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Meet Reform’s new chairman – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,517
edited June 12 in General
Meet Reform’s new chairman – politicalbetting.com

Richard Madeley’s response to this incredible story is why he is a giant of broadcasting. pic.twitter.com/9YgRIsR9GU

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,606
    Hello?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,303
    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,641
    Wooooooooh
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,606
    It was like a ghost town on this thread when I first got here.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,715
    LOL!
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,606
    I couldn't hear his response but what is a giant of broadcasting doing, asking the chairman of an up and coming political party whether he believes in ghosts? Is that the most pressing issue of the day?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,303
    AnneJGP said:

    I couldn't hear his response but what is a giant of broadcasting doing, asking the chairman of an up and coming political party whether he believes in ghosts? Is that the most pressing issue of the day?

    He used to present Most Haunted Live
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,313
    Roger said:

    You've got to admire his spirit

    They do come across as "other Worldly".

    I suppose David Icke's notion of shape shifting lizards running the nation could be a step closer.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,303
    State dept have cancelled a press conference amidst the tension in the ME. Eyes on Iran!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,313
    AnneJGP said:

    It was like a ghost town on this thread when I first got here.

    We were all in a parallel universe with Dr David Bull.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,576

    State dept have cancelled a press conference amidst the tension in the ME. Eyes on Iran!

    Yawn. 🌮
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,313

    AnneJGP said:

    I couldn't hear his response but what is a giant of broadcasting doing, asking the chairman of an up and coming political party whether he believes in ghosts? Is that the most pressing issue of the day?

    He used to present Most Haunted Live
    Should that be Most Haunted Dead?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,303

    AnneJGP said:

    I couldn't hear his response but what is a giant of broadcasting doing, asking the chairman of an up and coming political party whether he believes in ghosts? Is that the most pressing issue of the day?

    He used to present Most Haunted Live
    Should that be Most Haunted Dead?
    You've scored a ghoul, well done
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,606

    AnneJGP said:

    It was like a ghost town on this thread when I first got here.

    We were all in a parallel universe with Dr David Bull.
    I thought there might be something important being broadcast live, which I don't watch.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,313
    AnneJGP said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It was like a ghost town on this thread when I first got here.

    We were all in a parallel universe with Dr David Bull.
    I thought there might be something important being broadcast live, which I don't watch.
    I get my news from PB!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,303
    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,564

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    6 pts down from the top dog party at this point in a parliament is OK for the gov't tbh. It's looking terminal for the Tories though. Annihilation awaits at the next GE if this carries on with Farage either PM or LOTO.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,288
    When did the pitch at Lords turn into a minefield?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,688
    BBC reporting the story about the survivor of the plane crash. Not sure I'd be doing that unless they are absolutely certain it's true.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,313
    edited June 12

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    Isn't this Goodwin's shower? Haven't they previously been censured by BPC, or am I thinking of someone else?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,303

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    Isn't this Goodwin's shower? He's rolling the pitch for a big uptick for Reform on the next outing. Haven't they previously been censured by BPC, or am I thinking of someone else?
    No that was People Polling. FoN are generally a bit more favourable in vote share to Reform and the worst for Tories but they were the most accurate Mayoralty pollsters - slightly overstating Reform by 2 or 3 points though
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,313

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    Isn't this Goodwin's shower? He's rolling the pitch for a big uptick for Reform on the next outing. Haven't they previously been censured by BPC, or am I thinking of someone else?
    No that was People Polling. FoN are generally a bit more favourable in vote share to Reform and the worst for Tories but they were the most accurate Mayoralty pollsters - slightly overstating Reform by 2 or 3 points though
    Apologies to Mr Goodwin in that case.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,606
    Pulpstar said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    6 pts down from the top dog party at this point in a parliament is OK for the gov't tbh. It's looking terminal for the Tories though. Annihilation awaits at the next GE if this carries on with Farage either PM or LOTO.
    He'll be the whole cabinet or shadow cabinet. I don't see how Reform graduates from a one-man-band into a proper political party.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,303
    edited June 12
    Pulpstar said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    6 pts down from the top dog party at this point in a parliament is OK for the gov't tbh. It's looking terminal for the Tories though. Annihilation awaits at the next GE if this carries on with Farage either PM or LOTO.
    The Tories are from equal with to 8 points behind Labour and around an average of 10 behind Reform. They were in much worse shape from Sept 2022 till the GE averaging over 20 points behind and not once getting within 10.
    'Terminal' is ott at this stage whilst most people are switched off
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,626
    Just following up this question fpt:

    Thou shalt not kill; but need'st not strive officiously to keep alive. [The Latest Decalogue; Arthur Hugh Clough (1819 - 1861).] It's a parody of the Ten Commandments and I don't know whether he meant one ought indeed strive officiously to keep alive; but to me it seems ethical not so to strive.


    Clough is frequently misunderstood. His 'Latest decalogue' was intended as an observation on modernity and its casuistry towards moral norms. Hence for example:

    Thou shalt not steal; an empty feat,
    When it's so lucrative to cheat:


    So Clough intended the opposite of how he is now understood. (Though in the killing one I think he is mostly wrong! He's OK with the rest SFAICS).

    Full text here:
    https://allpoetry.com/The-Latest-Decalogue
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,816
    CatMan said:

    When did the pitch at Lords turn into a minefield?

    Since a group of robots from the planet Krikkit landed in s spacecraft in the middle of a match?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,691

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,038
    Looks like the BBC has spoken to a cousin of the survivor, who has verified his identity.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,303
    edited June 12
    tlg86 said:

    BBC reporting the story about the survivor of the plane crash. Not sure I'd be doing that unless they are absolutely certain it's true.

    The chairman of tata (air india's parent) has already announced £86000 per family compensation. So if you happen to find a ticket floating down the street and are an accomplished liar...
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,522

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
    The politics Reform play doesn’t attract serious and competent.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,688

    Looks like the BBC has spoken to a cousin of the survivor, who has verified his identity.

    Did they verify the identity of the cousin? Feels very quick to be confirming this sort of thing.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,038
    carnforth said:

    tlg86 said:

    BBC reporting the story about the survivor of the plane crash. Not sure I'd be doing that unless they are absolutely certain it's true.

    The chairman of tata (air india's parent) has already announced £86000 per family compensation. So if you happen to find a ticket floating down the street and are an accomplished liar...
    Sky News erroneously reported the figure as £8,600 as they didn't know what a Crore is.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,691

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
    The politics Reform play doesn’t attract serious and competent.
    Didn't we used to have a party on the right that did attract serious and competent? What were they called... the Gazebo Party? The Orangery Party? The Belvedere Party? Something like that...
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,606
    algarkirk said:

    Just following up this question fpt:

    Thou shalt not kill; but need'st not strive officiously to keep alive. [The Latest Decalogue; Arthur Hugh Clough (1819 - 1861).] It's a parody of the Ten Commandments and I don't know whether he meant one ought indeed strive officiously to keep alive; but to me it seems ethical not so to strive.


    Clough is frequently misunderstood. His 'Latest decalogue' was intended as an observation on modernity and its casuistry towards moral norms. Hence for example:

    Thou shalt not steal; an empty feat,
    When it's so lucrative to cheat:


    So Clough intended the opposite of how he is now understood. (Though in the killing one I think he is mostly wrong! He's OK with the rest SFAICS).

    Full text here:
    https://allpoetry.com/The-Latest-Decalogue

    Thanks for this. Possibly, given his dates, what he was critiquing by that need not strive officiously to keep alive was people justifying refusal to simply make an effort. With today's resources, we can keep alive in an entirely different way.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,626

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
    There is nothing specially right wing about Reform's current trajectory; populist centrist high spending nationalist is the clear message now. Ask yourself what the voters of Clacton want in the way of free stuff and the rest follows inescapably.

    Having said that they will get serious and competent people - by the standards now prevailing - as and if they get closer to the possibility of real power. Tim Montgomerie is not an outlier but an advance guard.

    The longer Kemi stays on as LOTO, the closer it will get. If Hunt became leader the Tories have a chance of being serious. If a Jenrick type gets it, all bets are off.

    The chances as of now is that top of the bill in the next election is Lab v Reform.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,891

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
    The politics Reform play doesn’t attract serious and competent.
    Didn't we used to have a party on the right that did attract serious and competent? What were they called... the Gazebo Party? The Orangery Party? The Belvedere Party? Something like that...
    Not for thirty years or so.

    But then, serious people are rare, in politics, these days.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,626
    edited June 12
    AnneJGP said:

    algarkirk said:

    Just following up this question fpt:

    Thou shalt not kill; but need'st not strive officiously to keep alive. [The Latest Decalogue; Arthur Hugh Clough (1819 - 1861).] It's a parody of the Ten Commandments and I don't know whether he meant one ought indeed strive officiously to keep alive; but to me it seems ethical not so to strive.


    Clough is frequently misunderstood. His 'Latest decalogue' was intended as an observation on modernity and its casuistry towards moral norms. Hence for example:

    Thou shalt not steal; an empty feat,
    When it's so lucrative to cheat:


    So Clough intended the opposite of how he is now understood. (Though in the killing one I think he is mostly wrong! He's OK with the rest SFAICS).

    Full text here:
    https://allpoetry.com/The-Latest-Decalogue

    Thanks for this. Possibly, given his dates, what he was critiquing by that need not strive officiously to keep alive was people justifying refusal to simply make an effort. With today's resources, we can keep alive in an entirely different way.
    Agree. Modern abilities requires, IMHO, assisted dying, and in my view AD that goes rather further than the current bill. Footnote: Clough is a very boring poet.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,696

    Looks like the BBC has spoken to a cousin of the survivor, who has verified his identity.

    Seat 11A; amazing.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,175

    AnneJGP said:

    I couldn't hear his response but what is a giant of broadcasting doing, asking the chairman of an up and coming political party whether he believes in ghosts? Is that the most pressing issue of the day?

    He used to present Most Haunted Live
    Indeed: and the story is not a new one. It's been doing the rounds for years (if you should be foolish wnough to hang around the right Reddit forums). So, Richard Madely was asking the question because he knew it would elicit the anecdote. And I wouldnt be surprised if Richard had the whole "hanged" gag ready too.

    This does mean, however, that it will be very hard to Reform and the modern Republican Party will find it difficult to work together. I mean, his attitude is the complete opposite of Senator Ernst's "we're all going to die and the tooth fairy isnt real" one.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,792
    Oh, no, that would be a tragedy...

    @thetimes

    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: Trump’s birthday parade may be cancelled over thunderstorms

    Army spokesman tells The Times of safety fears as president hopes to mark 250 years of the US military with event in Washington on Saturday
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,175
    rcs1000 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    I couldn't hear his response but what is a giant of broadcasting doing, asking the chairman of an up and coming political party whether he believes in ghosts? Is that the most pressing issue of the day?

    He used to present Most Haunted Live
    Indeed: and the story is not a new one. It's been doing the rounds for years (if you should be foolish wnough to hang around the right Reddit forums). So, Richard Madely was asking the question because he knew it would elicit the anecdote. And I wouldnt be surprised if Richard had the whole "hanged" gag ready too.

    This does mean, however, that it will be very hard to Reform and the modern Republican Party will find it difficult to work together. I mean, his attitude is the complete opposite of Senator Ernst's "we're all going to die and the tooth fairy isnt real" one.
    Although, of course, it's entirely possible that Ms Ernst is no longer a Senator come 2029 when Reform takes power.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,686

    State dept have cancelled a press conference amidst the tension in the ME. Eyes on Iran!

    Yawn. 🌮
    Probably and hopefully. But he might just fancy some dramatic good-for-ratings military action against a soft target. Neither Israel nor his Gulf mates would object.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,175
    algarkirk said:

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
    There is nothing specially right wing about Reform's current trajectory; populist centrist high spending nationalist is the clear message now. Ask yourself what the voters of Clacton want in the way of free stuff and the rest follows inescapably.

    Having said that they will get serious and competent people - by the standards now prevailing - as and if they get closer to the possibility of real power. Tim Montgomerie is not an outlier but an advance guard.

    The longer Kemi stays on as LOTO, the closer it will get. If Hunt became leader the Tories have a chance of being serious. If a Jenrick type gets it, all bets are off.

    The chances as of now is that top of the bill in the next election is Lab v Reform.
    Indeed: in the US, the Republican Party which - which just a few weeks ago was looking to reduce the Federal budget deficit - is now all in favour of a budget that massively increases it.

    Free sweeties is a powerful electoral message. It's just that it's economically ruinous in the long run. (See America, South.)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,574
    edited June 12
    Just looked at the news for the first time today and can't believe the reports about the Dreamliner. How is it possible for one of those planes to crash?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,175
    Sean_F said:

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
    The politics Reform play doesn’t attract serious and competent.
    Didn't we used to have a party on the right that did attract serious and competent? What were they called... the Gazebo Party? The Orangery Party? The Belvedere Party? Something like that...
    Not for thirty years or so.

    But then, serious people are rare, in politics, these days.
    Reality is the blob trying to prevent you from getting free sweeties.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,606
    IanB2 said:

    Looks like the BBC has spoken to a cousin of the survivor, who has verified his identity.

    Seat 11A; amazing.
    What was so special about seat 11A, one wonders?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,576
    kinabalu said:

    State dept have cancelled a press conference amidst the tension in the ME. Eyes on Iran!

    Yawn. 🌮
    Probably and hopefully. But he might just fancy some dramatic good-for-ratings military action against a soft target. Neither Israel nor his Gulf mates would object.
    You missed the word "not" after the word hopefully.

    If we want anyone to take out the Mullahs its going to have to be the Israelis unfortunately.

    TACO Trump won't do it.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,542
    Scott_xP said:

    Oh, no, that would be a tragedy...

    @thetimes

    🔺 EXCLUSIVE: Trump’s birthday parade may be cancelled over thunderstorms

    Army spokesman tells The Times of safety fears as president hopes to mark 250 years of the US military with event in Washington on Saturday

    Thunderstorms? It is not an act of God that Trumplestiteskin needs to worry about!

    Rather it is that quite a lot of people with guns now want him put away. If I were responsible for his safety I would be very unhappy about putting him in front of so many folk with a potential grudge.

    Obviously if the Cheeto faced crook was struck by lightening, it would be both hilarious and also proof that the Lord will not be mocked.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,606
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
    The politics Reform play doesn’t attract serious and competent.
    Didn't we used to have a party on the right that did attract serious and competent? What were they called... the Gazebo Party? The Orangery Party? The Belvedere Party? Something like that...
    Not for thirty years or so.

    But then, serious people are rare, in politics, these days.
    Reality is the blob trying to prevent you from getting free sweeties.
    Not so much a need to elect a new population as a need to restrict the voting power of those who only take the free sweeties and don't pay anything towards them.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,175
    Andy_JS said:

    Just looked at the news for the first time today and can't believe the reports about the Dreamliner. How is it possible for one of those planes to crash?

    Watching the video, I found myself shouting at the screen: put the nose down you idiot. Those engines don't have enough power to push the plane upwards on their own, they need forward motion. And it looks like they were trying to avoid crashing by pulling back on the yoke, making the angle of attack ever steeper, and slowing the plane down more.

    Of course, I might be wrong, but it reminds me of the airshow crash of the Airbus back in the 1980s, when a pilot was demonstrating the ability of the aircraft to maintain unusual attitudes via the fly by wire system. Only to crash into a forest.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,686
    rcs1000 said:

    Last thing from me before I do some work: I see Elon has taken the knee.

    He didn't really have a lot of choice: there was no way back with Democratic voters, and SpaceX is incredibly dependent on the government for its contracts. Like many of the oligarchs in Putin's Russia, it became suddenly very clear to Elon that his only choice was to go in to bat for a government that is no longer pretending to be fiscally conservative or to reduce the deficit.

    What a sad decline.

    I tend to feel sorry for people screwed over by Donald Trump. But not so much in this case.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,542
    Pulpstar said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    6 pts down from the top dog party at this point in a parliament is OK for the gov't tbh. It's looking terminal for the Tories though. Annihilation awaits at the next GE if this carries on with Farage either PM or LOTO.
    The value bet would be Ed Davey as LOTO
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,574
    Hugo Rifkind has written an article in today's Times essentially saying the same thing that I was saying around 18 months ago about ChatGPT and other AI models — that they often produce a lot of rubbish information. The examples I was giving back then were about election results.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,659
    Cicero said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    6 pts down from the top dog party at this point in a parliament is OK for the gov't tbh. It's looking terminal for the Tories though. Annihilation awaits at the next GE if this carries on with Farage either PM or LOTO.
    The value bet would be Ed Davey as LOTO
    He ticks a lot of boxes as the true national populist candidate and he's not afraid of using his dog whistle.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,303
    Cicero said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    6 pts down from the top dog party at this point in a parliament is OK for the gov't tbh. It's looking terminal for the Tories though. Annihilation awaits at the next GE if this carries on with Farage either PM or LOTO.
    The value bet would be Ed Davey as LOTO
    Id want to see them actually adding substantially to their 2024 polling before that would be remotely attractive. They are almost non existent in the Midlands, North and Wales, so I can't see the path to opposition as it stands
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,688
    edited June 12

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
    Right now the Country needs serious and competent people unlike Starmer snd Reeves

    Indeed I cannot see any politician that could deal with the hard decisions needed
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,688
    Cicero said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    6 pts down from the top dog party at this point in a parliament is OK for the gov't tbh. It's looking terminal for the Tories though. Annihilation awaits at the next GE if this carries on with Farage either PM or LOTO.
    The value bet would be Ed Davey as LOTO
    Who ?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,606
    Andy_JS said:

    Just looked at the news for the first time today and can't believe the reports about the Dreamliner. How is it possible for one of those planes to crash?

    In a similar way to the Titanic being unsinkable, I suppose.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,688

    Cicero said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    6 pts down from the top dog party at this point in a parliament is OK for the gov't tbh. It's looking terminal for the Tories though. Annihilation awaits at the next GE if this carries on with Farage either PM or LOTO.
    The value bet would be Ed Davey as LOTO
    Id want to see them actually adding substantially to their 2024 polling before that would be remotely attractive. They are almost non existent in the Midlands, North and Wales, so I can't see the path to opposition as it stands
    That's why I said who
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,792
    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Last thing from me before I do some work: I see Elon has taken the knee.

    He didn't really have a lot of choice: there was no way back with Democratic voters, and SpaceX is incredibly dependent on the government for its contracts. Like many of the oligarchs in Putin's Russia, it became suddenly very clear to Elon that his only choice was to go in to bat for a government that is no longer pretending to be fiscally conservative or to reduce the deficit.

    What a sad decline.

    I tend to feel sorry for people screwed over by Donald Trump. But not so much in this case.
    Elon strikes again

    https://bsky.app/profile/drtiffanyaflowers.bsky.social/post/3lre7ryla7c2x
  • isamisam Posts: 42,001
    Three girls admit killing pensioner, 75, in street attack in London

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/crime/teenagers-killing-pensioner-street-attack/
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,820
    edited June 12
    Good news!
    Star Trek Strange New Worlds has been renewed for a fifth season!
    Yay!

    Bad news!
    The fifth season will be its last!
    Boo!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLaL2oi0Gog
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,606

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
    Right now the Country needs serious and competent people unlike Starmer snd Reeves

    Indeed I cannot see any politician that could deal with the hard decisions needed
    Seems to me it's not just the politicians that we're lacking but the ideas. Even if all the political parties were to come together to form a government of national interest, could any of the present lot deal with those decisions adequately? (Sounds a bit like a fantasy football team.)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,691
    algarkirk said:

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
    There is nothing specially right wing about Reform's current trajectory; populist centrist high spending nationalist is the clear message now. Ask yourself what the voters of Clacton want in the way of free stuff and the rest follows inescapably.

    Having said that they will get serious and competent people - by the standards now prevailing - as and if they get closer to the possibility of real power. Tim Montgomerie is not an outlier but an advance guard.

    The longer Kemi stays on as LOTO, the closer it will get. If Hunt became leader the Tories have a chance of being serious. If a Jenrick type gets it, all bets are off.

    The chances as of now is that top of the bill in the next election is Lab v Reform.
    As we've discussed before, I don't accept your thesis that Reform UK's trajectory is not right wing. You achieve that conclusion in a number of ways. Firstly, you say their anti-immigrant stance does not count as being right wing these days, but I think that's contentious. Nativism remains mostly connected to the right, even if there are a few examples of left-wing parties also going anti-immigrant. (You've mentioned the Danish Social Democrats, but I think there are significant differences between their approach and the usual populist right position seen with Reform UK.)

    Reform UK have come out with a number of high-spending pledges and some nods to state intervention that would please a Labour Party member from 1981. However, that's a selective reading of the party. They also push "DOGE-style" cuts, rail against "woke" social liberalism, and want to move the NHS to an insurance model (which would be a huge reduction in the size of the state). This is all small state stuff. They oppose net zero and dabble in climate change denial, and in anti-vax nonsense. They don't want to open coal mines because they're left-wing; they want to open coal mines to own the libs and out of some sort of 1950s fantasy idea of the country. They are a fairly typical populist right party. They are MAGA wrapped in a Union Jack; Farage's love for Trump is explicit. The other obvious comparison after Trump is Pierre Poujade.

    It is also telling where Reform UK members are coming from. They are coming from the Conservative Party mostly, with a smattering coming from a lot further right.

    So, yes, Reform UK are on the right. They may accept some of the post-war consensus that you label as centrism. They may make unachievable spending promises to the voters of Clacton. But they are not centrists. They are right-wingers, some conservative, some small state, some Poujadist, some reactionary, some nationalist.

    As for whether they will attract serious and competent people... well, one Tim Montgomerie doesn't make a summer. Again, let us look at Trump. Trump attracted some serious and competent people, who either soon fell out with him or (e.g. Rubio, arguably Vance) abandoned all their seriousness and competence in favour of bending the knee.

    I think the next election may well be Lab v Reform, but I don't expect Reform to be serious or competent. They will be offering fantasy spending plans and grievance politics, like Trump did.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,686

    kinabalu said:

    State dept have cancelled a press conference amidst the tension in the ME. Eyes on Iran!

    Yawn. 🌮
    Probably and hopefully. But he might just fancy some dramatic good-for-ratings military action against a soft target. Neither Israel nor his Gulf mates would object.
    You missed the word "not" after the word hopefully.

    If we want anyone to take out the Mullahs its going to have to be the Israelis unfortunately.

    TACO Trump won't do it.
    Ah, rooting for some more unprovoked military action in that bastion of stability, the Middle East, are we?

    Well as I say I think there's a decent chance, TACO notwithstanding, that you'll get it. 30% let's say.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,575

    Cicero said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    6 pts down from the top dog party at this point in a parliament is OK for the gov't tbh. It's looking terminal for the Tories though. Annihilation awaits at the next GE if this carries on with Farage either PM or LOTO.
    The value bet would be Ed Davey as LOTO
    Id want to see them actually adding substantially to their 2024 polling before that would be remotely attractive. They are almost non existent in the Midlands, North and Wales, so I can't see the path to opposition as it stands
    If I squint, I can see how the Lib Dems get to 90 seats: hold what they have, get some inner city strongholds back (Cambridge, Bermondsey, Haringey, Cardiff Central) take the seats where they are close behind the Tories even if third ( Romsey, North Dorset, Hamble Valley, N Cotswolds, Hinckley etc)

    But I then look at how they get to 100, or 110, or 120, and I can't even imagine what the seats they'd need to win would be. Maybe look for a by-election to win and hold somewhere unexpected? If the Lib Dems can't break into areas they've had little strength in since ever, they aren't ever going to get to 100 seats. And I don't see anything in polling or local results that suggests that sort of breakthrough.

    So you'd need a complete landslide for Labour or Reform, to get the Lib Dems coming second. And that just doesn't ring true for the moment, with polarised and split voting all around.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,688

    algarkirk said:

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
    There is nothing specially right wing about Reform's current trajectory; populist centrist high spending nationalist is the clear message now. Ask yourself what the voters of Clacton want in the way of free stuff and the rest follows inescapably.

    Having said that they will get serious and competent people - by the standards now prevailing - as and if they get closer to the possibility of real power. Tim Montgomerie is not an outlier but an advance guard.

    The longer Kemi stays on as LOTO, the closer it will get. If Hunt became leader the Tories have a chance of being serious. If a Jenrick type gets it, all bets are off.

    The chances as of now is that top of the bill in the next election is Lab v Reform.
    As we've discussed before, I don't accept your thesis that Reform UK's trajectory is not right wing. You achieve that conclusion in a number of ways. Firstly, you say their anti-immigrant stance does not count as being right wing these days, but I think that's contentious. Nativism remains mostly connected to the right, even if there are a few examples of left-wing parties also going anti-immigrant. (You've mentioned the Danish Social Democrats, but I think there are significant differences between their approach and the usual populist right position seen with Reform UK.)

    Reform UK have come out with a number of high-spending pledges and some nods to state intervention that would please a Labour Party member from 1981. However, that's a selective reading of the party. They also push "DOGE-style" cuts, rail against "woke" social liberalism, and want to move the NHS to an insurance model (which would be a huge reduction in the size of the state). This is all small state stuff. They oppose net zero and dabble in climate change denial, and in anti-vax nonsense. They don't want to open coal mines because they're left-wing; they want to open coal mines to own the libs and out of some sort of 1950s fantasy idea of the country. They are a fairly typical populist right party. They are MAGA wrapped in a Union Jack; Farage's love for Trump is explicit. The other obvious comparison after Trump is Pierre Poujade.

    It is also telling where Reform UK members are coming from. They are coming from the Conservative Party mostly, with a smattering coming from a lot further right.

    So, yes, Reform UK are on the right. They may accept some of the post-war consensus that you label as centrism. They may make unachievable spending promises to the voters of Clacton. But they are not centrists. They are right-wingers, some conservative, some small state, some Poujadist, some reactionary, some nationalist.

    As for whether they will attract serious and competent people... well, one Tim Montgomerie doesn't make a summer. Again, let us look at Trump. Trump attracted some serious and competent people, who either soon fell out with him or (e.g. Rubio, arguably Vance) abandoned all their seriousness and competence in favour of bending the knee.

    I think the next election may well be Lab v Reform, but I don't expect Reform to be serious or competent. They will be offering fantasy spending plans and grievance politics, like Trump did.
    Fantasy spending plans as Reeves announced yesterday?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,336

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    Isn't this Goodwin's shower? He's rolling the pitch for a big uptick for Reform on the next outing. Haven't they previously been censured by BPC, or am I thinking of someone else?
    No that was People Polling. FoN are generally a bit more favourable in vote share to Reform and the worst for Tories but they were the most accurate Mayoralty pollsters - slightly overstating Reform by 2 or 3 points though
    There has only ever been one opinion poll that reported a lower vote share for the Tories than the 16% with FoN above (though this is the seventh time recently they have landed on 16 so unless something changes, random sampling will drop them a lower one at some point). That worst-ever poll was 14, with People Polling at the nadir of Truss's premiership.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,574

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    Reform never averaged more than 30.5% in the polling average, so to say they're off their peak with 30% is pushing things a bit.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,696
    edited June 12
    AnneJGP said:

    IanB2 said:

    Looks like the BBC has spoken to a cousin of the survivor, who has verified his identity.

    Seat 11A; amazing.
    What was so special about seat 11A, one wonders?
    It’s a window seat. My guess is that that’s where the plane fuselage broke, when it hit the ground, and the guy was thrown out through the crack before the whole thing went up in flames.

    Maybe he had already released his seatbelt, or maybe the seat was thrown out with him? Possibly doing the first saved his life. Everyone else would still have been strapped to the exploding plane.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,792
    @BarakRavid

    🚨Scoop: White House envoy Steve Witkoff privately warned top Senate Republicans that Iran's retaliation to an Israeli strike on its nuclear program could overwhelm Israel's defenses and cause mass damage and casualties. My story on
    @axios

    https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1933196075135062164
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,303
    tpfkar said:

    Cicero said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    6 pts down from the top dog party at this point in a parliament is OK for the gov't tbh. It's looking terminal for the Tories though. Annihilation awaits at the next GE if this carries on with Farage either PM or LOTO.
    The value bet would be Ed Davey as LOTO
    Id want to see them actually adding substantially to their 2024 polling before that would be remotely attractive. They are almost non existent in the Midlands, North and Wales, so I can't see the path to opposition as it stands
    If I squint, I can see how the Lib Dems get to 90 seats: hold what they have, get some inner city strongholds back (Cambridge, Bermondsey, Haringey, Cardiff Central) take the seats where they are close behind the Tories even if third ( Romsey, North Dorset, Hamble Valley, N Cotswolds, Hinckley etc)

    But I then look at how they get to 100, or 110, or 120, and I can't even imagine what the seats they'd need to win would be. Maybe look for a by-election to win and hold somewhere unexpected? If the Lib Dems can't break into areas they've had little strength in since ever, they aren't ever going to get to 100 seats. And I don't see anything in polling or local results that suggests that sort of breakthrough.

    So you'd need a complete landslide for Labour or Reform, to get the Lib Dems coming second. And that just doesn't ring true for the moment, with polarised and split voting all around.
    And they've got to hold on to the extremely efficient voting that got them 72 seats last time. I can see them losing a dozen seats even at 15% nationally. Unless Labour completely collapse they just won't have the 'numbers', and if it becomes a Reform Labour scrap or a tight Lab Con fight they will get squeezed
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,576
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    State dept have cancelled a press conference amidst the tension in the ME. Eyes on Iran!

    Yawn. 🌮
    Probably and hopefully. But he might just fancy some dramatic good-for-ratings military action against a soft target. Neither Israel nor his Gulf mates would object.
    You missed the word "not" after the word hopefully.

    If we want anyone to take out the Mullahs its going to have to be the Israelis unfortunately.

    TACO Trump won't do it.
    Ah, rooting for some more unprovoked military action in that bastion of stability, the Middle East, are we?

    Well as I say I think there's a decent chance, TACO notwithstanding, that you'll get it. 30% let's say.
    Unprovoked.

    Unprovoked?

    Unprovoked!?

    LOL kinabalu that was a good one, you literally made me laugh out loud at that one.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,816
    viewcode said:

    Good news!
    Star Trek Strange New Worlds has been renewed for a fifth season!
    Yay!

    Bad news!
    The fifth season will be its last!
    Boo!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLaL2oi0Gog

    Actually, I wouldn't see that as bad news. It means they've got the opportunity to sort out and nicely end all plotlines in a good manner. So many series end on a cliffhanger that never gets resolved. Sometimes, later, they do - Farscape did with the film "The Peacekeeper Wars". Or, like Babylon 5, they hurriedly wrap up the plots to end early, and then get an extension for another season.

    (Guilty secret: I actually quite liked Series 5 of B5. It's not as good as if they'd stretched the fourth season over the fifth, but I quite liked what they did with it.)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,303
    edited June 12

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    Isn't this Goodwin's shower? He's rolling the pitch for a big uptick for Reform on the next outing. Haven't they previously been censured by BPC, or am I thinking of someone else?
    No that was People Polling. FoN are generally a bit more favourable in vote share to Reform and the worst for Tories but they were the most accurate Mayoralty pollsters - slightly overstating Reform by 2 or 3 points though
    There has only ever been one opinion poll that reported a lower vote share for the Tories than the 16% with FoN above (though this is the seventh time recently they have landed on 16 so unless something changes, random sampling will drop them a lower one at some point). That worst-ever poll was 14, with People Polling at the nadir of Truss's premiership.
    They got a 15 in the election campaign too.
    Labour are also hovering just above their lowest ever polling
    That's a feature of 5 party polling. 25% now is 35% plus two years ago. The days of winning seats with 35,000 votes and 70% are gone
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,218
    Can't say I'm massively surprised.

    Massive scandal in Hungary 🇭🇺
    Georg Spöttle, Orban's "best pundit" who has been influencing public opinion for years now, turned out to be a foreign agent (ruzzia), and his handler is colonel Oleg Smirnov (GRU)

    The Orban-regime is not commenting so far!

    https://x.com/SzabadonMagyar/status/1933067247511113743

    Now do Tulsi Gabbard.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,303
    Andy_JS said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    Reform never averaged more than 30.5% in the polling average, so to say they're off their peak with 30% is pushing things a bit.
    Maybe, yes. Plateaued then
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,574
    P Prune usually has the best commentary on aircraft incidents and accidents.

    https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/666472-plane-crash-near-ahmedabad.html
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,678

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
    Yes, sadly they have yet to find their Starmer and Reeves.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 859
    tpfkar said:

    Cicero said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    6 pts down from the top dog party at this point in a parliament is OK for the gov't tbh. It's looking terminal for the Tories though. Annihilation awaits at the next GE if this carries on with Farage either PM or LOTO.
    The value bet would be Ed Davey as LOTO
    Id want to see them actually adding substantially to their 2024 polling before that would be remotely attractive. They are almost non existent in the Midlands, North and Wales, so I can't see the path to opposition as it stands
    If I squint, I can see how the Lib Dems get to 90 seats: hold what they have, get some inner city strongholds back (Cambridge, Bermondsey, Haringey, Cardiff Central) take the seats where they are close behind the Tories even if third ( Romsey, North Dorset, Hamble Valley, N Cotswolds, Hinckley etc)

    But I then look at how they get to 100, or 110, or 120, and I can't even imagine what the seats they'd need to win would be. Maybe look for a by-election to win and hold somewhere unexpected? If the Lib Dems can't break into areas they've had little strength in since ever, they aren't ever going to get to 100 seats. And I don't see anything in polling or local results that suggests that sort of breakthrough.

    So you'd need a complete landslide for Labour or Reform, to get the Lib Dems coming second. And that just doesn't ring true for the moment, with polarised and split voting all around.
    I think the same. You could add on a few more seats where local government strength hasn't shown up in a GE yet but might project them from nowhere into first place on 35% of the vote but there are only a few of those too. (Hull?)

    So I can see the same outcome as 1983 but from a higher base - even on 28% I'd be surprised if they won more than 120 seats. But at 35% they probably win 500.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,218
    That boat already sailed.
    Though he has a point.

    OK, even the existence of this programme review is going to force the UK to re-examine our reliance on the USA.

    Remember: AUKUS is a TREATY ratified by three legislature, it's not an idle MoU (like F-35) - it's about the worth of a country.

    https://x.com/FTusa284/status/1933066549163708431
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,574
    Nigelb said:

    Can't say I'm massively surprised.

    Massive scandal in Hungary 🇭🇺
    Georg Spöttle, Orban's "best pundit" who has been influencing public opinion for years now, turned out to be a foreign agent (ruzzia), and his handler is colonel Oleg Smirnov (GRU)

    The Orban-regime is not commenting so far!

    https://x.com/SzabadonMagyar/status/1933067247511113743

    Now do Tulsi Gabbard.

    Is this a reliable twitter account?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,303

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
    Right now the Country needs serious and competent people unlike Starmer snd Reeves

    Indeed I cannot see any politician that could deal with the hard decisions needed
    Starmer and Reeves are serious politicians who are at least trying to do the best job they can. You just don’t like them.

    They are light years more serious than Kemi and Farage
    Because you don't like Kemi and Farage. It's a circular argument.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,336

    tpfkar said:

    Cicero said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    6 pts down from the top dog party at this point in a parliament is OK for the gov't tbh. It's looking terminal for the Tories though. Annihilation awaits at the next GE if this carries on with Farage either PM or LOTO.
    The value bet would be Ed Davey as LOTO
    Id want to see them actually adding substantially to their 2024 polling before that would be remotely attractive. They are almost non existent in the Midlands, North and Wales, so I can't see the path to opposition as it stands
    If I squint, I can see how the Lib Dems get to 90 seats: hold what they have, get some inner city strongholds back (Cambridge, Bermondsey, Haringey, Cardiff Central) take the seats where they are close behind the Tories even if third ( Romsey, North Dorset, Hamble Valley, N Cotswolds, Hinckley etc)

    But I then look at how they get to 100, or 110, or 120, and I can't even imagine what the seats they'd need to win would be. Maybe look for a by-election to win and hold somewhere unexpected? If the Lib Dems can't break into areas they've had little strength in since ever, they aren't ever going to get to 100 seats. And I don't see anything in polling or local results that suggests that sort of breakthrough.

    So you'd need a complete landslide for Labour or Reform, to get the Lib Dems coming second. And that just doesn't ring true for the moment, with polarised and split voting all around.
    And they've got to hold on to the extremely efficient voting that got them 72 seats last time. I can see them losing a dozen seats even at 15% nationally. Unless Labour completely collapse they just won't have the 'numbers', and if it becomes a Reform Labour scrap or a tight Lab Con fight they will get squeezed
    This is the argument I've had with several Lib Demmers who proudly boast 'but, 72 MPs', and compare it with Reform's 5 off more votes. Leaving aside the principle of PR, I agree that if you're looking to maximise representation for a party in the mid-teens then the 2024 strategy worked fine (though still relies on tactical voting, which came a bit unstuck in the past in 2010, never mind 2015).

    But it also puts the sweet spot at about 72 MPs. The vote spread becomes increasingly inefficient thereafter as you go up, whereas although Reform hit breakthrough at a higher level, once they're there, the seats come flooding in. So the question is: what's the limit of your ambition. Do you see your ceiling as a largish third party or do you aspire to lead a government?

    On the other hand, the Lib Dems are being quite distinct from all the other three parties at the moment. unfortunately, they're not getting as much media coverage as they should be - particularly with something to say that the others aren't, whether on social care or Trump, Europe and foreign affairs. The comms team needs to be knocking harder on media doors.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,513
    @BartholomewRoberts the US wont strike Iran they will get Israel to do their dirty work so Trump can pretend he isn’t starting a new war in the middle east
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,816
    A while back, I heard a longform interview with an ex-MD of one of an airline (United AIrlines, I think). He said he had a folder that contained information on what to do if there was a serious plane crash involving his airline. It contained things like contact numbers for people on his team who would do certain things; people in the US and other governments / FAA, heads of departments etc. It also contained scripted lines written in his voice (i.e. using the sort of words he would use) if he had to do an interview before he had been fully briefed.

    He said he had a copy in his bedside cabinet at home, one in his office, one in his travel bag, etc. He also said he felt an enormous relief when he ended his time in charge at the company and could shred the lot, without them having been used.

    Nowadays, it's all probably online...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,218
    On topic, "fruitcakes and nutters" was one of Cameron's better pieces of analysis.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,513

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
    Right now the Country needs serious and competent people unlike Starmer snd Reeves

    Indeed I cannot see any politician that could deal with the hard decisions needed
    Starmer and Reeves are serious politicians who are at least trying to do the best job they can. You just don’t like them.

    They are light years more serious than Kemi and Farage
    Because you don't like Kemi and Farage. It's a circular argument.
    Not really. Farage is objectively promising a platform that isn’t deliverable. It’s Brexit all over again

    Kemi is just talking to herself
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,336

    @BartholomewRoberts the US wont strike Iran they will get Israel to do their dirty work so Trump can pretend he isn’t starting a new war in the middle east

    To be fair, preventing Iran from getting nukes isn't dirty work.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,576

    @BartholomewRoberts the US wont strike Iran they will get Israel to do their dirty work so Trump can pretend he isn’t starting a new war in the middle east

    And because TACO Trump is too chickenshit to do it himself.

    Hopefully Israel are not.

    Will noone rid us of these turbulent Mullahs?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,931
    IanB2 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    IanB2 said:

    Looks like the BBC has spoken to a cousin of the survivor, who has verified his identity.

    Seat 11A; amazing.
    What was so special about seat 11A, one wonders?
    It’s a window seat. My guess is that that’s where the plane fuselage broke, when it hit the ground, and the guy was thrown out through the crack before the whole thing went up in flames.

    Maybe he had already released his seatbelt, or maybe the seat was thrown out with him? Possibly doing the first saved his life. Everyone else would still have been strapped to the exploding plane.
    I think it's the Port side seat immediately by the door, at the very front of coach class. Perhaps that's where the hull broke.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,513

    @BartholomewRoberts the US wont strike Iran they will get Israel to do their dirty work so Trump can pretend he isn’t starting a new war in the middle east

    And because TACO Trump is too chickenshit to do it himself.

    Hopefully Israel are not.

    Will noone rid us of these turbulent Mullahs?
    And more Israelis and Iranians will die
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,686

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    State dept have cancelled a press conference amidst the tension in the ME. Eyes on Iran!

    Yawn. 🌮
    Probably and hopefully. But he might just fancy some dramatic good-for-ratings military action against a soft target. Neither Israel nor his Gulf mates would object.
    You missed the word "not" after the word hopefully.

    If we want anyone to take out the Mullahs its going to have to be the Israelis unfortunately.

    TACO Trump won't do it.
    Ah, rooting for some more unprovoked military action in that bastion of stability, the Middle East, are we?

    Well as I say I think there's a decent chance, TACO notwithstanding, that you'll get it. 30% let's say.
    Unprovoked.

    Unprovoked?

    Unprovoked!?

    LOL kinabalu that was a good one, you literally made me laugh out loud at that one.
    Iran has bombed the US?

    Sorry, missed that. My bad.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,303

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
    Right now the Country needs serious and competent people unlike Starmer snd Reeves

    Indeed I cannot see any politician that could deal with the hard decisions needed
    Starmer and Reeves are serious politicians who are at least trying to do the best job they can. You just don’t like them.

    They are light years more serious than Kemi and Farage
    Because you don't like Kemi and Farage. It's a circular argument.
    Not really. Farage is objectively promising a platform that isn’t deliverable. It’s Brexit all over again

    Kemi is just talking to herself
    This is opinion, not fact.
    They are all pretty useless in my opinion, but that's not objective, its opinion
    There is nothing objectively more 'serious' about Starmer than the LOTO
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,513
    Iran want nuclear weapons so they don’t get Ukrained. Can’t say I blame them.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,336

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 30% (-1)
    LAB: 24% (+2)
    CON: 16% (=)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    GRN: 11% (=)

    Via @FindoutnowUK, 11 Jun.
    Changes w/ 4 Jun.

    Reform now definitely off their post LE highs and some sign of a minor Lab recovery in the works.
    Tories at 16 with FoN for 5 weeks

    Isn't this Goodwin's shower? He's rolling the pitch for a big uptick for Reform on the next outing. Haven't they previously been censured by BPC, or am I thinking of someone else?
    No that was People Polling. FoN are generally a bit more favourable in vote share to Reform and the worst for Tories but they were the most accurate Mayoralty pollsters - slightly overstating Reform by 2 or 3 points though
    There has only ever been one opinion poll that reported a lower vote share for the Tories than the 16% with FoN above (though this is the seventh time recently they have landed on 16 so unless something changes, random sampling will drop them a lower one at some point). That worst-ever poll was 14, with People Polling at the nadir of Truss's premiership.
    They got a 15 in the election campaign too.
    Labour are also hovering just above their lowest ever polling
    That's a feature of 5 party polling. 25% now is 35% plus two years ago. The days of winning seats with 35,000 votes and 70% are gone
    They got three, having just checked (two PP, one FON). My apologies.

    But yes, five parties in double figures is going to put a hell of a stress on FPTP.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,513

    He's everything id expect from a haunted house presenting Reform Chairman

    He elicits the same vibes as the many former Fox News presenters now filling Trump's cabinet.

    Right wing politics desperately needs some serious and competent people.
    Right now the Country needs serious and competent people unlike Starmer snd Reeves

    Indeed I cannot see any politician that could deal with the hard decisions needed
    Starmer and Reeves are serious politicians who are at least trying to do the best job they can. You just don’t like them.

    They are light years more serious than Kemi and Farage
    Because you don't like Kemi and Farage. It's a circular argument.
    Not really. Farage is objectively promising a platform that isn’t deliverable. It’s Brexit all over again

    Kemi is just talking to herself
    This is opinion, not fact.
    They are all pretty useless in my opinion, but that's not objective, its opinion
    There is nothing objectively more 'serious' about Starmer than the LOTO
    There is. Objectively. Starmer is Prime Minister is delivering a programme that is at least stable. Kemi is talking to herself and nobody is listening
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