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A proper Scottish poll brings good news for Reform and independence – politicalbetting.com

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  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,539

    Looks like our nuclear deterrent could go sub-strategic again - fighter jets that can drop tactical nukes:

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/review-fighter-jets-nuclear-weapons-x9vldt0sv

    Someone suggested this here a few times.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452
    It looks like the RAF, Royal Navy, munitions industry, and AI/drone/new defence technologists will have things to cheer in the SDR.

    Army looks the big loser. Probably have to wait for spending to creep up to 3% of GDP, but they seem to have a fundamental recruitment problem: either no-one wants to join or they're making it too hard to join.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452

    Looks like our nuclear deterrent could go sub-strategic again - fighter jets that can drop tactical nukes:

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/review-fighter-jets-nuclear-weapons-x9vldt0sv

    Someone suggested this here a few times.
    In theory, Trident could do it (if it bloody worked) set on a very low yield but it seems one of the big concerns is Moscow wouldn't be able to work out if it's a strategic launch or a tactical one, so could escalate dangerously.

    It's about matching Putins's capability - he can already do it - to deter him more effectively, and diversify our delivery mechanisms.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Up early this morning, is today’s Sunday Rawnsley:

    How to be a successful Labour government when the public realm is dilapidated but there is no extra money to spend? That question has haunted Rachel Reeves since she arrived at the Treasury and is the central reason why her approval ratings are so terrible. It is the spectre hanging over the multi-year spending review settlement that she will unveil on 11 June.

    Fair play to the government, it is pursuing reforms, such as speeding up the planning system, which should ultimately improve Britain’s long-term prospects. But ultimately and long-term don’t pay today’s bills.

    Further raids into the welfare budget have been privately mooted by the Treasury, but look increasingly unfeasible. For a sizeable chunk of opinion in Labour’s ranks, there’s a glaringly easy answer: increase borrowing by easing the fiscal rules. [But] Sir John Kingman, the chair of Legal & General, who used to be a senior official at the Treasury, puts it well when he says the UK is “already treading a very delicate path, along a cliff-edge in deep fog”. One false step and over you go, into the abyss.

    As it is, some further tax rises in the autumn budget are beginning to look unavoidable. To gather game-changing sums of extra revenue, the chancellor would have to hike the rate of one or more of the big three: income tax, employee national insurance and VAT. Both the Treasury and No 10 regard that as impossible because it would mean breaking Labour’s solemn manifesto pledge.

    So the strain of keeping to the rules will be met by spending restraint. Nigel Farage can promise the moon on a stick. Sir Ed Davey can oppose every tax rise while bemoaning every spending curb. They enjoy the luxurious privilege of being opposition leaders many years ahead of a general election. For the residents of Downing Street, there is no magic money tree.

    VAT and NI are both ridiculous taxes. They are also both very bad for business.

    The better solution, although it would mean an awful lot of short term squealing from pensioners in particular, would be to finally merge NI and income tax and charge everyone the same rate of it.
    Essentially, I (roughly) calculate I only keep 50% of what I earn once NI, VAT, Income Tax, Fuel Duty, Council Tax and you name it has had their cut over the course of the year.

    Workers are very heavily taxed for the non-working.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,594
    ydoethur said:

    betting Post

    F1: in a super-exciting bet, I've backed the McLarens and Verstappen to form the podium, at 2.2. Potential for Russell to spoil that but it's going to be bright and sunny and the Mercedes tends to prefer the cold.

    https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/06/spanish-grand-prix-2025-pre-race.html

    I wonder if Liam Lawson has permitted himself a wry smile at Tsunoda's performance, or whether he just feels very sorry for him.
    Some people are already worried Hadjar might be demoted to Red Bull.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452
    I don't know if Crapita are still doing Army recruitment but, if so, they should boot them out, pronto.

    Drop the Wokery and keep the entrance requirements very basic, or even drop them to virtually nothing, and go for urban WWC boys like they used to - and even those trapped in UC/PIP hobbled families - because they can develop skills, teach them, build a career, and earn a good income.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,625

    I don't know if Crapita are still doing Army recruitment but, if so, they should boot them out, pronto.

    Drop the Wokery and keep the entrance requirements very basic, or even drop them to virtually nothing, and go for urban WWC boys like they used to - and even those trapped in UC/PIP hobbled families - because they can develop skills, teach them, build a career, and earn a good income.

    The new drone-driven warfare being unveiled in Ukraine makes being an army grunt particularly unattractive, I’d suggest.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,461
    Fully self drive cars are here. Finally


    https://www.wsj.com/tech/waymo-cars-self-driving-robotaxi-tesla-uber-0777f570


    The increase in usage is now exponential - doubling every few months and overtaking human taxi drivers. This will now sweep the world
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452
    IanB2 said:

    I don't know if Crapita are still doing Army recruitment but, if so, they should boot them out, pronto.

    Drop the Wokery and keep the entrance requirements very basic, or even drop them to virtually nothing, and go for urban WWC boys like they used to - and even those trapped in UC/PIP hobbled families - because they can develop skills, teach them, build a career, and earn a good income.

    The new drone-driven warfare being unveiled in Ukraine makes being an army grunt particularly unattractive, I’d suggest.
    Recruits & Privates: £26,334 a year from Day One? Plus accommodation and meals?

    It's not bad.

    [To be fair, it doesn't appear they rule you out if you have no qualifications or even minor criminal convictions for a very basic soldier, so at least that is enlightened]

    https://jobs.army.mod.uk/regular-army/what-you-get/pay-benefits/#:~:text=Recruits & Privates: £26,334 a,Sergeant: £44,423 a year
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,988
    Labour MP in undeclared relationship with boss of trade union she lobbied for in Parliament

    A Labour MP is under pressure to explain why she lobbied Parliament on behalf of a trade union while in an undeclared relationship with its boss.

    The Mail on Sunday can reveal that Durham MP Mary Foy is in a relationship with militant former fireman Matt Wrack, who led the Fire Brigades Union (FBU) for two decades until January.

    Ms Foy introduced two Early Day Motions on behalf of the union when Mr Wrack was the FBU's general secretary – one asking for a pay rise for firefighters and the other calling for the Government to support a union campaign.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14768275/Labour-MP-undeclared-relationship-trade-union-boss-lobbied-Parliament.html
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,988

    IanB2 said:

    I don't know if Crapita are still doing Army recruitment but, if so, they should boot them out, pronto.

    Drop the Wokery and keep the entrance requirements very basic, or even drop them to virtually nothing, and go for urban WWC boys like they used to - and even those trapped in UC/PIP hobbled families - because they can develop skills, teach them, build a career, and earn a good income.

    The new drone-driven warfare being unveiled in Ukraine makes being an army grunt particularly unattractive, I’d suggest.
    Recruits & Privates: £26,334 a year from Day One? Plus accommodation and meals?

    It's not bad.

    [To be fair, it doesn't appear they rule you out if you have no qualifications or even minor criminal convictions for a very basic soldier, so at least that is enlightened]

    https://jobs.army.mod.uk/regular-army/what-you-get/pay-benefits/#:~:text=Recruits & Privates: £26,334 a,Sergeant: £44,423 a year
    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,106
    Leon said:

    Fully self drive cars are here. Finally


    https://www.wsj.com/tech/waymo-cars-self-driving-robotaxi-tesla-uber-0777f570


    The increase in usage is now exponential - doubling every few months and overtaking human taxi drivers. This will now sweep the world

    I’m guessing you think exponential means something different to what it does?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,625
    Sunniest UK spring on record, possibly also the warmest on record, and also notably dry. Full stats out tomorrow,
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452

    IanB2 said:

    I don't know if Crapita are still doing Army recruitment but, if so, they should boot them out, pronto.

    Drop the Wokery and keep the entrance requirements very basic, or even drop them to virtually nothing, and go for urban WWC boys like they used to - and even those trapped in UC/PIP hobbled families - because they can develop skills, teach them, build a career, and earn a good income.

    The new drone-driven warfare being unveiled in Ukraine makes being an army grunt particularly unattractive, I’d suggest.
    Recruits & Privates: £26,334 a year from Day One? Plus accommodation and meals?

    It's not bad.

    [To be fair, it doesn't appear they rule you out if you have no qualifications or even minor criminal convictions for a very basic soldier, so at least that is enlightened]

    https://jobs.army.mod.uk/regular-army/what-you-get/pay-benefits/#:~:text=Recruits & Privates: £26,334 a,Sergeant: £44,423 a year
    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.
    It's a bit more than that to be fair, plus you get this from 18 years old, not 21 years old, have lots of stuff paid for or subsidised and far fewer opportunities to fritter it. You get to travel, learn, develop and grow a career.

    If I had no options I'd bloody jump at it.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,497

    go for urban WWC boys

    Why do they have to be white and boys?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,825
    IanB2 said:

    I don't know if Crapita are still doing Army recruitment but, if so, they should boot them out, pronto.

    Drop the Wokery and keep the entrance requirements very basic, or even drop them to virtually nothing, and go for urban WWC boys like they used to - and even those trapped in UC/PIP hobbled families - because they can develop skills, teach them, build a career, and earn a good income.

    The new drone-driven warfare being unveiled in Ukraine makes being an army grunt particularly unattractive, I’d suggest.
    On the contrary get paid to play Xbox in the real world.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-gamer-soldiers-russia-war-b2749109.html

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,497

    Looks like our nuclear deterrent could go sub-strategic again - fighter jets that can drop tactical nukes:

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/review-fighter-jets-nuclear-weapons-x9vldt0sv

    The article says they will buy aircraft CAPABLE of B61 carriage and release. I read that as the RAF have won the Great F-35 War that has been raging for almost a decade, will give up on the B, start buying the A and fuck the carriers.

    This is being rather deftly marketed by focussing on the fact that the A can carry a US B61 and therefore could, in theory, restore a tac nuke capability. With the unvoiced coda that the UK would have to join the NATO Nuclear Sharing programs to get access to US owned and operated weapons but probably never would.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,497
    edited June 1



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,461
    edited June 1

    Leon said:

    Fully self drive cars are here. Finally


    https://www.wsj.com/tech/waymo-cars-self-driving-robotaxi-tesla-uber-0777f570


    The increase in usage is now exponential - doubling every few months and overtaking human taxi drivers. This will now sweep the world

    I’m guessing you think exponential means something different to what it does?
    From the WSJ article


    “But if you study the Waymo data, you can see that curve taking shape.

    It cracked a million total paid rides in late 2023. By the end of 2024, it reached five million. We’re not even halfway through 2025 and it has already crossed a cumulative 10 million. At this rate, Waymo is on track to double again and blow past 20 million fully autonomous trips by the end of the year.

    “This is what EXPONENTIAL scaling looks like,” said Dmitri Dolgov, Waymo’s co-chief executive, at Google’s recent developer conference.””


  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,461
    Why on earth are we developing very expensive human-piloted fighter jets when the future will clearly be robot jets/drones, just as with cars?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,825

    IanB2 said:

    I don't know if Crapita are still doing Army recruitment but, if so, they should boot them out, pronto.

    Drop the Wokery and keep the entrance requirements very basic, or even drop them to virtually nothing, and go for urban WWC boys like they used to - and even those trapped in UC/PIP hobbled families - because they can develop skills, teach them, build a career, and earn a good income.

    The new drone-driven warfare being unveiled in Ukraine makes being an army grunt particularly unattractive, I’d suggest.
    Recruits & Privates: £26,334 a year from Day One? Plus accommodation and meals?

    It's not bad.

    [To be fair, it doesn't appear they rule you out if you have no qualifications or even minor criminal convictions for a very basic soldier, so at least that is enlightened]

    https://jobs.army.mod.uk/regular-army/what-you-get/pay-benefits/#:~:text=Recruits & Privates: £26,334 a,Sergeant: £44,423 a year
    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.
    It's a bit more than that to be fair, plus you get this from 18 years old, not 21 years old, have lots of stuff paid for or subsidised and far fewer opportunities to fritter it. You get to travel, learn, develop and grow a career.

    If I had no options I'd bloody jump at it.
    There are a number of reasons that recruitment and retention is poor, the latter being a particular issue for technical grades. Service accommodation, bullying and sexual abuse scandals, poor discharge planning to civilian life etc.

    Probably the biggest problem is the lack of actual combat. Since we abandoned Afghanistan to the Taliban there are few opportunities to kill or be killed. That's what recruits want to do, not endless theoretical training. Paradoxically recruitment drops in time of peace, and we haven't fought a conflict in a decade.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,825
    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    The problem of alcoholism in the military suggests that water isn't the only drink.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,588
    Good morning

    Farage and Starmer both in Scotland tomorrow

    Who will get the best reception and media coverage

    Maybe the SNP !!!!!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,901
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    The problem of alcoholism in the military suggests that water isn't the only drink.
    So life isn't unbeerable?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,461
    Jesus. Some really violent shit happened in France last night. The videos are on X
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452
    Dura_Ace said:

    go for urban WWC boys

    Why do they have to be white and boys?
    That's the traditional strongest source of Army recruitment. Too much effort is spent on trying to achieve diversity goals rather than hit the numbers. And 95%+ of all front-line troops will always be male, even now sex has been lifted that as a criteria, so it's entirely appropriate to talk about manpower.

    Your DEI show purely performative, aimed at ingratiating yourself with your side and riling the other to fuel conflict.

    Your posts steam with more misogyny than anyone else on here.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,447
    As I said on the previous thread, having missed the new one, it seems very odd that 37% of the vote (SNP +Greens) is only 1 off a majority in a partly proportional system. I personally doubt they would be that close but we shall see in due course.

    Swinney is doing his best not to govern or do anything controversial about anything. He makes Starmer and his government look ultra dynamic. This quietude, in fairness, has stabilised things from the lunatic days of Yousless and the latter Sturgeon but at the price of none of Scotland's multitude of problems being addressed.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452
    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    You served in the Royal Navy not the Army.

    It's about 40 years out of date. Sure, it happens during basic training - and you're expected to maintain those standards thereafter - but the Army has a very strong sports and social scene.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    I don't know if Crapita are still doing Army recruitment but, if so, they should boot them out, pronto.

    Drop the Wokery and keep the entrance requirements very basic, or even drop them to virtually nothing, and go for urban WWC boys like they used to - and even those trapped in UC/PIP hobbled families - because they can develop skills, teach them, build a career, and earn a good income.

    The new drone-driven warfare being unveiled in Ukraine makes being an army grunt particularly unattractive, I’d suggest.
    Recruits & Privates: £26,334 a year from Day One? Plus accommodation and meals?

    It's not bad.

    [To be fair, it doesn't appear they rule you out if you have no qualifications or even minor criminal convictions for a very basic soldier, so at least that is enlightened]

    https://jobs.army.mod.uk/regular-army/what-you-get/pay-benefits/#:~:text=Recruits & Privates: £26,334 a,Sergeant: £44,423 a year
    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.
    It's a bit more than that to be fair, plus you get this from 18 years old, not 21 years old, have lots of stuff paid for or subsidised and far fewer opportunities to fritter it. You get to travel, learn, develop and grow a career.

    If I had no options I'd bloody jump at it.
    There are a number of reasons that recruitment and retention is poor, the latter being a particular issue for technical grades. Service accommodation, bullying and sexual abuse scandals, poor discharge planning to civilian life etc.

    Probably the biggest problem is the lack of actual combat. Since we abandoned Afghanistan to the Taliban there are few opportunities to kill or be killed. That's what recruits want to do, not endless theoretical training. Paradoxically recruitment drops in time of peace, and we haven't fought a conflict in a decade.
    It's true that active operations are a big driver for recruitment. However, we didn't struggle too much during the Cold War where shadow operations and war games took place most years.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,057
    rcs1000 said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    Nothing on the BBC webpage about the Leicester car attack. Nothing. What the fuck? And yes, the new policy of giving ethnicity by the police has come to an end. As predicted.

    Yes. As you correctly predicted. How long did it last? 5 days?
    This?

    BBC News - Man arrested after car hits number of pedestrians in Leicester - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgqppwwje8o

    It's in the local section, it was last night and the suspect and victims all attended the same private event.

    It's not on the mass scale that the Liverpool one was. Tbh, this type of attack is newsworthy at the moment, but I don't know if lower level vehicle attacks have gone under the radar for years.

    That said, if conspiratorial minds are on to it, it's time for Leicestershire police to crack open the national guidance and communicate what details they can very openly.
    It happened at 00:31 - i.e. very earliest hours of the morning, and followed reports of a fight.

    So it seems unlikely to be a terrorist incident.
    Never suggested it was.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,988
    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    That's the point. Recruits can get the same money stacking shelves and go home at night. You don't take the King's shilling for the money, you do it for the lifestyle. Join the army and see the world (more specifically, see that part of the world called Catterick). Join the navy and travel the globe underwater for a year.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452
    Dura_Ace said:

    Looks like our nuclear deterrent could go sub-strategic again - fighter jets that can drop tactical nukes:

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/review-fighter-jets-nuclear-weapons-x9vldt0sv

    The article says they will buy aircraft CAPABLE of B61 carriage and release. I read that as the RAF have won the Great F-35 War that has been raging for almost a decade, will give up on the B, start buying the A and fuck the carriers.

    This is being rather deftly marketed by focussing on the fact that the A can carry a US B61 and therefore could, in theory, restore a tac nuke capability. With the unvoiced coda that the UK would have to join the NATO Nuclear Sharing programs to get access to US owned and operated weapons but probably never would.
    Dura_Ace said:

    Looks like our nuclear deterrent could go sub-strategic again - fighter jets that can drop tactical nukes:

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/review-fighter-jets-nuclear-weapons-x9vldt0sv

    The article says they will buy aircraft CAPABLE of B61 carriage and release. I read that as the RAF have won the Great F-35 War that has been raging for almost a decade, will give up on the B, start buying the A and fuck the carriers.

    This is being rather deftly marketed by focussing on the fact that the A can carry a US B61 and therefore could, in theory, restore a tac nuke capability. With the unvoiced coda that the UK would have to join the NATO Nuclear Sharing programs to get access to US owned and operated weapons but probably never would.
    Yes, it does say that. The review will recommend the UK looks at expanding its contribution to Nato’s shared nuclear deterrence in Europe, and this is how it could be done.

    I read it as a clear statement of intent that the UK wants to move to a two-tier nuclear deterrent so we, and our European allies, could deliver a clear and limited response to any Russian attack, sans USA.

    Which is now needed.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,825

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    I don't know if Crapita are still doing Army recruitment but, if so, they should boot them out, pronto.

    Drop the Wokery and keep the entrance requirements very basic, or even drop them to virtually nothing, and go for urban WWC boys like they used to - and even those trapped in UC/PIP hobbled families - because they can develop skills, teach them, build a career, and earn a good income.

    The new drone-driven warfare being unveiled in Ukraine makes being an army grunt particularly unattractive, I’d suggest.
    Recruits & Privates: £26,334 a year from Day One? Plus accommodation and meals?

    It's not bad.

    [To be fair, it doesn't appear they rule you out if you have no qualifications or even minor criminal convictions for a very basic soldier, so at least that is enlightened]

    https://jobs.army.mod.uk/regular-army/what-you-get/pay-benefits/#:~:text=Recruits & Privates: £26,334 a,Sergeant: £44,423 a year
    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.
    It's a bit more than that to be fair, plus you get this from 18 years old, not 21 years old, have lots of stuff paid for or subsidised and far fewer opportunities to fritter it. You get to travel, learn, develop and grow a career.

    If I had no options I'd bloody jump at it.
    There are a number of reasons that recruitment and retention is poor, the latter being a particular issue for technical grades. Service accommodation, bullying and sexual abuse scandals, poor discharge planning to civilian life etc.

    Probably the biggest problem is the lack of actual combat. Since we abandoned Afghanistan to the Taliban there are few opportunities to kill or be killed. That's what recruits want to do, not endless theoretical training. Paradoxically recruitment drops in time of peace, and we haven't fought a conflict in a decade.
    It's true that active operations are a big driver for recruitment. However, we didn't struggle too much during the Cold War where shadow operations and war games took place most years.
    During the Cold War, I think 1968 was the only year that British troops were not on active service. There were loads of small forgotten wars. Malaya, Kenya, Aden, Borneo etc. Then Northern Ireland of course.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,046
    Guys:

    LAFC just beat Club America 2-1 to qualify for the Club World Cup where they will play Chelsea in two weeks time.

    I just felt I needed to share that.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    I don't know if Crapita are still doing Army recruitment but, if so, they should boot them out, pronto.

    Drop the Wokery and keep the entrance requirements very basic, or even drop them to virtually nothing, and go for urban WWC boys like they used to - and even those trapped in UC/PIP hobbled families - because they can develop skills, teach them, build a career, and earn a good income.

    The new drone-driven warfare being unveiled in Ukraine makes being an army grunt particularly unattractive, I’d suggest.
    Recruits & Privates: £26,334 a year from Day One? Plus accommodation and meals?

    It's not bad.

    [To be fair, it doesn't appear they rule you out if you have no qualifications or even minor criminal convictions for a very basic soldier, so at least that is enlightened]

    https://jobs.army.mod.uk/regular-army/what-you-get/pay-benefits/#:~:text=Recruits & Privates: £26,334 a,Sergeant: £44,423 a year
    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.
    It's a bit more than that to be fair, plus you get this from 18 years old, not 21 years old, have lots of stuff paid for or subsidised and far fewer opportunities to fritter it. You get to travel, learn, develop and grow a career.

    If I had no options I'd bloody jump at it.
    There are a number of reasons that recruitment and retention is poor, the latter being a particular issue for technical grades. Service accommodation, bullying and sexual abuse scandals, poor discharge planning to civilian life etc.

    Probably the biggest problem is the lack of actual combat. Since we abandoned Afghanistan to the Taliban there are few opportunities to kill or be killed. That's what recruits want to do, not endless theoretical training. Paradoxically recruitment drops in time of peace, and we haven't fought a conflict in a decade.
    It's true that active operations are a big driver for recruitment. However, we didn't struggle too much during the Cold War where shadow operations and war games took place most years.
    During the Cold War, I think 1968 was the only year that British troops were not on active service. There were loads of small forgotten wars. Malaya, Kenya, Aden, Borneo etc. Then Northern Ireland of course.
    Yes, that's true but that wasn't where the bulk of the army was deployed. And you're stretching that over many decades.

    Today, the Army has an important role to play in training and preparing for highly kinetic operations in the Baltic states.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 884

    Dura_Ace said:

    go for urban WWC boys

    Why do they have to be white and boys?
    That's the traditional strongest source of Army recruitment. Too much effort is spent on trying to achieve diversity goals rather than hit the numbers. And 95%+ of all front-line troops will always be male, even now sex has been lifted that as a criteria, so it's entirely appropriate to talk about manpower.

    Your DEI show purely performative, aimed at ingratiating yourself with your side and riling the other to fuel conflict.

    Your posts steam with more misogyny than anyone else on here.
    Have you met any Ghurkhas and some of the Sikhs? A bit of DEI derangement syndrome going on here and elsewhere.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452

    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    That's the point. Recruits can get the same money stacking shelves and go home at night. You don't take the King's shilling for the money, you do it for the lifestyle. Join the army and see the world (more specifically, see that part of the world called Catterick). Join the navy and travel the globe underwater for a year.
    The shelf stackers - if not living with mum and dad - will have to drop a grand a month on rent, council tax and bills, and a job that never goes anywhere.

    Not so in the Army.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,508
    DavidL said:

    As I said on the previous thread, having missed the new one, it seems very odd that 37% of the vote (SNP +Greens) is only 1 off a majority in a partly proportional system. I personally doubt they would be that close but we shall see in due course.

    Swinney is doing his best not to govern or do anything controversial about anything. He makes Starmer and his government look ultra dynamic. This quietude, in fairness, has stabilised things from the lunatic days of Yousless and the latter Sturgeon but at the price of none of Scotland's multitude of problems being addressed.

    If the SNP and Scotland really want independence they would focus on running the many things delegated to Scotland brilliantly well. The stuff that people care about and changes votes. Stuff like health, public health and civil order (though Scotland I am sure has drink, drugs and gang violence sorted), education, domestic abuse, pot holes.

    Thse are the things which show voters that politics is more than moaning about 'resources'. Quality of leadership makes a huge difference.

    It would not be hard to perform better than England in all these matters. Would it?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452
    Battlebus said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    go for urban WWC boys

    Why do they have to be white and boys?
    That's the traditional strongest source of Army recruitment. Too much effort is spent on trying to achieve diversity goals rather than hit the numbers. And 95%+ of all front-line troops will always be male, even now sex has been lifted that as a criteria, so it's entirely appropriate to talk about manpower.

    Your DEI show purely performative, aimed at ingratiating yourself with your side and riling the other to fuel conflict.

    Your posts steam with more misogyny than anyone else on here.
    Have you met any Ghurkhas and some of the Sikhs? A bit of DEI derangement syndrome going on here and elsewhere.
    Of course. It's all about their hope they can "out" someone as a secret racist, and win plaudits for doing so, whilst secretly being prejudiced themselves - and knowing it.

    It's the cover they want. The louder they proclaim their virtues the faster you should count your spoons.

    The Army already has heavy Commonwealth recruitment to fill its ranks. But it's neglecting its traditional sources of domestic strength, and loads in the urban WWC male camp aren't working or are in need of work, and it seems an obvious bridge to rebuild.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,740
    edited June 1
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    I AM STILL MIFFED ABOUT THAT EPISODE

    Why?
    Multiple reasons
    • Ncuti's reign was hyper, everything was Sunny Delight and insufficient quiet drama.
    • He never met the Daleks, the Cybermen, nor the Weeping Angels
    • The ending was rushed and obviously forced.
    • The discourse and leaks indicated that they were planning to start filming the next series in Q1 2025 but Disney got cold feet, Ncuti decided to jump ship, and reshoots in February filled in the regeneration. It shows.
    • Given the urgency, I doubt they auditioned widely and Billie may simply have been the first to hand who was available and willing to work with RTD. I assume if more time was available they'd've cast Russell Tovey (RTD's original chice for Eleven before Moffat cast Matt Smith)
    • The Ruby/Belinda problem (Millie couldn't take the workload and her role was scaled back despite guarantees to her that it wouldn't happen, requiring Belinda as an emergency companion and frantic rewrites) was obvious in this episode. Millie should have been John Smith's "wife" and Poppy bonding with her instead of Belinda would have made more sense.
    • Shenanigans again. RTD does not run a tight ship. In his first run in the Noughties Eccleston pissed off and hates RTD, Martha (Freema Agyeman) was fired for no good reason, John Barrowman was rubbing his penis against everybody (yes, that really happened), and now it's happened again in the 2020s. The shenanigans, not the penis. Probably.
    • I don't like the idea of a surprise regeneration.
    • The regeneration itself was forced. In normal circs he would have done something sciencey/timey wimey and made Poppy reappear, not a forced suicide.
    • RTD has gone full fanboy. Susan? Omega? The Rani? Seriously??? No wonder the viewers switched off.
    • Archie Panjabi must be resurrected somehow. I insist.
    • Hanging plotlines. Rogue was badly resolved. Susan was unresolved (the original ending had her in the background, leaning into series 16/3)
    I’ve stopped watching after the first or second episode this run.

    It’s just so unengaging. All of my friends who like the show and are fans have stopped watching before me.

    I fully expect Rose/Piper to be some crap to do with tardis energy from the time eccleston regenerated.

    I am going to watch the last episode this morning instead of this weeks Z Cars and Cpt Scarlet on Talking Pictures.

    I don’t blame Gatwa for bailing. He’s clearly a talented actor and charismatic. Don’t want to get lumbered with a dud.

    I love the idea that RTD who succesfully resurrected the series has come back and buried it.

    In the words of Gorilla Monsoon, put a fork in it, it’s done.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,447
    Interesting piece of analysis on the bye election on Wings: https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-outsiders/#more-151381

    He reckons that the value might be on Reform. I think he is probably right. Certainly, there is no value on the SNP at the ridiculous odds on rates being quoted. The collapse of Labour, yet again, does not bode well for them next year. They seem to be suffering from a leader with zero impact in Scotland and a negative impact in the UK.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 884
    Passed through Lewisham yesterday and notice a lot of City of Sanctuary signs up. Thought I would look it up to see what the organisation does. Wonder if Reform will sign up in the areas they now control e.g. Louth.

    https://cityofsanctuary.org/
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,553
    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    I AM STILL MIFFED ABOUT THAT EPISODE

    Why?
    Multiple reasons
    • Ncuti's reign was hyper, everything was Sunny Delight and insufficient quiet drama.
    • He never met the Daleks, the Cybermen, nor the Weeping Angels
    • The ending was rushed and obviously forced.
    • The discourse and leaks indicated that they were planning to start filming the next series in Q1 2025 but Disney got cold feet, Ncuti decided to jump ship, and reshoots in February filled in the regeneration. It shows.
    • Given the urgency, I doubt they auditioned widely and Billie may simply have been the first to hand who was available and willing to work with RTD. I assume if more time was available they'd've cast Russell Tovey (RTD's original chice for Eleven before Moffat cast Matt Smith)
    • The Ruby/Belinda problem (Millie couldn't take the workload and her role was scaled back despite guarantees to her that it wouldn't happen, requiring Belinda as an emergency companion and frantic rewrites) was obvious in this episode. Millie should have been John Smith's "wife" and Poppy bonding with her instead of Belinda would have made more sense.
    • Shenanigans again. RTD does not run a tight ship. In his first run in the Noughties Eccleston pissed off and hates RTD, Martha (Freema Agyeman) was fired for no good reason, John Barrowman was rubbing his penis against everybody (yes, that really happened), and now it's happened again in the 2020s. The shenanigans, not the penis. Probably.
    • I don't like the idea of a surprise regeneration.
    • The regeneration itself was forced. In normal circs he would have done something sciencey/timey wimey and made Poppy reappear, not a forced suicide.
    • RTD has gone full fanboy. Susan? Omega? The Rani? Seriously??? No wonder the viewers switched off.
    • Archie Panjabi must be resurrected somehow. I insist.
    • Hanging plotlines. Rogue was badly resolved. Susan was unresolved (the original ending had her in the background, leaning into series 16/3)
    I’ve stopped watching after the first or second episode this run.

    It’s just so unengaging. All of my friends who like the show and are fans have stopped watching before me.

    I fully expect Rose/Piper to be some crap to do with tardis energy from the time eccleston regenerated.

    I am going to watch the last episode this morning instead of this weeks Z Cars and Cpt Scarlet on Talking Pictures.

    I don’t blame Gatwa for bailing. He’s clearly a talented actor and charismatic. Don’t want to get lumbered with a dud.
    The last episode isn’t going to make much sense if you’ve not watched the rest of the season.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,901

    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    That's the point. Recruits can get the same money stacking shelves and go home at night. You don't take the King's shilling for the money, you do it for the lifestyle. Join the army and see the world (more specifically, see that part of the world called Catterick). Join the navy and travel the globe underwater for a year.
    Join the Fleet Air Arm and see a Yorkshire terrier in a Polish brothel and get an STI saying 'Received with Gdansk?'
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452
    Battlebus said:

    Passed through Lewisham yesterday and notice a lot of City of Sanctuary signs up. Thought I would look it up to see what the organisation does. Wonder if Reform will sign up in the areas they now control e.g. Louth.

    https://cityofsanctuary.org/

    Another American import.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,825
    Battlebus said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    go for urban WWC boys

    Why do they have to be white and boys?
    That's the traditional strongest source of Army recruitment. Too much effort is spent on trying to achieve diversity goals rather than hit the numbers. And 95%+ of all front-line troops will always be male, even now sex has been lifted that as a criteria, so it's entirely appropriate to talk about manpower.

    Your DEI show purely performative, aimed at ingratiating yourself with your side and riling the other to fuel conflict.

    Your posts steam with more misogyny than anyone else on here.
    Have you met any Ghurkhas and some of the Sikhs? A bit of DEI derangement syndrome going on here and elsewhere.
    According to official figures the Other Ranks in the Army are 18.9% non white, 3.6% for officers.

    https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/workforce-and-business/workforce-diversity/armed-forces-workforce/latest/

    Quite a surprising number of Fijians for example, though not always treated very well.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/05/where-is-the-fairness-fijis-british-army-veterans-fight-for-a-life-in-uk?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,858
    edited June 1
    Didn't something like 140,000 people apply to join the armed services last year?

    Anecdotally, it just takes forever and by the time they get back to you and sorted all the paperwork you've likely found a better paying job that doesn't involve getting fit and/or crap work.

    For those who stick it out, by far the biggest reason for rejection was medical. I disagree that you should lower standards to coddle an increasingly sedentary population - we need to get kids running again. The entry standards aren't particularly tough unless you're going for the Marines.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,901
    DavidL said:

    As I said on the previous thread, having missed the new one, it seems very odd that 37% of the vote (SNP +Greens) is only 1 off a majority in a partly proportional system. I personally doubt they would be that close but we shall see in due course.

    Swinney is doing his best not to govern or do anything controversial about anything. He makes Starmer and his government look ultra dynamic. This quietude, in fairness, has stabilised things from the lunatic days of Yousless and the latter Sturgeon but at the price of none of Scotland's multitude of problems being addressed.

    May I introduce you to the 2007 Welsh assembly elections, which were almost as disproportionate as the average Israeli military operation designed by Netanyahu to save his career?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_National_Assembly_for_Wales_election#Votes_summary
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,497
    edited June 1

    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    That's the point. Recruits can get the same money stacking shelves and go home at night. You don't take the King's shilling for the money, you do it for the lifestyle. Join the army and see the world (more specifically, see that part of the world called Catterick). Join the navy and travel the globe underwater for a year.
    The money is a hygeine issue. Nobody does it for the money but plenty will not do it if the money is not at least adequate. Which it isn't for a lot of people.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,508
    edited June 1

    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    That's the point. Recruits can get the same money stacking shelves and go home at night. You don't take the King's shilling for the money, you do it for the lifestyle. Join the army and see the world (more specifically, see that part of the world called Catterick). Join the navy and travel the globe underwater for a year.
    The shelf stackers - if not living with mum and dad - will have to drop a grand a month on rent, council tax and bills, and a job that never goes anywhere.

    Not so in the Army.
    It seems to me that wanting to join the armed forces is very geared to culture. Particular sorts from particular backgrounds want to sign up, across the social spectrum. It forms part of a background in family and who else you know and like.

    I wonder if that pool is declining. In particular I think there are cultural reasons why a larger number of parents think that the opportunity of having their child/children killed in combat is not for them.

    It's a bit like going to church. Quite a few people think that it's a good thing for other people to do.

    We are also much more critical of the idea that in wars one side is absolutely right and the other one absolutely wrong; and much more critical of 'my country right or wrong.'

    An armed invasion would alter all that of course.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452
    Eabhal said:

    Didn't something like 140,000 people apply to join the armed services last year?

    Anecdotally, it just takes forever and by the time they get back to you and sorted all the paperwork you've likely found a better paying job that doesn't involve getting very fit and/or crap work.

    For those who stick it out, by far the biggest reason for rejection was medical. I disagree that you should lower standards to coddle an increasingly sedentary population - we need to get kids running again. The entry standards aren't particularly tough unless you're going for the Marines.

    Agreed.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,825
    Battlebus said:

    Passed through Lewisham yesterday and notice a lot of City of Sanctuary signs up. Thought I would look it up to see what the organisation does. Wonder if Reform will sign up in the areas they now control e.g. Louth.

    https://cityofsanctuary.org/

    It's been going for years. A number of members of my church are involved. Mostly it's about helping asylum seekers with practical things like clothing, toiletries and English lessons.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,839

    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    That's the point. Recruits can get the same money stacking shelves and go home at night. You don't take the King's shilling for the money, you do it for the lifestyle. Join the army and see the world (more specifically, see that part of the world called Catterick). Join the navy and travel the globe underwater for a year.
    More importantly, go back a few decades and the armed forces were roughly the only way that Joe Average in Normalton was going to get to see the world. That's no longer the case.

    Besides, applicants appearing to undervalue intangible bits of a potential job isn't confined to the military. The applicants are right, even when they're wrong.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,447
    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    As I said on the previous thread, having missed the new one, it seems very odd that 37% of the vote (SNP +Greens) is only 1 off a majority in a partly proportional system. I personally doubt they would be that close but we shall see in due course.

    Swinney is doing his best not to govern or do anything controversial about anything. He makes Starmer and his government look ultra dynamic. This quietude, in fairness, has stabilised things from the lunatic days of Yousless and the latter Sturgeon but at the price of none of Scotland's multitude of problems being addressed.

    If the SNP and Scotland really want independence they would focus on running the many things delegated to Scotland brilliantly well. The stuff that people care about and changes votes. Stuff like health, public health and civil order (though Scotland I am sure has drink, drugs and gang violence sorted), education, domestic abuse, pot holes.

    Thse are the things which show voters that politics is more than moaning about 'resources'. Quality of leadership makes a huge difference.

    It would not be hard to perform better than England in all these matters. Would it?
    Harder than you might think and certainly far too hard for the SNP to even attempt from the time the blessed Nicola took over the reins. To address almost all of these problems requires taking on vested interests and the SNP have avoided that wherever possible. Far better to spend tens of millions arguing about what a woman is.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,784

    Labour MP in undeclared relationship with boss of trade union she lobbied for in Parliament

    A Labour MP is under pressure to explain why she lobbied Parliament on behalf of a trade union while in an undeclared relationship with its boss.

    The Mail on Sunday can reveal that Durham MP Mary Foy is in a relationship with militant former fireman Matt Wrack, who led the Fire Brigades Union (FBU) for two decades until January.

    Ms Foy introduced two Early Day Motions on behalf of the union when Mr Wrack was the FBU's general secretary – one asking for a pay rise for firefighters and the other calling for the Government to support a union campaign.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14768275/Labour-MP-undeclared-relationship-trade-union-boss-lobbied-Parliament.html

    Tim (ex of PB) just had a petite mort.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,508
    Eabhal said:

    Didn't something like 140,000 people apply to join the armed services last year?

    Anecdotally, it just takes forever and by the time they get back to you and sorted all the paperwork you've likely found a better paying job that doesn't involve getting fit and/or crap work.

    For those who stick it out, by far the biggest reason for rejection was medical. I disagree that you should lower standards to coddle an increasingly sedentary population - we need to get kids running again. The entry standards aren't particularly tough unless you're going for the Marines.

    140,000 is a fifth of the yearly cohort in the UK. The total strength of the armed forces is 181K. So something in the figures is odd. Perhaps they could be redirected to social care.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,825
    Eabhal said:

    Didn't something like 140,000 people apply to join the armed services last year?

    Anecdotally, it just takes forever and by the time they get back to you and sorted all the paperwork you've likely found a better paying job that doesn't involve getting fit and/or crap work.

    For those who stick it out, by far the biggest reason for rejection was medical. I disagree that you should lower standards to coddle an increasingly sedentary population - we need to get kids running again. The entry standards aren't particularly tough unless you're going for the Marines.

    Yes, another bodged bit of privatisation and outsourcing.

    We never learn.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452
    edited June 1
    algarkirk said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    That's the point. Recruits can get the same money stacking shelves and go home at night. You don't take the King's shilling for the money, you do it for the lifestyle. Join the army and see the world (more specifically, see that part of the world called Catterick). Join the navy and travel the globe underwater for a year.
    The shelf stackers - if not living with mum and dad - will have to drop a grand a month on rent, council tax and bills, and a job that never goes anywhere.

    Not so in the Army.
    It seems to me that wanting to join the armed forces is very geared to culture. Particular sorts from particular backgrounds want to sign up, across the social spectrum. It forms part of a background in family and who else you know and like.

    I wonder if that pool is declining. In particular I think there are cultural reasons why a larger number of parents think that the opportunity of having their child/children killed in combat is not for them.

    It's a bit like going to church. Quite a few people think that it's a good thing for other people to do.

    We are also much more critical of the idea that in wars one side is absolutely right and the other one absolutely wrong; and much more critical of 'my country right or wrong.'

    An armed invasion would alter all that of course.
    That's a good point. And to that of @Battlebus there is still a fair bit of that in Sikh and Gurkha communities.

    I'm not sure about the last bit. Society goes through phases but the UK was very pacifist in the 1930s, there was that famous Oxford Union motion, and as you say, when the chips are down - things change.

    My bigger concern is that people don't identify with or value the UK period, due to the bilge young people are now fed in schools, universities and by professional EDI'ers.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,447

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    I AM STILL MIFFED ABOUT THAT EPISODE

    Why?
    Multiple reasons
    • Ncuti's reign was hyper, everything was Sunny Delight and insufficient quiet drama.
    • He never met the Daleks, the Cybermen, nor the Weeping Angels
    • The ending was rushed and obviously forced.
    • The discourse and leaks indicated that they were planning to start filming the next series in Q1 2025 but Disney got cold feet, Ncuti decided to jump ship, and reshoots in February filled in the regeneration. It shows.
    • Given the urgency, I doubt they auditioned widely and Billie may simply have been the first to hand who was available and willing to work with RTD. I assume if more time was available they'd've cast Russell Tovey (RTD's original chice for Eleven before Moffat cast Matt Smith)
    • The Ruby/Belinda problem (Millie couldn't take the workload and her role was scaled back despite guarantees to her that it wouldn't happen, requiring Belinda as an emergency companion and frantic rewrites) was obvious in this episode. Millie should have been John Smith's "wife" and Poppy bonding with her instead of Belinda would have made more sense.
    • Shenanigans again. RTD does not run a tight ship. In his first run in the Noughties Eccleston pissed off and hates RTD, Martha (Freema Agyeman) was fired for no good reason, John Barrowman was rubbing his penis against everybody (yes, that really happened), and now it's happened again in the 2020s. The shenanigans, not the penis. Probably.
    • I don't like the idea of a surprise regeneration.
    • The regeneration itself was forced. In normal circs he would have done something sciencey/timey wimey and made Poppy reappear, not a forced suicide.
    • RTD has gone full fanboy. Susan? Omega? The Rani? Seriously??? No wonder the viewers switched off.
    • Archie Panjabi must be resurrected somehow. I insist.
    • Hanging plotlines. Rogue was badly resolved. Susan was unresolved (the original ending had her in the background, leaning into series 16/3)
    I’ve stopped watching after the first or second episode this run.

    It’s just so unengaging. All of my friends who like the show and are fans have stopped watching before me.

    I fully expect Rose/Piper to be some crap to do with tardis energy from the time eccleston regenerated.

    I am going to watch the last episode this morning instead of this weeks Z Cars and Cpt Scarlet on Talking Pictures.

    I don’t blame Gatwa for bailing. He’s clearly a talented actor and charismatic. Don’t want to get lumbered with a dud.
    The last episode isn’t going to make much sense
    FTFY.

    The BBC should have given up on this a long time ago.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,784

    IanB2 said:

    I don't know if Crapita are still doing Army recruitment but, if so, they should boot them out, pronto.

    Drop the Wokery and keep the entrance requirements very basic, or even drop them to virtually nothing, and go for urban WWC boys like they used to - and even those trapped in UC/PIP hobbled families - because they can develop skills, teach them, build a career, and earn a good income.

    The new drone-driven warfare being unveiled in Ukraine makes being an army grunt particularly unattractive, I’d suggest.
    Recruits & Privates: £26,334 a year from Day One? Plus accommodation and meals?

    It's not bad.

    [To be fair, it doesn't appear they rule you out if you have no qualifications or even minor criminal convictions for a very basic soldier, so at least that is enlightened]

    https://jobs.army.mod.uk/regular-army/what-you-get/pay-benefits/#:~:text=Recruits & Privates: £26,334 a,Sergeant: £44,423 a year
    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.
    Plus that exciting added danger of death.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,539

    Labour MP in undeclared relationship with boss of trade union she lobbied for in Parliament

    A Labour MP is under pressure to explain why she lobbied Parliament on behalf of a trade union while in an undeclared relationship with its boss.

    The Mail on Sunday can reveal that Durham MP Mary Foy is in a relationship with militant former fireman Matt Wrack, who led the Fire Brigades Union (FBU) for two decades until January.

    Ms Foy introduced two Early Day Motions on behalf of the union when Mr Wrack was the FBU's general secretary – one asking for a pay rise for firefighters and the other calling for the Government to support a union campaign.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14768275/Labour-MP-undeclared-relationship-trade-union-boss-lobbied-Parliament.html

    Tim (ex of PB) just had a petite mort.
    In her favour, she did launch a 'drunken tirade' against Richard Holden, so she can't be all bad.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,461
    Foxy said:

    Battlebus said:

    Passed through Lewisham yesterday and notice a lot of City of Sanctuary signs up. Thought I would look it up to see what the organisation does. Wonder if Reform will sign up in the areas they now control e.g. Louth.

    https://cityofsanctuary.org/

    It's been going for years. A number of members of my church are involved. Mostly it's about helping asylum seekers with practical things like clothing, toiletries and English lessons.
    Relatedly, this is the banner headline on today’s Telegraph

    “Starmer ‘loses control’ as close to 1,200 migrants cross Channel in single day

    Fishing boats called in to help as Border Force struggles…”

    About as bad as it gets for Starmer

    Remember when he was going to SMASH THE GANGS?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,508
    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    As I said on the previous thread, having missed the new one, it seems very odd that 37% of the vote (SNP +Greens) is only 1 off a majority in a partly proportional system. I personally doubt they would be that close but we shall see in due course.

    Swinney is doing his best not to govern or do anything controversial about anything. He makes Starmer and his government look ultra dynamic. This quietude, in fairness, has stabilised things from the lunatic days of Yousless and the latter Sturgeon but at the price of none of Scotland's multitude of problems being addressed.

    If the SNP and Scotland really want independence they would focus on running the many things delegated to Scotland brilliantly well. The stuff that people care about and changes votes. Stuff like health, public health and civil order (though Scotland I am sure has drink, drugs and gang violence sorted), education, domestic abuse, pot holes.

    Thse are the things which show voters that politics is more than moaning about 'resources'. Quality of leadership makes a huge difference.

    It would not be hard to perform better than England in all these matters. Would it?
    Harder than you might think and certainly far too hard for the SNP to even attempt from the time the blessed Nicola took over the reins. To address almost all of these problems requires taking on vested interests and the SNP have avoided that wherever possible. Far better to spend tens of millions arguing about what a woman is.
    Yes! I have a family member working as a family and children social worker in a Scottish city, and another whose work is closely involved with the Scottish prison service.

    No illusions.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,978
    edited June 1

    Labour MP in undeclared relationship with boss of trade union she lobbied for in Parliament

    A Labour MP is under pressure to explain why she lobbied Parliament on behalf of a trade union while in an undeclared relationship with its boss.

    The Mail on Sunday can reveal that Durham MP Mary Foy is in a relationship with militant former fireman Matt Wrack, who led the Fire Brigades Union (FBU) for two decades until January.

    Ms Foy introduced two Early Day Motions on behalf of the union when Mr Wrack was the FBU's general secretary – one asking for a pay rise for firefighters and the other calling for the Government to support a union campaign.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14768275/Labour-MP-undeclared-relationship-trade-union-boss-lobbied-Parliament.html

    Tim (ex of PB) just had a petite mort.
    In her favour, she did launch a 'drunken tirade' against Richard Holden, so she can't be all bad.
    She knows how to throw a totes legit booze and curry night too
    Morning all
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,461
    1200 boat people in one day. That’s an annual rate of 438,000

    Sub-optimal
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,825
    edited June 1

    algarkirk said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    That's the point. Recruits can get the same money stacking shelves and go home at night. You don't take the King's shilling for the money, you do it for the lifestyle. Join the army and see the world (more specifically, see that part of the world called Catterick). Join the navy and travel the globe underwater for a year.
    The shelf stackers - if not living with mum and dad - will have to drop a grand a month on rent, council tax and bills, and a job that never goes anywhere.

    Not so in the Army.
    It seems to me that wanting to join the armed forces is very geared to culture. Particular sorts from particular backgrounds want to sign up, across the social spectrum. It forms part of a background in family and who else you know and like.

    I wonder if that pool is declining. In particular I think there are cultural reasons why a larger number of parents think that the opportunity of having their child/children killed in combat is not for them.

    It's a bit like going to church. Quite a few people think that it's a good thing for other people to do.

    We are also much more critical of the idea that in wars one side is absolutely right and the other one absolutely wrong; and much more critical of 'my country right or wrong.'

    An armed invasion would alter all that of course.
    That's a good point. And to that of @Battlebus there is still a fair bit of that in Sikh and Gurkha communities.

    I'm not sure about the last bit. Society goes through phases but the UK was very pacifist in the 1930s, there was that famous Oxford Union motion, and as you say, when the chips are down - things change.

    My bigger concern is that people don't identify with or value the UK period, due to the bilge young people are now fed in schools, universities and by professional EDI'ers.
    The simple imperial propaganda of older times simply doesn't wash any more. There are far more sources of information now for Joe Bloggs than The Sun.

    That 18.9% of Other Ranks are from non-white backgrounds shows that you don't have to be white to want to fight for Britain.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,978
    Leon said:

    1200 boat people in one day. That’s an annual rate of 438,000

    Sub-optimal

    Gangs smashed.
    That's Labour's plan for change in action.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    That's the point. Recruits can get the same money stacking shelves and go home at night. You don't take the King's shilling for the money, you do it for the lifestyle. Join the army and see the world (more specifically, see that part of the world called Catterick). Join the navy and travel the globe underwater for a year.
    The shelf stackers - if not living with mum and dad - will have to drop a grand a month on rent, council tax and bills, and a job that never goes anywhere.

    Not so in the Army.
    It seems to me that wanting to join the armed forces is very geared to culture. Particular sorts from particular backgrounds want to sign up, across the social spectrum. It forms part of a background in family and who else you know and like.

    I wonder if that pool is declining. In particular I think there are cultural reasons why a larger number of parents think that the opportunity of having their child/children killed in combat is not for them.

    It's a bit like going to church. Quite a few people think that it's a good thing for other people to do.

    We are also much more critical of the idea that in wars one side is absolutely right and the other one absolutely wrong; and much more critical of 'my country right or wrong.'

    An armed invasion would alter all that of course.
    That's a good point. And to that of @Battlebus there is still a fair bit of that in Sikh and Gurkha communities.

    I'm not sure about the last bit. Society goes through phases but the UK was very pacifist in the 1930s, there was that famous Oxford Union motion, and as you say, when the chips are down - things change.

    My bigger concern is that people don't identify with or value the UK period, due to the bilge young people are now fed in schools, universities and by professional EDI'ers.
    The simple imperial propaganda of older times simply doesn't wash any more. There are far more sources of information to Joe Bloggs than The Sun.

    That 18.9% of Other Ranks are from non-white backgrounds shows that you don't have to be white to want to fight for Britain.
    Um. No-one is saying that you do.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,784

    algarkirk said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    That's the point. Recruits can get the same money stacking shelves and go home at night. You don't take the King's shilling for the money, you do it for the lifestyle. Join the army and see the world (more specifically, see that part of the world called Catterick). Join the navy and travel the globe underwater for a year.
    The shelf stackers - if not living with mum and dad - will have to drop a grand a month on rent, council tax and bills, and a job that never goes anywhere.

    Not so in the Army.
    It seems to me that wanting to join the armed forces is very geared to culture. Particular sorts from particular backgrounds want to sign up, across the social spectrum. It forms part of a background in family and who else you know and like.

    I wonder if that pool is declining. In particular I think there are cultural reasons why a larger number of parents think that the opportunity of having their child/children killed in combat is not for them.

    It's a bit like going to church. Quite a few people think that it's a good thing for other people to do.

    We are also much more critical of the idea that in wars one side is absolutely right and the other one absolutely wrong; and much more critical of 'my country right or wrong.'

    An armed invasion would alter all that of course.
    That's a good point. And to that of @Battlebus there is still a fair bit of that in Sikh and Gurkha communities.

    I'm not sure about the last bit. Society goes through phases but the UK was very pacifist in the 1930s, there was that famous Oxford Union motion, and as you say, when the chips are down - things change.

    My bigger concern is that people don't identify with or value the UK period, due to the bilge young people are now fed in schools, universities and by professional EDI'ers.
    I assume that you’re a member of a local TA unit?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,461

    Leon said:

    1200 boat people in one day. That’s an annual rate of 438,000

    Sub-optimal

    Gangs smashed.
    That's Labour's plan for change in action.
    SMASH THE GANGS

    Remember, he said it 13,693 times so it’s obviously going to happen. And now it’s happened and we’ve managed to get boat arrivals down to an annual rate of half a million
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,344
    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    I AM STILL MIFFED ABOUT THAT EPISODE

    Why?
    Multiple reasons
    • Ncuti's reign was hyper, everything was Sunny Delight and insufficient quiet drama.
    • He never met the Daleks, the Cybermen, nor the Weeping Angels
    • The ending was rushed and obviously forced.
    • The discourse and leaks indicated that they were planning to start filming the next series in Q1 2025 but Disney got cold feet, Ncuti decided to jump ship, and reshoots in February filled in the regeneration. It shows.
    • Given the urgency, I doubt they auditioned widely and Billie may simply have been the first to hand who was available and willing to work with RTD. I assume if more time was available they'd've cast Russell Tovey (RTD's original chice for Eleven before Moffat cast Matt Smith)
    • The Ruby/Belinda problem (Millie couldn't take the workload and her role was scaled back despite guarantees to her that it wouldn't happen, requiring Belinda as an emergency companion and frantic rewrites) was obvious in this episode. Millie should have been John Smith's "wife" and Poppy bonding with her instead of Belinda would have made more sense.
    • Shenanigans again. RTD does not run a tight ship. In his first run in the Noughties Eccleston pissed off and hates RTD, Martha (Freema Agyeman) was fired for no good reason, John Barrowman was rubbing his penis against everybody (yes, that really happened), and now it's happened again in the 2020s. The shenanigans, not the penis. Probably.
    • I don't like the idea of a surprise regeneration.
    • The regeneration itself was forced. In normal circs he would have done something sciencey/timey wimey and made Poppy reappear, not a forced suicide.
    • RTD has gone full fanboy. Susan? Omega? The Rani? Seriously??? No wonder the viewers switched off.
    • Archie Panjabi must be resurrected somehow. I insist.
    • Hanging plotlines. Rogue was badly resolved. Susan was unresolved (the original ending had her in the background, leaning into series 16/3)
    I’ve stopped watching after the first or second episode this run.

    It’s just so unengaging. All of my friends who like the show and are fans have stopped watching before me.

    I fully expect Rose/Piper to be some crap to do with tardis energy from the time eccleston regenerated.

    I am going to watch the last episode this morning instead of this weeks Z Cars and Cpt Scarlet on Talking Pictures.

    I don’t blame Gatwa for bailing. He’s clearly a talented actor and charismatic. Don’t want to get lumbered with a dud.

    I love the idea that RTD who succesfully resurrected the series has come back and buried it.

    In the words of Gorilla Monsoon, put a fork in it, it’s done.
    Modern Who is waaaay too full of introverted story arc nonsense about itself. You still get brilliant episodes where they go to a planet / civilisation with weird shit going on for the Doctor to sort but only occasionally.

    I am not interested in ooh look who we brought back. Disney gave you a mega budget. Spent it on adventures in time and space! Not fan cosplay wankfests.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,461
    Boats are going to be Starmer’s next calamitous disaster
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,978
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    1200 boat people in one day. That’s an annual rate of 438,000

    Sub-optimal

    Gangs smashed.
    That's Labour's plan for change in action.
    SMASH THE GANGS

    Remember, he said it 13,693 times so it’s obviously going to happen. And now it’s happened and we’ve managed to get boat arrivals down to an annual rate of half a million
    Well we've got that Admiral of the small boats controller border hyper command dude now going FURTHER and FASTER
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,858
    edited June 1
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    That's the point. Recruits can get the same money stacking shelves and go home at night. You don't take the King's shilling for the money, you do it for the lifestyle. Join the army and see the world (more specifically, see that part of the world called Catterick). Join the navy and travel the globe underwater for a year.
    The shelf stackers - if not living with mum and dad - will have to drop a grand a month on rent, council tax and bills, and a job that never goes anywhere.

    Not so in the Army.
    It seems to me that wanting to join the armed forces is very geared to culture. Particular sorts from particular backgrounds want to sign up, across the social spectrum. It forms part of a background in family and who else you know and like.

    I wonder if that pool is declining. In particular I think there are cultural reasons why a larger number of parents think that the opportunity of having their child/children killed in combat is not for them.

    It's a bit like going to church. Quite a few people think that it's a good thing for other people to do.

    We are also much more critical of the idea that in wars one side is absolutely right and the other one absolutely wrong; and much more critical of 'my country right or wrong.'

    An armed invasion would alter all that of course.
    That's a good point. And to that of @Battlebus there is still a fair bit of that in Sikh and Gurkha communities.

    I'm not sure about the last bit. Society goes through phases but the UK was very pacifist in the 1930s, there was that famous Oxford Union motion, and as you say, when the chips are down - things change.

    My bigger concern is that people don't identify with or value the UK period, due to the bilge young people are now fed in schools, universities and by professional EDI'ers.
    The simple imperial propaganda of older times simply doesn't wash any more. There are far more sources of information now for Joe Bloggs than The Sun.

    That 18.9% of Other Ranks are from non-white backgrounds shows that you don't have to be white to want to fight for Britain.
    But that 18.9% is pretty rubbish if you consider poverty and demographics.

    If the Army was recruiting from deprivation like it used to, a very large proportion of recruits would be of a Pakistani background.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,126
    edited June 1
    Leon said:

    1200 boat people in one day. That’s an annual rate of 438,000

    Sub-optimal

    Are you that comprehensively thick or malign to believe that equation is how it works? The small boats crossings are particularly prevalent at present due to optimal weather conditions they won't be such in the bleak midwinter. But on your wider point the small boats remains a stick with which Farage can beat both this and the last Government.

    As for you assertion that the Telegraph headline is sub optimal for Starmer. Have you not noticed that there are at least 93 sub-optimal headlines for Starmer in each edition of the Telegraph?
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,740

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    I AM STILL MIFFED ABOUT THAT EPISODE

    Why?
    Multiple reasons
    • Ncuti's reign was hyper, everything was Sunny Delight and insufficient quiet drama.
    • He never met the Daleks, the Cybermen, nor the Weeping Angels
    • The ending was rushed and obviously forced.
    • The discourse and leaks indicated that they were planning to start filming the next series in Q1 2025 but Disney got cold feet, Ncuti decided to jump ship, and reshoots in February filled in the regeneration. It shows.
    • Given the urgency, I doubt they auditioned widely and Billie may simply have been the first to hand who was available and willing to work with RTD. I assume if more time was available they'd've cast Russell Tovey (RTD's original chice for Eleven before Moffat cast Matt Smith)
    • The Ruby/Belinda problem (Millie couldn't take the workload and her role was scaled back despite guarantees to her that it wouldn't happen, requiring Belinda as an emergency companion and frantic rewrites) was obvious in this episode. Millie should have been John Smith's "wife" and Poppy bonding with her instead of Belinda would have made more sense.
    • Shenanigans again. RTD does not run a tight ship. In his first run in the Noughties Eccleston pissed off and hates RTD, Martha (Freema Agyeman) was fired for no good reason, John Barrowman was rubbing his penis against everybody (yes, that really happened), and now it's happened again in the 2020s. The shenanigans, not the penis. Probably.
    • I don't like the idea of a surprise regeneration.
    • The regeneration itself was forced. In normal circs he would have done something sciencey/timey wimey and made Poppy reappear, not a forced suicide.
    • RTD has gone full fanboy. Susan? Omega? The Rani? Seriously??? No wonder the viewers switched off.
    • Archie Panjabi must be resurrected somehow. I insist.
    • Hanging plotlines. Rogue was badly resolved. Susan was unresolved (the original ending had her in the background, leaning into series 16/3)
    I’ve stopped watching after the first or second episode this run.

    It’s just so unengaging. All of my friends who like the show and are fans have stopped watching before me.

    I fully expect Rose/Piper to be some crap to do with tardis energy from the time eccleston regenerated.

    I am going to watch the last episode this morning instead of this weeks Z Cars and Cpt Scarlet on Talking Pictures.

    I don’t blame Gatwa for bailing. He’s clearly a talented actor and charismatic. Don’t want to get lumbered with a dud.
    The last episode isn’t going to make much sense if you’ve not watched the rest of the season.
    I long since gave up on expecting Nu Who to make sense when I watched it.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,858
    Leon said:

    Jesus. Some really violent shit happened in France last night. The videos are on X

    your algos are rotting your brain. we can watch it happen in real time
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,740

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    I AM STILL MIFFED ABOUT THAT EPISODE

    Why?
    Multiple reasons
    • Ncuti's reign was hyper, everything was Sunny Delight and insufficient quiet drama.
    • He never met the Daleks, the Cybermen, nor the Weeping Angels
    • The ending was rushed and obviously forced.
    • The discourse and leaks indicated that they were planning to start filming the next series in Q1 2025 but Disney got cold feet, Ncuti decided to jump ship, and reshoots in February filled in the regeneration. It shows.
    • Given the urgency, I doubt they auditioned widely and Billie may simply have been the first to hand who was available and willing to work with RTD. I assume if more time was available they'd've cast Russell Tovey (RTD's original chice for Eleven before Moffat cast Matt Smith)
    • The Ruby/Belinda problem (Millie couldn't take the workload and her role was scaled back despite guarantees to her that it wouldn't happen, requiring Belinda as an emergency companion and frantic rewrites) was obvious in this episode. Millie should have been John Smith's "wife" and Poppy bonding with her instead of Belinda would have made more sense.
    • Shenanigans again. RTD does not run a tight ship. In his first run in the Noughties Eccleston pissed off and hates RTD, Martha (Freema Agyeman) was fired for no good reason, John Barrowman was rubbing his penis against everybody (yes, that really happened), and now it's happened again in the 2020s. The shenanigans, not the penis. Probably.
    • I don't like the idea of a surprise regeneration.
    • The regeneration itself was forced. In normal circs he would have done something sciencey/timey wimey and made Poppy reappear, not a forced suicide.
    • RTD has gone full fanboy. Susan? Omega? The Rani? Seriously??? No wonder the viewers switched off.
    • Archie Panjabi must be resurrected somehow. I insist.
    • Hanging plotlines. Rogue was badly resolved. Susan was unresolved (the original ending had her in the background, leaning into series 16/3)
    I’ve stopped watching after the first or second episode this run.

    It’s just so unengaging. All of my friends who like the show and are fans have stopped watching before me.

    I fully expect Rose/Piper to be some crap to do with tardis energy from the time eccleston regenerated.

    I am going to watch the last episode this morning instead of this weeks Z Cars and Cpt Scarlet on Talking Pictures.

    I don’t blame Gatwa for bailing. He’s clearly a talented actor and charismatic. Don’t want to get lumbered with a dud.

    I love the idea that RTD who succesfully resurrected the series has come back and buried it.

    In the words of Gorilla Monsoon, put a fork in it, it’s done.
    Modern Who is waaaay too full of introverted story arc nonsense about itself. You still get brilliant episodes where they go to a planet / civilisation with weird shit going on for the Doctor to sort but only occasionally.

    I am not interested in ooh look who we brought back. Disney gave you a mega budget. Spent it on adventures in time and space! Not fan cosplay wankfests.
    Sadly I can only like this post once.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,126
    Leon said:

    Boats are going to be Starmer’s next calamitous disaster

    They are already the reason that Farage is flying high and Labour are failing and the Conservatives have failed, although Jenrick coming out in future with "strafe the boats" performative cruelty may reverse that.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,508
    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    As I said on the previous thread, having missed the new one, it seems very odd that 37% of the vote (SNP +Greens) is only 1 off a majority in a partly proportional system. I personally doubt they would be that close but we shall see in due course.

    Swinney is doing his best not to govern or do anything controversial about anything. He makes Starmer and his government look ultra dynamic. This quietude, in fairness, has stabilised things from the lunatic days of Yousless and the latter Sturgeon but at the price of none of Scotland's multitude of problems being addressed.

    If the SNP and Scotland really want independence they would focus on running the many things delegated to Scotland brilliantly well. The stuff that people care about and changes votes. Stuff like health, public health and civil order (though Scotland I am sure has drink, drugs and gang violence sorted), education, domestic abuse, pot holes.

    Thse are the things which show voters that politics is more than moaning about 'resources'. Quality of leadership makes a huge difference.

    It would not be hard to perform better than England in all these matters. Would it?
    Harder than you might think and certainly far too hard for the SNP to even attempt from the time the blessed Nicola took over the reins. To address almost all of these problems requires taking on vested interests and the SNP have avoided that wherever possible. Far better to spend tens of millions arguing about what a woman is.
    Yes! I have a family member working as a family and children social worker in a Scottish city, and another whose work is closely involved with the Scottish prison service.

    No illusions.
    Of all the multitude of disasters we have endured and tried to put into the long grass (we now even have an inquiry into the number and costs of inquiries, Kafka would blush) the one that distresses me most is education.

    Their long term reluctance to take on the EIS means we have a regulatory system designed to say how wonderful our failing schools are, we have no pressure on them at all to improve, we have a college system that has been wreaked beyond repair with teaching qualifications reduced from degree to GCSE levels and a ruthless determination to pass everyone, even those that don't turn up, a seriously underfunded University sector being forced to provide education at a loss to Scottish students and now finding that the international funding they used to balance the books is drying up, the list of problems at every level is endless. And no one is willing to even try to anything about it. The economic consequences of this are simply horrendous.
    Thanks for this. From my perspective in the far north of England, the Scottish universities and historic culture of education in Scotland seem to me an wholly admirable, and I am aware of bits in the system valiantly hanging on. Two members of my family owe a lot to Edinburgh university, which served them well not all that long ago.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452

    algarkirk said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    That's the point. Recruits can get the same money stacking shelves and go home at night. You don't take the King's shilling for the money, you do it for the lifestyle. Join the army and see the world (more specifically, see that part of the world called Catterick). Join the navy and travel the globe underwater for a year.
    The shelf stackers - if not living with mum and dad - will have to drop a grand a month on rent, council tax and bills, and a job that never goes anywhere.

    Not so in the Army.
    It seems to me that wanting to join the armed forces is very geared to culture. Particular sorts from particular backgrounds want to sign up, across the social spectrum. It forms part of a background in family and who else you know and like.

    I wonder if that pool is declining. In particular I think there are cultural reasons why a larger number of parents think that the opportunity of having their child/children killed in combat is not for them.

    It's a bit like going to church. Quite a few people think that it's a good thing for other people to do.

    We are also much more critical of the idea that in wars one side is absolutely right and the other one absolutely wrong; and much more critical of 'my country right or wrong.'

    An armed invasion would alter all that of course.
    That's a good point. And to that of @Battlebus there is still a fair bit of that in Sikh and Gurkha communities.

    I'm not sure about the last bit. Society goes through phases but the UK was very pacifist in the 1930s, there was that famous Oxford Union motion, and as you say, when the chips are down - things change.

    My bigger concern is that people don't identify with or value the UK period, due to the bilge young people are now fed in schools, universities and by professional EDI'ers.
    I assume that you’re a member of a local TA unit?
    I'm 43 mate
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,597
    Leon said:

    Fully self drive cars are here. Finally


    https://www.wsj.com/tech/waymo-cars-self-driving-robotaxi-tesla-uber-0777f570


    The increase in usage is now exponential - doubling every few months and overtaking human taxi drivers. This will now sweep the world

    They aren't actually HERE as such - they're in a few cities in the western US with mostly wide, straight roads, sunny, dry weather, fewer cyclists and a culture of not jaywalking unpredictably on anything like the scale in the UK.

    So I think it'll be much more challenging to have them over here, although I'd be happy to be proved wrong.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,452
    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    That's the point. Recruits can get the same money stacking shelves and go home at night. You don't take the King's shilling for the money, you do it for the lifestyle. Join the army and see the world (more specifically, see that part of the world called Catterick). Join the navy and travel the globe underwater for a year.
    The shelf stackers - if not living with mum and dad - will have to drop a grand a month on rent, council tax and bills, and a job that never goes anywhere.

    Not so in the Army.
    It seems to me that wanting to join the armed forces is very geared to culture. Particular sorts from particular backgrounds want to sign up, across the social spectrum. It forms part of a background in family and who else you know and like.

    I wonder if that pool is declining. In particular I think there are cultural reasons why a larger number of parents think that the opportunity of having their child/children killed in combat is not for them.

    It's a bit like going to church. Quite a few people think that it's a good thing for other people to do.

    We are also much more critical of the idea that in wars one side is absolutely right and the other one absolutely wrong; and much more critical of 'my country right or wrong.'

    An armed invasion would alter all that of course.
    That's a good point. And to that of @Battlebus there is still a fair bit of that in Sikh and Gurkha communities.

    I'm not sure about the last bit. Society goes through phases but the UK was very pacifist in the 1930s, there was that famous Oxford Union motion, and as you say, when the chips are down - things change.

    My bigger concern is that people don't identify with or value the UK period, due to the bilge young people are now fed in schools, universities and by professional EDI'ers.
    The simple imperial propaganda of older times simply doesn't wash any more. There are far more sources of information now for Joe Bloggs than The Sun.

    That 18.9% of Other Ranks are from non-white backgrounds shows that you don't have to be white to want to fight for Britain.
    But that 18.9% is pretty rubbish if you consider poverty and demographics.

    If the Army was recruiting from deprivation like it used to, a very large proportion of recruits would be of a Pakistani background.
    Why do you see it as a measure of success that the more non-white something is the better it must be?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,508
    Just to note a shift in climate, with a single instance. On the whole the world, including the USA media, have stopped talking about Abrego Garcia. He is still in prison in El Salvador. Even the very anti-Trump media/blogs/pods pay it little attention.

    We are getting used to the new reality. Very sad.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,978
    Rentoul and Hodges are going to war over Blair and the Working Class. Journo on Journo action
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,344
    The problem with the boats situation is that many of the proposed solutions aren’t viable. There is an expectation from the angry that leaving the EHRC stops the boats - it doesn’t. That we just “send them back” - we can’t. That “stop the benefits” will dissuade them - no benefits paid to be stopped.

    Britain is not on its own here. Refugees is a pan-European problem caused by the enshittification of large parts of the world. And we don’t even get vast numbers of them - less than our neighbours.

    We need migration. But we need to control it. The Tory points system just opened the door wide and we have the boats coming because the Tories removed legal routes. So a complete rethink is needed not tow backs.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,126

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    That's the point. Recruits can get the same money stacking shelves and go home at night. You don't take the King's shilling for the money, you do it for the lifestyle. Join the army and see the world (more specifically, see that part of the world called Catterick). Join the navy and travel the globe underwater for a year.
    The shelf stackers - if not living with mum and dad - will have to drop a grand a month on rent, council tax and bills, and a job that never goes anywhere.

    Not so in the Army.
    It seems to me that wanting to join the armed forces is very geared to culture. Particular sorts from particular backgrounds want to sign up, across the social spectrum. It forms part of a background in family and who else you know and like.

    I wonder if that pool is declining. In particular I think there are cultural reasons why a larger number of parents think that the opportunity of having their child/children killed in combat is not for them.

    It's a bit like going to church. Quite a few people think that it's a good thing for other people to do.

    We are also much more critical of the idea that in wars one side is absolutely right and the other one absolutely wrong; and much more critical of 'my country right or wrong.'

    An armed invasion would alter all that of course.
    That's a good point. And to that of @Battlebus there is still a fair bit of that in Sikh and Gurkha communities.

    I'm not sure about the last bit. Society goes through phases but the UK was very pacifist in the 1930s, there was that famous Oxford Union motion, and as you say, when the chips are down - things change.

    My bigger concern is that people don't identify with or value the UK period, due to the bilge young people are now fed in schools, universities and by professional EDI'ers.
    The simple imperial propaganda of older times simply doesn't wash any more. There are far more sources of information now for Joe Bloggs than The Sun.

    That 18.9% of Other Ranks are from non-white backgrounds shows that you don't have to be white to want to fight for Britain.
    But that 18.9% is pretty rubbish if you consider poverty and demographics.

    If the Army was recruiting from deprivation like it used to, a very large proportion of recruits would be of a Pakistani background.
    Why do you see it as a measure of success that the more non-white something is the better it must be?
    I don't believe his argument is a racial one, more a suggestion that the social demographic that was previously drawn from by military recruiters would now (you would think) include more ethnic minorities.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,344
    I was entertained by another is he drunk again Matt Vickers post on Twitter. Ranting on about the shame of the boat figures under Labour. With response after response after response angrily pointing out they were just as bad when he was in government doing nothing about it.

    There is a seething anger out there. But it isn’t at the government where the Tories will cash in. It’s against the LabCon where Reform will cash in.

    What parties like mine need to do is propose the blank sheet of paper reforms. Outflank Reform by thinking. Farage will fall flat because he doesn’t actually have workable policies. But the need is there, so let’s write them.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,126

    The problem with the boats situation is that many of the proposed solutions aren’t viable. There is an expectation from the angry that leaving the EHRC stops the boats - it doesn’t. That we just “send them back” - we can’t. That “stop the benefits” will dissuade them - no benefits paid to be stopped.

    Britain is not on its own here. Refugees is a pan-European problem caused by the enshittification of large parts of the world. And we don’t even get vast numbers of them - less than our neighbours.

    We need migration. But we need to control it. The Tory points system just opened the door wide and we have the boats coming because the Tories removed legal routes. So a complete rethink is needed not tow backs.

    But performative cruelty headlines sell newspapers and win MEGA votes.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,625
    You feel sorry for the sensible businesswoman on LK this morning, having to sit alongside incompetent Simon Case and shamless Shami
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,784

    algarkirk said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    You say not bad but it is roughly national minimum wage for a 40-hour week.

    40 hours? That's a fucking laugh. After a normal minium wage job you get to go to the pub or play PS5. After your day's bloody hard graft as an infanteer you get to drink water and iron your uniform to an unbelievably high standard.
    That's the point. Recruits can get the same money stacking shelves and go home at night. You don't take the King's shilling for the money, you do it for the lifestyle. Join the army and see the world (more specifically, see that part of the world called Catterick). Join the navy and travel the globe underwater for a year.
    The shelf stackers - if not living with mum and dad - will have to drop a grand a month on rent, council tax and bills, and a job that never goes anywhere.

    Not so in the Army.
    It seems to me that wanting to join the armed forces is very geared to culture. Particular sorts from particular backgrounds want to sign up, across the social spectrum. It forms part of a background in family and who else you know and like.

    I wonder if that pool is declining. In particular I think there are cultural reasons why a larger number of parents think that the opportunity of having their child/children killed in combat is not for them.

    It's a bit like going to church. Quite a few people think that it's a good thing for other people to do.

    We are also much more critical of the idea that in wars one side is absolutely right and the other one absolutely wrong; and much more critical of 'my country right or wrong.'

    An armed invasion would alter all that of course.
    That's a good point. And to that of @Battlebus there is still a fair bit of that in Sikh and Gurkha communities.

    I'm not sure about the last bit. Society goes through phases but the UK was very pacifist in the 1930s, there was that famous Oxford Union motion, and as you say, when the chips are down - things change.

    My bigger concern is that people don't identify with or value the UK period, due to the bilge young people are now fed in schools, universities and by professional EDI'ers.
    I assume that you’re a member of a local TA unit?
    I'm 43 mate
    You’ve got 7 years then.
    What about when you were 33 or 23?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,588
    Reform on Trevor Phillips just now

    £300 - £400 billion cuts in their first term ????????????
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,390
    Leon said:

    Boats are going to be Starmer’s next calamitous disaster

    "Going" to be??
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,978
    Starmer will almost certainly give a speech on immigration and tell us he 'gets it'. Interspersed with his fever dreams about Nigel.
    It's gof to be reshuffle soon too, the old big red reset button
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,588

    Starmer will almost certainly give a speech on immigration and tell us he 'gets it'. Interspersed with his fever dreams about Nigel.
    It's gof to be reshuffle soon too, the old big red reset button

    And his father was a tool maker !!!!!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,126
    edited June 1

    I was entertained by another is he drunk again Matt Vickers post on Twitter. Ranting on about the shame of the boat figures under Labour. With response after response after response angrily pointing out they were just as bad when he was in government doing nothing about it.

    There is a seething anger out there. But it isn’t at the government where the Tories will cash in. It’s against the LabCon where Reform will cash in.

    What parties like mine need to do is propose the blank sheet of paper reforms. Outflank Reform by thinking. Farage will fall flat because he doesn’t actually have workable policies. But the need is there, so let’s write them.

    Trump has shown you that workable policies are a sideshow for populists.

    Say nasty things about foreigners whilst the economy, health, defence, social cohesion and education collapse around the politician in question and he loses not a vote. And that could be a lesson for Farage.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,206
    Could Starmer "Only Nixon can go to China" on derogating from parts of the ECHR?

    Probably not.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,978
    carnforth said:

    Could Starmer "Only Nixon can go to China" on derogating from parts of the ECHR?

    Probably not.

    No, he's a human rights lawyer first and a very shit PM second
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