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Voters don’t like Farage’s Taliban tax – politicalbetting.com

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  • PJHPJH Posts: 897
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    I doubt it; that question is horribly leading and yet another tear in Yougov's increasingly tattered reputation.

    Reform could (and perhaps will) respond with polling showing a big majority in favour of their policy due to an equally leading question, and therefore polls become weapons of propaganda rather than useful indicators of public sentiment.

    ...which is pretty much what happened in the USA.

    RefUK really are using the tactics of their MAGA mates to the maximum possible, but it remains to be seen how for this works in a Parliamentary rather than a Presidential system. I think the best RefUK can do is gain enough seats to get a deadlock in the House of Commons, but actually taking power, especially with growing investigation of their policies and personnel seems like a very big ask indeed.
    With Lab and Con both on around 18-20%, LD on 14-17% and a Jez n'mates party on 15%, the FPTP system pretty much guarantees a majority for Reform on even a low 30s result.
    If the last 48 hours is anything to go by good luck with that low thirties. The Sultanas could be out in front by then.
    A split left, with Sultana tendencies leading, will I suspect drive centrist voters towards the expected bulwark against them.

    Tories and LDs for Reform; you heard it here first.
    LDs and One Nation Tories would never vote Reform and the Sultana Corbyn party looks like getting less than ten percent anyway
    If there were only Tory and Reform candidates in my patch, I might consider it
    :o
    We already know the Tories are incompetent and self-serving. And voting for them is just a vote for returning to the two-party status quo, whereas at least Reform, whilst likely just as incompetent and self-serving as the Tories, at least offers the prospect of 'breaking' the system.
    Let's hope that there are no seats where the only choice is Tory or Reform. What a choice!
    My own seat of Brentwood and Ongar had the Tories first and Reform second at the GE, overall there are likely to be 100 such seats at least given the higher Reform voteshare now and where the MP is still Tory
    Yes and there will be a lot of voters there who wouldn't even think of voting Tory there, to keep Reform out. I certainly wouldn't.
    I might, I could stomach voting for Alex Burghart but I would need an absolutely cast iron guarantee from the leader of the Conservative party during the election campaign that they will support a minority Labour government if doing so is necessary to keep Reform out.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,085
    edited August 28
    Taz said:
    It might be little change, it's a weekly poll so that's what you would expect, but it's the biggest Reform lead and joint-lowest Tory score
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,451
    Barnesian said:

    BBC WATO going in very big on the sacking of Starmer's head of policy.

    No criticism yesterday of the Farage catastrophuck U turn, but boots on for a Starmer kicking.

    Does a Farage free pass counterbalanced with a critique of Starmer demonstrate BBC impartiality?

    I made the following complaint to the BBC ...

    With all the important news in the world, the most important news is not a speech by Farage for god's sake!!

    This is so unbalanced that I question the impartiality of the editor.

    Who was the named individual who made this editorial decision?
    Have you knowledge of their political allegiance e.g. their social media posts?

    Will you please fire them, or at least, move them off news?

    ----------
    And got a response

    Thank you for contacting us,

    BBC Complaints Team
    www.bbc.co.uk/complaints"
    That would be Robbie Gibb
    WATO does appear to be particularly subservient to the political bias of senior managers, though R4 news is poor throughout.
    I was amazed to hear an interview the other day on a topic from someone who was clearly an expert in the field, the journalist allowed them to complete their points without interruption and asked questions that were inquiring rather than leading questions designed to enforce their own prejudice.
    Then I realized that I was still tuned to Radio 5 live from the football the night before.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,467
    Scott_xP said:

    Just wait for model Y

    Tesla sales in Europe slump 40% as BYD new car registrations more than triple

    Electric car business run by Elon Musk continues to lose ground to Chinese rival despite recent revamp of Model Y

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/aug/28/tesla-sales-in-europe-slump-byd-new-car-registrations-more-than-triple-elon-musk

    Electric cars eligible for £3,750 discount announced
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgvywyev1do

    The coffers are empty but we are subsidising foreign car-makers. You couldn't make it up.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,085
    kamski said:

    Latest report about the Nordstream sabotage investigations:

    https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/nord-stream-sabotage-104.html

    Investigators seem pretty sure they know the names of the Ukrainians who did it, and they have evidence of Ukrainian state involvement.

    If that's the case, it's a pretty cool operation on the part of the Ukrainians, at the time it happened, a lot of people thought they didn't have the means.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,426
    One for the WW1 historians - Jacob’s Horse as a Regiment. Wonder why the Germans wanted to take on an Empire?


  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,647
    edited August 28
    What a glorious corner of the world
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,716
    edited August 28
    Taz said:
    Reform struggling to get much above 30%?
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,697

    Scott_xP said:

    Just wait for model Y

    Tesla sales in Europe slump 40% as BYD new car registrations more than triple

    Electric car business run by Elon Musk continues to lose ground to Chinese rival despite recent revamp of Model Y

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/aug/28/tesla-sales-in-europe-slump-byd-new-car-registrations-more-than-triple-elon-musk

    Electric cars eligible for £3,750 discount announced
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgvywyev1do

    The coffers are empty but we are subsidising foreign car-makers. You couldn't make it up.
    And subsiding people wealthy enough to buy a new car.
    Crazy. We’re supposed to have a 50 billion GBP black hole.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,146
    Taz said:
    Ref 34% (+1)
    Lab 18% (nc)
    Con 15% (-2)
    LD 13% (+1)
    Grn 10% (nc)
    SNP 2% (-1)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,136
    kamski said:

    Latest report about the Nordstream sabotage investigations:

    https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/nord-stream-sabotage-104.html

    Investigators seem pretty sure they know the names of the Ukrainians who did it, and they have evidence of Ukrainian state involvement.

    What JAfar's parrot said.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,451
    IanB2 said:

    Bad news for our pro genocide posters, even The Telegraph are churning out pro Hamas content now.

    Seven common tropes used to deny Gaza’s famine, debunked by an expert

    The chorus of denial around serious food insecurity in the Strip is more than falsehood – it is active disinformation


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/terror-and-security/seven-common-tropes-used-to-deny-gazas-famine-debunked/?recomm_id=718d1aa1-2bf3-47d2-be01-378a750cbcfb

    The truth, and the full horror of it, will out in the end, as it always does. Presumably Israel's PM is working to a shorter time horizon and doesnt care about the longer term consequences for his country, and its reputation
    Does it?
    We don't really acknowledge the American and Australian genocides amongst others, watching the manhunt episode of Rise of the Nazis I learnt that the German's didn't really acknowledge the holocaust until the late 70s.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,545

    kamski said:

    Latest report about the Nordstream sabotage investigations:

    https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/nord-stream-sabotage-104.html

    Investigators seem pretty sure they know the names of the Ukrainians who did it, and they have evidence of Ukrainian state involvement.

    If that's the case, it's a pretty cool operation on the part of the Ukrainians, at the time it happened, a lot of people thought they didn't have the means.
    Bloody stupid if you ask me
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,744
    Barnesian said:

    BBC WATO going in very big on the sacking of Starmer's head of policy.

    No criticism yesterday of the Farage catastrophuck U turn, but boots on for a Starmer kicking.

    Does a Farage free pass counterbalanced with a critique of Starmer demonstrate BBC impartiality?

    I made the following complaint to the BBC ...

    With all the important news in the world, the most important news is not a speech by Farage for god's sake!!

    This is so unbalanced that I question the impartiality of the editor.

    Who was the named individual who made this editorial decision?
    Have you knowledge of their political allegiance e.g. their social media posts?

    Will you please fire them, or at least, move them off news?

    ----------
    And got a response

    Thank you for contacting us,

    BBC Complaints Team
    www.bbc.co.uk/complaints"
    I'd call that a result.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,467
    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,302
    PJH said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    I doubt it; that question is horribly leading and yet another tear in Yougov's increasingly tattered reputation.

    Reform could (and perhaps will) respond with polling showing a big majority in favour of their policy due to an equally leading question, and therefore polls become weapons of propaganda rather than useful indicators of public sentiment.

    ...which is pretty much what happened in the USA.

    RefUK really are using the tactics of their MAGA mates to the maximum possible, but it remains to be seen how for this works in a Parliamentary rather than a Presidential system. I think the best RefUK can do is gain enough seats to get a deadlock in the House of Commons, but actually taking power, especially with growing investigation of their policies and personnel seems like a very big ask indeed.
    With Lab and Con both on around 18-20%, LD on 14-17% and a Jez n'mates party on 15%, the FPTP system pretty much guarantees a majority for Reform on even a low 30s result.
    If the last 48 hours is anything to go by good luck with that low thirties. The Sultanas could be out in front by then.
    A split left, with Sultana tendencies leading, will I suspect drive centrist voters towards the expected bulwark against them.

    Tories and LDs for Reform; you heard it here first.
    LDs and One Nation Tories would never vote Reform and the Sultana Corbyn party looks like getting less than ten percent anyway
    If there were only Tory and Reform candidates in my patch, I might consider it
    :o
    We already know the Tories are incompetent and self-serving. And voting for them is just a vote for returning to the two-party status quo, whereas at least Reform, whilst likely just as incompetent and self-serving as the Tories, at least offers the prospect of 'breaking' the system.
    Let's hope that there are no seats where the only choice is Tory or Reform. What a choice!
    My own seat of Brentwood and Ongar had the Tories first and Reform second at the GE, overall there are likely to be 100 such seats at least given the higher Reform voteshare now and where the MP is still Tory
    Yes and there will be a lot of voters there who wouldn't even think of voting Tory there, to keep Reform out. I certainly wouldn't.
    I might, I could stomach voting for Alex Burghart but I would need an absolutely cast iron guarantee from the leader of the Conservative party during the election campaign that they will support a minority Labour government if doing so is necessary to keep Reform out.
    That would likely lead to more votes leaking to Reform than are gained.

    Oh and thousands would cancel their membership too.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,744
    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:
    Ref 34% (+1)
    Lab 18% (nc)
    Con 15% (-2)
    LD 13% (+1)
    Grn 10% (nc)
    SNP 2% (-1)
    And it's the Findoutnow gold standard.

    Was this poll taken before the Reform policy fiasco this week?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,136
    Mortimer said:

    PJH said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    I doubt it; that question is horribly leading and yet another tear in Yougov's increasingly tattered reputation.

    Reform could (and perhaps will) respond with polling showing a big majority in favour of their policy due to an equally leading question, and therefore polls become weapons of propaganda rather than useful indicators of public sentiment.

    ...which is pretty much what happened in the USA.

    RefUK really are using the tactics of their MAGA mates to the maximum possible, but it remains to be seen how for this works in a Parliamentary rather than a Presidential system. I think the best RefUK can do is gain enough seats to get a deadlock in the House of Commons, but actually taking power, especially with growing investigation of their policies and personnel seems like a very big ask indeed.
    With Lab and Con both on around 18-20%, LD on 14-17% and a Jez n'mates party on 15%, the FPTP system pretty much guarantees a majority for Reform on even a low 30s result.
    If the last 48 hours is anything to go by good luck with that low thirties. The Sultanas could be out in front by then.
    A split left, with Sultana tendencies leading, will I suspect drive centrist voters towards the expected bulwark against them.

    Tories and LDs for Reform; you heard it here first.
    LDs and One Nation Tories would never vote Reform and the Sultana Corbyn party looks like getting less than ten percent anyway
    If there were only Tory and Reform candidates in my patch, I might consider it
    :o
    We already know the Tories are incompetent and self-serving. And voting for them is just a vote for returning to the two-party status quo, whereas at least Reform, whilst likely just as incompetent and self-serving as the Tories, at least offers the prospect of 'breaking' the system.
    Let's hope that there are no seats where the only choice is Tory or Reform. What a choice!
    My own seat of Brentwood and Ongar had the Tories first and Reform second at the GE, overall there are likely to be 100 such seats at least given the higher Reform voteshare now and where the MP is still Tory
    Yes and there will be a lot of voters there who wouldn't even think of voting Tory there, to keep Reform out. I certainly wouldn't.
    I might, I could stomach voting for Alex Burghart but I would need an absolutely cast iron guarantee from the leader of the Conservative party during the election campaign that they will support a minority Labour government if doing so is necessary to keep Reform out.
    That would likely lead to more votes leaking to Reform than are gained.

    Oh and thousands would cancel their membership too.
    They still have a membership that numbers in the thousands?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,744
    OllyT said:

    Forgive me if this has been raised before, but I am baffled by the time spent considering the Sultanas/Jezbollah as a credible political force. Where is their support going to come from? OK, I agree, the appalling situation in Gaza gives them a cause around which they can rally, but when a General Election comes, surely they are going to end up in the same category as the SWP, Communists, TUSC, IRP and all the other ideologically based left wing parties. Yes, they think Labour is doing a bad job (and so do I) but the average Labour voter isn't going to give much consideration to Corbyn - he's yesterday's man, and widely seen as a man who tried but failed. (Clegg and Johnson also come into that category.)

    No, if left-wing ideological voters want to punish the Labour Party then they will vote Green (or Nationalist, if one is available.) They might, at a stretch, think that the Lib Dems are pointless, but at least they are seen to be "sound" on Gaza, Trump, etc and a vote for them might get rid of another Tory. But this new Leftist concept has arrived too late in a crowded political marketplace, and their weaknesses (leadership, nomenclature, half-cocked launch etc) are already plain to see, long before the PR hatchet-men in ther Labour Party get to work on them.

    So, ignore them - they are not relevant now, and will not be at the next General Election.

    The nascent political grouping without a final name yet that is built around the Independent Alliance grouping have 6 MPs already. That makes them the fifth largest party in the Commons and 50% bigger than the Green Party. If the Green Party elect Polanski as their leader, as seems likely, you might have two parties looking rather similar, so which populist left firebrand do you want? Polanski or the original, Corbyn? Or maybe it's Polanski vs Sultana? Polanski wants an alliance, although Corbyn is sceptical of that. But my point is that I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Your Party. They might come out ahead of a tussle with the Greens, or part of a formal alliance with the Greens. Or they might sink without a trace.
    I'm a former MP for 13 years (not all that left-wing, though I was happy with Corbyn as leader), and have been a member of Labour since I was 21; I'm currently chair of my constituency CLP. I'm fed up with the negative slant of the current Labour leadership, but don't feel the Greens or the LibDems offer a coherent alternative, let alone a left-wing one, though I'd be open to the possibility of alliance. I'm therefore a possible switcher if the new party offers a coherent, largely positive alternative. If they end up like the SWP, certainly not, but we'll see.

    There are lots of Labour people like me - at least 25% of the membership, I'd say - and we are not exclusively basing our choices on probability to win outright We feel the voters are in sufficient flux to give a serious leftish party a reasonable chance. We might be wrong, but it's a mistake to assume we don't exist.
    I have been left of centre all of my life and only left the Labour party during Corbyn's reign. I think you are going to find that there is a very limited market for a party that appears to prioritise the interest of Palestinians over the interests of British people.

    However much I deplore Netanyahu's actions I know that Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran are the far greater threat to me than Israel will ever be. Much of the concern about the boats and asylum seekers is actually concern/fear about the impact of political islam on the UK and if you wish to dismiss/ridicule that as racist then so be it.

    It saddens me that all over Europe the left cannot see how islamic immigration is fuelling the far right. The day I hear Corbyn unequivocally criticising the mysogeny and homophobia of Hamas and their fellow travellers (or indeed many muslims in the UK) is the day I might listen to what he has to say but I know it will never happen
    Me too. I hope Nick hasn't fallen for the Corbyn belief that a lifetime in Opposition is far more productive than a day in Government.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,748
    @kyledcheney

    JUST IN: Lisa Cook's forthcoming lawsuit to contest her firing appears to list Trump *and* Fed Chairman Jerome Powell as defendants.

    https://x.com/kyledcheney/status/1961058743497400549
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,748
    @TimesSport

    📣 Four-times Tour de France winner Chris Froome is to undergo surgery in Toulon after suffering five broken ribs and a fractured spine in a crash

    https://x.com/TimesSport/status/1961059732174586318
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,744
    Leon said:

    What a glorious corner of the world

    I love Frinton-on-Sea too.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,523
    Dopermean said:

    Barnesian said:

    BBC WATO going in very big on the sacking of Starmer's head of policy.

    No criticism yesterday of the Farage catastrophuck U turn, but boots on for a Starmer kicking.

    Does a Farage free pass counterbalanced with a critique of Starmer demonstrate BBC impartiality?

    I made the following complaint to the BBC ...

    With all the important news in the world, the most important news is not a speech by Farage for god's sake!!

    This is so unbalanced that I question the impartiality of the editor.

    Who was the named individual who made this editorial decision?
    Have you knowledge of their political allegiance e.g. their social media posts?

    Will you please fire them, or at least, move them off news?

    ----------
    And got a response

    Thank you for contacting us,

    BBC Complaints Team
    www.bbc.co.uk/complaints"
    That would be Robbie Gibb
    WATO does appear to be particularly subservient to the political bias of senior managers, though R4 news is poor throughout.
    I was amazed to hear an interview the other day on a topic from someone who was clearly an expert in the field, the journalist allowed them to complete their points without interruption and asked questions that were inquiring rather than leading questions designed to enforce their own prejudice.
    Then I realized that I was still tuned to Radio 5 live from the football the night before.
    Listened to PM for the first time in ages last night.
    You get more serious political analysis from Chris Sutton and Robbie Savage on 606.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,434

    Scott_xP said:

    Just wait for model Y

    Tesla sales in Europe slump 40% as BYD new car registrations more than triple

    Electric car business run by Elon Musk continues to lose ground to Chinese rival despite recent revamp of Model Y

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/aug/28/tesla-sales-in-europe-slump-byd-new-car-registrations-more-than-triple-elon-musk

    Electric cars eligible for £3,750 discount announced
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgvywyev1do

    The coffers are empty but we are subsidising foreign car-makers. You couldn't make it up.
    Far too timid.

    If you want to facilitate a switch to electric, put the fossil fuel ones UP by £3750.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,126
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Just wait for model Y

    Tesla sales in Europe slump 40% as BYD new car registrations more than triple

    Electric car business run by Elon Musk continues to lose ground to Chinese rival despite recent revamp of Model Y

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/aug/28/tesla-sales-in-europe-slump-byd-new-car-registrations-more-than-triple-elon-musk

    Electric cars eligible for £3,750 discount announced
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgvywyev1do

    The coffers are empty but we are subsidising foreign car-makers. You couldn't make it up.
    Far too timid.

    If you want to facilitate a switch to electric, put the fossil fuel ones UP by £3750.
    Courageous.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,697
    US Q2 2025 GDP revised upwards from 3.0% to 3.3%

    So we have growth, rising inflation and the Fed are going to cut in September !
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,685

    As somebody to the left of current Labour, I'm struggling to see the Corbyn/Sultana vehicle being a success. I just don't know where the leadership will come from. Corbyn is too old and has too much baggage. Sultana is intemperate and often quite foolish - for example, her insistence that Starmer and Lammy should be tried at The Hague for war crimes over Gaza is plain daft. But I really can't think of any credible leader, let alone a (shadow) leadership team.

    So you don't think Sultana will be raisin the bar in the currant party leader stakes?
    Do you think the Sun may(d) support her?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,716
    OllyT said:

    Forgive me if this has been raised before, but I am baffled by the time spent considering the Sultanas/Jezbollah as a credible political force. Where is their support going to come from? OK, I agree, the appalling situation in Gaza gives them a cause around which they can rally, but when a General Election comes, surely they are going to end up in the same category as the SWP, Communists, TUSC, IRP and all the other ideologically based left wing parties. Yes, they think Labour is doing a bad job (and so do I) but the average Labour voter isn't going to give much consideration to Corbyn - he's yesterday's man, and widely seen as a man who tried but failed. (Clegg and Johnson also come into that category.)

    No, if left-wing ideological voters want to punish the Labour Party then they will vote Green (or Nationalist, if one is available.) They might, at a stretch, think that the Lib Dems are pointless, but at least they are seen to be "sound" on Gaza, Trump, etc and a vote for them might get rid of another Tory. But this new Leftist concept has arrived too late in a crowded political marketplace, and their weaknesses (leadership, nomenclature, half-cocked launch etc) are already plain to see, long before the PR hatchet-men in ther Labour Party get to work on them.

    So, ignore them - they are not relevant now, and will not be at the next General Election.

    The nascent political grouping without a final name yet that is built around the Independent Alliance grouping have 6 MPs already. That makes them the fifth largest party in the Commons and 50% bigger than the Green Party. If the Green Party elect Polanski as their leader, as seems likely, you might have two parties looking rather similar, so which populist left firebrand do you want? Polanski or the original, Corbyn? Or maybe it's Polanski vs Sultana? Polanski wants an alliance, although Corbyn is sceptical of that. But my point is that I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Your Party. They might come out ahead of a tussle with the Greens, or part of a formal alliance with the Greens. Or they might sink without a trace.
    I'm a former MP for 13 years (not all that left-wing, though I was happy with Corbyn as leader), and have been a member of Labour since I was 21; I'm currently chair of my constituency CLP. I'm fed up with the negative slant of the current Labour leadership, but don't feel the Greens or the LibDems offer a coherent alternative, let alone a left-wing one, though I'd be open to the possibility of alliance. I'm therefore a possible switcher if the new party offers a coherent, largely positive alternative. If they end up like the SWP, certainly not, but we'll see.

    There are lots of Labour people like me - at least 25% of the membership, I'd say - and we are not exclusively basing our choices on probability to win outright We feel the voters are in sufficient flux to give a serious leftish party a reasonable chance. We might be wrong, but it's a mistake to assume we don't exist.
    I have been left of centre all of my life and only left the Labour party during Corbyn's reign. I think you are going to find that there is a very limited market for a party that appears to prioritise the interest of Palestinians over the interests of British people.

    However much I deplore Netanyahu's actions I know that Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran are the far greater threat to me than Israel will ever be. Much of the concern about the boats and asylum seekers is actually concern/fear about the impact of political islam on the UK and if you wish to dismiss/ridicule that as racist then so be it.

    It saddens me that all over Europe the left cannot see how islamic immigration is fuelling the far right. The day I hear Corbyn unequivocally criticising the mysogeny and homophobia of Hamas and their fellow travellers (or indeed many muslims in the UK) is the day I might listen to what he has to say but I know it will never happen
    Peter Tatchell took the lead on that front.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,575
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Just wait for model Y

    Tesla sales in Europe slump 40% as BYD new car registrations more than triple

    Electric car business run by Elon Musk continues to lose ground to Chinese rival despite recent revamp of Model Y

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/aug/28/tesla-sales-in-europe-slump-byd-new-car-registrations-more-than-triple-elon-musk

    Electric cars eligible for £3,750 discount announced
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgvywyev1do

    The coffers are empty but we are subsidising foreign car-makers. You couldn't make it up.
    Far too timid.

    If you want to facilitate a switch to electric, put the fossil fuel ones UP by £3750.
    More to the point, why are we subsidising competition against U.K. manufacturing?

    On batteries - offer a tax credit (or whatever) of x per watt of zero emission storage actually sold on a vehicle. X scaled to U.K. content.

    So if they want the money, they actually have to do the work in the U.K.
  • MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Just wait for model Y

    Tesla sales in Europe slump 40% as BYD new car registrations more than triple

    Electric car business run by Elon Musk continues to lose ground to Chinese rival despite recent revamp of Model Y

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/aug/28/tesla-sales-in-europe-slump-byd-new-car-registrations-more-than-triple-elon-musk

    Electric cars eligible for £3,750 discount announced
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgvywyev1do

    The coffers are empty but we are subsidising foreign car-makers. You couldn't make it up.
    Far too timid.

    If you want to facilitate a switch to electric, put the fossil fuel ones UP by £3750.
    That would be far more economically sensible way to do it and a lot easier on the public finances, but politically impossible because people are stupid.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,644
    edited August 28
    Pathetic that we are happy to let the Russian bombing of the British Council in Kyiv slide with no physical response. I would say Russian assets inside Ukraine are now fair game for the RAF.

    But Putin knows we'll always whimper after our response to Salisbury.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,146

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
  • novanova Posts: 904

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:
    Ref 34% (+1)
    Lab 18% (nc)
    Con 15% (-2)
    LD 13% (+1)
    Grn 10% (nc)
    SNP 2% (-1)
    And it's the Findoutnow gold standard.

    Was this poll taken before the Reform policy fiasco this week?
    Yesterday by the looks of it.

    I know FON say they're confident the way they poll is reaching Reform voters that others don't, but it's pretty much them against the world now.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,470
    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,136
    Eabhal said:

    Pathetic that we are happy to let the Russian bombing of the British Council in Kyiv slide with no physical response. I would say Russian assets inside Ukraine are now fair game for the RAF.

    But Putin knows we'll always whimper after our response to Salisbury.

    Sink his yacht.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,644
    edited August 28
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Just wait for model Y

    Tesla sales in Europe slump 40% as BYD new car registrations more than triple

    Electric car business run by Elon Musk continues to lose ground to Chinese rival despite recent revamp of Model Y

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/aug/28/tesla-sales-in-europe-slump-byd-new-car-registrations-more-than-triple-elon-musk

    Electric cars eligible for £3,750 discount announced
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgvywyev1do

    The coffers are empty but we are subsidising foreign car-makers. You couldn't make it up.
    Far too timid.

    If you want to facilitate a switch to electric, put the fossil fuel ones UP by £3750.
    Or cut all tax on electricity and increase fuel duty.

    This would actually be progressive overall because poor people are, as a share of energy usage, bigger users of electricity than rich people. And much more progressive than this policy.

    And where's the £3,750 grant for my new bicycle?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,087

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,470
    edited August 28
    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,087

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    Ah, thanks. That sort of mix makes sense for London.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,435

    Bad news for our pro genocide posters, even The Telegraph are churning out pro Hamas content now.

    Seven common tropes used to deny Gaza’s famine, debunked by an expert

    The chorus of denial around serious food insecurity in the Strip is more than falsehood – it is active disinformation


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/terror-and-security/seven-common-tropes-used-to-deny-gazas-famine-debunked/?recomm_id=718d1aa1-2bf3-47d2-be01-378a750cbcfb

    The only point that I'm sceptical about is no.6. I have no doubt that Hamas have stolen food.

    Still, it's clear that the Israeli government is using starvation of civilians as a weapon, in this conflict.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,435

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    I knew a man very well who died of Covid, because of his refusal to be "injected with poisons". He was a law graduate, from Trinity Hall, Cambridge, and I found it hard to fathom such stupidity.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,716
    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    Multi-culti.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,290
    Dopermean said:

    Barnesian said:

    BBC WATO going in very big on the sacking of Starmer's head of policy.

    No criticism yesterday of the Farage catastrophuck U turn, but boots on for a Starmer kicking.

    Does a Farage free pass counterbalanced with a critique of Starmer demonstrate BBC impartiality?

    I made the following complaint to the BBC ...

    With all the important news in the world, the most important news is not a speech by Farage for god's sake!!

    This is so unbalanced that I question the impartiality of the editor.

    Who was the named individual who made this editorial decision?
    Have you knowledge of their political allegiance e.g. their social media posts?

    Will you please fire them, or at least, move them off news?

    ----------
    And got a response

    Thank you for contacting us,

    BBC Complaints Team
    www.bbc.co.uk/complaints"
    That would be Robbie Gibb
    WATO does appear to be particularly subservient to the political bias of senior managers, though R4 news is poor throughout.
    I was amazed to hear an interview the other day on a topic from someone who was clearly an expert in the field, the journalist allowed them to complete their points without interruption and asked questions that were inquiring rather than leading questions designed to enforce their own prejudice.
    Then I realized that I was still tuned to Radio 5 live from the football the night before.
    Robbie Gibb should be removed from the BBC Board.

    "Emily Maitlis has said a BBC board member is an “active agent of the Conservative party” who is shaping the broadcaster’s news output by acting “as the arbiter of BBC impartiality”.

    The former Newsnight presenter highlighted the role of Sir Robbie Gibb, who previously worked as Theresa May’s director of communications and helped to found the rightwing GB News channel."

    Robbie Gibb's term as a BBC Board Member was extended by the UK Tory Government and approved by the Privy Council on March 13, 2024. He was reappointed for a four-year term, from May 7, 2024, to May 6, 2028.
    However his position is a public appointment, and such appointments are subject to government control and can be terminated.

    Lisa Nandy should step up and terminate Gibb's contract.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,716
    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    I knew a man very well who died of Covid, because of his refusal to be "injected with poisons". He was a law graduate, from Trinity Hall, Cambridge, and I found it hard to fathom such stupidity.
    Nick Griffin also went to Cambridge. #justsayin'
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,640
    Barnesian said:

    Dopermean said:

    Barnesian said:

    BBC WATO going in very big on the sacking of Starmer's head of policy.

    No criticism yesterday of the Farage catastrophuck U turn, but boots on for a Starmer kicking.

    Does a Farage free pass counterbalanced with a critique of Starmer demonstrate BBC impartiality?

    I made the following complaint to the BBC ...

    With all the important news in the world, the most important news is not a speech by Farage for god's sake!!

    This is so unbalanced that I question the impartiality of the editor.

    Who was the named individual who made this editorial decision?
    Have you knowledge of their political allegiance e.g. their social media posts?

    Will you please fire them, or at least, move them off news?

    ----------
    And got a response

    Thank you for contacting us,

    BBC Complaints Team
    www.bbc.co.uk/complaints"
    That would be Robbie Gibb
    WATO does appear to be particularly subservient to the political bias of senior managers, though R4 news is poor throughout.
    I was amazed to hear an interview the other day on a topic from someone who was clearly an expert in the field, the journalist allowed them to complete their points without interruption and asked questions that were inquiring rather than leading questions designed to enforce their own prejudice.
    Then I realized that I was still tuned to Radio 5 live from the football the night before.
    Robbie Gibb should be removed from the BBC Board.

    "Emily Maitlis has said a BBC board member is an “active agent of the Conservative party” who is shaping the broadcaster’s news output by acting “as the arbiter of BBC impartiality”.

    The former Newsnight presenter highlighted the role of Sir Robbie Gibb, who previously worked as Theresa May’s director of communications and helped to found the rightwing GB News channel."..
    Shouldn't that be Bee Gees News ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,470
    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    I knew a man very well who died of Covid, because of his refusal to be "injected with poisons". He was a law graduate, from Trinity Hall, Cambridge, and I found it hard to fathom such stupidity.
    I had a friend, fairly intelligent, had a wonderful wife and three kids, was convinced Covid was a hoax and the vaccine was going to control/kill us all.

    Got into a row with his friends and family, some of whom had friends/family who died from Covid.

    Told his wife he would divorce her and would never see his kids if they got vaccinated.

    Well he’s divorced now, hasn’t seen his kids in four years, I’d like to blame social media, but it wasn’t that, he was just convinced by his own arguments.

    He went from earning a six figure salary, to being unemployed and living in a small one bedroom flat.

    From what I hear he was sacked from his job for being abusive to the vaccinated.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,545

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    Marketing some organic version of MMR as "alternative medicine" should help with the second group.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,825

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:
    Ref 34% (+1)
    Lab 18% (nc)
    Con 15% (-2)
    LD 13% (+1)
    Grn 10% (nc)
    SNP 2% (-1)
    And it's the Findoutnow gold standard.

    Was this poll taken before the Reform policy fiasco this week?
    Do you really think the news this week will damage Reform? I can’t see it myself
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,748
    Barnesian said:

    Dopermean said:

    Barnesian said:

    BBC WATO going in very big on the sacking of Starmer's head of policy.

    No criticism yesterday of the Farage catastrophuck U turn, but boots on for a Starmer kicking.

    Does a Farage free pass counterbalanced with a critique of Starmer demonstrate BBC impartiality?

    I made the following complaint to the BBC ...

    With all the important news in the world, the most important news is not a speech by Farage for god's sake!!

    This is so unbalanced that I question the impartiality of the editor.

    Who was the named individual who made this editorial decision?
    Have you knowledge of their political allegiance e.g. their social media posts?

    Will you please fire them, or at least, move them off news?

    ----------
    And got a response

    Thank you for contacting us,

    BBC Complaints Team
    www.bbc.co.uk/complaints"
    That would be Robbie Gibb
    WATO does appear to be particularly subservient to the political bias of senior managers, though R4 news is poor throughout.
    I was amazed to hear an interview the other day on a topic from someone who was clearly an expert in the field, the journalist allowed them to complete their points without interruption and asked questions that were inquiring rather than leading questions designed to enforce their own prejudice.
    Then I realized that I was still tuned to Radio 5 live from the football the night before.
    Robbie Gibb should be removed from the BBC Board.

    "Emily Maitlis has said a BBC board member is an “active agent of the Conservative party” who is shaping the broadcaster’s news output by acting “as the arbiter of BBC impartiality”.

    The former Newsnight presenter highlighted the role of Sir Robbie Gibb, who previously worked as Theresa May’s director of communications and helped to found the rightwing GB News channel."

    Robbie Gibb's term as a BBC Board Member was extended by the UK Tory Government and approved by the Privy Council on March 13, 2024. He was reappointed for a four-year term, from May 7, 2024, to May 6, 2028.
    However his position is a public appointment, and such appointments are subject to government control and can be terminated.

    Lisa Nandy should step up and terminate Gibb's contract.
    If he really was an “active agent of the Conservative party” he wouldn't be pushing the Fartage agenda quite so hard
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,470
    kamski said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    Marketing some organic version of MMR as "alternative medicine" should help with the second group.
    I wish it were that simple.

    The appointment of RFK Jr is quite possibly the worst thing Donald Trump has ever done because I think we’ll be dealing with the legacy of that disaster for decades to come.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,290
    Scott_xP said:

    Barnesian said:

    Dopermean said:

    Barnesian said:

    BBC WATO going in very big on the sacking of Starmer's head of policy.

    No criticism yesterday of the Farage catastrophuck U turn, but boots on for a Starmer kicking.

    Does a Farage free pass counterbalanced with a critique of Starmer demonstrate BBC impartiality?

    I made the following complaint to the BBC ...

    With all the important news in the world, the most important news is not a speech by Farage for god's sake!!

    This is so unbalanced that I question the impartiality of the editor.

    Who was the named individual who made this editorial decision?
    Have you knowledge of their political allegiance e.g. their social media posts?

    Will you please fire them, or at least, move them off news?

    ----------
    And got a response

    Thank you for contacting us,

    BBC Complaints Team
    www.bbc.co.uk/complaints"
    That would be Robbie Gibb
    WATO does appear to be particularly subservient to the political bias of senior managers, though R4 news is poor throughout.
    I was amazed to hear an interview the other day on a topic from someone who was clearly an expert in the field, the journalist allowed them to complete their points without interruption and asked questions that were inquiring rather than leading questions designed to enforce their own prejudice.
    Then I realized that I was still tuned to Radio 5 live from the football the night before.
    Robbie Gibb should be removed from the BBC Board.

    "Emily Maitlis has said a BBC board member is an “active agent of the Conservative party” who is shaping the broadcaster’s news output by acting “as the arbiter of BBC impartiality”.

    The former Newsnight presenter highlighted the role of Sir Robbie Gibb, who previously worked as Theresa May’s director of communications and helped to found the rightwing GB News channel."

    Robbie Gibb's term as a BBC Board Member was extended by the UK Tory Government and approved by the Privy Council on March 13, 2024. He was reappointed for a four-year term, from May 7, 2024, to May 6, 2028.
    However his position is a public appointment, and such appointments are subject to government control and can be terminated.

    Lisa Nandy should step up and terminate Gibb's contract.
    If he really was an “active agent of the Conservative party” he wouldn't be pushing the Fartage agenda quite so hard
    She made the claim in 2022. A lot of Tories have switched to Reform since then.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,697
    Barnesian said:

    Dopermean said:

    Barnesian said:

    BBC WATO going in very big on the sacking of Starmer's head of policy.

    No criticism yesterday of the Farage catastrophuck U turn, but boots on for a Starmer kicking.

    Does a Farage free pass counterbalanced with a critique of Starmer demonstrate BBC impartiality?

    I made the following complaint to the BBC ...

    With all the important news in the world, the most important news is not a speech by Farage for god's sake!!

    This is so unbalanced that I question the impartiality of the editor.

    Who was the named individual who made this editorial decision?
    Have you knowledge of their political allegiance e.g. their social media posts?

    Will you please fire them, or at least, move them off news?

    ----------
    And got a response

    Thank you for contacting us,

    BBC Complaints Team
    www.bbc.co.uk/complaints"
    That would be Robbie Gibb
    WATO does appear to be particularly subservient to the political bias of senior managers, though R4 news is poor throughout.
    I was amazed to hear an interview the other day on a topic from someone who was clearly an expert in the field, the journalist allowed them to complete their points without interruption and asked questions that were inquiring rather than leading questions designed to enforce their own prejudice.
    Then I realized that I was still tuned to Radio 5 live from the football the night before.
    Robbie Gibb should be removed from the BBC Board.

    "Emily Maitlis has said a BBC board member is an “active agent of the Conservative party” who is shaping the broadcaster’s news output by acting “as the arbiter of BBC impartiality”.

    The former Newsnight presenter highlighted the role of Sir Robbie Gibb, who previously worked as Theresa May’s director of communications and helped to found the rightwing GB News channel."

    Robbie Gibb's term as a BBC Board Member was extended by the UK Tory Government and approved by the Privy Council on March 13, 2024. He was reappointed for a four-year term, from May 7, 2024, to May 6, 2028.
    However his position is a public appointment, and such appointments are subject to government control and can be terminated.

    Lisa Nandy should step up and terminate Gibb's contract.
    That well known voice of impartiality, Emily Maitlis 🙄

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,925
    Fieldwork for polling should generally be conducted over at least 2 days . This is to mediate against bias in sampling and avoid having to do too much up or down weighting in demographic groups . Find Out Now only poll for one day a week .
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,575
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    Ah, thanks. That sort of mix makes sense for London.
    I’ve overheard some selling “Big Pharma is hiding natural cures”. The kind of people who bang on about “Late Stage Capitalism”
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,467
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Just wait for model Y

    Tesla sales in Europe slump 40% as BYD new car registrations more than triple

    Electric car business run by Elon Musk continues to lose ground to Chinese rival despite recent revamp of Model Y

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/aug/28/tesla-sales-in-europe-slump-byd-new-car-registrations-more-than-triple-elon-musk

    Electric cars eligible for £3,750 discount announced
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgvywyev1do

    The coffers are empty but we are subsidising foreign car-makers. You couldn't make it up.
    Far too timid.

    If you want to facilitate a switch to electric, put the fossil fuel ones UP by £3750.
    We might be sort-of doing that anyway, as small cars are axed from the bottom of ranges.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,697

    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    I knew a man very well who died of Covid, because of his refusal to be "injected with poisons". He was a law graduate, from Trinity Hall, Cambridge, and I found it hard to fathom such stupidity.
    I had a friend, fairly intelligent, had a wonderful wife and three kids, was convinced Covid was a hoax and the vaccine was going to control/kill us all.

    Got into a row with his friends and family, some of whom had friends/family who died from Covid.

    Told his wife he would divorce her and would never see his kids if they got vaccinated.

    Well he’s divorced now, hasn’t seen his kids in four years, I’d like to blame social media, but it wasn’t that, he was just convinced by his own arguments.

    He went from earning a six figure salary, to being unemployed and living in a small one bedroom flat.

    From what I hear he was sacked from his job for being abusive to the vaccinated.
    My ex brother in law went down a similar path although he always was a loser.

    His Facebook feed very quickly became full lf anti vax conspiracy theories and he’d argue with people out and about wearing masks.

    I’d worked in a few projects supporting vax research so I was part of the conspiracy. I just found it easier to not speak to him.

    He now lives in a static caravan on a field somewhere outside of Malvern.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,546
    Barnesian said:

    Dopermean said:

    Barnesian said:

    BBC WATO going in very big on the sacking of Starmer's head of policy.

    No criticism yesterday of the Farage catastrophuck U turn, but boots on for a Starmer kicking.

    Does a Farage free pass counterbalanced with a critique of Starmer demonstrate BBC impartiality?

    I made the following complaint to the BBC ...

    With all the important news in the world, the most important news is not a speech by Farage for god's sake!!

    This is so unbalanced that I question the impartiality of the editor.

    Who was the named individual who made this editorial decision?
    Have you knowledge of their political allegiance e.g. their social media posts?

    Will you please fire them, or at least, move them off news?

    ----------
    And got a response

    Thank you for contacting us,

    BBC Complaints Team
    www.bbc.co.uk/complaints"
    That would be Robbie Gibb
    WATO does appear to be particularly subservient to the political bias of senior managers, though R4 news is poor throughout.
    I was amazed to hear an interview the other day on a topic from someone who was clearly an expert in the field, the journalist allowed them to complete their points without interruption and asked questions that were inquiring rather than leading questions designed to enforce their own prejudice.
    Then I realized that I was still tuned to Radio 5 live from the football the night before.
    Robbie Gibb should be removed from the BBC Board.

    "Emily Maitlis has said a BBC board member is an “active agent of the Conservative party” who is shaping the broadcaster’s news output by acting “as the arbiter of BBC impartiality”.

    The former Newsnight presenter highlighted the role of Sir Robbie Gibb, who previously worked as Theresa May’s director of communications and helped to found the rightwing GB News channel."

    Robbie Gibb's term as a BBC Board Member was extended by the UK Tory Government and approved by the Privy Council on March 13, 2024. He was reappointed for a four-year term, from May 7, 2024, to May 6, 2028.
    However his position is a public appointment, and such appointments are subject to government control and can be terminated.

    Lisa Nandy should step up and terminate Gibb's contract.
    I don't watch much BBC, but certainly Sky are headlining Farage or Trump continuously as are most of the rest of the media

    They are leading the news agenda, but maybe if we had a government that had not let down people's hopes and expectations since elected in July 24 we would not be quite in this position

    It is the failure of both the previous conservative government and this Starmer led government that is at the root cause of NOA or Reform

    The problem is I just do not see this changing, not least because in another few weeks Reeves is likely to lob another hand grenade into our already sick economy
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,697

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Just wait for model Y

    Tesla sales in Europe slump 40% as BYD new car registrations more than triple

    Electric car business run by Elon Musk continues to lose ground to Chinese rival despite recent revamp of Model Y

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/aug/28/tesla-sales-in-europe-slump-byd-new-car-registrations-more-than-triple-elon-musk

    Electric cars eligible for £3,750 discount announced
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgvywyev1do

    The coffers are empty but we are subsidising foreign car-makers. You couldn't make it up.
    Far too timid.

    If you want to facilitate a switch to electric, put the fossil fuel ones UP by £3750.
    We might be sort-of doing that anyway, as small cars are axed from the bottom of ranges.
    The market is moving that way however should any govt implement this the big winners would be the Chinese and the losers the domestic auto makers.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,453

    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    I knew a man very well who died of Covid, because of his refusal to be "injected with poisons". He was a law graduate, from Trinity Hall, Cambridge, and I found it hard to fathom such stupidity.
    I had a friend, fairly intelligent, had a wonderful wife and three kids, was convinced Covid was a hoax and the vaccine was going to control/kill us all.

    Got into a row with his friends and family, some of whom had friends/family who died from Covid.

    Told his wife he would divorce her and would never see his kids if they got vaccinated.

    Well he’s divorced now, hasn’t seen his kids in four years, I’d like to blame social media, but it wasn’t that, he was just convinced by his own arguments.

    He went from earning a six figure salary, to being unemployed and living in a small one bedroom flat.

    From what I hear he was sacked from his job for being abusive to the vaccinated.
    I thought you said he was fairly intelligent.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,647

    Taz said:
    It might be little change, it's a weekly poll so that's what you would expect, but it's the biggest Reform lead and joint-lowest Tory score
    Exactly. Little change??

    That’s a SIXTEEN POINT Reform lead and Labour on 18%
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,546
    nico67 said:

    Fieldwork for polling should generally be conducted over at least 2 days . This is to mediate against bias in sampling and avoid having to do too much up or down weighting in demographic groups . Find Out Now only poll for one day a week .

    The polls seem to me to be fairly static with Reform ahead and the rest struggling to keep up
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,402
    nova said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:
    Ref 34% (+1)
    Lab 18% (nc)
    Con 15% (-2)
    LD 13% (+1)
    Grn 10% (nc)
    SNP 2% (-1)
    And it's the Findoutnow gold standard.

    Was this poll taken before the Reform policy fiasco this week?
    Yesterday by the looks of it.

    I know FON say they're confident the way they poll is reaching Reform voters that others don't, but it's pretty much them against the world now.
    Next year's elections will go along way to seeing if their polls are accurate.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,470

    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    I knew a man very well who died of Covid, because of his refusal to be "injected with poisons". He was a law graduate, from Trinity Hall, Cambridge, and I found it hard to fathom such stupidity.
    I had a friend, fairly intelligent, had a wonderful wife and three kids, was convinced Covid was a hoax and the vaccine was going to control/kill us all.

    Got into a row with his friends and family, some of whom had friends/family who died from Covid.

    Told his wife he would divorce her and would never see his kids if they got vaccinated.

    Well he’s divorced now, hasn’t seen his kids in four years, I’d like to blame social media, but it wasn’t that, he was just convinced by his own arguments.

    He went from earning a six figure salary, to being unemployed and living in a small one bedroom flat.

    From what I hear he was sacked from his job for being abusive to the vaccinated.
    I thought you said he was fairly intelligent.
    He was up to that point, something in him changed during 2020/21.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,925

    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    I knew a man very well who died of Covid, because of his refusal to be "injected with poisons". He was a law graduate, from Trinity Hall, Cambridge, and I found it hard to fathom such stupidity.
    I had a friend, fairly intelligent, had a wonderful wife and three kids, was convinced Covid was a hoax and the vaccine was going to control/kill us all.

    Got into a row with his friends and family, some of whom had friends/family who died from Covid.

    Told his wife he would divorce her and would never see his kids if they got vaccinated.

    Well he’s divorced now, hasn’t seen his kids in four years, I’d like to blame social media, but it wasn’t that, he was just convinced by his own arguments.

    He went from earning a six figure salary, to being unemployed and living in a small one bedroom flat.

    From what I hear he was sacked from his job for being abusive to the vaccinated.
    He sounds totally unhinged . It seems as if though his views about the vaccine were a proxy for other things going on . To threaten to divorce your wife and not see your kids again if they got vaccinated seems very controlling .
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,575
    edited August 28

    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    I knew a man very well who died of Covid, because of his refusal to be "injected with poisons". He was a law graduate, from Trinity Hall, Cambridge, and I found it hard to fathom such stupidity.
    I had a friend, fairly intelligent, had a wonderful wife and three kids, was convinced Covid was a hoax and the vaccine was going to control/kill us all.

    Got into a row with his friends and family, some of whom had friends/family who died from Covid.

    Told his wife he would divorce her and would never see his kids if they got vaccinated.

    Well he’s divorced now, hasn’t seen his kids in four years, I’d like to blame social media, but it wasn’t that, he was just convinced by his own arguments.

    He went from earning a six figure salary, to being unemployed and living in a small one bedroom flat.

    From what I hear he was sacked from his job for being abusive to the vaccinated.
    I thought you said he was fairly intelligent.
    Intelligence and self radicalising into weird conspiracy theories can go together.

    Knew a chap who had a PhD in Art History. Urbane, polite. Went full MAGA + QANON
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,925

    nico67 said:

    Fieldwork for polling should generally be conducted over at least 2 days . This is to mediate against bias in sampling and avoid having to do too much up or down weighting in demographic groups . Find Out Now only poll for one day a week .

    The polls seem to me to be fairly static with Reform ahead and the rest struggling to keep up
    I’m not disputing Reform have a healthy lead but they seem to be an outlier in terms of the size of that and I have misgivings over any poll which is conducted over just one day .
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,575
    nico67 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    I knew a man very well who died of Covid, because of his refusal to be "injected with poisons". He was a law graduate, from Trinity Hall, Cambridge, and I found it hard to fathom such stupidity.
    I had a friend, fairly intelligent, had a wonderful wife and three kids, was convinced Covid was a hoax and the vaccine was going to control/kill us all.

    Got into a row with his friends and family, some of whom had friends/family who died from Covid.

    Told his wife he would divorce her and would never see his kids if they got vaccinated.

    Well he’s divorced now, hasn’t seen his kids in four years, I’d like to blame social media, but it wasn’t that, he was just convinced by his own arguments.

    He went from earning a six figure salary, to being unemployed and living in a small one bedroom flat.

    From what I hear he was sacked from his job for being abusive to the vaccinated.
    He sounds totally unhinged . It seems as if though his views about the vaccine were a proxy for other things going on . To threaten to divorce your wife and not see your kids again if they got vaccinated seems very controlling .
    The leader of a U.K. political party got divorced because his wife wanted to send the children to the wrong kind of school…
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,710
    PJH said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    I doubt it; that question is horribly leading and yet another tear in Yougov's increasingly tattered reputation.

    Reform could (and perhaps will) respond with polling showing a big majority in favour of their policy due to an equally leading question, and therefore polls become weapons of propaganda rather than useful indicators of public sentiment.

    ...which is pretty much what happened in the USA.

    RefUK really are using the tactics of their MAGA mates to the maximum possible, but it remains to be seen how for this works in a Parliamentary rather than a Presidential system. I think the best RefUK can do is gain enough seats to get a deadlock in the House of Commons, but actually taking power, especially with growing investigation of their policies and personnel seems like a very big ask indeed.
    With Lab and Con both on around 18-20%, LD on 14-17% and a Jez n'mates party on 15%, the FPTP system pretty much guarantees a majority for Reform on even a low 30s result.
    If the last 48 hours is anything to go by good luck with that low thirties. The Sultanas could be out in front by then.
    A split left, with Sultana tendencies leading, will I suspect drive centrist voters towards the expected bulwark against them.

    Tories and LDs for Reform; you heard it here first.
    LDs and One Nation Tories would never vote Reform and the Sultana Corbyn party looks like getting less than ten percent anyway
    If there were only Tory and Reform candidates in my patch, I might consider it
    :o
    We already know the Tories are incompetent and self-serving. And voting for them is just a vote for returning to the two-party status quo, whereas at least Reform, whilst likely just as incompetent and self-serving as the Tories, at least offers the prospect of 'breaking' the system.
    Let's hope that there are no seats where the only choice is Tory or Reform. What a choice!
    My own seat of Brentwood and Ongar had the Tories first and Reform second at the GE, overall there are likely to be 100 such seats at least given the higher Reform voteshare now and where the MP is still Tory
    Yes and there will be a lot of voters there who wouldn't even think of voting Tory there, to keep Reform out. I certainly wouldn't.
    I might, I could stomach voting for Alex Burghart but I would need an absolutely cast iron guarantee from the leader of the Conservative party during the election campaign that they will support a minority Labour government if doing so is necessary to keep Reform out.
    Hell will freeze over, and Leon will make a sensible prediction, both before that ever happens!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,647
    Can’t believe I’m reading this headline

    “Rights of asylum seekers trump the people of Epping, Home Office argues”

    It’s probably the worst headline I’ve ever read for any British government in my life
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,647
    I can see Labour going under 15% with that one headline
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,546
    nico67 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    I knew a man very well who died of Covid, because of his refusal to be "injected with poisons". He was a law graduate, from Trinity Hall, Cambridge, and I found it hard to fathom such stupidity.
    I had a friend, fairly intelligent, had a wonderful wife and three kids, was convinced Covid was a hoax and the vaccine was going to control/kill us all.

    Got into a row with his friends and family, some of whom had friends/family who died from Covid.

    Told his wife he would divorce her and would never see his kids if they got vaccinated.

    Well he’s divorced now, hasn’t seen his kids in four years, I’d like to blame social media, but it wasn’t that, he was just convinced by his own arguments.

    He went from earning a six figure salary, to being unemployed and living in a small one bedroom flat.

    From what I hear he was sacked from his job for being abusive to the vaccinated.
    He sounds totally unhinged . It seems as if though his views about the vaccine were a proxy for other things going on . To threaten to divorce your wife and not see your kids again if they got vaccinated seems very controlling .
    To me it defies belief
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,837

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    Ah, thanks. That sort of mix makes sense for London.
    I’ve overheard some selling “Big Pharma is hiding natural cures”. The kind of people who bang on about “Late Stage Capitalism”
    Big Pharma isn't shy about finding ways to patent and monetise natural cures.

    I sometimes bang on about late stage capitalism, although I can't work out if that's when I'm being unduly cynical or unduly optimistic.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,925

    nico67 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    I knew a man very well who died of Covid, because of his refusal to be "injected with poisons". He was a law graduate, from Trinity Hall, Cambridge, and I found it hard to fathom such stupidity.
    I had a friend, fairly intelligent, had a wonderful wife and three kids, was convinced Covid was a hoax and the vaccine was going to control/kill us all.

    Got into a row with his friends and family, some of whom had friends/family who died from Covid.

    Told his wife he would divorce her and would never see his kids if they got vaccinated.

    Well he’s divorced now, hasn’t seen his kids in four years, I’d like to blame social media, but it wasn’t that, he was just convinced by his own arguments.

    He went from earning a six figure salary, to being unemployed and living in a small one bedroom flat.

    From what I hear he was sacked from his job for being abusive to the vaccinated.
    He sounds totally unhinged . It seems as if though his views about the vaccine were a proxy for other things going on . To threaten to divorce your wife and not see your kids again if they got vaccinated seems very controlling .
    The leader of a U.K. political party got divorced because his wife wanted to send the children to the wrong kind of school…
    Yes but you’ll often find a so called one excuse for such drastic action is indeed not the case and it’s a culmination of things where that might be the final push .
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,837

    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    I knew a man very well who died of Covid, because of his refusal to be "injected with poisons". He was a law graduate, from Trinity Hall, Cambridge, and I found it hard to fathom such stupidity.
    I had a friend, fairly intelligent, had a wonderful wife and three kids, was convinced Covid was a hoax and the vaccine was going to control/kill us all.

    Got into a row with his friends and family, some of whom had friends/family who died from Covid.

    Told his wife he would divorce her and would never see his kids if they got vaccinated.

    Well he’s divorced now, hasn’t seen his kids in four years, I’d like to blame social media, but it wasn’t that, he was just convinced by his own arguments.

    He went from earning a six figure salary, to being unemployed and living in a small one bedroom flat.

    From what I hear he was sacked from his job for being abusive to the vaccinated.
    I thought you said he was fairly intelligent.
    He was up to that point, something in him changed during 2020/21.
    Lots of evidence for Covid affecting brain function.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,523
    edited August 28

    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    I knew a man very well who died of Covid, because of his refusal to be "injected with poisons". He was a law graduate, from Trinity Hall, Cambridge, and I found it hard to fathom such stupidity.
    I had a friend, fairly intelligent, had a wonderful wife and three kids, was convinced Covid was a hoax and the vaccine was going to control/kill us all.

    Got into a row with his friends and family, some of whom had friends/family who died from Covid.

    Told his wife he would divorce her and would never see his kids if they got vaccinated.

    Well he’s divorced now, hasn’t seen his kids in four years, I’d like to blame social media, but it wasn’t that, he was just convinced by his own arguments.

    He went from earning a six figure salary, to being unemployed and living in a small one bedroom flat.

    From what I hear he was sacked from his job for being abusive to the vaccinated.
    I thought you said he was fairly intelligent.
    Intelligence and self radicalising into weird conspiracy theories can go together.

    Knew a chap who had a PhD in Art History. Urbane, polite. Went full MAGA + QANON
    I have a friend who did a Masters in Egyptology. But she couldn't find work. So now she's studying for a PhD to teach others.
    I'm beginning to suspect the entire subject is an elaborate pyramid scheme.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,762
    OllyT said:

    Forgive me if this has been raised before, but I am baffled by the time spent considering the Sultanas/Jezbollah as a credible political force. Where is their support going to come from? OK, I agree, the appalling situation in Gaza gives them a cause around which they can rally, but when a General Election comes, surely they are going to end up in the same category as the SWP, Communists, TUSC, IRP and all the other ideologically based left wing parties. Yes, they think Labour is doing a bad job (and so do I) but the average Labour voter isn't going to give much consideration to Corbyn - he's yesterday's man, and widely seen as a man who tried but failed. (Clegg and Johnson also come into that category.)

    No, if left-wing ideological voters want to punish the Labour Party then they will vote Green (or Nationalist, if one is available.) They might, at a stretch, think that the Lib Dems are pointless, but at least they are seen to be "sound" on Gaza, Trump, etc and a vote for them might get rid of another Tory. But this new Leftist concept has arrived too late in a crowded political marketplace, and their weaknesses (leadership, nomenclature, half-cocked launch etc) are already plain to see, long before the PR hatchet-men in ther Labour Party get to work on them.

    So, ignore them - they are not relevant now, and will not be at the next General Election.

    The nascent political grouping without a final name yet that is built around the Independent Alliance grouping have 6 MPs already. That makes them the fifth largest party in the Commons and 50% bigger than the Green Party. If the Green Party elect Polanski as their leader, as seems likely, you might have two parties looking rather similar, so which populist left firebrand do you want? Polanski or the original, Corbyn? Or maybe it's Polanski vs Sultana? Polanski wants an alliance, although Corbyn is sceptical of that. But my point is that I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Your Party. They might come out ahead of a tussle with the Greens, or part of a formal alliance with the Greens. Or they might sink without a trace.
    I'm a former MP for 13 years (not all that left-wing, though I was happy with Corbyn as leader), and have been a member of Labour since I was 21; I'm currently chair of my constituency CLP. I'm fed up with the negative slant of the current Labour leadership, but don't feel the Greens or the LibDems offer a coherent alternative, let alone a left-wing one, though I'd be open to the possibility of alliance. I'm therefore a possible switcher if the new party offers a coherent, largely positive alternative. If they end up like the SWP, certainly not, but we'll see.

    There are lots of Labour people like me - at least 25% of the membership, I'd say - and we are not exclusively basing our choices on probability to win outright We feel the voters are in sufficient flux to give a serious leftish party a reasonable chance. We might be wrong, but it's a mistake to assume we don't exist.
    I have been left of centre all of my life and only left the Labour party during Corbyn's reign. I think you are going to find that there is a very limited market for a party that appears to prioritise the interest of Palestinians over the interests of British people.

    However much I deplore Netanyahu's actions I know that Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran are the far greater threat to me than Israel will ever be. Much of the concern about the boats and asylum seekers is actually concern/fear about the impact of political islam on the UK and if you wish to dismiss/ridicule that as racist then so be it.

    It saddens me that all over Europe the left cannot see how islamic immigration is fuelling the far right. The day I hear Corbyn unequivocally criticising the mysogeny and homophobia of Hamas and their fellow travellers (or indeed many muslims in the UK) is the day I might listen to what he has to say but I know it will never happen
    See https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/18/jeremy-corbyn-calls-hamas-terrorist-group-after-previous-demurral for a general condemnation of Hamas. I don't think that accusing Corbyn of misogyny or homophobia would stand up for a moment. But I'm not primarily concerned with Middle East policy or politicians' views on the issues there, though I personally favour a tighter interpretation of the ECHR so that we can concentrate on people under direct threat. What I'd like to see is a more positive agenda for people in difficulty in Britain and abroad. Winning the subsequent election is the next step, but without that it's difficult to see the point - I'm not interested in a purely negative agenda ('vote for us because we're not as terrible as them').
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,837
    Leon said:

    Taz said:
    It might be little change, it's a weekly poll so that's what you would expect, but it's the biggest Reform lead and joint-lowest Tory score
    Exactly. Little change??

    That’s a SIXTEEN POINT Reform lead and Labour on 18%
    RFM > LAB + CON
    It's also a fairly striking polling result.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,697
    Leon said:

    Can’t believe I’m reading this headline

    “Rights of asylum seekers trump the people of Epping, Home Office argues”

    It’s probably the worst headline I’ve ever read for any British government in my life

    I saw it on Twitter but didn’t post it here as I assumed it was a fake from people causing trouble. All I saw was a cropped image. Is it genuinely legit ?

    Poor old Rylan is getting a lot of hatred too.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,710
    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    Pathetic that we are happy to let the Russian bombing of the British Council in Kyiv slide with no physical response. I would say Russian assets inside Ukraine are now fair game for the RAF.

    But Putin knows we'll always whimper after our response to Salisbury.

    Sink his yacht.
    Last time I was in Trieste, there was a very swanky designer Russian super yacht, which the Italians had confiscated, moored not far out from the Lungomare. But even back then, the Italians were starting to moan about the cost of having to look after it.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,290
    Leon said:

    Can’t believe I’m reading this headline

    “Rights of asylum seekers trump the people of Epping, Home Office argues”

    It’s probably the worst headline I’ve ever read for any British government in my life

    It's the Daily Mail. I'm sure there have been worse.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,351
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Just wait for model Y

    Tesla sales in Europe slump 40% as BYD new car registrations more than triple

    Electric car business run by Elon Musk continues to lose ground to Chinese rival despite recent revamp of Model Y

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/aug/28/tesla-sales-in-europe-slump-byd-new-car-registrations-more-than-triple-elon-musk

    Electric cars eligible for £3,750 discount announced
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgvywyev1do

    The coffers are empty but we are subsidising foreign car-makers. You couldn't make it up.
    And subsiding people wealthy enough to buy a new car.
    Crazy. We’re supposed to have a 50 billion GBP black hole.
    Plus the car manufacturers are going to pocket some of that subsidy. Ridiculous.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,697
    IanB2 said:

    PJH said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    I doubt it; that question is horribly leading and yet another tear in Yougov's increasingly tattered reputation.

    Reform could (and perhaps will) respond with polling showing a big majority in favour of their policy due to an equally leading question, and therefore polls become weapons of propaganda rather than useful indicators of public sentiment.

    ...which is pretty much what happened in the USA.

    RefUK really are using the tactics of their MAGA mates to the maximum possible, but it remains to be seen how for this works in a Parliamentary rather than a Presidential system. I think the best RefUK can do is gain enough seats to get a deadlock in the House of Commons, but actually taking power, especially with growing investigation of their policies and personnel seems like a very big ask indeed.
    With Lab and Con both on around 18-20%, LD on 14-17% and a Jez n'mates party on 15%, the FPTP system pretty much guarantees a majority for Reform on even a low 30s result.
    If the last 48 hours is anything to go by good luck with that low thirties. The Sultanas could be out in front by then.
    A split left, with Sultana tendencies leading, will I suspect drive centrist voters towards the expected bulwark against them.

    Tories and LDs for Reform; you heard it here first.
    LDs and One Nation Tories would never vote Reform and the Sultana Corbyn party looks like getting less than ten percent anyway
    If there were only Tory and Reform candidates in my patch, I might consider it
    :o
    We already know the Tories are incompetent and self-serving. And voting for them is just a vote for returning to the two-party status quo, whereas at least Reform, whilst likely just as incompetent and self-serving as the Tories, at least offers the prospect of 'breaking' the system.
    Let's hope that there are no seats where the only choice is Tory or Reform. What a choice!
    My own seat of Brentwood and Ongar had the Tories first and Reform second at the GE, overall there are likely to be 100 such seats at least given the higher Reform voteshare now and where the MP is still Tory
    Yes and there will be a lot of voters there who wouldn't even think of voting Tory there, to keep Reform out. I certainly wouldn't.
    I might, I could stomach voting for Alex Burghart but I would need an absolutely cast iron guarantee from the leader of the Conservative party during the election campaign that they will support a minority Labour government if doing so is necessary to keep Reform out.
    Hell will freeze over, and Leon will make a sensible prediction, both before that ever happens!
    You and Leon are like a bickering old married couple 😉

    I think if one of you ever left PB it would leave a massive void in the others online life.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,647
    Barnesian said:

    Leon said:

    Can’t believe I’m reading this headline

    “Rights of asylum seekers trump the people of Epping, Home Office argues”

    It’s probably the worst headline I’ve ever read for any British government in my life

    It's the Daily Mail. I'm sure there have been worse.
    Telegraph. And, actually, I cannot think of worse
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,291

    nico67 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    I knew a man very well who died of Covid, because of his refusal to be "injected with poisons". He was a law graduate, from Trinity Hall, Cambridge, and I found it hard to fathom such stupidity.
    I had a friend, fairly intelligent, had a wonderful wife and three kids, was convinced Covid was a hoax and the vaccine was going to control/kill us all.

    Got into a row with his friends and family, some of whom had friends/family who died from Covid.

    Told his wife he would divorce her and would never see his kids if they got vaccinated.

    Well he’s divorced now, hasn’t seen his kids in four years, I’d like to blame social media, but it wasn’t that, he was just convinced by his own arguments.

    He went from earning a six figure salary, to being unemployed and living in a small one bedroom flat.

    From what I hear he was sacked from his job for being abusive to the vaccinated.
    He sounds totally unhinged . It seems as if though his views about the vaccine were a proxy for other things going on . To threaten to divorce your wife and not see your kids again if they got vaccinated seems very controlling .
    The leader of a U.K. political party got divorced because his wife wanted to send the children to the wrong kind of school…
    Well at least that party leader knew how many children he has.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,546
    Stocky said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Just wait for model Y

    Tesla sales in Europe slump 40% as BYD new car registrations more than triple

    Electric car business run by Elon Musk continues to lose ground to Chinese rival despite recent revamp of Model Y

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/aug/28/tesla-sales-in-europe-slump-byd-new-car-registrations-more-than-triple-elon-musk

    Electric cars eligible for £3,750 discount announced
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgvywyev1do

    The coffers are empty but we are subsidising foreign car-makers. You couldn't make it up.
    And subsiding people wealthy enough to buy a new car.
    Crazy. We’re supposed to have a 50 billion GBP black hole.
    Plus the car manufacturers are going to pocket some of that subsidy. Ridiculous.
    I have been saying that all along

    I doubt most families can find £10,000 to buy a car and yet we are continuing to subsidise expensive cars
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,470

    NEW THREAD

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,290
    edited August 28


    ...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,136
    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    I knew a man very well who died of Covid, because of his refusal to be "injected with poisons". He was a law graduate, from Trinity Hall, Cambridge, and I found it hard to fathom such stupidity.
    I had a friend, fairly intelligent, had a wonderful wife and three kids, was convinced Covid was a hoax and the vaccine was going to control/kill us all.

    Got into a row with his friends and family, some of whom had friends/family who died from Covid.

    Told his wife he would divorce her and would never see his kids if they got vaccinated.

    Well he’s divorced now, hasn’t seen his kids in four years, I’d like to blame social media, but it wasn’t that, he was just convinced by his own arguments.

    He went from earning a six figure salary, to being unemployed and living in a small one bedroom flat.

    From what I hear he was sacked from his job for being abusive to the vaccinated.
    I thought you said he was fairly intelligent.
    Intelligence and self radicalising into weird conspiracy theories can go together.

    Knew a chap who had a PhD in Art History. Urbane, polite. Went full MAGA + QANON
    I have a friend who did a Masters in Egyptology. But she couldn't find work. So now she's studying for a PhD to teach others.
    I'm beginning to suspect the entire subject is an elaborate pyramid scheme.
    The lack of jobs in Egyptology is a scandal. It's just not pharaoh.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,647
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Can’t believe I’m reading this headline

    “Rights of asylum seekers trump the people of Epping, Home Office argues”

    It’s probably the worst headline I’ve ever read for any British government in my life

    I saw it on Twitter but didn’t post it here as I assumed it was a fake from people causing trouble. All I saw was a cropped image. Is it genuinely legit ?

    Poor old Rylan is getting a lot of hatred too.
    It’s real. It’s on the Telegraph website right now. Main headline. And it seems a reasonable summation of the government’s position

    Asylum seekers come first

    Do they begin to understand the anger they are breeding?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,751
    edited August 28
    ...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,546
    edited August 28
    Barnesian said:

    Leon said:

    Can’t believe I’m reading this headline

    “Rights of asylum seekers trump the people of Epping, Home Office argues”

    It’s probably the worst headline I’ve ever read for any British government in my life

    It's the Daily Mail. I'm sure there have been worse.
    I am not sure if the Home Office win their case how it will be reported and the reaction from one Nigel Farage !!!!

    Sky reporting ruling due tomorrow at 2.00pm
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,925
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Can’t believe I’m reading this headline

    “Rights of asylum seekers trump the people of Epping, Home Office argues”

    It’s probably the worst headline I’ve ever read for any British government in my life

    I saw it on Twitter but didn’t post it here as I assumed it was a fake from people causing trouble. All I saw was a cropped image. Is it genuinely legit ?

    Poor old Rylan is getting a lot of hatred too.
    It’s real. It’s on the Telegraph website right now. Main headline. And it seems a reasonable summation of the government’s position

    Asylum seekers come first

    Do they begin to understand the anger they are breeding?
    No it’s not a reasonable summation . It’s a summation according to the DT to dupe the gullible .
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,646

    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    None of main childhood vaccine uptake targets reached in England - as MMR uptake hits 15-year low
    The uptake target for all childhood vaccines is 95% - but one of the main pre-school boosters has been administered to just over 80% of five-year-olds.

    https://news.sky.com/story/none-of-main-childhood-vaccine-uptake-targets-reached-in-england-as-mmr-uptake-hits-15-year-low-13419867

    I guess this means no sneering at America.

    It would be interesting to know which areas of the country are most responsible for the drop in vaccination, assuming it isn't uniform.
    Based on the anecdotes of my father’s ex-colleagues there’s a London factor and a white working class factor across the UK.

    Antivax sentiment has increased since the pandemic, there’s a lot of misinformation out there, it’s much worse than the Andrew Wakefield bullshit.

    Doctors are getting regularly abused when they suggest to some parents that their kids need their vaccines.
    London factor?
    A mixture of some recent arrivals and some very middle class people who won’t allow poisons to be injected into them or their kids, the sort that believe in homeopathy.
    I knew a man very well who died of Covid, because of his refusal to be "injected with poisons". He was a law graduate, from Trinity Hall, Cambridge, and I found it hard to fathom such stupidity.
    I had a friend, fairly intelligent, had a wonderful wife and three kids, was convinced Covid was a hoax and the vaccine was going to control/kill us all.

    Got into a row with his friends and family, some of whom had friends/family who died from Covid.

    Told his wife he would divorce her and would never see his kids if they got vaccinated.

    Well he’s divorced now, hasn’t seen his kids in four years, I’d like to blame social media, but it wasn’t that, he was just convinced by his own arguments.

    He went from earning a six figure salary, to being unemployed and living in a small one bedroom flat.

    From what I hear he was sacked from his job for being abusive to the vaccinated.
    "Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind" - William S Burroughs, https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/william_s_burroughs_149739
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,453
    Leon said:

    Can’t believe I’m reading this headline

    “Rights of asylum seekers trump the people of Epping, Home Office argues”

    It’s probably the worst headline I’ve ever read for any British government in my life

    If the Home Office covertly support Reform, and want a right wing dictatorship where they have control over everyone’s lives, however, that’s exactly what they would do.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,434
    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    PJH said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    I doubt it; that question is horribly leading and yet another tear in Yougov's increasingly tattered reputation.

    Reform could (and perhaps will) respond with polling showing a big majority in favour of their policy due to an equally leading question, and therefore polls become weapons of propaganda rather than useful indicators of public sentiment.

    ...which is pretty much what happened in the USA.

    RefUK really are using the tactics of their MAGA mates to the maximum possible, but it remains to be seen how for this works in a Parliamentary rather than a Presidential system. I think the best RefUK can do is gain enough seats to get a deadlock in the House of Commons, but actually taking power, especially with growing investigation of their policies and personnel seems like a very big ask indeed.
    With Lab and Con both on around 18-20%, LD on 14-17% and a Jez n'mates party on 15%, the FPTP system pretty much guarantees a majority for Reform on even a low 30s result.
    If the last 48 hours is anything to go by good luck with that low thirties. The Sultanas could be out in front by then.
    A split left, with Sultana tendencies leading, will I suspect drive centrist voters towards the expected bulwark against them.

    Tories and LDs for Reform; you heard it here first.
    LDs and One Nation Tories would never vote Reform and the Sultana Corbyn party looks like getting less than ten percent anyway
    If there were only Tory and Reform candidates in my patch, I might consider it
    :o
    We already know the Tories are incompetent and self-serving. And voting for them is just a vote for returning to the two-party status quo, whereas at least Reform, whilst likely just as incompetent and self-serving as the Tories, at least offers the prospect of 'breaking' the system.
    Let's hope that there are no seats where the only choice is Tory or Reform. What a choice!
    My own seat of Brentwood and Ongar had the Tories first and Reform second at the GE, overall there are likely to be 100 such seats at least given the higher Reform voteshare now and where the MP is still Tory
    Yes and there will be a lot of voters there who wouldn't even think of voting Tory there, to keep Reform out. I certainly wouldn't.
    I might, I could stomach voting for Alex Burghart but I would need an absolutely cast iron guarantee from the leader of the Conservative party during the election campaign that they will support a minority Labour government if doing so is necessary to keep Reform out.
    Hell will freeze over, and Leon will make a sensible prediction, both before that ever happens!
    You and Leon are like a bickering old married couple 😉

    I think if one of you ever left PB it would leave a massive void in the others online life.
    Nah. Foggy and Clegg after they lost Compo :wink: .
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,758
    "Your Dad shouts at Hotels" seems to be an increasingly popular expression in our school playgrounds...
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,056

    OllyT said:

    Forgive me if this has been raised before, but I am baffled by the time spent considering the Sultanas/Jezbollah as a credible political force. Where is their support going to come from? OK, I agree, the appalling situation in Gaza gives them a cause around which they can rally, but when a General Election comes, surely they are going to end up in the same category as the SWP, Communists, TUSC, IRP and all the other ideologically based left wing parties. Yes, they think Labour is doing a bad job (and so do I) but the average Labour voter isn't going to give much consideration to Corbyn - he's yesterday's man, and widely seen as a man who tried but failed. (Clegg and Johnson also come into that category.)

    No, if left-wing ideological voters want to punish the Labour Party then they will vote Green (or Nationalist, if one is available.) They might, at a stretch, think that the Lib Dems are pointless, but at least they are seen to be "sound" on Gaza, Trump, etc and a vote for them might get rid of another Tory. But this new Leftist concept has arrived too late in a crowded political marketplace, and their weaknesses (leadership, nomenclature, half-cocked launch etc) are already plain to see, long before the PR hatchet-men in ther Labour Party get to work on them.

    So, ignore them - they are not relevant now, and will not be at the next General Election.

    The nascent political grouping without a final name yet that is built around the Independent Alliance grouping have 6 MPs already. That makes them the fifth largest party in the Commons and 50% bigger than the Green Party. If the Green Party elect Polanski as their leader, as seems likely, you might have two parties looking rather similar, so which populist left firebrand do you want? Polanski or the original, Corbyn? Or maybe it's Polanski vs Sultana? Polanski wants an alliance, although Corbyn is sceptical of that. But my point is that I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Your Party. They might come out ahead of a tussle with the Greens, or part of a formal alliance with the Greens. Or they might sink without a trace.
    I'm a former MP for 13 years (not all that left-wing, though I was happy with Corbyn as leader), and have been a member of Labour since I was 21; I'm currently chair of my constituency CLP. I'm fed up with the negative slant of the current Labour leadership, but don't feel the Greens or the LibDems offer a coherent alternative, let alone a left-wing one, though I'd be open to the possibility of alliance. I'm therefore a possible switcher if the new party offers a coherent, largely positive alternative. If they end up like the SWP, certainly not, but we'll see.

    There are lots of Labour people like me - at least 25% of the membership, I'd say - and we are not exclusively basing our choices on probability to win outright We feel the voters are in sufficient flux to give a serious leftish party a reasonable chance. We might be wrong, but it's a mistake to assume we don't exist.
    I have been left of centre all of my life and only left the Labour party during Corbyn's reign. I think you are going to find that there is a very limited market for a party that appears to prioritise the interest of Palestinians over the interests of British people.

    However much I deplore Netanyahu's actions I know that Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran are the far greater threat to me than Israel will ever be. Much of the concern about the boats and asylum seekers is actually concern/fear about the impact of political islam on the UK and if you wish to dismiss/ridicule that as racist then so be it.

    It saddens me that all over Europe the left cannot see how islamic immigration is fuelling the far right. The day I hear Corbyn unequivocally criticising the mysogeny and homophobia of Hamas and their fellow travellers (or indeed many muslims in the UK) is the day I might listen to what he has to say but I know it will never happen
    Peter Tatchell took the lead on that front.
    Bravely but got no thanks for it. People like Corbyn just like to turn a blind eye.
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