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Recent history suggests Badenoch will not make it to the general election – politicalbetting.com

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  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,192

    Pagan2 said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    As predicted, the police are enjoying the "conspiracy to cause a public nuisance" law. The difficulty here is not only could it prevent most protests from happening, but even discussion of one can lead to an arrest.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/10/police-raid-london-quaker-meeting-house-very-worrying

    This important bit of context was buried on the middle of the article:

    Youth Demand, which includes young veterans of the Just Stop Oil movement, had posted online it was planning to “shut down London” on a daily basis in April.
    There's an interesting question about when discussion becomes conspiracy. For "political" acts, I think the government should tend to err on the side of inaction, but then if people actually commit public order offences, should actually prosecute and jail.

    Because I don't like the idea of criminalizing kids sitting around plotting to overthrow capitalism. But I do want to punish them appropriately when they massively inconvenience hundreds of thousands of people and bring economic activity to a halt.
    The Supreme Court ruled that a reasonable amount of disruption was to be expected in a democracy. Was an active plan under discussion? What did it involve?

    I suppose you can at least defend it on the basis that some protesters have caused a lot of damage. Arresting parents for criticising schools or the CPS charging someone for 'intent to cause against the religious institution of Islam harrassment, alarm or distress' seems much more dubious.

    Should burning the Quran be illegal or what about setting fire to the Star of David? I wouldn't be comfortable with people doing it bu the CPS seems to want a blasphemy law.
    I don't have an answer to this, because I neither support a blasphemy law, but nor do I think people should act in blasphemous ways. This next point may be silly, but here it is:

    You can burn a Quran or a Star of David in private without consequence. That, SFAICS, is just a fact. So the person who does such a thing deliberately in public is going a step beyond that squalid but private act. Why? Can there be any reason except the desire to offend, provoke, incite, inform others just how much you hate and detest something precious to millions of decent people.

    Put that way, I wouldn't like it being lawful. But I am uncomfortable banning it too.
    Yeah but the wording of the CPS charge 'intent to cause against the religious institution of Islam harrassment, alarm or distress' appears to have no basis in law. And it is hard for it to be read as anything other than a blasphemy charge.
    Of course it is a blasphemy law. You can't offend a "religious institution" any other way than by blaspheming, and thanks to militant Islam and a craven, pathetic Establushment, this law is creeping from de facto - the Batley teacher - to de jure - the Koran burner

    Anyone who argues otherwise is a liar and probably a coward
    The thing that always gets me is that if you really believe in your religion then people critiquing, slagging, mocking etc should be water off a duck’s back - you should have the confidence that you are right and they will burn in hell etc. ignore and rise above.

    Crying and calling offense suggests a little bit of insecurity over whether you are right and your god isn’t going to smite the mockers.

    If you have to force people with threats of retribution for taking the piss then clearly there is something in your religion that doesn’t sit right and maybe you need to question it.
    The problem is that Islam is supposed to be the route to glory yet the modern world doesn't really suggest this.
    In its glory days the islamic world was a lot more relaxed in many ways, they have almost done the opposite of christianity which went from religously anal to more relaxed about stuff, islam started a lot more relaxed and now has in many cases( not all)religously anal
    If you’re going to be anal, best to be relaxed as well.
    I’m told.
    I believe Poppers is the solution for that. But if you aren’t of that bent they are a very funny quick drug.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,046
    May your life be filled with very Brexity things!
    That's one heck of a curse to hurl.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,426
    carnforth said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/10/retired-police-officer-arrested-over-thought-crime-tweet/

    A retired special constable was arrested and detained over a social media post warning about the threat of anti-Semitism in Britain, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Julian Foulkes, from Gillingham in Kent, was handcuffed at his home by six officers from Kent Police – the force he had served for a decade – after challenging a supporter of pro-Palestinian marches on X.

    Police body-worn camera footage captured officers scrutinising the 71-year-old’s collection of books by authors such as Douglas Murray, a Telegraph contributor, and issues of The Spectator, pointing to what they described as “very Brexity things”.

    Ve have spotted ze very brëxity things.
    Were they found on the extreme right of the bookcase?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,435
    edited May 10

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/10/retired-police-officer-arrested-over-thought-crime-tweet/

    A retired special constable was arrested and detained over a social media post warning about the threat of anti-Semitism in Britain, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Julian Foulkes, from Gillingham in Kent, was handcuffed at his home by six officers from Kent Police – the force he had served for a decade – after challenging a supporter of pro-Palestinian marches on X.

    Police body-worn camera footage captured officers scrutinising the 71-year-old’s collection of books by authors such as Douglas Murray, a Telegraph contributor, and issues of The Spectator, pointing to what they described as “very Brexity things”.

    So this guy was arrested in 2023 because the police thought he was inciting people to hunt down Jews in airports?

    The Telegraph is a deeply manipulative paper now. What next - claiming cyclists do over 50mph on the embankment?

    (The police do come out of it looking mildly stupid. How they could misinterpret that tweet in that way is odd).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,046
    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/10/retired-police-officer-arrested-over-thought-crime-tweet/

    A retired special constable was arrested and detained over a social media post warning about the threat of anti-Semitism in Britain, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Julian Foulkes, from Gillingham in Kent, was handcuffed at his home by six officers from Kent Police – the force he had served for a decade – after challenging a supporter of pro-Palestinian marches on X.

    Police body-worn camera footage captured officers scrutinising the 71-year-old’s collection of books by authors such as Douglas Murray, a Telegraph contributor, and issues of The Spectator, pointing to what they described as “very Brexity things”.

    Ve have spotted ze very brëxity things.
    Were they found on the extreme right of the bookcase?
    They were part of a bookcase which functioned OK.
    They decided to hurl themselves onto the floor.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 187
    Eabhal said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/10/retired-police-officer-arrested-over-thought-crime-tweet/

    A retired special constable was arrested and detained over a social media post warning about the threat of anti-Semitism in Britain, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Julian Foulkes, from Gillingham in Kent, was handcuffed at his home by six officers from Kent Police – the force he had served for a decade – after challenging a supporter of pro-Palestinian marches on X.

    Police body-worn camera footage captured officers scrutinising the 71-year-old’s collection of books by authors such as Douglas Murray, a Telegraph contributor, and issues of The Spectator, pointing to what they described as “very Brexity things”.


    (The police do come out of it looking mildly stupid. How they could misinterpret that tweet in that way is odd).
    You're assuming they misinterpreted it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,046
    I expect the later editions of the Telegraph will make clear this guy was arrested under the pro Palestine anti Brexit lunacy of ...err a Conservative regime?
    No. Thought not.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,261
    Wonder what Putin is going to say
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 187
    dixiedean said:

    I expect the later editions of the Telegraph will make clear this guy was arrested under the pro Palestine anti Brexit lunacy of ...err a Conservative regime?
    No. Thought not.

    One of the problems is that no-one can credibly claim that all this nonsense started under the current government.

    Up to good old Nige to make hay with it.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,457

    Eabhal said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/10/retired-police-officer-arrested-over-thought-crime-tweet/

    A retired special constable was arrested and detained over a social media post warning about the threat of anti-Semitism in Britain, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Julian Foulkes, from Gillingham in Kent, was handcuffed at his home by six officers from Kent Police – the force he had served for a decade – after challenging a supporter of pro-Palestinian marches on X.

    Police body-worn camera footage captured officers scrutinising the 71-year-old’s collection of books by authors such as Douglas Murray, a Telegraph contributor, and issues of The Spectator, pointing to what they described as “very Brexity things”.


    (The police do come out of it looking mildly stupid. How they could misinterpret that tweet in that way is odd).
    You're assuming they misinterpreted it.
    So is the person arrested:

    “Kent Police decided to interpret my post as anti-Jewish,” he said. “But it was the exact opposite. If they’d looked at the full thread, they’d have understood. It would have taken two minutes. I told them there was more to it, but they didn’t pause the interview to check.”

    Also why else would they arrest someone for posting

    “One step away from storming Heathrow looking for Jewish arrivals…”
  • isamisam Posts: 41,541
    edited May 10
    My word, this bloke is a caricature of an MP. Reminds me of the Tory on Knowing Me Knowing You who was mocked by the bald Brummies!

    ‘Process and procedure’ 🤓

    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1921119178037010832?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,137

    Wonder what Putin is going to say

    It’s an odd time for a statement.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,818
    edited May 10

    Andrew Bridgen
    @ABridgen

    Russia is the largest country on earth and also has the largest reserves of natural resources - valued at $75 Trillion. Russia only has a population of 140m. NATO members have a population of 973m. Ask yourself why would Russia attack us? Why might some want us to attack Russia?

    https://x.com/ABridgen/status/1921153575905825088


    That number includes Sweden and Finlnd. Who are only members of NATO BECAUSE of the recent threat of Russian invasion.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,942
    dixiedean said:

    May your life be filled with very Brexity things!
    That's one heck of a curse to hurl.

    Believe in Britain. Be LEAVE.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,137
    dixiedean said:

    May your life be filled with very Brexity things!
    That's one heck of a curse to hurl.

    Bit worried my copy of the Labour manifesto could get me into trouble.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 187

    Wonder what Putin is going to say

    It’s an odd time for a statement.
    I'm worried. Maybe he's 'miraculously' accepted Trump's terms for a ceasefire.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,457

    Andrew Bridgen
    @ABridgen

    Russia is the largest country on earth and also has the largest reserves of natural resources - valued at $75 Trillion. Russia only has a population of 140m. NATO members have a population of 973m. Ask yourself why would Russia attack us? Why might some want us to attack Russia?

    https://x.com/ABridgen/status/1921153575905825088


    Come on, Bridgen! You're famous for saying covid vaccines are the worst crime against humanity since the holocaust. This Russia stuff is bollocks, but it's weak, forgettable bollocks. You need something that's going to cut through. Compare Putin to Jesus, and Zelensky to Judas Iscariot, or something.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,549
    dixiedean said:

    I expect the later editions of the Telegraph will make clear this guy was arrested under the pro Palestine anti Brexit lunacy of ...err a Conservative regime?
    No. Thought not.

    Do newspapers still do multiple daily editions? Or is it one of those things that communication technology and falling circulation has killed off?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,818
    kamski said:

    Eabhal said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/10/retired-police-officer-arrested-over-thought-crime-tweet/

    A retired special constable was arrested and detained over a social media post warning about the threat of anti-Semitism in Britain, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Julian Foulkes, from Gillingham in Kent, was handcuffed at his home by six officers from Kent Police – the force he had served for a decade – after challenging a supporter of pro-Palestinian marches on X.

    Police body-worn camera footage captured officers scrutinising the 71-year-old’s collection of books by authors such as Douglas Murray, a Telegraph contributor, and issues of The Spectator, pointing to what they described as “very Brexity things”.


    (The police do come out of it looking mildly stupid. How they could misinterpret that tweet in that way is odd).
    You're assuming they misinterpreted it.
    So is the person arrested:

    “Kent Police decided to interpret my post as anti-Jewish,” he said. “But it was the exact opposite. If they’d looked at the full thread, they’d have understood. It would have taken two minutes. I told them there was more to it, but they didn’t pause the interview to check.”

    Also why else would they arrest someone for posting

    “One step away from storming Heathrow looking for Jewish arrivals…”
    Even Kafka would be rather bemused by that. "Was it witten by Armando?"
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,352
    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 187
    kamski said:

    Eabhal said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/10/retired-police-officer-arrested-over-thought-crime-tweet/

    A retired special constable was arrested and detained over a social media post warning about the threat of anti-Semitism in Britain, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Julian Foulkes, from Gillingham in Kent, was handcuffed at his home by six officers from Kent Police – the force he had served for a decade – after challenging a supporter of pro-Palestinian marches on X.

    Police body-worn camera footage captured officers scrutinising the 71-year-old’s collection of books by authors such as Douglas Murray, a Telegraph contributor, and issues of The Spectator, pointing to what they described as “very Brexity things”.


    (The police do come out of it looking mildly stupid. How they could misinterpret that tweet in that way is odd).
    You're assuming they misinterpreted it.
    So is the person arrested:

    “Kent Police decided to interpret my post as anti-Jewish,” he said. “But it was the exact opposite. If they’d looked at the full thread, they’d have understood. It would have taken two minutes. I told them there was more to it, but they didn’t pause the interview to check.”

    Also why else would they arrest someone for posting

    “One step away from storming Heathrow looking for Jewish arrivals…”
    They have a record of arresting people who antagonise pro Palestinian protesters for one.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,740
    Eabhal said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/10/retired-police-officer-arrested-over-thought-crime-tweet/

    A retired special constable was arrested and detained over a social media post warning about the threat of anti-Semitism in Britain, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Julian Foulkes, from Gillingham in Kent, was handcuffed at his home by six officers from Kent Police – the force he had served for a decade – after challenging a supporter of pro-Palestinian marches on X.

    Police body-worn camera footage captured officers scrutinising the 71-year-old’s collection of books by authors such as Douglas Murray, a Telegraph contributor, and issues of The Spectator, pointing to what they described as “very Brexity things”.

    So this guy was arrested in 2023 because the police thought he was inciting people to hunt down Jews in airports?

    The Telegraph is a deeply manipulative paper now. What next - claiming cyclists do over 50mph on the embankment?

    (The police do come out of it looking mildly stupid. How they could misinterpret that tweet in that way is odd).
    Coming across as mildly stupid is a bit of a step up.

    The Telegraph baffles me.

    Seemingly intelligent journalists - but just trotting out sh*te. Almost like they forget what they said just the day before. It's like a mix of The Trial and 1984.

    Today we are entirely supporting of the (white) working class! We have always been supporters of the (white) working class! Especially the boys! Oh, no - the girls. Those poor girls. And.. the police are amazing, but also we hate the police. We have always been at war with the police.

    Oh, no - hang on.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,046
    Reading through the last dozen or so comments.
    Some by me.
    The unanimous verdict from all political stripes appears to be that we are in a right state.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,137
    Putin statement delayed by an hour.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,942

    Putin statement delayed by an hour.

    He's not Russian to deliver it?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,740

    Putin statement delayed by an hour.

    Daylight savings will be the death of us all....
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,959
    isam said:

    Interesting from The Times.

    No degree? No problem. Why employers are choosing non-graduates

    A university education is losing its hold on prospective employers, who say talent, ambition and real-world skills now matter more

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d60e3855-bd41-419c-9ec2-abc592b3460a?shareToken=8ca2fc7ced6afa55b4ac349f37a3d1ec

    Yes, I threw open our junior/associate level to non-graduates and we just had a tougher set of interviews and tasks. The graduates were better at the tasks but much worse at the on the spot problem solving. I think we ended up taking non-grads about 20% of the time and once you've had a job for 2+ years no one cares about your degree anyway.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,740
    Sam Harris's podcast on Palestinian protesters at US universities is well worth a listen.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,437
    isam said:

    Interesting from The Times.

    No degree? No problem. Why employers are choosing non-graduates

    A university education is losing its hold on prospective employers, who say talent, ambition and real-world skills now matter more

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d60e3855-bd41-419c-9ec2-abc592b3460a?shareToken=8ca2fc7ced6afa55b4ac349f37a3d1ec

    Depends which job, academia, teaching, medicine, law, nursing etc still very much require a degree
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,959
    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    Two things that I've said over the last couple of weeks. I also think eventually Labour will get to where I am and suspend all asylum for uninvited peoples, currently that means only Ukrainians, Hong Kongers and select Afghani translators would be eligible. What they need to do over the next year is sign deals with third countries for deportation, probably Rwanda and a few others would be up for it. Anyone who isn't invited is instantly rejected and sent to a third country or can return home voluntarily. It ends the boat arrivals within days if the government does it properly because all three of those groups have legitimate means to enter the UK and claim asylum.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,959
    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Interesting from The Times.

    No degree? No problem. Why employers are choosing non-graduates

    A university education is losing its hold on prospective employers, who say talent, ambition and real-world skills now matter more

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d60e3855-bd41-419c-9ec2-abc592b3460a?shareToken=8ca2fc7ced6afa55b4ac349f37a3d1ec

    Depends which job, academia, teaching, medicine, law, nursing etc still very much require a degree
    Nursing shouldn't. It didn't for hundreds of years until Labour needed to boost the student numbers and forced them into universities.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,046
    Teaching doesn't need a degree.
    It's an art not a science.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,046
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Interesting from The Times.

    No degree? No problem. Why employers are choosing non-graduates

    A university education is losing its hold on prospective employers, who say talent, ambition and real-world skills now matter more

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d60e3855-bd41-419c-9ec2-abc592b3460a?shareToken=8ca2fc7ced6afa55b4ac349f37a3d1ec

    Depends which job, academia, teaching, medicine, law, nursing etc still very much require a degree
    Nursing shouldn't. It didn't for hundreds of years until Labour needed to boost the student numbers and forced them into universities.
    Yeah.
    Although operating a life support machine also didn't exist for centuries.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,437
    dixiedean said:

    Teaching doesn't need a degree.
    It's an art not a science.

    Try getting a job as a teacher without a degree..you won't.

    Teaching science is not an art either
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,046
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Teaching doesn't need a degree.
    It's an art not a science.

    Try getting a job as a teacher without a degree..you won't.

    Teaching science is not an art either
    Oh yes it is.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,261
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Interesting from The Times.

    No degree? No problem. Why employers are choosing non-graduates

    A university education is losing its hold on prospective employers, who say talent, ambition and real-world skills now matter more

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d60e3855-bd41-419c-9ec2-abc592b3460a?shareToken=8ca2fc7ced6afa55b4ac349f37a3d1ec

    Depends which job, academia, teaching, medicine, law, nursing etc still very much require a degree
    Nursing shouldn't. It didn't for hundreds of years until Labour needed to boost the student numbers and forced them into universities.
    A nursing degree is basically an apprenticeship. It doesn’t matter what you call it.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,261
    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Interesting from The Times.

    No degree? No problem. Why employers are choosing non-graduates

    A university education is losing its hold on prospective employers, who say talent, ambition and real-world skills now matter more

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d60e3855-bd41-419c-9ec2-abc592b3460a?shareToken=8ca2fc7ced6afa55b4ac349f37a3d1ec

    Depends which job, academia, teaching, medicine, law, nursing etc still very much require a degree
    Nursing shouldn't. It didn't for hundreds of years until Labour needed to boost the student numbers and forced them into universities.
    Yeah.
    Although operating a life support machine also didn't exist for centuries.
    Healthcare Assistants do most of the work people associate with old school nursing anyway. Guess what, they don’t need a degree.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,046

    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Interesting from The Times.

    No degree? No problem. Why employers are choosing non-graduates

    A university education is losing its hold on prospective employers, who say talent, ambition and real-world skills now matter more

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d60e3855-bd41-419c-9ec2-abc592b3460a?shareToken=8ca2fc7ced6afa55b4ac349f37a3d1ec

    Depends which job, academia, teaching, medicine, law, nursing etc still very much require a degree
    Nursing shouldn't. It didn't for hundreds of years until Labour needed to boost the student numbers and forced them into universities.
    Yeah.
    Although operating a life support machine also didn't exist for centuries.
    Healthcare Assistants do most of the work people associate with old school nursing anyway. Guess what, they don’t need a degree.
    See also Teaching Assistants. Minimum wage.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,352
    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    Two things that I've said over the last couple of weeks. I also think eventually Labour will get to where I am and suspend all asylum for uninvited peoples, currently that means only Ukrainians, Hong Kongers and select Afghani translators would be eligible. What they need to do over the next year is sign deals with third countries for deportation, probably Rwanda and a few others would be up for it. Anyone who isn't invited is instantly rejected and sent to a third country or can return home voluntarily. It ends the boat arrivals within days if the government does it properly because all three of those groups have legitimate means to enter the UK and claim asylum.
    You have to have more exemptions because some people are trafficked into the country . Processing asylum claims in a third country is legal . The Rwanda scheme didn’t do that . I don’t feel comfortable rejecting all asylum claims bar those you mentioned and priority should be given to those who have family here already and are willing to house their relatives.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 187
    rcs1000 said:

    Sam Harris's podcast on Palestinian protesters at US universities is well worth a listen.

    A new one? Previous comments he's made have shown exasperation at the antisemitism on show.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,948
    edited May 10
    nico67 said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    Two things that I've said over the last couple of weeks. I also think eventually Labour will get to where I am and suspend all asylum for uninvited peoples, currently that means only Ukrainians, Hong Kongers and select Afghani translators would be eligible. What they need to do over the next year is sign deals with third countries for deportation, probably Rwanda and a few others would be up for it. Anyone who isn't invited is instantly rejected and sent to a third country or can return home voluntarily. It ends the boat arrivals within days if the government does it properly because all three of those groups have legitimate means to enter the UK and claim asylum.
    You have to have more exemptions because some people are trafficked into the country . Processing asylum claims in a third country is legal . The Rwanda scheme didn’t do that . I don’t feel comfortable rejecting all asylum claims bar those you mentioned and priority should be given to those who have family here already and are willing to house their relatives.
    I don't see why someone being trafficked in should grant them an exemption, no matter how tragic trafficking is. It merely encourages it.

    That's why T May's modern slavery exemption had to be dropped. Anyone could claim it and immediately pause deportation. And they did.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,493
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Interesting from The Times.

    No degree? No problem. Why employers are choosing non-graduates

    A university education is losing its hold on prospective employers, who say talent, ambition and real-world skills now matter more

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d60e3855-bd41-419c-9ec2-abc592b3460a?shareToken=8ca2fc7ced6afa55b4ac349f37a3d1ec

    Depends which job, academia, teaching, medicine, law, nursing etc still very much require a degree
    Nursing shouldn't. It didn't for hundreds of years until Labour needed to boost the student numbers and forced them into universities.
    For the 9,000th time….

    1) Train nurses with a combination of academic and practical work spread over 3-4 years.

    2) Train nurses with a combination of academic and practical work spread over 3-4 years. And give them a degree certificate at the end.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,789
    WarTranslated
    @wartranslated
    ·
    8m
    Putin’s press conference has just begun.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 187

    WarTranslated
    @wartranslated
    ·
    8m
    Putin’s press conference has just begun.

    Press conference? They must be delighted. Making the morning news in Vladivostok?
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 187
    Let me guess:

    'I have agreed to a ceasefire in which Trump has given me more than I could ever have wished for.'
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,261

    WarTranslated
    @wartranslated
    ·
    8m
    Putin’s press conference has just begun.

    He should go to bed
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,789

    OSINT Intuit 🇺🇸 🇨🇦 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🇮🇱 🇬🇪
    @UKikaski
    ·
    48s
    We propose that Kyiv resume direct negotiations without any preconditions, we propose to start on May 15 in Istanbul.

    Ed.: So no ceasefire and he is getting into a list of demands...
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 187


    OSINT Intuit 🇺🇸 🇨🇦 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🇮🇱 🇬🇪
    @UKikaski
    ·
    48s
    We propose that Kyiv resume direct negotiations without any preconditions, we propose to start on May 15 in Istanbul.

    Ed.: So no ceasefire and he is getting into a list of demands...

    At 2am?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,959
    nico67 said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    Two things that I've said over the last couple of weeks. I also think eventually Labour will get to where I am and suspend all asylum for uninvited peoples, currently that means only Ukrainians, Hong Kongers and select Afghani translators would be eligible. What they need to do over the next year is sign deals with third countries for deportation, probably Rwanda and a few others would be up for it. Anyone who isn't invited is instantly rejected and sent to a third country or can return home voluntarily. It ends the boat arrivals within days if the government does it properly because all three of those groups have legitimate means to enter the UK and claim asylum.
    You have to have more exemptions because some people are trafficked into the country . Processing asylum claims in a third country is legal . The Rwanda scheme didn’t do that . I don’t feel comfortable rejecting all asylum claims bar those you mentioned and priority should be given to those who have family here already and are willing to house their relatives.
    The issue with this is that people claim they are trafficked here and you then can't deport them. If you give people a loophole they will absolutely use it. Rejecting everyone bar those who have been specifically invited is the fairest system. No boat arrivals, no asylum hotels and blunting Nige's chances of becoming PM.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,789
    No ceasefire.

  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,192


    OSINT Intuit 🇺🇸 🇨🇦 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🇮🇱 🇬🇪
    @UKikaski
    ·
    48s
    We propose that Kyiv resume direct negotiations without any preconditions, we propose to start on May 15 in Istanbul.

    Ed.: So no ceasefire and he is getting into a list of demands...

    He’s a bit of a cunł really isn’t he?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,769
    edited May 10
    If this is true it is a bit of a scandal.

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    Unbelievable. The first lady of Sierra Leone —who has an extensive property portfolio—is understood to be the tenant of a council flat in south London.

    British taxpayers are being taken for a total ride 👇👇👇"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1921143206235804058
  • vikvik Posts: 339
    Trump's India-Pakistan truce lasted almost as long as his Israel-Gaza truce.

    The NY Times & the Washington Post are reporting that clashes between India & Pakistan have resumed almost immediately after Trump's declaration of a ceasefire. Each side is accusing the other of breaking the truce.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,789
    Trump might go wild when he sees what Vlad has proposed.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,769
    "Reform’s first female MP on crime, family, and iPads in restaurants

    In her first interview since winning the Runcorn by-election, Sarah Pochin says she is appalled when she sees children on devices at the dinner table" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/sarah-pochin-runcorn-reform-mp-immigrants-rd7gnjr6t
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,740
    Andy_JS said:

    If this is true it is a bit of a scandal.

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    Unbelievable. The first lady of Sierra Leone —who has an extensive property portfolio—is understood to be the tenant of a council flat in south London.

    British taxpayers are being taken for a total ride 👇👇👇"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1921143206235804058

    It's a bit sneaky, though, that he uses to phrase "understood", which means he's not really sure himself, but felt it too juicy not to share.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,032
    Surely everyone has gone to bed now. But still, some weather chat: I just saw this on facebook - it has been so dry lately that Manchester yesterday witnessed a dust devil.
    https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=9786465298107396
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,330
    edited May 11

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Interesting from The Times.

    No degree? No problem. Why employers are choosing non-graduates

    A university education is losing its hold on prospective employers, who say talent, ambition and real-world skills now matter more

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d60e3855-bd41-419c-9ec2-abc592b3460a?shareToken=8ca2fc7ced6afa55b4ac349f37a3d1ec

    Depends which job, academia, teaching, medicine, law, nursing etc still very much require a degree
    Nursing shouldn't. It didn't for hundreds of years until Labour needed to boost the student numbers and forced them into universities.
    For the 9,000th time….

    1) Train nurses with a combination of academic and practical work spread over 3-4 years.

    2) Train nurses with a combination of academic and practical work spread over 3-4 years. And give them a degree certificate at the end.

    You've missed the crucial bit in which some university gets to claim £9k a year in tuition frees, plus whatever outrageous price they can get away with as rent for student halls.
    You've also missed the bit in which nurses now pay a graduate tax off their students loans over the next 30 years, which makes taking a job in Australia particularly attractive.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,740

    rcs1000 said:

    Sam Harris's podcast on Palestinian protesters at US universities is well worth a listen.

    A new one? Previous comments he's made have shown exasperation at the antisemitism on show.
    Yes: it's about two days old - Talking Sense.

    And it's good, because it gets the importance of (a) fighting Hamas and Islamism, while also (b) respecting free speech.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,818

    Wonder what Putin is going to say

    It’s an odd time for a statement.
    "I had a dream..."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,199

    Trump might go wild when he sees what Vlad has proposed.

    Someone should show him what Medvedev has to say about a ceasefire.

    ...In an early sign that Russia may not be receptive to the latest ultimatum, the hawkish former president, Dmitry Medvedev, wrote on X: “Macron, Merz, Starmer, and Tusk were supposed to discuss peace in Kyiv. Instead, they are blurting out threats against Russia … You think that’s smart, eh? Shove these peace plans up your pangender arses.”
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,512
    Nigelb said:

    Trump might go wild when he sees what Vlad has proposed.

    Someone should show him what Medvedev has to say about a ceasefire.

    ...In an early sign that Russia may not be receptive to the latest ultimatum, the hawkish former president, Dmitry Medvedev, wrote on X: “Macron, Merz, Starmer, and Tusk were supposed to discuss peace in Kyiv. Instead, they are blurting out threats against Russia … You think that’s smart, eh? Shove these peace plans up your pangender arses.”
    It might be that, as with India and Pakistan, a formula must be found that enables both sides to claim victory.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,512
    theProle said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Interesting from The Times.

    No degree? No problem. Why employers are choosing non-graduates

    A university education is losing its hold on prospective employers, who say talent, ambition and real-world skills now matter more

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d60e3855-bd41-419c-9ec2-abc592b3460a?shareToken=8ca2fc7ced6afa55b4ac349f37a3d1ec

    Depends which job, academia, teaching, medicine, law, nursing etc still very much require a degree
    Nursing shouldn't. It didn't for hundreds of years until Labour needed to boost the student numbers and forced them into universities.
    For the 9,000th time….

    1) Train nurses with a combination of academic and practical work spread over 3-4 years.

    2) Train nurses with a combination of academic and practical work spread over 3-4 years. And give them a degree certificate at the end.

    You've missed the crucial bit in which some university gets to claim £9k a year in tuition frees, plus whatever outrageous price they can get away with as rent for student halls.
    You've also missed the bit in which nurses now pay a graduate tax off their students loans over the next 30 years, which makes taking a job in Australia particularly attractive.
    Student housing is often owned by private companies, not the university. High rents are probably helped by the student loan regimen encouraging an in for a penny, in for a pound mentality.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,512
    Britain’s asylum hotel ‘king’ becomes a billionaire
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/graham-king-asylum-seekers-hostel-billionaire-l09ldxngh (£££)

    Every cloud...
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,022
    edited May 11
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If this is true it is a bit of a scandal.

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    Unbelievable. The first lady of Sierra Leone —who has an extensive property portfolio—is understood to be the tenant of a council flat in south London.

    British taxpayers are being taken for a total ride 👇👇👇"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1921143206235804058

    It's a bit sneaky, though, that he uses to phrase "understood", which means he's not really sure himself, but felt it too juicy not to share.
    He’s just recycling, rage baiting, from a report in The Times.

    If true I can understand why people would be annoyed. Especially when it is hard to get in the property ladder in London.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,022
    edited May 11
    Deleted as posted above
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,022
    isam said:

    My word, this bloke is a caricature of an MP. Reminds me of the Tory on Knowing Me Knowing You who was mocked by the bald Brummies!

    ‘Process and procedure’ 🤓

    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1921119178037010832?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Ah, yes, the guy called Lt Col Kojak Slaphead III from Bald Brummies against the Bigfoot Conspiracy.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,898
    Nigelb said:

    Trump might go wild when he sees what Vlad has proposed.

    Someone should show him what Medvedev has to say about a ceasefire.

    ...In an early sign that Russia may not be receptive to the latest ultimatum, the hawkish former president, Dmitry Medvedev, wrote on X: “Macron, Merz, Starmer, and Tusk were supposed to discuss peace in Kyiv. Instead, they are blurting out threats against Russia … You think that’s smart, eh? Shove these peace plans up your pangender arses.”
    He does have a penchant for striking imagery.!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,720

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    I’m a little concerned by Cooper’s suggestion that someone needs a degree to be eligible for a work visa. It’s the continued fetishisation of a specific qualification. Bill Gates, for example, does not have a degree.

    While some definitely undesirable aliens do. Trump and Musk, for instance.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,375
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    As predicted, the police are enjoying the "conspiracy to cause a public nuisance" law. The difficulty here is not only could it prevent most protests from happening, but even discussion of one can lead to an arrest.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/10/police-raid-london-quaker-meeting-house-very-worrying

    This important bit of context was buried on the middle of the article:

    Youth Demand, which includes young veterans of the Just Stop Oil movement, had posted online it was planning to “shut down London” on a daily basis in April.
    There's an interesting question about when discussion becomes conspiracy. For "political" acts, I think the government should tend to err on the side of inaction, but then if people actually commit public order offences, should actually prosecute and jail.

    Because I don't like the idea of criminalizing kids sitting around plotting to overthrow capitalism. But I do want to punish them appropriately when they massively inconvenience hundreds of thousands of people and bring economic activity to a halt.
    The Supreme Court ruled that a reasonable amount of disruption was to be expected in a democracy. Was an active plan under discussion? What did it involve?

    I suppose you can at least defend it on the basis that some protesters have caused a lot of damage. Arresting parents for criticising schools or the CPS charging someone for 'intent to cause against the religious institution of Islam harrassment, alarm or distress' seems much more dubious.

    Should burning the Quran be illegal or what about setting fire to the Star of David? I wouldn't be comfortable with people doing it bu the CPS seems to want a blasphemy law.
    I don't have an answer to this, because I neither support a blasphemy law, but nor do I think people should act in blasphemous ways. This next point may be silly, but here it is:

    You can burn a Quran or a Star of David in private without consequence. That, SFAICS, is just a fact. So the person who does such a thing deliberately in public is going a step beyond that squalid but private act. Why? Can there be any reason except the desire to offend, provoke, incite, inform others just how much you hate and detest something precious to millions of decent people.

    Put that way, I wouldn't like it being lawful. But I am uncomfortable banning it too.
    Yeah but the wording of the CPS charge 'intent to cause against the religious institution of Islam harrassment, alarm or distress' appears to have no basis in law. And it is hard for it to be read as anything other than a blasphemy charge.
    Of course it is a blasphemy law. You can't offend a "religious institution" any other way than by blaspheming, and thanks to militant Islam and a craven, pathetic Establushment, this law is creeping from de facto - the Batley teacher - to de jure - the Koran burner

    Anyone who argues otherwise is a liar and probably a coward
    The thing that always gets me is that if you really believe in your religion then people critiquing, slagging, mocking etc should be water off a duck’s back - you should have the confidence that you are right and they will burn in hell etc. ignore and rise above.

    Crying and calling offense suggests a little bit of insecurity over whether you are right and your god isn’t going to smite the mockers.

    If you have to force people with threats of retribution for taking the piss then clearly there is something in your religion that doesn’t sit right and maybe you need to question it.
    Religion is and always has been about power, over others.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,375
    Andy_JS said:

    I'm getting slightly bored with politics atm, I think because we need more opinion polls and we're not getting them.

    They’re all going to be the same for the next four years - haven’t you heard?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,058
    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Interesting from The Times.

    No degree? No problem. Why employers are choosing non-graduates

    A university education is losing its hold on prospective employers, who say talent, ambition and real-world skills now matter more

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d60e3855-bd41-419c-9ec2-abc592b3460a?shareToken=8ca2fc7ced6afa55b4ac349f37a3d1ec

    Depends which job, academia, teaching, medicine, law, nursing etc still very much require a degree
    Nursing shouldn't. It didn't for hundreds of years until Labour needed to boost the student numbers and forced them into universities.
    Yeah.
    Although operating a life support machine also didn't exist for centuries.
    The 1919 Nurses Registration Act, which first standardised nursing education, was introduced under a Conservative (and Lloyd-George Coalition Liberal) government.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,188
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    As predicted, the police are enjoying the "conspiracy to cause a public nuisance" law. The difficulty here is not only could it prevent most protests from happening, but even discussion of one can lead to an arrest.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/10/police-raid-london-quaker-meeting-house-very-worrying

    This important bit of context was buried on the middle of the article:

    Youth Demand, which includes young veterans of the Just Stop Oil movement, had posted online it was planning to “shut down London” on a daily basis in April.
    There's an interesting question about when discussion becomes conspiracy. For "political" acts, I think the government should tend to err on the side of inaction, but then if people actually commit public order offences, should actually prosecute and jail.

    Because I don't like the idea of criminalizing kids sitting around plotting to overthrow capitalism. But I do want to punish them appropriately when they massively inconvenience hundreds of thousands of people and bring economic activity to a halt.
    The Supreme Court ruled that a reasonable amount of disruption was to be expected in a democracy. Was an active plan under discussion? What did it involve?

    I suppose you can at least defend it on the basis that some protesters have caused a lot of damage. Arresting parents for criticising schools or the CPS charging someone for 'intent to cause against the religious institution of Islam harrassment, alarm or distress' seems much more dubious.

    Should burning the Quran be illegal or what about setting fire to the Star of David? I wouldn't be comfortable with people doing it bu the CPS seems to want a blasphemy law.
    I don't have an answer to this, because I neither support a blasphemy law, but nor do I think people should act in blasphemous ways. This next point may be silly, but here it is:

    You can burn a Quran or a Star of David in private without consequence. That, SFAICS, is just a fact. So the person who does such a thing deliberately in public is going a step beyond that squalid but private act. Why? Can there be any reason except the desire to offend, provoke, incite, inform others just how much you hate and detest something precious to millions of decent people.

    Put that way, I wouldn't like it being lawful. But I am uncomfortable banning it too.
    Are you allowed to protest against socialism if you see it as a bad thing? If so are you allowed to burn das kapital as part of the protest

    Are you allowed to protest against fascism as you see it as a bad thing? If so are you allowed to burn mein kampf as part of the protest

    Are you allowed to protest against Salman Rushdie as you see his book as a bad thing? If so are you allowed to burn the satanic verses as part of the protest

    Are you allowed to protest against christianity as you see it as a bad thing? If so are you allowed to burn the bible as part of the protest

    Are you allowed to protest against islam as you see it as a bad thing? If so are you allowed to burn the quran as part of the protest


    If you don't answer the same to both parts of each question for all of them please explain why its different
    As I hope I made clear, I wish I knew, and I hope what I wrote is a tiny contribution to answering your unanswerable questions. I think there are reasons for drawing a conceptual distinction between protest and blasphemy. Incidentally, what are your answers?

    I think our law struggles in similar ways to me, so i don't think I am alone.
    No, you're a pitiful coward

    The right to mock, abhor, parody and spit on religion - NON-violently - was incedibly hard won. It took centuries, from the first inklings in the Renaissance, through the Enlightenment, to the final triumph in the 20th century. Many many died in the fight, literally. And I am religious! - yet I defend the right of anyone to scorn and laugh at my beliefs, and to urinate on any "book" which I elevate to the status of sacred object

    I am free to worship a book; they are free to put it down a toilet

    This is such a fundamental part of what the West is, and why the West is - or was - great - it is astonishing how quickly feeble-minded fools like you will throw it away in the interest of "community cohesion"
    Thanks. However, the history of anti semitism in Europe, including in its non violent forms still gives me pause for thought, and suggests to me that there may be a little more to be said, including the possibility that non violent public conduct can cross lines which should not be crossed. If that is feeble minded pitiful cowardice, well at least I have no power over the matter and everyone is safe from the tyranny of my belief that there can sometimes be a distinction between protest and protest-like public behaviour which civilised society should not accept.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,375
    Here on a very bright but slightly less sunny Sunday, today’s new style Rawnsley:

    If Downing Street has its way, this period will be remembered not so much for the drubbing meted out to Labour at the local elections as for a triple-whammy of beneficial international bargains brokered by Sir Keir’s government.

    Some modest concessions on agricultural products have protected tens of thousands of jobs in critical industries. The unctuous invite to Mr Trump to make a second state visit probably sticks in your craw as much as it does in mine, but obliging King Charles to take one for the team will be a price worth paying for the livelihoods that have been saved.

    The India deal aligns the UK more closely with the world’s most populous country and one of the fastest-expanding major economies. Having failed to land this agreement while they were in office, the Tories have been reduced to hollow carping about granting relief from national insurance contributions to employees of Indian companies so that they are not double-taxed while seconded to the UK. Mrs Badenoch, once trade minister herself, ought to be aware that this practice is so extremely common that it is a feature of our existing agreements with about 50 other countries.

    By far the greatest boost to growth would come from reducing the frictions in the commerce with our closest neighbours. Both the UK and the EU are challenged by anaemic growth, as they are also mutually menaced by Vladimir Putin to the east and Donald Trump to the west. It is in their joint interests to boost prosperity through increased trade and investment.

    Polling tells us that Britons favour prioritising the improvement of relations with the rest of Europe. Sir Keir tells his inner circle that the UK is being taken seriously in Europe in a way that it has not been for a decade. There’s truth in that, but there’s still a lot of sluggishness about pursuing concrete results. The London summit will put signatures on a defence and security pact, paving the way for the UK’s participation in EU-supported military funds. On trade, the best to be expected is a “road map” for future talks. Both sides need to be much more creative and flexible about fashioning an agenda that promotes growth in the EU and the UK.

    Rebuilding that relationship is the real test of whether Sir Keir has mastered the art of the deal.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,058

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    I’m a little concerned by Cooper’s suggestion that someone needs a degree to be eligible for a work visa. It’s the continued fetishisation of a specific qualification. Bill Gates, for example, does not have a degree.

    He does not, although he did do two years at Harvard and has since been awarded 8 honorary doctorates.

    Cooper is not as bad as the Turkish constitution, which requires the president to have a degree.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,022
    IanB2 said:

    Here on a very bright but slightly less sunny Sunday, today’s new style Rawnsley:

    If Downing Street has its way, this period will be remembered not so much for the drubbing meted out to Labour at the local elections as for a triple-whammy of beneficial international bargains brokered by Sir Keir’s government.

    Some modest concessions on agricultural products have protected tens of thousands of jobs in critical industries. The unctuous invite to Mr Trump to make a second state visit probably sticks in your craw as much as it does in mine, but obliging King Charles to take one for the team will be a price worth paying for the livelihoods that have been saved.

    The India deal aligns the UK more closely with the world’s most populous country and one of the fastest-expanding major economies. Having failed to land this agreement while they were in office, the Tories have been reduced to hollow carping about granting relief from national insurance contributions to employees of Indian companies so that they are not double-taxed while seconded to the UK. Mrs Badenoch, once trade minister herself, ought to be aware that this practice is so extremely common that it is a feature of our existing agreements with about 50 other countries.

    By far the greatest boost to growth would come from reducing the frictions in the commerce with our closest neighbours. Both the UK and the EU are challenged by anaemic growth, as they are also mutually menaced by Vladimir Putin to the east and Donald Trump to the west. It is in their joint interests to boost prosperity through increased trade and investment.

    Polling tells us that Britons favour prioritising the improvement of relations with the rest of Europe. Sir Keir tells his inner circle that the UK is being taken seriously in Europe in a way that it has not been for a decade. There’s truth in that, but there’s still a lot of sluggishness about pursuing concrete results. The London summit will put signatures on a defence and security pact, paving the way for the UK’s participation in EU-supported military funds. On trade, the best to be expected is a “road map” for future talks. Both sides need to be much more creative and flexible about fashioning an agenda that promotes growth in the EU and the UK.

    Rebuilding that relationship is the real test of whether Sir Keir has mastered the art of the deal.


    Every pet policy of a single,issue obsessive these days is justified by a favourable opinion poll.

    We do not govern based on what an opinion poll says.

    What next, governance by Sun Editorial ?

    The E.U. is obsessed with regulation. It has many structural issues too. Growth will be anaemic for a long time. We can shackle ourselves to it if we want. It’s going to make trade a little easier from my experience of sourcing from Europe before and after Brexit. But it’s not going to drive growth. However it will give a frisson of joy to the FBPE brigade.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,022

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    I’m a little concerned by Cooper’s suggestion that someone needs a degree to be eligible for a work visa. It’s the continued fetishisation of a specific qualification. Bill Gates, for example, does not have a degree.

    He does not, although he did do two years at Harvard and has since been awarded 8 honorary doctorates.

    Cooper is not as bad as the Turkish constitution, which requires the president to have a degree.
    JLR required all permanent staff to have a degree when I worked there.

    They had contractors they wanted to take on permanently but couldn’t as they had no degree.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,512

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    I’m a little concerned by Cooper’s suggestion that someone needs a degree to be eligible for a work visa. It’s the continued fetishisation of a specific qualification. Bill Gates, for example, does not have a degree.

    He does not, although he did do two years at Harvard and has since been awarded 8 honorary doctorates.

    Cooper is not as bad as the Turkish constitution, which requires the president to have a degree.
    Yes, when Bill Gates says he dropped out of school to run Microsoft, he means school in the American sense of university (aka "college").
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,959

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    I’m a little concerned by Cooper’s suggestion that someone needs a degree to be eligible for a work visa. It’s the continued fetishisation of a specific qualification. Bill Gates, for example, does not have a degree.

    Yes, what if I want to bring in a great developer who didn't bother with a degree but has self taught everything? Or a salesperson who never went to uni and is top of their field. Surely the better solution is to just raise the income threshold rather than put an artificial bar that would disallow visas for a £150k senior developer but allow a £40k dental nurse.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,352
    I see Putin is upto his old tricks again .

    He wants to drag it out , make ridiculous demands in any negotiations and then blame Ukraine for not accepting them . Hoping Trump will pull the plug .
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,818

    Nigelb said:

    Trump might go wild when he sees what Vlad has proposed.

    Someone should show him what Medvedev has to say about a ceasefire.

    ...In an early sign that Russia may not be receptive to the latest ultimatum, the hawkish former president, Dmitry Medvedev, wrote on X: “Macron, Merz, Starmer, and Tusk were supposed to discuss peace in Kyiv. Instead, they are blurting out threats against Russia … You think that’s smart, eh? Shove these peace plans up your pangender arses.”
    He does have a penchant for striking imagery.!
    Macron, Merz, Starmer, and Tusk should destroy a dozen Russian refineries and oil storage facilities. Shove your flaming hydrocarbons industry up your alcoholic arse, Medvedev.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,960
    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    I’m a little concerned by Cooper’s suggestion that someone needs a degree to be eligible for a work visa. It’s the continued fetishisation of a specific qualification. Bill Gates, for example, does not have a degree.

    Yes, what if I want to bring in a great developer who didn't bother with a degree but has self taught everything? Or a salesperson who never went to uni and is top of their field. Surely the better solution is to just raise the income threshold rather than put an artificial bar that would disallow visas for a £150k senior developer but allow a £40k dental nurse.
    Yes - obviously money is the root of all virtue and should be the sole criterion of everything.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,330

    theProle said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Interesting from The Times.

    No degree? No problem. Why employers are choosing non-graduates

    A university education is losing its hold on prospective employers, who say talent, ambition and real-world skills now matter more

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d60e3855-bd41-419c-9ec2-abc592b3460a?shareToken=8ca2fc7ced6afa55b4ac349f37a3d1ec

    Depends which job, academia, teaching, medicine, law, nursing etc still very much require a degree
    Nursing shouldn't. It didn't for hundreds of years until Labour needed to boost the student numbers and forced them into universities.
    For the 9,000th time….

    1) Train nurses with a combination of academic and practical work spread over 3-4 years.

    2) Train nurses with a combination of academic and practical work spread over 3-4 years. And give them a degree certificate at the end.

    You've missed the crucial bit in which some university gets to claim £9k a year in tuition frees, plus whatever outrageous price they can get away with as rent for student halls.
    You've also missed the bit in which nurses now pay a graduate tax off their students loans over the next 30 years, which makes taking a job in Australia particularly attractive.
    Student housing is often owned by private companies, not the university. High rents are probably helped by the student loan regimen encouraging an in for a penny, in for a pound mentality.
    I think it depends on the Uni. I think quite a number of universities have clocked that as its a pretty much unregulated market it's a very easy route to making lots more money per student and rushed off to get in on the action.

    Not that it makes any great difference in terms of the practical outcome, which is to ensure that most students are loaded up with levels of debt they are in no danger of paying off.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,740
    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    I’m a little concerned by Cooper’s suggestion that someone needs a degree to be eligible for a work visa. It’s the continued fetishisation of a specific qualification. Bill Gates, for example, does not have a degree.

    Yes, what if I want to bring in a great developer who didn't bother with a degree but has self taught everything? Or a salesperson who never went to uni and is top of their field. Surely the better solution is to just raise the income threshold rather than put an artificial bar that would disallow visas for a £150k senior developer but allow a £40k dental nurse.
    Wouldn't the simplest way to simply auction the visas, and let the market decide?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,549
    Taz said:

    IanB2 said:

    Here on a very bright but slightly less sunny Sunday, today’s new style Rawnsley:

    If Downing Street has its way, this period will be remembered not so much for the drubbing meted out to Labour at the local elections as for a triple-whammy of beneficial international bargains brokered by Sir Keir’s government.

    Some modest concessions on agricultural products have protected tens of thousands of jobs in critical industries. The unctuous invite to Mr Trump to make a second state visit probably sticks in your craw as much as it does in mine, but obliging King Charles to take one for the team will be a price worth paying for the livelihoods that have been saved.

    The India deal aligns the UK more closely with the world’s most populous country and one of the fastest-expanding major economies. Having failed to land this agreement while they were in office, the Tories have been reduced to hollow carping about granting relief from national insurance contributions to employees of Indian companies so that they are not double-taxed while seconded to the UK. Mrs Badenoch, once trade minister herself, ought to be aware that this practice is so extremely common that it is a feature of our existing agreements with about 50 other countries.

    By far the greatest boost to growth would come from reducing the frictions in the commerce with our closest neighbours. Both the UK and the EU are challenged by anaemic growth, as they are also mutually menaced by Vladimir Putin to the east and Donald Trump to the west. It is in their joint interests to boost prosperity through increased trade and investment.

    Polling tells us that Britons favour prioritising the improvement of relations with the rest of Europe. Sir Keir tells his inner circle that the UK is being taken seriously in Europe in a way that it has not been for a decade. There’s truth in that, but there’s still a lot of sluggishness about pursuing concrete results. The London summit will put signatures on a defence and security pact, paving the way for the UK’s participation in EU-supported military funds. On trade, the best to be expected is a “road map” for future talks. Both sides need to be much more creative and flexible about fashioning an agenda that promotes growth in the EU and the UK.

    Rebuilding that relationship is the real test of whether Sir Keir has mastered the art of the deal.


    Every pet policy of a single,issue obsessive these days is justified by a favourable opinion poll.

    We do not govern based on what an opinion poll says.

    What next, governance by Sun Editorial ?

    The E.U. is obsessed with regulation. It has many structural issues too. Growth will be anaemic for a long time. We can shackle ourselves to it if we want. It’s going to make trade a little easier from my experience of sourcing from Europe before and after Brexit. But it’s not going to drive growth. However it will give a frisson of joy to the FBPE brigade.
    Governance by Sun editorial has been a thing for decades, unfortunately.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,959

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    I’m a little concerned by Cooper’s suggestion that someone needs a degree to be eligible for a work visa. It’s the continued fetishisation of a specific qualification. Bill Gates, for example, does not have a degree.

    He does not, although he did do two years at Harvard and has since been awarded 8 honorary doctorates.

    Cooper is not as bad as the Turkish constitution, which requires the president to have a degree.
    But he still wouldn't be allowed under a skilled worker programme. I mean I literally had two staff devs from Europe on over £100k each that didn't have degrees, under the proposed system I wouldn't be able to hire them yet they came with a very specific combination of skills in python, terraform and Go that made it really difficult to find here even with a salary budget of ~£150-190k we only filled one of the three roles with a UK worker and the estimate on that team's multiplier was about 10x.

    People's skills are no longer measured by which pieces of paper they hold or what letters they have after their name, I really think this is a big step backwards. Just stick the income threshold up to £60k and the market will decide whether or not a degree is necessary for certain roles. The non-graduate self taught developer is a huge value add to any team that the government doesn't recognise this is very worrying.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,740

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    I’m a little concerned by Cooper’s suggestion that someone needs a degree to be eligible for a work visa. It’s the continued fetishisation of a specific qualification. Bill Gates, for example, does not have a degree.

    Nor indeed does Tony Blair.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,543
    nico67 said:

    I see Putin is upto his old tricks again .

    He wants to drag it out , make ridiculous demands in any negotiations and then blame Ukraine for not accepting them . Hoping Trump will pull the plug .

    Not far off Trump’s ‘negotiating’ modus operandi though. Hopefully he thinks he should be the only one allowed to do it and is suitably outraged.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,818
    nico67 said:

    I see Putin is upto his old tricks again .

    He wants to drag it out , make ridiculous demands in any negotiations and then blame Ukraine for not accepting them . Hoping Trump will pull the plug .

    Trump will need another Vatican sit-down with Zelensky.

    Sorry Pope Leo, you're going to have to meet your maker early - to take one for world peace...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,058
    rcs1000 said:

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    I’m a little concerned by Cooper’s suggestion that someone needs a degree to be eligible for a work visa. It’s the continued fetishisation of a specific qualification. Bill Gates, for example, does not have a degree.

    Nor indeed does Tony Blair.

    You mean John Major?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,959
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    I’m a little concerned by Cooper’s suggestion that someone needs a degree to be eligible for a work visa. It’s the continued fetishisation of a specific qualification. Bill Gates, for example, does not have a degree.

    Yes, what if I want to bring in a great developer who didn't bother with a degree but has self taught everything? Or a salesperson who never went to uni and is top of their field. Surely the better solution is to just raise the income threshold rather than put an artificial bar that would disallow visas for a £150k senior developer but allow a £40k dental nurse.
    Wouldn't the simplest way to simply auction the visas, and let the market decide?
    Yup, 10k quota for visas with dependents, 30k quota for visas without dependents, auction them. We should do the same with student visas, 50k per year quota and hold an auction.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,058

    nico67 said:

    I see Putin is upto his old tricks again .

    He wants to drag it out , make ridiculous demands in any negotiations and then blame Ukraine for not accepting them . Hoping Trump will pull the plug .

    Trump will need another Vatican sit-down with Zelensky.

    Sorry Pope Leo, you're going to have to meet your maker early - to take one for world peace...
    Surely the death of any significant world leader would work. It doesn’t have to be the Pope. King Charles III would do.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,189
    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Interesting from The Times.

    No degree? No problem. Why employers are choosing non-graduates

    A university education is losing its hold on prospective employers, who say talent, ambition and real-world skills now matter more

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/d60e3855-bd41-419c-9ec2-abc592b3460a?shareToken=8ca2fc7ced6afa55b4ac349f37a3d1ec

    Depends which job, academia, teaching, medicine, law, nursing etc still very much require a degree
    A degree for most nursing is totally unnecessary
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,352

    nico67 said:

    I see Putin is upto his old tricks again .

    He wants to drag it out , make ridiculous demands in any negotiations and then blame Ukraine for not accepting them . Hoping Trump will pull the plug .

    Not far off Trump’s ‘negotiating’ modus operandi though. Hopefully he thinks he should be the only one allowed to do it and is suitably outraged.
    I see Trump has fallen for Putins smoke and mirrors .

    I don’t see how you have peace negotiations whilst the bombing is still happening and Putin will simply put ridiculous demands on Ukraine which they won’t be able to accept . He’ll then play the peace martyr and say they’re not interested in peace , walk away and hope Trump blames Ukraine which more than likely he will .
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,740
    edited May 11

    rcs1000 said:

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    I’m a little concerned by Cooper’s suggestion that someone needs a degree to be eligible for a work visa. It’s the continued fetishisation of a specific qualification. Bill Gates, for example, does not have a degree.

    Nor indeed does Tony Blair.

    You mean John Major?
    No, I mean Tony Blair.

    Everyone knows that John Major is not a graduate.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,959
    Chris said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    I’m a little concerned by Cooper’s suggestion that someone needs a degree to be eligible for a work visa. It’s the continued fetishisation of a specific qualification. Bill Gates, for example, does not have a degree.

    Yes, what if I want to bring in a great developer who didn't bother with a degree but has self taught everything? Or a salesperson who never went to uni and is top of their field. Surely the better solution is to just raise the income threshold rather than put an artificial bar that would disallow visas for a £150k senior developer but allow a £40k dental nurse.
    Yes - obviously money is the root of all virtue and should be the sole criterion of everything.
    I don't care about virtue when it comes to visas, we want the highest skilled workers and money/salary is the best measure of that.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,380
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    nico67 said:

    A few notable items popping up in the papers .

    The government plans to change the law to constrain judges interpretation of Article 8 of the ECHR .

    The interpretation has been the subject of much controversy and is more of the issue than the actual article itself .

    Why didn’t the Tory government attempt this ?

    And news that any crime now will lead to a migrant being considered for deportation rather than previously the sentence had to be a year or more .

    I’m a little concerned by Cooper’s suggestion that someone needs a degree to be eligible for a work visa. It’s the continued fetishisation of a specific qualification. Bill Gates, for example, does not have a degree.

    Nor indeed does Tony Blair.

    You mean John Major?
    No, I mean Tony Blair.

    Everyone knows that John Major is not a graduate.
    graduated from Oxford at the age of 22 in 1975 with a second-class Honours B.A. in jurisprudence.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,022
    edited May 11
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