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Like Stalin and Superman, Starmer is the man of steel – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,413
edited April 14 in General
Like Stalin and Superman, Starmer is the man of steel – politicalbetting.com

Majority of Britons support nationalising British SteelSupport: 57%Oppose: 9%yougov.co.uk/topics/polit…

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    Rats rejoice...

    A strike by bin workers in Birmingham is set to continue after the latest offer by the city council was "overwhelmingly" rejected.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,482
    2md
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,898
    Is he also rugby league player of the year?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,548
    I am in the 4%.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,042
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Rats rejoice...

    A strike by bin workers in Birmingham is set to continue after the latest offer by the city council was "overwhelmingly" rejected.

    It would be even worse if the weather was hot but it’s close to a public health emergency.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,548
    Red Bull are realising that I am right and that Max Verstappen is a massive bellend.

    Red Bull motorsport adviser Helmut Marko says he has "great concern" about Max Verstappen's future with the team in the context of their current struggles.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/articles/c9dj0elnexyo
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,394
    Trump's up and on social media.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,214
    67% of Reform voters firmly behind their party’s policy
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,116
    edited April 14
    European military expansionism, by YouTuber CaspianReport.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNBGSsZatbY (19mins)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,831
    edited April 14
    Interestingly Reform voters as well as Labour voters strongly support nationalising British Steel even more than the UK electorate overall, hence Tice and Farage have been so supportive of Starmer and Reynolds decision to move towards taking Scunthorpe steel into state hands while hammering net zero as the main divide with Starmer.

    LD voters a little less supportive and Conservative voters unsurprisingly most opposed but even then most Tory voters back it

  • TazTaz Posts: 17,408
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Rats rejoice...

    A strike by bin workers in Birmingham is set to continue after the latest offer by the city council was "overwhelmingly" rejected.

    That’s no way to talk about the binmen.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,252
    I'm in the 29%.

    But my major concern is simple: this is a chaotic, emergency action, and is in no way part of a strategy, or even a plan. Without an overlying wider industrial strategy, this action is much more likely to fail disastrously.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,687
    JosiasJessop said:

    I'm in the 29%.

    But my major concern is simple: this is a chaotic, emergency action, and is in no way part of a strategy, or even a plan. Without an overlying wider industrial strategy, this action is much more likely to fail disastrously.

    However the choice today is - find raw materials or within the next month the furnaces in Scunthorpe will be cooled to the point they cannot restart - and even if we were to want to close them down it should be our choice and not someone in China
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,394
    "Now, Democrats have an opportunity to allow the Republicans to edge closer to collapse as the party in full control of Washington — let’s please not become the story again and get in their way."

    James Carville: How to Turn Trump’s Economic Chaos Against Him
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/14/opinion/trump-tariffs-economy-carville.html
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    edited April 14
    The weird government response to when are you getting the raw materials for furnace continues.

    Big Ange, well we have paid for them. Are they coming today. We have paid for them. We are confident they will come in time.

    The media question are usual is stupid, they aren't buying the coal off Amazon Prime, but you would think they must have a timeline and that would shut the media up with the constant questioning.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,650
    Better owned by the UK Government than the Chinese Government.

  • TazTaz Posts: 17,408
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The weird government response to when are you getting the raw materials for furnace continues.

    Big Ange, well we have paid for them. Are they coming today. We have paid for them. We are confident they will come in time.

    The media question are usual is stupid, they aren't buying the coal off Amazon Prime, but you would think they must have a timeline and that would shut the media up with the constant questioning.

    Already paid for the goods but not got them ?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,650
    30% of Lib Dems want to know if the steel is vegan before forming a view.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,536
    It’s just occurred to me that polls should have a Don’t Care option, as well as Don’t Know. Coz I really don’t fucking care what happens to Scunthorpe steel

    Britain is so conprehensivelt fucked in so many near-irreversible ways this is like worrying about drizzle during a hurricane
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    edited April 14
    Taz said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The weird government response to when are you getting the raw materials for furnace continues.

    Big Ange, well we have paid for them. Are they coming today. We have paid for them. We are confident they will come in time.

    The media question are usual is stupid, they aren't buying the coal off Amazon Prime, but you would think they must have a timeline and that would shut the media up with the constant questioning.

    Already paid for the goods but not got them ?
    The "its commercially sensitive" excuse is also weird. You have bought a ship load of coal, we aren't asking for the blueprints to the Hinckley Point Nuclear Power Station.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,536
    On the upside, Astana looks quite cool at night


  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,116
    JosiasJessop said:

    I'm in the 29%.

    But my major concern is simple: this is a chaotic, emergency action, and is in no way part of a strategy, or even a plan. Without an overlying wider industrial strategy, this action is much more likely to fail disastrously.

    Unfortunately true :(
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    edited April 14
    Leon said:

    On the upside, Astana looks quite cool at night

    It amazing what $80bn a year of oil exports can build...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,226
    rottenborough said:

    "Now, Democrats have an opportunity to allow the Republicans to edge closer to collapse as the party in full control of Washington — let’s please not become the story again and get in their way."

    James Carville: How to Turn Trump’s Economic Chaos Against Him
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/14/opinion/trump-tariffs-economy-carville.html

    The Trump tariffs have not done anything (positive) for his approval rating:


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,420
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Taz said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The weird government response to when are you getting the raw materials for furnace continues.

    Big Ange, well we have paid for them. Are they coming today. We have paid for them. We are confident they will come in time.

    The media question are usual is stupid, they aren't buying the coal off Amazon Prime, but you would think they must have a timeline and that would shut the media up with the constant questioning.

    Already paid for the goods but not got them ?
    The "its commercially sensitive" excuse is also weird. You have bought a ship load of coal, we aren't asking for the blueprints to the Hinckley Point Nuclear Power Station.
    It's a boilerplate response to any enquiry relating to contacts with commercial companies. Though given the taxpayer is footing the bill, it's generally a load of unjustifiable bollocks designed to deflect substantive questions.

    IMO there should be a presumption against "commercial confidentiality" covering any government contract, and a requirement to demonstrate good reasons for going against it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,420
    Leon said:

    It’s just occurred to me that polls should have a Don’t Care option, as well as Don’t Know. Coz I really don’t fucking care what happens to Scunthorpe steel

    Britain is so conprehensivelt fucked in so many near-irreversible ways this is like worrying about drizzle during a hurricane

    I imagine a country governed by whim of Leon would not be markedly preferable to one governed by Trump.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,065
    viewcode said:

    SandyRentool said:

    30% of Lib Dems want to know if the steel is vegan before forming a view.

    I can assure you that molten steel contains no animal or animal-derived products. At least not for long.
    Though animal derived charcoal has been used for some armour hardening processes, historically.

    I know - weird. But this was part of stuff like packing the face of the plate in it and putting in an oven for *months*. All a bit “that works and we aren’t changing it.”
  • eekeek Posts: 29,687
    edited April 14
    Nigelb said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Taz said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The weird government response to when are you getting the raw materials for furnace continues.

    Big Ange, well we have paid for them. Are they coming today. We have paid for them. We are confident they will come in time.

    The media question are usual is stupid, they aren't buying the coal off Amazon Prime, but you would think they must have a timeline and that would shut the media up with the constant questioning.

    Already paid for the goods but not got them ?
    The "its commercially sensitive" excuse is also weird. You have bought a ship load of coal, we aren't asking for the blueprints to the Hinckley Point Nuclear Power Station.
    It's a boilerplate response to any enquiry relating to contacts with commercial companies. Though given the taxpayer is footing the bill, it's generally a load of unjustifiable bollocks designed to deflect substantive questions.

    IMO there should be a presumption against "commercial confidentiality" covering any government contract, and a requirement to demonstrate good reasons for going against it.
    The problem here is that someone has probably bought all the coke from British Steel and has charged a significant premium to sell it back to the Government,
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,420
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Taz said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The weird government response to when are you getting the raw materials for furnace continues.

    Big Ange, well we have paid for them. Are they coming today. We have paid for them. We are confident they will come in time.

    The media question are usual is stupid, they aren't buying the coal off Amazon Prime, but you would think they must have a timeline and that would shut the media up with the constant questioning.

    Already paid for the goods but not got them ?
    The "its commercially sensitive" excuse is also weird. You have bought a ship load of coal, we aren't asking for the blueprints to the Hinckley Point Nuclear Power Station.
    It's a boilerplate response to any enquiry relating to contacts with commercial companies. Though given the taxpayer is footing the bill, it's generally a load of unjustifiable bollocks designed to deflect substantive questions.

    IMO there should be a presumption against "commercial confidentiality" covering any government contract, and a requirement to demonstrate good reasons for going against it.
    The problem here is that someone has probably bought all the coke from British Steel and has charged a significant premium to sell it to the Government
    So what ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,831
    rcs1000 said:

    rottenborough said:

    "Now, Democrats have an opportunity to allow the Republicans to edge closer to collapse as the party in full control of Washington — let’s please not become the story again and get in their way."

    James Carville: How to Turn Trump’s Economic Chaos Against Him
    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/14/opinion/trump-tariffs-economy-carville.html

    The Trump tariffs have not done anything (positive) for his approval rating:


    Yes but his 46% largely MAGA core are still loyally behind them and of course Trump cannot run again for POTUS so can leave Vance to try and win back the swing voters who are not happy with the tariffs
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,420
    Warner Bros. asked Trump's orbit how to improve their relationship. Trump's people pointed to the $40 million Bezos paid for Melania's doc and suggested giving Don Jr a Discovery hunting show and more pro-Trump voices on CNN
    https://x.com/nick_field90/status/1911782724022436225
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,536
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    It’s just occurred to me that polls should have a Don’t Care option, as well as Don’t Know. Coz I really don’t fucking care what happens to Scunthorpe steel

    Britain is so conprehensivelt fucked in so many near-irreversible ways this is like worrying about drizzle during a hurricane

    I imagine a country governed by whim of Leon would not be markedly preferable to one governed by Trump.
    Almost certainly worse. Entertaining tho
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,065
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Taz said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The weird government response to when are you getting the raw materials for furnace continues.

    Big Ange, well we have paid for them. Are they coming today. We have paid for them. We are confident they will come in time.

    The media question are usual is stupid, they aren't buying the coal off Amazon Prime, but you would think they must have a timeline and that would shut the media up with the constant questioning.

    Already paid for the goods but not got them ?
    The "its commercially sensitive" excuse is also weird. You have bought a ship load of coal, we aren't asking for the blueprints to the Hinckley Point Nuclear Power Station.
    The company that was running the plant has errrrr…. connections to the Chinese government. Who are already upset at what has happened.

    Sneeze and you’ll have another trade war.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,332
    edited April 14
    eek said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    I'm in the 29%.

    But my major concern is simple: this is a chaotic, emergency action, and is in no way part of a strategy, or even a plan. Without an overlying wider industrial strategy, this action is much more likely to fail disastrously.

    However the choice today is - find raw materials or within the next month the furnaces in Scunthorpe will be cooled to the point they cannot restart - and even if we were to want to close them down it should be our choice and not someone in China
    I know next to nothing on this. Can you explain why the furnaces can’t be restarted once cooled?
  • eekeek Posts: 29,687
    RobD said:

    eek said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    I'm in the 29%.

    But my major concern is simple: this is a chaotic, emergency action, and is in no way part of a strategy, or even a plan. Without an overlying wider industrial strategy, this action is much more likely to fail disastrously.

    However the choice today is - find raw materials or within the next month the furnaces in Scunthorpe will be cooled to the point they cannot restart - and even if we were to want to close them down it should be our choice and not someone in China
    I know next to nothing on this. Can you explain why the furnaces can’t be restarted once cooled?
    There is a risk of collapse as they cool and a further risk of collapse as they heat up again / basically the temperature needs to be kept relatively constant
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,420
    Malmesbury said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Taz said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The weird government response to when are you getting the raw materials for furnace continues.

    Big Ange, well we have paid for them. Are they coming today. We have paid for them. We are confident they will come in time.

    The media question are usual is stupid, they aren't buying the coal off Amazon Prime, but you would think they must have a timeline and that would shut the media up with the constant questioning.

    Already paid for the goods but not got them ?
    The "its commercially sensitive" excuse is also weird. You have bought a ship load of coal, we aren't asking for the blueprints to the Hinckley Point Nuclear Power Station.
    The company that was running the plant has errrrr…. connections to the Chinese government. Who are already upset at what has happened.

    Sneeze and you’ll have another trade war.
    Rubbish.
    We've already salved their fragile ego by making it clear we're not accusing them of deliberately sabotaging the prospects of salvaging the plant. Which is overly generous, IMO.

    Pretending that the company's actions haven't cost us a small fortune isn't something we need to. That's more to save our government's face.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,420
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    It’s just occurred to me that polls should have a Don’t Care option, as well as Don’t Know. Coz I really don’t fucking care what happens to Scunthorpe steel

    Britain is so conprehensivelt fucked in so many near-irreversible ways this is like worrying about drizzle during a hurricane

    I imagine a country governed by whim of Leon would not be markedly preferable to one governed by Trump.
    Almost certainly worse. Entertaining tho
    That's very much the orange one's view too.
    Notably something that connects, you, Trump, and DuraAce.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,420
    The European Commission is issuing burner phones and basic laptops to some US-bound staff to avoid the risk of espionage — a measure traditionally reserved for trips to China
    https://x.com/FT/status/1911754016926605800

    Possibly also to protect them from detention by ICE ?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,652
    Leon said:

    It’s just occurred to me that polls should have a Don’t Care option, as well as Don’t Know. Coz I really don’t fucking care what happens to Scunthorpe steel

    Britain is so conprehensivelt fucked in so many near-irreversible ways this is like worrying about drizzle during a hurricane

    It matters because if we can at least keep the ruddy thing burning, it saves a lot of trouble when we get a Government in that will un-f*** things.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,763
    Malmesbury said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Taz said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The weird government response to when are you getting the raw materials for furnace continues.

    Big Ange, well we have paid for them. Are they coming today. We have paid for them. We are confident they will come in time.

    The media question are usual is stupid, they aren't buying the coal off Amazon Prime, but you would think they must have a timeline and that would shut the media up with the constant questioning.

    Already paid for the goods but not got them ?
    The "its commercially sensitive" excuse is also weird. You have bought a ship load of coal, we aren't asking for the blueprints to the Hinckley Point Nuclear Power Station.
    The company that was running the plant has errrrr…. connections to the Chinese government. Who are already upset at what has happened.

    Sneeze and you’ll have another trade war.
    Yes, what's happening to China with the USA is but a pinprick compared with events in Scunthorpe.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,226
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    It’s just occurred to me that polls should have a Don’t Care option, as well as Don’t Know. Coz I really don’t fucking care what happens to Scunthorpe steel

    Britain is so conprehensivelt fucked in so many near-irreversible ways this is like worrying about drizzle during a hurricane

    I imagine a country governed by whim of Leon would not be markedly preferable to one governed by Trump.
    I think it's unlikely the trains would even run on time.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,472
    Leon said:

    It’s just occurred to me that polls should have a Don’t Care option, as well as Don’t Know. Coz I really don’t fucking care what happens to Scunthorpe steel

    Britain is so conprehensivelt fucked in so many near-irreversible ways this is like worrying about drizzle during a hurricane

    It just occurred to you? Really, it has only just occurred to you? What happened to this massive IQ and the ability to think outside of the box?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,214
    THE leader of Redditch Borough Council Joe Baker has been suspended by the Labour Party and has stepped down as leader.

    https://www.redditchadvertiser.co.uk/news/25087798.redditch-borough-council-leader-joe-baker-steps/
  • eekeek Posts: 29,687
    Nigelb said:

    The European Commission is issuing burner phones and basic laptops to some US-bound staff to avoid the risk of espionage — a measure traditionally reserved for trips to China
    https://x.com/FT/status/1911754016926605800

    Possibly also to protect them from detention by ICE ?

    Bae have always done that when visiting the USA
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,472
    RobD said:

    eek said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    I'm in the 29%.

    But my major concern is simple: this is a chaotic, emergency action, and is in no way part of a strategy, or even a plan. Without an overlying wider industrial strategy, this action is much more likely to fail disastrously.

    However the choice today is - find raw materials or within the next month the furnaces in Scunthorpe will be cooled to the point they cannot restart - and even if we were to want to close them down it should be our choice and not someone in China
    I know next to nothing on this. Can you explain why the furnaces can’t be restarted once cooled?
    Oh oh they answered that on the Today programme this morning, although I was only half listening. Something about tons of molton iron that stays in the furnace and then when it solidifies or maybe when reheated again cracks the furnace. Wish I had listened properly now.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    kjh said:

    RobD said:

    eek said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    I'm in the 29%.

    But my major concern is simple: this is a chaotic, emergency action, and is in no way part of a strategy, or even a plan. Without an overlying wider industrial strategy, this action is much more likely to fail disastrously.

    However the choice today is - find raw materials or within the next month the furnaces in Scunthorpe will be cooled to the point they cannot restart - and even if we were to want to close them down it should be our choice and not someone in China
    I know next to nothing on this. Can you explain why the furnaces can’t be restarted once cooled?
    Oh oh they answered that on the Today programme this morning, although I was only half listening. Something about tons of molton iron that stays in the furnace and then when it solidifies or maybe when reheated again cracks the furnace. Wish I had listened properly now.
    I will remember not to sit next to you when we take the test on this....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,536
    edited April 14
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    On the upside, Astana looks quite cool at night

    It amazing what $80bn a year of oil exports can build...
    I’m still not entirely sure why Putin didn’t invade Kazakhstan, instead of Uke

    Far easier to swoop in. Population easily as pro Russian. Huge oil reserves. No NATO nearby

    I guess the emotional pull of Kyiv was too much, plus faulty intelligence persuading him it would be easy
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    A new coal mine in Cumbria would not have helped British Steel, No 10 said.

    The Government confirmed earlier this month that West Cumbria Mining had withdrawn its application for a site near Whitehaven after years of legal and regulatory setbacks.

    The mine would have produced high quality metallurgical coal used in the steel industry which British Steel currently sources from abroad.

    But Downing Street dismissed the suggestion that the mine could have benefited British Steel.

    “The proposed coal mine in Cumbria wouldn’t have helped at Scunthorpe,” the Prime Minister’s official spokesman said.

    “My understanding is that British Steel had previously expressed concerns around the sulphur content of that coal… I think 85 per cent of that coal was due to be exported and obviously as you know our clean power mission will produce the clean energy we need at home allowing us to boost our energy independence to protect consumers and businesses from future price shocks and work towards bringing down bills.”

    ---

    So is the high sulphur content mean its no good for steel production or just that it wouldn't meet Ed Miliband agenda?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,065
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    A new coal mine in Cumbria would not have helped British Steel, No 10 said.

    The Government confirmed earlier this month that West Cumbria Mining had withdrawn its application for a site near Whitehaven after years of legal and regulatory setbacks.

    The mine would have produced high quality metallurgical coal used in the steel industry which British Steel currently sources from abroad.

    But Downing Street dismissed the suggestion that the mine could have benefited British Steel.

    “The proposed coal mine in Cumbria wouldn’t have helped at Scunthorpe,” the Prime Minister’s official spokesman said.

    “My understanding is that British Steel had previously expressed concerns around the sulphur content of that coal… I think 85 per cent of that coal was due to be exported and obviously as you know our clean power mission will produce the clean energy we need at home allowing us to boost our energy independence to protect consumers and businesses from future price shocks and work towards bringing down bills.”

    ---

    So is the high sulphur content mean its no good for steel production or just that it wouldn't meet Ed Miliband agenda?

    Or that the sulphur content was wrong for shutting down the steelworks?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,420
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    A new coal mine in Cumbria would not have helped British Steel, No 10 said.

    The Government confirmed earlier this month that West Cumbria Mining had withdrawn its application for a site near Whitehaven after years of legal and regulatory setbacks.

    The mine would have produced high quality metallurgical coal used in the steel industry which British Steel currently sources from abroad.

    But Downing Street dismissed the suggestion that the mine could have benefited British Steel.

    “The proposed coal mine in Cumbria wouldn’t have helped at Scunthorpe,” the Prime Minister’s official spokesman said.

    “My understanding is that British Steel had previously expressed concerns around the sulphur content of that coal… I think 85 per cent of that coal was due to be exported and obviously as you know our clean power mission will produce the clean energy we need at home allowing us to boost our energy independence to protect consumers and businesses from future price shocks and work towards bringing down bills.”

    ---

    So is the high sulphur content mean its no good for steel production or just that it wouldn't meet Ed Miliband agenda?

    "My understanding is that... had expressed concerns.." doesn't actually say that its sulphur content is too high.
    AFAIKS, no one has established whether it is or not.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,506
    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    On the upside, Astana looks quite cool at night

    It amazing what $80bn a year of oil exports can build...
    I’m still not entirely sure why Putin didn’t invade Kazakhstan, instead of Uke

    Far easier to swoop in. Population easily as pro Russian. Huge oil reserves. No NATO nearby

    I guess the emotional pull of Kyiv was too much, plus faulty intelligence persuading him it would be easy
    Kazakhstan wasn’t going to join NATO. Or likely to.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    Nigelb said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    A new coal mine in Cumbria would not have helped British Steel, No 10 said.

    The Government confirmed earlier this month that West Cumbria Mining had withdrawn its application for a site near Whitehaven after years of legal and regulatory setbacks.

    The mine would have produced high quality metallurgical coal used in the steel industry which British Steel currently sources from abroad.

    But Downing Street dismissed the suggestion that the mine could have benefited British Steel.

    “The proposed coal mine in Cumbria wouldn’t have helped at Scunthorpe,” the Prime Minister’s official spokesman said.

    “My understanding is that British Steel had previously expressed concerns around the sulphur content of that coal… I think 85 per cent of that coal was due to be exported and obviously as you know our clean power mission will produce the clean energy we need at home allowing us to boost our energy independence to protect consumers and businesses from future price shocks and work towards bringing down bills.”

    ---

    So is the high sulphur content mean its no good for steel production or just that it wouldn't meet Ed Miliband agenda?

    "My understanding is that... had expressed concerns.." doesn't actually say that its sulphur content is too high.
    AFAIKS, no one has established whether it is or not.
    Classic political speak....the best of my recollection....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,536
    Nigelb said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    A new coal mine in Cumbria would not have helped British Steel, No 10 said.

    The Government confirmed earlier this month that West Cumbria Mining had withdrawn its application for a site near Whitehaven after years of legal and regulatory setbacks.

    The mine would have produced high quality metallurgical coal used in the steel industry which British Steel currently sources from abroad.

    But Downing Street dismissed the suggestion that the mine could have benefited British Steel.

    “The proposed coal mine in Cumbria wouldn’t have helped at Scunthorpe,” the Prime Minister’s official spokesman said.

    “My understanding is that British Steel had previously expressed concerns around the sulphur content of that coal… I think 85 per cent of that coal was due to be exported and obviously as you know our clean power mission will produce the clean energy we need at home allowing us to boost our energy independence to protect consumers and businesses from future price shocks and work towards bringing down bills.”

    ---

    So is the high sulphur content mean its no good for steel production or just that it wouldn't meet Ed Miliband agenda?

    "My understanding is that... had expressed concerns.." doesn't actually say that its sulphur content is too high.
    AFAIKS, no one has established whether it is or not.
    Yes, it’s evasive pifflewank and probably an outright falsehood. They’re embarrassed at such a howling low-IQ error

    It’s like we are governed by the staff room of a middling comprehensive school. And I speak as someone who went to a middling comprehensive school

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,410
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    On the upside, Astana looks quite cool at night

    It amazing what $80bn a year of oil exports can build...
    ...and how tempting it must look to Putin.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,410
    OldKingCole said:

    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    On the upside, Astana looks quite cool at night

    It amazing what $80bn a year of oil exports can build...
    I’m still not entirely sure why Putin didn’t invade Kazakhstan, instead of Uke

    Far easier to swoop in. Population easily as pro Russian. Huge oil reserves. No NATO nearby

    I guess the emotional pull of Kyiv was too much, plus faulty intelligence persuading him it would be easy
    Kazakhstan wasn’t going to join NATO. Or likely to.
    Neither were Finland and Sweden.

    Until Putin made them.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,252
    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    On the upside, Astana looks quite cool at night

    It amazing what $80bn a year of oil exports can build...
    I’m still not entirely sure why Putin didn’t invade Kazakhstan, instead of Uke

    Far easier to swoop in. Population easily as pro Russian. Huge oil reserves. No NATO nearby

    I guess the emotional pull of Kyiv was too much, plus faulty intelligence persuading him it would be easy
    That's simple. Kazakhstan has a leader and regime who are - mostly - Russia friendly, and both are members of the CTSO. Russia's main cosmodrome is in the country. Why invade when you already wield massive power over them?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,262
    The resident population of London is about 9.5 million, but has anyone ever tried to estimate how many people are usually in Greater London on, say, a Wednesday afternoon on a normal working day (excluding holiday times like Easter, Christmas, etc)? This number would include people who work in London but don't live there, and also tourists.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,536
    edited April 14
    OldKingCole said:

    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    On the upside, Astana looks quite cool at night

    It amazing what $80bn a year of oil exports can build...
    I’m still not entirely sure why Putin didn’t invade Kazakhstan, instead of Uke

    Far easier to swoop in. Population easily as pro Russian. Huge oil reserves. No NATO nearby

    I guess the emotional pull of Kyiv was too much, plus faulty intelligence persuading him it would be easy
    Kazakhstan wasn’t going to join NATO. Or likely to.
    Sure, but Kazakhstan is 30m fertile people. Young. And scattered over a vast oil-rich country making it easy to dominate and prime for exploitation. I doubt the Kazakhs would have resisted much, and would the West have tried to arm them? Unlikely. Ditto sanctions, would Germany have sanctioned Putin for retaking Astana? Hmm

    But the historical allure of Kyivan Rus was too much for Vladimir - geopolitical jailbait



  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,652
    Nigelb said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    A new coal mine in Cumbria would not have helped British Steel, No 10 said.

    The Government confirmed earlier this month that West Cumbria Mining had withdrawn its application for a site near Whitehaven after years of legal and regulatory setbacks.

    The mine would have produced high quality metallurgical coal used in the steel industry which British Steel currently sources from abroad.

    But Downing Street dismissed the suggestion that the mine could have benefited British Steel.

    “The proposed coal mine in Cumbria wouldn’t have helped at Scunthorpe,” the Prime Minister’s official spokesman said.

    “My understanding is that British Steel had previously expressed concerns around the sulphur content of that coal… I think 85 per cent of that coal was due to be exported and obviously as you know our clean power mission will produce the clean energy we need at home allowing us to boost our energy independence to protect consumers and businesses from future price shocks and work towards bringing down bills.”

    ---

    So is the high sulphur content mean its no good for steel production or just that it wouldn't meet Ed Miliband agenda?

    "My understanding is that... had expressed concerns.." doesn't actually say that its sulphur content is too high.
    AFAIKS, no one has established whether it is or not.
    Smells like bullshit to me.

    And let's not forget that any 'concerns' expressed by British Steel were the concerns of their Chinese owners.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    I see Trump is doing his best to appear like a Putin apologist.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,262
    Leon's favourite subject.

    "Mary Harrington
    @moveincircles
    "How much of the AI we see today is literally just underpaid Filipinos?" "

    https://x.com/moveincircles/status/1911729954506571981
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,536
    JosiasJessop said:

    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    On the upside, Astana looks quite cool at night

    It amazing what $80bn a year of oil exports can build...
    I’m still not entirely sure why Putin didn’t invade Kazakhstan, instead of Uke

    Far easier to swoop in. Population easily as pro Russian. Huge oil reserves. No NATO nearby

    I guess the emotional pull of Kyiv was too much, plus faulty intelligence persuading him it would be easy
    That's simple. Kazakhstan has a leader and regime who are - mostly - Russia friendly, and both are members of the CTSO. Russia's main cosmodrome is in the country. Why invade when you already wield massive power over them?
    Because it temporarily solves his demographic problem with a boost of 30m people who are keen on having more babies. Sure they are Muslim but they are VERY secular Muslim, if Muslim at all, and 30% of them are ethnic Russian and very many speak Russian

    Also it expands Great Russia once again, so it regains its old imperial outline, taking it to the Afghan border, and Vlad seems very keen on all that stuff

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,073
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    It’s just occurred to me that polls should have a Don’t Care option, as well as Don’t Know. Coz I really don’t fucking care what happens to Scunthorpe steel

    Britain is so conprehensivelt fucked in so many near-irreversible ways this is like worrying about drizzle during a hurricane

    It just occurred to you? Really, it has only just occurred to you? What happened to this massive IQ and the ability to think outside of the box?
    Silly twat can't even see the box.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon's favourite subject.

    "Mary Harrington
    @moveincircles
    "How much of the AI we see today is literally just underpaid Filipinos?" "

    https://x.com/moveincircles/status/1911729954506571981

    Well Filipinos are writing 80% of my code and rewriting documents for me, they are bloody good at it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,548
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I see Trump is doing his best to appear like a Putin apologist.

    ***SHOCKED FACE***
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I see Trump is doing his best to appear like a Putin apologist.

    ***SHOCKED FACE***
    I know, its so out of character.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,561
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Nigelb said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    A new coal mine in Cumbria would not have helped British Steel, No 10 said.

    The Government confirmed earlier this month that West Cumbria Mining had withdrawn its application for a site near Whitehaven after years of legal and regulatory setbacks.

    The mine would have produced high quality metallurgical coal used in the steel industry which British Steel currently sources from abroad.

    But Downing Street dismissed the suggestion that the mine could have benefited British Steel.

    “The proposed coal mine in Cumbria wouldn’t have helped at Scunthorpe,” the Prime Minister’s official spokesman said.

    “My understanding is that British Steel had previously expressed concerns around the sulphur content of that coal… I think 85 per cent of that coal was due to be exported and obviously as you know our clean power mission will produce the clean energy we need at home allowing us to boost our energy independence to protect consumers and businesses from future price shocks and work towards bringing down bills.”

    ---

    So is the high sulphur content mean its no good for steel production or just that it wouldn't meet Ed Miliband agenda?

    "My understanding is that... had expressed concerns.." doesn't actually say that its sulphur content is too high.
    AFAIKS, no one has established whether it is or not.
    Smells like bullshit to me.

    And let's not forget that any 'concerns' expressed by British Steel were the concerns of their Chinese owners.
    I went down this particular rabbit hole earlier on & found the original planning application report from the developers & their advisors.

    Short version: yes, the coal is too high in sulphur. No, this doesn’t necessarily matter because it’s completely normal for steel plants to mix coal from different sources to obtain the ideal mix & the Cumbrian coal is desirable for other reasons which partially (but not completely) compensate for the relatively high sulphur.

    See section 2: Competitive Analysis in this document: https://cumbria.gov.uk/elibrary/Content/Internet/538/28159/44426115622.pdf

    The factoid that “the coal is useless because it’s too high in sulphur” appears to have floated free of any connection with the actual references that discuss the application in detail & become a meme quoted endlessly by anyone opposed to the mine opening.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,536
    He’s right

    Elon Musk: The right metric for intelligence is the ability to predict the future.

    “The right metric for intelligence is probably the ability to predict the future. You're as intelligent as you can predict the future well.

    Because if somebody claims this person or this AI is very intelligent, how good are its predictions? If its predictions are not very good, it's not that smart.

    To predict the future, you have to think critically about the past and constantly try to be less wrong.”

    Lancaster, Pennsylvania, October 26, 2024
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,536
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon's favourite subject.

    "Mary Harrington
    @moveincircles
    "How much of the AI we see today is literally just underpaid Filipinos?" "

    https://x.com/moveincircles/status/1911729954506571981

    Well Filipinos are writing 80% of my code and rewriting documents for me, they are bloody good at it.
    Yep, those Filipinos are also brilliant at writing poetry now. Incredible people. The university of Manila must be churning them out
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,548
    Leon said:

    He’s right

    Elon Musk: The right metric for intelligence is the ability to predict the future.

    “The right metric for intelligence is probably the ability to predict the future. You're as intelligent as you can predict the future well.

    Because if somebody claims this person or this AI is very intelligent, how good are its predictions? If its predictions are not very good, it's not that smart.

    To predict the future, you have to think critically about the past and constantly try to be less wrong.”

    Lancaster, Pennsylvania, October 26, 2024

    I wonder what he makes of the intelligence of the people who said in the summer of 2022 that Liz Truss as PM would surprise on the upside?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,652
    edited April 14
    Phil said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Nigelb said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    A new coal mine in Cumbria would not have helped British Steel, No 10 said.

    The Government confirmed earlier this month that West Cumbria Mining had withdrawn its application for a site near Whitehaven after years of legal and regulatory setbacks.

    The mine would have produced high quality metallurgical coal used in the steel industry which British Steel currently sources from abroad.

    But Downing Street dismissed the suggestion that the mine could have benefited British Steel.

    “The proposed coal mine in Cumbria wouldn’t have helped at Scunthorpe,” the Prime Minister’s official spokesman said.

    “My understanding is that British Steel had previously expressed concerns around the sulphur content of that coal… I think 85 per cent of that coal was due to be exported and obviously as you know our clean power mission will produce the clean energy we need at home allowing us to boost our energy independence to protect consumers and businesses from future price shocks and work towards bringing down bills.”

    ---

    So is the high sulphur content mean its no good for steel production or just that it wouldn't meet Ed Miliband agenda?

    "My understanding is that... had expressed concerns.." doesn't actually say that its sulphur content is too high.
    AFAIKS, no one has established whether it is or not.
    Smells like bullshit to me.

    And let's not forget that any 'concerns' expressed by British Steel were the concerns of their Chinese owners.
    I went down this particular rabbit hole earlier on & found the original planning application report from the developers & their advisors.

    Short version: yes, the coal is too high in sulphur. No, this doesn’t necessarily matter because it’s completely normal for steel plants to mix coal from different sources to obtain the ideal mix & the Cumbrian coal is desirable for other reasons which partially (but not completely) compensate for the relatively high sulphur.

    See section 2: Competitive Analysis in this document: https://cumbria.gov.uk/elibrary/Content/Internet/538/28159/44426115622.pdf

    The factoid that “the coal is useless because it’s too high in sulphur” appears to have floated free of any connection with the actual references that discuss the application in detail & become a meme quoted endlessly by anyone opposed to the mine opening.
    Good find. This bit seems important:

    One of the key features of the revised design is the ability to vary the product quality to meet specific quality criteria, principally to ensure a product which always meets defined targets in relation to sulphur and ash. The multiple stages of treatment allow fine control, with real-time inline sampling within the plant to ensure live control of the process and end product.

    7.11. The product produced by the plant will have a strict maximum limit on sulphur content of 1.6%. The target for the majority of the plant output (more than 80% of product) is for a sulphur content below 1.4%.

    Appendix 3 sets out the Woodhouse Colliery Main Band coal product detailed specification sheet.

    7.12. The main variability which would be controlled by WCM is the overall product yield (proportion of clean product produced from a given unit of input raw coal) and the ash content. With these specific sulphur limits, the ash content would be less than 5% for all of the metallurgical coal product.


    Hardly surprising Labour is being mealy-mouthed about it if it's dealt with in the design.

    Kemi could seriously draw blood over this if she tells Starmer to get digging.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,031
    Leon said:

    He’s right

    Elon Musk: The right metric for intelligence is the ability to predict the future.

    What.Three.Words is going to take over the World!

    Oh, wait...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,065
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I see Trump is doing his best to appear like a Putin apologist.

    ***SHOCKED FACE***
    No. You are supposed to say


  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    edited April 14
    I am sure our excellent media class have done all the background reading on the mine situation...and not just taking a government talking head at their word.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    edited April 14
    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon's favourite subject.

    "Mary Harrington
    @moveincircles
    "How much of the AI we see today is literally just underpaid Filipinos?" "

    https://x.com/moveincircles/status/1911729954506571981

    Well Filipinos are writing 80% of my code and rewriting documents for me, they are bloody good at it.
    Yep, those Filipinos are also brilliant at writing poetry now. Incredible people. The university of Manila must be churning them out
    They also churning out an incredible number of mock ups for action figures and plushy toys if social media is anything to go by.

    The Keith lard one made me chuckle.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,650
    Andy_JS said:

    The resident population of London is about 9.5 million, but has anyone ever tried to estimate how many people are usually in Greater London on, say, a Wednesday afternoon on a normal working day (excluding holiday times like Easter, Christmas, etc)? This number would include people who work in London but don't live there, and also tourists.

    Whatever the number, I would estimate that at least half of them don't want to be there.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,482
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Leon said:

    He’s right

    Elon Musk: The right metric for intelligence is the ability to predict the future.

    “The right metric for intelligence is probably the ability to predict the future. You're as intelligent as you can predict the future well.

    Because if somebody claims this person or this AI is very intelligent, how good are its predictions? If its predictions are not very good, it's not that smart.

    To predict the future, you have to think critically about the past and constantly try to be less wrong.”

    Lancaster, Pennsylvania, October 26, 2024

    I wonder what he makes of the intelligence of the people who said in the summer of 2022 that Liz Truss as PM would surprise on the upside?
    For many it was a surprise on the upside ...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,065
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I am sure our excellent media class have done all the background reading on the mine situation...and not just taking a government talking head at their word.

    You were there for COVID. When it took 18 months for major journalists to not grasp the difference between Reporting Day and Day of Death. See Murder Tuesday.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,650
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon's favourite subject.

    "Mary Harrington
    @moveincircles
    "How much of the AI we see today is literally just underpaid Filipinos?" "

    https://x.com/moveincircles/status/1911729954506571981

    I thought he was more interested in Thais than Filipinos.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,571
    Russell George, Conservative Senedd member, suspended from party having been charged by the Gambling Commission.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,722
    Leon said:

    He’s right

    Elon Musk: The right metric for intelligence is the ability to predict the future.

    “The right metric for intelligence is probably the ability to predict the future. You're as intelligent as you can predict the future well.

    Because if somebody claims this person or this AI is very intelligent, how good are its predictions? If its predictions are not very good, it's not that smart.

    To predict the future, you have to think critically about the past and constantly try to be less wrong.”

    Lancaster, Pennsylvania, October 26, 2024

    Musk couldn't even predict the tarriffs after his boss told everyone about them.

    https://fortune.com/2025/04/11/trump-tariffs-backfire-on-elon-musk-as-tesla-pulls-models-from-china/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    Malmesbury said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I am sure our excellent media class have done all the background reading on the mine situation...and not just taking a government talking head at their word.

    You were there for COVID. When it took 18 months for major journalists to not grasp the difference between Reporting Day and Day of Death. See Murder Tuesday.
    Prof Peston getting taken to town, not once, but twice by JVT on his own show over chemical engineering was the highlight...and yet something he has even more media work as an expert talking head than before.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,722
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    He’s right

    Elon Musk: The right metric for intelligence is the ability to predict the future.

    What.Three.Words is going to take over the World!

    Oh, wait...
    when.make.profit
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,065
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    It’s just occurred to me that polls should have a Don’t Care option, as well as Don’t Know. Coz I really don’t fucking care what happens to Scunthorpe steel

    Britain is so conprehensivelt fucked in so many near-irreversible ways this is like worrying about drizzle during a hurricane

    I imagine a country governed by whim of Leon would not be markedly preferable to one governed by Trump.
    I think it's unlikely the trains would even run on time.
    But that would be 100% the fault of the Gay Trans Illegal Immigrant Alien AIs, Shirley?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,691
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Rats rejoice...

    A strike by bin workers in Birmingham is set to continue after the latest offer by the city council was "overwhelmingly" rejected.

    So what is the issue in Birmingham?

    My vague understanding was that the courts had said that X job is equivalent to bin men & therefore there can be no pay differential (plus chunky compensation)

    And the bin men a striking because they want a differential?

    I must have missed something because how does that get resolved?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,571
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    He’s right

    Elon Musk: The right metric for intelligence is the ability to predict the future.

    What.Three.Words is going to take over the World!

    Oh, wait...
    Artificial general intelligence is just around the corner!
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,183
    bondegezou said:

    Russell George, Conservative Senedd member, suspended from party having been charged by the Gambling Commission.

    George Russell on the other hand is doing pretty well these days
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,322
    A reporter asks Bukele if Kilmar Ábrego García will be returned to the US.

    "How can I return a criminal to the US? Smuggle a terrorist in?," Bukele replies.

    He then calls the question "absurd" and says he won't release Ábrego García because he isn't fond of releasing people from his prisons.

    "The question is preposterous," Bukele says. "I don't have the power to return him to the United States."
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,561
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Phil said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Nigelb said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    A new coal mine in Cumbria would not have helped British Steel, No 10 said.

    The Government confirmed earlier this month that West Cumbria Mining had withdrawn its application for a site near Whitehaven after years of legal and regulatory setbacks.

    The mine would have produced high quality metallurgical coal used in the steel industry which British Steel currently sources from abroad.

    But Downing Street dismissed the suggestion that the mine could have benefited British Steel.

    “The proposed coal mine in Cumbria wouldn’t have helped at Scunthorpe,” the Prime Minister’s official spokesman said.

    “My understanding is that British Steel had previously expressed concerns around the sulphur content of that coal… I think 85 per cent of that coal was due to be exported and obviously as you know our clean power mission will produce the clean energy we need at home allowing us to boost our energy independence to protect consumers and businesses from future price shocks and work towards bringing down bills.”

    ---

    So is the high sulphur content mean its no good for steel production or just that it wouldn't meet Ed Miliband agenda?

    "My understanding is that... had expressed concerns.." doesn't actually say that its sulphur content is too high.
    AFAIKS, no one has established whether it is or not.
    Smells like bullshit to me.

    And let's not forget that any 'concerns' expressed by British Steel were the concerns of their Chinese owners.
    I went down this particular rabbit hole earlier on & found the original planning application report from the developers & their advisors.

    Short version: yes, the coal is too high in sulphur. No, this doesn’t necessarily matter because it’s completely normal for steel plants to mix coal from different sources to obtain the ideal mix & the Cumbrian coal is desirable for other reasons which partially (but not completely) compensate for the relatively high sulphur.

    See section 2: Competitive Analysis in this document: https://cumbria.gov.uk/elibrary/Content/Internet/538/28159/44426115622.pdf

    The factoid that “the coal is useless because it’s too high in sulphur” appears to have floated free of any connection with the actual references that discuss the application in detail & become a meme quoted endlessly by anyone opposed to the mine opening.
    Good find. This bit seems important:

    One of the key features of the revised design is the ability to vary the product quality to meet specific quality criteria, principally to ensure a product which always meets defined targets in relation to sulphur and ash. The multiple stages of treatment allow fine control, with real-time inline sampling within the plant to ensure live control of the process and end product.

    7.11. The product produced by the plant will have a strict maximum limit on sulphur content of 1.6%. The target for the majority of the plant output (more than 80% of product) is for a sulphur content below 1.4%.

    Appendix 3 sets out the Woodhouse Colliery Main Band coal product detailed specification sheet.

    7.12. The main variability which would be controlled by WCM is the overall product yield (proportion of clean product produced from a given unit of input raw coal) and the ash content. With these specific sulphur limits, the ash content would be less than 5% for all of the metallurgical coal product.


    Hardly surprising Labour is being mealy-mouthed about it if it's dealt with in the design.

    Kemi could seriously draw blood over this if she tells Starmer to get digging.
    “The West Cumbrian coal mine is too high in sulphur to be useful.” is the thought-terminating cliché of the politics of whether to open said mine: A factoid that sounds plausible in isolation but really only exists to prevent further thought or investigation.

    If you go looking you see them all over the place & it’s very easy to fall prey to one that fits into your own personal prejudices.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,065
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Malmesbury said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I am sure our excellent media class have done all the background reading on the mine situation...and not just taking a government talking head at their word.

    You were there for COVID. When it took 18 months for major journalists to not grasp the difference between Reporting Day and Day of Death. See Murder Tuesday.
    Prof Peston getting taken to town, not once, but twice by JVT on his own show over chemical engineering was the highlight...and yet something he has even more media work as an expert talking head than before.
    It was almost as good as the time that someone tried to tell D.K. Brown that he was wrong about ship stability for RoRo ferries.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,479
    edited April 14
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    A reporter asks Bukele if Kilmar Ábrego García will be returned to the US.

    "How can I return a criminal to the US? Smuggle a terrorist in?," Bukele replies.

    He then calls the question "absurd" and says he won't release Ábrego García because he isn't fond of releasing people from his prisons.

    "The question is preposterous," Bukele says. "I don't have the power to return him to the United States."

    That reminds me of Putin claiming he simply HAS to steal four provinces of Ukraine because he is bound by Russia's constitution which he himself changed and then ratified in referenda he elaborately rigged.

    Funny how strongmen are only strong when they want to do something. When they don't, they're helpless prisoners of circumstance.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,276
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Leon said:

    He’s right

    Elon Musk: The right metric for intelligence is the ability to predict the future.

    “The right metric for intelligence is probably the ability to predict the future. You're as intelligent as you can predict the future well.

    Because if somebody claims this person or this AI is very intelligent, how good are its predictions? If its predictions are not very good, it's not that smart.

    To predict the future, you have to think critically about the past and constantly try to be less wrong.”

    Lancaster, Pennsylvania, October 26, 2024

    I wonder what he makes of the intelligence of the people who said in the summer of 2022 that Liz Truss as PM would surprise on the upside?
    More importantly, what does he make of the intelligence of people who predicted that Trump didn't mean it on tariffs?

    That, to quote one of Michael York's two best roles, Trump could be controlled?
  • vikvik Posts: 239
    OldKingCole said:

    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    On the upside, Astana looks quite cool at night

    It amazing what $80bn a year of oil exports can build...
    I’m still not entirely sure why Putin didn’t invade Kazakhstan, instead of Uke

    Far easier to swoop in. Population easily as pro Russian. Huge oil reserves. No NATO nearby

    I guess the emotional pull of Kyiv was too much, plus faulty intelligence persuading him it would be easy
    Kazakhstan wasn’t going to join NATO. Or likely to.
    The actual reason for the invasion was Ukraine's desire to join the EU.

    The origin of the invasion was the Euromaidan protests in 2013. The protests started after the pro-Russian Ukrainian President Yanukovich cancelled the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement, and said that he wanted to instead pursue closer ties to Russia.

    The Euromaidan protests results in Yanukovich being deposed and having to flee the country, and being replaced by a pro-European government. In response Putin invaded Crimea & fomented the unrest in Eastern Ukraine.

    After Ukraine continued to elect pro-European governments & continued to reject pro-Russian politicians, Putin eventually decided to invade Kyiv, to try and directly install a pro-Russian government.

    Regarding Kazakhstan, the internal political situation isn't exactly as lovely, peaceful & harmonious as Leon is presenting it to be. In 2022, there was significant unrest resulting in nearly 260 deaths:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Kazakh_unrest
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,691
    viewcode said:

    SandyRentool said:

    30% of Lib Dems want to know if the steel is vegan before forming a view.

    I can assure you that molten steel contains no animal or animal-derived products. At least not for long.
    And you can’t prove otherwise…
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,627
    Fishing said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    A reporter asks Bukele if Kilmar Ábrego García will be returned to the US.

    "How can I return a criminal to the US? Smuggle a terrorist in?," Bukele replies.

    He then calls the question "absurd" and says he won't release Ábrego García because he isn't fond of releasing people from his prisons.

    "The question is preposterous," Bukele says. "I don't have the power to return him to the United States."

    That reminds me of Putin claiming he simply HAS to steal four provinces of Ukraine because he is bound by Russia's constitution which he himself changed and then ratified in referenda he elaborately rigged.

    Funny how strongmen are only strong when they want to do something. When they don't, they're helpless prisoners of circumstance.
    Trump is so pathetically weak.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,691
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Taz said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The weird government response to when are you getting the raw materials for furnace continues.

    Big Ange, well we have paid for them. Are they coming today. We have paid for them. We are confident they will come in time.

    The media question are usual is stupid, they aren't buying the coal off Amazon Prime, but you would think they must have a timeline and that would shut the media up with the constant questioning.

    Already paid for the goods but not got them ?
    The "its commercially sensitive" excuse is also weird. You have bought a ship load of coal, we aren't asking for the blueprints to the Hinckley Point Nuclear Power Station.
    It's a boilerplate response to any enquiry relating to contacts with commercial companies. Though given the taxpayer is footing the bill, it's generally a load of unjustifiable bollocks designed to deflect substantive questions.

    IMO there should be a presumption against "commercial confidentiality" covering any government contract, and a requirement to demonstrate good reasons for going against it.
    The problem here is that someone has probably bought all the coke from British Steel and has charged a significant premium to sell it to the Government
    So what ?
    Presumably someone like Trafiga.

    Or someone who might struggle with KYC checks…
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,920
    It's looking as if Trump has decided that the Garcia case is one where he is prepared for a full on constitutional crisis. But, despite the overwhelming moral case for his return to the USA and release from prison, following his accidental rendition in the end the SCOTUS might have to accept that it falls between legal cracks, as the USA government can always deny that it has power over a foreign jurisdiction, even though it very obviously does in this case, and El Salvador can simply not get involved.

    I wonder if a third country (Canada comes to mind) might offer to take him?

    Useful update from David Allen Green here:

    https://davidallengreen.com/2025/04/a-note-about-injunctions-in-the-context-of-the-abrego-garcia-case/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,252
    vik said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Leon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Leon said:

    On the upside, Astana looks quite cool at night

    It amazing what $80bn a year of oil exports can build...
    I’m still not entirely sure why Putin didn’t invade Kazakhstan, instead of Uke

    Far easier to swoop in. Population easily as pro Russian. Huge oil reserves. No NATO nearby

    I guess the emotional pull of Kyiv was too much, plus faulty intelligence persuading him it would be easy
    Kazakhstan wasn’t going to join NATO. Or likely to.
    The actual reason for the invasion was Ukraine's desire to join the EU.

    The origin of the invasion was the Euromaidan protests in 2013. The protests started after the pro-Russian Ukrainian President Yanukovich cancelled the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement, and said that he wanted to instead pursue closer ties to Russia.

    The Euromaidan protests results in Yanukovich being deposed and having to flee the country, and being replaced by a pro-European government. In response Putin invaded Crimea & fomented the unrest in Eastern Ukraine.

    After Ukraine continued to elect pro-European governments & continued to reject pro-Russian politicians, Putin eventually decided to invade Kyiv, to try and directly install a pro-Russian government.

    Regarding Kazakhstan, the internal political situation isn't exactly as lovely, peaceful & harmonious as Leon is presenting it to be. In 2022, there was significant unrest resulting in nearly 260 deaths:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Kazakh_unrest
    Yeah, but Kazakhstan is predominantly Muslim, and Leon *loves* the way China deals with its Muslim population. So a few hundred dead Muslims will not bother him.
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