This feels like a courageous decision by John Swinney – politicalbetting.com

System · July 28

This feels like a courageous decision by John Swinney – politicalbetting.com

?EXC: John Swinney says the SNP will have to win an outright majority at the Holyrood election to secure indyref2.He has revealed his strategy for a referendum in the Record and will table a motion at his party's conference.https://t.co/twpBySdY1e

Read the full story here

Taz · July 28

First !

OldKingCole · July 28

First? Really? Like the SNP at the next Holyrood elections?

eek · July 28

OldKingCole said:
First? Really? Like the SNP at the next Holyrood elections?

I can see the logic if the aim is to justify an SNP move away from Independece will solve all problems approach

Battlebus · July 28

Indyref2 and independence is nonsense and won't happen in the near future. England hasn't been bled dry yet.

SirNorfolkPassmore · July 28

I don't think there is anything wildly surprising in these remarks.

The law is entirely clear that the FM doesn't set the threshold to determine when there would be a referendum for independence - the Supreme Court unanimously decided it was a reserved matter under the Scotland Act back in 2022. So John Swinney can say what he likes about where the threshold is - it doesn't have any legal weight whatsoever.

In terms of the politics, Swinney benefits from avoiding fragmentation on the pro-independence wing (fragmentation being the theme of the times in British politics). He doesn't want people feeling they can be pro-independence and vote Green or Alba, hence his comments.

He also doesn't desperately want a referendum, truth be told. SNP leaders need to give red meat on talk of independence to members. But in reality they could do without a referendum - it'd be very expensive (and the SNP have financial difficulties), there isn't the settled will to make a victory very likely (it's possible but I'd bet against on balance), and for all the talk they recognise the divorce settlement isn't likely to be great.

DecrepiterJohnL · July 28

Today's Countdown had Dictionary Corner guest John Culshaw running through his Prime Ministers. All were close to other characters except one, who stood alone. Major to Julian Clary; Blair to a dalek; Cameron was generic posh with hand gestures; Boris, well... but Gordon Brown was just Gordon Brown.

glw · July 28

FPT:

eek said:

glw said:
Regarding the OSA. I don't in principle object to age verification in some cases, although certainly not as broad as it is when the likes of Wikipedia are affected. What I can't understand is how the legislation is so badly drafted.

1. Not standardising the verification is plainly a big mistake. Ofcom isn't regulating verfication providers at all, and there are already many examples of trivial spoofing and issues with overreach and data protection.

2. Verfication would be a billion times easier if it was done on a client and end-user basis. Prove your age to Apple or Google once, and then have a frictionless zero-knowledge proof of age available for all apps and services, like any other permission you grant a web browser or app, such as location, camera access etc.

Ofcom have simply washed their hands of standardisation, regulation, and making the verification practical. Ofcom are plainly not competent to enforce the OSA in any meaningful way, and I'm certain will mainly make a song and dance of taking major sites to task when they inevitably get things wrong on occassion.

The OSA wants binning, as does Ofcom.
Were Ofcom the people who asked for OSA or merely the people told to sort it out without being given any resources to do so.

If the latter I’m not surprised they’ve done a quarter arsed job

I don't know but I heard the boss of Ofcom the other day and she acknowledged that most people will choose a VPN over repeatedly verifying their age by giving personal information to God knows who, she also didn't seem to have any issue with how verification was done and seemed to think "the market will decide" what is best. So the boss of Ofcom understands the issues, at least to a degree, but either doesn't feel she needs to push-back or is unwilling to publically voice any opposition, which in my book is more than enough for me to think she's not fit for the job. Any competent person running the organisation should have been telling the government this is a bad idea, it will not work as you want, and will have many bad unintended consequences (people using dodgy VPNs, visiting even dodgier websites, personal information leaks). A competent person would have said wait for standardisation, platform age verification, and regulate or inspect how it is implemented. Give it some sort of Kitemark if you will.

It was exasperating to listen to someone who seems to at least comprehend there are big problems, but also seems unwilling to do anything about them. What's the point of being the boss of Ofcom if you think all your job entails is doing the stupid things the government has told you to do?

Ofcom is another Ofwat in the making.

Mexicanpete · July 28

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Today's Countdown had Dictionary Corner guest John Culshaw running through his Prime Ministers. All were close to other characters except one, who stood alone. Major to Julian Clary; Blair to a dalek; Cameron was generic posh with hand gestures; Boris, well... but Gordon Brown was just Gordon Brown.

I find all of Culshaw's imitations sound like Tom Baker.

On topic. Haven't we got some rather serious SNP related embarrassing questions on the horizon? "The Winnebago was only resting on my drive" sort of a question.

PoodleInASlipstream · July 28

SirNorfolkPassmore said:
He also doesn't desperately want a referendum, truth be told. SNP leaders need to give red meat on talk of independence to members. But in reality they could do without a referendum - it'd be very expensive (and the SNP have financial difficulties), there isn't the settled will to make a victory very likely (it's possible but I'd bet against on balance), and for all the talk they recognise the divorce settlement isn't likely to be great.

That's the key. Losing another referendum would kill any chance of independence for decades and destroy the SNP. Nobody in the SNP leadership wants to roll the dice on that one right now.

The best plan is to throw the more militant members some platitudes then sit tight and hope for a Reform victory in the next GE. A few years of PM Farage could swing things more in favour of the indy camp. Although, even that isn't a strategy without risk. Russia could invade the baltics, touching off a wide European war and suddenly a small country striking out on its own looks much less wise.

Fairliered · July 28

John Swinney realises there is no chance of a referendum in the next 10 years at least, although he can’t admit it to his membership. He needs to continue to rebuild the SNP as a party of financial prudence after the clusterfuck of Sturgeon and Yousaf.

The Greens may not win as many seats next year if the Corbyn and Sultana party takes off, as they will be sharing the same voters.

IanB2 · July 28

glw said:
FPT:

eek said:

glw said:
Regarding the OSA. I don't in principle object to age verification in some cases, although certainly not as broad as it is when the likes of Wikipedia are affected. What I can't understand is how the legislation is so badly drafted.

1. Not standardising the verification is plainly a big mistake. Ofcom isn't regulating verfication providers at all, and there are already many examples of trivial spoofing and issues with overreach and data protection.

2. Verfication would be a billion times easier if it was done on a client and end-user basis. Prove your age to Apple or Google once, and then have a frictionless zero-knowledge proof of age available for all apps and services, like any other permission you grant a web browser or app, such as location, camera access etc.

Ofcom have simply washed their hands of standardisation, regulation, and making the verification practical. Ofcom are plainly not competent to enforce the OSA in any meaningful way, and I'm certain will mainly make a song and dance of taking major sites to task when they inevitably get things wrong on occassion.

The OSA wants binning, as does Ofcom.
Were Ofcom the people who asked for OSA or merely the people told to sort it out without being given any resources to do so.

If the latter I’m not surprised they’ve done a quarter arsed job
I don't know but I heard the boss of Ofcom the other day and she acknowledged that most people will choose a VPN over repeatedly verifying their age by giving personal information to God knows who, she also didn't seem to have any issue with how verification was done and seemed to think "the market will decide" what is best. So the boss of Ofcom understands the issues, at least to a degree, but either doesn't feel she needs to push-back or is unwilling to publically voice any opposition, which in my book is more than enough for me to think she's not fit for the job. Any competent person running the organisation should have been telling the government this is a bad idea, it will not work as you want, and will have many bad unintended consequences (people using dodgy VPNs, visiting even dodgier websites, personal information leaks). A competent person would have said wait for standardisation, platform age verification, and regulate or inspect how it is implemented. Give it some sort of Kitemark if you will.

It was exasperating to listen to someone who seems to at least comprehend there are big problems, but also seems unwilling to do anything about them. What's the point of being the boss of Ofcom if you think all your job entails is doing the stupid things the government has told you to do?

Ofcom is another Ofwat in the making.

4 across: Sewage boss swallows an extra cuppa to take our Leon in hand (6)

Burgessian · July 28

It'll be an SNP/Labour coalition.

There won't be a Pro-Indy majority, though SNP will be largest party. Therefore a referendum is completely off the table, and isn't a barrier to the two centre-left parties making a deal. Both Sarwar and Swinney want to be in Govt, and combined they should be close to a majority.

The LibDems and Greens are possible extra partners, though the Greens were burned by their experience in office and seem to be going ever more extreme, so less likely than the LibDems.

Tories/Reform will be the main opposition.

Mexicanpete · July 28

wooliedyed said:

Mexicanpete said:

wooliedyed said:
I think, in hindsight, Keir would probably have preferred to not be in Scotland today. What a shame
At least it prevented him from falling into the Luis Rubiales bear trap.

Although, would that be worse than having a stinker (of a presser) with a stinker (diapers)?
I doubt he could look and sound less prime ministerial doing literally anything other than today's lamentable wibbling
'Hes my friend, actually' is about the most limp and lame thing a British PM has ever uttered at such a presser.

Yes, today's efforts did make Johnson's Peppa Pig speech looks like one of Obama or Mandela's better speeches.

Although Trump was quite chippy and wasn't going to take any s*** from a minion.

PoodleInASlipstream · July 28

The petition to repeal the OSA just passed 350,000 and the Government has posted a response. The meat of it is:

"The Government has no plans to repeal the Online Safety Act, and is working closely with Ofcom to implement the Act as quickly and effectively as possible to enable UK users to benefit from its protections."

So, basically "go fuck yourselves peasants" (18+ only, photo ID required).

They are very, very determined to see Nigel Farage in Number 10.

Theuniondivvie · July 28

Burgessian said:
It'll be an SNP/Labour coalition.

There won't be a Pro-Indy majority, though SNP will be largest party. Therefore a referendum is completely off the table, and isn't a barrier to the two centre-left parties making a deal. Both Sarwar and Swinney want to be in Govt, and combined they should be close to a majority.

The LibDems and Greens are possible extra partners, though the Greens were burned by their experience in office and seem to be going ever more extreme, so less likely than the LibDems.

Tories/Reform will be the main opposition.

You’ve posited this a few times so I assume you’re confident. I’ll take a gentleman’s wager on there not being an SNP/SLab coalition if you like.

MarqueeMark · July 28

To be fair to Swinney, being "no Alex Salmond" has pros and cons...

Leon · July 28

PoodleInASlipstream said:
The petition to repeal the OSA just passed 350,000 and the Government has posted a response. The meat of it is:

"The Government has no plans to repeal the Online Safety Act, and is working closely with Ofcom to implement the Act as quickly and effectively as possible to enable UK users to benefit from its protections."

So, basically "go fuck yourselves peasants" (18+ only, photo ID required).

They are very, very determined to see Nigel Farage in Number 10.

Aren't they now obliged to debate it in parliament?

We need Big Nige in Number Ten, pronto

MarqueeMark · July 28

PoodleInASlipstream said:
The petition to repeal the OSA just passed 350,000 and the Government has posted a response. The meat of it is:

"The Government has no plans to repeal the Online Safety Act, and is working closely with Ofcom to implement the Act as quickly and effectively as possible to enable UK users to benefit from its protections."

So, basically "go fuck yourselves peasants" (18+ only, photo ID required).

They are very, very determined to see Nigel Farage in Number 10.

Everybody is.

Seems the next election is such a great one to lose, everybody wants Nige to exclusively own the pile of steaming ordure that it brings.

(Like the one after Reform is going to be much better...)

MarqueeMark · July 28

Leon said:

PoodleInASlipstream said:
The petition to repeal the OSA just passed 350,000 and the Government has posted a response. The meat of it is:

"The Government has no plans to repeal the Online Safety Act, and is working closely with Ofcom to implement the Act as quickly and effectively as possible to enable UK users to benefit from its protections."

So, basically "go fuck yourselves peasants" (18+ only, photo ID required).

They are very, very determined to see Nigel Farage in Number 10.
Aren't they now obliged to debate it in parliament?

We need Big Nige in Number Ten, pronto

Now you're just shilling for the Shitz'n'Gigglez Party....

eek · July 28

glw said:
FPT:

eek said:

glw said:
Regarding the OSA. I don't in principle object to age verification in some cases, although certainly not as broad as it is when the likes of Wikipedia are affected. What I can't understand is how the legislation is so badly drafted.

1. Not standardising the verification is plainly a big mistake. Ofcom isn't regulating verfication providers at all, and there are already many examples of trivial spoofing and issues with overreach and data protection.

2. Verfication would be a billion times easier if it was done on a client and end-user basis. Prove your age to Apple or Google once, and then have a frictionless zero-knowledge proof of age available for all apps and services, like any other permission you grant a web browser or app, such as location, camera access etc.

Ofcom have simply washed their hands of standardisation, regulation, and making the verification practical. Ofcom are plainly not competent to enforce the OSA in any meaningful way, and I'm certain will mainly make a song and dance of taking major sites to task when they inevitably get things wrong on occassion.

The OSA wants binning, as does Ofcom.
Were Ofcom the people who asked for OSA or merely the people told to sort it out without being given any resources to do so.

If the latter I’m not surprised they’ve done a quarter arsed job
I don't know but I heard the boss of Ofcom the other day and she acknowledged that most people will choose a VPN over repeatedly verifying their age by giving personal information to God knows who, she also didn't seem to have any issue with how verification was done and seemed to think "the market will decide" what is best. So the boss of Ofcom understands the issues, at least to a degree, but either doesn't feel she needs to push-back or is unwilling to publically voice any opposition, which in my book is more than enough for me to think she's not fit for the job. Any competent person running the organisation should have been telling the government this is a bad idea, it will not work as you want, and will have many bad unintended consequences (people using dodgy VPNs, visiting even dodgier websites, personal information leaks). A competent person would have said wait for standardisation, platform age verification, and regulate or inspect how it is implemented. Give it some sort of Kitemark if you will.

It was exasperating to listen to someone who seems to at least comprehend there are big problems, but also seems unwilling to do anything about them. What's the point of being the boss of Ofcom if you think all your job entails is doing the stupid things the government has told you to do?

Ofcom is another Ofwat in the making.

The problem is that Apple (and Google) told Ofcom where to stick the idea - which is why you end up with the current mess,

Stereodog · July 28

Leon said:

PoodleInASlipstream said:
The petition to repeal the OSA just passed 350,000 and the Government has posted a response. The meat of it is:

"The Government has no plans to repeal the Online Safety Act, and is working closely with Ofcom to implement the Act as quickly and effectively as possible to enable UK users to benefit from its protections."

So, basically "go fuck yourselves peasants" (18+ only, photo ID required).

They are very, very determined to see Nigel Farage in Number 10.
Aren't they now obliged to debate it in parliament?

We need Big Nige in Number Ten, pronto

It's eligible for a debate in Westminster Hall on a neutral motion "This House has considered..." The Petitions Committee decides on whether a petition over 100k will get a debate but they rarely say no.

sarissa · July 28

As Ballot Box Scotland points out, the SNP's problem is that current polling shares would make them massively over-represented by capturing close on 60 constituencies even with no list seats. There are maybe a couple more they can pick up with 2-3% swing in their favour, but perhaps are at more risk of losing seven or eight without gaining equivalent seats on the list.

Swinney probably knows this and IMO is trying to shore up the constituency vote.

Malmesbury · July 28

eek said:

glw said:
FPT:

eek said:

glw said:
Regarding the OSA. I don't in principle object to age verification in some cases, although certainly not as broad as it is when the likes of Wikipedia are affected. What I can't understand is how the legislation is so badly drafted.

1. Not standardising the verification is plainly a big mistake. Ofcom isn't regulating verfication providers at all, and there are already many examples of trivial spoofing and issues with overreach and data protection.

2. Verfication would be a billion times easier if it was done on a client and end-user basis. Prove your age to Apple or Google once, and then have a frictionless zero-knowledge proof of age available for all apps and services, like any other permission you grant a web browser or app, such as location, camera access etc.

Ofcom have simply washed their hands of standardisation, regulation, and making the verification practical. Ofcom are plainly not competent to enforce the OSA in any meaningful way, and I'm certain will mainly make a song and dance of taking major sites to task when they inevitably get things wrong on occassion.

The OSA wants binning, as does Ofcom.
Were Ofcom the people who asked for OSA or merely the people told to sort it out without being given any resources to do so.

If the latter I’m not surprised they’ve done a quarter arsed job
I don't know but I heard the boss of Ofcom the other day and she acknowledged that most people will choose a VPN over repeatedly verifying their age by giving personal information to God knows who, she also didn't seem to have any issue with how verification was done and seemed to think "the market will decide" what is best. So the boss of Ofcom understands the issues, at least to a degree, but either doesn't feel she needs to push-back or is unwilling to publically voice any opposition, which in my book is more than enough for me to think she's not fit for the job. Any competent person running the organisation should have been telling the government this is a bad idea, it will not work as you want, and will have many bad unintended consequences (people using dodgy VPNs, visiting even dodgier websites, personal information leaks). A competent person would have said wait for standardisation, platform age verification, and regulate or inspect how it is implemented. Give it some sort of Kitemark if you will.

It was exasperating to listen to someone who seems to at least comprehend there are big problems, but also seems unwilling to do anything about them. What's the point of being the boss of Ofcom if you think all your job entails is doing the stupid things the government has told you to do?

Ofcom is another Ofwat in the making.
The problem is that Apple (and Google) told Ofcom where to stick the idea - which is why you end up with the current mess,

That isn’t the problem.

It heaps a vast amount of *pre-emptive* requirements on any kind of commenting platform.

Options

1) close all comments
2) allow comments to be posted only after vetting by a moderator
3) Have very, very deep pockets. And flesh eating lawyers. And time for lawsuits.

1) is easiest
2) kills most comment platforms
3) leaves the comments on the Daily Mail as the only ones in the UK. Nice

MattW · July 28

Surprisingly, on topic - TSE followed the off-topic subject I posted earlier

.

This is an interview by Bryan Tyler-Cohen with Patrick Harvie, about Mr Trump. He goes for him slightly, and is quite good on how US politics is widely simply disengaged from how Mr Trump has ripped it off its axis.

He also mentions the G word wrt Israel - again something I would expect, even for that audience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zYsQmvjvVY

MattW · July 28

Malmesbury said:

eek said:

glw said:
FPT:

eek said:

glw said:
Regarding the OSA. I don't in principle object to age verification in some cases, although certainly not as broad as it is when the likes of Wikipedia are affected. What I can't understand is how the legislation is so badly drafted.

1. Not standardising the verification is plainly a big mistake. Ofcom isn't regulating verfication providers at all, and there are already many examples of trivial spoofing and issues with overreach and data protection.

2. Verfication would be a billion times easier if it was done on a client and end-user basis. Prove your age to Apple or Google once, and then have a frictionless zero-knowledge proof of age available for all apps and services, like any other permission you grant a web browser or app, such as location, camera access etc.

Ofcom have simply washed their hands of standardisation, regulation, and making the verification practical. Ofcom are plainly not competent to enforce the OSA in any meaningful way, and I'm certain will mainly make a song and dance of taking major sites to task when they inevitably get things wrong on occassion.

The OSA wants binning, as does Ofcom.
Were Ofcom the people who asked for OSA or merely the people told to sort it out without being given any resources to do so.

If the latter I’m not surprised they’ve done a quarter arsed job
I don't know but I heard the boss of Ofcom the other day and she acknowledged that most people will choose a VPN over repeatedly verifying their age by giving personal information to God knows who, she also didn't seem to have any issue with how verification was done and seemed to think "the market will decide" what is best. So the boss of Ofcom understands the issues, at least to a degree, but either doesn't feel she needs to push-back or is unwilling to publically voice any opposition, which in my book is more than enough for me to think she's not fit for the job. Any competent person running the organisation should have been telling the government this is a bad idea, it will not work as you want, and will have many bad unintended consequences (people using dodgy VPNs, visiting even dodgier websites, personal information leaks). A competent person would have said wait for standardisation, platform age verification, and regulate or inspect how it is implemented. Give it some sort of Kitemark if you will.

It was exasperating to listen to someone who seems to at least comprehend there are big problems, but also seems unwilling to do anything about them. What's the point of being the boss of Ofcom if you think all your job entails is doing the stupid things the government has told you to do?

Ofcom is another Ofwat in the making.
The problem is that Apple (and Google) told Ofcom where to stick the idea - which is why you end up with the current mess,
That isn’t the problem.

It heaps a vast amount of *pre-emptive* requirements on any kind of commenting platform.

Options

1) close all comments
2) allow comments to be posted only after vetting by a moderator
3) Have very, very deep pockets. And flesh eating lawyers. And time for lawsuits.

1) is easiest
2) kills most comment platforms
3) leaves the comments on the Daily Mail as the only ones in the UK. Nice

Has anyone tried the mugshot verification?

Google Chrome does not want to talk to my camera !

Taz · July 28

Does anyone know what sites these are ? I need to ensure I avoid them.

kinabalu · July 28

The thing is, a Sindy vote needs Westminster permission and this can be denied regardless of Holyrood results. It was denied recently despite the SNP/Greens comprising a pro-indy majority in the Scottish parliament. Do people think Westminster would have granted the vote if the majority had been pure SNP and no Greens? I don't.

MattW · July 28

MattW said:
Surprisingly, on topic - TSE followed the off-topic subject I posted earlier .

This is an interview by Bryan Tyler-Cohen with Patrick Harvie, about Mr Trump. He goes for him slightly, and is quite good on how US politics is widely simply disengaged from how Mr Trump has ripped it off its axis.

He also mentions the G word wrt Israel - again something I would expect, even for that audience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zYsQmvjvVY

Typo: something I would NOT expect.

(Incidentally, President Trump having a pop at Sadiq Khan, whilst Keir Starmer adopts the manner of Douglas Hurd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXTGHRxkzlo)

PoodleInASlipstream · July 28

Malmesbury said:

That isn’t the problem.

It heaps a vast amount of *pre-emptive* requirements on any kind of commenting platform.

Options

1) close all comments
2) allow comments to be posted only after vetting by a moderator
3) Have very, very deep pockets. And flesh eating lawyers. And time for lawsuits.

1) is easiest
2) kills most comment platforms
3) leaves the comments on the Daily Mail as the only ones in the UK. Nice

Yes, that's why the OSA is a death blow for small forums. It makes the operators liable for any breaches of the act, with significant penalties. The safest course is to stop accepting any user content at all.

One effect is yet more concentration of power in the hands of large entities that can afford ID checking systems, risk assessments and compliance audits. Reddit was basically started by a couple of guys in a bedroom. The OSA means that will never happen in the UK. No site that is based on user content will be able to get off the ground without significant funding.

Andy_JS · July 28

Squirmy moment for Starmer.

"GB Politics
@GBPolitcs
🚨NEW: Donald Trump tells Keir Starmer that if he wants to beat Nigel Farage, he needs to cut taxes and deal with immigration & crime"

https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/1949834574676074599

viewcode · July 28

eek said:

glw said:
FPT:

eek said:

glw said:
Regarding the OSA. I don't in principle object to age verification in some cases, although certainly not as broad as it is when the likes of Wikipedia are affected. What I can't understand is how the legislation is so badly drafted.

1. Not standardising the verification is plainly a big mistake. Ofcom isn't regulating verfication providers at all, and there are already many examples of trivial spoofing and issues with overreach and data protection.

2. Verfication would be a billion times easier if it was done on a client and end-user basis. Prove your age to Apple or Google once, and then have a frictionless zero-knowledge proof of age available for all apps and services, like any other permission you grant a web browser or app, such as location, camera access etc.

Ofcom have simply washed their hands of standardisation, regulation, and making the verification practical. Ofcom are plainly not competent to enforce the OSA in any meaningful way, and I'm certain will mainly make a song and dance of taking major sites to task when they inevitably get things wrong on occassion.

The OSA wants binning, as does Ofcom.
Were Ofcom the people who asked for OSA or merely the people told to sort it out without being given any resources to do so.

If the latter I’m not surprised they’ve done a quarter arsed job
I don't know but I heard the boss of Ofcom the other day and she acknowledged that most people will choose a VPN over repeatedly verifying their age by giving personal information to God knows who, she also didn't seem to have any issue with how verification was done and seemed to think "the market will decide" what is best. So the boss of Ofcom understands the issues, at least to a degree, but either doesn't feel she needs to push-back or is unwilling to publically voice any opposition, which in my book is more than enough for me to think she's not fit for the job. Any competent person running the organisation should have been telling the government this is a bad idea, it will not work as you want, and will have many bad unintended consequences (people using dodgy VPNs, visiting even dodgier websites, personal information leaks). A competent person would have said wait for standardisation, platform age verification, and regulate or inspect how it is implemented. Give it some sort of Kitemark if you will.

It was exasperating to listen to someone who seems to at least comprehend there are big problems, but also seems unwilling to do anything about them. What's the point of being the boss of Ofcom if you think all your job entails is doing the stupid things the government has told you to do?

Ofcom is another Ofwat in the making.
The problem is that Apple (and Google) told Ofcom where to stick the idea - which is why you end up with the current mess,

You purchase a adultcard and an adultcardreader from the govt
Pornsite asks you for a 16-digit code
You insert adultcard into adultcardreader and press "generatecode"
Adultcardreader generates 16-digit code
You enter that into pornsite and watch your salacious train-related porn, you cheeky PBer you
Govt never knows about it

The device is verified, not you.

kinabalu · July 28

PoodleInASlipstream said:
The petition to repeal the OSA just passed 350,000 and the Government has posted a response. The meat of it is:

"The Government has no plans to repeal the Online Safety Act, and is working closely with Ofcom to implement the Act as quickly and effectively as possible to enable UK users to benefit from its protections."

So, basically "go fuck yourselves peasants" (18+ only, photo ID required).

They are very, very determined to see Nigel Farage in Number 10.

Why does not repealing a law just because there's a petition equate to "gfy peasants"?

ohnotnow · July 28

Malmesbury said:

eek said:

glw said:
FPT:

eek said:

glw said:
Regarding the OSA. I don't in principle object to age verification in some cases, although certainly not as broad as it is when the likes of Wikipedia are affected. What I can't understand is how the legislation is so badly drafted.

1. Not standardising the verification is plainly a big mistake. Ofcom isn't regulating verfication providers at all, and there are already many examples of trivial spoofing and issues with overreach and data protection.

2. Verfication would be a billion times easier if it was done on a client and end-user basis. Prove your age to Apple or Google once, and then have a frictionless zero-knowledge proof of age available for all apps and services, like any other permission you grant a web browser or app, such as location, camera access etc.

Ofcom have simply washed their hands of standardisation, regulation, and making the verification practical. Ofcom are plainly not competent to enforce the OSA in any meaningful way, and I'm certain will mainly make a song and dance of taking major sites to task when they inevitably get things wrong on occassion.

The OSA wants binning, as does Ofcom.
Were Ofcom the people who asked for OSA or merely the people told to sort it out without being given any resources to do so.

If the latter I’m not surprised they’ve done a quarter arsed job
I don't know but I heard the boss of Ofcom the other day and she acknowledged that most people will choose a VPN over repeatedly verifying their age by giving personal information to God knows who, she also didn't seem to have any issue with how verification was done and seemed to think "the market will decide" what is best. So the boss of Ofcom understands the issues, at least to a degree, but either doesn't feel she needs to push-back or is unwilling to publically voice any opposition, which in my book is more than enough for me to think she's not fit for the job. Any competent person running the organisation should have been telling the government this is a bad idea, it will not work as you want, and will have many bad unintended consequences (people using dodgy VPNs, visiting even dodgier websites, personal information leaks). A competent person would have said wait for standardisation, platform age verification, and regulate or inspect how it is implemented. Give it some sort of Kitemark if you will.

It was exasperating to listen to someone who seems to at least comprehend there are big problems, but also seems unwilling to do anything about them. What's the point of being the boss of Ofcom if you think all your job entails is doing the stupid things the government has told you to do?

Ofcom is another Ofwat in the making.
The problem is that Apple (and Google) told Ofcom where to stick the idea - which is why you end up with the current mess,
That isn’t the problem.

It heaps a vast amount of *pre-emptive* requirements on any kind of commenting platform.

Options

1) close all comments
2) allow comments to be posted only after vetting by a moderator
3) Have very, very deep pockets. And flesh eating lawyers. And time for lawsuits.

1) is easiest
2) kills most comment platforms
3) leaves the comments on the Daily Mail as the only ones in the UK. Nice

I wrote a little script a while back that looked through user posts and gave them a rating on how 'iffy' they seemed, and why using OpenAI's free moderation API. It would only report in on what it had found that seemed 'iffy or above'. It wouldn't take any moderation action itself unless it crossed a threshold or rules you set. (eg, a politics forum might be quite strict, one about trains would expect to be full of filth).

Someone will produce a tarted up version and sell it, I expect. If anyone is interested - the docs are here https://platform.openai.com/docs/guides/moderation - very easy to use.

StillWaters · July 28

eek said:

OldKingCole said:
First? Really? Like the SNP at the next Holyrood elections?
I can see the logic if the aim is to justify an SNP move away from Independece will solve all problems approach

Nah, he thinks that the unionist vote will split 4 ways and the SNP will win a majority

Trying to build the conditions whereby he can claim legitimacy for independence from a Holyrood vote even though it is ultra vires

Theuniondivvie · July 28

Ok, I didn’t have Yahweh is Hamas on my bingo card.

https://x.com/amiraminimd/status/1949777723460571422?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

Sunil_Prasannan · July 28

Andy_JS said:
If people on the internet had to post comments with their real names it might make them more responsible in what they post.

I wouldn't know...

wooliedyed · July 28

More people have now signed up for email updates from the dried fruits than there are grains of sand on a beach.
The people are hungry for pretendy communism

Nigelb · July 28

So that's who's to blame.

...Trump: Whoever was the prime minister at the time who I know who it was..
https://x.com/Acyn/status/1949513125688193454

Dopermean · July 28

Andy_JS said:
Squirmy moment for Starmer.

"GB Politics
@GBPolitcs
🚨NEW: Donald Trump tells Keir Starmer that if he wants to beat Nigel Farage, he needs to cut taxes and deal with immigration & crime"

https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/1949834574676074599

Would Trump get elected in the UK?
He can stick it with his golf tips.

Less awkward than the personal attack on Sadiq Khan.

Dopermean · July 28

Taz said:

Does anyone know what sites these are ? I need to ensure I avoid them.

Is this confirmation that LBC is full of w....

kinabalu · July 28

StillWaters said:

eek said:

OldKingCole said:
First? Really? Like the SNP at the next Holyrood elections?
I can see the logic if the aim is to justify an SNP move away from Independece will solve all problems approach
Nah, he thinks that the unionist vote will split 4 ways and the SNP will win a majority

Trying to build the conditions whereby he can claim legitimacy for independence from a Holyrood vote even though it is ultra vires

Well what's the alternative other than "it's purely down to Westminster, so there's no point us even agitating for it"?

kle4 · July 28

StillWaters said:

eek said:

OldKingCole said:
First? Really? Like the SNP at the next Holyrood elections?
I can see the logic if the aim is to justify an SNP move away from Independece will solve all problems approach
Nah, he thinks that the unionist vote will split 4 ways and the SNP will win a majority

Trying to build the conditions whereby he can claim legitimacy for independence from a Holyrood vote even though it is ultra vires

Seems as good a strategy as any.

MattW · July 28

What does PB do to traffic from VPNs?

(Notes in passing that the Browser known as Opera has a built-in free VPN. Back in the day it used to have built in Bit Torrent. Though also notes in passing that it started out Norwegian, but is now majority Chinese owned whilst being listed on NASDAQ.)

kle4 · July 28

kinabalu said:

PoodleInASlipstream said:
The petition to repeal the OSA just passed 350,000 and the Government has posted a response. The meat of it is:

"The Government has no plans to repeal the Online Safety Act, and is working closely with Ofcom to implement the Act as quickly and effectively as possible to enable UK users to benefit from its protections."

So, basically "go fuck yourselves peasants" (18+ only, photo ID required).

They are very, very determined to see Nigel Farage in Number 10.
Why does not repealing a law just because there's a petition equate to "gfy peasants"?

It doesn't. I support the petition's aims, and ignoring it may be a mistake, but I fear the government will get it right by just ignoring it for now. Give it a few years and no one will even bother to talk about repealing.

kle4 · July 28

Taz said:

Does anyone know what sites these are ? I need to ensure I avoid them.

Not the one in the screenshot, for one, which probably confused many at first glance of the story hoping for tips.

MattW · July 28

viewcode said:

eek said:

glw said:
FPT:

eek said:

glw said:
Regarding the OSA. I don't in principle object to age verification in some cases, although certainly not as broad as it is when the likes of Wikipedia are affected. What I can't understand is how the legislation is so badly drafted.

1. Not standardising the verification is plainly a big mistake. Ofcom isn't regulating verfication providers at all, and there are already many examples of trivial spoofing and issues with overreach and data protection.

2. Verfication would be a billion times easier if it was done on a client and end-user basis. Prove your age to Apple or Google once, and then have a frictionless zero-knowledge proof of age available for all apps and services, like any other permission you grant a web browser or app, such as location, camera access etc.

Ofcom have simply washed their hands of standardisation, regulation, and making the verification practical. Ofcom are plainly not competent to enforce the OSA in any meaningful way, and I'm certain will mainly make a song and dance of taking major sites to task when they inevitably get things wrong on occassion.

The OSA wants binning, as does Ofcom.
Were Ofcom the people who asked for OSA or merely the people told to sort it out without being given any resources to do so.

If the latter I’m not surprised they’ve done a quarter arsed job
I don't know but I heard the boss of Ofcom the other day and she acknowledged that most people will choose a VPN over repeatedly verifying their age by giving personal information to God knows who, she also didn't seem to have any issue with how verification was done and seemed to think "the market will decide" what is best. So the boss of Ofcom understands the issues, at least to a degree, but either doesn't feel she needs to push-back or is unwilling to publically voice any opposition, which in my book is more than enough for me to think she's not fit for the job. Any competent person running the organisation should have been telling the government this is a bad idea, it will not work as you want, and will have many bad unintended consequences (people using dodgy VPNs, visiting even dodgier websites, personal information leaks). A competent person would have said wait for standardisation, platform age verification, and regulate or inspect how it is implemented. Give it some sort of Kitemark if you will.

It was exasperating to listen to someone who seems to at least comprehend there are big problems, but also seems unwilling to do anything about them. What's the point of being the boss of Ofcom if you think all your job entails is doing the stupid things the government has told you to do?

Ofcom is another Ofwat in the making.
The problem is that Apple (and Google) told Ofcom where to stick the idea - which is why you end up with the current mess,

You purchase a adultcard and an adultcardreader from the govt
Pornsite asks you for a 16-digit code
You insert adultcard into adultcardreader and press "generatecode"
Adultcardreader generates 16-digit code
You enter that into pornsite and watch your salacious train-related porn, you cheeky PBer you
Govt never knows about it
The device is verified, not you.

See ID Card politics.

wooliedyed · July 28

https://x.com/YouGov/status/1949870531911569826?s=19

Interestingly the anti strike sentiment creeping into nurses - much narrower support than previous times.
Conservatives more agin than Reformers although Reform go for more strongly opposed hardliners.

StillWaters · July 28

kinabalu said:

StillWaters said:

eek said:

OldKingCole said:
First? Really? Like the SNP at the next Holyrood elections?
I can see the logic if the aim is to justify an SNP move away from Independece will solve all problems approach
Nah, he thinks that the unionist vote will split 4 ways and the SNP will win a majority

Trying to build the conditions whereby he can claim legitimacy for independence from a Holyrood vote even though it is ultra vires
Well what's the alternative other than "it's purely down to Westminster, so there's no point us even agitating for it"?

Negotiations with Westminster isn’t a spiky enough approach for the more radical wing of the SNP. But it’s the only one with legitimacy

rottenborough · July 28

MattW said:
What does PB do to traffic from VPNs?

(Notes in passing that the Browser known as Opera has a built-in free VPN. Back in the day it used to have built in Bit Torrent. Though also notes in passing that it started out Norwegian, but is now majority Chinese owned whilst being listed on NASDAQ.)

Opera is now owned by China? I did not know that.

Theuniondivvie · July 28

kinabalu said:

StillWaters said:

eek said:

OldKingCole said:
First? Really? Like the SNP at the next Holyrood elections?
I can see the logic if the aim is to justify an SNP move away from Independece will solve all problems approach
Nah, he thinks that the unionist vote will split 4 ways and the SNP will win a majority

Trying to build the conditions whereby he can claim legitimacy for independence from a Holyrood vote even though it is ultra vires
Well what's the alternative other than "it's purely down to Westminster, so there's no point us even agitating for it"?

I believe the traditional PB position is that the SNP should govern in a Westminster appeasing, fiscally conservative, non-Indy aspiring way for several decades so people who can’t vote for them (and wouldn’t if they could) have peace of mind.

MattW · July 28

rottenborough said:

MattW said:
What does PB do to traffic from VPNs?

(Notes in passing that the Browser known as Opera has a built-in free VPN. Back in the day it used to have built in Bit Torrent. Though also notes in passing that it started out Norwegian, but is now majority Chinese owned whilst being listed on NASDAQ.)
Opera is now owned by China? I did not know that.

Surprise to me, too.

Taz · July 28

kle4 said:

Taz said:

Does anyone know what sites these are ? I need to ensure I avoid them.
Not the one in the screenshot, for one, which probably confused many at first glance of the story hoping for tips.

Literally, on the free sites.

kle4 · July 28

Theuniondivvie said:

kinabalu said:

StillWaters said:

eek said:

OldKingCole said:
First? Really? Like the SNP at the next Holyrood elections?
I can see the logic if the aim is to justify an SNP move away from Independece will solve all problems approach
Nah, he thinks that the unionist vote will split 4 ways and the SNP will win a majority

Trying to build the conditions whereby he can claim legitimacy for independence from a Holyrood vote even though it is ultra vires
Well what's the alternative other than "it's purely down to Westminster, so there's no point us even agitating for it"?
I believe the traditional PB position is that the SNP should govern in a Westminster appeasing, fiscally conservative, non-Indy aspiring way for several decades so people who can’t vote for them (and wouldn’t if they could) have peace of mind.

I've always said you've got to give nations time, around 500 years or so, before making changes, it's only reasonable.

StillWaters · July 28

kle4 said:

Taz said:

Does anyone know what sites these are ? I need to ensure I avoid them.
Not the one in the screenshot, for one, which probably confused many at first glance of the story hoping for tips.

Thank you for researching on behalf of the site. It’s dirty work but someone has to do it

Taz · July 28

StillWaters said:

kle4 said:

Taz said:

Does anyone know what sites these are ? I need to ensure I avoid them.
Not the one in the screenshot, for one, which probably confused many at first glance of the story hoping for tips.
Thank you for researching on behalf of the site. It’s dirty work but someone has to do it

I’m sure it’s quite a burden the research, certainly a heavy load for someone to bear

MattW · July 28

Hmmm.

IF millions of Brits swap to VPN, does that mean we will all suddenly be fed with adverts for local products. And the metrics ... the metrics.

PB seems to be happy with me surfing on in via West AFrica. But I am logged in.

Theuniondivvie · July 28

Uh oh.

Bustin' Jowie
@justinbowie1997
https://thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/scottish-politics/5297419/sandie-peggie-nhs-fife-flood-victims-racist-posts/

EXCLUSIVE: NHS Fife nurse Sandie Peggie mocked victims of Pakistan floods in series of racist posts

https://x.com/justinbowie1997/status/1949826017616429511

Luckyguy1983 · July 28

Theuniondivvie said:
Ok, I didn’t have Yahweh is Hamas on my bingo card.

https://x.com/amiraminimd/status/1949777723460571422?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

I met him a few years ago when I worked in Scotch whisky. Chatted for a short while. Seemed more interested in the finances of it all than anything else, which is of course fine. Not a big smiler.

theProle · July 28

MattW said:
What does PB do to traffic from VPNs?

(Notes in passing that the Browser known as Opera has a built-in free VPN. Back in the day it used to have built in Bit Torrent. Though also notes in passing that it started out Norwegian, but is now majority Chinese owned whilst being listed on NASDAQ.)

Opera also has the most aggressive/powerful ad blocking, particularly for mobile. Chrome has always had a conflict of interest over ad blockers (block too well and it hurts the Google mothership in the wallet), the devs behind Opera have never been troubled by such considerations.

I've used it as my standard desktop and mobile browser for well over 20 years. I had an install of it on my school account at 6th form - all the school's censorship tools only worked against C++ aps and I'm that era at least Opera was running Java so circumvented the lot. (This was also a school system where each user account had a config file stored as part of their user files - I discovered that one could edit that, and then award oneself admin rights to the whole school).

kinabalu · July 28

StillWaters said:

kinabalu said:

StillWaters said:

eek said:

OldKingCole said:
First? Really? Like the SNP at the next Holyrood elections?
I can see the logic if the aim is to justify an SNP move away from Independece will solve all problems approach
Nah, he thinks that the unionist vote will split 4 ways and the SNP will win a majority

Trying to build the conditions whereby he can claim legitimacy for independence from a Holyrood vote even though it is ultra vires
Well what's the alternative other than "it's purely down to Westminster, so there's no point us even agitating for it"?
Negotiations with Westminster isn’t a spiky enough approach for the more radical wing of the SNP. But it’s the only one with legitimacy

Claiming a mandate from the election (if they win) is exactly that - the opening of a negotiation.

Theuniondivvie · July 28

Luckyguy1983 said:

Theuniondivvie said:
Ok, I didn’t have Yahweh is Hamas on my bingo card.

https://x.com/amiraminimd/status/1949777723460571422?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
I met him a few years ago when I worked in Scotch whisky. Chatted for a short while. Seemed more interested in the finances of it all than anything else, which is of course fine. Not a big smiler.

Does a lot for charity I believe.

kinabalu · July 28

Luckyguy1983 said:

Theuniondivvie said:
Ok, I didn’t have Yahweh is Hamas on my bingo card.

https://x.com/amiraminimd/status/1949777723460571422?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
I met him a few years ago when I worked in Scotch whisky. Chatted for a short while. Seemed more interested in the finances of it all than anything else, which is of course fine. Not a big smiler.

I hope you defumigated when clocking off each day?

MattW · July 28

Luckyguy1983 said:

Theuniondivvie said:
Ok, I didn’t have Yahweh is Hamas on my bingo card.

https://x.com/amiraminimd/status/1949777723460571422?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
I met him a few years ago when I worked in Scotch whisky. Chatted for a short while. Seemed more interested in the finances of it all than anything else, which is of course fine. Not a big smiler.

I meant to say thanks for your answer re: JD Vance yesterday.

kinabalu · July 28

Theuniondivvie said:

kinabalu said:

StillWaters said:

eek said:

OldKingCole said:
First? Really? Like the SNP at the next Holyrood elections?
I can see the logic if the aim is to justify an SNP move away from Independece will solve all problems approach
Nah, he thinks that the unionist vote will split 4 ways and the SNP will win a majority

Trying to build the conditions whereby he can claim legitimacy for independence from a Holyrood vote even though it is ultra vires
Well what's the alternative other than "it's purely down to Westminster, so there's no point us even agitating for it"?
I believe the traditional PB position is that the SNP should govern in a Westminster appeasing, fiscally conservative, non-Indy aspiring way for several decades so people who can’t vote for them (and wouldn’t if they could) have peace of mind.

That's right. And after 50 years (ish) of government so good that text books are written about it the case for flying solo can be revisited. Possibly.

kle4 · July 28

Taz said:

StillWaters said:

kle4 said:

Taz said:

Does anyone know what sites these are ? I need to ensure I avoid them.
Not the one in the screenshot, for one, which probably confused many at first glance of the story hoping for tips.
Thank you for researching on behalf of the site. It’s dirty work but someone has to do it
I’m sure it’s quite a burden the research, certainly a heavy load for someone to bear

Don't worry, it's like I've been training for this moment all my life somehow.

Casino_Royale · July 28

wooliedyed said:
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1949870531911569826?s=19

Interestingly the anti strike sentiment creeping into nurses - much narrower support than previous times.
Conservatives more agin than Reformers although Reform go for more strongly opposed hardliners.

I think Junior Doctors have disappeared up their own arseholes.

Lots of people would love their pay restored in real terms to where it would have been on a pre-2008 trajectory, but a 50%+ bump over just two years just isn't reasonable.

kinabalu · July 28

Casino_Royale said:

wooliedyed said:
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1949870531911569826?s=19

Interestingly the anti strike sentiment creeping into nurses - much narrower support than previous times.
Conservatives more agin than Reformers although Reform go for more strongly opposed hardliners.
I think Junior Doctors have disappeared up their own arseholes.

Lots of people would love their pay restored in real terms to where it would have been on a pre-2008 trajectory, but a 50%+ bump over just two years just isn't reasonable.

I don't really support the doc strike but I think the ask is for pay to be returned in real terms to 08 levels not to where it would be now on a pre-08 trajectory?

Luckyguy1983 · July 28

Casino_Royale said:

wooliedyed said:
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1949870531911569826?s=19

Interestingly the anti strike sentiment creeping into nurses - much narrower support than previous times.
Conservatives more agin than Reformers although Reform go for more strongly opposed hardliners.
I think Junior Doctors have disappeared up their own arseholes.

Lots of people would love their pay restored in real terms to where it would have been on a pre-2008 trajectory, but a 50%+ bump over just two years just isn't reasonable.

Casino, are you a fan of Katie Lam? At first I though 'standard Cameronite wet apparent doing a bit of the righttie wingy thing to curry favour', but I was not unimpressed by her Spectator interview.

biggles · July 28

Taz said:

Does anyone know what sites these are ? I need to ensure I avoid them.

You can copy my homework if you like. Last week I explained to Mrs Biggles that it was about time we had a VPN to keep us safe when using WiFi networks.

It’s a bit like that old advert for private browsing windows - they are there for men to buy presents for their wives without ruining the surprise via the search history. Some people are so committed to not ruining the surprise that they routinely clear the router log.

DecrepiterJohnL · July 28

Dopermean said:

Taz said:

Does anyone know what sites these are ? I need to ensure I avoid them.
Is this confirmation that LBC is full of w....

If I've read it correctly, some do have age verification but LBC thinks it is not robust enough.

Malmesbury · July 28

PoodleInASlipstream said:

Malmesbury said:

That isn’t the problem.

It heaps a vast amount of *pre-emptive* requirements on any kind of commenting platform.

Options

1) close all comments
2) allow comments to be posted only after vetting by a moderator
3) Have very, very deep pockets. And flesh eating lawyers. And time for lawsuits.

1) is easiest
2) kills most comment platforms
3) leaves the comments on the Daily Mail as the only ones in the UK. Nice

Yes, that's why the OSA is a death blow for small forums. It makes the operators liable for any breaches of the act, with significant penalties. The safest course is to stop accepting any user content at all.

One effect is yet more concentration of power in the hands of large entities that can afford ID checking systems, risk assessments and compliance audits. Reddit was basically started by a couple of guys in a bedroom. The OSA means that will never happen in the UK. No site that is based on user content will be able to get off the ground without significant funding.

The Labour Party has a deep rooted dislike of small business - but are quite friendly to big corporates.

Casino_Royale · July 28

Luckyguy1983 said:

Casino_Royale said:

wooliedyed said:
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1949870531911569826?s=19

Interestingly the anti strike sentiment creeping into nurses - much narrower support than previous times.
Conservatives more agin than Reformers although Reform go for more strongly opposed hardliners.
I think Junior Doctors have disappeared up their own arseholes.

Lots of people would love their pay restored in real terms to where it would have been on a pre-2008 trajectory, but a 50%+ bump over just two years just isn't reasonable.
Casino, are you a fan of Katie Lam? At first I though 'standard Cameronite wet apparent doing a bit of the righttie wingy thing to curry favour', but I was not unimpressed by her Spectator interview.

Yes, I am.

DecrepiterJohnL · July 28

The story of when Alastair met Epstein... (one-minute video from The Rest is Politics):-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpXx3sQkGIQ

turbotubbs · July 28

Theuniondivvie said:
Uh oh.

Bustin' Jowie
@justinbowie1997
https://thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/scottish-politics/5297419/sandie-peggie-nhs-fife-flood-victims-racist-posts/

EXCLUSIVE: NHS Fife nurse Sandie Peggie mocked victims of Pakistan floods in series of racist posts

https://x.com/justinbowie1997/status/1949826017616429511

And?

The case isn’t about whether Peggie made a few off colour jokes on a WhatsApp group. It’s about single sex spaces and men going into them. It’s about NHS fife conspiring against Peggie because she is gender critical. It’s about Upton falsifying electronic notes after the alleged incident to make Peggie look bad (the interpretation of the computer expert). That Peggie might find Upton ‘weird’ is irrelevant.

DecrepiterJohnL · July 28

'Impossible hill to climb': US clouds crush European competition on their home turf
Local providers squeezed out despite market growth, leaving sovereignty hopes in question
https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/28/euro_cloud_vs_us/

Too bleeding obvious for our governments to have underwritten (or even founded) our own companies.

Casino_Royale · July 28

turbotubbs said:

Theuniondivvie said:
Uh oh.

Bustin' Jowie
@justinbowie1997
https://thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/scottish-politics/5297419/sandie-peggie-nhs-fife-flood-victims-racist-posts/

EXCLUSIVE: NHS Fife nurse Sandie Peggie mocked victims of Pakistan floods in series of racist posts

https://x.com/justinbowie1997/status/1949826017616429511
And?

The case isn’t about whether Peggie made a few off colour jokes on a WhatsApp group. It’s about single sex spaces and men going into them. It’s about NHS fife conspiring against Peggie because she is gender critical. It’s about Upton falsifying electronic notes after the alleged incident to make Peggie look bad (the interpretation of the computer expert). That Peggie might find Upton ‘weird’ is irrelevant.

If it's WhatsApp you could probably end 80% of everyone's careers based on what gets shared on those.

HYUFD · July 28

Former Brentwood council leader and ECC Deputy Leader Louise McKinlay is selected by Essex Conservative members as their candidate for the new Mayor of Essex election next year
https://x.com/LouiseMcKinlay/status/1949888910265323725

DecrepiterJohnL · July 28

Microsoft admits it 'cannot guarantee' data sovereignty
Under oath in French Senate, exec says it would be compelled – however unlikely – to pass local customer info to US admin
https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/25/microsoft_admits_it_cannot_guarantee/

Too late for us because Whitehall could not wait to sign on the dotted line.

Foxy · July 28

kinabalu said:

Casino_Royale said:

wooliedyed said:
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1949870531911569826?s=19

Interestingly the anti strike sentiment creeping into nurses - much narrower support than previous times.
Conservatives more agin than Reformers although Reform go for more strongly opposed hardliners.
I think Junior Doctors have disappeared up their own arseholes.

Lots of people would love their pay restored in real terms to where it would have been on a pre-2008 trajectory, but a 50%+ bump over just two years just isn't reasonable.
I don't really support the doc strike but I think the ask is for pay to be returned in real terms to 08 levels not to where it would be now on a pre-08 trajectory?

Yes, and it is worth noting that pay in other similar skilled areas is now above 2008 levels.

That said, my unions is not balloting as the indicative survey showed no enthusiasm for another Consultant strike. I don't think very many have struck this time, activity around my department is pretty much as usual.

It does look as if the Residents and Streeting were close to agreement, with major progress on non-pay issues*, but the BMA leadership insisted on a strike as the ballot was about pay.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/27/wes-streeting-thought-he-had-struck-deal-to-halt-strike-by-doctors?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

*it's these that cause most disaffection in my straw poll of ours.

Mexicanpete · July 28

...

HYUFD said:
Former Brentwood council leader and ECC Deputy Leader Louise McKinlay is selected by Essex Conservative members as their candidate for the new Mayor of Essex election next year
https://x.com/LouiseMcKinlay/status/1949888910265323725

Wiser if she'd gone Reform.

PoodleInASlipstream · July 28

kinabalu said:

PoodleInASlipstream said:
The petition to repeal the OSA just passed 350,000 and the Government has posted a response. The meat of it is:

"The Government has no plans to repeal the Online Safety Act, and is working closely with Ofcom to implement the Act as quickly and effectively as possible to enable UK users to benefit from its protections."

So, basically "go fuck yourselves peasants" (18+ only, photo ID required).

They are very, very determined to see Nigel Farage in Number 10.
Why does not repealing a law just because there's a petition equate to "gfy peasants"?

Getting 350,000 to sign up in 4 days indicates a high degree of concern about the OSA. The gov response not only ignores this concern completely, but stresses the act will be implemented 'quickly and effectively'. That looks like a pretty big f-you to me.

The response reeks of 'we know better' - the unwashed masses will not be permitted to interfere. It also sets out a number of scenarios that sound nice and benign, unless you've actually looked at the text of the act and understand they are all utter bollocks and directly contrary to the provisions of the act. They're assuming we're all too dumb to realise that.

noneoftheabove · July 28

Foxy said:

kinabalu said:

Casino_Royale said:

wooliedyed said:
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1949870531911569826?s=19

Interestingly the anti strike sentiment creeping into nurses - much narrower support than previous times.
Conservatives more agin than Reformers although Reform go for more strongly opposed hardliners.
I think Junior Doctors have disappeared up their own arseholes.

Lots of people would love their pay restored in real terms to where it would have been on a pre-2008 trajectory, but a 50%+ bump over just two years just isn't reasonable.
I don't really support the doc strike but I think the ask is for pay to be returned in real terms to 08 levels not to where it would be now on a pre-08 trajectory?
Yes, and it is worth noting that pay in other similar skilled areas is now above 2008 levels.

That said, my unions is not balloting as the indicative survey showed no enthusiasm for another Consultant strike. I don't think very many have struck this time, activity around my department is pretty much as usual.

It does look as if the Residents and Streeting were close to agreement, with major progress on non-pay issues*, but the BMA leadership insisted on a strike as the ballot was about pay.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/27/wes-streeting-thought-he-had-struck-deal-to-halt-strike-by-doctors?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

*it's these that cause most disaffection in my straw poll of ours.

There is nothing sacred about 2008 levels that make them relevant for 2025. Why not 2001 or 2014 or whatever?

A far better argument is supply and demand, given we struggle to retain and recruit enough doctors.

As an outsider it would seem appropriate to pay "junior" doctors more and the "senior" ones at the top end less.

carnforth · July 28

One for Emily Thornberry.

HYUFD · July 28

Mexicanpete said:
...
HYUFD said:
Former Brentwood council leader and ECC Deputy Leader Louise McKinlay is selected by Essex Conservative members as their candidate for the new Mayor of Essex election next year
https://x.com/LouiseMcKinlay/status/1949888910265323725
Wiser if she'd gone Reform.

She certainly won't go Reform, she is a Kemi loyalist.

Other candidates were PFCC Roger Hirst and multimillionaire CEO of Partyman Group (which has also bought the Middletons' PartyPieces) and Rossi ice cream James Sinclair.

Sinclair has posed with Farage before and I would not be completely shocked if having lost the Tory nomination he now defected to Reform to try and get their nomination for Mayor
https://www.facebook.com/GBNewsOnline/photos/a.128599945939843/381091510690684/?type=3&_rdr

Foxy · July 28

PoodleInASlipstream said:

kinabalu said:

PoodleInASlipstream said:
The petition to repeal the OSA just passed 350,000 and the Government has posted a response. The meat of it is:

"The Government has no plans to repeal the Online Safety Act, and is working closely with Ofcom to implement the Act as quickly and effectively as possible to enable UK users to benefit from its protections."

So, basically "go fuck yourselves peasants" (18+ only, photo ID required).

They are very, very determined to see Nigel Farage in Number 10.
Why does not repealing a law just because there's a petition equate to "gfy peasants"?
Getting 350,000 to sign up in 4 days indicates a high degree of concern about the OSA. The gov response not only ignores this concern completely, but stresses the act will be implemented 'quickly and effectively'. That looks like a pretty big f-you to me.

The response reeks of 'we know better' - the unwashed masses will not be permitted to interfere. It also sets out a number of scenarios that sound nice and benign, unless you've actually looked at the text of the act and understand they are all utter bollocks and directly contrary to the provisions of the act. They're assuming we're all too dumb to realise that.

In time there will be a better form of age verification that doesn't look like data phishing, or a VPN controlled by dark forces.

Getting Social Media to be responsible for some of the stuff it promulgates is long overdue.

Theuniondivvie · July 28

turbotubbs said:

Theuniondivvie said:
Uh oh.

Bustin' Jowie
@justinbowie1997
https://thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/scottish-politics/5297419/sandie-peggie-nhs-fife-flood-victims-racist-posts/

EXCLUSIVE: NHS Fife nurse Sandie Peggie mocked victims of Pakistan floods in series of racist posts

https://x.com/justinbowie1997/status/1949826017616429511
And?

The case isn’t about whether Peggie made a few off colour jokes on a WhatsApp group. It’s about single sex spaces and men going into them. It’s about NHS fife conspiring against Peggie because she is gender critical. It’s about Upton falsifying electronic notes after the alleged incident to make Peggie look bad (the interpretation of the computer expert). That Peggie might find Upton ‘weird’ is irrelevant.

A few off colour(sic) jokes? At least I now know what your benchmark is.

The folk saying she's a heroine and an inspiration with grace, class and a strong moral backbone must feel a bit dumb.

Casino_Royale · July 28

Theuniondivvie said:

turbotubbs said:

Theuniondivvie said:
Uh oh.

Bustin' Jowie
@justinbowie1997
https://thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/scottish-politics/5297419/sandie-peggie-nhs-fife-flood-victims-racist-posts/

EXCLUSIVE: NHS Fife nurse Sandie Peggie mocked victims of Pakistan floods in series of racist posts

https://x.com/justinbowie1997/status/1949826017616429511
And?

The case isn’t about whether Peggie made a few off colour jokes on a WhatsApp group. It’s about single sex spaces and men going into them. It’s about NHS fife conspiring against Peggie because she is gender critical. It’s about Upton falsifying electronic notes after the alleged incident to make Peggie look bad (the interpretation of the computer expert). That Peggie might find Upton ‘weird’ is irrelevant.
A few off colour(sic) jokes? At least I now know what your benchmark is.

The folk saying she's a heroine and an inspiration with grace, class and a strong moral backbone must feel a bit dumb.

How clean is your WhatsApp?

noneoftheabove · July 28

Malmesbury said:

PoodleInASlipstream said:

Malmesbury said:

That isn’t the problem.

It heaps a vast amount of *pre-emptive* requirements on any kind of commenting platform.

Options

1) close all comments
2) allow comments to be posted only after vetting by a moderator
3) Have very, very deep pockets. And flesh eating lawyers. And time for lawsuits.

1) is easiest
2) kills most comment platforms
3) leaves the comments on the Daily Mail as the only ones in the UK. Nice

Yes, that's why the OSA is a death blow for small forums. It makes the operators liable for any breaches of the act, with significant penalties. The safest course is to stop accepting any user content at all.

One effect is yet more concentration of power in the hands of large entities that can afford ID checking systems, risk assessments and compliance audits. Reddit was basically started by a couple of guys in a bedroom. The OSA means that will never happen in the UK. No site that is based on user content will be able to get off the ground without significant funding.
The Labour Party has a deep rooted dislike of small business - but are quite friendly to big corporates.

And yet has reduced employer NI for small business whilst increasing it for big corporates, shifting the balance in talent recruitment a tad.

kinabalu · July 28

Foxy said:

kinabalu said:

Casino_Royale said:

wooliedyed said:
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1949870531911569826?s=19

Interestingly the anti strike sentiment creeping into nurses - much narrower support than previous times.
Conservatives more agin than Reformers although Reform go for more strongly opposed hardliners.
I think Junior Doctors have disappeared up their own arseholes.

Lots of people would love their pay restored in real terms to where it would have been on a pre-2008 trajectory, but a 50%+ bump over just two years just isn't reasonable.
I don't really support the doc strike but I think the ask is for pay to be returned in real terms to 08 levels not to where it would be now on a pre-08 trajectory?
Yes, and it is worth noting that pay in other similar skilled areas is now above 2008 levels.

That said, my unions is not balloting as the indicative survey showed no enthusiasm for another Consultant strike. I don't think very many have struck this time, activity around my department is pretty much as usual.

It does look as if the Residents and Streeting were close to agreement, with major progress on non-pay issues*, but the BMA leadership insisted on a strike as the ballot was about pay.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/27/wes-streeting-thought-he-had-struck-deal-to-halt-strike-by-doctors?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

*it's these that cause most disaffection in my straw poll of ours.

Well I keep hearing pay in the UK has been stagnant in real terms since 08. Put another way this means people's pay in general *is* at 08 levels.

Theuniondivvie · July 28

carnforth said:

One for Emily Thornberry.

Also one for the Jocks.

https://x.com/msm_monitor/status/1949811075861430760

HYUFD · July 28

Swinney likes being FM and a manager, he is not an indy nationalist diehard like Salmond was and is even less fervent for independence than Sturgeon was.

He has set such a high threshold for independence ie an SNP majority as he knows he won't meet it with Reform on the rise even north of the border and some pro independence backers going Alba and Green so he can then focus on the day job

Malmesbury · July 28

noneoftheabove said:

Malmesbury said:

PoodleInASlipstream said:

Malmesbury said:

That isn’t the problem.

It heaps a vast amount of *pre-emptive* requirements on any kind of commenting platform.

Options

1) close all comments
2) allow comments to be posted only after vetting by a moderator
3) Have very, very deep pockets. And flesh eating lawyers. And time for lawsuits.

1) is easiest
2) kills most comment platforms
3) leaves the comments on the Daily Mail as the only ones in the UK. Nice

Yes, that's why the OSA is a death blow for small forums. It makes the operators liable for any breaches of the act, with significant penalties. The safest course is to stop accepting any user content at all.

One effect is yet more concentration of power in the hands of large entities that can afford ID checking systems, risk assessments and compliance audits. Reddit was basically started by a couple of guys in a bedroom. The OSA means that will never happen in the UK. No site that is based on user content will be able to get off the ground without significant funding.
The Labour Party has a deep rooted dislike of small business - but are quite friendly to big corporates.
And yet has reduced employer NI for small business whilst increasing it for big corporates, shifting the balance in talent recruitment a tad.

The tons of pointless check box regulation (that doesn’t actually regulate) is much easier to absorb if you are a big firm.

The metric tons of paperwork that proved the Grenfell was 115% safe and compliant wouldn’t just write themselves, you know.

Foxy · July 28

noneoftheabove said:

Foxy said:

kinabalu said:

Casino_Royale said:

wooliedyed said:
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1949870531911569826?s=19

Interestingly the anti strike sentiment creeping into nurses - much narrower support than previous times.
Conservatives more agin than Reformers although Reform go for more strongly opposed hardliners.
I think Junior Doctors have disappeared up their own arseholes.

Lots of people would love their pay restored in real terms to where it would have been on a pre-2008 trajectory, but a 50%+ bump over just two years just isn't reasonable.
I don't really support the doc strike but I think the ask is for pay to be returned in real terms to 08 levels not to where it would be now on a pre-08 trajectory?
Yes, and it is worth noting that pay in other similar skilled areas is now above 2008 levels.

That said, my unions is not balloting as the indicative survey showed no enthusiasm for another Consultant strike. I don't think very many have struck this time, activity around my department is pretty much as usual.

It does look as if the Residents and Streeting were close to agreement, with major progress on non-pay issues*, but the BMA leadership insisted on a strike as the ballot was about pay.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/27/wes-streeting-thought-he-had-struck-deal-to-halt-strike-by-doctors?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

*it's these that cause most disaffection in my straw poll of ours.
There is nothing sacred about 2008 levels that make them relevant for 2025. Why not 2001 or 2014 or whatever?

A far better argument is supply and demand, given we struggle to retain and recruit enough doctors.

As an outsider it would seem appropriate to pay "junior" doctors more and the "senior" ones at the top end less.

I haven't struck in any of the industrial action myself.

There are major recruitment and retention issues at the top end too.

One reason that Streeting should expand postgraduate training (most specialities have the same numbers of trainees as 2007) is that it is a double whammy. It makes the Residents happy, and it fills senior vacancies. Give priority to domestic graduates and he would get firm approval.

It makes no sense to expand undergraduate numbers, only for them to become unemployed, or emmigrants because of lack of postgraduate posts.

Theuniondivvie · July 28

Casino_Royale said:

Theuniondivvie said:

turbotubbs said:

Theuniondivvie said:
Uh oh.

Bustin' Jowie
@justinbowie1997
https://thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/scottish-politics/5297419/sandie-peggie-nhs-fife-flood-victims-racist-posts/

EXCLUSIVE: NHS Fife nurse Sandie Peggie mocked victims of Pakistan floods in series of racist posts

https://x.com/justinbowie1997/status/1949826017616429511
And?

The case isn’t about whether Peggie made a few off colour jokes on a WhatsApp group. It’s about single sex spaces and men going into them. It’s about NHS fife conspiring against Peggie because she is gender critical. It’s about Upton falsifying electronic notes after the alleged incident to make Peggie look bad (the interpretation of the computer expert). That Peggie might find Upton ‘weird’ is irrelevant.
A few off colour(sic) jokes? At least I now know what your benchmark is.

The folk saying she's a heroine and an inspiration with grace, class and a strong moral backbone must feel a bit dumb.
How clean is your WhatsApp?

Don't think I've 'hilariously' suggested that I'd put bacon through the letterbox of a newly built mosque, but my memory isn't what it used to be.

solarflare · July 28

The whole thing is largely irrelevant because the SNP, either through blind stubbornness, idiocy, or just possibly because simply they don't *really* want independence, continue to push the rather one-dimensional line that Westminster can't ignore a strong SNP election victory (however anyone wants to define that) and will be "forced" to recognise that with a new indyref.

The reality is that's bollocks, Westminster have shown over the last decade that actually it's quite easy to just say "nah not now mate" without any further debate, most people just shrug, and the SNP have never even remotely looked like coming up with any answer that either counters that or seeks to move the debate on. So we just get stuck in this doom loop.

Where's that got them? Well, a fairly good decoupling of the Yes and SNP voting intentions, one which is a lot higher than the other now.

eek · July 28

So from April 2028 if you earn over £20,000 a year from self employment you will need to report your income to HMRC every 3 months.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/tax-change-vulnerable-people-work-savings-050034681.html

Hmm I wonder when they will announce that the VAT threshold is reduced to £20,000....

malcolmg · July 28

Battlebus said:
Indyref2 and independence is nonsense and won't happen in the near future. England hasn't been bled dry yet.

Fcukwit

noneoftheabove · July 28

Malmesbury said:

noneoftheabove said:

Malmesbury said:

PoodleInASlipstream said:

Malmesbury said:

That isn’t the problem.

It heaps a vast amount of *pre-emptive* requirements on any kind of commenting platform.

Options

1) close all comments
2) allow comments to be posted only after vetting by a moderator
3) Have very, very deep pockets. And flesh eating lawyers. And time for lawsuits.

1) is easiest
2) kills most comment platforms
3) leaves the comments on the Daily Mail as the only ones in the UK. Nice

Yes, that's why the OSA is a death blow for small forums. It makes the operators liable for any breaches of the act, with significant penalties. The safest course is to stop accepting any user content at all.

One effect is yet more concentration of power in the hands of large entities that can afford ID checking systems, risk assessments and compliance audits. Reddit was basically started by a couple of guys in a bedroom. The OSA means that will never happen in the UK. No site that is based on user content will be able to get off the ground without significant funding.
The Labour Party has a deep rooted dislike of small business - but are quite friendly to big corporates.
And yet has reduced employer NI for small business whilst increasing it for big corporates, shifting the balance in talent recruitment a tad.
The tons of pointless check box regulation (that doesn’t actually regulate) is much easier to absorb if you are a big firm.

The metric tons of paperwork that proved the Grenfell was 115% safe and compliant wouldn’t just write themselves, you know.

I suppose it depends on size and industry rather than just small vs big.

Pointless checkboxing is imo less of an issue for micro businesses than most corporates. Probably the worst hit are those that are just about big enough to need (or think they need) independent HR and Health & Safety functions.

Foxy · July 28

kinabalu said:

Foxy said:

kinabalu said:

Casino_Royale said:

wooliedyed said:
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1949870531911569826?s=19

Interestingly the anti strike sentiment creeping into nurses - much narrower support than previous times.
Conservatives more agin than Reformers although Reform go for more strongly opposed hardliners.
I think Junior Doctors have disappeared up their own arseholes.

Lots of people would love their pay restored in real terms to where it would have been on a pre-2008 trajectory, but a 50%+ bump over just two years just isn't reasonable.
I don't really support the doc strike but I think the ask is for pay to be returned in real terms to 08 levels not to where it would be now on a pre-08 trajectory?
Yes, and it is worth noting that pay in other similar skilled areas is now above 2008 levels.

That said, my unions is not balloting as the indicative survey showed no enthusiasm for another Consultant strike. I don't think very many have struck this time, activity around my department is pretty much as usual.

It does look as if the Residents and Streeting were close to agreement, with major progress on non-pay issues*, but the BMA leadership insisted on a strike as the ballot was about pay.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/27/wes-streeting-thought-he-had-struck-deal-to-halt-strike-by-doctors?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

*it's these that cause most disaffection in my straw poll of ours.
Well I keep hearing pay in the UK has been stagnant in real terms since 08. Put another way this means people's pay in general *is* at 08 levels.

Yes, I think average pay is only a few percent above 2008. Medical pay is still down over 20% in real terms over the same period.

Its no wonder they spat the dummy in 2023 when given a couple of percent in a time of double figured inflation. Who wouldn't be unhappy?

Casino_Royale · July 28

Strictly speaking, I think this now means the two-power standard is partly restored in Europe.

The Royal Navy has more carriers than its nearest two rivals combined:

https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/russia-set-to-scrap-its-last-remaining-aircraft-carrier-vf0q67c3h

This feels like a courageous decision by John Swinney – politicalbetting.com

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