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Angela Rayner is in touch with the public (sadly they are both wrong) – politicalbetting.com

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  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,347

    Are the Druze Muslim? You should simply ask them. If they don't think they are then we shouldn't consider them as such. Sawers suggests that Israel would prefer a fragmented Syria rather than a united one. Or perhaps they would prefer a plural Syria to an ideological one that seeks to massacre minorities for obvious reasons.

    The Druze faith is an offshoot of the Ismaili sect, itself a branch of Shia Islam. A bit like the Maltese language being an offshoot of Arabic, but clearly not the same language.
    Well I wouldn't compare religion to language. It's a matter of personal belief. They don't consider themselves Muslims. And it is wrong for Sawers to assume that because Israel doesn't want a ISIS style government in Syria, it's prefers a failed state. Is there lots of money in bashing Israel on the international lecture circuit?
    I think the taxonomic comparison is perhaps reasonable. Both are products of evolution over time.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,713
    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    The weird thing here - is that there would be a lot of possible votes from those white people forced to live in HMOs because of their low income and lack of opportunities - but they seem to be 100% focussed on illegal immigrants.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,347
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    "local churchwarden"

    lol
    Your point?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,627
    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    This is quite something. The ex-head of the UK’s Secret Intelligence Service is interviewed by CNN about “Israel, Syria and the Druze”

    He makes the crucial point that the Druze are Muslims

    https://x.com/hearnimator/status/1945790676131512454?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Only problem, the Druze are not Muslims. How come I know that - and he doesn’t? He was the head of the SIS. His job is to know basic facts like this

    We are absolutely screwed. We are led by idiots. In all regards

    It is an offshoot of the Ishmaili Muslim tradition though.
    They themselves don’t consider themselves Muslim, and as we are all about the self ID and lived experience these days then it’s really their opinion that matters.
    I must I was surprised to see @Leon in favour of self ID

    Politically they tend to be aligned with the Muslims though. It depends on the context in the interview - he would have had limited time and was possibly focused on making a more important point than explaining just how the Druze fit into the patchwork of faiths in the Levant.
    Or he’s an idiot. Given what we’ve just learned about British intel in Afghanistan, I’m going with that. He’s an idiot
    He said “the Druze are Arabs then Muslims. They are part of the network of ethnic and religious groups in Syria”. It’s not as clear as it might be, but not as simple as you are representing.

    The point he was making is that it is the Israeli government is probably lying - it is unlikely that they are intervening because they are concerned about the Druze (as an Arab, Muslim heritage group) - and far more likely that they are trying to create a divided and weak Syria by supporting one specific sub-group

    That’s an important point that you seem to have missed. And pretty astute. A moron would get distracted by the tiny detail rather than focus on what matters.
    They are not Muslims. He said they are Muslims

    It’s pretty basic stuff. It’s like me saying you’re an upper class twit when you’re lower middle class, as you’ve told us
    That’s NOT what he said. I took the trouble to quote his words. He said they are Arabs, and distinguished that status from the Muslim classification (“then Muslims”). “Then Muslims” is not the same as “are Muslims”.

    He was talking about the hierarchy of identities.

    Druze are culturally closer to being Muslim than they are to being Jewish.

    He was being very precise in his language, although it could have been been clearer for the non expert listener.

    What do you think the probability is of a militantly nationalistic Jewish state supporting the Druze because they sympathise with them?

    That’s the point he was making: that Israel is looking to turn Syria into another Somalia - something which is absolutely contrary to British policy and interests.
    I note that in the Lebanese Parliament, which Elects its MPs as half representing the "Christian" communities, and half representing the "Muslim" communities, the Druze are included in the Muslim half - and that it is reasonable to read hat across. As per Article 24 of the Lebanese Constitution. So I'm inclined to think that the interviewee was on fairly firm ground, and @Leon is a little fixated on a technical-sounding detail - Bart style :wink: .

    There are 18 officially recognized religious groups: five Muslim groups (Shia, Sunni, Druze, Alawite, and Ismaili), 12 Christian groups (Maronite, Greek Orthodox, Greek Catholic, Armenian Catholic, Armenian Orthodox, Syriac Orthodox, Syriac Catholic, Assyrian, Chaldean, Copt, evangelical Protestant, and Roman Catholic), and Jews. Religious groups not recognized by the government include Baha’is, Buddhists, Hindus, several Protestant groups, and the Church of Jesus Christ.
    https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-report-on-international-religious-freedom/lebanon
    So Anglicans not recognised as Christian then by Lebanon unless they are evangelical Protestants
    "Evangelical" means Lutherans, and under the Porvoo declaration that includes Anglicans. It does not mean the megachurches of the US with their unpleasant snake oil salesmen, unless they are legally affiliated to a recognised church.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,244
    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    She is absolutely no loss to the conservatives

    Indeed any conservatives of a like mind should also join Reform
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,352
    Leon said:

    Ominous for Oz

    This could kill rugby union in Australia

    Australia 0 Scotland 10

    They’ll be rejoicing in the highland castle of the Tuipulotu clan.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,136

    Leon said:

    Ominous for Oz

    This could kill rugby union in Australia

    Australia 0 Scotland 10

    They’ll be rejoicing in the highland castle of the Tuipulotu clan.
    This could/should be an almighty win for the Lions

    I wonder if this is the last ever Lions tour to Oz
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,053
    Get in there!!!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,141
    ...

    Leon said:

    Ominous for Oz

    This could kill rugby union in Australia

    Australia 0 Scotland 10

    They’ll be rejoicing in the highland castle of the Tuipulotu clan.
    That was uncanny! I think the ghost of Bill McLaren just entered the thread.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,136
    These replays are ridiculous
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,136
    That was a try. This is wank
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,093
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    The weird thing here - is that there would be a lot of possible votes from those white people forced to live in HMOs because of their low income and lack of opportunities - but they seem to be 100% focussed on illegal immigrants.
    HMOs can be very diverse places. I saw a TV programme about one that had a white student, posh black guy and a well spoken woman. I seem to remember it was exposing the damp issues.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,244

    ...

    Leon said:

    Ominous for Oz

    This could kill rugby union in Australia

    Australia 0 Scotland 10

    They’ll be rejoicing in the highland castle of the Tuipulotu clan.
    That was uncanny! I think the ghost of Bill McLaren just entered the thread.
    It may be many years, if ever, Wales contributes to the British Lions in view of the sorry state of Welsh rugby
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,043

    isam said:

    I had the idea that age shouldn’t be a factor when it comes to voting, and that a better way was to only allow those who had four GCSE’s at C or above (or whatever the equivalent is now, a number?). The downsides would be that it rules out those who are clever but not academically minded, and immigrants who didn’t go to school here , although going to night school or learning at home in order to get the vote might improve assimilation

    Sure. As long as the people who don't get to vote don't get to pay taxes. ;)
    Or you could turn it around the other way. If you don’t pay Income Tax or NI you don’t get to vote.
    Would be more interesting if it was Income Tax AND National Insurance. Suddenly those past the retirement age might want to pay NI.
    An argument for combining the two.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,136

    ...

    Leon said:

    Ominous for Oz

    This could kill rugby union in Australia

    Australia 0 Scotland 10

    They’ll be rejoicing in the highland castle of the Tuipulotu clan.
    That was uncanny! I think the ghost of Bill McLaren just entered the thread.
    It may be many years, if ever, Wales contributes to the British Lions in view of the sorry state of Welsh rugby
    They just need to import loads of Pacific islanders. Like Ireland. And Scotland
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,347
    edited July 19
    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    This is quite something. The ex-head of the UK’s Secret Intelligence Service is interviewed by CNN about “Israel, Syria and the Druze”

    He makes the crucial point that the Druze are Muslims

    https://x.com/hearnimator/status/1945790676131512454?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Only problem, the Druze are not Muslims. How come I know that - and he doesn’t? He was the head of the SIS. His job is to know basic facts like this

    We are absolutely screwed. We are led by idiots. In all regards

    It is an offshoot of the Ishmaili Muslim tradition though.
    They themselves don’t consider themselves Muslim, and as we are all about the self ID and lived experience these days then it’s really their opinion that matters.
    I must I was surprised to see @Leon in favour of self ID

    Politically they tend to be aligned with the Muslims though. It depends on the context in the interview - he would have had limited time and was possibly focused on making a more important point than explaining just how the Druze fit into the patchwork of faiths in the Levant.
    Or he’s an idiot. Given what we’ve just learned about British intel in Afghanistan, I’m going with that. He’s an idiot
    He said “the Druze are Arabs then Muslims. They are part of the network of ethnic and religious groups in Syria”. It’s not as clear as it might be, but not as simple as you are representing.

    The point he was making is that it is the Israeli government is probably lying - it is unlikely that they are intervening because they are concerned about the Druze (as an Arab, Muslim heritage group) - and far more likely that they are trying to create a divided and weak Syria by supporting one specific sub-group

    That’s an important point that you seem to have missed. And pretty astute. A moron would get distracted by the tiny detail rather than focus on what matters.
    They are not Muslims. He said they are Muslims

    It’s pretty basic stuff. It’s like me saying you’re an upper class twit when you’re lower middle class, as you’ve told us
    That’s NOT what he said. I took the trouble to quote his words. He said they are Arabs, and distinguished that status from the Muslim classification (“then Muslims”). “Then Muslims” is not the same as “are Muslims”.

    He was talking about the hierarchy of identities.

    Druze are culturally closer to being Muslim than they are to being Jewish.

    He was being very precise in his language, although it could have been been clearer for the non expert listener.

    What do you think the probability is of a militantly nationalistic Jewish state supporting the Druze because they sympathise with them?

    That’s the point he was making: that Israel is looking to turn Syria into another Somalia - something which is absolutely contrary to British policy and interests.
    I note that in the Lebanese Parliament, which Elects its MPs as half representing the "Christian" communities, and half representing the "Muslim" communities, the Druze are included in the Muslim half - and that it is reasonable to read hat across. As per Article 24 of the Lebanese Constitution. So I'm inclined to think that the interviewee was on fairly firm ground, and @Leon is a little fixated on a technical-sounding detail - Bart style :wink: .

    There are 18 officially recognized religious groups: five Muslim groups (Shia, Sunni, Druze, Alawite, and Ismaili), 12 Christian groups (Maronite, Greek Orthodox, Greek Catholic, Armenian Catholic, Armenian Orthodox, Syriac Orthodox, Syriac Catholic, Assyrian, Chaldean, Copt, evangelical Protestant, and Roman Catholic), and Jews. Religious groups not recognized by the government include Baha’is, Buddhists, Hindus, several Protestant groups, and the Church of Jesus Christ.
    https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-report-on-international-religious-freedom/lebanon
    So Anglicans not recognised as Christian then by Lebanon unless they are evangelical Protestants
    "Evangelical" means Lutherans, and under the Porvoo declaration that includes Anglicans. It does not mean the megachurches of the US with their unpleasant snake oil salesmen, unless they are legally affiliated to a recognised church.
    I don't think that holds in Lebanon as a summary of the whole evangelical community :smile:, but I'm not pursuing it here.

    If it helps, the Lebanese constitution was written under the major influence of the French in the 1920s.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Lebanon
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,043
    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    I had the idea that age shouldn’t be a factor when it comes to voting, and that a better way was to only allow those who had four GCSE’s at C or above (or whatever the equivalent is now, a number?). The downsides would be that it rules out those who are clever but not academically minded, and immigrants who didn’t go to school here , although going to night school or learning at home in order to get the vote might improve assimilation

    Sure. As long as the people who don't get to vote don't get to pay taxes. ;)
    Or you could turn it around the other way. If you don’t pay Income Tax or NI you don’t get to vote.
    Or just go back to 1832 on that basis and only the top 5% of property owners can vote
    I’m sure @Malmesbury would agree that restricting the franchise to the NU10K would have no disadvantages at all. No, none whatsoever.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,347

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    I had the idea that age shouldn’t be a factor when it comes to voting, and that a better way was to only allow those who had four GCSE’s at C or above (or whatever the equivalent is now, a number?). The downsides would be that it rules out those who are clever but not academically minded, and immigrants who didn’t go to school here , although going to night school or learning at home in order to get the vote might improve assimilation

    Sure. As long as the people who don't get to vote don't get to pay taxes. ;)
    Or you could turn it around the other way. If you don’t pay Income Tax or NI you don’t get to vote.
    Or just go back to 1832 on that basis and only the top 5% of property owners can vote
    I’m sure @Malmesbury would agree that restricting the franchise to the NU10K would have no disadvantages at all. No, none whatsoever.
    I had a debate with someone this week who's argument started with "I believe the wrong side won the Civil War".
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,141
    ...
    Leon said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Ominous for Oz

    This could kill rugby union in Australia

    Australia 0 Scotland 10

    They’ll be rejoicing in the highland castle of the Tuipulotu clan.
    That was uncanny! I think the ghost of Bill McLaren just entered the thread.
    It may be many years, if ever, Wales contributes to the British Lions in view of the sorry state of Welsh rugby
    They just need to import loads of Pacific islanders. Like Ireland. And Scotland
    It's not like England didn't import the Vunipola brothers from er- Pontypool!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,244
    edited July 19
    Leon said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Ominous for Oz

    This could kill rugby union in Australia

    Australia 0 Scotland 10

    They’ll be rejoicing in the highland castle of the Tuipulotu clan.
    That was uncanny! I think the ghost of Bill McLaren just entered the thread.
    It may be many years, if ever, Wales contributes to the British Lions in view of the sorry state of Welsh rugby
    They just need to import loads of Pacific islanders. Like Ireland. And Scotland
    deleted
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,136
    The Lions are literally 5 inches taller than the Wallaby Jumblatts, from pack to back
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,136

    ...

    Leon said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Ominous for Oz

    This could kill rugby union in Australia

    Australia 0 Scotland 10

    They’ll be rejoicing in the highland castle of the Tuipulotu clan.
    That was uncanny! I think the ghost of Bill McLaren just entered the thread.
    It may be many years, if ever, Wales contributes to the British Lions in view of the sorry state of Welsh rugby
    They just need to import loads of Pacific islanders. Like Ireland. And Scotland
    It's not like England didn't import the Vunipola brothers from er- Pontypool!
    I was teasing our Nat cousins

    All nations do it. NZ is appalling for poaching Fijians and Samoans etc

    I can't help feeling the ref has been told to be a little bit kind to the Aussies, because they are such underdogs and if they get wiped out 3-0 that's maybe the death knell for rugby in Oz
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,987
    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    This is quite something. The ex-head of the UK’s Secret Intelligence Service is interviewed by CNN about “Israel, Syria and the Druze”

    He makes the crucial point that the Druze are Muslims

    https://x.com/hearnimator/status/1945790676131512454?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Only problem, the Druze are not Muslims. How come I know that - and he doesn’t? He was the head of the SIS. His job is to know basic facts like this

    We are absolutely screwed. We are led by idiots. In all regards

    It is an offshoot of the Ishmaili Muslim tradition though.
    They themselves don’t consider themselves Muslim, and as we are all about the self ID and lived experience these days then it’s really their opinion that matters.
    I must I was surprised to see @Leon in favour of self ID

    Politically they tend to be aligned with the Muslims though. It depends on the context in the interview - he would have had limited time and was possibly focused on making a more important point than explaining just how the Druze fit into the patchwork of faiths in the Levant.
    Or he’s an idiot. Given what we’ve just learned about British intel in Afghanistan, I’m going with that. He’s an idiot
    He said “the Druze are Arabs then Muslims. They are part of the network of ethnic and religious groups in Syria”. It’s not as clear as it might be, but not as simple as you are representing.

    The point he was making is that it is the Israeli government is probably lying - it is unlikely that they are intervening because they are concerned about the Druze (as an Arab, Muslim heritage group) - and far more likely that they are trying to create a divided and weak Syria by supporting one specific sub-group

    That’s an important point that you seem to have missed. And pretty astute. A moron would get distracted by the tiny detail rather than focus on what matters.
    They are not Muslims. He said they are Muslims

    It’s pretty basic stuff. It’s like me saying you’re an upper class twit when you’re lower middle class, as you’ve told us
    That’s NOT what he said. I took the trouble to quote his words. He said they are Arabs, and distinguished that status from the Muslim classification (“then Muslims”). “Then Muslims” is not the same as “are Muslims”.

    He was talking about the hierarchy of identities.

    Druze are culturally closer to being Muslim than they are to being Jewish.

    He was being very precise in his language, although it could have been been clearer for the non expert listener.

    What do you think the probability is of a militantly nationalistic Jewish state supporting the Druze because they sympathise with them?

    That’s the point he was making: that Israel is looking to turn Syria into another Somalia - something which is absolutely contrary to British policy and interests.
    I note that in the Lebanese Parliament, which Elects its MPs as half representing the "Christian" communities, and half representing the "Muslim" communities, the Druze are included in the Muslim half - and that it is reasonable to read hat across. As per Article 24 of the Lebanese Constitution. So I'm inclined to think that the interviewee was on fairly firm ground, and @Leon is a little fixated on a technical-sounding detail - Bart style :wink: .

    There are 18 officially recognized religious groups: five Muslim groups (Shia, Sunni, Druze, Alawite, and Ismaili), 12 Christian groups (Maronite, Greek Orthodox, Greek Catholic, Armenian Catholic, Armenian Orthodox, Syriac Orthodox, Syriac Catholic, Assyrian, Chaldean, Copt, evangelical Protestant, and Roman Catholic), and Jews. Religious groups not recognized by the government include Baha’is, Buddhists, Hindus, several Protestant groups, and the Church of Jesus Christ.
    https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-report-on-international-religious-freedom/lebanon
    So Anglicans not recognised as Christian then by Lebanon unless they are evangelical Protestants
    "Evangelical" means Lutherans, and under the Porvoo declaration that includes Anglicans. It does not mean the megachurches of the US with their unpleasant snake oil salesmen, unless they are legally affiliated to a recognised church.
    Like so many theological words 'evangelical' has lots of meanings and shades. Unless one is reasonably clear what is meant by the use, the talk is only talking equivocally and about words, not about things and realities.

    BTW the word 'Protestant' does not occur in the Book of Common Prayer (1662), the King James Bible (1611), the Alternative Service Book (1980) or Common Worship (2000). I rather doubt if 'evangelical' does either.

    Anglicanism's modest claim is simply to be a small and episcopal part of the universal (catholic) church.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,715
    edited July 19

    Ted Heath played hunger games with his No 10 team

    Keir Starmer may be lacking in man-management skills, but he’s not the worst PM in that department. The clear winner is Ted Heath, who was sulky to his enemies and inconsiderate to his allies. The former Tory chairman Chris Patten wrote speeches for Heath and tells the Rosebud podcast that he was once summoned on a Saturday morning to Heath’s hotel suite and made to wait for 90 minutes before a kimono-wearing leader let him in, without the offer of a cup of coffee.

    Heath’s housekeeper brought in a tray of Chablis, lobster and cheese. “Our eyes were out on stilts because we were absolutely starving,” Patten says. Heath suddenly asked the team if they’d had anything to eat and, when they said no, replied “Oh, you must be very hungry”. He then returned to his meal without a second thought. Patten found this particularly ironic as Heath was asking them to write about “care and compassion”.

    Downing Street may attract many with the offer of power, but it is rarely a happy place to work. JoJo Penn, who as Theresa May’s deputy chief of staff had a rougher time than most, tells The Rundown podcast that she was given fair warning by Oliver Dowden, who had been her predecessor in David Cameron’s No 10. “It’s not a job to enjoy,” Dowden told her. “It’s a job to look back on.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ted-heath-hunger-games-mps-qmsnmrbqm

    Sir John Colville, Churchill's private secretary, gives an excellent four-page description of working for him in his famous diary. An extract covering the same points as the above about Heath runs as follows::

    "...HIs anger was like lightning and sometimes terrifying to see ... He could be violently offensive to those who worked for him and ... would never say he was sorry ... He was not easy to work for, particularly during the anxious days of the war. Patience is a virtue with which he was totally unfamiliar. As soon as he ordered sometime to be done he expected that it would be completed ... He thought nothing of keeping the Cabinet in their seats until, for them, all hope of getting any food had passed, because he himself had only to walk upstairs to lunch or dinner ..."

    It's perhaps the best political diary I've ever read (incidentally kept covertly and completely illegally), and, like most diaries, a very easy read.

    Anyway, my point is, being a terrible man manager isn't peculiar to crap leaders like Starmer or Heath.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,789
    edited July 19
    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    I had the idea that age shouldn’t be a factor when it comes to voting, and that a better way was to only allow those who had four GCSE’s at C or above (or whatever the equivalent is now, a number?). The downsides would be that it rules out those who are clever but not academically minded, and immigrants who didn’t go to school here , although going to night school or learning at home in order to get the vote might improve assimilation

    Sure. As long as the people who don't get to vote don't get to pay taxes. ;)
    Or you could turn it around the other way. If you don’t pay Income Tax or NI you don’t get to vote.
    Or just go back to 1832 on that basis and only the top 5% of property owners can vote
    I’m sure @Malmesbury would agree that restricting the franchise to the NU10K would have no disadvantages at all. No, none whatsoever.
    I had a debate with someone this week who's argument started with "I believe the wrong side won the Civil War".
    It may well have done. The constitutional monarchy was restored within a generation.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,352
    edited July 19
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ominous for Oz

    This could kill rugby union in Australia

    Australia 0 Scotland 10

    They’ll be rejoicing in the highland castle of the Tuipulotu clan.
    This could/should be an almighty win for the Lions

    I wonder if this is the last ever Lions tour to Oz
    Not particularly good for the anachronistic Lions not to have competitive opponents. Perhaps they need to strategically drop a match.

    Edit: the power of PB!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,136
    Leon said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Ominous for Oz

    This could kill rugby union in Australia

    Australia 0 Scotland 10

    They’ll be rejoicing in the highland castle of the Tuipulotu clan.
    That was uncanny! I think the ghost of Bill McLaren just entered the thread.
    It may be many years, if ever, Wales contributes to the British Lions in view of the sorry state of Welsh rugby
    They just need to import loads of Pacific islanders. Like Ireland. And Scotland
    It's not like England didn't import the Vunipola brothers from er- Pontypool!
    I was teasing our Nat cousins

    All nations do it. NZ is appalling for poaching Fijians and Samoans etc

    I can't help feeling the ref has been told to be a little bit kind to the Aussies, because they are such underdogs and if they get wiped out 3-0 that's maybe the death knell for rugby in Oz
    Edit: rugby UNION
  • isamisam Posts: 42,219
    Stereodog said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    The weird thing here - is that there would be a lot of possible votes from those white people forced to live in HMOs because of their low income and lack of opportunities - but they seem to be 100% focussed on illegal immigrants.
    HMOs can be very diverse places. I saw a TV programme about one that had a white student, posh black guy and a well spoken woman. I seem to remember it was exposing the damp issues.
    My God!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,141
    edited July 19

    Leon said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Ominous for Oz

    This could kill rugby union in Australia

    Australia 0 Scotland 10

    They’ll be rejoicing in the highland castle of the Tuipulotu clan.
    That was uncanny! I think the ghost of Bill McLaren just entered the thread.
    It may be many years, if ever, Wales contributes to the British Lions in view of the sorry state of Welsh rugby
    They just need to import loads of Pacific islanders. Like Ireland. And Scotland
    deleted
    I read your linked article and it was a fair assessment. I suspect the key to Wales punching above their weight for a century or more in international rugby was down to almost all secondary schools playing rugby rather than football. Although we have a great schools league here in Wales it is essentially the bigger public schools like Christ College Brecon, Llandovery College and Monmouth School it also features the rugby academies like Whitchurch and Cowbridge plus a few of the more exclusive comps in the West Glamorgan and East Carmarthenshire areas, all the kids want to be Mo Salah rather than Phil Bennett or Jiffy these days.

    Oh and the regions are pants!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,275

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    She is absolutely no loss to the conservatives

    Indeed any conservatives of a like mind should also join Reform
    I get a bad vibe off her. If the hard right do manage to break through I can see her being very prominent.

    Everything's gone tiny btw.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,987

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    I had the idea that age shouldn’t be a factor when it comes to voting, and that a better way was to only allow those who had four GCSE’s at C or above (or whatever the equivalent is now, a number?). The downsides would be that it rules out those who are clever but not academically minded, and immigrants who didn’t go to school here , although going to night school or learning at home in order to get the vote might improve assimilation

    Sure. As long as the people who don't get to vote don't get to pay taxes. ;)
    Or you could turn it around the other way. If you don’t pay Income Tax or NI you don’t get to vote.
    Or just go back to 1832 on that basis and only the top 5% of property owners can vote
    I’m sure @Malmesbury would agree that restricting the franchise to the NU10K would have no disadvantages at all. No, none whatsoever.
    I had a debate with someone this week who's argument started with "I believe the wrong side won the Civil War".
    It may well have done. The constitutional monarchy was restored within a generation.
    Both sides won the Civil War in 1688-1690. That result has never been revisited in England, and it would be a very good idea to keep it that way.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,053
    They’re not taking that one away!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,211
    edited July 19

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    I had the idea that age shouldn’t be a factor when it comes to voting, and that a better way was to only allow those who had four GCSE’s at C or above (or whatever the equivalent is now, a number?). The downsides would be that it rules out those who are clever but not academically minded, and immigrants who didn’t go to school here , although going to night school or learning at home in order to get the vote might improve assimilation

    Sure. As long as the people who don't get to vote don't get to pay taxes. ;)
    Or you could turn it around the other way. If you don’t pay Income Tax or NI you don’t get to vote.
    Or just go back to 1832 on that basis and only the top 5% of property owners can vote
    I’m sure @Malmesbury would agree that restricting the franchise to the NU10K would have no disadvantages at all. No, none whatsoever.
    I had a debate with someone this week who's argument started with "I believe the wrong side won the Civil War".
    It may well have done. The constitutional monarchy was restored within a generation.
    Though with much reduced power, with no question of the Monarch having Divine Right etc. Hence the Stuarts being chucked out in 1688. A typical British compromise.

    Though possibly the comment was a about a different Civil War. One about slavery possibly.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,141
    isam said:

    Stereodog said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    The weird thing here - is that there would be a lot of possible votes from those white people forced to live in HMOs because of their low income and lack of opportunities - but they seem to be 100% focussed on illegal immigrants.
    HMOs can be very diverse places. I saw a TV programme about one that had a white student, posh black guy and a well spoken woman. I seem to remember it was exposing the damp issues.
    My God!
    Do you remember that documentary too? In real life the black student became chief of police somewhere in the Caribbean.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,347

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    I had the idea that age shouldn’t be a factor when it comes to voting, and that a better way was to only allow those who had four GCSE’s at C or above (or whatever the equivalent is now, a number?). The downsides would be that it rules out those who are clever but not academically minded, and immigrants who didn’t go to school here , although going to night school or learning at home in order to get the vote might improve assimilation

    Sure. As long as the people who don't get to vote don't get to pay taxes. ;)
    Or you could turn it around the other way. If you don’t pay Income Tax or NI you don’t get to vote.
    Or just go back to 1832 on that basis and only the top 5% of property owners can vote
    I’m sure @Malmesbury would agree that restricting the franchise to the NU10K would have no disadvantages at all. No, none whatsoever.
    I had a debate with someone this week who's argument started with "I believe the wrong side won the Civil War".
    It may well have done. The constitutional monarchy was restored within a generation.
    He did not explain whether his "victory" was in 1649 or 1660.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,826
    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,727

    ydoethur said:

    Trump seems to have lost what little mind he still possessed.

    Trump sues Murdoch and Wall Street Journal over Epstein article
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c23g5xpggzmo

    Even in the vanishingly unlikely event that he wins, the amount of dirty laundry that will be aired about him is going to be enormously embarrassing.

    I suppose the question is whether his base will actually care. Very probably not given they're all even more delusional than he is, but if even just a few of them do that has alarming implications for the Republicans in the mid-terms.

    Do you believe we could be at peak jeapardy with Trump? The net is undoubtedly closing in around him. Does he figuratively come out shooting with all guns blazing? I think he has started with the firing of Maurene Comey and the sacking of Stephen Colbert by NBC.
    Not yet, but a little more interest in what JD Vance is actually like might be worthwhile. He's clearly more literate than Trump, and probably more subtle. Is he more or less extreme, and oin what ways?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,347
    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    She is absolutely no loss to the conservatives

    Indeed any conservatives of a like mind should also join Reform
    I get a bad vibe off her. If the hard right do manage to break through I can see her being very prominent.

    Everything's gone tiny btw.
    If I had to reach for an early comparison it would perhaps be Anne Widdecombe without the redeeming features. They seem to have not picked up the best of the blues.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,141

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,826

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,826
    Also it is lashing it down.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,141

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,826

    Help.

    I’m in central London and my Uber Lux has been surrounded SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine.

    In the interests of safety you could always decamp at Leon's gaff.
    But I’m meeting JohnO!

    Then again he’s been delayed at Waterloo.
    Please yourself, but I doubt you will find any SWP Palestine Action protestors anywhere near Leon.
    I haven’t been this scared since 2006 when my friend asked me to take her shopping at Aldi.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,136

    Also it is lashing it down.

    The rain is Wagnerian

    Avoid public transport, apparently it has all stopped
  • eekeek Posts: 30,713

    Also it is lashing it down.

    So you've found the deducted SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine. Probably a far smaller group than other weeks.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,347
    Leon said:

    Also it is lashing it down.

    The rain is Wagnerian

    Avoid public transport, apparently it has all stopped
    LONDON SAVED FROM HOSEPIPE BAN !!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,043
    eek said:

    Also it is lashing it down.

    So you've found the deducted SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine. Probably a far smaller group than other weeks.
    On the bright side, you’re in a dry Uber. The protesters are getting soaked.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,826

    eek said:

    Also it is lashing it down.

    So you've found the deducted SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine. Probably a far smaller group than other weeks.
    On the bright side, you’re in a dry Uber. The protesters are getting soaked.
    It was a brand new 7 Series BMW, the soap dodgers saw me as some out of touch elitist.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,053
    Not a bad start to the second half.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,352
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    I had the idea that age shouldn’t be a factor when it comes to voting, and that a better way was to only allow those who had four GCSE’s at C or above (or whatever the equivalent is now, a number?). The downsides would be that it rules out those who are clever but not academically minded, and immigrants who didn’t go to school here , although going to night school or learning at home in order to get the vote might improve assimilation

    Sure. As long as the people who don't get to vote don't get to pay taxes. ;)
    Or you could turn it around the other way. If you don’t pay Income Tax or NI you don’t get to vote.
    Or just go back to 1832 on that basis and only the top 5% of property owners can vote
    I’m sure @Malmesbury would agree that restricting the franchise to the NU10K would have no disadvantages at all. No, none whatsoever.
    I had a debate with someone this week who's argument started with "I believe the wrong side won the Civil War".
    It may well have done. The constitutional monarchy was restored within a generation.
    He did not explain whether his "victory" was in 1649 or 1660.
    For many internet dipshits, the wrong side won the Civil War in 1865.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,108
    edited July 19

    For all those on here saying 16 and 17 year olds should not be allowed to vote because they do not possess the capacity to discern lies from facts can I throw a word into the pot? Brexit.

    If lacking clarity and possessing an inability to assimilate facts from lies should deny a franchise, can I remind you all of those people who voted to leave the European Union due to their inability to assimilate facts from lies?

    My conclusion? If 16 and 17 year olds are not up to the cognitive requirement for voting, should "Leave" voters also be removed from the electoral roll?

    "People who disagree with me shouldn't get to vote" isn't necessarily the most compelling of democratic arguments.

    For age, a line has to be drawn somewhere. The only disagreement is where.
    Well yes that too.

    But if the argument is if voters are incapable of making rational decisions I say fair enough. I also say voters voting to impose economic sanctions on themselves are incapable of making rational decisions, so should they be allowed to vote?
    Actually it's worse than you thought. Some people actually voted for Labour, and if reports are to be believed, were under the impression that doing so would improve the country. How such educationally subnormal individuals managed firstly to get themselves to a polling station, and secondly make a passable daub on the polling slip remains a mystery, but it is clearly an abuse of the afflicted that we must prevent happening again at all costs.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,271
    Potentially not good; loads of smoke coming out from Zaporizhzhia NPP.

    https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1946524406609527169
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,108
    edited July 19
    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    She is absolutely no loss to the conservatives

    Indeed any conservatives of a like mind should also join Reform
    I get a bad vibe off her. If the hard right do manage to break through I can see her being very prominent.

    Everything's gone tiny btw.
    If I had to reach for an early comparison it would perhaps be Anne Widdecombe without the redeeming features. They seem to have not picked up the best of the blues.
    It certainly doesn't bode well for her that she's already managed to lose the Kinabula vote AND the MattW vote in such a comparatively short space of time. Let's just hope she does nothing to jeopardise the Bondegoozoo vote or it really will be all up for Reform.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,108
    Leon said:

    Also it is lashing it down.

    The rain is Wagnerian

    Avoid public transport, apparently it has all stopped
    Wrong sort of rain?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,159
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    "local churchwarden"

    lol
    Remember that minor hooh-hah that Kemi Badenoch caused when she said that Liberal Democrat candidates were often somebody who is good at fixing their church roof. And … the people in the community like them. People like and trust churchwardens. They represent the pillar-of-the-community virtue that most of us would like to have, but are a bit too lazy to exercise. Sometimes too virtuous, too trusting, I'll save you time by saying naive and wet.

    You can (and will) lol all you like. But one of the risks for Reform is the perception that they are bad people who most people don't want to be like. And in electoral politics, that matters.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,136

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    "local churchwarden"

    lol
    Remember that minor hooh-hah that Kemi Badenoch caused when she said that Liberal Democrat candidates were often somebody who is good at fixing their church roof. And … the people in the community like them. People like and trust churchwardens. They represent the pillar-of-the-community virtue that most of us would like to have, but are a bit too lazy to exercise. Sometimes too virtuous, too trusting, I'll save you time by saying naive and wet.

    You can (and will) lol all you like. But one of the risks for Reform is the perception that they are bad people who most people don't want to be like. And in electoral politics, that matters.
    lol
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,211

    eek said:

    Also it is lashing it down.

    So you've found the deducted SWP types protesting about Starmer and Palestine. Probably a far smaller group than other weeks.
    On the bright side, you’re in a dry Uber. The protesters are getting soaked.
    Probably a good thing that it's pouring down today. Constable Rain is the best tool for keeping Yaxley-Lennons mob indoors, generally in the pub.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,987
    edited July 19

    For all those on here saying 16 and 17 year olds should not be allowed to vote because they do not possess the capacity to discern lies from facts can I throw a word into the pot? Brexit.

    If lacking clarity and possessing an inability to assimilate facts from lies should deny a franchise, can I remind you all of those people who voted to leave the European Union due to their inability to assimilate facts from lies?

    My conclusion? If 16 and 17 year olds are not up to the cognitive requirement for voting, should "Leave" voters also be removed from the electoral roll?

    "People who disagree with me shouldn't get to vote" isn't necessarily the most compelling of democratic arguments.

    For age, a line has to be drawn somewhere. The only disagreement is where.
    Well yes that too.

    But if the argument is if voters are incapable of making rational decisions I say fair enough. I also say voters voting to impose economic sanctions on themselves are incapable of making rational decisions, so should they be allowed to vote?
    Actually it's worse than you thought. Some people actually voted for Labour, and if reports are to be believed, were under the impression that doing so would improve the country. How such educationally subnormal individuals managed firstly to get themselves to a polling station, and secondly make a passable daub on the polling slip remains a mystery, but it is clearly an abuse of the afflicted that we must prevent happening again at all costs.
    You disqualify Labour and those who voted for them. Perhaps you can explain which party in 2024 was able to win a majority, was clear how it was going to make the country better and what its 5-10 programme for national renewal was, whose word was capable of belief, and had a decent track record of delivery and was not morally and politically exhausted by a number of years of corrupt and inept government? The list is quite short.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,669
    One must wonder whether IDF troops get a bonus for how many Gazans they can kill. Another appalling execution of people waiting for aid. And still the west just sits there doing fxck all. Israel should be sanctioned , all trade should be stopped , including any weapons sales and leaders need to call a spade a spade . Only the most delusional can refute the evidence . A genocide is taking place and the west is complicit .
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,347
    edited July 19

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    She is absolutely no loss to the conservatives

    Indeed any conservatives of a like mind should also join Reform
    I get a bad vibe off her. If the hard right do manage to break through I can see her being very prominent.

    Everything's gone tiny btw.
    If I had to reach for an early comparison it would perhaps be Anne Widdecombe without the redeeming features. They seem to have not picked up the best of the blues.
    It certainly doesn't bode well for her that she's already managed to lose the Kinabula vote AND the MattW vote in such a comparatively short space of time. Let's just hope she does nothing to jeopardise the Bondegoozoo vote or it really will be all up for Reform.
    In her place I would be more concerned about the 120 people who live on Greenway Road, Runcorn, whom she has just insulted - minus a few if the complaints she alleges she has received are real. Her majority is 6, as we know.

    As I say, I think Lee Anderson could weather that in Ashfield. I think Pochin will find it a little more difficult; I don't see her as another Mark Carlisle, who held the more suburban/rural Runcorn seat long term for the Tories.

    We will see.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,136
    These reviews are stupid: it cuts both ways. Just go with the ref's initial decision unless there are really obvious errors or fouls
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 380
    nico67 said:

    One must wonder whether IDF troops get a bonus for how many Gazans they can kill. Another appalling execution of people waiting for aid. And still the west just sits there doing fxck all. Israel should be sanctioned , all trade should be stopped , including any weapons sales and leaders need to call a spade a spade . Only the most delusional can refute the evidence . A genocide is taking place and the west is complicit .

    Sauce?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,053
    What’s sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander. Aussies denied a try for exactly the same silly ‘offence’ as the Lions were.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,136
    Sandpit said:

    What’s sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander. Aussies denied a try for exactly the same silly ‘offence’ as the Lions were.

    It's bad for the game

    Should have given both tries, and gone with the initial decision
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,113

    nico67 said:

    One must wonder whether IDF troops get a bonus for how many Gazans they can kill. Another appalling execution of people waiting for aid. And still the west just sits there doing fxck all. Israel should be sanctioned , all trade should be stopped , including any weapons sales and leaders need to call a spade a spade . Only the most delusional can refute the evidence . A genocide is taking place and the west is complicit .

    Sauce?
    73,610 dead.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,053
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    What’s sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander. Aussies denied a try for exactly the same silly ‘offence’ as the Lions were.

    It's bad for the game

    Should have given both tries, and gone with the initial decision
    Yes they were both good. Watching 100 slow-mo replays doesn’t help the game.

    TMO is supposed to be for egregious errors or something the ref missed completely, not for micro-analysis of every play.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 380

    nico67 said:

    One must wonder whether IDF troops get a bonus for how many Gazans they can kill. Another appalling execution of people waiting for aid. And still the west just sits there doing fxck all. Israel should be sanctioned , all trade should be stopped , including any weapons sales and leaders need to call a spade a spade . Only the most delusional can refute the evidence . A genocide is taking place and the west is complicit .

    Sauce?
    73,610 dead.
    Who's figures are those and how many are Hamas combatants? The fact that we don't even distinguish between Hamas/civilian casualties in this war exemplifies the poverty of debate going on.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,232
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    "local churchwarden"

    lol
    Remember that minor hooh-hah that Kemi Badenoch caused when she said that Liberal Democrat candidates were often somebody who is good at fixing their church roof. And … the people in the community like them. People like and trust churchwardens. They represent the pillar-of-the-community virtue that most of us would like to have, but are a bit too lazy to exercise. Sometimes too virtuous, too trusting, I'll save you time by saying naive and wet.

    You can (and will) lol all you like. But one of the risks for Reform is the perception that they are bad people who most people don't want to be like. And in electoral politics, that matters.
    lol
    The lol is correct.

    Politics has changed so so much in the last decade. Not least because the quality of our discourse has deteriorated so much.

    The airwar is now 95% of the battle. Individual candidates, outside of by elections, are only likely to make a couple of % point difference except in the oddest of seats (i.e. Corbz).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,136
    edited July 19
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    What’s sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander. Aussies denied a try for exactly the same silly ‘offence’ as the Lions were.

    It's bad for the game

    Should have given both tries, and gone with the initial decision
    Yes they were both good. Watching 100 slow-mo replays doesn’t help the game.

    TMO is supposed to be for egregious errors or something the ref missed completely, not for micro-analysis of every play.
    Exactly right

    The Lions try in particular was excellent and skilul, and in the spirit of the game was a really good try

    Rugby is so complex it - frankly - relies on the ref ignoring a few modest infringements to keep the game fluid. You can probably spot some tiny foul play in 50% of tries if you look hard enough
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,113
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Also it is lashing it down.

    The rain is Wagnerian

    Avoid public transport, apparently it has all stopped
    LONDON SAVED FROM HOSEPIPE BAN !!
    Greetings from the east London 'burbs.

    Tipped it down for a couple of hours earlier this morning, then stopped, then we got hit with a really heavy rain shower just now, but stopped again. Anyway, Mum's garden at least got a good watering.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,219
    Mortimer said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    "local churchwarden"

    lol
    Remember that minor hooh-hah that Kemi Badenoch caused when she said that Liberal Democrat candidates were often somebody who is good at fixing their church roof. And … the people in the community like them. People like and trust churchwardens. They represent the pillar-of-the-community virtue that most of us would like to have, but are a bit too lazy to exercise. Sometimes too virtuous, too trusting, I'll save you time by saying naive and wet.

    You can (and will) lol all you like. But one of the risks for Reform is the perception that they are bad people who most people don't want to be like. And in electoral politics, that matters.
    lol
    The lol is correct.

    Politics has changed so so much in the last decade. Not least because the quality of our discourse has deteriorated so much.

    The airwar is now 95% of the battle. Individual candidates, outside of by elections, are only likely to make a couple of % point difference except in the oddest of seats (i.e. Corbz).
    Hence McMurdock being elected for Reform in Basildon. Reform voters are generally voting for Farage or against the establishment, not for individual candidates, though a bad incumbent Reform MP would be an exception.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,352

    nico67 said:

    One must wonder whether IDF troops get a bonus for how many Gazans they can kill. Another appalling execution of people waiting for aid. And still the west just sits there doing fxck all. Israel should be sanctioned , all trade should be stopped , including any weapons sales and leaders need to call a spade a spade . Only the most delusional can refute the evidence . A genocide is taking place and the west is complicit .

    Sauce?
    73,610 dead.
    Who's figures are those and how many are Hamas combatants? The fact that we don't even distinguish between Hamas/civilian casualties in this war exemplifies the poverty of debate going on.
    If only we knew who started not distinguishing between Hamas and civilian casualties.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,053
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    What’s sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander. Aussies denied a try for exactly the same silly ‘offence’ as the Lions were.

    It's bad for the game

    Should have given both tries, and gone with the initial decision
    Yes they were both good. Watching 100 slow-mo replays doesn’t help the game.

    TMO is supposed to be for egregious errors or something the ref missed completely, not for micro-analysis of every play.
    Exactly right

    The Lions try in particular was excellent and skilul, and in the spirit of the game was a really good try

    Rugby is so complex it - frankly - relies on the ref ignoring a few modest infringements to keep the game fluid. You can probably spot some tiny foul play in 50% of tries if you look hard enough
    Yes, if the player’s continually moving it’s fair to let them keep possession of the ball, if they’re stationary on the ground then they should release it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,113

    nico67 said:

    One must wonder whether IDF troops get a bonus for how many Gazans they can kill. Another appalling execution of people waiting for aid. And still the west just sits there doing fxck all. Israel should be sanctioned , all trade should be stopped , including any weapons sales and leaders need to call a spade a spade . Only the most delusional can refute the evidence . A genocide is taking place and the west is complicit .

    Sauce?
    73,610 dead.
    Who's figures are those and how many are Hamas combatants? The fact that we don't even distinguish between Hamas/civilian casualties in this war exemplifies the poverty of debate going on.
    73,601 is roughly NINE Srebrenicas or 216 Lidices.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,669

    nico67 said:

    One must wonder whether IDF troops get a bonus for how many Gazans they can kill. Another appalling execution of people waiting for aid. And still the west just sits there doing fxck all. Israel should be sanctioned , all trade should be stopped , including any weapons sales and leaders need to call a spade a spade . Only the most delusional can refute the evidence . A genocide is taking place and the west is complicit .

    Sauce?
    73,610 dead.
    Who's figures are those and how many are Hamas combatants? The fact that we don't even distinguish between Hamas/civilian casualties in this war exemplifies the poverty of debate going on.
    It’s clear from the devastation that many non Hamas have been killed . It’s also obvious by the daily executions of starving people that the IDF are out of control .
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,136
    Poor second half from the Lions. Totally dominant, bigger pack, really lost focus
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 380

    nico67 said:

    One must wonder whether IDF troops get a bonus for how many Gazans they can kill. Another appalling execution of people waiting for aid. And still the west just sits there doing fxck all. Israel should be sanctioned , all trade should be stopped , including any weapons sales and leaders need to call a spade a spade . Only the most delusional can refute the evidence . A genocide is taking place and the west is complicit .

    Sauce?
    73,610 dead.
    Who's figures are those and how many are Hamas combatants? The fact that we don't even distinguish between Hamas/civilian casualties in this war exemplifies the poverty of debate going on.
    If only we knew who started not distinguishing between Hamas and civilian casualties.
    That would be Hamas themselves. They control the authorities in Gaza and the numbers they provide. Civilian casualties of course matter not a jot to them. They've built a network of tunnels bigger than the London Underground that the civilian population are not allowed to access. So they are very good at distinguishing between the two when it matters to them.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,108
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    She is absolutely no loss to the conservatives

    Indeed any conservatives of a like mind should also join Reform
    I get a bad vibe off her. If the hard right do manage to break through I can see her being very prominent.

    Everything's gone tiny btw.
    If I had to reach for an early comparison it would perhaps be Anne Widdecombe without the redeeming features. They seem to have not picked up the best of the blues.
    It certainly doesn't bode well for her that she's already managed to lose the Kinabula vote AND the MattW vote in such a comparatively short space of time. Let's just hope she does nothing to jeopardise the Bondegoozoo vote or it really will be all up for Reform.
    In her place I would be more concerned about the 120 people who live on Greenway Road, Runcorn, whom she has just insulted - minus a few if the complaints she alleges she has received are real. Her majority is 6, as we know.

    As I say, I think Lee Anderson could weather that in Ashfield. I think Pochin will find it a little more difficult; I don't see her as another Mark Carlisle, who held the more suburban/rural Runcorn seat long term for the Tories.

    We will see.
    I am not sure from your post that she is 'weathering' an awful lot. The plod, the Church of England, and some probable Labour voters? I'd be more worried for her if those organisations were purring their support. You shouldn't kid yourself.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,136
    Poor match ends weakly
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,212
    Anthony Wells of UKPR on polling for hypothetical parties

    https://bsky.app/profile/anthonyjwells.bsky.social/post/3ltyofplrus2p
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,053
    27-19 loss a generous score for the hosts, who were nowhere for the first 3/4 of the match.

    Lions need to make sure they don’t let a good lead slide next weekend.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,159
    isam said:

    Mortimer said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    "local churchwarden"

    lol
    Remember that minor hooh-hah that Kemi Badenoch caused when she said that Liberal Democrat candidates were often somebody who is good at fixing their church roof. And … the people in the community like them. People like and trust churchwardens. They represent the pillar-of-the-community virtue that most of us would like to have, but are a bit too lazy to exercise. Sometimes too virtuous, too trusting, I'll save you time by saying naive and wet.

    You can (and will) lol all you like. But one of the risks for Reform is the perception that they are bad people who most people don't want to be like. And in electoral politics, that matters.
    lol
    The lol is correct.

    Politics has changed so so much in the last decade. Not least because the quality of our discourse has deteriorated so much.

    The airwar is now 95% of the battle. Individual candidates, outside of by elections, are only likely to make a couple of % point difference except in the oddest of seats (i.e. Corbz).
    Hence McMurdock being elected for Reform in Basildon. Reform voters are generally voting for Farage or against the establishment, not for individual candidates, though a bad incumbent Reform MP would be an exception.
    The other thing that helped McMurdock was the very close votes for the big three. 30.8 percent was a very low winning percentage. Only twleve were lower in England, and that included some weird ones like SW Norfolk and Blackburn.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,136
    Not a bad prediction


    Leon Posts: 63,107
    11:02AM
    Predix:


    Australia 12, Lions 35



    Reality:


    Australia 19, Lions 27


    However the Lions weren't quite as dominant as I expected
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,352
    Leon said:

    Poor second half from the Lions. Totally dominant, bigger pack, really lost focus

    Rugby union in Oz is BACK!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,136
    edited July 19
    Sandpit said:

    27-19 loss a generous score for the hosts, who were nowhere for the first 3/4 of the match.

    Lions need to make sure they don’t let a good lead slide next weekend.

    They never really looked like losing, but that's not because the Lions were great it's because the Aussies were poor

    Need a few more Englishmen! Also where is that mad Scotsman, Van Der Merwe, is he injured? He's a superb player
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,347

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    She is absolutely no loss to the conservatives

    Indeed any conservatives of a like mind should also join Reform
    I get a bad vibe off her. If the hard right do manage to break through I can see her being very prominent.

    Everything's gone tiny btw.
    If I had to reach for an early comparison it would perhaps be Anne Widdecombe without the redeeming features. They seem to have not picked up the best of the blues.
    It certainly doesn't bode well for her that she's already managed to lose the Kinabula vote AND the MattW vote in such a comparatively short space of time. Let's just hope she does nothing to jeopardise the Bondegoozoo vote or it really will be all up for Reform.
    In her place I would be more concerned about the 120 people who live on Greenway Road, Runcorn, whom she has just insulted - minus a few if the complaints she alleges she has received are real. Her majority is 6, as we know.

    As I say, I think Lee Anderson could weather that in Ashfield. I think Pochin will find it a little more difficult; I don't see her as another Mark Carlisle, who held the more suburban/rural Runcorn seat long term for the Tories.

    We will see.
    I am not sure from your post that she is 'weathering' an awful lot. The plod, the Church of England, and some probable Labour voters? I'd be more worried for her if those organisations were purring their support. You shouldn't kid yourself.
    It's not "The Church of England"; it's the Churchwarden who is the elected representative of the local church congregation on that road for managing the practicalities of the parish.

    As I say, we'll see,

    I'd put her maybe evens for doing a chicken run next time round. She's playing to the Reform Gallery, not to her constituents.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 380
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    One must wonder whether IDF troops get a bonus for how many Gazans they can kill. Another appalling execution of people waiting for aid. And still the west just sits there doing fxck all. Israel should be sanctioned , all trade should be stopped , including any weapons sales and leaders need to call a spade a spade . Only the most delusional can refute the evidence . A genocide is taking place and the west is complicit .

    Sauce?
    73,610 dead.
    Who's figures are those and how many are Hamas combatants? The fact that we don't even distinguish between Hamas/civilian casualties in this war exemplifies the poverty of debate going on.
    It’s clear from the devastation that many non Hamas have been killed . It’s also obvious by the daily executions of starving people that the IDF are out of control .
    War is hell. I would never doubt that. And of course there are going to be many civilian casualties in urban combat. As for 'daily executions of starving people' I presume that relates to the supposed mass killings at the aid distribution sites, almost none of which are verified. An alternative source of information would be Colonel Richard Kemp, who's been on the ground in Gaza and thinks it's working well. Is he a liar? Well he could be but why should I be more inclined to doubt him than believe the claims of mass numbers of people being gunned down? Not least when there are all sorts of entities interested in seeing the US/Israel aid system fail, from Hamas themselves to the mountain of UN backed NGOs and charities who ought to be facing far more scrutiny than they have done.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,749

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    I had the idea that age shouldn’t be a factor when it comes to voting, and that a better way was to only allow those who had four GCSE’s at C or above (or whatever the equivalent is now, a number?). The downsides would be that it rules out those who are clever but not academically minded, and immigrants who didn’t go to school here , although going to night school or learning at home in order to get the vote might improve assimilation

    Sure. As long as the people who don't get to vote don't get to pay taxes. ;)
    Or you could turn it around the other way. If you don’t pay Income Tax or NI you don’t get to vote.
    Or just go back to 1832 on that basis and only the top 5% of property owners can vote
    I’m sure @Malmesbury would agree that restricting the franchise to the NU10K would have no disadvantages at all. No, none whatsoever.
    I had a debate with someone this week who's argument started with "I believe the wrong side won the Civil War".
    It may well have done. The constitutional monarchy was restored within a generation.
    On the @NU10K and restricting the franchise to just them. It’s already happened.

    Why do you think Starmer is in office, but not in power? It’s only partly his uselessness. The Process State cruises on sublimely. The wheel is jammed in position with a zillion tons of paper stacked around it. No changing course.

    Starmer and co are reduced to organising afternoon games on the quarterdeck.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,789
    edited July 19
    MI5 spies are quitting for better pay and work-life balance
    https://inews.co.uk/news/mi5-spies-quitting-better-pay-work-life-balance-3811639

    ETA in unrelated news:-

    Putin’s spies have infiltrated every section of British society
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/19/putins-spies-have-infiltrated-every-section-of-britain/ (£££)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,347
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    She is absolutely no loss to the conservatives

    Indeed any conservatives of a like mind should also join Reform
    I get a bad vibe off her. If the hard right do manage to break through I can see her being very prominent.

    Everything's gone tiny btw.
    If I had to reach for an early comparison it would perhaps be Anne Widdecombe without the redeeming features. They seem to have not picked up the best of the blues.
    It certainly doesn't bode well for her that she's already managed to lose the Kinabula vote AND the MattW vote in such a comparatively short space of time. Let's just hope she does nothing to jeopardise the Bondegoozoo vote or it really will be all up for Reform.
    In her place I would be more concerned about the 120 people who live on Greenway Road, Runcorn, whom she has just insulted - minus a few if the complaints she alleges she has received are real. Her majority is 6, as we know.

    As I say, I think Lee Anderson could weather that in Ashfield. I think Pochin will find it a little more difficult; I don't see her as another Mark Carlisle, who held the more suburban/rural Runcorn seat long term for the Tories.

    We will see.
    I am not sure from your post that she is 'weathering' an awful lot. The plod, the Church of England, and some probable Labour voters? I'd be more worried for her if those organisations were purring their support. You shouldn't kid yourself.
    It's not "The Church of England"; it's the Churchwarden who is the elected representative of the local church congregation on that road for managing the practicalities of the parish.

    As I say, we'll see,

    I'd put her maybe evens for doing a chicken run next time round. She's playing to the Reform Gallery, not to her constituents.
    What do you make Pochin's odds of winning Runcorn & Helsby in 2028, or whenever the next election takes place?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,794

    MI5 spies are quitting for better pay and work-life balance
    https://inews.co.uk/news/mi5-spies-quitting-better-pay-work-life-balance-3811639

    Britain, 2025.

    Snowflake 007....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,211
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    kinabalu said:

    MattW said:

    Sarah Pochin MP seems a little accident prone.

    After the "Women in Burkas are a security threat to the UK", earlier this week she put out a video about "Violence and crime in Greenway Road, Runcorn?"
    I recently spoke with business owners and residents on Greenway Road. Yet another example of HMOs packed with illegal immigrants.

    Locals are fed up with anti-social behaviour, criminal activity, and the sheer disruption these properties are causing. It’s making people’s lives a misery...

    https://x.com/SarahForRuncorn/status/1944277520129695868

    Now we have "B*ll*cks, lady" coming in from several directions in the local community:

    1 - Residents of 30-40 years' standing saying "Nope".
    2 - A group of about 35 locals putting out a joint photograph to say it's not like that, it's clean and peaceful and a lovely place to be.
    3 - Local churchwarden of the parish church on the street, teaching assistant, pointing out that local HMOs are "mainly White British", writing an open letter of refutation on behalf of the community. It takes quite a lot to get them involved.
    4 - Local Police PCC saying 'we have no regular such reports, nor do residents report such a concern". Local Chiref Inspector says it is a safe place.
    https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25320701.residents-hit-back-mp-claims-street-blighted-crime/

    Pochin has doubled down, and attacked most of them.

    I think she's queering her pitch (or patch), and that coming out with this kind of stuff is not going to help her at the next Election. I can see it perhaps working for Lee Anderson in Ashfield, because he is a real local who has been here nearly as long as I have had links and would have gone and found out before having his rant. I can't see being a bollocks-merchant working for Pochin there.

    Do Reform UK Central put out template press releases with gaps to fill in?

    She is absolutely no loss to the conservatives

    Indeed any conservatives of a like mind should also join Reform
    I get a bad vibe off her. If the hard right do manage to break through I can see her being very prominent.

    Everything's gone tiny btw.
    If I had to reach for an early comparison it would perhaps be Anne Widdecombe without the redeeming features. They seem to have not picked up the best of the blues.
    It certainly doesn't bode well for her that she's already managed to lose the Kinabula vote AND the MattW vote in such a comparatively short space of time. Let's just hope she does nothing to jeopardise the Bondegoozoo vote or it really will be all up for Reform.
    In her place I would be more concerned about the 120 people who live on Greenway Road, Runcorn, whom she has just insulted - minus a few if the complaints she alleges she has received are real. Her majority is 6, as we know.

    As I say, I think Lee Anderson could weather that in Ashfield. I think Pochin will find it a little more difficult; I don't see her as another Mark Carlisle, who held the more suburban/rural Runcorn seat long term for the Tories.

    We will see.
    I am not sure from your post that she is 'weathering' an awful lot. The plod, the Church of England, and some probable Labour voters? I'd be more worried for her if those organisations were purring their support. You shouldn't kid yourself.
    It's not "The Church of England"; it's the Churchwarden who is the elected representative of the local church congregation on that road for managing the practicalities of the parish.

    As I say, we'll see,

    I'd put her maybe evens for doing a chicken run next time round. She's playing to the Reform Gallery, not to her constituents.
    One thing that I noted in last years election was that the Reform campaign was based very much nationally, and they managed good turnout of voters even where they were invisible locally or had a mad or paper candidate. Reform voters are much more interested in the latest Facebook conspiracy theory than actual reality.

    If Pochin gets re-elected, it will purely be on the basis of whatever tosh and bile is being poured out by Internet trolls than whatever she is doing or not doing in the constituency.

    A Reform majority almost certainly means a government of 300 Pochins.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,776

    MI5 spies are quitting for better pay and work-life balance
    https://inews.co.uk/news/mi5-spies-quitting-better-pay-work-life-balance-3811639

    Britain, 2025.

    Snowflake 007....
    Ha MI5, you therefore have less than a thousand agents!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,211

    MI5 spies are quitting for better pay and work-life balance
    https://inews.co.uk/news/mi5-spies-quitting-better-pay-work-life-balance-3811639

    ETA in unrelated news:-

    Putin’s spies have infiltrated every section of British society
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/19/putins-spies-have-infiltrated-every-section-of-britain/ (£££)

    But, but, "gold plated pensions" ...
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 380
    For the alternative take on Israeli intervention in Syria, try this:

    https://x.com/RawaneOsmane/status/1946214480368816190

    It does seem strange how the mainstream reaction to Israel acting against a brutal government is to accuse them of wanting to create a failed state. Thinking of Sawers it does feel like a lot of the westsplaining towards Eastern Europe regards Russia. We think we understand these places so much better than their actual neighbours do.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,794
    edited July 19
    We all know the solution to this spies crisis, to activate PB's own Agent Postman 47....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,985
    edited July 19
    Boost for the new centrist leader of the Australian Liberals Sussan Ley in her first big electoral test since their landslide defeat in the Federal election earlier this year.

    With over two thirds of votes in in the Tasmania state election today the Liberals have retained power with 14 seats to 8 for Labor as the Labor vote goes backwards
    "Tasmania Election 2025 Results - ABC News" https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/tas/2025/results
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,749
    edited July 19

    We all know the solution to this spies crisis, to activate PB's own Agent Postman 47....

    Training video here - https://youtu.be/udQM_DbATFk?si=olZULsbR0eT8iVoZ

    Note the critical mistake
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,211
    On topic, great thread here on how the Tory press reacted to previous extensions of the franchise:

    https://bsky.app/profile/robertsaunders.bsky.social/post/3lucr7qlrqk2s

    I thought this particularly accurate:

    "There are perfectly fair arguments against votes at 16.

    But the idea young people are inherently left-wing & that enfranchising them is "vote-rigging"is absurd.

    The Tories used to have the largest youth wing in Europe. That they've given up on young voters says more about them than about the young"
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,776

    We all know the solution to this spies crisis, to activate PB's own Agent Postman 47....

    Well that would be the case, but the Russians own at least one small dog. All the postmen (our great enterprise) are therefore not likely to be available for active service.
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