Gizza job – politicalbetting.com

Comments

• Nigelb Posts: 80,168

  August 13

  Good afternoon.

  0
• MaxPB Posts: 40,506

  August 13

  Yup, this is a disaster of the government's own making too, they didn't need to out employers NI up and hammer jobs while putting up inflation. That was their choice.

  3
• Sandpit Posts: 56,343

  August 13 edited August 13

  Well if the cost of jobs goes up, then the supply of jobs goes down

  1
• Nigelb Posts: 80,168

  August 13

  This X thread should give PBers enough material to keep the discussion going.
  
  If future job markets will be awful for young people, we will have to start employing them not because they deserve the work, but because of our duties to them. We may owe it to our children to create complex new networks of patronage and obligation, in the medieval style.
  https://x.com/s8mb/status/1955547223607091634
  

  0
• Nigelb Posts: 80,168

  August 13 edited August 13

  MaxPB said:

  Yup, this is a disaster of the government's own making too, they didn't need to out employers NI up and hammer jobs while putting up inflation. That was their choice.

  At least they haven't yet fired whomever is compiling the job stats.

  4
• Nigelb Posts: 80,168

  August 13

  Sandpit said:

  Well if the cost of jobs goes up, then the supply of jobs goes down

  What's going on in the US, then ?

  1
• FrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801

  August 13

  I am sure the economic situation / NI rises have been a driver of this, but I also wonder how much the rise of LLMs is also driving this. Everybody use them to do the applications, so companies get inundated, so use AI to filter them and then use more rounds of interviews. Which all adds friction to getting from applying for jobs to actually getting ones.
  
  Corporate America have gone mad for this where they are using 5+ rounds of interviews spread out over many weeks even for fairly low level jobs.

  0
• MaxPB Posts: 40,506

  August 13

  Nigelb said:

  MaxPB said:

  Yup, this is a disaster of the government's own making too, they didn't need to out employers NI up and hammer jobs while putting up inflation. That was their choice.

  At least they haven't yet fired whomever is compiling the job stats.

  Tbf, they'd be well within their rights to do so given how poor a job the ONS are doing. The LFS says jobs are at record levels the HMRC RTI says jobs are falling. One of these is based on actual data, the other is based on a clearly incorrect survey response model. The government should have cleaned house at the ONS 5 years ago but no one has the cojones to take on the public sector unions.

  1
• Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,376

  August 13 edited August 13

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  2
• Nigelb Posts: 80,168

  August 13

  MaxPB said:

  Nigelb said:

  MaxPB said:

  Yup, this is a disaster of the government's own making too, they didn't need to out employers NI up and hammer jobs while putting up inflation. That was their choice.

  At least they haven't yet fired whomever is compiling the job stats.

  Tbf, they'd be well within their rights to do so given how poor a job the ONS are doing. The LFS says jobs are at record levels the HMRC RTI says jobs are falling. One of these is based on actual data, the other is based on a clearly incorrect survey response model. The government should have cleaned house at the ONS 5 years ago but no one has the cojones to take on the public sector unions.

  Sorry, "restored new leadership".
  https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1955324003599491570

  0
• Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,376

  August 13

  I thought this may interest our forum especially @Sunil_Prasannan:
  
  On Monday my wife and I caught the 9.58am train out of Colwyn Bay, changing at Newton Le Willows to the Trans Pennine Liverpool – Newcastle service to York
  
  On arrival in York we caught a taxi to the Sidings Hotel and Restaurant, located directly alongside the 4 tracks of the Kings Cross- Edinburgh line
  
  The accommodation comprises converted Pullman coaches with en suites, and we had the ‘Flying Scotsman’ cabin with our own deck alongside the track
  
  The restaurant is another converted Pullman coach and there are open sitting areas and another function room
  
  It was a trainspotters paradise and amazing train memorabilia and quite an experience
  
  The staff were rather inattentive but excellent at dinner
  
  It is for someone looking for something very different though it is not 5 star and I expect in winter the cabins would be rather cold
  
  Anyway my 85 year old wife took to it like a duck to water, with her camera phone working overtime and taking great delight at waving at the passing trains and the drivers sounding their horns and waving back
  
  I really did not expect at 85 for my wife to become an enthusiastic trainspotter
  
  I would just comment that the Trans Pennine Railway is undergoing enormous construction which to be fair was initiated by the last conservative government but many more billions and years of construction will be required to fill in the large gaps and change the stations to accommodate the new line
  
  We returned home yesterday
  
  *The Sidings Hotel and Restaurant York is online for those interested in something quite unique

  3
• FrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801

  August 13 edited August 13

  MaxPB said:

  Nigelb said:

  MaxPB said:

  Yup, this is a disaster of the government's own making too, they didn't need to out employers NI up and hammer jobs while putting up inflation. That was their choice.

  At least they haven't yet fired whomever is compiling the job stats.

  Tbf, they'd be well within their rights to do so given how poor a job the ONS are doing. The LFS says jobs are at record levels the HMRC RTI says jobs are falling. One of these is based on actual data, the other is based on a clearly incorrect survey response model. The government should have cleaned house at the ONS 5 years ago but no one has the cojones to take on the public sector unions.

  UK solution to ONS management is doing a bad job, we need more management.

  2
• MaxPB Posts: 40,506

  August 13

  FrancisUrquhart said:

  MaxPB said:

  Nigelb said:

  MaxPB said:

  Yup, this is a disaster of the government's own making too, they didn't need to out employers NI up and hammer jobs while putting up inflation. That was their choice.

  At least they haven't yet fired whomever is compiling the job stats.

  Tbf, they'd be well within their rights to do so given how poor a job the ONS are doing. The LFS says jobs are at record levels the HMRC RTI says jobs are falling. One of these is based on actual data, the other is based on a clearly incorrect survey response model. The government should have cleaned house at the ONS 5 years ago but no one has the cojones to take on the public sector unions.

  UK solution to ONS management is doing a bad job, we need more management.

  It worked so well for the NHS.

  0
• MattW Posts: 29,119

  August 13 edited August 13

  Ooof. The picture of Zalensky and Merz on the front page of the BBC.
  
  It's like a cat staring down a labrador that is after its dinner. I would think the appearance is unintentional, though.
  
  https://www.bbc.co.uk/

  0
• FrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801

  August 13

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  As Ray Dalio has said the warning lights are flashing.

  0
• SirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,402

  August 13

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  3
• viewcode Posts: 25,546

  August 13

  Nigelb said:

  This X thread should give PBers enough material to keep the discussion going.
  
  If future job markets will be awful for young people, we will have to start employing them not because they deserve the work, but because of our duties to them. We may owe it to our children to create complex new networks of patronage and obligation, in the medieval style.
  https://x.com/s8mb/status/1955547223607091634
  

  The children of the rich will have their interests secured by their wealthy parents, regardless of merit
  The children of the poor will struggle, regardless of merit
  Nothing ever changes.

  0
• Nigelb Posts: 80,168

  August 13

  viewcode said:

  Nigelb said:

  This X thread should give PBers enough material to keep the discussion going.
  
  If future job markets will be awful for young people, we will have to start employing them not because they deserve the work, but because of our duties to them. We may owe it to our children to create complex new networks of patronage and obligation, in the medieval style.
  https://x.com/s8mb/status/1955547223607091634
  

  The children of the rich will have their interests secured by their wealthy parents, regardless of merit
  The children of the poor will struggle, regardless of merit
  Nothing ever changes.

  Some stuff changes, some doesn't.
  Even the rich and the poor occasionally swap places.

  0
• rottenborough Posts: 67,275

  August 13

  Boys from the blackstuff reference?
  
  

  1
• Nigelb Posts: 80,168

  August 13

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  There's a real and immediate question about the pace of technological change, its effects on future employment prospects, and the value of a traditional three year degree.
  Frankly, I'm not sure I'd gamble tens of thousands, and three years of my life on it, if I were a school leaver today.
  

  3
• rottenborough Posts: 67,275

  August 13

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  I left Leeds University forty years ago (gulp) and I was the only one of my mates to get a job straight away. I did comp sci and there was no AI then to block getting a software job!
  
  If it is any help, the rest of my mates with various degrees all got jobs or started further training stuff by the following spring.
  
  Patience is a virtue etc.
  

  1
• TheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,251

  August 13

  rottenborough said:

  Boys from the blackstuff reference?
  
  

  Yay, somebody spotted my subtle reference to that 1980s show.

  1
• Nigelb Posts: 80,168

  August 13

  A reminder that tariffs = bureaucracy, alongside being a tax.
  
  I just had to pay $45 in customs charges for a $58 tablet screen protector. Not all of these were direct tariffs: $17 for "duty tax processing", a Ticketmaster-style processing fee (it's actually the higher of $17 or 2%) charged by DHL when the exporter doesn't eat the tariff.
  https://x.com/ernietedeschi/status/1955419926744928603
  

  0
• MaxPB Posts: 40,506

  August 13

  Nigelb said:

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  There's a real and immediate question about the pace of technological change, its effects on future employment prospects, and the value of a traditional three year degree.
  Frankly, I'm not sure I'd gamble tens of thousands, and three years of my life on it, if I were a school leaver today.
  

  Yeah, my sister was asking me about whether she should put her daughter into code camp this summer as she thinks it might be a good skill to learn. I said do it if you think she might find it fun, not for the skills because coding as a skill is very quickly becoming devalued. It's a great mindset to learn but the actual hard skills behind writing code are just nowhere near as marketable as they were even 3 years ago, especially at entry level.

  0
• Andy_JS Posts: 36,897

  August 13

  If someone supported a big increase in the number of university students, the same person cannot complain about the fact that a university degree is worth less than it used to be.

  2
• wooliedyed Posts: 13,354

  August 13

  TheScreamingEagles said:

  rottenborough said:

  Boys from the blackstuff reference?
  
  

  Yay, somebody spotted my subtle reference to that 1980s show.

  King Theoden when he was a scouse DHSSer

  1
• Cookie Posts: 15,781

  August 13

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  What was her subject?
  I've said before, I think the costs of university for the student are greater than the benefits in most cases. If I was 18 I'd be learning a trade.
  If I had sons I'd be advising them to do the same. It's a bit different with girls though, isn't it? You don't really get many female plumbers or electricians.
  That said, middle daughter has expressed a vague interest in that as a career path, which is vaguely encouraging.

  2
• MaxPB Posts: 40,506

  August 13

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Good luck to her, what kind of roles is she looking for? It's probably not beyond the wit of PB to help make an introduction...

  0
• Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,376

  August 13

  Cookie said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  What was her subject?
  I've said before, I think the costs of university for the student are greater than the benefits in most cases. If I was 18 I'd be learning a trade.
  If I had sons I'd be advising them to do the same. It's a bit different with girls though, isn't it? You don't really get many female plumbers or electricians.
  That said, middle daughter has expressed a vague interest in that as a career path, which is vaguely encouraging.

  Italian language and culture

  1
• MattW Posts: 29,119

  August 13 edited August 13

  Nigelb said:

  A reminder that tariffs = bureaucracy, alongside being a tax.
  
  I just had to pay $45 in customs charges for a $58 tablet screen protector. Not all of these were direct tariffs: $17 for "duty tax processing", a Ticketmaster-style processing fee (it's actually the higher of $17 or 2%) charged by DHL when the exporter doesn't eat the tariff.
  https://x.com/ernietedeschi/status/1955419926744928603
  

  Hmmm. International charges ... will these be falling as we get a bit closer to the EU?
  
  On a similar note, and not much discussed, another one to watch aiui are the surcharges which are going on visas and documents to go to the USA.

  1
• kinabalu Posts: 46,707

  August 13

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  (i) You don't enjoy it, can't get any job with prospects at the end of it, waste of time.
  
  (ii) You love it, the study and the environment, make some great friends and contacts, leads straight into a terrific career that suits you.
  
  Apart from these extremes I think it's hard to ever answer the question "was it worth it?".

  1
• Carnyx Posts: 44,878

  August 13 edited August 13

  Nigelb said:

  A reminder that tariffs = bureaucracy, alongside being a tax.
  
  I just had to pay $45 in customs charges for a $58 tablet screen protector. Not all of these were direct tariffs: $17 for "duty tax processing", a Ticketmaster-style processing fee (it's actually the higher of $17 or 2%) charged by DHL when the exporter doesn't eat the tariff.
  https://x.com/ernietedeschi/status/1955419926744928603
  

  Wasn't just the tariffs but their application to even very small personal orders, that have been a shock on the stoops of Usonia, apparently. HMRC don't charge import duty for small orders (but they do charge VAT, and RM or whoever is the carrier charges a processing fee.
  
  PS: tariffs in the US are not bureaucracy, because Fedex or whoever does it. Apparently. Presumably.

  0
• MattW Posts: 29,119

  August 13 edited August 13

  rottenborough said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  I left Leeds University forty years ago (gulp) and I was the only one of my mates to get a job straight away. I did comp sci and there was no AI then to block getting a software job!
  
  If it is any help, the rest of my mates with various degrees all got jobs or started further training stuff by the following spring.
  
  Patience is a virtue etc.
  

  Interesting.
  
  I was later, and we nearly all had immediate jobs because we were all sponsored on Thin and Thick sandwich courses.
  
  It will be coming back.

  0
• TheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,251

  August 13

  Nigelb said:

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  There's a real and immediate question about the pace of technological change, its effects on future employment prospects, and the value of a traditional three year degree.
  Frankly, I'm not sure I'd gamble tens of thousands, and three years of my life on it, if I were a school leaver today.
  

  I am still encouraging my kids to go to university, but I am more involved on what degrees they should do than my father was, and he was pretty involved, both are likely to do STEM subjects, such as engineering or medicine.
  
  University made me the person I am today, I went to university as this shy, geeky, nerdish kid, the experiences and the lifelong friends I made, I don’t regret it.
  
  Then again I was the last cohort to have their fees paid.

  1
• FrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801

  August 13 edited August 13

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Cookie said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  What was her subject?
  I've said before, I think the costs of university for the student are greater than the benefits in most cases. If I was 18 I'd be learning a trade.
  If I had sons I'd be advising them to do the same. It's a bit different with girls though, isn't it? You don't really get many female plumbers or electricians.
  That said, middle daughter has expressed a vague interest in that as a career path, which is vaguely encouraging.

  Italian language and culture

  I would think mainstream foreign languages are even worse hit than coding from advancements of LLMs. You not need army of translators, all of you need is basically a copy editor to check / tweak.

  1
• PJH Posts: 890

  August 13

  Cookie said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  What was her subject?
  I've said before, I think the costs of university for the student are greater than the benefits in most cases. If I was 18 I'd be learning a trade.
  If I had sons I'd be advising them to do the same. It's a bit different with girls though, isn't it? You don't really get many female plumbers or electricians.
  That said, middle daughter has expressed a vague interest in that as a career path, which is vaguely encouraging.

  I wouldn't worry yet, it has been like this in the past too. I only landed a job in September back in my day (late 80s) what is now despite a 2:1 from Durham. My daughter also took months to get a job with a First from Birmingham, 2 years ago. Patience and persistence will pay!
  

  2
• Carnyx Posts: 44,878

  August 13

  Slightly puzzled by header.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security
  
  "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.
  
  The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.
  
  The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."
  
  

  0
• Nigelb Posts: 80,168

  August 13

  Carnyx said:

  Nigelb said:

  A reminder that tariffs = bureaucracy, alongside being a tax.
  
  I just had to pay $45 in customs charges for a $58 tablet screen protector. Not all of these were direct tariffs: $17 for "duty tax processing", a Ticketmaster-style processing fee (it's actually the higher of $17 or 2%) charged by DHL when the exporter doesn't eat the tariff.
  https://x.com/ernietedeschi/status/1955419926744928603
  

  Wasn't just the tariffs but their application to even very small personal orders, that have been a shock on the stoops of Usonia, apparently. HMRC don't charge import duty for small orders (but they do charge VAT, and RM or whoever is the carrier charges a processing fee.
  
  PS: tariffs in the US are not bureaucracy, because Fedex or whoever does it. Apparently. Presumably.

  A private bureaucracy, enforced by law, is still a bureaucracy.

  0
• MaxPB Posts: 40,506

  August 13

  TheScreamingEagles said:

  Nigelb said:

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  There's a real and immediate question about the pace of technological change, its effects on future employment prospects, and the value of a traditional three year degree.
  Frankly, I'm not sure I'd gamble tens of thousands, and three years of my life on it, if I were a school leaver today.
  

  I am still encouraging my kids to go to university, but I am more involved on what degrees they should do than my father was, and he was pretty involved, both are likely to do STEM subjects, such as engineering or medicine.
  
  University made me the person I am today, I went to university as this shy, geeky, nerdish kid, the experiences and the lifelong friends I made, I don’t regret it.
  
  Then again I was the last cohort to have their fees paid.

  I would personally recommend doing something where it will be difficult to replace humans. Medicine is probably still good for another 10 years and surgery for another 20 years. Engineering of the physical kind will be ok for a while yet too. The issue for the latter is going to be finding somewhere in the UK to get experience. A friend's brother did an electrical engineering degree and traded down to being an electrician because he couldn't find any jobs related to his field for almost 2 years and got sick of working as a barman.

  1
• algarkirk Posts: 15,149

  August 13 edited August 13

  Nigelb said:

  This X thread should give PBers enough material to keep the discussion going.
  
  If future job markets will be awful for young people, we will have to start employing them not because they deserve the work, but because of our duties to them. We may owe it to our children to create complex new networks of patronage and obligation, in the medieval style.
  https://x.com/s8mb/status/1955547223607091634
  

  Among those who can this has always existed and always will. And it is not only about elites. it is also about small family businesses, small trades, ag and fish, and many other fields. In itself it is not wrong, simply the outworking of human nature, but it is always corruptible.
  
  Secondly, if you view the planet, such of it that is above the hunter gatherer/most simple agriculture model, as a global job creation scheme, while not completely true, it has a great deal of explanatory force.
  
  This is why (IMHO) like all earlier developments and innovations AI will not (sorry Leon) lead to fewer jobs in totality.

  0
• Andy_JS Posts: 36,897

  August 13

  If you want a university degree to be worth more, reduce the number of people going to university.

  5
• Nigelb Posts: 80,168

  August 13

  TheScreamingEagles said:

  Nigelb said:

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  There's a real and immediate question about the pace of technological change, its effects on future employment prospects, and the value of a traditional three year degree.
  Frankly, I'm not sure I'd gamble tens of thousands, and three years of my life on it, if I were a school leaver today.
  

  I am still encouraging my kids to go to university, but I am more involved on what degrees they should do than my father was, and he was pretty involved, both are likely to do STEM subjects, such as engineering or medicine.
  
  University made me the person I am today, I went to university as this shy, geeky, nerdish kid, the experiences and the lifelong friends I made, I don’t regret it.
  
  Then again I was the last cohort to have their fees paid.

  A degree sponsored by someone like RR would be the way to go today.
  
  I managed to get chucked out of university, twice. So I can't usefully contribute based on my own experience.

  1
• FrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801

  August 13 edited August 13

  MaxPB said:

  TheScreamingEagles said:

  Nigelb said:

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  There's a real and immediate question about the pace of technological change, its effects on future employment prospects, and the value of a traditional three year degree.
  Frankly, I'm not sure I'd gamble tens of thousands, and three years of my life on it, if I were a school leaver today.
  

  I am still encouraging my kids to go to university, but I am more involved on what degrees they should do than my father was, and he was pretty involved, both are likely to do STEM subjects, such as engineering or medicine.
  
  University made me the person I am today, I went to university as this shy, geeky, nerdish kid, the experiences and the lifelong friends I made, I don’t regret it.
  
  Then again I was the last cohort to have their fees paid.

  I would personally recommend doing something where it will be difficult to replace humans. Medicine is probably still good for another 10 years and surgery for another 20 years. Engineering of the physical kind will be ok for a while yet too. The issue for the latter is going to be finding somewhere in the UK to get experience. A friend's brother did an electrical engineering degree and traded down to being an electrician because he couldn't find any jobs related to his field for almost 2 years and got sick of working as a barman.

  Looking for niches that interconnect disciplines where there is a lack or difficulty in sourcing lots of data. Solid foundations in understanding computer science / maths aren't going anywhere, understanding the output of LLMs is required, but you don't want to be in a role where you can already copy / paste a load of it and that is all the job requires.

  0
• MaxPB Posts: 40,506

  August 13

  Carnyx said:

  Slightly puzzled by header.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security
  
  "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.
  
  The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.
  
  The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."
  
  

  And this is what I think needs to be done for everyone on unemployment benefits, these are jobs that need doing, they pay the minimum wage so do them. I don't think university graduates or anyone under the age of 25 should be eligible for unemployment benefits, if they can go out and socialise they can work in the field or milk cows in a barn or work in a warehouse. It may not be what they want to do but it's still paid work which is better than sitting at home on the dole.

  0
• TheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,251

  August 13

  Nigelb said:

  TheScreamingEagles said:

  Nigelb said:

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  There's a real and immediate question about the pace of technological change, its effects on future employment prospects, and the value of a traditional three year degree.
  Frankly, I'm not sure I'd gamble tens of thousands, and three years of my life on it, if I were a school leaver today.
  

  I am still encouraging my kids to go to university, but I am more involved on what degrees they should do than my father was, and he was pretty involved, both are likely to do STEM subjects, such as engineering or medicine.
  
  University made me the person I am today, I went to university as this shy, geeky, nerdish kid, the experiences and the lifelong friends I made, I don’t regret it.
  
  Then again I was the last cohort to have their fees paid.

  A degree sponsored by someone like RR would be the way to go today.
  
  I managed to get chucked out of university, twice. So I can't usefully contribute based on my own experience.

  That’s one of the options we looked.
  
  Youngest is really into F1 and recently he contacted all the British based F1 teams for advice, all replied generically but to my chagrin Red Bull sent him a really comprehensive personalised reply about the pathways and that’s another option.

  1
• Battlebus Posts: 1,353

  August 13

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  My daughter is also ex-Leeds (STEM) and things eventually turn up. Recruitment doesn't really start for a while. The larger companies who hire graduates do their annual plans in September and will recruit against that plan towards the end of the year.
  
  I'd also recommend Australia for a working holiday. My immigrant /emigrant siblings have all enjoyed the life/lifestyle there. And if she stays there, the Student Loan Company can't collect.

  1
• Mexicanpete Posts: 33,504

  August 13

  Andy_JS said:

  If someone supported a big increase in the number of university students, the same person cannot complain about the fact that a university degree is worth less than it used to be.

  I think we all now agree only the offspring of PB Tories have earned the right to an elite university education.
  
  Stay in your lane the rest of you peasants.

  1
• MattW Posts: 29,119

  August 13

  Nigelb said:

  TheScreamingEagles said:

  Nigelb said:

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  There's a real and immediate question about the pace of technological change, its effects on future employment prospects, and the value of a traditional three year degree.
  Frankly, I'm not sure I'd gamble tens of thousands, and three years of my life on it, if I were a school leaver today.
  

  I am still encouraging my kids to go to university, but I am more involved on what degrees they should do than my father was, and he was pretty involved, both are likely to do STEM subjects, such as engineering or medicine.
  
  University made me the person I am today, I went to university as this shy, geeky, nerdish kid, the experiences and the lifelong friends I made, I don’t regret it.
  
  Then again I was the last cohort to have their fees paid.

  A degree sponsored by someone like RR would be the way to go today.
  
  I managed to get chucked out of university, twice. So I can't usefully contribute based on my own experience.

  One long term niche would be nuclear submarines, if you are happy living up there. Or other areas of defence.

  0
• Cookie Posts: 15,781

  August 13

  TheScreamingEagles said:

  Nigelb said:

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  There's a real and immediate question about the pace of technological change, its effects on future employment prospects, and the value of a traditional three year degree.
  Frankly, I'm not sure I'd gamble tens of thousands, and three years of my life on it, if I were a school leaver today.
  

  I am still encouraging my kids to go to university, but I am more involved on what degrees they should do than my father was, and he was pretty involved, both are likely to do STEM subjects, such as engineering or medicine.
  
  University made me the person I am today, I went to university as this shy, geeky, nerdish kid, the experiences and the lifelong friends I made, I don’t regret it.
  
  Then again I was the last cohort to have their fees paid.

  But what would have been the counterfactual? Very probably you would have come out of your shy, geeky phase between the ages of 18 and 21 whatever you did.
  People grow up whether they go to university or not!

  0
• MattW Posts: 29,119

  August 13

  Attempts in the USA to roll back same sex marriage:
  
  https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/08/12/trump-same-sex-marriage/85614479007/

  0
• Sandpit Posts: 56,343

  August 13

  Andy_JS said:

  If you want a university degree to be worth more, reduce the number of people going to university.

  Or reduce the price of the course.
  
  Education should be ripe for technological disruption

  0
• OldKingCole Posts: 35,479

  August 13

  Cookie said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  What was her subject?
  I've said before, I think the costs of university for the student are greater than the benefits in most cases. If I was 18 I'd be learning a trade.
  If I had sons I'd be advising them to do the same. It's a bit different with girls though, isn't it? You don't really get many female plumbers or electricians.
  That said, middle daughter has expressed a vague interest in that as a career path, which is vaguely encouraging.

  My eldest son's niece... that's his bro-in-law's daughter ...... started off training as a plumber but apparently the firm she was working for has gone out of business and her apprenticeship has lapsed. Don't what she's doing now.
  
  Grandson 2 ...... eldest son's son, ..... nwas in the same position as Big G's granddaughter so has taken himself off to Australia where he's keeping body and soul together by working as a barman and 'looking round'.

  1
• FrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801

  August 13 edited August 13

  To add to my earlier point, one thing a few academics told me over the past year or so is with the rise of AI filtering of applications if you CV coming out of uni is did A-Levels do ok, did degree getting 2:1, you just don't stand out at all and very easy to get lost in the noise before a human ever looks at your application.
  
  They have had lots of very stressed students shitting their pants because they got a bad mark on one module and worried about the fact they have to upload their whole module transcript after not getting any internships / work experience.

  0
• Mexicanpete Posts: 33,504

  August 13

  Vance's speech in Fairford is impressive compared to Trump's efforts.

  0
• TheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,251

  August 13

  Cookie said:

  TheScreamingEagles said:

  Nigelb said:

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  There's a real and immediate question about the pace of technological change, its effects on future employment prospects, and the value of a traditional three year degree.
  Frankly, I'm not sure I'd gamble tens of thousands, and three years of my life on it, if I were a school leaver today.
  

  I am still encouraging my kids to go to university, but I am more involved on what degrees they should do than my father was, and he was pretty involved, both are likely to do STEM subjects, such as engineering or medicine.
  
  University made me the person I am today, I went to university as this shy, geeky, nerdish kid, the experiences and the lifelong friends I made, I don’t regret it.
  
  Then again I was the last cohort to have their fees paid.

  But what would have been the counterfactual? Very probably you would have come out of your shy, geeky phase between the ages of 18 and 21 whatever you did.
  People grow up whether they go to university or not!

  I’d probably stayed at home for a few more years, stayed the good Muslim boy and let my mother marry me off in an arranged marriage.

  0
• Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,376

  August 13

  FrancisUrquhart said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Cookie said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  What was her subject?
  I've said before, I think the costs of university for the student are greater than the benefits in most cases. If I was 18 I'd be learning a trade.
  If I had sons I'd be advising them to do the same. It's a bit different with girls though, isn't it? You don't really get many female plumbers or electricians.
  That said, middle daughter has expressed a vague interest in that as a career path, which is vaguely encouraging.

  Italian language and culture

  I would think mainstream foreign languages are even worse hit than coding from advancements of LLMs. You not need army of translators, all of you need is basically a copy editor to check / tweak.

  She is interested in the HMRC, civil service and law
  
  I am sure she will find a placement, but as others have said it is something that needs patience but of couse this is where UC balloons

  0
• bondegezou Posts: 15,638

  August 13 edited August 13

  https://www.lancashire.ac.uk/news/ancient-dna-west-african-ancestry
  
  Ancient DNA analysis uncovers evidence for West African ancestry in two unconnected burials from seventh-century-AD England.
  
  In both individuals, their African ancestors were recent, likely at the grandparent level.
  
  Whilst one cemetery showed royal connections to continental Europe, the other was on the fringes of the Anglo-Saxon world.
  This is the first evidence for genetic connections between Britain and Africa during the Early Middle Ages.
  
  Immigrants, coming over here, getting buried in the 7th century...

  2
• viewcode Posts: 25,546

  August 13

  At the risk of being smug, the only degree I did where I didn't get a job before the end of the course was the first one, and the gap was something like six weeks.

  1
• TheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,251

  August 13

  bondegezou said:

  https://www.lancashire.ac.uk/news/ancient-dna-west-african-ancestry
  
  Ancient DNA analysis uncovers evidence for West African ancestry in two unconnected burials from seventh-century-AD England.
  
  In both individuals, their African ancestors were recent, likely at the grandparent level.
  
  Whilst one cemetery showed royal connections to continental Europe, the other was on the fringes of the Anglo-Saxon world.
  This is the first evidence for genetic connections between Britain and Africa during the Early Middle Ages.
  
  Immigrants, coming over here, getting buried in the 7th century...

  And did those feet in ancient time…

  2
• FrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,801

  August 13 edited August 13

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  FrancisUrquhart said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Cookie said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  What was her subject?
  I've said before, I think the costs of university for the student are greater than the benefits in most cases. If I was 18 I'd be learning a trade.
  If I had sons I'd be advising them to do the same. It's a bit different with girls though, isn't it? You don't really get many female plumbers or electricians.
  That said, middle daughter has expressed a vague interest in that as a career path, which is vaguely encouraging.

  Italian language and culture

  I would think mainstream foreign languages are even worse hit than coding from advancements of LLMs. You not need army of translators, all of you need is basically a copy editor to check / tweak.

  She is interested in the HMRC, civil service and law
  
  I am sure she will find a placement, but as others have said it is something that needs patience but of couse this is where UC balloons

  This is what I meant about inter-disciplinary niches. I would imagine that bi / tri lingual lawyer isn't going anywhere soon, as small mistakes in translation can be incredibly costly. You need to know precise legal terminology, be accurate and also be very confident in the context. That's quite different from working at say a marketing company translating ad copy.
  
  Not sure I would want to go HMRC, that is primed for AI revolution, although I doubt any government would actually go through with it properly.

  0
• Scott_xP Posts: 39,540

  August 13

  Mexicanpete said:

  Vance's speech in Fairford is impressive compared to Trump's efforts.

  Gettin' ready to take over...

  1
• MattW Posts: 29,119

  August 13

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  FrancisUrquhart said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Cookie said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  What was her subject?
  I've said before, I think the costs of university for the student are greater than the benefits in most cases. If I was 18 I'd be learning a trade.
  If I had sons I'd be advising them to do the same. It's a bit different with girls though, isn't it? You don't really get many female plumbers or electricians.
  That said, middle daughter has expressed a vague interest in that as a career path, which is vaguely encouraging.

  Italian language and culture

  I would think mainstream foreign languages are even worse hit than coding from advancements of LLMs. You not need army of translators, all of you need is basically a copy editor to check / tweak.

  She is interested in the HMRC, civil service and law
  
  I am sure she will find a placement, but as others have said it is something that needs patience but of couse this is where UC balloons

  Guaranteed unpopularity on PB, I'm afraid .

  1
• Cookie Posts: 15,781

  August 13

  TheScreamingEagles said:

  Cookie said:

  TheScreamingEagles said:

  Nigelb said:

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  There's a real and immediate question about the pace of technological change, its effects on future employment prospects, and the value of a traditional three year degree.
  Frankly, I'm not sure I'd gamble tens of thousands, and three years of my life on it, if I were a school leaver today.
  

  I am still encouraging my kids to go to university, but I am more involved on what degrees they should do than my father was, and he was pretty involved, both are likely to do STEM subjects, such as engineering or medicine.
  
  University made me the person I am today, I went to university as this shy, geeky, nerdish kid, the experiences and the lifelong friends I made, I don’t regret it.
  
  Then again I was the last cohort to have their fees paid.

  But what would have been the counterfactual? Very probably you would have come out of your shy, geeky phase between the ages of 18 and 21 whatever you did.
  People grow up whether they go to university or not!

  I’d probably stayed at home for a few more years, stayed the good Muslim boy and let my mother marry me off in an arranged marriage.

  Ha - interesting, and fair enough.

  0
• Leon Posts: 64,076

  August 13

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  How many times have I said “universities are doomed”
  
  I’m right. Yet again. I’m always right. Basically we should call the site Leonisright.com

  1
• OldKingCole Posts: 35,479

  August 13

  viewcode said:

  At the risk of being smug, the only degree I did where I didn't get a job before the end of the course was the first one, and the gap was something like six weeks.

  That was one thing about doing pharmacy when I did it; you could walk into a job immediately upon qualifying.

  0
• Carnyx Posts: 44,878

  August 13 edited August 13

  bondegezou said:

  https://www.lancashire.ac.uk/news/ancient-dna-west-african-ancestry
  
  Ancient DNA analysis uncovers evidence for West African ancestry in two unconnected burials from seventh-century-AD England.
  
  In both individuals, their African ancestors were recent, likely at the grandparent level.
  
  Whilst one cemetery showed royal connections to continental Europe, the other was on the fringes of the Anglo-Saxon world.
  This is the first evidence for genetic connections between Britain and Africa during the Early Middle Ages.
  
  Immigrants, coming over here, getting buried in the 7th century...

  Or even earlier, like Barates the Palmyrene Geordie.
  
  https://blog.twmuseums.org.uk/the-regina-tombstone/
  
  "This is the tombstone of Regina from the tribe of the Catuvellauni, freedwoman and wife of Barates from Palmyra. She came from southern England and he came from Syria and they ended up at South Shields."

  1
• OldKingCole Posts: 35,479

  August 13

  Raining here in Mid Essex.

  0
• bondegezou Posts: 15,638

  August 13

  Carnyx said:

  bondegezou said:

  https://www.lancashire.ac.uk/news/ancient-dna-west-african-ancestry
  
  Ancient DNA analysis uncovers evidence for West African ancestry in two unconnected burials from seventh-century-AD England.
  
  In both individuals, their African ancestors were recent, likely at the grandparent level.
  
  Whilst one cemetery showed royal connections to continental Europe, the other was on the fringes of the Anglo-Saxon world.
  This is the first evidence for genetic connections between Britain and Africa during the Early Middle Ages.
  
  Immigrants, coming over here, getting buried in the 7th century...

  Or even earlier, like Barates the Palmyrene Geordie.
  
  https://blog.twmuseums.org.uk/the-regina-tombstone/
  
  "This is the tombstone of Regina from the tribe of the Catuvellauni, freedwoman and wife of Barates from Palmyra. She came from southern England and he came from Syria and they ended up at South Shields."

  Probably came over on a family reunion visa and not earning.

  1
• Leon Posts: 64,076

  August 13

  I’m walking from Shoreditch House through the City
  
  This is such an amazing part of the world. This tiny corner of the planet has maybe had more influence on humanity than any other square mile anywhere else
  
  Here is where we financed the Industrial Revolution. And here is where we financed the world’s greatest empire
  
  London may be doomed but my god we built something profoundly impressive. The clash of architecture and history is intoxicating

  -1
• Battlebus Posts: 1,353

  August 13

  Carnyx said:

  bondegezou said:

  https://www.lancashire.ac.uk/news/ancient-dna-west-african-ancestry
  
  Ancient DNA analysis uncovers evidence for West African ancestry in two unconnected burials from seventh-century-AD England.
  
  In both individuals, their African ancestors were recent, likely at the grandparent level.
  
  Whilst one cemetery showed royal connections to continental Europe, the other was on the fringes of the Anglo-Saxon world.
  This is the first evidence for genetic connections between Britain and Africa during the Early Middle Ages.
  
  Immigrants, coming over here, getting buried in the 7th century...

  Or even earlier, like Barates the Palmyrene Geordie.
  
  https://blog.twmuseums.org.uk/the-regina-tombstone/
  
  "This is the tombstone of Regina from the tribe of the Catuvellauni, freedwoman and wife of Barates from Palmyra. She came from southern England and he came from Syria and they ended up at South Shields."

  Something about South Shields. Large Somali community.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalis_in_the_United_Kingdom

  0
• stodge Posts: 15,090

  August 13

  Afternoon all
  
  I see my comments on the desirability or otherwise of a "strong" leader drew some comments from those who apparently think such a figure is needed now whatever the consequences.
  
  I suppose a strong leader is fine if that leader does what you want or think is right. It's entirely possible your strong leader will do the opposite and you'll be stuck with it.
  
  It's not a question of strength any way - leadership does need an inspiring vision
  
  On this topic, as I'm now outside the work place, I don't have a strong view but the employment market is and has always changed and while it's easy to blame Rachel Reeves, I'm less convinced and she may be the victim of trends in employment which had already started post Covid. In some areas, there was a shortage of suitable candidates and the trap for many young people (including but not limited to graduates) is the lack of workplace experience.
  
  Companies want to hire people with experience not complete newbies. Local Government tended to be where aspiring lawyers, accountants and surveyors started their working life as the Council would support their professional training and would be able to pay them well under the market rate as they learned. Once they are qualified, they were off to more lucrative roles in the private sector while the Council recruited their successors. The youngsters also benefitted from older staff at the end of their career who came back into local Government to build up their pension.
  
  That's in the professions but elsewhere you don't see the vacancy notices you did two or three years ago.
  
  To be fair, if Romford is any guide, eateries are booming, business is good and people are out and about spending but as with so many other things that's a London-centric experience.

  1
• PoodleInASlipstream Posts: 455

  August 13

  MaxPB said:

  Carnyx said:

  Slightly puzzled by header.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security
  
  "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.
  
  The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.
  
  The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."
  
  

  And this is what I think needs to be done for everyone on unemployment benefits, these are jobs that need doing, they pay the minimum wage so do them. I don't think university graduates or anyone under the age of 25 should be eligible for unemployment benefits, if they can go out and socialise they can work in the field or milk cows in a barn or work in a warehouse. It may not be what they want to do but it's still paid work which is better than sitting at home on the dole.

  The big problem with farming work is the location. I live in a rural area surrounded by farms and if you don't have your own transport, it's impossible to work there. Increasing numbers of young people don't have driving licences because of the cost and insane waiting times for tests.
  
  We need a wholesale reform of vehicle licencing to deal with that. An easy to get licence (possibly modelled on the motorcycle CBT) for lightweight cars - like the Citroen Ami - would help, plus a scheme to help with financing cars like that for young people living in, or with a job offer in, a rural area.

  2
• malcolmg Posts: 44,705

  August 13

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  It is stupid the amount of peopel going to University, scam started by Blair.

  1
• Carnyx Posts: 44,878

  August 13

  bondegezou said:

  Carnyx said:

  bondegezou said:

  https://www.lancashire.ac.uk/news/ancient-dna-west-african-ancestry
  
  Ancient DNA analysis uncovers evidence for West African ancestry in two unconnected burials from seventh-century-AD England.
  
  In both individuals, their African ancestors were recent, likely at the grandparent level.
  
  Whilst one cemetery showed royal connections to continental Europe, the other was on the fringes of the Anglo-Saxon world.
  This is the first evidence for genetic connections between Britain and Africa during the Early Middle Ages.
  
  Immigrants, coming over here, getting buried in the 7th century...

  Or even earlier, like Barates the Palmyrene Geordie.
  
  https://blog.twmuseums.org.uk/the-regina-tombstone/
  
  "This is the tombstone of Regina from the tribe of the Catuvellauni, freedwoman and wife of Barates from Palmyra. She came from southern England and he came from Syria and they ended up at South Shields."

  Probably came over on a family reunion visa and not earning.

  I know you are being ironic, but seriously he was far more likely to be working (very hard) for his earnings, either as an auxiliary soldier in the regiment of Syrian archers on the Wall, or as a merchant at South Shields providing services mainly for the army.
  
  https://www.aramcoworld.com/articles/2017/hadrians-syrians

  0
• kinabalu Posts: 46,707

  August 13

  bondegezou said:

  https://www.lancashire.ac.uk/news/ancient-dna-west-african-ancestry
  
  Ancient DNA analysis uncovers evidence for West African ancestry in two unconnected burials from seventh-century-AD England.
  
  In both individuals, their African ancestors were recent, likely at the grandparent level.
  
  Whilst one cemetery showed royal connections to continental Europe, the other was on the fringes of the Anglo-Saxon world.
  This is the first evidence for genetic connections between Britain and Africa during the Early Middle Ages.
  
  Immigrants, coming over here, getting buried in the 7th century...

  Taking our plots.

  2
• malcolmg Posts: 44,705

  August 13

  Leon said:

  I’m walking from Shoreditch House through the City
  
  This is such an amazing part of the world. This tiny corner of the planet has maybe had more influence on humanity than any other square mile anywhere else
  
  Here is where we financed the Industrial Revolution. And here is where we financed the world’s greatest empire
  
  London may be doomed but my god we built something profoundly impressive. The clash of architecture and history is intoxicating

  pass the sick bucket and a spare

  0
• viewcode Posts: 25,546

  August 13

  Carnyx said:

  bondegezou said:

  https://www.lancashire.ac.uk/news/ancient-dna-west-african-ancestry
  
  Ancient DNA analysis uncovers evidence for West African ancestry in two unconnected burials from seventh-century-AD England.
  
  In both individuals, their African ancestors were recent, likely at the grandparent level.
  
  Whilst one cemetery showed royal connections to continental Europe, the other was on the fringes of the Anglo-Saxon world.
  This is the first evidence for genetic connections between Britain and Africa during the Early Middle Ages.
  
  Immigrants, coming over here, getting buried in the 7th century...

  Or even earlier, like Barates the Palmyrene Geordie.
  
  https://blog.twmuseums.org.uk/the-regina-tombstone/
  
  "This is the tombstone of Regina from the tribe of the Catuvellauni, freedwoman and wife of Barates from Palmyra. She came from southern England and he came from Syria and they ended up at South Shields."

  Oh I bet she was impressed by that...

  1
• TheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,251

  August 13

  PoodleInASlipstream said:

  MaxPB said:

  Carnyx said:

  Slightly puzzled by header.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security
  
  "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.
  
  The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.
  
  The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."
  
  

  And this is what I think needs to be done for everyone on unemployment benefits, these are jobs that need doing, they pay the minimum wage so do them. I don't think university graduates or anyone under the age of 25 should be eligible for unemployment benefits, if they can go out and socialise they can work in the field or milk cows in a barn or work in a warehouse. It may not be what they want to do but it's still paid work which is better than sitting at home on the dole.

  The big problem with farming work is the location. I live in a rural area surrounded by farms and if you don't have your own transport, it's impossible to work there. Increasing numbers of young people don't have driving licences because of the cost and insane waiting times for tests.
  
  We need a wholesale reform of vehicle licencing to deal with that. An easy to get licence (possibly modelled on the motorcycle CBT) for lightweight cars - like the Citroen Ami - would help, plus a scheme to help with financing cars like that for young people living in, or with a job offer in, a rural area.

  Last night I looked at the price of adding a 17 year old boy to my car insurance, 😱😱😱
  
  I don’t think I’ll be able to afford any shoes for 20 years.
  
  I may have to set up a go fund me on PB.

  0
• malcolmg Posts: 44,705

  August 13

  viewcode said:

  At the risk of being smug, the only degree I did where I didn't get a job before the end of the course was the first one, and the gap was something like six weeks.

  Never went to Uni and never been out of work in 55 years.

  1
• malcolmg Posts: 44,705

  August 13

  Andy_JS said:

  If you want a university degree to be worth more, reduce the number of people going to university.

  Ten a penny nowadays

  1
• A_View_From_Cumbria5 Posts: 662

  August 13

  MaxPB said:

  Carnyx said:

  Slightly puzzled by header.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security
  
  "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.
  
  The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.
  
  The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."
  
  

  And this is what I think needs to be done for everyone on unemployment benefits, these are jobs that need doing, they pay the minimum wage so do them. I don't think university graduates or anyone under the age of 25 should be eligible for unemployment benefits, if they can go out and socialise they can work in the field or milk cows in a barn or work in a warehouse. It may not be what they want to do but it's still paid work which is better than sitting at home on the dole.

  Milking cows is not a trivial thing to do. Really takes time to learn. Personally if I were to become Defra Secretary I would line up all the staff and see how many could plough a straight furrow, milk a cow and shear a tup. I can't do all three but can do two of them.

  3
• Sandpit Posts: 56,343

  August 13

  TheScreamingEagles said:

  PoodleInASlipstream said:

  MaxPB said:

  Carnyx said:

  Slightly puzzled by header.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security
  
  "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.
  
  The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.
  
  The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."
  
  

  And this is what I think needs to be done for everyone on unemployment benefits, these are jobs that need doing, they pay the minimum wage so do them. I don't think university graduates or anyone under the age of 25 should be eligible for unemployment benefits, if they can go out and socialise they can work in the field or milk cows in a barn or work in a warehouse. It may not be what they want to do but it's still paid work which is better than sitting at home on the dole.

  The big problem with farming work is the location. I live in a rural area surrounded by farms and if you don't have your own transport, it's impossible to work there. Increasing numbers of young people don't have driving licences because of the cost and insane waiting times for tests.
  
  We need a wholesale reform of vehicle licencing to deal with that. An easy to get licence (possibly modelled on the motorcycle CBT) for lightweight cars - like the Citroen Ami - would help, plus a scheme to help with financing cars like that for young people living in, or with a job offer in, a rural area.

  Last night I looked at the price of adding a 17 year old boy to my car insurance, 😱😱😱
  
  I don’t think I’ll be able to afford any shoes for 20 years.
  
  I may have to set up a go fund me on PB.

  It’ll be cheaper to buy him a small car, than to try and add him to your car’s insurance!

  1
• Carnyx Posts: 44,878

  August 13

  Battlebus said:

  Carnyx said:

  bondegezou said:

  https://www.lancashire.ac.uk/news/ancient-dna-west-african-ancestry
  
  Ancient DNA analysis uncovers evidence for West African ancestry in two unconnected burials from seventh-century-AD England.
  
  In both individuals, their African ancestors were recent, likely at the grandparent level.
  
  Whilst one cemetery showed royal connections to continental Europe, the other was on the fringes of the Anglo-Saxon world.
  This is the first evidence for genetic connections between Britain and Africa during the Early Middle Ages.
  
  Immigrants, coming over here, getting buried in the 7th century...

  Or even earlier, like Barates the Palmyrene Geordie.
  
  https://blog.twmuseums.org.uk/the-regina-tombstone/
  
  "This is the tombstone of Regina from the tribe of the Catuvellauni, freedwoman and wife of Barates from Palmyra. She came from southern England and he came from Syria and they ended up at South Shields."

  Something about South Shields. Large Somali community.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalis_in_the_United_Kingdom

  Seamen, presumably? But then it is a port just as it was in Roman times. Maybe Barates opened a bar when he retired from the cohort.

  0
• FeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,832

  August 13

  MaxPB said:

  Nigelb said:

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  There's a real and immediate question about the pace of technological change, its effects on future employment prospects, and the value of a traditional three year degree.
  Frankly, I'm not sure I'd gamble tens of thousands, and three years of my life on it, if I were a school leaver today.
  

  Yeah, my sister was asking me about whether she should put her daughter into code camp this summer as she thinks it might be a good skill to learn. I said do it if you think she might find it fun, not for the skills because coding as a skill is very quickly becoming devalued. It's a great mindset to learn but the actual hard skills behind writing code are just nowhere near as marketable as they were even 3 years ago, especially at entry level.

  Agentic AI is ceratinly changing the way we write software, but there will be a need for people who can code for quite a while yet. I'm not sure how much of a gain in productivity AI is actually bringing. Personlly, I'm still trying to find the sweet spot in between writing everying myself and letting AI write it and then trying to understand and debug the unstructured spaghetti that it often generates. To trick seems to be to proceed in small steps, being sure to tell the AI exactly what it is that you want, but this can take almost as long as writing it yourself.

  1
• TheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,251

  August 13

  Sandpit said:

  TheScreamingEagles said:

  PoodleInASlipstream said:

  MaxPB said:

  Carnyx said:

  Slightly puzzled by header.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security
  
  "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.
  
  The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.
  
  The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."
  
  

  And this is what I think needs to be done for everyone on unemployment benefits, these are jobs that need doing, they pay the minimum wage so do them. I don't think university graduates or anyone under the age of 25 should be eligible for unemployment benefits, if they can go out and socialise they can work in the field or milk cows in a barn or work in a warehouse. It may not be what they want to do but it's still paid work which is better than sitting at home on the dole.

  The big problem with farming work is the location. I live in a rural area surrounded by farms and if you don't have your own transport, it's impossible to work there. Increasing numbers of young people don't have driving licences because of the cost and insane waiting times for tests.
  
  We need a wholesale reform of vehicle licencing to deal with that. An easy to get licence (possibly modelled on the motorcycle CBT) for lightweight cars - like the Citroen Ami - would help, plus a scheme to help with financing cars like that for young people living in, or with a job offer in, a rural area.

  Last night I looked at the price of adding a 17 year old boy to my car insurance, 😱😱😱
  
  I don’t think I’ll be able to afford any shoes for 20 years.
  
  I may have to set up a go fund me on PB.

  It’ll be cheaper to buy him a small car, than to try and add him to your car’s insurance!

  So when I passed my test in 1995 my father brought me a brand new Volvo 440, which my friends and driving instructor said was a tank.
  
  I’m not allowed to buy my kids small cars, I think it’ll have be an XC60.
  
  

  1
• MattW Posts: 29,119

  August 13

  Having listened to the JDV speech, I think someone is being ironic.
  
  It is doubtless for a UA audience, but JDV is intelligent enough to know that it was 90% BS.

  0
• Carnyx Posts: 44,878

  August 13

  viewcode said:

  Carnyx said:

  bondegezou said:

  https://www.lancashire.ac.uk/news/ancient-dna-west-african-ancestry
  
  Ancient DNA analysis uncovers evidence for West African ancestry in two unconnected burials from seventh-century-AD England.
  
  In both individuals, their African ancestors were recent, likely at the grandparent level.
  
  Whilst one cemetery showed royal connections to continental Europe, the other was on the fringes of the Anglo-Saxon world.
  This is the first evidence for genetic connections between Britain and Africa during the Early Middle Ages.
  
  Immigrants, coming over here, getting buried in the 7th century...

  Or even earlier, like Barates the Palmyrene Geordie.
  
  https://blog.twmuseums.org.uk/the-regina-tombstone/
  
  "This is the tombstone of Regina from the tribe of the Catuvellauni, freedwoman and wife of Barates from Palmyra. She came from southern England and he came from Syria and they ended up at South Shields."

  Oh I bet she was impressed by that...

  Might not have had any choice in the matter. If she was the freedwoman of Barates she'd have been his slave to begin with.

  1
• Scott_xP Posts: 39,540

  August 13 edited August 13

  FeersumEnjineeya said:

  MaxPB said:

  Nigelb said:

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  There's a real and immediate question about the pace of technological change, its effects on future employment prospects, and the value of a traditional three year degree.
  Frankly, I'm not sure I'd gamble tens of thousands, and three years of my life on it, if I were a school leaver today.
  

  Yeah, my sister was asking me about whether she should put her daughter into code camp this summer as she thinks it might be a good skill to learn. I said do it if you think she might find it fun, not for the skills because coding as a skill is very quickly becoming devalued. It's a great mindset to learn but the actual hard skills behind writing code are just nowhere near as marketable as they were even 3 years ago, especially at entry level.

  Agentic AI is ceratinly changing the way we write software, but there will be a need for people who can code for quite a while yet. I'm not sure how much of a gain in productivity AI is actually bringing. Personlly, I'm still trying to find the sweet spot in between writing everying myself and letting AI write it and then trying to understand and debug the unstructured spaghetti that it often generates. To trick seems to be to proceed in small steps, being sure to tell the AI exactly what it is that you want, but this can take almost as long as writing it yourself.

  Interesting thread on a foundational issue with AI
  
  https://bsky.app/profile/mkirschenbaum.bsky.social/post/3lw7qhpefvk2l
  
  but if AI makes a joke, you LLMAO...

  1
• LostPassword Posts: 19,726

  August 13

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  I graduated in 2001. My first job, after university, was temping as a teaching assistant, which I did for a couple of days before the school year ended in July. I then had no work until the new school year in September.
  
  After moving across the country and giving up the teaching assistant temping in October, I again had no work until starting a data entry job in late November. I did that for two weeks, before starting a different job at the Inland Revenue, which still wasn't exactly what you'd think of as a graduate job.
  
  I eventually started work in a job that merited a degree in April 2002.
  
  I don't doubt that there are issues with the graduate job market at present - I've seen a number of different statistics showing such - but the anecdote presented is not that convincing. Unless and until you have the experience and contacts that lead to people approaching you to offer you jobs then job-hunting is always a lengthy and tedious process, and 60 job applications certainly didn't cut it back in 2001. She's only just getting started.

  0
• Theuniondivvie Posts: 44,671

  August 13 edited August 13

  I see tribune of the land of the free Vance is asking for the handles of social media users in the vicinity of his fishing holiday. Plod seems to be only obeying orders and knocking on locals’ doors to find them.
  
  https://shorturl.at/ZSPDH
  

  1
• sarissa Posts: 2,225

  August 13 edited August 13

  Nigelb said:

  MaxPB said:

  Massive thunderstorm making its way through London, biblical rain according to my friends south of the river.

  It's still cracking flags, up in Yorkshire.

  Any PBers in the path of the massive lightning storms in France?
  https://www.lightningmaps.org/#m=ses;t=3;s=0;o=0;b=;ts=0;z=7;y=42.563;x=1.7014;d=2;dl=2;dc=0;

  0
• MattW Posts: 29,119

  August 13

  TheScreamingEagles said:

  Sandpit said:

  TheScreamingEagles said:

  PoodleInASlipstream said:

  MaxPB said:

  Carnyx said:

  Slightly puzzled by header.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security
  
  "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.
  
  The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.
  
  The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."
  
  

  And this is what I think needs to be done for everyone on unemployment benefits, these are jobs that need doing, they pay the minimum wage so do them. I don't think university graduates or anyone under the age of 25 should be eligible for unemployment benefits, if they can go out and socialise they can work in the field or milk cows in a barn or work in a warehouse. It may not be what they want to do but it's still paid work which is better than sitting at home on the dole.

  The big problem with farming work is the location. I live in a rural area surrounded by farms and if you don't have your own transport, it's impossible to work there. Increasing numbers of young people don't have driving licences because of the cost and insane waiting times for tests.
  
  We need a wholesale reform of vehicle licencing to deal with that. An easy to get licence (possibly modelled on the motorcycle CBT) for lightweight cars - like the Citroen Ami - would help, plus a scheme to help with financing cars like that for young people living in, or with a job offer in, a rural area.

  Last night I looked at the price of adding a 17 year old boy to my car insurance, 😱😱😱
  
  I don’t think I’ll be able to afford any shoes for 20 years.
  
  I may have to set up a go fund me on PB.

  It’ll be cheaper to buy him a small car, than to try and add him to your car’s insurance!

  So when I passed my test in 1995 my father brought me a brand new Volvo 440, which my friends and driving instructor said was a tank.
  
  I’m not allowed to buy my kids small cars, I think it’ll have be an XC60.
  
  

  That will be expensive to mend.

  0
• bondegezou Posts: 15,638

  August 13

  https://www.ft.com/content/618f07cb-3cd8-42ff-af63-29118d305cbe
  
  UK porn site traffic plunges as age verification rules take effect
  
  Pornhub loses more than 1mn visitors in two weeks after Online Safety Act comes into force

  0
• Leon Posts: 64,076

  August 13

  malcolmg said:

  Leon said:

  I’m walking from Shoreditch House through the City
  
  This is such an amazing part of the world. This tiny corner of the planet has maybe had more influence on humanity than any other square mile anywhere else
  
  Here is where we financed the Industrial Revolution. And here is where we financed the world’s greatest empire
  
  London may be doomed but my god we built something profoundly impressive. The clash of architecture and history is intoxicating

  pass the sick bucket and a spare

  I am sorry the English colonised you and then literally forced you, at gunpoint, to join in with the British Empire, when all young Scotch people wanted to do was stay at home in the frigid rain eating neeps and tatties

  0
• TheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,251

  August 13 edited August 13

  sarissa said:

  Nigelb said:

  MaxPB said:

  Massive thunderstorm making its way through London, biblical rain according to my friends south of the river.

  It's still cracking flags, up in Yorkshire.

  Any PBers in the path of the massive lightning storms in France?
  https://www.lightningmaps.org/#m=ses;t=3;s=0;o=0;b=;ts=0;z=7;y=42.563;x=1.7014;d=2;dl=2;dc=0;

  So at what time do we expect the French to surrender?

  0
• Carnyx Posts: 44,878

  August 13

  A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:

  MaxPB said:

  Carnyx said:

  Slightly puzzled by header.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security
  
  "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.
  
  The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.
  
  The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."
  
  

  And this is what I think needs to be done for everyone on unemployment benefits, these are jobs that need doing, they pay the minimum wage so do them. I don't think university graduates or anyone under the age of 25 should be eligible for unemployment benefits, if they can go out and socialise they can work in the field or milk cows in a barn or work in a warehouse. It may not be what they want to do but it's still paid work which is better than sitting at home on the dole.

  Milking cows is not a trivial thing to do. Really takes time to learn. Personally if I were to become Defra Secretary I would line up all the staff and see how many could plough a straight furrow, milk a cow and shear a tup. I can't do all three but can do two of them.

  Not just that, but cleaning and maintaining the milking equipment to high standards, keeping an eye on the kine for mastitis and other diseases, and generally shovelling and hosing the sharn, and feeding the beasts. In all weathers and without fail morn and night. (My uncle was a cowman on a nearby farm. To this day, the smell of cattle really brings back memories of the byre.)

  0
• FeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,832

  August 13 edited August 13

  A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:

  MaxPB said:

  Carnyx said:

  Slightly puzzled by header.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security
  
  "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.
  
  The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.
  
  The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."
  
  

  And this is what I think needs to be done for everyone on unemployment benefits, these are jobs that need doing, they pay the minimum wage so do them. I don't think university graduates or anyone under the age of 25 should be eligible for unemployment benefits, if they can go out and socialise they can work in the field or milk cows in a barn or work in a warehouse. It may not be what they want to do but it's still paid work which is better than sitting at home on the dole.

  Milking cows is not a trivial thing to do. Really takes time to learn. Personally if I were to become Defra Secretary I would line up all the staff and see how many could plough a straight furrow, milk a cow and shear a tup. I can't do all three but can do two of them.

  My brother-in-law is a retired dairy farmer. It is actually quite astonishing how milking has advanced of the years. Over his career, he went from milking cows by hand to simply pressing buttons on the automatic milking machines.

  0
• Scott_xP Posts: 39,540

  August 13

  Nigelb said:

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  There's a real and immediate question about the pace of technological change, its effects on future employment prospects, and the value of a traditional three year degree.
  Frankly, I'm not sure I'd gamble tens of thousands, and three years of my life on it, if I were a school leaver today.
  

  The question there is whether you go to University to gather specific skills leading to a specific job, or whether you go to experience life, meet people, expand your interests, perhaps leading to a job in a field related to your degree, or perhaps not.
  
  I have worked since I graduated, but never explicitly in my specific field of study

  0
• OldKingCole Posts: 35,479

  August 13

  MattW said:

  TheScreamingEagles said:

  Sandpit said:

  TheScreamingEagles said:

  PoodleInASlipstream said:

  MaxPB said:

  Carnyx said:

  Slightly puzzled by header.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/13/dairy-farmers-worker-shortage-threatening-uk-food-security
  
  "Five in six farmers who have looked for workers said they have received very few or zero applications from qualified people for their job vacancies, according to a survey of dairy producers by Arla, the UK’s largest dairy cooperative and the owner of the Lurpak and Cravendale brands.
  
  The fifth annual poll of Arla’s 1,900 British dairy farmers has highlighted the worsening struggle to find workers with the right skills and experience, with 79% of farmers highlighting this problem in 2021, rising to 84% this year.
  
  The difficulties in hiring staff had grown worse since Brexit and the pandemic, milk producers reported, as the combination of the end of free movement for EU workers and other economic factors since Covid have made it harder to find suitable staff, while there has been a similar story across the whole of the agricultural sector."
  
  

  And this is what I think needs to be done for everyone on unemployment benefits, these are jobs that need doing, they pay the minimum wage so do them. I don't think university graduates or anyone under the age of 25 should be eligible for unemployment benefits, if they can go out and socialise they can work in the field or milk cows in a barn or work in a warehouse. It may not be what they want to do but it's still paid work which is better than sitting at home on the dole.

  The big problem with farming work is the location. I live in a rural area surrounded by farms and if you don't have your own transport, it's impossible to work there. Increasing numbers of young people don't have driving licences because of the cost and insane waiting times for tests.
  
  We need a wholesale reform of vehicle licencing to deal with that. An easy to get licence (possibly modelled on the motorcycle CBT) for lightweight cars - like the Citroen Ami - would help, plus a scheme to help with financing cars like that for young people living in, or with a job offer in, a rural area.

  Last night I looked at the price of adding a 17 year old boy to my car insurance, 😱😱😱
  
  I don’t think I’ll be able to afford any shoes for 20 years.
  
  I may have to set up a go fund me on PB.

  It’ll be cheaper to buy him a small car, than to try and add him to your car’s insurance!

  So when I passed my test in 1995 my father brought me a brand new Volvo 440, which my friends and driving instructor said was a tank.
  
  I’m not allowed to buy my kids small cars, I think it’ll have be an XC60.
  
  

  That will be expensive to mend.

  Elder son, who lives in W. Kent, bought his daughter a Fiat 500. He complains that all she uses it for is to drive to Bluewater.
  

  0
• turbotubbs Posts: 19,837

  August 13

  SirNorfolkPassmore said:

  Big_G_NorthWales said:

  Good afternoon
  
  As I commented yesterday, my granddaughter with her new degree from Leeds University has applied for 60 jobs and is now on UC and none of her fellow students have manged to find a position
  
  It does raise the question how much a degree is worth, when you can go to a FE and have possibly better prospects and no student debt

  Best of luck to her with job hunting, but it's hardly realistic to judge the value or otherwise of a degree when only about six weeks have passed since students finished final exams. "Was it worth it?" is a question that can only meaningfully be judged over decades rather than weeks.

  Yes we measure employment after 9 months of having left uni for a more realistic indicator.

  1