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Reform or rebrand: Who is really gaining power in local government? – politicalbetting.com

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  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065
    edited June 26
    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tories could bail Starmer out, but I wonder what they'd want in return.

    Nothing. If the bill falls, the tories win (but the country loses). If the bill passes with their support, the tories win (and the country wins). The question is more which would Starmer prefer if one has to happen.
    Im not sure the country does lose if the bill falls, it means a more considered bill that actually addresses both the costs of Welfare and the needs of disabled people will be required to replace it.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,715

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tories could bail Starmer out, but I wonder what they'd want in return.

    They've already given him their demands - reduce welfare bill, more disabled into work, no tax rises in next budget. And they want it confirmed at the despatch box
    How very inspiring.

    Reform are a complete nonsense and rather obscure the picture, but surely there's some sort of thought going on somewhere on the right.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,106
    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/Peston/status/1938254102108016795

    The prime minister’s ambition to listen to his MPs who have concerns about his welfare reforms is not going to plan. One of his Downing St advisers had a meeting today with some of the rebels and resorted to shouting, according to one observer. “Some of my colleagues were in tears” said an MP. “It was completely inappropriate.”

    It honestly didn't expect this sort of thing to happen only 11 months into a new Labour government. Not good at all.
    I did, you can't govern the country on such a low vote share. Labour only got 1 in 5 voters to vote for them, pushing through any kind of controversial agenda was always going to be difficult on such razor thin margins despite the size of the majority. Their coalition is extremely brittle and Reform are already eating away at it.
    Hmm, they currently have a rebellion on benefits cuts and they are losing 3x - 4x as many voters to lefty parties than they are Reform.

    It's not their unpopularity on the right that is their mortal weakness at the moment.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,811

    carnforth said:

    "Weight loss jabs study begins after reports of pancreas issues"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ged0r1n3wo

    As a layman, it doesn't look too serious on the scale of these things. Can anyone offer an informed opinion?

    That the MHRA is looking into it actively is not a good sign for these drugs. I mean, they might conclude there's no issue, but it's not good they're looking
    Certainly bad news if those drugs mess with the pancreas, where many conditions are effectively untreatable
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,021
    edited June 26
    If Starmer really did shout at his MPs the Lab strategists should release the footage all over the socials it would do his image no end of good.

    Unless he came over weally weally angwee in which case maybe not.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065
    edited June 26
    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tories could bail Starmer out, but I wonder what they'd want in return.

    They've already given him their demands - reduce welfare bill, more disabled into work, no tax rises in next budget. And they want it confirmed at the despatch box
    How very inspiring.

    Reform are a complete nonsense and rather obscure the picture, but surely there's some sort of thought going on somewhere on the right.
    I suspect the Tories want it to pass, with their help, so Starmer takes the Tory shill hit and if they can recover they don't have to do the cuts themselves (but they ain't recovering to governing level so its moot)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065
    TOPPING said:

    If Starmer really did shout at his MPs the Lab strategists should release the footage all over the socials it would do his image no end of good.

    Unless he came over weally weally angwee in which case maybe not.

    He has minions to shout for him. He ain't in the tea room pressing flesh (yet)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,617

    https://x.com/Peston/status/1938254102108016795

    The prime minister’s ambition to listen to his MPs who have concerns about his welfare reforms is not going to plan. One of his Downing St advisers had a meeting today with some of the rebels and resorted to shouting, according to one observer. “Some of my colleagues were in tears” said an MP. “It was completely inappropriate.”

    Worst PM ever. Worst Chancellor ever. Nastiest 'human being' at DWP ever.
    Dream team
    Silliest poster ever. You are not remotely partisan are you? Third worst Prime Minister please. Johnson and Truss are waving.
    Im utterly partisan when it comes to Labour. They are total dirt.
    This is how some of us felt when your party's appalling Johnson sold the nation down the river to become PM and then once in Downing Street took us all for clowns to be ridiculed. A year of what you feel you have had to put up with doesn't come close to the chaos that clown and his immediate successor created, certainly since 2019. I'd suggest three years prior.

    Perhaps a little more circumspection is in order.
    Nah. Im good, thanks. Im not going to start basing my prejudices on your experiences, that's Borg level shit
    There is a great deal to criticise the Starmer Government over. The sheer gross cruelty behind the Welfare Reform Bill is disgusting. The ineptitude of the WFA debacle is to be ridiculed, and their absurd "no new taxes" narrative is insane, but you are after them for everything with no memory for the mess your lot created. You would have been one of those criticising my Trump or Johnson Derangement Syndrome, yet your version beats mine.

    This place is at its finest when authoritative debate is undertaken. A humourless echo chamber of posting that politician A is shit, followed by an onslaught by a handful of copycats is tiresome. Leon is very adept at winding the spring to create this phenomenon. We have seen some of our finest posters drop off, or at least post less frequently recently. It's hardly surprising when the quality of debate is one of "Starmer is shit". He is, but we need your workings out.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,296
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The average domestic printer is a good objective correlative for the British government since about 2005

    what have you got printer-wise?
    Canon something. Before that HP. Before that something else

    It doesn’t seem to matter. Whatever brand or model they stop working after about three print jobs
    Yeah they're all shit. I still take anything that needs printing to my parents house and use my dad's all singing all dancing colour laser printer that's the size of a small room.
    I’m at the stage where I would buy a proper pro laser printer. But I don’t have the space
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,811
    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://x.com/Peston/status/1938254102108016795

    The prime minister’s ambition to listen to his MPs who have concerns about his welfare reforms is not going to plan. One of his Downing St advisers had a meeting today with some of the rebels and resorted to shouting, according to one observer. “Some of my colleagues were in tears” said an MP. “It was completely inappropriate.”

    It honestly didn't expect this sort of thing to happen only 11 months into a new Labour government. Not good at all.
    I did, you can't govern the country on such a low vote share. Labour only got 1 in 5 voters to vote for them, pushing through any kind of controversial agenda was always going to be difficult on such razor thin margins despite the size of the majority. Their coalition is extremely brittle and Reform are already eating away at it.
    And they have a whole bunch of MPs on small maj worrying about re-election and another bunch who realistically know they will be one term wonders, both harder to threaten/bribe and eager to have some sort of half decent political obituary
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,430
    "UK joins WTO trade arbitration alternative"

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/uk-joins-wto-trade-arbitration-alternative/ar-AA1Hqc99

    Countries working around one of Trump's Term 1 tantrums.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,996
    edited June 26
    TOPPING said:

    If Starmer really did shout at his MPs the Lab strategists should release the footage all over the socials it would do his image no end of good.

    Unless he came over weally weally angwee in which case maybe not.

    I highly doubt he went full Gordon Ramsey.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,715

    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tories could bail Starmer out, but I wonder what they'd want in return.

    They've already given him their demands - reduce welfare bill, more disabled into work, no tax rises in next budget. And they want it confirmed at the despatch box
    How very inspiring.

    Reform are a complete nonsense and rather obscure the picture, but surely there's some sort of thought going on somewhere on the right.
    I suspect the Tories want it to pass, with their help, so Starmer takes the Tory shill hit and if they can recover they don't have to do the cuts themselves (but they ain't recovering to governing level so its moot)
    It's such a nothing of a bill though.

    Imagine 5% cuts all round to welfare - the Tories would love to vote for that on Labour's watch

    What we need is much sharper of course - 50%. And see how the land lies then.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,004
    edited June 26
    Leon said:

    Has any other PBer ever had this insane, unexpected problem? A printer not working?

    I am numb with disbelief and a kind of terror

    Get a library card. In extremis, you can go to your local library with a memory stick and get a print there, but they'll probably ask you to register (take a couple of bills with yor name on it, and photo-id)

    It used to be that the high street had printshops (RIP Staples) where you could get it done, and although they still exist (I should imagine Lahndahn has lots) it's quicker to go to the library.

    Print shops are great. Libraries are great. You are really missing out on the human experience by not going to places like that.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,617

    What's a printer? Is this something one buys with cash?

    Something one buys to print cash?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,811
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The average domestic printer is a good objective correlative for the British government since about 2005

    what have you got printer-wise?
    Canon something. Before that HP. Before that something else

    It doesn’t seem to matter. Whatever brand or model they stop working after about three print jobs
    Yeah they're all shit. I still take anything that needs printing to my parents house and use my dad's all singing all dancing colour laser printer that's the size of a small room.
    I’m at the stage where I would buy a proper pro laser printer. But I don’t have the space
    I have had my smallish brother laser printer for years, only black and white, but if I need it, it delivers, even if it's been idle for months
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,620
    Leon said:

    Has any other PBer ever had this insane, unexpected problem? A printer not working?

    I am numb with disbelief and a kind of terror

    We bought our HP colour laser printer in 2011 and it's still working fine. The only problem is finding legacy printer drivers for it when MS upgrades the OS on the computer.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,997
    TOPPING said:

    If Starmer really did shout at his MPs the Lab strategists should release the footage all over the socials it would do his image no end of good.

    Unless he came over weally weally angwee in which case maybe not.

    The Peston piece claims it was one of his advisers. Wonder which one?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,715

    TOPPING said:

    If Starmer really did shout at his MPs the Lab strategists should release the footage all over the socials it would do his image no end of good.

    Unless he came over weally weally angwee in which case maybe not.

    The Peston piece claims it was one of his advisers. Wonder which one?
    I always thought it was Peston and Cooper. I have no reason to suppose this is true.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,775
    Good piece, Bart. Too busy to respond in detail but basically agree. Let's see more from you please.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,701

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Has any other PBer ever had this insane, unexpected problem? A printer not working?

    I am numb with disbelief and a kind of terror

    I use the spare, which may not help. But mine only go down after about 6 years usually.
    There's the take out a mortgage and pay Rymans to print it out option
    Go to the local library.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,013

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tories could bail Starmer out, but I wonder what they'd want in return.

    They've already given him their demands - reduce welfare bill, more disabled into work, no tax rises in next budget. And they want it confirmed at the despatch box
    I'd say that's nearly meaningless. Kemi always says she has no policies because she can't see the detail of the finances, so how can she suddenly see enough credibly to make these demands?

    - "Reduce welfare bill", without policies, is performative flogging.

    - "More disabled into work" is her admission that the Work Capacity Assessments her party put in place were a f*ck*p.

    - "No tax rises" is nonsense, since circumstances are changing daily in the big, wide world and she keeps demanding that things be done that require more expenditure eg defence, despite their never having been done under the Government where she was a minister, and her party leaving oodles of unfunded promises lying around.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tories could bail Starmer out, but I wonder what they'd want in return.

    They've already given him their demands - reduce welfare bill, more disabled into work, no tax rises in next budget. And they want it confirmed at the despatch box
    How very inspiring.

    Reform are a complete nonsense and rather obscure the picture, but surely there's some sort of thought going on somewhere on the right.
    I suspect the Tories want it to pass, with their help, so Starmer takes the Tory shill hit and if they can recover they don't have to do the cuts themselves (but they ain't recovering to governing level so its moot)
    It's such a nothing of a bill though.

    Imagine 5% cuts all round to welfare - the Tories would love to vote for that on Labour's watch

    What we need is much sharper of course - 50%. And see how the land lies then.
    Littered with bodies? Half the amount people get or half the number that get it? Disabled or unemployed? Both? Pensions?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,997
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The average domestic printer is a good objective correlative for the British government since about 2005

    what have you got printer-wise?
    Canon something. Before that HP. Before that something else

    It doesn’t seem to matter. Whatever brand or model they stop working after about three print jobs
    Yeah they're all shit. I still take anything that needs printing to my parents house and use my dad's all singing all dancing colour laser printer that's the size of a small room.
    I’m at the stage where I would buy a proper pro laser printer. But I don’t have the space
    Housing theory of everything strikes again.

    (Having recently acquired a shoffice/orangery, it's terrifying how quickly it has gone from zen emptiness to comfortably full of stuff. Not uncomfortably full, but full enough thank you. It's not even as if any of the Inromfords are good at buying things.)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065

    https://x.com/Peston/status/1938254102108016795

    The prime minister’s ambition to listen to his MPs who have concerns about his welfare reforms is not going to plan. One of his Downing St advisers had a meeting today with some of the rebels and resorted to shouting, according to one observer. “Some of my colleagues were in tears” said an MP. “It was completely inappropriate.”

    Worst PM ever. Worst Chancellor ever. Nastiest 'human being' at DWP ever.
    Dream team
    Silliest poster ever. You are not remotely partisan are you? Third worst Prime Minister please. Johnson and Truss are waving.
    Im utterly partisan when it comes to Labour. They are total dirt.
    This is how some of us felt when your party's appalling Johnson sold the nation down the river to become PM and then once in Downing Street took us all for clowns to be ridiculed. A year of what you feel you have had to put up with doesn't come close to the chaos that clown and his immediate successor created, certainly since 2019. I'd suggest three years prior.

    Perhaps a little more circumspection is in order.
    Nah. Im good, thanks. Im not going to start basing my prejudices on your experiences, that's Borg level shit
    There is a great deal to criticise the Starmer Government over. The sheer gross cruelty behind the Welfare Reform Bill is disgusting. The ineptitude of the WFA debacle is to be ridiculed, and their absurd "no new taxes" narrative is insane, but you are after them for everything with no memory for the mess your lot created. You would have been one of those criticising my Trump or Johnson Derangement Syndrome, yet your version beats mine.

    This place is at its finest when authoritative debate is undertaken. A humourless echo chamber of posting that politician A is shit, followed by an onslaught by a handful of copycats is tiresome. Leon is very adept at winding the spring to create this phenomenon. We have seen some of our finest posters drop off, or at least post less frequently recently. It's hardly surprising when the quality of debate is one of "Starmer is shit". He is, but we need your workings out.
    Alright, fair enough. I do try quite often to show my workings but sometimes I really do like to let off steam too. And this bill, in particular, boils my piss for entirely personal reasons to me. I will endeavour to restrict my hot headedness whilst reserving the right to fly off the handle like the troubled little soul I am on occasion
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,013
    IanB2 said:

    carnforth said:

    "Weight loss jabs study begins after reports of pancreas issues"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ged0r1n3wo

    As a layman, it doesn't look too serious on the scale of these things. Can anyone offer an informed opinion?

    That the MHRA is looking into it actively is not a good sign for these drugs. I mean, they might conclude there's no issue, but it's not good they're looking
    Certainly bad news if those drugs mess with the pancreas, where many conditions are effectively untreatable
    These drugs are all afaics contraindicated for Type I diabetic patients, which is the pancreatic / endocrine system.

    Translation: "No, there is no chance of you having any. You will have to do lots of exercise and balance your diet even more than you do already to lose the weight you gained over the last treatment period."

    I don't know that much more than that.

    I am now off for my long walk as it is back down below 20C.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,696
    Is anyone else getting really poor car radio reception at the moment ?
    Is it a product of the weather or something ?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tories could bail Starmer out, but I wonder what they'd want in return.

    They've already given him their demands - reduce welfare bill, more disabled into work, no tax rises in next budget. And they want it confirmed at the despatch box
    I'd say that's nearly meaningless. Kemi always says she has no policies because she can't see the detail of the finances, so how can she suddenly see enough credibly to make these demands?

    - "Reduce welfare bill", without policies, is performative flogging.

    - "More disabled into work" is her admission that the Work Capacity Assessments her party put in place were a f*ck*p.

    - "No tax rises" is nonsense, since circumstances are changing daily in the big, wide world and she keeps demanding that things be done that require more expenditure eg defence, despite their never having been done under the Government where she was a minister, and her party leaving oodles of unfunded promises lying around.
    It is entirely meaningless, its the cat playing with the mouse because she can
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,715

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tories could bail Starmer out, but I wonder what they'd want in return.

    They've already given him their demands - reduce welfare bill, more disabled into work, no tax rises in next budget. And they want it confirmed at the despatch box
    How very inspiring.

    Reform are a complete nonsense and rather obscure the picture, but surely there's some sort of thought going on somewhere on the right.
    I suspect the Tories want it to pass, with their help, so Starmer takes the Tory shill hit and if they can recover they don't have to do the cuts themselves (but they ain't recovering to governing level so its moot)
    It's such a nothing of a bill though.

    Imagine 5% cuts all round to welfare - the Tories would love to vote for that on Labour's watch

    What we need is much sharper of course - 50%. And see how the land lies then.
    Littered with bodies? Half the amount people get or half the number that get it? Disabled or unemployed? Both? Pensions?
    Yes. That'd be the implication. The bodies would be non-existent. A very few would experience very great hardship and you'd have to sweep up and correct that. I'd suggest that nearly all of our welfare budget is entirely unnecessary. And you can do something to shake out the villains.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,865
    edited June 26
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tories could bail Starmer out, but I wonder what they'd want in return.

    They've already given him their demands - reduce welfare bill, more disabled into work, no tax rises in next budget. And they want it confirmed at the despatch box
    How very inspiring.

    Reform are a complete nonsense and rather obscure the picture, but surely there's some sort of thought going on somewhere on the right.
    I suspect the Tories want it to pass, with their help, so Starmer takes the Tory shill hit and if they can recover they don't have to do the cuts themselves (but they ain't recovering to governing level so its moot)
    It's such a nothing of a bill though.

    Imagine 5% cuts all round to welfare - the Tories would love to vote for that on Labour's watch

    What we need is much sharper of course - 50%. And see how the land lies then.
    Benefits should not be cut for those in genuine need but should not be paid to those who have no need

    I know it is my hobby horse but why are millionaires getting free NHS and the state pension ?

    And the triple lock and WFP
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,811
    Leon said:

    Has any other PBer ever had this insane, unexpected problem? Printer not working?

    I am numb with disbelief and a kind of terror

    None of the people in the other bedsits in your block have a printer you can borrow?


  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,891
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tories could bail Starmer out, but I wonder what they'd want in return.

    They've already given him their demands - reduce welfare bill, more disabled into work, no tax rises in next budget. And they want it confirmed at the despatch box
    I'd say that's nearly meaningless. Kemi always says she has no policies because she can't see the detail of the finances, so how can she suddenly see enough credibly to make these demands?

    - "Reduce welfare bill", without policies, is performative flogging.

    - "More disabled into work" is her admission that the Work Capacity Assessments her party put in place were a f*ck*p.

    - "No tax rises" is nonsense, since circumstances are changing daily in the big, wide world and she keeps demanding that things be done that require more expenditure eg defence, despite their never having been done under the Government where she was a minister, and her party leaving oodles of unfunded promises lying around.
    Yes, but she is in opposition and has the joy of being able to float anything without being held to account. Labour did it for 14 years. All those PBers laughing that the Tories will have to get used to standing on the outside howling at the moon cant exactly complain, this is what they forecast. Same applies to Farage he can promise gold plated unicorns today and winning lottery tickets for all tomorrow, it's the fun of being in opposition.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,296
    It would help if the REDACTED REDACTED French tax authorities didn't ask for some forms to be double sided, yet others single sided, for NO APPARENT REASON WHATSOEVER
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tories could bail Starmer out, but I wonder what they'd want in return.

    They've already given him their demands - reduce welfare bill, more disabled into work, no tax rises in next budget. And they want it confirmed at the despatch box
    How very inspiring.

    Reform are a complete nonsense and rather obscure the picture, but surely there's some sort of thought going on somewhere on the right.
    I suspect the Tories want it to pass, with their help, so Starmer takes the Tory shill hit and if they can recover they don't have to do the cuts themselves (but they ain't recovering to governing level so its moot)
    It's such a nothing of a bill though.

    Imagine 5% cuts all round to welfare - the Tories would love to vote for that on Labour's watch

    What we need is much sharper of course - 50%. And see how the land lies then.
    Littered with bodies? Half the amount people get or half the number that get it? Disabled or unemployed? Both? Pensions?
    Yes. That'd be the implication. The bodies would be non-existent. A very few would experience very great hardship and you'd have to sweep up and correct that. I'd suggest that nearly all of our welfare budget is entirely unnecessary. And you can do something to shake out the villains.
    They wouldn't be non existent. And it would be more than a very few.
    You need to start by having suitable jobs in large numbers available, incentivising the employment of the disabled and sorting out the care system and carers rather than halving everything and going soup kitchen on everyone.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,811

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tories could bail Starmer out, but I wonder what they'd want in return.

    They've already given him their demands - reduce welfare bill, more disabled into work, no tax rises in next budget. And they want it confirmed at the despatch box
    I'd say that's nearly meaningless. Kemi always says she has no policies because she can't see the detail of the finances, so how can she suddenly see enough credibly to make these demands?

    - "Reduce welfare bill", without policies, is performative flogging.

    - "More disabled into work" is her admission that the Work Capacity Assessments her party put in place were a f*ck*p.

    - "No tax rises" is nonsense, since circumstances are changing daily in the big, wide world and she keeps demanding that things be done that require more expenditure eg defence, despite their never having been done under the Government where she was a minister, and her party leaving oodles of unfunded promises lying around.
    It is entirely meaningless, its the cat playing with the mouse because she can
    Clever Tory strategy would be to give out they're going to vote against, then on the day pitch up and vote it through. Leaving Labour with a bunch of rebels awaiting punishment having achieved nothing, and folks in the country losing money for which they will always only blame the government
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,865
    If you want to witness the vulgarity and sheer ignorance of the billionaire class, just watch Bezos wedding in Venice

    It insults the senses and Venetian's have every right to be furious

    Hopefully the will vent their fury appropriately
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,598

    If you want to witness the vulgarity and sheer ignorance of the billionaire class, just watch Bezos wedding in Venice

    It insults the senses and Venetian's have every right to be furious

    Hopefully the will vent their fury appropriately

    Welcome to the cause comrade
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065
    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tories could bail Starmer out, but I wonder what they'd want in return.

    They've already given him their demands - reduce welfare bill, more disabled into work, no tax rises in next budget. And they want it confirmed at the despatch box
    I'd say that's nearly meaningless. Kemi always says she has no policies because she can't see the detail of the finances, so how can she suddenly see enough credibly to make these demands?

    - "Reduce welfare bill", without policies, is performative flogging.

    - "More disabled into work" is her admission that the Work Capacity Assessments her party put in place were a f*ck*p.

    - "No tax rises" is nonsense, since circumstances are changing daily in the big, wide world and she keeps demanding that things be done that require more expenditure eg defence, despite their never having been done under the Government where she was a minister, and her party leaving oodles of unfunded promises lying around.
    It is entirely meaningless, its the cat playing with the mouse because she can
    Clever Tory strategy would be to give out they're going to vote against, then on the day pitch up and vote it through. Leaving Labour with a bunch of rebels awaiting punishment having achieved nothing, and folks in the country losing money for which they will always only blame the government
    That could be what happens as there is no way SKS does what she wants before Tuesday
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,013
    Leon said:

    It would help if the REDACTED REDACTED French tax authorities didn't ask for some forms to be double sided, yet others single sided, for NO APPARENT REASON WHATSOEVER

    I thought every printer did double sided these days. All of mine have since around 199x .

    Do you have to do a USA one as well every year? For that you have my sympathy.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,865

    If you want to witness the vulgarity and sheer ignorance of the billionaire class, just watch Bezos wedding in Venice

    It insults the senses and Venetian's have every right to be furious

    Hopefully the will vent their fury appropriately

    Welcome to the cause comrade
    I have never supported the extreme wealthy and especially when it is on full vulgar display
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,701
    Leon said:

    It would help if the REDACTED REDACTED French tax authorities didn't ask for some forms to be double sided, yet others single sided, for NO APPARENT REASON WHATSOEVER

    I thought all that sort of stuff was done online nowadays.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,715

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tories could bail Starmer out, but I wonder what they'd want in return.

    They've already given him their demands - reduce welfare bill, more disabled into work, no tax rises in next budget. And they want it confirmed at the despatch box
    How very inspiring.

    Reform are a complete nonsense and rather obscure the picture, but surely there's some sort of thought going on somewhere on the right.
    I suspect the Tories want it to pass, with their help, so Starmer takes the Tory shill hit and if they can recover they don't have to do the cuts themselves (but they ain't recovering to governing level so its moot)
    It's such a nothing of a bill though.

    Imagine 5% cuts all round to welfare - the Tories would love to vote for that on Labour's watch

    What we need is much sharper of course - 50%. And see how the land lies then.
    Littered with bodies? Half the amount people get or half the number that get it? Disabled or unemployed? Both? Pensions?
    Yes. That'd be the implication. The bodies would be non-existent. A very few would experience very great hardship and you'd have to sweep up and correct that. I'd suggest that nearly all of our welfare budget is entirely unnecessary. And you can do something to shake out the villains.
    They wouldn't be non existent. And it would be more than a very few.
    You need to start by having suitable jobs in large numbers available, incentivising the employment of the disabled and sorting out the care system and carers rather than halving everything and going soup kitchen on everyone.
    Perhaps you're right. However by your very engagement you can see that less might be more.

    The obvious place to rework the system is spending. Just cut it.

    The politicians way is to increase that spending.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065
    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,916
    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1938277337566531950

    Starmer claimed he had no choice but to represent a woman arrested over 500 times for breaking into RAF bases.

    That’s not true. She said he VOLUNTEERED to do it FOR FREE.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,865

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    I was extremely surprised how empty Starmer's benches were at the time
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,996
    edited June 26

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Well all good things come to and end, 11 years is a long time for a PM and MPs become increasingly emboldened to defy the headmaster....oh sorry not 11 years, 11 months.

    BUT BUT BUT, when I was head of the CPS, we never had any of these problems, as the son of a toolmaker, I know what it is like to be the backbencher...
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,620

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The average domestic printer is a good objective correlative for the British government since about 2005

    what have you got printer-wise?
    Canon something. Before that HP. Before that something else

    It doesn’t seem to matter. Whatever brand or model they stop working after about three print jobs
    Yeah they're all shit. I still take anything that needs printing to my parents house and use my dad's all singing all dancing colour laser printer that's the size of a small room.
    I’m at the stage where I would buy a proper pro laser printer. But I don’t have the space
    Housing theory of everything strikes again.

    (Having recently acquired a shoffice/orangery, it's terrifying how quickly it has gone from zen emptiness to comfortably full of stuff. Not uncomfortably full, but full enough thank you. It's not even as if any of the Inromfords are good at buying things.)
    Yes when we got our garden office I didn't envisage it becoming a home for stray paint tins.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,996

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1938277337566531950

    Starmer claimed he had no choice but to represent a woman arrested over 500 times for breaking into RAF bases.

    That’s not true. She said he VOLUNTEERED to do it FOR FREE.

    Jenrick needs to sort out the hand action, its bloody annoying.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,598

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1938277337566531950

    Starmer claimed he had no choice but to represent a woman arrested over 500 times for breaking into RAF bases.

    That’s not true. She said he VOLUNTEERED to do it FOR FREE.

    Maybe we should have a defamation trial and Bobby J can represent her
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tories could bail Starmer out, but I wonder what they'd want in return.

    They've already given him their demands - reduce welfare bill, more disabled into work, no tax rises in next budget. And they want it confirmed at the despatch box
    How very inspiring.

    Reform are a complete nonsense and rather obscure the picture, but surely there's some sort of thought going on somewhere on the right.
    I suspect the Tories want it to pass, with their help, so Starmer takes the Tory shill hit and if they can recover they don't have to do the cuts themselves (but they ain't recovering to governing level so its moot)
    It's such a nothing of a bill though.

    Imagine 5% cuts all round to welfare - the Tories would love to vote for that on Labour's watch

    What we need is much sharper of course - 50%. And see how the land lies then.
    Littered with bodies? Half the amount people get or half the number that get it? Disabled or unemployed? Both? Pensions?
    Yes. That'd be the implication. The bodies would be non-existent. A very few would experience very great hardship and you'd have to sweep up and correct that. I'd suggest that nearly all of our welfare budget is entirely unnecessary. And you can do something to shake out the villains.
    They wouldn't be non existent. And it would be more than a very few.
    You need to start by having suitable jobs in large numbers available, incentivising the employment of the disabled and sorting out the care system and carers rather than halving everything and going soup kitchen on everyone.
    Perhaps you're right. However by your very engagement you can see that less might be more.

    The obvious place to rework the system is spending. Just cut it.

    The politicians way is to increase that spending.
    Im very much a fix the whole thing guy. The savings come from creating the correct/a better whole.

    To take the example of PIP, most of that money gets spent in the local community on care, services etc etc. Just cutting it is taking money out of local economies to reduce the central budget. Coupled with the lack of actually doing any structural reform or improvement it's a nonsense approach
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,956
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I for one am absolutely stunned - literally shaken to the core with horrified surprise - to discover that my printer has stopped working

    I am still using the printer I bought in 2001.
    We've still got a printer from about 1987 that works. Trying to remember the name of it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,427

    https://x.com/Peston/status/1938254102108016795

    The prime minister’s ambition to listen to his MPs who have concerns about his welfare reforms is not going to plan. One of his Downing St advisers had a meeting today with some of the rebels and resorted to shouting, according to one observer. “Some of my colleagues were in tears” said an MP. “It was completely inappropriate.”

    Snowflakes. I bet this "shouting" will be like claims of horrendous abuse by the Raab for looking funny at people and asking them to redo their homework without the mistakes i.e. shouting = he spoke in a slightly louder and grumpy tone.
    Raab was an arse, and this appears to be as inappropriate. Shouting at subordinates because one can is very 1970s.
    We were warned:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-13762783/PRITI-PATEL-Five-years-Sir-Keir-Starmer-charge-50-years-1970s.html

    PRITI PATEL: Five years of Sir Keir Starmer in charge will take us back 50 years to the 1970s
    So, you're saying that just 15 years of SKS can take us all the way back to 1875 when Brittania ruled the waves?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,811

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    In a parallel universe, Labour came to power and jacked up income tax, because we need to defend the country and do X, Y & Z, put up with lot of grumbling and just set about doing X, Y & Z, and if they were clever, dropped taxes just a little before their re-election.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,865

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,013
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    It would help if the REDACTED REDACTED French tax authorities didn't ask for some forms to be double sided, yet others single sided, for NO APPARENT REASON WHATSOEVER

    I thought every printer did double sided these days. All of mine have since around 199x .

    Do you have to do a USA one as well every year? For that you have my sympathy.
    (Actually it's since 198x, since I had a Star NL-10 at University :smile: .)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    I was extremely surprised how empty Starmer's benches were at the time
    Take with all due buckets of salt but the rumour mill says Reeves has been inconsolably upset all day and SKS is firmly rabbit in headlights and that it's all falling apart in the central operation
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,620

    If you want to witness the vulgarity and sheer ignorance of the billionaire class, just watch Bezos wedding in Venice

    It insults the senses and Venetian's have every right to be furious

    Hopefully the will vent their fury appropriately

    It's startling how they've spent so much money on something that actually sounds shit.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065
    edited June 26
    Im guessing they've spent all day today trying to find out what the rebels 'want' and are discovering its a myriad of different things they cannot possibly deliver to get enough to back down
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    I think no in fairness but I think Reeves and maybe Kendall sackings are the price to keep him in post till May
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,381
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fair play to him.

    Tory MP Takes Swipe At Kemi Badenoch For Attacking Starmer Over PMQs Absence

    Mark Pritchard said: "I may get the party whip withdrawn for saying it, but so be it."


    A senior Tory MP has taken an astonishing swipe at Kemi Badenoch after she accused Keir Starmer of dodging prime minister’s questions.

    The opposition leader said Starmer had “evaded” PMQs for the last two weeks, when he has been attending the G7 and Nato summits abroad.

    In response, a clearly-angry PM accused Badenoch of being “unserious” at a time of huge global instability.

    He said: “There’s never been a more important time to work with our allies and to be absolutely serious in our response. That response was unserious. Unserious.

    “To suggest at a time like this that the prime minister attending the G7 summit and the Nato summit is avoiding PMQs is unserious.”

    Later during the same Commons debate, Mark Pritchard, the Conservative MP for The Wrekin, attacked his own leader over her comments.

    He said: “Whilst we may disagree on the detail, can I agree with the prime minister that as far as possible in this place, it would be best to keep partisan politics out of national security issues.

    “Who knows, I may get the party whip withdrawn for saying it, but so be it. There are things that go beyond party politics.”


    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/tory-mp-takes-swipe-at-kemi-badenoch-for-attacking-starmer-over-pmqs-absence_uk_685d30ece4b0c601d5a1eeb7

    No wonder Dave (pbuh) thinks Jenrick will do a better job than Kemi.

    Kemi has just turned out to be a bit shit. Jenrick would at least get the Tories back in the public eye, positively or negatively that's at least something they could do.
    I agree.

    Jenrick has an eye for getting himself noticed. He's also managed to identify areas where Britain isn't working, and get some publicity around how Labour's not dealing with said issues.

    His only issue is that pretty much all of these (like fare dodging) were true under the Tories too.

    But if the question is "would the Tories be doing better under Jenrick?", then the answer is a clear "yes".
    Disagree, and for the reason you note, which is that Jenrick is just identifying holes dug by his own side, and reminding NOTA voters to support Reform. Starmer would bat these things away just as easily as he does when Kemi raises them. Jenrick, to use the word du jour, is unserious.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,916

    If you want to witness the vulgarity and sheer ignorance of the billionaire class, just watch Bezos wedding in Venice

    It insults the senses and Venetian's have every right to be furious

    Hopefully the will vent their fury appropriately

    It's startling how they've spent so much money on something that actually sounds shit.
    They should have done it at the Venetian in Las Vegas.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,296
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    It would help if the REDACTED REDACTED French tax authorities didn't ask for some forms to be double sided, yet others single sided, for NO APPARENT REASON WHATSOEVER

    I thought every printer did double sided these days. All of mine have since around 199x .

    Do you have to do a USA one as well every year? For that you have my sympathy.
    Yes, US as well. The very worst of all
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065
    edited June 26
    IanB2 said:

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    In a parallel universe, Labour came to power and jacked up income tax, because we need to defend the country and do X, Y & Z, put up with lot of grumbling and just set about doing X, Y & Z, and if they were clever, dropped taxes just a little before their re-election.
    Yep. If the very first thing they did wasn't punishment beatings for the elderly for not voting Labour in enough numbers but a proper long term economic reset we might be in a different world.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,647
    edited June 26

    If you want to witness the vulgarity and sheer ignorance of the billionaire class, just watch Bezos wedding in Venice

    It insults the senses and Venetian's have every right to be furious

    Hopefully the will vent their fury appropriately

    It's startling how they've spent so much money on something that actually sounds shit.
    It’s also annoying because I thought Bezos was the best of a bad bunch out of that lot. A bit nerdy, a bit megalomaniacal, but not sheer unadulterated evil. Perhaps he just has bad taste and a blind spot for annoying locals.

    (honourable exception for Bill Gates in all these tech titan comparisons, of course)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,770

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    I was extremely surprised how empty Starmer's benches were at the time
    Take with all due buckets of salt but the rumour mill says Reeves has been inconsolably upset all day and SKS is firmly rabbit in headlights and that it's all falling apart in the central operation
    "The Rumour Mill" - I mean, seriously?

    I know you want this Government to collapse and in some strange mystical way a new Government to take its place but this kind of wishcasting.....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,617

    https://x.com/Peston/status/1938254102108016795

    The prime minister’s ambition to listen to his MPs who have concerns about his welfare reforms is not going to plan. One of his Downing St advisers had a meeting today with some of the rebels and resorted to shouting, according to one observer. “Some of my colleagues were in tears” said an MP. “It was completely inappropriate.”

    Worst PM ever. Worst Chancellor ever. Nastiest 'human being' at DWP ever.
    Dream team
    Silliest poster ever. You are not remotely partisan are you? Third worst Prime Minister please. Johnson and Truss are waving.
    Im utterly partisan when it comes to Labour. They are total dirt.
    This is how some of us felt when your party's appalling Johnson sold the nation down the river to become PM and then once in Downing Street took us all for clowns to be ridiculed. A year of what you feel you have had to put up with doesn't come close to the chaos that clown and his immediate successor created, certainly since 2019. I'd suggest three years prior.

    Perhaps a little more circumspection is in order.
    Nah. Im good, thanks. Im not going to start basing my prejudices on your experiences, that's Borg level shit
    There is a great deal to criticise the Starmer Government over. The sheer gross cruelty behind the Welfare Reform Bill is disgusting. The ineptitude of the WFA debacle is to be ridiculed, and their absurd "no new taxes" narrative is insane, but you are after them for everything with no memory for the mess your lot created. You would have been one of those criticising my Trump or Johnson Derangement Syndrome, yet your version beats mine.

    This place is at its finest when authoritative debate is undertaken. A humourless echo chamber of posting that politician A is shit, followed by an onslaught by a handful of copycats is tiresome. Leon is very adept at winding the spring to create this phenomenon. We have seen some of our finest posters drop off, or at least post less frequently recently. It's hardly surprising when the quality of debate is one of "Starmer is shit". He is, but we need your workings out.
    Alright, fair enough. I do try quite often to show my workings but sometimes I really do like to let off steam too. And this bill, in particular, boils my piss for entirely personal reasons to me. I will endeavour to restrict my hot headedness whilst reserving the right to fly off the handle like the troubled little soul I am on occasion
    I quite agree the Welfare Reform Bill has nothing to commend it, despite the nation needing to reduce the cost of the welfare bill.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,996
    edited June 26
    TimS said:

    If you want to witness the vulgarity and sheer ignorance of the billionaire class, just watch Bezos wedding in Venice

    It insults the senses and Venetian's have every right to be furious

    Hopefully the will vent their fury appropriately

    It's startling how they've spent so much money on something that actually sounds shit.
    It’s also annoying because I thought Bezos was the best of a bad bunch out of that lot. A bit nerdy, a bit megalomaniacal, but not sheer unadulterated evil. Perhaps he just has bad taste and a blind spot for annoying locals.

    (honourable exception for Bill Gates in all these tech titan comparisons, of course)
    Amazon has a very poor reputation among high-tech IT staff for the structure of their contracts and firing practices, in a way that Google, Meta, etc just don't do. So it isn't just the drivers and pickers that get a poor deal.

    The people who do join Amazon often do it just to get that on their CV as proof of ability to be hired by one of the big companies, not because they think they are going to be there long term. Nvidia on the other hand, loads of people still work there and work really hard, despite having enough money to have retired donkeys years ago.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,865

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    I was extremely surprised how empty Starmer's benches were at the time
    Take with all due buckets of salt but the rumour mill says Reeves has been inconsolably upset all day and SKS is firmly rabbit in headlights and that it's all falling apart in the central operation
    She looked grim and close to tears at PMQs yesterday

    Her resignation or sacking grows daily
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,701

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    That's where political enemies do sit.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,865

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    I think no in fairness but I think Reeves and maybe Kendall sackings are the price to keep him in post till May
    Seems more likely day by day
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,162

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    What's interesting is that Nigel has been fairly anonymous of late, but he doesn't actually need to do anything - the fact that Reform has sliced chunks out of Labour's polling has put the willies up its MPs and they're desperate. If Labour's polling had fallen only a few points then Sir Keir would be given a bit of leeway (mid-term blues etc.), but as it is the fall has been precipitous and a sense of horror and doom prevails.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,004

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    It would be difficult to imagine that a PM with 411 seats and four years left of his mandate would be in trouble. It speaks to our febrile times that you might be right :(
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,865

    If you want to witness the vulgarity and sheer ignorance of the billionaire class, just watch Bezos wedding in Venice

    It insults the senses and Venetian's have every right to be furious

    Hopefully the will vent their fury appropriately

    It's startling how they've spent so much money on something that actually sounds shit.
    Pocket money to Bezos, but it does show how empty he and those like him are
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065
    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1938275448707772819?s=19

    Again.... Unemployment is up. What is the matter with him?!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,996
    edited June 26

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1938275448707772819?s=19

    Again.... Unemployment is up. What is the matter with him?!

    It has to be a bot, it has to be. It so weird.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,004
    AnneJGP said:

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    That's where political enemies do sit.
    As Diane Abbott once said (quoting somebody else). "Your opponents are in front of you, your enemies are behind you".
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065
    stodge said:

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    I was extremely surprised how empty Starmer's benches were at the time
    Take with all due buckets of salt but the rumour mill says Reeves has been inconsolably upset all day and SKS is firmly rabbit in headlights and that it's all falling apart in the central operation
    "The Rumour Mill" - I mean, seriously?

    I know you want this Government to collapse and in some strange mystical way a new Government to take its place but this kind of wishcasting.....
    That's why I said to take with all due buckets of salt.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,617

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    Not many Trusses in a Starmer?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,381
    TimS said:

    If you want to witness the vulgarity and sheer ignorance of the billionaire class, just watch Bezos wedding in Venice

    It insults the senses and Venetian's have every right to be furious

    Hopefully the will vent their fury appropriately

    It's startling how they've spent so much money on something that actually sounds shit.
    It’s also annoying because I thought Bezos was the best of a bad bunch out of that lot. A bit nerdy, a bit megalomaniacal, but not sheer unadulterated evil. Perhaps he just has bad taste and a blind spot for annoying locals.

    (honourable exception for Bill Gates in all these tech titan comparisons, of course)
    Bezos who bought arguably the most prestigious newspaper in America, the Washington Post, and stopped it endorsing Kamala?

    And although Bill Gates is now on the side of the angels, his ethics during the rise of Microsoft did not bear too close examination.

    Speaking of Bezos, did the PB maths and physics nerds see Bezos explaining why he gave up science? (1-minute videos but others are available):-
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/TOO8pWUsSvU
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,865
    viewcode said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    That's where political enemies do sit.
    As Diane Abbott once said (quoting somebody else). "Your opponents are in front of you, your enemies are behind you".
    Diane has grown on me recently and at least she is authentic, unlike Starmer and others
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 172
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Has any other PBer ever had this insane, unexpected problem? A printer not working?

    I am numb with disbelief and a kind of terror

    I've always just bought new printers when the ink runs out. It's far cheaper.
    A cheapish laser printer seems almost foolproof to me and the ink cartridges are very easy to swap.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,647
    edited June 26

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    I think no in fairness but I think Reeves and maybe Kendall sackings are the price to keep him in post till May
    A ritual reshuffle is probably needed, then some well placed press articles noting that Keir seems to have a weight lifted off his shoulders and is back to his natural self (I remember such articles with both May and Major, his two closest personality matches in recent PMs, not that they helped in the end).

    The trouble is most of his front bench are decent.

    He has Wes, Yvette and Bridget. All confident media performers. And Ed, though hated by those who will still be insisting next Monday’s 36C in London off the back of a truly mediocre synoptic pattern is a mere bagatelle, has his own charisma and is on top of his brief. Johnny Reynolds is a good business secretary and could move to the treasury. Ange is solid. Lammy seems to divide opinion but I have a soft spot for him. Probably Starmer needs just one or two more.

    None is a leader in waiting either. I don’t think Streeting is quite ready. Otherwise not an obvious Jenrick or Boris type waiting in the wings.

    Just like Reform. No obvious succession.

    Contrast with the Lib Dems where Daisy Cooper is poised, trained up and ready to assume the mantle (just not yet, says Davey).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,811
    edited June 26
    Meanwhile, Denmark is on the horizon, we’re off the Swedish coast in the Kattegat (why that Vikings TV show named its town after a piece of sea remains a mystery), and it’s actually now raining. Poor show.

    But this ex-DFDS ship has dozens of ways to eat and drink, with a cocktail bar, night club, wine bar, table service Scandinavian restaurant, Italian restaurant, English style pub, and a lavish Scandinavian eat-as-much-as-you-want while drinking €10 glasses of wine buffet restaurant, from which I have just returned; no wonder DFDS is so often awarded ‘ferry operator of the year’.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065

    viewcode said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    That's where political enemies do sit.
    As Diane Abbott once said (quoting somebody else). "Your opponents are in front of you, your enemies are behind you".
    Diane has grown on me recently and at least she is authentic, unlike Starmer and others
    Weather vanes and signposts as Tony Benn would have it. Abbott is a signpost
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,715
    rcs1000 said:

    https://x.com/Peston/status/1938254102108016795

    The prime minister’s ambition to listen to his MPs who have concerns about his welfare reforms is not going to plan. One of his Downing St advisers had a meeting today with some of the rebels and resorted to shouting, according to one observer. “Some of my colleagues were in tears” said an MP. “It was completely inappropriate.”

    Snowflakes. I bet this "shouting" will be like claims of horrendous abuse by the Raab for looking funny at people and asking them to redo their homework without the mistakes i.e. shouting = he spoke in a slightly louder and grumpy tone.
    Raab was an arse, and this appears to be as inappropriate. Shouting at subordinates because one can is very 1970s.
    We were warned:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-13762783/PRITI-PATEL-Five-years-Sir-Keir-Starmer-charge-50-years-1970s.html

    PRITI PATEL: Five years of Sir Keir Starmer in charge will take us back 50 years to the 1970s
    So, you're saying that just 15 years of SKS can take us all the way back to 1875 when Brittania ruled the waves?
    If you were Disraeli in 1875 and forming a current cabinet, from current MPs, who do you think you might choose?

    (I had to look up who was PM then, and thank god I did, as my guess would have had me standing in the corner!)

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,617

    viewcode said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    That's where political enemies do sit.
    As Diane Abbott once said (quoting somebody else). "Your opponents are in front of you, your enemies are behind you".
    Diane has grown on me recently and at least she is authentic, unlike Starmer and others
    I still can't bear her By authentic do you mean without a filter?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,701
    viewcode said:

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    It would be difficult to imagine that a PM with 411 seats and four years left of his mandate would be in trouble. It speaks to our febrile times that you might be right :(
    And yet, who is there that will do better?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,865

    viewcode said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    That's where political enemies do sit.
    As Diane Abbott once said (quoting somebody else). "Your opponents are in front of you, your enemies are behind you".
    Diane has grown on me recently and at least she is authentic, unlike Starmer and others
    I still can't bear her By authentic do you mean without a filter?
    I do not agree with her politics, but she is consistent and speaks with genuine emotion about her causes
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,617

    TOPPING said:

    If Starmer really did shout at his MPs the Lab strategists should release the footage all over the socials it would do his image no end of good.

    Unless he came over weally weally angwee in which case maybe not.

    I highly doubt he went full Gordon Ramsey.
    More Gordon Brittas*?

    *Copyright @MarqueeMark
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,865
    AnneJGP said:

    viewcode said:

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    It would be difficult to imagine that a PM with 411 seats and four years left of his mandate would be in trouble. It speaks to our febrile times that you might be right :(
    And yet, who is there that will do better?
    And that is the sad fact for our country and the lowest of all bars
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065
    AnneJGP said:

    viewcode said:

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    It would be difficult to imagine that a PM with 411 seats and four years left of his mandate would be in trouble. It speaks to our febrile times that you might be right :(
    And yet, who is there that will do better?
    Probably due somebody suggesting David Miliband could stand in a by election..........
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,370
    edited June 26
    First, thanks to Bartholomew Roberts for the informative header. (There's a 1991 book,by Alan Ehrenalt, The United States of Ambition, that discusses this general problem, here in the US.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Ehrenhalt )

    On problems with peripherals: I learned from experience that one should -- usually -- check the connection between the computer and the peripheral first.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,381

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1938277337566531950

    Starmer claimed he had no choice but to represent a woman arrested over 500 times for breaking into RAF bases.

    That’s not true. She said he VOLUNTEERED to do it FOR FREE.

    Jenrick needs to sort out the hand action, its bloody annoying.
    Jamming his other hand into his pocket looks silly as well. There have been a lot worse media performers at the top in politics but Jenrick should get some serious media training while he has time. (As should they all.)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,865

    AnneJGP said:

    viewcode said:

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    It would be difficult to imagine that a PM with 411 seats and four years left of his mandate would be in trouble. It speaks to our febrile times that you might be right :(
    And yet, who is there that will do better?
    Probably due somebody suggesting David Miliband could stand in a by election..........
    And @HYUFD - Boris of course !!!!!!!!!!!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,996
    edited June 26

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1938277337566531950

    Starmer claimed he had no choice but to represent a woman arrested over 500 times for breaking into RAF bases.

    That’s not true. She said he VOLUNTEERED to do it FOR FREE.

    Jenrick needs to sort out the hand action, its bloody annoying.
    Jamming his other hand into his pocket looks silly as well. There have been a lot worse media performers at the top in politics but Jenrick should get some serious media training while he has time. (As should they all.)
    I think somebody has told him you have to do the walk at the camera looking all high energy is what da kidz do along with the closed captions at the bottom for watching on silent during class PMQs.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,065

    viewcode said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    That's where political enemies do sit.
    As Diane Abbott once said (quoting somebody else). "Your opponents are in front of you, your enemies are behind you".
    Diane has grown on me recently and at least she is authentic, unlike Starmer and others
    I still can't bear her By authentic do you mean without a filter?
    I do not agree with her politics, but she is consistent and speaks with genuine emotion about her causes
    Maybe someone should drag Cameron out of the Lords and tell him he's got 12 months to sort out the mess he left us in in 2016.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,617
    AnneJGP said:

    viewcode said:

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    It would be difficult to imagine that a PM with 411 seats and four years left of his mandate would be in trouble. It speaks to our febrile times that you might be right :(
    And yet, who is there that will do better?
    Although he blotted his copybook last month, Darren Jones. But I suspect it will be a lady. Ange, or perhaps Wes.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,865

    viewcode said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Leaked texts show Labour MPs had to be ordered to attend the PM’s NATO statement.
    First message: 'You’re encouraged to attend.'
    Second: 'You must attend.'
    Benches still half-empty.
    'That doesn’t augur well for the Prime Minister.'
    — Kevin Schofield, HuffPost UK

    Authority ebbing away as Rentoul said

    Are we seriously witnessing Starmer's end days ?

    I find it most unlikely but it seems if it happens it is coming from those behind him, not those he is facing
    That's where political enemies do sit.
    As Diane Abbott once said (quoting somebody else). "Your opponents are in front of you, your enemies are behind you".
    Diane has grown on me recently and at least she is authentic, unlike Starmer and others
    I still can't bear her By authentic do you mean without a filter?
    I do not agree with her politics, but she is consistent and speaks with genuine emotion about her causes
    Maybe someone should drag Cameron out of the Lords and tell him he's got 12 months to sort out the mess he left us in in 2016.
    Now here is a suggestion

    Bring back Cameron and Nick Clegg to reprise their coalition

    I would vote for that
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,255
    Leon said:

    I for one am absolutely stunned - literally shaken to the core with horrified surprise - to discover that my printer has stopped working

    Didn’t you spend days a few months ago telling us what a wonderful printer you had bought at a bargain price?
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