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The Need For Allies  – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,416
edited April 8 in General
The Need For Allies  – politicalbetting.com

A feature of the classical Greek world was that long-term alliances, as we would understand the term, rarely existed.  A major power, be it Athens, Sparta, Thebes, or Macedon, would attempt to assert supremacy over its neighbours, and if successful, it would be accepted by them as Hegemon.  Typically, a Hegemon would expect its allies to follow it in war, accept garrisons of its soldiers, and c…

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459

    Terrible news for Russia on the oil price front: OPEC+ increasing production by 450,000 bopd whilst Saudi is cutting the price it charges.

    https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Saudi-Arabia-Slashes-Oil-Prices-Ahead-of-Output-Boost.html

    This follows Trump's demand slump on the back of his tariff recession fears. India and China aren't going to need Moscow's discounted oil deals - they can get it on the open market without risk of attendant sanctions.

    Oh, and the rate of inflation in Russia is up to an official 10.1% in February, whilst production rose by just 0.1%. Stagflation writ large.

    What does this do to US producers at the margin ?
    Nothing good, I suspect.

    Saudi attempt to take a greater market share ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,122

    The Canadian Conservative Party are so buggered, they'll end up with 2 MPs at the end of the month.

    The Canadian Conservative Party has suffered a big setback due to its links with Donald Trump, but they shouldn’t despair, another right-wing visionary is riding to the rescue.

    Liz Truss, the novella of British leaders, has been deployed to say the new Liberal prime minister Mark Carney did “a terrible job” as governor of the Bank of England and “created a lot of the problems that blew up on my watch and that I got blamed for”.

    It’s characteristic of Truss to so bravely blame another, but she also said that Carney was now backing policies which were “leading the country to bankruptcy”.

    You’d have thought she would rejoice upon finding such a like-minded soul.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/liz-truss-criticise-mark-carney-economy-6pgbj2q0q

    I don't see how any patriotic Canadian could vote Conservative.

    Mind you, I can't see how any patriotic Briton could vote for Trumps English gimpneither, but Farage leads the polls.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,870
    At the moment the only nations the US isn't alienating are Russia and Israel. There is a risk like Athens it could find asserting its will so mercilessly could come back to haunt it if the tide turns against it.

    However despite threats of annexation against Canada and Greenland unlike the ancient Greeks it is economic dominance rather than military dominance and conquest Trump is focused on. Hence his tariffs on so many nations imports to try and rebuild US industry though at the cost of potential cost of living rises.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,870

    The Canadian Conservative Party are so buggered, they'll end up with 2 MPs at the end of the month.

    The Canadian Conservative Party has suffered a big setback due to its links with Donald Trump, but they shouldn’t despair, another right-wing visionary is riding to the rescue.

    Liz Truss, the novella of British leaders, has been deployed to say the new Liberal prime minister Mark Carney did “a terrible job” as governor of the Bank of England and “created a lot of the problems that blew up on my watch and that I got blamed for”.

    It’s characteristic of Truss to so bravely blame another, but she also said that Carney was now backing policies which were “leading the country to bankruptcy”.

    You’d have thought she would rejoice upon finding such a like-minded soul.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/liz-truss-criticise-mark-carney-economy-6pgbj2q0q

    Carney is very much a deep state globalist from the Truss right perspective.

    Note most polls have the Canadian Conservatives up on the last election, just the Liberals up even more
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,453

    On topic, thanks for this Sean.

    @Morris_Dancer, if you're struggling to understand some of the historical references in this piece then do not be afraid to reach out and ask, I will be more than happy to explain them to you.

    Ha, the only thing I might seek in explanation from you is the annoying timing of the new thread ;)

    Anyway, FPT:

    F1: it's here, the review of the most exciting race ever held! Forget Canada 2011, I speak, of course, of Japan in 2025 (also, a preview of Bahrain, which might actually be good):

    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-japanese-gp-review-and-bahrain-gp-preview/

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-japanese-gp-review-and-bahrain-gp-preview/id1786574257?i=1000702649287

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0uPJ5ejTQNpzA1ONAtbIoP

    Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/5bf0f8d4-7d90-4cad-b265-fc30b3f68e83/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-japanese-gp-review-and-bahrain-gp-preview

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/04/f1-2025-japanese-gp-review-and-bahrain.html
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,084
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    The Canadian Conservative Party are so buggered, they'll end up with 2 MPs at the end of the month.

    The Canadian Conservative Party has suffered a big setback due to its links with Donald Trump, but they shouldn’t despair, another right-wing visionary is riding to the rescue.

    Liz Truss, the novella of British leaders, has been deployed to say the new Liberal prime minister Mark Carney did “a terrible job” as governor of the Bank of England and “created a lot of the problems that blew up on my watch and that I got blamed for”.

    It’s characteristic of Truss to so bravely blame another, but she also said that Carney was now backing policies which were “leading the country to bankruptcy”.

    You’d have thought she would rejoice upon finding such a like-minded soul.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/liz-truss-criticise-mark-carney-economy-6pgbj2q0q

    I don't see how any patriotic Canadian could vote Conservative.

    Mind you, I can't see how any patriotic Briton could vote for Trumps English gimpneither, but Farage leads the polls.
    Is gimpneither one of those obscure WWII German army ranks ?
    Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitängimpneither?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,122
    Incidentally, in the spirit of PB pedantry could I point out that Vance did not serve in the US Army. He was a journalist in the Marine Corps. I have no idea if he has read any Greek classics.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,047

    The Canadian Conservative Party are so buggered, they'll end up with 2 MPs at the end of the month.

    The Canadian Conservative Party has suffered a big setback due to its links with Donald Trump, but they shouldn’t despair, another right-wing visionary is riding to the rescue.

    Liz Truss, the novella of British leaders, has been deployed to say the new Liberal prime minister Mark Carney did “a terrible job” as governor of the Bank of England and “created a lot of the problems that blew up on my watch and that I got blamed for”.

    It’s characteristic of Truss to so bravely blame another, but she also said that Carney was now backing policies which were “leading the country to bankruptcy”.

    You’d have thought she would rejoice upon finding such a like-minded soul.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/liz-truss-criticise-mark-carney-economy-6pgbj2q0q

    Yes I’m sure that will help them! Having Liz Truss coming to their aid will only remind Canadians of her disastrous time as PM . Carneys time as BOC chairman is what Canadians are looking at , given Canada weathered the 2008 crash much better than any other major western economy .

    Poilievre hasn’t had a job outside of politics and given what’s happening with tariffs and his previous attempts to mimic Trump it’s hard to see how that combination is going to be a “ winning formula “.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,453
    Good article, Mr. F. The Athenians could've had a much better deal with the Spartans midway through the war, but hubris carried them away, and nemesis wasn't far behind.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,122
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    The Canadian Conservative Party are so buggered, they'll end up with 2 MPs at the end of the month.

    The Canadian Conservative Party has suffered a big setback due to its links with Donald Trump, but they shouldn’t despair, another right-wing visionary is riding to the rescue.

    Liz Truss, the novella of British leaders, has been deployed to say the new Liberal prime minister Mark Carney did “a terrible job” as governor of the Bank of England and “created a lot of the problems that blew up on my watch and that I got blamed for”.

    It’s characteristic of Truss to so bravely blame another, but she also said that Carney was now backing policies which were “leading the country to bankruptcy”.

    You’d have thought she would rejoice upon finding such a like-minded soul.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/liz-truss-criticise-mark-carney-economy-6pgbj2q0q

    I don't see how any patriotic Canadian could vote Conservative.

    Mind you, I can't see how any patriotic Briton could vote for Trumps English gimpneither, but Farage leads the polls.
    Is gimpneither one of those obscure WWII German army ranks ?
    Yes, it's an underling role, basically describing a junior NCO who spends more time in Mar el Largo than Clacton.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459
    HYUFD said:

    At the moment the only nations the US isn't alienating are Russia and Israel. There is a risk like Athens it could find asserting its will so mercilessly could come back to haunt it if the tide turns against it.

    However despite threats of annexation against Canada and Greenland unlike the ancient Greeks it is economic dominance rather than military dominance and conquest Trump is focused on. Hence his tariffs on so many nations imports to try and rebuild US industry though at the cost of potential cost of living rises.

    The US was already seeing the largest rise in manufacturing investment in years. The consequences of his tariffs are more likely to stall that than they are to help.

  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,083
    edited April 8
    When are the BBC going to start doing their “the BBC has been unable to independently verify this” statement after playing the bollocks that Trump is spouting each day?

    On other matters am I a bad person for laughing listening to the words of a Ukrainian non violent resistance leader in occupied Ukraine as the person speaking her words sounds exactly like Alan Partridge’s crazy girlfriend in the second series.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,430
    Nigelb said:

    Terrible news for Russia on the oil price front: OPEC+ increasing production by 450,000 bopd whilst Saudi is cutting the price it charges.

    https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Saudi-Arabia-Slashes-Oil-Prices-Ahead-of-Output-Boost.html

    This follows Trump's demand slump on the back of his tariff recession fears. India and China aren't going to need Moscow's discounted oil deals - they can get it on the open market without risk of attendant sanctions.

    Oh, and the rate of inflation in Russia is up to an official 10.1% in February, whilst production rose by just 0.1%. Stagflation writ large.

    What does this do to US producers at the margin ?
    Nothing good, I suspect.

    Saudi attempt to take a greater market share ?
    Trumps "drill, baby, drill" is going to founder on the rock of sub-economic exploration. Saudi market share will increase anyway once Iran's oil production and storage facilities get bombed and Russia priced out the market (what oil isn't getting trashed by Ukraine).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459
    Foxy said:

    Incidentally, in the spirit of PB pedantry could I point out that Vance did not serve in the US Army. He was a journalist in the Marine Corps. I have no idea if he has read any Greek classics.

    He also seems to be on board with the Trump 'strategy'.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,430
    nico67 said:

    The Canadian Conservative Party are so buggered, they'll end up with 2 MPs at the end of the month.

    The Canadian Conservative Party has suffered a big setback due to its links with Donald Trump, but they shouldn’t despair, another right-wing visionary is riding to the rescue.

    Liz Truss, the novella of British leaders, has been deployed to say the new Liberal prime minister Mark Carney did “a terrible job” as governor of the Bank of England and “created a lot of the problems that blew up on my watch and that I got blamed for”.

    It’s characteristic of Truss to so bravely blame another, but she also said that Carney was now backing policies which were “leading the country to bankruptcy”.

    You’d have thought she would rejoice upon finding such a like-minded soul.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/liz-truss-criticise-mark-carney-economy-6pgbj2q0q

    Yes I’m sure that will help them! Having Liz Truss coming to their aid will only remind Canadians of her disastrous time as PM . Carneys time as BOC chairman is what Canadians are looking at , given Canada weathered the 2008 crash much better than any other major western economy .

    Poilievre hasn’t had a job outside of politics and given what’s happening with tariffs and his previous attempts to mimic Trump it’s hard to see how that combination is going to be a “ winning formula “.
    You'd have to imagine any Canadians who were coming back to Poilievre must be looking at Trump's antics of the past week and thinking "Nah....."
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,084
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment the only nations the US isn't alienating are Russia and Israel. There is a risk like Athens it could find asserting its will so mercilessly could come back to haunt it if the tide turns against it.

    However despite threats of annexation against Canada and Greenland unlike the ancient Greeks it is economic dominance rather than military dominance and conquest Trump is focused on. Hence his tariffs on so many nations imports to try and rebuild US industry though at the cost of potential cost of living rises.

    The US was already seeing the largest rise in manufacturing investment in years. The consequences of his tariffs are more likely to stall that than they are to help.

    As @rcs1000 has pointed out multiple times, who will make business decisions (except hunker down) as a result of Trump’s trade war?

    Consider an alternative - I want to revive/create an industry. Offer a subsidy per unit of actual production, scaled on domestic content level. Historically the US government (federal, state and even local) has been very reliable about keeping to and paying out such subsidies. Over decades.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,266
    Good header and nice photo (with cement mixer for scale).

    Happy Dead Cat Bounce Day everyone!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment the only nations the US isn't alienating are Russia and Israel. There is a risk like Athens it could find asserting its will so mercilessly could come back to haunt it if the tide turns against it.

    However despite threats of annexation against Canada and Greenland unlike the ancient Greeks it is economic dominance rather than military dominance and conquest Trump is focused on. Hence his tariffs on so many nations imports to try and rebuild US industry though at the cost of potential cost of living rises.

    The US was already seeing the largest rise in manufacturing investment in years. The consequences of his tariffs are more likely to stall that than they are to help.

    As @rcs1000 has pointed out multiple times, who will make business decisions (except hunker down) as a result of Trump’s trade war?

    Consider an alternative - I want to revive/create an industry. Offer a subsidy per unit of actual production, scaled on domestic content level. Historically the US government (federal, state and even local) has been very reliable about keeping to and paying out such subsidies. Over decades.
    The carrot is more conducive to production that is the carpet bomb, as Thucidydes might have said ?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,626
    Excellent piece, Sean. Thank you.

    Am I right in thinking that the famous dictum you quote came to be used ironically, as a lesson in the value and necessity of diplomacy? In other words, the crude bullying of the weak by the strong became an example of how not to do things.

    Or did the Greeks never learn?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,122
    edited April 8
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Incidentally, in the spirit of PB pedantry could I point out that Vance did not serve in the US Army. He was a journalist in the Marine Corps. I have no idea if he has read any Greek classics.

    He also seems to be on board with the Trump 'strategy'.
    I don't think he believes it.

    Vance is just a human chameleon who changes colour to suit the political environment. If the Grim Reaper makes him POTUS I have no idea how he would change things, apart from virulent anti-Europeanism.

    Perhaps he might listen to the Pope if the Vatican appoints a traditionalist from somewhere like Poland or Lithuania, or even Ukraine.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459
    They lost.

    U.S. Senator Ted Cruz has made an appearance at the Final Four championship game, despite fans claiming that when the Texas senator attends the game for the team he is rooting for, they are "cursed" and lose the game.
    https://x.com/HoustonChron/status/1909428989338206637
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,266
    HYUFD said:

    The Canadian Conservative Party are so buggered, they'll end up with 2 MPs at the end of the month.

    The Canadian Conservative Party has suffered a big setback due to its links with Donald Trump, but they shouldn’t despair, another right-wing visionary is riding to the rescue.

    Liz Truss, the novella of British leaders, has been deployed to say the new Liberal prime minister Mark Carney did “a terrible job” as governor of the Bank of England and “created a lot of the problems that blew up on my watch and that I got blamed for”.

    It’s characteristic of Truss to so bravely blame another, but she also said that Carney was now backing policies which were “leading the country to bankruptcy”.

    You’d have thought she would rejoice upon finding such a like-minded soul.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/liz-truss-criticise-mark-carney-economy-6pgbj2q0q

    Carney is very much a deep state globalist from the Truss right perspective.

    Note most polls have the Canadian Conservatives up on the last election, just the Liberals up even more
    Canadian Government approval polls: -42% to +16% in successive polls* by the same company.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2025_Canadian_federal_election#Government_approval_polls

    (*Ok, there was an 11 week gap.)
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,492
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment the only nations the US isn't alienating are Russia and Israel. There is a risk like Athens it could find asserting its will so mercilessly could come back to haunt it if the tide turns against it.

    However despite threats of annexation against Canada and Greenland unlike the ancient Greeks it is economic dominance rather than military dominance and conquest Trump is focused on. Hence his tariffs on so many nations imports to try and rebuild US industry though at the cost of potential cost of living rises.

    The US was already seeing the largest rise in manufacturing investment in years. The consequences of his tariffs are more likely to stall that than they are to help.

    I wonder how many enthusiasts for Trump's tariffs will be investing their own money into setting up clothing factories in small town Michigan.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,122

    Good header and nice photo (with cement mixer for scale).

    Happy Dead Cat Bounce Day everyone!

    I think the Parthenon will be pretty impressive when the Greeks finally finish building it, so don't mock their cement mixer!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459

    Excellent piece, Sean. Thank you.

    Am I right in thinking that the famous dictum you quote came to be used ironically, as a lesson in the value and necessity of diplomacy? In other words, the crude bullying of the weak by the strong became an example of how not to do things.

    Or did the Greeks never learn?

    If you want friends, you have to be a friend.
    Is there a Greek tag for that ?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,047
    edited April 8

    nico67 said:

    The Canadian Conservative Party are so buggered, they'll end up with 2 MPs at the end of the month.

    The Canadian Conservative Party has suffered a big setback due to its links with Donald Trump, but they shouldn’t despair, another right-wing visionary is riding to the rescue.

    Liz Truss, the novella of British leaders, has been deployed to say the new Liberal prime minister Mark Carney did “a terrible job” as governor of the Bank of England and “created a lot of the problems that blew up on my watch and that I got blamed for”.

    It’s characteristic of Truss to so bravely blame another, but she also said that Carney was now backing policies which were “leading the country to bankruptcy”.

    You’d have thought she would rejoice upon finding such a like-minded soul.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/liz-truss-criticise-mark-carney-economy-6pgbj2q0q

    Yes I’m sure that will help them! Having Liz Truss coming to their aid will only remind Canadians of her disastrous time as PM . Carneys time as BOC chairman is what Canadians are looking at , given Canada weathered the 2008 crash much better than any other major western economy .

    Poilievre hasn’t had a job outside of politics and given what’s happening with tariffs and his previous attempts to mimic Trump it’s hard to see how that combination is going to be a “ winning formula “.
    You'd have to imagine any Canadians who were coming back to Poilievre must be looking at Trump's antics of the past week and thinking "Nah....."
    The smaller parties are really suffering as voters are forced into making what they see as the least worst option . The NDP vote has collapsed with that moving towards the Libs . The Libs have a better distribution of their vote as well . There’s still just under 3 weeks to go and several debates to come but the resignation of Trudeau , Trumps tariffs and annexation threats on Canada and Carney winning the leadership have all combined to turn what was looking like an easy Conservative win into a loss . It’s quite extraordinary to see a lead for them in most polls of 20 to 25 points in January turn into a deficit .
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,626
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Incidentally, in the spirit of PB pedantry could I point out that Vance did not serve in the US Army. He was a journalist in the Marine Corps. I have no idea if he has read any Greek classics.

    He also seems to be on board with the Trump 'strategy'.
    You know I really am beat as to what this strategy is, who is truly on board with it, and why.

    I suspect there really is no strategy. Trump is winging it on the basis of the kind of economics espoused by red necked lounge lizards. The rest just nod along because it pays to do so....until it doesn't when they will reverse ferret immediately.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,436

    The Canadian Conservative Party are so buggered, they'll end up with 2 MPs at the end of the month.

    The Canadian Conservative Party has suffered a big setback due to its links with Donald Trump, but they shouldn’t despair, another right-wing visionary is riding to the rescue.

    Liz Truss, the novella of British leaders, has been deployed to say the new Liberal prime minister Mark Carney did “a terrible job” as governor of the Bank of England and “created a lot of the problems that blew up on my watch and that I got blamed for”.

    It’s characteristic of Truss to so bravely blame another, but she also said that Carney was now backing policies which were “leading the country to bankruptcy”.

    You’d have thought she would rejoice upon finding such a like-minded soul.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/liz-truss-criticise-mark-carney-economy-6pgbj2q0q

    That last sentence is savage.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Incidentally, in the spirit of PB pedantry could I point out that Vance did not serve in the US Army. He was a journalist in the Marine Corps. I have no idea if he has read any Greek classics.

    He also seems to be on board with the Trump 'strategy'.
    You know I really am beat as to what this strategy is, who is truly on board with it, and why.

    I suspect there really is no strategy. Trump is winging it on the basis of the kind of economics espoused by red necked lounge lizards. The rest just nod along because it pays to do so....until it doesn't when they will reverse ferret immediately.
    Well it is composed of utterly contradictory elements, so I don't understand it either.

    But I think he's been keen on tariffs for decades. And doesn't have even a basic grasp of economics.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,084
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment the only nations the US isn't alienating are Russia and Israel. There is a risk like Athens it could find asserting its will so mercilessly could come back to haunt it if the tide turns against it.

    However despite threats of annexation against Canada and Greenland unlike the ancient Greeks it is economic dominance rather than military dominance and conquest Trump is focused on. Hence his tariffs on so many nations imports to try and rebuild US industry though at the cost of potential cost of living rises.

    The US was already seeing the largest rise in manufacturing investment in years. The consequences of his tariffs are more likely to stall that than they are to help.

    As @rcs1000 has pointed out multiple times, who will make business decisions (except hunker down) as a result of Trump’s trade war?

    Consider an alternative - I want to revive/create an industry. Offer a subsidy per unit of actual production, scaled on domestic content level. Historically the US government (federal, state and even local) has been very reliable about keeping to and paying out such subsidies. Over decades.
    The carrot is more conducive to production that is the carpet bomb, as Thucidydes might have said ?
    More that what businesses value most (after cost - and sometimes even before) is stability.

    Norway has long been a relatively high tax area for oil and gas operations. But their taxes and policies are very stable. So it is easy to work on a 20 year horizon. When I worked in the area, many years ago, everyone liked working on Norwegian projects. They would make a deal and stick to it.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,007
    The most shocking news in some time.

    The Oldie says Alex has been sacked by the Telegraph.

    I stopped buying the Telegraph several years ago.... as it was too right wing.. yes I did... but more to the point I had no time for the Barclay Brothers and they were not going to get any more of my money.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,148
    Hey @Sean_F , nice article thank you :)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,561
    Taz said:

    The Canadian Conservative Party are so buggered, they'll end up with 2 MPs at the end of the month.

    The Canadian Conservative Party has suffered a big setback due to its links with Donald Trump, but they shouldn’t despair, another right-wing visionary is riding to the rescue.

    Liz Truss, the novella of British leaders, has been deployed to say the new Liberal prime minister Mark Carney did “a terrible job” as governor of the Bank of England and “created a lot of the problems that blew up on my watch and that I got blamed for”.

    It’s characteristic of Truss to so bravely blame another, but she also said that Carney was now backing policies which were “leading the country to bankruptcy”.

    You’d have thought she would rejoice upon finding such a like-minded soul.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/liz-truss-criticise-mark-carney-economy-6pgbj2q0q

    That last sentence is savage.
    Indeed, I do feel sorry for Liz Truss, somebody who I respect a lot says Liz Truss is suffering from PTSD.

    Very few people will understood the trauma of your party deciding to oust you as PM after six weeks.

    The reality is she was PM for fewer than four weeks when you factor in the death of the Queen and the funeral when politics was effectively suspended.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459
    edited April 8

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment the only nations the US isn't alienating are Russia and Israel. There is a risk like Athens it could find asserting its will so mercilessly could come back to haunt it if the tide turns against it.

    However despite threats of annexation against Canada and Greenland unlike the ancient Greeks it is economic dominance rather than military dominance and conquest Trump is focused on. Hence his tariffs on so many nations imports to try and rebuild US industry though at the cost of potential cost of living rises.

    The US was already seeing the largest rise in manufacturing investment in years. The consequences of his tariffs are more likely to stall that than they are to help.

    As @rcs1000 has pointed out multiple times, who will make business decisions (except hunker down) as a result of Trump’s trade war?

    Consider an alternative - I want to revive/create an industry. Offer a subsidy per unit of actual production, scaled on domestic content level. Historically the US government (federal, state and even local) has been very reliable about keeping to and paying out such subsidies. Over decades.
    The carrot is more conducive to production that is the carpet bomb, as Thucidydes might have said ?
    More that what businesses value most (after cost - and sometimes even before) is stability.

    Norway has long been a relatively high tax area for oil and gas operations. But their taxes and policies are very stable. So it is easy to work on a 20 year horizon. When I worked in the area, many years ago, everyone liked working on Norwegian projects. They would make a deal and stick to it.
    That characterises Trump's problem quite well.
    Absolutely no one expects him to stick to any deal he might make, ever.

    @Richard_Tyndall who works in the industry has often made this point, too.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,122
    A good piece on Badenoch:

    "Consider also Badenoch’s comments on Partygate, JD Vance, maternity pay and the minimum wage in these terms. After all, can the apparent “authenticity” of Badenoch’s positions really compete with the manifest political downsides?

    Above all else however, Badenoch’s rows point to a lack of understanding or research about a given topic. Her position on Adolescence, while unlikely to dictate the outcome of the next election, was baseless — and apparently borne of a social media conspiracy theory. Her (mis)understanding of public opinion could well be linked back to an evidenced over-reliance on social media."

    https://www.politics.co.uk/politicslunch/2025/04/07/anatomy-of-a-kemi-badenoch-row/
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,520
    edited April 8
    Thank-you for the header, and good morning everyone.

    I've been reflecting on an analogy to Stalin's concept of "Socialism in One Country" (ie Plan B when world revolution failed to happen), and if "Capitalism in One Country" is viable - I suspect not, Professier Moriarty.

    The last time I heard Socialism in One Country advocated was pre-Gorbachev, from the lecturer chaperoning a group of exchange students from Leningrad in 1987.

    I wonder how many lessons we need to draw with respect to the USA, from how we maintained a world trading economy when the USSR was around? And when will Trump's USA's version of 1991 be?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,122
    edited April 8

    Taz said:

    The Canadian Conservative Party are so buggered, they'll end up with 2 MPs at the end of the month.

    The Canadian Conservative Party has suffered a big setback due to its links with Donald Trump, but they shouldn’t despair, another right-wing visionary is riding to the rescue.

    Liz Truss, the novella of British leaders, has been deployed to say the new Liberal prime minister Mark Carney did “a terrible job” as governor of the Bank of England and “created a lot of the problems that blew up on my watch and that I got blamed for”.

    It’s characteristic of Truss to so bravely blame another, but she also said that Carney was now backing policies which were “leading the country to bankruptcy”.

    You’d have thought she would rejoice upon finding such a like-minded soul.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/liz-truss-criticise-mark-carney-economy-6pgbj2q0q

    That last sentence is savage.
    Indeed, I do feel sorry for Liz Truss, somebody who I respect a lot says Liz Truss is suffering from PTSD.

    Very few people will understood the trauma of your party deciding to oust you as PM after six weeks.

    The reality is she was PM for fewer than four weeks when you factor in the death of the Queen and the funeral when politics was effectively suspended.
    Yes even the most bonkers PM in modern history deserves sympathy, if not any sort of political post.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,001

    Excellent piece, Sean. Thank you.

    Am I right in thinking that the famous dictum you quote came to be used ironically, as a lesson in the value and necessity of diplomacy? In other words, the crude bullying of the weak by the strong became an example of how not to do things.

    Or did the Greeks never learn?

    At least they never stepped in the same river twice

  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,520
    FPT:
    dunham said:

    MattW said:

    Oh. For F**K'S sake.

    The Nobs of Altrincham all need self-driving Teslas because the installation of a short cycle track and pedestrian crossing means that none of them can find the plonking great parish church any more, so the vicar claims that 40% of them have stopped coming. Perhaps only 60% will tolerate fools gladly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1k4n2w9mygo

    What's happened is that 1/3 of the parish have a new crossing so it is no longer cut off by a 10k vehicles a day road, and he has a lovely new active travel route so they can all get to his church without a quarter mile diversion to find a crossing across the bloody main road.

    God save us from whining (*&^^$&*ers.

    (My lovingkindness muscles are under strain, today, after three cars full of police turned up to a minor incident in the local park, whilst other people leave their cars all over the f**cking pavements with ZERO intervention.)

    Personally, I find this new pedestrian crossing over the busy Dunham Road very useful on the walk to my regular place of worship (not St Margaret's Church).
    Thanks for the reply. I had a serious dig into this when the story was first out last year, and the non-attendance was already being blamed on the short cycle lane (before it was actually built iirc - then it was attendance at Christmas services).

    The previous Vicar there was a character - a biker with a Harley that he used for charity fundraising.

    What they actually have (in Church of England "cure of the parish" terms) is a superb new mission / engagement opportunity - 1/3 of their parish area is the other side of the main road and has been cut off since the (estd) 1960s. And they now have a significant route in the new active travel network going past their door and people waiting outside for a minute to cross the road on the pedestrian crossing, and they are now the focus where people will come to cross.

    It's crying out for a carefully designed wayside pulpit, noticeboard and maybe a cafe, and some cycle and mobility aid parking at the church. Plus it's an ideal place for inclusive cycling trials, since they have a sealed path and car park. There is a ready built platform to reach a whole new demographic.

    All the infra and organisations exist in Manchester, including grants for their cycle / mobility aid parking.

    But ... no.

    That's why I'm a little cross about it.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,854
    Yup.

    Trump and his acolytes might be more Greek if they didn't so obviously despise their own military.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,115
    It's all Greek to me.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,007
    Good morning

    A very good header and much appreciated @Sean_F
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,870
    edited April 8
    MattW said:

    FPT:

    dunham said:

    MattW said:

    Oh. For F**K'S sake.

    The Nobs of Altrincham all need self-driving Teslas because the installation of a short cycle track and pedestrian crossing means that none of them can find the plonking great parish church any more, so the vicar claims that 40% of them have stopped coming. Perhaps only 60% will tolerate fools gladly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1k4n2w9mygo

    What's happened is that 1/3 of the parish have a new crossing so it is no longer cut off by a 10k vehicles a day road, and he has a lovely new active travel route so they can all get to his church without a quarter mile diversion to find a crossing across the bloody main road.

    God save us from whining (*&^^$&*ers.

    (My lovingkindness muscles are under strain, today, after three cars full of police turned up to a minor incident in the local park, whilst other people leave their cars all over the f**cking pavements with ZERO intervention.)

    Personally, I find this new pedestrian crossing over the busy Dunham Road very useful on the walk to my regular place of worship (not St Margaret's Church).
    Thanks for the reply. I had a serious dig into this when the story was first out last year, and the non-attendance was already being blamed on the short cycle lane (before it was actually built iirc - then it was attendance at Christmas services).

    The previous Vicar there was a character - a biker with a Harley that he used for charity fundraising.

    What they actually have (in Church of England "cure of the parish" terms) is a superb new mission / engagement opportunity - 1/3 of their parish area is the other side of the main road and has been cut off since the (estd) 1960s. And they now have a significant route in the new active travel network going past their door and people waiting outside for a minute to cross the road on the pedestrian crossing, and they are now the focus where people will come to cross.

    It's crying out for a carefully designed wayside pulpit, noticeboard and maybe a cafe, and some cycle and mobility aid parking at the church. Plus it's an ideal place for inclusive cycling trials, since they have a sealed path and car park. There is a ready built platform to reach a whole new demographic.

    All the infra and organisations
    exist in Manchester,
    including grants for their
    cycle / mobility aid parking.

    But ... no.

    That's why I'm a little cross
    about it.
    While the actual regular
    Parish church attendees can largely go hang with vastly
    extended journey times and sat nav confusion to
    accommodate these cyclists
    and pedestrian crossing
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,115
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment the only nations the US isn't alienating are Russia and Israel. There is a risk like Athens it could find asserting its will so mercilessly could come back to haunt it if the tide turns against it.

    However despite threats of annexation against Canada and Greenland unlike the ancient Greeks it is economic dominance rather than military dominance and conquest Trump is focused on. Hence his tariffs on so many nations imports to try and rebuild US industry though at the cost of potential cost of living rises.

    The US was already seeing the largest rise in manufacturing investment in years. The consequences of his tariffs are more likely to stall that than they are to help.

    Although, ironically, the principal reason for that rise in manufacturing investment was government subsidy which would have counted as an NTB for WTO purposes, if the US had not made sure that the appeal court of that body was not quorate so they could no longer rule on such things.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,576
    Salem from Almaty. Gorgeous day here. The Tien Shans glitter like a row of giant Ku Klux Klanners in sparkly hoods after a party
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,870
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment the only nations the US isn't alienating are Russia and Israel. There is a risk like Athens it could find asserting its will so mercilessly could come back to haunt it if the tide turns against it.

    However despite threats of annexation against Canada and Greenland unlike the ancient Greeks it is economic dominance rather than military dominance and conquest Trump is focused on. Hence his tariffs on so many nations imports to try and rebuild US industry though at the cost of potential cost of living rises.

    The US was already seeing the largest rise in manufacturing investment in years. The consequences of his tariffs are more likely to stall that than they are to help.

    Mostly in hi tech whereas the average Trump voter wants mass manufacturing back
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,115
    UK suffers "unprecedented" slump in productivity: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/britain-suffers-unprecedented-fall-in-productivity/ar-AA1CuEjn?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=d06ef92cf67d40fe83f42058c08e0692&ei=14

    When are we going to stop pretending that those working from home are actually working?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,388

    Terrible news for Russia on the oil price front: OPEC+ increasing production by 450,000 bopd whilst Saudi is cutting the price it charges.

    https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Saudi-Arabia-Slashes-Oil-Prices-Ahead-of-Output-Boost.html

    This follows Trump's demand slump on the back of his tariff recession fears. India and China aren't going to need Moscow's discounted oil deals - they can get it on the open market without risk of attendant sanctions.

    Oh, and the rate of inflation in Russia is up to an official 10.1% in February, whilst production rose by just 0.1%. Stagflation writ large.

    Meanwhile, Russia on the back foot after a Ukrainian offensive in Belgorod Oblast... Despite Trumpistan, Russia is in serious difficulty.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,450

    Excellent piece, Sean. Thank you.

    Am I right in thinking that the famous dictum you quote came to be used ironically, as a lesson in the value and necessity of diplomacy? In other words, the crude bullying of the weak by the strong became an example of how not to do things.

    Or did the Greeks never learn?

    Thanks, and no they did not. It's striking that people who invented political philosophy were so bad at politics in practice.

    Sparta, the victor of the Pelopennesian War, rapidly made itself as hated as Athens had been. Sparta kept the spoils of the war to itself (a significant mark of disrespect to peer powers like Thebes and Corinth that fought Athens); it launched a war to "liberate" Greek cities under Persian rule, which in practice meant placing them under Spartan governors who fleeced them; then it abandoned them, in favour of becoming Persia's enforcer, in Greece. Sparta's own military power was shattered at the Battle of Leuktra in 371.

    The one major Greek figure who was a skilled diplomat (as well as a skilled general) was Philip II, the father of Alexander the Great. He made a point of wooing his opponents, and offering them generous terms, following defeat. After him, the Macedonians ruled Greece with the same lack of tact as earlier powers had done.

    It was a big "glass jaw" for the Hellenistic monarchies that fought Rome, that in general, they ruled over huge numbers of very unwilling subjects. They could field big armies, but a very high proportion of those armies were used to hold down provinces that would otherwise have revolted.

    The Romans however, very much internalised this lesson. They were (compared to the Greeks), excellent diplomats, who almost always left something on the table for their allies, shared spoils equally with them in war, and took very seriously their obligations to defend them.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,492
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment the only nations the US isn't alienating are Russia and Israel. There is a risk like Athens it could find asserting its will so mercilessly could come back to haunt it if the tide turns against it.

    However despite threats of annexation against Canada and Greenland unlike the ancient Greeks it is economic dominance rather than military dominance and conquest Trump is focused on. Hence his tariffs on so many nations imports to try and rebuild US industry though at the cost of potential cost of living rises.

    The US was already seeing the largest rise in manufacturing investment in years. The consequences of his tariffs are more likely to stall that than they are to help.

    Mostly in hi tech whereas the average Trump voter wants mass manufacturing back
    So how many of these 'average Trump voters' are willing to give up their current jobs/retirement to work minimum wage jobs on an assembly line ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,459
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment the only nations the US isn't alienating are Russia and Israel. There is a risk like Athens it could find asserting its will so mercilessly could come back to haunt it if the tide turns against it.

    However despite threats of annexation against Canada and Greenland unlike the ancient Greeks it is economic dominance rather than military dominance and conquest Trump is focused on. Hence his tariffs on so many nations imports to try and rebuild US industry though at the cost of potential cost of living rises.

    The US was already seeing the largest rise in manufacturing investment in years. The consequences of his tariffs are more likely to stall that than they are to help.

    Mostly in hi tech whereas the average Trump voter wants mass manufacturing back
    What they are getting is self destructive incoherence, instead.

    On April 17th the U.S. Trade Representative's office is expected to impose fees of up to $1.5M per port call for ships made in China and for $500k to $1M if the ocean carrier owns a single ship made in China or even has one on order from a Chinese shipyard...
    https://x.com/typesfast/status/1909362292367802840
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,101
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment the only nations the US isn't alienating are Russia and Israel. There is a risk like Athens it could find asserting its will so mercilessly could come back to haunt it if the tide turns against it.

    However despite threats of annexation against Canada and Greenland unlike the ancient Greeks it is economic dominance rather than military dominance and conquest Trump is focused on. Hence his tariffs on so many nations imports to try and rebuild US industry though at the cost of potential cost of living rises.

    The US was already seeing the largest rise in manufacturing investment in years. The consequences of his tariffs are more likely to stall that than they are to help.

    Mostly in hi tech whereas the average Trump voter wants mass manufacturing back
    Not going to happen. Maybe some manufacturing back, but heavily automated (low workforce) and expensive.
  • FffsFffs Posts: 100
    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    dunham said:

    MattW said:

    Oh. For F**K'S sake.

    The Nobs of Altrincham all need self-driving Teslas because the installation of a short cycle track and pedestrian crossing means that none of them can find the plonking great parish church any more, so the vicar claims that 40% of them have stopped coming. Perhaps only 60% will tolerate fools gladly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1k4n2w9mygo

    What's happened is that 1/3 of the parish have a new crossing so it is no longer cut off by a 10k vehicles a day road, and he has a lovely new active travel route so they can all get to his church without a quarter mile diversion to find a crossing across the bloody main road.

    God save us from whining (*&^^$&*ers.

    (My lovingkindness muscles are under strain, today, after three cars full of police turned up to a minor incident in the local park, whilst other people leave their cars all over the f**cking pavements with ZERO intervention.)

    Personally, I find this new pedestrian crossing over the busy Dunham Road very useful on the walk to my regular place of worship (not St Margaret's Church).
    Thanks for the reply. I had a serious dig into this when the story was first out last year, and the non-attendance was already being blamed on the short cycle lane (before it was actually built iirc - then it was attendance at Christmas services).

    The previous Vicar there was a character - a biker with a Harley that he used for charity fundraising.

    What they actually have (in Church of England "cure of the parish" terms) is a superb new mission / engagement opportunity - 1/3 of their parish area is the other side of the main road and has been cut off since the (estd) 1960s. And they now have a significant route in the new active travel network going past their door and people waiting outside for a minute to cross the road on the pedestrian crossing, and they are now the focus where people will come to cross.

    It's crying out for a carefully designed wayside pulpit, noticeboard and maybe a cafe, and some cycle and mobility aid parking at the church. Plus it's an ideal place for inclusive cycling trials, since they have a sealed path and car park. There is a ready built platform to reach a whole new demographic.

    All the infra and organisations
    exist in Manchester,
    including grants for their
    cycle / mobility aid parking.

    But ... no.

    That's why I'm a little cross
    about it.
    While the actual regular
    Parish church attendees can largely go hang with vastly
    extended journey times and sat nav confusion to
    accommodate these cyclists
    and pedestrian crossing
    If they are regulars they will not need a sat nav for more than a week or two!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,101
    edited April 8
    DavidL said:

    UK suffers "unprecedented" slump in productivity: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/britain-suffers-unprecedented-fall-in-productivity/ar-AA1CuEjn?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=d06ef92cf67d40fe83f42058c08e0692&ei=14

    When are we going to stop pretending that those working from home are actually working?

    Well I work from home most of the time now and I have to record my time. Seems to be working. Although funnily enough I am currently on the train to Glasgow.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,724
    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    dunham said:

    MattW said:

    Oh. For F**K'S sake.

    The Nobs of Altrincham all need self-driving Teslas because the installation of a short cycle track and pedestrian crossing means that none of them can find the plonking great parish church any more, so the vicar claims that 40% of them have stopped coming. Perhaps only 60% will tolerate fools gladly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1k4n2w9mygo

    What's happened is that 1/3 of the parish have a new crossing so it is no longer cut off by a 10k vehicles a day road, and he has a lovely new active travel route so they can all get to his church without a quarter mile diversion to find a crossing across the bloody main road.

    God save us from whining (*&^^$&*ers.

    (My lovingkindness muscles are under strain, today, after three cars full of police turned up to a minor incident in the local park, whilst other people leave their cars all over the f**cking pavements with ZERO intervention.)

    Personally, I find this new pedestrian crossing over the busy Dunham Road very useful on the walk to my regular place of worship (not St Margaret's Church).
    Thanks for the reply. I had a serious dig into this when the story was first out last year, and the non-attendance was already being blamed on the short cycle lane (before it was actually built iirc - then it was attendance at Christmas services).

    The previous Vicar there was a character - a biker with a Harley that he used for charity fundraising.

    What they actually have (in Church of England "cure of the parish" terms) is a superb new mission / engagement opportunity - 1/3 of their parish area is the other side of the main road and has been cut off since the (estd) 1960s. And they now have a significant route in the new active travel network going past their door and people waiting outside for a minute to cross the road on the pedestrian crossing, and they are now the focus where people will come to cross.

    It's crying out for a carefully designed wayside pulpit, noticeboard and maybe a cafe, and some cycle and mobility aid parking at the church. Plus it's an ideal place for inclusive cycling trials, since they have a sealed path and car park. There is a ready built platform to reach a whole new demographic.

    All the infra and organisations
    exist in Manchester,
    including grants for their
    cycle / mobility aid parking.

    But ... no.

    That's why I'm a little cross
    about it.
    While the actual regular
    Parish church attendees can largely go hang with vastly
    extended journey times and sat nav confusion to
    accommodate these cyclists
    and pedestrian crossing
    Was that meant to be a haiku? You’ve lost count of your syllables if so.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,942
    Rule of law update, the case of Garcia, deported without process to an El Salvador prison by USA government 'administrative error', defying a court order allowing him to stay in the USA.

    The judge ordered him to be returned to the USA by the end of 7th April. USA government appealed to SCOTUS who have suspended the judge's order until SCOTUS can hear the matter.

    Capitulation by USA government, or constitutional crisis or lawless tyranny rests on the next steps.

    Bryan Tyler Cohen is following it.

    Tariffs are getting the attention. These cases are even more important.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMAQH_nPuFw
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,046
    DavidL said:

    UK suffers "unprecedented" slump in productivity: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/britain-suffers-unprecedented-fall-in-productivity/ar-AA1CuEjn?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=d06ef92cf67d40fe83f42058c08e0692&ei=14

    When are we going to stop pretending that those working from home are actually working?

    The article suggests the problems are falling oil extraction, lack of investment, and unreliable economic statistics.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,170

    DavidL said:

    UK suffers "unprecedented" slump in productivity: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/britain-suffers-unprecedented-fall-in-productivity/ar-AA1CuEjn?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=d06ef92cf67d40fe83f42058c08e0692&ei=14

    When are we going to stop pretending that those working from home are actually working?

    When pb post counts dip between 9-5?
    The PB post count dips when we go out to put the kettle on or watch Bargain Hunt.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,626
    Sean_F said:

    Excellent piece, Sean. Thank you.

    Am I right in thinking that the famous dictum you quote came to be used ironically, as a lesson in the value and necessity of diplomacy? In other words, the crude bullying of the weak by the strong became an example of how not to do things.

    Or did the Greeks never learn?

    Thanks, and no they did not. It's striking that people who invented political philosophy were so bad at politics in practice.

    Sparta, the victor of the Pelopennesian War, rapidly made itself as hated as Athens had been. Sparta kept the spoils of the war to itself (a significant mark of disrespect to peer powers like Thebes and Corinth that fought Athens); it launched a war to "liberate" Greek cities under Persian rule, which in practice meant placing them under Spartan governors who fleeced them; then it abandoned them, in favour of becoming Persia's enforcer, in Greece. Sparta's own military power was shattered at the Battle of Leuktra in 371.

    The one major Greek figure who was a skilled diplomat (as well as a skilled general) was Philip II, the father of Alexander the Great. He made a point of wooing his opponents, and offering them generous terms, following defeat. After him, the Macedonians ruled Greece with the same lack of tact as earlier powers had done.

    It was a big "glass jaw" for the Hellenistic monarchies that fought Rome, that in general, they ruled over huge numbers of very unwilling subjects. They could field big armies, but a very high proportion of those armies were used to hold down provinces that would otherwise have revolted.

    The Romans however, very much internalised this lesson. They were (compared to the Greeks), excellent diplomats, who almost always left something on the table for their allies, shared spoils equally with them in war, and took very seriously their obligations to defend them.
    Thanks Sean.

    You confirm the impression I have gathered rather late in life that the stereotupe is wrong. It was the Romans who were smart, and the Greeks a bit dumb, at least when it came to conquer and rule.

    Fascinating.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,297
    DavidL said:

    UK suffers "unprecedented" slump in productivity: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/britain-suffers-unprecedented-fall-in-productivity/ar-AA1CuEjn?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=d06ef92cf67d40fe83f42058c08e0692&ei=14

    When are we going to stop pretending that those working from home are actually working?

    Even The Telegraph aren't blaming WFH. The main culprits fingered are lack of investment by businesses and the fall in North Sea oil production- not because of EdM, but because of the lack of oil remaining.

    And nearly all under (Neil Kinnock voice) a Conservative government.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,453
    Tariffs are so great
    the stock market disagrees
    it's your fault, China

    [Playing about with a haiku]
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,046

    DavidL said:

    UK suffers "unprecedented" slump in productivity: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/britain-suffers-unprecedented-fall-in-productivity/ar-AA1CuEjn?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=d06ef92cf67d40fe83f42058c08e0692&ei=14

    When are we going to stop pretending that those working from home are actually working?

    The article suggests the problems are falling oil extraction, lack of investment, and unreliable economic statistics.
    Meanwhile, pro-ID card Labour MPs think the productivity problem is not enough ID cards:-

    The letter calls on the government to revive the idea of ID cards – a hugely controversial policy proposal during Tony Blair’s era – but said digital IDs were the right route for the modern economy. It said it would mean that citizens could “engage with the state more seamlessly”, including booking GP appointments, renewing passports or paying tax.

    It said it would meet the government’s objections of making the state more efficient and crack down on “off-the-books employment, boost lagging public sector productivity, and provide faster, more efficient access to healthcare, welfare and public services”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/apr/08/labour-mps-launch-campaign-to-introduce-digital-ids
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,576
    edited April 8
    DavidL said:

    UK suffers "unprecedented" slump in productivity: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/britain-suffers-unprecedented-fall-in-productivity/ar-AA1CuEjn?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=d06ef92cf67d40fe83f42058c08e0692&ei=14

    When are we going to stop pretending that those working from home are actually working?

    When are we going to stop pretending mass immigration is “essential” for economic growth?

    We’ve had unprecedented immigration for 20 years or more and GDP per capita has been flat and public services have got worse. Mass immigration is a disaster
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,430
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment the only nations the US isn't alienating are Russia and Israel. There is a risk like Athens it could find asserting its will so mercilessly could come back to haunt it if the tide turns against it.

    However despite threats of annexation against Canada and Greenland unlike the ancient Greeks it is economic dominance rather than military dominance and conquest Trump is focused on. Hence his tariffs on so many nations imports to try and rebuild US industry though at the cost of potential cost of living rises.

    The US was already seeing the largest rise in manufacturing investment in years. The consequences of his tariffs are more likely to stall that than they are to help.

    As @rcs1000 has pointed out multiple times, who will make business decisions (except hunker down) as a result of Trump’s trade war?

    Consider an alternative - I want to revive/create an industry. Offer a subsidy per unit of actual production, scaled on domestic content level. Historically the US government (federal, state and even local) has been very reliable about keeping to and paying out such subsidies. Over decades.
    The carrot is more conducive to production that is the carpet bomb, as Thucidydes might have said ?
    More that what businesses value most (after cost - and sometimes even before) is stability.

    Norway has long been a relatively high tax area for oil and gas operations. But their taxes and policies are very stable. So it is easy to work on a 20 year horizon. When I worked in the area, many years ago, everyone liked working on Norwegian projects. They would make a deal and stick to it.
    That characterises Trump's problem quite well.
    Absolutely no one expects him to stick to any deal he might make, ever.

    @Richard_Tyndall who works in the industry has often made this point, too.
    The UK has one of the more unstable tax regimes in the world when it comes to eveloping hydrocarbons.

    Ed Miliband no doubt sees that as a "so what?"
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,942
    Nigelb said:

    They lost.

    U.S. Senator Ted Cruz has made an appearance at the Final Four championship game, despite fans claiming that when the Texas senator attends the game for the team he is rooting for, they are "cursed" and lose the game.
    https://x.com/HoustonChron/status/1909428989338206637

    If he wants to do something useful, could he turn up and shout for Liverpool between now and the end of the season? We are 11 points behind with 7 to play.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,520
    edited April 8

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Incidentally, in the spirit of PB pedantry could I point out that Vance did not serve in the US Army. He was a journalist in the Marine Corps. I have no idea if he has read any Greek classics.

    He also seems to be on board with the Trump 'strategy'.
    You know I really am beat as to what this strategy is, who is truly on board with it, and why.

    I suspect there really is no strategy. Trump is winging it on the basis of the kind of economics espoused by red necked lounge lizards. The rest just nod along because it pays to do so....until it doesn't when they will reverse ferret immediately.
    There are true believers, and for some Trump is in part a useful idiot currently going in their desired direction.

    Have a listen here, especially to the integration of specific political policy with fundamentalist belief, and an identifying of divine aims with 'us'. That elevates policy to be unquestionable. I find that frightening. It starts fairly conventional, but then turns quite sinister - characterising 'woke' as almost a competing religion. 5 minute video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1M3FDegD9E

    "Rev. Dr. Uriesou Brito's prayer, opening the final day of the Washington DC National Conservatism Conference on July 10th, 2024." It's fascinating that the two people he quotes are GK Chesterton and CS Lewis; very USA. He identifies with a concept termed "biblical theocracy", which afaics is evolved Dominionism.

    Imo it is the same for any fundamentalism - whether a version of evangelical here, socialist, free market, nationalist, or any other. Once reflection becomes impossible, you are lost.

    On the feed there are also similar prayers from a Catholic (ex-Anglican) priest and a Rabbi - both are 1-2 minutes and far more conventional.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,450
    HYUFD said:

    At the moment the only nations the US isn't alienating are Russia and Israel. There is a risk like Athens it could find asserting its will so mercilessly could come back to haunt it if the tide turns against it.

    However despite threats of annexation against Canada and Greenland unlike the ancient Greeks it is economic dominance rather than military dominance and conquest Trump is focused on. Hence his tariffs on so many nations imports to try and rebuild US industry though at the cost of potential cost of living rises.

    Like their 19th century counterparts, they’d likely favour conquest on the cheap. Much of the process of annexation was done by armed settlers and militias, rather than the regular army and navy.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,046
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    They lost.

    U.S. Senator Ted Cruz has made an appearance at the Final Four championship game, despite fans claiming that when the Texas senator attends the game for the team he is rooting for, they are "cursed" and lose the game.
    https://x.com/HoustonChron/status/1909428989338206637

    If he wants to do something useful, could he turn up and shout for Liverpool between now and the end of the season? We are 11 points behind with 7 to play.
    And you need a good send-off for all your out-of-contract star players.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,576

    Tariffs are so great
    the stock market disagrees
    it's your fault, China

    [Playing about with a haiku]

    Spring in the city
    The merchants gaze at the stars
    Bears snort, wakening
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,626
    edited April 8
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment the only nations the US isn't alienating are Russia and Israel. There is a risk like Athens it could find asserting its will so mercilessly could come back to haunt it if the tide turns against it.

    However despite threats of annexation against Canada and Greenland unlike the ancient Greeks it is economic dominance rather than military dominance and conquest Trump is focused on. Hence his tariffs on so many nations imports to try and rebuild US industry though at the cost of potential cost of living rises.

    The US was already seeing the largest rise in manufacturing investment in years. The consequences of his tariffs are more likely to stall that than they are to help.

    As @rcs1000 has pointed out multiple times, who will make business decisions (except hunker down) as a result of Trump’s trade war?

    Consider an alternative - I want to revive/create an industry. Offer a subsidy per unit of actual production, scaled on domestic content level. Historically the US government (federal, state and even local) has been very reliable about keeping to and paying out such subsidies. Over decades.
    The carrot is more conducive to production that is the carpet bomb, as Thucidydes might have said ?
    More that what businesses value most (after cost - and sometimes even before) is stability.

    Norway has long been a relatively high tax area for oil and gas operations. But their taxes and policies are very stable. So it is easy to work on a 20 year horizon. When I worked in the area, many years ago, everyone liked working on Norwegian projects. They would make a deal and stick to it.
    That characterises Trump's problem quite well.
    Absolutely no one expects him to stick to any deal he might make, ever.

    @Richard_Tyndall who works in the industry has often made this point, too.
    Do you think other World Leaders are no longer taking him seriously? It is hard, maybe even impossible, to deal sensibly with his capriciousness. Why not just tell him what he wants to hear and then do as you please?

    He's going to finish up in a universe of one.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,450

    DavidL said:

    UK suffers "unprecedented" slump in productivity: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/britain-suffers-unprecedented-fall-in-productivity/ar-AA1CuEjn?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=d06ef92cf67d40fe83f42058c08e0692&ei=14

    When are we going to stop pretending that those working from home are actually working?

    Even The Telegraph aren't blaming WFH. The main culprits fingered are lack of investment by businesses and the fall in North Sea oil production- not because of EdM, but because of the lack of oil remaining.

    And nearly all under (Neil Kinnock voice) a Conservative government.
    Since 2021, however investment has been pretty strong, which will hopefully pay off in the future.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,046
    Teacher who crashed car into tree on way to school after drinking half bottle of wine avoids ban from teaching
    ...
    The experienced teacher told the hearing he was "under stress from work" and had been "self-medicating with alcohol".

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/john-lees-teacher-brookfield-community-school-chesterfield-tree-car-crash/

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,854
    edited April 8
    DavidL said:

    UK suffers "unprecedented" slump in productivity: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/britain-suffers-unprecedented-fall-in-productivity/ar-AA1CuEjn?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=d06ef92cf67d40fe83f42058c08e0692&ei=14

    When are we going to stop pretending that those working from home are actually working?

    Doesn't mention Brexit, which according to the OBR is responsible for a 4% loss of productivity.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,414
    Thanks for a v interesting header @Sean_F

    Trump 2.0 will become the new definition of hubris once all this is over.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,392
    DavidL said:

    UK suffers "unprecedented" slump in productivity: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/britain-suffers-unprecedented-fall-in-productivity/ar-AA1CuEjn?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=d06ef92cf67d40fe83f42058c08e0692&ei=14

    When are we going to stop pretending that those working from home are actually working?

    When are we going to stop propping up dead city centres?
    When are we going to stop subsidising minimum wage jobs that can be automated?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,450

    Sean_F said:

    Excellent piece, Sean. Thank you.

    Am I right in thinking that the famous dictum you quote came to be used ironically, as a lesson in the value and necessity of diplomacy? In other words, the crude bullying of the weak by the strong became an example of how not to do things.

    Or did the Greeks never learn?

    Thanks, and no they did not. It's striking that people who invented political philosophy were so bad at politics in practice.

    Sparta, the victor of the Pelopennesian War, rapidly made itself as hated as Athens had been. Sparta kept the spoils of the war to itself (a significant mark of disrespect to peer powers like Thebes and Corinth that fought Athens); it launched a war to "liberate" Greek cities under Persian rule, which in practice meant placing them under Spartan governors who fleeced them; then it abandoned them, in favour of becoming Persia's enforcer, in Greece. Sparta's own military power was shattered at the Battle of Leuktra in 371.

    The one major Greek figure who was a skilled diplomat (as well as a skilled general) was Philip II, the father of Alexander the Great. He made a point of wooing his opponents, and offering them generous terms, following defeat. After him, the Macedonians ruled Greece with the same lack of tact as earlier powers had done.

    It was a big "glass jaw" for the Hellenistic monarchies that fought Rome, that in general, they ruled over huge numbers of very unwilling subjects. They could field big armies, but a very high proportion of those armies were used to hold down provinces that would otherwise have revolted.

    The Romans however, very much internalised this lesson. They were (compared to the Greeks), excellent diplomats, who almost always left something on the table for their allies, shared spoils equally with them in war, and took very seriously their obligations to defend them.
    Thanks Sean.

    You confirm the impression I have gathered rather late in life that the stereotupe is wrong. It was the Romans who were smart, and the Greeks a bit dumb, at least when it came to conquer and rule.

    Fascinating.
    The Romans lagged the Greeks in terms of the arts, philosophy, mathematics, and speculative thinking.

    In terms of law, political science, logistics, and military science, they were in a completely different league.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,450

    Good morning

    A very good header and much appreciated @Sean_F

    Many thanks.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,450
    MattW said:

    Thank-you for the header, and good morning everyone.

    I've been reflecting on an analogy to Stalin's concept of "Socialism in One Country" (ie Plan B when world revolution failed to happen), and if "Capitalism in One Country" is viable - I suspect not, Professier Moriarty.

    The last time I heard Socialism in One Country advocated was pre-Gorbachev, from the lecturer chaperoning a group of exchange students from Leningrad in 1987.

    I wonder how many lessons we need to draw with respect to the USA, from how we maintained a world trading economy when the USSR was around? And when will Trump's USA's version of 1991 be?

    Many thanks.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,414
    Dead cat bounce day?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,450

    Good article, Mr. F. The Athenians could've had a much better deal with the Spartans midway through the war, but hubris carried them away, and nemesis wasn't far behind.

    Athens never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,450

    On topic, thanks for this Sean.

    @Morris_Dancer, if you're struggling to understand some of the historical references in this piece then do not be afraid to reach out and ask, I will be more than happy to explain them to you.

    Many thanks
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,450
    @Foxy Vance reads the Iliad and Odyssey so I should think he’s well-versed in the classics.

    But, one can learn the wrong lessons from history, eg the veneration of The Spartan Way.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,050
    On topic. "Hey, we have the World's reserve currency. Let's torch it !"

    @faisalislam

    Author of Mar A Lago accord concept that US tariff agenda is basically designed to cause negotiated dollar weakening, (now WH chief economist), gave speech yday which basically suggested that reserve status for dollar was a burden which others might need to “write checks” for

    turns on its head the famous description of ex French President then fin minister Valéry Giscard d'Estaing the US enjoyed an “exorbitant privilege” with $ reserve status…

    Instead Administration appears to believe this is an exorbitant burden for which US should be remunerated.

    It’s part of a narrative that seeks to paint new tariffs (accepted without retaliation) as justifiable payment for burden of strong dollar (eg on US manufacturing exports and jobs)… this new mindset is extremely consequential. The tariffs aren’t going.

    https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1909513038341799937
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,453
    Sean_F said:

    @Foxy Vance reads the Iliad and Odyssey so I should think he’s well-versed in the classics.

    But, one can learn the wrong lessons from history, eg the veneration of The Spartan Way.

    You say that... but Spartan social and political structures naturally led to a declining citizen class (and, therefore, army), weakening Sparta due to poor policy.

    Surely you must concede that the current US administration has taken this lesson to heart?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,278

    So Strava's sent me a message to say I have the third-fastest run time on a segment (part of a route).

    Feeling rather proud, I logged in to see. And indeed, I was third fastest. On a segment on a new road.

    That only three people had run along.

    I'll still take that as a win. :)

    Fantastic. That reminds me that I must visit those new Cambridge train stations sometime.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,632
    Very interesting header. Thank you @Sean_F.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,148
    ...

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,942
    Sean_F said:

    Good article, Mr. F. The Athenians could've had a much better deal with the Spartans midway through the war, but hubris carried them away, and nemesis wasn't far behind.

    Athens never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
    OTOH though it's fashionable, rightly, to emphasise the other sources of our civilization beyond the Greeks (and Jerusalem), if you took out Aristotle, Plato, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Homer, post Alexander Hellenism, the Greek speaking Eastern Empire, Thucydides, Herodotus and one or two others from our past there would be some gaps, and we would be a completely different people.

    (On the plus side, the architecture of Edinburgh would be less gloomy).
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,597
    DavidL said:

    UK suffers "unprecedented" slump in productivity: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/britain-suffers-unprecedented-fall-in-productivity/ar-AA1CuEjn?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=d06ef92cf67d40fe83f42058c08e0692&ei=14

    When are we going to stop pretending that those working from home are actually working?

    I'm reading this from the office...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,597

    DavidL said:

    UK suffers "unprecedented" slump in productivity: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/britain-suffers-unprecedented-fall-in-productivity/ar-AA1CuEjn?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=d06ef92cf67d40fe83f42058c08e0692&ei=14

    When are we going to stop pretending that those working from home are actually working?

    The article suggests the problems are falling oil extraction, lack of investment, and unreliable economic statistics.
    Well, you've got to admit that oil extraction from home tends to produce low yields.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,597

    Tariffs are so great
    the stock market disagrees
    it's your fault, China

    [Playing about with a haiku]

    You're meant to have a reference to the season in there too. Something about the spring, maybe via an allusion to blossom.
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