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Reeves, nearly as bad as Covid and Truss & Kwarteng but Lab still continue to lead on the economy

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Comments

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,302
    edited March 22

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting interview by the Kyiv Post with General Ben Hodges on the prospects for the US Armed Forces under Trump.

    (One statement DOGE made was that they expected 8% cuts per annum.)

    Hodges suggests that the US Army will be reduced by 20-25% from its current 490k manpower, and that most of the forces in Europe will be pulled out in fairly short order.

    He notes that 40k of the 100k forces staff in Europe are funded out of special funds rather than core budgets.

    https://youtu.be/usfrJg3CY-Y?t=966

    A feature of Trump is that he despises the armed forces as “suckers and losers.”

    Unless they face an external danger, dictators generally prefer a weak military, for it’s there where effective opposition exists.

    The unusual thing avbout the US are the vast numbers of weapons held outside the military. The Commorative (formerly Confedarate) Air Force has over 350 flying planes. And if an armed group ever took over the Arizona boneywards....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYsOFXnfsCU
    If MAGA are serious about creating a dictatorship, it’s those groups they’d be looking to use, to suppress dissent.

    The equivalent of the SA and SS.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,924
    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting interview by the Kyiv Post with General Ben Hodges on the prospects for the US Armed Forces under Trump.

    (One statement DOGE made was that they expected 8% cuts per annum.)

    Hodges suggests that the US Army will be reduced by 20-25% from its current 490k manpower, and that most of the forces in Europe will be pulled out in fairly short order.

    He notes that 40k of the 100k forces staff in Europe are funded out of special funds rather than core budgets.

    https://youtu.be/usfrJg3CY-Y?t=966

    A feature of Trump is that he despises the armed forces as “suckers and losers.”

    Unless they face an external danger, dictators generally prefer a weak military, for it’s there where effective opposition exists.

    As usual we can simply ask what Putin would want and low and behold, there is Trump's people actually getting on and doing it. In this case, gutting the US army.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,343

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    We all know the economy and the public finances are in a mess and we also know this didn't start on July 5th last year. Whether or not you think Reeves has made things worse or much worse is up to you but she had a dreadful inheritance and you can argue that how you like.

    The central question remains as it has since the post-Covid inflationary boom - how do we get economic growth back? Yes, you can argue we lived off the ponzi scheme that was immigration-led growth for decades - in truth, we always have whether it's cheap labour from the fields, the Carribbean or Eastern Europe. Generating growth with a stagnant work force, an ageing population and all the demands of that ageing population is the conundrum which affects policy makers across most of the world.

    We have the inevitable "supply side" response - cut regulation (that's how you end up with raw sewage in the rivers because you can't enforce what regulation you do have), spending (apparently the state is bloated) and taxes (the peasants groaning under the burden of taxes yearning to be free).

    The "centre-left" has had no coherent economic policy since 2008 - the "centre right" trots out neo-Thatcherite platitudes which have been tried and failed. It may be technological innovation will be the next spur to economic growth - it's happened many times before.

    Until then, we stagnate with a growing ageing population and a declining work force like the hamster stuck on the wheel with the wheel going ever faster. On the one hand, there is clear under employment in some sectors yet vacancy levels in many other sectors are falling as economic activity alows further.

    I'll be blunt - I have no answers, no one does. All Governments can do is tinker at the edges and hope, pace Micawber, "something will turn up". The economic, social, cultural and political landscape was fundamentally altered by the pandemic, the responses to the pandemic and the post-pandemic euphoria and we are still adjusting to the new reality of the 2020s.

    I'd take issue with the "ageing population" argument. Yes, the average age is increasing, but that's partly later children but mainly healthier older people. A way forward is surely to increase full retirement age and make retirement more flexible.
    That's an interesting point, Nick, and I don't disagree.

    Gradually moving the age of eligibility for the state pension towards 70 (I don't like calling it retirement) seems a sensible move but has to be done carefully politically. As it is, many in their 40s and 50s are worried they'll never be able to retire. However, the Government could reward saving and encourage more involvement in work place pensions as a bit of carrot but of course if that means people stop working at 60-65 that doesn't help the overall economy much - I'm a good example, retired at 64, living off my workplace pension until I can claim the State pension.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,330
    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    What the reality of the so-called cuts to PIP really means. An increase of 26.67% over the life of this Parliament not an increase of a third.

    The govt have done the right thing trying to put a brake on this. They need to go further. Scrap the triple lock and radically scale back motability.

    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1903144427855487066?s=61

    How does a private motor finance company impact the public finances?

    Serious question. That has the feel of some vindictive people objecting to disabled people being able to use their Personal Independence Payment to make their lives easier.

    Is there a case to support such a move?

    Perhaps we need to start with not locking disabled people out of the best local parks.
    It’s not really a serious question given the framing.

    One in five new cars are motability and they go to people for all sorts of reasons. The scheme is expanding rapidly and needs to be looked at. For example the cars available on it. This is, ultimately, taxpayers money going to fund these cars.
    I don't see the point there. The rapid expansion is likely to be a one-off due to the market.

    What I am hearing there is inchoate outrage about disabled people spending a non-means-tested benefit on something that they find helps them most effectively.

    I see no rational basis for interference. Basically, it's nothing whatsoever to do with the likes of John Rentoul or any politicians - unless an abuse can be shown. BTW I can't find the tweet - is it genuine?

    If there are believed to be problems about who gets the benefit, then that's about who is eligible for the benefit, not about how it is spent. It is specifically intended as a modest contribution to helping disabled people adapt to their needs.

    I have my own issues with Motability, as you know, mainly around equivalent mobility aids being excluded from the scheme.

    But non-disabled commentators trying to control the lives of disabled people without a really strong case is as obscene as it sounds.

    I haven't seen any weigh in from stirrers or politicians, but to me it has the same whiff as for example the outrage Robert Jenrick was trying to generate when he claimed that disability being listed as a factor deserving a pre-sentencing report in a Court Case was an act of discrimination against white men. But Jenrick is a dog whistler, as we know.
    I would suggest that by 'radically scaling back motability' Rentoul means looking at eligibility first and foremost.

    Your response reminds me of the trans-activist response to women who are angry with cross-dressers exposing themselves in women's loos. A blanket refusal to contemplate that there are people abusing the system - if you identify as disabled, you are. You're entitled to your opinion, but it seems odd to me, because these people are calling into question the benefits that those who are genuinely disabled depend upon, just as the perverts indulging their kink have called into question (wrongly in my view) the right of post-op transsexuals to use women's loos. I would be furious with them, not furious with the people wondering why motability has become a part of Britain's economy that can be seen from space.
    You're spouting off on something you know nothing about as usual.

    There's a set of cirtieria, a rigorous assessment, an appeal process. People who apply either qualify or they don't. Most who apply don't qualify for the higher rate mobility component of PIP, which is what you need to join the Motability scheme.

    There are regular reviews, a process for reporting suspected fraud, an established investigation team, fraudulent claimants are made to pay back the money they've received and can be fined or imprisoned.

    Your comment that "if you identify as disabled, you are" is utter bullshit and very offensive.
    Criteria.
    That's your response? Unnecessarily pointing out an obvious typo.
    Yes,

    Any rule against it ?

    It’s something Luckyguy, who I always like to read, does quite a bit so I thought I’d do it. Save him the bother.
    No rule against it, no, but you might have a good argument to put (I was following the discussion) and this just makes it look like you are accepting defeat and going off on a an unrelated point, and a very weak one at that, because someone making as typo does not make their argument invalid at all.

    Yes @Luckyguy1983 does it a lot (so good of you to save him the trouble :smile: ), but it just looks weak as I said, plus we are not school children so it is a bit insulting.

    In addition @Luckyguy1983 has come a cropper at least a couple of times (I think on his favourite, licence) so when you correct someones spelling or grammar you can be setting yourself up to look a fool. I prefer to make myself look a fool by getting something relevant wrong.

    But regardless of all of that, it is just patronising.
    Whereas Ben’s response was full of needless digs and jibes at a quite reasonable post. You chose not to challenge that.
    I tend to correct it when people slip into Americanisms, which is something I find unwelcome. It's a bit like dispatching grey squirrels - a public duty. And yes, there are times when I get it wrong.

    I don't correct every typo or misplaced apostrophe - on the very odd occasion if I feel that someone has made a particularly pompous post full of pathos and thunderous rhetoric, but made a basic spelling or grammatical error, I might point it out for my own puerile amusement. What can I say, I am only flesh and blood.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,924
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    I see that Bernie and AOC are drawing big crowds on their smash the oligarchy tour.

    If there's ever another election in America, I can see AOC getting the Dem nomination. She seems to be getting Bernies endorsement.

    I am on at 45, I notice she is now 22.

    https://bsky.app/profile/aoc.bsky.social/post/3lkwlajfsbs24

    They need to work on their slogans. The American's are good at it.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anti-Oligarchy-Anti-Rich-Eat-the-Oligarch/dp/B0DTK2SSK6

    I'm on AOC at 55.

    Could shorten considerably if she does run in primaries.

    Whether she is the answer to defeat Trump I have no idea. Sadly, I think it probably wont matter who the candidate is because Trump's cult team will not allow a free and fair election.
    AOC is too left wing for US voters.
    It is perfectly possible to have an over reaction to MAGA politics, but I think she will primary very well and who knows.

    Like Corbyn, she engages voters who otherwise are apathetic.

    I am also on Pritzker at 70, as a bit more mainstream, Midwest candidate but also showing a bit of fight.

    All assuming that there are elections in the future of course.
    FWIW, I don't think Trump will actually cancel elections. His cult will make sure they are pretty rigged. Far easier to get away with. But I wouldn't make a bet on it.

    US presidential election and Congressional management is done at the state level not by the federal government
    There are many ways to rig an election, not just the management of how people vote. You can control the media. You can arrest
    political opponents. You can saturate the airwaves with propaganda lies. You can declare a war/national emergency.
    In which case the US will effectively be near civil war anyway and most blue states would secede from the Union
    Sadly, I think it is increasingly clear that that will be the only way to end this madness.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,330
    Stereodog said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    What the reality of the so-called cuts to PIP really means. An increase of 26.67% over the life of this Parliament not an increase of a third.

    The govt have done the right thing trying to put a brake on this. They need to go further. Scrap the triple lock and radically scale back motability.

    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1903144427855487066?s=61

    How does a private motor finance company impact the public finances?

    Serious question. That has the feel of some vindictive people objecting to disabled people being able to use their Personal Independence Payment to make their lives easier.

    Is there a case to support such a move?

    Perhaps we need to start with not locking disabled people out of the best local parks.
    It’s not really a serious question given the framing.

    One in five new cars are motability and they go to people for all sorts of reasons. The scheme is expanding rapidly and needs to be looked at. For example the cars available on it. This is, ultimately, taxpayers money going to fund these cars.
    I don't see the point there. The rapid expansion is likely to be a one-off due to the market.

    What I am hearing there is inchoate outrage about disabled people spending a non-means-tested benefit on something that they find helps them most effectively.

    I see no rational basis for interference. Basically, it's nothing whatsoever to do with the likes of John Rentoul or any politicians - unless an abuse can be shown. BTW I can't find the tweet - is it genuine?

    If there are believed to be problems about who gets the benefit, then that's about who is eligible for the benefit, not about how it is spent. It is specifically intended as a modest contribution to helping disabled people adapt to their needs.

    I have my own issues with Motability, as you know, mainly around equivalent mobility aids being excluded from the scheme.

    But non-disabled commentators trying to control the lives of disabled people without a really strong case is as obscene as it sounds.

    I haven't seen any weigh in from stirrers or politicians, but to me it has the same whiff as for example the outrage Robert Jenrick was trying to generate when he claimed that disability being listed as a factor deserving a pre-sentencing report in a Court Case was an act of discrimination against white men. But Jenrick is a dog whistler, as we know.
    I would suggest that by 'radically scaling back motability' Rentoul means looking at eligibility first and foremost.

    Your response reminds me of the trans-activist response to women who are angry with cross-dressers exposing themselves in women's loos. A blanket refusal to contemplate that there are people abusing the system - if you identify as disabled, you are. You're entitled to your opinion, but it seems odd to me, because these people are calling into question the benefits that those who are genuinely disabled depend upon, just as the perverts indulging their kink have called into question (wrongly in my view) the right of post-op transsexuals to use women's loos. I would be furious with them, not furious with the people wondering why motability has become a part of Britain's economy that can be seen from space.
    You're spouting off on something you know nothing about as usual.

    There's a set of cirtieria, a rigorous assessment, an appeal process. People who apply either qualify or they don't. Most who apply don't qualify for the higher rate mobility component of PIP, which is what you need to join the Motability scheme.

    There are regular reviews, a process for reporting suspected fraud, an established investigation team, fraudulent claimants are made to pay back the money they've received and can be fined or imprisoned.

    Your comment that "if you identify as disabled, you are" is utter bullshit and very offensive.
    We can argue about whether my post is bullshit or not, but what it isn't is offensive. To assign it as offensive is to do exactly what I am observing - to try to stamp on criticism not of disabled people, but of able-bodied people gaming the system. That is (as I said) an odd and confusing stance.
    On a point of order, I would object to the term 'able bodied'. I have a best friend with such severe depression that she can't go out of the house and one with severe learning difficulties. Both of them rely on benefits to live and I really hate the idea swirling around that people who claim disability benefits for mental health reasons are gaming the system for just feeling a bit sad.
    But you're making the same mistake again. Because clearly there are some people who are gaming the system by claiming mental health issues, and they probably don't feel sad at all. It's a bad situation your friend has found herself in, and if her condition is as debilitating as you suggest, then she needs some form of support, but by claiming that nobody is gaming the system, you lump everyone into one, and the whole system falls into disrepute.
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    A depressing but entirely unsurprising poll for the opposition parties and the Tories in particular. Where is the narrative about how we start to get out of this mess, however slowly?

    We are borrowing £100bn a year. Reeves says she will not borrow for current consumption but is finding it increasingly difficult to make the numbers work for that. Expect more tax increases (hopefully not as economically damaging as those in October) and fudging around what is "investment".

    That massive stimulus to demand is not generating growth. It is not generating growth because too much of our consumption is spent on imports. We are bleeding nearly £50bn of demand to imports a year. Obviously we need imports. But we also need to produce as much as we consume.

    So, our priorities should be increasing investment, reducing consumption, increasing production and eliminating both the fiscal and trade deficits. Is this really this hard? Obviously the devil is in the details but what is needed is a narrative that both acknowledges the mess we are in and the long, painful journey we need to undertake to get out of it. Where is the shadow Chancellor?

    Trouble is, we don't want to consume less. Many people at the bottom can't realistically consume meaningfully less, and those at the top think that they deserve to consume more.

    (The finger pointing about why we don't need to get to net zero pretty urgently is another manifestation of roughly the same psychology.)

    So we get these silly fantasies that, as long as we stop this or that bit of spending that doesn't really seem to benefit us, everything will be fine.

    It's bigger than that, and probably has been since the Lawson years.
    Consuming less is precisely the opposite of what we need to country to do. As I’ve pointed out a few times we have historically low levels of private debt and a growing savings rate.

    Businesses aren’t spending money, and not are households. We’ve become a nation of misers, building up our own balance sheets at the expense of growth and investment. So government has ended up having to do our borrowing for us.

    We need to be encouraging everyone to spend spend spend. Eat out to help out. Do that kitchen extension. Refurbish that office. Build the new datacentre, or the solar plant. Buy that IT system.

    There are things government can do to stimulate this. Planning reform is one, but targeted incentives should be part of it too.
    Yes, but it needs to be consumption that stimulates our economy, rather than just sucks in imports or spent on foreign holidays.
    Although, if we could all consume less and not feel the need to have stuff for stuff's sake, we'd all probably be a lot happier.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,210
    Dr. Foxy - Thanks for reminding me. For some time I have been thinking of a plan to best use the talents, such as they are, of AOC and MTG. Soon, I will sending each of them a postcard suggesting that the two stage a mud wrestling event for a charity, for example, the Red Cross.

    And, as a small plus, you all could bet on it.

    Pritzker's record in Illinois is not one that would impress most American voters. The state is bankrupt, and actually losing population
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,207

    And if an armed group ever took over the Arizona boneywards....

    They'd have a mountain of spare parts and very little else. Less than 10% of the AMARG aircraft are maintained at "Type 1000" status that can be restored to flight.That takes months/years depending on the complexity and requires manufacturer support.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,210
    Here are some numbers on Illinois, for those interested: https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-population-drop-departures-among-worst-in-u-s/
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,591

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    Worse than... COVID? C'mon.
    For him, yep. People were still placing staff during covid because there was cash sploshing around - no-one coukd spend it but the expectation was tbat they would be able to soon, and in the meantime people were furloughed. Whereas now the outlook for the hospitality industry is so grim that people are not.
    One of the “easy” fixes for last autumn’s budget would be to cancel the NI lower threshold reduction and instead lift the employer’s NI rate on higher incomes. Would completely reverse the impact on low wage employment, while continuing to close the NI/IT gap.
    Do they want to reverse the impact on low wage employment? I can think of several reasons why, from a government perspective, they wouldn't:

    If we are to cope with less low wage migration demand for low wage employees needs to be dampened
    If the government wants to employ people on low wages in the care sector they need to dampen demand from private sector employers for the same people
    The supermarkets in particular have found an employment model based on part time low wage work partly to avoid paying employer taxes and let those staff top up through benefits. This partially addresses that.

    And yes, we should extend NI on higher incomes.

    Finally as the government are so rubbish at pointing it out, and awareness is neglible, for the vast majority of small business with less than 10 staff, employer NI will actually fall or be zero next tax year due to the big increase in employment allowance.
    It was a theory I had at the time that there was some sort of logic to this move, but I don’t think there was. They just wanted to keep the headline rate rise muted.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775

    Battlebus said:

    UK should ‘ideally’ not have ‘any’ troops in Ukraine, says Kemi Badenoch

    https://www.ft.com/content/fac609fc-f1fc-4e26-ad92-84cf23a234f4

    This intervention fitted in well with Kemi's 'show your workings' theme. She has come out strongly against 'doing things with no plan' and that includes military commitments. The implication being that Iraq wouldn't have been supported by a Kemi-led opposition. She's had a good few days.
    Does the person who has come out strongly against 'doing things with no plan' - have a plan? Or have they stated that there is no need for a plan from her as it's too soon.
    The latter. I was extremely against this, but if she can keep up the recent tempo and tone (giving a strong indication of where things have gone wrong and the required direction of travel, but announcing a policy review) on the various important issues, it will be OK.

    Don't forget that Kemi's Tories will probably be the policy backbone of the next Government, even if they don't get most seats.
    If they are the policy backbone, they will have most seats.

    Reform's problems will commence when people start considering them as the governing party. The cupboard is bare. They may be good at sucking air through teeth and suggesting "I wouldn't do that". What they won't have is any plan to actually demonstrate a coherent alternative way of governing.
    One could say that of Governments of all stripes over the last ten years. Although without doubt Government by a bunch of football hooligans would be uniquely bad.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,330

    Battlebus said:

    UK should ‘ideally’ not have ‘any’ troops in Ukraine, says Kemi Badenoch

    https://www.ft.com/content/fac609fc-f1fc-4e26-ad92-84cf23a234f4

    This intervention fitted in well with Kemi's 'show your workings' theme. She has come out strongly against 'doing things with no plan' and that includes military commitments. The implication being that Iraq wouldn't have been supported by a Kemi-led opposition. She's had a good few days.
    Does the person who has come out strongly against 'doing things with no plan' - have a plan? Or have they stated that there is no need for a plan from her as it's too soon.
    The latter. I was extremely against this, but if she can keep up the recent tempo and tone (giving a strong indication of where things have gone wrong and the required direction of travel, but announcing a policy review) on the various important issues, it will be OK.

    Don't forget that Kemi's Tories will probably be the policy backbone of the next Government, even if they don't get most seats.
    If they are the policy backbone, they will have most seats.

    Reform's problems will commence when people start considering them as the governing party. The cupboard is bare. They may be good at sucking air through teeth and suggesting "I wouldn't do that". What they won't have is any plan to actually demonstrate a coherent alternative way of governing.
    One could say that of Governments of all stripes over the last ten years. Although without doubt Government by a bunch of football hooligans would be uniquely bad.
    True. If one wants a truly bare cupboard, look no further than the Sunak manifesto.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    I see that Bernie and AOC are drawing big crowds on their smash the oligarchy tour.

    If there's ever another election in America, I can see AOC getting the Dem nomination. She seems to be getting Bernies endorsement.

    I am on at 45, I notice she is now 22.

    https://bsky.app/profile/aoc.bsky.social/post/3lkwlajfsbs24

    A lot depends on what the opposition to MAGA needs to look like in 2026 and 2028.

    If they need someone to calm things down, Sanders and AOC are exactly the wrong way to go. Tim Walz, or someone like him, would be way better.

    Unfortunately, it may need a revolutionary to break through. Basically, a real-life
    Katniss Everdeen. AOC fits that bill pretty well.
    Someone to 'calm things down' is the last thing they need right now.
    That's what the Democratic establishment has been trying to do, and the polling is utterly disastrous for them. The Democrat's approval rating from Democratic voters is below zero:
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2025/03/21/polling-data-democrats-primaries-grassroots-tea-party-00241769
    Similar to the GOP base revolt which brought about the Tea Party movement.

    AOC is having a moment. If she can connect with the more centrist Democratic voters too, then it could get interesting.
    If she finds herself becoming too popular I suspect she might find herself interned, repatriated to from whence her forebears came or assassinated.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,030

    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    What the reality of the so-called cuts to PIP really means. An increase of 26.67% over the life of this Parliament not an increase of a third.

    The govt have done the right thing trying to put a brake on this. They need to go further. Scrap the triple lock and radically scale back motability.

    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1903144427855487066?s=61

    How does a private motor finance company impact the public finances?

    Serious question. That has the feel of some vindictive people objecting to disabled people being able to use their Personal Independence Payment to make their lives easier.

    Is there a case to support such a move?

    Perhaps we need to start with not locking disabled people out of the best local parks.
    It’s not really a serious question given the framing.

    One in five new cars are motability and they go to people for all sorts of reasons. The scheme is expanding rapidly and needs to be looked at. For example the cars available on it. This is, ultimately, taxpayers money going to fund these cars.
    I don't see the point there. The rapid expansion is likely to be a one-off due to the market.

    What I am hearing there is inchoate outrage about disabled people spending a non-means-tested benefit on something that they find helps them most effectively.

    I see no rational basis for interference. Basically, it's nothing whatsoever to do with the likes of John Rentoul or any politicians - unless an abuse can be shown. BTW I can't find the tweet - is it genuine?

    If there are believed to be problems about who gets the benefit, then that's about who is eligible for the benefit, not about how it is spent. It is specifically intended as a modest contribution to helping disabled people adapt to their needs.

    I have my own issues with Motability, as you know, mainly around equivalent mobility aids being excluded from the scheme.

    But non-disabled commentators trying to control the lives of disabled people without a really strong case is as obscene as it sounds.

    I haven't seen any weigh in from stirrers or politicians, but to me it has the same whiff as for example the outrage Robert Jenrick was trying to generate when he claimed that disability being listed as a factor deserving a pre-sentencing report in a Court Case was an act of discrimination against white men. But Jenrick is a dog whistler, as we know.
    I would suggest that by 'radically scaling back motability' Rentoul means looking at eligibility first and foremost.

    Your response reminds me of the trans-activist response to women who are angry with cross-dressers exposing themselves in women's loos. A blanket refusal to contemplate that there are people abusing the system - if you identify as disabled, you are. You're entitled to your opinion, but it seems odd to me, because these people are calling into question the benefits that those who are genuinely disabled depend upon, just as the perverts indulging their kink have called into question (wrongly in my view) the right of post-op transsexuals to use women's loos. I would be furious with them, not furious with the people wondering why motability has become a part of Britain's economy that can be seen from space.
    You're spouting off on something you know nothing about as usual.

    There's a set of cirtieria, a rigorous assessment, an appeal process. People who apply either qualify or they don't. Most who apply don't qualify for the higher rate mobility component of PIP, which is what you need to join the Motability scheme.

    There are regular reviews, a process for reporting suspected fraud, an established investigation team, fraudulent claimants are made to pay back the money they've received and can be fined or imprisoned.

    Your comment that "if you identify as disabled, you are" is utter bullshit and very offensive.
    Criteria.
    That's your response? Unnecessarily pointing out an obvious typo.
    Yes,

    Any rule against it ?

    It’s something Luckyguy, who I always like to read, does quite a bit so I thought I’d do it. Save him the bother.
    No rule against it, no, but you might have a good argument to put (I was following the discussion) and this just makes it look like you are accepting defeat and going off on a an unrelated point, and a very weak one at that, because someone making as typo does not make their argument invalid at all.

    Yes @Luckyguy1983 does it a lot (so good of you to save him the trouble :smile: ), but it just looks weak as I said, plus we are not school children so it is a bit insulting.

    In addition @Luckyguy1983 has come a cropper at least a couple of times (I think on his favourite, licence) so when you correct someones spelling or grammar you can be setting yourself up to look a fool. I prefer to make myself look a fool by getting something relevant wrong.

    But regardless of all of that, it is just patronising.
    Whereas Ben’s response was full of needless digs and jibes at a quite reasonable post. You chose not to challenge that.
    I tend to correct it when people slip into Americanisms, which is something I find unwelcome. It's a bit like dispatching grey squirrels - a public duty. And yes, there are times when I get it wrong.

    I don't correct every typo or misplaced apostrophe - on the very odd occasion if I feel that someone has made a particularly pompous post full of pathos and thunderous rhetoric, but made a basic spelling or grammatical error, I might point it out for my own puerile amusement. What can I say, I am only flesh and blood.
    Indeed and what is life without puerile amusement. It’s one of life’s pleasures.

  • Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775

    Battlebus said:

    UK should ‘ideally’ not have ‘any’ troops in Ukraine, says Kemi Badenoch

    https://www.ft.com/content/fac609fc-f1fc-4e26-ad92-84cf23a234f4

    This intervention fitted in well with Kemi's 'show your workings' theme. She has come out strongly against 'doing things with no plan' and that includes military commitments. The implication being that Iraq wouldn't have been supported by a Kemi-led opposition. She's had a good few days.
    Does the person who has come out strongly against 'doing things with no plan' - have a plan? Or have they stated that there is no need for a plan from her as it's too soon.
    The latter. I was extremely against this, but if she can keep up the recent tempo and tone (giving a strong indication of where things have gone wrong and the required direction of travel, but announcing a policy review) on the various important issues, it will be OK.

    Don't forget that Kemi's Tories will probably be the policy backbone of the next Government, even if they don't get most seats.
    If they are the policy backbone, they will have most seats.

    Reform's problems will commence when people start considering them as the governing party. The cupboard is bare. They may be good at sucking air through teeth and suggesting "I wouldn't do that". What they won't have is any plan to actually demonstrate a coherent alternative way of governing.
    One could say that of Governments of all stripes over the last ten years. Although without doubt Government by a bunch of football hooligans would be uniquely bad.
    True. If one wants a truly bare cupboard, look no further than the Sunak manifesto.
    They were offering further tax cuts (on top of the two NI cuts) with no loss of public service which I think we would all take now.
  • Looks like Trump will run in 2028. I predict he gets 98% of the vote.

    Steve Bannon: I'm a firm believer that Trump will run again in 2028. I've already endorsed Trump. I want to see him again in 2028.

    Q: You know he's term limited, how do you think he gets another term?

    Bannon: We're working on it

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1902377254694613475
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,975

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    Is it that time already?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    The Black Country has a rich history of Conservative Party racism. The 1964 General Election campaign in Smethwick and the Rt. Hon. Enoch Powell leap to mind.
  • TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    Worse than... COVID? C'mon.
    For him, yep. People were still placing staff during covid because there was cash sploshing around - no-one coukd spend it but the expectation was tbat they would be able to soon, and in the meantime people were furloughed. Whereas now the outlook for the hospitality industry is so grim that people are not.
    One of the “easy” fixes for last autumn’s budget would be to cancel the NI lower threshold reduction and instead lift the employer’s NI rate on higher incomes. Would completely reverse the impact on low wage employment, while continuing to close the NI/IT gap.
    Do they want to reverse the impact on low wage employment? I can think of several reasons why, from a government perspective, they wouldn't:

    If we are to cope with less low wage migration demand for low wage employees needs to be dampened
    If the government wants to employ people on low wages in the care sector they need to dampen demand from private sector employers for the same people
    The supermarkets in particular have found an employment model based on part time low wage work partly to avoid paying employer taxes and let those staff top up through benefits. This partially addresses that.

    And yes, we should extend NI on higher incomes.

    Finally as the government are so rubbish at pointing it out, and awareness is neglible, for the vast majority of small business with less than 10 staff, employer NI will actually fall or be zero next tax year due to the big increase in employment allowance.
    It was a theory I had at the time that there was some sort of logic to this move, but I don’t think there was. They just wanted to keep the headline rate rise muted.
    Without the low wages we have there would be a massive rise in umemployment. Low wages are a key feature of our economy.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,470
    ydoethur said:

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    Is it that time already?
    Bloody cold in the PacificHeights:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Far_East

    Wonder what one has to do to be sent there these days?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775
    ydoethur said:

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    Is it that time already?
    Speeches/ Xtweets like Jenrick's are grist to the mill for our Russian friends.
  • Did anyone think adolesence was really boring. Was hoping it would go more into how the boy was radicalised online but it didnt.
  • In particular episode 4 dragged and i didnt see the point of it at all
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775
    ydoethur said:

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    Is it that time already?
    A bit later than normal. Transformer sabotage is tiring work.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,994
    edited March 22
    Roger said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    I see that Bernie and AOC are drawing big crowds on their smash the oligarchy tour.

    If there's ever another election in America, I can see AOC getting the Dem nomination. She seems to be getting Bernies endorsement.

    I am on at 45, I notice she is now 22.

    https://bsky.app/profile/aoc.bsky.social/post/3lkwlajfsbs24

    I am on her at 48. I think she is very impressive.
    She has also dropped her pronouns, which is a good sign.
    I had not heard about the latter. That might make what I say above more interesting if she is trying to shift positioning somewhat.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrBO6_am1P0

    FOX News short piece on AOC's pronouns.
    Fascinating for many reasons not least the Mormon outfit worn by the woman on camera right. There was a similar one on Newsnight but in pink with turn up cuffs and collar but in pink. Seems to be a developing Trumpite uniform.
    That's a really interesting comment, but I'm not sure if it is best defined as a "Mormon" outfit (except as characteristic of that community). I think it is older than that in derivation - you will find that type of feature (eg the cuffs, long skirt in a dark colour with showing no skin) in illustrations of immigrants to the USA back in the 17C and 18C.

    (I'd be interested to know what Reformed and perhaps black pentecostalists churches do - who can also have an emphasis on dress codes and strict behaviour.)

    The Mormons were founded in the 1830s, and the values around "modesty" were imo inherited and then preserved from earlier periods. *

    I think it is symbolic on Fox of both "America of our memory that we will rebuild" and "Christian modesty", which fits with the Fox News / Trumpist / MAGA Christian Nationalist theme. It has the same symbolic function as Muslim headscarves of various kinds.

    Here, for a different example, is a painting of " The Early Puritans of New England Going to Church" from 1867 of a 17C scene. Here it's both sexes, but the men with the ones adopted by Lisa Boothe on Fox, with collars and cuffs.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrims_Going_to_Church

    I think you'll find them in the UK in pictures of roundheads, or amongst civil war reenactors such as the Sealed Knot.

    * (Also interestingly were translation errors / cultural idioms in the King James Bible into the Book of Mormon, which translations in the mainstream have been corrected since.)
  • This is interesting. She may have a point here.

    UK - 25% of young people don’t want to work. And I completely understand them. (This may surprise you) and I’m surprised it isn’t more!

    Work used to mean something. It was about producing, building, contributing to a community & having money left over to save to afford & enjoy life…. Having a job meant something.

    Why should they give their time, effort, and energy when they can see taxes wasted, misspent & treated like Monopoly money in a game they will not win. And at the end of the month they will have nothing left over and nothing in return from the government.

    Why should they believe in a system where their votes barely count, where every election, every promise, every so-called change ends up diluted, ignored, or reversed, no matter who they vote for?

    Why should they pay to fund our pension, when they won’t even get one at this rate?

    Why should they bring children into a world where education doesn’t teach them to think critically but instead indoctrinates them into a system designed to churn out compliant workers, not independent minds?

    Why should they bother at all when they are constantly reminded Ai will replace them, regardless of how much effort they put in!

    The truth is, young people aren’t lazy. They just aren’t stupid. They see a system that takes everything from them and gives nothing back. Far better to enjoy an easier life paid for by other mugs.

    And unless something changes, why should they bother?
    7:17 AM · Mar 19, 2025
    ·
    311.5K
    Vie

    https://x.com/Artemisfornow/status/1902258068290740601
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775

    Looks like Trump will run in 2028. I predict he gets 98% of the vote.

    Steve Bannon: I'm a firm believer that Trump will run again in 2028. I've already endorsed Trump. I want to see him again in 2028.

    Q: You know he's term limited, how do you think he gets another term?

    Bannon: We're working on it

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1902377254694613475

    How many posts in can we start discussing RFK Jnr. and vaccination policy? Best to start early I think.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,329

    Looks like Trump will run in 2028. I predict he gets 98% of the vote.

    Steve Bannon: I'm a firm believer that Trump will run again in 2028. I've already endorsed Trump. I want to see him again in 2028.

    Q: You know he's term limited, how do you think he gets another term?

    Bannon: We're working on it

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1902377254694613475

    In 2028 Trump will be 82. So, were he to fiddle the system to run again he'd be 86 when he competed his term.
    Things, bad things, often happen in that and indeed the previous decade of one's life. As I know to my cost.
  • ydoethur said:

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    Is it that time already?
    A bit later than normal. Transformer sabotage is tiring work.
    Doesnt look good for the uk to be shown as so inept does it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,994

    ydoethur said:

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    Is it that time already?
    A bit later than normal. Transformer sabotage is tiring work.
    I think we remarked on that yesterday.

    One thing I note is that he is talking about "British born" rather than "British citizens" - as per usual hyping up the number of 'foreigners' vs 'natives'.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775

    ydoethur said:

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    Is it that time already?
    A bit later than normal. Transformer sabotage is tiring work.
    Doesnt look good for the uk to be shown as so inept does it?
    FTFY
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,603

    ydoethur said:

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    Is it that time already?
    A bit later than normal. Transformer sabotage is tiring work.
    Doesnt look good for the uk to be shown as so inept does it.
    Could be worse, could be Russian air defence.
  • Looks like Trump will run in 2028. I predict he gets 98% of the vote.

    Steve Bannon: I'm a firm believer that Trump will run again in 2028. I've already endorsed Trump. I want to see him again in 2028.

    Q: You know he's term limited, how do you think he gets another term?

    Bannon: We're working on it

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1902377254694613475

    In 2028 Trump will be 82. So, were he to fiddle the system to run again he'd be 86 when he competed his term.
    Things, bad things, often happen in that and indeed the previous decade of one's life. As I know to my cost.
    I imagine Vance could take over at some point. Hes more intelligent anyway.
  • Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    Is it that time already?
    A bit later than normal. Transformer sabotage is tiring work.
    Doesnt look good for the uk to be shown as so inept does it.
    Could be worse, could be Russian air defence.
    You better watch your posts foxy if you are travelling to the US. You may become a person of interest.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,874

    Did anyone think adolesence was really boring. Was hoping it would go more into how the boy was radicalised online but it didnt.

    I'm sure you'll be able to enlighten us on online radicalisation.
  • Eabhal said:

    Did anyone think adolesence was really boring. Was hoping it would go more into how the boy was radicalised online but it didnt.

    I'm sure you'll be able to enlighten us on online radicalisation.
    Indeed. I see it on here all the time lol.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,984
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    Worse than... COVID? C'mon.
    For him, yep. People were still placing staff during covid because there was cash sploshing around - no-one coukd spend it but the expectation was tbat they would be able to soon, and in the meantime people were furloughed. Whereas now the outlook for the hospitality industry is so grim that people are not.
    One of the “easy” fixes for last autumn’s budget would be to cancel the NI lower threshold reduction and instead lift the employer’s NI rate on higher incomes. Would completely reverse the impact on low wage employment, while continuing to close the NI/IT gap.
    Do they want to reverse the impact on low wage employment? I can think of several reasons why, from a government perspective, they wouldn't:

    If we are to cope with less low wage migration demand for low wage employees needs to be dampened
    If the government wants to employ people on low wages in the care sector they need to dampen demand from private sector employers for the same people
    The supermarkets in particular have found an employment model based on part time low wage work partly to avoid paying employer taxes and let those staff top up through benefits. This partially addresses that.

    And yes, we should extend NI on higher incomes.

    Finally as the government are so rubbish at pointing it out, and awareness is neglible, for the vast majority of small business with less than 10 staff, employer NI will actually fall or be zero next tax year due to the big increase in employment allowance.
    It was a theory I had at the time that there was some sort of logic to this move, but I don’t think there was. They just wanted to keep the headline rate rise muted.
    It was probably mostly as you say, but there are some benefits, as well as the more obvious costs to the change. I'm sure the Treasury will have made the politicians aware of those benefits.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,883

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    A depressing but entirely unsurprising poll for the opposition parties and the Tories in particular. Where is the narrative about how we start to get out of this mess, however slowly?

    We are borrowing £100bn a year. Reeves says she will not borrow for current consumption but is finding it increasingly difficult to make the numbers work for that. Expect more tax increases (hopefully not as economically damaging as those in October) and fudging around what is "investment".

    That massive stimulus to demand is not generating growth. It is not generating growth because too much of our consumption is spent on imports. We are bleeding nearly £50bn of demand to imports a year. Obviously we need imports. But we also need to produce as much as we consume.

    So, our priorities should be increasing investment, reducing consumption, increasing production and eliminating both the fiscal and trade deficits. Is this really this hard? Obviously the devil is in the details but what is needed is a narrative that both acknowledges the mess we are in and the long, painful journey we need to undertake to get out of it. Where is the shadow Chancellor?

    Trouble is, we don't want to consume less. Many people at the bottom can't realistically consume meaningfully less, and those at the top think that they deserve to consume more.

    (The finger pointing about why we don't need to get to net zero pretty urgently is another manifestation of roughly the same psychology.)

    So we get these silly fantasies that, as long as we stop this or that bit of spending that doesn't really seem to benefit us, everything will be fine.

    It's bigger than that, and probably has been since the Lawson years.
    Consuming less is precisely the opposite of what we need to country to do. As I’ve pointed out a few times we have historically low levels of private debt and a growing savings rate.

    Businesses aren’t spending money, and not are households. We’ve become a nation of misers, building up our own balance sheets at the expense of growth and investment. So government has ended up having to do our borrowing for us.

    We need to be encouraging everyone to spend spend spend. Eat out to help out. Do that kitchen extension. Refurbish that office. Build the new datacentre, or the solar plant. Buy that IT system.

    There are things government can do to stimulate this. Planning reform is one, but targeted incentives should be part of it too.
    Yes, but it needs to be consumption that stimulates our economy, rather than just sucks in imports or spent on foreign holidays.
    Although, if we could all consume less and not feel the need to have stuff for stuff's sake, we'd all probably be a lot happier.
    It's not all about "stuff" though. Taking the kids to Centre Parcs or Disneyworld. £400 for Glastonbury weekend.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,030

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    Is it that time already?
    A bit later than normal. Transformer sabotage is tiring work.
    Doesnt look good for the uk to be shown as so inept does it.
    Could be worse, could be Russian air defence.
    You better watch your posts foxy if you are travelling to the US. You may become a person of interest.
    Is Foxy actually Jim Cavaziel ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,603
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    Is it that time already?
    A bit later than normal. Transformer sabotage is tiring work.
    I think we remarked on that yesterday.

    One thing I note is that he is talking about "British born" rather than "British citizens" - as per usual hyping up the number of 'foreigners' vs 'natives'.
    Jenricks piece is mendacious in so many ways. The idea that our government and media never discuss immigration, cultural change etc is pure bollocks. The implication that only white people can be properly British is particularly offensive though.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,008

    Looks like Trump will run in 2028. I predict he gets 98% of the vote.

    Steve Bannon: I'm a firm believer that Trump will run again in 2028. I've already endorsed Trump. I want to see him again in 2028.

    Q: You know he's term limited, how do you think he gets another term?

    Bannon: We're working on it

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1902377254694613475

    The 22nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution explicitly limits a president to two terms, whether consecutive or nonconsecutive. His first term was 2017–2021, and his second would be 2025–2029. After that, he’s constitutionally barred from seeking a third term, regardless of his age, health, or popularity. That’s the hard limit.

    So, if he 'runs' again, he's already a dictator.
  • He has a point here.

    The Left created individuals like Trump, Musk and Tate. These men are the correction to the Left's DEI, anti-male extremism. Now they want to whine and screech about what they themselves created, like toddlers shitting their nappies and then complaining about the bad smell.
    11:20 AM · Mar 22, 2025
    ·
    1,211
    Views

    https://x.com/andrewlawrence/status/1903406435477651960
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    Is it that time already?
    A bit later than normal. Transformer sabotage is tiring work.
    I think we remarked on that yesterday.

    One thing I note is that he is talking about "British born" rather than "British citizens" - as per usual hyping up the number of 'foreigners' vs 'natives'.
    Jenricks piece is mendacious in so many ways. The idea that our government and media never discuss immigration, cultural change etc is pure bollocks. The implication that only white people can be properly British is particularly offensive though.
    Jenrick believes he has discovered a rich vein of gold and he is chipping away with gusto. After Trump, it may just be fool's gold.
  • Looks like Trump will run in 2028. I predict he gets 98% of the vote.

    Steve Bannon: I'm a firm believer that Trump will run again in 2028. I've already endorsed Trump. I want to see him again in 2028.

    Q: You know he's term limited, how do you think he gets another term?

    Bannon: We're working on it

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1902377254694613475

    The 22nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution explicitly limits a president to two terms, whether consecutive or nonconsecutive. His first term was 2017–2021, and his second would be 2025–2029. After that, he’s constitutionally barred from seeking a third term, regardless of his age, health, or popularity. That’s the hard limit.

    So, if he 'runs' again, he's already a dictator.
    Well sure but a dictator is what he wants to be. Whether there will be meaningful opposition is doubtful. The american people have rolled over like little puppies.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,030

    He has a point here.

    The Left created individuals like Trump, Musk and Tate. These men are the correction to the Left's DEI, anti-male extremism. Now they want to whine and screech about what they themselves created, like toddlers shitting their nappies and then complaining about the bad smell.
    11:20 AM · Mar 22, 2025
    ·
    1,211
    Views

    https://x.com/andrewlawrence/status/1903406435477651960

    Jonathan Pie, Who you may know from Russia Today, made the same point after the Trumpdozer won in 2016.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,994
    MattW said:

    Roger said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    I see that Bernie and AOC are drawing big crowds on their smash the oligarchy tour.

    If there's ever another election in America, I can see AOC getting the Dem nomination. She seems to be getting Bernies endorsement.

    I am on at 45, I notice she is now 22.

    https://bsky.app/profile/aoc.bsky.social/post/3lkwlajfsbs24

    I am on her at 48. I think she is very impressive.
    She has also dropped her pronouns, which is a good sign.
    I had not heard about the latter. That might make what I say above more interesting if she is trying to shift positioning somewhat.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrBO6_am1P0

    FOX News short piece on AOC's pronouns.
    Fascinating for many reasons not least the Mormon outfit worn by the woman on camera right. There was a similar one on Newsnight but in pink with turn up cuffs and collar but in pink. Seems to be a developing Trumpite uniform.
    That's a really interesting comment, but I'm not sure if it is best defined as a "Mormon" outfit (except as characteristic of that community). I think it is older than that in derivation - you will find that type of feature (eg the cuffs, long skirt in a dark colour with showing no skin) in illustrations of immigrants to the USA back in the 17C and 18C.

    (I'd be interested to know what Reformed and perhaps black pentecostalists churches do - who can also have an emphasis on dress codes and strict behaviour.)

    The Mormons were founded in the 1830s, and the values around "modesty" were imo inherited and then preserved from earlier periods. *

    I think it is symbolic on Fox of both "America of our memory that we will rebuild" and "Christian modesty", which fits with the Fox News / Trumpist / MAGA Christian Nationalist theme. It has the same symbolic function as Muslim headscarves of various kinds.

    Here, for a different example, is a painting of " The Early Puritans of New England Going to Church" from 1867 of a 17C scene. Here it's both sexes, but the men with the ones adopted by Lisa Boothe on Fox, with collars and cuffs.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrims_Going_to_Church

    I think you'll find them in the UK in pictures of roundheads, or amongst civil war reenactors such as the Sealed Knot.

    * (Also interestingly were translation errors / cultural idioms in the King James Bible into the Book of Mormon, which translations in the mainstream have been corrected since.)
    And, of course, you'll find the collar and cuffs in "Witchfinder General", with Vincent Price playing Matthew Hopkins !

    https://youtu.be/s6AmG8AufkM?t=423
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775

    He has a point here.

    The Left created individuals like Trump, Musk and Tate. These men are the correction to the Left's DEI, anti-male extremism. Now they want to whine and screech about what they themselves created, like toddlers shitting their nappies and then complaining about the bad smell.
    11:20 AM · Mar 22, 2025
    ·
    1,211
    Views

    https://x.com/andrewlawrence/status/1903406435477651960

    No they didn't.

    Although arguably the Soviet Union created that topless, horse riding Leningrad taxi driver. Phwoar!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,121

    Looks like Trump will run in 2028. I predict he gets 98% of the vote.

    Steve Bannon: I'm a firm believer that Trump will run again in 2028. I've already endorsed Trump. I want to see him again in 2028.

    Q: You know he's term limited, how do you think he gets another term?

    Bannon: We're working on it

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1902377254694613475

    No, he won't get 98%.

    Vlad only got 88% last year, so little Don won't dare exceed that.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,272

    He has a point here.

    No he doesn't

    Trump and Musk always existed

    Bizarre priorities by previous administrations may have given people an excuse to vote for scumbags, but they were not created by "the left" any more than Hitler was
  • Looks like Trump will run in 2028. I predict he gets 98% of the vote.

    Steve Bannon: I'm a firm believer that Trump will run again in 2028. I've already endorsed Trump. I want to see him again in 2028.

    Q: You know he's term limited, how do you think he gets another term?

    Bannon: We're working on it

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1902377254694613475

    No, he won't get 98%.

    Vlad only got 88% last year, so little Don won't dare exceed that.
    Trumo is going to be the bestest dictator ever.
  • Scott_xP said:

    He has a point here.

    No he doesn't

    Trump and Musk always existed

    Bizarre priorities by previous administrations may have given people an excuse to vote for scumbags, but they were not created by "the left" any more than Hitler was
    Hitler was a reaction to the excesses of the weimar republic in the 1920s.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775

    Looks like Trump will run in 2028. I predict he gets 98% of the vote.

    Steve Bannon: I'm a firm believer that Trump will run again in 2028. I've already endorsed Trump. I want to see him again in 2028.

    Q: You know he's term limited, how do you think he gets another term?

    Bannon: We're working on it

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1902377254694613475

    No, he won't get 98%.

    Vlad only got 88% last year, so little Don won't dare exceed that.
    Trumo is going to be the bestest dictator ever.
    Is that the love child of Trump and Andrew Cuomo?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,302
    edited March 22

    This is interesting. She may have a point here.

    UK - 25% of young people don’t want to work. And I completely understand them. (This may surprise you) and I’m surprised it isn’t more!

    Work used to mean something. It was about producing, building, contributing to a community & having money left over to save to afford & enjoy life…. Having a job meant something.

    Why should they give their time, effort, and energy when they can see taxes wasted, misspent & treated like Monopoly money in a game they will not win. And at the end of the month they will have nothing left over and nothing in return from the government.

    Why should they believe in a system where their votes barely count, where every election, every promise, every so-called change ends up diluted, ignored, or reversed, no matter who they vote for?

    Why should they pay to fund our pension, when they won’t even get one at this rate?

    Why should they bring children into a world where education doesn’t teach them to think critically but instead indoctrinates them into a system designed to churn out compliant workers, not independent minds?

    Why should they bother at all when they are constantly reminded Ai will replace them, regardless of how much effort they put in!

    The truth is, young people aren’t lazy. They just aren’t stupid. They see a system that takes everything from them and gives nothing back. Far better to enjoy an easier life paid for by other mugs.

    And unless something changes, why should they bother?
    7:17 AM · Mar 19, 2025
    ·
    311.5K
    Vie

    https://x.com/Artemisfornow/status/1902258068290740601

    Did young people have it easy, working in coal mines, insanitary factories, or in agriculture? Or fighting two World Wars?

    That tweet is just an endless whine.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775

    Scott_xP said:

    He has a point here.

    No he doesn't

    Trump and Musk always existed

    Bizarre priorities by previous administrations may have given people an excuse to vote for scumbags, but they were not created by "the left" any more than Hitler was
    Hitler was a reaction to the excesses of the weimar republic in the 1920s.
    In Russia, do you know Hitler only had one ball, the other was in the Albert Hall?
  • Sean_F said:

    This is interesting. She may have a point here.

    UK - 25% of young people don’t want to work. And I completely understand them. (This may surprise you) and I’m surprised it isn’t more!

    Work used to mean something. It was about producing, building, contributing to a community & having money left over to save to afford & enjoy life…. Having a job meant something.

    Why should they give their time, effort, and energy when they can see taxes wasted, misspent & treated like Monopoly money in a game they will not win. And at the end of the month they will have nothing left over and nothing in return from the government.

    Why should they believe in a system where their votes barely count, where every election, every promise, every so-called change ends up diluted, ignored, or reversed, no matter who they vote for?

    Why should they pay to fund our pension, when they won’t even get one at this rate?

    Why should they bring children into a world where education doesn’t teach them to think critically but instead indoctrinates them into a system designed to churn out compliant workers, not independent minds?

    Why should they bother at all when they are constantly reminded Ai will replace them, regardless of how much effort they put in!

    The truth is, young people aren’t lazy. They just aren’t stupid. They see a system that takes everything from them and gives nothing back. Far better to enjoy an easier life paid for by other mugs.

    And unless something changes, why should they bother?
    7:17 AM · Mar 19, 2025
    ·
    311.5K
    Vie

    https://x.com/Artemisfornow/status/1902258068290740601

    Did young people have it easy, working in coal mines, insanitary factories, or in agriculture? Or fighting two World Wars?

    That tweet is just an endless whine.
    Cant imagine you have ever worked in a coalmine.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,570

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    There’s 2 new posh hotels and a number of restaurants opening in Newcastle recently and in the near future. Can’t be all bad
    Overall it seems pretty dire for the industry.
    There will always be exceptions.
  • Scott_xP said:

    He has a point here.

    No he doesn't

    Trump and Musk always existed

    Bizarre priorities by previous administrations may have given people an excuse to vote for scumbags, but they were not created by "the left" any more than Hitler was
    Hitler was a reaction to the excesses of the weimar republic in the 1920s.
    In Russia, do you know Hitler only had one ball, the other was in the Albert Hall?
    Notice Putin is looking pretty chipper these days. Things seem to be breaking well for him.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,994
    Diversion:

    The Hidden Rules of the Puritan Fashion Police
    https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/sumptuary-laws-puritan-fashion-colonies-modesty
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,603
    edited March 22
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Roger said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    I see that Bernie and AOC are drawing big crowds on their smash the oligarchy tour.

    If there's ever another election in America, I can see AOC getting the Dem nomination. She seems to be getting Bernies endorsement.

    I am on at 45, I notice she is now 22.

    https://bsky.app/profile/aoc.bsky.social/post/3lkwlajfsbs24

    I am on her at 48. I think she is very impressive.
    She has also dropped her pronouns, which is a good sign.
    I had not heard about the latter. That might make what I say above more interesting if she is trying to shift positioning somewhat.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrBO6_am1P0

    FOX News short piece on AOC's pronouns.
    Fascinating for many reasons not least the Mormon outfit worn by the woman on camera right. There was a similar one on Newsnight but in pink with turn up cuffs and collar but in pink. Seems to be a developing Trumpite uniform.
    That's a really interesting comment, but I'm not sure if it is best defined as a "Mormon" outfit (except as characteristic of that community). I think it is older than that in derivation - you will find that type of feature (eg the cuffs, long skirt in a dark colour with showing no skin) in illustrations of immigrants to the USA back in the 17C and 18C.

    (I'd be interested to know what Reformed and perhaps black pentecostalists churches do - who can also have an emphasis on dress codes and strict behaviour.)

    The Mormons were founded in the 1830s, and the values around "modesty" were imo inherited and then preserved from earlier periods. *

    I think it is symbolic on Fox of both "America of our memory that we will rebuild" and "Christian modesty", which fits with the Fox News / Trumpist / MAGA Christian Nationalist theme. It has the same symbolic function as Muslim headscarves of various kinds.

    Here, for a different example, is a painting of " The Early Puritans of New England Going to Church" from 1867 of a 17C scene. Here it's both sexes, but the men with the ones adopted by Lisa Boothe on Fox, with collars and cuffs.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrims_Going_to_Church

    I think you'll find them in the UK in pictures of roundheads, or amongst civil war reenactors such as the Sealed Knot.

    * (Also interestingly were translation errors / cultural idioms in the King James Bible into the Book of Mormon, which translations in the mainstream have been corrected since.)
    And, of course, you'll find the collar and cuffs in "Witchfinder General", with Vincent Price playing Matthew Hopkins !

    https://youtu.be/s6AmG8AufkM?t=423
    I wouldn't read so much into it. Fashions change over time, and the shift from bleached blonde MAGA anchor-women in short dresses to these outfits may not be of a lot of significance, just as the miniskirt and hotpants era gave way to maxi dresses, and Laura Ashley shepherdess style. Cottagecore is quite a meme in the USA.

    Interestingly it is popular both with the Trad-wife phenomenon, but also Millenial and Gen Z lesbians.

    https://www.autostraddle.com/what-is-cottagecore-and-why-do-young-queer-people-love-it/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,329

    Scott_xP said:

    He has a point here.

    No he doesn't

    Trump and Musk always existed

    Bizarre priorities by previous administrations may have given people an excuse to vote for scumbags, but they were not created by "the left" any more than Hitler was
    Hitler was a reaction to the excesses of the weimar republic in the 1920s.
    In Russia, do you know Hitler only had one ball, the other was in the Albert Hall?
    I remember the second line as Goering having two, but very small.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775

    Scott_xP said:

    He has a point here.

    No he doesn't

    Trump and Musk always existed

    Bizarre priorities by previous administrations may have given people an excuse to vote for scumbags, but they were not created by "the left" any more than Hitler was
    Hitler was a reaction to the excesses of the weimar republic in the 1920s.
    In Russia, do you know Hitler only had one ball, the other was in the Albert Hall?
    Notice Putin is looking pretty chipper these days. Things seem to be breaking well for him.
    I can't think why. The future is bright, the future is orange.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,302

    Sean_F said:

    This is interesting. She may have a point here.

    UK - 25% of young people don’t want to work. And I completely understand them. (This may surprise you) and I’m surprised it isn’t more!

    Work used to mean something. It was about producing, building, contributing to a community & having money left over to save to afford & enjoy life…. Having a job meant something.

    Why should they give their time, effort, and energy when they can see taxes wasted, misspent & treated like Monopoly money in a game they will not win. And at the end of the month they will have nothing left over and nothing in return from the government.

    Why should they believe in a system where their votes barely count, where every election, every promise, every so-called change ends up diluted, ignored, or reversed, no matter who they vote for?

    Why should they pay to fund our pension, when they won’t even get one at this rate?

    Why should they bring children into a world where education doesn’t teach them to think critically but instead indoctrinates them into a system designed to churn out compliant workers, not independent minds?

    Why should they bother at all when they are constantly reminded Ai will replace them, regardless of how much effort they put in!

    The truth is, young people aren’t lazy. They just aren’t stupid. They see a system that takes everything from them and gives nothing back. Far better to enjoy an easier life paid for by other mugs.

    And unless something changes, why should they bother?
    7:17 AM · Mar 19, 2025
    ·
    311.5K
    Vie

    https://x.com/Artemisfornow/status/1902258068290740601

    Did young people have it easy, working in coal mines, insanitary factories, or in agriculture? Or fighting two World Wars?

    That tweet is just an endless whine.
    Cant imagine you have ever worked in a coalmine.
    Talk about missing the point.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,329

    Sean_F said:

    This is interesting. She may have a point here.

    UK - 25% of young people don’t want to work. And I completely understand them. (This may surprise you) and I’m surprised it isn’t more!

    Work used to mean something. It was about producing, building, contributing to a community & having money left over to save to afford & enjoy life…. Having a job meant something.

    Why should they give their time, effort, and energy when they can see taxes wasted, misspent & treated like Monopoly money in a game they will not win. And at the end of the month they will have nothing left over and nothing in return from the government.

    Why should they believe in a system where their votes barely count, where every election, every promise, every so-called change ends up diluted, ignored, or reversed, no matter who they vote for?

    Why should they pay to fund our pension, when they won’t even get one at this rate?

    Why should they bring children into a world where education doesn’t teach them to think critically but instead indoctrinates them into a system designed to churn out compliant workers, not independent minds?

    Why should they bother at all when they are constantly reminded Ai will replace them, regardless of how much effort they put in!

    The truth is, young people aren’t lazy. They just aren’t stupid. They see a system that takes everything from them and gives nothing back. Far better to enjoy an easier life paid for by other mugs.

    And unless something changes, why should they bother?
    7:17 AM · Mar 19, 2025
    ·
    311.5K
    Vie

    https://x.com/Artemisfornow/status/1902258068290740601

    Did young people have it easy, working in coal mines, insanitary factories, or in agriculture? Or fighting two World Wars?

    That tweet is just an endless whine.
    Cant imagine you have ever worked in a coalmine.
    Never assume anything about a person's background. Only comment if you know.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,302

    Scott_xP said:

    He has a point here.

    No he doesn't

    Trump and Musk always existed

    Bizarre priorities by previous administrations may have given people an excuse to vote for scumbags, but they were not created by "the left" any more than Hitler was
    Hitler was a reaction to the excesses of the weimar republic in the 1920s.
    In Russia, do you know Hitler only had one ball, the other was in the Albert Hall?
    I remember the second line as Goering having two, but very small.
    And Goebbels had no balls, at all.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,994
    edited March 22
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Roger said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    I see that Bernie and AOC are drawing big crowds on their smash the oligarchy tour.

    If there's ever another election in America, I can see AOC getting the Dem nomination. She seems to be getting Bernies endorsement.

    I am on at 45, I notice she is now 22.

    https://bsky.app/profile/aoc.bsky.social/post/3lkwlajfsbs24

    I am on her at 48. I think she is very impressive.
    She has also dropped her pronouns, which is a good sign.
    I had not heard about the latter. That might make what I say above more interesting if she is trying to shift positioning somewhat.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrBO6_am1P0

    FOX News short piece on AOC's pronouns.
    Fascinating for many reasons not least the Mormon outfit worn by the woman on camera right. There was a similar one on Newsnight but in pink with turn up cuffs and collar but in pink. Seems to be a developing Trumpite uniform.
    That's a really interesting comment, but I'm not sure if it is best defined as a "Mormon" outfit (except as characteristic of that community). I think it is older than that in derivation - you will find that type of feature (eg the cuffs, long skirt in a dark colour with showing no skin) in illustrations of immigrants to the USA back in the 17C and 18C.

    (I'd be interested to know what Reformed and perhaps black pentecostalists churches do - who can also have an emphasis on dress codes and strict behaviour.)

    The Mormons were founded in the 1830s, and the values around "modesty" were imo inherited and then preserved from earlier periods. *

    I think it is symbolic on Fox of both "America of our memory that we will rebuild" and "Christian modesty", which fits with the Fox News / Trumpist / MAGA Christian Nationalist theme. It has the same symbolic function as Muslim headscarves of various kinds.

    Here, for a different example, is a painting of " The Early Puritans of New England Going to Church" from 1867 of a 17C scene. Here it's both sexes, but the men with the ones adopted by Lisa Boothe on Fox, with collars and cuffs.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrims_Going_to_Church

    I think you'll find them in the UK in pictures of roundheads, or amongst civil war reenactors such as the Sealed Knot.

    * (Also interestingly were translation errors / cultural idioms in the King James Bible into the Book of Mormon, which translations in the mainstream have been corrected since.)
    And, of course, you'll find the collar and cuffs in "Witchfinder General", with Vincent Price playing Matthew Hopkins !

    https://youtu.be/s6AmG8AufkM?t=423
    I wouldn't read so much into it. Fashions change over time, and the shift from bleached blonde MAGA anchor-women in short dresses to these outfits may not be of a lot of significance, just as the miniskirt and hotpants era gave way to maxi dresses, and Laura Ashley shepherdess style. Cottagecore is quite a meme in the USA.

    Interestingly it is popular both with the Trad-wife phenomenon, but also Millenial and Gen Z lesbians.

    https://www.autostraddle.com/what-is-cottagecore-and-why-do-young-queer-people-love-it/
    Time will tell :smile: .

    Through a different set of spectacles, the Hemline Index says Lisa's just-above-the-ankle skirt length means a crashing economy.
  • Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    A depressing but entirely unsurprising poll for the opposition parties and the Tories in particular. Where is the narrative about how we start to get out of this mess, however slowly?

    We are borrowing £100bn a year. Reeves says she will not borrow for current consumption but is finding it increasingly difficult to make the numbers work for that. Expect more tax increases (hopefully not as economically damaging as those in October) and fudging around what is "investment".

    That massive stimulus to demand is not generating growth. It is not generating growth because too much of our consumption is spent on imports. We are bleeding nearly £50bn of demand to imports a year. Obviously we need imports. But we also need to produce as much as we consume.

    So, our priorities should be increasing investment, reducing consumption, increasing production and eliminating both the fiscal and trade deficits. Is this really this hard? Obviously the devil is in the details but what is needed is a narrative that both acknowledges the mess we are in and the long, painful journey we need to undertake to get out of it. Where is the shadow Chancellor?

    Trouble is, we don't want to consume less. Many people at the bottom can't realistically consume meaningfully less, and those at the top think that they deserve to consume more.

    (The finger pointing about why we don't need to get to net zero pretty urgently is another manifestation of roughly the same psychology.)

    So we get these silly fantasies that, as long as we stop this or that bit of spending that doesn't really seem to benefit us, everything will be fine.

    It's bigger than that, and probably has been since the Lawson years.
    Consuming less is precisely the opposite of what we need to country to do. As I’ve pointed out a few times we have historically low levels of private debt and a growing savings rate.

    Businesses aren’t spending money, and not are households. We’ve become a nation of misers, building up our own balance sheets at the expense of growth and investment. So government has ended up having to do our borrowing for us.

    We need to be encouraging everyone to spend spend spend. Eat out to help out. Do that kitchen extension. Refurbish that office. Build the new datacentre, or the solar plant. Buy that IT system.

    There are things government can do to stimulate this. Planning reform is one, but targeted incentives should be part of it too.
    Yes, but it needs to be consumption that stimulates our economy, rather than just sucks in imports or spent on foreign holidays.
    Although, if we could all consume less and not feel the need to have stuff for stuff's sake, we'd all probably be a lot happier.
    It's not all about "stuff" though. Taking the kids to Centre Parcs or Disneyworld. £400 for Glastonbury weekend.
    We equate spending money with being happy.
    That's just how it is for modern humans, but what has actually happened is that we have turned actual day to day survival into a pay to play game and an ever increasing number of people are finding it harder to participate.
    There's no way out of it. Wealth inequality will only get worse, even as the transnational corporations that control everything get richer and increase "growth".

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,529

    Scott_xP said:

    He has a point here.

    No he doesn't

    Trump and Musk always existed

    Bizarre priorities by previous administrations may have given people an excuse to vote for scumbags, but they were not created by "the left" any more than Hitler was
    Hitler was a reaction to the excesses of the weimar republic in the 1920s.
    In Russia, do you know Hitler only had one ball, the other was in the Albert Hall?
    I remember the second line as Goering having two, but very small.
    There are versions of this, obviously. In my recollection, admittedly from the 70s and 80s, it continued:

    ...some say, that he has none at all
    Himmler, the story's similar
    ...(don't recall after that)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,329
    Sean_F said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He has a point here.

    No he doesn't

    Trump and Musk always existed

    Bizarre priorities by previous administrations may have given people an excuse to vote for scumbags, but they were not created by "the left" any more than Hitler was
    Hitler was a reaction to the excesses of the weimar republic in the 1920s.
    In Russia, do you know Hitler only had one ball, the other was in the Albert Hall?
    I remember the second line as Goering having two, but very small.
    And Goebbels had no balls, at all.
    That was the fourth, and last, line. The third was "Himmler has something similar".
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,030
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    There’s 2 new posh hotels and a number of restaurants opening in Newcastle recently and in the near future. Can’t be all bad
    Overall it seems pretty dire for the industry.
    There will always be exceptions.
    Plenty closing up here too. Only this week Hard Rock Cafe in Newcastle announced its closure.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,030

    Scott_xP said:

    He has a point here.

    No he doesn't

    Trump and Musk always existed

    Bizarre priorities by previous administrations may have given people an excuse to vote for scumbags, but they were not created by "the left" any more than Hitler was
    Hitler was a reaction to the excesses of the weimar republic in the 1920s.
    In Russia, do you know Hitler only had one ball, the other was in the Albert Hall?
    I remember the second line as Goering having two, but very small.
    That’s still two more than Goebbels though.
  • Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    There’s 2 new posh hotels and a number of restaurants opening in Newcastle recently and in the near future. Can’t be all bad
    Overall it seems pretty dire for the industry.
    There will always be exceptions.
    Plenty closing up here too. Only this week Hard Rock Cafe in Newcastle announced its closure.
    Not the disposable income now in the lower two thirds ofvthe income scale for hospitality to thrive.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,329
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He has a point here.

    No he doesn't

    Trump and Musk always existed

    Bizarre priorities by previous administrations may have given people an excuse to vote for scumbags, but they were not created by "the left" any more than Hitler was
    Hitler was a reaction to the excesses of the weimar republic in the 1920s.
    In Russia, do you know Hitler only had one ball, the other was in the Albert Hall?
    I remember the second line as Goering having two, but very small.
    That’s still two more than Goebbels though.
    I think I learned that when I was about seven. I wasn't quite sure about the significance of small, or indeed absent, balls at the time though.
  • He wants her to bend the knee. Ah power such a drug.

    While the State of Maine has apologized for their Governor’s strong, but totally incorrect, statement about men playing in women’s sports while at the White House House Governor’s Conference, we have not heard from the Governor herself, and she is the one that matters in such cases. Therefore, we need a full throated apology from the Governor herself, and a statement that she will never make such an unlawful challenge to the Federal Government again, before this case can be settled. I’m sure she will be able to do that quite easily. Thank you for your attention to this matter and, MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!! DJT

    Donald Trump Truth Social Post 3/22/25 07:39 AM
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,030

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    There’s 2 new posh hotels and a number of restaurants opening in Newcastle recently and in the near future. Can’t be all bad
    Overall it seems pretty dire for the industry.
    There will always be exceptions.
    Plenty closing up here too. Only this week Hard Rock Cafe in Newcastle announced its closure.
    Not the disposable income now in the lower two thirds ofvthe income scale for hospitality to thrive.
    Not for all certainly, some will survive and do okay, others will die. But it’s stormy weather ahead for hospitality it seems.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    There’s 2 new posh hotels and a number of restaurants opening in Newcastle recently and in the near future. Can’t be all bad
    Overall it seems pretty dire for the industry.
    There will always be exceptions.
    Plenty closing up here too. Only this week Hard Rock Cafe in Newcastle announced its closure.
    Not the disposable income now in the lower two thirds ofvthe income scale for hospitality to thrive.
    I don't believe it is simply a reduction in disposable income, I think a distinct decline in quality hasn't helped. It's borscht with everything in pubs these days.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,030

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He has a point here.

    No he doesn't

    Trump and Musk always existed

    Bizarre priorities by previous administrations may have given people an excuse to vote for scumbags, but they were not created by "the left" any more than Hitler was
    Hitler was a reaction to the excesses of the weimar republic in the 1920s.
    In Russia, do you know Hitler only had one ball, the other was in the Albert Hall?
    I remember the second line as Goering having two, but very small.
    That’s still two more than Goebbels though.
    I think I learned that when I was about seven. I wasn't quite sure about the significance of small, or indeed absent, balls at the time though.
    Especially given he sired 6 children. Maybe they just never dropped.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,030

    He wants her to bend the knee. Ah power such a drug.

    While the State of Maine has apologized for their Governor’s strong, but totally incorrect, statement about men playing in women’s sports while at the White House House Governor’s Conference, we have not heard from the Governor herself, and she is the one that matters in such cases. Therefore, we need a full throated apology from the Governor herself, and a statement that she will never make such an unlawful challenge to the Federal Government again, before this case can be settled. I’m sure she will be able to do that quite easily. Thank you for your attention to this matter and, MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!! DJT

    Donald Trump Truth Social Post 3/22/25 07:39 AM

    I misread DJT as DLT, who you may well know as the Hairy cornflake. From Manchester.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775
    edited March 22

    Every day is a school day for Russian trolls.

    Hitler has only got one ball,
    Göring has two but very small,[a]
    Himmler is rather sim'lar,[b]
    But poor old Goebbels has no balls at all.

    Or

    Hitler has only got one ball,
    The other is in the Albert Hall,
    His mother, the dirty b*gger,[c]
    Chopped it off when Hitler was small.[d]
    She threw it into the apple tree,[e]
    the wind blew it into the deep blue sea,
    Where the fishes got out their dishes,
    And ate scallops and b*ll*cks for tea.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,603
    edited March 22
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    There’s 2 new posh hotels and a number of restaurants opening in Newcastle recently and in the near future. Can’t be all bad
    Overall it seems pretty dire for the industry.
    There will always be exceptions.
    Plenty closing up here too. Only this week Hard Rock Cafe in Newcastle announced its closure.
    I think the current economic environment is particularly tough on such dated middle market chains. Hard Rock is dying out for the same reason places like Berni Inns did.

    High end foodie places and fast food places seem to be prospering, as well as independent restaurants with more niche menus.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    There’s 2 new posh hotels and a number of restaurants opening in Newcastle recently and in the near future. Can’t be all bad
    Overall it seems pretty dire for the industry.
    There will always be exceptions.
    Plenty closing up here too. Only this week Hard Rock Cafe in Newcastle announced its closure.
    I think the current economic environment is particularly tough on such dated middle market chains.Hard Rock is dying out for the same reason places like Berni Inns did.

    High end foodie places and fast food places seem to be prospering, as well as independent restaurants with more niche menus.
    That's true. Who wants to pay £30 per head plus drinks for a boil in the bag pub meal?
  • Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    There’s 2 new posh hotels and a number of restaurants opening in Newcastle recently and in the near future. Can’t be all bad
    Overall it seems pretty dire for the industry.
    There will always be exceptions.
    Plenty closing up here too. Only this week Hard Rock Cafe in Newcastle announced its closure.
    I think the current economic environment is particularly tough on such dated middle market chains.Hard Rock is dying out for the same reason places like Berni Inns did.

    High end foodie places and fast food places seem to be prospering, as well as independent restaurants with more niche menus.
    That's true. Who wants to pay £30 per head plus drinks for a boil in the bag pub meal?
    Indeed. Bought in food that microwaved.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,994

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    There’s 2 new posh hotels and a number of restaurants opening in Newcastle recently and in the near future. Can’t be all bad
    Overall it seems pretty dire for the industry.
    There will always be exceptions.
    Plenty closing up here too. Only this week Hard Rock Cafe in Newcastle announced its closure.
    I think the current economic environment is particularly tough on such dated middle market chains.Hard Rock is dying out for the same reason places like Berni Inns did.

    High end foodie places and fast food places seem to be prospering, as well as independent restaurants with more niche menus.
    That's true. Who wants to pay £30 per head plus drinks for a boil in the bag pub meal?
    Indeed. Bought in food that microwaved.
    I'm still missing my Jubilee Pancakes.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,030
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    There’s 2 new posh hotels and a number of restaurants opening in Newcastle recently and in the near future. Can’t be all bad
    Overall it seems pretty dire for the industry.
    There will always be exceptions.
    Plenty closing up here too. Only this week Hard Rock Cafe in Newcastle announced its closure.
    I think the current economic environment is particularly tough on such dated middle market chains. Hard Rock is dying out for the same reason places like Berni Inns did.

    High end foodie places and fast food places seem to be prospering, as well as independent restaurants with more niche menus.
    Yeah, I think you’re right. My wife and I were discussing this in the week when we dined at Peace and Loaf in Jesmond this week.

    High End and low end seems to do okay, mid range is squashed.

    Although there are exceptions to any rule this seems to be the trend.

    Didn’t the same happen to TGI Fridays too ? That was massively popular in the eighties and nineties and seems to have withered away.

    As for a Berni Inn, Mexican Pete’s favourite, The Plough, was a Berni Inn in the seventies. Main courses were Steak, Gammon, Plaice in breadcrumbs or Nut cutlets.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,231

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    Racism dressed up with fancy words.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,231

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    DavidL said:

    A depressing but entirely unsurprising poll for the opposition parties and the Tories in particular. Where is the narrative about how we start to get out of this mess, however slowly?

    We are borrowing £100bn a year. Reeves says she will not borrow for current consumption but is finding it increasingly difficult to make the numbers work for that. Expect more tax increases (hopefully not as economically damaging as those in October) and fudging around what is "investment".

    That massive stimulus to demand is not generating growth. It is not generating growth because too much of our consumption is spent on imports. We are bleeding nearly £50bn of demand to imports a year. Obviously we need imports. But we also need to produce as much as we consume.

    So, our priorities should be increasing investment, reducing consumption, increasing production and eliminating both the fiscal and trade deficits. Is this really this hard? Obviously the devil is in the details but what is needed is a narrative that both acknowledges the mess we are in and the long, painful journey we need to undertake to get out of it. Where is the shadow Chancellor?

    Trouble is, we don't want to consume less. Many people at the bottom can't realistically consume meaningfully less, and those at the top think that they deserve to consume more.

    (The finger pointing about why we don't need to get to net zero pretty urgently is another manifestation of roughly the same psychology.)

    So we get these silly fantasies that, as long as we stop this or that bit of spending that doesn't really seem to benefit us, everything will be fine.

    It's bigger than that, and probably has been since the Lawson years.
    Consuming less is precisely the opposite of what we need to country to do. As I’ve pointed out a few times we have historically low levels of private debt and a growing savings rate.

    Businesses aren’t spending money, and not are households. We’ve become a nation of misers, building up our own balance sheets at the expense of growth and investment. So government has ended up having to do our borrowing for us.

    We need to be encouraging everyone to spend spend spend. Eat out to help out. Do that kitchen extension. Refurbish that office. Build the new datacentre, or the solar plant. Buy that IT system.

    There are things government can do to stimulate this. Planning reform is one, but targeted incentives should be part of it too.
    Yes, but it needs to be consumption that stimulates our economy, rather than just sucks in imports or spent on foreign holidays.
    Although, if we could all consume less and not feel the need to have stuff for stuff's sake, we'd all probably be a lot happier.
    It's not all about "stuff" though. Taking the kids to Centre Parcs or Disneyworld. £400 for Glastonbury weekend.
    We equate spending money with being happy.
    That's just how it is for modern humans, but what has actually happened is that we have turned actual day to day survival into a pay to play game and an ever increasing number of people are finding it harder to participate.
    There's no way out of it. Wealth inequality will only get worse, even as the transnational corporations that control everything get richer and increase "growth".

    I'm about to go to a free exhibition on Japanese carpentry. Having fun without spending!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,603
    edited March 22

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    There’s 2 new posh hotels and a number of restaurants opening in Newcastle recently and in the near future. Can’t be all bad
    Overall it seems pretty dire for the industry.
    There will always be exceptions.
    Plenty closing up here too. Only this week Hard Rock Cafe in Newcastle announced its closure.
    I think the current economic environment is particularly tough on such dated middle market chains.Hard Rock is dying out for the same reason places like Berni Inns did.

    High end foodie places and fast food places seem to be prospering, as well as independent restaurants with more niche menus.
    That's true. Who wants to pay £30 per head plus drinks for a boil in the bag pub meal?
    I recently dined in this place, which seems to cater to most tastes.



    I went for the paneer curry pizza, but my fellow diners went for Israeli falafel, Hakka noodles,
    Vegan Aubergine parmigiano and lasagne. All were pretty good and all freshly cooked.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775
    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    We all know the economy and the public finances are in a mess and we also know this didn't start on July 5th last year. Whether or not you think Reeves has made things worse or much worse is up to you but she had a dreadful inheritance and you can argue that how you like.

    The central question remains as it has since the post-Covid inflationary boom - how do we get economic growth back? Yes, you can argue we lived off the ponzi scheme that was immigration-led growth for decades - in truth, we always have whether it's cheap labour from the fields, the Carribbean or Eastern Europe. Generating growth with a stagnant work force, an ageing population and all the demands of that ageing population is the conundrum which affects policy makers across most of the world.

    We have the inevitable "supply side" response - cut regulation (that's how you end up with raw sewage in the rivers because you can't enforce what regulation you do have), spending (apparently the state is bloated) and taxes (the peasants groaning under the burden of taxes yearning to be free).

    The "centre-left" has had no coherent economic policy since 2008 - the "centre right" trots out neo-Thatcherite platitudes which have been tried and failed. It may be technological innovation will be the next spur to economic growth - it's happened many times before.

    Until then, we stagnate with a growing ageing population and a declining work force like the hamster stuck on the wheel with the wheel going ever faster. On the one hand, there is clear under employment in some sectors yet vacancy levels in many other sectors are falling as economic activity alows further.

    I'll be blunt - I have no answers, no one does. All Governments can do is tinker at the edges and hope, pace Micawber, "something will turn up". The economic, social, cultural and political landscape was fundamentally altered by the pandemic, the responses to the pandemic and the post-pandemic euphoria and we are still adjusting to the new reality of the 2020s.

    Um, when? She wasn't perfect, but economic decline was reversed under Thatcher and the fruits of that under Major were 'the golden economic legacy'.

    Blair and Brown overspent, overregulated (except when they disastrously underregulated), and made a mess of the constitution and the economy. Cameron and Osborne did nothing to reverse either. Then you have May and Boris, two of the biggest taxers and spenders going.

    So when was this neo-Thatcherite failure of which you speak?
    It started under her - the selling of state assets to fund current spending; the increasing central control of local government; the abandonment of any coherent industrial policy; the obsession with housing as an investment, at the expense of actual construction; the privatisation of public service monopolies.

    As you fairly say, she turned around the economy - but at the same time embedded deep seated problems which successive governments failed to address.

    Today's problems simply aren't amenable to being solved by the policy mix she adopted.
    I am more sanguine about the sale of state assets than I once was. Although Thames Water reiterates the fact that I may be in error here. What was unforgiveable was the selling of British manufacturing and service assets to foreign owners, quite often for them to asset strip British industry and export British jobs.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,775
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    There’s 2 new posh hotels and a number of restaurants opening in Newcastle recently and in the near future. Can’t be all bad
    Overall it seems pretty dire for the industry.
    There will always be exceptions.
    Plenty closing up here too. Only this week Hard Rock Cafe in Newcastle announced its closure.
    I think the current economic environment is particularly tough on such dated middle market chains.Hard Rock is dying out for the same reason places like Berni Inns did.

    High end foodie places and fast food places seem to be prospering, as well as independent restaurants with more niche menus.
    That's true. Who wants to pay £30 per head plus drinks for a boil in the bag pub meal?
    I recently dined in this place, which seems to cater to most tastes.



    I went for the paneer curry pizza, but my fellow diners went for Israeli falafel, Hakka noodles,
    Vegan Aubergine parmigiano and lasagne. All were pretty good and all freshly cooked.
    That doesn't look like Beaumont Leys.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,570
    .

    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    What the reality of the so-called cuts to PIP really means. An increase of 26.67% over the life of this Parliament not an increase of a third.

    The govt have done the right thing trying to put a brake on this. They need to go further. Scrap the triple lock and radically scale back motability.

    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1903144427855487066?s=61

    How does a private motor finance company impact the public finances?

    Serious question. That has the feel of some vindictive people objecting to disabled people being able to use their Personal Independence Payment to make their lives easier.

    Is there a case to support such a move?

    Perhaps we need to start with not locking disabled people out of the best local parks.
    It’s not really a serious question given the framing.

    One in five new cars are motability and they go to people for all sorts of reasons. The scheme is expanding rapidly and needs to be looked at. For example the cars available on it. This is, ultimately, taxpayers money going to fund these cars.
    I don't see the point there. The rapid expansion is likely to be a one-off due to the market.

    What I am hearing there is inchoate outrage about disabled people spending a non-means-tested benefit on something that they find helps them most effectively.

    I see no rational basis for interference. Basically, it's nothing whatsoever to do with the likes of John Rentoul or any politicians - unless an abuse can be shown. BTW I can't find the tweet - is it genuine?

    If there are believed to be problems about who gets the benefit, then that's about who is eligible for the benefit, not about how it is spent. It is specifically intended as a modest contribution to helping disabled people adapt to their needs.

    I have my own issues with Motability, as you know, mainly around equivalent mobility aids being excluded from the scheme.

    But non-disabled commentators trying to control the lives of disabled people without a really strong case is as obscene as it sounds.

    I haven't seen any weigh in from stirrers or politicians, but to me it has the same whiff as for example the outrage Robert Jenrick was trying to generate when he claimed that disability being listed as a factor deserving a pre-sentencing report in a Court Case was an act of discrimination against white men. But Jenrick is a dog whistler, as we know.
    I would suggest that by 'radically scaling back motability' Rentoul means looking at eligibility first and foremost.

    Your response reminds me of the trans-activist response to women who are angry with cross-dressers exposing themselves in women's loos. A blanket refusal to contemplate that there are people abusing the system - if you identify as disabled, you are. You're entitled to your opinion, but it seems odd to me, because these people are calling into question the benefits that those who are genuinely disabled depend upon, just as the perverts indulging their kink have called into question (wrongly in my view) the right of post-op transsexuals to use women's loos. I would be furious with them, not furious with the people wondering why motability has become a part of Britain's economy that can be seen from space.
    You're spouting off on something you know nothing about as usual.

    There's a set of cirtieria, a rigorous assessment, an appeal process. People who apply either qualify or they don't. Most who apply don't qualify for the higher rate mobility component of PIP, which is what you need to join the Motability scheme.

    There are regular reviews, a process for reporting suspected fraud, an established investigation team, fraudulent claimants are made to pay back the money they've received and can be fined or imprisoned.

    Your comment that "if you identify as disabled, you are" is utter bullshit and very offensive.
    Criteria.
    That's your response? Unnecessarily pointing out an obvious typo.
    Yes,

    Any rule against it ?

    It’s something Luckyguy, who I always like to read, does quite a bit so I thought I’d do it. Save him the bother.
    No rule against it, no, but you might have a good argument to put (I was following the discussion) and this just makes it look like you are accepting defeat and going off on a an unrelated point, and a very weak one at that, because someone making as typo does not make their argument invalid at all.

    Yes @Luckyguy1983 does it a lot (so good of you to save him the trouble :smile: ), but it just looks weak as I said, plus we are not school children so it is a bit insulting.

    In addition @Luckyguy1983 has come a cropper at least a couple of times (I think on his favourite, licence) so when you correct someones spelling or grammar you can be setting yourself up to look a fool. I prefer to make myself look a fool by getting something relevant wrong.

    But regardless of all of that, it is just patronising.
    Whereas Ben’s response was full of needless digs and jibes at a quite reasonable post. You chose not to challenge that.
    I tend to correct it when people slip into Americanisms, which is something I find unwelcome. It's a bit like dispatching grey squirrels - a public duty. And yes, there are times when I get it wrong.

    I don't correct every typo or misplaced apostrophe - on the very odd occasion if I feel that someone has made a particularly pompous post full of pathos and thunderous rhetoric, but made a basic spelling or grammatical error, I might point it out for my own puerile amusement. What can I say, I am only flesh and blood.
    That's fair.
    All I can ask is you think the same of us when we take the piss in response.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,180
    MattW said:

    Roger said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    I see that Bernie and AOC are drawing big crowds on their smash the oligarchy tour.

    If there's ever another election in America, I can see AOC getting the Dem nomination. She seems to be getting Bernies endorsement.

    I am on at 45, I notice she is now 22.

    https://bsky.app/profile/aoc.bsky.social/post/3lkwlajfsbs24

    I am on her at 48. I think she is very impressive.
    She has also dropped her pronouns, which is a good sign.
    I had not heard about the latter. That might make what I say above more interesting if she is trying to shift positioning somewhat.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrBO6_am1P0

    FOX News short piece on AOC's pronouns.
    Fascinating for many reasons not least the Mormon outfit worn by the woman on camera right. There was a similar one on Newsnight but in pink with turn up cuffs and collar but in pink. Seems to be a developing Trumpite uniform.
    That's a really interesting comment, but I'm not sure if it is best defined as a "Mormon" outfit (except as characteristic of that community). I think it is older than that in derivation - you will find that type of feature (eg the cuffs, long skirt in a dark colour with showing no skin) in illustrations of immigrants to the USA back in the 17C and 18C.

    (I'd be interested to know what Reformed and perhaps black pentecostalists churches do - who can also have an emphasis on dress codes and strict behaviour.)

    The Mormons were founded in the 1830s, and the values around "modesty" were imo inherited and then preserved from earlier periods. *

    I think it is symbolic on Fox of both "America of our memory that we will rebuild" and "Christian modesty", which fits with the Fox News / Trumpist / MAGA Christian Nationalist theme. It has the same symbolic function as Muslim headscarves of various kinds.

    Here, for a different example, is a painting of " The Early Puritans of New England Going to Church" from 1867 of a 17C scene. Here it's both sexes, but the men with the ones adopted by Lisa Boothe on Fox, with collars and cuffs.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrims_Going_to_Church

    I think you'll find them in the UK in pictures of roundheads, or amongst civil war reenactors such as the Sealed Knot.

    * (Also interestingly were translation errors / cultural idioms in the King James Bible into the Book of Mormon, which translations in the mainstream have been corrected since.)
    I originally wrote 'orthodox Jewish' but thought it might need a little too much explanation and possibly be misinterpreted as something pejorative so I changed it to Mormon which most will know from 'Witness'.

    But thanks for the interesting post.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,570
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    There’s 2 new posh hotels and a number of restaurants opening in Newcastle recently and in the near future. Can’t be all bad
    Overall it seems pretty dire for the industry.
    There will always be exceptions.
    Plenty closing up here too. Only this week Hard Rock Cafe in Newcastle announced its closure.
    I think the current economic environment is particularly tough on such dated middle market chains.Hard Rock is dying out for the same reason places like Berni Inns did.

    High end foodie places and fast food places seem to be prospering, as well as independent restaurants with more niche menus.
    That's true. Who wants to pay £30 per head plus drinks for a boil in the bag pub meal?
    I recently dined in this place, which seems to cater to most tastes.



    I went for the paneer curry pizza, but my fellow diners went for Israeli falafel, Hakka noodles,
    Vegan Aubergine parmigiano and lasagne. All were pretty good and all freshly cooked.
    What, no sushi ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,603

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    I was talking to a matr of mine yesterday who is a recruiter in the hospitality industry, who confirmed this is the worst he has ever known the economy - worse than covid, worse than 08 - and he hasn't placed anyone for three months. In his view, in his sector, Rachel Reeves has been the worst thing to happen to the economy in his lifetime.

    There’s 2 new posh hotels and a number of restaurants opening in Newcastle recently and in the near future. Can’t be all bad
    Overall it seems pretty dire for the industry.
    There will always be exceptions.
    Plenty closing up here too. Only this week Hard Rock Cafe in Newcastle announced its closure.
    I think the current economic environment is particularly tough on such dated middle market chains.Hard Rock is dying out for the same reason places like Berni Inns did.

    High end foodie places and fast food places seem to be prospering, as well as independent restaurants with more niche menus.
    That's true. Who wants to pay £30 per head plus drinks for a boil in the bag pub meal?
    I recently dined in this place, which seems to cater to most tastes.



    I went for the paneer curry pizza, but my fellow diners went for Israeli falafel, Hakka noodles,
    Vegan Aubergine parmigiano and lasagne. All were pretty good and all freshly cooked.
    That doesn't look like Beaumont Leys.
    It was a bit further south.

    10 house points for the first correct guess.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,330
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    What the reality of the so-called cuts to PIP really means. An increase of 26.67% over the life of this Parliament not an increase of a third.

    The govt have done the right thing trying to put a brake on this. They need to go further. Scrap the triple lock and radically scale back motability.

    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1903144427855487066?s=61

    How does a private motor finance company impact the public finances?

    Serious question. That has the feel of some vindictive people objecting to disabled people being able to use their Personal Independence Payment to make their lives easier.

    Is there a case to support such a move?

    Perhaps we need to start with not locking disabled people out of the best local parks.
    It’s not really a serious question given the framing.

    One in five new cars are motability and they go to people for all sorts of reasons. The scheme is expanding rapidly and needs to be looked at. For example the cars available on it. This is, ultimately, taxpayers money going to fund these cars.
    I don't see the point there. The rapid expansion is likely to be a one-off due to the market.

    What I am hearing there is inchoate outrage about disabled people spending a non-means-tested benefit on something that they find helps them most effectively.

    I see no rational basis for interference. Basically, it's nothing whatsoever to do with the likes of John Rentoul or any politicians - unless an abuse can be shown. BTW I can't find the tweet - is it genuine?

    If there are believed to be problems about who gets the benefit, then that's about who is eligible for the benefit, not about how it is spent. It is specifically intended as a modest contribution to helping disabled people adapt to their needs.

    I have my own issues with Motability, as you know, mainly around equivalent mobility aids being excluded from the scheme.

    But non-disabled commentators trying to control the lives of disabled people without a really strong case is as obscene as it sounds.

    I haven't seen any weigh in from stirrers or politicians, but to me it has the same whiff as for example the outrage Robert Jenrick was trying to generate when he claimed that disability being listed as a factor deserving a pre-sentencing report in a Court Case was an act of discrimination against white men. But Jenrick is a dog whistler, as we know.
    I would suggest that by 'radically scaling back motability' Rentoul means looking at eligibility first and foremost.

    Your response reminds me of the trans-activist response to women who are angry with cross-dressers exposing themselves in women's loos. A blanket refusal to contemplate that there are people abusing the system - if you identify as disabled, you are. You're entitled to your opinion, but it seems odd to me, because these people are calling into question the benefits that those who are genuinely disabled depend upon, just as the perverts indulging their kink have called into question (wrongly in my view) the right of post-op transsexuals to use women's loos. I would be furious with them, not furious with the people wondering why motability has become a part of Britain's economy that can be seen from space.
    You're spouting off on something you know nothing about as usual.

    There's a set of cirtieria, a rigorous assessment, an appeal process. People who apply either qualify or they don't. Most who apply don't qualify for the higher rate mobility component of PIP, which is what you need to join the Motability scheme.

    There are regular reviews, a process for reporting suspected fraud, an established investigation team, fraudulent claimants are made to pay back the money they've received and can be fined or imprisoned.

    Your comment that "if you identify as disabled, you are" is utter bullshit and very offensive.
    Criteria.
    That's your response? Unnecessarily pointing out an obvious typo.
    Yes,

    Any rule against it ?

    It’s something Luckyguy, who I always like to read, does quite a bit so I thought I’d do it. Save him the bother.
    No rule against it, no, but you might have a good argument to put (I was following the discussion) and this just makes it look like you are accepting defeat and going off on a an unrelated point, and a very weak one at that, because someone making as typo does not make their argument invalid at all.

    Yes @Luckyguy1983 does it a lot (so good of you to save him the trouble :smile: ), but it just looks weak as I said, plus we are not school children so it is a bit insulting.

    In addition @Luckyguy1983 has come a cropper at least a couple of times (I think on his favourite, licence) so when you correct someones spelling or grammar you can be setting yourself up to look a fool. I prefer to make myself look a fool by getting something relevant wrong.

    But regardless of all of that, it is just patronising.
    Whereas Ben’s response was full of needless digs and jibes at a quite reasonable post. You chose not to challenge that.
    I tend to correct it when people slip into Americanisms, which is something I find unwelcome. It's a bit like dispatching grey squirrels - a public duty. And yes, there are times when I get it wrong.

    I don't correct every typo or misplaced apostrophe - on the very odd occasion if I feel that someone has made a particularly pompous post full of pathos and thunderous rhetoric, but made a basic spelling or grammatical error, I might point it out for my own puerile amusement. What can I say, I am only flesh and blood.
    That's fair.
    All I can ask is you think the same of us when we take the piss in response.
    I like being corrected on PB. It's part of the value of the site.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,570

    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    We all know the economy and the public finances are in a mess and we also know this didn't start on July 5th last year. Whether or not you think Reeves has made things worse or much worse is up to you but she had a dreadful inheritance and you can argue that how you like.

    The central question remains as it has since the post-Covid inflationary boom - how do we get economic growth back? Yes, you can argue we lived off the ponzi scheme that was immigration-led growth for decades - in truth, we always have whether it's cheap labour from the fields, the Carribbean or Eastern Europe. Generating growth with a stagnant work force, an ageing population and all the demands of that ageing population is the conundrum which affects policy makers across most of the world.

    We have the inevitable "supply side" response - cut regulation (that's how you end up with raw sewage in the rivers because you can't enforce what regulation you do have), spending (apparently the state is bloated) and taxes (the peasants groaning under the burden of taxes yearning to be free).

    The "centre-left" has had no coherent economic policy since 2008 - the "centre right" trots out neo-Thatcherite platitudes which have been tried and failed. It may be technological innovation will be the next spur to economic growth - it's happened many times before.

    Until then, we stagnate with a growing ageing population and a declining work force like the hamster stuck on the wheel with the wheel going ever faster. On the one hand, there is clear under employment in some sectors yet vacancy levels in many other sectors are falling as economic activity alows further.

    I'll be blunt - I have no answers, no one does. All Governments can do is tinker at the edges and hope, pace Micawber, "something will turn up". The economic, social, cultural and political landscape was fundamentally altered by the pandemic, the responses to the pandemic and the post-pandemic euphoria and we are still adjusting to the new reality of the 2020s.

    Um, when? She wasn't perfect, but economic decline was reversed under Thatcher and the fruits of that under Major were 'the golden economic legacy'.

    Blair and Brown overspent, overregulated (except when they disastrously underregulated), and made a mess of the constitution and the economy. Cameron and Osborne did nothing to reverse either. Then you have May and Boris, two of the biggest taxers and spenders going.

    So when was this neo-Thatcherite failure of which you speak?
    It started under her - the selling of state assets to fund current spending; the increasing central control of local government; the abandonment of any coherent industrial policy; the obsession with housing as an investment, at the expense of actual construction; the privatisation of public service monopolies.

    As you fairly say, she turned around the economy - but at the same time embedded deep seated problems which successive governments failed to address.

    Today's problems simply aren't amenable to being solved by the policy mix she adopted.
    I am more sanguine about the sale of state assets than I once was. Although Thames Water reiterates the fact that I may be in error here. What was unforgiveable was the selling of British manufacturing and service assets to foreign owners, quite often for them to asset strip British industry and export British jobs.
    We can argue the toss over a lot of what she did.
    Imagining it's a prescription for our current difficulties is, however, obviously delusional.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,856

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    Racism dressed up with fancy words.
    Jenrick emphasises the high levels of immigration over the past two and a half decades - for one and a half of which the Tories have been in power.

    Is it a sign he is planning to change his party? Or is he just stupid?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,330
    Chris said:

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    Racism dressed up with fancy words.
    Jenrick emphasises the high levels of immigration over the past two and a half decades - for one and a half of which the Tories have been in power.

    Is it a sign he is planning to change his party? Or is he just stupid?
    Jenrick resigned from the Cabinet in protest at the weakness of the key immigration policy, so I think he has established a modicum of credibility on this issue.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,329
    Chris said:

    Anyone seen this from Jenrick. Used to be only the bnp saying this.

    was brought up in the Black Country by parents who possessed a deep English working-class patriotism.

    That sense of national togetherness is now being torn to shreds as unprecedented levels of mass migration transform parts of our country beyond recognition.

    The disorienting rate of change is rarely discussed by our media elite, so the numbers bear repeating. According to ONS census data, in central Bradford 50 per cent of people were born outside of the UK. In central Luton 46 per cent of all residents arrived in the past decade. Between 2001 and 2021 the proportion of the white British population in Dagenham fell by 51 per cent; in Slough by 35 per cent; and in Peterborough by 27 per cent. There is no historical precedent – or democratic mandate – for this.

    Contrary to popular myth, the UK’s demographics have remained remarkably stable for most of our island story. Yes, we have experienced waves of migration, for instance the Huguenots in the late 17th century, but we are not, like our American friends, a nation of immigrants. Stability has served us well. It enabled a high-trust, cohesive society with a unifying national identity.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1903138449491656916

    Racism dressed up with fancy words.
    Jenrick emphasises the high levels of immigration over the past two and a half decades - for one and a half of which the Tories have been in power.

    Is it a sign he is planning to change his party? Or is he just stupid?
    Where is Black Country whereof he writes. I realise he was born in Wolverhampton but according to Wikipedia he spent much of his youth in Ludlow and district.
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