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The Canadian petri dish – politicalbetting.com

124

Comments

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,995
    Eabhal said:

    I start every query with "don't be an Americanised over-friendly slimy git". Improves the experience immensely. On a serious note, it does seem very hard to substantiate the £300 million figure. Dunno where it has come from.
    I've gone into the settings on ChatGPT and told it to adopt the persona of Eddie, the Shipboard Computer from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxty.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,215
    rcs1000 said:

    Don't let the management of Thames Water get hold of that!
    "Look, we are better than Chad...."
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,583

    About time the Nobel Committee issued a press release.

    "To the Presdient of the United States:

    You are never getting a Peace Prize.

    Get over it.

    Your chances of one for Economics don't look too rosy either.


    The Committee."
    He’d probably declare war on them
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,583
    Phil said:

    Best thing Reeves could do for the UK during the Spring statement is to announce that the UK is to enter negotiations with the EU with the aim of rejoining the single market.

    Brexit has been an utter failure: not even it’s most ardent boosters can find anything positive to say about it: it’s a self-inflicted wound that we no longer have the luxury of pretending we can afford. It’s time to rejoin.

    You really think that now is the time to divide the country and distract our government / Europe with intense negotiations?

    Really? I mean really, really?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,144
    algarkirk said:
    It's the first poll this parliament with LD+G ahead of any other single party. The last-but-one YouGov in early March had LD+G tied with Lab (who led) on 24.

    Before then, I think you have to go back to July 2019, immediately after Johnson was elected Tory leader, for the last time a combined LD+G share outpolled any other party. In fact, there were a couple of polls then that had the Lib Dems in the lead by themselves (one outright, one tied).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,420

    Using my one picture of the day.
    [although fear it may have already been posted]

    I liked this one

    https://x.com/TomSharpe134/status/1904478841570996303
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,042
    Leon said:

    I’m not even sure it’s an accidental leak

    It’s quite convenient for the Trump Admin to get out the idea that they are REALLY done with defending Europe
    It’s not in their interests for Europe to see the hard truth though.

    Their interests would be better served by Europe hoping/thinking it’s all for show and the US would step in so not only do Europe keep sucking up, buying US kit and ultimately, when the balloon goes up, Trump can extract a big fat trillion dollar bill for stepping in to help - art of the deal innit.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,215
    Phil said:

    Best thing Reeves could do for the UK during the Spring statement is to announce that the UK is to enter negotiations with the EU with the aim of rejoining the single market.

    Brexit has been an utter failure: not even it’s most ardent boosters can find anything positive to say about it: it’s a self-inflicted wound that we no longer have the luxury of pretending we can afford. It’s time to rejoin.

    Where is she going to find the money for the membership fees?

    At leat Trump wouldn't ask for those if we became the 51st State.

    Probably.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,144

    You really think that now is the time to divide the country and distract our government / Europe with intense negotiations?

    Really? I mean really, really?
    Churchill proposed a political union with France in 1940. So actually, yes. Apart from anything else, there is a critical need for Europe (including the UK) to co-operate on developing defence capability to replace the US, and the manufacture of that is going to be done on SM terms - so now is very much the time.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,420
    Turns out Trump's tariff policy advisor is Scottish...

    https://bsky.app/profile/davidheniguk.bsky.social/post/3ll7epzs4lc2j
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,215

    He’d probably declare war on them
    This may explain his antipathy to Canada:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel,_Ontario#:~:text=Nobel is a village on,the Shawanaga First Nation reserve.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,530

    You really think that now is the time to divide the country and distract our government / Europe with intense negotiations?

    Really? I mean really, really?
    Yes, really. It would set a positive direction of travel for the economy, confirming that the government is serious about achieving economic growth.

    Who cares if a few Brexiteer cry-babies don’t like it? They’ve had their chance to make Brexit work & failed utterly. The US is no longer a reliably partner - the best thing we can do for the UK economy is to cosy up as close as possible to the EU by minimising trade barriers. If we can get services / finance on a equivalency basis then so much the better.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,937

    It's the first poll this parliament with LD+G ahead of any other single party. The last-but-one YouGov in early March had LD+G tied with Lab (who led) on 24.

    Before then, I think you have to go back to July 2019, immediately after Johnson was elected Tory leader, for the last time a combined LD+G share outpolled any other party. In fact, there were a couple of polls then that had the Lib Dems in the lead by themselves (one outright, one tied).
    Apart from a similar poll rating late Feb, it must be the highest, or one of such, since the early days of the coalition?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,439

    Using my one picture of the day.
    [although fear it may have already been posted]
    Inadvertently equating the Atlantic with the Völkischer Beobachter...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,675
    edited March 25

    "Look, we are better than Chad...."
    Interesting list though.

    I think “can you drink the tap water” is a litmus test for whether a country can be said to be developed or not. That and whether you’re likely to pick up traveller’s diarrhoea from the food. It still surprises me how many countries that’s the case.

    Where would we put the dividing line in this list? Perhaps at around 80%. The biggest surprise is how low Japan is. Contrast with South Korea.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,845

    Churchill proposed a political union with France in 1940. So actually, yes. Apart from anything else, there is a critical need for Europe (including the UK) to co-operate on developing defence capability to replace the US, and the manufacture of that is going to be done on SM terms - so now is very much the time.
    Poor old SuperMac.


  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,449
    Phil said:

    Best thing Reeves could do for the UK during the Spring statement is to announce that the UK is to enter negotiations with the EU with the aim of rejoining the single market.

    Brexit has been an utter failure: not even it’s most ardent boosters can find anything positive to say about it: it’s a self-inflicted wound that we no longer have the luxury of pretending we can afford. It’s time to rejoin.

    Rubbish. There are loads of positive things to say about leaving the EU.

    Just off the top of my head:

    - saving £20 billion+/year in gross contributions
    - no idiotic Common Foreign or Security Policy
    - no likelihood of being forced into the Euro
    - being able to set our own laws on dozens of policy areas
    - independent COVID vaccine programme
    - uncontrolled immigration from Eastern Europe virtually ended
    - Parliamentary sovereignty and the supremacy of common law reasserted
    - etc. etc.

    Of course there have been problems, though the main disadvantage, that some exporters find it significantly bureaucratic to send goods to the EU, doesn't seem to have caused the 3 million unemployed (or was it 5 million - they were never quite sure) predicted. And personally I miss access to the EU lanes when I occasionally travel to Europe.

    And unfortunately we still seem to be stuck with Northern Ireland.

    But there are plenty of successes to weigh against the undoubted teething difficulties.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,583
    Phil said:

    Yes, really. It would set a positive direction of travel for the economy, confirming that the government is serious about achieving economic growth.

    Who cares if a few Brexiteer cry-babies don’t like it? They’ve had their chance to make Brexit work & failed utterly. The US is no longer a reliably partner - the best thing we can do for the UK economy is to cosy up as close as possible to the EU by minimising trade barriers. If we can get services / finance on a equivalency basis then so much the better.
    The government doesn’t have bandwidth right now. You need to stop litigating the past
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,948
    rcs1000 said:

    I've gone into the settings on ChatGPT and told it to adopt the persona of Eddie, the Shipboard Computer from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxty.
    I can't turn it off

    Politicalbetting.com’s far ye can gie yer neb in tae aa the crack aboot politics an tak a flyer on fae’s gan tae land in power. Ye’ll see a puckle o loons an quines arguin aboot fitwey polls are swingin an fae’s lik tae haud the reins. It’s nae jist havin a blether—ye can pit yer siller doon an hae a richt guid bash at winnin somehin. Fit mair div ye wint tae ken, min?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,691
    Phil said:

    Best thing Reeves could do for the UK during the Spring statement is to announce that the UK is to enter negotiations with the EU with the aim of rejoining the single market.

    Brexit has been an utter failure: not even it’s most ardent boosters can find anything positive to say about it: it’s a self-inflicted wound that we no longer have the luxury of pretending we can afford. It’s time to rejoin.

    Its most ardent boosters can find plenty positive to say about it. including, OTTOMH:
    independence
    democracy
    not being tied up in regulations relating to AI
    being able to react to foreign policy disasters without having to do so through the prism of the EU
    delivery of vaccines
    being able to support industries
    insulating us from the instability of the Euro
    insulating us (a bit) from the growing extremist fringe in Europe

    You might consider Brexit a negative overall. But don't conclude that everyone does. I was wavering at the Brexit vote; everything I have seen since convinces me that Brexit was the right decision.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,530
    Cookie said:

    Its most ardent boosters can find plenty positive to say about it. including, OTTOMH:
    independence
    democracy
    not being tied up in regulations relating to AI
    being able to react to foreign policy disasters without having to do so through the prism of the EU
    delivery of vaccines
    being able to support industries
    insulating us from the instability of the Euro
    insulating us (a bit) from the growing extremist fringe in Europe

    You might consider Brexit a negative overall. But don't conclude that everyone does. I was wavering at the Brexit vote; everything I have seen since convinces me that Brexit was the right decision.
    We don’t have to re-join the EU. We can, and should, rejoin the single market (or get as close to that as reasonably possible).

    Currently we’re committing an on-going act of economic self-harm for absolutely no good reason. We can maintain all of those qualities you value so highly whilst still having unencumbered trade with the EU. We might even get services equivalence out of it - badgering the EU into opening up their internal services market would be just as good for them as it would be for us.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,144

    Inadvertently equating the Atlantic with the Völkischer Beobachter...
    Yes, should be the other way round really, with the Nazi leadership and generals discussing, say, the attack on France.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,764

    You really think that now is the time to divide the country and distract our government / Europe with intense negotiations?

    Really? I mean really, really?
    Yeah, lets reopen Brexit again! Just what we need! Brilliant idea! 😂
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,278
    kjh said:

    Yeah of course that is what happened. I can imagine the discussion now:

    'Tell you what chaps, these Europeans don't seem to have understood the umpteen references to us not wanting to defend them, why don't we all make ourselves liable for a prison sentence and make ourselves look completely incompetent by leaking in advance our plans to bomb an enemy and even give them the possibility to defend themselves and shoot down our planes/missiles, by sneaking in a reference to not liking Europeans which may never see the light of day. What harm can it cause?'

    'Yes. What a great idea. Go for it'
    That would be a telling argument if this was a normal American government. It is not
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,333

    Inadvertently equating the Atlantic with the Völkischer Beobachter...
    If you're quibbling over the details of jokes, you've already lost.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,746

    The government doesn’t have bandwidth right now. You need to stop litigating the past
    It's obvious though that the quickest spur to growth would be rejoining the SM.

    It's only the anti-growth coalition that cannot see that.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,491
    I look at this and think - what’s the problem https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62xy53w863o

    Round here the Catholic Secondary schools run a Lourdes pilgrimage in Easter week. Which means for the past 30 years Catholic schools have had different holidays to other schools in the same town not even different counties
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,764
    Fishing said:

    Rubbish. There are loads of positive things to say about leaving the EU.

    Just off the top of my head:

    - saving £20 billion+/year in gross contributions
    - no idiotic Common Foreign or Security Policy
    - no likelihood of being forced into the Euro
    - being able to set our own laws on dozens of policy areas
    - independent COVID vaccine programme
    - uncontrolled immigration from Eastern Europe virtually ended
    - Parliamentary sovereignty and the supremacy of common law reasserted
    - etc. etc.

    Of course there have been problems, though the main disadvantage, that some exporters find it significantly bureaucratic to send goods to the EU, doesn't seem to have caused the 3 million unemployed (or was it 5 million - they were never quite sure) predicted. And personally I miss access to the EU lanes when I occasionally travel to Europe.

    And unfortunately we still seem to be stuck with Northern Ireland.

    But there are plenty of successes to weigh against the undoubted teething difficulties.
    Our vaccine programme was so good the EU tried to steal them...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,224
    One excellent reason for rejoining would be the inevitable extirpation of the tory party. The Fukkers would naturally be the main pole of opposition and the leaversauri herds would flock to the grimy turquoise banner as fast as their Silk Cut induced emphysema would allow.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,428

    Churchill proposed a political union with France in 1940. So actually, yes. Apart from anything else, there is a critical need for Europe (including the UK) to co-operate on developing defence capability to replace the US, and the manufacture of that is going to be done on SM terms - so now is very much the time.
    You don't need to be in the single market to jointly develop weaponry and to agree how to fight wars.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,691
    Phil said:

    We don’t have to re-join the EU. We can, and should, rejoin the single market (or get as close to that as reasonably possible).

    Currently we’re committing an on-going act of economic self-harm for absolutely no good reason. We can maintain all of those qualities you value so highly whilst still having unencumbered trade with the EU. We might even get services equivalence out of it - badgering the EU into opening up their internal services market would be just as good for them as it would be for us.
    Well ok. But I suspect we would find the price unacceptable.
    As you point out, if the EU opened up their internal services market it would be good for both parties. But politically, I doubt the EU (and particularly the French) would entertain it, without some punitive clause the price of which was worse than the benefit.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,420
    @kaitlancollins

    Director Gabbard says there was no classified material on the group chat. Sen. Warner asks why it can’t be shared with the committee then.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,530
    GIN1138 said:

    Yeah, lets reopen Brexit again! Just what we need! Brilliant idea! 😂
    It’s a great idea! Only anti-growth Brexit obsessives will be against it. Besides, the Brexit referendum result will still be respected: there’s no need for us to re-join the EU to gain the majority of the economic benefits.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,420
    Brexit looks even dumber today than it did yesterday, and it was fucking stupid then...
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,911
    Fishing said:

    On the water industry, here is some good news, though I know posting bad news is much more fashionable.

    A Yale University study ranks the UK 1= out of 180 countries for drinking water and sanitation safety.

    https://epi.yale.edu/measure/2024/H2O

    And don't drink the water in Chad.

    Isn't the water in London so clean because it has already been through 7 pairs of kidneys?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,583
    Foxy said:

    It's obvious though that the quickest spur to growth would be rejoining the SM.


    It's only the anti-growth coalition that cannot see that.
    And the fundamental difference remains:

    People like you, who like the politics, present it as an economic argument

    People who view it as primarily a political project that isn’t right for the UK don’t care about the economics.

    Yes, growth would be faster if we were in the single market. But it’s not worth the freedoms and flexibility that we would give up
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,163
    eek said:

    I look at this and think - what’s the problem https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62xy53w863o

    Round here the Catholic Secondary schools run a Lourdes pilgrimage in Easter week. Which means for the past 30 years Catholic schools have had different holidays to other schools in the same town not even different counties

    That's in term time, surely?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,746
    edited March 25

    And the fundamental difference remains:

    People like you, who like the politics, present it as an economic argument

    People who view it as primarily a political project that isn’t right for the UK don’t care about the economics.

    Yes, growth would be faster if we were in the single market. But it’s not worth the freedoms and flexibility that we would give up
    That wasn't what Leave promised. They would have lost if they had gone with that tagline.

    There is a simple option to spur growth and fix the national finances, it's just not one that the Blimps like.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,530
    Cookie said:

    Well ok. But I suspect we would find the price unacceptable.
    As you point out, if the EU opened up their internal services market it would be good for both parties. But politically, I doubt the EU (and particularly the French) would entertain it, without some punitive clause the price of which was worse than the benefit.
    If the EU want to cut their collective noses off to spite their (and our) face, then so be it. But the mood music from the EU has always been that they would love to have the UK back in the fold. There’s room for a positive outcome for all sides that respects the outcome of the Brexit referendum whilst undoing the worst effects on the UK economy of the Boris deal.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,260
    Pretty punchy response from Lowe to the Reform investigation I see. It seems to save the vitriol for Farage and Reform leadership whilst seeming exasperated and baffled by the allegations, which is probably more effective tactically than ranting the whole way through.

    Curious if Lowe is succeeding in retaining a following at all.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,163
    edited March 25
    Brains Trust.

    I have just had a "Personal Representative of (mum)" email from Equiniti concerning a share holding, when we wrapped up her estate the best part of 2 years ago. And I thought it was all done.

    How does one deal with orphan left over assets that were missed, and what happens? We had major problems with the original solicitor, and had to change midstream, which could be the why. I was also dealing with a Leukemia diagnosis / treatment at the time, which did not help.

    (It's Rolls-Royce so it's up about 8x, which is useful and will cover any tax - though it's only a small holding. I expect tax, as there was iHT on the estate.)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,439
    Foxy said:

    That wasn't what Leave promised. They would have lost if they had gone with that tagine.

    There is a simple option to spur growth and fix the national finances, it's just not one that the Blimps like.
    What Labour are delivering on the economy isn't what they promised, but that doesn't invalidate the election.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,428
    Phil said:

    If the EU want to cut their collective noses off to spite their (and our) face, then so be it. But the mood music from the EU has always been that they would love to have the UK back in the fold. There’s room for a positive outcome for all sides that respects the outcome of the Brexit referendum whilst undoing the worst effects on the UK economy of the Boris deal.
    Well yes 350 million a week is not to be sniffed at, is it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,215
    Scott_xP said:

    @kaitlancollins

    Director Gabbard says there was no classified material on the group chat. Sen. Warner asks why it can’t be shared with the committee then.

    They are so exposed to their lies by bringing in an outsider with no interest in bailing them out.

    Mass resignations all round - if they had an ounce of honour.

    But they don't even have trace elements of it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,845

    And the fundamental difference remains:

    People like you, who like the politics, present it as an economic argument

    People who view it as primarily a political project that isn’t right for the UK don’t care about the economics.

    Yes, growth would be faster if we were in the single market. But it’s not worth the freedoms and flexibility that we would give up
    Indeed. But you're very much in the minority.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,845

    What Labour are delivering on the economy isn't what they promised, but that doesn't invalidate the election.
    No, but there will be another vote in due course.
    Good on you for accepting that logic.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,746
    edited March 25

    What Labour are delivering on the economy isn't what they promised, but that doesn't invalidate the election.
    Joining the SM doesn't invalidate the Brexit vote either. It's perfectly compatible, indeed promised by some Leave campaigners.

    It's clear though that many here prize their flagshagging to economic growth and closer relations with reliable allies.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,144

    You don't need to be in the single market to jointly develop weaponry and to agree how to fight wars.
    You don't but it makes it easier and cheaper.

    But then that argument applies across the board and the defence case should just be used as an example as to why it's a sensible policy overall.
  • trukattrukat Posts: 47
    Nigelb said:

    Indeed. But you're very much in the minority.
    So have Labour put it in a manifesto at a general election then. The last one said no freedom of movement, and that needs to be honoured.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,145
    MattW said:

    Brains Trust.

    I have just had a "Personal Representative of (mum)" email from Equiniti concerning a share holding, when we wrapped up her estate the best part of 2 years ago. And I thought it was all done.

    How does one deal with orphan left over assets that were missed, and what happens? We had major problems with the original solicitor, and had to change midstream, which could be the why. I was also dealing with a Leukemia diagnosis / treatment at the time, which did not help.

    (It's Rolls-Royce so it's up about 8x, which is useful and will cover any tax - though it's only a small holding. I expect tax, as there was iHT on the estate.)

    Equitini usually charge an arm and a leg to sell shares they hold
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,144
    IanB2 said:

    Apart from a similar poll rating late Feb, it must be the highest, or one of such, since the early days of the coalition?
    There was a period around / after the European elections in 2019 when the Lib Dems were regularly in the low-20s. But apart from that, yes.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,764
    kle4 said:

    Pretty punchy response from Lowe to the Reform investigation I see. It seems to save the vitriol for Farage and Reform leadership whilst seeming exasperated and baffled by the allegations, which is probably more effective tactically than ranting the whole way through.

    Curious if Lowe is succeeding in retaining a following at all.

    Must admit I'd never heard of Rupert Lowe until he had this bust up with Farage.

    If REF eventually throw Nigel overboard and install Lowe (or another complete non-entity) it will be a major boost for Kemi and CON.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,215
    Eabhal said:

    I can't turn it off

    Politicalbetting.com’s far ye can gie yer neb in tae aa the crack aboot politics an tak a flyer on fae’s gan tae land in power. Ye’ll see a puckle o loons an quines arguin aboot fitwey polls are swingin an fae’s lik tae haud the reins. It’s nae jist havin a blether—ye can pit yer siller doon an hae a richt guid bash at winnin somehin. Fit mair div ye wint tae ken, min?
    Could have been worse. You could be stuck with Arnold RImmer.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-ZiI3iVgpM
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,424

    Well yes 350 million a week is not to be sniffed at, is it.
    No, especially if it gives a boost to our GDP figures.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,428

    You don't but it makes it easier and cheaper.

    But then that argument applies across the board and the defence case should just be used as an example as to why it's a sensible policy overall.
    I've always been in favour of the single market and against political union. That might be seen as cakism by some, but I think its fine to know what you want.

    I voted remain but much of what the EU does and did frustrated me. I believe in small government and reduced bureaucracy where possible. The idea of constantly moving between two cities for reasons was anathema to me. And don't get me started on the talking shop that is the European parliament.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,163
    Taz said:

    Equitini usually charge an arm and a leg to sell shares they hold
    Hmmm. Looks like £50 charge. The stake is around £1000.

    If it avoided fuss and bother, we'd probably give it to charity.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,439
    Foxy said:

    Joining the SM doesn't invalidate the Brexit vote either. It's perfectly compatible, indeed promised by some Leave campaigners.

    It's clear though that many here prize their flagshagging to economic growth and closer relations with reliable allies.
    There are good reasons for the right to want closer relations with the Europe of Meloni and Merz, but it's less clear what's in it for the left.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,420
    Nigelb said:

    "Totalitarianism in power invariably replaces all first-rate talents, regardless of their sympathies, with those crackpots and fools whose lack of intelligence and creativity is still the best guarantee of their loyalty."

    — Hannah Arendt
    There are a number of very low IQ individuals round the cabinet table

    And this guy...

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1904539770677534947
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,873
    Leon said:

    I’m not even sure it’s an accidental leak

    Oh, here you go again with your (lab) leaks theories!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,063
    Black sea truce agreed according to Kyiv Independent Telegram.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,873

    What Labour are delivering on the economy isn't what they promised, but that doesn't invalidate the election.
    They have a mandate to deliver within five years. If they don't they are out.

    The non-mandatory (advisory) in/out referendum didn't work like that as you well know being as you are a former Eurofederalist who was demanding a second plebicite.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    edited March 25

    The Brexit vote is null now anyway. The mandate from it expired as soon as we left. You can't hold an electorate hostage to a decision taken in the past if the will is there to change it. Labour campaigned to leave the EEC in 1983 despite the 1975 vote; we're already past the equivalent point now post-2016.
    But we only want a Rejoin ref if it's a slam dunk for yes. It needs to be formalising and executing a decision that the public (evidenced by polls) has already made. So well over 60% stable settled support. What we don't want is another supercharged divisive nailbiter. That would be to repeat the original mistake. It would be crazy.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,873
    ...
    kinabalu said:

    But we only want a Rejoin ref if it's a slam dunk for yes. It needs to be formalising and executing a decision that the public (evidenced by polls) has already made. So well over 60% stable settled support. What we don't want is another supercharged passionate nailbiter. That would be to repeat the original mistake. It would be crazy.
    We have a grim problem which will preclude us from returning as full members. If every election replaces a pro -EU Government with a Euro sceptic government and vice-versa the EU will tire of our hokey cokey membership terms.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,163
    The Kyiv Independent

    ⚡️Russia, Ukraine agree to eliminate 'use of force' in Black Sea, US to help restore Russia's access to markets.

    The U.S., Russia and Ukraine have agreed to "eliminate the use of force" and prevent the use of commercial vessels for military purposes in the Black Sea following two-day talks in Saudi Arabia, the White House announced on March 25.

    Washington also vowed to help restore Russia’s access to the world market for agricultural and fertilizer exports, lower maritime insurance costs, and enhance access to ports and payment systems for such transactions.

    https://t.me/KyivIndependent_official/43367
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,420
    Uh, oh...

    @NatashaBertrand
    Gabbard now says, "I believe there was discussion around targets in general" in the chat, but says "I don't remember" a mention of specific targets and doesn't "recall" mention of specific weapons systems. Ratcliffe also says "I don't recall."

    https://x.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1904560047796998581
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,260
    edited March 25
    Scott_xP said:

    Uh, oh...

    @NatashaBertrand
    Gabbard now says, "I believe there was discussion around targets in general" in the chat, but says "I don't remember" a mention of specific targets and doesn't "recall" mention of specific weapons systems. Ratcliffe also says "I don't recall."

    https://x.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1904560047796998581

    Falling back on 'i don't recall' excuses this early is concerning.

    A shame such senior people were involved, slightly less and even US political polarization would admit it was a problem.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,144
    kinabalu said:

    But we only want a Rejoin ref if it's a slam dunk for yes. It needs to be formalising and executing a decision that the public (evidenced by polls) has already made. So well over 60% stable settled support. What we don't want is another supercharged divisive nailbiter. That would be to repeat the original mistake. It would be crazy.
    I'd agree with that. And I'd add the rider that any Rejoin campaign needs to be open and honest that there is a political dimension and that co-operation is a good thing; it's not just a Common Market (though it is that too and that's also a good thing). The road to Brexit began with the Maastricht opt-outs and the belief that Britain could exercise influence over the future direction while not being in the room, other than by consistently attempting to apply the brake.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,384
    Leon said:

    That would be a telling argument if this was a normal American government. It is not
    Fair point.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,260

    ...

    We have a grim problem which will preclude us from returning as full members. If every election replaces a pro -EU Government with a Euro sceptic government and vice-versa the EU will tire of our hokey cokey membership terms.
    Yes, until support is overwhelming and sustained its not in their interest to entertain a return.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,063
    Black sea truce seems to be getting negative reactions from both Kyiv Independent and The_Wrong_Side Telegram groups which are diametrically opposed on their view of the war.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,428

    I'd agree with that. And I'd add the rider that any Rejoin campaign needs to be open and honest that there is a political dimension and that co-operation is a good thing; it's not just a Common Market (though it is that too and that's also a good thing). The road to Brexit began with the Maastricht opt-outs and the belief that Britain could exercise influence over the future direction while not being in the room, other than by consistently attempting to apply the brake.
    The road to brexit also had many points where the British voters were denied a vote on changes to our membership of the EEC. When other countries sought democratic approval for changes our powers that be said 'no need for you chaps to worry about that, we've got you covered'.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,063
    I think the political dynamics internally in Russia are such that Putin will be under far more pressure on his right flank from the Liberal Democratics than anywhere else even if he comes away from Ukraine with a great chunk of land he didn't have before.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,420
    @NatashaBertrand

    Both Ratcliffe and Gabbard are now saying they would refer questions to
    @SecDef about whether he declassified information about Houthi operations prior to sharing it in the Signal chat.

    Gabbard won't say whether she was using her work phone or her personal phone.

    https://x.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1904563968619720927
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,215
    kle4 said:

    Falling back on 'i don't recall' excuses this early is concerning.

    A shame such senior people were involved, slightly less and even US political polarization would admit it was a problem.
    The US has a Cabinet comprised of Alzheimers sufferers.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,420
    @EdKrassen

    BREAKING: It appears as though Tulsi Gabbard and John Ratcliffe are either playing stupid or just blatantly lying about what the signal conversations included.

    The Atlantic's editor-in-chief Jeffrey Goldberg said the messages did in fact include specific details about target names and times of attacks.

    We need a full-blown investigation now!

    https://x.com/EdKrassen/status/1904555485312737791

    @DPJHodges

    Think people are slightly misunderstanding what's going on here. Gabbard/Ratcliffe are actually preparing to throw Hegseth under the bus. Line appears to be they think no sensitive material was released because it's what he's told them. When he's shown to be lying they'll pivot.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1904565312273408089
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,420
    @Acyn

    Question: Were you using your private phone or public phone for the signal discussions?

    Gabbard: I won't speak to this because it's under review

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1904564598369657048
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,330

    The road to brexit also had many points where the British voters were denied a vote on changes to our membership of the EEC. When other countries sought democratic approval for changes our powers that be said 'no need for you chaps to worry about that, we've got you covered'.
    It would also pretty well reunite the 44-49% right/centre right vote.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,439
    Scott_xP said:

    @Acyn

    Question: Were you using your private phone or public phone for the signal discussions?

    Gabbard: I won't speak to this because it's under review

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1904564598369657048

    "Speak to" is one of the most annoying Americanisms.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,063
    Scott_xP said:

    @Acyn

    Question: Were you using your private phone or public phone for the signal discussions?

    Gabbard: I won't speak to this because it's under review

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1904564598369657048

    Is there a gotcha either way on this one ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,439
    edited March 25
    Sean_F said:

    It would also pretty well reunite the 44-49% right/centre right vote.
    I'm not so sure about that. There are a lot of divisions given that there is a direct line from Brexit to the Boriswave (even if the Boriswave might have happened regardless if you compare with Canada and Australia).
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,911
    trukat said:

    So have Labour put it in a manifesto at a general election then. The last one said no freedom of movement, and that needs to be honoured.
    Do you support all Labour manifesto commitments?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,420
    Pulpstar said:

    Is there a gotcha either way on this one ?
    And what is under review? Whether she knows which phone she was using?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,420
    Meanwhile, this fucking genius is still at work...

    @bpolitics

    Elon Musk’s demand for federal workers to submit five bullet points detailing their week’s work has hit a new snag: the inbox is full

    https://x.com/bpolitics/status/1904569309411627315
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,278
    This really is a magnificent coastline

    The “occult” town of Piriápolis, laid out on sacred energy lines by a mad alchemist. Or maybe he just looked at the beach and thought Wow, great place to live



  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,517

    "Speak to" is one of the most annoying Americanisms.
    White Americans mostly. Black Americans often say "Speak on it".
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,752
    Sean_F said:

    It would also pretty well reunite the 44-49% right/centre right vote.
    I am not sure about that. There were/are plenty of us that are politically right of centre that think leaving the SM was completely against Britain's interest. I have always felt that if there had been a three option vote that also offered EEA type option this would have won, and perhaps that is what should be offered now if they would have us.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,222

    I am not sure about that. There were/are plenty of us that are politically right of centre that think leaving the SM was completely against Britain's interest. I have always felt that if there had been a three option vote that also offered EEA type option this would have won, and perhaps that is what should be offered now if they would have us.
    Especially as presenting three options is a classic way to nudge people towards picking the middle one :-)

    No doubt there would have been big arguments about "pick one" Vs "preference order" voting on it. (I always thought it was a mistake to have only yes/no votes back when MPs were going through that "indicative vote" business, for that matter.)
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,583
    Foxy said:

    That wasn't what Leave promised. They would have lost if they had gone with that
    tagline.

    There is a simple option to spur growth and fix the national finances, it's just not one that the Blimps like.
    And the cost, in the eyes of people who disagree with you, is too high.

    Economics is not the only thing that matters in life.

    And insulting your fellow country folk achieves nothing except exposure your lack of arguments
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,439
    Leon said:

    This really is a magnificent coastline

    The “occult” town of Piriápolis, laid out on sacred energy lines by a mad alchemist. Or maybe he just looked at the beach and thought Wow, great place to live



    Maybe temperate South America is the West's best hope. The whole region has so much potential and Milei seems to be succeeding in turning Argentina around. There's no reason why it couldn't be at least as rich as Europe.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    Scott_xP said:

    Uh, oh...

    @NatashaBertrand
    Gabbard now says, "I believe there was discussion around targets in general" in the chat, but says "I don't remember" a mention of specific targets and doesn't "recall" mention of specific weapons systems. Ratcliffe also says "I don't recall."

    https://x.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1904560047796998581

    I remember when Hillary Clinton's emails were an absolute scandal.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,869
    eek said:

    I look at this and think - what’s the problem https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62xy53w863o

    Round here the Catholic Secondary schools run a Lourdes pilgrimage in Easter week. Which means for the past 30 years Catholic schools have had different holidays to other schools in the same town not even different counties

    The main purpose of Holy Days of Obligation was to hoy stones at the heathen Proddy kids on their way to school.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,915
    edited March 25
    MattW said:

    The Kyiv Independent

    ⚡️Russia, Ukraine agree to eliminate 'use of force' in Black Sea, US to help restore Russia's access to markets.

    The U.S., Russia and Ukraine have agreed to "eliminate the use of force" and prevent the use of commercial vessels for military purposes in the Black Sea following two-day talks in Saudi Arabia, the White House announced on March 25.

    Washington also vowed to help restore Russia’s access to the world market for agricultural and fertilizer exports, lower maritime insurance costs, and enhance access to ports and payment systems for such transactions.

    https://t.me/KyivIndependent_official/43367

    Given that the only remaining Russian naval forces in most of the Black sea are their recently expanded submarine squadron, none of which seem to be functional, it is really not obvious what is in this deal for Ukraine. Why would they want Russian trade to expand? Why would they want to run the risk of more munitions or drones being sneaked in by "grain ships"? Why would they want to leave such easy targets alone?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,583
    Scott_xP said:

    There are a number of very low IQ individuals round the cabinet table

    And this guy...

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1904539770677534947
    In fairness to Musk, he is clearly not invited to the cpnversation that the President is having. So he’s distracting himself and the young lady he is with instead
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    Leon said:

    This really is a magnificent coastline

    The “occult” town of Piriápolis, laid out on sacred energy lines by a mad alchemist. Or maybe he just looked at the beach and thought Wow, great place to live


    Very nice.
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