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Winning the argument vs the other lot being useless – politicalbetting.com

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,532

    Cookie said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    The header confirms that Reform is NOTA.

    Immigration is not the story, or not the whole story. PBers arguing about small boats vs the Boriswave, or asylum seekers vs illegal immigrants, are getting hung up on the precise number on the side of a bus. It matters a bit but it's not really the point.

    Luke Tryl/MiC: their new voters are less ideologically motivated to them & more likely to say Reform support is because of dislike of other parties
    https://bsky.app/profile/luketryl.bsky.social/post/3loistkxdcs2f

    ‘Dislike of other parties’ is pollster-speak for NOTA. Reform is NOTA.

    It's very simple: the mainstream parties get a grip on crime, law and order and immigration and all these fringe parties go away.

    If they don't, then they'll win instead.
    I'm not so sure. They will partially go away, but a proportion will just flit to the next fringe theory or issue.
    Oh my God.
    It's quite shocking how complacent the ultra liberals are.
    I mean, is it just fucking me?

    There's almost two dozen of them on here.

    I mean, FUCK ME.

    How dumb do you have to be?!
    I expect this is how the Roman elites acted during the end days.
    "Actually, the plebs don't really mind that much about the Visigoth invasions, and those who do are just dumb racists."
    That's not entirely fair, I've never accused Leon of being 'dumb'.
    The World would be a lot quieter if he was.
  • novanova Posts: 765
    carnforth said:

    Has Starmer really just agreed an Indian trade deal that Indians coming to work do not have to pay National Insurance for 3 years?

    Seems Badenoch and the Lib Dems are distinctly unhappy and if true, goodness knows what Farage will say

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1919775482167361715?t=o06IkR3woHnneSqyBRitvA&s=19

    As I posted above, this appears to be a common provision in our trade deals, including recent Chilean, Korean and Japanese ones. Happy to be corrected.

    Also as a reciprocal arrangement for temporary workers, I'd be surprised if it wasn't common.

    Problem for Labour is that nobody cares about a bit of hypocrisy these days. If it turns out to be standard in the deals the Tories have signed/worked with, for the last 14 years, then Kemi will no doubt come to grief at PMQs. But the two-tier stuff will have already worked its way into the minds of Conservative Reform voters.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,659
    Pulpstar said:

    So today Starmer has * Checks notes *

    1) Ruled out a reversal of his single most electorally costly policy.
    2) Allowed Indians to undercut UK workers with his Modi deal.

    Economically they're both fine but politically disastrous.

    In many ways, the Starmer project is a bet that he can turn the economy round in time to reap the political benefit.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,335

    Cookie said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Casino_Royale in Gregg’s

    It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?

    Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain

    Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave

    This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course

    I think it might have been Barty who called out your 4* hotel lie last week, citing Copthorne who were undergoing difficult trading prior to COVID and latterly asylum. Whoever it was specified the requirements for a hotel to be 4* and explained that all the 4*edness had been stripped out of Copthorne locations for our asylum seeking friends.

    Yet you are still allowed to post nonsense unchallenged. What next? Quoting Andrew Tate's X account as source material. Oh wait, apologies, that was Nigel Farage.
    Good luck in going to the voters while saying “it WAS a four star hotel when we took it over and gave it to asylum seekers, but we closed the gym and they only get laundry done twice a week, and free heath care, and immediate dental work, and you’re paying for it all, and you can’t use the hotel. So it’s really only like a weird 3 star with a private hospital. That you are paying for. So that these men can wander around your town freaking you out. Vote for more of this!”
    I'm not enthusiastic about my tax pounds going to a series of failing hotel groups. The boats need to be stopped for safety issues as much as for anything else. I am simply calling out your lies (sorry about the unparliamentary language, but I'm not sure what else to call it) to elicit a reaction from certain fragile on this subject posters
    It's not really a lie, though is it? These are 4-star hotels. The fact that some of the facilities are unavailable doesn't massively change this unless you're, er, whichever body is responsible for awarding stars to hotels.
    Yes it is. They are no longer regarded as 4* so you and Leon suggesting they are is a mechanism to make a political point. Or in other words it's inflammatory bollocks.
    This is a ridiculous hill to die on. It is simply a fact that asylum seekers are being housed in four star hotels.

    Look at this one. It's a modern four star hotel that was refurbished in 2022: https://www.marriott.com/en-gb/hotels/bhxwd-delta-hotels-warwick/overview/

    It's currently unavailable to book and closed to the public because it's being used to house male asylum seekers under a government contract.
    lol. The PB left is skewered and helpless. It is quite a spectacle
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,340
    The most interesting thing about that polling is the polarisation (or lack of it). Net Zero - Reform voters aren't as negative as I'd assumed, and closer to other voters. Identity - a yawning chasm to everyone else.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,112
    Please don’t tell me this Indian NI deal isn’t true. After a stonking message last Thursday as well?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,335

    Please don’t tell me this Indian NI deal isn’t true. After a stonking message last Thursday as well?

    Likewise, I find it hard to believe. I know Starmer is terrible at doing deals, but.... really???
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,112
    Leon said:

    Please don’t tell me this Indian NI deal isn’t true. After a stonking message last Thursday as well?

    Likewise, I find it hard to believe. I know Starmer is terrible at doing deals, but.... really???
    I know he lacks any political judgement but if this is true… err
  • eekeek Posts: 29,943
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Casino_Royale in Gregg’s

    It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?

    Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain

    Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave

    This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course

    I think it might have been Barty who called out your 4* hotel lie last week, citing Copthorne who were undergoing difficult trading prior to COVID and latterly asylum. Whoever it was specified the requirements for a hotel to be 4* and explained that all the 4*edness had been stripped out of Copthorne locations for our asylum seeking friends.

    Yet you are still allowed to post nonsense unchallenged. What next? Quoting Andrew Tate's X account as source material. Oh wait, apologies, that was Nigel Farage.
    Good luck in going to the voters while saying “it WAS a four star hotel when we took it over and gave it to asylum seekers, but we closed the gym and they only get laundry done twice a week, and free heath care, and immediate dental work, and you’re paying for it all, and you can’t use the hotel. So it’s really only like a weird 3 star with a private hospital. That you are paying for. So that these men can wander around your town freaking you out. Vote for more of this!”
    I'm not enthusiastic about my tax pounds going to a series of failing hotel groups. The boats need to be stopped for safety issues as much as for anything else. I am simply calling out your lies (sorry about the unparliamentary language, but I'm not sure what else to call it) to elicit a reaction from certain fragile on this subject posters
    It's not really a lie, though is it? These are 4-star hotels. The fact that some of the facilities are unavailable doesn't massively change this unless you're, er, whichever body is responsible for awarding stars to hotels.
    Yes it is. They are no longer regarded as 4* so you and Leon suggesting they are is a mechanism to make a political point. Or in other words it's inflammatory bollocks.
    This is a ridiculous hill to die on. It is simply a fact that asylum seekers are being housed in four star hotels.

    Look at this one. It's a modern four star hotel that was refurbished in 2022: https://www.marriott.com/en-gb/hotels/bhxwd-delta-hotels-warwick/overview/

    It's currently unavailable to book and closed to the public because it's being used to house male asylum seekers under a government contract.
    lol. The PB left is skewered and helpless. It is quite a spectacle
    So the question is when did it become a hostel for male asylum seekers im guessing 2022 but unless it was after July 2024 it’s not Labour’s fault merely Labour’s problem because the Tories were incompetent and did realise that if you don’t do the paperwork the paperwork has a habit of not disappearing
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,741
    rkrkrk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    So today Starmer has * Checks notes *

    1) Ruled out a reversal of his single most electorally costly policy.
    2) Allowed Indians to undercut UK workers with his Modi deal.

    Economically they're both fine but politically disastrous.

    In many ways, the Starmer project is a bet that he can turn the economy round in time to reap the political benefit.
    Whilst the project is headed by Starmer, Reeves and Miliband.

    That's...brave.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,889

    Please don’t tell me this Indian NI deal isn’t true. After a stonking message last Thursday as well?

    Indeed, it's true:

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/business/northern-ireland-economy-set-to-benefit-from-landmark-free-trade-deal-with-india-XO4TPGCXQJGEBDTRWYO7NR3OSQ/

    :smiley:
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,081
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Casino_Royale in Gregg’s

    It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?

    Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain

    Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave

    This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course

    I think it might have been Barty who called out your 4* hotel lie last week, citing Copthorne who were undergoing difficult trading prior to COVID and latterly asylum. Whoever it was specified the requirements for a hotel to be 4* and explained that all the 4*edness had been stripped out of Copthorne locations for our asylum seeking friends.

    Yet you are still allowed to post nonsense unchallenged. What next? Quoting Andrew Tate's X account as source material. Oh wait, apologies, that was Nigel Farage.
    Good luck in going to the voters while saying “it WAS a four star hotel when we took it over and gave it to asylum seekers, but we closed the gym and they only get laundry done twice a week, and free heath care, and immediate dental work, and you’re paying for it all, and you can’t use the hotel. So it’s really only like a weird 3 star with a private hospital. That you are paying for. So that these men can wander around your town freaking you out. Vote for more of this!”
    I'm not enthusiastic about my tax pounds going to a series of failing hotel groups. The boats need to be stopped for safety issues as much as for anything else. I am simply calling out your lies (sorry about the unparliamentary language, but I'm not sure what else to call it) to elicit a reaction from certain fragile on this subject posters
    It's not really a lie, though is it? These are 4-star hotels. The fact that some of the facilities are unavailable doesn't massively change this unless you're, er, whichever body is responsible for awarding stars to hotels.
    Yes it is. They are no longer regarded as 4* so you and Leon suggesting they are is a mechanism to make a political point. Or in other words it's inflammatory bollocks.
    This is a ridiculous hill to die on. It is simply a fact that asylum seekers are being housed in four star hotels.

    Look at this one. It's a modern four star hotel that was refurbished in 2022: https://www.marriott.com/en-gb/hotels/bhxwd-delta-hotels-warwick/overview/

    It's currently unavailable to book and closed to the public because it's being used to house male asylum seekers under a government contract.
    lol. The PB left is skewered and helpless. It is quite a spectacle
    So the question is when did it become a hostel for male asylum seekers im guessing 2022 but unless it was after July 2024 it’s not Labour’s fault merely Labour’s problem because the Tories were incompetent and did realise that if you don’t do the paperwork the paperwork has a habit of not disappearing
    Looks like it was last November:

    https://www.warwickshireworld.com/news/people/warwick-and-leamington-mp-issues-statement-about-warwick-hotel-housing-asylum-seekers-4878109

    Earlier this week The Courier and Weekly News shared a story about the asylum seekers reportedly being housed at the Delta Hotel off Stratford Road.

    Rumours circulating suggested the hotel could be housing around 350 male asylum seekers – leaving the hotel closed to the public.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,679
    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,889

    Please don’t tell me this Indian NI deal isn’t true. After a stonking message last Thursday as well?

    A better approach, rather than worrying about this, would be to limit the skilled worker visas all round. The much vaunted specialist curry chefs working in Dominoes, for example.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,675

    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    The header confirms that Reform is NOTA.

    Immigration is not the story, or not the whole story. PBers arguing about small boats vs the Boriswave, or asylum seekers vs illegal immigrants, are getting hung up on the precise number on the side of a bus. It matters a bit but it's not really the point.

    Luke Tryl/MiC: their new voters are less ideologically motivated to them & more likely to say Reform support is because of dislike of other parties
    https://bsky.app/profile/luketryl.bsky.social/post/3loistkxdcs2f

    ‘Dislike of other parties’ is pollster-speak for NOTA. Reform is NOTA.

    It's very simple: the mainstream parties get a grip on crime, law and order and immigration and all these fringe parties go away.

    If they don't, then they'll win instead.
    I'm not so sure. They will partially go away, but a proportion will just flit to the next fringe theory or issue.
    Oh my God.
    It's quite shocking how complacent the ultra liberals are.
    I mean, is it just fucking me?

    There's almost two dozen of them on here.

    I mean, FUCK ME.

    How dumb do you have to be?!
    I know you don't think much of my opinion but I agree with you that we are on a slippery slope to Reform UK.
    All it would take is a little empathy on the concerns and a sincere commitment to exploring solutions.

    That's it.

    Why don't we get it?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,804
    It's vaguely amusing to read some posters' depiction of modern Britain as a crime-ridden hellhole, presumably in contrast to the halcyon days of 1950-2020 when these islands were full of upstanding honest citizens who rarely stole or fought. My memory is somewhat different, and is rather better supported by the data that proper criminologists use. Growing up in Leeds from 1966 to 1980, there was much more crime of most varieties than nowadays.

    A confession: I stole a Mars bar from Hufton's in 1968, aged 12. That was my first, and I think last, crime.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,991
    Eabhal said:

    @Casino_Royale you said on the last thread shoplifting has increased by 14x in the last 10 years in the last thread.

    It's actually increased by 1.36x. A significant increase, but let's not get carried away. Overall theft is down 2%.

    The 'Simon Shows You Maps' facebook page (which if it carries any sort of political bias is fairly centrist) recently had the following graphic:

  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,335
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Casino_Royale in Gregg’s

    It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?

    Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain

    Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave

    This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course

    I think it might have been Barty who called out your 4* hotel lie last week, citing Copthorne who were undergoing difficult trading prior to COVID and latterly asylum. Whoever it was specified the requirements for a hotel to be 4* and explained that all the 4*edness had been stripped out of Copthorne locations for our asylum seeking friends.

    Yet you are still allowed to post nonsense unchallenged. What next? Quoting Andrew Tate's X account as source material. Oh wait, apologies, that was Nigel Farage.
    Good luck in going to the voters while saying “it WAS a four star hotel when we took it over and gave it to asylum seekers, but we closed the gym and they only get laundry done twice a week, and free heath care, and immediate dental work, and you’re paying for it all, and you can’t use the hotel. So it’s really only like a weird 3 star with a private hospital. That you are paying for. So that these men can wander around your town freaking you out. Vote for more of this!”
    I'm not enthusiastic about my tax pounds going to a series of failing hotel groups. The boats need to be stopped for safety issues as much as for anything else. I am simply calling out your lies (sorry about the unparliamentary language, but I'm not sure what else to call it) to elicit a reaction from certain fragile on this subject posters
    It's not really a lie, though is it? These are 4-star hotels. The fact that some of the facilities are unavailable doesn't massively change this unless you're, er, whichever body is responsible for awarding stars to hotels.
    Yes it is. They are no longer regarded as 4* so you and Leon suggesting they are is a mechanism to make a political point. Or in other words it's inflammatory bollocks.
    This is a ridiculous hill to die on. It is simply a fact that asylum seekers are being housed in four star hotels.

    Look at this one. It's a modern four star hotel that was refurbished in 2022: https://www.marriott.com/en-gb/hotels/bhxwd-delta-hotels-warwick/overview/

    It's currently unavailable to book and closed to the public because it's being used to house male asylum seekers under a government contract.
    lol. The PB left is skewered and helpless. It is quite a spectacle
    So the question is when did it become a hostel for male asylum seekers im guessing 2022 but unless it was after July 2024 it’s not Labour’s fault merely Labour’s problem because the Tories were incompetent and did realise that if you don’t do the paperwork the paperwork has a habit of not disappearing
    Looks like it WAS after the election, as there are public reviews of the place til about 6 months ago

    Ouch, if so

    One other thing being missed here is that relatively affluent (often VERY affluent) PB-ers don't know how poor many Brits are, and how staying in a medium nice business hotel like a 4 star Marriot Delta, in the Warwickshire countryside, with rooms being cleaned and free food and free laundry - and this for weeks or months and it's all paid, is an absolute dream. A dream that will never happen for them

    And even if the gym is shut and the breakfast buffet is sketchy, it is still dreamlike. And then you have to tell these British voters that THEY are paying for this, but not for Brits, they are paying to house illegal migrants who only came over cause they didn't fancy France that much, and now these migrants wander around the town scaring people

    It is difficult to think of a policy better designed to drive an electorate, especially poorer native workers, to the populist right
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,172
    Trump and Carney live on Sky
  • eekeek Posts: 29,943
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Casino_Royale in Gregg’s

    It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?

    Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain

    Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave

    This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course

    I think it might have been Barty who called out your 4* hotel lie last week, citing Copthorne who were undergoing difficult trading prior to COVID and latterly asylum. Whoever it was specified the requirements for a hotel to be 4* and explained that all the 4*edness had been stripped out of Copthorne locations for our asylum seeking friends.

    Yet you are still allowed to post nonsense unchallenged. What next? Quoting Andrew Tate's X account as source material. Oh wait, apologies, that was Nigel Farage.
    Good luck in going to the voters while saying “it WAS a four star hotel when we took it over and gave it to asylum seekers, but we closed the gym and they only get laundry done twice a week, and free heath care, and immediate dental work, and you’re paying for it all, and you can’t use the hotel. So it’s really only like a weird 3 star with a private hospital. That you are paying for. So that these men can wander around your town freaking you out. Vote for more of this!”
    I'm not enthusiastic about my tax pounds going to a series of failing hotel groups. The boats need to be stopped for safety issues as much as for anything else. I am simply calling out your lies (sorry about the unparliamentary language, but I'm not sure what else to call it) to elicit a reaction from certain fragile on this subject posters
    It's not really a lie, though is it? These are 4-star hotels. The fact that some of the facilities are unavailable doesn't massively change this unless you're, er, whichever body is responsible for awarding stars to hotels.
    Yes it is. They are no longer regarded as 4* so you and Leon suggesting they are is a mechanism to make a political point. Or in other words it's inflammatory bollocks.
    This is a ridiculous hill to die on. It is simply a fact that asylum seekers are being housed in four star hotels.

    Look at this one. It's a modern four star hotel that was refurbished in 2022: https://www.marriott.com/en-gb/hotels/bhxwd-delta-hotels-warwick/overview/

    It's currently unavailable to book and closed to the public because it's being used to house male asylum seekers under a government contract.
    lol. The PB left is skewered and helpless. It is quite a spectacle
    So the question is when did it become a hostel for male asylum seekers im guessing 2022 but unless it was after July 2024 it’s not Labour’s fault merely Labour’s problem because the Tories were incompetent and did realise that if you don’t do the paperwork the paperwork has a habit of not disappearing
    Looks like it WAS after the election, as there are public reviews of the place til about 6 months ago

    Ouch, if so

    One other thing being missed here is that relatively affluent (often VERY affluent) PB-ers don't know how poor many Brits are, and how staying in a medium nice business hotel like a 4 star Marriot Delta, in the Warwickshire countryside, with rooms being cleaned and free food and free laundry - and this for weeks or months and it's all paid, is an absolute dream. A dream that will never happen for them

    And even if the gym is shut and the breakfast buffet is sketchy, it is still dreamlike. And then you have to tell these British voters that THEY are paying for this, but not for Brits, they are paying to house illegal migrants who only came over cause they didn't fancy France that much, and now these migrants wander around the town scaring people

    It is difficult to think of a policy better designed to drive an electorate, especially poorer native workers, to the populist right
    It appears to be on the roundabout of the m40 at J15 - which I wouldn’t call the countryside but convenient for travelers.

    Downside is it’s basically in the middle of nowhere so granted asylum seekers have no money to spend but equally there is zilch to do there
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,243
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Casino_Royale in Gregg’s

    It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?

    Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain

    Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave

    This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course

    I think it might have been Barty who called out your 4* hotel lie last week, citing Copthorne who were undergoing difficult trading prior to COVID and latterly asylum. Whoever it was specified the requirements for a hotel to be 4* and explained that all the 4*edness had been stripped out of Copthorne locations for our asylum seeking friends.

    Yet you are still allowed to post nonsense unchallenged. What next? Quoting Andrew Tate's X account as source material. Oh wait, apologies, that was Nigel Farage.
    Good luck in going to the voters while saying “it WAS a four star hotel when we took it over and gave it to asylum seekers, but we closed the gym and they only get laundry done twice a week, and free heath care, and immediate dental work, and you’re paying for it all, and you can’t use the hotel. So it’s really only like a weird 3 star with a private hospital. That you are paying for. So that these men can wander around your town freaking you out. Vote for more of this!”
    I'm not enthusiastic about my tax pounds going to a series of failing hotel groups. The boats need to be stopped for safety issues as much as for anything else. I am simply calling out your lies (sorry about the unparliamentary language, but I'm not sure what else to call it) to elicit a reaction from certain fragile on this subject posters
    It's not really a lie, though is it? These are 4-star hotels. The fact that some of the facilities are unavailable doesn't massively change this unless you're, er, whichever body is responsible for awarding stars to hotels.
    Yes it is. They are no longer regarded as 4* so you and Leon suggesting they are is a mechanism to make a political point. Or in other words it's inflammatory bollocks.
    This is a ridiculous hill to die on. It is simply a fact that asylum seekers are being housed in four star hotels.

    Look at this one. It's a modern four star hotel that was refurbished in 2022: https://www.marriott.com/en-gb/hotels/bhxwd-delta-hotels-warwick/overview/

    It's currently unavailable to book and closed to the public because it's being used to house male asylum seekers under a government contract.
    lol. The PB left is skewered and helpless. It is quite a spectacle
    So the question is when did it become a hostel for male asylum seekers im guessing 2022 but unless it was after July 2024 it’s not Labour’s fault merely Labour’s problem because the Tories were incompetent and did realise that if you don’t do the paperwork the paperwork has a habit of not disappearing
    Looks like it WAS after the election, as there are public reviews of the place til about 6 months ago

    Ouch, if so

    One other thing being missed here is that relatively affluent (often VERY affluent) PB-ers don't know how poor many Brits are, and how staying in a medium nice business hotel like a 4 star Marriot Delta, in the Warwickshire countryside, with rooms being cleaned and free food and free laundry - and this for weeks or months and it's all paid, is an absolute dream. A dream that will never happen for them

    And even if the gym is shut and the breakfast buffet is sketchy, it is still dreamlike. And then you have to tell these British voters that THEY are paying for this, but not for Brits, they are paying to house illegal migrants who only came over cause they didn't fancy France that much, and now these migrants wander around the town scaring people

    It is difficult to think of a policy better designed to drive an electorate, especially poorer native workers, to the populist right
    It’s actually right next to the M40, not exactly scenic Warwickshire countryside
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 770
    Even if Labour win back all of their supporters, that still puts them at 33.7% of the vote. I'm not backing them to be largest party based on that miracle occurring.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,934
    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,991
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Casino_Royale in Gregg’s

    It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?

    Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain

    Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave

    This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course

    I think it might have been Barty who called out your 4* hotel lie last week, citing Copthorne who were undergoing difficult trading prior to COVID and latterly asylum. Whoever it was specified the requirements for a hotel to be 4* and explained that all the 4*edness had been stripped out of Copthorne locations for our asylum seeking friends.

    Yet you are still allowed to post nonsense unchallenged. What next? Quoting Andrew Tate's X account as source material. Oh wait, apologies, that was Nigel Farage.
    Good luck in going to the voters while saying “it WAS a four star hotel when we took it over and gave it to asylum seekers, but we closed the gym and they only get laundry done twice a week, and free heath care, and immediate dental work, and you’re paying for it all, and you can’t use the hotel. So it’s really only like a weird 3 star with a private hospital. That you are paying for. So that these men can wander around your town freaking you out. Vote for more of this!”
    I'm not enthusiastic about my tax pounds going to a series of failing hotel groups. The boats need to be stopped for safety issues as much as for anything else. I am simply calling out your lies (sorry about the unparliamentary language, but I'm not sure what else to call it) to elicit a reaction from certain fragile on this subject posters
    It's not really a lie, though is it? These are 4-star hotels. The fact that some of the facilities are unavailable doesn't massively change this unless you're, er, whichever body is responsible for awarding stars to hotels.
    Yes it is. They are no longer regarded as 4* so you and Leon suggesting they are is a mechanism to make a political point. Or in other words it's inflammatory bollocks.
    This is a ridiculous hill to die on. It is simply a fact that asylum seekers are being housed in four star hotels.

    Look at this one. It's a modern four star hotel that was refurbished in 2022: https://www.marriott.com/en-gb/hotels/bhxwd-delta-hotels-warwick/overview/

    It's currently unavailable to book and closed to the public because it's being used to house male asylum seekers under a government contract.
    lol. The PB left is skewered and helpless. It is quite a spectacle
    So the question is when did it become a hostel for male asylum seekers im guessing 2022 but unless it was after July 2024 it’s not Labour’s fault merely Labour’s problem because the Tories were incompetent and did realise that if you don’t do the paperwork the paperwork has a habit of not disappearing
    Looks like it WAS after the election, as there are public reviews of the place til about 6 months ago

    Ouch, if so

    One other thing being missed here is that relatively affluent (often VERY affluent) PB-ers don't know how poor many Brits are, and how staying in a medium nice business hotel like a 4 star Marriot Delta, in the Warwickshire countryside, with rooms being cleaned and free food and free laundry - and this for weeks or months and it's all paid, is an absolute dream. A dream that will never happen for them

    And even if the gym is shut and the breakfast buffet is sketchy, it is still dreamlike. And then you have to tell these British voters that THEY are paying for this, but not for Brits, they are paying to house illegal migrants who only came over cause they didn't fancy France that much, and now these migrants wander around the town scaring people

    It is difficult to think of a policy better designed to drive an electorate, especially poorer native workers, to the populist right
    But Starmer is gamely giving it a go with his 'immigrants don't have to pay NI' gambit.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,335
    Cookie said:

    Eabhal said:

    @Casino_Royale you said on the last thread shoplifting has increased by 14x in the last 10 years in the last thread.

    It's actually increased by 1.36x. A significant increase, but let's not get carried away. Overall theft is down 2%.

    The 'Simon Shows You Maps' facebook page (which if it carries any sort of political bias is fairly centrist) recently had the following graphic:

    That is surely a graphic from The Economist, it's their font and style, so presumably highly reliable

    If that is right then shoplifting has ten-tupled in ten years but somehow @Eabhal reassures us nothing has changed and we're getting laughably "excited"

    Wait, I've just checked. Yes it is legit, it's from the Economist 5 days ago

    "Broken windows and pockmarked roads

    Britain has become shabbier and more disorderly. Voters have noticed"

    https://www.economist.com/britain/2025/05/01/broken-windows-and-pockmarked-roads

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,450
    Migration is driving down living standards, say Labour voters
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/05/06/migration-driving-down-living-standards-say-labour-voters/

    Merlin, 23-24th April.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,146
    Leon said:

    Moderately interesting to see in real time PB righties gradually inhabiting the mental landscape of Reform being in charge and them being fine with it. Usual suspects of course, and some not so usual, but no big surprises really.

    Did you miss the recent election, then?

    It was quite a big one. An actual by election, several mayoralties, lots of councils

    Think of it as a MASSIVE opinion poll. With about ten million people being asked their opinions. And the result? Reform are the most popular party in the UK/England by a distance, on 30% of the vote, with Labour and the Tories down at 20% and 15%

    Britain is now, politically, rather Reform-y. Reform are the most popular party in Britain. On a website devoted to politics, esp British politics, you would expect the commentary to reflect that, and it does

    PB is not a safe space for liberals it is a forum for opinions from left and right. There would be something sadly WRONG if PB was NOT reflecting the Reform-y state of the nation
    What would be useful for Reform and for interested watchers would be to get a handle on the wider general policy preferences of Reform voters.

    Obviously the migration/asylum seeker/boats thing is central, but what else?

    My guess is that on the whole Reform voters are nationalist social democrats who like the continuing, though fragile, post WWII consensus of cradle to grave welfare, pension, NHS free, regulated private enterprise, NATO and the western alliance, global trade, law and order, social housing provision etc. They would, like everyone else, like it run better, they would like fewer annoying people on the telly. free live coverage of Test Matches, especially the Ashes, nice weather in Skegness in August, they would like other people to go to church more and Lidl Victoria sponges to have better filling and an extra layer.

    What they don't want but are going to get is: £2.3 trillion debt, £150 bn p.a. borrowing, taxes.

    I also think they don't want, whatever they say when excited, three million Muslims remigrated back to abroadland and little girls in boats machine gunned until they die.

    They are mostly very normal people. Which is troubling.

    Any other guesses?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,157

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Casino_Royale in Gregg’s

    It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?

    Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain

    Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave

    This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course

    They just don't get it.
    They are oblivious to it in their bubbles, they do not have to mix with the great unwashed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,335
    edited May 6

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Casino_Royale in Gregg’s

    It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?

    Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain

    Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave

    This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course

    I think it might have been Barty who called out your 4* hotel lie last week, citing Copthorne who were undergoing difficult trading prior to COVID and latterly asylum. Whoever it was specified the requirements for a hotel to be 4* and explained that all the 4*edness had been stripped out of Copthorne locations for our asylum seeking friends.

    Yet you are still allowed to post nonsense unchallenged. What next? Quoting Andrew Tate's X account as source material. Oh wait, apologies, that was Nigel Farage.
    Good luck in going to the voters while saying “it WAS a four star hotel when we took it over and gave it to asylum seekers, but we closed the gym and they only get laundry done twice a week, and free heath care, and immediate dental work, and you’re paying for it all, and you can’t use the hotel. So it’s really only like a weird 3 star with a private hospital. That you are paying for. So that these men can wander around your town freaking you out. Vote for more of this!”
    I'm not enthusiastic about my tax pounds going to a series of failing hotel groups. The boats need to be stopped for safety issues as much as for anything else. I am simply calling out your lies (sorry about the unparliamentary language, but I'm not sure what else to call it) to elicit a reaction from certain fragile on this subject posters
    It's not really a lie, though is it? These are 4-star hotels. The fact that some of the facilities are unavailable doesn't massively change this unless you're, er, whichever body is responsible for awarding stars to hotels.
    Yes it is. They are no longer regarded as 4* so you and Leon suggesting they are is a mechanism to make a political point. Or in other words it's inflammatory bollocks.
    This is a ridiculous hill to die on. It is simply a fact that asylum seekers are being housed in four star hotels.

    Look at this one. It's a modern four star hotel that was refurbished in 2022: https://www.marriott.com/en-gb/hotels/bhxwd-delta-hotels-warwick/overview/

    It's currently unavailable to book and closed to the public because it's being used to house male asylum seekers under a government contract.
    lol. The PB left is skewered and helpless. It is quite a spectacle
    So the question is when did it become a hostel for male asylum seekers im guessing 2022 but unless it was after July 2024 it’s not Labour’s fault merely Labour’s problem because the Tories were incompetent and did realise that if you don’t do the paperwork the paperwork has a habit of not disappearing
    Looks like it WAS after the election, as there are public reviews of the place til about 6 months ago

    Ouch, if so

    One other thing being missed here is that relatively affluent (often VERY affluent) PB-ers don't know how poor many Brits are, and how staying in a medium nice business hotel like a 4 star Marriot Delta, in the Warwickshire countryside, with rooms being cleaned and free food and free laundry - and this for weeks or months and it's all paid, is an absolute dream. A dream that will never happen for them

    And even if the gym is shut and the breakfast buffet is sketchy, it is still dreamlike. And then you have to tell these British voters that THEY are paying for this, but not for Brits, they are paying to house illegal migrants who only came over cause they didn't fancy France that much, and now these migrants wander around the town scaring people

    It is difficult to think of a policy better designed to drive an electorate, especially poorer native workers, to the populist right
    It’s actually right next to the M40, not exactly scenic Warwickshire countryside
    Again, another brilliant point for Labour's 2028 election campaign

    "Yes, you're paying to put illegal migrants in four star hotels with private healthcare, hotels which are then closed to you, but OFTEN thse hotels have good access to nearby motorways, so it's all great. Vote Labour for more of this!"

    Slap it on a poster
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 985
    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
    This is the worst part:
    " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else."
    So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.


    Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,243
    edited May 6
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Casino_Royale in Gregg’s

    It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?

    Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain

    Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave

    This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course

    I think it might have been Barty who called out your 4* hotel lie last week, citing Copthorne who were undergoing difficult trading prior to COVID and latterly asylum. Whoever it was specified the requirements for a hotel to be 4* and explained that all the 4*edness had been stripped out of Copthorne locations for our asylum seeking friends.

    Yet you are still allowed to post nonsense unchallenged. What next? Quoting Andrew Tate's X account as source material. Oh wait, apologies, that was Nigel Farage.
    Good luck in going to the voters while saying “it WAS a four star hotel when we took it over and gave it to asylum seekers, but we closed the gym and they only get laundry done twice a week, and free heath care, and immediate dental work, and you’re paying for it all, and you can’t use the hotel. So it’s really only like a weird 3 star with a private hospital. That you are paying for. So that these men can wander around your town freaking you out. Vote for more of this!”
    I'm not enthusiastic about my tax pounds going to a series of failing hotel groups. The boats need to be stopped for safety issues as much as for anything else. I am simply calling out your lies (sorry about the unparliamentary language, but I'm not sure what else to call it) to elicit a reaction from certain fragile on this subject posters
    It's not really a lie, though is it? These are 4-star hotels. The fact that some of the facilities are unavailable doesn't massively change this unless you're, er, whichever body is responsible for awarding stars to hotels.
    Yes it is. They are no longer regarded as 4* so you and Leon suggesting they are is a mechanism to make a political point. Or in other words it's inflammatory bollocks.
    This is a ridiculous hill to die on. It is simply a fact that asylum seekers are being housed in four star hotels.

    Look at this one. It's a modern four star hotel that was refurbished in 2022: https://www.marriott.com/en-gb/hotels/bhxwd-delta-hotels-warwick/overview/

    It's currently unavailable to book and closed to the public because it's being used to house male asylum seekers under a government contract.
    lol. The PB left is skewered and helpless. It is quite a spectacle
    So the question is when did it become a hostel for male asylum seekers im guessing 2022 but unless it was after July 2024 it’s not Labour’s fault merely Labour’s problem because the Tories were incompetent and did realise that if you don’t do the paperwork the paperwork has a habit of not disappearing
    Looks like it WAS after the election, as there are public reviews of the place til about 6 months ago

    Ouch, if so

    One other thing being missed here is that relatively affluent (often VERY affluent) PB-ers don't know how poor many Brits are, and how staying in a medium nice business hotel like a 4 star Marriot Delta, in the Warwickshire countryside, with rooms being cleaned and free food and free laundry - and this for weeks or months and it's all paid, is an absolute dream. A dream that will never happen for them

    And even if the gym is shut and the breakfast buffet is sketchy, it is still dreamlike. And then you have to tell these British voters that THEY are paying for this, but not for Brits, they are paying to house illegal migrants who only came over cause they didn't fancy France that much, and now these migrants wander around the town scaring people

    It is difficult to think of a policy better designed to drive an electorate, especially poorer native workers, to the populist right
    It’s actually right next to the M40, not exactly scenic Warwickshire countryside
    Again, another brilliant point for Labour's 2028 election campaign

    "Yes, you're paying to put illegal migrants in four star hotels with private healthcare, hotels which are then closed to you, but OFTEN thse hotels have good access to nearby motorways, so it's all great. Vote Labour for more of this!"

    Slap it on a poster
    It’s ok, I don’t work for the Labour Party. I was merely correcting you.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,157
    carnforth said:

    Has Starmer really just agreed an Indian trade deal that Indians coming to work do not have to pay National Insurance for 3 years?

    Seems Badenoch and the Lib Dems are distinctly unhappy and if true, goodness knows what Farage will say

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1919775482167361715?t=o06IkR3woHnneSqyBRitvA&s=19

    As I posted above, this appears to be a common provision in our trade deals, including recent Chilean, Korean and Japanese ones. Happy to be corrected.

    great negotiators , you give us a tenner and we will give you twenty , how does that suit Mr Modi. Please take your time thinking about it.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,991
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Moderately interesting to see in real time PB righties gradually inhabiting the mental landscape of Reform being in charge and them being fine with it. Usual suspects of course, and some not so usual, but no big surprises really.

    Did you miss the recent election, then?

    It was quite a big one. An actual by election, several mayoralties, lots of councils

    Think of it as a MASSIVE opinion poll. With about ten million people being asked their opinions. And the result? Reform are the most popular party in the UK/England by a distance, on 30% of the vote, with Labour and the Tories down at 20% and 15%

    Britain is now, politically, rather Reform-y. Reform are the most popular party in Britain. On a website devoted to politics, esp British politics, you would expect the commentary to reflect that, and it does

    PB is not a safe space for liberals it is a forum for opinions from left and right. There would be something sadly WRONG if PB was NOT reflecting the Reform-y state of the nation
    What would be useful for Reform and for interested watchers would be to get a handle on the wider general policy preferences of Reform voters.

    Obviously the migration/asylum seeker/boats thing is central, but what else?

    My guess is that on the whole Reform voters are nationalist social democrats who like the continuing, though fragile, post WWII consensus of cradle to grave welfare, pension, NHS free, regulated private enterprise, NATO and the western alliance, global trade, law and order, social housing provision etc. They would, like everyone else, like it run better, they would like fewer annoying people on the telly. free live coverage of Test Matches, especially the Ashes, nice weather in Skegness in August, they would like other people to go to church more and Lidl Victoria sponges to have better filling and an extra layer.

    What they don't want but are going to get is: £2.3 trillion debt, £150 bn p.a. borrowing, taxes.

    I also think they don't want, whatever they say when excited, three million Muslims remigrated back to abroadland and little girls in boats machine gunned until they die.

    They are mostly very normal people. Which is troubling.

    Any other guesses?
    They don't want 3 million Muslims remigrated back to abroadland, no. Because they know at least one or two of them. But nor do they want another 3 million from the Middle East to come here.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,340
    edited May 6
    Cookie said:

    Eabhal said:

    @Casino_Royale you said on the last thread shoplifting has increased by 14x in the last 10 years in the last thread.

    It's actually increased by 1.36x. A significant increase, but let's not get carried away. Overall theft is down 2%.

    The 'Simon Shows You Maps' facebook page (which if it carries any sort of political bias is fairly centrist) recently had the following graphic:


    So the question is why different data is picking up such different results. It might be to do with sampling staff versus sampling businesses. Tbh, it might indicate something a bit more concerning which is that staff aren't bothering to report it, or that businesses are detecting and recording it in a way they weren't before.

    I guess a massive increase in one type of shoplifting - supermarket sweep - could get obscured by broader stats.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,500

    Moderately interesting to see in real time PB righties gradually inhabiting the mental landscape of Reform being in charge and them being fine with it. Usual suspects of course, and some not so usual, but no big surprises really.

    You're causing it.

    You're too dumb to see it.
    Over the next few years I foresee much rightwing foaming at the mouth (cf Trump) about how the libs made me do it, part of the wholesale self-pitying surrender of the right on personal responsibility.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,737
    Did Starmer just agree to exempt Indian economic migrants from NICs? Including employers!!!???

    Does Labour have a death wish?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,335
    My God, it's true


    "As part of the agreement, the UK and India will strike a double contribution convention under which Indian workers temporarily living in the UK will not have to pay national insurance contributions for three years. The same applies to British workers in India, and meets a key demand by Delhi."

    Guardian

    *Vote Labour so you won't have a job as we're giving it to Indians who are much cheaper, Indians that we've just invited over, now please stop thinking about the hotels*
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,112
    Nunu5 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
    This is the worst part:
    " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else."
    So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.


    Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
    We still don’t really have any clarity on whether this is true or not, but I am assuming most MPs are so oblivious nowadays to what people actually care about they make these kinds of errors.

    But it wasn’t like they weren’t clearly told last Thursday. It’s like the public vote for something like Brexit, mainly around immigration, and numbers go up massively. Then this. What next - 4 star hotels for asylum seekers next to the m40?!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,335
    Nunu5 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
    This is the worst part:
    " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else."
    So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.


    Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
    It's basically a suicide note. At this point I believe Starmer is either a Russian plant or he's having a gay affair with Nigel
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,404
    Eabhal said:

    Cookie said:

    Eabhal said:

    @Casino_Royale you said on the last thread shoplifting has increased by 14x in the last 10 years in the last thread.

    It's actually increased by 1.36x. A significant increase, but let's not get carried away. Overall theft is down 2%.

    The 'Simon Shows You Maps' facebook page (which if it carries any sort of political bias is fairly centrist) recently had the following graphic:


    So the question is why different data is picking up such different results. It might be to do with sampling staff versus sampling businesses. Tbh, it might indicate something a bit more concerning which is that staff aren't bothering to report it, or that businesses are detecting and recording it in a way they weren't before.

    I guess a massive increase in one type of shoplifting - supermarket sweep - could get obscured by broader stats.
    Probably a reporting issue, what’s the point reporting it if nothing is done. Think crime statistics vs the results of the crime survey.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,737
    Leon said:

    My God, it's true


    "As part of the agreement, the UK and India will strike a double contribution convention under which Indian workers temporarily living in the UK will not have to pay national insurance contributions for three years. The same applies to British workers in India, and meets a key demand by Delhi."

    Guardian

    *Vote Labour so you won't have a job as we're giving it to Indians who are much cheaper, Indians that we've just invited over, now please stop thinking about the hotels*

    It's like Starmer has put his entire family home and his pension on a bet that he only gets one term.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 985
    malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    Has Starmer really just agreed an Indian trade deal that Indians coming to work do not have to pay National Insurance for 3 years?

    Seems Badenoch and the Lib Dems are distinctly unhappy and if true, goodness knows what Farage will say

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1919775482167361715?t=o06IkR3woHnneSqyBRitvA&s=19

    As I posted above, this appears to be a common provision in our trade deals, including recent Chilean, Korean and Japanese ones. Happy to be corrected.

    great negotiators , you give us a tenner and we will give you twenty , how does that suit Mr Modi. Please take your time thinking about it.
    Our governments hate us. Especially Labour.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,500
    Leon said:

    Moderately interesting to see in real time PB righties gradually inhabiting the mental landscape of Reform being in charge and them being fine with it. Usual suspects of course, and some not so usual, but no big surprises really.

    Did you miss the recent election, then?

    It was quite a big one. An actual by election, several mayoralties, lots of councils

    Think of it as a MASSIVE opinion poll. With about ten million people being asked their opinions. And the result? Reform are the most popular party in the UK/England by a distance, on 30% of the vote, with Labour and the Tories down at 20% and 15%

    Britain is now, politically, rather Reform-y. Reform are the most popular party in Britain. On a website devoted to politics, esp British politics, you would expect the commentary to reflect that, and it does

    PB is not a safe space for liberals it is a forum for opinions from left and right. There would be something sadly WRONG if PB was NOT reflecting the Reform-y state of the nation
    ‘The most popular party in the UK/England’

    Lol, good save.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,913
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Casino_Royale in Gregg’s

    It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?

    Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain

    Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave

    This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course

    I think it might have been Barty who called out your 4* hotel lie last week, citing Copthorne who were undergoing difficult trading prior to COVID and latterly asylum. Whoever it was specified the requirements for a hotel to be 4* and explained that all the 4*edness had been stripped out of Copthorne locations for our asylum seeking friends.

    Yet you are still allowed to post nonsense unchallenged. What next? Quoting Andrew Tate's X account as source material. Oh wait, apologies, that was Nigel Farage.
    Good luck in going to the voters while saying “it WAS a four star hotel when we took it over and gave it to asylum seekers, but we closed the gym and they only get laundry done twice a week, and free heath care, and immediate dental work, and you’re paying for it all, and you can’t use the hotel. So it’s really only like a weird 3 star with a private hospital. That you are paying for. So that these men can wander around your town freaking you out. Vote for more of this!”
    I'm not enthusiastic about my tax pounds going to a series of failing hotel groups. The boats need to be stopped for safety issues as much as for anything else. I am simply calling out your lies (sorry about the unparliamentary language, but I'm not sure what else to call it) to elicit a reaction from certain fragile on this subject posters
    It's not really a lie, though is it? These are 4-star hotels. The fact that some of the facilities are unavailable doesn't massively change this unless you're, er, whichever body is responsible for awarding stars to hotels.
    Yes it is. They are no longer regarded as 4* so you and Leon suggesting they are is a mechanism to make a political point. Or in other words it's inflammatory bollocks.
    This is a ridiculous hill to die on. It is simply a fact that asylum seekers are being housed in four star hotels.

    Look at this one. It's a modern four star hotel that was refurbished in 2022: https://www.marriott.com/en-gb/hotels/bhxwd-delta-hotels-warwick/overview/

    It's currently unavailable to book and closed to the public because it's being used to house male asylum seekers under a government contract.
    lol. The PB left is skewered and helpless. It is quite a spectacle
    So the question is when did it become a hostel for male asylum seekers im guessing 2022 but unless it was after July 2024 it’s not Labour’s fault merely Labour’s problem because the Tories were incompetent and did realise that if you don’t do the paperwork the paperwork has a habit of not disappearing
    Looks like it WAS after the election, as there are public reviews of the place til about 6 months ago

    Ouch, if so

    One other thing being missed here is that relatively affluent (often VERY affluent) PB-ers don't know how poor many Brits are, and how staying in a medium nice business hotel like a 4 star Marriot Delta, in the Warwickshire countryside, with rooms being cleaned and free food and free laundry - and this for weeks or months and it's all paid, is an absolute dream. A dream that will never happen for them

    And even if the gym is shut and the breakfast buffet is sketchy, it is still dreamlike. And then you have to tell these British voters that THEY are paying for this, but not for Brits, they are paying to house illegal migrants who only came over cause they didn't fancy France that much, and now these migrants wander around the town scaring people

    It is difficult to think of a policy better designed to drive an electorate, especially poorer native workers, to the populist right
    What, surely not. Just tell any complainers they are racist.

    Meanwhile. I is a Roadman, innit. The coolest Roadman in town
    https://x.com/lymck09/status/1917441499026911693?s=61
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,243
    Nunu5 said:

    malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    Has Starmer really just agreed an Indian trade deal that Indians coming to work do not have to pay National Insurance for 3 years?

    Seems Badenoch and the Lib Dems are distinctly unhappy and if true, goodness knows what Farage will say

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1919775482167361715?t=o06IkR3woHnneSqyBRitvA&s=19

    As I posted above, this appears to be a common provision in our trade deals, including recent Chilean, Korean and Japanese ones. Happy to be corrected.

    great negotiators , you give us a tenner and we will give you twenty , how does that suit Mr Modi. Please take your time thinking about it.
    Our governments hate us. Especially Labour.
    Speak for yourself
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,335
    edited May 6

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Casino_Royale in Gregg’s

    It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?

    Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain

    Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave

    This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course

    I think it might have been Barty who called out your 4* hotel lie last week, citing Copthorne who were undergoing difficult trading prior to COVID and latterly asylum. Whoever it was specified the requirements for a hotel to be 4* and explained that all the 4*edness had been stripped out of Copthorne locations for our asylum seeking friends.

    Yet you are still allowed to post nonsense unchallenged. What next? Quoting Andrew Tate's X account as source material. Oh wait, apologies, that was Nigel Farage.
    Good luck in going to the voters while saying “it WAS a four star hotel when we took it over and gave it to asylum seekers, but we closed the gym and they only get laundry done twice a week, and free heath care, and immediate dental work, and you’re paying for it all, and you can’t use the hotel. So it’s really only like a weird 3 star with a private hospital. That you are paying for. So that these men can wander around your town freaking you out. Vote for more of this!”
    I'm not enthusiastic about my tax pounds going to a series of failing hotel groups. The boats need to be stopped for safety issues as much as for anything else. I am simply calling out your lies (sorry about the unparliamentary language, but I'm not sure what else to call it) to elicit a reaction from certain fragile on this subject posters
    It's not really a lie, though is it? These are 4-star hotels. The fact that some of the facilities are unavailable doesn't massively change this unless you're, er, whichever body is responsible for awarding stars to hotels.
    Yes it is. They are no longer regarded as 4* so you and Leon suggesting they are is a mechanism to make a political point. Or in other words it's inflammatory bollocks.
    This is a ridiculous hill to die on. It is simply a fact that asylum seekers are being housed in four star hotels.

    Look at this one. It's a modern four star hotel that was refurbished in 2022: https://www.marriott.com/en-gb/hotels/bhxwd-delta-hotels-warwick/overview/

    It's currently unavailable to book and closed to the public because it's being used to house male asylum seekers under a government contract.
    lol. The PB left is skewered and helpless. It is quite a spectacle
    So the question is when did it become a hostel for male asylum seekers im guessing 2022 but unless it was after July 2024 it’s not Labour’s fault merely Labour’s problem because the Tories were incompetent and did realise that if you don’t do the paperwork the paperwork has a habit of not disappearing
    Looks like it WAS after the election, as there are public reviews of the place til about 6 months ago

    Ouch, if so

    One other thing being missed here is that relatively affluent (often VERY affluent) PB-ers don't know how poor many Brits are, and how staying in a medium nice business hotel like a 4 star Marriot Delta, in the Warwickshire countryside, with rooms being cleaned and free food and free laundry - and this for weeks or months and it's all paid, is an absolute dream. A dream that will never happen for them

    And even if the gym is shut and the breakfast buffet is sketchy, it is still dreamlike. And then you have to tell these British voters that THEY are paying for this, but not for Brits, they are paying to house illegal migrants who only came over cause they didn't fancy France that much, and now these migrants wander around the town scaring people

    It is difficult to think of a policy better designed to drive an electorate, especially poorer native workers, to the populist right
    It’s actually right next to the M40, not exactly scenic Warwickshire countryside
    Again, another brilliant point for Labour's 2028 election campaign

    "Yes, you're paying to put illegal migrants in four star hotels with private healthcare, hotels which are then closed to you, but OFTEN thse hotels have good access to nearby motorways, so it's all great. Vote Labour for more of this!"

    Slap it on a poster
    It’s ok, I don’t work for the Labour Party. I was merely correcting you.
    So you're now all accepting that Yes we are putting asylum seekers in 4 star hotels, but it's different because "sometimes these hotels are near motorway roundabouts, so that makes it easier for the migrants to go to other places in the UK, which is nice for them"

    Is that the new angle?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,934
    Eabhal said:

    Cookie said:

    Eabhal said:

    @Casino_Royale you said on the last thread shoplifting has increased by 14x in the last 10 years in the last thread.

    It's actually increased by 1.36x. A significant increase, but let's not get carried away. Overall theft is down 2%.

    The 'Simon Shows You Maps' facebook page (which if it carries any sort of political bias is fairly centrist) recently had the following graphic:


    So the question is why different data is picking up such different results. It might be to do with sampling staff versus sampling businesses. Tbh, it might indicate something a bit more concerning which is that staff aren't bothering to report it, or that businesses are detecting and recording it in a way they weren't before.

    I guess a massive increase in one type of shoplifting - supermarket sweep - could get obscured by broader stats.
    Because the government and police are lying about the issue to keep people like you happy and voting for them.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,737


    Kemi Badenoch

    @KemiBadenoch
    ·
    59m
    This is two-tier taxes from two-tier Keir.
    I refused to sign this deal because:

    1️⃣ Tax refunds for Indians not available to us

    2️⃣ Visa requests too high

    3️⃣ Ceramics and Aluminium industries would be screwed.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Casino_Royale in Gregg’s

    It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?

    Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain

    Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave

    This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course

    I think it might have been Barty who called out your 4* hotel lie last week, citing Copthorne who were undergoing difficult trading prior to COVID and latterly asylum. Whoever it was specified the requirements for a hotel to be 4* and explained that all the 4*edness had been stripped out of Copthorne locations for our asylum seeking friends.

    Yet you are still allowed to post nonsense unchallenged. What next? Quoting Andrew Tate's X account as source material. Oh wait, apologies, that was Nigel Farage.
    Good luck in going to the voters while saying “it WAS a four star hotel when we took it over and gave it to asylum seekers, but we closed the gym and they only get laundry done twice a week, and free heath care, and immediate dental work, and you’re paying for it all, and you can’t use the hotel. So it’s really only like a weird 3 star with a private hospital. That you are paying for. So that these men can wander around your town freaking you out. Vote for more of this!”
    I'm not enthusiastic about my tax pounds going to a series of failing hotel groups. The boats need to be stopped for safety issues as much as for anything else. I am simply calling out your lies (sorry about the unparliamentary language, but I'm not sure what else to call it) to elicit a reaction from certain fragile on this subject posters
    It's not really a lie, though is it? These are 4-star hotels. The fact that some of the facilities are unavailable doesn't massively change this unless you're, er, whichever body is responsible for awarding stars to hotels.
    Yes it is. They are no longer regarded as 4* so you and Leon suggesting they are is a mechanism to make a political point. Or in other words it's inflammatory bollocks.
    This is a ridiculous hill to die on. It is simply a fact that asylum seekers are being housed in four star hotels.

    Look at this one. It's a modern four star hotel that was refurbished in 2022: https://www.marriott.com/en-gb/hotels/bhxwd-delta-hotels-warwick/overview/

    It's currently unavailable to book and closed to the public because it's being used to house male asylum seekers under a government contract.
    lol. The PB left is skewered and helpless. It is quite a spectacle
    So the question is when did it become a hostel for male asylum seekers im guessing 2022 but unless it was after July 2024 it’s not Labour’s fault merely Labour’s problem because the Tories were incompetent and did realise that if you don’t do the paperwork the paperwork has a habit of not disappearing
    Looks like it WAS after the election, as there are public reviews of the place til about 6 months ago

    Ouch, if so

    One other thing being missed here is that relatively affluent (often VERY affluent) PB-ers don't know how poor many Brits are, and how staying in a medium nice business hotel like a 4 star Marriot Delta, in the Warwickshire countryside, with rooms being cleaned and free food and free laundry - and this for weeks or months and it's all paid, is an absolute dream. A dream that will never happen for them

    And even if the gym is shut and the breakfast buffet is sketchy, it is still dreamlike. And then you have to tell these British voters that THEY are paying for this, but not for Brits, they are paying to house illegal migrants who only came over cause they didn't fancy France that much, and now these migrants wander around the town scaring people

    It is difficult to think of a policy better designed to drive an electorate, especially poorer native workers, to the populist right
    It’s actually right next to the M40, not exactly scenic Warwickshire countryside
    Again, another brilliant point for Labour's 2028 election campaign

    "Yes, you're paying to put illegal migrants in four star hotels with private healthcare, hotels which are then closed to you, but OFTEN thse hotels have good access to nearby motorways, so it's all great. Vote Labour for more of this!"

    Slap it on a poster
    It's 500m from the river Avon and 2k from Warwick Castle. I really think that counts a a premium location
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,532

    Trump and Carney live on Sky

    I think that is unfair to Carney, but yes Trump is definitely extra terrestrial.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,243
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Casino_Royale in Gregg’s

    It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?

    Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain

    Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave

    This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course

    I think it might have been Barty who called out your 4* hotel lie last week, citing Copthorne who were undergoing difficult trading prior to COVID and latterly asylum. Whoever it was specified the requirements for a hotel to be 4* and explained that all the 4*edness had been stripped out of Copthorne locations for our asylum seeking friends.

    Yet you are still allowed to post nonsense unchallenged. What next? Quoting Andrew Tate's X account as source material. Oh wait, apologies, that was Nigel Farage.
    Good luck in going to the voters while saying “it WAS a four star hotel when we took it over and gave it to asylum seekers, but we closed the gym and they only get laundry done twice a week, and free heath care, and immediate dental work, and you’re paying for it all, and you can’t use the hotel. So it’s really only like a weird 3 star with a private hospital. That you are paying for. So that these men can wander around your town freaking you out. Vote for more of this!”
    I'm not enthusiastic about my tax pounds going to a series of failing hotel groups. The boats need to be stopped for safety issues as much as for anything else. I am simply calling out your lies (sorry about the unparliamentary language, but I'm not sure what else to call it) to elicit a reaction from certain fragile on this subject posters
    It's not really a lie, though is it? These are 4-star hotels. The fact that some of the facilities are unavailable doesn't massively change this unless you're, er, whichever body is responsible for awarding stars to hotels.
    Yes it is. They are no longer regarded as 4* so you and Leon suggesting they are is a mechanism to make a political point. Or in other words it's inflammatory bollocks.
    This is a ridiculous hill to die on. It is simply a fact that asylum seekers are being housed in four star hotels.

    Look at this one. It's a modern four star hotel that was refurbished in 2022: https://www.marriott.com/en-gb/hotels/bhxwd-delta-hotels-warwick/overview/

    It's currently unavailable to book and closed to the public because it's being used to house male asylum seekers under a government contract.
    lol. The PB left is skewered and helpless. It is quite a spectacle
    So the question is when did it become a hostel for male asylum seekers im guessing 2022 but unless it was after July 2024 it’s not Labour’s fault merely Labour’s problem because the Tories were incompetent and did realise that if you don’t do the paperwork the paperwork has a habit of not disappearing
    Looks like it WAS after the election, as there are public reviews of the place til about 6 months ago

    Ouch, if so

    One other thing being missed here is that relatively affluent (often VERY affluent) PB-ers don't know how poor many Brits are, and how staying in a medium nice business hotel like a 4 star Marriot Delta, in the Warwickshire countryside, with rooms being cleaned and free food and free laundry - and this for weeks or months and it's all paid, is an absolute dream. A dream that will never happen for them

    And even if the gym is shut and the breakfast buffet is sketchy, it is still dreamlike. And then you have to tell these British voters that THEY are paying for this, but not for Brits, they are paying to house illegal migrants who only came over cause they didn't fancy France that much, and now these migrants wander around the town scaring people

    It is difficult to think of a policy better designed to drive an electorate, especially poorer native workers, to the populist right
    It’s actually right next to the M40, not exactly scenic Warwickshire countryside
    Again, another brilliant point for Labour's 2028 election campaign

    "Yes, you're paying to put illegal migrants in four star hotels with private healthcare, hotels which are then closed to you, but OFTEN thse hotels have good access to nearby motorways, so it's all great. Vote Labour for more of this!"

    Slap it on a poster
    It’s ok, I don’t work for the Labour Party. I was merely correcting you.
    So you're now all accepting that Yes we are putting asylum seekers in 4 star hotels, but it's different because sometimes these hotels are near motorway roundabouts

    Is that the new angle?
    There’s no angle. I don’t speak for the “woke” or “liberals”. I just found it funny how wrong you were.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,071
    malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    Has Starmer really just agreed an Indian trade deal that Indians coming to work do not have to pay National Insurance for 3 years?

    Seems Badenoch and the Lib Dems are distinctly unhappy and if true, goodness knows what Farage will say

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1919775482167361715?t=o06IkR3woHnneSqyBRitvA&s=19

    As I posted above, this appears to be a common provision in our trade deals, including recent Chilean, Korean and Japanese ones. Happy to be corrected.

    great negotiators , you give us a tenner and we will give you twenty , how does that suit Mr Modi. Please take your time thinking about it.
    It's a pretty good deal for your whisky manufacturers - who were previously subject to a 150% tariff.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 985

    Meanwhile this vile government is moving its vile anti-farmer legislation in the House of Lords today. Legislation so vile, so evil that no former Labour Agriculture minister is prepared to stay around for the vote.

    There used to be a contract between agriculture and the wider public. No more as long as this most evil government since 1685 marches on to its own eventual unlamented end.

    This money will have to be recovered, probably from the pension pots of former Labour front benchers. It is malfeasance in public office.

    It is theft.

    🎻

    Abolishing a tax break that didn't even exist a few decades ago is theft and evil on a level not seen since 1685? Hyperbole much?

    Taxes should be low, consistent and equally applied to all. If the tax should be abolished, it should be abolished for all. If it should be levied, it should be levied on all, including farmers.
    Equally applied to all? Well now Indian workers coming here will have a tax advantage, thanks to Starmer.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,243

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Casino_Royale in Gregg’s

    It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?

    Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain

    Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave

    This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course

    I think it might have been Barty who called out your 4* hotel lie last week, citing Copthorne who were undergoing difficult trading prior to COVID and latterly asylum. Whoever it was specified the requirements for a hotel to be 4* and explained that all the 4*edness had been stripped out of Copthorne locations for our asylum seeking friends.

    Yet you are still allowed to post nonsense unchallenged. What next? Quoting Andrew Tate's X account as source material. Oh wait, apologies, that was Nigel Farage.
    Good luck in going to the voters while saying “it WAS a four star hotel when we took it over and gave it to asylum seekers, but we closed the gym and they only get laundry done twice a week, and free heath care, and immediate dental work, and you’re paying for it all, and you can’t use the hotel. So it’s really only like a weird 3 star with a private hospital. That you are paying for. So that these men can wander around your town freaking you out. Vote for more of this!”
    I'm not enthusiastic about my tax pounds going to a series of failing hotel groups. The boats need to be stopped for safety issues as much as for anything else. I am simply calling out your lies (sorry about the unparliamentary language, but I'm not sure what else to call it) to elicit a reaction from certain fragile on this subject posters
    It's not really a lie, though is it? These are 4-star hotels. The fact that some of the facilities are unavailable doesn't massively change this unless you're, er, whichever body is responsible for awarding stars to hotels.
    Yes it is. They are no longer regarded as 4* so you and Leon suggesting they are is a mechanism to make a political point. Or in other words it's inflammatory bollocks.
    This is a ridiculous hill to die on. It is simply a fact that asylum seekers are being housed in four star hotels.

    Look at this one. It's a modern four star hotel that was refurbished in 2022: https://www.marriott.com/en-gb/hotels/bhxwd-delta-hotels-warwick/overview/

    It's currently unavailable to book and closed to the public because it's being used to house male asylum seekers under a government contract.
    lol. The PB left is skewered and helpless. It is quite a spectacle
    So the question is when did it become a hostel for male asylum seekers im guessing 2022 but unless it was after July 2024 it’s not Labour’s fault merely Labour’s problem because the Tories were incompetent and did realise that if you don’t do the paperwork the paperwork has a habit of not disappearing
    Looks like it WAS after the election, as there are public reviews of the place til about 6 months ago

    Ouch, if so

    One other thing being missed here is that relatively affluent (often VERY affluent) PB-ers don't know how poor many Brits are, and how staying in a medium nice business hotel like a 4 star Marriot Delta, in the Warwickshire countryside, with rooms being cleaned and free food and free laundry - and this for weeks or months and it's all paid, is an absolute dream. A dream that will never happen for them

    And even if the gym is shut and the breakfast buffet is sketchy, it is still dreamlike. And then you have to tell these British voters that THEY are paying for this, but not for Brits, they are paying to house illegal migrants who only came over cause they didn't fancy France that much, and now these migrants wander around the town scaring people

    It is difficult to think of a policy better designed to drive an electorate, especially poorer native workers, to the populist right
    It’s actually right next to the M40, not exactly scenic Warwickshire countryside
    Again, another brilliant point for Labour's 2028 election campaign

    "Yes, you're paying to put illegal migrants in four star hotels with private healthcare, hotels which are then closed to you, but OFTEN thse hotels have good access to nearby motorways, so it's all great. Vote Labour for more of this!"

    Slap it on a poster
    It's 500m from the river Avon and 2k from Warwick Castle. I really think that counts a a premium location
    You’ve clearly never been to Warwick Castle
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,335
    This is why the Chagos Deal is so emblematic

    In every single arena, Labour do what is worst for the British people, and Britain, and what is best for foreigners, from trade to migration to foreign policy: Britain comes last. The government seeks to impoverish and immiserate us, to an extent that they will make deals so bad that no one can sanely explain them
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,172
    edited May 6
    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
    This is the worst part:
    " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else."
    So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.


    Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
    It's basically a suicide note. At this point I believe Starmer is either a Russian plant or he's having a gay affair with Nigel
    I am utterly astonished at the stupidity of exempting Indian workers from NI for 3 years whilst imposing huge increases on UK workers and making Indian 20% cheaper to employ

    Badenoch was quick in attacking it as was the Lib Dems but Farage is just going to get a load more supporters

    I thought Sunak was poor politically but Starmer leaves him way behind with seemingly no political nous at all
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,565
    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    There are far more British consumers of clothes, footwear and food products and it is good news for them.

    Any vested interests complaining about competition should be told to get in the bin. The country doesn't exist to serve producer interests.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,737
    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    carnforth said:

    Has Starmer really just agreed an Indian trade deal that Indians coming to work do not have to pay National Insurance for 3 years?

    Seems Badenoch and the Lib Dems are distinctly unhappy and if true, goodness knows what Farage will say

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1919775482167361715?t=o06IkR3woHnneSqyBRitvA&s=19

    As I posted above, this appears to be a common provision in our trade deals, including recent Chilean, Korean and Japanese ones. Happy to be corrected.

    great negotiators , you give us a tenner and we will give you twenty , how does that suit Mr Modi. Please take your time thinking about it.
    It's a pretty good deal for your whisky manufacturers - who were previously subject to a 150% tariff.
    "this appears to be a common provision in our trade deals, including recent Chilean, Korean and Japanese ones."

    I look forward to the Labour poster that has that printed on it.

    Have they actually read the results of last week's local elections? Maybe they think the results were from another country?
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,913
    Nunu5 said:

    Meanwhile this vile government is moving its vile anti-farmer legislation in the House of Lords today. Legislation so vile, so evil that no former Labour Agriculture minister is prepared to stay around for the vote.

    There used to be a contract between agriculture and the wider public. No more as long as this most evil government since 1685 marches on to its own eventual unlamented end.

    This money will have to be recovered, probably from the pension pots of former Labour front benchers. It is malfeasance in public office.

    It is theft.

    🎻

    Abolishing a tax break that didn't even exist a few decades ago is theft and evil on a level not seen since 1685? Hyperbole much?

    Taxes should be low, consistent and equally applied to all. If the tax should be abolished, it should be abolished for all. If it should be levied, it should be levied on all, including farmers.
    Equally applied to all? Well now Indian workers coming here will have a tax advantage, thanks to Starmer.
    But no state pension entitlement.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,172

    Trump and Carney live on Sky

    I think that is unfair to Carney, but yes Trump is definitely extra terrestrial.
    I am not sure why these leaders go through these embarrassing conferences
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,243
    Taz said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Meanwhile this vile government is moving its vile anti-farmer legislation in the House of Lords today. Legislation so vile, so evil that no former Labour Agriculture minister is prepared to stay around for the vote.

    There used to be a contract between agriculture and the wider public. No more as long as this most evil government since 1685 marches on to its own eventual unlamented end.

    This money will have to be recovered, probably from the pension pots of former Labour front benchers. It is malfeasance in public office.

    It is theft.

    🎻

    Abolishing a tax break that didn't even exist a few decades ago is theft and evil on a level not seen since 1685? Hyperbole much?

    Taxes should be low, consistent and equally applied to all. If the tax should be abolished, it should be abolished for all. If it should be levied, it should be levied on all, including farmers.
    Equally applied to all? Well now Indian workers coming here will have a tax advantage, thanks to Starmer.
    But no state pension entitlement.
    And they have to pay the NHS surcharge and their employers the visa sponsorship costs. I can’t imagine many Reform voters in Grimsby are going to lose out.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,934
    Nunu5 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
    This is the worst part:
    " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else."
    So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.


    Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
    Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,737

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
    This is the worst part:
    " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else."
    So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.


    Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
    It's basically a suicide note. At this point I believe Starmer is either a Russian plant or he's having a gay affair with Nigel
    I am utterly astonished at the stupidity of exempting Indian workers from NI for 3 years whilst imposing huge increases on UK workers and making Indian 20% cheaper to employ

    Badenoch was quick in attacking it as was the Lib Dems but Farage is just going to get a load more supporters

    I thought Sunak was poor politically but Starmer leaves him way behind with seemingly no political nous at all
    Either a) Starmer has finally taken leave of his senses or b) there is some complex nuance that means the saloon bar stool response to this is wrong...

    ...in which, they are still fucked 'cos no one does the detail.

    Staggering madness.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,335
    An Indian perspective, here:

    "An incredible development has taken place under the India-UK trade deal. The UK government has granted a major concession for Indian nationals working on work visas in the UK by virtue of which Indian nationals and their employers will not have to pay National Insurance Contributions (NIC) taxes. This makes Indian nationals an attractive hire compared to British and non British nationalities for almost any company, as they won't have to pay NIC on behalf of Indian nationals thereby benefit from cost reductions."

    https://x.com/OmerAzhar96/status/1919779806029262989


    You know what, I reckon British voters might not find this so "incredible", or maybe they will, but in a baaaaaad way
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,071

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
    This is the worst part:
    " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else."
    So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.


    Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
    It's basically a suicide note. At this point I believe Starmer is either a Russian plant or he's having a gay affair with Nigel
    I am utterly astonished at the stupidity of exempting Indian workers from NI for 3 years whilst imposing huge increases on UK workers and making Indian 20% cheaper to employ..
    Does the deal exempt employers from paying employer NI ?
    It's not made clear in the press release, but I doubt it.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,452

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Casino_Royale in Gregg’s

    It’s also broken windows theory in action. With every shoplift tolerated, every ticket easily dodged, every tag of graffiti met with a shrug, the social contract frays. The law abiding citizens ask themselves - why the fuck am I paying? Am I the sucker here?

    Ditto dodgy asylum seekers in 4 star hotels as honest people spend years trying to get the right to remain

    Meanwhile tax payers are quietly enraged, and very high taxpayers simply leave

    This is the frog boiling of an entire nation and it will end with a reform government and then something worse if we don’t change course

    I think it might have been Barty who called out your 4* hotel lie last week, citing Copthorne who were undergoing difficult trading prior to COVID and latterly asylum. Whoever it was specified the requirements for a hotel to be 4* and explained that all the 4*edness had been stripped out of Copthorne locations for our asylum seeking friends.

    Yet you are still allowed to post nonsense unchallenged. What next? Quoting Andrew Tate's X account as source material. Oh wait, apologies, that was Nigel Farage.
    Good luck in going to the voters while saying “it WAS a four star hotel when we took it over and gave it to asylum seekers, but we closed the gym and they only get laundry done twice a week, and free heath care, and immediate dental work, and you’re paying for it all, and you can’t use the hotel. So it’s really only like a weird 3 star with a private hospital. That you are paying for. So that these men can wander around your town freaking you out. Vote for more of this!”
    I'm not enthusiastic about my tax pounds going to a series of failing hotel groups. The boats need to be stopped for safety issues as much as for anything else. I am simply calling out your lies (sorry about the unparliamentary language, but I'm not sure what else to call it) to elicit a reaction from certain fragile on this subject posters
    It's not really a lie, though is it? These are 4-star hotels. The fact that some of the facilities are unavailable doesn't massively change this unless you're, er, whichever body is responsible for awarding stars to hotels.
    Yes it is. They are no longer regarded as 4* so you and Leon suggesting they are is a mechanism to make a political point. Or in other words it's inflammatory bollocks.
    This is a ridiculous hill to die on. It is simply a fact that asylum seekers are being housed in four star hotels.

    Look at this one. It's a modern four star hotel that was refurbished in 2022: https://www.marriott.com/en-gb/hotels/bhxwd-delta-hotels-warwick/overview/

    It's currently unavailable to book and closed to the public because it's being used to house male asylum seekers under a government contract.
    lol. The PB left is skewered and helpless. It is quite a spectacle
    So the question is when did it become a hostel for male asylum seekers im guessing 2022 but unless it was after July 2024 it’s not Labour’s fault merely Labour’s problem because the Tories were incompetent and did realise that if you don’t do the paperwork the paperwork has a habit of not disappearing
    Looks like it WAS after the election, as there are public reviews of the place til about 6 months ago

    Ouch, if so

    One other thing being missed here is that relatively affluent (often VERY affluent) PB-ers don't know how poor many Brits are, and how staying in a medium nice business hotel like a 4 star Marriot Delta, in the Warwickshire countryside, with rooms being cleaned and free food and free laundry - and this for weeks or months and it's all paid, is an absolute dream. A dream that will never happen for them

    And even if the gym is shut and the breakfast buffet is sketchy, it is still dreamlike. And then you have to tell these British voters that THEY are paying for this, but not for Brits, they are paying to house illegal migrants who only came over cause they didn't fancy France that much, and now these migrants wander around the town scaring people

    It is difficult to think of a policy better designed to drive an electorate, especially poorer native workers, to the populist right
    It’s actually right next to the M40, not exactly scenic Warwickshire countryside
    Again, another brilliant point for Labour's 2028 election campaign

    "Yes, you're paying to put illegal migrants in four star hotels with private healthcare, hotels which are then closed to you, but OFTEN thse hotels have good access to nearby motorways, so it's all great. Vote Labour for more of this!"

    Slap it on a poster
    It's 500m from the river Avon and 2k from Warwick Castle. I really think that counts a a premium location
    You’ve clearly never been to Warwick Castle
    Given the prices Merlin charges to cross the threshold then certainly some people like it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,352
    Rapid mental decline...

    @atrupar.com‬

    Trump: "Everyone says, 'When, when, when are you gonna sign deals?' We don't have to sign deals ... they have to sign deals with us. We don't care about their market ... they'll either say, 'Great,' and they'll start shopping, or they'll say, 'Not good.' That's okay. You don't have to shop."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lojcjqd5ik2j
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,934
    Leon said:

    An Indian perspective, here:

    "An incredible development has taken place under the India-UK trade deal. The UK government has granted a major concession for Indian nationals working on work visas in the UK by virtue of which Indian nationals and their employers will not have to pay National Insurance Contributions (NIC) taxes. This makes Indian nationals an attractive hire compared to British and non British nationalities for almost any company, as they won't have to pay NIC on behalf of Indian nationals thereby benefit from cost reductions."

    https://x.com/OmerAzhar96/status/1919779806029262989


    You know what, I reckon British voters might not find this so "incredible", or maybe they will, but in a baaaaaad way

    Yeah this is a poor idea. It's going to look terrible for the government and will make little difference in practice for Indian workers who are still subject to the £39k income threshold which is surely going to rise in the next year or so.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,002
    edited May 6
    What defines a 4-star hotel varies somewhat from country to country and grading system to grading system, but it's largely based on facilities and services provided to guests. UK ratings are done by the AA and detailed at https://business.ratedtrips.com/assessment/common-quality-standards/how-are-aa-hotels-rated

    Basically, it's not about the building or the rooms largely, it's about the other stuff. That other stuff is not provided to asylum seekers. The contract for housing asylum seekers is not a 4-star level of quality. Asylum seekers are sometimes housed in hotels that previously offered a 4-star service to guests. They are not housed in 4-star hotels. Anyone repeatedly claiming this is lying or stupid (or both). It is just radical right propaganda.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,737
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    An Indian perspective, here:

    "An incredible development has taken place under the India-UK trade deal. The UK government has granted a major concession for Indian nationals working on work visas in the UK by virtue of which Indian nationals and their employers will not have to pay National Insurance Contributions (NIC) taxes. This makes Indian nationals an attractive hire compared to British and non British nationalities for almost any company, as they won't have to pay NIC on behalf of Indian nationals thereby benefit from cost reductions."

    https://x.com/OmerAzhar96/status/1919779806029262989


    You know what, I reckon British voters might not find this so "incredible", or maybe they will, but in a baaaaaad way

    Yeah this is a poor idea. It's going to look terrible for the government and will make little difference in practice for Indian workers who are still subject to the £39k income threshold which is surely going to rise in the next year or so.
    As I say, detail...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,335
    MaxPB said:

    Nunu5 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
    This is the worst part:
    " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else."
    So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.


    Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
    Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
    The deal is so blatantly bad for Brits, others cannot believe it. Here is a tweet from a Pakistani

    "Can't Brits go to court against this obviously discriminatory rule?"

    https://x.com/afahim/status/1919784273713762522
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,934

    What defines a 4-star hotel varies somewhat from country to country and grading system to grading system, but it's largely based on facilities and services provided to guests. UK ratings are done by the AA and detailed at https://business.ratedtrips.com/assessment/common-quality-standards/how-are-aa-hotels-rated

    Basically, it's not about the building or the rooms largely, it's about the other stuff. That other stuff is not provided to asylum seekers. The contract for housing asylum seekers is not a 4-star level of quality. Asylum seekers are sometimes housed in hotels that previously offered a 4-star service to guests. They are not housed in 4-star hotels. Anyone repeatedly claiming this is lying or stupid (or both). It is just radical right propaganda.

    Please put this on a campaign leaflet, no a bus and drive it around the country.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,737
    Scott_xP said:

    Rapid mental decline...

    @atrupar.com‬

    Trump: "Everyone says, 'When, when, when are you gonna sign deals?' We don't have to sign deals ... they have to sign deals with us. We don't care about their market ... they'll either say, 'Great,' and they'll start shopping, or they'll say, 'Not good.' That's okay. You don't have to shop."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lojcjqd5ik2j

    The thing is, this was exactly how he was during the debate with Harris.

    And still they voted for him.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,340
    edited May 6
    I'm going to wait until we have a proper source on this but, if true.... 👀

    It's a shame really, because it's exactly the kind of work we do want the government to be doing. Another danger lurks - who agreed or suggested it first. It's three years in the making...
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,565
    We should abolish NI and merge it into income tax payable by all, reason number 4684361899 in an ongoing series.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,172
    This is so embarrassing for Carney to sit and listen to Trump anti Canada rant ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,071
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nunu5 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
    This is the worst part:
    " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else."
    So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.


    Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
    Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
    The deal is so blatantly bad for Brits, others cannot believe it. Here is a tweet from a Pakistani

    "Can't Brits go to court against this obviously discriminatory rule?"

    https://x.com/afahim/status/1919784273713762522
    It's not very clear in the press release.

    ..Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers gain from a three year National Insurance exemption, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
    The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and UK firms' workers transferred to India. The agreement means they will only pay social security contributions in their home country, rather than in both places.
    The UK already has similar "double contribution convention" agreements with 17 other countries including the EU, the US and South Korea, the government said...


    I want to see more clarity on this before getting excited.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,172
    Eabhal said:

    I'm going to wait until we have a proper source on this but, if true.... 👀

    It's a shame really, because it's exactly the kind of work we do want the government to be doing. Another danger lurks - who agreed or suggested it first. It's three years in the making...

    Do you mean the Indian trade deal debacle?
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,634
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    An Indian perspective, here:

    "An incredible development has taken place under the India-UK trade deal. The UK government has granted a major concession for Indian nationals working on work visas in the UK by virtue of which Indian nationals and their employers will not have to pay National Insurance Contributions (NIC) taxes. This makes Indian nationals an attractive hire compared to British and non British nationalities for almost any company, as they won't have to pay NIC on behalf of Indian nationals thereby benefit from cost reductions."

    https://x.com/OmerAzhar96/status/1919779806029262989


    You know what, I reckon British voters might not find this so "incredible", or maybe they will, but in a baaaaaad way

    Yeah this is a poor idea. It's going to look terrible for the government and will make little difference in practice for Indian workers who are still subject to the £39k income threshold which is surely going to rise in the next year or so.
    It is absolutely insane frankly.

    Labour has just comprehensively lost a local election where the electorate was very clear that immigration was their top priority and /this/ is the bullshit they come up with as their next policy announcement?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,934
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nunu5 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
    This is the worst part:
    " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else."
    So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.


    Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
    Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
    The deal is so blatantly bad for Brits, others cannot believe it. Here is a tweet from a Pakistani

    "Can't Brits go to court against this obviously discriminatory rule?"

    https://x.com/afahim/status/1919784273713762522
    Yes, if this does include employer's NI then it's going to become a PR disaster for the government while actually meaning basically nothing for Indian workers because most of them don't meet the skill barrier for a £39k per year job plus visa costs anyway and it's highly likely Labour will be pushing that skilled worker threshold up as well to bring legal immigration down.

    Massive, massive own goal IMO.
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 289
    MaxPB said:

    Immigration is the key to defeating Reform, Labour have got 3 years to get it under control and one year to show they have done it and show net emigration of low skill, low wage immigrants and reducing the number of "students" plus deporting illegal immigrants and asylum seekers.

    Three years to bring all of that down to zero and one year to bring it below zero so that people who arrive are less than people who are deported or have their low wage visa revoked.

    they just made it cheaper to hire Indian workers. Who are u kidding? and even if they bring it down in three years thats not good enough if they simply have a million net migrants for three years before that.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,634

    We should abolish NI and merge it into income tax payable by all, reason number 4684361899 in an ongoing series.

    If it all turns out to be 4D-chess by Starmer & Reeves to promise the moon to the Indians and then switch UK taxation policy to make the terms of the deal irrelevant it would be very funny, but I can’t see it happening sadly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,335

    What defines a 4-star hotel varies somewhat from country to country and grading system to grading system, but it's largely based on facilities and services provided to guests. UK ratings are done by the AA and detailed at https://business.ratedtrips.com/assessment/common-quality-standards/how-are-aa-hotels-rated

    Basically, it's not about the building or the rooms largely, it's about the other stuff. That other stuff is not provided to asylum seekers. The contract for housing asylum seekers is not a 4-star level of quality. Asylum seekers are sometimes housed in hotels that previously offered a 4-star service to guests. They are not housed in 4-star hotels. Anyone repeatedly claiming this is lying or stupid (or both). It is just radical right propaganda.

    Remember to hammer that home in the election. "They are just luxurious buildings with free food, free laundry, free private healthcare, free private dentistry, that YOU are paying for, but they are NOT four star hotels they just USED to be four star hotels very recently, don't listen to the radical right proaganda, and remember the Fascists won't tell you that often these places are quite near motorways, that's typical Nazi spin OK they are near rivers and castles"
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,308
    These double contribution conventions are common for temporary workers so you don’t pay contributions in two countries .

    It’s no big deal but of course Kemi useless is hacked off that Labour got the deal that her government couldn’t .
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,934
    Phil said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    An Indian perspective, here:

    "An incredible development has taken place under the India-UK trade deal. The UK government has granted a major concession for Indian nationals working on work visas in the UK by virtue of which Indian nationals and their employers will not have to pay National Insurance Contributions (NIC) taxes. This makes Indian nationals an attractive hire compared to British and non British nationalities for almost any company, as they won't have to pay NIC on behalf of Indian nationals thereby benefit from cost reductions."

    https://x.com/OmerAzhar96/status/1919779806029262989


    You know what, I reckon British voters might not find this so "incredible", or maybe they will, but in a baaaaaad way

    Yeah this is a poor idea. It's going to look terrible for the government and will make little difference in practice for Indian workers who are still subject to the £39k income threshold which is surely going to rise in the next year or so.
    It is absolutely insane frankly.

    Labour has just comprehensively lost a local election where the electorate was very clear that immigration was their top priority and /this/ is the bullshit they come up with as their next policy announcement?
    It might actually force Labour to put the threshold up to £50k to deter companies from taking advantage of this as that will raise the skill barrier. I could also see the visa charge go up to £2k per year or something as well, but overall it's a seriously stupid from Labour. They clearly haven't got any political sense.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,913
    MaxPB said:

    What defines a 4-star hotel varies somewhat from country to country and grading system to grading system, but it's largely based on facilities and services provided to guests. UK ratings are done by the AA and detailed at https://business.ratedtrips.com/assessment/common-quality-standards/how-are-aa-hotels-rated

    Basically, it's not about the building or the rooms largely, it's about the other stuff. That other stuff is not provided to asylum seekers. The contract for housing asylum seekers is not a 4-star level of quality. Asylum seekers are sometimes housed in hotels that previously offered a 4-star service to guests. They are not housed in 4-star hotels. Anyone repeatedly claiming this is lying or stupid (or both). It is just radical right propaganda.

    Please put this on a campaign leaflet, no a bus and drive it around the country.
    Especially the last two sentences. Vote winners for sure.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,340
    edited May 6

    Eabhal said:

    I'm going to wait until we have a proper source on this but, if true.... 👀

    It's a shame really, because it's exactly the kind of work we do want the government to be doing. Another danger lurks - who agreed or suggested it first. It's three years in the making...

    Do you mean the Indian trade deal debacle?
    We don't know it's a debacle yet. It might well be a cunning diplomatic delight of hand, but simultaneously dreadful domestic politics.

    Or the stuff we're being fed by Twitter is wrong.
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 289
    Fu** it. I'm done.

    I'm voting REFORM whenever the election comes. This National Insurance deal is the final straw. Idk. I dont care how pro putin Farage becomes, I dont care how loud the dog whistles become, I dont give a fuck. My government is making me compete with an infinity Indians.
    UNFAIRLY.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,002
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nunu5 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
    This is the worst part:
    " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else."
    So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.


    Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
    Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
    The deal is so blatantly bad for Brits, others cannot believe it. Here is a tweet from a Pakistani

    "Can't Brits go to court against this obviously discriminatory rule?"

    https://x.com/afahim/status/1919784273713762522
    It's not very clear in the press release.

    ..Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers gain from a three year National Insurance exemption, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
    The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and UK firms' workers transferred to India. The agreement means they will only pay social security contributions in their home country, rather than in both places.
    The UK already has similar "double contribution convention" agreements with 17 other countries including the EU, the US and South Korea, the government said...


    I want to see more clarity on this before getting excited.
    So, basically, it's nothing like some of the descriptions from the radical right trolls on social media.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,913
    Nunu3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Immigration is the key to defeating Reform, Labour have got 3 years to get it under control and one year to show they have done it and show net emigration of low skill, low wage immigrants and reducing the number of "students" plus deporting illegal immigrants and asylum seekers.

    Three years to bring all of that down to zero and one year to bring it below zero so that people who arrive are less than people who are deported or have their low wage visa revoked.

    they just made it cheaper to hire Indian workers. Who are u kidding? and even if they bring it down in three years thats not good enough if they simply have a million net migrants for three years before that.
    They can keep the care workers company that came under the Boriswave 😉
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,335
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nunu5 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
    This is the worst part:
    " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else."
    So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.


    Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
    Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
    The deal is so blatantly bad for Brits, others cannot believe it. Here is a tweet from a Pakistani

    "Can't Brits go to court against this obviously discriminatory rule?"

    https://x.com/afahim/status/1919784273713762522
    Yes, if this does include employer's NI then it's going to become a PR disaster for the government while actually meaning basically nothing for Indian workers because most of them don't meet the skill barrier for a £39k per year job plus visa costs anyway and it's highly likely Labour will be pushing that skilled worker threshold up as well to bring legal immigration down.

    Massive, massive own goal IMO.
    Let's presume the employer's NIC thing is true - it seems to be

    If you're, say, a big British tech company, who do you hire for three years, the Brit, or the equally qualified Indian who is now 15% cheaper? The Indian, of course. So Labour have just potentially fucked over a lot of white collar Brits

  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,634
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nunu5 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
    This is the worst part:
    " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else."
    So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.


    Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
    Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
    The deal is so blatantly bad for Brits, others cannot believe it. Here is a tweet from a Pakistani

    "Can't Brits go to court against this obviously discriminatory rule?"

    https://x.com/afahim/status/1919784273713762522
    Yes, if this does include employer's NI then it's going to become a PR disaster for the government while actually meaning basically nothing for Indian workers because most of them don't meet the skill barrier for a £39k per year job plus visa costs anyway and it's highly likely Labour will be pushing that skilled worker threshold up as well to bring legal immigration down.

    Massive, massive own goal IMO.
    NB. IIRC the justification for the lower NI is that Indians here on short term work visas have to pay the NHS surcharge (~£1k / year). If they’re only being cut the element of NI that notionally pays for the NHS & still have to pay the NHS surcharge then it’s not wildly unfair.

    If they don’t have to pay any NI at all, not even employers NI, then that’s a different story.

    The optics are still terrible of course - it’s the WFA all over again, only for immigration instead of pensioner income.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,071
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nunu5 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
    This is the worst part:
    " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else."
    So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.


    Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
    Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
    The deal is so blatantly bad for Brits, others cannot believe it. Here is a tweet from a Pakistani

    "Can't Brits go to court against this obviously discriminatory rule?"

    https://x.com/afahim/status/1919784273713762522
    Yes, if this does include employer's NI then it's going to become a PR disaster for the government while actually meaning basically nothing for Indian workers because most of them don't meet the skill barrier for a £39k per year job plus visa costs anyway and it's highly likely Labour will be pushing that skilled worker threshold up as well to bring legal immigration down.

    Massive, massive own goal IMO.
    It doesn't seem to have been denied.

    ..In the Commons Harriett Baldwin, the shadow trade minister, focused on the double contribution convention clauses in the UK-India trade deal. This means that Indian workers temporarily living in the UK will not have to pay national insurance contributions for three years – with British workers in India benefiting in the same way.

    Echoing the language used by her party leader, Kemi Badenoch (see 4.24pm), Baldwin said this meant “two-tier taxes” in the UK. She asked:

    Will it really be 20% cheaper for businesses in the UK to hire Indian workers than British workers? And would this convention really mean that an Indian restaurant chain in the UK could say, for example, pay no national insurance here, while the British pub next door pays full national insurance for their current share.
    In response, Douglas Alexander, the trade minister, said the double contribution convention was reciprocal, and that it would benefit “UK workers and their employers as the opportunity within India expands”. Indian workers covered by the convention would still have to pay the NHS health surcharge, he said. And he said the convention had to be seen as part of a wider deal that would “bring billions into the UK economy”...


    The NHS surcharge is around £1000 pa, so a fraction of any putative 20% on earnings.
    While this applies only to Indian companies "temporarily" seconding staff to the UK, it does not look good.

    Time to merge NI and income tax !
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,172

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nunu5 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
    This is the worst part:
    " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else."
    So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.


    Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
    Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
    The deal is so blatantly bad for Brits, others cannot believe it. Here is a tweet from a Pakistani

    "Can't Brits go to court against this obviously discriminatory rule?"

    https://x.com/afahim/status/1919784273713762522
    It's not very clear in the press release.

    ..Under the terms of the deal, some Indian and British workers gain from a three year National Insurance exemption, which the Indian government called "an unprecedented achievement".
    The exemption applies to the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK, and UK firms' workers transferred to India. The agreement means they will only pay social security contributions in their home country, rather than in both places.
    The UK already has similar "double contribution convention" agreements with 17 other countries including the EU, the US and South Korea, the government said...


    I want to see more clarity on this before getting excited.
    So, basically, it's nothing like some of the descriptions from the radical right trolls on social media.
    If you cannot see how toxic this is for the government then I am surprised
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,002
    edited May 6
    Nunu3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Immigration is the key to defeating Reform, Labour have got 3 years to get it under control and one year to show they have done it and show net emigration of low skill, low wage immigrants and reducing the number of "students" plus deporting illegal immigrants and asylum seekers.

    Three years to bring all of that down to zero and one year to bring it below zero so that people who arrive are less than people who are deported or have their low wage visa revoked.

    they just made it cheaper to hire Indian workers. Who are u kidding? and even if they bring it down in three years thats not good enough if they simply have a million net migrants for three years before that.
    They haven't made it cheaper to hire Indian workers. The rules apply to "the staff of Indian companies temporarily transferred to the UK". You can't just hire an Indian worker and save money.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,335
    edited May 6
    Phil said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nunu5 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The UK will lower tariffs on Indian clothes, footwear and food products. Ministers said this would give consumers access to cheaper products and more choice."

    Not exactly good news for British producers of clothes, footwear and food products.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/uk-and-india-agree-trade-deal-after-three-years-of-negotiations

    I'd like to see what crossover food we import from India has with food produced here. I don't think we have a lot of production for Indian spices or exotic fruits. In terms of clothes it's actually going to be a price cut for consumers as we already import a huge amount of clothing from India, realistically it's Bangladesh and Pakistan that lose out because now Indian imports won't have tariffs so UK supply chains will move to exclude those countries rather than the very high end producers of clothes and shoes we have here that won't be competing for the same money as Indian made imports.
    This is the worst part:
    " it was revealed British employers will not have to pay national insurance for Indian workers for three years, making it cheaper to employ Indians than anybody else."
    So it will be cheaper to employ Indian workers over British ones? This is a betrayal. No other government would put their own workers at a disadvantage like this.


    Our government loathe us. They absolutely despise us.They learnt nothing from REFORM gains.
    Are we sure it applies to Employer's NI? If it does then yes, it's actually suicidal by Labour. I can sort of see the argument for a mutual cancelling of employee contributions but this would give Indian workers a systematic advantage of domestic ones. While in practice I don't think it will amount to much because of the income thresholds, it just sends a completely terrible message and is absolutely awful optics for the government which is already struggling with immigration.
    The deal is so blatantly bad for Brits, others cannot believe it. Here is a tweet from a Pakistani

    "Can't Brits go to court against this obviously discriminatory rule?"

    https://x.com/afahim/status/1919784273713762522
    Yes, if this does include employer's NI then it's going to become a PR disaster for the government while actually meaning basically nothing for Indian workers because most of them don't meet the skill barrier for a £39k per year job plus visa costs anyway and it's highly likely Labour will be pushing that skilled worker threshold up as well to bring legal immigration down.

    Massive, massive own goal IMO.
    NB. IIRC the justification for the lower NI is that Indians here on short term work visas have to pay the NHS surcharge (~£1k / year). If they’re only being cut the element of NI that notionally pays for the NHS & still have to pay the NHS surcharge then it’s not wildly unfair.

    If they don’t have to pay any NI at all, not even employers NI, then that’s a different story.

    The optics are still terrible of course - it’s the WFA all over again, only for immigration instead of pensioner income.
    And right after an election won by Reform, very much on the issue of immigration

    Quite astounding. The only explanation is that Labour are either actual traitors, or simply dumber than rocks. That's it
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,172
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    I'm going to wait until we have a proper source on this but, if true.... 👀

    It's a shame really, because it's exactly the kind of work we do want the government to be doing. Another danger lurks - who agreed or suggested it first. It's three years in the making...

    Do you mean the Indian trade deal debacle?
    We don't know it's a debacle yet. It might well be a cunning diplomatic delight of hand, but simultaneously dreadful domestic politics.

    Or the stuff we're being fed by Twitter is wrong.
    nico67 said:

    These double contribution conventions are common for temporary workers so you don’t pay contributions in two countries .

    It’s no big deal but of course Kemi useless is hacked off that Labour got the deal that her government couldn’t .

    As I said to @bondegezou if you cannot see how toxic this is for Labour then I am surprised
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,450
    Taz said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Meanwhile this vile government is moving its vile anti-farmer legislation in the House of Lords today. Legislation so vile, so evil that no former Labour Agriculture minister is prepared to stay around for the vote.

    There used to be a contract between agriculture and the wider public. No more as long as this most evil government since 1685 marches on to its own eventual unlamented end.

    This money will have to be recovered, probably from the pension pots of former Labour front benchers. It is malfeasance in public office.

    It is theft.

    🎻

    Abolishing a tax break that didn't even exist a few decades ago is theft and evil on a level not seen since 1685? Hyperbole much?

    Taxes should be low, consistent and equally applied to all. If the tax should be abolished, it should be abolished for all. If it should be levied, it should be levied on all, including farmers.
    Equally applied to all? Well now Indian workers coming here will have a tax advantage, thanks to Starmer.
    But no state pension entitlement.
    Has that been confirmed, or can they just pay a lump sum to fill in this gap, as well as qualify on future NI contributions (assuming they are not all coming over as 64-year-olds)?

    As an aside, it does seem odd that the Indian nationalist Modi's top priority is facilitating an Indian brain drain.
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