Skip to content

Gizza job – politicalbetting.com

2456

Comments

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,506

    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    Slightly puzzled by header.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security

    "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.

    The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.

    The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."

    And this is what I think needs to be done for everyone on unemployment benefits, these are jobs that need doing, they pay the minimum wage so do them. I don't think university graduates or anyone under the age of 25 should be eligible for unemployment benefits, if they can go out and socialise they can work in the field or milk cows in a barn or work in a warehouse. It may not be what they want to do but it's still paid work which is better than sitting at home on the dole.
    The big problem with farming work is the location. I live in a rural area surrounded by farms and if you don't have your own transport, it's impossible to work there. Increasing numbers of young people don't have driving licences because of the cost and insane waiting times for tests.

    We need a wholesale reform of vehicle licencing to deal with that. An easy to get licence (possibly modelled on the motorcycle CBT) for lightweight cars - like the Citroen Ami - would help, plus a scheme to help with financing cars like that for young people living in, or with a job offer in, a rural area.
    This feels like something that's solveable though. Subsidised transport for farm workers who get picked up on a bus. I'd rather we do that and enable people to work in essential jobs than pay them to sit at home. £1000 per week for a bus service that ferries 30 young people to work on a daily basis is better than paying those 30 to sit at home on the dole.

    And for people saying I would never have my children do such a thing you're wrong. If any of my kids were unemployed after education I'd be signing them up for these kinds of schemes immediately. It's great, character building work and they'll learn amazing new skills, get out in the field and be healthy, meet some people they wouldn't otherwise socialise with and see a lifestyle that is completely alien to them. For me there is no option to sit at home on the dole, maybe it's because my parents never gave me that same option.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,897
    Chris Philp again.

    "Shadow Home Secretary Chris Philp has urged a review of the 15-month jail term handed to a wealthy recruitment boss who hurled death threats and racist abuse at cabin crew. Salman Iftikhar, 37, was flying first class from London Heathrow to Lahore when he told Virgin Atlantic stewardess Angie Walsh she would be dragged from her hotel room, gang raped and set alight. Philp has written to Attorney General Lord Hermer, arguing the sentence was “unduly lenient”, urging him to consider referring the case to the Court of Appeal for an increase."

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/man-threatened-british-airways-staff-heathrow-sentence-review-b1242622.html
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,726
    Carnyx said:

    Slightly puzzled by header.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security

    "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.

    The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.

    The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."

    This is part of the British disease right there. Employers expect people to be trained at someone else's expense, and aren't willing to do the training themselves.

    Who is going to train workers on dairy farms if not dairy farmers?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,541
    In other news, this guy is really sharp and not a dribbling senile idiot...

    Trump: "They brought him one and I won't tell you who it was, but it was a big name but the chest wasn't exactly what you need. One shot and your heart would pop out. That wasn't too good. Then he did another one and he was fat, sloppy, but had a good face."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lwc6en7xnn2x
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,079
    edited August 13
    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,225
    Leon said:

    I’m walking from Shoreditch House through the City

    This is such an amazing part of the world. This tiny corner of the planet has maybe had more influence on humanity than any other square mile anywhere else

    Here is where we financed the Industrial Revolution. And here is where we financed the world’s greatest empire

    London may be doomed but my god we built something profoundly impressive. The clash of architecture and history is intoxicating

    Some would beg to differ on that interpretation.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,781
    Leon said:

    I’m walking from Shoreditch House through the City

    This is such an amazing part of the world. This tiny corner of the planet has maybe had more influence on humanity than any other square mile anywhere else

    Here is where we financed the Industrial Revolution. And here is where we financed the world’s greatest empire

    London may be doomed but my god we built something profoundly impressive. The clash of architecture and history is intoxicating

    All of the many things that have been done in London, and you pick London's not-insignificant but supporting role in the industrial revolution? Which is essentially the north's single biggest achievement? I am going to choose to respond to this post by feeling flattered.
    They could put that on the 'welcome to London' signs: "London - when Manchester was changing the world, we helped."
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,707
    Carnyx said:

    Slightly puzzled by header.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security

    "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.

    The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.

    The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."

    too much like hard work for the bone idle
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,506
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    I’m walking from Shoreditch House through the City

    This is such an amazing part of the world. This tiny corner of the planet has maybe had more influence on humanity than any other square mile anywhere else

    Here is where we financed the Industrial Revolution. And here is where we financed the world’s greatest empire

    London may be doomed but my god we built something profoundly impressive. The clash of architecture and history is intoxicating

    All of the many things that have been done in London, and you pick London's not-insignificant but supporting role in the industrial revolution? Which is essentially the north's single biggest achievement? I am going to choose to respond to this post by feeling flattered.
    They could put that on the 'welcome to London' signs: "London - when Manchester was changing the world, we helped."
    Leon did say "financed" which is a pretty big part of the industrial revolution. The money absolutely came from London's finance, even back then it was a huge sector.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,123
    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Philp again.

    "Shadow Home Secretary Chris Philp has urged a review of the 15-month jail term handed to a wealthy recruitment boss who hurled death threats and racist abuse at cabin crew. Salman Iftikhar, 37, was flying first class from London Heathrow to Lahore when he told Virgin Atlantic stewardess Angie Walsh she would be dragged from her hotel room, gang raped and set alight. Philp has written to Attorney General Lord Hermer, arguing the sentence was “unduly lenient”, urging him to consider referring the case to the Court of Appeal for an increase."

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/man-threatened-british-airways-staff-heathrow-sentence-review-b1242622.html

    That strikes me as a bit of a twattish thing to do. The last thing we need is political interference in individual sentences.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,675
    Leon said:

    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics

    The idea that this is some fresh killer point when pooped out by a Yoon for the millionth time is also pretty hot in the self delusion stakes.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,881
    Leon said:

    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics

    Such ignorance you show. The decline of unthinking Unionism helped greatly in the revival of inquiry into questions of Scottish history, such as the significance of slavery.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,481
    Leon said:

    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics

    There was a piece in the Guardian a couple of days ago relating to Scotlands role in slavery and the slave trade.

    And no, it wasn't noble opposition!
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,976
    Carnyx said:

    Battlebus said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.lancashire.ac.uk/news/ancient-dna-west-african-ancestry

    Ancient DNA analysis uncovers evidence for West African ancestry in two unconnected burials from seventh-century-AD England.

    In both individuals, their African ancestors were recent, likely at the grandparent level.

    Whilst one cemetery showed royal connections to continental Europe, the other was on the fringes of the Anglo-Saxon world.
    This is the first evidence for genetic connections between Britain and Africa during the Early Middle Ages.


    Immigrants, coming over here, getting buried in the 7th century...

    Or even earlier, like Barates the Palmyrene Geordie.

    https://blog.twmuseums.org.uk/the-regina-tombstone/

    "This is the tombstone of Regina from the tribe of the Catuvellauni, freedwoman and wife of Barates from Palmyra. She came from southern England and he came from Syria and they ended up at South Shields."
    Something about South Shields. Large Somali community.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalis_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Seamen, presumably? But then it is a port just as it was in Roman times. Maybe Barates opened a bar when he retired from the cohort.
    As it happens, I know the lady who wrote the piece about Regina.

    South Shields historically had a large "Arab" population and the locals were at one point known as Sand Dancers. As I understand it, they were desce3 from lascar seamen but maybe it continued long enough for people of Somalia origin to want to settle there more recently. The Roman name, Arbeia, is supposed to come from "Arab" and there was certainly a unit of Tigris bargemen stationed there. But that's a complete coincidence.

    I was recently in a museum that had a load of stuff from Roman Palmyra but I can't for the life of me remember where it was. Certainly not in the Middle East. Maybe the museum in Skopje.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,838
    Leon said:

    Good afternoon

    As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position

    It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

    How many times have I said “universities are doomed”

    I’m right. Yet again. I’m always right. Basically we should call the site Leonisright.com
    Oddly hundreds of thousands of kids will be getting good news tomorrow and heading of to uni in a few weeks.
    No signs of doom yet, old man. Financial pressures relate almost entirely to inflation eroding the capped tuition fees.
    But hey, you think you are always right about everything. If only there was a three word summary of that?
    What three words?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,079

    Leon said:

    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics

    The idea that this is some fresh killer point when pooped out by a Yoon for the millionth time is also pretty hot in the self delusion stakes.
    And yet you maintain this wilful self deception over the decades. And on it goes
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,225

    sarissa said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Massive thunderstorm making its way through London, biblical rain according to my friends south of the river.

    It's still cracking flags, up in Yorkshire.
    Any PBers in the path of the massive lightning storms in France?
    https://www.lightningmaps.org/#m=ses;t=3;s=0;o=0;b=;ts=0;z=7;y=42.563;x=1.7014;d=2;dl=2;dc=0;
    So at what time do we expect the French to surrender?
    While they have to protect their precious Burgundy? Never.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,079
    An amusing young man brandishing a gold chocolate coin from Fortnum and Mason just accosted me in the Royal Exchange, engaged me in a discussion of vortices and the aethereal plane, and then said “you’re like a God”

    This literally and truly just happened. The Simulation Theory grows evermore salient
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,187
    edited August 13
    [FPT, sorry, had to go and sort some 90 year olds...]

    Eabhal said:

    stodge said:

    Eabhal said:

    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Yes, poor numbers for Labour but I think we know if any other party were in Government at this time their numbers would be as bad if not worse.

    It's often said some elections are "bad ones to win" - 1992 being a good example - but 2024 would be right up there it seems. I'll be honest (and this seems a peculiarly London-centric view) - I don't think Starmer is doing too badly. At worst he's Continuity Sunak but big shifts in governance aren't easy - as has been said, there were probably only three really radical Governments in the 20th century - Asquith, Attlee and Thatcher.

    In a globally interconnected world, doing something radical isn't easy and even within Britain one decision impacts on others. Cuts in public spending on the scale some here would seem to want don't end at the balance sheet - they would impact real people in their daily lives, perhaps not the individuals and their families urging the deep cuts but nonetheless.

    Government is difficult especially at a time of weak economic growth - however you try to slice the cake someone complains about their share or lack of it. I do agree some of the initial ideas of the new Government were implemented in a hamfisted way - removing Winter Fuel Allowance from higher rate taxpayers while retaining it for those on basic rate would probably have been sellable. The "boats" defy all attempts at a solution for now though I suspect autumn and winter will slow things down a bit.

    Cutting Peter's benefits to ensure Paul pays less tax isn't the answer and nor is raising Paul's taxes so Peter can keep all his benefits so it becomes dancing on a pinhead in terms of what you can and can't do.

    It also becomes easier to look for scapegoats - blame the migrants, blame the scroungers, blame those with mental and physical challenges, blame those with long Covid, blame the last Government, blame this Government etc.

    You can see the attraction of masterly inactivity and the destiny of the poor can as it gets propelled once more down the road. You can also see why those peddling "easy answers" get traction.

    The problem I see it is that Starmer is built for a sort of managerial role when the country doesn’t need it. He might have been a decently average (or even average to good) PM conceivably, in 2015, or in the 1960s, or in the John Major role. He just isn’t the “cometh the hour” person.

    The Atlees, Thatchers, Asquiths of this world are rare but they’re precisely what we need right now - a purpose, a radical sense of mission, and a party firmly behind them. Farage play-acts as one of those people, but isnt the real deal.
    Ah, yes, the "strong" leader. The "radical" leader. It's seductive I know to think all our problems could be dealt with by such an individual - we could vote them in and then they would lead us from the valley of the shadow to the sunlit uplands...

    Blah, blah, blah - that's how authoritarianism starts. I'd rather our imperfect, bumbling democracy than a "strong" leader. The truth probably is we could solve a lot of our problems ourselves with some changes in our personal behaviour and within our communities - that would be really radical.

    The problem with top-down solutions is they create bottom-up problems. Somebody suggested yesterday it was all the fault of "fatties" as he called them and said everyone who was overweight should be given free Mounjaro. Well, setting aside the economics, the practicalities and the legalities (but they aren't that individual's strong suit), Mounjaro isn't side effect free as I know from a friend who has used it.

    The other consequence is if you have a significant portion (sorry) of the population on appetite suppressing drugs, what happens to the catering and hospitality industries? Do the non-"fatties" have to become "fatties" in order to keep every cafe and restaurant from my cafe in the Barking Road to the top three Michelin star eaterie going? Will we see Gordon Ramsey begging on the streets as his restaurant empire collapses from lack of demand?
    The claim that radical change in a democracy is dictatorship or something is an old, old cry.

    The problem is that, in many areas, the government is not doing much, if anything.

    On health in the community - why not some trials? Pick an area. Vitality style rewards for health indicators. You wouldn’t need legislation for that.
    £100 off income tax (or added to your UC or State Pension) if you have a healthy BMI or can run 5K in less than 30 minutes.
    First, we know BMI isn't the be all and end all as a measure of health. Second, physical exercise tests - seriously? Third, £100 - a lot of people will see it as not worth the effort (make it £10,000 a year and you;d get more takers).
    Tough. The NHS is going to collapse under the weight of the population and we already have the classic insurance issues of moral hazard and adverse selection.

    Health inequality is enormous. We have a group of well paid, healthy and active people paying a huge amount of tax for a service they rarely use because it's been overwhelmed by the old and inactive.

    That's completely unsustainable, a breach of the social contract. And this is coming from someone who is instinctively generous with government support for those who need it.
    Most of the redistribution done by the NHS is over time. If you're healthy and active, you are paying for your future care more than you are paying for inactive others'. Even if you eat well and do lots of physical activity, you're going to die at some point and most of the average person's health costs are at the end of life.

    Now, that doesn't argue against the importance of health promotion. Health promotion is very cost effective. We should be doing more to encourage physical activity and healthy diets. What's the best way of doing that? Giving people £100 for being fit, or spending £4 billion on council gyms and good quality health promotion apps?
    If we were paying for our future care that would be fine. But we aren't, are we?

    We aren't even paying for current care requirements.

    The whole Ponzi scheme is collapsing and nobody wants to admit it.
    We pay for current old people's care, and when we're old, a younger generation will pay for our care. This is not a Ponzi scheme. (Calling it a Ponzi scheme is one of the laziest lines in politics.) The country is currently running a deficit, but talk of "collapsing" is hyperbole.
    It very much is a Ponzi scheme. We have to have new people entering the arrangement (children or immigrants) otherwise the whole system fails. At present there aren't enough so we are borrowing in the hope that we can find some at a later date or by some miracle make the current liabilities go away.

    What is causing this collapse is that originally retirement was very short for most people and it didn't take a high proportion of people working to keep those in retirement going.

    Now many people spend decades retired and are spending a lot of that extra time unhealthy.

    Either we work out a way of making the unproductive cheaper or we run out of children and immigrants prepared to do the work.


    I can't claim to be free of guilt as I've semi-retired recently because corporate work is not really much fun any more.

    I do wonder if we will eventually hit a prolonged period of inflation as the number of productive people available to spend any savings with diminishes and the housing wealth currently held by the 'boomers' gets passed on.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,343
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    Slightly puzzled by header.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security

    "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.

    The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.

    The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."

    And this is what I think needs to be done for everyone on unemployment benefits, these are jobs that need doing, they pay the minimum wage so do them. I don't think university graduates or anyone under the age of 25 should be eligible for unemployment benefits, if they can go out and socialise they can work in the field or milk cows in a barn or work in a warehouse. It may not be what they want to do but it's still paid work which is better than sitting at home on the dole.
    The big problem with farming work is the location. I live in a rural area surrounded by farms and if you don't have your own transport, it's impossible to work there. Increasing numbers of young people don't have driving licences because of the cost and insane waiting times for tests.

    We need a wholesale reform of vehicle licencing to deal with that. An easy to get licence (possibly modelled on the motorcycle CBT) for lightweight cars - like the Citroen Ami - would help, plus a scheme to help with financing cars like that for young people living in, or with a job offer in, a rural area.
    This feels like something that's solveable though. Subsidised transport for farm workers who get picked up on a bus. I'd rather we do that and enable people to work in essential jobs than pay them to sit at home. £1000 per week for a bus service that ferries 30 young people to work on a daily basis is better than paying those 30 to sit at home on the dole.

    And for people saying I would never have my children do such a thing you're wrong. If any of my kids were unemployed after education I'd be signing them up for these kinds of schemes immediately. It's great, character building work and they'll learn amazing new skills, get out in the field and be healthy, meet some people they wouldn't otherwise socialise with and see a lifestyle that is completely alien to them. For me there is no option to sit at home on the dole, maybe it's because my parents never gave me that same option.
    That’s a good idea, run transport from nearby towns to the farms. There’s a lot of basically unskilled farm work, but I suspect it’s the more difficult tasks of operating expensive and delicate machinery for which the farms are struggling to recruit.

    You don’t don’t want to have any Tom, Dick, or Jeremy, learning to drive a combine during the actual harvest. At least not if you don’t have a TV crew paying very well to document the idiocy.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,726

    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    Slightly puzzled by header.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security

    "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.

    The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.

    The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."

    And this is what I think needs to be done for everyone on unemployment benefits, these are jobs that need doing, they pay the minimum wage so do them. I don't think university graduates or anyone under the age of 25 should be eligible for unemployment benefits, if they can go out and socialise they can work in the field or milk cows in a barn or work in a warehouse. It may not be what they want to do but it's still paid work which is better than sitting at home on the dole.
    Milking cows is not a trivial thing to do. Really takes time to learn. Personally if I were to become Defra Secretary I would line up all the staff and see how many could plough a straight furrow, milk a cow and shear a tup. I can't do all three but can do two of them.
    My brother-in-law is a retired dairy farmer. It is actually quite astonishing how milking has advanced of the years. Over his career, he went from milking cows by hand to simply pressing buttons on the automatic milking machines.
    My brother-in-law helped to build a self-milking dairy shed. If dairy farmers can't find the milkers maybe they need to look into automation?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,897
    Interesting thought.

    "Consider the increasing evidence for the “Dead Internet” theory, the suspicion that maybe even a majority of the internet is, at this point, only dead bots interacting with other dead bots."

    https://unherd.com/2025/08/will-you-survive-the-digital-burnout
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,506

    Leon said:

    Good afternoon

    As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position

    It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

    How many times have I said “universities are doomed”

    I’m right. Yet again. I’m always right. Basically we should call the site Leonisright.com
    Oddly hundreds of thousands of kids will be getting good news tomorrow and heading of to uni in a few weeks.
    No signs of doom yet, old man. Financial pressures relate almost entirely to inflation eroding the capped tuition fees.
    But hey, you think you are always right about everything. If only there was a three word summary of that?
    What three words?
    Leon is right about university education to a very large degree. I graduated into the firestorm of the financial crisis, I had to work in a Topshop/Topman for 6 months before I found a better job and even that was barely an improvement, it took me almost a year to land my first real job in software development. However, I knew at the time that "this too shall pass" and I would eventually find a good career role and start building myself a real life.

    This batch of graduates who aren't in vocational degrees or going down the standard academic pathway of a masters degree to delay the inevitable don't have that comfort. The market for juniors/associates/graduates has been irrevocably altered by AI in almost every white collar/desk based job. It means the competition for service jobs in big cities is insane now, in a few months we're going to once again hear about barista etc... jobs that get 2000 applications just as we did in 2008-2010 but this time those young people have no reason to believe that "this too shall pass". There is no guarantee of a career role for them where you can sit behind a desk in front of a monitor for 35h per week and pull in a half decent starter salary then build it into a career that enables you to have a good lifestyle. Companies just aren't hiring for those jobs like they used to, a chosen few with good connections and the ability to get introductions will find a way in but everyone else is, sadly, in big trouble.

    My advice to them is to think about starting a wine bar, food truck, or some other such service oriented career path because that white collar desk job just doesn't seem realistic for this generation of graduates.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,098
    Credit to Robert Jenrick (four words you thought might never appear in the same sentence).

    Since his video of fare dodgers at Stratford, it seems Transport for London have started to get their act together and revenue inspection is now a thing.

    On Monday, Mrs Stodge were on our way home through West Ham when we encountered a team of a dozen revenue inspectors doing a ticket check on tube passengers accessing the Jubilee Line. They were already reaping a fine harvest of non-payers including the perennial "I left my card at home" excuse. Those I saw being questionned were young (18-25) and of varying ethnicities (as that seems to be of import these days).

    Today, on the Elizabeth Line, another team caught four older men all travelling without tickets and held them until British Transport Police escorted them off the train at Ilford. To be fair, I think other non-payers decided to get off and wait for another train.

    As for the buses, I saw one man push his way on to a bus without paying - the driver did nothing. Give there are 8,700 buses serving 675 routes the challenge of revenue inspection and control is considerable.

    Given the scale of the problem, I'm forced to muse on the scale of the solution. To eliminate fare dodging is probably impossible and prohibitively expensive so there's a proportion of non-paying journeys which TfL accept - not sure what that is but I suspect it's larger than they are prepared to admit.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,561

    Good afternoon

    As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position

    It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

    As Ray Dalio has said the warning lights are flashing.
    Dalio says that every other day.

    He’s a crap manger and a crap investor. Just very good at marketing and fundraising
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,709

    I see tribune of the land of the free Vance is asking for the handles of social media users in the vicinity of his fishing holiday. Plod seems to be only obeying orders and knocking on locals’ doors to find them.

    https://shorturl.at/ZSPDH

    I'd hope with no success. Cheek of it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,881
    edited August 13

    Leon said:

    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics

    There was a piece in the Guardian a couple of days ago relating to Scotlands role in slavery and the slave trade.

    And no, it wasn't noble opposition!
    If it's the piece I'm thinking of, it's tied in to a Feastival Fringe event - like almost everything in the Graun on Scotland at the moment (always the case in [edit] August). It's piggybacked onto the recent report for Edinburgh University, but I don't think the author was involved in that. The actual Graun report on that was interesting but unsurprising.

    They've ben discussing slavery and Scotland for *decades* now, ditto such things as the various views on human diversity held by anatomists at different times. Very interesting. As it happened I did some research on this question in one seaport when volunteering for a cultural organization and the more I dug the more I realised how complex it all was. One key element was that much of it worked through the structure of the British Empire - prize money, trading profits, etc. from naval officers and administrators out in the Caribbean but ultimately stemming from slavery wealth one way or another. Not just the direct trade transactions with the plantations, though those were important too.

    And there was in fact a lot of 'noble opposition' - the local equivalent of the Quakers and Clapham lot down south.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,847

    https://www.lancashire.ac.uk/news/ancient-dna-west-african-ancestry

    Ancient DNA analysis uncovers evidence for West African ancestry in two unconnected burials from seventh-century-AD England.

    In both individuals, their African ancestors were recent, likely at the grandparent level.

    Whilst one cemetery showed royal connections to continental Europe, the other was on the fringes of the Anglo-Saxon world.
    This is the first evidence for genetic connections between Britain and Africa during the Early Middle Ages.


    Immigrants, coming over here, getting buried in the 7th century...

    I don’t know why this is such a surprise. I get that it’s wonderful news for anyone a bit excitable who wants to point and say “see, there have been black people in England for centuries” but they are as stupid as those who like to think we were “pure and white” since time immemorial.

    It’s not surprising because the DNA shows they had, in a family line, latest grand parental, African ancestry. We know full well that there were plenty of people in England during the Roman Empire from Africa as soldiers and traders. It’s not remotely bizarre to think that they stayed and had families, maybe initially amongst other immigrants from similar backgrounds (we see today that immigrant communities often marry within those communities generations after first arrival) and/or with native inhabitants. It’s clearly not surprising we have DNA evidence of this.

    The UK was visited by Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans and North Africans over centuries who weren’t homogenous and included in their parties were Africans. So there is always a chance for DNA in v old English graves to show a host of ancestry from around Europe, Africa and the Middle East.

    It’s like someone in modern Turkey being surprised when they find Northern European DNA in old burials when we know there was trading, soldiers, slaves from Britain, Ireland and Scandinavia in the region, or Indians being shocked by Ancient Greek DNA in burials.

    If the DNA in a “dark ages” English burial shows up as Aztec or Sioux then I’m interested, otherwise it’s just fluff.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,168

    I see tribune of the land of the free Vance is asking for the handles of social media users in the vicinity of his fishing holiday. Plod seems to be only obeying orders and knocking on locals’ doors to find them.

    https://shorturl.at/ZSPDH

    Vance is scared of the effing Cotswolds ?

    Some hillbilly he is.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,675
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics

    The idea that this is some fresh killer point when pooped out by a Yoon for the millionth time is also pretty hot in the self delusion stakes.
    And yet you maintain this wilful self deception over the decades. And on it goes
    ‘You’?
    Is this another ascription of your own tedious tropes to folk that have never said any such thing?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,168
    The F35B has some utility, after all.

    For the first time, a 🇬🇧British F-35B fighter jet landed and took off from the 🇯🇵Japanese helicopter carrier JS Kaga (DDH-184).
    https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1955354187362939356

    Please, let's flog them to the Japanese.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,123
    Nigelb said:

    I see tribune of the land of the free Vance is asking for the handles of social media users in the vicinity of his fishing holiday. Plod seems to be only obeying orders and knocking on locals’ doors to find them.

    https://shorturl.at/ZSPDH

    Vance is scared of the effing Cotswolds ?

    Some hillbilly he is.
    I'm disappointed not to have seen anyone in a Mussolini costume doing a Roman salute as they went past.

    No humour left in the Cotswolds.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,881
    Nigelb said:

    I see tribune of the land of the free Vance is asking for the handles of social media users in the vicinity of his fishing holiday. Plod seems to be only obeying orders and knocking on locals’ doors to find them.

    https://shorturl.at/ZSPDH

    Vance is scared of the effing Cotswolds ?

    Some hillbilly he is.
    Thje problem is apparently that someome published, on social media, a pic of Mr Vance as a Furby. I have no idea what the significance of this is, or indeed what a Furby is when it's at home, wherever that might be.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,897
    "Times Radio
    @TimesRadio

    “It's the gentlemanly thing to do.” Reform UK deputy leader @TiceRichard backs more private groups of men patrolling the streets to protect women “on a Neighbourhood Watch-style basis within the bounds of the law”."

    https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/1955191845484453915
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,104
    Leon said:

    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics

    Coincidentally, just been discussing (as you do) the frequent occurrence of the word "Camperdown" here and there, including India. Turns out it was a famous sea battle in which Dundonian admiral Adam Duncan well and truly duffed up the Dutch. A formidable fellow - 6'4" in his stockinged feet - big lad for the 18th C. One of many Scots to distinguish himself back in the day when the empire was being established. There is still an HMS Duncan in the fleet - Type 45 frigate,
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,847
    edited August 13
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Philp again.

    "Shadow Home Secretary Chris Philp has urged a review of the 15-month jail term handed to a wealthy recruitment boss who hurled death threats and racist abuse at cabin crew. Salman Iftikhar, 37, was flying first class from London Heathrow to Lahore when he told Virgin Atlantic stewardess Angie Walsh she would be dragged from her hotel room, gang raped and set alight. Philp has written to Attorney General Lord Hermer, arguing the sentence was “unduly lenient”, urging him to consider referring the case to the Court of Appeal for an increase."

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/man-threatened-british-airways-staff-heathrow-sentence-review-b1242622.html

    That strikes me as a bit of a twattish thing to do. The last thing we need is political interference in individual sentences.
    The Unduly Lenient Sentencing Scheme was set up precisely so members of the public can ask for review. I’m assuming you read what he did and surprised you don’t think that absolutely terrorising an air stewardess - that he knew where she lived and which hotel in Pakistan she would be staying in and that he had the power to arrange for her to be gang raped as well as putting people on a flight in fear and danger, deserves a very long time in the clink.

    She was trapped with this guy making threats for hours and then had to live with the fear that his threats and knowledge were backed up and she was in danger after they landed.

    I see absolutely no problem with Philp or anyone demanding a review.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,881

    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    Slightly puzzled by header.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security

    "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.

    The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.

    The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."

    And this is what I think needs to be done for everyone on unemployment benefits, these are jobs that need doing, they pay the minimum wage so do them. I don't think university graduates or anyone under the age of 25 should be eligible for unemployment benefits, if they can go out and socialise they can work in the field or milk cows in a barn or work in a warehouse. It may not be what they want to do but it's still paid work which is better than sitting at home on the dole.
    Milking cows is not a trivial thing to do. Really takes time to learn. Personally if I were to become Defra Secretary I would line up all the staff and see how many could plough a straight furrow, milk a cow and shear a tup. I can't do all three but can do two of them.
    My brother-in-law is a retired dairy farmer. It is actually quite astonishing how milking has advanced of the years. Over his career, he went from milking cows by hand to simply pressing buttons on the automatic milking machines.
    My brother-in-law helped to build a self-milking dairy shed. If dairy farmers can't find the milkers maybe they need to look into automation?
    They had milking machines when I were very small. Even today, one would stilll need a cowman (well, two, for days off etc.) to look after the bestial themselves, not to mention the machines.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801
    edited August 13

    https://www.ft.com/content/618f07cb-3cd8-42ff-af63-29118d305cbe

    UK porn site traffic plunges as age verification rules take effect

    Pornhub loses more than 1mn visitors in two weeks after Online Safety Act comes into force

    "Anyone using a VPN in the UK would appear in Similarweb’s data as if they were accessing a site from another country. It is unclear to what extent the sudden change in traffic patterns to Pornhub and its rivals can be attributed to VPN usage."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,881

    Leon said:

    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics

    Coincidentally, just been discussing (as you do) the frequent occurrence of the word "Camperdown" here and there, including India. Turns out it was a famous sea battle in which Dundonian admiral Adam Duncan well and truly duffed up the Dutch. A formidable fellow - 6'4" in his stockinged feet - big lad for the 18th C. One of many Scots to distinguish himself back in the day when the empire was being established. There is still an HMS Duncan in the fleet - Type 45 frigate,
    Cochrane, too.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,709

    https://www.ft.com/content/618f07cb-3cd8-42ff-af63-29118d305cbe

    UK porn site traffic plunges as age verification rules take effect

    Pornhub loses more than 1mn visitors in two weeks after Online Safety Act comes into force

    Big win for the OSA. We should see a boost to productivity.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,481
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics

    There was a piece in the Guardian a couple of days ago relating to Scotlands role in slavery and the slave trade.

    And no, it wasn't noble opposition!
    If it's the piece I'm thinking of, it's tied in to a Feastival Fringe event - like almost everything in the Graun on Scotland at the moment (always the case in [edit] August). It's piggybacked onto the recent report for Edinburgh University, but I don't think the author was involved in that. The actual Graun report on that was interesting but unsurprising.

    They've ben discussing slavery and Scotland for *decades* now, ditto such things as the various views on human diversity held by anatomists at different times. Very interesting. As it happened I did some research on this question in one seaport when volunteering for a cultural organization and the more I dug the more I realised how complex it all was. One key element was that much of it worked through the structure of the British Empire - prize money, trading profits, etc. from naval officers and administrators out in the Caribbean but ultimately stemming from slavery wealth one way or another. Not just the direct trade transactions with the plantations, though those were important too.

    And there was in fact a lot of 'noble opposition' - the local equivalent of the Quakers and Clapham lot down south.
    You're right of course; the whole thing's very complex. How can one 'blame' naval officers for 'taking part' slave trading. It's all very well taking a high-minded attitude to 'only following orders' when one hasn't got a wife and family to support, but under those circumstances things get complicated.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,079
    We should make really fat people on benefits go out and pick up all the litter. Win win
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,192
    Scotland here: too hot for bowls, too hot to sit in partial shade in the garden
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,691
    Leon said:

    An amusing young man brandishing a gold chocolate coin from Fortnum and Mason just accosted me in the Royal Exchange, engaged me in a discussion of vortices and the aethereal plane, and then said “you’re like a God”

    This literally and truly just happened. The Simulation Theory grows evermore salient

    Clearly the sun is well over the yardarm wherever you are today...
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,847

    Leon said:

    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics

    Coincidentally, just been discussing (as you do) the frequent occurrence of the word "Camperdown" here and there, including India. Turns out it was a famous sea battle in which Dundonian admiral Adam Duncan well and truly duffed up the Dutch. A formidable fellow - 6'4" in his stockinged feet - big lad for the 18th C. One of many Scots to distinguish himself back in the day when the empire was being established. There is still an HMS Duncan in the fleet - Type 45 frigate,
    Admiral Lord Thomas Cochrane is definitely another Scots hero we should know more about. Not only his heroism in the French Revolutionary Wars and Napoleonic war but his vital role in the independence of the Spanish Empire in South America. Crazy guy, crazy life.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,343
    boulay said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Philp again.

    "Shadow Home Secretary Chris Philp has urged a review of the 15-month jail term handed to a wealthy recruitment boss who hurled death threats and racist abuse at cabin crew. Salman Iftikhar, 37, was flying first class from London Heathrow to Lahore when he told Virgin Atlantic stewardess Angie Walsh she would be dragged from her hotel room, gang raped and set alight. Philp has written to Attorney General Lord Hermer, arguing the sentence was “unduly lenient”, urging him to consider referring the case to the Court of Appeal for an increase."

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/man-threatened-british-airways-staff-heathrow-sentence-review-b1242622.html

    That strikes me as a bit of a twattish thing to do. The last thing we need is political interference in individual sentences.
    The Unduly Lenient Sentencing Scheme was set up precisely so members of the public can ask for review. I’m assuming you read what he did and surprised you don’t think that absolutely terrorising an air stewardess - that he knew where she lived and which hotel in Pakistan she would be staying in and that he had the power to arrange for her to be gang raped as well as putting people on a flight in fear and danger, deserves a very long time in the clink.

    She was trapped with this guy making threats for hours and then had to live with the fear that his threats and knowledge were backed up and she was in danger after they landed.

    I see absolutely no problem with Philip or anyone demanding a review.
    That case was utterly horrific, and many in the aviation community are calling out the sentence as very lenient given the circumstances.

    Regardless of the eventual sentence, he should also be banned for life from flying on any airline.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,881

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics

    There was a piece in the Guardian a couple of days ago relating to Scotlands role in slavery and the slave trade.

    And no, it wasn't noble opposition!
    If it's the piece I'm thinking of, it's tied in to a Feastival Fringe event - like almost everything in the Graun on Scotland at the moment (always the case in [edit] August). It's piggybacked onto the recent report for Edinburgh University, but I don't think the author was involved in that. The actual Graun report on that was interesting but unsurprising.

    They've ben discussing slavery and Scotland for *decades* now, ditto such things as the various views on human diversity held by anatomists at different times. Very interesting. As it happened I did some research on this question in one seaport when volunteering for a cultural organization and the more I dug the more I realised how complex it all was. One key element was that much of it worked through the structure of the British Empire - prize money, trading profits, etc. from naval officers and administrators out in the Caribbean but ultimately stemming from slavery wealth one way or another. Not just the direct trade transactions with the plantations, though those were important too.

    And there was in fact a lot of 'noble opposition' - the local equivalent of the Quakers and Clapham lot down south.
    You're right of course; the whole thing's very complex. How can one 'blame' naval officers for 'taking part' slave trading. It's all very well taking a high-minded attitude to 'only following orders' when one hasn't got a wife and family to support, but under those circumstances things get complicated.
    Well, one thinks of what hjappened if the naval officers etc. captured a French slave trader (depending very much on the date what happened to the cargo), or a French vessel full of slave-grown sugar, or about the local professionals and agents who processed the sales in the prize courts whether at home or in the Windies and took their cut ...

    And then the money comes back home when they retire or their heirs inherit, and so on.

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,726
    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    Slightly puzzled by header.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security

    "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.

    The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.

    The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."

    And this is what I think needs to be done for everyone on unemployment benefits, these are jobs that need doing, they pay the minimum wage so do them. I don't think university graduates or anyone under the age of 25 should be eligible for unemployment benefits, if they can go out and socialise they can work in the field or milk cows in a barn or work in a warehouse. It may not be what they want to do but it's still paid work which is better than sitting at home on the dole.
    Milking cows is not a trivial thing to do. Really takes time to learn. Personally if I were to become Defra Secretary I would line up all the staff and see how many could plough a straight furrow, milk a cow and shear a tup. I can't do all three but can do two of them.
    My brother-in-law is a retired dairy farmer. It is actually quite astonishing how milking has advanced of the years. Over his career, he went from milking cows by hand to simply pressing buttons on the automatic milking machines.
    My brother-in-law helped to build a self-milking dairy shed. If dairy farmers can't find the milkers maybe they need to look into automation?
    They had milking machines when I were very small. Even today, one would stilll need a cowman (well, two, for days off etc.) to look after the bestial themselves, not to mention the machines.
    My understanding is that the cows can go and be milked when they want. Quite different to a milking machine from decades ago. Obviously you'd still need some people to look after the herd and the machines, but it's a different quantity of labour required.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,709
    boulay said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Philp again.

    "Shadow Home Secretary Chris Philp has urged a review of the 15-month jail term handed to a wealthy recruitment boss who hurled death threats and racist abuse at cabin crew. Salman Iftikhar, 37, was flying first class from London Heathrow to Lahore when he told Virgin Atlantic stewardess Angie Walsh she would be dragged from her hotel room, gang raped and set alight. Philp has written to Attorney General Lord Hermer, arguing the sentence was “unduly lenient”, urging him to consider referring the case to the Court of Appeal for an increase."

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/man-threatened-british-airways-staff-heathrow-sentence-review-b1242622.html

    That strikes me as a bit of a twattish thing to do. The last thing we need is political interference in individual sentences.
    The Unduly Lenient Sentencing Scheme was set up precisely so members of the public can ask for review. I’m assuming you read what he did and surprised you don’t think that absolutely terrorising an air stewardess - that he knew where she lived and which hotel in Pakistan she would be staying in and that he had the power to arrange for her to be gang raped as well as putting people on a flight in fear and danger, deserves a very long time in the clink.

    She was trapped with this guy making threats for hours and then had to live with the fear that his threats and knowledge were backed up and she was in danger after they landed.

    I see absolutely no problem with Philp or anyone demanding a review.
    You can only request a review, I think. You can't demand one.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,709
    Andy_JS said:

    "Times Radio
    @TimesRadio

    “It's the gentlemanly thing to do.” Reform UK deputy leader @TiceRichard backs more private groups of men patrolling the streets to protect women “on a Neighbourhood Watch-style basis within the bounds of the law”."

    https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/1955191845484453915

    Like in To Kill A Mockingbird.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,847
    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Philp again.

    "Shadow Home Secretary Chris Philp has urged a review of the 15-month jail term handed to a wealthy recruitment boss who hurled death threats and racist abuse at cabin crew. Salman Iftikhar, 37, was flying first class from London Heathrow to Lahore when he told Virgin Atlantic stewardess Angie Walsh she would be dragged from her hotel room, gang raped and set alight. Philp has written to Attorney General Lord Hermer, arguing the sentence was “unduly lenient”, urging him to consider referring the case to the Court of Appeal for an increase."

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/man-threatened-british-airways-staff-heathrow-sentence-review-b1242622.html

    That strikes me as a bit of a twattish thing to do. The last thing we need is political interference in individual sentences.
    The Unduly Lenient Sentencing Scheme was set up precisely so members of the public can ask for review. I’m assuming you read what he did and surprised you don’t think that absolutely terrorising an air stewardess - that he knew where she lived and which hotel in Pakistan she would be staying in and that he had the power to arrange for her to be gang raped as well as putting people on a flight in fear and danger, deserves a very long time in the clink.

    She was trapped with this guy making threats for hours and then had to live with the fear that his threats and knowledge were backed up and she was in danger after they landed.

    I see absolutely no problem with Philp or anyone demanding a review.
    You can only request a review, I think. You can't demand one.
    Well luckily I’m the one demanding one and Philp is just “urging” one. Semantics.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,153
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Good afternoon

    As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position

    It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

    How many times have I said “universities are doomed”

    I’m right. Yet again. I’m always right. Basically we should call the site Leonisright.com
    Oddly hundreds of thousands of kids will be getting good news tomorrow and heading of to uni in a few weeks.
    No signs of doom yet, old man. Financial pressures relate almost entirely to inflation eroding the capped tuition fees.
    But hey, you think you are always right about everything. If only there was a three word summary of that?
    What three words?
    Leon is right about university education to a very large degree. I graduated into the firestorm of the financial crisis, I had to work in a Topshop/Topman for 6 months before I found a better job and even that was barely an improvement, it took me almost a year to land my first real job in software development. However, I knew at the time that "this too shall pass" and I would eventually find a good career role and start building myself a real life.

    This batch of graduates who aren't in vocational degrees or going down the standard academic pathway of a masters degree to delay the inevitable don't have that comfort. The market for juniors/associates/graduates has been irrevocably altered by AI in almost every white collar/desk based job. It means the competition for service jobs in big cities is insane now, in a few months we're going to once again hear about barista etc... jobs that get 2000 applications just as we did in 2008-2010 but this time those young people have no reason to believe that "this too shall pass". There is no guarantee of a career role for them where you can sit behind a desk in front of a monitor for 35h per week and pull in a half decent starter salary then build it into a career that enables you to have a good lifestyle. Companies just aren't hiring for those jobs like they used to, a chosen few with good connections and the ability to get introductions will find a way in but everyone else is, sadly, in big trouble.

    My advice to them is to think about starting a wine bar, food truck, or some other such service oriented career path because that white collar desk job just doesn't seem realistic for this generation of graduates.
    Leon is probably right that the university sector is doomed on the scale it now is. Probably a good thing. Despite AI and all that, there will be three always OK university sectors:

    Specific qualification towards a particular employment/vocational end. (This is large and shows little sign of vanishing, especially in medical related stuff.)

    Actually loving the stuff and wanting to do it for personal development, though it's good to keep an eye on the pragmatics of it as well. We need a few students of Elamite philology and early modern Basque poetry but not billions.

    The new stuff, yet to be discerned mostly, that will arise out of and after the AI revolution.


    But real money should go into local FE whose work is undervalued.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,897
    The Nottingham area seems to be the hottest place today. It's still around 30 there, compared to 23 in London atm.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801
    edited August 13
    kinabalu said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/618f07cb-3cd8-42ff-af63-29118d305cbe

    UK porn site traffic plunges as age verification rules take effect

    Pornhub loses more than 1mn visitors in two weeks after Online Safety Act comes into force

    Big win for the OSA. We should see a boost to productivity.
    More like big boost for VPN companies, who are all foreign owned. Great for the economies of a number of Eastern European countries.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,881
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics

    Coincidentally, just been discussing (as you do) the frequent occurrence of the word "Camperdown" here and there, including India. Turns out it was a famous sea battle in which Dundonian admiral Adam Duncan well and truly duffed up the Dutch. A formidable fellow - 6'4" in his stockinged feet - big lad for the 18th C. One of many Scots to distinguish himself back in the day when the empire was being established. There is still an HMS Duncan in the fleet - Type 45 frigate,
    Admiral Lord Thomas Cochrane is definitely another Scots hero we should know more about. Not only his heroism in the French Revolutionary Wars and Napoleonic war but his vital role in the independence of the Spanish Empire in South America. Crazy guy, crazy life.
    Still represented in the Chilean Navy (rather appropriately, perhaps, by an ex-RN Duke-class ship):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73yJ90-j3R8
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,897
    Northern Superchargers needed 5 from the final ball v Southern Brave and they got a 6 to win.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/live/c1devggwl0nt
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,506
    Leon said:

    We should make really fat people on benefits go out and pick up all the litter. Win win

    Make them go out an pick vegetables, no risk of them eating the produce.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,847
    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics

    Coincidentally, just been discussing (as you do) the frequent occurrence of the word "Camperdown" here and there, including India. Turns out it was a famous sea battle in which Dundonian admiral Adam Duncan well and truly duffed up the Dutch. A formidable fellow - 6'4" in his stockinged feet - big lad for the 18th C. One of many Scots to distinguish himself back in the day when the empire was being established. There is still an HMS Duncan in the fleet - Type 45 frigate,
    Admiral Lord Thomas Cochrane is definitely another Scots hero we should know more about. Not only his heroism in the French Revolutionary Wars and Napoleonic war but his vital role in the independence of the Spanish Empire in South America. Crazy guy, crazy life.
    Still represented in the Chilean Navy (rather appropriately, perhaps, by an ex-RN Duke-class ship):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73yJ90-j3R8
    Absolute blinder of a life though, would rather Netflix did a big set of series covering him through his life than the Windsors one they did.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,079
    edited August 13
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    An amusing young man brandishing a gold chocolate coin from Fortnum and Mason just accosted me in the Royal Exchange, engaged me in a discussion of vortices and the aethereal plane, and then said “you’re like a God”

    This literally and truly just happened. The Simulation Theory grows evermore salient

    Clearly the sun is well over the yardarm wherever you are today...
    Totally sober. As was he

    It was one of the most entertaining if surreal conversations of my life

    He was about 23, he came out of Fortnum and Mason (in the Royal Exchange) brandishing his gold chocolate coin and he came up to me and said

    “I’ve just been given this gold coin by the people in there, I’ve no idea why, but perhaps this explains why I felt compelled to go in”

    I realised he was larking about in a surreal way, so I said “maybe this shop acts as a kind of vortex, so you had no choice”

    He said

    “Aha! So you know all about the vortex!”

    “Yes, of course, I was a professor of Vortices in Oslo”

    “That very interesting, I’m hoping to study maelstroms”

    Etc etc. Honestly. This went on for ten minutes as we both tried to outdo each other with surrealism and as we tried not to laugh. Then I bade him goodbye and he said he was going to look me up on his “special aethereal app”

    You don’t get that in Newent
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,187
    edited August 13
    Andy_JS said:

    The Nottingham area seems to be the hottest place today. It's still around 30 there, compared to 23 in London atm.

    Well over 30C in the Flatlands of Yorkshire/Lincolnshire/Nottinghamshire this afternoon. Bit hot for me, but at least it wasn't 40C (as per 2022)...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,881
    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics

    Coincidentally, just been discussing (as you do) the frequent occurrence of the word "Camperdown" here and there, including India. Turns out it was a famous sea battle in which Dundonian admiral Adam Duncan well and truly duffed up the Dutch. A formidable fellow - 6'4" in his stockinged feet - big lad for the 18th C. One of many Scots to distinguish himself back in the day when the empire was being established. There is still an HMS Duncan in the fleet - Type 45 frigate,
    Admiral Lord Thomas Cochrane is definitely another Scots hero we should know more about. Not only his heroism in the French Revolutionary Wars and Napoleonic war but his vital role in the independence of the Spanish Empire in South America. Crazy guy, crazy life.
    Still represented in the Chilean Navy (rather appropriately, perhaps, by an ex-RN Duke-class ship):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73yJ90-j3R8
    Absolute blinder of a life though, would rather Netflix did a big set of series covering him through his life than the Windsors one they did.
    His house isn't open to the public IIRC but one can see something of it from outside - it's in the burgh of Culross which is something of a National Trust of Scotland flagship.

    https://www.nts.org.uk/visit/places/culross
  • eekeek Posts: 30,899

    Andy_JS said:

    "Times Radio
    @TimesRadio

    “It's the gentlemanly thing to do.” Reform UK deputy leader @TiceRichard backs more private groups of men patrolling the streets to protect women “on a Neighbourhood Watch-style basis within the bounds of the law”."

    https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/1955191845484453915

    What could possibly go wrong?
    Where exactly are the streets dangerous.

    Last weekend I was out in both Liverpool and Halifax and both were perfectly safe everywhere we went...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,505
    Leon said:

    We should make really fat people on benefits go out and pick up all the litter. Win win

    Ooh me knees! Ooh me back! I can envisage a f*** load of big compo claims on the horizon.

    Next.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,709
    edited August 13
    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Philp again.

    "Shadow Home Secretary Chris Philp has urged a review of the 15-month jail term handed to a wealthy recruitment boss who hurled death threats and racist abuse at cabin crew. Salman Iftikhar, 37, was flying first class from London Heathrow to Lahore when he told Virgin Atlantic stewardess Angie Walsh she would be dragged from her hotel room, gang raped and set alight. Philp has written to Attorney General Lord Hermer, arguing the sentence was “unduly lenient”, urging him to consider referring the case to the Court of Appeal for an increase."

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/man-threatened-british-airways-staff-heathrow-sentence-review-b1242622.html

    That strikes me as a bit of a twattish thing to do. The last thing we need is political interference in individual sentences.
    The Unduly Lenient Sentencing Scheme was set up precisely so members of the public can ask for review. I’m assuming you read what he did and surprised you don’t think that absolutely terrorising an air stewardess - that he knew where she lived and which hotel in Pakistan she would be staying in and that he had the power to arrange for her to be gang raped as well as putting people on a flight in fear and danger, deserves a very long time in the clink.

    She was trapped with this guy making threats for hours and then had to live with the fear that his threats and knowledge were backed up and she was in danger after they landed.

    I see absolutely no problem with Philp or anyone demanding a review.
    You can only request a review, I think. You can't demand one.
    Well luckily I’m the one demanding one and Philp is just “urging” one. Semantics.
    Just a technical correction in case people were thinking they could actually demand a review. Your main point is not effected.

    The perp/crime does sound nasty. But I'd prefer politicians didn't do this. They're going to choose cases to suit their political agenda.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,235
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Times Radio
    @TimesRadio

    “It's the gentlemanly thing to do.” Reform UK deputy leader @TiceRichard backs more private groups of men patrolling the streets to protect women “on a Neighbourhood Watch-style basis within the bounds of the law”."

    https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/1955191845484453915

    What could possibly go wrong?
    Where exactly are the streets dangerous.

    Last weekend I was out in both Liverpool and Halifax and both were perfectly safe everywhere we went...
    Wild West Britain has replaced the EU as the British Right's boundlessly irrational obsession.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,505

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Times Radio
    @TimesRadio

    “It's the gentlemanly thing to do.” Reform UK deputy leader @TiceRichard backs more private groups of men patrolling the streets to protect women “on a Neighbourhood Watch-style basis within the bounds of the law”."

    https://x.com/TimesRadio/status/1955191845484453915

    What could possibly go wrong?
    Where exactly are the streets dangerous.

    Last weekend I was out in both Liverpool and Halifax and both were perfectly safe everywhere we went...
    Wild West Britain has replaced the EU as the British Right's boundlessly irrational obsession.
    From a chocolate box scene of pillar boxes and Morris Minors under the Tories to a dystopian Labour nightmare in just a year is a remarkable decline.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,291
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Carnyx said:

    Slightly puzzled by header.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security

    "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.

    The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.

    The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."

    And this is what I think needs to be done for everyone on unemployment benefits, these are jobs that need doing, they pay the minimum wage so do them. I don't think university graduates or anyone under the age of 25 should be eligible for unemployment benefits, if they can go out and socialise they can work in the field or milk cows in a barn or work in a warehouse. It may not be what they want to do but it's still paid work which is better than sitting at home on the dole.
    The big problem with farming work is the location. I live in a rural area surrounded by farms and if you don't have your own transport, it's impossible to work there. Increasing numbers of young people don't have driving licences because of the cost and insane waiting times for tests.

    We need a wholesale reform of vehicle licencing to deal with that. An easy to get licence (possibly modelled on the motorcycle CBT) for lightweight cars - like the Citroen Ami - would help, plus a scheme to help with financing cars like that for young people living in, or with a job offer in, a rural area.
    Last night I looked at the price of adding a 17 year old boy to my car insurance, 😱😱😱

    I don’t think I’ll be able to afford any shoes for 20 years.

    I may have to set up a go fund me on PB.
    It’ll be cheaper to buy him a small car, than to try and add him to your car’s insurance!
    There was a bit on the Fozcast about young footballers spending £200,000 on a Range Rover and then finding it costs £200,000 in insurance, which is priced on the off-chance they have an accident while giving Leo Messi a lift home from the training ground.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSt0NACu5sU&t=461s
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,709

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/618f07cb-3cd8-42ff-af63-29118d305cbe

    UK porn site traffic plunges as age verification rules take effect

    Pornhub loses more than 1mn visitors in two weeks after Online Safety Act comes into force

    Big win for the OSA. We should see a boost to productivity.
    More like big boost for VPN companies, who are all foreign owned. Great for the economies of a number of Eastern European countries.
    VPN yada yada. Fact is, there'll be fewer men and boys watching porn because some friction has been introduced into the access protocols. A good thing imo.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,505
    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    An amusing young man brandishing a gold chocolate coin from Fortnum and Mason just accosted me in the Royal Exchange, engaged me in a discussion of vortices and the aethereal plane, and then said “you’re like a God”

    This literally and truly just happened. The Simulation Theory grows evermore salient

    Clearly the sun is well over the yardarm wherever you are today...
    Totally sober. As was he

    It was one of the most entertaining if surreal conversations of my life

    He was about 23, he came out of Fortnum and Mason (in the Royal Exchange) brandishing his gold chocolate coin and he came up to me and said

    “I’ve just been given this gold coin by the people in there, I’ve no idea why, but perhaps this explains why I felt compelled to go in”

    I realised he was larking about in a surreal way, so I said “maybe this shop acts as a kind of vortex, so you had no choice”

    He said

    “Aha! So you know all about the vortex!”

    “Yes, of course, I was a professor of Vortices in Oslo”

    “That very interesting, I’m hoping to study maelstroms”

    Etc etc. Honestly. This went on for ten minutes as we both tried to outdo each other with surrealism and as we tried not to laugh. Then I bade him goodbye and he said he was going to look me up on his “special aethereal app”

    You don’t get that in Newent
    What a pair of pseud queens!

    You wouldn't catch that fellow who works for the Speccie engaging in such woke banter.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,104
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics

    There was a piece in the Guardian a couple of days ago relating to Scotlands role in slavery and the slave trade.

    And no, it wasn't noble opposition!
    If it's the piece I'm thinking of, it's tied in to a Feastival Fringe event - like almost everything in the Graun on Scotland at the moment (always the case in [edit] August). It's piggybacked onto the recent report for Edinburgh University, but I don't think the author was involved in that. The actual Graun report on that was interesting but unsurprising.

    They've ben discussing slavery and Scotland for *decades* now, ditto such things as the various views on human diversity held by anatomists at different times. Very interesting. As it happened I did some research on this question in one seaport when volunteering for a cultural organization and the more I dug the more I realised how complex it all was. One key element was that much of it worked through the structure of the British Empire - prize money, trading profits, etc. from naval officers and administrators out in the Caribbean but ultimately stemming from slavery wealth one way or another. Not just the direct trade transactions with the plantations, though those were important too.

    And there was in fact a lot of 'noble opposition' - the local equivalent of the Quakers and Clapham lot down south.
    You're right of course; the whole thing's very complex. How can one 'blame' naval officers for 'taking part' slave trading. It's all very well taking a high-minded attitude to 'only following orders' when one hasn't got a wife and family to support, but under those circumstances things get complicated.
    Well, one thinks of what hjappened if the naval officers etc. captured a French slave trader (depending very much on the date what happened to the cargo), or a French vessel full of slave-grown sugar, or about the local professionals and agents who processed the sales in the prize courts whether at home or in the Windies and took their cut ...

    And then the money comes back home when they retire or their heirs inherit, and so on.

    I believe quite a few of the nice stone villas in my toon were financed, one way or another, through the trade. Suspect the rather nice civic buildings too.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,153
    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Philp again.

    "Shadow Home Secretary Chris Philp has urged a review of the 15-month jail term handed to a wealthy recruitment boss who hurled death threats and racist abuse at cabin crew. Salman Iftikhar, 37, was flying first class from London Heathrow to Lahore when he told Virgin Atlantic stewardess Angie Walsh she would be dragged from her hotel room, gang raped and set alight. Philp has written to Attorney General Lord Hermer, arguing the sentence was “unduly lenient”, urging him to consider referring the case to the Court of Appeal for an increase."

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/man-threatened-british-airways-staff-heathrow-sentence-review-b1242622.html

    That strikes me as a bit of a twattish thing to do. The last thing we need is political interference in individual sentences.
    The Unduly Lenient Sentencing Scheme was set up precisely so members of the public can ask for review. I’m assuming you read what he did and surprised you don’t think that absolutely terrorising an air stewardess - that he knew where she lived and which hotel in Pakistan she would be staying in and that he had the power to arrange for her to be gang raped as well as putting people on a flight in fear and danger, deserves a very long time in the clink.

    She was trapped with this guy making threats for hours and then had to live with the fear that his threats and knowledge were backed up and she was in danger after they landed.

    I see absolutely no problem with Philp or anyone demanding a review.
    You can only request a review, I think. You can't demand one.
    Indeed you can't demand. Every case that passes has to go to the Court of Appeal, Criminal Division which is a busy place. The AG has power to refer. And plenty that do get referred don't see an increase. The CA (CD) is extremely slow to interfere with judicial discretion, just as it is extremely slow to interfere with the decision of a jury, as Lucy Letby campaigners may spend the next few years finding out.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,376
    malcolmg said:

    viewcode said:

    At the risk of being smug, the only degree I did where I didn't get a job before the end of the course was the first one, and the gap was something like six weeks. :(

    Never went to Uni and never been out of work in 55 years.
    Nor me @malcolmg
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,343
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/618f07cb-3cd8-42ff-af63-29118d305cbe

    UK porn site traffic plunges as age verification rules take effect

    Pornhub loses more than 1mn visitors in two weeks after Online Safety Act comes into force

    Big win for the OSA. We should see a boost to productivity.
    More like big boost for VPN companies, who are all foreign owned. Great for the economies of a number of Eastern European countries.
    VPN yada yada. Fact is, there'll be fewer men and boys watching porn because some friction has been introduced into the access protocols. A good thing imo.
    Not an easy thing to measure, but if I were to bet on the number of people accessing such sites iths month vs last month, I’d say that the number will be pretty much identical.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,709
    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    An amusing young man brandishing a gold chocolate coin from Fortnum and Mason just accosted me in the Royal Exchange, engaged me in a discussion of vortices and the aethereal plane, and then said “you’re like a God”

    This literally and truly just happened. The Simulation Theory grows evermore salient

    Clearly the sun is well over the yardarm wherever you are today...
    Totally sober. As was he

    It was one of the most entertaining if surreal conversations of my life

    He was about 23, he came out of Fortnum and Mason (in the Royal Exchange) brandishing his gold chocolate coin and he came up to me and said

    “I’ve just been given this gold coin by the people in there, I’ve no idea why, but perhaps this explains why I felt compelled to go in”

    I realised he was larking about in a surreal way, so I said “maybe this shop acts as a kind of vortex, so you had no choice”

    He said

    “Aha! So you know all about the vortex!”

    “Yes, of course, I was a professor of Vortices in Oslo”

    “That very interesting, I’m hoping to study maelstroms”

    Etc etc. Honestly. This went on for ten minutes as we both tried to outdo each other with surrealism and as we tried not to laugh. Then I bade him goodbye and he said he was going to look me up on his “special aethereal app”

    You don’t get that in Newent
    One is reminded of Cook and Moore at their finest.

    Seems a shame there was no audience.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,847
    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Philp again.

    "Shadow Home Secretary Chris Philp has urged a review of the 15-month jail term handed to a wealthy recruitment boss who hurled death threats and racist abuse at cabin crew. Salman Iftikhar, 37, was flying first class from London Heathrow to Lahore when he told Virgin Atlantic stewardess Angie Walsh she would be dragged from her hotel room, gang raped and set alight. Philp has written to Attorney General Lord Hermer, arguing the sentence was “unduly lenient”, urging him to consider referring the case to the Court of Appeal for an increase."

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/man-threatened-british-airways-staff-heathrow-sentence-review-b1242622.html

    That strikes me as a bit of a twattish thing to do. The last thing we need is political interference in individual sentences.
    The Unduly Lenient Sentencing Scheme was set up precisely so members of the public can ask for review. I’m assuming you read what he did and surprised you don’t think that absolutely terrorising an air stewardess - that he knew where she lived and which hotel in Pakistan she would be staying in and that he had the power to arrange for her to be gang raped as well as putting people on a flight in fear and danger, deserves a very long time in the clink.

    She was trapped with this guy making threats for hours and then had to live with the fear that his threats and knowledge were backed up and she was in danger after they landed.

    I see absolutely no problem with Philp or anyone demanding a review.
    You can only request a review, I think. You can't demand one.
    Well luckily I’m the one demanding one and Philp is just “urging” one. Semantics.
    Just a technical correction in case people were thinking they could actually demand a review. Your main point is not effected.

    The perp/crime does sound nasty. But I'd prefer politicians didn't do this. They're going to choose cases to suit their political agenda.

    Doesn’t seem that MPs are using this so far to suit political agendas.


    Murder of 80 year old - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yg4n4kpyyo

    Southport murders - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz0l9mg7173o

    Murder of Arthur Laibinjo-Hughes https://uk.news.yahoo.com/arthur-labinjo-hughes-mp-calls-162127167.html
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,897
    "Live facial recognition to be expanded across the UK with more police forces using the technology"

    https://www.itv.com/news/2025-08-12/live-facial-recognition-to-be-expanded-for-neighbourhood-policing
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,847
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/618f07cb-3cd8-42ff-af63-29118d305cbe

    UK porn site traffic plunges as age verification rules take effect

    Pornhub loses more than 1mn visitors in two weeks after Online Safety Act comes into force

    Big win for the OSA. We should see a boost to productivity.
    More like big boost for VPN companies, who are all foreign owned. Great for the economies of a number of Eastern European countries.
    VPN yada yada. Fact is, there'll be fewer men and boys watching porn because some friction has been introduced into the access protocols. A good thing imo.
    You need a bit of friction when watching porn but not too much.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,709
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/618f07cb-3cd8-42ff-af63-29118d305cbe

    UK porn site traffic plunges as age verification rules take effect

    Pornhub loses more than 1mn visitors in two weeks after Online Safety Act comes into force

    Big win for the OSA. We should see a boost to productivity.
    More like big boost for VPN companies, who are all foreign owned. Great for the economies of a number of Eastern European countries.
    VPN yada yada. Fact is, there'll be fewer men and boys watching porn because some friction has been introduced into the access protocols. A good thing imo.
    Not an easy thing to measure, but if I were to bet on the number of people accessing such sites iths month vs last month, I’d say that the number will be pretty much identical.
    Making an activity harder to do leads to fewer people doing it.

    Why should viewing porn be an exception to this?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,291
    Why it takes 25 years to improve a road up north. Three minutes of a very gaunt-looking Dominic Cummings. I hope he is healthier than he appears.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Wtxsi2VVF-c
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,360
    Andy_JS said:

    Northern Superchargers needed 5 from the final ball v Southern Brave and they got a 6 to win.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/live/c1devggwl0nt

    The ball before was a wide but wasn't given, so a sort of justice in the end
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801
    edited August 13
    McMurdock says in a letter that the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards has cleared me of any wrongdoing.

    https://x.com/JMcMurdockMP/status/1955653510445547529
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,343
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/618f07cb-3cd8-42ff-af63-29118d305cbe

    UK porn site traffic plunges as age verification rules take effect

    Pornhub loses more than 1mn visitors in two weeks after Online Safety Act comes into force

    Big win for the OSA. We should see a boost to productivity.
    More like big boost for VPN companies, who are all foreign owned. Great for the economies of a number of Eastern European countries.
    VPN yada yada. Fact is, there'll be fewer men and boys watching porn because some friction has been introduced into the access protocols. A good thing imo.
    Not an easy thing to measure, but if I were to bet on the number of people accessing such sites iths month vs last month, I’d say that the number will be pretty much identical.
    Making an activity harder to do leads to fewer people doing it.

    Why should viewing porn be an exception to this?
    It’s the online equivalent of the Chancellor putting 10p on a pack of cigarettes in the Budget.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,709
    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Philp again.

    "Shadow Home Secretary Chris Philp has urged a review of the 15-month jail term handed to a wealthy recruitment boss who hurled death threats and racist abuse at cabin crew. Salman Iftikhar, 37, was flying first class from London Heathrow to Lahore when he told Virgin Atlantic stewardess Angie Walsh she would be dragged from her hotel room, gang raped and set alight. Philp has written to Attorney General Lord Hermer, arguing the sentence was “unduly lenient”, urging him to consider referring the case to the Court of Appeal for an increase."

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/man-threatened-british-airways-staff-heathrow-sentence-review-b1242622.html

    That strikes me as a bit of a twattish thing to do. The last thing we need is political interference in individual sentences.
    The Unduly Lenient Sentencing Scheme was set up precisely so members of the public can ask for review. I’m assuming you read what he did and surprised you don’t think that absolutely terrorising an air stewardess - that he knew where she lived and which hotel in Pakistan she would be staying in and that he had the power to arrange for her to be gang raped as well as putting people on a flight in fear and danger, deserves a very long time in the clink.

    She was trapped with this guy making threats for hours and then had to live with the fear that his threats and knowledge were backed up and she was in danger after they landed.

    I see absolutely no problem with Philp or anyone demanding a review.
    You can only request a review, I think. You can't demand one.
    Well luckily I’m the one demanding one and Philp is just “urging” one. Semantics.
    Just a technical correction in case people were thinking they could actually demand a review. Your main point is not effected.

    The perp/crime does sound nasty. But I'd prefer politicians didn't do this. They're going to choose cases to suit their political agenda.
    Doesn’t seem that MPs are using this so far to suit political agendas.

    Murder of 80 year old - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yg4n4kpyyo

    Southport murders - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz0l9mg7173o

    Murder of Arthur Laibinjo-Hughes https://uk.news.yahoo.com/arthur-labinjo-hughes-mp-calls-162127167.html
    I'd say that rather shows they are.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,709
    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/618f07cb-3cd8-42ff-af63-29118d305cbe

    UK porn site traffic plunges as age verification rules take effect

    Pornhub loses more than 1mn visitors in two weeks after Online Safety Act comes into force

    Big win for the OSA. We should see a boost to productivity.
    More like big boost for VPN companies, who are all foreign owned. Great for the economies of a number of Eastern European countries.
    VPN yada yada. Fact is, there'll be fewer men and boys watching porn because some friction has been introduced into the access protocols. A good thing imo.
    You need a bit of friction when watching porn but not too much.
    I knew somebody would and it's no shock that it's you.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801
    edited August 13
    Can this "walk and talk" trend please die...turns on Sky and they are bloody doing it for an interview with Steve Smith.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,079
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    An amusing young man brandishing a gold chocolate coin from Fortnum and Mason just accosted me in the Royal Exchange, engaged me in a discussion of vortices and the aethereal plane, and then said “you’re like a God”

    This literally and truly just happened. The Simulation Theory grows evermore salient

    Clearly the sun is well over the yardarm wherever you are today...
    Totally sober. As was he

    It was one of the most entertaining if surreal conversations of my life

    He was about 23, he came out of Fortnum and Mason (in the Royal Exchange) brandishing his gold chocolate coin and he came up to me and said

    “I’ve just been given this gold coin by the people in there, I’ve no idea why, but perhaps this explains why I felt compelled to go in”

    I realised he was larking about in a surreal way, so I said “maybe this shop acts as a kind of vortex, so you had no choice”

    He said

    “Aha! So you know all about the vortex!”

    “Yes, of course, I was a professor of Vortices in Oslo”

    “That very interesting, I’m hoping to study maelstroms”

    Etc etc. Honestly. This went on for ten minutes as we both tried to outdo each other with surrealism and as we tried not to laugh. Then I bade him goodbye and he said he was going to look me up on his “special aethereal app”

    You don’t get that in Newent
    One is reminded of Cook and Moore at their finest.

    Seems a shame there was no audience.
    There was. It was him and me. We were the audience of our own impromptu comedy skit, and we both knew that, so we both went for it

    I will never forget him, he will never forget me. Oddly heartening
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801
    On topic...ColdFusion just released a video on jobs.

    Gen Z Graduates Are in Crisis
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVc2ZhECTMg
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,121
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/618f07cb-3cd8-42ff-af63-29118d305cbe

    UK porn site traffic plunges as age verification rules take effect

    Pornhub loses more than 1mn visitors in two weeks after Online Safety Act comes into force

    Big win for the OSA. We should see a boost to productivity.
    More like big boost for VPN companies, who are all foreign owned. Great for the economies of a number of Eastern European countries.
    VPN yada yada. Fact is, there'll be fewer men and boys watching porn because some friction has been introduced into the access protocols. A good thing imo.
    Not an easy thing to measure, but if I were to bet on the number of people accessing such sites iths month vs last month, I’d say that the number will be pretty much identical.
    Making an activity harder to do leads to fewer people doing it.

    Why should viewing porn be an exception to this?
    Because men seeing naked women (or men according to your predilection) is one of the strongest imperatives in all of human history. I remember sneaking magazines out my dad's stash as a young lad if I thought I could get them back before he'd notice. There's a whole galaxy of porn websites out there that have no ID checks because they have no UK presence.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,357

    McMurdock says in a letter that the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards has cleared me of any wrongdoing.

    https://x.com/JMcMurdockMP/status/1955653510445547529

    Ex Reform group nearly as big as the Reform group now. And makes his decision to quit the party 'after specialist advice' bit more interesting
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,291
    edited August 13
    Andy_JS said:

    The Nottingham area seems to be the hottest place today. It's still around 30 there, compared to 23 in London atm.

    There are calls for a 30°C limit on temperatures at work. It will be interesting to see how such a limit might interact with WFH.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,078
    Leon said:

    The idea beloved of some Nats, that the Scots weren’t really eager participants in the British Empire, is one of the greatest triumphs of self-delusion in all modern politics

    The British Empire was often Global Scotland.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,709
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/618f07cb-3cd8-42ff-af63-29118d305cbe

    UK porn site traffic plunges as age verification rules take effect

    Pornhub loses more than 1mn visitors in two weeks after Online Safety Act comes into force

    Big win for the OSA. We should see a boost to productivity.
    More like big boost for VPN companies, who are all foreign owned. Great for the economies of a number of Eastern European countries.
    VPN yada yada. Fact is, there'll be fewer men and boys watching porn because some friction has been introduced into the access protocols. A good thing imo.
    Not an easy thing to measure, but if I were to bet on the number of people accessing such sites iths month vs last month, I’d say that the number will be pretty much identical.
    Making an activity harder to do leads to fewer people doing it.

    Why should viewing porn be an exception to this?
    It’s the online equivalent of the Chancellor putting 10p on a pack of cigarettes in the Budget.
    If you want that (imperfect) comparison it's like a price hike AND having to produce an "I'm a drug addict" card to complete the purchase.

    Anyway, we'll see who's right. There will be a consensus on the matter fairly soon.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,079
    Stereodog said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/618f07cb-3cd8-42ff-af63-29118d305cbe

    UK porn site traffic plunges as age verification rules take effect

    Pornhub loses more than 1mn visitors in two weeks after Online Safety Act comes into force

    Big win for the OSA. We should see a boost to productivity.
    More like big boost for VPN companies, who are all foreign owned. Great for the economies of a number of Eastern European countries.
    VPN yada yada. Fact is, there'll be fewer men and boys watching porn because some friction has been introduced into the access protocols. A good thing imo.
    Not an easy thing to measure, but if I were to bet on the number of people accessing such sites iths month vs last month, I’d say that the number will be pretty much identical.
    Making an activity harder to do leads to fewer people doing it.

    Why should viewing porn be an exception to this?
    Because men seeing naked women (or men according to your predilection) is one of the strongest imperatives in all of human history. I remember sneaking magazines out my dad's stash as a young lad if I thought I could get them back before he'd notice. There's a whole galaxy of porn websites out there that have no ID checks because they have no UK presence.
    Lefties don't like humans taking pleasure in anything, they want us all to suffer in Net Zero Joylessness, while living in special Green Levy Milibanderite Misery-pods

    See the Anti-Sex League in Orwell's 1984
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,291

    On topic...ColdFusion just released a video on jobs.

    Gen Z Graduates Are in Crisis
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVc2ZhECTMg

    America, Australia, Britain, even China. Starmer's got a lot to answer for.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,709
    edited August 13
    Stereodog said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/618f07cb-3cd8-42ff-af63-29118d305cbe

    UK porn site traffic plunges as age verification rules take effect

    Pornhub loses more than 1mn visitors in two weeks after Online Safety Act comes into force

    Big win for the OSA. We should see a boost to productivity.
    More like big boost for VPN companies, who are all foreign owned. Great for the economies of a number of Eastern European countries.
    VPN yada yada. Fact is, there'll be fewer men and boys watching porn because some friction has been introduced into the access protocols. A good thing imo.
    Not an easy thing to measure, but if I were to bet on the number of people accessing such sites iths month vs last month, I’d say that the number will be pretty much identical.
    Making an activity harder to do leads to fewer people doing it.

    Why should viewing porn be an exception to this?
    Because men seeing naked women (or men according to your predilection) is one of the strongest imperatives in all of human history. I remember sneaking magazines out my dad's stash as a young lad if I thought I could get them back before he'd notice. There's a whole galaxy of porn websites out there that have no ID checks because they have no UK presence.
    But there's plenty of borderline not that fussed users. They'll stop. Also it's nonsense that ALL teenage boys are superhorny tech literates who will be completely unmoved by this change. All in all it will lead to a significant drop in this activity. You can take that to the wa ... to the bank.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,275

    Acyn
    @Acyn

    Reporter: Your federalization of the police has a 30 day limit unless congress acts to extend it. Are you talking to congress about extending it or do you believe 30 days is sufficient?

    Trump: If it's a national emergency, we can do it without congress.. I don't want to call a national emergency. If I have to, I will

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1955662939723329747
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,078
    Stereodog said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://www.ft.com/content/618f07cb-3cd8-42ff-af63-29118d305cbe

    UK porn site traffic plunges as age verification rules take effect

    Pornhub loses more than 1mn visitors in two weeks after Online Safety Act comes into force

    Big win for the OSA. We should see a boost to productivity.
    More like big boost for VPN companies, who are all foreign owned. Great for the economies of a number of Eastern European countries.
    VPN yada yada. Fact is, there'll be fewer men and boys watching porn because some friction has been introduced into the access protocols. A good thing imo.
    Not an easy thing to measure, but if I were to bet on the number of people accessing such sites iths month vs last month, I’d say that the number will be pretty much identical.
    Making an activity harder to do leads to fewer people doing it.

    Why should viewing porn be an exception to this?
    Because men seeing naked women (or men according to your predilection) is one of the strongest imperatives in all of human history.
    You ever seen a grown man naked?
Sign In or Register to comment.