Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Passive aggressive Leon is one of your less appealing incarnations.
Nonetheless it would be interesting to know this. Whether opinions owned by 50%+ of the uk people are “not acceptable” on PB. Given what happened to @williamglenn
I know this is sacrilege, but I'd actually like India to win, or at least draw, this test. It's been such a marvellous series that it would be great to have a decider at the Oval, rather than the dead game it will be if England win this one.
India have had more good days than England in the series before this game. They probably should be 2-1 up with an England win making it 2-2 for a decider, but they've lost the key moments.
I know this is sacrilege, but I'd actually like India to win, or at least draw, this test. It's been such a marvellous series that it would be great to have a decider at the Oval, rather than the dead game it will be if England win this one.
India have had more good days than England in the series before this game. They probably should be 2-1 up with an England win making it 2-2 for a decider, but they've lost the key moments.
Morning all, The last of the overnight by election results is a Con hold in Swanage, Dorset. Rutland counts from 9.30 Swanage (Dorset) Council By-Election Result:
A decent challenge by the LDs there, as I suggested yesterday, but not close enough.
Yep a good effort from them from a low base. Less progress for Reform last night than recently (they might pick up in Rutland though, but then so might the LDs or Con), they arent looking quite as unstoppable. Genuine 5 party bunfighting now at local level
Reform have gained ten, this month, but missed five or six they’d have likely taken, straight after the local elections.
Yep, they are still doing wery well (second everywhere last night except one first!) But just coming off the unstoppable momentum to barreling along causing chaos Tories have stemmed the bleeding a bit but Bromley will hurt as Kemi was there yesterday. Labour have also stemmed things a bit specifically in southern Wales LDs making steady progress in some areas and very good at holding what they have
Yeah Kemi was canvassing a stone throw away from Denis Thatcher's old home
"ITV's The Bill actor Jeff Stewart has helped police officers arrest a shoplifter, attempting to escape on a bicycle.
He played PC Reg Hollis for 24 years in the police drama, and jumped into action by sitting on the suspect’s legs when he fell from the bike, while officers handcuffed him."
I don't think Islam itself is incompatible, but i think some adherents of it do think that, and so via opposite routes end up arriving at very similar ends to non-muslims who think the same thing.
Is it land speculators selling off their "farms" in order to dodge the start of IHT, and genuine farmers buying it up?
Presumably the total of agricultural land in production isn't changing.
Big Agriculture, basically. Also, solar farming.
Both are usually structured as Ltd, so there won't be an inheritance tax, going forward.
Here in Arden ponies, llamas and alpacas seem to be invading every tiny pocket of turf. Not sure if any of them count as 'farms'. Petting farms, perhaps.
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Does it show Islamophobia to be a bigger problem than antisemitism? Do you want to start a campaign to eradicate it?
(I'm filling in for William by posing everything as a question)
I know this is sacrilege, but I'd actually like India to win, or at least draw, this test. It's been such a marvellous series that it would be great to have a decider at the Oval, rather than the dead game it will be if England win this one.
India have had more good days than England in the series before this game. They probably should be 2-1 up with an England win making it 2-2 for a decider, but they've lost the key moments.
The difference is Stokes
I can't think of another sports captain who has so clearly imposed his style on a team due to pure leadership.
Say what you will about his batting not having been as great as we'd like, or quibble his tactics at times, his impact as leader is undeniable.
For many people of course the answer is that some is and some isn't. For those who want a peaceful future only one set of options lies open. there are lots of versions of Christianity incompatible with our values - the sort that went on crusades and destroyed Beziers and ran the 30 years war ending in 1648. But we managed to find a better way. Ditto with Judaism (one of Cromwell's better moments). So we must manage this one too. There are over 3 million, mostly rather decent people and Abrahamic monotheists with a high regard for Jesus and Mary. So it isn't beyond the wit of humanity to find a way to mutual comprehension.
I prefer to start thinking about this from the perspective of two pretty little girls, about 8 at the time, bridesmaids at my daughter's very Christian wedding not so long ago; one a Muslim, the other a Christian. What will be best for the future of these two charming friends?
I know this is sacrilege, but I'd actually like India to win, or at least draw, this test. It's been such a marvellous series that it would be great to have a decider at the Oval, rather than the dead game it will be if England win this one.
India have had more good days than England in the series before this game. They probably should be 2-1 up with an England win making it 2-2 for a decider, but they've lost the key moments.
The difference is Stokes
I can't think of another sports captain who has so clearly imposed his style on a team due to pure leadership.
Say what you will about his batting not having been as great as we'd like, or quibble his tactics at times, his impact as leader is undeniable.
I know this is sacrilege, but I'd actually like India to win, or at least draw, this test. It's been such a marvellous series that it would be great to have a decider at the Oval, rather than the dead game it will be if England win this one.
India have had more good days than England in the series before this game. They probably should be 2-1 up with an England win making it 2-2 for a decider, but they've lost the key moments.
The difference is Stokes
I can't think of another sports captain who has so clearly imposed his style on a team due to pure leadership.
Say what you will about his batting not having been as great as we'd like, or quibble his tactics at times, his impact as leader is undeniable.
Everytime they even look like they might not win the backseat drivers on here start sniping about his tactics.
Minimum 20 test matches as captain highest win %s
1 S Waugh 2 D Bradman 3 R Ponting 4 P Cummins 5 B Stokes
Perhaps he knows what he is doing a tad more than the pb commentariat.
Reindeer passing, from yesterday lunchtime. I was too busy restraining the dog with my other arm, to insert him for scale. But you all know how big reindeer are, having seen them at Xmas time.
One of the sad things about Lapland is that, unlike rural Norway, there aren’t any characterful old wooden villages, the Germans having burned everything down, and driven the population away, at the beginning of the Lapland War. Apparently in postwar years it wasn’t uncommon for locals to shake a box of matches at passing German tourists, by way of reminder.
My reindeer was on a Christmas Cake.
So I had the Christmas Tree (also on the cake) for scale.
No dogs.
Need to be careful using cake decorations for scale. Our reindeer was bigger than the two-storied house.
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
"ITV's The Bill actor Jeff Stewart has helped police officers arrest a shoplifter, attempting to escape on a bicycle.
He played PC Reg Hollis for 24 years in the police drama, and jumped into action by sitting on the suspect’s legs when he fell from the bike, while officers handcuffed him."
Ha that’s funny. Of course the show had a load of police consultants, so the actors understood things like how police take someone down and restrain them. Well done Mr Stewart.
I think Hunt would make a fine Leader of the Opposition in normal times - but these are not normal times. The Tories are on the verge of dropping to fourth.
I really don't like Jenrick, and he should be ruled out due to the stench of corruption emanating from his dealings in government, but it feels like he's the pugilistic political street fighter that the Tories need right now. That's in part what they thought they were getting with Badenoch - someone spiky and energetic who would take the fight to the other parties - but she's been a bit like a rabbit frozen in the headlights.
Once the Tories have survived the challenge from Reform and the Lib Dems, and retained their status as the official opposition, then they can move on to a more broadly reassuring figure like Hunt (supposing an individual with real leadership ability hasn't emerged in the interim).
I know this is sacrilege, but I'd actually like India to win, or at least draw, this test. It's been such a marvellous series that it would be great to have a decider at the Oval, rather than the dead game it will be if England win this one.
India have had more good days than England in the series before this game. They probably should be 2-1 up with an England win making it 2-2 for a decider, but they've lost the key moments.
The difference is Stokes
I can't think of another sports captain who has so clearly imposed his style on a team due to pure leadership.
Say what you will about his batting not having been as great as we'd like, or quibble his tactics at times, his impact as leader is undeniable.
Everytime they even look like they might not win the backseat drivers on here start sniping about his tactics.
Minimum 20 test matches as captain highest win %s
1 S Waugh 2 D Bradman 3 R Ponting 4 P Cummins 5 B Stokes
Perhaps he knows what he is doing a tad more than the pb commentariat.
I know this is sacrilege, but I'd actually like India to win, or at least draw, this test. It's been such a marvellous series that it would be great to have a decider at the Oval, rather than the dead game it will be if England win this one.
India have had more good days than England in the series before this game. They probably should be 2-1 up with an England win making it 2-2 for a decider, but they've lost the key moments.
The difference is Stokes
I can't think of another sports captain who has so clearly imposed his style on a team due to pure leadership.
Say what you will about his batting not having been as great as we'd like, or quibble his tactics at times, his impact as leader is undeniable.
He wouldn't consider becoming Prime Minister, would he?
Pope and Root taking things a little more slowly this morning, after the full-on Bazball of last night, but the damage is likely done already by Crawley and Duckett.
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Has William been banned? Sad if so.
William went full-on National Front - a ban isn’t that surprising
I know this is sacrilege, but I'd actually like India to win, or at least draw, this test. It's been such a marvellous series that it would be great to have a decider at the Oval, rather than the dead game it will be if England win this one.
India have had more good days than England in the series before this game. They probably should be 2-1 up with an England win making it 2-2 for a decider, but they've lost the key moments.
The difference is Stokes
I can't think of another sports captain who has so clearly imposed his style on a team due to pure leadership.
Say what you will about his batting not having been as great as we'd like, or quibble his tactics at times, his impact as leader is undeniable.
He’s also a brilliant captain “as captain”. And, more than any other sport, cricket rewards great captaincy. Because you have to make so many complex, crucial decisions and you have to lead by example in your playing
I agree with you that hour for hour and player for player India are probably the better team (tho it is close)
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Has William been banned? Sad if so.
Has the Russian embassy put in a complaint yet?
Maybe the ban explains Trump's emergency visit to the UK.
Pope and Root taking things a little more slowly this morning, after the full-on Bazball of last night, but the damage is likely done already by Crawley and Duckett.
Yes, Bumrah and Siraj have both bowled much better this morning with tighter lines and fewer freebies. Seeing that out and then taking advantage of the next crop of bowlers makes a lot of sense, especially when time is not really an issue. In an ideal world England want to bat once and that means that they need to bat long.
Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.
"The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."
Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?
Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.
The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
My sister is a senior police officer.
I would be interested in a police (or police adjacent) view on Lee Anderson's tweet around a live rape enquiry in my town where charges were laid, and he listened to police advice, and ignored it, before tweeting. The tweet is now up to nearly 3 million views.
(I see difficulties around jury selection at the very least, given Anderson's local profile.)
I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.
I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.
The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.
I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.
I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.
I love the way shits like him make themselves out to be the victims. "They're trying to shut me up!!! It's all about ME !!!!"
Also, does he ever comment about white working class rapists?
As if. The promoted sentiment is "they're coming to rape our women". It hits two buttons at once - xenophobia ("they") and patriarchal chauvinism ("our").
As there is someone charged and remanded for this offence (and also the one in Epping) the police are clearly doing the job, what is the purpose of this tweet apart from trying to incite a pogrom?
Its an extremely ill judged tweet. Sub judice actually matters if you believe in a free, democratic, non authoritarian society. Rabble rousing is a piece of piss of course, any prick can do it
This is the sort of thing that person with multiple identities was put into prison for, isn't it? It's contempt of court. The judicial system has to protect itself and so I expect to see Anderson brought before a court to explain himself.
Pope and Root taking things a little more slowly this morning, after the full-on Bazball of last night, but the damage is likely done already by Crawley and Duckett.
Yes, Bumrah and Siraj have both bowled much better this morning with tighter lines and fewer freebies. Seeing that out and then taking advantage of the next crop of bowlers makes a lot of sense, especially when time is not really an issue. In an ideal world England want to bat once and that means that they need to bat long.
There is a hint of rain tomorrow and more than a hint on Sunday. So the test time might be limited
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Has William been banned? Sad if so.
William went full-on National Front - a ban isn’t that surprising
From what I saw, he didn’t do that
However I was out boozing at t’Groucho so maybe I missed this lurch into Nick Griffin-land
Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.
"The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."
Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?
Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.
The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
My sister is a senior police officer.
I would be interested in a police (or police adjacent) view on Lee Anderson's tweet around a live rape enquiry in my town where charges were laid, and he listened to police advice, and ignored it, before tweeting. The tweet is now up to nearly 3 million views.
(I see difficulties around jury selection at the very least, given Anderson's local profile.)
I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.
I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.
The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.
I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.
I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.
I love the way shits like him make themselves out to be the victims. "They're trying to shut me up!!! It's all about ME !!!!"
Also, does he ever comment about white working class rapists?
As if. The promoted sentiment is "they're coming to rape our women". It hits two buttons at once - xenophobia ("they") and patriarchal chauvinism ("our").
As there is someone charged and remanded for this offence (and also the one in Epping) the police are clearly doing the job, what is the purpose of this tweet apart from trying to incite a pogrom?
Its an extremely ill judged tweet. Sub judice actually matters if you believe in a free, democratic, non authoritarian society. Rabble rousing is a piece of piss of course, any prick can do it
This is the sort of thing that person with multiple identities was put into prison for, isn't it? It's contempt of court. The judicial system has to protect itself and so I expect to see Anderson brought before a court to explain himself.
He's always struck me as very performative. Not that he's not sincere, but he plays it up as dramatically as possible. So he may like that.
Pope and Root taking things a little more slowly this morning, after the full-on Bazball of last night, but the damage is likely done already by Crawley and Duckett.
Yes, Bumrah and Siraj have both bowled much better this morning with tighter lines and fewer freebies. Seeing that out and then taking advantage of the next crop of bowlers makes a lot of sense, especially when time is not really an issue. In an ideal world England want to bat once and that means that they need to bat long.
There is a hint of rain tomorrow and more than a hint on Sunday. So the test time might be limited
All the more reason to only bat once. England want this to be a 3 innings game. I would agree with your estimate of 500 being needed.
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Passive aggressive Leon is one of your less appealing incarnations.
Nonetheless it would be interesting to know this. Whether opinions owned by 50%+ of the uk people are “not acceptable” on PB. Given what happened to @williamglenn
Some forms of political Islam are incompatible with any form of liberal and humane society. That does not mean that all are. There are Muslim-majority nations where non-Muslims can live reasonably happily.
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Has William been banned? Sad if so.
William went full-on National Front - a ban isn’t that surprising
I missed this but it doesn't surprise. People seemed to think some of his comments were trolling, but it didn't seem like it.
Is it land speculators selling off their "farms" in order to dodge the start of IHT, and genuine farmers buying it up?
Presumably the total of agricultural land in production isn't changing.
Big Agriculture, basically. Also, solar farming.
Both are usually structured as Ltd, so there won't be an inheritance tax, going forward.
Always wondered about this IHT point ? Natural persons ultimately hold shares in these companies and those shares are likely to be in their estate, and the same (if qualifying for BPR) or worse (if not) IHT treatment will apply to such shares, right ?
I know this is sacrilege, but I'd actually like India to win, or at least draw, this test. It's been such a marvellous series that it would be great to have a decider at the Oval, rather than the dead game it will be if England win this one.
India have had more good days than England in the series before this game. They probably should be 2-1 up with an England win making it 2-2 for a decider, but they've lost the key moments.
The difference is Stokes
I can't think of another sports captain who has so clearly imposed his style on a team due to pure leadership.
Say what you will about his batting not having been as great as we'd like, or quibble his tactics at times, his impact as leader is undeniable.
Everytime they even look like they might not win the backseat drivers on here start sniping about his tactics.
Minimum 20 test matches as captain highest win %s
1 S Waugh 2 D Bradman 3 R Ponting 4 P Cummins 5 B Stokes
Perhaps he knows what he is doing a tad more than the pb commentariat.
England have off days but are capable of beating anyone, online moaners are ridiculous about it. Us 90s fans know it could be so much worse.
Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.
"The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."
Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?
Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.
The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
What a load of impartial forelock tugging bullshit.
But I guess your perspective of plod depends on where you are in society and where you are geographically
I'm sure I've told the story before, of how a police officer told me about his philosophy of society while giving me a lift after I'd been knocked off my bicycle. That was that there are two types of people - decent, normal, fine, upstanding members of society, and complete shits. At the time, they weren't sure which category the guy who had knocked me off my bicycle was. Perhaps it had been an oversight on his part to leave the scene of the collision before being breathalysed? Or maybe he was a shit who had left me a false phone number, which was why they couldn't get in touch with him?
They obviously ended up categorising him as a fine upstanding member of society - "a mistake anyone could make, I'm sure" - since they didn't charge him with anything for knocking me off my bicycle, despite it being prima facie driving without due care or attention to collide with another road user when overtaking them. Woe betide you should you be categorised by the police as a shit, though.
Is it land speculators selling off their "farms" in order to dodge the start of IHT, and genuine farmers buying it up?
Presumably the total of agricultural land in production isn't changing.
Big Agriculture, basically. Also, solar farming.
Both are usually structured as Ltd, so there won't be an inheritance tax, going forward.
Always wondered about this IHT point ? Natural persons ultimately hold shares in these companies and those shares are likely to be in their estate, and the same (if qualifying for BPR) or worse (if not) IHT treatment will apply to such shares, right ?
Some will, but many shareholders are themselves corporations, some of them based offshore.
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Centrist dad? I'm a socialist grandad, if you don't mind.
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Passive aggressive Leon is one of your less appealing incarnations.
Nonetheless it would be interesting to know this. Whether opinions owned by 50%+ of the uk people are “not acceptable” on PB. Given what happened to @williamglenn
Some forms of political Islam are incompatible with any form of liberal and humane society. That does not mean that all are. There are Muslim-majority nations where non-Muslims can live reasonably happily.
It’s no coincidence that the Muslim-majority nations where non-Muslims can live happily - UAE, Morocco, Central Asia - tend to have almost zero tolerance for “very conservative Islam”. Morocco and Central Asia ban burqas, for instance. They licence imams. They are very strict about “Islamist parties”
Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.
"The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."
Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?
Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.
The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
What a load of impartial forelock tugging bullshit.
But I guess your perspective of plod depends on where you are in society and where you are geographically
The police sorry to say often derive their attitudes from their perception of you. You might find them remarkably respectful and friendly, others of us not so much. For example my record in my mid twenties was being stopped, searched and questioned 23 times in a single year. Frankly I don't find the crime of walking down the road from the shop with a 4 pint bottle of milk in my hand a respectful or friendly attitude. I am guessing my crime was probably having waist length hair and a leather jacket because none of the times I was stopped was I doing anything suspicious.
Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.
"The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."
Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?
Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.
The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
What a load of impartial forelock tugging bullshit.
But I guess your perspective of plod depends on where you are in society and where you are geographically
The police sorry to say often derive their attitudes from their perception of you. You might find them remarkably respectful and friendly, others of us not so much. For example my record in my mid twenties was being stopped, searched and questioned 23 times in a single year. Frankly I don't find the crime of walking down the road from the shop with a 4 pint bottle of milk in my hand a respectful or friendly attitude. I am guessing my crime was probably having waist length hair and a leather jacket because none of the times I was stopped was I doing anything suspicious.
Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.
"The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."
Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?
Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.
The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
What a load of impartial forelock tugging bullshit.
But I guess your perspective of plod depends on where you are in society and where you are geographically
The police sorry to say often derive their attitudes from their perception of you. You might find them remarkably respectful and friendly, others of us not so much. For example my record in my mid twenties was being stopped, searched and questioned 23 times in a single year. Frankly I don't find the crime of walking down the road from the shop with a 4 pint bottle of milk in my hand a respectful or friendly attitude. I am guessing my crime was probably having waist length hair and a leather jacket because none of the times I was stopped was I doing anything suspicious.
Yep. They'd categorised you as a shit. And so you were tarred with the brush of all the crap they'd have to deal with from the shits who are undoubtedly out there, that the police have to deal with on our behalf every day.
I think Hunt would make a fine Leader of the Opposition in normal times - but these are not normal times. The Tories are on the verge of dropping to fourth.
I really don't like Jenrick, and he should be ruled out due to the stench of corruption emanating from his dealings in government, but it feels like he's the pugilistic political street fighter that the Tories need right now. That's in part what they thought they were getting with Badenoch - someone spiky and energetic who would take the fight to the other parties - but she's been a bit like a rabbit frozen in the headlights.
Once the Tories have survived the challenge from Reform and the Lib Dems, and retained their status as the official opposition, then they can move on to a more broadly reassuring figure like Hunt (supposing an individual with real leadership ability hasn't emerged in the interim).
What is right now depends, quantum like, on the future. As a competitor in Reform's space, Jenrick is qualified to be the leader who loses such centre voters the Tories still have, and succeeds in splitting the Jenrick/Farage vote so that like Aesop's scorpions they kill each other and, at about 23% each, they come joint second well behind Labour, who, with 27/28% of the vote form the next government with LD/SNP support.
But if Jenrick means a Tory Reform electoral pact, then it is formidable, though unwelcome to me. Such a pact will win fairly easily.
In the unlikely event that the Tories wanted to rediscover role, purpose, principle, policy and a bit of hard truth telling, then Hunt looks like the only candidate for now, though not a stellar one.
Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.
"The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."
Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?
Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.
The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
What a load of impartial forelock tugging bullshit.
But I guess your perspective of plod depends on where you are in society and where you are geographically
The police sorry to say often derive their attitudes from their perception of you. You might find them remarkably respectful and friendly, others of us not so much. For example my record in my mid twenties was being stopped, searched and questioned 23 times in a single year. Frankly I don't find the crime of walking down the road from the shop with a 4 pint bottle of milk in my hand a respectful or friendly attitude. I am guessing my crime was probably having waist length hair and a leather jacket because none of the times I was stopped was I doing anything suspicious.
That's a big bottle though, 4 pints. Were you kind of brandishing it rather than letting it just dangle at your side?
I actually quite like Nadine Dorries. A rare politician with no pretences.
Nevertheless she's wrong about everything.
I'm really not sure about that - is she not still in a strop because "Baroness Dorries" failed to materialise?
That was hilarious. Not that she would be the worst Peer ever appointed, in fact on paper she qualifies fine, but in how blatant her upset was at being denied a treat.
Nadine's cognitive dissonance must have been biting hard. It was her hero Boris who promised her a seat in the Lords but then failed to make the right arrangements. Though it is not to Rishi's credit that he let it ride.
As Max Hastings remarked, Boris lets down everyone in the end.
"ITV's The Bill actor Jeff Stewart has helped police officers arrest a shoplifter, attempting to escape on a bicycle.
He played PC Reg Hollis for 24 years in the police drama, and jumped into action by sitting on the suspect’s legs when he fell from the bike, while officers handcuffed him."
Ha that’s funny. Of course the show had a load of police consultants, so the actors understood things like how police take someone down and restrain them. Well done Mr Stewart.
And to think discredited Tory Home Secretary Ken Clarke once called for fewer Reg Hollises and more Tony Stamps.
I actually quite like Nadine Dorries. A rare politician with no pretences.
Nevertheless she's wrong about everything.
I'm really not sure about that - is she not still in a strop because "Baroness Dorries" failed to materialise?
That was hilarious. Not that she would be the worst Peer ever appointed, in fact on paper she qualifies fine, but in how blatant her upset was at being denied a treat.
Nadine's cognitive dissonance must have been biting hard. It was her hero Boris who promised her a seat in the Lords but then failed to make the right arrangements. Though it is not to Rishi's credit that he let it ride.
As Max Hastings remarked, Boris lets down everyone in the end.
He didn’t let it ride.
Issue was Dorries wanted a forward dated peerage at the end of the parliament, but that cannot be done, and she then went down the conspiracy theory route rather than wait until the dissolution honours.
I wish I was there when somebody told Nads that David Cameron had just been ennobled to sit in the cabinet as Foreign Secretary.
"Cleo Laine, Britain's most successful jazz singer, dies aged 97
Versatile vocalist straddled jazz, classical, pop and musical theatre with four-octave range, and collaborated for decades with husband, John Dankworth"
I know this is sacrilege, but I'd actually like India to win, or at least draw, this test. It's been such a marvellous series that it would be great to have a decider at the Oval, rather than the dead game it will be if England win this one.
India have had more good days than England in the series before this game. They probably should be 2-1 up with an England win making it 2-2 for a decider, but they've lost the key moments.
The difference is Stokes
I can't think of another sports captain who has so clearly imposed his style on a team due to pure leadership.
Say what you will about his batting not having been as great as we'd like, or quibble his tactics at times, his impact as leader is undeniable.
Everytime they even look like they might not win the backseat drivers on here start sniping about his tactics.
Minimum 20 test matches as captain highest win %s
1 S Waugh 2 D Bradman 3 R Ponting 4 P Cummins 5 B Stokes
Perhaps he knows what he is doing a tad more than the pb commentariat.
I know this is sacrilege, but I'd actually like India to win, or at least draw, this test. It's been such a marvellous series that it would be great to have a decider at the Oval, rather than the dead game it will be if England win this one.
India have had more good days than England in the series before this game. They probably should be 2-1 up with an England win making it 2-2 for a decider, but they've lost the key moments.
The difference is Stokes
I can't think of another sports captain who has so clearly imposed his style on a team due to pure leadership.
Say what you will about his batting not having been as great as we'd like, or quibble his tactics at times, his impact as leader is undeniable.
Everytime they even look like they might not win the backseat drivers on here start sniping about his tactics.
Minimum 20 test matches as captain highest win %s
1 S Waugh 2 D Bradman 3 R Ponting 4 P Cummins 5 B Stokes
Perhaps he knows what he is doing a tad more than the pb commentariat.
Bloody Aussies.
That list does show how they’ve been the dominant force in cricket for…. Ever
Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.
"The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."
Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?
Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.
The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
What a load of impartial forelock tugging bullshit.
But I guess your perspective of plod depends on where you are in society and where you are geographically
The police sorry to say often derive their attitudes from their perception of you. You might find them remarkably respectful and friendly, others of us not so much. For example my record in my mid twenties was being stopped, searched and questioned 23 times in a single year. Frankly I don't find the crime of walking down the road from the shop with a 4 pint bottle of milk in my hand a respectful or friendly attitude. I am guessing my crime was probably having waist length hair and a leather jacket because none of the times I was stopped was I doing anything suspicious.
IMHO, having waist length hair is more than sufficient reason for the police to be taking an interest in you.
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Centrist dad? I'm a socialist grandad, if you don't mind.
I was the Telegraph with afaics no link to the survey n the article.
And I do now know what perception of Islam was in their heads, or what they had been placed in front of them to gain their reaction.
Pope and Root taking things a little more slowly this morning, after the full-on Bazball of last night, but the damage is likely done already by Crawley and Duckett.
Yes, Bumrah and Siraj have both bowled much better this morning with tighter lines and fewer freebies. Seeing that out and then taking advantage of the next crop of bowlers makes a lot of sense, especially when time is not really an issue. In an ideal world England want to bat once and that means that they need to bat long.
"Jasprit Bumrah's average speed in this innings is 83.9mph and that is his slowest in a Test innings since February 2021."
I think Hunt would make a fine Leader of the Opposition in normal times - but these are not normal times. The Tories are on the verge of dropping to fourth.
I really don't like Jenrick, and he should be ruled out due to the stench of corruption emanating from his dealings in government, but it feels like he's the pugilistic political street fighter that the Tories need right now. That's in part what they thought they were getting with Badenoch - someone spiky and energetic who would take the fight to the other parties - but she's been a bit like a rabbit frozen in the headlights.
Once the Tories have survived the challenge from Reform and the Lib Dems, and retained their status as the official opposition, then they can move on to a more broadly reassuring figure like Hunt (supposing an individual with real leadership ability hasn't emerged in the interim).
What is right now depends, quantum like, on the future. As a competitor in Reform's space, Jenrick is qualified to be the leader who loses such centre voters the Tories still have, and succeeds in splitting the Jenrick/Farage vote so that like Aesop's scorpions they kill each other and, at about 23% each, they come joint second well behind Labour, who, with 27/28% of the vote form the next government with LD/SNP support.
But if Jenrick means a Tory Reform electoral pact, then it is formidable, though unwelcome to me. Such a pact will win fairly easily.
In the unlikely event that the Tories wanted to rediscover role, purpose, principle, policy and a bit of hard truth telling, then Hunt looks like the only candidate for now, though not a stellar one.
Given Britain's use of the FPTP system the first task for a Tory leader is to ensure that they remain the leading party to the right of centre. This means that they absolutely must eclipse Reform and Farage. Where they fall relative to Labour is a secondary concern (though, of course, they should not admit this).
Pope and Root taking things a little more slowly this morning, after the full-on Bazball of last night, but the damage is likely done already by Crawley and Duckett.
Yes, Bumrah and Siraj have both bowled much better this morning with tighter lines and fewer freebies. Seeing that out and then taking advantage of the next crop of bowlers makes a lot of sense, especially when time is not really an issue. In an ideal world England want to bat once and that means that they need to bat long.
"Jasprit Bumrah's average speed in this innings is 83.9mph and that is his slowest in a Test innings since February 2021."
I do wonder sometimes about the accuracy / calibration of how they have setup the speed gun they use. Archer pace was a long way down as well but they were hoping around like it was still coming down with serious pace.
Zarah Sultana MP @zarahsultana · 1h We’ve reached 230,000 sign ups! That’s more than Reform’s membership.
It’s just an online expression of interest, with no payment involved. Nor self verification.
There may even be a few people joining simply to damage Labour who don't support the new party's policies.
And until its a formal party membership, in addition to the many Mr Mouses on their list, there will be plenty of people in other parties, and the media, signing up so they receive their emails and can see what they are up to.
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Passive aggressive Leon is one of your less appealing incarnations.
Nonetheless it would be interesting to know this. Whether opinions owned by 50%+ of the uk people are “not acceptable” on PB. Given what happened to @williamglenn
Some forms of political Islam are incompatible with any form of liberal and humane society. That does not mean that all are. There are Muslim-majority nations where non-Muslims can live reasonably happily.
It’s no coincidence that the Muslim-majority nations where non-Muslims can live happily - UAE, Morocco, Central Asia - tend to have almost zero tolerance for “very conservative Islam”. Morocco and Central Asia ban burqas, for instance. They licence imams. They are very strict about “Islamist parties”
Perhaps we have something to learn from them
Kazakhstan, for example, is an authoritarian state, but an authoritarian secular state. Christians are not persecuted, and indeed, plenty of churches were built, following the end of the USSR. Likewise, there was upsurge in Muslim worship and mosque-building, but not the kind of lunatic Islam that prevails in Afghanistan or adjacent parts of Pakistan.
Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.
"The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."
Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?
Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.
The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
What a load of impartial forelock tugging bullshit.
But I guess your perspective of plod depends on where you are in society and where you are geographically
I'm sure I've told the story before, of how a police officer told me about his philosophy of society while giving me a lift after I'd been knocked off my bicycle. That was that there are two types of people - decent, normal, fine, upstanding members of society, and complete shits. At the time, they weren't sure which category the guy who had knocked me off my bicycle was. Perhaps it had been an oversight on his part to leave the scene of the collision before being breathalysed? Or maybe he was a shit who had left me a false phone number, which was why they couldn't get in touch with him?
They obviously ended up categorising him as a fine upstanding member of society - "a mistake anyone could make, I'm sure" - since they didn't charge him with anything for knocking me off my bicycle, despite it being prima facie driving without due care or attention to collide with another road user when overtaking them. Woe betide you should you be categorised by the police as a shit, though.
Clearly a "fine upstanding member of society" as he was driving a car, no way he'd be driving without due care or attention while drunk, disqualified and uninsured. I got knocked off by a driver that pulled out on me, despite my best attempt at braking and swerving I hit the B pillar as they just kept pulling out, even though I'd shouted a warning. Thankfully I fell into wide hatching not into the path of oncoming traffic. The driver stopped about 300m further on, I think his female passenger made him, was angry that I might have damaged his vauxhall shitbox (sadly I hadn't), told me he was a JP and demanded (with menaces) that I delete the photo I'd taken of him and the car number plate.
Some interesting by election results last evening (and one still to come today).
What conclusions can we draw?
It seems at last the Conservatives are starting to fight back against Reform but when you are holding seats in Lichfield and Swanage you are dealing with the real heartland and while the party made a little progress against the LDs in Dacorum, overall, the picture remains difficult.
Reform are still polling strongly everywhere if perhaps slightly off their post-local election levels. I don't know the extent of their ground game in any of these contests - do they have local activists, how many? Is their campaign primarily on social media for example?
I'd suggest the LDs and the Conservatives in their heartlands can run stronger local campaigns which can blunt the Reform edge somewhat.
For Labour, there's little comfort as you might expect - holding a seat in Wales is better than nothing but next year is going to be difficult.
The LDs have always picked their fights carefully and it's encouraging as a supporter to see seats held which would have been lost a decade or so ago. I suspect Reform will have the same retention problems in the 2020s the LDs had in the 2010s and earlier. Nonetheless, the rise of Reform keeps the LDs largely bottled up in their heartlands.
Good morning
It does seem as if the conservatives had a better night, and I am far from convinced Reform will continue to be flavour of the moment over the coming months and years
With Corbyn - Sultana entering the fray and Labour in the doldrums it may be that Labour have the bigger problems, certainly under Starmer and Reeves
Anyway I remain a conservative voter, but not member, though in the next GE it will be Plaid to defeat our Labour mp
"Anyway I remain a conservative voter, but not member, though in the next GE it will be Plaid to defeat our Labour mp"
Seriously, BigG? Plaid? Ethon-nationalism? And far-left at that?
Jeezo.
Plaid as at present they are the only party who can beat labour here and that matters
They are not considering Independence in their first term but even so, having lived under labour for decades here in Wales, they need to be shown the door
Zarah Sultana MP @zarahsultana · 1h We’ve reached 230,000 sign ups! That’s more than Reform’s membership.
It’s just an online expression of interest, with no payment involved. Nor self verification.
She remains utterly deluded. Her sole function is to deliver a far right Government, which is diametrically opposed to her entire ideology. Although I am sure Corbyn will get off on asking Farage some very testing questions about Palestine at PMQs. Although they do have common ground, they both quite like Putin.
Hunt is the voice of experience but his NI cuts are a large reason why the Government is in the financial mess it's currently in...
Bullshit.
His tax changes were, net a significant tax rise.
The reason we are in a mess is because we spend too much, and have the triple lock that guarantees we always will.
Well, perhaps or you could argue we raise too little in tax but I realise that might not be a view with which you agree.
More seriously, if we are condemned by past actions to spend nearly £100 billion a year on debt interest payments, that inevitably cuts back the room for manoeuvre and add in the certainty of increased defence spending (which I frankly question) and the inevitability of the demands of an ageing population as well as care costs in general and I'm struggling to see what can be cut to make a meaningful difference.
I'm all for Land Value Taxation as you know - land isn't easy to hide unlike other forms of wealth - and I would rather that than a wealth tax though I can see the advantages of a property value tax if we are going to rebadge Council Tax and make it a more relevant measure fir funding local services (the question of who funds social care and how is another can of worms).
The problem is simply put: 80 years of post WWII social democratic welfare state - all good in principle - means there is no political possibility of bigly rowing back on it. This is true of every rich European country, and even, in its own mysterious way, of the USA.
The current immense silence from Reform (who after all may have to manage this farago quite soon) is revealing. The only interesting things they ever say at the moment about real economics is about increasing state involvement (water) and spending more on welfare (WFA, 2 child cap). They are having to learn where the voters are when it comes to government as opposed to protest. Ask the OAPs of Clacton who should pay for their zimmer.
In a sense the next interesting thing to happen in politics is when Reform have their 2029 manifesto looked at by the IFS. Will they dare to enter the election without saying anything precise and costable at all about tax, spend, cuts, debt and deficit?
There's an irony at work here - the 1979 election was meant to mark the end of Butskellism and the post war concensus but all it seems Thatcherism did was re-invigorate the 1945 settlement and give it another 30-40 years.
The question then becomes can we generate enough economic growth to keep the current "big state" going because no one is able to see a viable and coherent alternative given our demographics.
Indeed. From 1945 until now, and this is widely misunderstood even though it is hiding in plain sight, the 100% consensus in politics has been the social democratic state. (High spend, high tax, NHS, welfare safety net, social housing, pensions, free education to 18, NATO, regulated private enterprise).
All politics has been about tinkering with other stuff and the issue of scale, competence and running the social democratic state well or badly.
There is no political language or theory to hand which can discuss the social democratic state WRT whether or not it is the best way of running things, and which bits might go. This is what 100% unites the politics of, say, Michael Foot and Mrs T.
Hence the immense silence because it looks as if something will have to give way. Note that Reform/Farage have nothing at all to say about it.
Yet the problem is how do you conceive an alternative - what would that alternative be and how would it work?
We could, I suppose, go a more European (naughty word I know for this time of the day) model with much higher taxes and if we could guarantee improved public services as a result it would be worth it but the general view (which isn't without merit) is we'd end up paying more for less.
We could do things better - no question - but change often requires a big investment of time and/or money which just isn't there currently. Perhaps the two vowels we cannot mention will be transformative - it's certainly likely human ingenuity will achieve some positive results - but in the long run it comes back to the kind of society and world in which we want to live and the consequences of those choices.
Everyone except Leon is allowed to mention AI.
But AI will be less transformative than governments hope, I suspect.
Consistent with pardon bring offered in exchange for dirt in senior Democrats a look no with a Trump whitewash.
I wouldn't call her a victim, but it is notable that the only person jailed for this sex trafficking and child abuse network that seemingly involved a large number of wealthy and powerful men is a woman.
And Epstein himself, of course.
That she is currently being 'interviewed' by Trump's former defence lawyer, in an unrecorded session, is pretty obvious in its intent.
Any testimony she might offer is, to be generous, utterly worthless.
From Ghislaine Maxwell's sentencing memo: "Taken together with the defendant's perjury in her civil deposition, her lies to Pretrial Services, and her blatant lies about her own weight while in BOP custody, the Court can fairly reject many of the defendant's complaints about her conditions of confinement. Simply put, the defendant lies when it suits her." https://x.com/MeidasTouch/status/1948421427105034639
If they really want to find out what Epstein, Trump and Maxwell got up to, wouldn't it be better to interview the victims rather than the alleged perpetrators?
It shouldn't be a radical idea...
Why would Donald Trump need to do that? His confusion about what he is doing at any given moment didn't happen until long after Epstein's activities were stopped.
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Centrist dad? I'm a socialist grandad, if you don't mind.
I was the Telegraph with afaics no link to the survey n the article.
And I do now know what perception of Islam was in their heads, or what they had been placed in front of them to gain their reaction.
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Centrist dad? I'm a socialist grandad, if you don't mind.
I was the Telegraph with afaics no link to the survey n the article.
And I do now know what perception of Islam was in their heads, or what they had been placed in front of them to gain their reaction.
Some interesting by election results last evening (and one still to come today).
What conclusions can we draw?
It seems at last the Conservatives are starting to fight back against Reform but when you are holding seats in Lichfield and Swanage you are dealing with the real heartland and while the party made a little progress against the LDs in Dacorum, overall, the picture remains difficult.
Reform are still polling strongly everywhere if perhaps slightly off their post-local election levels. I don't know the extent of their ground game in any of these contests - do they have local activists, how many? Is their campaign primarily on social media for example?
I'd suggest the LDs and the Conservatives in their heartlands can run stronger local campaigns which can blunt the Reform edge somewhat.
For Labour, there's little comfort as you might expect - holding a seat in Wales is better than nothing but next year is going to be difficult.
The LDs have always picked their fights carefully and it's encouraging as a supporter to see seats held which would have been lost a decade or so ago. I suspect Reform will have the same retention problems in the 2020s the LDs had in the 2010s and earlier. Nonetheless, the rise of Reform keeps the LDs largely bottled up in their heartlands.
Good morning
It does seem as if the conservatives had a better night, and I am far from convinced Reform will continue to be flavour of the moment over the coming months and years
With Corbyn - Sultana entering the fray and Labour in the doldrums it may be that Labour have the bigger problems, certainly under Starmer and Reeves
Anyway I remain a conservative voter, but not member, though in the next GE it will be Plaid to defeat our Labour mp
"Anyway I remain a conservative voter, but not member, though in the next GE it will be Plaid to defeat our Labour mp"
Seriously, BigG? Plaid? Ethon-nationalism? And far-left at that?
Jeezo.
Plaid as at present they are the only party who can beat labour here and that matters
They are not considering Independence in their first term but even so, having lived under labour for decades here in Wales, they need to be shown the door
Not sure about your logic here.
The next Senedd elections are PR, aren't they? And the most natural partner to get Plaid over the line is Labour.
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Centrist dad? I'm a socialist grandad, if you don't mind.
I was the Telegraph with afaics no link to the survey n the article.
And I do now know what perception of Islam was in their heads, or what they had been placed in front of them to gain their reaction.
Actually pretty devastating findings. Worse as you drill down
Just checking, are YouGov acceptable to you now, because you were a bit angry at them before over the Afghan leak stuff as the findings didn’t correspond with your views?
Hunt is the voice of experience but his NI cuts are a large reason why the Government is in the financial mess it's currently in...
Bullshit.
His tax changes were, net a significant tax rise.
The reason we are in a mess is because we spend too much, and have the triple lock that guarantees we always will.
Well, perhaps or you could argue we raise too little in tax but I realise that might not be a view with which you agree.
More seriously, if we are condemned by past actions to spend nearly £100 billion a year on debt interest payments, that inevitably cuts back the room for manoeuvre and add in the certainty of increased defence spending (which I frankly question) and the inevitability of the demands of an ageing population as well as care costs in general and I'm struggling to see what can be cut to make a meaningful difference.
I'm all for Land Value Taxation as you know - land isn't easy to hide unlike other forms of wealth - and I would rather that than a wealth tax though I can see the advantages of a property value tax if we are going to rebadge Council Tax and make it a more relevant measure fir funding local services (the question of who funds social care and how is another can of worms).
The problem is simply put: 80 years of post WWII social democratic welfare state - all good in principle - means there is no political possibility of bigly rowing back on it. This is true of every rich European country, and even, in its own mysterious way, of the USA.
The current immense silence from Reform (who after all may have to manage this farago quite soon) is revealing. The only interesting things they ever say at the moment about real economics is about increasing state involvement (water) and spending more on welfare (WFA, 2 child cap). They are having to learn where the voters are when it comes to government as opposed to protest. Ask the OAPs of Clacton who should pay for their zimmer.
In a sense the next interesting thing to happen in politics is when Reform have their 2029 manifesto looked at by the IFS. Will they dare to enter the election without saying anything precise and costable at all about tax, spend, cuts, debt and deficit?
There's an irony at work here - the 1979 election was meant to mark the end of Butskellism and the post war concensus but all it seems Thatcherism did was re-invigorate the 1945 settlement and give it another 30-40 years.
The question then becomes can we generate enough economic growth to keep the current "big state" going because no one is able to see a viable and coherent alternative given our demographics.
Indeed. From 1945 until now, and this is widely misunderstood even though it is hiding in plain sight, the 100% consensus in politics has been the social democratic state. (High spend, high tax, NHS, welfare safety net, social housing, pensions, free education to 18, NATO, regulated private enterprise).
All politics has been about tinkering with other stuff and the issue of scale, competence and running the social democratic state well or badly.
There is no political language or theory to hand which can discuss the social democratic state WRT whether or not it is the best way of running things, and which bits might go. This is what 100% unites the politics of, say, Michael Foot and Mrs T.
Hence the immense silence because it looks as if something will have to give way. Note that Reform/Farage have nothing at all to say about it.
Yet the problem is how do you conceive an alternative - what would that alternative be and how would it work?
We could, I suppose, go a more European (naughty word I know for this time of the day) model with much higher taxes and if we could guarantee improved public services as a result it would be worth it but the general view (which isn't without merit) is we'd end up paying more for less.
We could do things better - no question - but change often requires a big investment of time and/or money which just isn't there currently. Perhaps the two vowels we cannot mention will be transformative - it's certainly likely human ingenuity will achieve some positive results - but in the long run it comes back to the kind of society and world in which we want to live and the consequences of those choices.
Everyone except Leon is allowed to mention AI.
But AI will be less transformative than governments hope, I suspect.
America invested a boatload of money in AI and leads the world. China invested a boatload of money in AI and almost leads the world. Britain cuts a planned supercomputer, sells off its world-leading AI pioneers to Google, and invests our meagre AI budget not here but in America.
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Centrist dad? I'm a socialist grandad, if you don't mind.
I was the Telegraph with afaics no link to the survey n the article.
And I do now know what perception of Islam was in their heads, or what they had been placed in front of them to gain their reaction.
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Centrist dad? I'm a socialist grandad, if you don't mind.
I was the Telegraph with afaics no link to the survey n the article.
And I do now know what perception of Islam was in their heads, or what they had been placed in front of them to gain their reaction.
Actually pretty devastating findings. Worse as you drill down
Presumably they would only be pretty devastating findings for you if after drilling down it suggested most people didn't give a toss about Islam. Is that the case?
Clarkson was right. Unless it's for work or a spectacular pay rise, emigration just turns you into somebody who constantly moans.
"The primary purpose of the British constabulary is to suppress the unruly passions of a native population it holds in contempt."
Does Clarkson ever get tired of talking bollocks?
Our police (and I am closely related to, and acquainted with, a few) are actually remarkably respectful of, and friendly to, the population in general as long as you're not a criminal. There are plenty of countries in the world where the police are contemptuous of, or actively hostile to, the masses, but this isn't one of them.
The issue isn't the attitude of the police, it's that they have to follow the rulings of an arrogant, cynical and incompetent political class, of which our Prime Minister and his cronies are the stereotypical example, who really do want to suppress a population, or parts of it anyway, they hold in contempt.
What a load of impartial forelock tugging bullshit.
But I guess your perspective of plod depends on where you are in society and where you are geographically
The police sorry to say often derive their attitudes from their perception of you. You might find them remarkably respectful and friendly, others of us not so much. For example my record in my mid twenties was being stopped, searched and questioned 23 times in a single year. Frankly I don't find the crime of walking down the road from the shop with a 4 pint bottle of milk in my hand a respectful or friendly attitude. I am guessing my crime was probably having waist length hair and a leather jacket because none of the times I was stopped was I doing anything suspicious.
Yep. They'd categorised you as a shit. And so you were tarred with the brush of all the crap they'd have to deal with from the shits who are undoubtedly out there, that the police have to deal with on our behalf every day.
I am quite sure there are plenty of shits out there....I am also positive that a lot of people that police classify as nice people based on there looks are the shits and a lot of the people police consider shits because of how they look are not shits
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Centrist dad? I'm a socialist grandad, if you don't mind.
I was the Telegraph with afaics no link to the survey n the article.
And I do now know what perception of Islam was in their heads, or what they had been placed in front of them to gain their reaction.
Actually pretty devastating findings. Worse as you drill down
Presumably they would only be pretty devastating findings for you if after drilling down it suggested most people didn't give a toss about Islam. Is that the case?
Is this written in some scotch dialect? You’ll have to translate
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Has William been banned? Sad if so.
William went full-on National Front - a ban isn’t that surprising
From what I saw, he didn’t do that
However I was out boozing at t’Groucho so maybe I missed this lurch into Nick Griffin-land
That it even needs saying shows the depths to which the massed ranks of the Republicans have sunk. You would expect at least SOME of them to have broken ranks. Better the wrath of Trump than the wrath of the voters.
This is the bit I don't understand
What do they think happens after Trump?
He's not gonna live for ever (maybe not even 4 years)
Is sucking (up to) Trump really the best way to get the next guy to like you?
Zarah Sultana MP @zarahsultana · 1h We’ve reached 230,000 sign ups! That’s more than Reform’s membership.
It’s just an online expression of interest, with no payment involved. Nor self verification.
She remains utterly deluded. Her sole function is to deliver a far right Government, which is diametrically opposed to her entire ideology. Although I am sure Corbyn will get off on asking Farage some very testing questions about Palestine at PMQs. Although they do have common ground, they both quite like Putin.
If Labour had any sense, they would get PR done and dusted during this term. But of course the clue as to why this will not happen, just as it didn’t under Blair, lies in my opening phrase.
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Centrist dad? I'm a socialist grandad, if you don't mind.
I was the Telegraph with afaics no link to the survey n the article.
And I do now know what perception of Islam was in their heads, or what they had been placed in front of them to gain their reaction.
Perhaps this one. Numbers look the same as the article. Commissioned by Ahmadiyya Muslim Association?
That it even needs saying shows the depths to which the massed ranks of the Republicans have sunk. You would expect at least SOME of them to have broken ranks. Better the wrath of Trump than the wrath of the voters.
This is the bit I don't understand
What do they think happens after Trump?
He's not gonna live for ever (maybe not even 4 years)
Is sucking (up to) Trump really the best way to get the next guy to like you?
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Centrist dad? I'm a socialist grandad, if you don't mind.
I was the Telegraph with afaics no link to the survey n the article.
And I do now know what perception of Islam was in their heads, or what they had been placed in front of them to gain their reaction.
“Unless the authorities revisit their commitment not to increase taxes on ‘working people’, further spending prioritisation will be required to align better the scope of public services with available resources,” the IMF said.
“The triple lock could be replaced with a policy of indexing the state pension to the cost of living.
“Access to public services could also depend more on an individual’s capacity to pay, with charges levied on higher-income users, such as co-payments for health services, while shielding the vulnerable.
“There may also be scope to expand means testing of benefits.”
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Centrist dad? I'm a socialist grandad, if you don't mind.
I was the Telegraph with afaics no link to the survey n the article.
And I do now know what perception of Islam was in their heads, or what they had been placed in front of them to gain their reaction.
Actually pretty devastating findings. Worse as you drill down
Presumably they would only be pretty devastating findings for you if after drilling down it suggested most people didn't give a toss about Islam. Is that the case?
Is this written in some scotch dialect? You’ll have to translate
I mean you'd be devastated if the polling tables didn't indicate that there's a big British Values war on Muslamics and Woke in the offing, but you'd be feverishly excited if there was.
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Centrist dad? I'm a socialist grandad, if you don't mind.
I was the Telegraph with afaics no link to the survey n the article.
And I do now know what perception of Islam was in their heads, or what they had been placed in front of them to gain their reaction.
Actually pretty devastating findings. Worse as you drill down
Just checking, are YouGov acceptable to you now, because you were a bit angry at them before over the Afghan leak stuff as the findings didn’t correspond with your views?
There are a small handful of posters on here who whenever the opportunity arises pick up some obtuse Islam- hostile ball and run with it.
It may be central to the work of Farage and Anderson to whip up all kinds of nonsense. But is it necessary on here?
Remarkable indeed. Going by your commentary, I'd have expected those numbers to be much higher.
It would be interesting to know if a PB commenter is allowed to say “I agree with more than half the British people, and Islam is not compatible with British values”
Or would that get the commenter banned like @williamglenn on the grounds that the PB centrist dads find this opinion “unacceptable”
Centrist dad? I'm a socialist grandad, if you don't mind.
I was the Telegraph with afaics no link to the survey n the article.
And I do now know what perception of Islam was in their heads, or what they had been placed in front of them to gain their reaction.
Actually pretty devastating findings. Worse as you drill down
Presumably they would only be pretty devastating findings for you if after drilling down it suggested most people didn't give a toss about Islam. Is that the case?
Leon woke up (with the usual headache), rushed straight on to Twitter and searched on ‘Islam’, and now for the trillionth day running he’s wanting to play “am I over the line yet?” with our hard-working mods.
And has the cheek to accuse some of this forum’s more thoughtful posters of being “boring”.
Comments
When is @williamglenn returning, by the way?
He played PC Reg Hollis for 24 years in the police drama, and jumped into action by sitting on the suspect’s legs when he fell from the bike, while officers handcuffed him."
https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2025-07-25/itvs-the-bill-actor-helps-police-arrest-shoplifter
Should be enough to win with a declining pitch
(I'm filling in for William by posing everything as a question)
Say what you will about his batting not having been as great as we'd like, or quibble his tactics at times, his impact as leader is undeniable.
I prefer to start thinking about this from the perspective of two pretty little girls, about 8 at the time, bridesmaids at my daughter's very Christian wedding not so long ago; one a Muslim, the other a Christian. What will be best for the future of these two charming friends?
Minimum 20 test matches as captain highest win %s
1 S Waugh
2 D Bradman
3 R Ponting
4 P Cummins
5 B Stokes
Perhaps he knows what he is doing a tad more than the pb commentariat.
I really don't like Jenrick, and he should be ruled out due to the stench of corruption emanating from his dealings in government, but it feels like he's the pugilistic political street fighter that the Tories need right now. That's in part what they thought they were getting with Badenoch - someone spiky and energetic who would take the fight to the other parties - but she's been a bit like a rabbit frozen in the headlights.
Once the Tories have survived the challenge from Reform and the Lib Dems, and retained their status as the official opposition, then they can move on to a more broadly reassuring figure like Hunt (supposing an individual with real leadership ability hasn't emerged in the interim).
I agree with you that hour for hour and player for player India are probably the better team (tho it is close)
Stokes has tilted things our way. So far!
Maybe the ban explains Trump's emergency visit to the UK.
However I was out boozing at t’Groucho so maybe I missed this lurch into Nick Griffin-land
They obviously ended up categorising him as a fine upstanding member of society - "a mistake anyone could make, I'm sure" - since they didn't charge him with anything for knocking me off my bicycle, despite it being prima facie driving without due care or attention to collide with another road user when overtaking them. Woe betide you should you be categorised by the police as a shit, though.
Perhaps we have something to learn from them
But if Jenrick means a Tory Reform electoral pact, then it is formidable, though unwelcome to me. Such a pact will win fairly easily.
In the unlikely event that the Tories wanted to rediscover role, purpose, principle, policy and a bit of hard truth telling, then Hunt looks like the only candidate for now, though not a stellar one.
As Max Hastings remarked, Boris lets down everyone in the end.
@zarahsultana
·
1h
We’ve reached 230,000 sign ups! That’s more than Reform’s membership.
Issue was Dorries wanted a forward dated peerage at the end of the parliament, but that cannot be done, and she then went down the conspiracy theory route rather than wait until the dissolution honours.
I wish I was there when somebody told Nads that David Cameron had just been ennobled to sit in the cabinet as Foreign Secretary.
Versatile vocalist straddled jazz, classical, pop and musical theatre with four-octave range, and collaborated for decades with husband, John Dankworth"
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2025/jul/25/cleo-laine-britain-jazz-singer-john-dankworth-dies
And I do now know what perception of Islam was in their heads, or what they had been placed in front of them to gain their reaction.
I hope they don't get becalmed, though; that tends to lead to wickets.
I got knocked off by a driver that pulled out on me, despite my best attempt at braking and swerving I hit the B pillar as they just kept pulling out, even though I'd shouted a warning. Thankfully I fell into wide hatching not into the path of oncoming traffic. The driver stopped about 300m further on, I think his female passenger made him, was angry that I might have damaged his vauxhall shitbox (sadly I hadn't), told me he was a JP and demanded (with menaces) that I delete the photo I'd taken of him and the car number plate.
They are not considering Independence in their first term but even so, having lived under labour for decades here in Wales, they need to be shown the door
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2025/jul/25/spinal-tap-ii-2-the-end-continues-trailer-released
But AI will be less transformative than governments hope, I suspect.
https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/AhmadiyyaMuslimAssociationUK_Results_250717_W_nuxhgwj.pdf
Actually pretty devastating findings. Worse as you drill down
https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/07/belgian-grand-prix-2025-pre.html
I loathe sprints. Especially when I'm already pushed for time.
The next Senedd elections are PR, aren't they? And the most natural partner to get Plaid over the line is Labour.
It’s in the Groaniad as well
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/25/islamaphobia-socially-acceptable-uk-muslim-values-britain-yougov-poll
They were a group aiming to map out walking etc routes between all communities that started in 2020, and crowd-sourced it.
They are now looking to identify accessible routes within their identified 140,000 km network. And are now looking to build an App.
A quick top slice on my local "Slow Ways" in several directions suggests they have done a decent job so far.
Guardian Piece:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/jul/25/volunteers-map-10000-routes-in-great-britain-to-help-make-walking-accessible?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Their map:
https://beta.slowways.org/MyRoutes
What we don’t know is if the ban is perm or temp.
Given the insane way this series has swung, that might just be value
https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/AhmadiyyaMuslimAssociationUK_Results_250717_W_nuxhgwj.pdf
(PS after several years I finally got it: Have You Upgraded From Democrat)
“The triple lock could be replaced with a policy of indexing the state pension to the cost of living.
“Access to public services could also depend more on an individual’s capacity to pay, with charges levied on higher-income users, such as co-payments for health services, while shielding the vulnerable.
“There may also be scope to expand means testing of benefits.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/07/25/raise-taxes-working-people-charge-for-nhs-imf/
It may be central to the work of Farage and Anderson to whip up all kinds of nonsense. But is it necessary on here?
And has the cheek to accuse some of this forum’s more thoughtful posters of being “boring”.