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Reeves, nearly as bad as Covid and Truss & Kwarteng but Lab still continue to lead on the economy

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Comments

  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,376
    Taz said:

    Whereas Ben’s response was full of needless digs and jibes at a quite reasonable post. You chose not to challenge that.
    What a twit. I was enjoying your conversation with him. You don't even know who I support, if anyone. Do you usually go around trying to start unnecessary arguments. I wasn't commenting on your discussion. I was commenting on the fact that being a grammar nazi weakens your argument, that might be sound, and is childish and patronising.

    As far as I am concerned the only justification is if you can get a good joke out of it.

    I would try being more conciliatory rather than try starting an argument with someone who you don't even know whether they agree or disagree with you.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,027
    Roger said:

    I originally wrote 'orthodox Jewish' but thought it might need a little too much explanation and possibly be misinterpreted as something pejorative so I changed it to Mormon which most will know from 'Witness'.

    But thanks for the interesting post.
    Why would people know the Mormons from “Witness”? The people in Witness are Amish.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,981
    Trump's Ukraine war negotiator can't even name the contested regions.

  • PJHPJH Posts: 775
    edited March 22
    Nigelb said:

    It started under her - the selling of state assets to fund current spending; the increasing central control of local government; the abandonment of any coherent industrial policy; the obsession with housing as an investment, at the expense of actual construction; the privatisation of public service monopolies.

    As you fairly say, she turned around the economy - but at the same time embedded deep seated problems which successive governments failed to address.

    Today's problems simply aren't amenable to being solved by the policy mix she adopted.
    I agree with all the flaws outlined in your post but question whether Thatcher really turned around the economy.

    I'm too young to remember her first couple of years in any detail, but all I remember is a string of recessions, the last of which coincided with my entry to the labour market
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,981

    Where is Black Country whereof he writes. I realise he was born in Wolverhampton but according to Wikipedia he spent much of his youth in Ludlow and district.
    Here is my biography, I have others if you don't like it.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,860

    Jenrick resigned from the Cabinet in protest at the weakness of the key immigration policy, so I think he has established a modicum of credibility on this issue.
    Or maybe he just thinks his fans are stupid.
  • I'm about to go to a free exhibition on Japanese carpentry. Having fun without spending!
    I'm an avid consumer of carpentry videos on YouTube, so I approve this message.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,376
    edited March 22

    I like being corrected on PB. It's part of the value of the site.
    @Nigelb didn't say we would correct you. He said he hoped you feel the same when we take the piss in response. That is completely different.

    I hope you didn't mind me correcting you unnecessarily.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,740
    Foxy said:

    I wouldn't read so much into it. Fashions change over time, and the shift from bleached blonde MAGA anchor-women in short dresses to these outfits may not be of a lot of significance, just as the miniskirt and hotpants era gave way to maxi dresses, and Laura Ashley shepherdess style. Cottagecore is quite a meme in the USA.

    Interestingly it is popular both with the Trad-wife phenomenon, but also Millenial and Gen Z lesbians.

    https://www.autostraddle.com/what-is-cottagecore-and-why-do-young-queer-people-love-it/
    “Who decides that the workday is from 9 to 5, instead of 11 to 4? Who decides that the hemlines will be below the knee this year and short again next year? Who draws up the borders, controls the currency, handles all of the decisions that happen transparently around us?"

    "I don't know."

    "Ah! I'm with them. Same group, different department. Think of me as a sort of middleman…. Come in, sit, sit. The tea is getting cold."
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,860

    Where is Black Country whereof he writes. I realise he was born in Wolverhampton but according to Wikipedia he spent much of his youth in Ludlow and district.
    Please try to keep up. He removed Shropshire from his biography last Summer:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20240525072827/https://www.robertjenrick.com/about
    https://web.archive.org/web/20240815130405/https://www.robertjenrick.com/about
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,355
    F1: not sure I'll be putting up the pre-race tosh in the near future, depends if the markets awaken before I go on the exercise bike.

    I will say I'm considering a slightly left field title bet...
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 622
    carnforth said:

    By being entitled to buy cars VAT free. 20% of all new cars now don't have VAT collected on them. In addition, when motability sells the car on to a dealer after 3 years, VAT is only charged on the profit the dealer makes, as normal.

    This, of course, is how motability leases are cheap: it's not so much bulk buying power as getting a 20% head start on depreciation power.
    Also you can't just rock up and buy a 3 year old motability car. The aftermarket for them is strictly by invitation.
  • “Who decides that the workday is from 9 to 5, instead of 11 to 4? Who decides that the hemlines will be below the knee this year and short again next year? Who draws up the borders, controls the currency, handles all of the decisions that happen transparently around us?"

    "I don't know."

    "Ah! I'm with them. Same group, different department. Think of me as a sort of middleman…. Come in, sit, sit. The tea is getting cold."
    Love guys who talk in cryptic anagrams all the time. Normally hides a lack of anything interesting to say.
  • Trump's Ukraine war negotiator can't even name the contested regions.

    Perfect man for the job then. Might hand Putin half of ukraine by mistake.
  • Love these guys.

    Trump’s special envoy, Steve Witkoff, said Putin told him that after the assassination attempt on Trump, he visited his local church, met with a priest, and prayed for him: “not because he could become the president of the US, but because he had a friendship with him and he was praying for his friend.”

    Witkoff also stated that he doesn’t consider the Russian war criminal “a bad guy,” describing the war as a “complicated situation.”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1903238535458721962
  • Scott_xP said:

    "George W. Bush's America would invade Trump's America to install democracy..."

    Indeed. But Trumps got the biggest red button.
  • I actually think the reaction to Trump now will come from the hard left. Think corbynite policies of massive wealth redistribution. Sanders looking to run in 2028.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,701

    Trump's Ukraine war negotiator can't even name the contested regions.

    It should be a crimea, and everywhere else!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,008
    Foxy said:

    It should be a crimea, and everywhere else!
    Will Pacific Heights make a Korea of it?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,081

    I actually think the reaction to Trump now will come from the hard left. Think corbynite policies of massive wealth redistribution. Sanders looking to run in 2028.

    The hard left will never win a presidential election in the USA. What's needed is a non-woke centre-left Democratic party.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,740
    Battlebus said:

    Also you can't just rock up and buy a 3 year old motability car. The aftermarket for them is strictly by invitation.
    I rather suspect that a number of these car deals are not by/with/or/from/to/for/at/or/near people with mobility issues.

    Why? Well, if you look at the extensive history of tax frauds, such a structure is exactly what the fraudsters head towards.

    All you need is some fake identities.

    If we can’t even stop the money laundering in public, using barbers and sweet shops…
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,008

    Indeed. But Trumps got the biggest red button.
    I thought it was actually very small and sort of greyish? 'Like a button mushroom,' ISTR.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,081
    edited March 22
    Foxy said:

    I think the current economic environment is particularly tough on such dated middle market chains. Hard Rock is dying out for the same reason places like Berni Inns did.

    High end foodie places and fast food places seem to be prospering, as well as independent restaurants with more niche menus.
    This is already the situation in the United States and it's terrible imo. You either have to eat in a fast food restaurant or somewhere that costs a lot of money. There's nothing in between. I hope that doesn't happen over here. Thank goodness for the likes of Wetherspoons and Toby Carvery.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,095
    edited March 22
    carnforth said:

    By being entitled to buy cars VAT free. 20% of all new cars now don't have VAT collected on them. In addition, when motability sells the car on to a dealer after 3 years, VAT is only charged on the profit the dealer makes, as normal.

    This, of course, is how motability leases are cheap: it's not so much bulk buying power as getting a 20% head start on depreciation power.
    Checking, there's a bit more to it than that:
    https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-relief-for-disabled-people/vrdp28000

    However, it remains that if there is an issue of eligibility - then the fix is to review the eligibility for the Higher Rate PIP if there are people receiving it who should do so, not the Motability scheme.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,925
    edited March 22
    Andy_JS said:

    The hard left will never win a presidential election in the USA. What's needed is a non-woke centre-left Democratic party.
    Worked fine for the hard right. I suspect that there is a lot of crossover between some parts of both camps - Sanders goes down well with the Rogan crowd, for example. All about suspicion of the establishment, whether the government or corporates.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,740

    Love guys who talk in cryptic anagrams all the time. Normally hides a lack of anything interesting to say.
    A plane crashes on the Ukraine/Republic of China border. Which side do you bury the survivors?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,873

    Here is my biography, I have others if you don't like it.
    My real name is Rachel and I approve this message.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,701
    DavidL said:

    My real name is Rachel and I approve this message.
    Do you now self identify as an economist?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,828
    edited March 22

    Where is Black Country whereof he writes. I realise he was born in Wolverhampton but according to Wikipedia he spent much of his youth in Ludlow and district.
    "In the Black Country, the places I saw had names, but the names were merely so much alliteration: Wolverhampton, Wednesbury, Wednesfield, Willenhall and Walsall. You could call them all wilderness, and have done with it". (J.B. Priestley, English Journey).

    And A.E. Houseman wrote a Shropshire Lad from Bromsgrove!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,008

    "In the Black Country, the places I saw had names, but the names were merely so much alliteration: Wolverhampton, Wednesbury, Wednesfield, Willenhall and Walsall. You could call them all wilderness, and have done with it". (J.B. Priestley, English Journey).
    TBF, he wasn't wrong about Walsall.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,078
    ydoethur said:

    TBF, he wasn't wrong about Walsall.
    I used to work in Cradley Heath. Hmmmm.

    Interesting place.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,828
    ydoethur said:

    TBF, he wasn't wrong about Walsall.
    Nor any of the others.

    Did you have The National Arboretum in mind?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,701
    ydoethur said:

    TBF, he wasn't wrong about Walsall.
    I used to work there. I had to keep explaing to people that I hadn't taken a job in Poland.

    Do they still do the Walsall illuminations?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,828
    edited March 22
    Taz said:

    I used to work in Cradley Heath. Hmmmm.

    Interesting place.
    Cradley Heath is in Sandwell, Cradley is in Dudley. When I lived in Cradley (Herefordshire), confused Brummie visitors would ask if they had arrived in Cra(y)dley, so I would tell them no, it is near Dudley.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,008
    Foxy said:

    I used to work there. I had to keep explaing to people that I hadn't taken a job in Poland.

    Do they still do the Walsall illuminations?
    Sometimes, for light relief.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,828
    Foxy said:

    I used to work there. I had to keep explaing to people that I hadn't taken a job in Poland.

    Do they still do the Walsall illuminations?
    Surveying the Walsall Ghettos ...from the Pleck?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,008

    Nor any of the others.

    Did you have The National Arboretum in mind?
    Wolverhampton has grotty bits but on the whole it's a decent place. Willenhall I try to avoid.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,008
    24 posts before the ban hammer swings (well, locks it to 'applicant').

    Not too impressive. We need to make more jokes about the small size of Putin's cock and the number of small boys he sticks it in. We're clearly not annoying him enough at the moment.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,740
    On the Heathrow backup - the line, at least according to the government seems to be that they didn’t have a backup, as such.

    A backup would supply power without interruption.

    What they had was a plan to restore power, that was expected to take time and then would require resetting and restoring individual systems.

    Someone was suggesting that financial pressure prevented real backups. In every bank I have worked at, they have layers of plans, including dealing with the complete destruction of main office - disaster recovery sites are standard. Quite interesting to wander around them and see the trading floors covered in dust sheets, waiting for The Day.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,923
    edited March 22
    Labour must really be regretting foolishly boxing themselves in so thoroughly with their safety-first election campaign.

    To have dined out on opposing ‘austerity’ for fourteen long years, only to be imposing ‘austerity: the sequel’ within a year of taking office, is something their activists and representatives will hate, and will take a long time to live down.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,740
    edited March 22
    ydoethur said:

    24 posts before the ban hammer swings (well, locks it to 'applicant').

    Not too impressive. We need to make more jokes about the small size of Putin's cock and the number of small boys he sticks it in. We're clearly not annoying him enough at the moment.

    Some of us are using our copies of “Fly fishing” by JR Hartley.

    You appear to want to go for marlin fishing. Great big hook and haul the fish in with a turn round a power winch.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,078

    Cradley Heath is in Sandwell, Cradley is in Dudley. When I lived in Cradley (Herefordshire), confused Brummie visitors would ask if they had arrived in Cra(y)dley, so I would tell them no, it is near Dudley.
    The factory has houses on it now. Not too far from the Merry Hill Centre. Awful job, awful company. Joined a Facebook group of old employees recently for some nostalgia and found out someone I shared an office with in the early nineties died in 2018 of an aggressive cancer. Only 40. I was somewhat upset.

    When I worked in Cannock the locals used to refer to the brummie contingent as 021’s.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,078
    ydoethur said:

    Wolverhampton has grotty bits but on the whole it's a decent place. Willenhall I try to avoid.
    The walk to Molineaux from the train station used to be less than fun.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,355
    Chris said:

    Please try to keep up. He removed Shropshire from his biography last Summer:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20240525072827/https://www.robertjenrick.com/about
    https://web.archive.org/web/20240815130405/https://www.robertjenrick.com/about
    Apologies. I do like the idea of his parents fitting fireplaces around the kitchen table! Slightly bizarre.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,740
    Some figures on Heathrow backups

    Batteries in an ISO container - about £900,000 for 3MWh. So 10 of those would run Heathrow for an hour. £9,000,000

    Diesel generators behind those - 2MW in an ISO. £400,000 each, say. 15 required to backup Heathrow. £6,000,000

    So £15,000,000 in hardware.

    How much did yesterday cost?



  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,081

    Racism dressed up with fancy words.
    Nothing racist about it in my opinion.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,409

    Some figures on Heathrow backups

    Batteries in an ISO container - about £900,000 for 3MWh. So 10 of those would run Heathrow for an hour. £9,000,000

    Diesel generators behind those - 2MW in an ISO. £400,000 each, say. 15 required to backup Heathrow. £6,000,000

    So £15,000,000 in hardware.

    How much did yesterday cost?



    I have to agree, how
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,081

    Some figures on Heathrow backups

    Batteries in an ISO container - about £900,000 for 3MWh. So 10 of those would run Heathrow for an hour. £9,000,000

    Diesel generators behind those - 2MW in an ISO. £400,000 each, say. 15 required to backup Heathrow. £6,000,000

    So £15,000,000 in hardware.

    How much did yesterday cost?



    The interesting thing is you don't have to be an expert to know that Heathrow relying on one substation wasn't a good idea.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,740
    Andy_JS said:

    The interesting thing is you don't have to be an expert to know that Heathrow relying on one substation wasn't a good idea.
    Indeed. I’ve architected IT infrastructure. On the basis of - “if the data centre x ceases to exist, no-one will notice”.

    It’s never been easier or cheaper to build resiliency into IT or power.
  • FffsFffs Posts: 90

    Some figures on Heathrow backups

    Batteries in an ISO container - about £900,000 for 3MWh. So 10 of those would run Heathrow for an hour. £9,000,000

    Diesel generators behind those - 2MW in an ISO. £400,000 each, say. 15 required to backup Heathrow. £6,000,000

    So £15,000,000 in hardware.

    How much did yesterday cost?



    You are ignoring installation costs, integration costs, ongoing maintenance and testing costs etc etc. Probably still worth doing, but I'd be surprised if the hardware cost is the dominant term.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,189

    Notice Putin is looking pretty chipper these days. Things seem to be breaking well for him.
    Well, his hydrocarbons indistry seems to be breaking well...thanks to those Ukrainian drones.

    What air defence doing?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,226
    Taz said:

    Jonathan Pie, Who you may know from Russia Today, made the same point after the Trumpdozer won in 2016.
    Jonathan Pie is a fictional character, like Pacificheights who does seem like a toddler smearing their own shit everywhere.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,870
    edited March 22
    Andy_JS said:

    The interesting thing is you don't have to be an expert to know that Heathrow relying on one substation wasn't a good idea.
    Did they assume the power network has immediately available backups, just for them?

    On a much smaller scale, I remember visiting a utility call centre when the usual report of "I've just dug through a cable" came in.

    Before you can say "doh!", the phones start going ape.

    One caller appeared to be running a manufacturing outfit. "I'm losing thousands here" he says. After an attempt to calm him down the call was eventually terminated and everyone looks around, shrugs, and suggests that if a power supply is critical to the business, you should have your _own_ backup strategy.

    That goes for hospitals, data centres, and, yes, airports.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,740
    Fffs said:

    You are ignoring installation costs, integration costs, ongoing maintenance and testing costs etc etc. Probably still worth doing, but I'd be surprised if the hardware cost is the dominant term.
    The point is the order of magnitude. The other costs are a function of the capital costs.

    There are companies, around the world, selling such solutions as a standard thing.

    For example, that Turkish mega hospital mentioned yesterday, has this scale of backup.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,740

    Well, his hydrocarbons indistry seems to be breaking well...thanks to those Ukrainian drones.

    What air defence doing?
    Seems to be breaking well, as well.

    Or are they just on a really long tea break?

    We are a long way from the days of the USSR and the radar coverage maps that blanketed the place from end to end.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,078
    kjh said:

    What a twit. I was enjoying your conversation with him. You don't even know who I support, if anyone. Do you usually go around trying to start unnecessary arguments.
    I’ve told you once…..
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,078
    kamski said:

    Jonathan Pie is a fictional character
    A truly Damascene revelation.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,078
    Andy_JS said:

    Nothing racist about it in my opinion.
    He’s right when he says there’s no democratic mandate for it too.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,081
    And either Heathrow didn't have any experts considering whether or not it was a good idea to rely on one substation, or they did have experts who considered it and decided it was okay. But if they'd asked a random person in the street they would have said it wasn't a good idea.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,923
    A truly shocking story of an American pet owner who turned up at a Florida airport without the correct travel documentation for her dog, on a flight to Colombia, so she went to the airport toilets, strangled her dog, dumped it in the trash can, and flew on without it.

    Thankfully there was enough ID left on the dog, when it was found, to bring her to justice.
  • Is Starmer in the same league as Thatcher?

    No.

    He has the opportunity to. He could be a great PM if he were to face down the vested interests holding back this country, in the same way as Thatcher faced down the NUM.

    He could tear up planning restrictions, face down the totally BANANA NIMBY brigade, and set this country back on the path of sustainable growth.

    He could also rip up the triple lock and rebalance the economy away from pandering to the featherbedded Boomer vote who have had it all their own way for decades.

    And in doing so, he would not be alienating his voters since pensioners and NIMBYs are not the people who voted Labour last year.

    But he won't. He's too afraid to actually stand up to anyone.

    So he won't transform the country for a better and doesn't deserve another vote. He's got a chance, and he's blowing it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,740
    IanB2 said:

    A truly shocking story of an American pet owner who turned up at a Florida airport without the correct travel documentation for her dog, on a flight to Colombia, so she went to the airport toilets, strangled her dog, dumped it in the trash can, and flew on without it.

    Thankfully there was enough ID left on the dog, when it was found, to bring her to justice.

    Not especially a pet person.

    But there is a great deal of evidence that people who behave like this with pets, are often a danger to people as well.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,355
    IanB2 said:

    A truly shocking story of an American pet owner who turned up at a Florida airport without the correct travel documentation for her dog, on a flight to Colombia, so she went to the airport toilets, strangled her dog, dumped it in the trash can, and flew on without it.

    Thankfully there was enough ID left on the dog, when it was found, to bring her to justice.

    What a nasty person!
  • MJWMJW Posts: 2,005
    kamski said:

    Jonathan Pie is a fictional character, like Pacificheights who does seem like a toddler smearing their own shit everywhere.
    Jonathan Pie is also rubbish.

    The left certainly didn't "create" Trump. He's been a grifter mooting political ambitions and spitting bile since at least the 1980s entirely off his own back. He was created by Roy Cohn.

    One might also suggest that if the response to DEI or EDI and stuff like #MeToo overreaching, is to empower some of the foulest people on the planet, among them proven abusers and crooks, to dismantle the American state. Then the problem may not be primarily with the left.

    An irony is that Donald Trump may well have saved "woke" as there had been a pretty significant liberal left backlash against it. Now radicals will claim vindication as moderation and instiutions have provided quite a flimsy defence against the far right. The argument will be that next time the left has to bring a gun to the knife fight and damn compromise as the right have done.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,899
    IanB2 said:

    Labour must really be regretting foolishly boxing themselves in so thoroughly with their safety-first election campaign.

    To have dined out on opposing ‘austerity’ for fourteen long years, only to be imposing ‘austerity: the sequel’ within a year of taking office, is something their activists and representatives will hate, and will take a long time to live down.

    Do you think a party not promising to not raise Income Tax could get elected to power?
  • Do you think a party not promising to not raise Income Tax could get elected to power?
    There is no need to raise income tax, just take the brakes off the economy with serious supply-side reform.

    Too many people currently have a vested interest in preventing growth and they are permitted to do so by both our planning and judicial review systems. Reform both, take away the ability of people to prevent other people from creating economic growth . . . and the Exchequer will automatically get a big slice of any economic growth that creates via our existing tax rates.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,828
    Taz said:

    The walk to Molineaux from the train station used to be less than fun.
    The walk from the stands to the touchline at Molineaux is quite a distance too. I haven't been for years, but it used to be an odd shaped ground.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,364
    edited March 22

    They were offering further tax cuts (on top of the two NI cuts) with no loss of public service which I think we would all take now.
    I would take it over what has transpired, certainly, but we wouldn't have got a good Government out of it. Labour coming in is clearly how it was meant to be.
  • Foxy said:

    Indeed, I think that there is a case that most of our current economic problems can be traced back to her policies:

    An over centralised state, with little autonomy for councils
    An economy that prioritises financial engineering over real engineering
    Neglect of old coalfield areas.
    Fixation on property as an asset and investment
    Conversion of local authority residential property to private Buy to Let.
    A chronic trade deficit that can only be financed by selling off assets like utilities to foreign interests.

    I am sure others can add more.


    Buy to Let is a New Labour legacy not a Thatcher one.

    image
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,573
    YouTube channel new brand / strategy finalised. Much happier with the coming direction change...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,364

    Buy to Let is a New Labour legacy not a Thatcher one.

    image
    The UK also had a positive balance of trade from 94 to 98, so that went under New Labour too.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,828

    Is Starmer in the same league as Thatcher?

    No.

    He has the opportunity to. He could be a great PM if he were to face down the vested interests holding back this country, in the same way as Thatcher faced down the NUM.

    He could tear up planning restrictions, face down the totally BANANA NIMBY brigade, and set this country back on the path of sustainable growth.

    He could also rip up the triple lock and rebalance the economy away from pandering to the featherbedded Boomer vote who have had it all their own way for decades.

    And in doing so, he would not be alienating his voters since pensioners and NIMBYs are not the people who voted Labour last year.

    But he won't. He's too afraid to actually stand up to anyone.

    So he won't transform the country for a better and doesn't deserve another vote. He's got a chance, and he's blowing it.

    Thatcher was only in the same league as Thatcher after the Falklands. There is no doubt Thatcher made her mark, but from my side of the fence her legacy is problematic.
  • Thatcher was only in the same league as Thatcher after the Falklands. There is no doubt Thatcher made her mark, but from my side of the fence her legacy is problematic.
    Thatcher was making reforms even before the Falklands. The Falklands helped her cement her legacy, but she was already reforming well before then.

    What is Starmer doing that years from now people can point to and say "that was a difficult decision, but the right thing to do, and we're better for it now"?

    He has a landslide majority. He could face down any vested interest and command Parliament, but he's too afraid to do so - even when those vested interests lost the election and voted for his opponents anyway.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,224
    edited March 22
    As good a takedown of Trump as I've heard from a paid politician. 'Any Questions' and the question she was answering is 'What do you think of Trumps chances of winning the Nobel Peace Prize?' From Northern Ireland so probably not job threatening!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,828

    Thatcher was making reforms even before the Falklands. The Falklands helped her cement her legacy, but she was already reforming well before then.

    What is Starmer doing that years from now people can point to and say "that was a difficult decision, but the right thing to do, and we're better for it now"?

    He has a landslide majority. He could face down any vested interest and command Parliament, but he's too afraid to do so - even when those vested interests lost the election and voted for his opponents anyway.
    I am not doubting Starmer's timidity. I am critical of Thatcher's privatisation of utilities prospectus. Some went better than others. But her selling of UK assets to foreign buyers is wholly problematic. Right to buy has unravelled 45 years on too. Her performance wasn't the 11/10 most on here would award her.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,828

    Buy to Let is a New Labour legacy not a Thatcher one.

    image
    I blame Dion Dublin and Homes Under the Hammer.
  • I am not doubting Starmer's timidity. I am critical of Thatcher's privatisation of utilities prospectus. Some went better than others. But her selling of UK assets to foreign buyers is wholly problematic. Right to buy has unravelled 45 years on too. Her performance wasn't the 11/10 most on here would award her.
    From my PoV privatisation worked, across the board, but even if you disagree it was a serious reform that its proponents can point to and say "this was done - and it worked". That's what Starmer needs, and lacks. Even if its a serious reform that those on my side of the political spectrum might blanch at.

    Right to Buy has not unravelled, what is problematic in the Housing Market began in the 00's onwards and is not a legacy of RTB. If we had enough construction to keep track with housing needs there would be no shortage of housing and people could afford their own home at a low cost as they could in the 80s and 90s before BTL kicked off and people with a vested interest and many properties could decide to lock others out of the market with telephone number house prices.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,828

    From my PoV privatisation worked, across the board, but even if you disagree it was a serious reform that its proponents can point to and say "this was done - and it worked". That's what Starmer needs, and lacks. Even if its a serious reform that those on my side of the political spectrum might blanch at.

    Right to Buy has not unravelled, what is problematic in the Housing Market began in the 00's onwards and is not a legacy of RTB. If we had enough construction to keep track with housing needs there would be no shortage of housing and people could afford their own home at a low cost as they could in the 80s and 90s before BTL kicked off and people with a vested interest and many properties could decide to lock others out of the market with telephone number house prices.
    We haven't got enough public sector housing, that was entirely Thatcher's doing, squirreling away RTB receipts rather that reinvesting. A considerable amount of post war public sector housing stock is now rented out by Rachmaneque landlords.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,355

    I am not doubting Starmer's timidity. I am critical of Thatcher's privatisation of utilities prospectus. Some went better than others. But her selling of UK assets to foreign buyers is wholly problematic. Right to buy has unravelled 45 years on too. Her performance wasn't the 11/10 most on here would award her.
    One of the first things the Tories did after winning the 1979 election was to almost double the standard rate of VAT from 8% to 15%.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,828

    YouTube channel new brand / strategy finalised. Much happier with the coming direction change...

    Justbuyaleapmotor ?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,573

    Justbuyaleapmotor ?
    Can you imagine that lol
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,828

    One of the first things the Tories did after winning the 1979 election was to almost double the standard rate of VAT from 8% to 15%.
    They like VAT, the Tories. Old school regressive taxation.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,355
    Betting Post

    F1: gone for Hadjar to win group 2 at 3.3.
    https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/03/chinese-grand-prix-2025-pre-race.html

    Others are Tsunoda, Albon, Alonso, and Ocon. On pace, Hadjar has the car to do it and if he retains his place or even gets passed by Antonelli he should not only retain the advantage over the others but have clear air which could be crucial.

    I was also tempted by Russell at 12 for the win, hedged at 4. Also, Russell at 26 each way for the title (down to third the odds top 2, alas). He's currently third, just half a dozen points off Norris. While the Mercedes isn't as fast as the McLaren it seems less of a hassle to drive and doesn't chew tyres as much as the Red Bull.
  • We haven't got enough public sector housing, that was entirely Thatcher's doing, squirreling away RTB receipts rather that reinvesting. A considerable amount of post war public sector housing stock is now rented out by Rachmaneque landlords.
    You don't need as much public housing if people own their own homes, but unfortunately that fell off long after Thatcher had moved on, due to problems instigated after her (and one problem passed in 1948).

    Landlords buying up properties kicked off in the late 90s/00s onwards, as I showed in my chart, not the 1980s/early 90s.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,516

    Trump's Ukraine war negotiator can't even name the contested regions.

    Because he doesn’t believe there are any… they are all part of Russia…
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,355

    They like VAT, the Tories. Old school regressive taxation.
    I must say that in my retail pharmacy days I liked VAT. Apart from anything else it required one's books to be kept up to date.
    And Purchase Tax, which preceded it and which could be changed overnight was paid by a retailers supplier, which meant that when it went down retailers had to reduce their prices, when they'd already paid the tax.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,793
    US Federal tax receipts tracking towards a 10% ($500 billion) shortfall in 24-25 compared with the previous tax year, thanks in large part to Musk's Department of Government "Efficiency" hatchet job on the IRS. They just aren't collecting the taxes.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/03/22/irs-tax-revenue-loss-federal-budget/
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,828
    edited March 22

    You don't need as much public housing if people own their own homes, but unfortunately that fell off long after Thatcher had moved on, due to problems instigated after her (and one problem passed in 1948).

    Landlords buying up properties kicked off in the late 90s/00s onwards, as I showed in my chart, not the 1980s/early 90s.
    The British Nationality Act? Oh you mean the Planning Act.

    It kicked off in the 90s when old codgers who had bought early doors were selling onto private landlords and moving to Spain.

    But that's the problem Bart. People, particularly young people, can't afford their own homes. They have to rent black mould decorated hovels from private landlords at exorbitant fees. We need proper good quality council housing. Can we afford it? Probably not.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,828

    I must say that in my retail pharmacy days I liked VAT. Apart from anything else it required one's books to be kept up to date.
    And Purchase Tax, which preceded it and which could be changed overnight was paid by a retailers supplier, which meant that when it went down retailers had to reduce their prices, when they'd already paid the tax.
    Any purchase tax is regressive. I quite like VAT, just not a double digit rate.
  • The British Nationality Act? Oh you mean the Planning Act.

    But that's the problem Bart. People, particularly young people, can't afford their own homes. They have to rent black mould decorated hovels from private landlords at exorbitant fees. We need proper good quality council housing. Can we afford it? Probably not.
    People can't afford their homes due to planning restrictions (which could be lifted) and the explosion of BTL and house prices from Brown's days in the Treasury onwards.

    Neither of which are a legacy of Thatcher. In the 80s and early 90s house prices were affordable and BTL mortgages didn't even exist.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,355

    People can't afford their homes due to planning restrictions (which could be lifted) and the explosion of BTL and house prices from Brown's days in the Treasury onwards.

    Neither of which are a legacy of Thatcher. In the 80s and early 90s house prices were affordable and BTL mortgages didn't even exist.
    BTL wouldn't be needed if there was an adequate supply of Local Authority homes available to rent.
    I'd agree, of course, that in some (?many) areas the demand for council houses exceeded the supply.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,740

    The British Nationality Act? Oh you mean the Planning Act.

    But that's the problem Bart. People, particularly young people, can't afford their own homes. They have to rent black mould decorated hovels from private landlords at exorbitant fees. We need proper good quality council housing. Can we afford it? Probably not.
    The problem is really supply.

    If you want to increase the population by a million, you need an extra million bedrooms.

    Otherwise you have “efficiencies” such as illegal HMOs.

    From the Guardian -


  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,828
    edited March 22

    People can't afford their homes due to planning restrictions (which could be lifted) and the explosion of BTL and house prices from Brown's days in the Treasury onwards.

    Neither of which are a legacy of Thatcher. In the 80s and early 90s house prices were affordable and BTL mortgages didn't even exist.
    Can you not see the correlation through the mists of time? The one (RTB) led to the other (BTL). Thatcher created a million Peter Rachmans.

    https://neweconomics.org/2024/05/more-than-4-in-10-council-homes-sold-under-right-to-buy-now-owned-by-private-landlords#:~:text=Press Releases-,More than 4 in 10 council homes sold under right,now owned by private landlords&text=41% of all council homes,for Us alliance, published today.
  • Can you not see the correlation through the mists of time? The one (RTB) led to the other (BTL).

    https://neweconomics.org/2024/05/more-than-4-in-10-council-homes-sold-under-right-to-buy-now-owned-by-private-landlords#:~:text=Press Releases-,More than 4 in 10 council homes sold under right,now owned by private landlords&text=41% of all council homes,for Us alliance, published today.
    No.

    Terrible economic policies like excluding house prices from inflation so the Bank of England suppressed CPI but allowed housing costs to spiral out of control led to RTB exploding.

    Especially combined with planning restrictions and an explosion in population.

    If planning restrictions didn't exist and house prices were low then BTL wouldn't exist since there's no point in buying property if you need to pay its costs but have no tenant to pay your mortgage as a tenant can sooner pay their own mortgage instead.

    Tenants paying a landlord's mortgage instead of their own is a market failure. A market failure that did not exist until the turn of the century.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,081
    "'Migrant hub' plan will send alarm bells clanging for many Labour MPs - as Tories smell blood

    The government is said to be considering sending failed asylum seekers, including those arriving on small boats, to overseas 'migrant hubs'. Although very different from the Rwanda plan, the echoes will alienate the party's more liberal supporters.

    Amanda Akass"

    https://news.sky.com/story/migrant-hub-plan-will-send-alarm-bells-clanging-for-many-labour-mps-as-tories-smell-blood-13333761
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,828

    No.

    Terrible economic policies like excluding house prices from inflation so the Bank of England suppressed CPI but allowed housing costs to spiral out of control led to RTB exploding.

    Especially combined with planning restrictions and an explosion in population.

    If planning restrictions didn't exist and house prices were low then BTL wouldn't exist since there's no point in buying property if you need to pay its costs but have no tenant to pay your mortgage as a tenant can sooner pay their own mortgage instead.

    Tenants paying a landlord's mortgage instead of their own is a market failure. A market failure that did not exist until the turn of the century.
    NIMFBY! I am quite happy sitting on an almost million pound property.

    Follow the f*****' trail. Self funding public sector housing was fine. RTB was a bribe for the 1979 election. Then came BTL. You are probably right about planning (but not the field behind my house, please).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,960
    Andy_JS said:

    "'Migrant hub' plan will send alarm bells clanging for many Labour MPs - as Tories smell blood

    The government is said to be considering sending failed asylum seekers, including those arriving on small boats, to overseas 'migrant hubs'. Although very different from the Rwanda plan, the echoes will alienate the party's more liberal supporters.

    Amanda Akass"

    https://news.sky.com/story/migrant-hub-plan-will-send-alarm-bells-clanging-for-many-labour-mps-as-tories-smell-blood-13333761

    Offshore processing centers have always been a better idea than sending people to Rwanda to claim asylum there.

    Most importantly, they mean the risk of people just disappearing into the informal labour market completely disappears.
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