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Reform, no joy just division. Will Lowe tear us apart? – politicalbetting.com

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  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,007
    edited May 14
    nico67 said:

    If rumours are correct it looks like the UK government are willing to provoke the “ Brexit betrayal “ tirades from the right wing press in an effort to give a boost to growth .

    And of course the OBR will factor in any easing of trade barriers with the EU to its forecasts so this could help Reeves .

    There are two appropriate ways to engage:

    1. To help make the rules, and to be bound by them.
    2. To not be involved in making the rules, and to not be bound by them.

    Dynamic alignment is not a brexit betrayal. It's a betrayal of democracy.

    Staying in the EEA, for example - a very soft brexit - is not betrayal of brexit. So it's not about soft or hard. It's about who governs and on whose authority.

    I hope that, if Starmer does sign up to this, he at least gets what the EEA gets - full technical involvement in the rulemaking comittees but no vote.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,239
    carnforth said:

    nico67 said:

    If rumours are correct it looks like the UK government are willing to provoke the “ Brexit betrayal “ tirades from the right wing press in an effort to give a boost to growth .

    And of course the OBR will factor in any easing of trade barriers with the EU to its forecasts so this could help Reeves .

    There are two appropriate ways to engage:

    1. To help make the rules, and to be bound by them.
    2. To not be involved in making the rules, and to not be bound by them.

    Dynamic alignment is not a brexit betrayal. It's a betrayal of democracy.

    Staying in the EEA, for example - a very soft brexit - is not betrayal of brexit. So it's not about soft or hard. It's about who governs and on whose authority.

    I hope that, if Starmer does sign up to this, he at least gets what the EEA gets - full technical involvement in the rulemaking comittees but no vote.
    Probably need FoM for that, (which I think would be great, but sadly not politically doable at the moment).
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,391
    carnforth said:

    nico67 said:

    If rumours are correct it looks like the UK government are willing to provoke the “ Brexit betrayal “ tirades from the right wing press in an effort to give a boost to growth .

    And of course the OBR will factor in any easing of trade barriers with the EU to its forecasts so this could help Reeves .

    There are two appropriate ways to engage:

    1. To help make the rules, and to be bound by them.
    2. To not be involved in making the rules, and to not be bound by them.

    Dynamic alignment is not a brexit betrayal. It's a betrayal of democracy.

    Staying in the EEA, for example - a very soft brexit - is not betrayal of brexit. So it's not about soft or hard. It's about who governs and on whose authority.

    I hope that, if Starmer does sign up to this, he at least gets what the EEA gets - full technical involvement in the rulemaking comittees but no vote.
    The argument against dynamic alignment by the Brexiteers was it would stop the UK making trade deals . Given the India deal this negates that argument somewhat . It’s not clear whether DA would be just for agriculture and fisheries or on goods aswell.

    I don’t think the public really care much for the minutiae of trade in terms of DA .

    Reeves is desperate for growth and the quickest route to increasing that is with the EU . Nothing else even comes close .
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,007
    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    nico67 said:

    If rumours are correct it looks like the UK government are willing to provoke the “ Brexit betrayal “ tirades from the right wing press in an effort to give a boost to growth .

    And of course the OBR will factor in any easing of trade barriers with the EU to its forecasts so this could help Reeves .

    There are two appropriate ways to engage:

    1. To help make the rules, and to be bound by them.
    2. To not be involved in making the rules, and to not be bound by them.

    Dynamic alignment is not a brexit betrayal. It's a betrayal of democracy.

    Staying in the EEA, for example - a very soft brexit - is not betrayal of brexit. So it's not about soft or hard. It's about who governs and on whose authority.

    I hope that, if Starmer does sign up to this, he at least gets what the EEA gets - full technical involvement in the rulemaking comittees but no vote.
    Probably need FoM for that, (which I think would be great, but sadly not politically doable at the moment).
    Yes, I have no idea if it's technically feasible. The EU has a difficulty in these negotiations in that, sometimes, they simply can't agree to things because of pre-existing treaties or legal structures. We are not so encumbered, because parliament can simply pass what is required.

    Sometimes, of course, the EU pretends it can't do something when it means it simply doesn't want to. But that's a slightly separate issue.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,007
    nico67 said:

    carnforth said:

    nico67 said:

    If rumours are correct it looks like the UK government are willing to provoke the “ Brexit betrayal “ tirades from the right wing press in an effort to give a boost to growth .

    And of course the OBR will factor in any easing of trade barriers with the EU to its forecasts so this could help Reeves .

    There are two appropriate ways to engage:

    1. To help make the rules, and to be bound by them.
    2. To not be involved in making the rules, and to not be bound by them.

    Dynamic alignment is not a brexit betrayal. It's a betrayal of democracy.

    Staying in the EEA, for example - a very soft brexit - is not betrayal of brexit. So it's not about soft or hard. It's about who governs and on whose authority.

    I hope that, if Starmer does sign up to this, he at least gets what the EEA gets - full technical involvement in the rulemaking comittees but no vote.
    The argument against dynamic alignment by the Brexiteers was it would stop the UK making trade deals . Given the India deal this negates that argument somewhat . It’s not clear whether DA would be just for agriculture and fisheries or on goods aswell.

    I don’t think the public really care much for the minutiae of trade in terms of DA .

    Reeves is desperate for growth and the quickest route to increasing that is with the EU . Nothing else even comes close .
    The public may not care; but they should.

    I suspect the trade deal angle is a little overblown: these countries also trade with the EU after all.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,007
    nico67 said:

    carnforth said:

    nico67 said:

    If rumours are correct it looks like the UK government are willing to provoke the “ Brexit betrayal “ tirades from the right wing press in an effort to give a boost to growth .

    And of course the OBR will factor in any easing of trade barriers with the EU to its forecasts so this could help Reeves .

    There are two appropriate ways to engage:

    1. To help make the rules, and to be bound by them.
    2. To not be involved in making the rules, and to not be bound by them.

    Dynamic alignment is not a brexit betrayal. It's a betrayal of democracy.

    Staying in the EEA, for example - a very soft brexit - is not betrayal of brexit. So it's not about soft or hard. It's about who governs and on whose authority.

    I hope that, if Starmer does sign up to this, he at least gets what the EEA gets - full technical involvement in the rulemaking comittees but no vote.
    The argument against dynamic alignment by the Brexiteers was it would stop the UK making trade deals . Given the India deal this negates that argument somewhat . It’s not clear whether DA would be just for agriculture and fisheries or on goods aswell.

    I don’t think the public really care much for the minutiae of trade in terms of DA .

    Reeves is desperate for growth and the quickest route to increasing that is with the EU . Nothing else even comes close .
    We are predicted to be the fastest growing european G7 member for each of the next five years. Granted, the predictions are for pretty anaemic growth, so I take your point.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,904
    "Britain | Bagehot
    A world without Nigel Farage
    British politics hinges on one man’s survival" (£)

    https://www.economist.com/britain/2025/05/14/a-world-without-nigel-farage
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,815
    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    Emilia Romagna to Flaine. What’s interesting is there are no direct flights I can see to Geneva from any nearby airports. Flaine is only just over an hour from Geneva. So you either fly somewhere further, like Lyon as @rcs1000 says, or drive.

    I’d hire a car and go all the way to Flaine and park. The prices would be way lower even in you don’t use your car for the week (we always use our car when skiing, for little afternoon trips out). If not, drop off the car at Chamonix or Sallanches. But that probably costs more.

    Public transport is complicated but you could go to Milan, then Chambery, then get a taxi from there or Annecy.

    Or book a ski holiday in Cortina and have a nice shortish taxi ride.

    The ski holiday was almost certainly booked before Mr Lammy discovered he would be in Bologna. Otherwise Cortina or Cervinia would make much more sense.
    Yes I assume so.

    But I love these travel logistics challenges. It’s like race across the world (on in 15 minutes).

    Always more fun attempting public transport in these situations. London to Amsterdam is an example: boring flight to Schiphol, or the train to Brussels and change, or for the really adventurous get the Harwich ferry?

    EDIT: or by the time I next need to go to Amsterdam in June I might have a new EV, so perhaps I should make it a road trip via Calais.

    My son is somehow getting to our house outside Cluny next month with his friends on public transport that I didn’t even realise existed. There’s a bus you have to ring up to book.
    I travelled to Lisbon by train a few years ago, even though it was a lot more awkward than flying.
    Surely that depends on where you start from.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,904
    edited 12:29AM
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    Emilia Romagna to Flaine. What’s interesting is there are no direct flights I can see to Geneva from any nearby airports. Flaine is only just over an hour from Geneva. So you either fly somewhere further, like Lyon as @rcs1000 says, or drive.

    I’d hire a car and go all the way to Flaine and park. The prices would be way lower even in you don’t use your car for the week (we always use our car when skiing, for little afternoon trips out). If not, drop off the car at Chamonix or Sallanches. But that probably costs more.

    Public transport is complicated but you could go to Milan, then Chambery, then get a taxi from there or Annecy.

    Or book a ski holiday in Cortina and have a nice shortish taxi ride.

    The ski holiday was almost certainly booked before Mr Lammy discovered he would be in Bologna. Otherwise Cortina or Cervinia would make much more sense.
    Yes I assume so.

    But I love these travel logistics challenges. It’s like race across the world (on in 15 minutes).

    Always more fun attempting public transport in these situations. London to Amsterdam is an example: boring flight to Schiphol, or the train to Brussels and change, or for the really adventurous get the Harwich ferry?

    EDIT: or by the time I next need to go to Amsterdam in June I might have a new EV, so perhaps I should make it a road trip via Calais.

    My son is somehow getting to our house outside Cluny next month with his friends on public transport that I didn’t even realise existed. There’s a bus you have to ring up to book.
    I travelled to Lisbon by train a few years ago, even though it was a lot more awkward than flying.
    Surely that depends on where you start from.
    Central England. True, the journey from there to London is sometimes unbearable, lol.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,543
    edited 1:27AM
    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    Why is the UK so utterly hopeless when it comes to rail infrastructure projects or providing a fast and efficient reasonable priced rail service for travellers compared to other countries?
    The same reason we fail catastrophically to build enough housing and can't generate sustainable economic growth - we have by far the worst national planning system in the developed world (though some American localities come close), one deliberately designed to stifle development.

    And a craven embarrassment of a political class that knows exactly what needs to be done, but is far too spineless to do it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,587
    edited 3:41AM
    I spend thousands on tutors for my child - it's still cheaper than private school

    Private tutoring is booming, with parents paying out to ensure their children thrive in squeezed state schools - but is it lowering their resilience?

    A recent survey from the educational charity Sutton Trust found that 21 per cent of GCSE pupils are having additional private tutoring, compared to just 10 per cent a decade ago.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/spend-thousands-tutors-child-cheaper-private-school-3666918
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,985
    edited 4:08AM

    I spend thousands on tutors for my child - it's still cheaper than private school

    Private tutoring is booming, with parents paying out to ensure their children thrive in squeezed state schools - but is it lowering their resilience?

    A recent survey from the educational charity Sutton Trust found that 21 per cent of GCSE pupils are having additional private tutoring, compared to just 10 per cent a decade ago.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/spend-thousands-tutors-child-cheaper-private-school-3666918

    I was talking to a PhD student the other week and they do private tutoring to help supplement their stipend. There is so much demand for their services they could literally tutor morning, noon and night, 7 days a week. They do have a 1st class degree in Maths from Cambridge and doing a PhD in Maths so I presumed perhaps that might have meant their experience was an outlier, but perhaps not.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,587

    I spend thousands on tutors for my child - it's still cheaper than private school

    Private tutoring is booming, with parents paying out to ensure their children thrive in squeezed state schools - but is it lowering their resilience?

    A recent survey from the educational charity Sutton Trust found that 21 per cent of GCSE pupils are having additional private tutoring, compared to just 10 per cent a decade ago.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/spend-thousands-tutors-child-cheaper-private-school-3666918

    I was talking to a PhD student the other week and they do private tutoring to help supplement their stipend. There is so much demand for their services they could literally tutor morning, noon and night, 7 days a week. They do have a 1st class degree in Maths from Cambridge and doing a PhD in Maths so I presumed perhaps that might have meant their experience was an outlier, but perhaps not.
    Round here there are also, in former shops, several establishments offering small-group tutoring after school hours. Private education is no longer just private schools. But 21 per cent is higher than I'd have guessed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,292
    Musk’s AI Grok bot rants about ‘white genocide’ in South Africa in unrelated chats
    Chatbot goes on hours-long fritz, repeatedly mentioning ‘white genocide’, which it is ‘instructed to accept as real’
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/may/14/elon-musk-grok-white-genocide
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,522
    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    Why is the UK so utterly hopeless when it comes to rail infrastructure projects or providing a fast and efficient reasonable priced rail service for travellers compared to other countries?
    We are not. There are many rail infrastructure projects - renewals and enhancements - that happen on budget and on time, with minimal disruption to the public. Perhaps because they are run by the railways, with minimal interference with the government or government departments. The slow and creeping project to electrify the MML is generally occurring with zero fanfare.

    Some large projects - HS2, the WCML Upgrade, the GWML electrification - have had significant difficulties. But others - for example both phases of HS1 - had much less so.

    As for price: it is complex and depends on journey type and when booked:
    https://www.seat61.com/uk-europe-train-fares-comparison.html
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,404
    edited 5:18AM

    a

    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    For that money, we could build a reusable heavy lift rocket and have our own moon landings. Probably 5x over, if we don’t let BAe near it.
    Going to the moon, launching from Manchester and dropping back into the Thames, might be a quick way to make the journey?

    Google Maps yesterday, when I wanted to check the quickest route to a garden centre on the island that I haven’t used before, while sitting on the ferry heading to the island, came up with a route that involved going back to Portsmouth, getting the ferry to Santander, driving up through Spain and France, getting the Chunnel back to England and driving back to Portsmouth to get the ferry I was already on. And then driving to the garden centre. Altogether taking nearly two days of driving, plus the ferry time.

    Even though it was obviously confused by my being just offshore when I searched, how does a circular route that went through Portsmouth twice make any sort of sense?? (Edit; although having typed this, I realise that clearly it had decided I was already on the ferry to Santander). Maps is outstanding but sometimes it does the weirdest things!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,522

    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    On a point of order, it's not accurate to place Old Oak Common in outer London, given it's in Acton and not far from Notting Hill.
    Old Oak Common is about three minutes by fast train out of Paddington. Why can they not extend HS2 into Paddington rather than cross London to Euston/ Kings Cross sometime in the 2070s?
    From memory in the feasibility reports, Paddington is too cramped, even compared to Euston. Euston did at least have the option to expand. But the whole HS2 into London thing is a bit of a mess, and could have done with some joined-up planning and thinking three decades ago.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,522
    So 'hardman' Putin is too scared to come to peace talks in Ankara.

    The rest of the world should see this as exactly how important Putin sees peace talks. As in, not at all important. Because he does not want peace on anything other than his own terms, and therefore talking about it is pointless. He'll talk after Ukraine capitulates.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,744

    I spend thousands on tutors for my child - it's still cheaper than private school

    Private tutoring is booming, with parents paying out to ensure their children thrive in squeezed state schools - but is it lowering their resilience?

    A recent survey from the educational charity Sutton Trust found that 21 per cent of GCSE pupils are having additional private tutoring, compared to just 10 per cent a decade ago.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/spend-thousands-tutors-child-cheaper-private-school-3666918

    I was talking to a PhD student the other week and they do private tutoring to help supplement their stipend. There is so much demand for their services they could literally tutor morning, noon and night, 7 days a week. They do have a 1st class degree in Maths from Cambridge and doing a PhD in Maths so I presumed perhaps that might have meant their experience was an outlier, but perhaps not.
    It's not an outlier. I'm charging three times what I charged four years ago and I'm still turning down work.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,522

    a

    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    For that money, we could build a reusable heavy lift rocket and have our own moon landings. Probably 5x over, if we don’t let BAe near it.
    Before you can say that, we need SpaceX to build a working reusable heavy lift rocket and for the US to make their own moon landings. Because SpaceX have not yet made a reusable heavy lift rocket, and the US moon landings seem to be further away than ever. And until it's done, we cannot know the costs.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,404

    I spend thousands on tutors for my child - it's still cheaper than private school

    Private tutoring is booming, with parents paying out to ensure their children thrive in squeezed state schools - but is it lowering their resilience?

    A recent survey from the educational charity Sutton Trust found that 21 per cent of GCSE pupils are having additional private tutoring, compared to just 10 per cent a decade ago.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/spend-thousands-tutors-child-cheaper-private-school-3666918

    I was talking to a PhD student the other week and they do private tutoring to help supplement their stipend. There is so much demand for their services they could literally tutor morning, noon and night, 7 days a week. They do have a 1st class degree in Maths from Cambridge and doing a PhD in Maths so I presumed perhaps that might have meant their experience was an outlier, but perhaps not.
    Being a good teacher is presumably the more relevant skill than extremely high levels of qualification in maths? Otherwise a PhD is going to struggle to explain GSCE concepts to a school child.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,744
    edited 5:26AM
    IanB2 said:

    I spend thousands on tutors for my child - it's still cheaper than private school

    Private tutoring is booming, with parents paying out to ensure their children thrive in squeezed state schools - but is it lowering their resilience?

    A recent survey from the educational charity Sutton Trust found that 21 per cent of GCSE pupils are having additional private tutoring, compared to just 10 per cent a decade ago.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/spend-thousands-tutors-child-cheaper-private-school-3666918

    I was talking to a PhD student the other week and they do private tutoring to help supplement their stipend. There is so much demand for their services they could literally tutor morning, noon and night, 7 days a week. They do have a 1st class degree in Maths from Cambridge and doing a PhD in Maths so I presumed perhaps that might have meant their experience was an outlier, but perhaps not.
    Being a good teacher is presumably the more relevant skill than extremely high levels of qualification in maths? Otherwise a PhD is going to struggle to explain GSCE concepts to a school child.
    I think one to one that is less important, although patience would definitely be a virtue to cultivate.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,522
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    I spend thousands on tutors for my child - it's still cheaper than private school

    Private tutoring is booming, with parents paying out to ensure their children thrive in squeezed state schools - but is it lowering their resilience?

    A recent survey from the educational charity Sutton Trust found that 21 per cent of GCSE pupils are having additional private tutoring, compared to just 10 per cent a decade ago.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/spend-thousands-tutors-child-cheaper-private-school-3666918

    I was talking to a PhD student the other week and they do private tutoring to help supplement their stipend. There is so much demand for their services they could literally tutor morning, noon and night, 7 days a week. They do have a 1st class degree in Maths from Cambridge and doing a PhD in Maths so I presumed perhaps that might have meant their experience was an outlier, but perhaps not.
    Being a good teacher is presumably the more relevant skill than extremely high levels of qualification in maths? Otherwise a PhD is going to struggle to explain GSCE concepts to a school child.
    I think one to one that is less important, although patience would definitely be a virtue to cultivate.
    Teaching my son during Covid gave me a belated appreciation for what teachers do. Fortunately my son's a good kid, and is keen to learn, but even then it was hard enough. Teaching a class of thirty tired, hungry kids in hot weather must be difficult - and/or an art in itself.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,847

    So 'hardman' Putin is too scared to come to peace talks in Ankara.

    The rest of the world should see this as exactly how important Putin sees peace talks. As in, not at all important. Because he does not want peace on anything other than his own terms, and therefore talking about it is pointless. He'll talk after Ukraine capitulates.


    He'll talk after his hydrocarbon industry burns to the ground.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,847

    sarissa said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    Emilia Romagna to Flaine. What’s interesting is there are no direct flights I can see to Geneva from any nearby airports. Flaine is only just over an hour from Geneva. So you either fly somewhere further, like Lyon as @rcs1000 says, or drive.

    I’d hire a car and go all the way to Flaine and park. The prices would be way lower even in you don’t use your car for the week (we always use our car when skiing, for little afternoon trips out). If not, drop off the car at Chamonix or Sallanches. But that probably costs more.

    Public transport is complicated but you could go to Milan, then Chambery, then get a taxi from there or Annecy.

    Or book a ski holiday in Cortina and have a nice shortish taxi ride.

    The ski holiday was almost certainly booked before Mr Lammy discovered he would be in Bologna. Otherwise Cortina or Cervinia would make much more sense.
    Yes I assume so.

    But I love these travel logistics challenges. It’s like race across the world (on in 15 minutes).

    Always more fun attempting public transport in these situations. London to Amsterdam is an example: boring flight to Schiphol, or the train to Brussels and change, or for the really adventurous get the Harwich ferry?

    EDIT: or by the time I next need to go to Amsterdam in June I might have a new EV, so perhaps I should make it a road trip via Calais.

    My son is somehow getting to our house outside Cluny next month with his friends on public transport that I didn’t even realise existed. There’s a bus you have to ring up to book.
    Here’s a train trip I’m planning just for the fun of it:


    Don't miss out Ragusa when you are in Sicily!
    Memories of a trip from Derby to Firenze as a student on Interrail. The bit from Newhven to Dieppe was on the same day that 5 sailors died, five boats sank, and at least 75 boats flipped upside down in the Fastnet race in 70 mph winds and 50 foot waves.

    A ferry full of spew...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,522

    So 'hardman' Putin is too scared to come to peace talks in Ankara.

    The rest of the world should see this as exactly how important Putin sees peace talks. As in, not at all important. Because he does not want peace on anything other than his own terms, and therefore talking about it is pointless. He'll talk after Ukraine capitulates.

    He'll talk after his hydrocarbon industry burns to the ground.
    It'd be nice to think that's true, but is it?

    Leaving aside the apparently decreased rate of hits against refineries et al, Putin has shown a massive capacity to let his people suffer for his war. If the economy slumps, why would he care? It is only his people suffering, after all, and their suffering is just a sign of their patriotism...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,847

    So 'hardman' Putin is too scared to come to peace talks in Ankara.

    The rest of the world should see this as exactly how important Putin sees peace talks. As in, not at all important. Because he does not want peace on anything other than his own terms, and therefore talking about it is pointless. He'll talk after Ukraine capitulates.

    He'll talk after his hydrocarbon industry burns to the ground.
    It'd be nice to think that's true, but is it?

    Leaving aside the apparently decreased rate of hits against refineries et al, Putin has shown a massive capacity to let his people suffer for his war. If the economy slumps, why would he care? It is only his people suffering, after all, and their suffering is just a sign of their patriotism...
    As the Ukrainians have been massively ramping up missile and drone capacity that can take out these facilities, there has to be some restraining hand put on Zelensky by the Americans ahead of talks. But they have been majoring on taking out Russian air defences. If they resume, there are going to be fewer defence assets to stop Ukraine burning that hydrocarbon industry to the ground.

    Opec plus has agreed to increased production. That will be able to pump to replace the lack of Russian production.

    Putin's war is funded by oil. End the Russian oil sales, end the war.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,728
    A decent growth number for the first quarter (0.7%), and some big upward revisions for the first half of 2024.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,579
    IanB2 said:

    I spend thousands on tutors for my child - it's still cheaper than private school

    Private tutoring is booming, with parents paying out to ensure their children thrive in squeezed state schools - but is it lowering their resilience?

    A recent survey from the educational charity Sutton Trust found that 21 per cent of GCSE pupils are having additional private tutoring, compared to just 10 per cent a decade ago.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/spend-thousands-tutors-child-cheaper-private-school-3666918

    I was talking to a PhD student the other week and they do private tutoring to help supplement their stipend. There is so much demand for their services they could literally tutor morning, noon and night, 7 days a week. They do have a 1st class degree in Maths from Cambridge and doing a PhD in Maths so I presumed perhaps that might have meant their experience was an outlier, but perhaps not.
    Being a good teacher is presumably the more relevant skill than extremely high levels of qualification in maths? Otherwise a PhD is going to struggle to explain GSCE concepts to a school child.
    It shows what demand there is for education in the country at large.

    While I wouldnt want us to become a hothouse like South Korea, it is probably a good thing.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,579
    Sean_F said:

    A decent growth number for the first quarter (0.7%), and some big upward revisions for the first half of 2024.

    Great news.

    I have very been saying that the gloom is way over done.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,522

    So 'hardman' Putin is too scared to come to peace talks in Ankara.

    The rest of the world should see this as exactly how important Putin sees peace talks. As in, not at all important. Because he does not want peace on anything other than his own terms, and therefore talking about it is pointless. He'll talk after Ukraine capitulates.

    He'll talk after his hydrocarbon industry burns to the ground.
    It'd be nice to think that's true, but is it?

    Leaving aside the apparently decreased rate of hits against refineries et al, Putin has shown a massive capacity to let his people suffer for his war. If the economy slumps, why would he care? It is only his people suffering, after all, and their suffering is just a sign of their patriotism...
    As the Ukrainians have been massively ramping up missile and drone capacity that can take out these facilities, there has to be some restraining hand put on Zelensky by the Americans ahead of talks. But they have been majoring on taking out Russian air defences. If they resume, there are going to be fewer defence assets to stop Ukraine burning that hydrocarbon industry to the ground.

    Opec plus has agreed to increased production. That will be able to pump to replace the lack of Russian production.

    Putin's war is funded by oil. End the Russian oil sales, end the war.
    Again, I'd like to think that. But Russia could continue the war even with a totally tanked economy. All he has to do is let his people suffer - and he has a large capacity to let his people suffer. And sadly, his people have an even larger capacity to let him let them suffer.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,952
    TimS said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    The morning thread also has a subtle music reference in the headline.

    Unlike this thread's header where the headline was as subtle as a Reform Party leaflet about immigration.

    It's also, which is a far worse sin, not the first time you've tried a pun using Joy Division - it was "Gove will tear us apart" last time.

    On a complete tangent, this time last week we were in Cadiz and by the fish market there was a bloke on a guitar playing Sultans of Swing and I realised that tune is nearly 50 years ago. It is the classical music de nos jours and will likely still be played in 50 years time.

    I feel old...
    It's difficult to argue Reform aren't having any joy as well... and who are the "us"?

    Anyway, last year I read up about Sultan's of Swing, interesting back story. Knopfler in a SE London pub watching a crappy jazz band being ignored by half a dozen punters
    The White Swan. Long closed, not far from me and @OnlyLivingBoy
    I was sad to hear the other day that the Mucky Duck has also closed to be redeveloped into offices 😢

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,486
    TimS said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    The morning thread also has a subtle music reference in the headline.

    Unlike this thread's header where the headline was as subtle as a Reform Party leaflet about immigration.

    It's also, which is a far worse sin, not the first time you've tried a pun using Joy Division - it was "Gove will tear us apart" last time.

    On a complete tangent, this time last week we were in Cadiz and by the fish market there was a bloke on a guitar playing Sultans of Swing and I realised that tune is nearly 50 years ago. It is the classical music de nos jours and will likely still be played in 50 years time.

    I feel old...
    It's difficult to argue Reform aren't having any joy as well... and who are the "us"?

    Anyway, last year I read up about Sultan's of Swing, interesting back story. Knopfler in a SE London pub watching a crappy jazz band being ignored by half a dozen punters
    The White Swan. Long closed, not far from me and @OnlyLivingBoy
    Was that in Deptford somewhere? I love Sultans of Swing.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,728

    So 'hardman' Putin is too scared to come to peace talks in Ankara.

    The rest of the world should see this as exactly how important Putin sees peace talks. As in, not at all important. Because he does not want peace on anything other than his own terms, and therefore talking about it is pointless. He'll talk after Ukraine capitulates.

    He'll talk after his hydrocarbon industry burns to the ground.
    It'd be nice to think that's true, but is it?

    Leaving aside the apparently decreased rate of hits against refineries et al, Putin has shown a massive capacity to let his people suffer for his war. If the economy slumps, why would he care? It is only his people suffering, after all, and their suffering is just a sign of their patriotism...
    As the Ukrainians have been massively ramping up missile and drone capacity that can take out these facilities, there has to be some restraining hand put on Zelensky by the Americans ahead of talks. But they have been majoring on taking out Russian air defences. If they resume, there are going to be fewer defence assets to stop Ukraine burning that hydrocarbon industry to the ground.

    Opec plus has agreed to increased production. That will be able to pump to replace the lack of Russian production.

    Putin's war is funded by oil. End the Russian oil sales, end the war.
    Again, I'd like to think that. But Russia could continue the war even with a totally tanked economy. All he has to do is let his people suffer - and he has a large capacity to let his people suffer. And sadly, his people have an even larger capacity to let him let them suffer.
    Russians seem to enjoy suffering on behalf of their autocrats.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,511
    #thanksrachel
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,952
    nico67 said:

    carnforth said:

    nico67 said:

    If rumours are correct it looks like the UK government are willing to provoke the “ Brexit betrayal “ tirades from the right wing press in an effort to give a boost to growth .

    And of course the OBR will factor in any easing of trade barriers with the EU to its forecasts so this could help Reeves .

    There are two appropriate ways to engage:

    1. To help make the rules, and to be bound by them.
    2. To not be involved in making the rules, and to not be bound by them.

    Dynamic alignment is not a brexit betrayal. It's a betrayal of democracy.

    Staying in the EEA, for example - a very soft brexit - is not betrayal of brexit. So it's not about soft or hard. It's about who governs and on whose authority.

    I hope that, if Starmer does sign up to this, he at least gets what the EEA gets - full technical involvement in the rulemaking comittees but no vote.
    The argument against dynamic alignment by the Brexiteers was it would stop the UK making trade deals . Given the India deal this negates that argument somewhat . It’s not clear whether DA would be just for agriculture and fisheries or on goods aswell.

    I don’t think the public really care much for the minutiae of trade in terms of DA .

    Reeves is desperate for growth and the quickest route to increasing that is with the EU . Nothing else even comes close .
    Dynamic alignment is ridiculous. We are both mature economies with a similar mindset on regulation. Equivalence should be fine.

    The issue is around items such as the appropriate application of the precautionary principle - the UK is science driven, the EU less so. Fundamentally this creates a massive tactical advantage for the EU over the UK in the longterm - and one they won’t hesitate to use.

    It would be pathetic of any UK government to sign up to this

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,339
    Sean_F said:

    So 'hardman' Putin is too scared to come to peace talks in Ankara.

    The rest of the world should see this as exactly how important Putin sees peace talks. As in, not at all important. Because he does not want peace on anything other than his own terms, and therefore talking about it is pointless. He'll talk after Ukraine capitulates.

    He'll talk after his hydrocarbon industry burns to the ground.
    It'd be nice to think that's true, but is it?

    Leaving aside the apparently decreased rate of hits against refineries et al, Putin has shown a massive capacity to let his people suffer for his war. If the economy slumps, why would he care? It is only his people suffering, after all, and their suffering is just a sign of their patriotism...
    As the Ukrainians have been massively ramping up missile and drone capacity that can take out these facilities, there has to be some restraining hand put on Zelensky by the Americans ahead of talks. But they have been majoring on taking out Russian air defences. If they resume, there are going to be fewer defence assets to stop Ukraine burning that hydrocarbon industry to the ground.

    Opec plus has agreed to increased production. That will be able to pump to replace the lack of Russian production.

    Putin's war is funded by oil. End the Russian oil sales, end the war.
    Again, I'd like to think that. But Russia could continue the war even with a totally tanked economy. All he has to do is let his people suffer - and he has a large capacity to let his people suffer. And sadly, his people have an even larger capacity to let him let them suffer.
    Russians seem to enjoy suffering on behalf of their autocrats.
    That has been the case for centuries under the Russian Monarchy right up until the1917 revolution, but as far as I can see not much has changed as it has continued under their Communist dictators.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,292
    This will be interesting.
    Citing Trump v United States is a nice touch.

    One day ahead of her arraignment, Judge Hannah Dugan of Wisconsin files motion seeking dismissal of her obstruction case (3 weeks after her arrest was publicized by FBI director Kash Patel)

    Filing: “The problems with this prosecution are legion, but most immediately, the
    government cannot prosecute Judge Dugan because she is entitled to judicial immunity for
    her official acts. Immunity is not a defense to the prosecution to be determined later by a
    jury or court; it is an absolute bar to the prosecution at the outset.

    https://x.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1922718737687585162
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,952

    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    On a point of order, it's not accurate to place Old Oak Common in outer London, given it's in Acton and not far from Notting Hill.
    Old Oak Common is about three minutes by fast train out of Paddington. Why can they not extend HS2 into Paddington rather than cross London to Euston/ Kings Cross sometime in the 2070s?
    From memory in the feasibility reports, Paddington is too cramped, even compared to Euston. Euston did at least have the option to expand. But the whole HS2 into London thing is a bit of a mess, and could
    have done with some joined-up planning
    and thinking three decades ago.
    Part of the issue is having multiple judicial reviews of a project each saying “the government hasn’t done “x” or “y” or “paragraph 244(ii)(a) sub clause 3”

    Why don’t they just have a process of where there is a single judicial review, with a fixed deadline to submit claims, everything gets reviewed and a determination made?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,952

    So 'hardman' Putin is too scared to come to peace talks in Ankara.

    The rest of the world should see this as exactly how important Putin sees peace talks. As in, not at all important. Because he does not want peace on anything other than his own terms, and therefore talking about it is pointless. He'll talk after Ukraine capitulates.

    It was never going to happen

    It was simply a successful gambit to derail the EU initiative from last week. It worked - momentum has been lost
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,952
    ydoethur said:

    I spend thousands on tutors for my child - it's still cheaper than private school

    Private tutoring is booming, with parents paying out to ensure their children thrive in squeezed state schools - but is it lowering their resilience?

    A recent survey from the educational charity Sutton Trust found that 21 per cent of GCSE pupils are having additional private tutoring, compared to just 10 per cent a decade ago.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/spend-thousands-tutors-child-cheaper-private-school-3666918

    I was talking to a PhD student the other week and they do private tutoring to help supplement their stipend. There is so much demand for their services they could literally tutor morning, noon and night, 7 days a week. They do have a 1st class degree in Maths from Cambridge and doing a PhD in Maths so I presumed perhaps that might have meant their experience was an outlier, but perhaps not.
    It's not an outlier. I'm charging three times what I charged four years ago and I'm still turning down work.
    So you’re to blame for inflation running so high?

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,511
    I wonder who will play Andrew Norfolk in "British Spotlight"?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,929

    NEW THREAD

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,292
    Nigelb said:

    Musk’s AI Grok bot rants about ‘white genocide’ in South Africa in unrelated chats
    Chatbot goes on hours-long fritz, repeatedly mentioning ‘white genocide’, which it is ‘instructed to accept as real’
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/may/14/elon-musk-grok-white-genocide

    Confused why all my students' final papers keep veering into discussions of white genocide in South Africa.
    https://x.com/sam_rosenfeld/status/1922757594478698612
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,259

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    The morning thread also has a subtle music reference in the headline.

    Unlike this thread's header where the headline was as subtle as a Reform Party leaflet about immigration.

    It's also, which is a far worse sin, not the first time you've tried a pun using Joy Division - it was "Gove will tear us apart" last time.

    On a complete tangent, this time last week we were in Cadiz and by the fish market there was a bloke on a guitar playing Sultans of Swing and I realised that tune is nearly 50 years ago. It is the classical music de nos jours and will likely still be played in 50 years time.

    I feel old...
    It's difficult to argue Reform aren't having any joy as well... and who are the "us"?

    Anyway, last year I read up about Sultan's of Swing, interesting back story. Knopfler in a SE London pub watching a crappy jazz band being ignored by half a dozen punters
    The White Swan. Long closed, not far from me and @OnlyLivingBoy
    Was that in Deptford somewhere? I love Sultans of Swing.
    Some confusion whether it’s the one on Greenwich high rd (demolished) or Blackheath hill , but that neck of the woods. The band lived down in the Crossfield’s estate back then.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,391

    nico67 said:

    carnforth said:

    nico67 said:

    If rumours are correct it looks like the UK government are willing to provoke the “ Brexit betrayal “ tirades from the right wing press in an effort to give a boost to growth .

    And of course the OBR will factor in any easing of trade barriers with the EU to its forecasts so this could help Reeves .

    There are two appropriate ways to engage:

    1. To help make the rules, and to be bound by them.
    2. To not be involved in making the rules, and to not be bound by them.

    Dynamic alignment is not a brexit betrayal. It's a betrayal of democracy.

    Staying in the EEA, for example - a very soft brexit - is not betrayal of brexit. So it's not about soft or hard. It's about who governs and on whose authority.

    I hope that, if Starmer does sign up to this, he at least gets what the EEA gets - full technical involvement in the rulemaking comittees but no vote.
    The argument against dynamic alignment by the Brexiteers was it would stop the UK making trade deals . Given the India deal this negates that argument somewhat . It’s not clear whether DA would be just for agriculture and fisheries or on goods aswell.

    I don’t think the public really care much for the minutiae of trade in terms of DA .

    Reeves is desperate for growth and the quickest route to increasing that is with the EU . Nothing else even comes close .
    Dynamic alignment is ridiculous. We are both mature economies with a similar mindset on regulation. Equivalence should be fine.

    The issue is around items such as the appropriate application of the precautionary principle - the UK is science driven, the EU less so. Fundamentally this creates a massive tactical advantage for the EU over the UK in the longterm - and one they won’t hesitate to use.

    It would be pathetic of any UK government to sign up to this

    The DA might just be on agricultural and food so perhaps less politically toxic . There’s two types of DA one in which the UK makes its own legislation and one in which EU law gets carried across . If it’s the former that would be beneficial to no 10.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,522

    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    On a point of order, it's not accurate to place Old Oak Common in outer London, given it's in Acton and not far from Notting Hill.
    Old Oak Common is about three minutes by fast train out of Paddington. Why can they not extend HS2 into Paddington rather than cross London to Euston/ Kings Cross sometime in the 2070s?
    From memory in the feasibility reports, Paddington is too cramped, even compared to Euston. Euston did at least have the option to expand. But the whole HS2 into London thing is a bit of a mess, and could
    have done with some joined-up planning
    and thinking three decades ago.
    Part of the issue is having multiple judicial reviews of a project each saying “the government hasn’t done “x” or “y” or “paragraph 244(ii)(a) sub clause 3”

    Why don’t they just have a process of where there is a single judicial review, with a fixed deadline to submit claims, everything gets reviewed and a determination made?
    The new road project near me is an example of an issue. Right before construction was due to begin, a group started a spurious legal challenge. That was rejected, which they then took to the court of appeal. They lost there. But it delayed the project for six months, and the government awarded (fairly) the contractors £24 million for the delays.

    The same group seem to put forward loads of legal challenges, which they seem to lose, at vast cost to the taxpayer.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy5e9w8njwo

    These groups should be made to pay the costs of their challenges. Especially the solicitors working with them... ;)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,586

    a

    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    For that money, we could build a reusable heavy lift rocket and have our own moon landings. Probably 5x over, if we don’t let BAe near it.
    Before you can say that, we need SpaceX to build a working reusable heavy lift rocket and for the US to make their own moon landings. Because SpaceX have not yet made a reusable heavy lift rocket, and the US moon landings seem to be further away than ever. And until it's done, we cannot know the costs.
    Given the efforts by various companies, a £20bn is high end for a reusable *super* heavy booster (Starship/New Armstrong)

    A merely heavy booster (Delta IV heavy/F9H) would be much less.

    The architecture to get from that to the moon is well known and discussed- it didn't meet political considerations. See the Obama plan to cancel SLS.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,895

    a

    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    For that money, we could build a reusable heavy lift rocket and have our own moon landings. Probably 5x over, if we don’t let BAe near it.
    It's a bit of anchoring by Mark Wild, a consummate politician, who's hoping to pull the same trick as Transpennine and come under a ridiculously long date and budget so that he looks "successful".

    It's a game.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,586
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    I spend thousands on tutors for my child - it's still cheaper than private school

    Private tutoring is booming, with parents paying out to ensure their children thrive in squeezed state schools - but is it lowering their resilience?

    A recent survey from the educational charity Sutton Trust found that 21 per cent of GCSE pupils are having additional private tutoring, compared to just 10 per cent a decade ago.

    https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/spend-thousands-tutors-child-cheaper-private-school-3666918

    I was talking to a PhD student the other week and they do private tutoring to help supplement their stipend. There is so much demand for their services they could literally tutor morning, noon and night, 7 days a week. They do have a 1st class degree in Maths from Cambridge and doing a PhD in Maths so I presumed perhaps that might have meant their experience was an outlier, but perhaps not.
    Being a good teacher is presumably the more relevant skill than extremely high levels of qualification in maths? Otherwise a PhD is going to struggle to explain GSCE concepts to a school child.
    It shows what demand there is for education in the country at large.

    While I wouldnt want us to become a hothouse like South Korea, it is probably a good thing.

    It’s been happening for a good while. The best paid job a student can get as an undergrad is probably tuition.

    I think I mentioned the other day that one of the parents I know uses the “garden office” for this. His daughter and two friends who are doing the same A levels get group tuition there. I joked with him about the tipping point for becoming a school.

    All three are doing the state-school-plus-tuition route for 6th form. Which is cheaper than private, allows you to claim that you are an oik (university entry) and makes the state school very happy. They get some high flyers who will push their A level results sky high. Even if attendance is a bit spotty….

    The point where this really took off was COVID. All tuition is online now - not encountered anyone doing face-to-face for a while. This massively reduced costs and critically (for the tutors) wasted time travelling.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,586
    fitalass said:

    Sean_F said:

    So 'hardman' Putin is too scared to come to peace talks in Ankara.

    The rest of the world should see this as exactly how important Putin sees peace talks. As in, not at all important. Because he does not want peace on anything other than his own terms, and therefore talking about it is pointless. He'll talk after Ukraine capitulates.

    He'll talk after his hydrocarbon industry burns to the ground.
    It'd be nice to think that's true, but is it?

    Leaving aside the apparently decreased rate of hits against refineries et al, Putin has shown a massive capacity to let his people suffer for his war. If the economy slumps, why would he care? It is only his people suffering, after all, and their suffering is just a sign of their patriotism...
    As the Ukrainians have been massively ramping up missile and drone capacity that can take out these facilities, there has to be some restraining hand put on Zelensky by the Americans ahead of talks. But they have been majoring on taking out Russian air defences. If they resume, there are going to be fewer defence assets to stop Ukraine burning that hydrocarbon industry to the ground.

    Opec plus has agreed to increased production. That will be able to pump to replace the lack of Russian production.

    Putin's war is funded by oil. End the Russian oil sales, end the war.
    Again, I'd like to think that. But Russia could continue the war even with a totally tanked economy. All he has to do is let his people suffer - and he has a large capacity to let his people suffer. And sadly, his people have an even larger capacity to let him let them suffer.
    Russians seem to enjoy suffering on behalf of their autocrats.
    That has been the case for centuries under the Russian Monarchy right up until the1917 revolution, but as far as I can see not much has changed as it has continued under their Communist dictators.

    But he remained sunk in gloom, and huddled back in the chair. Presently: “About these wars, the ones after the Boer War, I mean. What happened to the great States of Europe? Is Russia still the danger?”

    “We are all very worried about her.”

    “We always were in my day, and in Dizzy’s before me. Is there still a Tsar?”

    “Yes, but he is not a Romanoff. It’s another family. He is much more powerful, and much more despotic.”
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,522

    a

    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    For that money, we could build a reusable heavy lift rocket and have our own moon landings. Probably 5x over, if we don’t let BAe near it.
    Before you can say that, we need SpaceX to build a working reusable heavy lift rocket and for the US to make their own moon landings. Because SpaceX have not yet made a reusable heavy lift rocket, and the US moon landings seem to be further away than ever. And until it's done, we cannot know the costs.
    Given the efforts by various companies, a £20bn is high end for a reusable *super* heavy booster (Starship/New Armstrong)

    A merely heavy booster (Delta IV heavy/F9H) would be much less.

    The architecture to get from that to the moon is well known and discussed- it didn't meet political considerations. See the Obama plan to cancel SLS.
    My point is we can't tell, as it's not been done yet. BO has a glacial pace atm (sadly...), whilst Musky Baby is already talking about Starship V3, when V1 and V2 failed - and V3 uses many future potential updates just to try to get the capacity that was promised for V1.

    The current architecture to get to the Moon is imperiled by the potential cancellation of SLS. Starting again afresh will be costly and, more importantly, time-consuming.
  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 295

    a

    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    For that money, we could build a reusable heavy lift rocket and have our own moon landings. Probably 5x over, if we don’t let BAe near it.
    Before you can say that, we need SpaceX to build a working reusable heavy lift rocket and for the US to make their own moon landings. Because SpaceX have not yet made a reusable heavy lift rocket, and the US moon landings seem to be further away than ever. And until it's done, we cannot know the costs.
    Given the efforts by various companies, a £20bn is high end for a reusable *super* heavy booster (Starship/New Armstrong)

    A merely heavy booster (Delta IV heavy/F9H) would be much less.

    The architecture to get from that to the moon is well known and discussed- it didn't meet political considerations. See the Obama plan to cancel SLS.
    My point is we can't tell, as it's not been done yet. BO has a glacial pace atm (sadly...), whilst Musky Baby is already talking about Starship V3, when V1 and V2 failed - and V3 uses many future potential updates just to try to get the capacity that was promised for V1.

    The current architecture to get to the Moon is imperiled by the potential cancellation of SLS. Starting again afresh will be costly and, more importantly, time-consuming.

    I don’t get that, why does it matter? I’m a massive sci-fi fan but, Trump Moon Base or whatever, how does it accomplish anything beyond mindless consumption?

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,815

    a

    Nigelb said:

    Ridiculous failure.

    https://x.com/s8mb/status/1922732865650831769
    The HS2 line between Birmingham and Old Oak Common in outer London will now cost £126bn and be finished in 2039.

    Doesn’t include the trains, the Euston bit, or any of the other bits to Manchester, Crewe or Leeds, which it was once said would cost well below £100bn put together.

    For that money, we could build a reusable heavy lift rocket and have our own moon landings. Probably 5x over, if we don’t let BAe near it.
    Before you can say that, we need SpaceX to build a working reusable heavy lift rocket and for the US to make their own moon landings. Because SpaceX have not yet made a reusable heavy lift rocket, and the US moon landings seem to be further away than ever. And until it's done, we cannot know the costs.
    Given the efforts by various companies, a £20bn is high end for a reusable *super* heavy booster (Starship/New Armstrong)

    A merely heavy booster (Delta IV heavy/F9H) would be much less.

    The architecture to get from that to the moon is well known and discussed- it didn't meet political considerations. See the Obama plan to cancel SLS.
    My point is we can't tell, as it's not been done yet. BO has a glacial pace atm (sadly...), whilst Musky Baby is already talking about Starship V3, when V1 and V2 failed - and V3 uses many future potential updates just to try to get the capacity that was promised for V1.

    The current architecture to get to the Moon is imperiled by the potential cancellation of SLS. Starting again afresh will be costly and, more importantly, time-consuming.
    My friends in the aerospace/space industry here in SoCal are sounding increasing downbeat about Starship - like it'll never work because the weight reductions they need to achieve compromise structural integrity too much negative. And these are people who absolutely love SpaceX.
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