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Labour are starting to own the economy – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,394
    ohnotnow said:

    Do you ever read back your own posts and think 'wtf does this mean?'.
    Nope

    Perhaps if you are reading a blog named for politics, you might enjoy it more if you actually took an interest in politics, stuff that is happening in the World, right now...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,480
    HYUFD said:

    We were when we had more grammar schools.

    Of course most footballers and entrepreneurs and pop stars and soap and reality stars and influencers are state educated
    Most Labour MPs state educated too
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,332
    Anyway, enough about the dodgyness of some of my schooling. Now that we're finding some of the probable genetic roots of ADHD etc, we're going to have to actually come to a functional position on what we try and fix and what we don't. And how we cope with societies that make different decisions around this.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,820
    Scott_xP said:

    WH press secretary Karoline Leavitt:

    “President Trump continues to have the utmost confidence in his national security team, including National Security Advisor Mike Waltz.”

    ‘Course he does; he’s an idiot.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,557
    edited March 24
    Scott_xP said:

    Nope

    Perhaps if you are reading a blog named for politics, you might enjoy it more if you actually took an interest in politics, stuff that is happening in the World, right now...
    I do - but you post things like 'New phone, Houthis' with an @ that goes nowhere. I mean - LOL and whatnot. But is it a huge amount to at least post a link to the source? Otherwise the massive contribution is somewhat diminished as I can't pass on LOL and whatnot to anyone else, or confirm it, or bookmark it, or.... use it or believe it or deny it on any way.

    If I post :
    @ Scott_xP

    LOLWUT I LUV TRUMP NEW PHONE
    I personally know that is a massive contribution that I don't need to read back, which would be lapped up by every connoisseur of political debate. But personally, it's not that useful.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,149
    edited March 24
    Reported today on Ukraine the Latest.

    Individual in the USA giving $20 via Paypal to a Ukraine supporting charity receives a phone call (for the first time) from the bank connected to his Paypal account that they have been contacted by the US Govt Office for Foreign Asset Control demaning reasons and details, since Ukraine has been placed on a list of hostile foreign countries by the US Government - they report.

    https://youtu.be/yhtZXbd5M9s?t=1161
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,424
    Foss said:

    Anyway, enough about the dodgyness of some of my schooling. Now that we're finding some of the probable genetic roots of ADHD etc, we're going to have to actually come to a functional position on what we try and fix and what we don't. And how we cope with societies that make different decisions around this.

    Although that study seems to be in zebra fish, so more work needs to be done.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,517
    ohnotnow said:

    I do - but you post things like 'New phone, Houthis' with an @ that goes nowhere. I mean - LOL and whatnot. But is it a huge amount to at least post a link to the source? Otherwise the massive contribution is somewhat diminished as I can't pass on LOL and whatnot to anyone else, or confirm it, or bookmark it, or.... use it or believe it or deny it on any way.

    If I post :
    &Scott_xP

    LOLWUT I LUV TRUMP NEW PHONE
    I personally know that is a massive contribution that I don't need to read back, which would be lapped up by every connoisseur of political debate. But personally, it's not that useful.

    Scott done done a pun:

    https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/new-phone-who-dis
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,990
    ohnotnow said:

    Do you ever read back your own posts and think 'wtf does this mean?'.
    It's a miracle actually.. normally its Scott n Paste as tim late of this parish "christened" him.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,149
    edited March 24
    I wonder if the portrait of President Chump given to Mike Waltz by President Putin has the same type of listenting device in it as the the Great Seal given to the US Embassy back in the 1950s?

    Thoughts? IMO President Chump is stupid enough to be a mark.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-bemoans-portrait-him-gets-191158804.html
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,557
    carnforth said:

    Scott done done a pun:

    https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/new-phone-who-dis
    I know the meme - but it's the endless, endless unsourced posts just grind me down. Some of them sound quite timely or interesting - but no links. And twitter (maybe it's bluesky, insta, tiktok - we have no way of knowing) doesn't let you search unless you have an account so even if you were doing the work he couldn't be arsed with - no go.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,993
    MattW said:

    Reported today on Ukraine the Latest.

    Individual in the USA giving $20 via Paypal to a Ukraine supporting charity receives a phone call (for the first time) from the bank connected to his Paypal account that they have been contacted by the US Govt Office for Foreign Asset Control demaning reasons and details, since Ukraine has been placed on a list of hostile foreign countries by the US Government - they report.

    https://youtu.be/yhtZXbd5M9s?t=1161

    Pretty horrendous, if true. (Because the Colin Powell story, for example, was not *entirely* true.)
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,378

    @BartholomewRoberts people don’t really want growth. They just want wealth. For themselves, primarily. This is the inherent contradiction in British political culture. They want things to stay exactly the same, but just a little bit better. That’s my experience anyway.

    Hence the desire for rising house prices and inheritances.
  • BBC's "The Pandemic 5 years on" documentary seems determined to cement that "lockdown was a necessary evil" narrative by focussing on a few sad stories..🧐
  • glwglw Posts: 10,288
    Nigelb said:

    ‘Course he does; he’s an idiot.
    We already knew that Trump was an idiot, but we now have confirmation that so are almost all of his senior Cabinet officials. There must be a decent chance that at least one of them has a phone that was compromised, they would certainly be targets. If they are dumb enough to be conducting government business on unapproved phones using unapproved apps there is a fair chance that those phones aren't being monitored or sanitised, and are therefore potentially vulnerable.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,733

    Although that study seems to be in zebra fish, so more work needs to be done.
    The universal conclusion for all research papers:

    ...so more work needs to be done.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,820
    ohnotnow said:

    I do - but you post things like 'New phone, Houthis' with an @ that goes nowhere. I mean - LOL and whatnot. But is it a huge amount to at least post a link to the source? Otherwise the massive contribution is somewhat diminished as I can't pass on LOL and whatnot to anyone else, or confirm it, or bookmark it, or.... use it or believe it or deny it on any way.

    If I post :
    @ Scott_xP

    LOLWUT I LUV TRUMP NEW PHONE
    I personally know that is a massive contribution that I don't need to read back, which would be lapped up by every connoisseur of political debate. But personally, it's not that useful.

    Going to be an all time record of congressional Republicans lying about not having seen this story tonight and tomorrow
    https://x.com/Fritschner/status/1904239509811912716
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,424

    BBC's "The Pandemic 5 years on" documentary seems determined to cement that "lockdown was a necessary evil" narrative by focussing on a few sad stories..🧐

    Scientific consensus is that the first lockdown WAS a necessary evil. Probably the later ones too, before the pandemic rollout to the most vulnerable.

    I know it’s become fashionable to claim the opposite now, and one shouldn’t ignore the downsides of lockdown, it was a crisis with very few levers to be pulled.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,332
    Foxy said:

    The universal conclusion for all research papers:

    ...so more work needs to be done.
    ...for which we will need more cash. And a bribable ethics panel...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,733
    rcs1000 said:

    I believe the actual term is "back when Britain was truly Great."
    Rum, sodomy and the lash. Marvellous.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,394
    glw said:

    We already knew that Trump was an idiot, but we now have confirmation that so are almost all of his senior Cabinet officials. There must be a decent chance that at least one of them has a phone that was compromised, they would certainly be targets. If they are dumb enough to be conducting government business on unapproved phones using unapproved apps there is a fair chance that those phones aren't being monitored or sanitised, and are therefore potentially vulnerable.
    How are we feeling about 5 eyes tonight, then...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,733
    glw said:

    We already knew that Trump was an idiot, but we now have confirmation that so are almost all of his senior Cabinet officials. There must be a decent chance that at least one of them has a phone that was compromised, they would certainly be targets. If they are dumb enough to be conducting government business on unapproved phones using unapproved apps there is a fair chance that those phones aren't being monitored or sanitised, and are therefore potentially vulnerable.
    The only safe assumption to make is that all communications shared with the Americans are now compromised and read by the Russians.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,847

    This is someone much more demented than Biden ever was.
    Are you allowed to refer to William as demented? Oh you mean Trump!
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,421

    To give some context in why I feel this way - I teach relatively bright (AAB at A level) pharmacy students, an astonishingly high number of which claim extra time in exams and other adaptations. A 10 minute exercise becomes 12 minutes 30 seconds for them.

    In almost all cases there is no evidence of why this is needed other than that they are gaming the system.

    The real world tends not to tolerate such adaptation, but we cosset at school and Uni like crazy to keep them happy.
    I'm not sure how universities do their testing, but as a specialist assessor at school and exams officer before I retired, I know that to get extra time in exams there needs to be psychometric testing done. The candidate needs to demonstrate a standardised score of below 85 in 2 areas, accompanied by normal way of working and a report by the school senco.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,410
    Scott_xP said:

    @KarinaVinnikova

    Very serious administration


    I suppose at least they're using Signal. Ours are still using Whatsapp afaik.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,930
    Scott_xP said:

    How are we feeling about 5 eyes tonight, then...
    Starmer is too busy begging for scraps from Trump to say much about the security situation.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,421

    I'm not sure how universities do their testing, but as a specialist assessor at school and exams officer before I retired, I know that to get extra time in exams there needs to be psychometric testing done. The candidate needs to demonstrate a standardised score of below 85 in 2 areas, accompanied by normal way of working and a report by the school senco.
    The areas under test need to be speed of working.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,288
    Scott_xP said:

    How are we feeling about 5 eyes tonight, then...
    Well at least they have given us a good excuse for cutting back intelligence sharing.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,424

    I'm not sure how universities do their testing, but as a specialist assessor at school and exams officer before I retired, I know that to get extra time in exams there needs to be psychometric testing done. The candidate needs to demonstrate a standardised score of below 85 in 2 areas, accompanied by normal way of working and a report by the school senco.
    I’m not convinced our systems are that rigorous. And I certainly don’t believe that all the ones claiming it actually need it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,847
    Foxy said:

    They need to be properly assessed, but there certainly are people disabled by psychiatric disease to the point of needing PIP to live independently.

    If finance is driving assessment then the cart is before the horse.
    I agree Foxy, but there are far too many taking the piss which is why unfortunately the baby is being thrown out with the bathwater. I suspect this cynical Conservative - lite government also opines that not many votes are saved supporting "scroungers".
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,332

    I suppose at least they're using Signal. Ours are still using Whatsapp afaik.
    I miss the old days when this stuff was just printed out and accidentally waved in front of journos.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,421

    I’m not convinced our systems are that rigorous. And I certainly don’t believe that all the ones claiming it actually need it.
    The areas under test would be reading speed or comprehension speed, writing speed or phonological processing speed. I suspect if there's a lot of reading in the exams that's what they need it for.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,820
    Hegseth on Hillary: “imagine if it was the military”…
    https://x.com/SarahLongwell25/status/1904244780831478144
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,421

    The areas under test would be reading speed or comprehension speed, writing speed or phonological processing speed. I suspect if there's a lot of reading in the exams that's what they need it for.
    Do you find that many claim the use of a word processor in exams?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,379

    Hence the desire for rising house prices and inheritances.
    I disagree slightly. For many people it's not so much about themselves but for their family. They want their children to be better off and to have a better life. That's a human nature thing and has always been a part of our economics and our politics.

    It's when the next generation ends up worse off than the previous generation (or when that has been the expectation or perception) that you get problems.

    Part of securing that improvement is inheritance - what can I pass on in asset terms to give my children a better future? - but it's also about maintaining a degree of stability though I'd argue in societal, cultural and technological terms, the changes across generations have been profound.

    We are still (just) at the stage when if you were to ask when was the best time to be born, the answer would be "yesterday" but that's nowhere near as clear cut as it was and you have to ask with what kind of world those born now will have to deal in 50-60 years and many find the answers troubling.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,425
    Scott_xP said:

    How are we feeling about 5 eyes tonight, then...
    It's like being in the Eurozone. You can't just leave it if you are integrated to that extent.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,820
    Nigelb said:

    Hegseth on Hillary: “imagine if it was the military”…
    https://x.com/SarahLongwell25/status/1904244780831478144

    There’s a Marco video too, of course.
    https://x.com/marcorubio/status/686936237303836677
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,379
    A crushing win for England tonight - to a point. One step nearer an England-New Zealand World Cup Final next year.

    Before long, we'll be up against the footballing titans of Andorra - a country ranked 171st in the FIFA rankings with a population roughly equivalent to Weston-super-Mare.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,847
    edited March 24
    Foxy said:

    Rum, sodomy and the lash. Marvellous.
    That reminds me. What are this year's diary dates for the Tory Conference?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,993

    Scientific consensus is that the first lockdown WAS a necessary evil. Probably the later ones too, before the pandemic rollout to the most vulnerable.

    I know it’s become fashionable to claim the opposite now, and one shouldn’t ignore the downsides of lockdown, it was a crisis with very few levers to be pulled.
    I think the problem is that "lockdown" is a word that covers a wide variety of sins.

    California / Los Angeles had a lockdown. But compared to the UK one, it was mild indeed. We could still see our friends, and there were basically no restrictions on outside activities at all.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,820
    Nigelb said:

    There’s a Marco video too, of course.
    https://x.com/marcorubio/status/686936237303836677
    So that’s Tulsi, Marco, and Whiskey Pete all on record that they should be prosecuted.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,288

    I suppose at least they're using Signal. Ours are still using Whatsapp afaik.
    WhatsApp and Signal are broadly equivalent, both of them have very good cryptographic security.

    The issue isn't that the messages are being intercepted in transit. So in terms of secrecy/confidentiality using Signal is not a disaster. In fact it likely has superior cyptography to many government systems.

    No the issues with them using Signal are thing like this:

    There is no access control, a random journalist was added to a group.

    There is no effective authentication, who are they really communicating with?

    They were almost certainly using public networks.

    If they were using the devices and services they were meant to then a random person would not be able to join a group, each user would access the system with authentication that required proper enrolement, and they would be using private and secure networks isolated from the internet.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,424
    rcs1000 said:

    I think the problem is that "lockdown" is a word that covers a wide variety of sins.

    California / Los Angeles had a lockdown. But compared to the UK one, it was mild indeed. We could still see our friends, and there were basically no restrictions on outside activities at all.
    That was an issue all along and certainly towards the end. Almost any restriction, even wearing a face mask, was termed lockdown by some.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,847

    It's like being in the Eurozone. You can't just leave it if you are integrated to that extent.
    That doesn't make sense. The issue is one of the 5 eyes is tipping off the enemy and undermining the remaining four. I suspect if a Eurozone nation destabilised the rest of the Eurozone they would be ejected pronto. No Hotel California for them.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,011
    Marco Rubio: "No one is the above law."


    LOL on stilts.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,394
    @justinamash
    The level of incompetence here is mind-blowing.

    But what shouldn’t be overlooked is the specific substance of the group chat.

    There was no emergency.

    The executive branch unlawfully sidestepped Congress, taking military action that top officials admit was elective.

    The discussion establishes unequivocally that the strikes in Yemen are unconstitutional.

    https://x.com/justinamash/status/1904230513478398105
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,820

    That doesn't make sense. The issue is one of the 5 eyes is tipping off the enemy and undermining the remaining four. I suspect if a Eurozone nation destabilised the rest of the Eurozone they would be ejected pronto. No Hotel California for them.
    There is the problem that the US has the majority of the technical intelligence gathering assets, though.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,993
    Saw this, made me laugh:


  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,157
    edited March 24

    Marco Rubio: "No one is the above law."


    LOL on stilts.

    That, presumably, was then. This is now, and hasn't the Supreme Court ruled that the President kind of is above the law, at least in certain circumstances?

    Anyway, if anyone ought to be locked up, it's those nasty bad people at The Atlantic... (continued after 94 words from our incontinence pants sponsor...)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,425

    That doesn't make sense. The issue is one of the 5 eyes is tipping off the enemy and undermining the remaining four. I suspect if a Eurozone nation destabilised the rest of the Eurozone they would be ejected pronto. No Hotel California for them.
    Is our signals intelligence meaningfully separate from the US? It's not a question of us tipping them off if they have access to the information at the same time we do.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,847
    Scott_xP said:

    @justinamash
    The level of incompetence here is mind-blowing.

    But what shouldn’t be overlooked is the specific substance of the group chat.

    There was no emergency.

    The executive branch unlawfully sidestepped Congress, taking military action that top officials admit was elective.

    The discussion establishes unequivocally that the strikes in Yemen are unconstitutional.

    https://x.com/justinamash/status/1904230513478398105

    I think people are confusing this administration with an administration that gives a f***.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,820

    Marco Rubio: "No one is the above law."

    LOL on stilts.

    Fox host Will Cain's take away from The Atlantic scoop is that Americans should be "proud" these are our leaders..
    https://x.com/LisPower1/status/1904269804082434110

    Good enough for william ?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794

    Scientific consensus is that the first lockdown WAS a necessary evil. Probably the later ones too, before the pandemic rollout to the most vulnerable.

    I know it’s become fashionable to claim the opposite now, and one shouldn’t ignore the downsides of lockdown, it was a crisis with very few levers to be pulled.
    More and more I've come to realise that people die from diseases, fat and old ones even more than usual. The degree to which we sacrificed as a nation to add a few months of life expectancy to the old and the obese was way too high.

    The Boris Johnson government will undoubtedly go down in history as the worst in the post war era.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,906
    HYUFD said:

    We were when we had more grammar schools.

    Of course most footballers and entrepreneurs and pop stars and soap and reality stars and influencers are state educated
    Many pop stars and soap stars went to private "stage" schools but people are meant to act surprised when the cast of a soap can do a song and dance routine for Comic Relief.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,847

    Is our signals intelligence meaningfully separate from the US? It's not a question of us tipping them off if they have access to the information at the same time we do.
    I think we can rightly be critical of Starmer's Government for allowing intelligence gathering to become far too US-centred. His Government should have been very aware that we were sharing intelligence on our enemies with a potentially hostile power, and in turn we were overly reliant on that hostile power for our intelligence.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,011
    Nigelb said:

    Fox host Will Cain's take away from The Atlantic scoop is that Americans should be "proud" these are our leaders..
    https://x.com/LisPower1/status/1904269804082434110

    Good enough for william ?
    Pravda increasingly looking like the NY Times in terms of balance compared to Fox News.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,612
    Some of the reforms Liz Kendall announced (scrap pointless assessments for people who can't get better) or let people keep their benefits if they try to get back into work and it doesn't work out seem unambiguously a good idea.

    But I feel very uncomfortable about this happening to the backdrop of the treasury looking for an artificial savings number to meet a budget forecast. The last lot tried to announce away problems - it didn't work for them and it won't work for labour either.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,424
    MaxPB said:

    More and more I've come to realise that people die from diseases, fat and old ones even more than usual. The degree to which we sacrificed as a nation to add a few months of life expectancy to the old and the obese was way too high.

    The Boris Johnson government will undoubtedly go down in history as the worst in the post war era.
    Also - did you not see Starmers approach? It would have been far more restrictive.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,011
    Scott_xP said:

    @justinamash
    The level of incompetence here is mind-blowing.

    But what shouldn’t be overlooked is the specific substance of the group chat.

    There was no emergency.

    The executive branch unlawfully sidestepped Congress, taking military action that top officials admit was elective.

    The discussion establishes unequivocally that the strikes in Yemen are unconstitutional.

    https://x.com/justinamash/status/1904230513478398105

    Gotta laugh that one of Hegseth's concerns is that this all leaks before action can be taken all the while being on a Signal app with the editor of a magazine, never mind who knows what cyber spying from China.*


    * Russia doesn't need to waste time on this kind of cyber spying now as their assets will just forward all the info from the WH.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,787
    glw said:

    WhatsApp and Signal are broadly equivalent, both of them have very good cryptographic security.

    The issue isn't that the messages are being intercepted in transit. So in terms of secrecy/confidentiality using Signal is not a disaster. In fact it likely has superior cyptography to many government systems.

    No the issues with them using Signal are thing like this:

    There is no access control, a random journalist was added to a group.

    There is no effective authentication, who are they really communicating with?

    They were almost certainly using public networks.

    If they were using the devices and services they were meant to then a random person would not be able to join a group, each user would access the system with authentication that required proper enrolement, and they would be using private and secure networks isolated from the internet.
    WhatsApp is owned by Farcebook and hence is siphoning your personal data. While selling end to end encryption.

    Signal publish their source code - you can even build it yourself and run your own servers.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,288

    WhatsApp is owned by Farcebook and hence is siphoning your personal data. While selling end to end encryption.

    Signal publish their source code - you can even build it yourself and run your own servers.

    True, but either system will get a message from A to B equally securely. Privacy, of contacts and metadata, is a separate issue.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,425

    I think we can rightly be critical of Starmer's Government for allowing intelligence gathering to become far too US-centred. His Government should have been very aware that we were sharing intelligence on our enemies with a potentially hostile power, and in turn we were overly reliant on that hostile power for our intelligence.
    I think it long predates Starmer. You can't really blame him for our being part of the US empire.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,425

    Initial lockdown was more about avoiding the complete collapse of healthcare provision. People dying of other things because the hospitals were full. We have a spectacular ability to use hindsight over the covid period.
    The zombie apocalypse-style videos from China must have also influenced decision making.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794

    Initial lockdown was more about avoiding the complete collapse of healthcare provision. People dying of other things because the hospitals were full. We have a spectacular ability to use hindsight over the covid period.
    As I've said, COVID should have been treated in the home, no hospital visits, anyone testing positive sent home until they were clear of it. I'm under no illusions that this would have led to more deaths up front until there was a viable vaccine to reduce the severity. I would also have not had any furlough scheme and minimal business support and for big businesses cash injections in return for equity. Again, I'm aware this would have led to more unemployment but we wouldn't have any of the current issues where people are finding methods of sitting at home and getting free money from the government by gaming the system.

    Lockdown and all of the measures we took will one day be seen as a disaster, we gave people unlimited kindness and in return we've turned into a nation that doesn't want to work and a population that feels entitled to a high standard of living for zero effort.

    As to your other point, yes I agree it would have been worse under Labour, yet they weren't in charge. Boris and Rishi could have set the tone a lot better. Giving people up to £2.5k per month to sit at home was and remains a terrible policy, especially for as long as the government kept it.
  • Initial lockdown was more about avoiding the complete collapse of healthcare provision. People dying of other things because the hospitals were full. We have a spectacular ability to use hindsight over the covid period.
    Only foresight not hindsight was needed based on the Diamond Princess data..the hospitals never came close to being full and that data easily explained why that would be the case..🧐
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,787
    glw said:

    True, but either system will get a message from A to B equally securely. Privacy, of contacts and metadata, is a separate issue.
    The problem is spyware in the app itself. It hoovers everything in WhatsApp.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,425
    https://x.com/modadgeop/status/1904236655789199617

    You just have to assume that the Trump admin know how they're perceived by the media. They cannot leak anything directly - the media would not run the story the way they want, and would instead spin it in all sorts of ways. They have to find a way to get the media to publish the stories they want published. So, a Trump incompetence story given to a moron like Goldberg makes sense. The Europeans and Egyptians get to see exactly what the Trump admin wants them to see, and because it's an ORANGE MAN BAD story the message remains undiluted and dominates the news cycle.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,011
    Apparently the Kremlin is furious that the Atlantic magazine knew about this attack before one of Trump's cabinet could ring them and fill them in fully with all the details.

    You just can't get the quality of asset these days.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,110

    https://x.com/modadgeop/status/1904236655789199617

    You just have to assume that the Trump admin know how they're perceived by the media. They cannot leak anything directly - the media would not run the story the way they want, and would instead spin it in all sorts of ways. They have to find a way to get the media to publish the stories they want published. So, a Trump incompetence story given to a moron like Goldberg makes sense. The Europeans and Egyptians get to see exactly what the Trump admin wants them to see, and because it's an ORANGE MAN BAD story the message remains undiluted and dominates the news cycle.

    4D chess!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,787

    Only foresight not hindsight was needed based on the Diamond Princess data..the hospitals never came close to being full and that data easily explained why that would be the case..🧐
    Do you have a link to such revelatory data?
  • glwglw Posts: 10,288
    MaxPB said:

    That's a completely stupid take, you would surely not put classified bombing plans in there as "validation" but something else. No, they just fucked up, there's no psyop here.
    Also trying to deflect like this is way too early. You really need to get your hands on every device in the chain of communications in order to examine them, because if any of them are compromised this particular story might not even be the biggest problem. There could be many months of similarly sensitive or worse message that are now in the hands of somebody else.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,787

    4D chess!
    no, it's 16D chess
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,424

    Only foresight not hindsight was needed based on the Diamond Princess data..the hospitals never came close to being full and that data easily explained why that would be the case..🧐
    They never came close to being full is because (a) we locked down and (b) cancelled huge amounts of other things that hospitals do.
    Our response wasn’t perfect, no one’s was, but revisisionist history needs some level of fact behind it, which you won’t provide if you think the Diamond Princess data proved anything.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,787

    Initial lockdown was more about avoiding the complete collapse of healthcare provision. People dying of other things because the hospitals were full. We have a spectacular ability to use hindsight over the covid period.
    IIRC we got to the point that a few patients were moved into a couple of the Nightingale "hospitals"
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,424

    IIRC we got to the point that a few patients were moved into a couple of the Nightingale "hospitals"
    Happily we live in a more caring society than @MaxPB imagines, which comes across as a 21st version of putting a black cross on front doors and locking people in to die.
    We never tried the experiment of just letting it burn through.

    I really don’t get the levels of revisionism that some on here are indulging in.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,787
    On the Signal farce in the US. It's worth considering what the UK Government should do, given similar comedies.

    Running a UK hosted server and apps is actually fairly simple. If you wanted from scratch, you'd be looking at the equivalent of a small startup.

    The system, could then include stuff like security clearance levels to control being invited into rooms, automate recording of what is said and done etc etc...
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 793
    MaxPB said:

    As I've said, COVID should have been treated in the home, no hospital visits, anyone testing positive sent home until they were clear of it. I'm under no illusions that this would have led to more deaths up front until there was a viable vaccine to reduce the severity. I would also have not had any furlough scheme and minimal business support and for big businesses cash injections in return for equity. Again, I'm aware this would have led to more unemployment but we wouldn't have any of the current issues where people are finding methods of sitting at home and getting free money from the government by gaming the system.

    Lockdown and all of the measures we took will one day be seen as a disaster, we gave people unlimited kindness and in return we've turned into a nation that doesn't want to work and a population that feels entitled to a high standard of living for zero effort.

    As to your other point, yes I agree it would have been worse under Labour, yet they weren't in charge. Boris and Rishi could have set the tone a lot better. Giving people up to £2.5k per month to sit at home was and remains a terrible policy, especially for as long as the government kept it.
    You are condemning a lot of people based on the spurious idea that we're "a nation that doesn't want to work and a population that feels entitled to a high standard of living for zero effort." Unemployment is low and the vast majority of people work hard and claim no benefits.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,820

    https://x.com/modadgeop/status/1904236655789199617

    You just have to assume that the Trump admin know how they're perceived by the media. They cannot leak anything directly - the media would not run the story the way they want, and would instead spin it in all sorts of ways. They have to find a way to get the media to publish the stories they want published. So, a Trump incompetence story given to a moron like Goldberg makes sense. The Europeans and Egyptians get to see exactly what the Trump admin wants them to see, and because it's an ORANGE MAN BAD story the message remains undiluted and dominates the news cycle.

    Don't be silly, william.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794

    Happily we live in a more caring society than @MaxPB imagines, which comes across as a 21st version of putting a black cross on front doors and locking people in to die.
    We never tried the experiment of just letting it burn through.

    I really don’t get the levels of revisionism that some on here are indulging in.
    Yes and look at what unlimited kindness has done for us. £38bn per year for "disability" benefits, 9m people inactive, 1 in 5 people employed by the state, a 6.7m NHS waiting list, lowest ever ranking on the global happiness index.

    The country needed and still needs tough love. The government is like a doctor giving out heroin to addicts because they think it's better than the pain of withdrawal.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,378
    MaxPB said:

    More and more I've come to realise that people die from diseases, fat and old ones even more than usual. The degree to which we sacrificed as a nation to add a few months of life expectancy to the old and the obese was way too high.

    The Boris Johnson government will undoubtedly go down in history as the worst in the post war era.
    They couldn't even be bothered to tell the fat slobs to do some exercise.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794

    They couldn't even be bothered to tell the fat slobs to do some exercise.
    But we allow obese people to claim PIP for the obesity instead of telling to get on the bike and start exercising. As I said, the government (Tory and Labour) are content with giving addicts heroin for the votes.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 793
    Foxy said:

    It wasn't just "fat slobs" that died. Young people with heart conditions too.

    And even "fat slobs" deserve to live.
    It seems to be 'pick on anyone not in perfect mental and physical health' night on PB
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,557
    MaxPB said:

    But we allow obese people to claim PIP for the obesity instead of telling to get on the bike and start exercising. As I said, the government (Tory and Labour) are content with giving addicts heroin for the votes.
    We, the PB Eloi are deserving to live. Those Morlocks, f*ck them.

    ...

    Oh, wait. Hang on now. Steady. NOT THE FACE...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,110

    They couldn't even be bothered to tell the fat slobs to do some exercise.
    Shutting down the gyms and eat out to help out was a killer combo.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794
    Stereodog said:

    You are condemning a lot of people based on the spurious idea that we're "a nation that doesn't want to work and a population that feels entitled to a high standard of living for zero effort." Unemployment is low and the vast majority of people work hard and claim no benefits.
    The unemployment statistics are a sham, even the government recognises it hence the drive to reduce the number of people eligible for disability benefits. There is a projection that the state will soon spend £60bn per year on "disability" benefits and more than 5m people will be claiming them. How naïve are you to believe that all of these people are disabled?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,816
    MaxPB said:

    Trevor Phillips on form in The Times today - https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/definition-of-disability-is-losing-its-meaning-k9bc89l5m

    'But while all that may be true, we still carry the torch for social justice higher than most nations. We just seem to have forgotten that someone, somewhere has to pay for it. As my American siblings soberly remind me: “Never let your mouth write a cheque your ass can’t cover.”

    Rachel Reeves, as she contemplates her spring statement, must be wondering why no one foresaw that the huge IOU the last Labour administration wrote to disabled people would one day be called in. The size of the disability benefits bill is running at £39.1 billion; it will rise to at least £58 billion by the end of the parliament — more than we spend on primary schools or the army. And we can’t say we weren’t warned that social justice costs.'

    'In 1995, the Disability Discrimination Act marked a transition from what used to be called the “medical” model of disability to the “social” model. In summary, the old idea was that any impairment was regarded as a deficiency in the person to whom it was attached. The new claim was that people come in all shapes and sizes: what we used to called a disability or deformity wasn’t a deficiency, merely another manifestation of human diversity. It was down to employers, architects, retailers, transport providers and the like to adjust to a new normal.'

    'More broadly, my guess is that experiences common to the human condition — sadness, lapses in concentration, periods of exhaustion — are now being pathologised to an extent that makes the impairment unremarkable and not in any sense a true disability. In short, if everyone becomes disabled, then no one is disabled. In practice those who most need help are being pushed to the back of the queue by people whose claims are dubious.'

    The whole piece is worth reading and one of the reasons I still pay for a subscription to The Times. He's articulating what many of us have said many times on here perfectly. We've medicalised "disability" to such an extend that people are using "mental health" as a catch all for signing up to a £10k pa UBI if you can convince the assessor that you are "deserving". It's time to end the PIP for all mental health claims and shit can UC and move back to JSA and ESA with only in person assessments of disability eligible for enhanced support. Yes it will make a lot of people poorer and yes there will be edge cases that will need resolving, yet if we do nothing the country is heading for the poor house as more and more people decide that they too can sign up for an easy life on PIP.

    Is Kemi Badenoch editing The Times now? Labour was not in office in 1995.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,787
    s
    Stereodog said:

    It seems to be 'pick on anyone not in perfect mental and physical health' night on PB
    What should the new master race look like? As thin as Goering, as blond as Hitler and as tall as Goebbels.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,748
    glw said:

    Also trying to deflect like this is way too early. You really need to get your hands on every device in the chain of communications in order to examine them, because if any of them are compromised this particular story might not even be the biggest problem. There could be many months of similarly sensitive or worse message that are now in the hands of somebody else.
    Can't imagine they have apps on gov devices so all this is going through consumer stuff. Surely the Chinese have a few zero day exploits for these situations.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,816

    The Chinese equivalent of PoliticalBetting.com must be completely and utterly BORING!

    "In this week's opinion poll, the Chinese Communist Party achieved 99.9% approval, unchanged from last week!"
    Most people want to get on with their lives. Most people have no interest in politics. Most people do not want to overthrow the government. This is why the Bush/Blair Iraq war was such a fiasco. The expected uprising to replace Saddam's regime and usher in democracy across the Middle East was never there.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,394
    @vermontgmg.bsky.social‬

    “But her emails!” comparisons can be exhausting, but I’d like you to imagine for a minute what would have happened if Biden National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan had accidentally added Tucker Carlson to a group chat about classified war plans?

    https://bsky.app/profile/vermontgmg.bsky.social/post/3ll5ttfy73c2p
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,557

    On the Signal farce in the US. It's worth considering what the UK Government should do, given similar comedies.

    Running a UK hosted server and apps is actually fairly simple. If you wanted from scratch, you'd be looking at the equivalent of a small startup.

    The system, could then include stuff like security clearance levels to control being invited into rooms, automate recording of what is said and done etc etc...

    I'm not quite clear on how Capita, IBM, Fujitsu etc fit in this plan? You talk like this is fairly easily doable on a modest budget with modest technical skills.

    But... then where are the meetings? The tendering processes? The change-management boards? The Process.

    You talk like the system wouldn't even need a FAX gateway. Madness.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,011

    Pete Buttigieg
    @PeteButtigieg
    ·
    2h
    From an operational security perspective, this is the highest level of fuckup imaginable. These people cannot keep America safe.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,424
    MaxPB said:

    Yes and look at what unlimited kindness has done for us. £38bn per year for "disability" benefits, 9m people inactive, 1 in 5 people employed by the state, a 6.7m NHS waiting list, lowest ever ranking on the global happiness index.

    The country needed and still needs tough love. The government is like a doctor giving out heroin to addicts because they think it's better than the pain of withdrawal.
    It’s fair enough to challenge whether every person who is certified as disabled really is, and what support the state offers. On The Last Leg on Friday it was claimed there were 16 million disabled in the U.K. which seems huge, and surely must include some dubious cases.

    But that doesn’t mean that there was a better, harsher way that would have left us in a better place now.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,940
    MaxPB said:

    Yes and look at what unlimited kindness has done for us. £38bn per year for "disability" benefits, 9m people inactive, 1 in 5 people employed by the state, a 6.7m NHS waiting list, lowest ever ranking on the global happiness index.

    The country needed and still needs tough love. The government is like a doctor giving out heroin to addicts because they think it's better than the pain of withdrawal.
    It's much worse than that - most of those things are in line with long-term trends, with COVID providing a bit of spice on top. For example, obesity was already a big driver of NHS spending, and it's the same people who were most likely to get smashed by COVID.

    Out inactivity rate is explained by students, early retirees and carers. It's a red herring. It's the in-work population that you need to worry about, too many of whom are in unproductive jobs, in poverty and supported by UC.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,424

    Shutting down the gyms and eat out to help out was a killer combo.
    EOTHO is unfairly maligned. It coincided with a new variant being imported from holiday travel to Spain and was a genuine attempt to keep businesses going.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,557

    Most people want to get on with their lives. Most people have no interest in politics. Most people do not want to overthrow the government. This is why the Bush/Blair Iraq war was such a fiasco. The expected uprising to replace Saddam's regime and usher in democracy across the Middle East was never there.
    Not entirely related, but it brought to mind

    Blackadder:
    For God's sake, MacAdder, you are not Rob Roy! You're a top kipper salesman with a reputable firm of Aberdeen fishmongers; don't throw it all away! If you kill the Prince, they'll just send the bailiffs round and arrest you!

    MacAdder:
    Oh blast! I forgot the bailiffs.
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