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I think the public may not be fans of Rachel Reeves – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,391
edited April 1 in General
I think the public may not be fans of Rachel Reeves – politicalbetting.com

Net approval of the government's managing of the cost of living has fallen to -69, lower than the -59 when the Conservatives left office last JulyWell: 12% (-6 vs 28 Jun-1 Jul 2024)Badly: 81% (+4)Net: -69 (-10)yougov.co.uk/politics/art…

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Comments

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,627
    Last like Reeves
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,435
    eek said:

    Until the Treasury is forced to bin the Green Book and a government starts to properly invest in the infrastructure a country with X million more people in it than 20 years ago needs - all Chancellors are going to look useless..

    What sort of infrastructure have you in mind?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,756
    edited April 1
    Basing the government's spending on forecast growth in 5 years time is nonsense on stilts. No one believes the forecasts.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,756

    We all know that Labour were given a hospital pass by the Tories. The economy in bits, public services an underfunded shambles and local government on the brink of collapse.

    We should not allow the Tories to get away from the grotesque mess they made.

    But - and its a big but - Labour have shown themselves to lacking in ideas and now trapped by treasury orthodoxy which insists that the way to restart an economy on its knees is cut some more, to fix public services is to break them harder, the way to restore confidence is make everyone depressed.

    This is stupid. You cannot cut your way to growth. We need to invest.

    The public haven't forgiven the Tories, Badenoch polls nearly as badly as Reeves.

    Labour won't get re-elected by pretending to be Reform. It doesn't convince the Refukkers and misses off their own support.

    The only way for Labour to win is to dump Starmer and Reeves before the damage is irreparable.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,435
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Until the Treasury is forced to bin the Green Book and a government starts to properly invest in the infrastructure a country with X million more people in it than 20 years ago needs - all Chancellors are going to look useless..

    What sort of infrastructure have you in mind?
    Bat tunnels and carbon capture.
    Possibly in a combined system.
    :lol:
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,559
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Until the Treasury is forced to bin the Green Book and a government starts to properly invest in the infrastructure a country with X million more people in it than 20 years ago needs - all Chancellors are going to look useless..

    What sort of infrastructure have you in mind?
    Bat tunnels and carbon capture.
    Possibly in a combined system.
    It takes a long time to compress a tunnel full of bats into half a gallon of crude oil but at least it's more predictable than the 2029 GDP.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,123
    First.
    To go off topic.

    No one watch the documentary Twitter: Breaking the Bird last night?
    It fulfilled the basic rule of talking to the people that were there who were pretty straight talking, albeit I daresay with their own agendas. I’d say the Musk era is just a continuation of the general weirdness & chaos of the project rather than a break. Jack Dorsey (who didn’t agree to be interviewed) bears a lot of responsibility imo. He seems to have spent years in a tantric trance while everything went to shit.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,825

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Until the Treasury is forced to bin the Green Book and a government starts to properly invest in the infrastructure a country with X million more people in it than 20 years ago needs - all Chancellors are going to look useless..

    What sort of infrastructure have you in mind?
    Bat tunnels and carbon capture.
    Possibly in a combined system.
    It takes a long time to compress a tunnel full of bats into half a gallon of crude oil but at least it's more predictable than the 2029 GDP.
    Cut the time down by combining it with my thermonuclear powered internal combustion engine for energy generation.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,491

    eek said:

    Until the Treasury is forced to bin the Green Book and a government starts to properly invest in the infrastructure a country with X million more people in it than 20 years ago needs - all Chancellors are going to look useless..

    What sort of infrastructure have you in mind?
    Take your pick

    SMR are essential for energy and we should be 5 years towards building them.
    Ideally Manchester, Birmingham should be getting proper underground metro lines to add their expansion.
    Some additional rail before the WCML grinds to a halt - both the WCML and ECML are at capacity.

    Oh and a shed ton of housing.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,821

    Statue of Margaret Thatcher to be installed at Liverpool's Royal Albert Dock on 13th October this year, commemorating the centenary of her birth.



    https://x.com/MrsMThatcher/status/1906950777853104416/photo/1

    Nice one, just giving a moment's pause before remembering the date; and even then, in Trump world, nothing is impossible. Perhaps Derek Hatton commissioned it.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,915

    We all know that Labour were given a hospital pass by the Tories. The economy in bits, public services an underfunded shambles and local government on the brink of collapse.

    We should not allow the Tories to get away from the grotesque mess they made.

    But - and its a big but - Labour have shown themselves to lacking in ideas and now trapped by treasury orthodoxy which insists that the way to restart an economy on its knees is cut some more, to fix public services is to break them harder, the way to restore confidence is make everyone depressed.

    This is stupid. You cannot cut your way to growth. We need to invest.

    There isn't go to be any growth, we need to share around what we have.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,222
    eek said:

    Until the Treasury is forced to bin the Green Book and a government starts to properly invest in the infrastructure a country with X million more people in it than 20 years ago needs - all Chancellors are going to look useless..

    Though as Osborne is fond of pointing out, the Tory chancellors do at least have the advantage that "cut cut cut" is in alignment with their and their party's ideological views rather than completely crosswise to them...
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,270
    I think I’ve likely made my views on Reeves well known but I think the perception of her has now been baked in with the public and it will be exceptionally difficult (though not impossible) for her to turn it around. I think she is one of the biggest reasons why they are struggling to improve on their polling position.

    Her errors are well documented but bear repeating - the WFA cut looked to many to be a miserly and unhelpful first step of a new Labour government; the months of doom and gloom helped contribute to a wider malaise; the stupid tax pledge and their unwillingness to stick a penny on income tax led to a budget that tied them into policy contortions and dented business confidence; the headroom gambled on a more benign economic outlook which was irresponsible when it was a coin toss at the time that a second Trump presidency was looming; and now she’s been forced into disability benefit changes which I suspect seemed popular on paper but when they bite will be considered unfair.

    It is hard to think of a worse performance from a chancellor in year 1, whatever the inheritance (other than Kwasi, which doesn’t really need to be said). You can disagree with Osborne’s methods, but he was able to control the narrative for his cuts.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,153

    Statue of Margaret Thatcher to be installed at Liverpool's Royal Albert Dock on 13th October this year, commemorating the centenary of her birth.



    https://x.com/MrsMThatcher/status/1906950777853104416/photo/1

    That’s a good one.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,559
    algarkirk said:

    Statue of Margaret Thatcher to be installed at Liverpool's Royal Albert Dock on 13th October this year, commemorating the centenary of her birth.



    https://x.com/MrsMThatcher/status/1906950777853104416/photo/1

    Nice one, just giving a moment's pause before remembering the date; and even then, in Trump world, nothing is impossible. Perhaps Derek Hatton commissioned it.
    JFDI. Give the Scousers a bit of culture to enjoy.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,153
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Until the Treasury is forced to bin the Green Book and a government starts to properly invest in the infrastructure a country with X million more people in it than 20 years ago needs - all Chancellors are going to look useless..

    What sort of infrastructure have you in mind?
    Take your pick

    SMR are essential for energy and we should be 5 years towards building them.
    Ideally Manchester, Birmingham should be getting proper underground metro lines to add their expansion.
    Some additional rail before the WCML grinds to a halt - both the WCML and ECML are at capacity.

    Oh and a shed ton of housing.
    In the North East we could do with expansion of the Metro, dualling the A1, committing the funding needed to complete the Tyne bridge rework and to knock down the Gateshead flyover.

    Possibly reopening the Leamside line too.

    I’m not sure what the delays are with the supposed new arena in Gateshead to replace the Utilita.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,220
    Taz said:

    Statue of Margaret Thatcher to be installed at Liverpool's Royal Albert Dock on 13th October this year, commemorating the centenary of her birth.



    https://x.com/MrsMThatcher/status/1906950777853104416/photo/1

    That’s a good one.
    Nah. Should be Heseltine being remembered - for dragging Liverpool up from the state of the hell hole it was before he fixed it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,153

    First.
    To go off topic.

    No one watch the documentary Twitter: Breaking the Bird last night?
    It fulfilled the basic rule of talking to the people that were there who were pretty straight talking, albeit I daresay with their own agendas. I’d say the Musk era is just a continuation of the general weirdness & chaos of the project rather than a break. Jack Dorsey (who didn’t agree to be interviewed) bears a lot of responsibility imo. He seems to have spent years in a tantric trance while everything went to shit.

    What channel ?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,627

    I think I’ve likely made my views on Reeves well known but I think the perception of her has now been baked in with the public and it will be exceptionally difficult (though not impossible) for her to turn it around. I think she is one of the biggest reasons why they are struggling to improve on their polling position.

    Her errors are well documented but bear repeating - the WFA cut looked to many to be a miserly and unhelpful first step of a new Labour government; the months of doom and gloom helped contribute to a wider malaise; the stupid tax pledge and their unwillingness to stick a penny on income tax led to a budget that tied them into policy contortions and dented business confidence; the headroom gambled on a more benign economic outlook which was irresponsible when it was a coin toss at the time that a second Trump presidency was looming; and now she’s been forced into disability benefit changes which I suspect seemed popular on paper but when they bite will be considered unfair.

    It is hard to think of a worse performance from a chancellor in year 1, whatever the inheritance (other than Kwasi, which doesn’t really need to be said). You can disagree with Osborne’s methods, but he was able to control the narrative for his cuts.

    Indeed - but there is a clear reason for that.

    Osborne wanted the cuts. They were policy, and politically allowed the Tories to hang the mess around Labour's neck.

    Reeves doesn't want the cuts. They are orthodoxy and as such the mess being generated is being hung around Labour's neck.

    As @Foxy pointed out, the Tories won't benefit from this. The only winner is Farage.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,220

    algarkirk said:

    Statue of Margaret Thatcher to be installed at Liverpool's Royal Albert Dock on 13th October this year, commemorating the centenary of her birth.



    https://x.com/MrsMThatcher/status/1906950777853104416/photo/1

    Nice one, just giving a moment's pause before remembering the date; and even then, in Trump world, nothing is impossible. Perhaps Derek Hatton commissioned it.
    JFDI. Give the Scousers a bit of culture to enjoy.
    "Flamethrower, nitric acid or liquid nitrogen and a hammer, Sir?"
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,123
    This is a crap April fool, no way the most moral army in the would slaughter 15 unarmed medics & aid workers then cover it up.

    https://x.com/mazzucatom/status/1906824385446764802?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,153

    eek said:

    Until the Treasury is forced to bin the Green Book and a government starts to properly invest in the infrastructure a country with X million more people in it than 20 years ago needs - all Chancellors are going to look useless..

    What sort of infrastructure have you in mind?
    Its a long list:

    Our two great crises are housing and energy - they have collapsed living standards for so many.

    We need to build swathes of houses - gut the derelict centres of dead towns and rebuild them. Anywhere that Travelling Turnip has done a video? Compulsory purchase, flatten, rebuild. Can't have the private sector build tiny "executive style" houses at daft prices, build housing association property, set a living rent, screw the rentier market for good.
    And where you can't gut and rebuild we go for new towns.
    Transport - road and rail connectivity to link all these places up

    We don't generate enough power and we're lunatic enough to link the cost of wind energy to gas prices from places we don't buy from. Disconnect as Spain have done. SMR reactors, wind, solar and tidal which is built here. And the power interconnects to transmit the power.

    Two major programs which invest to deliver both a return on the investment, and to drive economic growth by smashing the shackles which have chained our economy to the prison wall.
    I agree on building houses/homes but we have to realistic as to what we can do short term as we do not have the workforce at the moment

    At least the govt have recognised this with regards their funding for apprentices.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,153

    We all know that Labour were given a hospital pass by the Tories. The economy in bits, public services an underfunded shambles and local government on the brink of collapse.

    We should not allow the Tories to get away from the grotesque mess they made.

    But - and its a big but - Labour have shown themselves to lacking in ideas and now trapped by treasury orthodoxy which insists that the way to restart an economy on its knees is cut some more, to fix public services is to break them harder, the way to restore confidence is make everyone depressed.

    This is stupid. You cannot cut your way to growth. We need to invest.

    Labours error was boxing themselves in by ruling out certain tax rises instead of saying ‘no plans’ to raise. They should have immeditately reversed the NI cuts and scrapped the triple lock. They’d have five years to ride it out.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,123
    edited April 1
    Taz said:

    First.
    To go off topic.

    No one watch the documentary Twitter: Breaking the Bird last night?
    It fulfilled the basic rule of talking to the people that were there who were pretty straight talking, albeit I daresay with their own agendas. I’d say the Musk era is just a continuation of the general weirdness & chaos of the project rather than a break. Jack Dorsey (who didn’t agree to be interviewed) bears a lot of responsibility imo. He seems to have spent years in a tantric trance while everything went to shit.

    What channel ?
    BBC 2. It’s on iplayer now but is to be repeated on Friday 23:05.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0029m2t
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,357
    Taz said:

    First.
    To go off topic.

    No one watch the documentary Twitter: Breaking the Bird last night?
    It fulfilled the basic rule of talking to the people that were there who were pretty straight talking, albeit I daresay with their own agendas. I’d say the Musk era is just a continuation of the general weirdness & chaos of the project rather than a break. Jack Dorsey (who didn’t agree to be interviewed) bears a lot of responsibility imo. He seems to have spent years in a tantric trance while everything went to shit.

    What channel ?
    BBC
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,496
    This is the best April Fool's joke:

    https://x.com/danroan/status/1906785356349153621

    @danroan
    Chelsea turn £90m loss into £128m profit after sale of women's team to their own parent company.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,883
    edited April 1
    Good morning

    We seem to be nearing Kwasi Kwarteng's lows but at least both him and Truss were removed within weeks

    I know today's date but the combined price increases across the board from today entirely wipe out the triple lock by some margin

    Now for us we are fortunate as we can afford it, but a large number of both the working and retired will be struggling and are unlikely to improve their opinion of this government anytime soon.

    And tariffs from tomorrow, goodness me we are living in an unpredictable and ever changing world with so many unknown outcomes

    I understand Trump, Putin and Orban have attacked the French judicial system over Le Pen, and it seems we now have extremely powerful and dangerous world leaders fementing disarray and disruption the likes of which has not been seen since WW2

    Anyway off for my annual check to see if my pacemaker is working - fingers crossed
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,821

    Statue of Margaret Thatcher to be installed at Liverpool's Royal Albert Dock on 13th October this year, commemorating the centenary of her birth.



    https://x.com/MrsMThatcher/status/1906950777853104416/photo/1

    Better looking in every way, on April Fools Day or any other is this version of Liverpool Docks to be found in York Art Gallery, a fairly recent acquisition. Worth a visit for this alone:

    https://www.friendsofyorkartgallery.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Liverpool-Docks-at-Night-by-J-Atkinson-Grimshaw.pdf
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,162
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Until the Treasury is forced to bin the Green Book and a government starts to properly invest in the infrastructure a country with X million more people in it than 20 years ago needs - all Chancellors are going to look useless..

    What sort of infrastructure have you in mind?
    Its a long list:

    Our two great crises are housing and energy - they have collapsed living standards for so many.

    We need to build swathes of houses - gut the derelict centres of dead towns and rebuild them. Anywhere that Travelling Turnip has done a video? Compulsory purchase, flatten, rebuild. Can't have the private sector build tiny "executive style" houses at daft prices, build housing association property, set a living rent, screw the rentier market for good.
    And where you can't gut and rebuild we go for new towns.
    Transport - road and rail connectivity to link all these places up

    We don't generate enough power and we're lunatic enough to link the cost of wind energy to gas prices from places we don't buy from. Disconnect as Spain have done. SMR reactors, wind, solar and tidal which is built here. And the power interconnects to transmit the power.

    Two major programs which invest to deliver both a return on the investment, and to drive economic growth by smashing the shackles which have chained our economy to the prison wall.
    I agree on building houses/homes but we have to realistic as to what we can do short term as we do not have the workforce at the moment

    At least the govt have recognised this with regards their funding for apprentices.
    Which goes back to the "1/3, better than the last lot" version of this government. If you accept the constraints on them, they are probably doing the right sorts of things for the medium term. Perhaps as much as they can do without doing harm. Maybe slower than ideal, but the logic is there.

    But in the short term, the country and the government are less rich than we have spent decades assuming. There are choices about how to distribute the resulting pain, but no honest chancellor would be popular now.

    Hangovers, as I've said before, aren't meant to be fun.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,035
    On the header: basically today's despatch from One Term News.

    Cost of living did for Biden and it will do for Starmer. Although has three years to turn it around.

    As far as we can see - Biden just didn't get it at all during his tenure because the actual economic stats looked good.

    But as the famous focus group response said: "that's your GDP, not mine."

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,035
    My water bill is up 17% as of today.


  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 253
    That maggie statue would make good hostile vehicle mitigation.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,270

    On the header: basically today's despatch from One Term News.

    Cost of living did for Biden and it will do for Starmer. Although has three years to turn it around.

    As far as we can see - Biden just didn't get it at all during his tenure because the actual economic stats looked good.

    But as the famous focus group response said: "that's your GDP, not mine."

    A reason why talking about “growth” doesn’t help in and of itself.

    Yes we need more growth, but Labour arent articulating what growth means to them. (Hint: “more money for public services” isn’t a vision).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,879
    ...

    My water bill is up 17% as of today.


    Shareholder bonuses don't come cheap you know.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,220
    The Tories got the REAL hospital pass: Covid into Ukraine into Cost of Living Crisis.

    Lord alone knows how Reeves would have managed that triple whammy.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,153

    On the header: basically today's despatch from One Term News.

    Cost of living did for Biden and it will do for Starmer. Although has three years to turn it around.

    As far as we can see - Biden just didn't get it at all during his tenure because the actual economic stats looked good.

    But as the famous focus group response said: "that's your GDP, not mine."

    Indeed, a town hall in Newcastle during Brexit IIRC
  • eekeek Posts: 29,491
    tlg86 said:

    This is the best April Fool's joke:

    https://x.com/danroan/status/1906785356349153621

    @danroan
    Chelsea turn £90m loss into £128m profit after sale of women's team to their own parent company.

    I would love to know how they are going to game the system this year - they've got nothing left to sell having sold the hotels last time round..
  • eekeek Posts: 29,491
    Taz said:

    We all know that Labour were given a hospital pass by the Tories. The economy in bits, public services an underfunded shambles and local government on the brink of collapse.

    We should not allow the Tories to get away from the grotesque mess they made.

    But - and its a big but - Labour have shown themselves to lacking in ideas and now trapped by treasury orthodoxy which insists that the way to restart an economy on its knees is cut some more, to fix public services is to break them harder, the way to restore confidence is make everyone depressed.

    This is stupid. You cannot cut your way to growth. We need to invest.

    Labours error was boxing themselves in by ruling out certain tax rises instead of saying ‘no plans’ to raise. They should have immeditately reversed the NI cuts and scrapped the triple lock. They’d have five years to ride it out.
    It would have been forgotten after a year - which is why it was so f*** stupid.

  • eekeek Posts: 29,491
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Until the Treasury is forced to bin the Green Book and a government starts to properly invest in the infrastructure a country with X million more people in it than 20 years ago needs - all Chancellors are going to look useless..

    What sort of infrastructure have you in mind?
    Take your pick

    SMR are essential for energy and we should be 5 years towards building them.
    Ideally Manchester, Birmingham should be getting proper underground metro lines to add their expansion.
    Some additional rail before the WCML grinds to a halt - both the WCML and ECML are at capacity.

    Oh and a shed ton of housing.
    In the North East we could do with expansion of the Metro, dualling the A1, committing the funding needed to complete the Tyne bridge rework and to knock down the Gateshead flyover.

    Possibly reopening the Leamside line too.

    I’m not sure what the delays are with the supposed new arena in Gateshead to replace the Utilita.
    Lack of private money for that - planning has been granted - heck Sage even paid for the glasshouse to be renamed to avoid any potential confusion.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,153

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Until the Treasury is forced to bin the Green Book and a government starts to properly invest in the infrastructure a country with X million more people in it than 20 years ago needs - all Chancellors are going to look useless..

    What sort of infrastructure have you in mind?
    Its a long list:

    Our two great crises are housing and energy - they have collapsed living standards for so many.

    We need to build swathes of houses - gut the derelict centres of dead towns and rebuild them. Anywhere that Travelling Turnip has done a video? Compulsory purchase, flatten, rebuild. Can't have the private sector build tiny "executive style" houses at daft prices, build housing association property, set a living rent, screw the rentier market for good.
    And where you can't gut and rebuild we go for new towns.
    Transport - road and rail connectivity to link all these places up

    We don't generate enough power and we're lunatic enough to link the cost of wind energy to gas prices from places we don't buy from. Disconnect as Spain have done. SMR reactors, wind, solar and tidal which is built here. And the power interconnects to transmit the power.

    Two major programs which invest to deliver both a return on the investment, and to drive economic growth by smashing the shackles which have chained our economy to the prison wall.
    I agree on building houses/homes but we have to realistic as to what we can do short term as we do not have the workforce at the moment

    At least the govt have recognised this with regards their funding for apprentices.
    Which goes back to the "1/3, better than the last lot" version of this government. If you accept the constraints on them, they are probably doing the right sorts of things for the medium term. Perhaps as much as they can do without doing harm. Maybe slower than ideal, but the logic is there.

    But in the short term, the country and the government are less rich than we have spent decades assuming. There are choices about how to distribute the resulting pain, but no honest chancellor would be popular now.

    Hangovers, as I've said before, aren't meant to be fun.
    Now I may say this as a Labour voter but I have said previously that since the start of the year there are certainly signs os Starmer growing into the role and the govt getting what they need to do.

    There are still some bumpy issues ahead such as the workers rights bill which won’t be good for business or growth but if we can weather the next ten months things may just start to get better going into the last half of this parliament.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,879
    edited April 1

    The Tories got the REAL hospital pass: Covid into Ukraine into Cost of Living Crisis.

    Lord alone knows how Reeves would have managed that triple whammy.

    You missed out Boris Johnson and Brexit.

    Oh and I almost forgot the Autumn 2022 "most impressive Conservative budget since records began"* according to Nigel Farage.

    * My précis.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,453
    edited April 1

    We all know that Labour were given a hospital pass by the Tories. The economy in bits, public services an underfunded shambles and local government on the brink of collapse.

    We should not allow the Tories to get away from the grotesque mess they made.

    But - and its a big but - Labour have shown themselves to lacking in ideas and now trapped by treasury orthodoxy which insists that the way to restart an economy on its knees is cut some more, to fix public services is to break them harder, the way to restore confidence is make everyone depressed.

    This is stupid. You cannot cut your way to growth. We need to invest.

    No, we need to facilitate private sector investment and growth.

    Government is brilliant at investing in crap - politically dictated projects that make no economic sense, from Concorde to HS2 to ...

    On energy it should be encouraging, not preventing, the private sector to exploit our hydrocarbon reserves.

    On transportation, it should be building the projects that will boost the economy the most, which are generally roads in and around London, rather than the dismal disaster of HS2.

    On housing, the government should be facilitating private sector self-build.

    It should be cutting business regulation and taxes, and if necessary increasing taxes like VAT which harm economic growth much less, as Mrs Thatcher did in her first term.

    Etc etc.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,390

    The Tories got the REAL hospital pass: Covid into Ukraine into Cost of Living Crisis.

    Lord alone knows how Reeves would have managed that triple whammy.

    Furlough payments and energy support would have been delayed for four months as Reeves would have asked the OBR to model the effects before introducing them.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,969

    Eck lives!
    WIfey thought I was April fooling when I opened the bedroom shutters and said "blue sky with saltire in the east".
  • eekeek Posts: 29,491

    I've decided to join the Labour Party.

    They are better at implementing centre-right policies than the Conservatives, who are incompetent; the key thing for me is keeping a sensible government in office, and Reform would be a dangerous car crash.

    *checks the date*
    The problem is every part of his statement is true...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,390

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Until the Treasury is forced to bin the Green Book and a government starts to properly invest in the infrastructure a country with X million more people in it than 20 years ago needs - all Chancellors are going to look useless..

    What sort of infrastructure have you in mind?
    Its a long list:

    Our two great crises are housing and energy - they have collapsed living standards for so many.

    We need to build swathes of houses - gut the derelict centres of dead towns and rebuild them. Anywhere that Travelling Turnip has done a video? Compulsory purchase, flatten, rebuild. Can't have the private sector build tiny "executive style" houses at daft prices, build housing association property, set a living rent, screw the rentier market for good.
    And where you can't gut and rebuild we go for new towns.
    Transport - road and rail connectivity to link all these places up

    We don't generate enough power and we're lunatic enough to link the cost of wind energy to gas prices from places we don't buy from. Disconnect as Spain have done. SMR reactors, wind, solar and tidal which is built here. And the power interconnects to transmit the power.

    Two major programs which invest to deliver both a return on the investment, and to drive economic growth by smashing the shackles which have chained our economy to the prison wall.
    I agree on building houses/homes but we have to realistic as to what we can do short term as we do not have the workforce at the moment

    At least the govt have recognised this with regards their funding for apprentices.
    Which goes back to the "1/3, better than the last lot" version of this government. If you accept the constraints on them, they are probably doing the right sorts of things for the medium term. Perhaps as much as they can do without doing harm. Maybe slower than ideal, but the logic is there.

    But in the short term, the country and the government are less rich than we have spent decades assuming. There are choices about how to distribute the resulting pain, but no honest chancellor would be popular now.

    Hangovers, as I've said before, aren't meant to be fun.
    In a way Reeves is having to deal with the consequences of Gordon Brown's trade deficits don't matter, rising house prices are better than rising home ownership, welfare consumerist economy.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,047
    tlg86 said:

    This is the best April Fool's joke:

    https://x.com/danroan/status/1906785356349153621

    @danroan
    Chelsea turn £90m loss into £128m profit after sale of women's team to their own parent company.

    They won’t win any other prizes this season but they’ve got the golden calculator award in the bag for best financial tactics.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,627

    The Tories got the REAL hospital pass: Covid into Ukraine into Cost of Living Crisis.

    Lord alone knows how Reeves would have managed that triple whammy.

    The Tories got a hospital pass from... the Tories?
    Covid - once in a century genuine crisis. A literal hospital pass to be fair
    Ukraine - two crises. The military one? Can't see Starmer treating it differently. Energy? We were chained to Russian energy in part thanks to a PM who was bezzies with oligarchs
    Cost of Living Crisis - Housing (Tories fault) and Energy (Tories fault)

    Even this week the Tories are on the move in Parliament, standing up for the rentier class and against normal people.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,111

    eek said:

    Until the Treasury is forced to bin the Green Book and a government starts to properly invest in the infrastructure a country with X million more people in it than 20 years ago needs - all Chancellors are going to look useless..

    What sort of infrastructure have you in mind?
    Its a long list:

    Our two great crises are housing and energy - they have collapsed living standards for so many.

    We need to build swathes of houses - gut the derelict centres of dead towns and rebuild them. Anywhere that Travelling Turnip has done a video? Compulsory purchase, flatten, rebuild. Can't have the private sector build tiny "executive style" houses at daft prices, build housing association property, set a living rent, screw the rentier market for good.
    And where you can't gut and rebuild we go for new towns.
    Transport - road and rail connectivity to link all these places up

    We don't generate enough power and we're lunatic enough to link the cost of wind energy to gas prices from places we don't buy from. Disconnect as Spain have done. SMR reactors, wind, solar and tidal which is built here. And the power interconnects to transmit the power.

    Two major programs which invest to deliver both a return on the investment, and to drive economic growth by smashing the shackles which have chained our economy to the prison wall.
    On power:

    My local power station, Little Barford CCGT, opened in 1996 and is essentially life-expired. (*). The most cost-effective thing to do would be to close the power station and build a new plant. The government want it to keep running, but apparently will not allow it to be rebuilt. So instead costly upgrades need to be done to an unreliable plant. The worst of both worlds.

    This will increasingly become a problem if the government does not readily allow existing CCGT plants to be replaced.

    JFDI.

    (*) It's predecessors on the site worked for 40 and 30 years respectively.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,123
    geoffw said:


    Eck lives!
    WIfey thought I was April fooling when I opened the bedroom shutters and said "blue sky with saltire in the east".

    Chemtrails!
    The Scotch ones are the worst, they make the sheeple stubbornly vote Nat.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,491
    edited April 1
    Fishing said:

    We all know that Labour were given a hospital pass by the Tories. The economy in bits, public services an underfunded shambles and local government on the brink of collapse.

    We should not allow the Tories to get away from the grotesque mess they made.

    But - and its a big but - Labour have shown themselves to lacking in ideas and now trapped by treasury orthodoxy which insists that the way to restart an economy on its knees is cut some more, to fix public services is to break them harder, the way to restore confidence is make everyone depressed.

    This is stupid. You cannot cut your way to growth. We need to invest.

    No, we need to facilitate private sector investment and growth.

    Government is brilliant at investing in crap - politically dictated projects that make no economic sense, from Concorde to HS2 to ...

    On energy it should be encouraging, not preventing, the private sector to exploit our hydrocarbon reserves.

    On transportation, it should be building the projects that will boost the economy the most, which are generally roads in and around London, rather than the dismal disaster of HS2.

    On housing, the government should be facilitating private sector self-build.

    It should be cutting business regulation and taxes, and if necessary increasing taxes like VAT which harm economic growth much less, as Mrs Thatcher did in her first term.

    Etc etc.
    HS2 is only a disaster because I will repeat this for the thousandth time

    1) the Government didn't leave them alone to build it
    2) the requirements were gold plated on top of diamond encrusted gold
    3) in the case of Euston 3 different projects (HS2, fixing TfL's station, the tunnel to Euston) have all been put into the HS2 pot.
    4) the economic model ignores all journeys that aren't to and from London because oh it was too complex
    4b) it really didn't consider the impact of an empty WCML and ECML would have on capacity uses on the WCML / ECML and freight

    On 1 we should have a permanently employed team working on HS2 Manchester, then HS2 Leeds. We should also be working on HS3 expanding from Birmingham to Bristol / Exeter / Swansea.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,375

    The Tories got the REAL hospital pass: Covid into Ukraine into Cost of Living Crisis.

    Lord alone knows how Reeves would have managed that triple whammy.

    The Tories got a hospital pass from... the Tories?
    Covid - once in a century genuine crisis. A literal hospital pass to be fair
    Ukraine - two crises. The military one? Can't see Starmer treating it differently. Energy? We were chained to Russian energy in part thanks to a PM who was bezzies with oligarchs
    Cost of Living Crisis - Housing (Tories fault) and Energy (Tories fault)

    Even this week the Tories are on the move in Parliament, standing up for the rentier class and against normal people.
    You may recall at the start (Coalition) they inherited an economy that had had the worst recession in British history, not helped by a Labour Government that had brought forward spending to make the inheritance worse.

    Unfortunately, Labour were not slammed by the media for that tactic, which helped encourage the Conservatives to do something similar.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,858
    eek said:

    I've decided to join the Labour Party.

    They are better at implementing centre-right policies than the Conservatives, who are incompetent; the key thing for me is keeping a sensible government in office, and Reform would be a dangerous car crash.

    *checks the date*
    The problem is every part of his statement is true...
    Part from "I've decided to join the Labour Party".

    Though I can see Casino voting for them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,858
    Having admitted they've renditioned him in error...

    Trump's lawyers are arguing that because they've dumped this guy in a Salvadoran prison, he can't file a habeas corpus petition, because he's no longer in American custody. They're arguing that once you get to sent to El Salvador, no court can order the govt to bring you back.
    https://x.com/JamesSurowiecki/status/1906903088461656383
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,035
    Nigelb said:

    Having admitted they've renditioned him in error...

    Trump's lawyers are arguing that because they've dumped this guy in a Salvadoran prison, he can't file a habeas corpus petition, because he's no longer in American custody. They're arguing that once you get to sent to El Salvador, no court can order the govt to bring you back.
    https://x.com/JamesSurowiecki/status/1906903088461656383

    What's El Salvador getting out of this?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,879
    edited April 1

    The Tories got the REAL hospital pass: Covid into Ukraine into Cost of Living Crisis.

    Lord alone knows how Reeves would have managed that triple whammy.

    Furlough payments and energy support would have been delayed for four months as Reeves would have asked the OBR to model the effects before introducing them.
    Furlough was an imperative but the method used was cumbersome, overly complicated and open to organised criminal fraud. Some people missed out and others made a killing. It was not well thought through.

    And don't start me on PPE fast lanes ..
  • PJHPJH Posts: 782

    Statue of Margaret Thatcher to be installed at Liverpool's Royal Albert Dock on 13th October this year, commemorating the centenary of her birth.



    https://x.com/MrsMThatcher/status/1906950777853104416/photo/1

    Nice one. I got as far as thinking "why Liverpool, of all places?" before I remembered the date.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,035
    eek said:

    Fishing said:

    We all know that Labour were given a hospital pass by the Tories. The economy in bits, public services an underfunded shambles and local government on the brink of collapse.

    We should not allow the Tories to get away from the grotesque mess they made.

    But - and its a big but - Labour have shown themselves to lacking in ideas and now trapped by treasury orthodoxy which insists that the way to restart an economy on its knees is cut some more, to fix public services is to break them harder, the way to restore confidence is make everyone depressed.

    This is stupid. You cannot cut your way to growth. We need to invest.

    No, we need to facilitate private sector investment and growth.

    Government is brilliant at investing in crap - politically dictated projects that make no economic sense, from Concorde to HS2 to ...

    On energy it should be encouraging, not preventing, the private sector to exploit our hydrocarbon reserves.

    On transportation, it should be building the projects that will boost the economy the most, which are generally roads in and around London, rather than the dismal disaster of HS2.

    On housing, the government should be facilitating private sector self-build.

    It should be cutting business regulation and taxes, and if necessary increasing taxes like VAT which harm economic growth much less, as Mrs Thatcher did in her first term.

    Etc etc.
    HS2 is only a disaster because I will repeat this for the thousandth time

    1) the Government didn't leave them alone to build it
    2) the requirements were gold plated on top of diamond encrusted gold
    3) in the case of Euston 3 different projects (HS2, fixing TfL's station, the tunnel to Euston) have all been put into the HS2 pot.
    4) the economic model ignores all journeys that aren't to and from London because oh it was too complex
    4b) it really didn't consider the impact of an empty WCML and ECML would have on capacity uses on the WCML / ECML and freight

    On 1 we should have a permanently employed team working on HS2 Manchester, then HS2 Leeds. We should also be working on HS3 expanding from Birmingham to Bristol / Exeter / Swansea.
    Tom Harwood has proposed HS4 linking London, via Oxford into the S West as far as Plymouth.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,627
    Fishing said:

    We all know that Labour were given a hospital pass by the Tories. The economy in bits, public services an underfunded shambles and local government on the brink of collapse.

    We should not allow the Tories to get away from the grotesque mess they made.

    But - and its a big but - Labour have shown themselves to lacking in ideas and now trapped by treasury orthodoxy which insists that the way to restart an economy on its knees is cut some more, to fix public services is to break them harder, the way to restore confidence is make everyone depressed.

    This is stupid. You cannot cut your way to growth. We need to invest.

    No, we need to facilitate private sector investment and growth.

    Government is brilliant at investing in crap - politically dictated projects that make no economic sense, from Concorde to HS2 to ...

    On energy it should be encouraging, not preventing, the private sector to exploit our hydrocarbon reserves.

    On transportation, it should be building the projects that will boost the economy the most, which are generally roads in and around London, rather than the dismal disaster of HS2.

    On housing, the government should be facilitating private sector self-build.

    It should be cutting business regulation and taxes, and if necessary increasing taxes like VAT which harm economic growth much less, as Mrs Thatcher did in her first term.

    Etc etc.
    Oh I agree - private sector investment. But that only happens when the strategic framework is done by the state.

    My two biggies are Housing and Energy.

    Housing? The private sector is fast at buying land and slow at building houses. And what it does build are the wrong types of homes sold at daft prices. We need to demolish and rebuild broken towns and with the greatest respect I don't see Taylor Wimpey going to shareholders like my mum asking her to invest in building affordable homes in Mansfield. It'll need to be government and local authorities setting development zones and then directing what types of homes to build for the LHA. At which point Taylor Wimpey etc can bid for the contract.

    Energy? I agree that we should keep drilling oil and gas - its nonsensical to stop doing so and then import it. We also need to supercharge clean energy industry - don't settle for imported equipment we should be designing, building and exporting. Which needs a stable policy and government tax bungs to get started. We're all talking about SMRs but again that needs government to say they actually want them and to slash the timetable to actually build them quickly.

    Transport? Can't all be London because then you don't have an economy. All of our competitors in Europe connect up towns and cities - we have to do the same.

    Business? Needs to invest in skills and facilities. I have a much longer list of ideas, but the starting place should be Corporation Tax cuts only for companies who invest in skills and infrastructure. When we cut their taxes and ask for nothing in return we get nothing in return. Productivity is so low in this country because we have largely unskilled unmotivated workers left ignored by their employers.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,388

    Nigelb said:

    Having admitted they've renditioned him in error...

    Trump's lawyers are arguing that because they've dumped this guy in a Salvadoran prison, he can't file a habeas corpus petition, because he's no longer in American custody. They're arguing that once you get to sent to El Salvador, no court can order the govt to bring you back.
    https://x.com/JamesSurowiecki/status/1906903088461656383

    What's El Salvador getting out of this?
    They should have gone for Val Verde :lol:
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,879
    ...

    I've decided to join the Labour Party.

    They are better at implementing centre-right policies than the Conservatives, who are incompetent; the key thing for me is keeping a sensible government in office, and Reform would be a dangerous car crash.

    Remind me of the date you joined.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,627

    The Tories got the REAL hospital pass: Covid into Ukraine into Cost of Living Crisis.

    Lord alone knows how Reeves would have managed that triple whammy.

    The Tories got a hospital pass from... the Tories?
    Covid - once in a century genuine crisis. A literal hospital pass to be fair
    Ukraine - two crises. The military one? Can't see Starmer treating it differently. Energy? We were chained to Russian energy in part thanks to a PM who was bezzies with oligarchs
    Cost of Living Crisis - Housing (Tories fault) and Energy (Tories fault)

    Even this week the Tories are on the move in Parliament, standing up for the rentier class and against normal people.
    You may recall at the start (Coalition) they inherited an economy that had had the worst recession in British history, not helped by a Labour Government that had brought forward spending to make the inheritance worse.

    Unfortunately, Labour were not slammed by the media for that tactic, which helped encourage the Conservatives to do something similar.
    I'm sure that you remember the late naughties as I do.

    Shadow Chancellor Osborne was very clear. He wanted to drive the bubble even harder, match every penny of Labour spending plans, and then give the extra tax receipts from the bigger bubble back as tax cuts. And regulation of the city which was woefully inadequate under Labour? He decried why it was so heavily regulated and wanted to cut red tape even more.

    So which spending are you saying the Tories wouldn't have done, because they openly and repeatedly pledged to spend every single penny. As I'm sure you well know...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,375

    The Tories got the REAL hospital pass: Covid into Ukraine into Cost of Living Crisis.

    Lord alone knows how Reeves would have managed that triple whammy.

    The Tories got a hospital pass from... the Tories?
    Covid - once in a century genuine crisis. A literal hospital pass to be fair
    Ukraine - two crises. The military one? Can't see Starmer treating it differently. Energy? We were chained to Russian energy in part thanks to a PM who was bezzies with oligarchs
    Cost of Living Crisis - Housing (Tories fault) and Energy (Tories fault)

    Even this week the Tories are on the move in Parliament, standing up for the rentier class and against normal people.
    You may recall at the start (Coalition) they inherited an economy that had had the worst recession in British history, not helped by a Labour Government that had brought forward spending to make the inheritance worse.

    Unfortunately, Labour were not slammed by the media for that tactic, which helped encourage the Conservatives to do something similar.
    I'm sure that you remember the late naughties as I do.

    Shadow Chancellor Osborne was very clear. He wanted to drive the bubble even harder, match every penny of Labour spending plans, and then give the extra tax receipts from the bigger bubble back as tax cuts. And regulation of the city which was woefully inadequate under Labour? He decried why it was so heavily regulated and wanted to cut red tape even more.

    So which spending are you saying the Tories wouldn't have done, because they openly and repeatedly pledged to spend every single penny. As I'm sure you well know...
    If you want to hold the Opposition to account for Government actions then remember also that Starmer condemned the Sunak furlough for not being generous enough.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,879

    The Tories got the REAL hospital pass: Covid into Ukraine into Cost of Living Crisis.

    Lord alone knows how Reeves would have managed that triple whammy.

    The Tories got a hospital pass from... the Tories?
    Covid - once in a century genuine crisis. A literal hospital pass to be fair
    Ukraine - two crises. The military one? Can't see Starmer treating it differently. Energy? We were chained to Russian energy in part thanks to a PM who was bezzies with oligarchs
    Cost of Living Crisis - Housing (Tories fault) and Energy (Tories fault)

    Even this week the Tories are on the move in Parliament, standing up for the rentier class and against normal people.
    You may recall at the start (Coalition) they inherited an economy that had had the worst recession in British history, not helped by a Labour Government that had brought forward spending to make the inheritance worse.

    Unfortunately, Labour were not slammed by the media for that tactic, which helped encourage the Conservatives to do something similar.
    You missed the stories of Jeremy Hunt reducing NI (twice) when the cupboard was bare then?*

    * That's not to say Reeves wasn't foolish not to reverse them on day one of the new Labour Government.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,627

    The Tories got the REAL hospital pass: Covid into Ukraine into Cost of Living Crisis.

    Lord alone knows how Reeves would have managed that triple whammy.

    The Tories got a hospital pass from... the Tories?
    Covid - once in a century genuine crisis. A literal hospital pass to be fair
    Ukraine - two crises. The military one? Can't see Starmer treating it differently. Energy? We were chained to Russian energy in part thanks to a PM who was bezzies with oligarchs
    Cost of Living Crisis - Housing (Tories fault) and Energy (Tories fault)

    Even this week the Tories are on the move in Parliament, standing up for the rentier class and against normal people.
    You may recall at the start (Coalition) they inherited an economy that had had the worst recession in British history, not helped by a Labour Government that had brought forward spending to make the inheritance worse.

    Unfortunately, Labour were not slammed by the media for that tactic, which helped encourage the Conservatives to do something similar.
    I'm sure that you remember the late naughties as I do.

    Shadow Chancellor Osborne was very clear. He wanted to drive the bubble even harder, match every penny of Labour spending plans, and then give the extra tax receipts from the bigger bubble back as tax cuts. And regulation of the city which was woefully inadequate under Labour? He decried why it was so heavily regulated and wanted to cut red tape even more.

    So which spending are you saying the Tories wouldn't have done, because they openly and repeatedly pledged to spend every single penny. As I'm sure you well know...
    If you want to hold the Opposition to account for Government actions then remember also that Starmer condemned the Sunak furlough for not being generous enough.
    He was right - it wasn't. We needed to spend more to reduce the drop in economic output which has cost more in the long term.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,491
    edited April 1

    eek said:

    Fishing said:

    We all know that Labour were given a hospital pass by the Tories. The economy in bits, public services an underfunded shambles and local government on the brink of collapse.

    We should not allow the Tories to get away from the grotesque mess they made.

    But - and its a big but - Labour have shown themselves to lacking in ideas and now trapped by treasury orthodoxy which insists that the way to restart an economy on its knees is cut some more, to fix public services is to break them harder, the way to restore confidence is make everyone depressed.

    This is stupid. You cannot cut your way to growth. We need to invest.

    No, we need to facilitate private sector investment and growth.

    Government is brilliant at investing in crap - politically dictated projects that make no economic sense, from Concorde to HS2 to ...

    On energy it should be encouraging, not preventing, the private sector to exploit our hydrocarbon reserves.

    On transportation, it should be building the projects that will boost the economy the most, which are generally roads in and around London, rather than the dismal disaster of HS2.

    On housing, the government should be facilitating private sector self-build.

    It should be cutting business regulation and taxes, and if necessary increasing taxes like VAT which harm economic growth much less, as Mrs Thatcher did in her first term.

    Etc etc.
    HS2 is only a disaster because I will repeat this for the thousandth time

    1) the Government didn't leave them alone to build it
    2) the requirements were gold plated on top of diamond encrusted gold
    3) in the case of Euston 3 different projects (HS2, fixing TfL's station, the tunnel to Euston) have all been put into the HS2 pot.
    4) the economic model ignores all journeys that aren't to and from London because oh it was too complex
    4b) it really didn't consider the impact of an empty WCML and ECML would have on capacity uses on the WCML / ECML and freight

    On 1 we should have a permanently employed team working on HS2 Manchester, then HS2 Leeds. We should also be working on HS3 expanding from Birmingham to Bristol / Exeter / Swansea.
    Tom Harwood has proposed HS4 linking London, via Oxford into the S West as far as Plymouth.
    To which I would point out that I would take it to Birmingham because currently it’s just a replacement for the west Country line with stop in Oxford replacing Reading

    From memory and experience the route form Birmingham to Bristol needs vast improvement it’s slow and at capacity (albeit not helped by the short trains cross country have been lumbered with).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,871

    I've decided to join the Labour Party.

    They are better at implementing centre-right policies than the Conservatives, who are incompetent; the key thing for me is keeping a sensible government in office, and Reform would be a dangerous car crash.

    That's great!
    Chapeau.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,375

    The Tories got the REAL hospital pass: Covid into Ukraine into Cost of Living Crisis.

    Lord alone knows how Reeves would have managed that triple whammy.

    The Tories got a hospital pass from... the Tories?
    Covid - once in a century genuine crisis. A literal hospital pass to be fair
    Ukraine - two crises. The military one? Can't see Starmer treating it differently. Energy? We were chained to Russian energy in part thanks to a PM who was bezzies with oligarchs
    Cost of Living Crisis - Housing (Tories fault) and Energy (Tories fault)

    Even this week the Tories are on the move in Parliament, standing up for the rentier class and against normal people.
    You may recall at the start (Coalition) they inherited an economy that had had the worst recession in British history, not helped by a Labour Government that had brought forward spending to make the inheritance worse.

    Unfortunately, Labour were not slammed by the media for that tactic, which helped encourage the Conservatives to do something similar.
    You missed the stories of Jeremy Hunt reducing NI (twice) when the cupboard was bare then?*

    * That's not to say Reeves wasn't foolish not to reverse them on day one of the new Labour Government.
    Mr. Pete, I just referred, disapprovingly, of that reduction, when I said (contained within your quoted post):

    "Unfortunately, Labour were not slammed by the media for that tactic, which helped encourage the Conservatives to do something similar."
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,879

    The Tories got the REAL hospital pass: Covid into Ukraine into Cost of Living Crisis.

    Lord alone knows how Reeves would have managed that triple whammy.

    The Tories got a hospital pass from... the Tories?
    Covid - once in a century genuine crisis. A literal hospital pass to be fair
    Ukraine - two crises. The military one? Can't see Starmer treating it differently. Energy? We were chained to Russian energy in part thanks to a PM who was bezzies with oligarchs
    Cost of Living Crisis - Housing (Tories fault) and Energy (Tories fault)

    Even this week the Tories are on the move in Parliament, standing up for the rentier class and against normal people.
    You may recall at the start (Coalition) they inherited an economy that had had the worst recession in British history, not helped by a Labour Government that had brought forward spending to make the inheritance worse.

    Unfortunately, Labour were not slammed by the media for that tactic, which helped encourage the Conservatives to do something similar.
    I'm sure that you remember the late naughties as I do.

    Shadow Chancellor Osborne was very clear. He wanted to drive the bubble even harder, match every penny of Labour spending plans, and then give the extra tax receipts from the bigger bubble back as tax cuts. And regulation of the city which was woefully inadequate under Labour? He decried why it was so heavily regulated and wanted to cut red tape even more.

    So which spending are you saying the Tories wouldn't have done, because they openly and repeatedly pledged to spend every single penny. As I'm sure you well know...
    If you want to hold the Opposition to account for Government actions then remember also that Starmer condemned the Sunak furlough for not being generous enough.
    For those that missed out it wasn't generous enough. For others it was too generous, particularly for organised criminals. It was a dreadful dog's breakfast. Yes it needed to be implemented quickly but simpler, cheaper solutions were available including arranging repayment holidays with lending institutions.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,220

    The Tories got the REAL hospital pass: Covid into Ukraine into Cost of Living Crisis.

    Lord alone knows how Reeves would have managed that triple whammy.

    The Tories got a hospital pass from... the Tories?
    Covid - once in a century genuine crisis. A literal hospital pass to be fair
    Ukraine - two crises. The military one? Can't see Starmer treating it differently. Energy? We were chained to Russian energy in part thanks to a PM who was bezzies with oligarchs
    Cost of Living Crisis - Housing (Tories fault) and Energy (Tories fault)

    Even this week the Tories are on the move in Parliament, standing up for the rentier class and against normal people.
    You may recall at the start (Coalition) they inherited an economy that had had the worst recession in British history, not helped by a Labour Government that had brought forward spending to make the inheritance worse.

    Unfortunately, Labour were not slammed by the media for that tactic, which helped encourage the Conservatives to do something similar.
    I'm sure that you remember the late naughties as I do.

    Shadow Chancellor Osborne was very clear. He wanted to drive the bubble even harder, match every penny of Labour spending plans, and then give the extra tax receipts from the bigger bubble back as tax cuts. And regulation of the city which was woefully inadequate under Labour? He decried why it was so heavily regulated and wanted to cut red tape even more.

    So which spending are you saying the Tories wouldn't have done, because they openly and repeatedly pledged to spend every single penny. As I'm sure you well know...
    If you want to hold the Opposition to account for Government actions then remember also that Starmer condemned the Sunak furlough for not being generous enough.
    Starmer also wanted another Christmas lockdown. Thankfully, Boris ignored him.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,627
    Happily whataboutery won't save the Tories...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,858

    Nigelb said:

    Having admitted they've renditioned him in error...

    Trump's lawyers are arguing that because they've dumped this guy in a Salvadoran prison, he can't file a habeas corpus petition, because he's no longer in American custody. They're arguing that once you get to sent to El Salvador, no court can order the govt to bring you back.
    https://x.com/JamesSurowiecki/status/1906903088461656383

    What's El Salvador getting out of this?
    About $20k per head, and Trump's gratitude (which is worth around 1c).
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,692

    The Tories got the REAL hospital pass: Covid into Ukraine into Cost of Living Crisis.

    Lord alone knows how Reeves would have managed that triple whammy.

    The Tories got a hospital pass from... the Tories?
    Covid - once in a century genuine crisis. A literal hospital pass to be fair
    Ukraine - two crises. The military one? Can't see Starmer treating it differently. Energy? We were chained to Russian energy in part thanks to a PM who was bezzies with oligarchs
    Cost of Living Crisis - Housing (Tories fault) and Energy (Tories fault)

    Even this week the Tories are on the move in Parliament, standing up for the rentier class and against normal people.
    You may recall at the start (Coalition) they inherited an economy that had had the worst recession in British history, not helped by a Labour Government that had brought forward spending to make the inheritance worse.

    Unfortunately, Labour were not slammed by the media for that tactic, which helped encourage the Conservatives to do something similar.
    I'm sure that you remember the late naughties as I do.

    Shadow Chancellor Osborne was very clear. He wanted to drive the bubble even harder, match every penny of Labour spending plans, and then give the extra tax receipts from the bigger bubble back as tax cuts. And regulation of the city which was woefully inadequate under Labour? He decried why it was so heavily regulated and wanted to cut red tape even more.

    So which spending are you saying the Tories wouldn't have done, because they openly and repeatedly pledged to spend every single penny. As I'm sure you well know...
    If you want to hold the Opposition to account for Government actions then remember also that Starmer condemned the Sunak furlough for not being generous enough.
    ...and also for not closing down the economy firmly enough.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,375

    Happily whataboutery won't save the Tories...

    You're the one who introduced the 'what about Osborne in opposition' line. It seems a little unreasonable to criticise others for doing as you did. I'm quite content to avoid holding the Opposition to account.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,264
    REVERSE BREXIT NOW.......

    .....It might not make an instant difference but it'll make people feel better about things

    ....and for those it doesn't it'll give them something else on which to concentate their ire
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,627
    We do need to hear some proposals from the right about how to fix the mess - and we aren't getting them.

    Clearly they can't say "carry on doing what we were doing". It needs to be something new. Tories used to be the party of business, surely some of them must know someone who still supports them who understands business?

    Its this gaping political void and Reform are happily occupying it to draw crayon pictures on the walls.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,879

    The Tories got the REAL hospital pass: Covid into Ukraine into Cost of Living Crisis.

    Lord alone knows how Reeves would have managed that triple whammy.

    The Tories got a hospital pass from... the Tories?
    Covid - once in a century genuine crisis. A literal hospital pass to be fair
    Ukraine - two crises. The military one? Can't see Starmer treating it differently. Energy? We were chained to Russian energy in part thanks to a PM who was bezzies with oligarchs
    Cost of Living Crisis - Housing (Tories fault) and Energy (Tories fault)

    Even this week the Tories are on the move in Parliament, standing up for the rentier class and against normal people.
    You may recall at the start (Coalition) they inherited an economy that had had the worst recession in British history, not helped by a Labour Government that had brought forward spending to make the inheritance worse.

    Unfortunately, Labour were not slammed by the media for that tactic, which helped encourage the Conservatives to do something similar.
    I'm sure that you remember the late naughties as I do.

    Shadow Chancellor Osborne was very clear. He wanted to drive the bubble even harder, match every penny of Labour spending plans, and then give the extra tax receipts from the bigger bubble back as tax cuts. And regulation of the city which was woefully inadequate under Labour? He decried why it was so heavily regulated and wanted to cut red tape even more.

    So which spending are you saying the Tories wouldn't have done, because they openly and repeatedly pledged to spend every single penny. As I'm sure you well know...
    If you want to hold the Opposition to account for Government actions then remember also that Starmer condemned the Sunak furlough for not being generous enough.
    Starmer also wanted another Christmas lockdown. Thankfully, Boris ignored him.
    I suspect Starmer would have locked us down earlier and for longer. I also suspect Starmer would have based his judgement on advice from experts rather than political expediency and a predilection to personally party hard.

    The nation didn't get lucky by Johnson's late first lockdown, but he (and we) got lucky with the final Christmas non-lockdown.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,510
    Reeves' problem is she has annoyed the right with taxes on farmers and business owners and cutting pensioners winter fuel allowance.

    Then she has now annoyed the left by cutting spending on welfare, overseas aid and the civil service
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,510
    Roger said:

    REVERSE BREXIT NOW.......

    .....It might not make an instant difference but it'll make people feel better about things

    ....and for those it doesn't it'll give them something else on which to concentate their ire

    Even the LDs are only now saying they want to return to a customs union first not straight away reverse Brexit
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,627

    Happily whataboutery won't save the Tories...

    You're the one who introduced the 'what about Osborne in opposition' line. It seems a little unreasonable to criticise others for doing as you did. I'm quite content to avoid holding the Opposition to account.
    I didn't. The accusation was that Labour had left Osborne a hospital pass. My observation was that Osborne was shouting for the hospital pass to kicked into his face harder.
  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 253
    edited April 1

    Fishing said:

    We all know that Labour were given a hospital pass by the Tories. The economy in bits, public services an underfunded shambles and local government on the brink of collapse.

    We should not allow the Tories to get away from the grotesque mess they made.

    But - and its a big but - Labour have shown themselves to lacking in ideas and now trapped by treasury orthodoxy which insists that the way to restart an economy on its knees is cut some more, to fix public services is to break them harder, the way to restore confidence is make everyone depressed.

    This is stupid. You cannot cut your way to growth. We need to invest.

    No, we need to facilitate private sector investment and growth.

    Government is brilliant at investing in crap - politically dictated projects that make no economic sense, from Concorde to HS2 to ...

    On energy it should be encouraging, not preventing, the private sector to exploit our hydrocarbon reserves.

    On transportation, it should be building the projects that will boost the economy the most, which are generally roads in and around London, rather than the dismal disaster of HS2.

    On housing, the government should be facilitating private sector self-build.

    It should be cutting business regulation and taxes, and if necessary increasing taxes like VAT which harm economic growth much less, as Mrs Thatcher did in her first term.

    Etc etc.
    Oh I agree - private sector investment. But that only happens when the strategic framework is done by the state.

    My two biggies are Housing and Energy.

    Housing? The private sector is fast at buying land and slow at building houses. And what it does build are the wrong types of homes sold at daft prices. We need to demolish and rebuild broken towns and with the greatest respect I don't see Taylor Wimpey going to shareholders like my mum asking her to invest in building affordable homes in Mansfield. It'll need to be government and local authorities setting development zones and then directing what types of homes to build for the LHA. At which point Taylor Wimpey etc can bid for the contract.

    Energy? I agree that we should keep drilling oil and gas - its nonsensical to stop doing so and then import it. We also need to supercharge clean energy industry - don't settle for imported equipment we should be designing, building and exporting. Which needs a stable policy and government tax bungs to get started. We're all talking about SMRs but again that needs government to say they actually want them and to slash the timetable to actually build them quickly.

    Transport? Can't all be London because then you don't have an economy. All of our competitors in Europe connect up towns and cities - we have to do the same.

    Business? Needs to invest in skills and facilities. I have a much longer list of ideas, but the starting place should be Corporation Tax cuts only for companies who invest in skills and infrastructure. When we cut their taxes and ask for nothing in return we get nothing in return. Productivity is so low in this country because we have largely unskilled unmotivated workers left ignored by their employers.

    Global fossil fuel usage is still climbing.
    A crime against future generations .
    Complicity, yeah, if you are not doing what you reasonably can you are part of the problem.

    10% council tax on unbuilt homes would bring more housing to market than any sad yet comic cry for growth and a pointing finger.

    As for Labour. Shakes head. A hard stop on selling council houses would have been an easy win. WFA needed to be stopped. End of 2026 allowing time to get your house draught proofed would have less dumb.

    I’m not surprised Casino is considering joining.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,879
    edited April 1
    Roger said:

    REVERSE BREXIT NOW.......

    .....It might not make an instant difference but it'll make people feel better about things

    ....and for those it doesn't it'll give them something else on which to concentate their ire

    European nations don't want us back.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,627

    Fishing said:

    We all know that Labour were given a hospital pass by the Tories. The economy in bits, public services an underfunded shambles and local government on the brink of collapse.

    We should not allow the Tories to get away from the grotesque mess they made.

    But - and its a big but - Labour have shown themselves to lacking in ideas and now trapped by treasury orthodoxy which insists that the way to restart an economy on its knees is cut some more, to fix public services is to break them harder, the way to restore confidence is make everyone depressed.

    This is stupid. You cannot cut your way to growth. We need to invest.

    No, we need to facilitate private sector investment and growth.

    Government is brilliant at investing in crap - politically dictated projects that make no economic sense, from Concorde to HS2 to ...

    On energy it should be encouraging, not preventing, the private sector to exploit our hydrocarbon reserves.

    On transportation, it should be building the projects that will boost the economy the most, which are generally roads in and around London, rather than the dismal disaster of HS2.

    On housing, the government should be facilitating private sector self-build.

    It should be cutting business regulation and taxes, and if necessary increasing taxes like VAT which harm economic growth much less, as Mrs Thatcher did in her first term.

    Etc etc.
    Oh I agree - private sector investment. But that only happens when the strategic framework is done by the state.

    My two biggies are Housing and Energy.

    Housing? The private sector is fast at buying land and slow at building houses. And what it does build are the wrong types of homes sold at daft prices. We need to demolish and rebuild broken towns and with the greatest respect I don't see Taylor Wimpey going to shareholders like my mum asking her to invest in building affordable homes in Mansfield. It'll need to be government and local authorities setting development zones and then directing what types of homes to build for the LHA. At which point Taylor Wimpey etc can bid for the contract.

    Energy? I agree that we should keep drilling oil and gas - its nonsensical to stop doing so and then import it. We also need to supercharge clean energy industry - don't settle for imported equipment we should be designing, building and exporting. Which needs a stable policy and government tax bungs to get started. We're all talking about SMRs but again that needs government to say they actually want them and to slash the timetable to actually build them quickly.

    Transport? Can't all be London because then you don't have an economy. All of our competitors in Europe connect up towns and cities - we have to do the same.

    Business? Needs to invest in skills and facilities. I have a much longer list of ideas, but the starting place should be Corporation Tax cuts only for companies who invest in skills and infrastructure. When we cut their taxes and ask for nothing in return we get nothing in return. Productivity is so low in this country because we have largely unskilled unmotivated workers left ignored by their employers.

    Global fossil fuel usage is still climbing.
    A crime against future generations .


    10% council tax on unbuilt homes would bring more housing to market than any sad yet comic cry for growth and a pointing finger.

    As for Labour. Shakes head. A hard stop on selling council houses would have been an easy win. WFA needed to be stopped. End of 2026 allowing time to get your house draught proofed would have less dumb.

    I’m not surprised Casino is considering joining.
    Globally, yes. And we're doing very well in the UK with our transition away from fossil fuels. EV use is growing and fuel cars getting more efficient through hybrid drivetrains. We burn no coal and little gas to generate power. People like me still burn oil for home heating but we're in decline.

    We need to go further and faster on clean energy - it's the future of energy independence and will be a brilliant way for the UK to make money. But we can't just stop drilling the oil and gas still in our waters. With the best will in the world we still need the stuff - oil especially. If we stop digging our own we have to import it. How does that make any sense?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,879
    HYUFD said:

    Reeves' problem is she has annoyed the right with taxes on farmers and business owners and cutting pensioners winter fuel allowance.

    Then she has now annoyed the left by cutting spending on welfare, overseas aid and the civil service

    The headlines are terrible but beyond the headlines some headway is being made. Take the Motability scam. 21% if all new cars in the UK are purchased under Motability. Able bodied family members using Motability vehicles for their full time use and not the disabled user. Provider CEOs earning million pound salaries and awarding themselves millions of pounds in bonuses. Kwik fit making a fortune on sole supply of only prestige branded tyres. Even those managing the scheme agree the system has been abused.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/motability-car-scheme-abuse-benefits-claimants-3614822
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,821
    kjh said:

    Not very impressed with April Fools stuff today. Only decent one was the article in the Oxford Mail of Taylor Swift signing up for a music degree in Oxford.

    Or maybe they have been brilliant and have all gone over my head. It is difficult these days to tell the difference between reality and spoofs

    Yes. I really enjoyed the one about Trump making his voters poorer by imposing tariffs on all the nice they they could just about afford. And the one about the USA government deciding that criminals don't qualify for legal processes to decide they are criminals before deciding they are criminals.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,357
    Youth Select Committee publishes report investigating links between social media and youth violence, https://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2025/march/youth-select-committee-publishes-report-investigating-links-between-social-media-and-youth-violence/
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,388
    Just got an email from OGH stating he's not happy with TSE's performance thus far, and is installing ME as, er, "Lord Protector" of PB.com!

    :lol:
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,727
    edited April 1

    Fishing said:

    We all know that Labour were given a hospital pass by the Tories. The economy in bits, public services an underfunded shambles and local government on the brink of collapse.

    We should not allow the Tories to get away from the grotesque mess they made.

    But - and its a big but - Labour have shown themselves to lacking in ideas and now trapped by treasury orthodoxy which insists that the way to restart an economy on its knees is cut some more, to fix public services is to break them harder, the way to restore confidence is make everyone depressed.

    This is stupid. You cannot cut your way to growth. We need to invest.

    No, we need to facilitate private sector investment and growth.

    Government is brilliant at investing in crap - politically dictated projects that make no economic sense, from Concorde to HS2 to ...

    On energy it should be encouraging, not preventing, the private sector to exploit our hydrocarbon reserves.

    On transportation, it should be building the projects that will boost the economy the most, which are generally roads in and around London, rather than the dismal disaster of HS2.

    On housing, the government should be facilitating private sector self-build.

    It should be cutting business regulation and taxes, and if necessary increasing taxes like VAT which harm economic growth much less, as Mrs Thatcher did in her first term.

    Etc etc.
    Oh I agree - private sector investment. But that only happens when the strategic framework is done by the state.

    My two biggies are Housing and Energy.

    Housing? The private sector is fast at buying land and slow at building houses. And what it does build are the wrong types of homes sold at daft prices. We need to demolish and rebuild broken towns and with the greatest respect I don't see Taylor Wimpey going to shareholders like my mum asking her to invest in building affordable homes in Mansfield. It'll need to be government and local authorities setting development zones and then directing what types of homes to build for the LHA. At which point Taylor Wimpey etc can bid for the contract.

    Energy? I agree that we should keep drilling oil and gas - its nonsensical to stop doing so and then import it. We also need to supercharge clean energy industry - don't settle for imported equipment we should be designing, building and exporting. Which needs a stable policy and government tax bungs to get started. We're all talking about SMRs but again that needs government to say they actually want them and to slash the timetable to actually build them quickly.

    Transport? Can't all be London because then you don't have an economy. All of our competitors in Europe connect up towns and cities - we have to do the same.

    Business? Needs to invest in skills and facilities. I have a much longer list of ideas, but the starting place should be Corporation Tax cuts only for companies who invest in skills and infrastructure. When we cut their taxes and ask for nothing in return we get nothing in return. Productivity is so low in this country because we have largely unskilled unmotivated workers left ignored by their employers.

    Global fossil fuel usage is still climbing.
    A crime against future generations .


    10% council tax on unbuilt homes would bring more housing to market than any sad yet comic cry for growth and a pointing finger.

    As for Labour. Shakes head. A hard stop on selling council houses would have been an easy win. WFA needed to be stopped. End of 2026 allowing time to get your house draught proofed would have less dumb.

    I’m not surprised Casino is considering joining.
    Globally, yes. And we're doing very well in the UK with our transition away from fossil fuels. EV use is growing and fuel cars getting more efficient through hybrid drivetrains. We burn no coal and little gas to generate power. People like me still burn oil for home heating but we're in decline.

    We need to go further and faster on clean energy - it's the future of energy independence and will be a brilliant way for the UK to make money. But we can't just stop drilling the oil and gas still in our waters. With the best will in the world we still need the stuff - oil especially. If we stop digging our own we have to import it. How does that make any sense?
    If every country with oil and/or gas reserves applies the same logic, then the Earth is fucked. We need need to stop digging our own and stop importing. Not for purposes other than burning, and not immediately, of course, but as ASAP.
  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 253
    edited April 1

    Fishing said:

    We all know that Labour were given a hospital pass by the Tories. The economy in bits, public services an underfunded shambles and local government on the brink of collapse.

    We should not allow the Tories to get away from the grotesque mess they made.

    But - and its a big but - Labour have shown themselves to lacking in ideas and now trapped by treasury orthodoxy which insists that the way to restart an economy on its knees is cut some more, to fix public services is to break them harder, the way to restore confidence is make everyone depressed.

    This is stupid. You cannot cut your way to growth. We need to invest.

    No, we need to facilitate private sector investment and growth.

    Government is brilliant at investing in crap - politically dictated projects that make no economic sense, from Concorde to HS2 to ...

    On energy it should be encouraging, not preventing, the private sector to exploit our hydrocarbon reserves.

    On transportation, it should be building the projects that will boost the economy the most, which are generally roads in and around London, rather than the dismal disaster of HS2.

    On housing, the government should be facilitating private sector self-build.

    It should be cutting business regulation and taxes, and if necessary increasing taxes like VAT which harm economic growth much less, as Mrs Thatcher did in her first term.

    Etc etc.
    Oh I agree - private sector investment. But that only happens when the strategic framework is done by the state.

    My two biggies are Housing and Energy.

    Housing? The private sector is fast at buying land and slow at building houses. And what it does build are the wrong types of homes sold at daft prices. We need to demolish and rebuild broken towns and with the greatest respect I don't see Taylor Wimpey going to shareholders like my mum asking her to invest in building affordable homes in Mansfield. It'll need to be government and local authorities setting development zones and then directing what types of homes to build for the LHA. At which point Taylor Wimpey etc can bid for the contract.

    Energy? I agree that we should keep drilling oil and gas - its nonsensical to stop doing so and then import it. We also need to supercharge clean energy industry - don't settle for imported equipment we should be designing, building and exporting. Which needs a stable policy and government tax bungs to get started. We're all talking about SMRs but again that needs government to say they actually want them and to slash the timetable to actually build them quickly.

    Transport? Can't all be London because then you don't have an economy. All of our competitors in Europe connect up towns and cities - we have to do the same.

    Business? Needs to invest in skills and facilities. I have a much longer list of ideas, but the starting place should be Corporation Tax cuts only for companies who invest in skills and infrastructure. When we cut their taxes and ask for nothing in return we get nothing in return. Productivity is so low in this country because we have largely unskilled unmotivated workers left ignored by their employers.

    Global fossil fuel usage is still climbing.
    A crime against future generations .


    10% council tax on unbuilt homes would bring more housing to market than any sad yet comic cry for growth and a pointing finger.

    As for Labour. Shakes head. A hard stop on selling council houses would have been an easy win. WFA needed to be stopped. End of 2026 allowing time to get your house draught proofed would have less dumb.

    I’m not surprised Casino is considering joining.
    Globally, yes. And we're doing very well in the UK with our transition away from fossil fuels. EV use is growing and fuel cars getting more efficient through hybrid drivetrains. We burn no coal and little gas to generate power. People like me still burn oil for home heating but we're in decline.

    We need to go further and faster on clean energy - it's the future of energy independence and will be a brilliant way for the UK to make money. But we can't just stop drilling the oil and gas still in our waters. With the best will in the world we still need the stuff - oil especially. If we stop digging our own we have to import it. How does that make any sense?
    I know exactly where you are coming from. A Utilitarian approach to my Kantian position. I say wrong, you say but…

    So I need arguments. I’ve got these.

    At one level, importing fossil fuels is a principled yet doomed stand against autarky.

    On another, if it’s still in the ground it isn’t part of the catastrophe.


  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,111

    Fishing said:

    We all know that Labour were given a hospital pass by the Tories. The economy in bits, public services an underfunded shambles and local government on the brink of collapse.

    We should not allow the Tories to get away from the grotesque mess they made.

    But - and its a big but - Labour have shown themselves to lacking in ideas and now trapped by treasury orthodoxy which insists that the way to restart an economy on its knees is cut some more, to fix public services is to break them harder, the way to restore confidence is make everyone depressed.

    This is stupid. You cannot cut your way to growth. We need to invest.

    No, we need to facilitate private sector investment and growth.

    Government is brilliant at investing in crap - politically dictated projects that make no economic sense, from Concorde to HS2 to ...

    On energy it should be encouraging, not preventing, the private sector to exploit our hydrocarbon reserves.

    On transportation, it should be building the projects that will boost the economy the most, which are generally roads in and around London, rather than the dismal disaster of HS2.

    On housing, the government should be facilitating private sector self-build.

    It should be cutting business regulation and taxes, and if necessary increasing taxes like VAT which harm economic growth much less, as Mrs Thatcher did in her first term.

    Etc etc.
    Oh I agree - private sector investment. But that only happens when the strategic framework is done by the state.

    My two biggies are Housing and Energy.

    Housing? The private sector is fast at buying land and slow at building houses. And what it does build are the wrong types of homes sold at daft prices. We need to demolish and rebuild broken towns and with the greatest respect I don't see Taylor Wimpey going to shareholders like my mum asking her to invest in building affordable homes in Mansfield. It'll need to be government and local authorities setting development zones and then directing what types of homes to build for the LHA. At which point Taylor Wimpey etc can bid for the contract.

    Energy? I agree that we should keep drilling oil and gas - its nonsensical to stop doing so and then import it. We also need to supercharge clean energy industry - don't settle for imported equipment we should be designing, building and exporting. Which needs a stable policy and government tax bungs to get started. We're all talking about SMRs but again that needs government to say they actually want them and to slash the timetable to actually build them quickly.

    Transport? Can't all be London because then you don't have an economy. All of our competitors in Europe connect up towns and cities - we have to do the same.

    Business? Needs to invest in skills and facilities. I have a much longer list of ideas, but the starting place should be Corporation Tax cuts only for companies who invest in skills and infrastructure. When we cut their taxes and ask for nothing in return we get nothing in return. Productivity is so low in this country because we have largely unskilled unmotivated workers left ignored by their employers.

    Global fossil fuel usage is still climbing.
    A crime against future generations .


    10% council tax on unbuilt homes would bring more housing to market than any sad yet comic cry for growth and a pointing finger.

    As for Labour. Shakes head. A hard stop on selling council houses would have been an easy win. WFA needed to be stopped. End of 2026 allowing time to get your house draught proofed would have less dumb.

    I’m not surprised Casino is considering joining.
    Globally, yes. And we're doing very well in the UK with our transition away from fossil fuels. EV use is growing and fuel cars getting more efficient through hybrid drivetrains. We burn no coal and little gas to generate power. People like me still burn oil for home heating but we're in decline.

    We need to go further and faster on clean energy - it's the future of energy independence and will be a brilliant way for the UK to make money. But we can't just stop drilling the oil and gas still in our waters. With the best will in the world we still need the stuff - oil especially. If we stop digging our own we have to import it. How does that make any sense?
    If every country with oil and/or gas reserves applies the same logic, then the Earth is fucked. We need need to stop digging our own and stop importing. Not for purposes other than burning, and not immediately, of course, but as ASAP.
    The question becomes when the 'possible' in ASAP is. And it is probably further away then you or I would like. And in the meantime, unless you want to fuck the country up, we need to ensure we get the power we need. In terms of electricity, possibly lots more as we get more electric cars and electric boilers.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,144
    HYUFD said:

    Reeves' problem is she has annoyed the right with taxes on farmers and business owners and cutting pensioners winter fuel allowance.

    Then she has now annoyed the left by cutting spending on welfare, overseas aid and the civil service

    Reeves' problem is that she not only doesn't seem to have a plan, she doesn't even seem to know what problem she is trying to address - which is hardly conducive to public confidence.

    People will put up with painful government decisions, within reason, provided that those decisions fit in with an overall strategy that it has explained is necessary and ultimately beneficial; pain for gain. But you've got to set the vision and you've got to join the dots. I'm not seeing any of that.
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