the polls
At what point do Woke wankers understand they are leading us to a very British kind of Nazism? You cannot bottle up and silence that fury forever. If we want our liberal democracy to endure, we are going to have to be very illiberal, for about a decade, on all matters to do with migration, asylum, integration, Islam, etc. That way democracy survives, there is no other way
What's more, just as Australia shows you CAN deal with boats, Denmark has shown that you CAN preserve your democracy and exclude the far right from power, if the centrist parties are willing to get suitably tough. But you really do have to be tough: Denmark demolishes ethnic ghettoes. It sends in the bulldozers. It ignores the pleas of lefty EU lawyers and gets on with the task
As a result the Danish far right has been reduced to a rump
Stop pretending that you're not excited by a very British kind of Nazism. Of course you and others will be loudly blaming Woke for that Nazism while ironing your black shorts.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
Especially when they see people who fled ‘persecution’ often go back to their countries of origin for holidays. 🤷♂️
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
More economically inactive burdens on the taxpayer.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
Yes. And as a result we have a hard right party leading by 15 points in the polls
At what point do Woke wankers understand they are leading us to a very British kind of Nazism? You cannot bottle up and silence that fury forever. If we want our liberal democracy to endure, we are going to have to be very illiberal, for about a decade, on all matters to do with migration, asylum, integration, Islam, etc. That way democracy survives, there is no other way
What's more, just as Australia shows you CAN deal with boats, Denmark has shown that you CAN preserve your democracy and exclude the far right from power, if the centrist parties are willing to get suitably tough. But you really do have to be tough: Denmark demolishes ethnic ghettoes. It sends in the bulldozers. It ignores the pleas of lefty EU lawyers and gets on with the task
As a result the Danish far right has been reduced to a rump
Stop pretending that you're not excited by a very British kind of Nazism. Of course you and others will be loudly blaming Woke for that Nazism while ironing your black shorts.
Lederhosen, actually
I'm bringing a couple of pairs home from Bad Aussee tomorrow, I am quite in love with the whole Austrian *look*
I also love the takedown of "why can't we just tow them back - the Australians did". No, we can't because geography here and because the Aussies didn't tow migrant boats back. But apart from that, top idea...
Did we read the same article?
Dura outlines exactly how you could go about doing a tow back in the Channel. You tow out west to somewhere just over 12 miles from the French coast, but a lot further from the British coast. In the Bay of Biscay of you want to be extreme, or Brittany if minimalist.
A friend of mine nearly drowned in the Bay of Biscay. Took two French rescue helicopters to save them. First one dropped a guy in the water to help them, but then was damaged and had to leave everyone, so they floated in a liferaft until the second came.
Our son and his RNLI colleagues regularly exercise with Coastguard RAF helicopters, and it is extremely complex in ensuring the safety of all the rescuers involved and to achieve a successful rescue
If not tow backs then the British government will have to do something.
As a noted PB-er not so long ago pointed out in a whole post on the matter, it is not the measly numbers (although growing) that is the issue, it is that these boats are the most visible and literal (hi Leon) manifestation of the government's lack of control. Over our borders in this instance and, people will inevitably extrapolate, over other parts of the economy also.
Is why it's so dangerous.
As for practical measures to stop them? F**k knows.
It is doing something. The August weather has been glorious. Perfect for small boat crossings. And yet Lowest number of people in small boats since 2021 Lowest number of boat crossings since 2019
The boats were a diversion, whilst everyone was looking at them we didn’t notice the gangs building a dirty long tunnel under the channel.
A big factor in the small boats increase is that we successfully closed down the lorry routes. Opening that up again would pay immediate dividends on the boats. Surprised this never gets a mention as a possible way forward.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
Yes. And as a result we have a hard right party leading by 15 points in the polls
At what point do Woke wankers understand they are leading us to a very British kind of Nazism? You cannot bottle up and silence that fury forever. If we want our liberal democracy to endure, we are going to have to be very illiberal, for about a decade, on all matters to do with migration, asylum, integration, Islam, etc. That way democracy survives, there is no other way
What's more, just as Australia shows you CAN deal with boats, Denmark has shown that you CAN preserve your democracy and exclude the far right from power, if the centrist parties are willing to get suitably tough. But you really do have to be tough: Denmark demolishes ethnic ghettoes. It sends in the bulldozers. It ignores the pleas of lefty EU lawyers and gets on with the task
As a result the Danish far right has been reduced to a rump
The centre party in Poland also saw off the far right. Their method - attack the underlying issues.
Why are people upset by migration? Because their community is getting poorer and they feel helpless. If people felt like they had good jobs and good pay and good services then there wouldn't be the same frustration.
I have said for a while that we should fear what comes after Farage - because he will fail. Lets assume that he is elected and he does all the things you suggest about migration. Go further - send it masked "patriots" to drag people away. After a period of euphoria people then ask if they are better off. And find not only things aren't getting better, they are getting worse.
We aren't having enough babies, we aren't training enough people to do the work we need. Which is why we had waves of migration. Take away the migrants and we have even fewer people paying taxes and doing critical work - and a government whose policies on practically everything that isn't migration work against the issues people cite as problems for them.
We saw this with Brexit. Vote leave. Take Back Control. Get Brexit Done. Fuck all positive changed in people's lives so they threw that government out. As they will Farage. But with so many governments having failed to go after the structural inequalities breaking western societies like ours, the trend is towards authoritarian solutions...
If not tow backs then the British government will have to do something.
As a noted PB-er not so long ago pointed out in a whole post on the matter, it is not the measly numbers (although growing) that is the issue, it is that these boats are the most visible and literal (hi Leon) manifestation of the government's lack of control. Over our borders in this instance and, people will inevitably extrapolate, over other parts of the economy also.
Is why it's so dangerous.
As for practical measures to stop them? F**k knows.
It is doing something. The August weather has been glorious. Perfect for small boat crossings. And yet Lowest number of people in small boats since 2021 Lowest number of boat crossings since 2019
The boats were a diversion, whilst everyone was looking at them we didn’t notice the gangs building a dirty long tunnel under the channel.
A big factor in the small boats increase is that we successfully closed down the lorry routes. Opening that up again would pay immediate dividends on the boats. Surprised this never gets a mention as a possible way forward.
I can almost imagine you saying that with a straight face.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
If not tow backs then the British government will have to do something.
As a noted PB-er not so long ago pointed out in a whole post on the matter, it is not the measly numbers (although growing) that is the issue, it is that these boats are the most visible and literal (hi Leon) manifestation of the government's lack of control. Over our borders in this instance and, people will inevitably extrapolate, over other parts of the economy also.
Is why it's so dangerous.
As for practical measures to stop them? F**k knows.
It is doing something. The August weather has been glorious. Perfect for small boat crossings. And yet Lowest number of people in small boats since 2021 Lowest number of boat crossings since 2019
The boats were a diversion, whilst everyone was looking at them we didn’t notice the gangs building a dirty long tunnel under the channel.
A big factor in the small boats increase is that we successfully closed down the lorry routes. Opening that up again would pay immediate dividends on the boats. Surprised this never gets a mention as a possible way forward.
You want to move the problem to the channel tunnel?
I also love the takedown of "why can't we just tow them back - the Australians did". No, we can't because geography here and because the Aussies didn't tow migrant boats back. But apart from that, top idea...
Also, British culture isn't Australian. We're gentlemen, or effete wimps, depending on your starting point. We don't want to see the sausage made. Even Farage gets this, as evidenced by his row-back last week.
Given the recent protests is that true any more?
A lot of people in Britain seem not only unbothered with seeing the sausage made, but would actually relish seeing the pig squeal as part of the process. Social media has had a massive effect on brutalising people's sensibilities.
I think there's a minority who like the performative cruelty, but most of the British public are revolted by the ugly face of xenophobia. Thus the polling on Lucy Connolly and the horror at the couple discussed on the last thread who racially abused a nurse in a park.
In 2023 polling, more people said immigration should be made easier rather than harder for...
Non-British partners of British citizens and permanent residents EU nationals Students People from Hong Kong People from Ukraine Hospitality staff Lorry drivers Construction workers Farm and agricultural workers Care workers for older people High-skilled workers Financial sector workers IT specialists Teachers Engineers Scientists and researchers NHS staff Workers in jobs where there are shortages
But more people said immigration should be made harder rather than easier for...
People applying for asylum People from Afghanistan Low-skilled workers
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
Yes. And as a result we have a hard right party leading by 15 points in the polls
At what point do Woke wankers understand they are leading us to a very British kind of Nazism? You cannot bottle up and silence that fury forever. If we want our liberal democracy to endure, we are going to have to be very illiberal, for about a decade, on all matters to do with migration, asylum, integration, Islam, etc. That way democracy survives, there is no other way
What's more, just as Australia shows you CAN deal with boats, Denmark has shown that you CAN preserve your democracy and exclude the far right from power, if the centrist parties are willing to get suitably tough. But you really do have to be tough: Denmark demolishes ethnic ghettoes. It sends in the bulldozers. It ignores the pleas of lefty EU lawyers and gets on with the task
As a result the Danish far right has been reduced to a rump
Stop pretending that you're not excited by a very British kind of Nazism. Of course you and others will be loudly blaming Woke for that Nazism while ironing your black shorts.
Lederhosen, actually
I'm bringing a couple of pairs home from Bad Aussee tomorrow, I am quite in love with the whole Austrian *look*
Mmm, sexy, I hope your knees are less chubby than those of u-know-who. Poignantly I recall Gregg Wallace getting fitted out for a pair on one of his foreign weekends away progs that minor stars do nowadays, bloody expensive Istr.
I also love the takedown of "why can't we just tow them back - the Australians did". No, we can't because geography here and because the Aussies didn't tow migrant boats back. But apart from that, top idea...
Did we read the same article?
Dura outlines exactly how you could go about doing a tow back in the Channel. You tow out west to somewhere just over 12 miles from the French coast, but a lot further from the British coast. In the Bay of Biscay of you want to be extreme, or Brittany if minimalist.
A friend of mine nearly drowned in the Bay of Biscay. Took two French rescue helicopters to save them. First one dropped a guy in the water to help them, but then was damaged and had to leave everyone, so they floated in a liferaft until the second came.
If you were to do it as described then going a few miles north east would be far more sensible. Though as posted earlier, I doubt the inflatables are robust enough to be towed and you'll end up with people in the water.
If not tow backs then the British government will have to do something.
As a noted PB-er not so long ago pointed out in a whole post on the matter, it is not the measly numbers (although growing) that is the issue, it is that these boats are the most visible and literal (hi Leon) manifestation of the government's lack of control. Over our borders in this instance and, people will inevitably extrapolate, over other parts of the economy also.
Is why it's so dangerous.
As for practical measures to stop them? F**k knows.
It is doing something. The August weather has been glorious. Perfect for small boat crossings. And yet Lowest number of people in small boats since 2021 Lowest number of boat crossings since 2019
The boats were a diversion, whilst everyone was looking at them we didn’t notice the gangs building a dirty long tunnel under the channel.
A big factor in the small boats increase is that we successfully closed down the lorry routes. Opening that up again would pay immediate dividends on the boats. Surprised this never gets a mention as a possible way forward.
They could turn the whole thing into entertainment. At the start of every July to end August the competition begins for who can get here in the most innovative/exciting way. The best 100 voted for by the British Public in Cooperation with Simon Cowell get to stay and bring their families.
It will be like a mix of those events in harbours where people make gliders to fly off the harbour wall, Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines, the Krypton Factor and the Hunger Games.
I expect to see home made hot air balloons, giant trebuchets firing migrants over the Channel, people disguised as Porpoises swimming valiantly past the guard boats.
It’s the asylum route entertainment the people need all sponsored by Red Bull.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
Utterly bewildering we ever allowed such a generous system to operate in the first place. And predictably maddening that first the Tories then Labour (until now) have never moved to close it down
My hunch is that this issue is now baked in. The public mood has gone far beyond "the boats" and is now anti-immigration in general, and to a pretty severe degree., and it is probably irreversible, until dramatic changes occur
It's sad. We had a pretty harmonious country, with flaws, until 10-20 years ago. Grotesque ineptitude - or outright treachery - has squandered this inheritance
Perhaps we should grow a pair and leave the United Nations Convention of the Law of the Sea if - as appears to be the case - it is taking precedence over the rights of the people of Epping.
That would put us in the USA position of never having joined it in the first place.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
Yes. And as a result we have a hard right party leading by 15 points in the polls
At what point do Woke wankers understand they are leading us to a very British kind of Nazism? You cannot bottle up and silence that fury forever. If we want our liberal democracy to endure, we are going to have to be very illiberal, for about a decade, on all matters to do with migration, asylum, integration, Islam, etc. That way democracy survives, there is no other way
What's more, just as Australia shows you CAN deal with boats, Denmark has shown that you CAN preserve your democracy and exclude the far right from power, if the centrist parties are willing to get suitably tough. But you really do have to be tough: Denmark demolishes ethnic ghettoes. It sends in the bulldozers. It ignores the pleas of lefty EU lawyers and gets on with the task
As a result the Danish far right has been reduced to a rump
The centrist way here seems to be to do stuff they know full well will be provocative to people on both left and right, act utterly bewildered that anyone could possibly think they’re not 100% correct, then sigh knowingly and call people names when those they provoked react.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
Yes. And as a result we have a hard right party leading by 15 points in the polls
At what point do Woke wankers understand they are leading us to a very British kind of Nazism? You cannot bottle up and silence that fury forever. If we want our liberal democracy to endure, we are going to have to be very illiberal, for about a decade, on all matters to do with migration, asylum, integration, Islam, etc. That way democracy survives, there is no other way
What's more, just as Australia shows you CAN deal with boats, Denmark has shown that you CAN preserve your democracy and exclude the far right from power, if the centrist parties are willing to get suitably tough. But you really do have to be tough: Denmark demolishes ethnic ghettoes. It sends in the bulldozers. It ignores the pleas of lefty EU lawyers and gets on with the task
As a result the Danish far right has been reduced to a rump
Stop pretending that you're not excited by a very British kind of Nazism. Of course you and others will be loudly blaming Woke for that Nazism while ironing your black shorts.
Lederhosen, actually
I'm bringing a couple of pairs home from Bad Aussee tomorrow, I am quite in love with the whole Austrian *look*
One hopes they are brown, not black, and for display in a frame on the wall.
"Even though irregular maritime arrivals are a small fraction of the total immigration to the UK, they have totemic potency way beyond their actual number."
If it was not for them, the racists would find something else to whip up a frenzy about.
There speaks a well off member of society, no inkling of what is going on at the bottom of the pile among the great unwashed.
If you arrive here from France, you are not fleeing persecution.
So either piss off somewhere else, or live destitute on the street. Your choice.
Many Jews fleeing the Nazis in the 1930s went to France. Some kept going west, to the UK, the US etc. Many in the UK, like the Daily Mail, thought they should stay in France or piss off somewhere else. Those who did stay in France... well, about one in four were killed.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
Utterly bewildering we ever allowed such a generous system to operate in the first place. And predictably maddening that first the Tories then Labour (until now) have never moved to close it down
My hunch is that this issue is now baked in. The public mood has gone far beyond "the boats" and is now anti-immigration in general, and to a pretty severe degree., and it is probably irreversible, until dramatic changes occur
It's sad. We had a pretty harmonious country, with flaws, until 10-20 years ago. Grotesque ineptitude - or outright treachery - has squandered this inheritance
They never wanted to close it down as the system was operating as intended. We had years of politicians, on inward migration in general, moaning it was too high while doing nothing aside enable it. The moral cowardice of the Blair and Cameron years on migration is stark.
What’s changed ? The public seems to have had enough and the old tactic of just telling everyone they are racist for not being happy clappy about mass inward migration no longer works.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
Yes. And as a result we have a hard right party leading by 15 points in the polls
At what point do Woke wankers understand they are leading us to a very British kind of Nazism? You cannot bottle up and silence that fury forever. If we want our liberal democracy to endure, we are going to have to be very illiberal, for about a decade, on all matters to do with migration, asylum, integration, Islam, etc. That way democracy survives, there is no other way
What's more, just as Australia shows you CAN deal with boats, Denmark has shown that you CAN preserve your democracy and exclude the far right from power, if the centrist parties are willing to get suitably tough. But you really do have to be tough: Denmark demolishes ethnic ghettoes. It sends in the bulldozers. It ignores the pleas of lefty EU lawyers and gets on with the task
As a result the Danish far right has been reduced to a rump
The centrist way here seems to be to do stuff they know full well will be provocative to people on both left and right, act utterly bewildered that anyone could possibly think they’re not 100% correct, then sigh knowingly and call people names when those they provoked react.
Yes. Labour's approach closely copies that of the last Tory government, but with an extra and repellent flavour of moral vanity and whining piety - in the manner of @bondegezou
They talk tough, which infuriates a lot of people on the left, but they don't actually do anything, which maddens everyone on the right. And then they accuse everyone but themselves of "racism", which makes millions of people shrug and say "what the heck, so I'm a racist, might as well vote Reform"
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
This idea other countries don't take a share is bizarre.
More in many cases. The anger and commotion on account of not particularly high numbers of refugees and the demand for ever more draconian 'solutions' does not support the comforting idea that the British people are paragons of tolerance who have had their reserves of patience tested to destruction.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
More economically inactive burdens on the taxpayer.
If you arrive here from France, you are not fleeing persecution.
So either piss off somewhere else, or live destitute on the street. Your choice.
Many Jews fleeing the Nazis in the 1930s went to France. Some kept going west, to the UK, the US etc. Many in the UK, like the Daily Mail, thought they should stay in France or piss off somewhere else. Those who did stay in France... well, about one in four were killed.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
Utterly bewildering we ever allowed such a generous system to operate in the first place. And predictably maddening that first the Tories then Labour (until now) have never moved to close it down
My hunch is that this issue is now baked in. The public mood has gone far beyond "the boats" and is now anti-immigration in general, and to a pretty severe degree., and it is probably irreversible, until dramatic changes occur
It's sad. We had a pretty harmonious country, with flaws, until 10-20 years ago. Grotesque ineptitude - or outright treachery - has squandered this inheritance
They never wanted to close it down as the system was operating as intended. We had years of politicians, on inward migration in general, moaning it was too high while doing nothing aside enable it. The moral cowardice of the Blair and Cameron years on migration is stark.
What’s changed ? The public seems to have had enough and the old tactic of just telling everyone they are racist for not being happy clappy about mass inward migration no longer works.
It is ironic that you describe Blair's "moral cowardice" on this issue and yet Farage in his big policy launch speech repeatedly praised Blair for his swift action to remove illegal migrants...
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
Yes. And as a result we have a hard right party leading by 15 points in the polls
At what point do Woke wankers understand they are leading us to a very British kind of Nazism? You cannot bottle up and silence that fury forever. If we want our liberal democracy to endure, we are going to have to be very illiberal, for about a decade, on all matters to do with migration, asylum, integration, Islam, etc. That way democracy survives, there is no other way
What's more, just as Australia shows you CAN deal with boats, Denmark has shown that you CAN preserve your democracy and exclude the far right from power, if the centrist parties are willing to get suitably tough. But you really do have to be tough: Denmark demolishes ethnic ghettoes. It sends in the bulldozers. It ignores the pleas of lefty EU lawyers and gets on with the task
As a result the Danish far right has been reduced to a rump
The centrist way here seems to be to do stuff they know full well will be provocative to people on both left and right, act utterly bewildered that anyone could possibly think they’re not 100% correct, then sigh knowingly and call people names when those they provoked react.
Yes. Labour's approach closely copies that of the last Tory government, but with an extra and repellent flavour of moral vanity and whining piety - in the manner of @bondegezou
They talk tough, which infuriates a lot of people on the left, but they don't actually do anything, which maddens everyone on the right. And then they accuse everyone but themselves of "racism", which makes millions of people shrug and say "what the heck, so I'm a racist, might as well vote Reform"
Hence the polls
Polls change. People's problem isn't foreigners in their communities, its those communities being increasingly poor and shit.
Farage looks set to win. Farage will undoubtedly remove some migrants. And people's lives will continue to become increasingly poor and shit.
We need to look at what is driving people mad. "migrants" is the symptom, not the cause.
Would these inflatables survive being towed? I doubt they've been designed for towing loads, so you may end up tearing them apart and a lot of people in the sea.
If you read the header, the way the Australian system works if the refugees get fished out onto a patrol boat, shifted to a convenient location just outside Indonesian territorial waters, then given a decent lifeboat just sufficiently fuelled to get them back to Indonesia. They aren't being sent back on dodgy inflatables.
This also potentially addresses the "efficiency" problem - have 2 or 3 patrol boats, each one covers the channel for a few hours scooping up all the boat crossings that enter UK waters, then makes one run to somewhere convenient to send a convoy of the days winnings back to France. Once you've fished the people out and sunk their inflatable, you don't have to immediately head for the drop-off point for their return - you can wait until you've a full load.
As with all these deterrents, it will work, providing we are able to do it to 99.9% of the small boats. If there is a 30% chance of making it through, the boat people will still come. We have to make it impossible to succeed for them to stop trying.
Mm. That's a rational argument. But there need to be enough patrol; boats to provide cover - add some more for down time, refuelling, maintenance at base. Crews too. Night shifts. Think about the timings involved in a typical daily cycle, bearing in mind the passengers can't be dumped late in the day or at night. Or in shipping lanes.
And there is at least one easy way to circumvent this - saturate the patrol boats by sailing all at once (which tends to happen in good weather anyway).
The fact the Tories never seriously addressed the issue makes me wonder if someone crunched the numbers.
Must be far cheaper than £7 billion a year to buy a shedload of patrol boats and stop them entering British waters at all. They would soon get teh picture. Fact that they get taxis sent out to bring them in has caused the huge explosion and as per our posts , once one gets in they bring a shedload of dependents later so it is 10 for 1 we are getting not just the 50K.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
Yes. And as a result we have a hard right party leading by 15 points in the polls
At what point do Woke wankers understand they are leading us to a very British kind of Nazism? You cannot bottle up and silence that fury forever. If we want our liberal democracy to endure, we are going to have to be very illiberal, for about a decade, on all matters to do with migration, asylum, integration, Islam, etc. That way democracy survives, there is no other way
What's more, just as Australia shows you CAN deal with boats, Denmark has shown that you CAN preserve your democracy and exclude the far right from power, if the centrist parties are willing to get suitably tough. But you really do have to be tough: Denmark demolishes ethnic ghettoes. It sends in the bulldozers. It ignores the pleas of lefty EU lawyers and gets on with the task
As a result the Danish far right has been reduced to a rump
Stop pretending that you're not excited by a very British kind of Nazism. Of course you and others will be loudly blaming Woke for that Nazism while ironing your black shorts.
Lederhosen, actually
I'm bringing a couple of pairs home from Bad Aussee tomorrow, I am quite in love with the whole Austrian *look*
Mmm, sexy, I hope your knees are less chubby than those of u-know-who. Poignantly I recall Gregg Wallace getting fitted out for a pair on one of his foreign weekends away progs that minor stars do nowadays, bloody expensive Istr.
What could possibly go wrong? Carry on Leon back to the 1970s ...
.. the public loved the sexually explicit Alpine slapstick, and the movie attracted more viewers than any other that year in Germany -- and kicked off a film series that would rake in some 12 million deutsche marks (roughly €6 million).
Germany was seized by a veritable lederhosen fever, and "Made in Germany" soft-porn films inundated domestic theaters. Among Marischka's own titles in this flood was "From Lederhosen with Love 2 -- Two Buddies in the Meadow" (1974), "Two Danes in Lederhosen" (1978) and "Three Lederhosen on St. Tropez" (1980). There were also plenty of copy-cats films on the market, with catchy titles like "The Lederhosen Itch When You're Yodeling" (1974) or "From Lederhosen with Love -- Where the Torrent Whooshes through the Knickers" (1974). In fact, there was also reportedly a sharp and sudden increase in the number of people overnighting in Pfronten, where "From Lederhosen with Love" was filmed.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
More economically inactive burdens on the taxpayer.
Dig deep wage slaves. Others need your money.
Why presume they will be economically inactive?
Because statistically that is the case for adults and clearly children brought won’t be.
If you arrive here from France, you are not fleeing persecution.
So either piss off somewhere else, or live destitute on the street. Your choice.
Many Jews fleeing the Nazis in the 1930s went to France. Some kept going west, to the UK, the US etc. Many in the UK, like the Daily Mail, thought they should stay in France or piss off somewhere else. Those who did stay in France... well, about one in four were killed.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
This idea other countries don't take a share is bizarre.
More in many cases. The anger and commotion on account of not particularly high numbers of refugees and the demand for ever more draconian 'solutions' does not support the comforting idea that the British people are paragons of tolerance who have had their reserves of patience tested to destruction.
Perhaps because we took in roughly 2.3 MILLION people, net, in the years 2021-2024? A wave of migration that is virtually unexampled in human history, outside wartime?
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
A definition of dependant gives:
a person who relies on another, especially a family member, for financial support.
Of course many of these 'dependants' aren't relying on a family member for financial support but on British taxpayers.
The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed.
More immigrants are in employment (77%) than UK-born individuals (75%).
Median yearly earnings for UK-born individuals in 2024 was £29,600 compared to £30,000 for non-EU immigrants and £31,100 for EU immigrants.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
Utterly bewildering we ever allowed such a generous system to operate in the first place. And predictably maddening that first the Tories then Labour (until now) have never moved to close it down
My hunch is that this issue is now baked in. The public mood has gone far beyond "the boats" and is now anti-immigration in general, and to a pretty severe degree., and it is probably irreversible, until dramatic changes occur
It's sad. We had a pretty harmonious country, with flaws, until 10-20 years ago. Grotesque ineptitude - or outright treachery - has squandered this inheritance
They never wanted to close it down as the system was operating as intended. We had years of politicians, on inward migration in general, moaning it was too high while doing nothing aside enable it. The moral cowardice of the Blair and Cameron years on migration is stark.
What’s changed ? The public seems to have had enough and the old tactic of just telling everyone they are racist for not being happy clappy about mass inward migration no longer works.
It is ironic that you describe Blair's "moral cowardice" on this issue and yet Farage in his big policy launch speech repeatedly praised Blair for his swift action to remove illegal migrants...
You’re talking about two different things.
I’m talking about Blair’s moral cowardice for enable a huge increase in inward migration while failing to make the case for it and even complaining, as Cameron did, it was too high and they needed to do something about it. While doing nothing.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
Darren Jones appointed 'chief secretary to the PM', and put in charge of policy delivery Here is the Downing Street news release about the mini No 10 reshuffle, including Darren Jones becoming chief secretary (minister of state) to the PM. Jones was chief secretary to the Treasury.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I’m afraid the conversation has moved on . Reform and the Tories don’t want even genuine asylum seekers. If you’re non white and here legally you’re likely get more abuse as the atmosphere becomes even more toxic .
I do not accept your generalisation that conservatives dont want genuine asylum seekers and do not forget it was the conservatives who offered sanctuary to Ukranians and those from Hong Kong
Immigration into the UK has to be controlled, and it is not helpful for some to label those wanting the boats and migrants hotels to be stopped as far right and racist, because this has spread way beyond the far right to many in the population who just want fairness
Everyone, no matter their ethnicity, living here are integral to our community and if someone can stop the boats this issue will lanced
Yes, immigration has to be controlled (and it largely is). I think nearly everyone wants the boats to stop. It is government policy to get rid of migrant hotels. It is not far right or racist to want these things.
However, clearly some of the people protesting outside hotels and some of the people posting here are more generally anti-immigrant and want, in the words of one poster, more white babies.
Is there an issue with our prevailing southwesterly wind? If we dump migrants in life rafts just off France and they get blown into the shipping lanes, we just give the RNLI more work to do.
The last few days an easterly wind stopped all the pleasure boats from sailing in Llandudno and our son said on two shouts the wind caused problems for the operation of the RNLI inshore boat
As far as dumping the migrants in international waters off France no doubt in some type of lifeboat just seems a fantasy
There were unusual sea conditions last week due to sea swells resulting from storms in the Atlantic. The Waverley sailed from the Clyde to Dartmouth via the Pentland Firth and North Sea instead of via the Irish Sea. Sea conditions in the English Channel will have prevented small boats from sailing.
On the unchanging soul thing, Carswell seems to have gone from slightly loony but harmless Conkipper to out and out racist just by moving to the USA, so travel can apparently narrow the mind and the soul.
He did choose to go to Mississippi though not Massachusetts for a reason
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
A definition of dependant gives:
a person who relies on another, especially a family member, for financial support.
Of course many of these 'dependants' aren't relying on a family member for financial support but on British taxpayers.
The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed.
More immigrants are in employment (77%) than UK-born individuals (75%).
Median yearly earnings for UK-born individuals in 2024 was £29,600 compared to £30,000 for non-EU immigrants and £31,100 for EU immigrants.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
A definition of dependant gives:
a person who relies on another, especially a family member, for financial support.
Of course many of these 'dependants' aren't relying on a family member for financial support but on British taxpayers.
The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed.
More immigrants are in employment (77%) than UK-born individuals (75%).
Median yearly earnings for UK-born individuals in 2024 was £29,600 compared to £30,000 for non-EU immigrants and £31,100 for EU immigrants.
If you arrive here from France, you are not fleeing persecution.
So either piss off somewhere else, or live destitute on the street. Your choice.
Many Jews fleeing the Nazis in the 1930s went to France. Some kept going west, to the UK, the US etc. Many in the UK, like the Daily Mail, thought they should stay in France or piss off somewhere else. Those who did stay in France... well, about one in four were killed.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
Yes. And as a result we have a hard right party leading by 15 points in the polls
At what point do Woke wankers understand they are leading us to a very British kind of Nazism? You cannot bottle up and silence that fury forever. If we want our liberal democracy to endure, we are going to have to be very illiberal, for about a decade, on all matters to do with migration, asylum, integration, Islam, etc. That way democracy survives, there is no other way
What's more, just as Australia shows you CAN deal with boats, Denmark has shown that you CAN preserve your democracy and exclude the far right from power, if the centrist parties are willing to get suitably tough. But you really do have to be tough: Denmark demolishes ethnic ghettoes. It sends in the bulldozers. It ignores the pleas of lefty EU lawyers and gets on with the task
As a result the Danish far right has been reduced to a rump
The centrist way here seems to be to do stuff they know full well will be provocative to people on both left and right, act utterly bewildered that anyone could possibly think they’re not 100% correct, then sigh knowingly and call people names when those they provoked react.
Yes. Labour's approach closely copies that of the last Tory government, but with an extra and repellent flavour of moral vanity and whining piety - in the manner of @bondegezou
They talk tough, which infuriates a lot of people on the left, but they don't actually do anything, which maddens everyone on the right. And then they accuse everyone but themselves of "racism", which makes millions of people shrug and say "what the heck, so I'm a racist, might as well vote Reform"
Hence the polls
Polls change. People's problem isn't foreigners in their communities, its those communities being increasingly poor and shit.
Farage looks set to win. Farage will undoubtedly remove some migrants. And people's lives will continue to become increasingly poor and shit.
We need to look at what is driving people mad. "migrants" is the symptom, not the cause.
I suspect the mood has shifted much further to the right, and now there is simple and basic intolerance. Patience has snapped
I hope I'm wrong and I also hope some government can steer us back to a more peaceful place. But the prospects are bleak, as of now
All of which is quite depressing so I'm gonna do some work then head out for some Austrian sunshine. Tschuss!
Holiday finished, back home now and have several hundred emails to read!
My viewpoint on holiday emails - anything important will be brought to your attention by someone who actually needs an answer - so anything in your mailbox isn't that important.
My mailbox is full of items from JIRA so it's really not that important.
Yes thankfully I have a colleague in department now, so anything urgent was a Teams message while I was away. Most of the emails are catching up on project stuff, tracking hiring and firings, that sort of thing. I had about 600 emails in total, plus a couple of thousand more from various automated systems that went straight in the bin, not too bad for four weeks off.
On the unchanging soul thing, Carswell seems to have gone from slightly loony but harmless Conkipper to out and out racist just by moving to the USA, so travel can apparently narrow the mind and the soul.
He did choose to go to Mississippi though not Massachusetts for a reason
If not tow backs then the British government will have to do something.
As a noted PB-er not so long ago pointed out in a whole post on the matter, it is not the measly numbers (although growing) that is the issue, it is that these boats are the most visible and literal (hi Leon) manifestation of the government's lack of control. Over our borders in this instance and, people will inevitably extrapolate, over other parts of the economy also.
Is why it's so dangerous.
As for practical measures to stop them? F**k knows.
It is doing something. The August weather has been glorious. Perfect for small boat crossings. And yet Lowest number of people in small boats since 2021 Lowest number of boat crossings since 2019
The boats were a diversion, whilst everyone was looking at them we didn’t notice the gangs building a dirty long tunnel under the channel.
A big factor in the small boats increase is that we successfully closed down the lorry routes. Opening that up again would pay immediate dividends on the boats. Surprised this never gets a mention as a possible way forward.
You want to move the problem to the channel tunnel?
No. Just pointing out that's more where it used to be.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
Utterly bewildering we ever allowed such a generous system to operate in the first place. And predictably maddening that first the Tories then Labour (until now) have never moved to close it down
My hunch is that this issue is now baked in. The public mood has gone far beyond "the boats" and is now anti-immigration in general, and to a pretty severe degree., and it is probably irreversible, until dramatic changes occur
It's sad. We had a pretty harmonious country, with flaws, until 10-20 years ago. Grotesque ineptitude - or outright treachery - has squandered this inheritance
They never wanted to close it down as the system was operating as intended. We had years of politicians, on inward migration in general, moaning it was too high while doing nothing aside enable it. The moral cowardice of the Blair and Cameron years on migration is stark.
What’s changed ? The public seems to have had enough and the old tactic of just telling everyone they are racist for not being happy clappy about mass inward migration no longer works.
It is ironic that you describe Blair's "moral cowardice" on this issue and yet Farage in his big policy launch speech repeatedly praised Blair for his swift action to remove illegal migrants...
You’re talking about two different things.
I’m talking about Blair’s moral cowardice for enable a huge increase in inward migration while failing to make the case for it and even complaining, as Cameron did, it was too high and they needed to do something about it. While doing nothing.
The case for it? We lacked a workforce in a large areas of the economy. The wave of Eastern Europeans was paraded as a Massive Crisis. 20 years on and nobody is bothered about Poles et al.
Again, as filling the workforce gaps is now seen as treason, we have two choices: 1) A national campaign to get people shagging. Get the birthrate up significantly. Combined with a significant long term investment to train "British" people to be plumbers, doctors, chefs, engineers. 2) Successfully deport the "pakis" (note how that word keeps coming back as the label for everyone) and suffer a sharp national decline as patriots fail to train up as plumbers, doctors, chefs, engineers and fail to have more babies because nobody wants to shag them
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
Utterly bewildering we ever allowed such a generous system to operate in the first place. And predictably maddening that first the Tories then Labour (until now) have never moved to close it down
My hunch is that this issue is now baked in. The public mood has gone far beyond "the boats" and is now anti-immigration in general, and to a pretty severe degree., and it is probably irreversible, until dramatic changes occur
It's sad. We had a pretty harmonious country, with flaws, until 10-20 years ago. Grotesque ineptitude - or outright treachery - has squandered this inheritance
They never wanted to close it down as the system was operating as intended. We had years of politicians, on inward migration in general, moaning it was too high while doing nothing aside enable it. The moral cowardice of the Blair and Cameron years on migration is stark.
What’s changed ? The public seems to have had enough and the old tactic of just telling everyone they are racist for not being happy clappy about mass inward migration no longer works.
Taz, think of all those benefits and prosperity it has brought the country, a shining beacon of what happens when you let every Tom, Dick & Harry in and give tehm free access to benefits , services etc at eth expense of your locals. Everybody is supposed to be rejoicing. Whole country is F***ed , far too easy on benefits , all done by phone and unlimited access for illegals who then bring in extended families etc. OK for politicians though , they can go about buying £800K holiday homes and avoid any taxes on them etc. I am extremely glad I am not one of the poor sods in bottom quartile of UK heap.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I’m afraid the conversation has moved on . Reform and the Tories don’t want even genuine asylum seekers. If you’re non white and here legally you’re likely get more abuse as the atmosphere becomes even more toxic .
I do not accept your generalisation that conservatives dont want genuine asylum seekers and do not forget it was the conservatives who offered sanctuary to Ukranians and those from Hong Kong
Immigration into the UK has to be controlled, and it is not helpful for some to label those wanting the boats and migrants hotels to be stopped as far right and racist, because this has spread way beyond the far right to many in the population who just want fairness
Everyone, no matter their ethnicity, living here are integral to our community and if someone can stop the boats this issue will lanced
Yes, immigration has to be controlled (and it largely is). I think nearly everyone wants the boats to stop. It is government policy to get rid of migrant hotels. It is not far right or racist to want these things.
However, clearly some of the people protesting outside hotels and some of the people posting here are more generally anti-immigrant and want, in the words of one poster, more white babies.
There are extremes on both the right and the left but on the question of the boats and asylum hotels, it is unhelpful to brand those protesting and objecting as far right and racist when this is a view shared across many in the population and of course Starmer and Cooper would not be talking about deportation and even reclusing parts of the ECHR if they did not know this is a serious issue for them
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
More economically inactive burdens on the taxpayer.
Dig deep wage slaves. Others need your money.
Why presume they will be economically inactive?
Because statistically that is the case for adults and clearly children brought won’t be.
Some will, some won't. They're not a homogenous whole. The children will grow up and become economically active, like children born here do.
If we those granted asylum and their families to be economically active, let's help them to be so by resolving asylum cases promptly, so people can enter the labour market, and providing educational support, e.g. improving people's English. Let's stop viewing anyone as a "burden on the taxpayer" and start viewing everyone as a potential asset to the country.
Yes. And as a result we have a hard right party leading by 15 points in the polls
At what point do Woke wankers understand they are leading us to a very British kind of Nazism? You cannot bottle up and silence that fury forever. If we want our liberal democracy to endure, we are going to have to be very illiberal, for about a decade, on all matters to do with migration, asylum, integration, Islam, etc. That way democracy survives, there is no other way
What's more, just as Australia shows you CAN deal with boats, Denmark has shown that you CAN preserve your democracy and exclude the far right from power, if the centrist parties are willing to get suitably tough. But you really do have to be tough: Denmark demolishes ethnic ghettoes. It sends in the bulldozers. It ignores the pleas of lefty EU lawyers and gets on with the task
As a result the Danish far right has been reduced to a rump
I grew up in Denmark and follow their politics closely - I used to be a member of the Social Democrats there. The pattern of polling is to favour the extremes:
F plus OE (the far left) are up from 13 to 21, while AE plus O (the far right) are up from 8 to 17. The article correctly says they are both kept out of power because of solid centrist coalitions (moderate left and moderate right). That's the way that PR systems avoid chaos, but one can't maintain the position indefinitely.
If not tow backs then the British government will have to do something.
As a noted PB-er not so long ago pointed out in a whole post on the matter, it is not the measly numbers (although growing) that is the issue, it is that these boats are the most visible and literal (hi Leon) manifestation of the government's lack of control. Over our borders in this instance and, people will inevitably extrapolate, over other parts of the economy also.
Is why it's so dangerous.
As for practical measures to stop them? F**k knows.
It is doing something. The August weather has been glorious. Perfect for small boat crossings. And yet Lowest number of people in small boats since 2021 Lowest number of boat crossings since 2019
The boats were a diversion, whilst everyone was looking at them we didn’t notice the gangs building a dirty long tunnel under the channel.
A big factor in the small boats increase is that we successfully closed down the lorry routes. Opening that up again would pay immediate dividends on the boats. Surprised this never gets a mention as a possible way forward.
I can almost imagine you saying that with a straight face.
Well, you know, the sort of things that get thrown around.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
A definition of dependant gives:
a person who relies on another, especially a family member, for financial support.
Of course many of these 'dependants' aren't relying on a family member for financial support but on British taxpayers.
The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed.
More immigrants are in employment (77%) than UK-born individuals (75%).
Median yearly earnings for UK-born individuals in 2024 was £29,600 compared to £30,000 for non-EU immigrants and £31,100 for EU immigrants.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
A definition of dependant gives:
a person who relies on another, especially a family member, for financial support.
Of course many of these 'dependants' aren't relying on a family member for financial support but on British taxpayers.
The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed.
More immigrants are in employment (77%) than UK-born individuals (75%).
Median yearly earnings for UK-born individuals in 2024 was £29,600 compared to £30,000 for non-EU immigrants and £31,100 for EU immigrants.
You’re deliberately confusing an issue. I’m talking specifically about asylum seekers given leave to remain. As was the post I replied to.
You said, and I quote, "The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed." This tendency to confuse "immigrants" with "asylum seekers" with "illegal immigrants" is part of the problem. Perhaps it would help if everyone was a bit clearer what they meant.
If you arrive here from France, you are not fleeing persecution.
So either piss off somewhere else, or live destitute on the street. Your choice.
Many Jews fleeing the Nazis in the 1930s went to France. Some kept going west, to the UK, the US etc. Many in the UK, like the Daily Mail, thought they should stay in France or piss off somewhere else. Those who did stay in France... well, about one in four were killed.
Wake me up when the Taliban tanks are rolling down the Champs-Élysées.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
A definition of dependant gives:
a person who relies on another, especially a family member, for financial support.
Of course many of these 'dependants' aren't relying on a family member for financial support but on British taxpayers.
The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed.
More immigrants are in employment (77%) than UK-born individuals (75%).
Median yearly earnings for UK-born individuals in 2024 was £29,600 compared to £30,000 for non-EU immigrants and £31,100 for EU immigrants.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
Yes. And as a result we have a hard right party leading by 15 points in the polls
At what point do Woke wankers understand they are leading us to a very British kind of Nazism? You cannot bottle up and silence that fury forever. If we want our liberal democracy to endure, we are going to have to be very illiberal, for about a decade, on all matters to do with migration, asylum, integration, Islam, etc. That way democracy survives, there is no other way
What's more, just as Australia shows you CAN deal with boats, Denmark has shown that you CAN preserve your democracy and exclude the far right from power, if the centrist parties are willing to get suitably tough. But you really do have to be tough: Denmark demolishes ethnic ghettoes. It sends in the bulldozers. It ignores the pleas of lefty EU lawyers and gets on with the task
As a result the Danish far right has been reduced to a rump
Stop pretending that you're not excited by a very British kind of Nazism. Of course you and others will be loudly blaming Woke for that Nazism while ironing your black shorts.
Lederhosen, actually
I'm bringing a couple of pairs home from Bad Aussee tomorrow, I am quite in love with the whole Austrian *look*
Mmm, sexy, I hope your knees are less chubby than those of u-know-who. Poignantly I recall Gregg Wallace getting fitted out for a pair on one of his foreign weekends away progs that minor stars do nowadays, bloody expensive Istr.
That’s an excellent photo of Leon. Well worth your daily allowance.
Darren Jones appointed 'chief secretary to the PM', and put in charge of policy delivery Here is the Downing Street news release about the mini No 10 reshuffle, including Darren Jones becoming chief secretary (minister of state) to the PM. Jones was chief secretary to the Treasury.
Guardian blog
That's an interesting constitutional innovation. A recognition that the job of PM has expanded to be too much for one person.
Perhaps the PM could appoint a whole team of people to help with their job. They could each handle one area of government policy. You could call them a cupboard, or something like that.
This will help. Only four houses but it’s hard enough to get on the property ladder.
Asylum seekers 'are given new £300k townhouses with en-suites, EV charging points and underfloor heating'... while locals battle to get on the property ladder
If not tow backs then the British government will have to do something.
As a noted PB-er not so long ago pointed out in a whole post on the matter, it is not the measly numbers (although growing) that is the issue, it is that these boats are the most visible and literal (hi Leon) manifestation of the government's lack of control. Over our borders in this instance and, people will inevitably extrapolate, over other parts of the economy also.
Is why it's so dangerous.
As for practical measures to stop them? F**k knows.
It is doing something. The August weather has been glorious. Perfect for small boat crossings. And yet Lowest number of people in small boats since 2021 Lowest number of boat crossings since 2019
The boats were a diversion, whilst everyone was looking at them we didn’t notice the gangs building a dirty long tunnel under the channel.
A big factor in the small boats increase is that we successfully closed down the lorry routes. Opening that up again would pay immediate dividends on the boats. Surprised this never gets a mention as a possible way forward.
I can almost imagine you saying that with a straight face.
Well, you know, the sort of things that get thrown around.
I always wondered if the small boat panic was whipped up in part by hauliers who'd lost their income stream.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
A definition of dependant gives:
a person who relies on another, especially a family member, for financial support.
Of course many of these 'dependants' aren't relying on a family member for financial support but on British taxpayers.
The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed.
More immigrants are in employment (77%) than UK-born individuals (75%).
Median yearly earnings for UK-born individuals in 2024 was £29,600 compared to £30,000 for non-EU immigrants and £31,100 for EU immigrants.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
A definition of dependant gives:
a person who relies on another, especially a family member, for financial support.
Of course many of these 'dependants' aren't relying on a family member for financial support but on British taxpayers.
The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed.
More immigrants are in employment (77%) than UK-born individuals (75%).
Median yearly earnings for UK-born individuals in 2024 was £29,600 compared to £30,000 for non-EU immigrants and £31,100 for EU immigrants.
You’re deliberately confusing an issue. I’m talking specifically about asylum seekers given leave to remain. As was the post I replied to.
You said, and I quote, "The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed." This tendency to confuse "immigrants" with "asylum seekers" with "illegal immigrants" is part of the problem. Perhaps it would help if everyone was a bit clearer what they meant.
This will help. Only four houses but it’s hard enough to get on the property ladder.
Asylum seekers 'are given new £300k townhouses with en-suites, EV charging points and underfloor heating'... while locals battle to get on the property ladder
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I’m afraid the conversation has moved on . Reform and the Tories don’t want even genuine asylum seekers. If you’re non white and here legally you’re likely get more abuse as the atmosphere becomes even more toxic .
I do not accept your generalisation that conservatives dont want genuine asylum seekers and do not forget it was the conservatives who offered sanctuary to Ukranians and those from Hong Kong
Immigration into the UK has to be controlled, and it is not helpful for some to label those wanting the boats and migrants hotels to be stopped as far right and racist, because this has spread way beyond the far right to many in the population who just want fairness
Everyone, no matter their ethnicity, living here are integral to our community and if someone can stop the boats this issue will lanced
Yes, immigration has to be controlled (and it largely is). I think nearly everyone wants the boats to stop. It is government policy to get rid of migrant hotels. It is not far right or racist to want these things.
However, clearly some of the people protesting outside hotels and some of the people posting here are more generally anti-immigrant and want, in the words of one poster, more white babies.
There are extremes on both the right and the left but on the question of the boats and asylum hotels, it is unhelpful to brand those protesting and objecting as far right and racist when this is a view shared across many in the population and of course Starmer and Cooper would not be talking about deportation and even reclusing parts of the ECHR if they did not know this is a serious issue for them
It is a serious issue, yes. We agree on wanting to reduce the numbers coming over on boats and reduce the numbers staying in asylum hotels. However, those organising the hotel protests are objectively far right and racist. Those in the Epping Forest protests include, "Eddy Butler, a former British National Party (BNP) organiser previously linked to a violent neo-Nazi group; Callum Barker, an activist for the fascist Homeland Party; Toni Collins (AKA Ginger Toni), a key figure in the circle surrounding Tommy Robinson; Lance Wright, involved in the neo-Nazi music network Blood & Honour; former Combat 18 activist Phil Curson; and activists associated with the anti-Muslim group Britain First." See https://hopenothate.org.uk/2025/07/18/violence-at-the-bell-hotel-far-right-footprints-in-epping-forest/
Darren Jones appointed 'chief secretary to the PM', and put in charge of policy delivery Here is the Downing Street news release about the mini No 10 reshuffle, including Darren Jones becoming chief secretary (minister of state) to the PM. Jones was chief secretary to the Treasury.
Guardian blog
That's an interesting constitutional innovation. A recognition that the job of PM has expanded to be too much for one person.
Perhaps the PM could appoint a whole team of people to help with their job. They could each handle one area of government policy. You could call them a cupboard, or something like that.
Surprised Darren Jones has accepted the role, the Poison Chalice awarded to "the Minister who's shown everyone else up by appearing competent".
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
More economically inactive burdens on the taxpayer.
Dig deep wage slaves. Others need your money.
Why presume they will be economically inactive?
Because statistically that is the case for adults and clearly children brought won’t be.
Some will, some won't. They're not a homogenous whole. The children will grow up and become economically active, like children born here do.
If we those granted asylum and their families to be economically active, let's help them to be so by resolving asylum cases promptly, so people can enter the labour market, and providing educational support, e.g. improving people's English. Let's stop viewing anyone as a "burden on the taxpayer" and start viewing everyone as a potential asset to the country.
So the £7B a year hotel bill is an asset, who would have thought. They get everything else free on a plate why not add English lessons to their driving lessons, laptops, phones , etc. It is madness, we cannot employ our own wasters, so we pay a fortune to people on the dole and another fortune bringing in more wasters and then politicians wonder why things are crap. Viewing all this from ivory towers by bleeding heart wokes may look great but not so good if you are in the middle of it I bet. Some people are able to imagine that this is not the way forward and it will not end well if it continues.
Mr @Dura_Ace also misunderstands the word “approbation”. It means “formal or enthusiastic approval”. The sentence “approbation and sanctions” is therefore nonsense
The posh word he is forlornly seeking is “disapprobation” = “formal or severe disapproval”
I’ve never written a threader in my life. I only compose essays for folding money
What happened to the book game? Sales are supposed to be up, or do all the royalties go to JK Rowling and Richard Osman while most authors starve in garrets?
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
A definition of dependant gives:
a person who relies on another, especially a family member, for financial support.
Of course many of these 'dependants' aren't relying on a family member for financial support but on British taxpayers.
The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed.
More immigrants are in employment (77%) than UK-born individuals (75%).
Median yearly earnings for UK-born individuals in 2024 was £29,600 compared to £30,000 for non-EU immigrants and £31,100 for EU immigrants.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
A definition of dependant gives:
a person who relies on another, especially a family member, for financial support.
Of course many of these 'dependants' aren't relying on a family member for financial support but on British taxpayers.
The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed.
More immigrants are in employment (77%) than UK-born individuals (75%).
Median yearly earnings for UK-born individuals in 2024 was £29,600 compared to £30,000 for non-EU immigrants and £31,100 for EU immigrants.
You’re deliberately confusing an issue. I’m talking specifically about asylum seekers given leave to remain. As was the post I replied to.
You said, and I quote, "The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed." This tendency to confuse "immigrants" with "asylum seekers" with "illegal immigrants" is part of the problem. Perhaps it would help if everyone was a bit clearer what they meant.
No, I never said that.👍
Sorry @Taz . I wasn't paying attention to the thread and who was saying what. My apologies. I was replying to @another_richard 's point.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
This idea other countries don't take a share is bizarre.
More in many cases. The anger and commotion on account of not particularly high numbers of refugees and the demand for ever more draconian 'solutions' does not support the comforting idea that the British people are paragons of tolerance who have had their reserves of patience tested to destruction.
The one thing I agree on with what for sake of convenience I'll call Leonism is that the small boats (the bad migrant kind, not the good 1940 kind) touch something deep in the English psyche. The mentality that confuses having several billion gallons of water between England and mainland Europe with some kind of exceptional martial abilty, is now raging that neither our govenments or all that water can keep the invader out.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I’m afraid the conversation has moved on . Reform and the Tories don’t want even genuine asylum seekers. If you’re non white and here legally you’re likely get more abuse as the atmosphere becomes even more toxic .
I do not accept your generalisation that conservatives dont want genuine asylum seekers and do not forget it was the conservatives who offered sanctuary to Ukranians and those from Hong Kong
Immigration into the UK has to be controlled, and it is not helpful for some to label those wanting the boats and migrants hotels to be stopped as far right and racist, because this has spread way beyond the far right to many in the population who just want fairness
Everyone, no matter their ethnicity, living here are integral to our community and if someone can stop the boats this issue will lanced
Yes, immigration has to be controlled (and it largely is). I think nearly everyone wants the boats to stop. It is government policy to get rid of migrant hotels. It is not far right or racist to want these things.
However, clearly some of the people protesting outside hotels and some of the people posting here are more generally anti-immigrant and want, in the words of one poster, more white babies.
There are extremes on both the right and the left but on the question of the boats and asylum hotels, it is unhelpful to brand those protesting and objecting as far right and racist when this is a view shared across many in the population and of course Starmer and Cooper would not be talking about deportation and even reclusing parts of the ECHR if they did not know this is a serious issue for them
It is a serious issue, yes. We agree on wanting to reduce the numbers coming over on boats and reduce the numbers staying in asylum hotels. However, those organising the hotel protests are objectively far right and racist. Those in the Epping Forest protests include, "Eddy Butler, a former British National Party (BNP) organiser previously linked to a violent neo-Nazi group; Callum Barker, an activist for the fascist Homeland Party; Toni Collins (AKA Ginger Toni), a key figure in the circle surrounding Tommy Robinson; Lance Wright, involved in the neo-Nazi music network Blood & Honour; former Combat 18 activist Phil Curson; and activists associated with the anti-Muslim group Britain First." See https://hopenothate.org.uk/2025/07/18/violence-at-the-bell-hotel-far-right-footprints-in-epping-forest/
Indeed but again you miss the point that this is way beyond these agitators and is becoming the view of many of the population that the whole issue is unfair and has to be stopped
Both conservative and labour governments have singularity failed to address the problem which is spinning out of control
And the public dont just want the boats reduced, they want them stopped altogether
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I’m afraid the conversation has moved on . Reform and the Tories don’t want even genuine asylum seekers. If you’re non white and here legally you’re likely get more abuse as the atmosphere becomes even more toxic .
I do not accept your generalisation that conservatives dont want genuine asylum seekers and do not forget it was the conservatives who offered sanctuary to Ukranians and those from Hong Kong
Immigration into the UK has to be controlled, and it is not helpful for some to label those wanting the boats and migrants hotels to be stopped as far right and racist, because this has spread way beyond the far right to many in the population who just want fairness
Everyone, no matter their ethnicity, living here are integral to our community and if someone can stop the boats this issue will lanced
Yes, immigration has to be controlled (and it largely is). I think nearly everyone wants the boats to stop. It is government policy to get rid of migrant hotels. It is not far right or racist to want these things.
However, clearly some of the people protesting outside hotels and some of the people posting here are more generally anti-immigrant and want, in the words of one poster, more white babies.
Keeping illegal entry to 50K+ is great control for sure.
This will help. Only four houses but it’s hard enough to get on the property ladder.
Asylum seekers 'are given new £300k townhouses with en-suites, EV charging points and underfloor heating'... while locals battle to get on the property ladder
If you arrive here from France, you are not fleeing persecution.
So either piss off somewhere else, or live destitute on the street. Your choice.
Many Jews fleeing the Nazis in the 1930s went to France. Some kept going west, to the UK, the US etc. Many in the UK, like the Daily Mail, thought they should stay in France or piss off somewhere else. Those who did stay in France... well, about one in four were killed.
The Nazis have taken over France again?
The world is not the same, but the world remains unpredictable. It is useful to look at history to understand why we have the policies we have today. We tried Farage's policy in the 1930s and thousands died as a result. Paying to fly people back to Afghanistan would get people killed today.
Darren Jones appointed 'chief secretary to the PM', and put in charge of policy delivery Here is the Downing Street news release about the mini No 10 reshuffle, including Darren Jones becoming chief secretary (minister of state) to the PM. Jones was chief secretary to the Treasury.
Guardian blog
That's an interesting constitutional innovation. A recognition that the job of PM has expanded to be too much for one person.
Perhaps the PM could appoint a whole team of people to help with their job. They could each handle one area of government policy. You could call them a cupboard, or something like that.
Surprised Darren Jones has accepted the role, the Poison Chalice awarded to "the Minister who's shown everyone else up by appearing competent".
Sam Coates of Sky suggests he is de facto Deputy PM but don't tell anyone !!!!
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
You're aware that Britain gets a lot fewer migrants than the countries bordering the Med?
I've come to feel that the ECHR needs to be tightened up, balanced by making it possible to apply at the starting point instead of via the Channel.
"Even though irregular maritime arrivals are a small fraction of the total immigration to the UK, they have totemic potency way beyond their actual number."
If it was not for them, the racists would find something else to whip up a frenzy about.
There speaks a well off member of society, no inkling of what is going on at the bottom of the pile among the great unwashed.
The point is that the racists want some issue to be able to 'get' at immigrants. Currently, the main one is the boat arrivals. The fact that the frenzy they're stirring up is affecting the lives of immigrants who did not come on boats is irrelevant to them - as seen in several stories over the last couple of days. Or even a positive side-effect in their eyes. If the boat arrivals were to immediately stop, they would find some other issue with which to get at immigrants.
The current situation with asylum and the boats is unsustainable, for society and the asylum-seekers themselves. It needs improving. But even when it is, there will be some new anti-immigrant scandal that the racists will hook on to.
This will help. Only four houses but it’s hard enough to get on the property ladder.
Asylum seekers 'are given new £300k townhouses with en-suites, EV charging points and underfloor heating'... while locals battle to get on the property ladder
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
I think almost all British people support an asylum system - but in their minds this meant very few desperate cases via an international agreement where other countries each took a share. The result might be less than a hundred to the UK per year, say.
This faulty understanding bears no comparison to how the asylum system is being used and abused today, often with legal and other services paid for from our taxes.
It's not surprising the British are furious.
Yes. And as a result we have a hard right party leading by 15 points in the polls
At what point do Woke wankers understand they are leading us to a very British kind of Nazism? You cannot bottle up and silence that fury forever. If we want our liberal democracy to endure, we are going to have to be very illiberal, for about a decade, on all matters to do with migration, asylum, integration, Islam, etc. That way democracy survives, there is no other way
What's more, just as Australia shows you CAN deal with boats, Denmark has shown that you CAN preserve your democracy and exclude the far right from power, if the centrist parties are willing to get suitably tough. But you really do have to be tough: Denmark demolishes ethnic ghettoes. It sends in the bulldozers. It ignores the pleas of lefty EU lawyers and gets on with the task
As a result the Danish far right has been reduced to a rump
The centre party in Poland also saw off the far right. Their method - attack the underlying issues.
Why are people upset by migration? Because their community is getting poorer and they feel helpless. If people felt like they had good jobs and good pay and good services then there wouldn't be the same frustration.
I have said for a while that we should fear what comes after Farage - because he will fail. Lets assume that he is elected and he does all the things you suggest about migration. Go further - send it masked "patriots" to drag people away. After a period of euphoria people then ask if they are better off. And find not only things aren't getting better, they are getting worse.
We aren't having enough babies, we aren't training enough people to do the work we need. Which is why we had waves of migration. Take away the migrants and we have even fewer people paying taxes and doing critical work - and a government whose policies on practically everything that isn't migration work against the issues people cite as problems for them.
We saw this with Brexit. Vote leave. Take Back Control. Get Brexit Done. Fuck all positive changed in people's lives so they threw that government out. As they will Farage. But with so many governments having failed to go after the structural inequalities breaking western societies like ours, the trend is towards authoritarian solutions...
I like this take, RP, there's a lot in it and it's hopeful and it steers to the sort of politics (focus on reducing inequality) that I support.
But I increasingly struggle to hang onto it. The alternative view is this frenzy about migrants isn't driven by economics, what it's mainly about is racism - or xenophobic nativism if we wish to be kind - finding an outlet and its voice.
Most Reform supporters are not financially struggling and working class. The notion it's a predominantly 'redwall' uprising is false. And a very sobering stat from the other day, almost half of Reform supporters think the party should actively associate itself with Lucy Connolly. I mean, wow or what?
Policy Exchange which made up some rubbish about leaving the ECHR not being a problem for NI are being torn to shreds today . Jack Straw who cluelessly supported their view needs to STFU and stop embarrassing himself .
I’m surprised that the right haven’t suggested towing the small boats to just outside the Belgian 12 mile limit, so that that there Brussels has to sort them out.
"Even though irregular maritime arrivals are a small fraction of the total immigration to the UK, they have totemic potency way beyond their actual number."
If it was not for them, the racists would find something else to whip up a frenzy about.
There speaks a well off member of society, no inkling of what is going on at the bottom of the pile among the great unwashed.
The point is that the racists want some issue to be able to 'get' at immigrants. Currently, the main one is the boat arrivals. The fact that the frenzy they're stirring up is affecting the lives of immigrants who did not come on boats is irrelevant to them - as seen in several stories over the last couple of days. Or even a positive side-effect in their eyes. If the boat arrivals were to immediately stop, they would find some other issue with which to get at immigrants.
The current situation with asylum and the boats is unsustainable, for society and the asylum-seekers themselves. It needs improving. But even when it is, there will be some new anti-immigrant scandal that the racists will hook on to.
On this point watch Sky News at 10.30am on their report from Nuneaton
It is very disturbing and why the boats have to be stopped urgently when I believe the oxygen will be removed from the right and racist
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
More economically inactive burdens on the taxpayer.
Dig deep wage slaves. Others need your money.
Why presume they will be economically inactive?
Because statistically that is the case for adults and clearly children brought won’t be.
Some will, some won't. They're not a homogenous whole. The children will grow up and become economically active, like children born here do.
If we those granted asylum and their families to be economically active, let's help them to be so by resolving asylum cases promptly, so people can enter the labour market, and providing educational support, e.g. improving people's English. Let's stop viewing anyone as a "burden on the taxpayer" and start viewing everyone as a potential asset to the country.
So the £7B a year hotel bill is an asset, who would have thought. They get everything else free on a plate why not add English lessons to their driving lessons, laptops, phones , etc. It is madness, we cannot employ our own wasters, so we pay a fortune to people on the dole and another fortune bringing in more wasters and then politicians wonder why things are crap. Viewing all this from ivory towers by bleeding heart wokes may look great but not so good if you are in the middle of it I bet. Some people are able to imagine that this is not the way forward and it will not end well if it continues.
It is in our interests that immigrants speak English.
Actually it's very hard to learn English in the UK, there are very basic English courses but if you want more than that you have to attend adult literacy or GCSE classes for adults, which of course are aimed at native speakers
I tend to assume that economic migrants should learn English at their own expense, but where are the coursrs they can pay for?
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
A definition of dependant gives:
a person who relies on another, especially a family member, for financial support.
Of course many of these 'dependants' aren't relying on a family member for financial support but on British taxpayers.
The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed.
More immigrants are in employment (77%) than UK-born individuals (75%).
Median yearly earnings for UK-born individuals in 2024 was £29,600 compared to £30,000 for non-EU immigrants and £31,100 for EU immigrants.
The illegal immigrants who are trying to claim false asylum are to blame for any genuine asylum seekers being poorly treated. The temptation to put it on the public, who are rightly concerned about tens of thousands of chancers slipping into their society, should be resisted.
I doubt many people are against genuine refugees being given a home and integrated into British life, but what we are actually getting is thousands of young men with no real claim to be here, making Britain resemble the third world they came from
I also had no idea - until today - that once they get asylum status they can ask to be reunited with their family - wife and six kids in Aleppo or Kabul - and that is nearly automatically allowed. We apply none of the usual criteria - English language, spousal income
In other words we have set up an informal and easily gamed migration route for entire families, and unsurprisingly chancers are exploiting it
We have to cease offering all asylum for five or ten years and deport hundreds of thousands already here
And those 'family' would be classed as legal immigrants.
Its one of the reasons why 'dependants' have increased as a proportion of immigrants.
A definition of dependant gives:
a person who relies on another, especially a family member, for financial support.
Of course many of these 'dependants' aren't relying on a family member for financial support but on British taxpayers.
The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed.
More immigrants are in employment (77%) than UK-born individuals (75%).
Median yearly earnings for UK-born individuals in 2024 was £29,600 compared to £30,000 for non-EU immigrants and £31,100 for EU immigrants.
You’re deliberately confusing an issue. I’m talking specifically about asylum seekers given leave to remain. As was the post I replied to.
You said, and I quote, "The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed." This tendency to confuse "immigrants" with "asylum seekers" with "illegal immigrants" is part of the problem. Perhaps it would help if everyone was a bit clearer what they meant.
No, I never said that.👍
Sorry @Taz . I wasn't paying attention to the thread and who was saying what. My apologies. I was replying to @another_richard 's point.
Comments
Hard right: WE ARE BEING OVERWHELMED WITH NEW ARRIVALS
Reality: New arrivals at their lowest level in years
There is a long term problem, not the immediate crisis being whipped up by racist nutters.
As for Leon's piteous whine about his sadly diminished attention span, the first two sentences could have been written just for him.
In two significant ways, Reform UK supporters, and that subset which knows how to hold a writing implement and thus become Reform UK voters, are like senior military officers. First, they only want to hear things that they already know to be true. Second, they assume that anything they don’t personally understand must be simple.
Next.
a person who relies on another, especially a family member, for financial support.
Of course many of these 'dependants' aren't relying on a family member for financial support but on British taxpayers.
The number of immigrants in receipt of any financial assistance from the UK government should be revealed.
At what point do Woke wankers understand they are leading us to a very British kind of Nazism? You cannot bottle up and silence that fury forever. If we want our liberal democracy to endure, we are going to have to be very illiberal, for about a decade, on all matters to do with migration, asylum, integration, Islam, etc. That way democracy survives, there is no other way
What's more, just as Australia shows you CAN deal with boats, Denmark has shown that you CAN preserve your democracy and exclude the far right from power, if the centrist parties are willing to get suitably tough. But you really do have to be tough: Denmark demolishes ethnic ghettoes. It sends in the bulldozers. It ignores the pleas of lefty EU lawyers and gets on with the task
As a result the Danish far right has been reduced to a rump
https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/denmark-european-election-how-center-fended-off-populist-right-by-michael-ehrenreich-2024-06
Immigration into the UK has to be controlled, and it is not helpful for some to label those wanting the boats and migrants hotels to be stopped as far right and racist, because this has spread way beyond the far right to many in the population who just want fairness
Everyone, no matter their ethnicity, living here are integral to our community and if someone can stop the boats this issue will lanced
So any sense that numbers would be less than a hundred is complete fantasy.
That said, the parallel does suggest that people are generally more accepting of refugees from a specific group where they are aware of the reasons why that group is fleeing to Britain. Thus @Casino_Royale talking about making an exception for refugees from Hong Kong and Ukraine.
The bad feeling arises in part because asylum seekers are presented as an undifferentiated horde from countries about which we know little.
I just find it hard to believe we will still have 50,000 people annually coming over in boats in 2029. If we DO then it either means there is some war going on in mainland Europe, or Starmer's Labour are indeed the worst government in human history, and as a result will be outpolled at the next GE by Mebyon Kernow
Of course you and others will be loudly blaming Woke for that Nazism while ironing your black shorts.
Dig deep wage slaves. Others need your money.
I'm bringing a couple of pairs home from Bad Aussee tomorrow, I am quite in love with the whole Austrian *look*
Why are people upset by migration? Because their community is getting poorer and they feel helpless. If people felt like they had good jobs and good pay and good services then there wouldn't be the same frustration.
I have said for a while that we should fear what comes after Farage - because he will fail. Lets assume that he is elected and he does all the things you suggest about migration. Go further - send it masked "patriots" to drag people away. After a period of euphoria people then ask if they are better off. And find not only things aren't getting better, they are getting worse.
We aren't having enough babies, we aren't training enough people to do the work we need. Which is why we had waves of migration. Take away the migrants and we have even fewer people paying taxes and doing critical work - and a government whose policies on practically everything that isn't migration work against the issues people cite as problems for them.
We saw this with Brexit. Vote leave. Take Back Control. Get Brexit Done. Fuck all positive changed in people's lives so they threw that government out. As they will Farage. But with so many governments having failed to go after the structural inequalities breaking western societies like ours, the trend is towards authoritarian solutions...
The Home Secretary appears to have noticed.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/sep/01/uk-to-make-it-harder-for-refugees-to-bring-family-members-to-country
In 2023 polling, more people said immigration should be made easier rather than harder for...
Non-British partners of British citizens and permanent residents
EU nationals
Students
People from Hong Kong
People from Ukraine
Hospitality staff
Lorry drivers
Construction workers
Farm and agricultural workers
Care workers for older people
High-skilled workers
Financial sector workers
IT specialists
Teachers
Engineers
Scientists and researchers
NHS staff
Workers in jobs where there are shortages
But more people said immigration should be made harder rather than easier for...
People applying for asylum
People from Afghanistan
Low-skilled workers
Though as posted earlier, I doubt the inflatables are robust enough to be towed and you'll end up with people in the water.
It will be like a mix of those events in harbours where people make gliders to fly off the harbour wall, Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines, the Krypton Factor and the Hunger Games.
I expect to see home made hot air balloons, giant trebuchets firing migrants over the Channel, people disguised as Porpoises swimming valiantly past the guard boats.
It’s the asylum route entertainment the people need all sponsored by Red Bull.
So either piss off somewhere else, or live destitute on the street. Your choice.
X
George Eaton@georgeeaton
Liz Lloyd, Starmer’s policy director, is leaving her role.
I reported back in June on the clashes between the former Blair aide and the soft leftish No 10 Policy Unit.
https://x.com/georgeeaton/status/1962433512524402769
Utterly bewildering we ever allowed such a generous system to operate in the first place. And predictably maddening that first the Tories then Labour (until now) have never moved to close it down
My hunch is that this issue is now baked in. The public mood has gone far beyond "the boats" and is now anti-immigration in general, and to a pretty severe degree., and it is probably irreversible, until dramatic changes occur
It's sad. We had a pretty harmonious country, with flaws, until 10-20 years ago. Grotesque ineptitude - or outright treachery - has squandered this inheritance
What’s changed ? The public seems to have had enough and the old tactic of just telling everyone they are racist for not being happy clappy about mass inward migration no longer works.
They talk tough, which infuriates a lot of people on the left, but they don't actually do anything, which maddens everyone on the right. And then they accuse everyone but themselves of "racism", which makes millions of people shrug and say "what the heck, so I'm a racist, might as well vote Reform"
Hence the polls
Farage looks set to win. Farage will undoubtedly remove some migrants. And people's lives will continue to become increasingly poor and shit.
We need to look at what is driving people mad. "migrants" is the symptom, not the cause.
.. the public loved the sexually explicit Alpine slapstick, and the movie attracted more viewers than any other that year in Germany -- and kicked off a film series that would rake in some 12 million deutsche marks (roughly €6 million).
Germany was seized by a veritable lederhosen fever, and "Made in Germany" soft-porn films inundated domestic theaters. Among Marischka's own titles in this flood was "From Lederhosen with Love 2 -- Two Buddies in the Meadow" (1974), "Two Danes in Lederhosen" (1978) and "Three Lederhosen on St. Tropez" (1980). There were also plenty of copy-cats films on the market, with catchy titles like "The Lederhosen Itch When You're Yodeling" (1974) or "From Lederhosen with Love -- Where the Torrent Whooshes through the Knickers" (1974). In fact, there was also reportedly a sharp and sudden increase in the number of people overnighting in Pfronten, where "From Lederhosen with Love" was filmed.
https://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/the-1970s-craze-for-lederhosen-porn-from-bavaria-germany-a-889164.html
Median yearly earnings for UK-born individuals in 2024 was £29,600 compared to £30,000 for non-EU immigrants and £31,100 for EU immigrants.
Numbers from https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-labour-market-an-overview/
I’m talking about Blair’s moral cowardice for enable a huge increase in inward migration while failing to make the case for it and even complaining, as Cameron did, it was too high and they needed to do something about it. While doing nothing.
Here is the Downing Street news release about the mini No 10 reshuffle, including Darren Jones becoming chief secretary (minister of state) to the PM. Jones was chief secretary to the Treasury.
Guardian blog
However, clearly some of the people protesting outside hotels and some of the people posting here are more generally anti-immigrant and want, in the words of one poster, more white babies.
I hope I'm wrong and I also hope some government can steer us back to a more peaceful place. But the prospects are bleak, as of now
All of which is quite depressing so I'm gonna do some work then head out for some Austrian sunshine. Tschuss!
Again, as filling the workforce gaps is now seen as treason, we have two choices:
1) A national campaign to get people shagging. Get the birthrate up significantly. Combined with a significant long term investment to train "British" people to be plumbers, doctors, chefs, engineers.
2) Successfully deport the "pakis" (note how that word keeps coming back as the label for everyone) and suffer a sharp national decline as patriots fail to train up as plumbers, doctors, chefs, engineers and fail to have more babies because nobody wants to shag them
Whole country is F***ed , far too easy on benefits , all done by phone and unlimited access for illegals who then bring in extended families etc.
OK for politicians though , they can go about buying £800K holiday homes and avoid any taxes on them etc.
I am extremely glad I am not one of the poor sods in bottom quartile of UK heap.
If we those granted asylum and their families to be economically active, let's help them to be so by resolving asylum cases promptly, so people can enter the labour market, and providing educational support, e.g. improving people's English. Let's stop viewing anyone as a "burden on the taxpayer" and start viewing everyone as a potential asset to the country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Danish_general_election
F plus OE (the far left) are up from 13 to 21, while AE plus O (the far right) are up from 8 to 17. The article correctly says they are both kept out of power because of solid centrist coalitions (moderate left and moderate right). That's the way that PR systems avoid chaos, but one can't maintain the position indefinitely.
Perhaps the PM could appoint a whole team of people to help with their job. They could each handle one area of government policy. You could call them a cupboard, or something like that.
Asylum seekers 'are given new £300k townhouses with en-suites, EV charging points and underfloor heating'... while locals battle to get on the property ladder
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15052977/asylum-seekers-300k-townhouses-en-suites-Suffolk-village.html
It is madness, we cannot employ our own wasters, so we pay a fortune to people on the dole and another fortune bringing in more wasters and then politicians wonder why things are crap.
Viewing all this from ivory towers by bleeding heart wokes may look great but not so good if you are in the middle of it I bet.
Some people are able to imagine that this is not the way forward and it will not end well if it continues.
Both conservative and labour governments have singularity failed to address the problem which is spinning out of control
And the public dont just want the boats reduced, they want them stopped altogether
I've come to feel that the ECHR needs to be tightened up, balanced by making it possible to apply at the starting point instead of via the Channel.
The current situation with asylum and the boats is unsustainable, for society and the asylum-seekers themselves. It needs improving. But even when it is, there will be some new anti-immigrant scandal that the racists will hook on to.
But I increasingly struggle to hang onto it. The alternative view is this frenzy about migrants isn't driven by economics, what it's mainly about is racism - or xenophobic nativism if we wish to be kind - finding an outlet and its voice.
Most Reform supporters are not financially struggling and working class. The notion it's a predominantly 'redwall' uprising is false. And a very sobering stat from the other day, almost half of Reform supporters think the party should actively associate itself with Lucy Connolly. I mean, wow or what?
It is very disturbing and why the boats have to be stopped urgently when I believe the oxygen will be removed from the right and racist
Actually it's very hard to learn English in the UK, there are very basic English courses but if you want more than that you have to attend adult literacy or GCSE classes for adults, which of course are aimed at native speakers
I tend to assume that economic migrants should learn English at their own expense, but where are the coursrs they can pay for?