There is something more than faintly ridiculous about a homeowner being force to cough up £116000 13 years after felling a common lime tree on her own land, while nothing happens to a pub in Enfield that cut down an historic oak on land that didn't belong to them.
The difference is, of course, the familiar pattern where an otherwise law abiding person hires a nice lawyer and engages with the process.
Versus the kind of person who frequents the back pages of Private Eye - crimes aplenty, wheedling their way out of any serious punishment.
Also worth noting that, of the £116k, only £16k is a fine, whole £100k is the council's legal costs awarded against her.
It is good to be reminded just how shite Tezzie was as PM.
But not as shite as Truss or Starmer
That’s a low bar. It’s scary to realise that May is the best of our last five Prime Ministers.
I think that's unfair (to three of the last five). Being PM is something that's complex enough to be hard to reduce to a simple one-dimensional good/bad index.
Boris Johnson, for example, was an instinctive liar and venal, which made him an unstoppable person to be PM, in a way that May was not. But in many ways he was better at the job of PM. He was able to delegate, which was important during the pandemic. He was able to inspire and lead.
I would say that he was much better at being PM than May, but that he had character defects that should have made it impossible for anyone to support him in becoming PM, while May was broadly speaking the reverse.
Sunak was a poor PM in many ways, but he did have at least one achievement to his name - the Windsor framework - which is one more than I can recall for May.
I would only put Truss as unequivocally below May in the rankings of the last five PMs.
What's the alternate UK government history had Cameron won the Brexit vote ?
It's hardly credible that it would have been worse.
if it had been 52/48 the other way It would be hard to see Cameron being totally off the hook. Leavers would be whingeing 10 years after the event. Cant see how our economic position would be that much better as Covid had a huge impact and all bets were off.. Our slow and gradual decline would keep gping under the EU much as it had in the previous twenty years.
"1. Overhaul of the civil service: replacement of all key leadership positions alligned to political priorities of incoming government. 2. Judicial reform: reasserting parliamentary sovereignty over political judicial activism. 3. Abolition of key QUANGOs, Commisions, "Independent" Bodies that have eroded democratic accountability and led to bureaucratic power-grab over the last 30 years. Without these basics, the next government will, like so many before, be tied in knots by the 'system' and fail to deliver on the priorities of the British people."
So that is: 1. Remove anyone from the machinery of government who doesn't parrot whatever madness is government policy 2. Ensure that all trials deliver the result demanded on X 3. Abolish any arms length agency so that all decisions on all things are made by ministers
The Conservative Party is over. They've gone utterly mad.
The third one I can buy into completely. All Governmental power should be exercised within the electoral system (from Parish to Parliament). Not handed off to semi-independent organisations with their own agendas.
The first two are just batshit crazy by people who don't understand either the British system nor the (very different) American system they are trying to emulate.
You don't think that it's good that some decisions are depoliticised and handed over to an arms length body? When, for example, NICE reviews the evidence of whether a drug is effective, or the MHRA reviews whether a new hip implant is safe, I think it's better that those decisions are NOT taken by politicians.
I am not suggesting they are taken by politicians directly. But they should be directly part of the relevant department within Government rather than being farmed off so politicians can claim they are not responsible for decisions. NICE is a good example. They are already making political decisions based on available public funding rather than the actual effectiveness of drugs or treatments. If such decisions are to be made then they should be the responsibility of the elected politicians.
Politicians should set the parameters, but you don't want them involved in individual drug decisions. I think that's handled well by having NICE as an arms length body. People trust the independence of NICE, but the parameters they work within are set by government.
It simply allows the Government to pretend it is not their fault that safe and effectve drugs are not available via the NHS.
Does it? You can criticise the political decision that determines the cut-off for cost effectiveness (which is the issue). People do.
"1. Overhaul of the civil service: replacement of all key leadership positions alligned to political priorities of incoming government. 2. Judicial reform: reasserting parliamentary sovereignty over political judicial activism. 3. Abolition of key QUANGOs, Commisions, "Independent" Bodies that have eroded democratic accountability and led to bureaucratic power-grab over the last 30 years. Without these basics, the next government will, like so many before, be tied in knots by the 'system' and fail to deliver on the priorities of the British people."
So that is: 1. Remove anyone from the machinery of government who doesn't parrot whatever madness is government policy 2. Ensure that all trials deliver the result demanded on X 3. Abolish any arms length agency so that all decisions on all things are made by ministers
The Conservative Party is over. They've gone utterly mad.
The third one I can buy into completely. All Governmental power should be exercised within the electoral system (from Parish to Parliament). Not handed off to semi-independent organisations with their own agendas.
The first two are just batshit crazy by people who don't understand either the British system nor the (very different) American system they are trying to emulate.
You don't think that it's good that some decisions are depoliticised and handed over to an arms length body? When, for example, NICE reviews the evidence of whether a drug is effective, or the MHRA reviews whether a new hip implant is safe, I think it's better that those decisions are NOT taken by politicians.
I am not suggesting they are taken by politicians directly. But they should be directly part of the relevant department within Government rather than being farmed off so politicians can claim they are not responsible for decisions. NICE is a good example. They are already making political decisions based on available public funding rather than the actual effectiveness of drugs or treatments. If such decisions are to be made then they should be the responsibility of the elected politicians.
Politicians should set the parameters, but you don't want them involved in individual drug decisions. I think that's handled well by having NICE as an arms length body. People trust the independence of NICE, but the parameters they work within are set by government.
And which now appear to be driving our pharma industry overseas.
NICE was an excellent wheeze when we were still EU members, as access to the continental market masked the policy tradeoffs that we're now having to start considering.
It wasn't just the EMA that we lost with Brexit.
Is NICE decision making driving the pharma industry overseas? Isn't that more about the MHRA?
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
You're comparing your current fantasy world with your earlier fantasy world.
Without considering which of them people who live in this country might actually prefer.
Though perhaps one reason you might think there are fewer Europeans in Britain is that many of them have integrated and now speak English.
Not at all. It was a more transitory population. My ex lives the life of a hippy in Crete and lives with a revolving population. She loves it. She's never been happier. Different people turn up at different times and they live a great life. If success is your thing she's had that. If your thing is six pints of beer on a Saturday night then little in the UK will have changed.
The Spanish have a saying about 'The smell of the paint' which is just another way of describing 'the vibe' and to a lot of people it doesn't matter at all. Leon despite his tales of derring do is one of them. I don't think there's a more MOR person on here. He swoons over Taylor swift and thinks Sydney Sweeney is the most alluring person he's seen. That's fine. That's his taste. Take a look at his room featured on here often. Enough said! Not everyone is sensitive to what goes on around them or the styling of the place they live in and that's why some like you and Leon like Brexit and others like me don't
So what you're saying is that the Europeans who live in Britain are the 'wrong' sort of Europeans.
That we now have Europeans who have integrated and speak English and have average lives with average families while doing average jobs and living in average houses in average towns.
And not 'citizens of anywhere' who would flutter around spending a season here and a year there while always talking in their own language.
My point was only that what I miss about not being in the EU is nothing to do with what colour people are or what hotels people are being put up in or whether they get here by plane or rubber boat just that the vibe was so much better when we were in. Its not a thing I can or want to quantify. I loved the feeling of being European which feels much less so now. Now we're English visiting Europe. The difference is subtle but it's there. I'm sure there are many more important reasons for hating Brexit but that's my No1.
As it’s such a beautiful day I will extend the olive branch and say: actually I can understand this
Indeed I felt a pang of it myself and it’s one of the reasons I could have voted Remain. I liked being “European” - I liked freedom of movement. I just despised the anti democratic EU. And something HAS been taken away now we’ve left
Also, I would feel bereft if Scotland left the UK. I would feel a vital chunk of my Britishness was gone. So I genuinely sympathise with your feelings
However whenever you make this point I am also mystified. You’ve lived in France (at least part time) for decades. Surely you have French residency and free moment so nothing has really been taken from YOU?
FoM comes with citizenship not residency. Rog would have that citizenship by now if he'd taken residence in 2016. But then he'd have to pay French taxes...
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
If idiots want to go around painting flags on highways then rather than vandalising roundabouts, a more productive thing to do would be to have a campaign of painting flags within potholes.
There's a steady stream of such reports from local government, as well as stories like the Reform councillor who threatened to kill his wife. Will they make any difference to the polling? Presumably not as it is those who engage least with the news and rely most on social media algorithms who tend to be Reform supporting.
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
You're comparing your current fantasy world with your earlier fantasy world.
Without considering which of them people who live in this country might actually prefer.
Though perhaps one reason you might think there are fewer Europeans in Britain is that many of them have integrated and now speak English.
Not at all. It was a more transitory population. My ex lives the life of a hippy in Crete and lives with a revolving population. She loves it. She's never been happier. Different people turn up at different times and they live a great life. If success is your thing she's had that. If your thing is six pints of beer on a Saturday night then little in the UK will have changed.
The Spanish have a saying about 'The smell of the paint' which is just another way of describing 'the vibe' and to a lot of people it doesn't matter at all. Leon despite his tales of derring do is one of them. I don't think there's a more MOR person on here. He swoons over Taylor swift and thinks Sydney Sweeney is the most alluring person he's seen. That's fine. That's his taste. Take a look at his room featured on here often. Enough said! Not everyone is sensitive to what goes on around them or the styling of the place they live in and that's why some like you and Leon like Brexit and others like me don't
lol
You are a low watt minor-public-school retired tampon advertising executive who lives in a neo fascist enclave surrounded by Russian noovs
You are, without question, the most vulgar person on here
I don't think Roger has ever sunk to vulgarly displaying pics of his garish soft furnishings, but chacun à son goût.
When we post waspish put downs accusing others of vulgarity, perhaps we could avoid splitting the infinitive.
When we waspishly accuse others of splitting an infinitive, we should make sure there is an infinitive to split.
(Hint: infinitives don't end with -ing and "to" is an adverbial particle belonging with "sink". Sunk isn't an infinitive either)
Lucky is a pedant in training. Cut him a little slack.
Thankfully I am cutting you a little slack, as the split infinitive was there, obvious, and acknowledged by the original poster, you utter pillock.
Nope, there's no infinitive, split or otherwise. Sunk is a past participle and displaying is a present participle or a gerund. What do you think is an infinitive? The verb is to sink to, a bit like to get up, or to fuck off. It's more like a German separable verb.
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
You're comparing your current fantasy world with your earlier fantasy world.
Without considering which of them people who live in this country might actually prefer.
Though perhaps one reason you might think there are fewer Europeans in Britain is that many of them have integrated and now speak English.
Not at all. It was a more transitory population. My ex lives the life of a hippy in Crete and lives with a revolving population. She loves it. She's never been happier. Different people turn up at different times and they live a great life. If success is your thing she's had that. If your thing is six pints of beer on a Saturday night then little in the UK will have changed.
The Spanish have a saying about 'The smell of the paint' which is just another way of describing 'the vibe' and to a lot of people it doesn't matter at all. Leon despite his tales of derring do is one of them. I don't think there's a more MOR person on here. He swoons over Taylor swift and thinks Sydney Sweeney is the most alluring person he's seen. That's fine. That's his taste. Take a look at his room featured on here often. Enough said! Not everyone is sensitive to what goes on around them or the styling of the place they live in and that's why some like you and Leon like Brexit and others like me don't
lol
You are a low watt minor-public-school retired tampon advertising executive who lives in a neo fascist enclave surrounded by Russian noovs
You are, without question, the most vulgar person on here
I don't think Roger has ever sunk to vulgarly displaying pics of his garish soft furnishings, but chacun à son goût.
When we post waspish put downs accusing others of vulgarity, perhaps we could avoid splitting the infinitive.
When we waspishly accuse others of splitting an infinitive, we should make sure there is an infinitive to split.
(Hint: infinitives don't end with -ing and "to" is an adverbial particle belonging with "sink". Sunk isn't an infinitive either)
Lucky is a pedant in training. Cut him a little slack.
Thankfully I am cutting you a little slack, as the split infinitive was there, obvious, and acknowledged by the original poster, you utter pillock.
Nope, there's no infinitive, split or otherwise. Sunk is a past participle and displaying is a present participle or a gerund. What do you think is an infinitive? The verb is to sink to, a bit like to get up, or to fuck off. It's more like a German separable verb.
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
You're comparing your current fantasy world with your earlier fantasy world.
Without considering which of them people who live in this country might actually prefer.
Though perhaps one reason you might think there are fewer Europeans in Britain is that many of them have integrated and now speak English.
Not at all. It was a more transitory population. My ex lives the life of a hippy in Crete and lives with a revolving population. She loves it. She's never been happier. Different people turn up at different times and they live a great life. If success is your thing she's had that. If your thing is six pints of beer on a Saturday night then little in the UK will have changed.
The Spanish have a saying about 'The smell of the paint' which is just another way of describing 'the vibe' and to a lot of people it doesn't matter at all. Leon despite his tales of derring do is one of them. I don't think there's a more MOR person on here. He swoons over Taylor swift and thinks Sydney Sweeney is the most alluring person he's seen. That's fine. That's his taste. Take a look at his room featured on here often. Enough said! Not everyone is sensitive to what goes on around them or the styling of the place they live in and that's why some like you and Leon like Brexit and others like me don't
I'm currently lying on the beach in Marbella, drinking beer and listening to Taylor Swift, so I hope that if anyone holds the vulgarity crown today it is me.
I’m on a train passing through Tunbridge Wells. No flags to be seen
I’m with my older daughter having a day out. We’re off to do battle. As in, do Battle. We’re going to see the site of the battle of Hastings (neither of us has been before)
I’ve just noticed that she is intensely reading Jack Kerouac’s “On The Road”
*proud father*
Reading Kerouac is impressive for 11 and 12-year-olds. Your daughter is, well, however old she is, and ought to have moved on.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. (SNip)
How do journalists get into Gaza? I assume they need permission from the Israelis; I also guess they'd need permission from the Gazan authorities as well (i.e. Hamas). AIUI the BBC have no reporters in Gaza, because of Israeli restrictions, so have to rely on ones already in Gaza. Who I would guess might be rather pro-Palestinian...
(This is another way I think Israel is being stoopid.)
In fairness, I don't think they are.
a) No foreign journalists are allowed on the front line of Ukraine / Russia war. They let them in the first few weeks of the war have wider access, they got ambushed, shot at, etc, it was a shit show. Gaza is a very much a live warzone, where the front line is basically the whole of Gaza as it is tiny area.
b) Having hostages is huge leverage for Hamas. It would be the obvious thing to do is take Western journalists hostage. If that happened, Israel would get the blame for letting them go.
Remarkable how many people here fail to comprehend that Gaza is a war zone.
The amount of people who spread bullshit that its an "occupation" not a war zone, then react with outrage and indignation that the IDF might go into Gaza City.
Weird that they might have to fight to get into a city they supposedly already occupy. Almost as if its a war zone and not an occupation.
Even the IDF is tired of Bibi's strategy of withdrawing and re-invading to keep the conflict looking good for the cameras, and keeping his corruption trial in slow motion.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. (SNip)
How do journalists get into Gaza? I assume they need permission from the Israelis; I also guess they'd need permission from the Gazan authorities as well (i.e. Hamas). AIUI the BBC have no reporters in Gaza, because of Israeli restrictions, so have to rely on ones already in Gaza. Who I would guess might be rather pro-Palestinian...
(This is another way I think Israel is being stoopid.)
In fairness, I don't think they are.
a) No foreign journalists are allowed on the front line of Ukraine / Russia war. They let them in the first few weeks of the war have wider access, they got ambushed, shot at, etc, it was a shit show. Gaza is a very much a live warzone, where the front line is basically the whole of Gaza as it is tiny area.
b) Having hostages is huge leverage for Hamas. It would be the obvious thing to do is take Western journalists hostage. If that happened, Israel would get the blame for letting them go.
Remarkable how many people here fail to comprehend that Gaza is a war zone.
The amount of people who spread bullshit that its an "occupation" not a war zone, then react with outrage and indignation that the IDF might go into Gaza City.
Weird that they might have to fight to get into a city they supposedly already occupy. Almost as if its a war zone and not an occupation.
Even the IDF is tired of Bibi's strategy of withdrawing and re-invading to keep the conflict looking good for the cameras, and keeping his corruption trial in slow motion.
Hopefully Bibi is replaced soon as leader, goes to a richly deserved prison cell, and a much more ruthless PM can replace him that will fully defeat Hamas.
"1. Overhaul of the civil service: replacement of all key leadership positions alligned to political priorities of incoming government. 2. Judicial reform: reasserting parliamentary sovereignty over political judicial activism. 3. Abolition of key QUANGOs, Commisions, "Independent" Bodies that have eroded democratic accountability and led to bureaucratic power-grab over the last 30 years. Without these basics, the next government will, like so many before, be tied in knots by the 'system' and fail to deliver on the priorities of the British people."
So that is: 1. Remove anyone from the machinery of government who doesn't parrot whatever madness is government policy 2. Ensure that all trials deliver the result demanded on X 3. Abolish any arms length agency so that all decisions on all things are made by ministers
The Conservative Party is over. They've gone utterly mad.
The third one I can buy into completely. All Governmental power should be exercised within the electoral system (from Parish to Parliament). Not handed off to semi-independent organisations with their own agendas.
The first two are just batshit crazy by people who don't understand either the British system nor the (very different) American system they are trying to emulate.
You don't think that it's good that some decisions are depoliticised and handed over to an arms length body? When, for example, NICE reviews the evidence of whether a drug is effective, or the MHRA reviews whether a new hip implant is safe, I think it's better that those decisions are NOT taken by politicians.
I am not suggesting they are taken by politicians directly. But they should be directly part of the relevant department within Government rather than being farmed off so politicians can claim they are not responsible for decisions. NICE is a good example. They are already making political decisions based on available public funding rather than the actual effectiveness of drugs or treatments. If such decisions are to be made then they should be the responsibility of the elected politicians.
Politicians should set the parameters, but you don't want them involved in individual drug decisions. I think that's handled well by having NICE as an arms length body. People trust the independence of NICE, but the parameters they work within are set by government.
And which now appear to be driving our pharma industry overseas.
NICE was an excellent wheeze when we were still EU members, as access to the continental market masked the policy tradeoffs that we're now having to start considering.
It wasn't just the EMA that we lost with Brexit.
Is NICE decision making driving the pharma industry overseas? Isn't that more about the MHRA?
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF? from 2023
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
It is good to be reminded just how shite Tezzie was as PM.
But not as shite as Truss or Starmer
That’s a low bar. It’s scary to realise that May is the best of our last five Prime Ministers.
I think that's unfair (to three of the last five). Being PM is something that's complex enough to be hard to reduce to a simple one-dimensional good/bad index.
Boris Johnson, for example, was an instinctive liar and venal, which made him an unstoppable person to be PM, in a way that May was not. But in many ways he was better at the job of PM. He was able to delegate, which was important during the pandemic. He was able to inspire and lead.
I would say that he was much better at being PM than May, but that he had character defects that should have made it impossible for anyone to support him in becoming PM, while May was broadly speaking the reverse.
Sunak was a poor PM in many ways, but he did have at least one achievement to his name - the Windsor framework - which is one more than I can recall for May.
I would only put Truss as unequivocally below May in the rankings of the last five PMs.
What's the alternate UK government history had Cameron won the Brexit vote ?
It's hardly credible that it would have been worse.
Well, let's see.
UKIP surge in the polls.
Someone takes over from Cameron in 2018-ish, against the backdrop of the Tory party being riven over arguments at to whether the wrong side won the referendum, and they should have another one without the lies from the winning side.
The government holds on for a May 2020 election, but Covid hits - the civil contingencies act is invoked to extend Parliament beyond its five year term, boosting Reform/Corbyn Labour further.
At the delayed 2020GE Cameron's successor loses their tiny majority, assuming it still existed by that point. Whether a government has to be formed with a coalition with Farage, or Corbyn is able to put a government together, I don't know, but this means Britain now has a Putin-apologist and anti-vaxxer in government at the time that the country requires a mass vaccination program, and less than two years before Russia attempts to capture Kyiv.
I don't know. It doesn't ever seem that hard to imagine how things could be worse.
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
You're comparing your current fantasy world with your earlier fantasy world.
Without considering which of them people who live in this country might actually prefer.
Though perhaps one reason you might think there are fewer Europeans in Britain is that many of them have integrated and now speak English.
Not at all. It was a more transitory population. My ex lives the life of a hippy in Crete and lives with a revolving population. She loves it. She's never been happier. Different people turn up at different times and they live a great life. If success is your thing she's had that. If your thing is six pints of beer on a Saturday night then little in the UK will have changed.
The Spanish have a saying about 'The smell of the paint' which is just another way of describing 'the vibe' and to a lot of people it doesn't matter at all. Leon despite his tales of derring do is one of them. I don't think there's a more MOR person on here. He swoons over Taylor swift and thinks Sydney Sweeney is the most alluring person he's seen. That's fine. That's his taste. Take a look at his room featured on here often. Enough said! Not everyone is sensitive to what goes on around them or the styling of the place they live in and that's why some like you and Leon like Brexit and others like me don't
I'm currently lying on the beach in Marbella, drinking beer and listening to Taylor Swift, so I hope that if anyone holds the vulgarity crown today it is me.
I’m on a train passing through Tunbridge Wells. No flags to be seen
I’m with my older daughter having a day out. We’re off to do battle. As in, do Battle. We’re going to see the site of the battle of Hastings (neither of us has been before)
I’ve just noticed that she is intensely reading Jack Kerouac’s “On The Road”
*proud father*
We were at my parents in Tunbridge Wells today coincidentally. Tunbridge Wells was the only local authority in Kent to vote Remain and is the only Kent seat with a LD MP so unlikely to be flag central
You only have to go down the road to Tonbridge to probably find flags.
It is good to be reminded just how shite Tezzie was as PM.
But not as shite as Truss or Starmer
That’s a low bar. It’s scary to realise that May is the best of our last five Prime Ministers.
I think that's unfair (to three of the last five). Being PM is something that's complex enough to be hard to reduce to a simple one-dimensional good/bad index.
Boris Johnson, for example, was an instinctive liar and venal, which made him an unstoppable person to be PM, in a way that May was not. But in many ways he was better at the job of PM. He was able to delegate, which was important during the pandemic. He was able to inspire and lead.
I would say that he was much better at being PM than May, but that he had character defects that should have made it impossible for anyone to support him in becoming PM, while May was broadly speaking the reverse.
Sunak was a poor PM in many ways, but he did have at least one achievement to his name - the Windsor framework - which is one more than I can recall for May.
I would only put Truss as unequivocally below May in the rankings of the last five PMs.
What's the alternate UK government history had Cameron won the Brexit vote ?
It's hardly credible that it would have been worse.
if it had been 52/48 the other way It would be hard to see Cameron being totally off the hook. Leavers would be whingeing 10 years after the event. Cant see how our economic position would be that much better as Covid had a huge impact and all bets were off.. Our slow and gradual decline would keep gping under the EU much as it had in the previous twenty years.
I was asking about the alt government history. The economy is a separate, albeit linked issue.
On the latter score, we'd have had none of the costs of leaving the single market; we'd still have had institutions like the EMA in the UK; we might well have gained the Tesla factory at Germany's expense; the disruption to science and research collaborations wouldn't have happened.
The Boriswave wouldn't have happened.
And Putin's SMO would have been a little less likely.
No one is pretending it would have solved all our problems. But it's perfectly credible to argue they wouldn't have been as bad.
And the succession of idiot Tory PMs almost certainly would not have happened.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. (SNip)
How do journalists get into Gaza? I assume they need permission from the Israelis; I also guess they'd need permission from the Gazan authorities as well (i.e. Hamas). AIUI the BBC have no reporters in Gaza, because of Israeli restrictions, so have to rely on ones already in Gaza. Who I would guess might be rather pro-Palestinian...
(This is another way I think Israel is being stoopid.)
In fairness, I don't think they are.
a) No foreign journalists are allowed on the front line of Ukraine / Russia war. They let them in the first few weeks of the war have wider access, they got ambushed, shot at, etc, it was a shit show. Gaza is a very much a live warzone, where the front line is basically the whole of Gaza as it is tiny area.
b) Having hostages is huge leverage for Hamas. It would be the obvious thing to do is take Western journalists hostage. If that happened, Israel would get the blame for letting them go.
Remarkable how many people here fail to comprehend that Gaza is a war zone.
The amount of people who spread bullshit that its an "occupation" not a war zone, then react with outrage and indignation that the IDF might go into Gaza City.
Weird that they might have to fight to get into a city they supposedly already occupy. Almost as if its a war zone and not an occupation.
It's been a deliberate Israeli decision to refuse to occupy territory and instead have Gaza as a permanent war zone.
The only way to defeat Hamas would be by occupying Gaza and creating a replacement civil authority, but Israel have chosen permanent war instead.
It's been one of the most cynical acts in history.
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
You're comparing your current fantasy world with your earlier fantasy world.
Without considering which of them people who live in this country might actually prefer.
Though perhaps one reason you might think there are fewer Europeans in Britain is that many of them have integrated and now speak English.
Not at all. It was a more transitory population. My ex lives the life of a hippy in Crete and lives with a revolving population. She loves it. She's never been happier. Different people turn up at different times and they live a great life. If success is your thing she's had that. If your thing is six pints of beer on a Saturday night then little in the UK will have changed.
The Spanish have a saying about 'The smell of the paint' which is just another way of describing 'the vibe' and to a lot of people it doesn't matter at all. Leon despite his tales of derring do is one of them. I don't think there's a more MOR person on here. He swoons over Taylor swift and thinks Sydney Sweeney is the most alluring person he's seen. That's fine. That's his taste. Take a look at his room featured on here often. Enough said! Not everyone is sensitive to what goes on around them or the styling of the place they live in and that's why some like you and Leon like Brexit and others like me don't
lol
You are a low watt minor-public-school retired tampon advertising executive who lives in a neo fascist enclave surrounded by Russian noovs
You are, without question, the most vulgar person on here
I don't think Roger has ever sunk to vulgarly displaying pics of his garish soft furnishings, but chacun à son goût.
When we post waspish put downs accusing others of vulgarity, perhaps we could avoid splitting the infinitive.
When we waspishly accuse others of splitting an infinitive, we should make sure there is an infinitive to split.
(Hint: infinitives don't end with -ing and "to" is an adverbial particle belonging with "sink". Sunk isn't an infinitive either)
When we waspishly attempt to hoist someone with their own petard, perhaps we should get the right part of the sentence, otherwise we could end up looking like a twat, couldn't we? HINT.
Split Infinitive Meaning Yes, "vulgarly displaying" splits the infinitive. The infinitive "to display" is split by the adverb "vulgarly," which is placed between "to" and the verb "display".
I've a 1922 copy of The Jungle Book, with an elephant and a small swastika on the front. The broken cross was used by many cultures, including Hindus.
You may be right about reclaiming it. But the cross of Saint George is not remotely the same thing.
Yet.
We'll know the boundary has been crossed when people start fleeing the UK rather than endangering themselves to get in, but by then it will probably be too late.
Anecdotage warning: saw one of my best friends at the weekend, currently working very successfully in the US with citizenship, American wife & 2 kids. They are seriously thinking about moving to UK (back to UK in friend's case), so it does happen. I stifled any frying pan and fire comments.
Yes, the US was in my mind. We've had anecdotes of PBers who've changed their minds about going there. No doubt the flag business has the same effect on would be immigrants to the UK. Eventually I'd expect to see a natural drop in the number of people arriving in small boats. They have Internet access and must be aware of the flag business. Once the story sinks in that the UK is the primary place where such dreadful people live, those in the Calais camps etc will presumably prefer to stay in France where they're safe from such threats.
Sad times.
That is presumably what quite a few of the flag hangers want. So you’re saying it will work?
I've no idea, but if people who are already here feel threatened by UK people waving the UK national flags because of the flags' association with historic atrocities, why would that threat not also put off others who aren't here yet?
I'd have thought that any impact on illegal immigration (small boats) would probably be a very late effect of the flag waving. People who are prepared to expose themselves to real danger to come here aren't likely to be put off by the threat implied by UK national flag waving. OTOH people who are merely considering making the choice to come would be more easily put off and people who are already here could perhaps feel too threatened to stay.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. (SNip)
How do journalists get into Gaza? I assume they need permission from the Israelis; I also guess they'd need permission from the Gazan authorities as well (i.e. Hamas). AIUI the BBC have no reporters in Gaza, because of Israeli restrictions, so have to rely on ones already in Gaza. Who I would guess might be rather pro-Palestinian...
(This is another way I think Israel is being stoopid.)
In fairness, I don't think they are.
a) No foreign journalists are allowed on the front line of Ukraine / Russia war. They let them in the first few weeks of the war have wider access, they got ambushed, shot at, etc, it was a shit show. Gaza is a very much a live warzone, where the front line is basically the whole of Gaza as it is tiny area.
b) Having hostages is huge leverage for Hamas. It would be the obvious thing to do is take Western journalists hostage. If that happened, Israel would get the blame for letting them go.
Remarkable how many people here fail to comprehend that Gaza is a war zone.
The amount of people who spread bullshit that its an "occupation" not a war zone, then react with outrage and indignation that the IDF might go into Gaza City.
Weird that they might have to fight to get into a city they supposedly already occupy. Almost as if its a war zone and not an occupation.
It's been a deliberate Israeli decision to refuse to occupy territory and instead have Gaza as a permanent war zone.
The only way to defeat Hamas would be by occupying Gaza and creating a replacement civil authority, but Israel have chosen permanent war instead.
It's been one of the most cynical acts in history.
Actually Israel had withdrawn completely from Gaza until Hamas's atrocities on 7 October.
They can't occupy Gaza as Hamas haven't been defeated yet.
Once Hamas surrenders in full, unconditionally, and releases all hostages then the fighting can end. You can't create a replacement civil authority while Hamas still fights on and holds hostages.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
You're comparing your current fantasy world with your earlier fantasy world.
Without considering which of them people who live in this country might actually prefer.
Though perhaps one reason you might think there are fewer Europeans in Britain is that many of them have integrated and now speak English.
Not at all. It was a more transitory population. My ex lives the life of a hippy in Crete and lives with a revolving population. She loves it. She's never been happier. Different people turn up at different times and they live a great life. If success is your thing she's had that. If your thing is six pints of beer on a Saturday night then little in the UK will have changed.
The Spanish have a saying about 'The smell of the paint' which is just another way of describing 'the vibe' and to a lot of people it doesn't matter at all. Leon despite his tales of derring do is one of them. I don't think there's a more MOR person on here. He swoons over Taylor swift and thinks Sydney Sweeney is the most alluring person he's seen. That's fine. That's his taste. Take a look at his room featured on here often. Enough said! Not everyone is sensitive to what goes on around them or the styling of the place they live in and that's why some like you and Leon like Brexit and others like me don't
lol
You are a low watt minor-public-school retired tampon advertising executive who lives in a neo fascist enclave surrounded by Russian noovs
You are, without question, the most vulgar person on here
I don't think Roger has ever sunk to vulgarly displaying pics of his garish soft furnishings, but chacun à son goût.
When we post waspish put downs accusing others of vulgarity, perhaps we could avoid splitting the infinitive.
When we waspishly accuse others of splitting an infinitive, we should make sure there is an infinitive to split.
(Hint: infinitives don't end with -ing and "to" is an adverbial particle belonging with "sink". Sunk isn't an infinitive either)
Lucky is a pedant in training. Cut him a little slack.
Thankfully I am cutting you a little slack, as the split infinitive was there, obvious, and acknowledged by the original poster, you utter pillock.
Maybe find out what an infinitive is before calling people names.
if it had been 52/48 the other way It would be hard to see Cameron being totally off the hook. Leavers would be whingeing 10 years after the event.
Leavers are whingeing 10 years after the event
What snowflakes ! We hear the same tired excuses , if only a proper Brexit had done like Singapore on steroids , of course forgetting the huge percentage of immigrants they have there . It’s like they’ve ignored the fact that no country in the history of trade has decided to put up barriers against its biggest trading partner .
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. (SNip)
How do journalists get into Gaza? I assume they need permission from the Israelis; I also guess they'd need permission from the Gazan authorities as well (i.e. Hamas). AIUI the BBC have no reporters in Gaza, because of Israeli restrictions, so have to rely on ones already in Gaza. Who I would guess might be rather pro-Palestinian...
(This is another way I think Israel is being stoopid.)
In fairness, I don't think they are.
a) No foreign journalists are allowed on the front line of Ukraine / Russia war. They let them in the first few weeks of the war have wider access, they got ambushed, shot at, etc, it was a shit show. Gaza is a very much a live warzone, where the front line is basically the whole of Gaza as it is tiny area.
b) Having hostages is huge leverage for Hamas. It would be the obvious thing to do is take Western journalists hostage. If that happened, Israel would get the blame for letting them go.
Remarkable how many people here fail to comprehend that Gaza is a war zone.
The amount of people who spread bullshit that its an "occupation" not a war zone, then react with outrage and indignation that the IDF might go into Gaza City.
Weird that they might have to fight to get into a city they supposedly already occupy. Almost as if its a war zone and not an occupation.
It's been a deliberate Israeli decision to refuse to occupy territory and instead have Gaza as a permanent war zone.
The only way to defeat Hamas would be by occupying Gaza and creating a replacement civil authority, but Israel have chosen permanent war instead.
It's been one of the most cynical acts in history.
Actually Israel had withdrawn completely from Gaza until Hamas's atrocities on 7 October.
They can't occupy Gaza as Hamas haven't been defeated yet.
Once Hamas surrenders in full, unconditionally, and releases all hostages then the fighting can end. You can't create a replacement civil authority while Hamas still fights on and holds hostages.
The Israeli military could have occupied Gaza less than a month after the Hamas attack.
I'm sure Hamas would have fought a bloody insurgency, and I don't know whether Israel would have been able to defeat that, but it would have been a better approach to try than what they have chosen to do.
if it had been 52/48 the other way It would be hard to see Cameron being totally off the hook. Leavers would be whingeing 10 years after the event.
Leavers are whingeing 10 years after the event
What snowflakes ! We hear the same tired excuses , if only a proper Brexit had done like Singapore on steroids , of course forgetting the huge percentage of immigrants they have there . It’s like they’ve ignored the fact that no country in the history of trade has decided to put up barriers against its biggest trading partner .
Smoot-Hawley, USA 1930?
But given what happened, it certainly wouldn't affect your argument.
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
You're comparing your current fantasy world with your earlier fantasy world.
Without considering which of them people who live in this country might actually prefer.
Though perhaps one reason you might think there are fewer Europeans in Britain is that many of them have integrated and now speak English.
Not at all. It was a more transitory population. My ex lives the life of a hippy in Crete and lives with a revolving population. She loves it. She's never been happier. Different people turn up at different times and they live a great life. If success is your thing she's had that. If your thing is six pints of beer on a Saturday night then little in the UK will have changed.
The Spanish have a saying about 'The smell of the paint' which is just another way of describing 'the vibe' and to a lot of people it doesn't matter at all. Leon despite his tales of derring do is one of them. I don't think there's a more MOR person on here. He swoons over Taylor swift and thinks Sydney Sweeney is the most alluring person he's seen. That's fine. That's his taste. Take a look at his room featured on here often. Enough said! Not everyone is sensitive to what goes on around them or the styling of the place they live in and that's why some like you and Leon like Brexit and others like me don't
I'm currently lying on the beach in Marbella, drinking beer and listening to Taylor Swift, so I hope that if anyone holds the vulgarity crown today it is me.
I’m on a train passing through Tunbridge Wells. No flags to be seen
I’m with my older daughter having a day out. We’re off to do battle. As in, do Battle. We’re going to see the site of the battle of Hastings (neither of us has been before)
I’ve just noticed that she is intensely reading Jack Kerouac’s “On The Road”
*proud father*
Reading Kerouac is impressive for 11 and 12-year-olds. Your daughter is, well, however old she is, and ought to have moved on.
Nevertheless it is always encouraging to see children making an effort to correct for the mistakes or failings of their parents.
"1. Overhaul of the civil service: replacement of all key leadership positions alligned to political priorities of incoming government. 2. Judicial reform: reasserting parliamentary sovereignty over political judicial activism. 3. Abolition of key QUANGOs, Commisions, "Independent" Bodies that have eroded democratic accountability and led to bureaucratic power-grab over the last 30 years. Without these basics, the next government will, like so many before, be tied in knots by the 'system' and fail to deliver on the priorities of the British people."
So that is: 1. Remove anyone from the machinery of government who doesn't parrot whatever madness is government policy 2. Ensure that all trials deliver the result demanded on X 3. Abolish any arms length agency so that all decisions on all things are made by ministers
The Conservative Party is over. They've gone utterly mad.
The third one I can buy into completely. All Governmental power should be exercised within the electoral system (from Parish to Parliament). Not handed off to semi-independent organisations with their own agendas.
The first two are just batshit crazy by people who don't understand either the British system nor the (very different) American system they are trying to emulate.
You don't think that it's good that some decisions are depoliticised and handed over to an arms length body? When, for example, NICE reviews the evidence of whether a drug is effective, or the MHRA reviews whether a new hip implant is safe, I think it's better that those decisions are NOT taken by politicians.
I am not suggesting they are taken by politicians directly. But they should be directly part of the relevant department within Government rather than being farmed off so politicians can claim they are not responsible for decisions. NICE is a good example. They are already making political decisions based on available public funding rather than the actual effectiveness of drugs or treatments. If such decisions are to be made then they should be the responsibility of the elected politicians.
Politicians should set the parameters, but you don't want them involved in individual drug decisions. I think that's handled well by having NICE as an arms length body. People trust the independence of NICE, but the parameters they work within are set by government.
And which now appear to be driving our pharma industry overseas.
NICE was an excellent wheeze when we were still EU members, as access to the continental market masked the policy tradeoffs that we're now having to start considering.
It wasn't just the EMA that we lost with Brexit.
Is NICE decision making driving the pharma industry overseas? Isn't that more about the MHRA?
It's about the size of the UK drug market, and the fact that NICE won't fund many new treatments. That was less of an issue we were part of the single market.
The UK is simply less attractive now as a base for pharma.
There was also the general damage done to research collaborations involving Europe.
I've a 1922 copy of The Jungle Book, with an elephant and a small swastika on the front. The broken cross was used by many cultures, including Hindus.
You may be right about reclaiming it. But the cross of Saint George is not remotely the same thing.
Yet.
We'll know the boundary has been crossed when people start fleeing the UK rather than endangering themselves to get in, but by then it will probably be too late.
Anecdotage warning: saw one of my best friends at the weekend, currently working very successfully in the US with citizenship, American wife & 2 kids. They are seriously thinking about moving to UK (back to UK in friend's case), so it does happen. I stifled any frying pan and fire comments.
Yes, the US was in my mind. We've had anecdotes of PBers who've changed their minds about going there. No doubt the flag business has the same effect on would be immigrants to the UK. Eventually I'd expect to see a natural drop in the number of people arriving in small boats. They have Internet access and must be aware of the flag business. Once the story sinks in that the UK is the primary place where such dreadful people live, those in the Calais camps etc will presumably prefer to stay in France where they're safe from such threats.
Sad times.
That is presumably what quite a few of the flag hangers want. So you’re saying it will work?
I've no idea, but if people who are already here feel threatened by UK people waving the UK national flags because of the flags' association with historic atrocities, why would that threat not also put off others who aren't here yet?
I'd have thought that any impact on illegal immigration (small boats) would probably be a very late effect of the flag waving. People who are prepared to expose themselves to real danger to come here aren't likely to be put off by the threat implied by UK national flag waving. OTOH people who are merely considering making the choice to come would be more easily put off and people who are already here could perhaps feel too threatened to stay.
It's all very sad.
the pavements covered with gold outweigh any risks, they are safe in France but do not get largesse and guaranteed to stay forever
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. (SNip)
How do journalists get into Gaza? I assume they need permission from the Israelis; I also guess they'd need permission from the Gazan authorities as well (i.e. Hamas). AIUI the BBC have no reporters in Gaza, because of Israeli restrictions, so have to rely on ones already in Gaza. Who I would guess might be rather pro-Palestinian...
(This is another way I think Israel is being stoopid.)
In fairness, I don't think they are.
a) No foreign journalists are allowed on the front line of Ukraine / Russia war. They let them in the first few weeks of the war have wider access, they got ambushed, shot at, etc, it was a shit show. Gaza is a very much a live warzone, where the front line is basically the whole of Gaza as it is tiny area.
b) Having hostages is huge leverage for Hamas. It would be the obvious thing to do is take Western journalists hostage. If that happened, Israel would get the blame for letting them go.
Remarkable how many people here fail to comprehend that Gaza is a war zone.
The amount of people who spread bullshit that its an "occupation" not a war zone, then react with outrage and indignation that the IDF might go into Gaza City.
Weird that they might have to fight to get into a city they supposedly already occupy. Almost as if its a war zone and not an occupation.
It's been a deliberate Israeli decision to refuse to occupy territory and instead have Gaza as a permanent war zone.
The only way to defeat Hamas would be by occupying Gaza and creating a replacement civil authority, but Israel have chosen permanent war instead.
It's been one of the most cynical acts in history.
You can tell they're getting desperate because literally any criticism is met with "you're a Hamas supporter". No attempt to justify it or explain anymore.
I can find some solace in the polling numbers which puts me squarely in a very large majority who think the Israeli government have gone too far. Barty, Blanche and the rest find themselves in a minority of 12% - don't let them make us feel like the weird ones.
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
You're comparing your current fantasy world with your earlier fantasy world.
Without considering which of them people who live in this country might actually prefer.
Though perhaps one reason you might think there are fewer Europeans in Britain is that many of them have integrated and now speak English.
Not at all. It was a more transitory population. My ex lives the life of a hippy in Crete and lives with a revolving population. She loves it. She's never been happier. Different people turn up at different times and they live a great life. If success is your thing she's had that. If your thing is six pints of beer on a Saturday night then little in the UK will have changed.
The Spanish have a saying about 'The smell of the paint' which is just another way of describing 'the vibe' and to a lot of people it doesn't matter at all. Leon despite his tales of derring do is one of them. I don't think there's a more MOR person on here. He swoons over Taylor swift and thinks Sydney Sweeney is the most alluring person he's seen. That's fine. That's his taste. Take a look at his room featured on here often. Enough said! Not everyone is sensitive to what goes on around them or the styling of the place they live in and that's why some like you and Leon like Brexit and others like me don't
lol
You are a low watt minor-public-school retired tampon advertising executive who lives in a neo fascist enclave surrounded by Russian noovs
You are, without question, the most vulgar person on here
I don't think Roger has ever sunk to vulgarly displaying pics of his garish soft furnishings, but chacun à son goût.
When we post waspish put downs accusing others of vulgarity, perhaps we could avoid splitting the infinitive.
When we waspishly accuse others of splitting an infinitive, we should make sure there is an infinitive to split.
(Hint: infinitives don't end with -ing and "to" is an adverbial particle belonging with "sink". Sunk isn't an infinitive either)
Lucky is a pedant in training. Cut him a little slack.
Thankfully I am cutting you a little slack, as the split infinitive was there, obvious, and acknowledged by the original poster, you utter pillock.
Maybe find out what an infinitive is before calling people names.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. (SNip)
How do journalists get into Gaza? I assume they need permission from the Israelis; I also guess they'd need permission from the Gazan authorities as well (i.e. Hamas). AIUI the BBC have no reporters in Gaza, because of Israeli restrictions, so have to rely on ones already in Gaza. Who I would guess might be rather pro-Palestinian...
(This is another way I think Israel is being stoopid.)
In fairness, I don't think they are.
a) No foreign journalists are allowed on the front line of Ukraine / Russia war. They let them in the first few weeks of the war have wider access, they got ambushed, shot at, etc, it was a shit show. Gaza is a very much a live warzone, where the front line is basically the whole of Gaza as it is tiny area.
b) Having hostages is huge leverage for Hamas. It would be the obvious thing to do is take Western journalists hostage. If that happened, Israel would get the blame for letting them go.
Remarkable how many people here fail to comprehend that Gaza is a war zone.
The amount of people who spread bullshit that its an "occupation" not a war zone, then react with outrage and indignation that the IDF might go into Gaza City.
Weird that they might have to fight to get into a city they supposedly already occupy. Almost as if its a war zone and not an occupation.
It's been a deliberate Israeli decision to refuse to occupy territory and instead have Gaza as a permanent war zone.
The only way to defeat Hamas would be by occupying Gaza and creating a replacement civil authority, but Israel have chosen permanent war instead.
It's been one of the most cynical acts in history.
Actually Israel had withdrawn completely from Gaza until Hamas's atrocities on 7 October.
They can't occupy Gaza as Hamas haven't been defeated yet.
Once Hamas surrenders in full, unconditionally, and releases all hostages then the fighting can end. You can't create a replacement civil authority while Hamas still fights on and holds hostages.
The Israeli military could have occupied Gaza less than a month after the Hamas attack.
I'm sure Hamas would have fought a bloody insurgency, and I don't know whether Israel would have been able to defeat that, but it would have been a better approach to try than what they have chosen to do.
Isreal didn’t want the body bags coming back so decided to destroy all infrastructure and 90% of the buildings from afar . Now Israel is fast becoming one of the most hated nations on the planet which is unfortunate given quite a few Jews think it’s gone too far . And holocaust survivors were imploring Netenyahu to stop as they remember the genocide of WW2 .
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
"1. Overhaul of the civil service: replacement of all key leadership positions alligned to political priorities of incoming government. 2. Judicial reform: reasserting parliamentary sovereignty over political judicial activism. 3. Abolition of key QUANGOs, Commisions, "Independent" Bodies that have eroded democratic accountability and led to bureaucratic power-grab over the last 30 years. Without these basics, the next government will, like so many before, be tied in knots by the 'system' and fail to deliver on the priorities of the British people."
So that is: 1. Remove anyone from the machinery of government who doesn't parrot whatever madness is government policy 2. Ensure that all trials deliver the result demanded on X 3. Abolish any arms length agency so that all decisions on all things are made by ministers
The Conservative Party is over. They've gone utterly mad.
The third one I can buy into completely. All Governmental power should be exercised within the electoral system (from Parish to Parliament). Not handed off to semi-independent organisations with their own agendas.
The first two are just batshit crazy by people who don't understand either the British system nor the (very different) American system they are trying to emulate.
You don't think that it's good that some decisions are depoliticised and handed over to an arms length body? When, for example, NICE reviews the evidence of whether a drug is effective, or the MHRA reviews whether a new hip implant is safe, I think it's better that those decisions are NOT taken by politicians.
I am not suggesting they are taken by politicians directly. But they should be directly part of the relevant department within Government rather than being farmed off so politicians can claim they are not responsible for decisions. NICE is a good example. They are already making political decisions based on available public funding rather than the actual effectiveness of drugs or treatments. If such decisions are to be made then they should be the responsibility of the elected politicians.
Politicians should set the parameters, but you don't want them involved in individual drug decisions. I think that's handled well by having NICE as an arms length body. People trust the independence of NICE, but the parameters they work within are set by government.
And which now appear to be driving our pharma industry overseas.
NICE was an excellent wheeze when we were still EU members, as access to the continental market masked the policy tradeoffs that we're now having to start considering.
It wasn't just the EMA that we lost with Brexit.
Is NICE decision making driving the pharma industry overseas? Isn't that more about the MHRA?
It's about the size of the UK drug market, and the fact that NICE won't fund many new treatments. That was less of an issue we were part of the single market.
The UK is simply less attractive now as a base for pharma.
There was also the general damage done to research collaborations involving Europe.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. (SNip)
How do journalists get into Gaza? I assume they need permission from the Israelis; I also guess they'd need permission from the Gazan authorities as well (i.e. Hamas). AIUI the BBC have no reporters in Gaza, because of Israeli restrictions, so have to rely on ones already in Gaza. Who I would guess might be rather pro-Palestinian...
(This is another way I think Israel is being stoopid.)
In fairness, I don't think they are.
a) No foreign journalists are allowed on the front line of Ukraine / Russia war. They let them in the first few weeks of the war have wider access, they got ambushed, shot at, etc, it was a shit show. Gaza is a very much a live warzone, where the front line is basically the whole of Gaza as it is tiny area.
b) Having hostages is huge leverage for Hamas. It would be the obvious thing to do is take Western journalists hostage. If that happened, Israel would get the blame for letting them go.
Remarkable how many people here fail to comprehend that Gaza is a war zone.
The amount of people who spread bullshit that its an "occupation" not a war zone, then react with outrage and indignation that the IDF might go into Gaza City.
Weird that they might have to fight to get into a city they supposedly already occupy. Almost as if its a war zone and not an occupation.
It's been a deliberate Israeli decision to refuse to occupy territory and instead have Gaza as a permanent war zone.
The only way to defeat Hamas would be by occupying Gaza and creating a replacement civil authority, but Israel have chosen permanent war instead.
It's been one of the most cynical acts in history.
You can tell they're getting desperate because literally any criticism is met with "you're a Hamas supporter". No attempt to justify it or explain anymore.
I can find some solace in the polling numbers which puts me squarely in a very large majority who think the Israeli government have gone too far. Barty, Blanche and the rest find themselves in a minority of 12% - don't let them make us feel like the weird ones.
They're more in favour of the current actions in Gaza than much of the Israeli population or even the IDF.
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
You're comparing your current fantasy world with your earlier fantasy world.
Without considering which of them people who live in this country might actually prefer.
Though perhaps one reason you might think there are fewer Europeans in Britain is that many of them have integrated and now speak English.
Not at all. It was a more transitory population. My ex lives the life of a hippy in Crete and lives with a revolving population. She loves it. She's never been happier. Different people turn up at different times and they live a great life. If success is your thing she's had that. If your thing is six pints of beer on a Saturday night then little in the UK will have changed.
The Spanish have a saying about 'The smell of the paint' which is just another way of describing 'the vibe' and to a lot of people it doesn't matter at all. Leon despite his tales of derring do is one of them. I don't think there's a more MOR person on here. He swoons over Taylor swift and thinks Sydney Sweeney is the most alluring person he's seen. That's fine. That's his taste. Take a look at his room featured on here often. Enough said! Not everyone is sensitive to what goes on around them or the styling of the place they live in and that's why some like you and Leon like Brexit and others like me don't
lol
You are a low watt minor-public-school retired tampon advertising executive who lives in a neo fascist enclave surrounded by Russian noovs
You are, without question, the most vulgar person on here
I don't think Roger has ever sunk to vulgarly displaying pics of his garish soft furnishings, but chacun à son goût.
When we post waspish put downs accusing others of vulgarity, perhaps we could avoid splitting the infinitive.
When we waspishly accuse others of splitting an infinitive, we should make sure there is an infinitive to split.
(Hint: infinitives don't end with -ing and "to" is an adverbial particle belonging with "sink". Sunk isn't an infinitive either)
Lucky is a pedant in training. Cut him a little slack.
Thankfully I am cutting you a little slack, as the split infinitive was there, obvious, and acknowledged by the original poster, you utter pillock.
Maybe find out what an infinitive is before calling people names.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
Israeli soldier describes arbitrary killing of civilians in Gaza, https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-describes-arbitrary-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-13393422An Israeli reservist who served three tours of duty in Gaza has told Sky News in a rare on-camera interview that his unit was often ordered to shoot anyone entering areas soldiers defined as no-go zones, regardless of whether they posed a threat, a practice he says left civilians dead where they fell.
It is good to be reminded just how shite Tezzie was as PM.
But not as shite as Truss or Starmer
That’s a low bar. It’s scary to realise that May is the best of our last five Prime Ministers.
I think that's unfair (to three of the last five). Being PM is something that's complex enough to be hard to reduce to a simple one-dimensional good/bad index.
Boris Johnson, for example, was an instinctive liar and venal, which made him an unstoppable person to be PM, in a way that May was not. But in many ways he was better at the job of PM. He was able to delegate, which was important during the pandemic. He was able to inspire and lead.
I would say that he was much better at being PM than May, but that he had character defects that should have made it impossible for anyone to support him in becoming PM, while May was broadly speaking the reverse.
Sunak was a poor PM in many ways, but he did have at least one achievement to his name - the Windsor framework - which is one more than I can recall for May.
I would only put Truss as unequivocally below May in the rankings of the last five PMs.
What's the alternate UK government history had Cameron won the Brexit vote ?
It's hardly credible that it would have been worse.
if it had been 52/48 the other way It would be hard to see Cameron being totally off the hook. Leavers would be whingeing 10 years after the event. Cant see how our economic position would be that much better as Covid had a huge impact and all bets were off.. Our slow and gradual decline would keep gping under the EU much as it had in the previous twenty years.
I was asking about the alt government history. The economy is a separate, albeit linked issue.
On the latter score, we'd have had none of the costs of leaving the single market; we'd still have had institutions like the EMA in the UK; we might well have gained the Tesla factory at Germany's expense; the disruption to science and research collaborations wouldn't have happened.
The Boriswave wouldn't have happened.
And Putin's SMO would have been a little less likely.
No one is pretending it would have solved all our problems. But it's perfectly credible to argue they wouldn't have been as bad.
And the succession of idiot Tory PMs almost certainly would not have happened.
Nonsense you would have had the costs of staying in. The endless march of needless legislation.
We'd never have got the Tesla factory as the UK internal investment lot are pretty useless and anti-manufacturing. Thye have missed lots of opportunities.
The Putin statement is ludicrous the UK and Johnson stood up to Putin when the EU's prime concern was gas supplies, and to some extent still is.
On the other hand unlike earlier claims we were first in the queue for a US trade deal and may have it on better terms than the EU.
As for Covid you cant just skip over it it was a seismic event and from what Ive seen none of the other political leaders at home or abroad had an answer to it.
"1. Overhaul of the civil service: replacement of all key leadership positions alligned to political priorities of incoming government. 2. Judicial reform: reasserting parliamentary sovereignty over political judicial activism. 3. Abolition of key QUANGOs, Commisions, "Independent" Bodies that have eroded democratic accountability and led to bureaucratic power-grab over the last 30 years. Without these basics, the next government will, like so many before, be tied in knots by the 'system' and fail to deliver on the priorities of the British people."
So that is: 1. Remove anyone from the machinery of government who doesn't parrot whatever madness is government policy 2. Ensure that all trials deliver the result demanded on X 3. Abolish any arms length agency so that all decisions on all things are made by ministers
The Conservative Party is over. They've gone utterly mad.
The third one I can buy into completely. All Governmental power should be exercised within the electoral system (from Parish to Parliament). Not handed off to semi-independent organisations with their own agendas.
The first two are just batshit crazy by people who don't understand either the British system nor the (very different) American system they are trying to emulate.
You don't think that it's good that some decisions are depoliticised and handed over to an arms length body? When, for example, NICE reviews the evidence of whether a drug is effective, or the MHRA reviews whether a new hip implant is safe, I think it's better that those decisions are NOT taken by politicians.
I am not suggesting they are taken by politicians directly. But they should be directly part of the relevant department within Government rather than being farmed off so politicians can claim they are not responsible for decisions. NICE is a good example. They are already making political decisions based on available public funding rather than the actual effectiveness of drugs or treatments. If such decisions are to be made then they should be the responsibility of the elected politicians.
Politicians should set the parameters, but you don't want them involved in individual drug decisions. I think that's handled well by having NICE as an arms length body. People trust the independence of NICE, but the parameters they work within are set by government.
And which now appear to be driving our pharma industry overseas.
NICE was an excellent wheeze when we were still EU members, as access to the continental market masked the policy tradeoffs that we're now having to start considering.
It wasn't just the EMA that we lost with Brexit.
Is NICE decision making driving the pharma industry overseas? Isn't that more about the MHRA?
It's about the size of the UK drug market, and the fact that NICE won't fund many new treatments. That was less of an issue we were part of the single market.
The UK is simply less attractive now as a base for pharma.
There was also the general damage done to research collaborations involving Europe.
OK, so that's Brexit, not NICE.
Yes. I was saying we had a NICE thing going until Brexit.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
Israeli soldier describes arbitrary killing of civilians in Gaza, https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-describes-arbitrary-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-13393422An Israeli reservist who served three tours of duty in Gaza has told Sky News in a rare on-camera interview that his unit was often ordered to shoot anyone entering areas soldiers defined as no-go zones, regardless of whether they posed a threat, a practice he says left civilians dead where they fell.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
Israeli soldier describes arbitrary killing of civilians in Gaza, https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-describes-arbitrary-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-13393422An Israeli reservist who served three tours of duty in Gaza has told Sky News in a rare on-camera interview that his unit was often ordered to shoot anyone entering areas soldiers defined as no-go zones, regardless of whether they posed a threat, a practice he says left civilians dead where they fell.
The Israeli military added that "reports and complaints regarding the violation of international law by the IDF are transferred to the relevant authorities responsible for examining exceptional incidents that occurred during the war".
So, again, Israel is a state where its citizens and media have free speech and can criticise its own actions. They also have the rule of law and if people break the law it is investigated.
Meanwhile the actions alleged against Israel aren't investigated or prohibited by Hamas they're encouraged. And there is no Hamas equivalent of Haaretz holding them to account.
There is something more than faintly ridiculous about a homeowner being force to cough up £116000 13 years after felling a common lime tree on her own land, while nothing happens to a pub in Enfield that cut down an historic oak on land that didn't belong to them.
The difference is, of course, the familiar pattern where an otherwise law abiding person hires a nice lawyer and engages with the process.
Versus the kind of person who frequents the back pages of Private Eye - crimes aplenty, wheedling their way out of any serious punishment.
Also worth noting that, of the £116k, only £16k is a fine, whole £100k is the council's legal costs awarded against her.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
Quite disturbing, but sadly not startling.
And of course the Hamas apologists believe they're the moral ones filled with righteous indignation.
There’s a lot of ground between favouring Hamas at one end, and supporting Beelzebub Smotrich, at the other.
It is good to be reminded just how shite Tezzie was as PM.
But not as shite as Truss or Starmer
That’s a low bar. It’s scary to realise that May is the best of our last five Prime Ministers.
I think that's unfair (to three of the last five). Being PM is something that's complex enough to be hard to reduce to a simple one-dimensional good/bad index.
Boris Johnson, for example, was an instinctive liar and venal, which made him an unstoppable person to be PM, in a way that May was not. But in many ways he was better at the job of PM. He was able to delegate, which was important during the pandemic. He was able to inspire and lead.
I would say that he was much better at being PM than May, but that he had character defects that should have made it impossible for anyone to support him in becoming PM, while May was broadly speaking the reverse.
Sunak was a poor PM in many ways, but he did have at least one achievement to his name - the Windsor framework - which is one more than I can recall for May.
I would only put Truss as unequivocally below May in the rankings of the last five PMs.
What's the alternate UK government history had Cameron won the Brexit vote ?
It's hardly credible that it would have been worse.
if it had been 52/48 the other way It would be hard to see Cameron being totally off the hook. Leavers would be whingeing 10 years after the event. Cant see how our economic position would be that much better as Covid had a huge impact and all bets were off.. Our slow and gradual decline would keep gping under the EU much as it had in the previous twenty years.
I was asking about the alt government history. The economy is a separate, albeit linked issue.
On the latter score, we'd have had none of the costs of leaving the single market; we'd still have had institutions like the EMA in the UK; we might well have gained the Tesla factory at Germany's expense; the disruption to science and research collaborations wouldn't have happened.
The Boriswave wouldn't have happened.
And Putin's SMO would have been a little less likely.
No one is pretending it would have solved all our problems. But it's perfectly credible to argue they wouldn't have been as bad.
And the succession of idiot Tory PMs almost certainly would not have happened.
Nonsense you would have had the costs of staying in. The endless march of needless legislation.
We'd never have got the Tesla factory as the UK internal investment lot are pretty useless and anti-manufacturing. Thye have missed lots of opportunities.
The Putin statement is ludicrous the UK and Johnson stood up to Putin when the EU's prime concern was gas supplies, and to some extent still is.
On the other hand unlike earlier claims we were first in the queue for a US trade deal and may have it on better terms than the EU.
As for Covid you cant just skip over it it was a seismic event and from what Ive seen none of the other political leaders at home or abroad had an answer to it.
I see there's no persuading you to even think about what might have been different, as you're dogmatically attached to the idea of Brexit as the right thing.
It is good to be reminded just how shite Tezzie was as PM.
But not as shite as Truss or Starmer
That’s a low bar. It’s scary to realise that May is the best of our last five Prime Ministers.
I think that's unfair (to three of the last five). Being PM is something that's complex enough to be hard to reduce to a simple one-dimensional good/bad index.
Boris Johnson, for example, was an instinctive liar and venal, which made him an unstoppable person to be PM, in a way that May was not. But in many ways he was better at the job of PM. He was able to delegate, which was important during the pandemic. He was able to inspire and lead.
I would say that he was much better at being PM than May, but that he had character defects that should have made it impossible for anyone to support him in becoming PM, while May was broadly speaking the reverse.
Sunak was a poor PM in many ways, but he did have at least one achievement to his name - the Windsor framework - which is one more than I can recall for May.
I would only put Truss as unequivocally below May in the rankings of the last five PMs.
What's the alternate UK government history had Cameron won the Brexit vote ?
It's hardly credible that it would have been worse.
if it had been 52/48 the other way It would be hard to see Cameron being totally off the hook. Leavers would be whingeing 10 years after the event. Cant see how our economic position would be that much better as Covid had a huge impact and all bets were off.. Our slow and gradual decline would keep gping under the EU much as it had in the previous twenty years.
I was asking about the alt government history. The economy is a separate, albeit linked issue.
On the latter score, we'd have had none of the costs of leaving the single market; we'd still have had institutions like the EMA in the UK; we might well have gained the Tesla factory at Germany's expense; the disruption to science and research collaborations wouldn't have happened.
The Boriswave wouldn't have happened.
And Putin's SMO would have been a little less likely.
No one is pretending it would have solved all our problems. But it's perfectly credible to argue they wouldn't have been as bad.
And the succession of idiot Tory PMs almost certainly would not have happened.
Nonsense you would have had the costs of staying in. The endless march of needless legislation.
We'd never have got the Tesla factory as the UK internal investment lot are pretty useless and anti-manufacturing. Thye have missed lots of opportunities.
The Putin statement is ludicrous the UK and Johnson stood up to Putin when the EU's prime concern was gas supplies, and to some extent still is.
On the other hand unlike earlier claims we were first in the queue for a US trade deal and may have it on better terms than the EU.
As for Covid you cant just skip over it it was a seismic event and from what Ive seen none of the other political leaders at home or abroad had an answer to it.
I see there's no persuading you to even think about what might have been different, as you're dogmatically attached to the idea of Brexit as the right thing.
Whatevs.
LOL I take it you have run out of argument.
I could see a world where we were better off if things had gone differently but unlike you I cant see how there was any certainty in the time period just gone. Covid, Putin, Trump too many black swans at once.
However the basic premise that the same people doing the same things as they had in the last thirty years which have trashed the UK economy is a constant so I dont see how staying in had a guaranteed upside.
I see there are proposals that there be a retirement age for members of the House of Lords, and that there be a minimum level of attendance and participation or else they lose their seat.
Nice to the see the government finally listen to suggestions I've been making for year. All very sensible and reasonable for an unelected body.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
Israeli soldier describes arbitrary killing of civilians in Gaza, https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-describes-arbitrary-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-13393422An Israeli reservist who served three tours of duty in Gaza has told Sky News in a rare on-camera interview that his unit was often ordered to shoot anyone entering areas soldiers defined as no-go zones, regardless of whether they posed a threat, a practice he says left civilians dead where they fell.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
Israeli soldier describes arbitrary killing of civilians in Gaza, https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-describes-arbitrary-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-13393422An Israeli reservist who served three tours of duty in Gaza has told Sky News in a rare on-camera interview that his unit was often ordered to shoot anyone entering areas soldiers defined as no-go zones, regardless of whether they posed a threat, a practice he says left civilians dead where they fell.
Can you send me that link to the story from the independent Gazan journalist criticising the actions of Hamas?
It's perfectly possible to believe that (a) Hamas are evil, and (b) some of the actions of the IDF (and the Netanyahu regime) have crossed the line.
It would be rather difficult for a sane and intelligent person not to believe both (and indeed, that 'crossing the line' is rather a mild form of expression for Netanyahu's crimes).
I mean, I realise the likes of Sultana and a certain French resident don't believe (a), but then they don't meet my criteria anyway.
French PM Bayrou has just announced he will ask for a confidence vote from the National Assembly on 8 September. What a gamble. His way to defuse the 10 September « insurrection day » called by both Far Right and Far Left? Bonne chance. #France
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
Israeli soldier describes arbitrary killing of civilians in Gaza, https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-describes-arbitrary-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-13393422An Israeli reservist who served three tours of duty in Gaza has told Sky News in a rare on-camera interview that his unit was often ordered to shoot anyone entering areas soldiers defined as no-go zones, regardless of whether they posed a threat, a practice he says left civilians dead where they fell.
The Israeli military added that "reports and complaints regarding the violation of international law by the IDF are transferred to the relevant authorities responsible for examining exceptional incidents that occurred during the war".
So, again, Israel is a state where its citizens and media have free speech and can criticise its own actions. They also have the rule of law and if people break the law it is investigated.
Meanwhile the actions alleged against Israel aren't investigated or prohibited by Hamas they're encouraged. And there is no Hamas equivalent of Haaretz holding them to account.
Nothing changes with you , Barty. You dance on the head of a pin justifying appalling atrocities by idf soldiers by saying they are "investigated". They may be, but nothing comes of it and they carry on doing it. Do we really have to wait until 6 million Palestinians die before you entertain the fact that IDF may be a murderous gang of thugs?
Grown ups are going to vote for her party? She was making these kind of tweets 10+ years ago as a child about Blair.
Growns ups will indeed. Many like that kind of tone, others just dislike the same people enough not to mind it. Used to be that mostly party hacks enjoyed this kind of thing, but recent years seem to suggest the wider public do too.
I think it is just performative nonsense (though to be fair politics is about performativeness to a degree), but in the present circumstances I can see a lot of people saying they will vote for her party, even if somewhat fewer then vote for it - even knowing a lot of people like Corbyn, a guy who will be 80 at the next election is not going to cut it as a PM candidate, and Sultana is still mostly unknown.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
Israeli soldier describes arbitrary killing of civilians in Gaza, https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-describes-arbitrary-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-13393422An Israeli reservist who served three tours of duty in Gaza has told Sky News in a rare on-camera interview that his unit was often ordered to shoot anyone entering areas soldiers defined as no-go zones, regardless of whether they posed a threat, a practice he says left civilians dead where they fell.
Can you send me that link to the story from the independent Gazan journalist criticising the actions of Hamas?
It's perfectly possible to believe that (a) Hamas are evil, and (b) some of the actions of the IDF (and the Netanyahu regime) have crossed the line.
Quite. I think in the immediate aftermath of the October attacks there was a shameful level of acting as though any reaction would be unreasonable, and antisemitic motivated actions like tearing down posters of captives, but whilst it's impossible to put oneself fully into Israeli shoes, and the very real risks they face as a nation every day if they are not strong enough, it doesn't mean everything the IDF or Israeli government do can be accepted without question.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
Israeli soldier describes arbitrary killing of civilians in Gaza, https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-describes-arbitrary-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-13393422An Israeli reservist who served three tours of duty in Gaza has told Sky News in a rare on-camera interview that his unit was often ordered to shoot anyone entering areas soldiers defined as no-go zones, regardless of whether they posed a threat, a practice he says left civilians dead where they fell.
Labour vote soars by incalculable amounts as it reached 2% in new poll of farmers.
Genuinely surprised the LDs are so low there. I guess whilst they suck up to countryside NIMBYs even more than everyone else does, that does not appeal to the farmers as much.
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
Ah, Europe, the continent where there are no ugly young people, just attractive ones, so many in fact that they could send tens of thousands over to work in the UK and display their beauty. And shame on the rest of the world for not supplying us with attractive guest workers to perv over.
This country.
It's the vibe that's changed. That you aren't able to feel it dioesn't surprise me at all.
In your mindset certainly but more generally I very much doubt it
You can compare us to your southern France utopia but frankly it has as many problems as the rest of us
Roger literally lives in a corner of France - Villefranche-sur-Mer - which is so far right it elected a Len Pen person on the first round at the French elex
All his lovely neighbours in that lovely place are neo-fash
He’s a ludicrous dummy who went to Millfield. The school for people to stupid to go to a comprehensive. Ignore
Perhaps that’s why his corner of France is so nice to live in - it’s mainly populated by RN supporters and pieds noirs.
France is paradoxical as always
In Britain we associate the hard or far right with unlovely and downtrodden towns, cities, regions. This is probably true of most western countries
However in France it is quite often the nicest and richest corners that are far right. Like villefranche sur mer where roger chooses to live
Last year I went to the source of le penisme, south Brittany near Carnac where the le pens have their compound. It’s very pleasant. Much nicer than inland Brittany (which can be seriously bleak)
My theory is that the rich far right French and Roger are voting le pen to PRESERVE what they have
I also think this is beginning to happen in the UK. See my posh Notting Hill friends switching to Reform
Supporting the far right is more respectable in France than in other countries. Checking the result in 2024, I see indeed that the RN MP won 56% on the first round in this constituency . Overall, RN hold 5 out of 9 seats in Alpes-Maritimes.
In recent years, FN/RN have expanded into bleak towns in the North East that used to vote Communist.
What does far-right actually mean these days?
I've seen Farage called it, Le Pen, and Meloni.
None have come close to initiating brutal wars of conquest that abrogate the laws of war, glorifying death and violence, started genocides or militarised their whole societies, whilst totally suspending democracy, so far as I can tell.
Labour vote soars by incalculable amounts as it reached 2% in new poll of farmers.
Genuinely surprised the LDs are so low there. I guess whilst they suck up to countryside NIMBYs even more than everyone else does, that does not appeal to the farmers as much.
Farmers seem to have Stockholm Syndrome. They can’t get enough of the two parties that delivered the sell out trade deals and the party led by Mr Brexit .
Fracking is culture war stuff, Reform have an annoying habit of trying to copy/emulate everything Trump does in the belief it's the key to electoral success here - whilst making themselves look nutjobs in the process. We almost certainly shouldn't be doing it, for both environmental and economic reasons, and it will be very unpopular.
However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
Israeli soldier describes arbitrary killing of civilians in Gaza, https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-describes-arbitrary-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-13393422An Israeli reservist who served three tours of duty in Gaza has told Sky News in a rare on-camera interview that his unit was often ordered to shoot anyone entering areas soldiers defined as no-go zones, regardless of whether they posed a threat, a practice he says left civilians dead where they fell.
Roger you need to look at it with both eyes. Consider what Hamas is doing. I support neither side bar the right to defend
I've always admired Roger. I couldn't be that consistently wrong about everything, all the time, even if I tried.
Think about it: even through sheer random chance, Roger ought to be occasionally right about something at sometimes purely due to the law of averages and basic statistical anomalies. And, yet, he isn't - ever.
It's a remarkable piece of performance art. In fact, I'm rather jealous.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
Israeli soldier describes arbitrary killing of civilians in Gaza, https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-describes-arbitrary-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-13393422An Israeli reservist who served three tours of duty in Gaza has told Sky News in a rare on-camera interview that his unit was often ordered to shoot anyone entering areas soldiers defined as no-go zones, regardless of whether they posed a threat, a practice he says left civilians dead where they fell.
The Israeli military added that "reports and complaints regarding the violation of international law by the IDF are transferred to the relevant authorities responsible for examining exceptional incidents that occurred during the war".
So, again, Israel is a state where its citizens and media have free speech and can criticise its own actions. They also have the rule of law and if people break the law it is investigated.
Meanwhile the actions alleged against Israel aren't investigated or prohibited by Hamas they're encouraged. And there is no Hamas equivalent of Haaretz holding them to account.
Oh, so the Israeli military say that the Israeli military are doing everything OK. That's fine, then.
Fracking is culture war stuff, Reform have an annoying habit of trying to copy/emulate everything Trump does in the belief it's the key to electoral success here - whilst making themselves look nutjobs in the process. We almost certainly shouldn't be doing it, for both environmental and economic reasons, and it will be very unpopular.
However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.
It's the backlash to the lash.
I'm not particularly fussed about fracking if it were adopted, but there has been a tendency since Trump's victory to act like lessons of american politics will directly translate over here, which isn't true for left or right, not completely.
You see this as well with certain sections of the right who get huffily offended about politicians saying something past or present which was critical of Trump, as though the need to work with him as President means no-one should be able to do so pragmatically rather than enthusiastically.
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
Ah, Europe, the continent where there are no ugly young people, just attractive ones, so many in fact that they could send tens of thousands over to work in the UK and display their beauty. And shame on the rest of the world for not supplying us with attractive guest workers to perv over.
This country.
It's the vibe that's changed. That you aren't able to feel it dioesn't surprise me at all.
In your mindset certainly but more generally I very much doubt it
You can compare us to your southern France utopia but frankly it has as many problems as the rest of us
Roger literally lives in a corner of France - Villefranche-sur-Mer - which is so far right it elected a Len Pen person on the first round at the French elex
All his lovely neighbours in that lovely place are neo-fash
He’s a ludicrous dummy who went to Millfield. The school for people to stupid to go to a comprehensive. Ignore
Perhaps that’s why his corner of France is so nice to live in - it’s mainly populated by RN supporters and pieds noirs.
France is paradoxical as always
In Britain we associate the hard or far right with unlovely and downtrodden towns, cities, regions. This is probably true of most western countries
However in France it is quite often the nicest and richest corners that are far right. Like villefranche sur mer where roger chooses to live
Last year I went to the source of le penisme, south Brittany near Carnac where the le pens have their compound. It’s very pleasant. Much nicer than inland Brittany (which can be seriously bleak)
My theory is that the rich far right French and Roger are voting le pen to PRESERVE what they have
I also think this is beginning to happen in the UK. See my posh Notting Hill friends switching to Reform
Supporting the far right is more respectable in France than in other countries. Checking the result in 2024, I see indeed that the RN MP won 56% on the first round in this constituency . Overall, RN hold 5 out of 9 seats in Alpes-Maritimes.
In recent years, FN/RN have expanded into bleak towns in the North East that used to vote Communist.
What does far-right actually mean these days?
I've seen Farage called it, Le Pen, and Meloni.
None have come close to initiating brutal wars of conquest that abrogate the laws of war, glorifying death and violence, started genocides or militarised their whole societies, whilst totally suspending democracy, so far as I can tell.
I would guess it’s to be socially conservative, anti-immigration, small c conservative and believe in industrial/national protectionism in its widest range.
I think Farage would probably be part of the more fiscally liberal coalition.
To some people anyone who has right of centre views they don’t like is far-right which doesn’t help political discourse. Like saying everyone left of centre is socialist. Racism and intolerance have their bailiwick in the extreme reaches of the far right as socialism has its own dark heart.
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
Ah, Europe, the continent where there are no ugly young people, just attractive ones, so many in fact that they could send tens of thousands over to work in the UK and display their beauty. And shame on the rest of the world for not supplying us with attractive guest workers to perv over.
This country.
It's the vibe that's changed. That you aren't able to feel it dioesn't surprise me at all.
In your mindset certainly but more generally I very much doubt it
You can compare us to your southern France utopia but frankly it has as many problems as the rest of us
Roger literally lives in a corner of France - Villefranche-sur-Mer - which is so far right it elected a Len Pen person on the first round at the French elex
All his lovely neighbours in that lovely place are neo-fash
He’s a ludicrous dummy who went to Millfield. The school for people to stupid to go to a comprehensive. Ignore
Perhaps that’s why his corner of France is so nice to live in - it’s mainly populated by RN supporters and pieds noirs.
France is paradoxical as always
In Britain we associate the hard or far right with unlovely and downtrodden towns, cities, regions. This is probably true of most western countries
However in France it is quite often the nicest and richest corners that are far right. Like villefranche sur mer where roger chooses to live
Last year I went to the source of le penisme, south Brittany near Carnac where the le pens have their compound. It’s very pleasant. Much nicer than inland Brittany (which can be seriously bleak)
My theory is that the rich far right French and Roger are voting le pen to PRESERVE what they have
I also think this is beginning to happen in the UK. See my posh Notting Hill friends switching to Reform
Supporting the far right is more respectable in France than in other countries. Checking the result in 2024, I see indeed that the RN MP won 56% on the first round in this constituency . Overall, RN hold 5 out of 9 seats in Alpes-Maritimes.
In recent years, FN/RN have expanded into bleak towns in the North East that used to vote Communist.
What does far-right actually mean these days?
I've seen Farage called it, Le Pen, and Meloni.
None have come close to initiating brutal wars of conquest that abrogate the laws of war, glorifying death and violence, started genocides or militarised their whole societies, whilst totally suspending democracy, so far as I can tell.
I think far right encompasses wanting the mass deportation of immigrants and the children of immigrants to be given fewer rights. There's a couple of regulars here who espouse such views.
Fracking is culture war stuff, Reform have an annoying habit of trying to copy/emulate everything Trump does in the belief it's the key to electoral success here - whilst making themselves look nutjobs in the process. We almost certainly shouldn't be doing it, for both environmental and economic reasons, and it will be very unpopular.
However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.
It's the backlash to the lash.
I'm right in the middle of that crowd and while you get a small minority with views like that, most people are pretty pragmatic about what path we should take. A lot of the culture war stuff is projection from the right.
E.g. "car bans" = LTNs and pedestrianisation, both of which have been uncontroversial topics advocated for by both parties for several decades. I've never had a vegan make much of a fuss about their diet other than a polite request, but have certainly come across carnivores driven close to madness by their very existence.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
Israeli soldier describes arbitrary killing of civilians in Gaza, https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-describes-arbitrary-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-13393422An Israeli reservist who served three tours of duty in Gaza has told Sky News in a rare on-camera interview that his unit was often ordered to shoot anyone entering areas soldiers defined as no-go zones, regardless of whether they posed a threat, a practice he says left civilians dead where they fell.
Can you send me that link to the story from the independent Gazan journalist criticising the actions of Hamas?
The evils of Hamas do not give the Israeli state carte blanche to do anything.
I've been casting doubt on the integrity of Gazan journalists, and criticising those who uncritically lap up that Hamas propaganda and use it to demonise Israelis
That's not quite the same as giving Israel carte blanche
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
Israeli soldier describes arbitrary killing of civilians in Gaza, https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-describes-arbitrary-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-13393422An Israeli reservist who served three tours of duty in Gaza has told Sky News in a rare on-camera interview that his unit was often ordered to shoot anyone entering areas soldiers defined as no-go zones, regardless of whether they posed a threat, a practice he says left civilians dead where they fell.
Can you send me that link to the story from the independent Gazan journalist criticising the actions of Hamas?
It's perfectly possible to believe that (a) Hamas are evil, and (b) some of the actions of the IDF (and the Netanyahu regime) have crossed the line.
It would be rather difficult for a sane and intelligent person not to believe both (and indeed, that 'crossing the line' is rather a mild form of expression for Netanyahu's crimes).
I mean, I realise the likes of Sultana and a certain French resident don't believe (a), but then they don't meet my criteria anyway.
There are two members of Netanyahu's cabinet who are openly genocidal. It's entirely appropriate to accuse Hamas of genocidal intentions, but more than a little odd to ignore the same thing in Israel's current government.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
Israeli soldier describes arbitrary killing of civilians in Gaza, https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-describes-arbitrary-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-13393422An Israeli reservist who served three tours of duty in Gaza has told Sky News in a rare on-camera interview that his unit was often ordered to shoot anyone entering areas soldiers defined as no-go zones, regardless of whether they posed a threat, a practice he says left civilians dead where they fell.
Can you send me that link to the story from the independent Gazan journalist criticising the actions of Hamas?
The evils of Hamas do not give the Israeli state carte blanche to do anything.
I've been casting doubt on the integrity of Gazan journalists, and criticising those who uncritically lap up that Hamas propaganda and use it to demonise Israelis
That's not quite the same as giving Israel carte blanche
Roger you need to look at it with both eyes. Consider what Hamas is doing. I support neither side bar the right to defend
I've always admired Roger. I couldn't be that consistently wrong about everything, all the time, even if I tried.
Think about it: even through sheer random chance, Roger ought to be occasionally right about something at sometimes purely due to the law of averages and basic statistical anomalies. And, yet, he isn't - ever.
It's a remarkable piece of performance art. In fact, I'm rather jealous.
He's correctly called the Oscars winners on several occasions.
I see there are proposals that there be a retirement age for members of the House of Lords, and that there be a minimum level of attendance and participation or else they lose their seat.
Nice to the see the government finally listen to suggestions I've been making for year. All very sensible and reasonable for an unelected body.
I don't think retirement ages are a good idea. The Lords slow down change and act as a brake. That's broadly its function. They can't do that with retirement ages. I'd be OK with term limits tho. (10yrs? 20yrs?)
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
Israeli soldier describes arbitrary killing of civilians in Gaza, https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-describes-arbitrary-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-13393422An Israeli reservist who served three tours of duty in Gaza has told Sky News in a rare on-camera interview that his unit was often ordered to shoot anyone entering areas soldiers defined as no-go zones, regardless of whether they posed a threat, a practice he says left civilians dead where they fell.
Can you send me that link to the story from the independent Gazan journalist criticising the actions of Hamas?
The evils of Hamas do not give the Israeli state carte blanche to do anything.
I've been casting doubt on the integrity of Gazan journalists, and criticising those who uncritically lap up that Hamas propaganda and use it to demonise Israelis
That's not quite the same as giving Israel carte blanche
It is if you just dismiss all reports of Israeli atrocities as Hamas propaganda.
I see there are proposals that there be a retirement age for members of the House of Lords, and that there be a minimum level of attendance and participation or else they lose their seat.
Nice to the see the government finally listen to suggestions I've been making for year. All very sensible and reasonable for an unelected body.
I don't think retirement ages are a good idea. The Lords slow down change and act as a brake. That's broadly its function. They can't do that with retirement ages. I'd be OK with term limits tho. (10yrs? 20yrs?)
I'd be fine with something time limited. But in the meantime I'd support retirement ages, as a means of lowering the number in a way which does not target any particular party, until we get to a manageable size again. Combined with retiring those who don't participate it should get it down to 500 in good time.
If we get to the point of an elected Lords people will be free to elect any older people they want in any case.
Labour vote soars by incalculable amounts as it reached 2% in new poll of farmers.
Genuinely surprised the LDs are so low there. I guess whilst they suck up to countryside NIMBYs even more than everyone else does, that does not appeal to the farmers as much.
Farmers seem to have Stockholm Syndrome. They can’t get enough of the two parties that delivered the sell out trade deals and the party led by Mr Brexit .
There were a few farmers who voted LD they are now the core of the Reform farmers, maybe more easily taken in than the rest. I don't think you will find many farmers who don't think joining the Common Market was the gravest disaster for the industry in the last hundred years. But, we are very much beholden to the qualities of the MAFF Minister, at the moment Defra secretary. We have had good like Peter Walker, Jack Cuningham, Nick Brown. Excellent like John Gummer, Michael Jopling, mediocre like Michael Gove, hopeless like Liz Truss. But the present one Steve Reed is like his master the first who is truly evil.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
I don’t want to make assumptions about your antecedents, but do the IDF take gentile foreign volunteers? Perhaps time for another empty gesture?
The IDF seem to be doing quite well at grinding down Hamas by themselves.
They should just keep up the good work until there are zero Hamas supporters left alive, or they surrender unconditionally.
Just as we did with WWII with both Germany and Japan.
I believe the IDF is suffering from battle fatigue and trauma from all those double tapped kids and bulldozed women. Is there an historical parallel whereby a nation saved their brave soldiers from the disgusting but necessary task of personally slaughtering women and kids by thinking up a more clinical method of dispatch, a final solution if you will?
Why do you doubt the humanity of the IDF?
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
Israeli soldier describes arbitrary killing of civilians in Gaza, https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-describes-arbitrary-killing-of-civilians-in-gaza-13393422An Israeli reservist who served three tours of duty in Gaza has told Sky News in a rare on-camera interview that his unit was often ordered to shoot anyone entering areas soldiers defined as no-go zones, regardless of whether they posed a threat, a practice he says left civilians dead where they fell.
Can you send me that link to the story from the independent Gazan journalist criticising the actions of Hamas?
The evils of Hamas do not give the Israeli state carte blanche to do anything.
I've been casting doubt on the integrity of Gazan journalists, and criticising those who uncritically lap up that Hamas propaganda and use it to demonise Israelis
That's not quite the same as giving Israel carte blanche
The Israelis do not need Hamas to demonise them. They are perfectly capable of doing it by themselves.
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
You're comparing your current fantasy world with your earlier fantasy world.
Without considering which of them people who live in this country might actually prefer.
Though perhaps one reason you might think there are fewer Europeans in Britain is that many of them have integrated and now speak English.
Not at all. It was a more transitory population. My ex lives the life of a hippy in Crete and lives with a revolving population. She loves it. She's never been happier. Different people turn up at different times and they live a great life. If success is your thing she's had that. If your thing is six pints of beer on a Saturday night then little in the UK will have changed.
The Spanish have a saying about 'The smell of the paint' which is just another way of describing 'the vibe' and to a lot of people it doesn't matter at all. Leon despite his tales of derring do is one of them. I don't think there's a more MOR person on here. He swoons over Taylor swift and thinks Sydney Sweeney is the most alluring person he's seen. That's fine. That's his taste. Take a look at his room featured on here often. Enough said! Not everyone is sensitive to what goes on around them or the styling of the place they live in and that's why some like you and Leon like Brexit and others like me don't
lol
You are a low watt minor-public-school retired tampon advertising executive who lives in a neo fascist enclave surrounded by Russian noovs
You are, without question, the most vulgar person on here
I don't think Roger has ever sunk to vulgarly displaying pics of his garish soft furnishings, but chacun à son goût.
When we post waspish put downs accusing others of vulgarity, perhaps we could avoid splitting the infinitive.
When we waspishly accuse others of splitting an infinitive, we should make sure there is an infinitive to split.
(Hint: infinitives don't end with -ing and "to" is an adverbial particle belonging with "sink". Sunk isn't an infinitive either)
Lucky is a pedant in training. Cut him a little slack.
Thankfully I am cutting you a little slack, as the split infinitive was there, obvious, and acknowledged by the original poster, you utter pillock.
Nope, there's no infinitive, split or otherwise. Sunk is a past participle and displaying is a present participle or a gerund. What do you think is an infinitive? The verb is to sink to, a bit like to get up, or to fuck off. It's more like a German separable verb.
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
Ah, Europe, the continent where there are no ugly young people, just attractive ones, so many in fact that they could send tens of thousands over to work in the UK and display their beauty. And shame on the rest of the world for not supplying us with attractive guest workers to perv over.
This country.
It's the vibe that's changed. That you aren't able to feel it dioesn't surprise me at all.
In your mindset certainly but more generally I very much doubt it
You can compare us to your southern France utopia but frankly it has as many problems as the rest of us
Roger literally lives in a corner of France - Villefranche-sur-Mer - which is so far right it elected a Len Pen person on the first round at the French elex
All his lovely neighbours in that lovely place are neo-fash
He’s a ludicrous dummy who went to Millfield. The school for people to stupid to go to a comprehensive. Ignore
Perhaps that’s why his corner of France is so nice to live in - it’s mainly populated by RN supporters and pieds noirs.
France is paradoxical as always
In Britain we associate the hard or far right with unlovely and downtrodden towns, cities, regions. This is probably true of most western countries
However in France it is quite often the nicest and richest corners that are far right. Like villefranche sur mer where roger chooses to live
Last year I went to the source of le penisme, south Brittany near Carnac where the le pens have their compound. It’s very pleasant. Much nicer than inland Brittany (which can be seriously bleak)
My theory is that the rich far right French and Roger are voting le pen to PRESERVE what they have
I also think this is beginning to happen in the UK. See my posh Notting Hill friends switching to Reform
Supporting the far right is more respectable in France than in other countries. Checking the result in 2024, I see indeed that the RN MP won 56% on the first round in this constituency . Overall, RN hold 5 out of 9 seats in Alpes-Maritimes.
In recent years, FN/RN have expanded into bleak towns in the North East that used to vote Communist.
What does far-right actually mean these days?
I've seen Farage called it, Le Pen, and Meloni.
None have come close to initiating brutal wars of conquest that abrogate the laws of war, glorifying death and violence, started genocides or militarised their whole societies, whilst totally suspending democracy, so far as I can tell.
I think far right encompasses wanting the mass deportation of immigrants and the children of immigrants to be given fewer rights. There's a couple of regulars here who espouse such views.
Western societies are being polluted and risk being taken over by alien cultures (esp Islam) is a Far Right totem, I'd say. You can believe this and not be Far Right, or you can be Far Right and not believe it, but I doubt there'd be many in either category.
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
Ah, Europe, the continent where there are no ugly young people, just attractive ones, so many in fact that they could send tens of thousands over to work in the UK and display their beauty. And shame on the rest of the world for not supplying us with attractive guest workers to perv over.
This country.
It's the vibe that's changed. That you aren't able to feel it dioesn't surprise me at all.
In your mindset certainly but more generally I very much doubt it
You can compare us to your southern France utopia but frankly it has as many problems as the rest of us
Roger literally lives in a corner of France - Villefranche-sur-Mer - which is so far right it elected a Len Pen person on the first round at the French elex
All his lovely neighbours in that lovely place are neo-fash
He’s a ludicrous dummy who went to Millfield. The school for people to stupid to go to a comprehensive. Ignore
Perhaps that’s why his corner of France is so nice to live in - it’s mainly populated by RN supporters and pieds noirs.
France is paradoxical as always
In Britain we associate the hard or far right with unlovely and downtrodden towns, cities, regions. This is probably true of most western countries
However in France it is quite often the nicest and richest corners that are far right. Like villefranche sur mer where roger chooses to live
Last year I went to the source of le penisme, south Brittany near Carnac where the le pens have their compound. It’s very pleasant. Much nicer than inland Brittany (which can be seriously bleak)
My theory is that the rich far right French and Roger are voting le pen to PRESERVE what they have
I also think this is beginning to happen in the UK. See my posh Notting Hill friends switching to Reform
Supporting the far right is more respectable in France than in other countries. Checking the result in 2024, I see indeed that the RN MP won 56% on the first round in this constituency . Overall, RN hold 5 out of 9 seats in Alpes-Maritimes.
In recent years, FN/RN have expanded into bleak towns in the North East that used to vote Communist.
What does far-right actually mean these days?
I've seen Farage called it, Le Pen, and Meloni.
None have come close to initiating brutal wars of conquest that abrogate the laws of war, glorifying death and violence, started genocides or militarised their whole societies, whilst totally suspending democracy, so far as I can tell.
I think far right encompasses wanting the mass deportation of immigrants and the children of immigrants to be given fewer rights. There's a couple of regulars here who espouse such views.
Western societies are being polluted and risk being taken over by alien cultures (esp Islam) is a Far Right totem, I'd say. You can believe this and not be Far Right, or you can be Far Right and not believe it, but I doubt there'd be many in either category.
We literally have a de facto blasphemy law, enforced by the threat of death, because we have imported Islamic beliefs
Go ask the teacher in hiding in Batley
You simply deny this is happening. You lie - probably to yourself as well as the world. And then you can pretend that anyone who points this is “far right”
Roger you need to look at it with both eyes. Consider what Hamas is doing. I support neither side bar the right to defend
I've always admired Roger. I couldn't be that consistently wrong about everything, all the time, even if I tried.
Think about it: even through sheer random chance, Roger ought to be occasionally right about something at sometimes purely due to the law of averages and basic statistical anomalies. And, yet, he isn't - ever.
It's a remarkable piece of performance art. In fact, I'm rather jealous.
But he didn't vote Leave. So he beats you hands down for judgement.
The idea that Hamas would detain foreign journalists is nonsense . It’s in their best interests to elicit sympathy from the west , holding journalists would do the opposite. The IDF Netenyahu apologists are defenders of genocide. The biggest recruiting sergeant for anti semitism are the actions of the IDF and Netenyahu.
The level of Hamas advocacy on here is quite startling and disturbing
Quite disturbing, but sadly not startling.
And of course the Hamas apologists believe they're the moral ones filled with righteous indignation.
There’s a lot of ground between favouring Hamas at one end, and supporting Beelzebub Smotrich, at the other.
It rather reminds me of the Yugoslav Wars of the 90s. The Utter Bastards are whoever is winning at any one point. The moment the victims got a bit of an edge…
Labour vote soars by incalculable amounts as it reached 2% in new poll of farmers.
Genuinely surprised the LDs are so low there. I guess whilst they suck up to countryside NIMBYs even more than everyone else does, that does not appeal to the farmers as much.
Farmers seem to have Stockholm Syndrome. They can’t get enough of the two parties that delivered the sell out trade deals and the party led by Mr Brexit .
Also opportunities to send more of their produce abroad too.
However clearly Labour taking large chunks of their land value in tax is unforgiveable, I doubt Labour will win a single rural seat next time. Certainly Labour haven't won a single ward in a rural council by election this year nor did they win any rural wards in the county elections in May
Labour vote soars by incalculable amounts as it reached 2% in new poll of farmers.
Genuinely surprised the LDs are so low there. I guess whilst they suck up to countryside NIMBYs even more than everyone else does, that does not appeal to the farmers as much.
12% of farmers voted LD at the last general election apparently, they have not fallen anywhere near as far as Labour.
It’s hard to overstate what a disaster Boris Johnson turned out to be. It’s likely none of the present tensions would be happening in the UK if he hadn’t done this. The worst thing is, I couldn’t tell you if he did it on purpose or by accident. Either is quite possible.
At the time I remember plenty of Brexiteers saying things like "it's not about the numbers, it's about control" and claiming that immigration from the Commonwealth would be less unpopular with the sort of people who don't like immigration than immigration from the EU. I have to say that both arguments seemed implausible at the time.
With the odd exception, I don't think immigration from the commonwealth is a problem. Immigration from India is very visible in my part of the world, but it isn't really a problem: these are by and large skilled immigrants whom Britain has sought and who integrate easily. The problem is illegals and dubious asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa.
It's the Euroopeans who have disappeared that I miss the most. You could go round towns and cities all over the UK and it was full of young attractive people speaking a multitude of languages. It's like that in the Sounth of France everywhere and it used to be like that in England. It's difficult to realise how it's changed over the last nine or ten years
Ah, Europe, the continent where there are no ugly young people, just attractive ones, so many in fact that they could send tens of thousands over to work in the UK and display their beauty. And shame on the rest of the world for not supplying us with attractive guest workers to perv over.
This country.
It's the vibe that's changed. That you aren't able to feel it dioesn't surprise me at all.
In your mindset certainly but more generally I very much doubt it
You can compare us to your southern France utopia but frankly it has as many problems as the rest of us
Roger literally lives in a corner of France - Villefranche-sur-Mer - which is so far right it elected a Len Pen person on the first round at the French elex
All his lovely neighbours in that lovely place are neo-fash
He’s a ludicrous dummy who went to Millfield. The school for people to stupid to go to a comprehensive. Ignore
Perhaps that’s why his corner of France is so nice to live in - it’s mainly populated by RN supporters and pieds noirs.
France is paradoxical as always
In Britain we associate the hard or far right with unlovely and downtrodden towns, cities, regions. This is probably true of most western countries
However in France it is quite often the nicest and richest corners that are far right. Like villefranche sur mer where roger chooses to live
Last year I went to the source of le penisme, south Brittany near Carnac where the le pens have their compound. It’s very pleasant. Much nicer than inland Brittany (which can be seriously bleak)
My theory is that the rich far right French and Roger are voting le pen to PRESERVE what they have
I also think this is beginning to happen in the UK. See my posh Notting Hill friends switching to Reform
Supporting the far right is more respectable in France than in other countries. Checking the result in 2024, I see indeed that the RN MP won 56% on the first round in this constituency . Overall, RN hold 5 out of 9 seats in Alpes-Maritimes.
In recent years, FN/RN have expanded into bleak towns in the North East that used to vote Communist.
What does far-right actually mean these days?
I've seen Farage called it, Le Pen, and Meloni.
None have come close to initiating brutal wars of conquest that abrogate the laws of war, glorifying death and violence, started genocides or militarised their whole societies, whilst totally suspending democracy, so far as I can tell.
I would guess it’s to be socially conservative, anti-immigration, small c conservative and believe in industrial/national protectionism in its widest range.
I think Farage would probably be part of the more fiscally liberal coalition.
To some people anyone who has right of centre views they don’t like is far-right which doesn’t help political discourse. Like saying everyone left of centre is socialist. Racism and intolerance have their bailiwick in the extreme reaches of the far right as socialism has its own dark heart.
That's too wide imo. Racism is the USP of the Far Right. I would never apply the term to anybody who I don't consider seriously racist. They can as socially conservative as they like, anti abortion, death penalty for littering, bring back national service, whatever, but without the racism they're falling short in my book.
'Afternoon pb. I've had an amazingly busy bank holiday weekend. I have any amount of anecdata to regale you with, but I can't actually be bothered - just rest assured it backs up whatever conclusions about the UK you had already reached. But more excitingly, I have: - been to a wedding (though only the night time - I didn't know them that well) - been to the tip - been to a match in the rugby world cup - met/fed/stroked a capybara (two capybaras, in fact.) - discovered an awesome new animal (the binturong - look him up - he's ace: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binturong (when I say 'discovered', I'm talking in a purely personal sense - other humans already knew about him) - flown a kite - won a toy seagull in a game of skill (darts) - been involved in a family drama about a lost bracelet, thrillingly resolved after an hour with the use of a big stick - watched a glorious sunset with my daughters - erected a tent - hosted a children's party (at which, impressively, someone is playing 'Never Gonna Give You Up' on the kazoo, quite well).
Comments
The legal process is ruinously expensive.
if it had been 52/48 the other way It would be hard to see Cameron being totally off the hook. Leavers would be whingeing 10 years after the event. Cant see how our economic position would be that much better as Covid had a huge impact and all bets were off.. Our slow and gradual decline would keep gping under the EU much as it had in the previous twenty years.
Some good local reporting on more Reform chaos.
There's a steady stream of such reports from local government, as well as stories like the Reform councillor who threatened to kill his wife. Will they make any difference to the polling? Presumably not as it is those who engage least with the news and rely most on social media algorithms who tend to be Reform supporting.
Three Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by soldiers in Gaza on Friday had used leftover food to write signs pleading for help, Israel says.
The men had been staying at the building next to where they were shot "for some period of time", according to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
The head of the IDF told troops that they are "absolutely not" permitted to shoot those surrendering.
"The IDF doesn't shoot a person who raises their hands," said Herzi Halevi.
He said Gazans with a white flag must be arrested and not shot "if they lay down their arms and raise their hands"...
...Israeli officials have admitted that killing the three men who were holding a white flag was a breach of "rules of engagement".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67745092
UKIP surge in the polls.
Someone takes over from Cameron in 2018-ish, against the backdrop of the Tory party being riven over arguments at to whether the wrong side won the referendum, and they should have another one without the lies from the winning side.
The government holds on for a May 2020 election, but Covid hits - the civil contingencies act is invoked to extend Parliament beyond its five year term, boosting Reform/Corbyn Labour further.
At the delayed 2020GE Cameron's successor loses their tiny majority, assuming it still existed by that point. Whether a government has to be formed with a coalition with Farage, or Corbyn is able to put a government together, I don't know, but this means Britain now has a Putin-apologist and anti-vaxxer in government at the time that the country requires a mass vaccination program, and less than two years before Russia attempts to capture Kyiv.
I don't know. It doesn't ever seem that hard to imagine how things could be worse.
The economy is a separate, albeit linked issue.
On the latter score, we'd have had none of the costs of leaving the single market; we'd still have had institutions like the EMA in the UK; we might well have gained the Tesla factory at Germany's expense; the disruption to science and research collaborations wouldn't have happened.
The Boriswave wouldn't have happened.
And Putin's SMO would have been a little less likely.
No one is pretending it would have solved all our problems. But it's perfectly credible to argue they wouldn't have been as bad.
And the succession of idiot Tory PMs almost certainly would not have happened.
Israel tells its troops NOT to shoot innocents or those surrendering, though mistakes will always happen in the fog of war.
Hamas tells its fighters TO shoot innocents.
The way to end the fighting is to fully defeat Hamas and everyone who supports them, until they surrender unconditionally and there's no more fog of war.
The only way to defeat Hamas would be by occupying Gaza and creating a replacement civil authority, but Israel have chosen permanent war instead.
It's been one of the most cynical acts in history.
I'd have thought that any impact on illegal immigration (small boats) would probably be a very late effect of the flag waving. People who are prepared to expose themselves to real danger to come here aren't likely to be put off by the threat implied by UK national flag waving. OTOH people who are merely considering making the choice to come would be more easily put off and people who are already here could perhaps feel too threatened to stay.
It's all very sad.
They can't occupy Gaza as Hamas haven't been defeated yet.
Once Hamas surrenders in full, unconditionally, and releases all hostages then the fighting can end. You can't create a replacement civil authority while Hamas still fights on and holds hostages.
I'm sure Hamas would have fought a bloody insurgency, and I don't know whether Israel would have been able to defeat that, but it would have been a better approach to try than what they have chosen to do.
But given what happened, it certainly wouldn't affect your argument.
https://x.com/zarahsultana/status/1959953478970667405
Grown ups are going to vote for her party? She was making these kind of tweets 10+ years ago as a child about Blair.
That was less of an issue we were part of the single market.
The UK is simply less attractive now as a base for pharma.
There was also the general damage done to research collaborations involving Europe.
I can find some solace in the polling numbers which puts me squarely in a very large majority who think the Israeli government have gone too far. Barty, Blanche and the rest find themselves in a minority of 12% - don't let them make us feel like the weird ones.
From your link it is clear that Israel's policy is not to fire at civilians and allegations that some have are being investigated by the "military advocate general".
Any criminal who breaks the law should face charges, but the Israelis investigate their own and have standards.
Hamas don't investigate those who shoot innocents they tell them to do so and reward them.
This is the sort of thing a terrorist group does .
'It's a Killing Field': IDF Soldiers Ordered to Shoot Deliberately at Unarmed Gazans Waiting for Humanitarian Aid https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-06-27/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-soldiers-ordered-to-shoot-deliberately-at-unarmed-gazans-waiting-for-humanitarian-aid/00000197-ad8e-de01-a39f-ffbe33780000
We'd never have got the Tesla factory as the UK internal investment lot are pretty useless and anti-manufacturing. Thye have missed lots of opportunities.
The Putin statement is ludicrous the UK and Johnson stood up to Putin when the EU's prime concern was gas supplies, and to some extent still is.
On the other hand unlike earlier claims we were first in the queue for a US trade deal and may have it on better terms than the EU.
As for Covid you cant just skip over it it was a seismic event and from what Ive seen none of the other political leaders at home or abroad had an answer to it.
I was saying we had a NICE thing going until Brexit.
The Israeli military added that "reports and complaints regarding the violation of international law by the IDF are transferred to the relevant authorities responsible for examining exceptional incidents that occurred during the war".
So, again, Israel is a state where its citizens and media have free speech and can criticise its own actions. They also have the rule of law and if people break the law it is investigated.
Meanwhile the actions alleged against Israel aren't investigated or prohibited by Hamas they're encouraged. And there is no Hamas equivalent of Haaretz holding them to account.
Whatevs.
I could see a world where we were better off if things had gone differently but unlike you I cant see how there was any certainty in the time period just gone. Covid, Putin, Trump too many black swans at once.
However the basic premise that the same people doing the same things as they had in the last thirty years which have trashed the UK economy is a constant so I dont see how staying in had a guaranteed upside.
Strangely the ID(GA)F fanbois seem to deplore that sort of thing when VVP does it.
Swim and Cycle complete and halfway through the run.
https://www.countypress.co.uk/news/25349398.isle-wight-man-310km-sport-challenge-charity/
Nice to the see the government finally listen to suggestions I've been making for year. All very sensible and reasonable for an unelected body.
I mean, I realise the likes of Sultana and a certain French resident don't believe (a), but then they don't meet my criteria anyway.
French PM Bayrou has just announced he will ask for a confidence vote from the National Assembly on 8 September. What a gamble. His way to defuse the 10 September « insurrection day » called by both Far Right and Far Left? Bonne chance.
#France
I think it is just performative nonsense (though to be fair politics is about performativeness to a degree), but in the present circumstances I can see a lot of people saying they will vote for her party, even if somewhat fewer then vote for it - even knowing a lot of people like Corbyn, a guy who will be 80 at the next election is not going to cut it as a PM candidate, and Sultana is still mostly unknown.
Genuinely surprised the LDs are so low there. I guess whilst they suck up to countryside NIMBYs even more than everyone else does, that does not appeal to the farmers as much.
I've seen Farage called it, Le Pen, and Meloni.
None have come close to initiating brutal wars of conquest that abrogate the laws of war, glorifying death and violence, started genocides or militarised their whole societies, whilst totally suspending democracy, so far as I can tell.
However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.
It's the backlash to the lash.
Think about it: even through sheer random chance, Roger ought to be occasionally right about something at sometimes purely due to the law of averages and basic statistical anomalies. And, yet, he isn't - ever.
It's a remarkable piece of performance art. In fact, I'm rather jealous.
You see this as well with certain sections of the right who get huffily offended about politicians saying something past or present which was critical of Trump, as though the need to work with him as President means no-one should be able to do so pragmatically rather than enthusiastically.
I think Farage would probably be part of the more fiscally liberal coalition.
To some people anyone who has right of centre views they don’t like is far-right which doesn’t help political discourse. Like saying everyone left of centre is socialist. Racism and intolerance have their bailiwick in the extreme reaches of the far right as socialism has its own dark heart.
E.g. "car bans" = LTNs and pedestrianisation, both of which have been uncontroversial topics advocated for by both parties for several decades. I've never had a vegan make much of a fuss about their diet other than a polite request, but have certainly come across carnivores driven close to madness by their very existence.
It's just a lash tbh.
That's not quite the same as giving Israel carte blanche
It's entirely appropriate to accuse Hamas of genocidal intentions, but more than a little odd to ignore the same thing in Israel's current government.
I've certainly got the bug. They're just such great fun, even at my pathetic level.
If we get to the point of an elected Lords people will be free to elect any older people they want in any case.
I’ve never learned grammar or syntax or anything. I run on pure raw talent. Like the Beatles who couldn’t read music
Go ask the teacher in hiding in Batley
You simply deny this is happening. You lie - probably to yourself as well as the world. And then you can pretend that anyone who points this is “far right”
It’s kinda pitiful. And dangerously stupid
However clearly Labour taking large chunks of their land value in tax is unforgiveable, I doubt Labour will win a single rural seat next time. Certainly Labour haven't won a single ward in a rural council by election this year nor did they win any rural wards in the county elections in May
23% of farmers voted Labour on this poll, 22% Reform, 33% Tory, 12% LD, 4% Green
https://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/24421511.tories-top-farmers-poll-reform-close-gap/
I've had an amazingly busy bank holiday weekend. I have any amount of anecdata to regale you with, but I can't actually be bothered - just rest assured it backs up whatever conclusions about the UK you had already reached. But more excitingly, I have:
- been to a wedding (though only the night time - I didn't know them that well)
- been to the tip
- been to a match in the rugby world cup
- met/fed/stroked a capybara (two capybaras, in fact.)
- discovered an awesome new animal (the binturong - look him up - he's ace: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binturong (when I say 'discovered', I'm talking in a purely personal sense - other humans already knew about him)
- flown a kite
- won a toy seagull in a game of skill (darts)
- been involved in a family drama about a lost bracelet, thrillingly resolved after an hour with the use of a big stick
- watched a glorious sunset with my daughters
- erected a tent
- hosted a children's party (at which, impressively, someone is playing 'Never Gonna Give You Up' on the kazoo, quite well).