The evidence that Dr Upton gave during his evidence was that he was upset when the nurse, seeing that he was changing, left the changing room so that he could change in private. He thought she was harassing him because she would not remain present while he undressed or undress herself (and clean herself up - she was having a heavy period and had bled through her clothes) while he was present. I have had that experience - of bleeding heavily through one's clothes during a period - and the reaction of any woman noticing it is to point it out discreetly, offer provide a jacket to cover you and accompany you to the loo and/or offer help (towels, sponges etc.,). You offer help. You do not impose yourself or do anything at all against the woman's wishes.
That does suggest that he wanted her to be present. Why? If his concern was simply to change as the woman he claims to be why did he need another woman to watch him? Or be present? And why did he want to be present while the nurse changed and washed?
No woman is obliged to undress in front of a man - or indeed, anyone at all, if they don't want to. Nor is any woman obliged to be present while someone else undresses. And certainly not in a work context. And yet that seems to be the underlying assumption of some - that when a man demands a woman must comply.
The claim that the nurse harassed him has been rejected in the disciplinary investigation.
As for the Darlington nurses case, the reason there has not been as much coverage is that the tribunal hearing has not started yet. The nurse in question - "Rose" - is a man who is trying to get his girlfriend pregnant, has taken no hormones or any other steps to become a "woman". He is an active heterosexual male who has, it is alleged, gone into the female nurses' changing area in his underpants and asked them when they were getting undressed. Any man doing that is a creep. At best.
There is separately a criminal case involving the father of the Darlington nurse for various alleged sex offences.
There is nothing lascivious about pointing out these facts - which come from the evidence of the doctor himself. Any woman knows exactly how awful it is to be put in the position that nurse was in at such a time - to be deprived of privacy and dignity. It is a great pity that more men - especially those who claim to be women - are so lacking in sympathy and understanding of what women need and want at such a time. It is even odder that the female A&E consultants were also so lacking in sympathy. But then it turns out that they did not have to share a changing room with Dr Upton. It was only the nurses. Class is never far away in Britain.
Naive civilian question- do we really not have individual changing cubicles for doctors and nurses? If not, why not?
Not normally, ours have both a loo and a shower, with lockable doors but otherwise communal changing area with benches and lockers. Both males and female locker rooms are the same layout. The other changing rooms in the Trust are similar.
Incidentally I have not encountered different changing rooms for different grades of staff in any of the hospitals that I have worked in. I change in the same room as the HCA's. One hospital that I used to go to had a single unisex changing room, but not some "woke" innovation, it had simply always been like that since built in 1920. We had a screen between male and female sides.
Employers are legally bound to comply with the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992. This obligation is not dependant on the FWS case. It has been well established law for some decades and derives in part from EU requirements and was not one of the laws which was repealed following Brexit.
It is curious that none of the Fife managers appear - on their own evidence - to be aware of these long-standing requirements.
I am also amused by the A&E consultant, Dr Searle, claiming that she did not realise that emails she sent at work about a disciplinary investigation were not personal. (There is an issue around why some damaging emails coped to six doctors were not disclosed until very late in the process.)
For the hard of understanding, an email sent at work to work colleagues on a work computer about a work matter is not, in any sense, a "personal email".
A consultant with line manager responsibilities - as this consultant had - is either lying, being very disingenuous (if you want to be kind) or is incredibly dense if they believe otherwise.
India now effectively 244-5 in this innings and 0-1 in their second innings. Weird that he can be subbed for his keeping but not his batting. If it was a concussion he could be, but not for a broken foot. Benefits England but an odd set of rules.
Could he have been subbed if he hadn't yet gone in?
I don't like this sub thing. It contradicts the very first law of cricket.
LAW 1 THE PLAYERS 1.1 Number of players A match is played between two sides, each of eleven players, one of whom shall be captain.
That rule is invalidated for concussion (rightly) and fielding (Seemingly at will) though.
Yes, the fielding thing is as old as the hills, but I wonder if there was a time when it wasn't permissible.
Has always been allowed if agreed by both teams/umpires but officially allowed from late 19th century i think
India now effectively 244-5 in this innings and 0-1 in their second innings. Weird that he can be subbed for his keeping but not his batting. If it was a concussion he could be, but not for a broken foot. Benefits England but an odd set of rules.
Could he have been subbed if he hadn't yet gone in?
He presumably wouldn't be named in the starting XI if he was injured pre-match. If he injured himself (How lol?) after 11 then I guess no.
Shades of Glenn McGrath stepping on a ball on the morning of the 2nd test in 2005 and having to miss it. What a terrible thing that was.
India now effectively 244-5 in this innings and 0-1 in their second innings. Weird that he can be subbed for his keeping but not his batting. If it was a concussion he could be, but not for a broken foot. Benefits England but an odd set of rules.
Could he have been subbed if he hadn't yet gone in?
He presumably wouldn't be named in the starting XI if he was injured pre-match. If he injured himself (How lol?) after 11 then I guess no.
Shades of Glenn McGrath stepping on a ball on the morning of the 2nd test in 2005 and having to miss it. What a terrible thing that was.
It injured him so badly hes only been able to say '5-0 Australia i reckon' ever since
Morning all. A bit of cricket nerdery following Pants injury. In 1986, England wicket keeper Bruce French was injured batting vs New Zealand and was replaced behind the stumps by retired 45 year old ex england keeper Bob Taylor who was in the crowd watching. The Hampshire keeper Bob Parks then took over from him for the remainder of the match, never otherwise being called up for England
I watched on telly (might have been highlights, cant recall) and remember Taylor being not too shabby for an OAP
The US constitution is clear that Presidents can only run for two terms and even this Supreme Court has not read into the Constitution a clear contradiction of what it says
If Presidents were allowed to run for a third term though on current polls Obama would be favourite to beat Trump
Trump will do well to survive to the end of this term both for health reasons and because of his outrageously corrupt behaviour. If control of Congress changes in the Midterms life will become extremely uncomfortable for him. Which is the least he deserves, of course.
I suspect the odds for control of Congress changing in the Midterms is currently more than 6/5 odds. - which is why I was writing something saying to say the impeachment odds don't look value
I think that the Democrats will take the House easily. The Senate, as @ydoethur points out, is a much harder nut to crack, especially to the point of having effective control.
They need a net gain of four seats.
If they win Maine and hold Georgia, that's one.
Then the first three I've named are probably their softest targets. Kentucky is not a soft target.
Nebraska might just go to an independent but it seems unlikely.
The Republicans have had a really bad night if they lose the Senate.
America will have had a really bad night if they don't given the age of some of the saner Supreme Court justices.
On the Supreme Court - indeed. The MAGA right already has a lock on the primary legislative chamber on the hill (the SC). Next up is to replace any retirees/deaths with 18 year old ultras.
There is a lesson here for those who want Parliament to be subservient to the law.
If that was so, and the SC here consisted of 12 Reform appointed judges? You couldn’t fire them. Can’t pack the court - the court would declare the extra judges illegitimate.
Half a century of that to look forward to, until they drop off their perches.
“Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest.”
Eh? Of course Parliament should be subservient to the law, until it changes the law in it’s absolute power.
It’s a silly comparison because you have to have a constitutional court if you have a higher law, otherwise it’s meaningless. We do not have higher law so don’t need any sort of special constitutional court - the law is what Parliament says it is and always has been since what, the Glorious Revolution?
There are those, like the Fox Killer, who want the SC to declare that various rights exist and are beyond Parliament's reach.
Sounds nice?
Wait till whoever follows Reform works out The Answer.
It’s not The Laws you need to control. It’s the interpretation.
ECHR? I’ll just get me some judges who will knit some new rights from the ECHR.
Say, the various rights in it form collective rights Of The People. So in a case involving the Right To Family Life, say, the Right of The People to be {insert blather} supersedes individual rights.
There are some arguments in favour of higher law/a written constitution but it would need a lot of other changes, not just more powers to the Supreme Court.
The laws of reality to not allow the solving of problems by a sequence of higher laws and written constitutions. Wherever your system ends two further factors will always apply which come down to the present state of actual human beings (who mostly are lawyers and politicians). These are the necessity of being able to change the highest law, and the necessity of dealing with conflicts about its interpretation and application. No pre-existing set of rules can do this for you.
The thought of messing fundamentally with the organically developed system of courts, parliament, government and crown in an attempt to rationalise it is sub optimal.
Who Guards The Guardians?
Ultimately, in a democracy, only the people can do this. Which is why I like the Swiss system.
Morning all. A bit of cricket nerdery following Pants injury. In 1986, England wicket keeper Bruce French was injured batting vs New Zealand and was replaced behind the stumps by retired 45 year old ex england keeper Bob Taylor who was in the crowd watching. The Hampshire keeper Bob Parks then took over from him for the remainder of the match, never otherwise being called up for England
I watched on telly (might have been highlights, cant recall) and remember Taylor being not too shabby for an OAP
Morning all. A bit of cricket nerdery following Pants injury. In 1986, England wicket keeper Bruce French was injured batting vs New Zealand and was replaced behind the stumps by retired 45 year old ex england keeper Bob Taylor who was in the crowd watching. The Hampshire keeper Bob Parks then took over from him for the remainder of the match, never otherwise being called up for England
I watched on telly (might have been highlights, cant recall) and remember Taylor being not too shabby for an OAP
Morning all. A bit of cricket nerdery following Pants injury. In 1986, England wicket keeper Bruce French was injured batting vs New Zealand and was replaced behind the stumps by retired 45 year old ex england keeper Bob Taylor who was in the crowd watching. The Hampshire keeper Bob Parks then took over from him for the remainder of the match, never otherwise being called up for England
I watched on telly (might have been highlights, cant recall) and remember Taylor being not too shabby for an OAP
I would have thought that the Dems wouldn't be able to resist impeaching Trump if they take the House in 2026.
Certainly if they didn't then they'll spend their time arguing about whether they should with the resulting internal splits.
I doubt they'd waste their time with that. The senate means any such effort is doomed from the start, and they ought to have learned from the last time round that all it does is allow the GOP to craft persecution myths.
The are more likely - certainly ought, anyway - to conduct Congressional investigations into his multifarious malfeasances.
Nothing wastes time like a congressional investigation.
The Dems should have learned that from their previous congressional investigation into Trump or for that matter the GOP's congressional investigations into Biden.
And its not a myth that the Dems waged lawfare against Trump.
Where they went wrong was in waging it so incompetently - attempting to damage rather than destroy Trump.
I do hope you're not buying into the nonsense theory that they slow-walked the prosecutions so as to engineer a tainted losing opponent in preference to him being convicted and jailed.
Given that's what happened its not nonsense.
Although you could say it was a nonsense plan that the ever smug, self-admiring Dems came up with.
Similar to the Dems using tens of millions of their own money to boost MAGA candidates in GOP primary elections.
It is a bit like "smug" Tories paying their three quid to elect Corbyn as Leader of the Opposition. The smile was wiped off their (and all of our) faces when he almost won in 2017.
Do we have previous examples of MPs deliberately committing Contempt of Court? Have any been prosecuted? To me this looks quite "slap him down or it will become normal practice".
Missed this one. Lee Anderson ups the stakes - commenting publicly on a case which is sub judice at 3pm yesterday, admitting that he took 24 hours to consider before doing it.
Enough Is Enough.
I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.
I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.
The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.
I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.
I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.
This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.
One moment they're attacking French police with weapons and using guns in Northern France, the next minute they're in luxury hotels on our country and then placed in housing amongst us all.
Note to Labour government and the previous government - this is all down to you. Women and young girls are being attacked in their own towns and villages whilst you do nothing.
Our police ferry in Antifa to protest against genuinely concerned residents who are peacefully protesting then have the nerve to tell us all to remain calm.
This country is going to the dogs - You are turning it into a third world s**t hole and we've had enough.
I do not want these illegal migrants in my constituency or in my country.
Putting to one side the case in question, there’s a phrase here that’s worth dwelling on: “This country is going to the dogs”.
This sentiment feels like it’s becoming more widespread and more passionately felt than at any time I can personally remember. And it’s being felt by those at opposite ends of the spectrum and for different (and sometimes opposite) reasons.
It would be astonishing to me if 2029 is not another change election. Rise of Reform is well commented on. But I doubt it ends there. I think we have an anti 2019 election when the duopoly reigned supreme. How well does Baxter stand up in such circumstances?
One counterpoint to that (there are others) is that that is the only political narrative he has got, and they want to weaponise it every which way they can.
RefUK have no positive narratives, just as they have no credible policies. All they have is political marketing.
'Enough is Enough' - or simply ending your spiel with ENOUGH - is a particularly tiresome feature of populist ranting.
Do we have previous examples of MPs deliberately committing Contempt of Court? Have any been prosecuted? To me this looks quite "slap him down or it will become normal practice".
Missed this one. Lee Anderson ups the stakes - commenting publicly on a case which is sub judice at 3pm yesterday, admitting that he took 24 hours to consider before doing it.
Enough Is Enough.
I spoke with Nottinghamshire Police yesterday about this case. I was asked not to go public on this matter as it may affect the trial. Why would it affect the trial? Are our judges and juries incompetent? Or is there another reason I am being asked to remain quiet.
I've spent the last 24 hours mulling over this and cannot keep quiet.
The man charged with this vile offence is an asylum seeker who has been living in Ashfield.
I have been banging on about illegal migration since I was elected. At first I was told by other MPs that I was a racist, a bigot and I should shut up.
I will not shut up and do not care about the consequences.
This government is importing rapists, sexual predators, and other vile criminals into our country.
One moment they're attacking French police with weapons and using guns in Northern France, the next minute they're in luxury hotels on our country and then placed in housing amongst us all.
Note to Labour government and the previous government - this is all down to you. Women and young girls are being attacked in their own towns and villages whilst you do nothing.
Our police ferry in Antifa to protest against genuinely concerned residents who are peacefully protesting then have the nerve to tell us all to remain calm.
This country is going to the dogs - You are turning it into a third world s**t hole and we've had enough.
I do not want these illegal migrants in my constituency or in my country.
Putting to one side the case in question, there’s a phrase here that’s worth dwelling on: “This country is going to the dogs”.
This sentiment feels like it’s becoming more widespread and more passionately felt than at any time I can personally remember. And it’s being felt by those at opposite ends of the spectrum and for different (and sometimes opposite) reasons.
It would be astonishing to me if 2029 is not another change election. Rise of Reform is well commented on. But I doubt it ends there. I think we have an anti 2019 election when the duopoly reigned supreme. How well does Baxter stand up in such circumstances?
One counterpoint to that (there are others) is that that is the only political narrative he has got, and they want to weaponise it every which way they can.
RefUK have no positive narratives, just as they have no credible policies. All they have is political marketing.
'Enough is Enough' - or simply ending your spiel with ENOUGH - is a particularly tiresome feature of populist ranting.
Morning all. A bit of cricket nerdery following Pants injury. In 1986, England wicket keeper Bruce French was injured batting vs New Zealand and was replaced behind the stumps by retired 45 year old ex england keeper Bob Taylor who was in the crowd watching. The Hampshire keeper Bob Parks then took over from him for the remainder of the match, never otherwise being called up for England
I watched on telly (might have been highlights, cant recall) and remember Taylor being not too shabby for an OAP
I was actually there that day! IIRC correctly he was on hospitality duty in one of the boxes and kept as neatly as ever.
Nice! Yeah, they got him into his whites and out he came to keep. Mind you, he was into his 40s before he retired anyway
It was only 2 years and a bit since his last test match (in India).
Morning all. A bit of cricket nerdery following Pants injury. In 1986, England wicket keeper Bruce French was injured batting vs New Zealand and was replaced behind the stumps by retired 45 year old ex england keeper Bob Taylor who was in the crowd watching. The Hampshire keeper Bob Parks then took over from him for the remainder of the match, never otherwise being called up for England
I watched on telly (might have been highlights, cant recall) and remember Taylor being not too shabby for an OAP
I was actually there that day! IIRC correctly he was on hospitality duty in one of the boxes and kept as neatly as ever.
Nice! Yeah, they got him into his whites and out he came to keep. Mind you, he was into his 40s before he retired anyway
It was only 2 years and a bit since his last test match (in India).
Yeah.... when i was a younger Woolie it seemed like he'd been dredged up from the wreck of the Titanic!
Morning all. A bit of cricket nerdery following Pants injury. In 1986, England wicket keeper Bruce French was injured batting vs New Zealand and was replaced behind the stumps by retired 45 year old ex england keeper Bob Taylor who was in the crowd watching. The Hampshire keeper Bob Parks then took over from him for the remainder of the match, never otherwise being called up for England
I watched on telly (might have been highlights, cant recall) and remember Taylor being not too shabby for an OAP
I would have thought that the Dems wouldn't be able to resist impeaching Trump if they take the House in 2026.
Certainly if they didn't then they'll spend their time arguing about whether they should with the resulting internal splits.
I doubt they'd waste their time with that. The senate means any such effort is doomed from the start, and they ought to have learned from the last time round that all it does is allow the GOP to craft persecution myths.
The are more likely - certainly ought, anyway - to conduct Congressional investigations into his multifarious malfeasances.
Nothing wastes time like a congressional investigation.
The Dems should have learned that from their previous congressional investigation into Trump or for that matter the GOP's congressional investigations into Biden.
And its not a myth that the Dems waged lawfare against Trump.
Where they went wrong was in waging it so incompetently - attempting to damage rather than destroy Trump.
I do hope you're not buying into the nonsense theory that they slow-walked the prosecutions so as to engineer a tainted losing opponent in preference to him being convicted and jailed.
Given that's what happened its not nonsense.
Although you could say it was a nonsense plan that the ever smug, self-admiring Dems came up with.
Similar to the Dems using tens of millions of their own money to boost MAGA candidates in GOP primary elections.
It is a bit like "smug" Tories paying their three quid to elect Corbyn as Leader of the Opposition. The smile was wiped off their (and all of our) faces when he almost won in 2017.
But restored again in 2019.
MAGA Republican candidates did worse than more establishment Republican candidates in the 2018 midterms and 2020 Congressional elections
Fascinating Speccie article on “can Reform be stopped”
Choice paragraph
“One answer to what can stop Farage might once have been Farage himself, whose intensity used to waver between elections.
Now allies describe a man for whom a working day of 4.30 a.m. to 11 p.m. is not unusual. ‘All his bodyguards are ex-SAS and parachute regiment and they’re knackered trying to keep up,’ one friend says. ‘He spent three days preparing for that crime press conference so he was across the detail. There is a seriousness there. Does he want to be prime minister? I’m not sure he does. But he feels: if not him, then who? He feels it’s his duty, and perhaps his destiny.’”
Morning all. A bit of cricket nerdery following Pants injury. In 1986, England wicket keeper Bruce French was injured batting vs New Zealand and was replaced behind the stumps by retired 45 year old ex england keeper Bob Taylor who was in the crowd watching. The Hampshire keeper Bob Parks then took over from him for the remainder of the match, never otherwise being called up for England
I watched on telly (might have been highlights, cant recall) and remember Taylor being not too shabby for an OAP
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
The bet is also poorly worded in that Trump can't repeal a constitutional amendment, so what do they mean?
Of course, Trump might think he can repeal the 22nd. So what happens if he issues an executive order, which would be invalid: would that satisfy the bet?
I think Trump might try something, but it would be such in legal wrangles for years, so what happens to the bet?
The bet is also poorly worded in that Trump can't repeal a constitutional amendment, so what do they mean?
Of course, Trump might think he can repeal the 22nd. So what happens if he issues an executive order, which would be invalid: would that satisfy the bet?
I think Trump might try something, but it would be such in legal wrangles for years, so what happens to the bet?
It depends what the Supreme Court allows while the case is being fought.
An attempt to repeal the 22nd with Trump allowed to run for president as the case is argued is very different to an attempt to repeal the 22nd with Trump unable to stand while the case is argued.
In the former case it’s possible that the 22nd becomes irrelevant whatever the 2028 result is
I'm listening to a Green Party leadership election debate between Chowns and Polanski (on the Pod Save the UK podcast).
Were I a member of the Greens, I'd vote for Chowns, but I'm not. As a LibDem, maybe I should want Zack to win? Polanski's vision is for a Corbynite party with a green tinge. He could do well hoovering up the hard left vote against an anaemic Labour Party, but he faces competition from Corbyn, Sultana etc. I also suspect there may be a ceiling to what that approach can get.
A Polanski-led Green Party would send a bunch of the people who voted for Chowns or Ramsay as MPs into the arms of the LibDems
The bet is also poorly worded in that Trump can't repeal a constitutional amendment, so what do they mean?
Of course, Trump might think he can repeal the 22nd. So what happens if he issues an executive order, which would be invalid: would that satisfy the bet?
I think Trump might try something, but it would be such in legal wrangles for years, so what happens to the bet?
It depends what the Supreme Court allows while the case is being fought.
An attempt to repeal the 22nd with Trump allowed to run for president as the case is argued is very different to an attempt to repeal the 22nd with Trump unable to stand while the case is argued.
In the former case it’s possible that the 22nd becomes irrelevant whatever the 2028 result is
Surely if the case is still sub judice the status quo applies?
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
On topic this is an awful bet, it's roughly a very skinny ~ 7-2 for Trump and Obama with a smidgen of relatedness taking the odds down to 16-1 for the double.
Fascinating Speccie article on “can Reform be stopped”
Choice paragraph
“One answer to what can stop Farage might once have been Farage himself, whose intensity used to waver between elections.
Now allies describe a man for whom a working day of 4.30 a.m. to 11 p.m. is not unusual. ‘All his bodyguards are ex-SAS and parachute regiment and they’re knackered trying to keep up,’ one friend says. ‘He spent three days preparing for that crime press conference so he was across the detail. There is a seriousness there. Does he want to be prime minister? I’m not sure he does. But he feels: if not him, then who? He feels it’s his duty, and perhaps his destiny.’”
Though if he is spending three days preparing for a press conference, he is going to have to get a lot faster a lot sooner.
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth, as one man said. And being Prime Minister is all about being repeatedly punched in the mouth from multiple directions at once. Events, dear boy, as another man said.
Britain’s private sector companies cut jobs at the fastest pace since February, a closely watched survey showed, as Rachel Reeves’s tax raid pushed up staffing costs.
Employment in both the manufacturing and service sectors fell for the 10th consecutive month during July, the S&P Global Flash UK PMI showed.
Fascinating Speccie article on “can Reform be stopped”
Choice paragraph
“One answer to what can stop Farage might once have been Farage himself, whose intensity used to waver between elections.
Now allies describe a man for whom a working day of 4.30 a.m. to 11 p.m. is not unusual. ‘All his bodyguards are ex-SAS and parachute regiment and they’re knackered trying to keep up,’ one friend says. ‘He spent three days preparing for that crime press conference so he was across the detail. There is a seriousness there. Does he want to be prime minister? I’m not sure he does. But he feels: if not him, then who? He feels it’s his duty, and perhaps his destiny.’”
Strange. When political aides start describing their leader as some sort of superman it normally means something is up. Nigel's appeal isn't in him being an ultra-driven, obsessive, little-bit-odd, Dominic-Cummings-type insomniac. Why are they putting that about?
I have no idea, but went to look at mine. I had one. The contents of which were just the number '44'. I have no idea what that means, how it got saved as a draft or what I was doing.
On that front @HYUFD I sent you a private message (3rd reminder) a week or two ago now. Have you seen it?
Fascinating Speccie article on “can Reform be stopped”
Choice paragraph
“One answer to what can stop Farage might once have been Farage himself, whose intensity used to waver between elections.
Now allies describe a man for whom a working day of 4.30 a.m. to 11 p.m. is not unusual. ‘All his bodyguards are ex-SAS and parachute regiment and they’re knackered trying to keep up,’ one friend says. ‘He spent three days preparing for that crime press conference so he was across the detail. There is a seriousness there. Does he want to be prime minister? I’m not sure he does. But he feels: if not him, then who? He feels it’s his duty, and perhaps his destiny.’”
Strange. When political aides start describing their leader as some sort of superman it normally means something is up. Nigel's appeal isn't in him being an ultra-driven, obsessive, little-bit-odd, Dominic-Cummings-type insomniac. Why are they putting that about?
My guess is that they’re aware of this “Farage is a lightweight lazy arse who doesn’t really want the job” attack line, and they’re now pushing back. Because, presumably, Farage does now want the job. And more importantly, he can see a real chance of getting it
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
I also normally avoid this topic, for almost exactly the reason you challenged Roger - my views are fairly set, and all I end up doing is ranting, which is entirely pointless.
Your challenge as to what the solution is, is a good one - whilst I would pick holes in Trump's solution I am not sure I can offer a better one, other than tinkering around the edges. And perhaps that's all that is possible at the moment.
Anyway, I wasn't seeking to reopen the discussion, but I appreciate you accepting the apology.
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Where do you send Palestinians?
One of the reasons the region is in the mess it is was that the trauma of the Holocaust understandably led Jews to seek a safe haven and country of their own elsewhere. If Palestinians are moved on to a home elsewhere you repeat the cycle.
I don't think there's any alternative to the hard work of peace-building, one day, one person at a time.
The bet is also poorly worded in that Trump can't repeal a constitutional amendment, so what do they mean?
Of course, Trump might think he can repeal the 22nd. So what happens if he issues an executive order, which would be invalid: would that satisfy the bet?
I think Trump might try something, but it would be such in legal wrangles for years, so what happens to the bet?
It depends what the Supreme Court allows while the case is being fought.
An attempt to repeal the 22nd with Trump allowed to run for president as the case is argued is very different to an attempt to repeal the 22nd with Trump unable to stand while the case is argued.
In the former case it’s possible that the 22nd becomes irrelevant whatever the 2028 result is
Surely if the case is still sub judice the status quo applies?
It depends how confident you are that the rule of law will stand.
Fascinating Speccie article on “can Reform be stopped”
Choice paragraph
“One answer to what can stop Farage might once have been Farage himself, whose intensity used to waver between elections.
Now allies describe a man for whom a working day of 4.30 a.m. to 11 p.m. is not unusual. ‘All his bodyguards are ex-SAS and parachute regiment and they’re knackered trying to keep up,’ one friend says. ‘He spent three days preparing for that crime press conference so he was across the detail. There is a seriousness there. Does he want to be prime minister? I’m not sure he does. But he feels: if not him, then who? He feels it’s his duty, and perhaps his destiny.’”
Strange. When political aides start describing their leader as some sort of superman it normally means something is up. Nigel's appeal isn't in him being an ultra-driven, obsessive, little-bit-odd, Dominic-Cummings-type insomniac. Why are they putting that about?
His image is of being a louche layabout. It definitely makes sense to put it about that he's taking politics a lot more seriously and will work hard for the voters.
Not sure I find the messianic touch at all reassuring though.
India now effectively 244-5 in this innings and 0-1 in their second innings. Weird that he can be subbed for his keeping but not his batting. If it was a concussion he could be, but not for a broken foot. Benefits England but an odd set of rules.
Could he have been subbed if he hadn't yet gone in?
He presumably wouldn't be named in the starting XI if he was injured pre-match. If he injured himself (How lol?) after 11 then I guess no.
Substitutions can be made between the toss and the start of play with the agreement of the opposing captain and the umpires, but it's rare. It happened at Headingley in 2009 I think.
After play has begun, no.
I have just seen James Anderson bowl a bad ball. That may be something I never see again.
Fascinating Speccie article on “can Reform be stopped”
Choice paragraph
“One answer to what can stop Farage might once have been Farage himself, whose intensity used to waver between elections.
Now allies describe a man for whom a working day of 4.30 a.m. to 11 p.m. is not unusual. ‘All his bodyguards are ex-SAS and parachute regiment and they’re knackered trying to keep up,’ one friend says. ‘He spent three days preparing for that crime press conference so he was across the detail. There is a seriousness there. Does he want to be prime minister? I’m not sure he does. But he feels: if not him, then who? He feels it’s his duty, and perhaps his destiny.’”
His destiny. He is truly the Boris Johnson de nos jours.
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Where do you send Palestinians?
One of the reasons the region is in the mess it is was that the trauma of the Holocaust understandably led Jews to seek a safe haven and country of their own elsewhere. If Palestinians are moved on to a home elsewhere you repeat the cycle.
I don't think there's any alternative to the hard work of peace-building, one day, one person at a time.
It would have to be away from the Middle East. Either North Africa - which might welcome the injection of investment - or even further. Indonesia?
I know this sounds like dreamland but then it needs a bit of dreaming to fix this
The alternative is more of the same for year after year, decade after decade. Even if the “west” prevails on Israel to let up right now, the Gazans will commit some terrible Jew-killing soon enough, then Israel will go at it again, and this satanic cycle will continue
Who benefits from that? Literally no one. Manufacturers of white phosphorus maybe
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
I have no idea, but went to look at mine. I had one. The contents of which were just the number '44'. I have no idea what that means, how it got saved as a draft or what I was doing.
On that front @HYUFD I sent you a private message (3rd reminder) a week or two ago now. Have you seen it?
At a guess, these old drafts are where comments were started, automatically saved by Vanilla, then abandoned by the author, and then orphaned when a new thread came along. You can delete them.
My take is that Farage is becoming gradually more blatant in appealing to, and facilitating, the harder right part of his support base, because more are coming out in opposition to him being 'too soft' and wanting a leader more like Lowe or Habib.
He's been doing it in various respects for some time - for example in softening his formerly declared hard line on candidate vetting.
Fascinating Speccie article on “can Reform be stopped”
Choice paragraph
“One answer to what can stop Farage might once have been Farage himself, whose intensity used to waver between elections.
Now allies describe a man for whom a working day of 4.30 a.m. to 11 p.m. is not unusual. ‘All his bodyguards are ex-SAS and parachute regiment and they’re knackered trying to keep up,’ one friend says. ‘He spent three days preparing for that crime press conference so he was across the detail. There is a seriousness there. Does he want to be prime minister? I’m not sure he does. But he feels: if not him, then who? He feels it’s his duty, and perhaps his destiny.’”
Strange. When political aides start describing their leader as some sort of superman it normally means something is up. Nigel's appeal isn't in him being an ultra-driven, obsessive, little-bit-odd, Dominic-Cummings-type insomniac. Why are they putting that about?
Twas my thought as well, while I have stopped for my lunch and watching a herd of reindeer trot by.
This is clearly spin, but why? Maybe just because polls are finding that Farage's reputation as spending more time in the saloon bar than the office or the house is starting to become a drag?
The final ninety seconds of that clip are absolutely incredible. The Labour MPs are smirking, dumbfounded at Starmer’s answers, while he ends up with his jaw slack, looking like he’s just been told his kids aren’t his
Fascinating Speccie article on “can Reform be stopped”
Choice paragraph
“One answer to what can stop Farage might once have been Farage himself, whose intensity used to waver between elections.
Now allies describe a man for whom a working day of 4.30 a.m. to 11 p.m. is not unusual. ‘All his bodyguards are ex-SAS and parachute regiment and they’re knackered trying to keep up,’ one friend says. ‘He spent three days preparing for that crime press conference so he was across the detail. There is a seriousness there. Does he want to be prime minister? I’m not sure he does. But he feels: if not him, then who? He feels it’s his duty, and perhaps his destiny.’”
Strange. When political aides start describing their leader as some sort of superman it normally means something is up. Nigel's appeal isn't in him being an ultra-driven, obsessive, little-bit-odd, Dominic-Cummings-type insomniac. Why are they putting that about?
Twas my thought as well, while I have stopped for my lunch and watching a herd of reindeer trot by.
This is clearly spin, but why? Maybe just because polls are finding that Farage's reputation as spending more time in the saloon bar than the office or the house is starting to become a drag?
Also makes a neat contrast with Kemi B, who rather seems to not be putting in the hours. What matters here is the Ref/Con split, not the RefCon/LLG split, which is still pretty stable.
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Dismal, depressing, and probably correct.
There are many examples of longstanding ethnic tensions being resolved successfully, and others of being resolved maybe not so successfully, but enough to stop the killings: Northern Ireland, the Basque country, South Tyrol, Malaysia, etc. I think one can and should have more hope, rather than thinking that ethnic cleansing is ever a good idea.
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Where do you send Palestinians?
One of the reasons the region is in the mess it is was that the trauma of the Holocaust understandably led Jews to seek a safe haven and country of their own elsewhere. If Palestinians are moved on to a home elsewhere you repeat the cycle.
I don't think there's any alternative to the hard work of peace-building, one day, one person at a time.
It would have to be away from the Middle East. Either North Africa - which might welcome the injection of investment - or even further. Indonesia?
I know this sounds like dreamland but then it needs a bit of dreaming to fix this
The alternative is more of the same for year after year, decade after decade. Even if the “west” prevails on Israel to let up right now, the Gazans will commit some terrible Jew-killing soon enough, then Israel will go at it again, and this satanic cycle will continue
Who benefits from that? Literally no one. Manufacturers of white phosphorus maybe
It would have to be a sensible sum, not $5,000 per Gazan, but perhaps, more like $200,000? That is $300bn, which split between the US and Israel is certainly doable.
Fascinating Speccie article on “can Reform be stopped”
Choice paragraph
“One answer to what can stop Farage might once have been Farage himself, whose intensity used to waver between elections.
Now allies describe a man for whom a working day of 4.30 a.m. to 11 p.m. is not unusual. ‘All his bodyguards are ex-SAS and parachute regiment and they’re knackered trying to keep up,’ one friend says. ‘He spent three days preparing for that crime press conference so he was across the detail. There is a seriousness there. Does he want to be prime minister? I’m not sure he does. But he feels: if not him, then who? He feels it’s his duty, and perhaps his destiny.’”
Strange. When political aides start describing their leader as some sort of superman it normally means something is up. Nigel's appeal isn't in him being an ultra-driven, obsessive, little-bit-odd, Dominic-Cummings-type insomniac. Why are they putting that about?
Twas my thought as well, while I have stopped for my lunch and watching a herd of reindeer trot by.
This is clearly spin, but why? Maybe just because polls are finding that Farage's reputation as spending more time in the saloon bar than the office or the house is starting to become a drag?
The problem is it's rather killed Nigel's social life. The moment he's spotted sauntering around a cricket ground, a racecourse or a pub everyone will now say: aren't you supposed to be working, or was the Comrade Stakhanov stuff a complete load of bollox and you're just spinning like all the rest? Nigel needs to keep it simple and not tailor his image according to focus groups.
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Where do you send Palestinians?
One of the reasons the region is in the mess it is was that the trauma of the Holocaust understandably led Jews to seek a safe haven and country of their own elsewhere. If Palestinians are moved on to a home elsewhere you repeat the cycle.
I don't think there's any alternative to the hard work of peace-building, one day, one person at a time.
About 99% of the land in the Middle East is Muslim-controlled, plenty of place for refugees to go to avoid the war and avoid getting killed in the conflict with Hamas.
An unpleasant solution, but a realistic one that can break the never-ending cycle of violence and save lives.
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Dismal, depressing, and probably correct.
There are many examples of longstanding ethnic tensions being resolved successfully, and others of being resolved maybe not so successfully, but enough to stop the killings: Northern Ireland, the Basque country, South Tyrol, Malaysia, etc. I think one can and should have more hope, rather than thinking that ethnic cleansing is ever a good idea.
On the other hand war has broken out between Thailand and Cambodia over a 100-year border dispute:
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Dismal, depressing, and probably correct.
There are many examples of longstanding ethnic tensions being resolved successfully, and others of being resolved maybe not so successfully, but enough to stop the killings: Northern Ireland, the Basque country, South Tyrol, Malaysia, etc. I think one can and should have more hope, rather than thinking that ethnic cleansing is ever a good idea.
Blah blah blah - plus a little dig about “ethnic cleansing”. You’re gonna have to be a bit more concrete
Propose a practical medium term solution to this problem, that allows the Israelis and Palestinians to live together and in peace. And it has to be in the realms of the do-able
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Dismal, depressing, and probably correct.
There are many examples of longstanding ethnic tensions being resolved successfully, and others of being resolved maybe not so successfully, but enough to stop the killings: Northern Ireland, the Basque country, South Tyrol, Malaysia, etc. I think one can and should have more hope, rather than thinking that ethnic cleansing is ever a good idea.
There are many examples of longstanding tensions being resolved successfully via one side achieving a military victory and/or population movements too.
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Where do you send Palestinians?
One of the reasons the region is in the mess it is was that the trauma of the Holocaust understandably led Jews to seek a safe haven and country of their own elsewhere. If Palestinians are moved on to a home elsewhere you repeat the cycle.
I don't think there's any alternative to the hard work of peace-building, one day, one person at a time.
It would have to be away from the Middle East. Either North Africa - which might welcome the injection of investment - or even further. Indonesia?
I know this sounds like dreamland but then it needs a bit of dreaming to fix this
The alternative is more of the same for year after year, decade after decade. Even if the “west” prevails on Israel to let up right now, the Gazans will commit some terrible Jew-killing soon enough, then Israel will go at it again, and this satanic cycle will continue
Who benefits from that? Literally no one. Manufacturers of white phosphorus maybe
Part of the problem is countries that have taken palestinians in have found them to be an irritant and are no longer welcome them because of this
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Where do you send Palestinians?
One of the reasons the region is in the mess it is was that the trauma of the Holocaust understandably led Jews to seek a safe haven and country of their own elsewhere. If Palestinians are moved on to a home elsewhere you repeat the cycle.
I don't think there's any alternative to the hard work of peace-building, one day, one person at a time.
About 99% of the land in the Middle East is Muslim-controlled, plenty of place for refugees to go to avoid the war and avoid getting killed in the conflict with Hamas.
An unpleasant solution, but a realistic one that can break the never-ending cycle of violence and save lives.
Fascinating Speccie article on “can Reform be stopped”
Choice paragraph
“One answer to what can stop Farage might once have been Farage himself, whose intensity used to waver between elections.
Now allies describe a man for whom a working day of 4.30 a.m. to 11 p.m. is not unusual. ‘All his bodyguards are ex-SAS and parachute regiment and they’re knackered trying to keep up,’ one friend says. ‘He spent three days preparing for that crime press conference so he was across the detail. There is a seriousness there. Does he want to be prime minister? I’m not sure he does. But he feels: if not him, then who? He feels it’s his duty, and perhaps his destiny.’”
Strange. When political aides start describing their leader as some sort of superman it normally means something is up. Nigel's appeal isn't in him being an ultra-driven, obsessive, little-bit-odd, Dominic-Cummings-type insomniac. Why are they putting that about?
Twas my thought as well, while I have stopped for my lunch and watching a herd of reindeer trot by.
This is clearly spin, but why? Maybe just because polls are finding that Farage's reputation as spending more time in the saloon bar than the office or the house is starting to become a drag?
Also makes a neat contrast with Kemi B, who rather seems to not be putting in the hours. What matters here is the Ref/Con split, not the RefCon/LLG split, which is still pretty stable.
That’s an astute point. With all this talk of Kemi doomscrolling and hiding in her AirPods, this is also probably a deliberate way to show Nige is the more serious politician (which he probably is) as well as vastly more capable
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Where do you send Palestinians?
One of the reasons the region is in the mess it is was that the trauma of the Holocaust understandably led Jews to seek a safe haven and country of their own elsewhere. If Palestinians are moved on to a home elsewhere you repeat the cycle.
I don't think there's any alternative to the hard work of peace-building, one day, one person at a time.
About 99% of the land in the Middle East is Muslim-controlled, plenty of place for refugees to go to avoid the war and avoid getting killed in the conflict with Hamas.
An unpleasant solution, but a realistic one that can break the never-ending cycle of violence and save lives.
Fascinating Speccie article on “can Reform be stopped”
Choice paragraph
“One answer to what can stop Farage might once have been Farage himself, whose intensity used to waver between elections.
Now allies describe a man for whom a working day of 4.30 a.m. to 11 p.m. is not unusual. ‘All his bodyguards are ex-SAS and parachute regiment and they’re knackered trying to keep up,’ one friend says. ‘He spent three days preparing for that crime press conference so he was across the detail. There is a seriousness there. Does he want to be prime minister? I’m not sure he does. But he feels: if not him, then who? He feels it’s his duty, and perhaps his destiny.’”
Strange. When political aides start describing their leader as some sort of superman it normally means something is up. Nigel's appeal isn't in him being an ultra-driven, obsessive, little-bit-odd, Dominic-Cummings-type insomniac. Why are they putting that about?
Twas my thought as well, while I have stopped for my lunch and watching a herd of reindeer trot by.
This is clearly spin, but why? Maybe just because polls are finding that Farage's reputation as spending more time in the saloon bar than the office or the house is starting to become a drag?
Check their ears. Each deer will have one cut in a distinct pattern which indicates the owner. Each herder has their own recognised pattern. And if some drift across the border to Norway, the other Sami will use WhatsApp to alter the owner to come and collect them. Apart from the Russian Sami who apparently cannot find any missing deer.
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Dismal, depressing, and probably correct.
There are many examples of longstanding ethnic tensions being resolved successfully, and others of being resolved maybe not so successfully, but enough to stop the killings: Northern Ireland, the Basque country, South Tyrol, Malaysia, etc. I think one can and should have more hope, rather than thinking that ethnic cleansing is ever a good idea.
On the other hand war has broken out between Thailand and Cambodia over a 100-year border dispute:
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Where do you send Palestinians?
One of the reasons the region is in the mess it is was that the trauma of the Holocaust understandably led Jews to seek a safe haven and country of their own elsewhere. If Palestinians are moved on to a home elsewhere you repeat the cycle.
I don't think there's any alternative to the hard work of peace-building, one day, one person at a time.
It would have to be away from the Middle East. Either North Africa - which might welcome the injection of investment - or even further. Indonesia?
I know this sounds like dreamland but then it needs a bit of dreaming to fix this
The alternative is more of the same for year after year, decade after decade. Even if the “west” prevails on Israel to let up right now, the Gazans will commit some terrible Jew-killing soon enough, then Israel will go at it again, and this satanic cycle will continue
Who benefits from that? Literally no one. Manufacturers of white phosphorus maybe
It would have to be a sensible sum, not $5,000 per Gazan, but perhaps, more like $200,000? That is $300bn, which split between the US and Israel is certainly doable.
Yes, it needs to be in major six figures per gazan. Life changing sums of money. Give them all gorgeous houses with sea views - give them lovely lives and opportunities so the hate slowly drains away. Why not try it?
A new city on the Libyan coast? Or Sumatra? Who knows?
And given that it’s in the interests of the entire world that this is solved, the sizeable cost could be shared worldwide
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Dismal, depressing, and probably correct.
There are many examples of longstanding ethnic tensions being resolved successfully, and others of being resolved maybe not so successfully, but enough to stop the killings: Northern Ireland, the Basque country, South Tyrol, Malaysia, etc. I think one can and should have more hope, rather than thinking that ethnic cleansing is ever a good idea.
There are many examples of longstanding tensions being resolved successfully via one side achieving a military victory and/or population movements too.
You stand up for the right of individuals to live their lives in most of your posts, yet if someone is on the wrong side of a war, your attitude appears to be "fuck 'em, they should be ethnically cleansed".
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
I also normally avoid this topic, for almost exactly the reason you challenged Roger - my views are fairly set, and all I end up doing is ranting, which is entirely pointless.
Your challenge as to what the solution is, is a good one - whilst I would pick holes in Trump's solution I am not sure I can offer a better one, other than tinkering around the edges. And perhaps that's all that is possible at the moment.
Anyway, I wasn't seeking to reopen the discussion, but I appreciate you accepting the apology.
Realistically, though, there isn't going to be any kind of solution any time soon.
In the meantime, a large number of civilians are in danger of starvation.
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
I also normally avoid this topic, for almost exactly the reason you challenged Roger - my views are fairly set, and all I end up doing is ranting, which is entirely pointless.
Your challenge as to what the solution is, is a good one - whilst I would pick holes in Trump's solution I am not sure I can offer a better one, other than tinkering around the edges. And perhaps that's all that is possible at the moment.
Anyway, I wasn't seeking to reopen the discussion, but I appreciate you accepting the apology.
Realistically, though, there isn't going to be any kind of solution any time soon.
In the meantime, a large number of civilians are in danger of starvation.
Hamas needs to put the people first and release hostages and hand in its arms
Fascinating Speccie article on “can Reform be stopped”
Choice paragraph
“One answer to what can stop Farage might once have been Farage himself, whose intensity used to waver between elections.
Now allies describe a man for whom a working day of 4.30 a.m. to 11 p.m. is not unusual. ‘All his bodyguards are ex-SAS and parachute regiment and they’re knackered trying to keep up,’ one friend says. ‘He spent three days preparing for that crime press conference so he was across the detail. There is a seriousness there. Does he want to be prime minister? I’m not sure he does. But he feels: if not him, then who? He feels it’s his duty, and perhaps his destiny.’”
Strange. When political aides start describing their leader as some sort of superman it normally means something is up. Nigel's appeal isn't in him being an ultra-driven, obsessive, little-bit-odd, Dominic-Cummings-type insomniac. Why are they putting that about?
His image is of being a louche layabout. It definitely makes sense to put it about that he's taking politics a lot more seriously and will work hard for the voters.
Not sure I find the messianic touch at all reassuring though.
The Stoßtrupp-Nigel made up of retired SAS & Paras is what any man of destiny would require.
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
I also normally avoid this topic, for almost exactly the reason you challenged Roger - my views are fairly set, and all I end up doing is ranting, which is entirely pointless.
Your challenge as to what the solution is, is a good one - whilst I would pick holes in Trump's solution I am not sure I can offer a better one, other than tinkering around the edges. And perhaps that's all that is possible at the moment.
Anyway, I wasn't seeking to reopen the discussion, but I appreciate you accepting the apology.
Realistically, though, there isn't going to be any kind of solution any time soon.
In the meantime, a large number of civilians are in danger of starvation.
The only way to remedy that is to replace the current Israeli government with one that's not full of mad racists so they will let in aid.
And the only way to achieve that would be for the flying pig to dive bomb Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir.
Convicted drug smuggler Jay Emmanuel-Thomas has returned to football after being released from prison.
The ex-Arsenal and Ipswich Town striker had served more than 10 months of a four-year sentence behind bars, having been jailed in June for masterminding the importation of £600,000 worth of cannabis at London Stansted Airport
Convicted drug smuggler Jay Emmanuel-Thomas has returned to football after being released from prison.
The ex-Arsenal and Ipswich Town striker had served more than 10 months of a four-year sentence behind bars, having been jailed in June for masterminding the importation of £600,000 worth of cannabis at London Stansted Airport
Ten months of a four year sentence? So people are now doing 20% of the sentence imposed
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Where do you send Palestinians?
One of the reasons the region is in the mess it is was that the trauma of the Holocaust understandably led Jews to seek a safe haven and country of their own elsewhere. If Palestinians are moved on to a home elsewhere you repeat the cycle.
I don't think there's any alternative to the hard work of peace-building, one day, one person at a time.
It would have to be away from the Middle East. Either North Africa - which might welcome the injection of investment - or even further. Indonesia?
I know this sounds like dreamland but then it needs a bit of dreaming to fix this
The alternative is more of the same for year after year, decade after decade. Even if the “west” prevails on Israel to let up right now, the Gazans will commit some terrible Jew-killing soon enough, then Israel will go at it again, and this satanic cycle will continue
Who benefits from that? Literally no one. Manufacturers of white phosphorus maybe
I remember our having a very similar conversation about this during (I think) the Obama presidency.
It's probably true that, in the end, a lot of money from an outside source, coupled with some sort of land deal, will lead to some kind of solution. But while Israel and its various neighbours are engaged in at least three separate hot, or hottish military conflicts, the likelihood of any such thing being negotiated (by Trump or anyone else) is pretty low.
Convicted drug smuggler Jay Emmanuel-Thomas has returned to football after being released from prison.
The ex-Arsenal and Ipswich Town striker had served more than 10 months of a four-year sentence behind bars, having been jailed in June for masterminding the importation of £600,000 worth of cannabis at London Stansted Airport
Ten months of a four year sentence? So people are now doing 20% of the sentence imposed
I see despite cries of l’m a gonna stop talking about Gaza the same folk are still talking about Gaza, if in a somewhat recurrent manner. We should all take pretendy centrist dad Nick Tyrone’s advice and concentrate on the really important stuff, eg us being bad at railways.
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Where do you send Palestinians?
One of the reasons the region is in the mess it is was that the trauma of the Holocaust understandably led Jews to seek a safe haven and country of their own elsewhere. If Palestinians are moved on to a home elsewhere you repeat the cycle.
I don't think there's any alternative to the hard work of peace-building, one day, one person at a time.
It would have to be away from the Middle East. Either North Africa - which might welcome the injection of investment - or even further. Indonesia?
I know this sounds like dreamland but then it needs a bit of dreaming to fix this
The alternative is more of the same for year after year, decade after decade. Even if the “west” prevails on Israel to let up right now, the Gazans will commit some terrible Jew-killing soon enough, then Israel will go at it again, and this satanic cycle will continue
Who benefits from that? Literally no one. Manufacturers of white phosphorus maybe
You're basically advocating a new Madagascar Plan (which few people realise was originally a pre-war French and Polish scheme) without having any idea where this Madagascar will be. Anywhere capable of supporting such a large population will already be settled, and dropping them into some wilderness and expecting them to build a new Birobidzhan out of nothing isn't realistic or acceptable nowadays.
Besides, tons of Irish left for the States after the various Irish uprisings, and those that became economically successful went on to sponsor and fund terrorism back in their home country for almost a century thereafter. Distance is not a guarantee of peace.
Trump is simply looking at the real estate possibilities of creating a coastal strip, like Florida or coastal NJ, in Gaza, and neither knows nor cares where the people who live there would go.
Morning all. A bit of cricket nerdery following Pants injury. In 1986, England wicket keeper Bruce French was injured batting vs New Zealand and was replaced behind the stumps by retired 45 year old ex england keeper Bob Taylor who was in the crowd watching. The Hampshire keeper Bob Parks then took over from him for the remainder of the match, never otherwise being called up for England
I watched on telly (might have been highlights, cant recall) and remember Taylor being not too shabby for an OAP
Morning all. A bit of cricket nerdery following Pants injury. In 1986, England wicket keeper Bruce French was injured batting vs New Zealand and was replaced behind the stumps by retired 45 year old ex england keeper Bob Taylor who was in the crowd watching. The Hampshire keeper Bob Parks then took over from him for the remainder of the match, never otherwise being called up for England
I watched on telly (might have been highlights, cant recall) and remember Taylor being not too shabby for an OAP
Morning all. A bit of cricket nerdery following Pants injury. In 1986, England wicket keeper Bruce French was injured batting vs New Zealand and was replaced behind the stumps by retired 45 year old ex england keeper Bob Taylor who was in the crowd watching. The Hampshire keeper Bob Parks then took over from him for the remainder of the match, never otherwise being called up for England
I watched on telly (might have been highlights, cant recall) and remember Taylor being not too shabby for an OAP
Convicted drug smuggler Jay Emmanuel-Thomas has returned to football after being released from prison.
The ex-Arsenal and Ipswich Town striker had served more than 10 months of a four-year sentence behind bars, having been jailed in June for masterminding the importation of £600,000 worth of cannabis at London Stansted Airport
Ten months of a four year sentence? So people are now doing 20% of the sentence imposed
Convicted drug smuggler Jay Emmanuel-Thomas has returned to football after being released from prison.
The ex-Arsenal and Ipswich Town striker had served more than 10 months of a four-year sentence behind bars, having been jailed in June for masterminding the importation of £600,000 worth of cannabis at London Stansted Airport
Ten months of a four year sentence? So people are now doing 20% of the sentence imposed
He was on remand for 9 months.
The footballer spent more than 10 months in prison, of which about eight and a half were on remand ahead of his sentencing.
As an aside, Laila Cunningham seems a risky selection for this role, though she does give Reform a prominent muslim. She was Tory candidate for Rotherham, and withdrew immediately before the deadline reportedly (by Ed McGuinness, who has Spectator and Telegraph bylines) because she had forgotten to tell her employer - the CPS - that she was standing. She may drop some balls.
She is now a Westminster Councillor, and I'd say Reform is Plan B to be an MP, having messed her copy book with the Conservatives.
This is the holocaust all over again. This time done by Jews.
Oh, but you who philosophize, disgrace and criticize all fears Bury the rag deep in your face for now's the time for your tears
It's horrendous. The Israelis have slaughtered more civilians in Gaza in two years than the Nazis killed in Bergen Belsen in four. And we're still listening to the tape of Richard Attenborough's heartbreaking broadcast 80 years on.
If you want a serious debate, rather than a rant - what do you honestly think the Gazans would do to Israeli Jews, given the chance?
And how do you see this being solved? What should Israel do, to bring this to a humane resolution?
Meh. You're apologising for genocide. There may not be a solution. There may not be a resolution. That doesn't make mass starvation okay.
F off. I'm not apologising. I'm just not gonna sit here and bleat, whine and virtuously signal my outrage, performatively. There needs to be a solution. The only solution that can satisfy all sides, at this late appalling stage, is what Trump said. Mad as that sounds
Fair enough. I read implicit justification for what David linked to in your post. If that was my misread, I apologise.
I think seeking solutions to the bigger problem at this stage is a fool's game, if it serves as any distraction at all from solving the immediate problem of forcing Israel and Egypt to let aid in so that fewer innocent people starve.
I wanted to make a proper apology for my post to you last night. It was totally uncalled for. I dipped into the thread, had a strong emotional reaction to David's post and then read your reply outside of the context of your other posts on the topic e.g. the one where you agree that young Gazans will inevitably be radicalised by what is currently going on.
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
That’s very gracious of you
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Where do you send Palestinians?
One of the reasons the region is in the mess it is was that the trauma of the Holocaust understandably led Jews to seek a safe haven and country of their own elsewhere. If Palestinians are moved on to a home elsewhere you repeat the cycle.
I don't think there's any alternative to the hard work of peace-building, one day, one person at a time.
It would have to be away from the Middle East. Either North Africa - which might welcome the injection of investment - or even further. Indonesia?
I know this sounds like dreamland but then it needs a bit of dreaming to fix this
The alternative is more of the same for year after year, decade after decade. Even if the “west” prevails on Israel to let up right now, the Gazans will commit some terrible Jew-killing soon enough, then Israel will go at it again, and this satanic cycle will continue
Who benefits from that? Literally no one. Manufacturers of white phosphorus maybe
You're basically advocating a new Madagascar Plan (which few people realise was originally a pre-war French and Polish scheme) without having any idea where this Madagascar will be. Anywhere capable of supporting such a large population will already be settled, and dropping them into some wilderness and expecting them to build a new Birobidzhan out of nothing isn't realistic or acceptable nowadays.
Besides, tons of Irish left for the States after the various Irish uprisings, and those that became economically successful went on to sponsor and fund terrorism back in their home country for almost a century thereafter. Distance is not a guarantee of peace.
Trump is simply looking at the real estate possibilities of creating a coastal strip, like Florida or coastal NJ, in Gaza, and neither knows nor cares where the people who live there would go.
Well, I had a go at essaying a solution. That might actually work - rather than just venting and ranting and performatively weeping
I’m not saying my solution WILL work. I am saying I cannot see anyone else suggesting any other alternatives
But I shall now shut up on this subject, again. Whenever I get into this issue I am always briskly reminded why I usually avoid it
Morning all. A bit of cricket nerdery following Pants injury. In 1986, England wicket keeper Bruce French was injured batting vs New Zealand and was replaced behind the stumps by retired 45 year old ex england keeper Bob Taylor who was in the crowd watching. The Hampshire keeper Bob Parks then took over from him for the remainder of the match, never otherwise being called up for England
I watched on telly (might have been highlights, cant recall) and remember Taylor being not too shabby for an OAP
Comments
The HSE's guide to what this means is set out here - https://www.hse.gov.uk/simple-health-safety/workplace-facilities/health-safety.htm.
It is curious that none of the Fife managers appear - on their own evidence - to be aware of these long-standing requirements.
I am also amused by the A&E consultant, Dr Searle, claiming that she did not realise that emails she sent at work about a disciplinary investigation were not personal. (There is an issue around why some damaging emails coped to six doctors were not disclosed until very late in the process.)
For the hard of understanding, an email sent at work to work colleagues on a work computer about a work matter is not, in any sense, a "personal email".
A consultant with line manager responsibilities - as this consultant had - is either lying, being very disingenuous (if you want to be kind) or is incredibly dense if they believe otherwise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN1Epxqttgk&list=PLdz_rC7tjXMuxoF-Zu7mHdSKZPoWe6I2d&index=2
13:23 and 26:26.
If Presidents were allowed to run for a third term though on current polls Obama would be favourite to beat Trump
Ultimately, in a democracy, only the people can do this. Which is why I like the Swiss system.
Old grey hair himself all decrepit and 45 years old lol
You can't afford the mind bleach
11 mins 30 secs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSvYaxBcW_o
What are those?
MAGA Republican candidates did worse than more establishment Republican candidates in the 2018 midterms and 2020 Congressional elections
Choice paragraph
“One answer to what can stop Farage might once have been Farage himself, whose intensity used to waver between elections.
Now allies describe a man for whom a working day of 4.30 a.m. to 11 p.m. is not unusual. ‘All his bodyguards are ex-SAS and parachute regiment and they’re knackered trying to keep up,’ one friend says. ‘He spent three days preparing for that crime press conference so he was across the detail. There is a seriousness there. Does he want to be prime minister? I’m not sure he does. But he feels: if not him, then who? He feels it’s his duty, and perhaps his destiny.’”
Having now read back through the thread it was very clear that I wasn't justified in claiming you were apologising for genocide - I was reading a subtext that just wasn't there. Sorry.
Of course, Trump might think he can repeal the 22nd. So what happens if he issues an executive order, which would be invalid: would that satisfy the bet?
I think Trump might try something, but it would be such in legal wrangles for years, so what happens to the bet?
An attempt to repeal the 22nd with Trump allowed to run for president as the case is argued is very different to an attempt to repeal the 22nd with Trump unable to stand while the case is argued.
In the former case it’s possible that the 22nd becomes irrelevant whatever the 2028 result is
He's second on the list.
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=batting_average;qualmax2=0;qualmin1=500;qualmin2=0;qualval1=runs;qualval2=hundreds;template=results;type=batting
Were I a member of the Greens, I'd vote for Chowns, but I'm not. As a LibDem, maybe I should want Zack to win? Polanski's vision is for a Corbynite party with a green tinge. He could do well hoovering up the hard left vote against an anaemic Labour Party, but he faces competition from Corbyn, Sultana etc. I also suspect there may be a ceiling to what that approach can get.
A Polanski-led Green Party would send a bunch of the people who voted for Chowns or Ramsay as MPs into the arms of the LibDems
The thing is I’ve made my feelings clear about this horror for years. I’ve seen Israel - personally, when visiting it - go from fairly admirable democracy to something closer to fascism (apartheid is certainly a valid comparison). But I’ve also witnessed the lurid anti-Semitism of the Palestinians - they really do want to drive the Jews into the sea
How do you solve that? You can’t. The two state idea (esp after October 7) is dead, it’s even more dead after this horrific assault on Gaza - Gazans will justifiably want revenge for generations
The only possible “solution” is Trump’s - even if people hate Trump. Give Gazans loads of money (much more than he suggests) and find them a home elsewhere. Away from Israel
It’s cruel and sad and unjust but I don’t see any other superior route that actually makes Gazan lives better. Or that acknowledges Israel’s now firm refusal to live alongside Palestinians
Hey Ho. I tried. I normally avoid this topic, I shall go back to ignoring it
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth, as one man said. And being Prime Minister is all about being repeatedly punched in the mouth from multiple directions at once. Events, dear boy, as another man said.
Employment in both the manufacturing and service sectors fell for the 10th consecutive month during July, the S&P Global Flash UK PMI showed.
On that front @HYUFD I sent you a private message (3rd reminder) a week or two ago now. Have you seen it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVgcE72zaw0
Your challenge as to what the solution is, is a good one - whilst I would pick holes in Trump's solution I am not sure I can offer a better one, other than tinkering around the edges. And perhaps that's all that is possible at the moment.
Anyway, I wasn't seeking to reopen the discussion, but I appreciate you accepting the apology.
One of the reasons the region is in the mess it is was that the trauma of the Holocaust understandably led Jews to seek a safe haven and country of their own elsewhere. If Palestinians are moved on to a home elsewhere you repeat the cycle.
I don't think there's any alternative to the hard work of peace-building, one day, one person at a time.
Not sure I find the messianic touch at all reassuring though.
After play has begun, no.
I have just seen James Anderson bowl a bad ball. That may be something I never see again.
I know this sounds like dreamland but then it needs a bit of dreaming to fix this
The alternative is more of the same for year after year, decade after decade. Even if the “west” prevails on Israel to let up right now, the Gazans will commit some terrible Jew-killing soon enough, then Israel will go at it again, and this satanic cycle will continue
Who benefits from that? Literally no one. Manufacturers of white phosphorus maybe
He's been doing it in various respects for some time - for example in softening his formerly declared hard line on candidate vetting.
This is clearly spin, but why? Maybe just because polls are finding that Farage's reputation as spending more time in the saloon bar than the office or the house is starting to become a drag?
An unpleasant solution, but a realistic one that can break the never-ending cycle of violence and save lives.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c80p8z0y0eko
Propose a practical medium term solution to this problem, that allows the Israelis and Palestinians to live together and in peace. And it has to be in the realms of the do-able
https://x.com/thesmokedace/status/1948240752594841969
First rule of making comedy political, it has to be funny above all else, and you have to have a go at everyone.
Which is why South Park got renewed and Colbert got cancelled.
All 37%
Millennials 39%
Generation X 38%
Boomers 49%
Men 48%
Women 27%
https://yougov.co.uk/ratings/politics/popularity/other-uk-public-figures/all
Probably explains why he's started doing press conferences with Sarah Pochin on one side and Laila Cunningham on the other.
A new city on the Libyan coast? Or Sumatra? Who knows?
And given that it’s in the interests of the entire world that this is solved, the sizeable cost could be shared worldwide
In the meantime, a large number of civilians are in danger of starvation.
Hamas needs to put the people first and release hostages and hand in its arms
And the only way to achieve that would be for the flying pig to dive bomb Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir.
Hence perhaps the focus on crime. Our crumbling high streets and the rise in sexual assaults
The ex-Arsenal and Ipswich Town striker had served more than 10 months of a four-year sentence behind bars, having been jailed in June for masterminding the importation of £600,000 worth of cannabis at London Stansted Airport
It's probably true that, in the end, a lot of money from an outside source, coupled with some sort of land deal, will lead to some kind of solution.
But while Israel and its various neighbours are engaged in at least three separate hot, or hottish military conflicts, the likelihood of any such thing being negotiated (by Trump or anyone else) is pretty low.
https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1948337475304186169?s=19
We should all take pretendy centrist dad Nick Tyrone’s advice and concentrate on the really important stuff, eg us being bad at railways.
https://x.com/nicholastyrone/status/1948025580907106530?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
https://x.com/nicholastyrone/status/1948039273531289752?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
Besides, tons of Irish left for the States after the various Irish uprisings, and those that became economically successful went on to sponsor and fund terrorism back in their home country for almost a century thereafter. Distance is not a guarantee of peace.
Trump is simply looking at the real estate possibilities of creating a coastal strip, like Florida or coastal NJ, in Gaza, and neither knows nor cares where the people who live there would go.
He also once took a direct blow fielding silly mid on and when the batsman asked if he was OK said 'you cant hit it hard enough to hurt me'
Unlike Ollie Price. He rather flinched with that one from Blatherwick, admittedly it hit him in a Certain Place.
Thats thr Junior Doctors fked
He has only done 10 months of bird in totality.
For example, Pochin questioning the suitability of women for the police force:
the MP said: "I never feel comfortable actually seeing two female police officers together.
"I'd much rather see a great big strapping male police officer with a female.
"I think they look vulnerable.
"I think that we do need to be aware of our police being able to protect us that's what they're there for."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8z9dlypg8o
As an aside, Laila Cunningham seems a risky selection for this role, though she does give Reform a prominent muslim. She was Tory candidate for Rotherham, and withdrew immediately before the deadline reportedly (by Ed McGuinness, who has Spectator and Telegraph bylines) because she had forgotten to tell her employer - the CPS - that she was standing. She may drop some balls.
She is now a Westminster Councillor, and I'd say Reform is Plan B to be an MP, having messed her copy book with the Conservatives.
https://x.com/EJ_McGuinness/status/1947597520785346677
I’m not saying my solution WILL work. I am saying I cannot see anyone else suggesting any other alternatives
But I shall now shut up on this subject, again. Whenever I get into this issue I am always briskly reminded why I usually avoid it
Time for coffee